Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / JORAN VAN DER SLOOT GET THE H*LL OUT OF U.S.! | The Latest On Natalee Holloway

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JORAN VAN DER SLOOT GET THE H*LL OUT OF U.S.! | The Latest On Natalee Holloway · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
0:14
Speaker 2: Is he finally gone? Can I quit paying for three
0:20
Speaker 2: hots and a cot for confessed double killer Yourn van
0:24
Speaker 2: der Sloot. Has he finally left us soil? Is he
0:30
Speaker 2: where he's supposed to be, behind bars under a jail
0:35
Speaker 2: in Peru. I'm not gonna believe it until I see
0:40
Speaker 2: a certified photo of him behind bars, because this guy
0:45
Speaker 2: has skated free so many times. Two women dead at
0:49
Speaker 2: his hands that we know of, but we now learn
0:55
Speaker 2: authorities in Aruba seek the US file on the extra
1:00
Speaker 2: of Natalie Holloway's mother to the team of a quarter
1:03
Speaker 2: million dollars. Why do they want the file? Do they
1:07
Speaker 2: want your Vandersloot's confession that he and he alone murdered
1:13
Speaker 2: American beauty teen girl honor student Natalie Holloway there in
1:19
Speaker 2: Aruba on her high school senior trip. Do they want
1:22
Speaker 2: that confession? If so, why is there any chance Aruba
1:26
Speaker 2: will mount a murder prosecution? This was so many other
1:30
Speaker 2: questions swirling. I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:34
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
1:38
Speaker 2: and on Serious XM one eleven. Why Why am I
1:43
Speaker 2: so glad he hopefully has finally left us soil because
1:49
Speaker 2: of this. Hey, don't you don't have to trust me.
1:52
Speaker 2: Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Listen.
1:55
Speaker 3: Plus, she she has to go back to her hotel,
1:58
Speaker 3: But I was just trying to get Trump off a
2:00
Speaker 3: little bit further away from her hotel so we could
2:04
Speaker 3: walk back to her hotel and I might still get
2:06
Speaker 3: a chance to be with her. Okay, that's what I
2:10
Speaker 3: was hoping for. Okay, So what happens, Yeah, b Puck
2:16
Speaker 3: drops me off at a place a little right of
2:19
Speaker 3: the Marriott Hotel known as the Fisherman's Huts.
2:24
Speaker 2: I wanted a chance to be with her. Okay, that's
2:29
Speaker 2: a load of let me see technical legal term bs.
2:34
Speaker 2: He wanted a chance in the darkened night to rape
2:40
Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway. Many people believe she had been slipped a
2:45
Speaker 2: roofie GHB gamma hydroxy buterrate and a drink, because Natalie
2:49
Speaker 2: Holloway would never have left that bar, Carlos and Charlie's
2:53
Speaker 2: without her friends that she went there with. But she
2:57
Speaker 2: did that night. Why After a couple of drinks, she
3:01
Speaker 2: was completely out of it and he wanted her alone
3:06
Speaker 2: with me. An all star panel to make sense of
3:08
Speaker 2: what we know right now? Is he finally gone? Are
3:11
Speaker 2: we rid of him with me? Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert
3:16
Speaker 2: who traveled with me to Aru but with Natalie's mother
3:21
Speaker 2: looking for more clues, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
3:25
Speaker 2: star of a hitting new series Zone seven podcast, Cheryl McCollum.
3:28
Speaker 2: He wanted to get her alone to rape her. That's
3:31
Speaker 2: what he wanted. Didn't want to be with her and
3:33
Speaker 2: find out her life story and her secret fears and
3:36
Speaker 2: thoughts and feelings. He wanted to have sex with her.
3:40
Speaker 4: He admitted to touching her, to feeling her up, to
3:43
Speaker 4: getting her into a secluded play here are you.
3:46
Speaker 2: Even saying that that was the molestation? She was out
3:50
Speaker 2: of it.
3:51
Speaker 4: It's a sectional assault. There's no question feel her up.
3:54
Speaker 2: Who even says that anymore?
3:56
Speaker 1: He did?
3:56
Speaker 2: I'm quoting him now you're quote and you're on Vanderschlute. Okay,
4:00
Speaker 2: Cyril's authority. Your man wanted to.
4:02
Speaker 5: Have sex with her. He wanted to kill her. Sex
4:05
Speaker 5: is just they wanted.
4:06
Speaker 2: To have sex with her and it didn't work the
4:08
Speaker 2: way he wanted to, and then he killed her. You're
4:10
Speaker 2: hearing doctor Bethney Marshall.
4:11
Speaker 5: What is sex?
4:12
Speaker 2: With an instrument of power, A great listen.
4:18
Speaker 3: This place. It's not so far from you know. The
4:22
Speaker 3: next hotel is the Marriott in the next hotel after
4:24
Speaker 3: that is another Marriott, which is a timeshare, and then
4:27
Speaker 3: it's the holiday in Well. We we walk along the.
4:34
Speaker 6: Beach, do deep hawk Alsati should get out?
4:39
Speaker 7: Come with what happens?
4:41
Speaker 3: The parking leave? They they leave, they go back to
4:48
Speaker 3: their home. I assume they go back to their home.
4:52
Speaker 3: They get in their car and they leave. I'm actually
4:57
Speaker 3: with I'm actually with with Natalie. Walking along the beach,
5:03
Speaker 3: I find the space before we get to the before
5:06
Speaker 3: we get to the Marriotte hotel.
5:09
Speaker 2: Where I lay her down there outside on the beach.
