Latest / Karl and Crew / The Battle for Heaven and Earth with Jerry Jenkins and Mark Yarbrough & Overcoming Worried with Dr. Winfred Neely

Transcript

The Battle for Heaven and Earth with Jerry Jenkins and Mark Yarbrough & Overcoming Worried with Dr. Winfred Neely · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S2: and you're forfeiting your soul, there's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S5: We got a big week here at Moody. I mean,
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  S5: a really big week. This is fantastic. I'm. I'm telling you,
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  S5: the lineup is amazing. And here's what's really cool. You
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  S5: do not have to be in downtown Chicago this week.
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  S5: You can be sitting in your kitchen. You can be
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  S5: walking down a path. You can take it all in.
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  S5: Give us the details here.
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  S6: At Founders Week officially kicks off Wednesday. That's tomorrow here
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  S6: on the campus of Moody Bible Institute. Keynote speakers this
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  S6: year doctor Tony Evans, doctor Brian Loritz, Doctor Crawford Loritz.
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  S6: Our own president, Doctor Rick Nelson is going to be
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  S6: speaking as well. Priscilla Shire is going to be the
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  S6: Wednesday evening keynote doctor. Michael Riedel is going to be
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  S6: speaking and doing a live, a live taping, uh, live, uh,
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  S6: open line live.
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  S5: Person, open.
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  S6: In person, open line. Yeah. Thank you for that. Music
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  S6: is going to be by Moody Chorale. Also free worship
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  S6: from right here in Chicago. They're going to be returning
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  S6: to lead us. So it's going to be just a
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  S6: fantastic lineup. And then also the Moody Radio open House
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  S6: new this year on Thursday and Friday, we're going to
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  S6: be bringing folks into our studios, even into part of
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  S6: the Carl and Crew morning show. So get.
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  S5: The full experience.
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  S6: Get the full experience. So all of the sessions are
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  S6: live streamed. The evening sessions are on radio as well,
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  S6: obviously in person for the the open house and the
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  S6: live taping, but would love to have you a part
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  S6: of it. However you can be. If you can get here, fantastic.
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  S6: If not, definitely check out the live stream because it
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  S6: is going to be a great, great week.
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  S5: Yeah, it's, it's going to be fantastic. Tech's founders to 805, five, five, 78,
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  S5: 98 and spread this link around. I am big on sharing.
• 2:41
  S5: It is huge. Don't keep it to yourself. Spread it around.
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  S5: Tech's founders to 805 557898. Ali is the emcee for
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  S5: the evening sessions. Guys.
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  S6: Yeah, I'm really excited about it. I got to do
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  S6: it last year and that was my first time. And
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  S6: it was just it's such a special week. It really is.
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  S6: I mean, obviously if you're a Moody alum, a lot
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  S6: of the alumni return and take part in the festivities.
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  S6: But really, it's a people drive from from different parts
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  S6: of the state to come and be a part of this.
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  S6: It is just such a it's not only the time
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  S6: of worship, but just the time of learning and getting
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  S6: to hear from the different speakers. So there's truly nothing
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  S6: like it. Oldest continuously running free Bible conference in the country.
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  S6: So do take part. If you can text founders to
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  S6: 805 five, five, 78, 98.
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  S5: What are you most looking forward to?
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  S6: I am, I'm really looking forward to Priscilla Shire. I knew.
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  S5: It. I should have just said it right.
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  S6: I, I am you know, she's I've not had the
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  S6: chance to to meet her, but I'm really looking forward
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  S6: to hearing her speak and to and to meeting her
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  S6: in the, in the green room and hopefully getting to
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  S6: chat with her a little bit. But she's a Bible
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  S6: teacher that I have long respected and learned from. So
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  S6: looking forward to her and then her dad, Doctor Tony Evans,
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  S6: that's going to be exciting as well.
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  S5: It's going to be a great week. Tech's founders to
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  S5: 805 5578, 98. It is the season. I'm not going
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  S5: to mention another one right now. But this is conference season.
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  S5: You know what I mean.
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  S6: Ali yeah the seasons are changing. It's a great time
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  S6: to go to a conference.
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  S5: It really is. And I want you to take some
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  S5: time to think about what of these sessions can you
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  S5: get to. And this link is going to get you
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  S5: all set up so that you're ready to rumble. Tech's
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  S5: founders to 805, five five, 7898. Founders 805 five, five, 78, 98.
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  S1: It's Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
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  S5: It's Carl and crew and helping you take your next
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  S5: step with Jesus. What is discipleship as we commonly know
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  S5: it in the church? What is it? It's just let's
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  S5: just talk about it here. What is it? What does
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  S5: it look like? How does it work? What is it?
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  S6: I mean, it often is a program, maybe a, a
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  S6: teaching program to help people along in their walk with Christ.
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  S6: I think that's what it looks like in most churches.
• 5:10
  S5: Yeah, I think I think it's a program. It could
• 5:13
  S5: be a course, it could be a book that you
• 5:15
  S5: go through. Could be a weekend kind of intensive, right? Yeah.
• 5:21
  S5: And it normally revolves around these are some things that
• 5:27
  S5: you need to know. Is that fair?
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  S6: Yeah. And I think for most churches, and I don't
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  S6: want to speak too broadly, but I don't know that
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  S6: the word discipleship gets used. I think that word often
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  S6: gets replaced by something that's more familiar to the church.
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  S6: So the church I go to, we have a becoming track.
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  S6: So it's a classes that you take kind of like
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  S6: like a new believers class and then discovering sort of
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  S6: where you're. Gifting. So I think for a lot of churches,
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  S6: there's a track that you kind. Of get put on
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  S6: that is a form of discipleship, but maybe not that
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  S6: word being used. Correct me if I'm wrong, if you're
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  S6: listening and go, no, no, no, my church uses the
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  S6: word discipleship all the time. Please tell me that. But
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  S6: I do think for a lot of churches, it becomes
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  S6: a systemized way within the church that people are kind
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  S6: of put into categories and groups to help you along
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  S6: in your walk.
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  S5: Yeah. And in knowing Pastor Toledo, where Ali goes to church,
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  S5: I mean, his heart is for discipleship.
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  S6: Absolutely.
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  S5: All the way.
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  S6: Absolutely. I just wonder if the word discipleship isn't as
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  S6: familiar with a lot of people for a lot of people.
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  S6: And so there's other words that get used that in
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  S6: its place.
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  S5: Yeah. The, and the reason discipleship or following Jesus is,
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  S5: is great terminology. However you reframe it, it's that intentionality
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  S5: used 269 times in the New Testament that when I
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  S5: put my feet on the rug, feet on the hardwood
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  S5: in the morning, I am imperfect. But everything I'm doing
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  S5: is intended to align my life with Jesus Christ, becoming
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  S5: disciples of Christ. We're apprentices. He's our leader. And my
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  S5: my conviction is that we've made it way more complex
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  S5: and kind of weighted it toward good information than we
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  S5: need to. I think it can be way more practical.
