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Jesus Never Asked You to Be Religious · B1 Podcast

• 0:00
  Mark: Well, welcome to the second episode of B1 Podcast.
• 0:05
  Mark: Welcome back.
• 0:05
  Mark: We made it to episode two.
• 0:07
  Mark: We did it.
• 0:08
  Mark: I didn't, I wasn't sure we were gonna make it.
• 0:10
  Mark: I mean, this is amazing.
• 0:11
  Mark: Hey, just a there's tens and tens of you that are joining us, so that's amazing.
• 0:16
  Mark: A little over a hundred subscribers, um, which is amazing.
• 0:20
  Mark: But if you enjoy what you are hearing and seeing, if it adds value to your life, we would love to invite you to to subscribe and to leave a review, but only if you have some positive things to say.
• 0:33
  Mark: I'm just kidding.
• 0:34
  Mark: Yeah, like, share, follow, all those things.
• 0:36
  Mark: Yeah, but just a couple this is interesting things.
• 0:39
  Mark: 42 people from Mexico are tuning in.
• 0:42
  Mark: Hola, hola, como se llama, como se llama.
• 0:45
  Mark: That's the most I got.
• 0:46
  Mark: And uh what is your name?
• 0:47
  Mark: You just asked what is what is your name?
• 0:49
  Mark: Me llamo Mark.
• 0:51
  Mark: Is it Marco?
• 0:53
  Mark: Marcos, Marco, Marco Marron, Mark Brown.
• 0:56
  Mark: Um, I don't know.
• 0:57
  Mark: But anyway, we we're grateful to have you back.
• 1:00
  Mark: Um I'm Pastor Mark.
• 1:02
  Blake: I'm Pastor Blake, and we have guests with us today.
• 1:05
  Blake: Tell everybody who you are.
• 1:07
  Katie: Uh my name is Katie Palmer.
• 1:08
  Katie: I'm excited to be here.
• 1:09
  Mark: Yeah.
• 1:10
  Mark: Awesome.
• 1:11
  Mark: So we're gonna continue the conversation that we started on Sunday here at OneChurch.
• 1:16
  Blake: I actually was well, let's continue that.
• 1:19
  Blake: I was told by one of my staff members, Chris Wall, C Dub is what I call him.
• 1:26
  Blake: He shared with me that um this was like one of the highest, like as far as the launch of a podcast.
• 1:32
  Blake: It was in the what top 1%.
• 1:33
  Blake: Is that right, Chris?
• 1:34
  Blake: 10%.
• 1:34
  Blake: Top 10% of a launch of a podcast.
• 1:38
  Blake: Which I was like, what the really?
• 1:41
  Blake: They were all watching and waiting for us to screw up.
• 1:44
  Blake: That's right.
• 1:46
  Blake: So, man, just for everybody that's joining, thanks for tuning in and saying nice things and all that.
• 1:52
  Blake: It means the world to us.
• 1:53
  Blake: Yeah.
• 1:54
  Mark: Yeah.
• 1:54
  Mark: Awesome.
• 1:55
  Blake: Yeah, so this Sunday we talked about do you know God?
• 1:57
  Blake: It was really the question, simple question.
• 1:59
  Blake: It's about the heart of evangelism.
• 2:01
  Blake: And evangelism is just a word that says we're gonna tell people about God.
• 2:05
  Blake: And so that's so important in today's world.
• 2:08
  Blake: It's really hard.
• 2:08
  Blake: I think most people feel unqualified.
• 2:12
  Blake: They feel like I I don't want to talk about God, I don't want to know the Bible, I don't want to know theology, I don't know.
• 2:17
  Blake: I yeah, I'm the last person to talk about God.
• 2:19
  Blake: I'm you know how much of a sinner I am, and you know how much a hypocrite I would be if I talked about God.
• 2:23
  Blake: But I think we all feel that way.
• 2:25
  Blake: We all have an inadequacy, we all feel insufficient, like, and I've always laughed, like people that get uh um masters of divinity, like that seems like real you're a master of the divine, right?
• 2:37
  Blake: Like, and and the idea of us talking about God, a creator, or you know, that someone made us, and I want to invite you to know him, is um it's kind of elusive, it's hard to know, like, right?
• 2:50
  Blake: And so I just want to start today by speaking the words of Jesus.
• 2:54
  Blake: He said three things in Matthew, Matthew 10, I think.
• 2:58
  Blake: My sheep know my voice.
