Latest / Basic Folk / Frazey Ford Revisits the Subtle Grooves of 'Indian Ocean', ep. 331

Transcript

Frazey Ford Revisits the Subtle Grooves of 'Indian Ocean', ep. 331 · Basic Folk

0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Basic Folk where we have on his conversation with Folk and Musicians on the Bluegrass situation.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Cindy House.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the host of this podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening today.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Today we have the incredibly wonderful, talented, legendary, crazy Ford.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Freezy has reissued her sophomore solo album Indian Ocean.
0:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk all about that collaboration before we fully dive in.
0:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into how you and I can stay in touch.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: let's talk about what really matters.
0:47
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0:49
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0:55
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1:00
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1:04
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1:06
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1:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what?
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a link in the show notes to do so.
1:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get down to it.
1:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Freezy Ford has always loved Soul Music.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: She fell in love with Otis Redding at age 11, discovered people like Ann Peoples along the way.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was Al Green that really knocked her out.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: She loved the layers, the expression, and especially his voice.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: She completely dove in and even started an Al Green coverage band.
1:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Although she'd been perfecting her soul sound, the band that took off her Ford was of course the be good tannies.
1:52
[SPEAKER_00]: She talks in our interview about how the trio really worked to perfect quiet, beautiful country music, which took roots in her love of soul.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: She took that love into her solo career with her first record, Obadaya.
2:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though her solo debut was mostly a folk record, documentary filmmaker Robert Gordon heard one of those songs on the radio.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: He sent her an email and invited her to work with Al Green's band The High Rhythm section.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That invitation was the inception of her second album, 2014's Indian Ocean.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Now with the Deluxe edition release in 2025, Indian Ocean suffrazied coming into her own as a solo artist, working with brothers, Charles on the Oregon, Lee Roy on the base and Tini on guitar, The Hodges Brothers were The High Rhythm section.
2:41
[SPEAKER_00]: they taught her so much about groove, space, and collaboration.
2:45
[SPEAKER_00]: In our conversation, Frazier revisits those sessions and the lessons they brought.
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: She talks about how the brothers had always wanted to record with a folk artist and what kind of care and attention they brought to her songs.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: She reflects on her time working with teenie Hodges, who actually passed away before Indian Ocean was released.
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: but not before it was finished.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We also get into her early life with her hippie family, her many creative outlets, and her fashion ethos.
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll take a listen to a couple of clips from Indian Ocean throughout the interview and we'll start with this clip of DUN and then we'll get to our conversation with Frasey Ford on basic folk.
3:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I was taken every half from me I thought I should've done some other bitch And I'm not Who I'm done Who told you to kill me Without the rules and do you Will it take me forever God damn full time
4:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so you grew up in Canada with your dad who I read was an activist wanted by the FBI.
4:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how true that is.
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And also your mom was called a free spirit who took you and your sister to Nepal, which sounds like a free spirit.
4:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Very true.
4:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you called them your hippie family.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So for better or worse, how do you see each of your parents in yourself?
4:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, first, let me clarify my dad was want to buy the FBI and they were on the run for a couple of years because he was a pretty serious activist in the 60s.
5:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But also to clarify, years later I found out he wasn't my biological father.
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like a whole thing.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very flat to us.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I see each of my parents in myself?
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the question?
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Firstly, my mom taught me how to sing as a very young person like three.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: She wanted me to sing the melody so that she could harmonize.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: She grew up in Brasco with a lot of this kind of Cagin, brunch, Irish sort of musical tradition.
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So many ways my mom is like very
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Wild.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: She's very fierce.
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: She's probably the most adventurous person I've ever known in my life.
6:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she took this traveling around Asia for seven months backpacking when I was 10 and we were like climbing the Himalayas and some of it was amazing.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it was crazy.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all of the things.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my mom was like very independent and very self-motivated and very, um, half and very fun, you know, um, but you have similar singing voices.
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, cool.
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that so much of my style actually comes through her, um,
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was more drawn eventually to learning kind of more sort of soul.
6:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I was always drawn to like blues and gospel and all that kind of soul stuff.
6:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And we sang a lot of like, I mean, the Harris and kind of country like stuff that she grew up singing.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But her voice is very similar to mine.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And like it was just kind of a thing that was always around that wasn't really a big, a big deal.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like,
7:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, I definitely like the musical tradition to kind of come straight through her.
7:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then my dad was a poet and an artist and a general like outside the box banker in so many ways.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and yeah, he kind of had that dedication to art and very like anti-capitalist and very, um, questioning of
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: sort of systems, you know, but it wasn't like any kind of idealized childhood.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like there's a lot of tough things that we all live through, but a lot of his, you know, I was really given the permission to like when I was young, he was like just follow your heart, you know, and that kind of thing.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a given that permission to be an artist if that's what I wanted.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Right on.
8:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you were mentioning, the music that really struck you was soul music, even though you listened and were exposed to all sorts of music, but it was people like Otis Reading and Peoples and from what I understand especially Al Green, who you first heard when you 11 years old,
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you recall what it was like when you first heard Algreen and also like what is that feeling like for you now when you hear Algreen, especially in thinking about reassuring Indian Ocean with that you recorded with his band?
8:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I heard Otis Redding when I was 11, it totally changed my, I just thought it was a beautiful voice I've ever heard in my life.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I still feel that way.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I didn't actually hear, um, I'll green until I was like 19 and I was in one den and I was kind of in the middle of like a, I don't know, nervous breakdown.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was a whole part of my life.
8:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But the first time I heard out green, I was loving happiness and I was in the attic of the house in London, my
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It just blew my mind, the layers, the expression, the particularly, like his voice, but also the organ.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought about that music for so many years and listened, I had a cover band, I played outgrain.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The way they worked together as a team, every single instrument, just to me, just embodied so much sort of spirituality and love and strength.
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: To this day when I just whenever I hear anything that those guys did, it's just, I don't know, it's everything that I've ever wanted out of a music.
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the way the arrangements are, the way they flow together, all the space that's given, but all the intuition that's used as well.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I still feel very insanely blessed that I got to meet those people and look with them because they're still my heroes, like completely.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: amazing.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I have so many questions about working with those guys on Indian Ocean.
10:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's interesting to note is that you love soul music.
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned that you had an Algreen cover band, but the sound that took off for you was folk and country would be good.
10:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about how you work to incorporate your love of soul into that band or how you see or saw through line of country and soul?
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I was kind of always weaving back and forth between these sounds.
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me, it was a surprise when the Bigotongus took off because it was almost like this like nerdy study group that we had because I was obsessed with like 30s, gospel and blues, Sam was obsessed with 30s, like country, and Trish was obsessed with these news and she was learning how to play the banjo.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had grown up singing that kind of close harmony style.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So meanwhile, like Trish and I
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit more like a soul band and then I would sing with my mom all the time or I would sing with friends so I'd always have like a band and then I'd have sort of a sit around the living room kind of
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: like, share song sound.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And to me, to be a good song, it was kind of that sit around the living room, like close to my heart kind of private music that I would sing with my mom.
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just didn't really thought of it as stage music.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird, but I just never really thought of it that way.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And but I think that like, you know, I'm never thinking about this also too, like, the point of Easter social club, like those kind of bands, like, because I started out in these
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was the 90s.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like there was be some guitar player.
11:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It was all about being allowed.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was forever seeking the subtlety of arrangements that could happen in a acoustic setting, but also bring that to
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a band setting and so all that kind of like bought and sensitivity that goes into an algorithm arrangement or like a blender visa social club.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We were I from the get go was kind of we were bringing that Those concepts into the big of time is and I think that we sort of artificially separate country from soul and like and folk and they're not that
12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: far apart so you know it's just a little bit different instrumentation and then you're you're moving over to
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: soul versus versus kind of a country sound and there was always like if you listen back to those albums a lot of those songs with slightly different instrumentation could be soul songs it's just that we were, you know those kind of close harmonies really push it to that kind of more almost like bluegrass sound.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like for me it was a bit of an artificial separation but because I love all of these music so much I was always trying to
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Figure out how to knit them together in some way that was like constantly sort of an obsession that I had.
13:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there'd be good time is definitely have a groove to them that I feel like has kind of like laid the foundation for anybody who wants to have a trio of close harmony singers together.
13:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Now when you say like, I want to know how it felt like with the be good time is like you're saying
13:32
[SPEAKER_00]: The Bega time just required in a time where it was the 90s, so everybody was being loud, and the music that you were singing with your mom was kind of like a private type of music.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, how did it feel to take that quiet, private music and performance so publicly?
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was interesting, like, I think that because I grew up with my mom singing all the time, and it was really just like furniture around the house.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't, um,
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it wasn't a big deal.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just part of life.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was always kind of surprising to me how much people responded to that music.
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it, to me, was just sort of a very natural extension of kind of my family.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess, in a way, I had it in my mind that there was like entertainment music and there was sort of the,
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, just kind of natural music on those.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of funny.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost like, it isn't tell more recently that I've been able to look back and be like, oh, yeah, I can't wait people work.
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been going to that sound.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but like, yeah, yeah.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, it was sort of like, um, I was like, yeah, we're just singing together.
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's what we're doing.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I didn't, um,
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think too much about it.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was just sort of like, oh, I guess people like this, like, quiet, because you know at the time it was like the big voice people were like huge, like you got to be like hidden these huge notes.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was so obsessed with like these soul singers that I was kind of like, oh, I want to be able to sing all this kind of soul stuff.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I maybe I was just sort of tipped for granted that kind of like natural country sound that I grew up with or something.
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cool.
15:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Indian Ocean was first released in 2014.
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting a deluxe edition.
15:24
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a famous story that the documentary filmmaker Robert Gordon heard you on the radio and invited you to work with the high rhythm section, aka Al Green's band.
15:35
[SPEAKER_00]: The song that he heard on the radio was, if you gonna go, which is from your first solo record,
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: which is a foky record, but definitely has some soul elements in it.
15:47
[SPEAKER_00]: How surprised were you that he heard your love of soul music in that song and how validating was it to get that call?
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That was one of the strangest experiences of my life.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I also just feel like, I don't think I was being played on the radio and matches
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: the song while he was like getting a tire changed and he didn't hear who it was so he phoned the radio station to find out who it was and then he looked me up and sent me this email and I was so like floored and it was such a dream come true that I didn't reply for like two months
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: what it happened.
16:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It still is like such a crazy coincidence.
16:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, sorry, what was the Russell?
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Just how surprised you are.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like you're really surprised.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I was shocked.
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, when we did, uh, Obadaya that record, um, John, John Ram, who I make my records with,
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But after life studios, we had sat down and talked about the production of that album, and because it was my first kind of solo record separate from the Bigotanias, we talked about, you know, what direction we wanted to take it, and so we were like, let's do something that is somewhere between Algreen, I'm still in love with you production and harvest nearly on harvest
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we intentionally were lifting everything we could from out, you know, from the Willie Mitchell high record sound in like a quiet subtle way.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So he, the fact that he got it and recognized the influence that's also extremely successful at Amcibals.
17:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was just, it still loves my mind that he just like nailed it and then was like, oh, you could work with these guys and I was just like, what the hell?
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: What the hell?
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So of the opportunity to work with the high rhythm section, you said I was actually terrified because it was a dream come true that I almost didn't like the idea of bringing the dream into reality.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It just seems safe for to keep it in the dream world.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And also it sounds like you didn't respond to him for quite a while.
18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But you eventually did a new went for it.
18:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So like what did this experience teach you about going for things that scare you?
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was terrified.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was like,
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I was obsessed with literally every single note that those guys played, and I knew it, and every single person in my band, because we also brought some band members, they were also like worship at the structure of those musicians, and so it was terrifying.
18:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt really scared, but they were so kind and so welcoming, and
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that like I remember going for a run like a week before I went to Memphis for the first time.
18:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So these sessions were kind of broken up between a few years and just that had so much anxiety about it.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still to this day think about how anxious I felt going into this experience and that
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: that type of anxiety is such a sort of key point about, like if you're feeling that kind of fear, it is probably a good idea to move toward it.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That really important big things are often feel really uncomfortable and then just really important.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I continue to feel extremely uncomfortable
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Comfort isn't a marker of whether you should do something or not.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so cool to be able to identify that type of healthy anxiety and also speaking of nerves.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard that when you got down to Memphis, which was very soon after you made the decision to go, you did not have many songs written.
20:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So were you at all nervous about that?
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: What was it like to go down there and not have all the songs ready to go?
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I didn't love very many songs at all.
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a few songs, and it was just kind of almost like the beginning of an exploration, like how was this gonna go?
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt really scary, I felt very raw.
20:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still like that, like I'll go into the studio and kind of not know what I'm gonna do, and it's still feel scary.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm free-spirited of you.
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I just kind of like,
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's something I really feel like every album I'm learning over and over that this, this piece of work has
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you're a conduit for it, but it has its own intelligence.
20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just kind of using you.
20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And you feel so lost and like human and confused.
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing itself has sort of an energy and an entity.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the end, it'll kind of come together like these puzzle pieces, which doesn't make it any easier in the process at all.
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But it like often,
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: like you'll get these foreshadowings.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're kind of like following your intuition, it will lead you in a direction.
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I kind of sensed that.
21:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was scary.
21:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there was like, did you, did you have that knowledge that you just shared back then?
21:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We were like, this is all going to work.
21:31
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to work out.
21:32
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, I think you know, you have your different cells, like some part of me knew that that was going to work out some part of me near exactly what to try, but it's not like it's not like the rest of me is just a regular bumbling human with like I'm in the end thoughts in my head that's like so full of self doubt and so there's always that parts always at the front and like the wise part of me is generally at the back.
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, like my friends, my guys, one of my close friends always like when you start talking about a different career that you need to go to do because all this is too crazy.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I know your album's almost done and I'm like, okay, I got you know that because I'm always pretty convinced that like, like, I don't know what I'm doing at all.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's like that, but
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we did that kind of exploratory session, and yeah, and then I kind of went home and like had writers block for a while and and just thought about it for a long time like what was I going to do because I didn't want to make like a soul record.
22:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to do like a real collaboration.
22:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I think that they were like, oh, this person's, you know, maybe they're like, oh, she's coming down.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: She just wants that owl green sound.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and once they figured out that I really wanted to like collaborate with them and create something new, they showed up early.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like so excited about this whole project.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were still sweet and so lovely.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what was that like when they realized, like, oh, Frasey actually wants us in on this, like 100%.
23:12
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like for you to have when your favorite band suddenly like fully invested in your songs?
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It was amazing, like I have a clip actually of Tini showing up like the second day.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's just all intercoids and intercoids car with like all this turquoise, everything and he's like sitting in the car blasting.
23:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Fleetwood Mac and he's like he's like kind of like Fleetwood Mac.
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's so awesome or what I never knew.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But they just like they started to really open up to me because I think that I was showing them a lot of vulnerability and I think the music that I was bringing was pretty like close to my heart and
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that they just started to sense that like this was a real like honest kind of collaboration and they were they were so they just were so open and they said that they'd always wanted to like collaborate with a folk artist something that they hadn't really had the chance to do.
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to know them really as people and still feel close to them like they're so
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, a million more questions about this.
24:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You've spoken of the band's relationship to groove and space.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So how did working with them on Indian Ocean expand your relationship to groove and space?
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so many ways.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're an entity.
24:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this power of people who've played together for like 40, 50 years and they are brothers and they have just been this powerhouse behind so many artists in that space, in at Stax as well, with William Mitchell and they are just almost this like organic force
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But they are also so respectful and they move as one, but they take so many risks.
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they use all their intuition that they've had working together for so long and just moving all these kind of really unexpected directions.
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really thought about it when I was there.
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, at the, like, soul was always it's like experimental, risk-taking,
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: a thing it was never frozen in time as anyone's style.