5:15
Speaker 2: Natalie's completely out of it, I think because she's been
5:18
Speaker 2: drugged and he quote lays her down. Gary Davison joining me,
5:24
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer out of Miami, partner of ds rui's
5:28
Speaker 2: international law firm and alliance. Gary, Why is it every
5:32
Speaker 2: time I have ever interviewed a defendant or gotten wet
5:35
Speaker 2: up on the stand, if the defense isn'tname is that's stupid?
5:38
Speaker 2: They always somehow minimize their involvement. I lay her on
5:43
Speaker 2: the ground, b s he knocked her down and raped her.
5:49
Speaker 2: That is not laying her gently on the sand.
5:52
Speaker 6: I always think of it as a self protection device
5:58
Speaker 6: that witnesses and especially perpetrators of crimes undertake because they're
6:05
Speaker 6: telling a story to an audience. And when you're telling
6:08
Speaker 6: a story to an audience, you always want to make
6:10
Speaker 6: yourself look good. It's just fundamental, and that's the reason
6:14
Speaker 6: they do it.
6:15
Speaker 2: I mean doctor Bethany Marshall, who was budding in earlier,
6:19
Speaker 2: but hey, done it myself, doctor Bethany Marshall, high profile
6:22
Speaker 2: psychoanalyst joining us out of La Dodgor Bethany. I mean,
6:26
Speaker 2: if you look at the video from Carlos and Charlie's
6:29
Speaker 2: she needed help walking. He had totally ruthied her, so
6:33
Speaker 2: there's no lying gently on the sand for a session
6:37
Speaker 2: of love making Bigs. He threw her down on the sand,
6:41
Speaker 2: and Rachel.
6:42
Speaker 5: Of course, this is a part of an offending pattern.
6:44
Speaker 5: He did this many, many, many times with all these
6:48
Speaker 5: students coming for their spring breaks. He was predating upon her,
6:51
Speaker 5: He roofed her. He knew exactly what he was doing.
6:55
Speaker 5: And when he said I laid her down, that's lingering passivity,
7:00
Speaker 5: that is covering up a crime. That's that's being I
7:04
Speaker 5: don't know, minimizing. That's the only way I can come
7:07
Speaker 5: up with. Because your prior guest was right. He's thinking
7:10
Speaker 5: about a defense and he lies all time, probably to
7:13
Speaker 5: his mother's who is friends to the girls he meets
7:16
Speaker 5: in the bar. So laying her down is just like
7:19
Speaker 5: the least of all the life.
7:20
Speaker 2: He tells, it's the beginning. You're absolutely right. The tip
7:23
Speaker 2: has a very very large iceberg.
7:25
Speaker 3: Listen this hand, and we start kissing each other. I start,
7:30
Speaker 3: I get her to kiss me again. We start kissing
7:32
Speaker 3: each other, and I start feeling her up again, and
7:36
Speaker 3: she tells me no, She tells me she doesn't want
7:39
Speaker 3: me to.
7:40
Speaker 2: Feel her up.
7:42
Speaker 3: I insist I keep feeling her up either.
7:44
Speaker 2: Way, even in her condition, ruthied, drugged, inebriated, she fights back.
7:54
Speaker 2: And don't you know, Cheryl McCollum, that if he is admitting,
8:01
Speaker 2: she need him in the crotch, and she fought back.
8:04
Speaker 2: There was a struggle, There was a war between the gods.
8:07
Speaker 2: As best of a defense as she could mount in
8:10
Speaker 2: her condition, she fought back. And he's admitting to this
8:14
Speaker 2: much about an inch, when we know there was a mile.
8:17
Speaker 4: And again I think it's really important that he's saying
8:20
Speaker 4: I felt hurt up. That doesn't sound consensual. I laid
8:24
Speaker 4: her down. She didn't lay down, he laid her down.
8:27
Speaker 4: So again, nothing he's even saying, trying to make him
8:31
Speaker 4: sound better, sounds consensual. And when you hear him even
8:35
Speaker 4: describe her underwear, and I think it's extremely important for
8:39
Speaker 4: people to remember when he first started this about we
8:43
Speaker 4: were kissing, I was touching her, I felt her up,
8:45
Speaker 4: and he describes the underwear down to the flowers embroidered
8:50
Speaker 4: on them. He is talking to her father, her stepfather,
8:54
Speaker 4: her mama, and several men from their church and community.
8:58
Speaker 4: And he was seven years old.
9:01
Speaker 2: Listen to more.
9:01
Speaker 3: You mean the crotch. Once she needs me in the crotch,
9:07
Speaker 3: I get up on the beach and I kick her
9:10
Speaker 3: extremely hard in the face. Yeah, she's laying down unconscious,
9:20
Speaker 3: possibly even even dead, but definitely unconscious. And I see
9:27
Speaker 3: right next to her, there's a there's a huge cinder
9:31
Speaker 3: block laying on the beach.
9:34
Speaker 6: And when you say cinder block, looking at the walls,
9:37
Speaker 6: this place isn't like those, the.
9:39
Speaker 3: Exact same cinder blocks. I see a huge cinder block
9:43
Speaker 3: laying on the on the beach. I take this and
9:48
Speaker 3: uh I smash her head in with it completely. YEA,
9:55
Speaker 3: her face basically, you know, collapses in. Even though it's dark,
10:00
Speaker 3: I can see her faces collapsed in.
10:06
Speaker 8: Uh.
10:06
Speaker 3: Afterwards, I don't exactly know uh what uh you know,
10:11
Speaker 3: I'm I'm scared. I don't know what to do. Uh
10:16
Speaker 3: and I M I decide to to take her and
10:21
Speaker 3: uh uh to put her into the ocean. So I
10:27
Speaker 3: grab her and I I have uh half pool and
10:31
Speaker 3: half walk with her into the ocean. I uh I
10:37
Speaker 3: push her off. Uh I walk up uh up to
10:40
Speaker 3: about my knees into the ocean, and i'd push her
10:43
Speaker 3: off into into the into the into see. And yeah,
10:55
Speaker 3: after that, I I get out.