• 3:00
  Blake: They they listen to me and they follow me.
• 3:05
  Blake: Or maybe it's my sheep listen to my voice.
• 3:09
  Blake: We we hear his voice, so we listen and then they know me and they follow me.
• 3:14
  Blake: So let's talk about listening, knowing him, and following him.
• 3:19
  Blake: So I think um the first step, you know, I remember do you remember when you gave life to Christ, Mark?
• 3:26
  Blake: Do you remember where you were?
• 3:27
  Blake: How did you hear the voice of God?
• 3:29
  Mark: So I I don't, and but here's a because I I I grew up in church, you know, and so I didn't have a big before Jesus kind of type story, but I've heard an analogy that I pass on to people um often.
• 3:42
  Mark: Sometimes when you're driving to Florida, you know exactly when you cross the state line um and you're like, we're in Florida, you know.
• 3:49
  Mark: Um but then there's sometimes when your kind of head is down and you're just nose to the grind and you look up and all of a sudden there's palm trees, you know, surround you and and you're you're there.
• 3:58
  Mark: Yeah.
• 3:59
  Mark: So I have kind of one of those stories where I'm I just I I looked up and I realized, you know, I'm here, you know, but there's not a definitive moment where I know that I gave my life to Jesus.
• 4:10
  Mark: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Mark: What about you, Katie?
• 4:12
  Katie: Yeah, I think I'd probably say it's about the same, you know.
• 4:14
  Katie: I mean, I think growing up in church, I got saved every Sunday.
• 4:18
  Katie: You know, like you know, there was always the come to the altar, give your life to Christ, repent, rededicate your life.
• 4:25
  Blake: Especially your assemblies of God, AG, they're like, yeah, you saved, get up here right now if you're not like kind of you ran to the altar.
• 4:35
  Katie: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Katie: A lot of that back in the day for sure.
• 4:38
  Blake: Fireproofing.
• 4:39
  Blake: Yeah.
• 4:39
  Blake: Making sure you're, you know, saved from hell.
• 4:43
  Blake: Well, I I think that listening to God um and knowing you hear his voice, like, how do you know that it was the voice of God?
• 4:51
  Blake: And so that I think that's kind of a big question to ask.
• 4:54
  Blake: And I always sort of joke that we're 75% sure.
• 4:58
  Blake: Like I think God leaves 25% to go like, I don't care if it was Abraham, Billy Graham, or Blake Bergstrom.
• 5:04
  Blake: And I like putting myself in that group, those three, those three people.
• 5:07
  Blake: Anyways, the uh the truth is I think hearing God's voice, knowing his will, he leaves a little bit of our own human, like I think I'm pretty sure I heard his voice, but I'm not positive.
• 5:23
  Blake: And so that might be what you're the analogy of going into Florida, like I think I'm in Florida, I'm not sure.
• 5:27
  Blake: Is that what you mean by that?
• 5:28
  Blake: Yeah.
• 5:29
  Blake: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Blake: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Blake: I remember being five years old, sitting on my next door neighbor's front porch.
• 5:35
  Blake: This is very clear, like what's that called whenever it's like a one of those major thoughts in your brain?
• 5:41
  Blake: Remember the movie when it's like a yeah, inside out.
• 5:44
  Blake: Inside out.
• 5:45
  Blake: Remember, and it's like a this is a core memory of me sitting on Mr.
• 5:49
  Blake: McFadden's front white porch, and I asked the Lord into my heart.
• 5:53
  Blake: I was five.
• 5:54
  Mark: That's awesome.
• 5:54
  Blake: And I don't know if I heard a voice, whatever, I just remember praying that, and then I was baptized at 12 because you have to be when I was raised in the Nazarene church.
• 6:03
  Blake: Uh so lots of rules, regulation, legalism, and everybody gets baptized when they're 12.
• 6:08
  Blake: Right.
• 6:08
  Blake: So I did I hear the voice of God then?
• 6:10
  Blake: Nope.
• 6:10
  Blake: Mom and Dad did though.
• 6:11
  Blake: They said you're getting baptized.
• 6:13
  Blake: Yes, yes, ma'am.
• 6:14
  Blake: Yes, sir.
• 6:16
  Blake: Um so a lot of times we are borrowing the faith of our parents, and your parents kind of tell you this is the Lord's will for your life when you're young, you know?
• 6:26
  Blake: You're like, okay, you know, so I go to church and I was doing what I was supposed to.
