Latest / Taking Initiative / "What's in it for ALL of us?" Recap Season 1 with Laura and Pat
Transcript
- Laura Lucarelli: I guess I'm a number of things. ⁓ a mother, I'm a wife, ⁓ a professional. I've I've worked in project management and portfolio management. So I see the big picture and I I get excited about process and seeing when it works and when it doesn't work, which was kind of how we spun up Ohio Ballot Protection and you that's a separate story. But you know, I think the reason we started the podcast is because I was itching to put my journalism Patricia, these these are fun. I'm really enjoying getting to know you and and talking to our audience. So thank you for coming along this journey. Patricia Blackmon: ⁓ thank you for having me. ⁓ I think we should do a little quick introduction. ⁓ for those who have not listened to our podcast, it is called Taking Initiative. And we patterned it after not only the ability of us as we the people of this great democracy that we live in, but that we would go forward and Laura Lucarelli: Days to use. ⁓ I'm a graduate of Ohio University, Proud Bobcat, with a journalism degree. ⁓ I kind of fell into other courses of work and I love asking questions. I love interviewing people. I love hearing their stories and their motivations and their challenges. And ⁓ I'll tell you what, one of my favorite episodes was me interviewing you, ⁓ even we had like talked to each other prior. Patricia Blackmon: Take responsibility for our direct democracy and not leave it up to our representatives only. Our representatives of course are very important in our lives. But we, the people, are more important than anybody, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, what do you think, Laura? Laura Lucarelli: Your answers just floored me what you've been through. It was so cool. You're living history. I mean, and what an honor to work with you. that you opened it like that. That is absolutely why Ohio Ballot Protection, which is the reason that we have this podcast, exists. It's because the people. It is all about the people. being able to change their lives and have direct control of that. And Ohio is so special and we've learned throughout this first season how many incredible stories there are about people working hard to change things for their neighbors. less than twenty five, and we're only one of twelve in the whole US ⁓ that allows to constitutional amendments, statutory initiatives referendum directly to the ballot. In other states ⁓ they either have nothing ⁓ or they have to use their legislature as the intermediary. So Ohio's special. Patricia Blackmon: Well, so I have a lot of questions. S sometimes you may see me, audience, looking down. Don't judge me. I'm just trying to make sure I'm asking the correct questions. So Laura Lucarelli: Well and and Pat, we should probably say too, like, why we're asking questions. Like t today's a wrap up, right? Yeah. Patricia Blackmon: Yeah, absolutely. This is today is a wrap up and instead of talking to somebody else, we decided to talk to each other. But the person who is being interviewed today is Laura Lucarelli. And she's gonna tell her story. So this and she will explain to you how taking initiative came into being. But before we do that. I'm going to ask her a question about the podcast. I am interested in what you thought of the various episodes. We had we interviewed a number of individuals, those who are running for office, and those who are responsible for ballot initiatives. And we're really excited about because. Laura Lucarelli: Yeah, we we had a lot. Patricia Blackmon: Even though they may be running for a particular office, they also instrumental ⁓ handling ballot initiatives. The Attorney General and the Secretary of State. just one word. Can you think of just one word to describe ⁓ those ⁓ those that we did over the course Since January to to June. Laura Lucarelli: Yeah, I th I think I think we started in March. I think we launched in March, but we started planning before that. ⁓ yeah, you know, I would say overall the word that kept coming back to me was inspiring. The courage of the people that were bringing things forward and just trying to make change. I mean it th this is not for the faint of heart. These are some really cool people. I I'm I'm in awe of many of them. Patricia Blackmon: So we could really describe individuals who see citizens walking around with a tablet or with a ⁓ notebook with ballot initiatives on it, asking for your signature. And most of the time we don't think about it. If they explain what it's about, we sign, if it makes sense to us, that we want to put it on the ballot so we the people can make the decision. Does that is that a fair assessment? Laura Lucarelli: Yeah, it is. But, you know, just to kind of do a retrospective, we talked to people who directly are putting put things on the ballot. ⁓ some successful, some