10:57
Speaker 2: I walk home that yeah, and then gosh, what should
11:04
Speaker 2: I say next? So yeah, then I go home. That's
11:06
Speaker 2: a complete lie. If he had put her body at
11:09
Speaker 2: knee depth in the ocean, she would have washed right
11:12
Speaker 2: back up, So all of that is a lie. On
11:15
Speaker 2: earlier occasions, he states that his father helped him secure
11:19
Speaker 2: a boat and they went out into the ocean. End
11:21
Speaker 2: quote took care of it, that being her body. But
11:25
Speaker 2: let's jump into the here and the now is your
11:31
Speaker 2: Vanderslute finally out of our country. Take a listen to
11:35
Speaker 2: our cut a ourfends at crimeonline dot com.
11:38
Speaker 9: Your in vnder Slute is no longer on US soil.
11:41
Speaker 9: The thirty six year old Dutch national was released from
11:44
Speaker 9: the Shelby County jail Monday just after midnight, escorted by
11:48
Speaker 9: US Marshals to the Birmingham International Airport. The plane that
11:53
Speaker 9: was supposed to fly Vanderslute back to Peru experienced some
11:56
Speaker 9: type of mechanical issue and take off was delayed by
12:00
Speaker 9: twenty four hours. However, now the man who confessed to
12:03
Speaker 9: killing Alabama team Natalie Holloway in Aruba is officially back
12:08
Speaker 9: in custody of Peruvian officials to serve out the rest
12:11
Speaker 9: of his sentence for the murder of Stephanie Flores and
12:15
Speaker 9: his concurrent sentence from the US for extorting money from
12:18
Speaker 9: the Holloway family.
12:20
Speaker 2: Trying to extort a half a million dollars.
12:36
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
12:40
Speaker 2: To Herb Brand joining US a Senior Inspector, US Marshal Service,
12:44
Speaker 2: International Investigations, Chief Inspector, Department Justice, Office of International Affairs,
12:50
Speaker 2: best selling author which I believe are based on his
12:53
Speaker 2: travels around the world, apprehending felons, killers, drug lords, Solo Shock,
12:59
Speaker 2: Curse of the Blue Stone, and Flying Solo Top of
13:02
Speaker 2: the World on Amazon v Brandt. How long is the
13:06
Speaker 2: flight from the US from the Hugo Black Federal Courthouse
13:11
Speaker 2: where he pled guilty to kick extortion to Lima, Peru.
13:16
Speaker 10: Well, Nancy, it depends this was a charter flight of
13:20
Speaker 10: the United States Marshall Service charter to private jet, and
13:25
Speaker 10: they don't announce the flight paths for security reasons. But
13:31
Speaker 10: they're going to have to fly from Alabama to a
13:34
Speaker 10: point most likely Miami, refuel then fly from there to Lima, Peru.
13:42
Speaker 10: And total flight time you're looking at between twelve fourteen hours,
13:48
Speaker 10: but sometimes you have weather delays, you're delays and refueling
13:53
Speaker 10: things like that, so it could take up to a
13:57
Speaker 10: full day, maybe a day and a half from to.
14:00
Speaker 2: Finish a day and a half, So possibly, I'm trying
14:05
Speaker 2: to figure out. Carol Robinson, senior investigative reporter for al
14:10
Speaker 2: dot Com. Carol, thank you for being with us. Can
14:13
Speaker 2: we confirm he has touchdown in Peru?
14:16
Speaker 8: Yes, he touched down at five point fifty eight pm
14:20
Speaker 8: Eastern time. And I don't know what that is in Peru,
14:24
Speaker 8: but the United States Eastern time, five fifty eight pm
14:28
Speaker 8: on Tuesday, gotcha.
14:29
Speaker 2: He is in Peru where he is serving a twenty
14:31
Speaker 2: eight year sentence for the murder of another young lady.
14:35
Speaker 2: Same mo O meets srind A casino, lures her away,
14:39
Speaker 2: she ends up strangled and bludgeoned dead, and then the
14:44
Speaker 2: same callous treatment of her and Nalie's case, He's dumped
14:48
Speaker 2: her body in the ocean. According to him. In the
14:51
Speaker 2: case of Stephanie Tasciana Flores in Peru, he sat at
14:56
Speaker 2: the foot of her body and had his coffee and
14:58
Speaker 2: croissant and read the page while she's lying dead in
15:01
Speaker 2: the floor, her body not even cold. Twenty eight years
15:06
Speaker 2: on that. Plus he's using and dealing drugs behind bars.
15:11
Speaker 2: She got another sentence for that. That's where he's headed.
15:15
Speaker 2: It's about a twenty two I've been told our drive
15:21
Speaker 2: from the Lima Airport across the mountains to this Peruvian
15:25
Speaker 2: fortress of a jail. I want to talk about that
15:30
Speaker 2: flight or Brandt joining us. You said it was a
15:33
Speaker 2: charter flight. This guy gets a charter flight, of course,
15:37
Speaker 2: I don't want I'm sitting next to me on a plane.
15:39
Speaker 2: But explain what you mean by that.
15:41
Speaker 10: Well, a lot of prisoners can't be taken by commercial
15:45
Speaker 10: flights just for security reasons, and a lot of it
15:49
Speaker 10: depends on how high profile of the case that it.
15:53
Speaker 2: Is high profile or how dangerous.