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  S5: In fact, I'm going to give it, give it away here.
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  S5: I know it can be. I actually am heading into
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  S5: a season with a group of guys, and I'm seeing
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  S5: lives changing immediately. Immediately, I made him a promise. When
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  S5: we launched into this just a couple of weeks ago.
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  S5: I said, I can promise you, if you apply the
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  S5: truths that we're going to be talking about and I'm
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  S5: going to be dishing up here in a in a
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  S5: tangible way into your life. If you initiate by the
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  S5: power of the Holy Spirit, you're going to see your
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  S5: life change, possibly more before Christmas than you've seen for
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  S5: some of these guys in 20, 30 years. So coming
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  S5: up here in a moment, I'm going to tell you
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  S5: where we are in week two with these guys. I'm
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  S5: not divulging anything that goes on in that group, but
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  S5: I'm going to give you the exercise that we've exercises
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  S5: we've covered in the first couple of weeks, and the
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  S5: fruit that's being borne out of it is absolutely dynamite.
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  S5: Hang on. Straight ahead.
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  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 8:26
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
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  S5: All right. Let me show you really practically how powerfully
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  S5: God can move and how easily your life can change.
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  S5: If we look at the word and just put it
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  S5: directly applied to our life. So I've been meeting with
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  S5: a group of guys and this is really a new
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  S5: experiment for me because I've tended to over the years.
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  S5: I've leaned toward confessions of an old pastor here. I've
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  S5: leaned toward, boy, let's get good information. I mean, boom, powerhouse,
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  S5: spirit filled truths into the lives of people. And that's good.
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  S5: We got to do that, right?
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  S6: Absolutely.
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  S5: But as I was thinking, I was considering what has
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  S5: changed me. How have how has my life been changed?
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  S5: And there's one key component that we talk a lot
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  S5: about around here. And that is not just hearing profound truth,
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  S5: but acting on it. Not just hearing it, but saying,
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  S5: I'm going to keep in step with this truth. So
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  S5: this is really fascinating. So week one, I sat down
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  S5: with these guys that I'm working with. I said, all right, man,
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  S5: the question I've got for you today is what is
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  S5: one thing that is standing in the way of everything
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  S5: that God wants to do in your life? Now, as
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  S5: we've seen here with the Morning Show, they were able
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  S5: to identify that pretty readily. Man, if I can get
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  S5: victory over this one thing, that's dynamite. So week two,
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  S5: I did something a little bit surprising, and I said,
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  S5: we're not going to go after that one thing. We're
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  S5: going to show the power of the Holy Spirit to
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  S5: change something in our life today, something significant. So I
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  S5: opened up to John 14, and here's what we find.
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  S5: We don't often mention this. We go to what the
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  S5: Holy Spirit is going to do. But look at what
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  S5: Jesus does here in verse 15. He says, if you
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  S5: love me, you will keep my commandments. Now if you're
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  S5: not careful, you look at that and you go, oh boy,
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  S5: here comes bootstrap Christianity 101. Right? Super D you can
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  S5: look at that and go, oh, no.
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  S4: Here he comes.
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  S5: Here he comes. You got it, you got it. Gotta
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  S5: do it. So that's true though, right? If you love me,
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  S5: you will keep my commandments. Yeah. And but then it
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  S5: goes on and I will ask the father and he
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  S5: will give you another helper. Okay? So the Holy Spirit
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  S5: is the helper. And then he goes on to say,
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  S5: I will not leave you as orphans. I will come
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  S5: to you. And they're freaked out at this time because
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  S5: they thought he was going to set up the kingdom.
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  S5: They're like, now you're going away. We put it, you know,
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  S5: we're all in behind you. And even Judas pipes up
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  S5: and he says, how are you going to manifest yourself
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  S5: to us and not to the world? And it's a
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  S5: great question. Judas obviously didn't get it. And he said
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  S5: these things. Jesus says in verse 25 of chapter 14,
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  S5: these things I have spoken to you while I'm still
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  S5: with you, but the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the
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  S5: father will send in my name, he will teach you
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  S5: all things and bring to your remembrance all that I
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  S5: have said to you. And it's all about remembering for
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  S5: the purpose of obeying. Now that's John 14, and that's
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  S5: just a little excerpt. But then you go into John 15,
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  S5: and what do we find? Proximity to Jesus is everything.
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  S5: I'm the vine. You're the branch. You abide in me.
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  S5: You will bear much fruit. It's to my father's glory
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  S5: that you bear much fruit. And then you go on
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  S5: to John 16 and you find more teaching on the
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  S5: Holy Spirit. But because I've said these things to you,
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  S5: sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth,
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  S5: it is to your advantage that I go away. For
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  S5: if I do not go away, the helper will not
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  S5: come to you. But if I go, I will send
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  S5: him to you, and he will convict the world regarding sin, righteousness,
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  S5: and judgment. Now here's, here's the power of this. Jesus
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  S5: knew good and well that for these guys to be
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  S5: fruit bearing, they needed to have an intention to obey
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  S5: the Word of God and the words of God. Right?
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  S5: And then they're wondering, how in the world are we
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  S5: going to do this? And isn't it ironic that Judas
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  S5: is the one that asks the question, how? What's the
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  S5: superpower you're going to give us to enable us to
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  S5: do this? That's just a fascinating little parenthetical thing there.
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  S5: Meaning lost. People can ask good questions. Yeah. So the
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  S5: answer was wrapped up in the power of the Holy Spirit. Now,
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  S5: some of you may think, oh my goodness, Karl's getting
• 13:22
  S5: kind of mystical. Nope. Here's what we have lost. We
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  S5: have lost the reality. And we've called it things like
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  S5: a hunch or I had a little prompting, or I'm
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  S5: feeling like when we begin to tune our hearts to
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  S5: the Miraculous reality that the Holy Spirit is here and
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  S5: speaking and reminding us of truth, not coming up with
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  S5: new poppycock or crazy revelation that isn't in the word,
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  S5: but reminding us of the Word of God and the
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  S5: teachings of Jesus. Boom. Everything changes. So it's interesting because I,
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  S5: I sat down with these men and I said, so
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  S5: after I'd gone on for a lot longer than this,
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  S5: probably 30 minutes, I built a case. And I also
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  S5: went to Romans eight, and I built a case that
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  S5: the Holy Spirit has the power to change our lives in.
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  S5: Jesus even said, it's an advantage over me because the
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  S5: Holy Spirit is going to work that powerfully in your life.
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  S5: So I built a case and I said, do you
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  S5: see that? Jesus said that you are going to hear
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  S5: the voice of the Holy Spirit guiding you into truth
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  S5: so that you can be enabled to obey commandments. Yes.
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  S5: And do you see that the obedience of what Jesus
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  S5: says is going to cause you to bear fruit in
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  S5: your life? Absolutely. I said, all right, I'm going to
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  S5: give a moment of silence here. And I went over
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  S5: to Ephesians five and I said, all right, let's look
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  S5: at three different kind of relational groups. Let's not look
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  S5: at that one thing that's holding you back. Let's just
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  S5: look at relationships, husbands, wives, employers, employees, fathers, daughters and sons.
