Latest / The Habit Lab / Episode 79: When You Stop Fearing Others' Disappointment, Everything Changes

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Episode 79: When You Stop Fearing Others' Disappointment, Everything Changes · The Habit Lab

• 1:08
  Speaker 1: We all have areas in our life we might feel stuck or overwhelmed.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So join me, jenna Zint, habit coach, teacher and follower of Jesus, as we go after little bits of better by building offensively small habits that create big impact.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: This is the Habit Lab Podcast.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Hello, this is Jenna Zint and this is my Habit Lab.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: We just finished week one of for my time management class.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: There's about 30 people joining from all over the country, which is fun.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you wanted to join, honestly, I could send you the replay and you could watch and join for next week, but after that I don't think it would make much sense for next week, but after that I don't think it would make much sense, so I'm going to leave that there, okay, so this episode is about kind of ditching the fear of punishment and there's a little backstory.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a personal antidote.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that'll be like 15 to 20 minutes, but it was such a good little time for me to have a little bit of I don't know if like truth slap from the Lord's the right word and then watch a practical application as I like, made the adjustment afterwards and then the beautiful, like fruit that came from it.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I want to share this with them, with you guys, my virtual friends I don't see, but I know you're out there.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I regret that accent majorly, but we're gonna, alas, I'm gonna let you laugh at my ridiculousness and I'm gonna keep it in.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So I have a good friend who had a dream, a couple I think it was like a month ago where the Lord spoke to her about needing to get free from her fear of punishment and there's more obviously more to it.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: But because it's her story and dream and encounter, I'll leave that there and not say more.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: But since she kind of was telling me some of the examples that the Lord was highlighting in ways that the fear of punishment popped up for her, and I was like, oh dang, I can very much relate to that, so it's just set me on like a journey of y'all.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I swear I never have to cough until I start recording.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And then I'm like what am I even choking on?
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not sick, I'm not.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I'm so confused.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So apologize about that.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: But it set me on this journey after she was describing what the Lord was saying, the fear of punishment, how it pops up in her life and what it looks like.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: What's the unhelpful parts of it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I can relate to that, I have so much of that.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: So it's just kind of sent me on this journey in the last month of getting curious and noticing how it comes up in my own life.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I realized quickly, like where does it come from?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Why do I have such a heightened sensitivity or triggered response to potentially getting in trouble?
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: And for me, I you know, whenever I do that, when I ask why and use like scientific curiosity, usually it leads back to some part of my childhood, but not not with blame, where I'm looking to point the finger at someone or something, but more of like oh yeah, it has been that long.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: That is probably one of my first remembering.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Actually, the first one I remember just going to be totally personal is lying to my mom about whether I washed my hands or not, because I knew I'd get in pretty big trouble and I wouldn't be allowed to eat.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: It was like we were driving somewhere and I was in the backseat of a minivan and I remember, oh, I wouldn't be able to eat and it was going to be 30 minutes before I could go somewhere that I'd have food, but I wouldn't.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be in trouble anymore.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: So it's funny.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: But when you ask, like, when did I first learn that?
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: That was what popped up for me.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And then the Lord just showed me how much it has been strongly tied into my people, pleasing, like not saying they're from the same, but like this very similar correlations of like.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I am often afraid of, yes, the actual punishment, but more the person's almost not more, but maybe equally so or actually more.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of times more I was thinking more.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: As an adult I don't actually have a lot of instances where there's punishment.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe when you're a kid you have more options for punishment, but most of the quote unquote.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: When this would flare in me now, my fear of punishment.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: The punishment would actually just be people's disappointment in me or feeling let down or whatever.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Me impacting their emotions, like them being sad or mad or hurt by something I did.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: That.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: My fear, my heightened fear of like I'm in my people piece and I hope that I never impact like the goal would be and it's elusive.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: These are things you don't actually say until you start thinking and the Lord's like, highlighting, like hey, follow that that train of thought, and you're like, oh my gosh, success is me never having a bad impact on people.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, I'm afraid of their punishment.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: And punishment could be as simple as disappointment or expressing how I've let them down.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, these are really tied together, okay.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So then I just started getting curious about, like, what does it look like when the fear of punishment flares in me, and a lot of times I'm like flooded and I I yes, if I actually have made a mess, I will hypervigilantly apologize, maybe.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Or if it's not that big, you know, like I didn't miss it that much, so it's not like I lied or I'm late, there was just a misunderstanding.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: And now they're bummed because that's going to happen.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: When they thought this was going to happen, I then would be since I'm not majorly in the wrong in those instances how my fear of punishment would show up is that I'd be like well, I'm not wrong, you're wrong, cause I'm like, how could I not feel this punishment, this disappointment, like all of these things?