15:56
Speaker 10: Is both It could be both. And the Martiall Service
16:01
Speaker 10: will doesn't own the planes. But what they do is
16:05
Speaker 10: they take bids from companies for these flights. And typically
16:12
Speaker 10: chartered flight is six thousand dollars a flight hour. I
16:17
Speaker 10: would imagine the total cost.
16:20
Speaker 2: Well, did you say six thousand per flight hour?
16:23
Speaker 10: That's correct. It doesn't go by the time that you
16:26
Speaker 10: have the jet. It goes by The cost is by
16:29
Speaker 10: how many hours the jet is in the air, and
16:33
Speaker 10: typically it's around six thousand dollars per flight hour.
16:37
Speaker 2: This guy's costing us a mintoul.
16:40
Speaker 10: It would probably cost this flight to Lima. I've done
16:44
Speaker 10: it before. I've done it to Peru, I've done it
16:46
Speaker 10: to Columbia, I've done it to different places in Europe.
16:50
Speaker 10: It's going to cost about between one hundred and one
16:52
Speaker 10: hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
16:54
Speaker 2: Okay, that's kind of a big chunk to swallow. But
16:58
Speaker 2: the alternative is what having him sitting beside your daughter
17:02
Speaker 2: on the plane correct in no way, no way.
17:07
Speaker 10: And if he makes a fuss or the trice to
17:11
Speaker 10: fight or anything like that, the pilot is in command
17:16
Speaker 10: of the plane. You want to allow him on the flight,
17:19
Speaker 10: and so you could end up being stuck. That's why
17:22
Speaker 10: they do a chartered flight where the only people on
17:25
Speaker 10: the plane are the flight crew, the United States Marshall Service,
17:29
Speaker 10: and the prisoner.
17:30
Speaker 2: So is he inside like a regular plane.
17:32
Speaker 10: It is like a regular plane, Nancy. It's just like
17:36
Speaker 10: any person who chartered a flight to be chartered a
17:38
Speaker 10: Gulf Stream, a private jet. It's configured in the same
17:43
Speaker 10: the same way all.
17:44
Speaker 2: The states saw the bathrooms. Can he go to the
17:47
Speaker 2: bathroom on the plane?
17:48
Speaker 10: He can? He can?
17:50
Speaker 2: Isn't that a risk? You're on Vandersloet walk around the
17:53
Speaker 2: plane when he's going to a life sentence in a
17:56
Speaker 2: Peruvian jail.
17:57
Speaker 10: As I said, the only people on the plane or
18:01
Speaker 10: the prisoner and the US marshals, and they're going to
18:06
Speaker 10: take him. He's going to be fully restrained at all times.
18:08
Speaker 10: He's going to be leg irons, waist chain cuffed to
18:12
Speaker 10: his waist. They would take him to the bathroom. They're
18:15
Speaker 10: not going to allow him to close the bathroom door.
18:17
Speaker 2: So you're saying triple restraints, arm, waist.
18:20
Speaker 10: Legs, that's that's correct. And whatever he's fed he said
18:24
Speaker 10: by the United States Marshals Service.
18:26
Speaker 2: Right, are you actually telling me he gets a meal
18:30
Speaker 2: on the plank? What beef? Your chicken? What?
18:33
Speaker 10: No? No, it's it's not like if you if you
18:37
Speaker 10: were chartering the jet or flying first class.
18:40
Speaker 2: Well, you're kidding you actually think they give you food
18:43
Speaker 2: on delta in first class anymore? Not from what I
18:46
Speaker 2: spotted from my spot in economy. They got crackers and chips,
18:50
Speaker 2: just like everybody else.
18:51
Speaker 10: But go ahead, right, he would have he would have
18:53
Speaker 10: gotten a meal that was brought over from the jail,
18:58
Speaker 10: whatever he would have had jail where we've been incarcerated.
19:03
Speaker 10: They're going to bring him a meal.
19:04
Speaker 2: You're making me feel a little bit better. So he
19:07
Speaker 2: gets to go to the bathroom, even though I consider
19:09
Speaker 2: that to be a danger, a serious danger on a plane,
19:13
Speaker 2: because he's finally heading back to a twenty eight year
19:17
Speaker 2: sentence plus eighteen for the drugs. This is maybe his
19:21
Speaker 2: last chance. Although you got that twenty two hour drive
19:26
Speaker 2: from Lima to the fortress of a prison across the country,
19:31
Speaker 2: over the mountains. That would be a good, a wonderful
19:34
Speaker 2: opportunity for him to try to escape. And from what
19:37
Speaker 2: we hear, he's in route right now from the airport
19:42
Speaker 2: to the prison. That would be a more likely, a
19:45
Speaker 2: more likely escape scenario in my mind, to jump out
19:48
Speaker 2: of a van, as opposed to what are you going
19:50
Speaker 2: to do once you overpower the air marshal jump out
19:53
Speaker 2: of the plane? No, not a good escape route. So
19:57
Speaker 2: he gets all the way there, and I assume he's
20:01
Speaker 2: shackled and that the air Marshals or the US Marshals
20:05
Speaker 2: are armed at all times.
20:06
Speaker 10: Well, Nancy, the marshals would be armed on the plane.
20:11
Speaker 10: They wouldn't. They're not going to escort him to the prison.
20:16
Speaker 10: They're only taking him to Lima. Then they'll turn them
20:18
Speaker 10: over to the police at Nationale and then they'll escort him.
20:22
Speaker 10: The marshals would would never get off the plane armed.
20:26
Speaker 10: If they had to leave the plane for any reason,
20:29
Speaker 10: they'd lock their weapons up on the plane.