not. We talked to people that were involved in signature gathering. Maybe, you know, it wasn't their original idea to to bring something to the ballot, but they were full in to to try to get it there. ⁓ as Patricia mentioned, we talked to Secretary of State and Attorney General candidates to say how would you support direct democracy because we wanted them on the record as people that may be our next leaders. Are you in support of people having ⁓ you know the this power in a and enabling it? Because what we've noticed over the past several years are there have been a lot of hurdles and that's that's a big reason that we started to talk. So we could educate people when things don't go right, why? And is there maybe something different you might consider if you're planning to do an initiative? Patricia Blackmon: So maybe we should give a definition. You've studied this a lot. So what is your definition of direct democracy? Laura Lucarelli: My definition is as a person, I can directly get something on the ballot so my neighbors and friends and family can make the ultimate decision. Indirect democracy, and maybe this is something I'm kind of making up, is now we've put somebody in office to think for us, do for us, and The neat part about our direct democracy is if we don't like what they've done, we have the ability to repeal a law that we do not agree with. It is a difficult road. And, you know, we talked to Mandy Falbaum from Youngstown State about the repeal of SB One. They didn't get it on the ballot because it is so incredibly hard, but we do have this power and we're digging in to understand how best we could use it. Patricia Blackmon: So do you think that we're taking for granted that people actually know what we're talking about when we say the constitution or we say the ballot? Suppose it's someone who has never voted and maybe not appreciate what the ballot does, and that we live in a country that is governed by the rule of law and not a few people. Does that make sense? Laura Lucarelli: That is a very loaded question. Yes. Yeah, there are definitely people that do not feel part of our democracy right now. And I I think that's underlying what you're getting to. That maybe things are not going their way. The state has been heavily gerrymandered. There's another word people may or may not be familiar with, but you know, our state gets cut up into little sections and each section or ⁓ district then you know gets a leader that that ⁓ is over that whole district. So now you've got people that have cut up pieces of Ohio that are so broad that one person cannot adequately represent the the various ⁓ communities within a district. And so what's happened over time is people are not well represented by their legislators because by design it's been cut up into something that's just not manageable for one person to really get to know their constituents. Never mind. There are politicians that just don't do town halls, don't respond, you know, they're gonna do what they wanna do. And so that is why I'm so grateful that in Ohio we have this tool to directly influence our livelihoods. Patricia Blackmon: I I guess if you ever say to a person, have you ever heard of an area called the snake on the lake or a snake down the center of Ohio? Then you have an appreciation of what we're describing. And these districts that have been started under gerrymandering sometimes can be very painful. But we have tools and systems to look at them. and to make a good decision. What do do you agree with that? Or am I being too broad on Laura Lucarelli: To hear how you'd answer that, Pat. Patricia Blackmon: Like ballot initiatives. And I like it when citizens come together with each other and actually say, This is wrong, the way this is being interpreted. And we would like a constitutional amendment. Or they would say, that's statute that is detrimental to our health. And we would like to have a statute or referendum on the issue. And so we have so many variables. And I think that I'm getting close to maybe an answer. I don't know. We keep learning as we go. Laura Lucarelli: Every episode. I'm telling you, this has been a lot of fun. you're right, Pat. This is it's tricky. It's ⁓ it it is difficult to defend democracy ⁓ even when things are going swimmingly, right? Yeah. Patricia Blackmon: Yes but I I love to of it in this respect that our founders were not the best humans on earth. But what they wanted was a more perfect union. So they kept striving for something better. And that's what we have to do. We don't go back. Backwards is not a good idea, but some people believe that that's an appropriate way. But anyway, we're gonna we probably should move forward a little bit and talk about who is Laura Lucarelli? Laura Lucarelli: Pat, you weren't there at day one, but you were there maybe day two or three. ⁓ but I w it was pretty pretty soon after. So, my friend Simon and I were