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Um, and I would like fight with them or talk about in my head all of this was in my head, how I'd argue with them to try to prove how they were in the wrong and not me.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: And I was like, wait, wait, wait, what if I get?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Take off this like I can be okay and not triggered.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: When people are purposely or not purposely, it doesn't actually matter if their hearts to punish me, if my brain is coding it as punishment, what if I actually lost the fear of that?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: What would I be left with?
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: And so this was a real life incident that I was.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I've been pondering this for a while, thinking about like, oh man, this fear of punishment is so tied to my people pleasing and when does it come up?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: So I had a great opportunity to walk this out on Sunday.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I was helping run something with other people, like a group.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I'm purposely being vague, so sorry if it gets more confusing, but it's hard when you share your real life examples and you don't want to share anyone else's story but your own.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm trying to do if I'm ever very vague.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: But so I was helping other people.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: There was a commitment.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: There was a few of us who signed up for a shift and 10 minutes, but my Sunday I had so many things, it was the most wacky booked Sunday and when I can.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: There's not very many things in my life that are out of my control because I'm self-employed, you know.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So I can actually make my schedule work and I have a flexibility to move things.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: So rarely does it happen that like four things out of my control that I can't move happen on the same day and I'm like I'm stuck, this has to be my plate.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, what am I gonna do?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a good attitude about it.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: So, that being said, I was a little.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I was late for this commitment because I had so much more the rest of the day I had to get rid of or get ready for, because I was going to go from thing to thing to thing and I got a text from the person one of the other people on the shift saying you signed up for this time.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: It is now seven minutes after that time.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Are you going to be able to keep your commitment?
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: You guys talk about a great opportunity.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: To look at my fear of punishment.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: The cool part, though, so instantly defensiveness would be like okay, they're ticked, or okay, maybe that was too harsh, but I was like nope, nope, actually, look at the facts.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: You were late and you told them you would be at this time and you did not communicate that you weren't there, and or you were going to be late I'm sorry or that you were on your way.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: So they might they want to make sure that you're going to be there, because what does that mean for them and what are the implications if you're not, if you forgot?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, okay, no, it's reasonable.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And then I went to and look is it actually punishment?
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Go reread the text again.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: What you felt or heard, what you were implied meaning.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Some of the podcasts I've done recently have been like losing your filter or stop mind reading, being like what you heard versus what did they say.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And when I went back and I was like they actually were very purposeful to be very factual and they had no accusation or even emotion or blame in there.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: It was purely facts.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Okay then, why?
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: So then I actually felt flooded with like they actually did a good job.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: They were probably managing themselves and chose their words purposefully to ask me if I was going to hold my commitment without adding any extra extra.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: So then I actually went to okay, I respect that, the self-control that it probably took when they were writing that text, which is totally different, and I wouldn't have gotten a little more curious about it if I hadn't been like no, no, no, we're not doing fear of punishment anymore.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, what does it actually look like when the Lord highlights something?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes we can think about like this is what the Lord told me or showed me.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And then I think there should be practical steps to practice or get curious when that flares or when it's highlighted.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: This is when it used to happen.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: What am I going to do now?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: What was my normal default?