20:31
Speaker 2: I don't trust the local police at all. They're the
20:34
Speaker 2: ones allowing him to have booze, drugs and conjugal visits
20:38
Speaker 2: behind bars. What else will they do while they're transporting
20:41
Speaker 2: him twenty two hours on a drive? Would they let
20:44
Speaker 2: him go? I don't know the answer to that, But
20:47
Speaker 2: you have taken these flights. What happens on the flight
20:50
Speaker 2: or brand, Well.
20:52
Speaker 10: It's pretty much like any other flight. Once you get
20:55
Speaker 10: the prisoner on the flight, and like you said, he's
20:58
Speaker 10: full leasures string you're going to put them in the seat.
21:00
Speaker 2: You're going to Is he shackled to the seat?
21:02
Speaker 10: No, he's shackled by leg irons. He's shackled by a
21:08
Speaker 10: waste chain where his hands are cuffed to his waist.
21:13
Speaker 10: Then he'd be strapped into the seat and there's going
21:16
Speaker 10: to be at least four deputy US marshals on the flight.
21:20
Speaker 10: He's not going to overpower for deputy US marshals while
21:25
Speaker 10: restrained by his waist and his life.
21:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, doctor Bethany Marshall. It's not like he's
21:31
Speaker 2: with a defenseless teen girl who he's just drugged with GHB.
21:35
Speaker 2: This time is for air marshals, US marshals, you know.
21:38
Speaker 5: And the thing that makes me laugh about that I
21:40
Speaker 5: think of the crime with Natalie Valloway. Of course that's
21:43
Speaker 5: nothing to laugh about, but sex and aggression get fused.
21:47
Speaker 5: They're one and the same. That that's part of the
21:49
Speaker 5: m of the crime. He's not going to get away
21:51
Speaker 5: with that on this plane, right this is the first time,
21:55
Speaker 5: well yeah, the first time. This guy could have come
21:57
Speaker 5: up with bullies bigger than him. Not that a US
22:00
Speaker 5: Air Force marshals are bulliefs, That's not what I'm saying,
22:03
Speaker 5: but people who are stronger, people who are more powerful.
22:06
Speaker 5: He has never experienced that in his life. It's like Murdoch.
22:10
Speaker 5: When Murdoch went to jail, no one had ever gone
22:13
Speaker 5: against him. So this is kind of a disorienting experience
22:17
Speaker 5: for soocio paths.
22:18
Speaker 11: They don't think that.
22:20
Speaker 5: The other person is more powerful, so they will try
22:23
Speaker 5: to fight them, and then they will realize that they
22:27
Speaker 5: have that they have met a greater folk.
22:29
Speaker 2: So right now we believe that you're on. Vander Slute
22:32
Speaker 2: is probably already in a transport van, which I certainly
22:35
Speaker 2: hope is heavily guarded and has all the safety features
22:41
Speaker 2: we have in the US. But what now, Carol Robinson,
22:47
Speaker 2: I understand that Aruba wants the US file, including your
22:53
Speaker 2: Vanderslut's confession. Correct.
22:55
Speaker 12: Yes, they told us that within you know a day
22:58
Speaker 12: of all of the confession being released and his guilty plead.
23:04
Speaker 12: We spoke with the prosecutor's office there said it would
23:07
Speaker 12: take some time to review it.
23:09
Speaker 2: Of course they haven't already had twenty years. Also with
23:13
Speaker 2: me right now two incredible guests. TJ. Ward is joining
23:19
Speaker 2: us from TJ. Ward and Associates. He is the private
23:22
Speaker 2: investigator that worked on the Natalie Holloway case. And Joseph
23:27
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, like Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert, Professor of forensics
23:31
Speaker 2: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
23:35
Speaker 2: and host of a hit series Body Bags. First to you, TJ.
23:40
Speaker 5: Ward.
23:41
Speaker 2: I have another problem, and that is I know that
23:46
Speaker 2: Yourn van der Sloot killed a sedated girl, a teen
23:50
Speaker 2: American girl in Aruba, and he has never been brought
23:54
Speaker 2: to justice for that murder. I know that he murdered
23:58
Speaker 2: Stephanie Tasciana Floydes. He has been brought to justice on that.
24:02
Speaker 2: He got a in my mind, a light sentence twenty
24:04
Speaker 2: eight years. I know that he island hopped and from
24:09
Speaker 2: Aruba and along the Netherland Antilles. You can go from
24:13
Speaker 2: one spot to the next very easily. But you and
24:18
Speaker 2: your team uncovered in the search for Natalie's remains crushed
24:25
Speaker 2: dog bones, and in those dog bones were crushed human remains.
24:33
Speaker 2: What was the gender of the human bones?
24:41
Speaker 13: They were a female that was later learned that it
24:47
Speaker 13: was not Natalie Holloways, but it was a female's bones.
24:50
Speaker 2: Of European descent. Female bones of European descent. Okay, who
24:57
Speaker 2: is she? Who is that? Do we have any idea
25:01
Speaker 2: who that woman is?
25:02
Speaker 13: We have no idea. When the bones were turned over
25:06
Speaker 13: to the Reuben authorities, they claim the Ruben authorities claim
25:11
Speaker 13: that the bones were all animal bones. The bones were
25:15
Speaker 13: turned over to Dave Holloway and I and we sent
25:18
Speaker 13: those bones to Washington, d C. To be tested, and
25:22
Speaker 13: we learned that one of the bones was human and
25:26
Speaker 13: it was a white. It was a female European, but
25:30
Speaker 13: it was not Ali Holloways. To this day we do
25:33
Speaker 13: not know whose bones they were, and Aruba is denying
25:37
Speaker 13: that there was a human bone within those remains.
25:41
Speaker 2: Is nobody worried that in some way your vander Slout
25:47
Speaker 2: is connected to a third set of human female remains.