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always just about these like experiments and risks that everyone was taking together musically.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think also, I think like because I came out of like what I was saying before all this kind of acoustic music and really wanting to preserve that like
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: space and subtlety that I was pretty like pulled back in my sound because I just wanted I wanted the vocals to be forward.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the motion to be first.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to be dominated by these kind of like these allowed sort of sounds.
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think with that, I learned so let go and just kind of trust what they were doing and trust where they were taking things because when I realized it's like they really spot respondents so emotionally to almost like
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: in these directions that I wasn't expecting at all.
26:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And it allowed me to kind of sit back and be like, okay, where are these guys going to take it without feeling like I had to?
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes I would guide, but sometimes I would just be like, when I recorded September feels, it was in the first session, it was when I was in the most nervous.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so nervous.
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually had them turned down in my headphones because I didn't.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just sort of overwhelmed by the experience.
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that song originally was kind of this high lo and some kind of country song.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when it came out into the control room, they had done this whole thing around it that was so like loving happiness.
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it felt like just the quintessential like that's their power.
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like their
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: read joyous expression that just like brought so much life to that that song.
27:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about the the moment or like after you were able to when you were recording with them, like turn them up in your headphones and like not be overwhelmed or actually like be in it with them?
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that I just like um I after that song I I was like okay, I'm safe
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I can concentrate, I can listen and you know, and sometimes they got it immediately and sometimes I would bring in my own base player or my own drummer to kind of guide it because we were really trying to meet in the middle and you know, sometimes their instincts were incredibly perfect right away and sometimes it was like we were kind of carving it on being like okay what is
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because then I went away and I worked on these songs for a long time and I had Brighton's block and I was kind of like, oh, what am I trying to write for this album?
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually I realized it really doesn't matter what I write.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I can write anything.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can bring it to them.
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can trust that what they're going to do is listen very much with their hearts and respond
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: so intuitively.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just, like, soul music is just feeling and the responsiveness.
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And even looking back on this footage we have that we never really looked at.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like watching their faces and how much they're like feeling what I'm doing and how much I'm feeling what they're doing.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just kind of this mutual reverence for truth and for pain and for joy.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like
29:10
[SPEAKER_01]: that we really met there, you know?
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
29:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've been in an experience like this again, but you're somebody who is used to collaborating with close friends.
29:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So how did this experience of working with people who didn't know you helped build your confidence in yourself as a leader like in unknown situations in the studio or other types of like musical unknowns?
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think um, like I don't do that very often.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, that's interesting.
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it really affected how I work with my band and that in a lot of ways I learn to just kind of, um, to let go a lot more.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think in the early days of the big of times it's almost like we're fighting to carve out some space for sort of, um,
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What we wanted to hear and it was a bit of a fight like we'd invite someone into play and they would just like play really loud or, you know, we'd be looking for a drummer and it was like all about this kind of male dominated.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Thing and so like I was in all these bands where it's like.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: the bands of play too loud and so I think I was like really protective of that space of like subtlety but I think after that experience kind of as a band leader in that way I understood that most of the people that I work with are really like it allowed me to kind of let go and lean on the on trust my band more and trust musicians more and to like
30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: to see what they have to say, see, and let them take up a lot more space, essentially.
30:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So, sadly, Tini actually passed away in between the time.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like my time-line, let me know if my time-line is wrong.
31:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He died in between the time that you've finished the sessions and the album release back in 2014.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: How did his death impact the way you feel about your work
31:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was quite a while between the sessions that we like I can't remember what year it was but we went down and then it was like at least at least two years before I went back and finish the album and he was calling me pretty regularly to just like check in and you know he was just like so I really felt like in a certain way he waited for me to come back and finish that album because the first time I went he was
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Like by the second time I went and he was on oxygen and his health was failing pretty quickly and I think he was unwell for quite a while and he passed away like just over a month after we finished that last session and I just I really did feel like he kind of held on to finish that record.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt so honored by that and I just I always felt his presence around me and I still do like the amount of brilliance he has his genius and I felt like I still just feel so lucky that I got to have that experience with him at the end of his life and he was so funny and so wacky and
32:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I recorded him telling so many stories and they just like, I have sip older brothers and I always they just really treated me like a little sister and it was very special.
32:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned this earlier that Tini had told you that the band had always wanted to record with the folk musician.
32:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So folk music is all about telling a story and soul is often about the pure emotion and the rhythm.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So what was their approach like in terms of supporting the stories found in your songs?
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the thing.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for them it was, yeah, just like similarly because the story is the feeling it's the same it's the same thing there's just more there's maybe a little different descriptors, but I think they really respond.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: emotionally.
33:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean at one point I was like a little nervous about the song done because it I always thought maybe it was like a little negative or something and Charles who's the keyboard player was like he was like
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he loved it, but he was like, as long as you're okay, like, as long as you're not holding on to this thing, because that, you know, he had some like spiritual, he's a reverent.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was like, having his opinion about like not wanting me to stay angry.
34:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, but I, I feel like it was the same.
34:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I felt like they, they responded with with with the feeling regardless.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So the writing on the record is filled with some fraught, pretty confessional songs like Dun, What a Bangor.
34:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you attribute the way you are writing to the collaboration with the brothers, if at all?
34:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that the idea of the collaboration shut me down for a little while, because I had it in my head that I was writing
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: or this soul record.
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't until I really let that idea go and just wrote the way that I write that I felt free to express myself.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just felt like the songs that came out at that time, were the songs that came out of doing a lot of therapy.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of sort of step from my past that I'd been processing for a lot of years.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: In a lot of ways, this album was sort of a result of many years of sort of like healing work that I done around my childhood and my family.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and that was sort of a vulnerable, a very vulnerable thing to kind of bring to these guys.
35:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's, I when I settled and sort of realized like,
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't matter what I was gonna sing about that they were just there to support this emotional movement.
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when it just, that's when it really started to flow.
35:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, even though the songs are heavy, the brothers brought a lot of joy through the recordings.
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And you said, I learned from them about the power of marrying hardness and joy together, those sessions were really a spiritual lesson as well.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So what would you say is like the key to bringing together great sorrow and great joy, and then after that realization, how did that change you as an artist?
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that within that African-American tradition of so many of their musical forms, it's not just this sort of nihilistic, if they're going to sing something sad, something hard, it's never going to be from this place of just the pain.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always going to be within attempt to overcome
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: like into spiritual evolution, into power, into joy.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really felt like when I played a song, like I hadn't listened to the song for a long time, but season after season, or they just, there's always this undertone of bringing the joy to it, and that there'd be no reason to just leave
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: a listener or leave yourself hanging in a place of just paper darkness that there is this underlying that that's what music is music is a healing energy and that healing energy comes through with that marriage of like depth of difficulty and depth of joy within it and
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: They just were so masterful, it always kind of finding a way to kind of elevate something from beneath rather than just have it be like a stark sort of sadness, like taking that stark sadness and and bringing these like elements of like bubbling.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, the organ is just like the way Charles plays is like this you're floating on these clouds like no matter what he plays is just there's this lifting sort of energy.
37:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It that really changed my ideas about like what music is essentially.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the story of you and the band trying to play.
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still in love with you, where you learned about the 40-year argument.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: How did that interesting tension change the atmosphere in the studio?
38:15
[SPEAKER_02]: That was so funny because
38:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like at the end of the day, there are also brothers, you know?
38:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have these like old standing human foibles.
38:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, okay, so boom, Mitchell, who's really Mitchell's grandson runs a studio.
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, we start in on that song.
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly, they're like shouting at each other.
38:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They leave the recording session.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all pissed off.
38:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're basically behaving like they're having like their children and they're having a fight.
38:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So funny and so human and then there's a there's a video clip somewhere that Robert because Robert Gordon filmed so many these sessions And so we didn't know what to do.
38:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd all left and boo was like they've been fighting over that one quirk for 40 years like never try to play that And then we were like okay like noted and then um and then so I sit down at the piano and I start
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: playing out weather pattern.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I start.