part of a group in Northeast Ohio of of women activists that formed an election committee ⁓ and we wanted do something bold ⁓ and we said, know, there was that issue one. Patricia Blackmon: Was it dead? Laura Lucarelli: That happened back in twenty twenty-four where the ballot board like rewrote the language of a citizens redistricting initiative to intentionally confuse voters. And we kept saying, you know, gerrymandering really should have been solved through that initiative, but how is it that we as people have this power, yet politicians have the ability to, you know, push it aside and and mess with it? And so The idea formed why don't we really understand what our power is and where things are not going well? Is there a a a way to safeguard our power and ⁓ you know, make a long story a little shorter? We made a lot of phone calls and called organizations that were already active in democracy and said, Are you doing something? We got a group of people that wanna help and they all said, Great idea. You should do that So We found ourselves starting a new nonprofit and ⁓ I was speaking at a group and I mentioned that, you know, we had a pretty monochromatic group of people and we needed to broaden representation. And Pat thank you for jumping up right after that meeting and introducing yourself. ⁓ that was that was a highlight Patricia Blackmon: So what I have learned, do you want me to tell you what I've learned? When you actually make a statement to Laura Lucarelli, she already has moved five steps in front of you. ⁓ And she's already decisions ⁓ that are just profound. So I respect you for that. And I am honored to be on your team. Laura Lucarelli: I wanna hear. No, Pat Patricia Blackmon: I think I think we are really we're learning a lot. We are doing a lot. And ⁓ I think the most you know what strikes me the most is that every one of the women that I have met are learning and wanna learn and want to be a part of the process. When I was growing up We were trying to get people energetic and to actually think about why do you want to vote? Why do you see yourself as a part of this community to make a difference for your community? And it was hard. And now I see these young individuals, humans, who want to know first of all they want answers. And they wanna understand which way they are going. Do you see it in that way? Laura Lucarelli: They deserve answers. So yeah, I love the boldness of of the younger voters ⁓ and understanding that they need to be part of the process. ⁓ absolutely need to be. Well, I'm president of the board of Ohio Ballot Protection and I'm co chair of of the group. And we're all just, you know, bunch of happy humans trying to make a difference. So to answer your question, what what do I say when I meet somebody younger? And and this harkens back to not too long ago. I hired a kid to come over and help me with some weeding because the weeds have just taken over, right? And when we're down there, you know, doing our gardening, and it was such a it was just such a peaceful day to to meet somebody. And he said he was not aware of a lot of current events and and he's maybe like a year or two past being able to vote. So we're very early in in this ⁓ age range and he said a number of his friends just don't feel part of the process and and you know, just really didn't have an interest. And I said, Hold on a minute You have to be aware. Otherwise you're surrendering your power and you're saying you know better than I do. I'll just do whatever you tell me to. And then we're in situations like we're in now in the state of Ohio, where we're finding out that our politicians behind our back have ⁓ given tax breaks for decades to build large facilities that will, you know, be part of our electric drain and and use our water sources and and years and years and years of tax abatements so what do we get out of it right like how cool to be the owner of these companies but ⁓ what's in it for So who's protecting us? You have to hold these people accountable. And they're gonna do what they're gonna do unless you tell them hey ⁓ This is what's important to me. And if they just continue to make bad decisions, your vote is going to be the reason that they do or don't get to come back to work. So please register to vote. That also gives you the ability to sign petitions because here we are talking about initiatives. You can't just pass it out to anybody to sign Any petition, you have to be a registered voter. So if you want to be part of the process of change, and it's a pretty easy thing to put a signature on a piece of paper, you have to do the work to become a registered voter. So I do think I converted him and I'm hoping that he turned around and shared with friends. It matters. Don't don't sit out. Patricia Blackmon: one of the things I was thinking about as you were talking, what do we say to young people? and it made me think of what my mother