25:56
Speaker 2: Okay to you or Brant, help me, help me? I mean,
26:01
Speaker 2: how easy is it for your Vanderslute to go from
26:05
Speaker 2: Aruba to the Netherland, Antilles to Dutch homeland? He hops
26:13
Speaker 2: from place to place with impunity. How many women are missing?
26:18
Speaker 2: How many women could be dead? And there remains here
26:21
Speaker 2: and we've never found Natalie's remains. Now we've got this
26:25
Speaker 2: third set of remains that is connected to they are
26:28
Speaker 2: connected to your Vanderslute. They've got Stephanie Tossi outa Florida's
26:32
Speaker 2: how many more are there? Or Brandt? What's the possibility?
26:35
Speaker 10: There's no way to tell, Nancy. It's like you said,
26:38
Speaker 10: he is a Dutch citizen. He can go from island
26:40
Speaker 10: to island island. There could be victims all across those islands.
26:45
Speaker 10: We have no way to know.
26:46
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, is nobody worried about this third set of
26:49
Speaker 2: amaze but me? And how many other victims could be
26:52
Speaker 2: out there?
26:53
Speaker 4: I think everybody's concerned. I know when we first started
26:56
Speaker 4: talking about the human bone mixed with a dog bone,
26:59
Speaker 4: we're like just stopped. Nobody went the extra mile to
27:03
Speaker 4: try to figure out who is this girl? Has anybody
27:06
Speaker 4: reported somebody else missing? It's also being ignored because we
27:10
Speaker 4: know what the Ruben authorities did with Natalie. If it
27:13
Speaker 4: had not been for Beth Holloway, we wouldn't be here today.
27:17
Speaker 2: To Joe Scott Morgan, help me out, Joe Scott, what
27:19
Speaker 2: if anything can be done?
27:20
Speaker 10: Now?
27:21
Speaker 2: It's like this woman doesn't even exist, just like Cheryl said,
27:26
Speaker 2: oh dog bones mixed with the human female? What human
27:30
Speaker 2: female bones remains crushed in with a dog remains And
27:36
Speaker 2: no one is investigating. No one's calling on a ruba
27:41
Speaker 2: calling them out going, No, this is female remains. Why
27:44
Speaker 2: aren't you doing anything?
27:46
Speaker 7: Here's the deal. They, by virtue of what we've heard,
27:50
Speaker 7: have already developed some kind of DNA profile. It would
27:53
Speaker 7: sound like. So here's the question. If you have this profile,
27:58
Speaker 7: which Fitz, we have one category female, We have European.
28:04
Speaker 7: Now you can delineate between they can between Western European
28:08
Speaker 7: and Eastern European and that's called phenotyping. Here's the thing.
28:15
Speaker 7: How many other people are missing on the island. Have
28:18
Speaker 7: they had track, you know, just a cursor research and it.
28:21
Speaker 2: Could be a tourist as well. So they might not
28:24
Speaker 2: even have a record of that person.
28:26
Speaker 7: If you go back, for example, this woman Robin Gardner
28:29
Speaker 7: who went missing back in I think twenty eleven on Aruba.
28:34
Speaker 7: You know, if you have profiles of individuals like that,
28:38
Speaker 7: you take the profile that you have, okay, that you
28:41
Speaker 7: actually possess from this questioned bone that was co mingled
28:44
Speaker 7: with these animal bones, and they have living relatives that
28:49
Speaker 7: are out there. You do a comparison between those living
28:52
Speaker 7: relatives and the sample that you do have to try
28:55
Speaker 7: to narrow the field down. And you know, as you
28:58
Speaker 7: well know, Nancy, you know the leaps and bounds that
29:02
Speaker 7: they're going to with, you know, forensic genealogy. At this point,
29:07
Speaker 7: it's advanced so much further now that I think that
29:10
Speaker 7: they could put a fine point. The question is this
29:14
Speaker 7: Aruba has shied away from anything that is going to
29:17
Speaker 7: give them even a bigger black eye. I don't know
29:20
Speaker 7: how much bigger it could get. But are they willing
29:24
Speaker 7: Are they willing to tear down those barriers and say, listen,
29:27
Speaker 7: we're going to put We're going to put families ahead
29:32
Speaker 7: of what our bottom dollar is here.
29:34
Speaker 2: Its not going to happen.
29:35
Speaker 7: No, I don't think it is. I really am.
29:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:38
Speaker 5: The fact that there are other victims actually ties into
29:41
Speaker 5: his confession the way Jordan Vanderslute did the confession. It's
29:46
Speaker 5: like an addict, a sex addict, reliving and retelling a
29:49
Speaker 5: story that he has lived in his mind many, many,
29:53
Speaker 5: many times in jail. When sex addicts come to my office,
29:57
Speaker 5: they tell about their exploits in a way that they're reliving,
30:01
Speaker 5: like they're getting aroused while they're telling the story. And
30:03
Speaker 5: I usually send them right back out of my office
30:05
Speaker 5: and say I can't treat them. But his confession was
30:08
Speaker 5: something he relieved I believe as a master pory fantasy
30:12
Speaker 5: in the jail. And what that tells me is this
30:15
Speaker 5: is not his first time at the rodeo. He did
30:17
Speaker 5: this many many times with women. If you think of
30:22
Speaker 5: him maybe first as a serial killer, secondly as a
30:25
Speaker 5: sex addict. Third is somebody who was so compulsive he
30:30
Speaker 5: was on the prowl all the time. There have to
30:32
Speaker 5: be other victims.
30:33
Speaker 11: There's no way.
30:48
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
30:56
Speaker 2: I want to follow up on what Joe Scott Morgan
30:59
Speaker 2: and doctor Anthony Marshaller is saying to IRV and Gary Davison.