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  S5: And I'm talking to men. So I'm kind of leaning
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  S5: on the husbands side, the fathers side. And most of
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  S5: them are pretty long in their careers. So they've got
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  S5: people under them in, in their org chart. And it
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  S5: was awesome. So I said, I'm going to give you
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  S5: some silence. No music playing, nothing. And I want you
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  S5: to think about loving your wife as Christ loved the church.
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  S5: And I want you to listen to the Spirit of God.
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  S5: And I want you to listen for sins of commission.
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  S5: Something that you did that was missing that mark and
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  S5: sins of omission, something you withheld from her. And think
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  S5: about all the years of marriage. And then we went
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  S5: through the other two kind of relational groupings as well.
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  S5: But let me tell you what was thrilling. It was thrilling.
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  S5: First off, to see these men hot pinning all the
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  S5: things that the Spirit of God was showing them. This
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  S5: is where I did something that I shouldn't have done.
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  S5: This is something that I've withheld that I should have given.
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  S5: These are things that I have missed the mark on
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  S5: loving my wife as Christ loved the church. And I said, men,
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  S5: we've got an application point today. This is week two
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  S5: of discipleship. Week two, week two. I said, I want you.
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  S5: To take 1 or 2 of these things and make
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  S5: an appointment today to sit down with your bride and
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  S5: confess I've missed the mark here, not explain it because
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  S5: men are famous for, you know, bringing a little context
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  S5: to why I miss the mark here. Honey, I want
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  S5: you to look at even patterns that you've adopted in
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  S5: your life. And these guys were gladly doing it, writing
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  S5: it down as the Holy Spirit was prompting them. And
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  S5: I want you to speak out. This is something that
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  S5: I've done, either a sin of commission or a sin
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  S5: of omission, and I'm asking for forgiveness and by the
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  S5: power of the Holy Spirit, I'm going to be a
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  S5: different man. Now, I've gotten a response back from one.
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  S5: We're meeting officially again Saturday morning. But I asked him,
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  S5: what do you think your wife is going to do?
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  S5: You know what they said to a man? Cry, sob.
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  S5: Tears galore. Why would a woman cry?
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  S6: Well, probably because that is so. That's the heart of
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  S6: every woman. I mean, that touches the heart of every woman.
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  S6: I mean, that kind of humility, Holy Spirit empowered humility
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  S6: that owns it. And that doesn't take responsibility in the
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  S6: sense of, okay, I got this. I'm going to do
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  S6: better next time, but acknowledges this is what the Holy
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  S6: Spirit is showing me. And by his help, I'm going
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  S6: to go a new way. That's powerful. That's powerful.
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  S5: One guy spoke up. Great guy. He said, you know what, girl?
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  S5: I have heard the Holy Spirit. I've known I should
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  S5: do this for a long time.
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  S6: Isn't it funny how when you just own it. That's
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  S6: true of. I mean, it's rare is the thing that
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  S6: we're like. I had no idea that this thing that
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  S6: I was doing was wrong. I mean, that's rare that
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  S6: we are just totally unaware it happens. But for the
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  S6: vast majority of the time, we're just kind of silencing
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  S6: that still small voice, that check that comes. Don't do that.
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  S6: Don't say that.
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  S5: Yeah. So I mean, this, this is so relevant because
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  S5: you can exercise this today. Boom. Crew husbands with wives,
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  S5: wives with husbands with kids. Uh, by the way, we
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  S5: touched on kids a little bit too. And I said,
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  S5: make a phone call if they're in person, sit them down.
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  S5: If you have somehow exacerbated your kids, you brought them
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  S5: to a point of frustration, but you never owned it.
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  S5: I want to tell you, you are about to set
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  S5: your kids free today. That was a heavy work assignment
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  S5: that day.
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  S6: Yeah.
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  S5: But let me let me tell you something. Boom crew.
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  S5: You've learned a lot of information over the years, but
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  S5: the thing that has made us weak and like we're
• 20:05
  S5: building a house on the sand is that application is
• 20:09
  S5: the game changer. According to John 141516 and Romans eight,
• 20:15
  S5: the way you bear fruit is obedience to what God
• 20:21
  S5: has told you, and the way God super powers you
• 20:25
  S5: to do that is that the Holy Spirit will be
• 20:28
  S5: like a laser beam on the issue that you need
• 20:31
  S5: to deal with. And this, this doesn't cover just three
• 20:36
  S5: relational areas. This. This covers secret addictions. This covers all. All,
• 20:40
  S5: all this stuff. But I think we've complicated discipleship. Discipleship
• 20:46
  S5: is as simple as hearing the Word of God, listening
• 20:50
  S5: to the voice of the spirit, convicting, comforting. And isn't
• 20:56
  S5: that great? The Holy Spirit comforts because Holy Spirit convicts.
• 20:59
  S5: And then the Holy Spirit comes right in behind and says,
• 21:01
  S5: you're doing the right thing. And I've had this happen
• 21:04
  S5: so many times personally. So can we walk with Jesus
• 21:11
  S5: more closely today? Yeah. By the power of the Holy Spirit.
• 21:16
  S5: Leave a little bit of room. You might be walking
• 21:18
  S5: into work today, and your attitude has stunk toward your boss.
• 21:22
  S5: And maybe the Spirit of God is saying, catch him
• 21:26
  S5: winning and cheer for it. Quit being a grumbler in
• 21:29
  S5: the break room. Maybe you go to some employees and
• 21:33
  S5: tell them you know what I. This. This would be
• 21:37
  S5: a powerful thing. You know what? You know that I'm
• 21:39
  S5: a Christian or I claim to be a Christ follower.
• 21:44
  S5: Let me tell you something. My attitude about our boss
• 21:47
  S5: around here has stunk. Please forgive me. That's not what
• 21:53
  S5: my scriptures tell me to do. And I've been robbing
• 21:55
  S5: myself of some great joy. Discipleship has to get this practical, Ali.
• 22:04
  S6: I mean, it's it's really that simple. And it is.
• 22:07
  S6: It's good to be reminded of that because so often
• 22:10
  S6: we are tempted to listen to another podcast, listen to
• 22:13
  S6: another radio show, grab another book, listen to another sermon.
• 22:17
  S6: And it's all great. But we when we just kind
• 22:20
  S6: of keep accumulating knowledge and miss the application piece, we're
• 22:24
  S6: not the better for it.
• 22:26
  S5: So well put. So let's be the better for it today.
• 22:31
  S5: Listen to what the Spirit of God is saying to you.
• 22:35
  S5: It's to God's glory that you bear much fruit. What
• 22:38
  S5: a great thing that you bless someone else with what
• 22:41
  S5: Jesus is doing in you.
• 22:44
  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 22:49
  S6: Well, depending on your life situation, certain types of news
• 22:53
  S6: stories are more likely than others, maybe to capture your attention.