39:18
[SPEAKER_01]: working out on her was that it yeah I think it's I think it's weather pattern or something and then there's just a hilarious scene or one by one they come in and they're all kind of mad at each other but then they're all like sitting like standing around me like learning the song and like a bunch of little kids you've just had you know they're fighting over some toy and someone got mad it was just like so human and so hilarious oh my gosh I love that
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a couple of questions about your other creative outlets.
39:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Here, let me list them, sewing, painting, ceramics, making lamps, pattern drafting, to mention a few.
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You say music as a creative outlet has more pressure by being public.
40:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like to reclaim my creativity and lose the sense of an audience for a while, which is so smart.
40:16
[SPEAKER_00]: it seems like you have so many other skills and also the skill of being able to pick up other creative outlets.
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you go about approaching a new creative skill and how do you feel that impacting your music quality?
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I really just let myself be curious about whatever.
40:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a curious person
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to do something with my hands, I like to do, I like to sculpt, I like to paint.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to just do literally anything.
40:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of, I get like, I have to stop myself from like making all my furniture or whatever.
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just, I want to understand how everything works.
41:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So every craft works, it just keeps on brain.
41:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Good, like if I have if I'm like down a YouTube tunnel trying to figure out how to like like I just bought a kill and I'm trying to learn how to make mixed glazes and It keeps me sane.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It keeps me because I can't write musical the time.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not somebody who just like writes means it all the time.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even like like I think because
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't like having my whole identity be one thing as a musician.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even, like, I feel like any of these identified, like, I'm with this, some of that kind of gets in the way of just having fun and just, or for me, it did anyway.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of, like, if you get too wrapped up in the idea of yourself as any one thing, it's kind of limiting.
42:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's sort of, um,
42:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I just let myself explore and I'll just get obsessed with a new thing and I'll let myself kind of just just go for it and I feel like when I dive in I'll just my it's like I'll feel my myself be pulled toward visual art or the pulled toward writing or I'll be pulled toward anything I feel like everybody is so.
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: creative actually like that's you know as human beings like we are such a disaster but what we have what we really have is that we're all extremely creative like every single one of us is naturally incredibly creative like it's the downside is that we're creatively self-destructive and we're creatively stupid and so anyways but really like I think humans harnessing their creativity is like
42:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's such an untapped potential in all of us, I think.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And all creative forms.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: relate to all creative forms.
43:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So anything that you learn in one area, you can transfer that to another area, because it's all just taking risks.
43:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's using your intuition.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's making decisions.
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all it is.
43:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And the less good you are, something, the more you have to sort of learn about yourself by trying that thing.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's all what I find is like,
43:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I can get stuck in music because I also have a side that's like really perfectionistic, and that's like your biggest enemy when you're trying to do something.
43:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So for me to switch into making clothes or ceramics, then I'm just like, I don't care if I make a mistake.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I just try and those kind of risks and mistakes you made are the thing that's going to be
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: like that's the only way to make anything is to be willing to be bad at something so that always helps you when I come back to music to just remember the thrill of just being willing to like totally fuck something up.
44:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have an Etsy store?
44:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh no.
44:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not, but I'm going to be thinking about like selling some stuff just to get it out of my
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have always thought that you have had like an incredible sense of fashion.
44:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you.
44:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about you design and sew some of your own clothing.
44:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:44
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your fashion ethos?
44:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are you thinking about when you design your own clothes?
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, ultra one.
44:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I have like a different body type.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curvy, I'm bigger.
44:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I like to just, it's harder for me to find stuff that that works for me, that's in my size.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one of the reasons I make my own clothes.
45:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, what is my fashion ethos?
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like it's funny because my son is not really into fashion and we talk fashion like really intensely like he'll be getting up in the morning He'll wake me up to like review his look.
45:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It gets kind of intense And my friend who is sleeping out was like what the hell is going on like we're discussing the philosophy of like his jewelry or whatever
45:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that like fashion is just another way to like express yourself.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like if I'm getting dressed in the morning is like the first creative act of the day where you're like how do I feel like what color and my drawn to what's the energy.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And since the same thing, I was doing interesting the like one day you're really drawn to like peach and the next day you're really like it's like you're it's like this conversation with your soul like your soul is like really drawn to a very specific thing sometimes and and I was like what is that energy?
46:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that?
46:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like we're you know like a flower or something in nature like you're being is drawn to like express itself in some very specific way and like who might argue with that you know?
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's not in my philosophy.
46:19
[SPEAKER_01]: just aligning yourself with an energy that feels right for you and I feel like when people do that, when they express themselves genuinely, it gives other people permission and then when you see
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: authentic about them and it's so beautiful to see, like when people are so even if they're thing that they want to express is that they just want to wear like their grandpa's coveralls or something like it does it is not expensive is not fancy it's just like what what particular thing are you in particular feeling that moment even if it's like you wear a white T-shirt every day that's what you're feeling that's your so expression I guess is my philosophy
47:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Great, love it.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, before I let you go, let's do the lightning round.
47:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
47:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, first of all, let's start with who is your fashion icon?
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, who is my fashion icon?
47:21
[SPEAKER_01]: God.
47:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I do really love Paloma, El Solcer.
47:32
[SPEAKER_01]: She's, she's great.
47:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know if I have a fashion icon, right now my fashion icon is my son because he's just like killing it.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got some great looks going on.
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: My, uh, Caroline Ballhorn, he sings with me.
47:47
[SPEAKER_01]: My band, she's got insane style.
47:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm so many people that who's style I love.
47:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your favorite type of venue to perform at?
47:57
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite type of venue is like kind of a mid-sized theater, like the Vogue Theater Vancouver that's maybe a 1,500.
48:06
[SPEAKER_01]: a historical theater with a dance floor so there's some seating but there's also dancing and there's a really nice acoustic.
48:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my favorite kind of space to play.
48:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, most likely haunted.
48:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely haunted.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like to, you know, if there's a few ghosts I can hang with.
48:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that too.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Love.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you drinking before the show?
48:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I generally have a little bit of red wine.
48:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is your celebrity crush?
48:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, so I'm ready, crush, oh god.
48:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so bad with those types of things.
48:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now I'm really, you know what I was living on?
48:45
[SPEAKER_01]: This, you know, Bobby, Manu is, she's a, they are an actress, actor, and I run into them on the island that I'm living on.
48:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Manu, as muñez, Bobby muñez, and Julia and more.
49:02
[SPEAKER_01]: love her.
49:04
[SPEAKER_00]: The best.
49:05
[SPEAKER_00]: She's been doing some weird things lately.
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
49:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Outside loving just like watching older actresses be older actresses.
49:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so refreshing.
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
49:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: All right here's one.
49:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Which musician living her dead would you like to design a stage outfit for?
49:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Design a stage
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, to Angela.
49:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, I'm going to put it in the court.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Same with them, but like, design a stage outfit.
49:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
49:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll do the combo.
49:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Dream collab.
49:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The dream design.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, this is the last one.
49:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the most beautiful place in the world?
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Um.
49:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just there, I live part-time on a small golf island and I went to this walk today right on this cliff and you can see all the mountains and the ocean and it's like these trees and that's the most beautiful place I think.
50:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that sounds amazing.
50:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
50:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Crazy.
50:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
50:10
[SPEAKER_00]: This was so fun to talk to you.
50:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So fun.
50:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
50:21
[SPEAKER_00]: With this episode of Basic Folk was produced by CJ Nungesser, Dietrich Strauss composes our music.
50:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Basic Folk is a production of BGS.
50:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find all of our episodes there.
50:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You can check us out on folgalli.com or folgalli's mobile app, search for Basic Folk on the Series XM app.
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go to our website, basicvoke.com or you can listen wherever you get your shows.
50:44
[SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoyed this episode, perhaps you should share it with a friend, like maybe your friend Rachel, who you think of all the time when you're thinking about the Bigotanias, because you mentioned one day that you were listening to the Bigotanias, and she surprised you by saying, oh my god, I love the Bigotanias.
51:02
[SPEAKER_00]: it's like is kind of mind blowing how far of a reach that band has.
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe Rachel would appreciate this episode of Basic Folks, so send it to her.
51:12
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we'll talk to you next time.
51:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening all the way to the end.
51:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.