• 6:31
  Blake: Um, but when the transfer happens, and you you probably can remember when you go, I think I heard the voice of God, or even in your kids' life, right?
• 6:41
  Blake: You know, that they start to listen to God.
• 6:43
  Blake: Like, and when when your kids come to you, I think it's like you've arrived as a parent when they say, Hey, I I was praying, and I think I heard the Lord say to me, It's like, what are we talking about?
• 6:53
  Blake: I'm in all ears, you know what I mean?
• 6:54
  Blake: It's like, yeah.
• 6:56
  Mark: Yeah.
• 6:56
  Mark: I mean, I growing up in church, I I grew up Baptist, and so I remember the Sunday where my a Sunday, because I like Katie, I got saved every week.
• 7:05
  Mark: Um, but invitation came and my heart was beating out of my chest.
• 7:09
  Mark: I knew I needed to go front, and I did.
• 7:12
  Mark: But I I remember seeing and hearing testimonies of people that were saved off a death row, you know, and I was in third grade, you know, and the worst thing I ever did was steal an eraser from my classroom.
• 7:24
  Mark: And I remember I felt so bad I brought it back the next day.
• 7:26
  Mark: It was a little car-shaped eraser.
• 7:29
  Mark: Like I remember that.
• 7:30
  Mark: But I remember like so I didn't have that like before Jesus kind of transformation where I was killing people and now all of a sudden, like, I love the Lord, you know, like I was stealing erasers.
• 7:42
  Blake: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:44
  Blake: You dirty bad little boy.
• 7:48
  Katie: I think there's two things that come to mind when you're trying to decipher like whether or not you're hearing the voice of the Lord.
• 7:52
  Katie: One, if what you're hearing or feeling is a is a creative um forward idea, it's probably not from the enemy because he's not gonna give you a good idea.
• 8:02
  Blake: That's so good.
• 8:03
  Katie: Right?
• 8:03
  Katie: Like, you know, he he can't create, he can only twist and pervert.
• 8:07
  Katie: So if if what you're feeling is something that is gonna honor the Lord, advance the kingdom, yeah, you know, be be something creative and new to touch people's lives, that's probably not from the enemy.
• 8:20
  Katie: And then the other rule I kind of usually go by is like if it's pretty wild, it's probably Jesus.
• 8:26
  Katie: Yeah.
• 8:26
  Katie: You know?
• 8:27
  Blake: Right.
• 8:27
  Blake: Because like start a homeless ministry.
• 8:29
  Blake: Right.
• 8:30
  Katie: Yes, like those things, um, like you were saying with Zacchaeus and you know, like all the um things that we have we've covered in the last couple weeks, you know, on a Sunday.
• 8:39
  Katie: It's the wild out-of-the-box things that Jesus did that nobody was expecting, or the things that are written in the Word for us to know, you know, those stories that he wasn't afraid to just go against religion, whatever was set in place.
• 8:54
  Blake: He's yeah, it's usually things that push you to do something you wouldn't normally do in faith.
• 8:58
  Blake: Yeah.
• 8:59
  Blake: And so those are, you know, like once I was in a hospital praying over people, and there was this guy behind me in the elevator, and it it was a tiny elevator, he was a really big guy, and his belly was up against my back, it was that small, and he starts um his belly starts jiggling up and down, you know, it's like and behind me, I'm like, what is happening right now?
• 9:20
  Blake: And we get out of the of the uh thing, I turn around, I look at him, he's crying.
• 9:26
  Blake: He's he was his belly was moving because he was had hard tears.
• 9:29
  Blake: And he goes, I go, Sir, are you okay?
• 9:31
  Blake: He's a large man, like, sir, are you?
• 9:33
  Blake: I'm looking up at him.
• 9:34
  Blake: He goes, My dad just died.
• 9:36
  Blake: And I go, You mind if I pray over you?
• 9:39
  Blake: Right right there in the middle of the hallway.
• 9:41
  Blake: Like I just knew, Lord, put me there.
• 9:43
  Blake: I'm supposed to pray right now.
• 9:45
  Blake: It's really strange, and so I'm praying, Lord, I'm going for it.
• 9:47
  Blake: Father, be with me.
• 9:48
  Blake: And I'm just all the things, right?
• 9:50
  Blake: I'm praying for healing over him.
• 9:52
  Blake: He goes, I get done praying.
• 9:54
  Blake: True story.
• 9:54
  Blake: He goes, I needed that so bad.