• 22:58
  S6: Living in a big city like Chicago, I'm often grow
• 23:03
  S6: concerned when I hear stories of crime. Sometimes random things
• 23:08
  S6: that happen unprovoked. Uh. During the day, I see things
• 23:12
  S6: like that and I get a little a little concerned. Uh,
• 23:16
  S6: you hear of things like just another horrific school shooting
• 23:20
  S6: here just within the last week. And you have children
• 23:23
  S6: in your life who you love, whether their grandchildren or
• 23:26
  S6: your own children that you send off to school and
• 23:30
  S6: you hear stories like that and you think, Lord, why?
• 23:34
  S6: And if you're not careful, your heart can be gripped
• 23:37
  S6: with fear, with worry, with anxiety. Even as Christ followers,
• 23:41
  S6: we are certainly not immune to these feelings that come
• 23:43
  S6: upon us, particularly when we live in a world that
• 23:47
  S6: it feels like these things are happening with more frequency.
• 23:49
  S6: Doctor Winfred Neeley, you have been such a calming, wonderful
• 23:54
  S6: voice on this subject over the years, and I understand that,
• 23:57
  S6: as the Lord would have it, you just preached just
• 24:00
  S6: this past weekend on this very topic. Let's start with
• 24:04
  S6: the text. This is one that I many have committed
• 24:06
  S6: to memory, so much so that maybe some of it
• 24:09
  S6: has been lost because they can repeat it so readily.
• 24:13
  S6: Give us those verses that you preached on.
• 24:16
  S7: These verses, Philippians four six and seven and I'm reading
• 24:20
  S7: from the NASB. do not be anxious about anything, but
• 24:27
  S7: in everything, by prayer and pleading with thanksgiving, let your
• 24:32
  S7: requests be made known to God. And the peace of God,
• 24:38
  S7: which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your
• 24:42
  S7: minds in Christ Jesus. And this text was the basis
• 24:47
  S7: of the message that I gave at church in Avondale, Arizona.
• 24:52
  S7: It is also the text that is the basis of
• 24:56
  S7: my book, How to Overcome Worry. Experiencing the peace of
• 25:01
  S7: God in every situation. And I was going to deal
• 25:06
  S7: with another topic, but it was the the mass shooting
• 25:11
  S7: in Oregon on Thursday of last week, where a 16
• 25:18
  S7: year old boy shot his way into a school and
• 25:23
  S7: fatally shot three children, ages five, eight and 11, and
• 25:30
  S7: a 25 year old teacher. And I just sensed a
• 25:36
  S7: cloud of anxiety that just descending with force on those families,
• 25:43
  S7: those parents, those children in the country across the board,
• 25:47
  S7: because I do try to be sensitive to these larger
• 25:51
  S7: issues that we face. And so I thought that dealing
• 25:56
  S7: with how to overcome worry would be appropriate.
• 26:01
  S6: You know, and when we think about when when you
• 26:03
  S6: see something that's horrific and it touches home to so
• 26:06
  S6: many people, obviously the closer and proximity you are, the
• 26:09
  S6: more it hits. But for every person who who has
• 26:13
  S6: any sort of feeling at all, you think, how do
• 26:16
  S6: these things happen? There's so many conversations around it. But
• 26:20
  S6: at the heart of it, you have this fear, this
• 26:22
  S6: anxiety that for your child, for your grandchild, for your
• 26:26
  S6: niece or nephew, or for teachers who go into buildings
• 26:29
  S6: and now are, you know, have an anxiety even as
• 26:32
  S6: they're trying to teach wondering is, is my school next?
• 26:36
  S6: And it's hard for your mind not to go to
• 26:38
  S6: these places. And I know one thing that you have
• 26:41
  S6: done in your book, there's a difference between concern and worry.
• 26:45
  S6: It is right for us to be concerned when we
• 26:48
  S6: see these things. How do we keep the concern from
• 26:50
  S6: going to a place where it's worry, anxiety and it
• 26:53
  S6: starts to become unhealthy?
• 26:55
  S7: Well, I think there is a difference between concern and worry,
• 27:03
  S7: the imperative from our Heavenly Father. Uh, do not be
• 27:07
  S7: anxious about anything is not to call to indifference. Indifference
• 27:14
  S7: is very, very dangerous in some sense. may be worse
• 27:19
  S7: than anxiety. Indifference is I don't care. So what? And
• 27:24
  S7: God is calling us as followers of Christ to be concerned.
• 27:32
  S7: We're concerned about these things. You know, Paul says, I
• 27:35
  S7: have no one who will be genuinely concerned for your welfare.
• 27:41
  S7: So if there is any group of people on earth
• 27:47
  S7: that should be deeply concerned about mass shootings in schools,
• 27:55
  S7: those people should be the regenerate followers of the Lord
• 28:00
  S7: Jesus Christ. God calls us to be concerned. Uh, so
• 28:04
  S7: we're concerned about those things, but we do not slip
• 28:08
  S7: into sinful self reliance, thinking that we, in our own strength,
• 28:16
  S7: With our own wisdom can resolve issues like this and
• 28:21
  S7: take steps to do so. That's when we get into
• 28:24
  S7: worry and anxiety. And as I've noted before in Scripture,
• 28:28
  S7: anxiety is a form of practical atheism. We just assume that,
• 28:33
  S7: you know, God is nowhere in the picture and we
• 28:36
  S7: can deal with these issues in our own strength.
• 28:38
  S6: You know, I have been convicted as of late of
• 28:41
  S6: just my own tendency to immediately, when presented with crisis of,
• 28:46
  S6: of any kind, whether you know, from, from small to great,
• 28:50
  S6: how quickly I go into the mode of wanting to
• 28:53
  S6: try to figure out what to do, wanting to try
• 28:56
  S6: to come up with strategies and plans and how. Yeah,
• 29:00
  S6: that goes into a sinful self-reliance really quickly of thinking
• 29:03
  S6: that somehow some actions that I take or don't take
• 29:07
  S6: are going to prevent something, or that I'm going to
• 29:09
  S6: fix some situation and been wrestling with that lately. How
• 29:13
  S6: do we Really, truly trust God, especially in those areas
• 29:17
  S6: where we feel most vulnerable. I, I can't protect my kids.
• 29:22
  S6: I can't protect my loved ones. I can't protect my
• 29:25
  S6: community in the sense of stopping something from that could happen.
• 29:30
  S6: How do we live in that tension?
• 29:32
  S7: Well, intention it is indeed. I have ten grandchildren. One
• 29:40
  S7: of our granddaughters and her mother, my oldest daughter, were
• 29:45
  S7: with us last week. So how do I navigate that? Well,
• 29:50
  S7: I'm going to get involved in the school. What are
• 29:53
  S7: our safety measures? What do we have in place? What
• 30:00
  S7: mechanisms do we have in place to make sure that
• 30:05
  S7: our children are cared for and protected? I remember our pastor,
• 30:11
  S7: Charlie Date saying once and when he was growing up,
• 30:15
  S7: his mother would drop him off for school and she
• 30:17
  S7: would pray for him, you know, and extend her hands
• 30:20
  S7: to protect her boy because she realized that I've done
• 30:24
  S7: everything that I can do. It's up to other measures
• 30:27
  S7: that we have in place and pray that God will bless,
• 30:30
  S7: will bless our efforts. That's concern. And so the first
• 30:34
  S7: thing that we do then is, you know, it says,
• 30:37
  S7: do not be anxious for anything. It's a stunning statement.