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: So it's like there is the freedom in the grace.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: When you, when you reveal something and you have an encounter or I don't know, powerful prayer time, someone else is praying for you, there is a grace to unlock that.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: But I think sometimes I heard someone say once the encounter is the first step, not the final step, to the healing.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So then, walking out this revelation, you get of like, okay, the next time it happens, how am I going to talk my brain into choosing differently and showing up differently and getting nuanced about what actually happens after I'm flooded with the fear of punishment?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, good information.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I start to add filters and add meaning to people's stuff because I'm defensive, because I'm flooded with shame and guilt about how I'm disappointing them and I'm afraid of what they're thinking or saying or not saying.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, we're not doing that anymore, no problem.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: So that was step one.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Then step two was to okay, you can own what is true.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: You can own and apologize for being these minutes late, explain that you're on your way and give some empathy.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: That's kind of how I think.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: When I do miss it and I have something I need to own instead of fawning, which would be kind of shame spiraling, I'm so, so sorry, I cannot believe you're there, like this will never happen again.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: You don't deserve this Like that.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: To me, that level of apology usually is a triggered fawn, something that's happening.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Like fawn means that's the gosh I should.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I think I've explained this in another episode.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: We have four triggered states and it's, you know, fight, flight, freeze or fawn.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And fawn is usually when you shame spiral and you're like, oh my gosh, like you're ingratiating yourself to them.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Humor can be fawning as well, but usually when it's like a gregarious apology that's probably not the best word but like exaggerated extreme, I'm like, oh, fawning's happening.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: There's like a trigger response.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So in me trying to grow out of that response oh, fawning's happening.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: There's like a trigger response.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: So in me trying to grow out of that response, it's been very interesting because then I don't want to go to the other end where I don't express empathy.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, when I miss it, even when I'm not fawning, I want to make sure I own and say sorry and give some kind of empathy and care for what I did, without digging myself into a hole like I used to.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Like you should, how do you let me be on the board?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: You should probably vote me off.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not worth helping with this shift.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: You know like I joke, but it would get.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: It'd get pretty big pretty fast when I would use to trigger apologize when I miss things.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So, anyways, not doing that but still offering that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: And then later when I was driving, I I think I've mentioned it before Like I was, I was just flooded.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm going to show up funky if I don't actually process this fear of their punishment, of how I'm expecting when I show up but I actually get there for this thing, how they're going to treat me or interact If I do not process, if I do not take the time on the way to the engagement, I will be more funky and funky for the rest of the time.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: So as I was processing with the Lord, I was like, okay, I gave them credit for what they said.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I lost the in my fear of punishment.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I ditched the adding meaning or how mad they are and actually plainly saw that they did a good job.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: And then my next step in losing my fear of punishment was giving an adequate apology, without fawning or going too much so, and owning what I have, expressing empathy for my impact.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So then I was just posing with the Lord.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like what, what would it look like if I lose, if I lost the fear of punishment?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: The emotion behind it, the triggered response, what would it be with?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And we're like, okay, if it's not punishment.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: There is a consequence, though.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Like the Lord, in a sense, kind of like disciplines, like he doesn't punish us Cause, you know, because Jesus took that.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: But there are consequences.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: You reap what you sow, in natural order of things for our behaviors and our choices.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So I'm like what if consequences?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Just the Lord and I started dialoguing about this, trying to not be funky.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: By the time I showed up to this thing that I was late for and he was like consequences if you didn't have a fear of punishment, what would consequences be in their purest form, without some maliciousness behind it or motivated it.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I guess, and I just felt like consequences would be a teacher, natural consequences, without punishment, without being punitive, without being afraid of someone else's emotions or what's behind them.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: It would actually teach me a lesson.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: It'd be an opportunity to learn.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: If I could dial, like interact with it, almost like you know flubber or like goop or all those like slimy things we had growing up, if I could actually with, if I had a consequence in my hand instead of being like gross if I pulled it it was looked at how it behaved and what happened and after I put it in one hand, what residue was left.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, if I was just like curious about it, without being emotional, I would actually learn about it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, maybe consequences with when you ditch, when you break up, when you lose, when you get healed from a fear of punishment, maybe consequences could actually you could interact with consequences where you clean up your mess and you repent quickly but then you learn something and you show up and are able to hear the message.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Because when I was having this conversation with the Lord on the drive, he was like your ears turn off when the fear of punishment happens because you're so in self-protection or how wrong or shame spiraling, that you're no longer able to hear the message of some of the consequences teaches you, and then you can't course correct what am I going to do next time?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Because you're flooded with emotion and you're actually missing a beautiful lesson that had have a valuable like takeaway in it.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And I was like what if I looked at consequences like literally cause and effect, when you leave your house five minutes before you're supposed to be somewhere, you will be and it's a 10 minute drive.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: You'll be five minutes late, without any identity statement, without any worth statement, without a fear of what they think of me or what they don't think of me.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I was trying to think of something else.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Oh then example I thought of was like okay, nature, like nature actually has a ton of natural cause and effect relationships, consequences that are not punitive in nature.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: So, for instance, because I walk the same trail area in my house, like by my house, like all the time.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Actually, I'm a little bit might be like neurotic at this point about how often I do it, but I notice all the differences and there's I noticed all the time how like there's tree, huge tree branches that have fallen apart or lost, fallen off or lost the top part of the tree, and some of them are from lightning, some of them have been from wind, some of them have been from insect infestation.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: But the reality is to me, initially I want to have like a sadness or some kind of an emotional response to that, like oh it lost, oh it broke.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: But I was like, if I actually look at it more naturally, that tree's not sad, that broke, like something else will happen.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: It is like a cause and effect, natural order of things.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So it's like, if I look at it that way, there's a lot of cause and effect and learning opportunities in nature If you take the emotion out, for maybe it's not bad or good, but what am I?