31:03
Speaker 2: First with you, Gary Davison and TJ. Warp, please jump in,
31:06
Speaker 2: Gary Davidson, as you know, partner Diez lewis international law firm.
31:10
Speaker 2: Take a look at the map. Aruba is situated right
31:13
Speaker 2: there between Venezuela, Colombia Panama. You think they've got a
31:17
Speaker 2: cracked police force that even care about tourists. No, they're
31:21
Speaker 2: too busy with the drugs trade in Colombia. So you
31:24
Speaker 2: got Venezuela, Colombia, Panama, Kirosou bon Air, which is it's
31:29
Speaker 2: a puddle jumper from Barnair to Aruba, and Barnair is desolate.
31:34
Speaker 2: There is like goats. They're going to find a dead
31:38
Speaker 2: body there. No, it will decompose before anybody even knows
31:42
Speaker 2: it existed. Not too far from Puerto Rico, Dominican Cubas.
31:48
Speaker 2: That's a stretch. To the US, that's a stretch. But
31:51
Speaker 2: there are so many places he could have gone.
31:54
Speaker 14: Gary Davidson, Yes, and tracking that down could be difficult,
31:59
Speaker 14: particularly in connection with the Dutch Islands because as you.
32:04
Speaker 6: Know, that very often when you have a passport that
32:09
Speaker 6: allows you free reign in neighboring affiliated countries like uh
32:16
Speaker 6: would be the case with Bonair and put us out.
32:19
Speaker 4: He may have.
32:19
Speaker 6: Gotten in and gotten out without having to have a
32:23
Speaker 6: date stay, a stamp put on, or any record of
32:26
Speaker 6: his of his visits, so you're searching for a needle
32:31
Speaker 6: in a haystack. It's extraordinarily difficult. Without a concentrated effort
32:36
Speaker 6: to determine his whereabouts at various particular points in time,
32:41
Speaker 6: it would be almost impossible to trace this, especially given
32:45
Speaker 6: the amount of time that's transpired since since since the
32:50
Speaker 6: murder of Natalie Island A TJ.
32:52
Speaker 2: Ward with me private investigator that worked on the Natalie
32:56
Speaker 2: Holloway case from TJ. Ward and associates, TJ. When you
32:59
Speaker 2: first saw the bones crushed as they were specifically crushed
33:04
Speaker 2: so hopefully nobody could figure out that there were human
33:08
Speaker 2: female bones included, what did it look like? TJ?
33:13
Speaker 13: Well, what was surprising when there was First when the
33:16
Speaker 13: bones were first found, there was only three bones in there.
33:19
Speaker 13: And then when the bones got turned over to law enforcement,
33:22
Speaker 13: when Gabriel turned the bones over, when I called the
33:26
Speaker 13: chief of police, there were four bones and so we
33:30
Speaker 13: knew something wasn't right. And the Uruba authorities claimed after
33:34
Speaker 13: three weeks that they had the bones tested and they
33:38
Speaker 13: were animal bones. And I questioned them, I said, well,
33:41
Speaker 13: what kind of animal bones were they? Oh, they were
33:43
Speaker 13: just animal bones. Well, after the bones were turned over
33:47
Speaker 13: to me and we took had those bones tested in Washington,
33:51
Speaker 13: d C. They came back and said there was a
33:55
Speaker 13: human bone in the mix of all those bones, so
33:58
Speaker 13: we knew something was bad back wrong. The rub authorities
34:02
Speaker 13: did not test those bones.
34:04
Speaker 2: Why are they still dying with me? TJ. Ward, who
34:09
Speaker 2: was on the scene in Eruba saw these bones had
34:13
Speaker 2: he personally had them tested in DC and they are
34:16
Speaker 2: in fact human female bones mixed in with dog bones
34:21
Speaker 2: or brant If Aruba won't follow up, would never follow
34:25
Speaker 2: it up on Nali Hollway. I mean, Cheryl McCollum, you
34:27
Speaker 2: know what happened, best mother and I got detained by police,
34:31
Speaker 2: threatened with the rest. If they're going to do that
34:34
Speaker 2: to us, Cheryl, you really think they're going to follow
34:36
Speaker 2: up on this third murder victim.
34:39
Speaker 4: There's not a chance. But I say depending on where
34:41
Speaker 4: who has the bone? Now, let's get it to offer them,
34:45
Speaker 4: Let's go to ourselves.
34:47
Speaker 13: We have we still have possession of some of the bones.
34:51
Speaker 13: They are stored and put away in Washington, DC right
34:53
Speaker 13: now with the company that and the investigator that had
34:59
Speaker 13: the bones test for us. We still have copies of them.
35:02
Speaker 13: So we still have the bones so that.
35:04
Speaker 2: Could be tested for instance, at ath Ram Labs, who
35:07
Speaker 2: specializes in very difficult to analyze DNA data. I mean,
35:16
Speaker 2: they can identify DNA that's been underwater, that's old, that's
35:22
Speaker 2: been mixed with other DNA just like this, So it
35:26
Speaker 2: is possible. Or Brent, why is there no motivation for
35:30
Speaker 2: Aruba to do the right thing?
35:32
Speaker 10: Aruba doesn't want to open that can work. They don't
35:36
Speaker 10: want to look into this any further. They want this
35:39
Speaker 10: case to be over. They want people to quit talking
35:42
Speaker 10: about it. If they start investigating one case, that will
35:45
Speaker 10: lead just like everyone on your panel is saying, if
35:50
Speaker 10: you start investigating one case, it's going to open other
35:53
Speaker 10: cases that's been very soon. It's going to be all
35:56
Speaker 10: over the news of all these murder cases, of all
36:00
Speaker 10: these people disappearing. And that's the last thing in the
36:02
Speaker 10: world they want.
36:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious about what's going to happen to him
36:06
Speaker 2: in a room. But now, Cheryl McCollum was sitting with
36:09
Speaker 2: me in the courtroom when jord vandersleyt was sentenced by
36:12
Speaker 2: the judge and the Hego Black Federal Courthouse a little
36:15
Speaker 2: over a week ago. Cheryl McCollum I noticed the judge
36:18
Speaker 2: kept saying, if for any reason, you're released early in Peru.
36:22
Speaker 2: I did not like that. I mean, she was correct,
36:24
Speaker 2: of course, she's a brilliant judge. By the way, it
36:28
Speaker 2: made me think that she believes he could be released
36:31
Speaker 2: early in Peru.
36:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought she would get a beautiful job. And
36:35
Speaker 4: several times she was looking right at him and his
36:38
Speaker 4: attorney and she clarified, do you understand what I'm saying?
36:42
Speaker 4: Do both of you agree? Have both of you signed this?
36:45
Speaker 4: So I think she was making sure that he knew
36:48
Speaker 4: if you think you're going to go back there and
36:50
Speaker 4: come up with some you know, ogie dope to get
36:53
Speaker 4: out of here, some scam, some con, you're going to
36:56
Speaker 4: come right back here and see this whole thing through.
36:58
Speaker 2: But if they released him in Peru or Brent, how
37:01
Speaker 2: are we going to get him back here?
37:03
Speaker 10: The Office of International Affairs will work with the Peruvian government,
37:06
Speaker 10: and if he comes up for release, the US Marshal
37:09
Speaker 10: Service will go back down there and they'll bring him
37:12
Speaker 10: back to the United States so he can serve his
37:15
Speaker 10: twenty years in federal prison. If he is to your question,
37:20
Speaker 10: if he is released without Office of International Affairs being
37:25
Speaker 10: notified then it would become a fugitive investigation and he
37:31
Speaker 10: would be the Marshall Service would track him to whatever country.
37:35
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he'll get tracked. You know, we were talking
37:37
Speaker 2: about him puddle jumping between islands and countries. The wake
37:45
Speaker 2: of pain he's left behind him everywhere he goes is unimaginable.
37:50
Speaker 2: I want to circle back to the possibility, the remote
37:54
Speaker 2: possibility that Aruba asked for the US file, including his
37:58
Speaker 2: confession to murdering Natalie, so a prosecution can go forward.
38:03
Speaker 2: Gary Davison, It's so hard for me to believe that
38:06
Speaker 2: Ariba actually has a twelve year statute of limitations on murder.
38:11
Speaker 2: Is this true?
38:12
Speaker 10: Yes, they do.
38:13
Speaker 6: Have a uh that limitation. It's interesting under and and
38:20
Speaker 6: you know remember there their system is a civil law system,
38:24
Speaker 6: it's not a common law system. Uh So the view
38:30
Speaker 6: on these sorts of things is a little bit different
38:32
Speaker 6: in those sorts of jurisdictions. For example, uh the the
38:38
Speaker 6: Dutch don't have the death penalty. The most of any
38:42
Speaker 6: any any victim can expect, or a family of a
38:46
Speaker 6: victim can expect, is life imprisonment for someone who murders
38:50
Speaker 6: one of their family members.
38:52
Speaker 2: And Aruba is a Dutch territory.
38:55
Speaker 6: Correct, yes, yes, yes it is, and it's incorporated many
38:59
Speaker 6: of the the Dutch civil law approaches to its church pridence.
39:08
Speaker 6: Interestingly enough, the Dutch are very as you probably know
39:14
Speaker 6: from historical reference, the Dutch are very sensitive to particular
39:20
Speaker 6: issues like genocide, crimes against humanity and so forth, and
39:27
Speaker 6: their laws reflect that. And interestingly enough, the Dutch do
39:33
Speaker 6: not have estati of limitations for such crimes.
39:38
Speaker 2: Then, if it's a Dutch territory, why does the room
39:40
Speaker 2: have a twelve year statute?
39:41
Speaker 6: Well, remember that the crime against humanity in genocide are
39:48
Speaker 6: defined terms in international law, and they form what is
39:54
Speaker 6: considered to be a concept called us cogens and it's
40:00
Speaker 6: spelled jus space cog e n s, He's coach and
40:05
Speaker 6: another that concept in international law. Any violation of a
40:10
Speaker 6: use coach and standard can lead to imprisonment.
40:14
Speaker 2: Okay, I still don't know why ruby is a twelve
40:16
Speaker 2: year statute on murder, but a photo has just emerged.
40:20
Speaker 2: Orn Vandersloot, Nowie Holloway's killer, who confess an open court
40:24
Speaker 2: to killing Natalie being handed over to Peruvian police. He
40:30
Speaker 2: still is shackled at the waist, the hands the wrists
40:35
Speaker 2: and the legs triple shackle. He's wearing a bulletproof vest
40:41
Speaker 2: from Enterpol and he's smiling at the Peruvian authorities. The
40:47
Speaker 2: Peruvian authorities do not look amused at all. So as
40:52
Speaker 2: we go to air now he is en route to
40:57
Speaker 2: his Peruvian fortress jail. Everyone was claiming, Oh, he wants
41:04
Speaker 2: to stay in the US for the great treatment. No
41:06
Speaker 2: he doesn't, because in Peru he gets booze, drugs and
41:11
Speaker 2: unlimited conjugal visits behind bars, So he wants to go
41:14
Speaker 2: back to Peru. My only question is will he be
41:17
Speaker 2: released early and will we be ready? We wait as
41:23
Speaker 2: justice own faults. Goodbye Saint