• 30:42
  S6: Yeah.
• 30:42
  S7: One of the boldest statements in the Bible. There isn't
• 30:46
  S7: anything that happens in this life for which we are
• 30:49
  S7: to slip into sinful self reliance. Uh, and thinking that
• 30:53
  S7: we alone are responsible for handling life's problems. So we,
• 30:57
  S7: we stop that approach. And then the text says, but
• 31:03
  S7: and that, but believe it or not, is very, very
• 31:06
  S7: important because the Lord is not telling us that we
• 31:10
  S7: should not be concerned, that we should close our eyes,
• 31:12
  S7: that we should act as if everything is okay when
• 31:15
  S7: it is not. What he's doing is giving us a
• 31:19
  S7: strategy for handling these things in life. But in every thing,
• 31:28
  S7: my prayers have a conversation with God about it. In
• 31:32
  S7: prayer and supplication. I've expressed our need to God. Let
• 31:37
  S7: your requests be made known to God. And what dawned
• 31:39
  S7: on me was that request implied that we have thought
• 31:44
  S7: it through. We know what we need from God. And
• 31:47
  S7: here is the kicker. Ali, am I able to trust
• 31:51
  S7: God with that request or is this something I have
• 31:56
  S7: to get figured out? So it's fundamentally an issue of trust.
• 31:59
  S7: Let your requests be made known to God. And then
• 32:03
  S7: as an outcome of that, the peace of God, which
• 32:07
  S7: surpasses all understanding, will guard our hearts and minds in
• 32:10
  S7: Christ Jesus. And I said, what that means simply is
• 32:13
  S7: this is that the peace of God will keep you
• 32:15
  S7: from going crazy. Yeah. And we can't move forward. And
• 32:18
  S7: we find ourselves making desperate and very unwise decisions in
• 32:22
  S7: the process. That's basically it. We we stop worrying. We
• 32:28
  S7: talk to God about everything that's troubling us. Interestingly enough,
• 32:34
  S7: he already knows. He already knows. Yeah. Why do I
• 32:38
  S7: have to make my requests known to a God who
• 32:41
  S7: is omniscient, who knows all things completely, exhaustively, in an
• 32:46
  S7: instant from all eternity? Why do I have to do what?
• 32:50
  S7: Why is he asking me to do that? Because our
• 32:53
  S7: all knowing God wants our fellowship. He wants us to
• 33:00
  S7: trust him, and he delights when we do so. And
• 33:05
  S7: the outcome of that is his piece. And one of
• 33:10
  S7: the things that we begin to learn is that the
• 33:13
  S7: peace of God is not the peace of circumstances. This
• 33:19
  S7: is one of the great areas of testimony that the
• 33:23
  S7: church can offer to a world that's drowning in worry
• 33:28
  S7: and anxiety.
• 33:29
  S6: Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting how, um, one of
• 33:34
  S6: the things that's been sort of made fun of or
• 33:37
  S6: even been a source of anger is when after something
• 33:40
  S6: will happen and people will say, you know, you can
• 33:43
  S6: keep your thoughts and prayers, this idea of thoughts and
• 33:46
  S6: prayers as if prayer is something so insignificant and so
• 33:52
  S6: small that how dare we suggest that that is the response.
• 33:56
  S6: Surely there are things that we can be doing that
• 33:59
  S6: are more important, more active, more influential than something like prayer.
• 34:04
  S6: That's the attitude. That's often where that statement is uttered.
• 34:08
  S6: And it's interesting because if you don't know that prayer
• 34:11
  S6: actually does something, even if it doesn't change an outcome,
• 34:15
  S6: it certainly changes us. Speak to that a little bit,
• 34:18
  S6: because thoughts and prayers have become kind of a cliche
• 34:21
  S6: catchphrase that people just throw out there and so quickly dismiss.
• 34:26
  S7: Well, to be honest with you, I think that's because
• 34:31
  S7: the culture does not understand prayer.
• 34:37
  S6: Mhm.
• 34:39
  S7: The culture does not understand concern. I want to say,
• 34:46
  S7: with as much compassion as I can muster, that there
• 34:51
  S7: is a profound sense of indifference about these issues. You say,
• 34:56
  S7: how do you know? Because what practical concern do we
• 35:02
  S7: have for these kinds of ongoing problems in this country.
• 35:08
  S7: I'm not here for I'm not talking about politics. I'm
• 35:12
  S7: not talking about philosophies of this or that. What I'm
• 35:16
  S7: talking about is concern. So I'm on my knees in
• 35:21
  S7: the presence of God. I'm asking him, what do we
• 35:25
  S7: need from God? What do we need him to do? Well,
• 35:29
  S7: we need wisdom, Lord, about how we can assure the
• 35:36
  S7: protection of our children. Would you grant it to us
• 35:41
  S7: in the name of the Lord Jesus? We have a
• 35:44
  S7: gospel approach. We know that you have already won, so
• 35:49
  S7: we're not approaching this issue from the posture of the feet,
• 35:53
  S7: because Christ has already triumphed on the cross and through
• 35:57
  S7: his death and literal, bodily, glorious resurrection from among the dead.
• 36:02
  S7: So it's with this sense of courage and and victory
• 36:06
  S7: in Christ that we move into these larger arenas. Having
• 36:12
  S7: asked God for wisdom, having asked him for insight in
• 36:17
  S7: terms of how we do these things. And so, yeah,
• 36:20
  S7: I can understand a person saying, well, all y'all do
• 36:24
  S7: is pray and you don't do anything else. Well, they're
• 36:27
  S7: misunderstanding prayer. Prayer is very, very powerful. But Paul Bubner,
• 36:34
  S7: former president of the Christian and Missionary Alliance some years ago,
• 36:40
  S7: had kind of a phrase that resonated with me when
• 36:44
  S7: I was a young minister, and this is what he
• 36:46
  S7: would say. Prayer is the first work. It's not the
• 36:52
  S7: only work. Prayer is the first work. We are asking
• 36:58
  S7: God for help and grace and strength, you know, and then,
• 37:02
  S7: having insight from him, we start to expressing concern in
• 37:09
  S7: ways that are very, very practical. And these arenas. The
• 37:13
  S7: question is, when someone says that my question would be,
• 37:18
  S7: what is the church doing to express biblically based concern
• 37:27
  S7: about these matters? You know, James, he says, someone may
• 37:33
  S7: well say, you have faith and I have works. James says,
• 37:39
  S7: show me your faith without the works, and I will
• 37:45
  S7: show you my faith by my works. So we are
• 37:50
  S7: going in, in the name of Jesus, expressing our concern
• 37:56
  S7: and ideas to protect our kids, And strating to the
• 38:01
  S7: world and visible, concrete ways that we care and that
• 38:05
  S7: we are concerned, and that we have faith in the
• 38:08
  S7: Lord Jesus Christ. That may be one of the parallel
• 38:12
  S7: problems that's going along with this, is that we have
• 38:15
  S7: people who are deeply, deeply worried on one hand, and
• 38:18
  S7: others who are indifferent on the other hand, because we
• 38:22
  S7: are not taking any concrete steps to make sure that
• 38:27
  S7: a five year old, an eight year old and a
• 38:30
  S7: 11 year old who are all special needs kids, are
• 38:34
  S7: not being protected. There's something wrong with this picture.