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: What can I learn from it?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And actually approaching situations like that, I'm like, wow, I would show up entirely differently if I could handle and like squarely accept consequences and then use it as a teacher and a learner for what I want to do next time, or what's working or what's not working.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I would actually, that would be so valuable.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: What if I could actually get to a spot where I see consequences as valuable because they'll help me edit a bit or have some breakthrough in area versus this?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Flooded with the fear of punishment, I was like, oh, I get why that would be worth going after losing a fear of punishment because it's blocking me from having consequences.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Be my teacher, oh, so good.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: When I literally was in the car driving just processing of the Lord and he was like talking and we were dialoguing about it, and I was like, wow, I was like that would be a game changer.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, I get why it is important for me to go after breakthrough and losing this fear of punishment, because it's actually my shame.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Making it about my identity or what they, who they think they are or what I think this now reflects about me, I lose making it about my identity.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I lose the natural teaching moment or that consequence a cause and effect relationship would give me like, wow, I'm blocking myself.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I really actually needed it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Shame here, or perceived judgment that I'm getting or not getting from somebody else, okay.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: So that was like the bulk of it Fast forward.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: So now I'm almost at the place that I'm supposed to be and I'm going to face the person that sent me the text and is waiting for me and I was like, okay, how did they?
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Because I process how I felt and it got to the spot of causation.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: And how did I get here?
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: And I actually had to prep for the rest of the day and I probably should have calculated my time a little bit better, knowing that I had four things after this that I was prepping for and I actually tried to make donuts Like what's kind of a long story.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I tried to bring something sweet and it took longer and it didn't actually work out.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: So then I got there and ended up throwing away what I was late, partially late, not entirely, it wasn't all its fault for making.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: But that was a really good learning moment of like hey, actually, when I was engaging with the cause and effect in a logical state and took my identity off the table, I was able to learn like do you notice how often, when you try to make something extra special or bring something sweet or elevate, that's usually what trips you up from being on time?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my gosh, that's like nine times out of 10, why I'm late to something.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I'm just gonna grab balloons real quick or I'm gonna grab the poster board, or let's just bring popsicles which I don't know anyone outside of a seven, if that's probably their answer for things.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: But I bet you have your own reason of If you can look at something in causation, cause and effect, without a fear of punishment or being an assignment of your identity, you can get really good information about what's often a tripping point.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: So I got really good information and then I was thinking, oh, okay, well, how about?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: And then I started remembering having to face this person that sent this text and I was like, oh, they're probably so disappointed, oh, they're probably so mad.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And I was like, that's adding filter.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, instead of feeling afraid of what they might experience or being afraid of their disappointment of you, what if you weren't afraid of their disappointment?
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, well then what are they feeling?