used to say to us because my mom came along when Martin Luther King was inspiring the sixties and telling people what our rights were. And many people didn't know. So My mom always took her right to vote so serious that she would take us with her. And one of my brothers who came to visit me, he said, should I go register to vote? And I said, absolutely. And why and so when I was growing up, we had teachers who taught us what the system was like. So that when you were faced with it, you had the opportunity to do better. ⁓ And so look at young people and I have conversations with anybody who will talk to me. And some people don't want to talk to me. But if they do, I try to explain to them why it's important for you to show up, to be a part of the system, and not say, What's in it for me? But you use that phrase. What are we gonna get from it? I don't look at it like what's in it for me, that that's what you were talking about. What you were talking about is we are the people who are a part of this system. But you do have a well you You said no, no. You said what's in it for us. There is a difference. Because most most young people say, Well, what's in it for me? Laura Lucarelli: Did did I say that? Did I say what's in it for me? Patricia Blackmon: Like my nephew. He was like, well, what do I get out of it? I said, you gotta think bigger. And you think bigger by what will the society get from it? Will there be climate change? So I just wanted to clarify that and to make sure that anybody that's listening will understand that this is not ⁓ what's it for me. It's what's in it for ⁓ all us. Laura Lucarelli: Very important distinction. Like I can't believe I would say that Patricia Blackmon: I think yeah. I didn't mean to scare you. Okay, I have this we have still a few questions. Are you an advocate or an educator? Laura Lucarelli: like to say some of both. I mean, yeah, I'd I'd like I would say this year I'm really leaning on educating and starting with educating myself to really understand what our process is. And you always learn by teaching. So as I learn, if I can describe to you and it helps you understand, then you know, win for all of us that we've been able to to to help get some word out. Patricia Blackmon: Do explain. Laura Lucarelli: But second, I am rooting on there are a number of active campaigns happening right now and we we've got a ballot tracker going and you know there've been highs and lows with all of them, but I am just profoundly enamored with the courage and the selflessness of a number of people that are bringing things forward at at you know great cost to their own lives. This is a lot of time. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of aggravation. It's a you know, you you see you see lies in the opponents, like you s you know, you your hopes get dashed because it doesn't go swimmingly. But sometimes an uphill battle is so worth fighting because you gotta put in the efforts. And I mean I do wish, I do wish that some of these groups had an easier time, absolutely. But I mean they they are role models for so many of us. Patricia Blackmon: So just to be clear, We do not any group ⁓ or their initiatives. Laura Lucarelli: No, but we are highlighting several I believe we've made it through ⁓ but one or two of the active campaigns right now. And one of ⁓ is because they're no longer actively collecting signatures. ⁓ and another one, we missed a connection. We invited coalition partners to a libertarian event and we were expecting to meet one of the initiatives to do an interview and they weren't able to attend. Patricia Blackmon: ⁓ we kinda talked about it anyway, but what do you do you think that we're at a crossroads in our democracy? ⁓ Or you do? ⁓ Laura Lucarelli: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I I do feel like there's a real opportunity for the people to come together and decide that we own our future and not to give it up. Not to give it up to a a small group, a group that's not listening to the people. I know this is happening all over the US, nationally and at the local level. ⁓ civil liberties are in in danger right now. Absolutely. I mean there seem to be attacks on voting rights and privileges. ⁓ not everybody's treated equally, you know, I think I think ⁓ that's that's pretty apparent to me. Patricia Blackmon: think I would have ever envisioned this. I I don't even understand it. And I was around in the Kennedy was assassinated, I was 13. ⁓ And I grew up having the country its way and actually be the leaders of democracy. ⁓ And ⁓ And I don't think people really understand that word. What do what do you think democracy means? Laura Lucarelli: I mean when I hear democracy, I think it's by the people, for the people that we have chosen how how our society works based on you know, rules that that we all agree are for the greater benefit, not personal, not what's in it for me, but how how