• 38:37
  S6: Yeah. Doctor Winfred Nealy, such an important conversation. I want
• 38:41
  S6: to point you to a resource. He's got a book.
• 38:44
  S6: Moody publishers book. How to overcome worry. Experiencing the peace
• 38:48
  S6: of God in every situation. I want to point you
• 38:50
  S6: to that. If this is something that you or someone
• 38:53
  S6: that you love, that you have been and you've been
• 38:56
  S6: grappling with worry, sleepless nights, there's some some situation that
• 38:59
  S6: has you just wringing your hands. Just text the word
• 39:03
  S6: worry to 800 555, 7898. Just one word worry 805 557898.
• 39:11
  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
• 39:14
  S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
• 39:17
  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 39:21
  S5: I think all of us have had seasons where we're like,
• 39:24
  S5: oh God, bring a little heaven to earth here. We
• 39:27
  S5: look at the world that we live in and we think,
• 39:29
  S5: what in the world is happening here? And with the
• 39:34
  S5: advent of digital access to everything that's breaking, I mean,
• 39:37
  S5: there's no end to the bad news. We got a
• 39:42
  S5: couple of great guys with us here right now, conferred
• 39:45
  S5: a doctorate on one doctor, Jerry Jenkins. See how great
• 39:48
  S5: is that, Jerry, we get to get a doctorate conferred
• 39:51
  S5: on you today.
• 39:52
  S8: You know, Carl, my my son tells me if I
• 39:54
  S8: get one more honorary doctorate. I'm going to have to
• 39:57
  S8: start seeing patients.
• 40:01
  S5: Well, maybe I'm with you here today also. Doctor Mark
• 40:04
  S5: Yarbrough is with us. Uh let's go to Doctor Yarbrough.
• 40:09
  S5: What in the world is going on. Where did evil
• 40:11
  S5: come from. And what are we going to do about
• 40:13
  S5: this on earth my man.
• 40:15
  S9: Well as you know, um, there is an unseen realm,
• 40:19
  S9: isn't there, that, uh, Paul makes that very clear in
• 40:22
  S9: Ephesians chapter six that our battle is not against flesh
• 40:25
  S9: and blood. And, uh, so that's a, that's a, that's
• 40:28
  S9: a reality that we live with. And that is the
• 40:31
  S9: biblical framework that there is an evil one that wants
• 40:34
  S9: to destroy the works of God. But praise the Lord
• 40:39
  S9: that that's not going to happen. But we're still in
• 40:42
  S9: the battle until that final, final moment where it is all, uh,
• 40:46
  S9: done with. But that's a little bit about what we've
• 40:49
  S9: been talking about. Jerry and I. Doctor Doctor Jenkins.
• 40:52
  S5: Yeah.
• 40:53
  S9: That way.
• 40:54
  S6: Doctor Mark Yarbrough, a popular Bible Conference speaker, also president
• 40:58
  S6: of Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas, Texas, has teamed up
• 41:01
  S6: with Jerry Jenkins, best selling author best known for the
• 41:04
  S6: New York Times best selling Left Behind series. They've teamed
• 41:07
  S6: up for the latest book, The Battle for Heaven and earth. Jerry,
• 41:12
  S6: I'll start with you. This book follows your theme of
• 41:15
  S6: kind of taking these very, very true themes and stories
• 41:20
  S6: and putting a creative storytelling aspect to it. So give
• 41:24
  S6: us kind of the overview of this piece.
• 41:26
  S8: Well, this is really Doctor Yarborough's idea. And he brought
• 41:30
  S8: me in, I think first as a consultant. And, uh,
• 41:33
  S8: I was kind of hoping he would ask me to
• 41:35
  S8: come alongside and help him write it. So he did that.
• 41:38
  S8: I said, I thought you'd never ask. Um, but the
• 41:41
  S8: great thing about this is that it covers something that
• 41:45
  S8: I haven't seen covered before in fiction. I get a
• 41:47
  S8: lot of people wanting me to help them with their books,
• 41:50
  S8: but this really intrigued me because it starts in eternity
• 41:53
  S8: past and it starts with the rebellion of Satan in heaven.
• 41:57
  S8: So it basically covers the rebellion of Satan, the creation
• 42:02
  S8: of earth and mankind and the fall of man. And,
• 42:07
  S8: you know, we're doing basically what pastors do every Sunday.
• 42:10
  S8: They say, imagine yourself in this situation. Imagine you're with Jesus,
• 42:14
  S8: or you heard Jesus say this or do that. We
• 42:17
  S8: go way back. And, you know, I've written about the future,
• 42:20
  S8: the far distant future, and I've written, you know, like
• 42:23
  S8: with the chosen novels, the, you know, first century, but
• 42:26
  S8: now we're going way back in eternity past. So that's
• 42:28
  S8: what intrigued me about it.
• 42:30
  S5: You know, I love the fact that you're storytelling and
• 42:33
  S5: that fiction, although embedded in theological truth, grounded in that
• 42:38
  S5: can be so enlivening to the soul. Oh my goodness, Jerry,
• 42:44
  S5: I'm going to stick with you for a moment, Jerry.
• 42:46
  S5: Why is storytelling almost more gripping than in helping capture
• 42:54
  S5: the imagination of a person. You've seen God use that powerfully.
• 42:59
  S5: How does that work?
• 43:00
  S8: Yeah, it's been amazing to see it. And, you know,
• 43:04
  S8: if there's criticism, people say, well, why would you fictionalize
• 43:07
  S8: something that's biblical? Um, we believe that that Jesus parables
• 43:12
  S8: were fiction and he was telling truth with a capital. Yes.
• 43:15
  S8: So that's a pretty good example. If you, if you
• 43:17
  S8: need an example, um, we've, we've got Jesus. And, uh,
• 43:22
  S8: you know, somehow the scripture often only hints at at
• 43:27
  S8: the truth. It'll give us 2 or 3 verses about
• 43:30
  S8: some incident or some prayer or some action. And, uh,
• 43:34
  S8: you know, we just say, let's put some characters in
• 43:37
  S8: the way of that and make it plausible, make sure
• 43:39
  S8: it doesn't violate scripture. And then when we do get
• 43:42
  S8: to the scriptural account, we want to mirror that. Exactly.