• 9:57
  Blake: Thank you for praying over me.
• 9:59
  Blake: Huge guy.
• 10:00
  Blake: And he had overalls on, we're in Kentucky, and so he's like rednecked, big beard, and like, you know, scary looking fella, but he's like, I needed that so bad.
• 10:08
  Blake: Thank you for praying for me, Pastor.
• 10:10
  Blake: He goes, Man, he reaches in his pocket, pulls out a hundred dollar bill, and he goes, Will you take this?
• 10:15
  Blake: I just want to bless you because you prayed for me.
• 10:17
  Blake: And I go, My exact answer was, Well, you want me to pray again?
• 10:21
  Blake: $100.
• 10:24
  Blake: What are we talking about?
• 10:25
  Blake: I'll pray how many times?
• 10:27
  Blake: No, I'm just kidding.
• 10:28
  Blake: Uh he laughed and then he actually came to my church.
• 10:31
  Katie: But well, because that's an example of what the church should be.
• 10:35
  Katie: We think the church should be here in the four walls and check that box of I go to church on Sunday and I did that thing.
• 10:42
  Katie: But like, how many times have you stopped and actually asked your waitress if you could pray for them because you've noticed the heaviness of them trying to weight every table, you have no idea what they're carrying.
• 10:53
  Katie: Like, you know, I think we miss it so many times in the grocery store and restaurant, even with our own church people, when you see people in church and you think, Man, I'm I wonder if they're okay.
• 11:06
  Katie: Like, that's probably the Holy Spirit saying, go tell them.
• 11:11
  Blake: So going back to the words of Christ, listen, no follow.
• 11:14
  Blake: Usually those happen like that.
• 11:16
  Blake: Right?
• 11:17
  Blake: So it's like, I think the Lord told me, knowing it's the Lord's voice, yeah, discerning that's not the devil, right?
• 11:24
  Blake: And I'm gonna follow him right now.
• 11:26
  Blake: Right?
• 11:26
  Blake: It's normally you you th we often think that's over a course of time.
• 11:30
  Blake: I decided to finally listen to him.
• 11:31
  Blake: I finally thought I knew him, and then I followed him.
• 11:34
  Blake: No, it's normally like in a snap second, like the woman I met this week um at a girl at a place I was buying new pants, and I was like, I'm supposed to talk to her, and I and I think I'm supposed to ask her where she's from or if she's new here.
• 11:48
  Blake: I and I I asked her, she said, I'm brand new to town.
• 11:51
  Blake: I'm like, Well you have a church.
• 11:52
  Blake: No, okay, well, let me let me invite you.
• 11:54
  Blake: I want you getting an invite from the and then she's like, Well, that's funny.
• 11:58
  Blake: I just talked to my friend yesterday about how I need to find a church.
• 12:04
  Blake: And I'm like, Well, hi, I'm Blake, and I have this amazing church I want to tell you about.
• 12:08
  Blake: But it's like, listen to the Lord, no, follow him, do what he says, right?
• 12:12
  Blake: And so I think a lot of people um get hung up by the church.
• 12:18
  Blake: The church doesn't do a great job of making people feel welcome.
• 12:21
  Blake: What I really want to talk about, and I kind of touched on it uh in this podcast, and that's why you're here, Katie.
• 12:28
  Blake: I want you to tell your story.
• 12:29
  Blake: I'm super excited to share your story.
• 12:31
  Blake: But I think there's a spirit of religiosity in the church, especially in Western church in America, that um is repugnant and makes people repel from the church.
• 12:47
  Blake: It's that same spirit of bigotry, hatred, it's a spirit that says, you are not welcome, right?
• 12:55
  Blake: And it's gross that that's inside the church walls, but it's very alive and well, same spirit that was here when Jesus was here, right?
• 13:04
  Blake: It hasn't gone away.
• 13:05
  Blake: And it's the spirit of legalism, you know, it's the pharisaic spirit, it's the self-righteous spirit, it's a spirit that says, you know, it pushes people away from God, not towards God.
• 13:17
  Blake: And maybe we can talk a little bit about stories you've experienced that.
• 13:21
  Blake: I'll go first.
• 13:23
  Blake: Uh I remember with one of my friends, Carlos Whitaker, love you, bro, if you're listening.
• 13:29
  Blake: He's probably not.
• 13:30
  Blake: He's got his own podcast, he's a way bigger deal than me.