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So then I started just asking myself what could they be feeling in their shoes, what would it be like in their body?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And I was able to get to the spot of like probably.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I bet it's disappointing.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I bet there's some loneliness.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I bet they feel because they feel alone.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: And who was supposed to be there, versus them solo.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they feel hurt like taking advantage of because they're the one that's there and doing more of the work.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: And I was able to work past my own stuff Because I got.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I was like processing through my fear of punishment to get to a spot where I could actually Imagine I had space to wonder what it would feel like to be in their shoes.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So then when I got to them and finally walked up and was talking to the person, I did again kind of the version of the sorry that I did in the text, where it wasn't fawning but it was owning where I missed it and apologizing and then also empathizing with the impact that that would have.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Like those are kind of my three parts that I'm allowed to do for a good solid apology.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Then I was like I actually just said all the things to them that I had imagined what they were feeling.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: So I was like something like hey, and I realized like thinking of you standing here late when we there should be two of us with you I was like I just felt sad for you.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I was sad because I probably felt really lonely, like are we expecting you to carry more of the weight.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Is it like a group project that we're bailing on and expect you to be the responsible one?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: And I've known you for a while and I know you are always the one on time and you're usually carrying more of the weight.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So, like I just feel sad that this, my tardiness, could potentially push on that button for you.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And they broke into tears, you guys.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: It was like such a sweet, tender moment and they were like I feel, really seen and understood.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And then we dialogued probably for about 10 more minutes after that, which I won't get into because that's more personal, but it opened up this really sweet moment of like it turned into ministry moment and we got to pray and there was like some more stuff and it just ended up being way fuller and cooler.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: And as I was reflecting later when I was driving home from the event, the Lord was like if you hadn't faced your fear of punishment and you had just gone on the normal protocol where you felt afraid of their disappointment, you would have been in self-protection and distance.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: You would have shown up funky and you would for sure have never gotten to a spot of wondering empathetically, not out of a shame, spot of trying to like work your way out of a hole, but of like giving them identity and telling them, like seeing them.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: That would have that turned into this beautiful ministry moment.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Do you see how much the fear of punishment was like almost gatekeeping.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: All of that, goodness, oh, I feel the Holy Spirit and I was like oh, yeah, yeah, wow.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I could have missed it and I could have shame spiraled with the fear of their disappointment being you know the punishment in this scenario and I would have missed one, I would have had a less good time and I would have been funky, but two like wow, I would have been so self-focused in a way that I would have maybe before, before I realized it was like kind of partnering with the fear of punishment.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I would have maybe thought it was like trying to teach myself how not to be there again, but the irony is it was looking at my own dirtiness or tarnishedness.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: But when I got over it and was able to like the Lord, like lift my head up, I was able to learn to like learn a bit of a lesson and then see the other person in front of me and I think that was the big takeaway.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Moment is like fear of punishment keeps my eyes on me, versus losing the shame and worth and then being able to extend to other people.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to continue to go on this journey of noticing when my fear of punishment flares and causes me to either want to be defensive, to mind read, to assume why they're disappointed, to be combative about how they shouldn't be disappointed, or shame spiral because I did miss it and I was like, oh, I just want to be able to process it and not be partnering with that in a way that I can face cause and effect for my actions and I can face consequences like almost square in the shoulder, where they don't they don't tell me who I am, but I can interact with them as being a teacher and learn the lesson they have, and then look at the other person because I'm getting past myself with the fear of punishment.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm just going to pray for you real quick, because this was just such a special little time with me and the Lord and I know so many of you have said that you related to the over-responsibility podcast, so I'm guessing a bunch of you people out there are also can relate to my people pleasing.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Therefore, I bet, as I'm sharing, you're like, oh, I definitely have a fear of punishment.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I feel flooded when people seem discouraged.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I get a text where my wife's disappointed or that friend is bummed.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I feel flooded and then, yep, okay, I hadn't labeled it, but I would love for you.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I I feel flooded and then, yep, okay, I hadn't labeled it, but I would love for you.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's like an invitation here.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to share.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: So, holy Spirit, we just release an invitation to notice where they are partnering with the fear of punishment, where they're flooded in an attempt to, like, clean up their mess or climb out of the mess it becomes about them.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: So we just break the power of shame on punishment and its authority and we actually just remove the emotion and the identity statements, either given or ones that we take away from those situations and I almost feel like it's like unwrapping, like ditching the dirty outer shell, and then the pure part of it is the.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: As adults, god, we pray that you would just help us to be able to face consequences for our actions, where we look at them as a gift in a teaching moment, and we don't feel discouraged or condemnation.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: We see them as an opportunity, a lesson to learn, versus evidence of us failing, and we pray that in that, as we interact it without discouragement and we can face it plainly, that we'll be able to then see the people around us in a different light, where we have something to extend, versus staying stuck in self-preservation.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: In Jesus' name, amen, okay, goodbye, everybody you.