• 43:45
  S8: And so it's great. Uh, for me, the best thing
• 43:49
  S8: about this is that it was Mark's idea. He gives
• 43:52
  S8: me that first draft. He's got the sequence, he knows
• 43:54
  S8: what he wants to say. And and I'm just trying
• 43:57
  S8: to put it in story form.
• 43:59
  S6: Mark Yarborough with us, a co-author of this book. What
• 44:02
  S6: does Scripture reveal about Lucifer's rebellion? We don't get a
• 44:06
  S6: lot in Scripture, but your. This book is tackling kind
• 44:09
  S6: of the origin of evil. Talk about that a little bit.
• 44:12
  S9: Yeah, I wish there was an exact chapter and verse
• 44:14
  S9: that gives us all the details. It doesn't, but it
• 44:16
  S9: certainly opens the door. Uh, and I think that curiosity
• 44:20
  S9: is one of those great tools that the Lord uses
• 44:22
  S9: to draw us in. Uh, you get a couple of passages.
• 44:25
  S9: Isaiah 14, Ezekiel chapter 28 that a lot of theologians
• 44:29
  S9: Biblicist think that that is giving a picture of the
• 44:32
  S9: fall of Satan. We know that the angels were already
• 44:36
  S9: present according to job chapter 38, uh, watching and marveling
• 44:40
  S9: at what God did. What we reference as Genesis chapter one.
• 44:45
  S9: So that's kind of what we put together. Uh, one
• 44:49
  S9: thing is for sure, by the time we get to
• 44:50
  S9: Genesis chapter three. Uh, the evil one is present and
• 44:55
  S9: is there to, uh, cast lies and to lead these
• 44:59
  S9: image bearers astray. So that's really what we're doing. We're taking, Carl,
• 45:03
  S9: as you said, that biblical thread, that anchored truth that
• 45:08
  S9: we do have and opening it up and saying, could
• 45:11
  S9: it have been like this?
• 45:14
  S5: Do you Jerry, back to you. Do you uncover pride?
• 45:19
  S5: And without giving away too much here. Do you believe
• 45:24
  S5: that the reader is going to be gripped even personally
• 45:29
  S5: at some of this storytelling? What's your take on that one, Jerry?
• 45:32
  S8: Yeah, that's, that's our wish. That's really why we're doing this. And, um,
• 45:37
  S8: you know, the reader always needs somebody to, to identify with. And, uh,
• 45:42
  S8: the biggest challenge to a novelist is from whose perspective
• 45:45
  S8: are you going to tell this story? Um, you on
• 45:48
  S8: one hand, you can't really tell it from God's perspective,
• 45:51
  S8: because in fiction you need a character arc and God
• 45:54
  S8: never changes. But one thing that was really kind of
• 45:57
  S8: surprising to me, I've always thought of angels as, you know,
• 46:00
  S8: our guardian angels. They're looking down, they're protecting us. And it's,
• 46:03
  S8: you know, and it's great. And they do. But clearly
• 46:07
  S8: they had a free will. Yes. Because Lucifer chose he
• 46:12
  S8: wanted to be God. He wanted all that worship and
• 46:16
  S8: adoration to come to him. And so when our characters
• 46:19
  S8: and we use Michael the Archangel and Gabriel and, and
• 46:22
  S8: an invented friend of theirs to they're talking with Lucifer
• 46:28
  S8: and they're saying things like we say to each other,
• 46:31
  S8: Isn't God good? Isn't this great? Isn't this wonderful? And
• 46:33
  S8: all of a sudden, Lucifer's responses are not as enthusiastic
• 46:37
  S8: as they used to be. And he's basically saying, well,
• 46:39
  S8: is he? Don't. Do we have to worship? Is he
• 46:42
  S8: so needy that we have to fall down at his feet?
• 46:46
  S8: And I think, you know, I found myself identifying with
• 46:51
  S8: Lucifer of all things because I've heard myself say, you know,
• 46:55
  S8: if I were God, I'd do it this way. Yeah.
• 46:57
  S8: And what is that but pride and saying, I have
• 47:00
  S8: a better idea than the God of the universe.
• 47:02
  S5: Profound.
• 47:02
  S6: Mhm. Certainly, we have seen a an uptick in the
• 47:07
  S6: interest in spiritual things we've seen on the big screen.
• 47:11
  S6: Some Bible stories have captured the imagination, certainly the chosen series.
• 47:16
  S6: How does this talk about the cultural moment that we're
• 47:19
  S6: in spiritually, where this book kind of lands?
• 47:22
  S9: Well, I tell you, um, we're thrilled about that. We're
• 47:25
  S9: seeing some wonderful reading trends. In particular, Gen Z is
• 47:29
  S9: really starting to read right now, and they're asking great questions.
• 47:33
  S9: They're fascinated with the world of the Bible. And I
• 47:37
  S9: think that's what we're seeing. We're seeing that people need
• 47:40
  S9: to understand that scripture is real. These were real moments,
• 47:43
  S9: real people, real situations, and that's where we can connect
• 47:48
  S9: and that's where we get in. Again, to the story
• 47:51
  S9: of God. And so as we're starting with the beginning of.
• 47:55
  S9: Casting this picture, which the Bible clearly gives, that there
• 47:59
  S9: really is an evil one that is intent on deceiving.
• 48:03
  S9: And where did that story come from? How do we
• 48:07
  S9: identify him? What was it like being in the Garden
• 48:11
  S9: of Eden when there was no sin? That was so
• 48:15
  S9: fun for us to imagine what that was like. And
• 48:18
  S9: I always say this when I'm teaching that part of
• 48:21
  S9: Scripture is that everybody knows that the Garden of Eden
• 48:25
  S9: was once real. And I know everybody's thinking, oh, wait
• 48:28
  S9: a minute, I got a bunch of friends or non-believers
• 48:31
  S9: that don't believe that, but let me cast it this way.
• 48:34
  S9: Every human being knows that the Garden of Eden was
• 48:36
  S9: once real, because every human being today is trying to
• 48:39
  S9: get back there to that perfect moment without pain in
• 48:43
  S9: our life. And so there are huge things that we
• 48:46
  S9: believe come out of this. And as Jerry said, when
• 48:48
  S9: you see it through the lens of Michael, they're asking
• 48:51
  S9: those same questions that we do about the sovereignty of God. God,
• 48:54
  S9: if you are good, why did you allow this to happen?
• 48:57
  S9: And so we're wrestling with those real human issues because again,
• 49:01
  S9: it's God's story. So that's what we're just walking people through.
• 49:05
  S5: You know, Jerry, you've done such a great job of
• 49:08
  S5: painting pictures, but I'm struck by and I haven't read
• 49:12
  S5: this yet, but I'm struck by, I'm sure you captured
• 49:15
  S5: this huge polar division between evil and holiness, not evil,
• 49:21
  S5: evil and good. I've got chills right now just thinking
• 49:25
  S5: about how you guys captured this. Again, without giving it away,
• 49:30
  S5: you must draw that distinction. And that must awaken the
• 49:34
  S5: soul to the reality of spiritual war. But the goodness
• 49:37
  S5: of God.