to live in peace or as peacefully as possible, you know, in in community. Patricia Blackmon: I think that's a wonderful way to look at it. Most of us say, well, democracy is about the right to vote. And some people say democracy is about the freedom to be. And that when Jefferson was constructing the Declaration of Independence, he was actually looking at how he wished he had lived. This is my theory. Because he was not a perfect human. And he owned slaves and he benefited from slaves. And in many ways, we don't have to get into all of the history that we all know. But I think when when a leader starts to have a dream of how he wished he could have lived at this time, that we should pay attention to. Because I think that's why he wrote those words and why he was so adamant that this is what he wanted our democracy to be. Not a king, but a voice of all the people. Because the people have various interests, but I think in the end they show what their worth is. And you can see it in every day. So I I like your definition of democracy and I think if anybody asks me I'm going to say well Laura Lucarelli said ⁓ Laura Lucarelli: Please do not. Patricia Blackmon: Okay, we have we have a couple of questions about direct democracy. We've talked a little bit about how this process works. Most people think, why do they call it direct democracy? Why isn't it just democracy? ⁓ But in Ohio, ⁓ democracy gives you a leeway from ⁓ democracy. And so one person who kind of engineered all of this for Ohio and he went around and talked to many states in in those years, early 1912, is Theodore Roosevelt. I've often wondered as I read his the speech that he made to the 1912 convention in Ohio, which is where he urged Ohioans to start A constitutional amendment that would give them the right to direct democracy. And it happened. And one of the things I've been thinking about is, and he talked clearly about corruption. And he could see it happening in the country. And that we needed to have a way to get o get over, under, and around that kind of corruption. So ⁓ would actually fit the bill today to be ⁓ Theodore Roosevelt? Laura Lucarelli: So I gotta tell ya, ⁓ you did send me the questions ahead of time. And this this is the one I'm gonna wiggle a little bit. And I'm gonna tell you, I don't think there is one politician right now that I feel strongly is doing any better than a group of citizens Patricia Blackmon: Okay. Laura Lucarelli: I was thinking about the influence in surprising places. I mean you think about artists that are standing up in front of their audience at concerts, people like Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, calling for people to rise up peacefully and and be part of a dialogue. I think about Pensey's spices and how they are selling spices, but with a you know a strong ⁓ hand in in getting people spicy about being part of their democracy, if you're not familiar with them. Great company. I think about the historian Heather Cox Richardson, who has become like a a big voice of reason over the past couple of years in particular. to really root us in history and show us that we should remain optimistic and there is a path forward. I mean there it I really I just really feel like the people of Minneapolis looking out for each other during the ice raids. Like it is the people coming together. Our culture, I think I I do really believe deep down that we can turn a page and and be stronger together. so I wish I could say there's one leader right now that can like pull it all together and do that, but it can't be one person. It collectively has to be all of us. Patricia Blackmon: And I agree so that to me, that dropped the mic. Laura Lucarelli: So we're wrapping season one and I just wanna thank you, Patricia, for coming on this journey with me. It's been fun. We're still learning our equipment. We're learning, you know, how to how to how to work I've I've really had a ball just getting to know people and you in particular. And and this is not this is just a temporary pause because ⁓ One of us likes to golf. It's not me. And so there's that's gonna be happening over the summer. And ⁓ I'll be on the road with Maria, my co chair and others, like bringing Ohio ballot protection town halls, ⁓ in several places in Ohio. So we're gonna be busy the next couple of months. But we're coming back in the fall and we already have a big list of people we cannot wait to talk to, introduce to the audience. And we're we're open to feedback too. If there's somebody you think we really need to talk to, let us know. Patricia Blackmon: Absolutely. And I just want to say thank you for this opportunity. I didn't know that I could do this. ⁓ but I am learning and I'm always learning. Laura Lucarelli: goodbye for now, Pat, but it won't be for long. ⁓ Patricia Blackmon: thank you. Look ⁓ goodbye now, Laura. Thank you so much for this interview. You were magnificent.