• 49:38
  S8: Yeah. That's the real challenge of this. And and again,
• 49:43
  S8: to call it a novel and to say it's fiction
• 49:46
  S8: because we invent some characters and we invent some dialogue.
• 49:49
  S8: We want that reader to identify and say, look, this
• 49:51
  S8: is what we deal with every day. We wonder, why
• 49:54
  S8: did God do do this? Why did he allow it?
• 49:57
  S8: These are the the questions of the ages. And, you know,
• 50:02
  S8: I found I was asking the same questions that Gabriel
• 50:05
  S8: and and Michael are asking God, saying, as Mark said,
• 50:10
  S8: if you're if you're God and you're good, did you
• 50:13
  S8: create evil? You know, you clearly allow it. And why
• 50:16
  S8: is that? So these are the things we want people
• 50:19
  S8: to take away that and say, you know, this is
• 50:22
  S8: what we have to deal with the difference between us
• 50:25
  S8: and God. We have so many friends that we try
• 50:28
  S8: to share our faith with. And they say, I don't
• 50:30
  S8: feel this need. I don't feel like I'm a sinner.
• 50:32
  S8: I hope my good outweighs my bad. They're so far
• 50:36
  S8: from the truth and and that's what we want them
• 50:39
  S8: to see in this fiction.
• 50:41
  S5: Mark, I'm going to come back to you. What are
• 50:44
  S5: what are some of the theological kind of obscure, more
• 50:48
  S5: obscure concepts that you believe that this work is going
• 50:51
  S5: to bring to light?
• 50:53
  S9: I think that it is going to get us to
• 50:55
  S9: marvel at creation all over again. And the, and the
• 50:58
  S9: creation debates. I'm just going to leave it at that. Um, uh,
• 51:03
  S9: I think that we miss the fact that God is
• 51:07
  S9: the Creator God. I mean, that really can be lost
• 51:10
  S9: in the creation debates. How ironic is that? And so
• 51:14
  S9: we marveled at that and describing it where, where God
• 51:18
  S9: speaks the word and everything comes into existence. Um, to
• 51:23
  S9: see the, the tenderness of perfect humanity of Adam and
• 51:28
  S9: Eve before sin. I think that we forget that they
• 51:34
  S9: were in many ways the perfect human beings. Right? And
• 51:38
  S9: so they are, they're talented. They're creators. They're musicians. They're artists.
• 51:43
  S9: They're poets. They sing. And you get to experience a
• 51:47
  S9: lot of that as they revel in who God is.
• 51:51
  S9: And so that was fun painting. When you get into
• 51:53
  S9: Genesis chapter three and you get into God's proclamation after
• 51:58
  S9: sin in Genesis 315, where he goes after Satan and says,
• 52:02
  S9: don't you forget, one is coming from the line of
• 52:05
  S9: woman that will crush your head. We forget these little
• 52:08
  S9: gospel nuggets that already show up in humanity's worst moment.
• 52:14
  S9: God was already at work. And so we we are
• 52:18
  S9: able to heighten that and really show it to the reader,
• 52:21
  S9: which we believe is in the biblical text. And then
• 52:24
  S9: there's a powerful moment in Genesis chapter three, verse 21,
• 52:27
  S9: and I don't want to spoil spoil it in the novel,
• 52:30
  S9: but in 321, after sin, the text just almost nonchalantly says,
• 52:37
  S9: And God made garments of skin to cover them. It's
• 52:42
  S9: a beautiful picture that was already foreshadowing the cross.
• 52:46
  S4: Wow.
• 52:47
  S6: You know, you think about where we are just the
• 52:50
  S6: month of October, and I don't know about your neighborhood,
• 52:52
  S6: but my neighborhood absolutely goes crazy for Halloween. So we, I,
• 52:56
  S6: so I drive around and I see skeletons and I
• 53:00
  S6: see just all of this dark imagery in front of
• 53:02
  S6: these beautiful manicured homes and lawns is just this gore.
• 53:06
  S6: And so certainly we are aware of evil and spiritual warfare,
• 53:11
  S6: but often it's glamorised and sensationalized. And we kind of
• 53:15
  S6: poke fun at this. A picture of a devil with
• 53:17
  S6: red horns. And it's, it's all sort of we laugh
• 53:21
  S6: at it. And how can a book, even a fiction
• 53:23
  S6: book help people to take these very real things much
• 53:26
  S6: more seriously?
• 53:27
  S8: Well, I think people are really curious about the nether world. And,
• 53:32
  S8: you know, they're looking for supernatural stuff. And I think
• 53:36
  S8: when they they find a novel that they know is
• 53:39
  S8: based on Scripture, they're curious enough to check it out.
• 53:41
  S8: So that's our hope. That's what happened with Left Behind.
• 53:44
  S8: It crossed over. We were stunned by that. You know,
• 53:47
  S8: here's a novel by a minister and a and a
• 53:50
  S8: storyteller who are clearly Christians. And yet everybody seemed to
• 53:54
  S8: be reading it because they were curious about what does
• 53:58
  S8: the Bible say about the future? And, and here we're saying,
• 54:01
  S8: look what the Bible says about the past.
• 54:03
  S5: You know, you just mentioned something there. And then we're
• 54:05
  S5: going to give a keyword here, boom crew so that
• 54:07
  S5: you can get this work that that is it is
• 54:12
  S5: a truism that we have ceded the supernatural to the
• 54:17
  S5: big screen for and stayed relatively silent. Now that's changing.
• 54:24
  S5: I know another Jenkins who's changing that, but but that's changing.
• 54:28
  S5: But boy, this could be a catalyst to say, no,
• 54:32
  S5: we're going to talk about powers Beyond in ways that
• 54:35
  S5: you have maybe never heard. I that might be one
• 54:39
  S5: of the greatest takeaways, right, Jerry?
• 54:41
  S8: I think so. And one of the things that I
• 54:43
  S8: think is really special about this, Mark hinted at the
• 54:45
  S8: fact that that Adam and Eve were musicians. And of course,
• 54:48
  S8: we see the angels singing in heaven. Mark got a
• 54:52
  S8: bigger piece of the talent pie than the rest of us. Um,
• 54:56
  S8: I've never been mistaken for a theologian or a scholar,
• 54:58
  S8: but he, besides all that, is a songwriter and wrote
• 55:03
  S8: ten songs that go with this book. And we've got
• 55:06
  S8: artists that are recording them and it's all coming out.
• 55:09
  S8: There's going to be actually a soundtrack with a novel,
• 55:12
  S8: which is something I've never been involved in.
• 55:15
  S6: Wow. And the book The Battle for Heaven and earth.
• 55:18
  S6: It is an epic, epic work exploring the origin of evil.
• 55:22
  S6: I want you to text the word battle. We'll send
• 55:24
  S6: you the details. Just text battle to (800) 555-7898. Just that
• 55:30
  S6: one word battle to (800) 555-7898.