• 13:33
  Blake: Anyways, anyways, um, Los Wood Online, if you if you want to follow him, he's an awesome guy.
• 13:38
  Blake: Carlos and I walk into a church, you just the picturesque little white church, you know, that's on the side of the road, and it has like four parking lot spots, literally, maybe six.
• 13:49
  Blake: It was a tiny parking lot, so already it's like, we will accept four cars here.
• 13:55
  Blake: Otherwise, you know, there's nowhere to else to park.
• 13:58
  Blake: It was like on the side of the road and nothing else, anyways.
• 14:02
  Blake: I remember pulling in, it's a Wednesday night, I step in, you know, and we walk in the back, and there's like six or eight people in there.
• 14:11
  Blake: And, you know, it's tiny church, super quiet.
• 14:15
  Blake: When we open the door, it's like, ah, like you hear you hear us.
• 14:18
  Blake: We stand in the back, they look over their shoulder, look at us, and then they go back to doing what they were doing.
• 14:25
  Blake: No one stops to say anything, doesn't even acknowledge our presence.
• 14:29
  Blake: We stood there for maybe 10-15 minutes.
• 14:32
  Blake: We're like, hey, do you think we should go?
• 14:34
  Blake: Maybe we need to get out of here.
• 14:35
  Blake: And so we just left.
• 14:37
  Blake: But we both felt this like, you're not welcome.
• 14:41
  Blake: Self-righteous, you're you shouldn't be here.
• 14:43
  Blake: And I've seen that, you know, like people like walk in with their hat on and like, well, you certainly shouldn't be wearing a hat in the house of the Lord.
• 14:52
  Blake: Or, or you got tattoos, you what are you doing in this, but you don't belong here.
• 14:57
  Blake: And there's a spirit that, I again, repugnant, that pushes people away.
• 15:02
  Blake: And when Jesus was here, he came after it full force.
• 15:06
  Katie: Yeah.
• 15:06
  Blake: If there's one thing he came after, it's the spirit of self-righteousness from the legalism of all the 600 laws of the Levitical laws that they're trying to oppress the people with religiosity.
• 15:20
  Blake: And so I want to talk about that because I hate it.
• 15:22
  Blake: If there's anything I hate in a church, it's that spirit.
• 15:26
  Blake: And um, I've gone toe-to-toe with that spirit on many occasions.
• 15:30
  Blake: People that have come up and done and said horrible things, like I heard the voice of the Lord and He told me to tell you all kinds of things.
• 15:39
  Blake: And I'm like, Yeah, I don't think that was God.
• 15:41
  Blake: You're just a butthole.
• 15:43
  Blake: You know, like it's like, you know what I mean?
• 15:45
  Blake: Like and the spirit of religiosity is clearly all over you.
• 15:49
  Blake: And so uh apparently we say butthole on this podcast.
• 15:52
  Blake: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Blake: I just did that.
• 15:55
  Blake: But uh again, the people that are mad, spirit of religiosity.
• 15:59
  Blake: Uh, you know, so I would just say that you know, that that spirit's gross.
• 16:04
  Blake: I love what you said about like, you know, do you listen to God, do you know God, and are you following Him?
• 16:11
  Blake: And so I think there's a lot of people in the church that that think they listen, think they know, think they're following, but clearly there's a lot of people in the church that don't listen, don't know, and don't aren't following because they'll they'll do things like that.
• 16:26
  Blake: That's so like the opposite of grace, and it's judgmentalism, hatred, and uh people that have left the church never to come back because of things like that that happen in the church way too regularly.
• 16:40
  Blake: So, what was it you were saying about uh that quote from Billy Graham?
• 16:44
  Mark: Oh yeah.
• 16:44
  Mark: So uh Billy Graham was once asked, you know, what do you believe the greatest mission field is out there?
• 16:50
  Mark: And he said the church.
• 16:53
  Mark: And it took the the guy that was interviewing him uh back and he said, Well, can you unpack that a little bit?
• 16:59
  Mark: And Billy Graham said, Well, if you look at the parable of the seeds in the soil that Jesus told, there's there are four different types of soil, and there was only one that was fertile that received the the seed, which would be uh, you know, translated to like the gospel and the word.
• 17:15
  Mark: And so Billy Graham's tr uh uh interpretation of that was that only 25% of the church knows Jesus.
• 17:26
  Mark: So 75% of the church does not know Jesus.
• 17:30
  Mark: And so, like if you're not serving in the church, then you're obviously not don't know Jesus.
• 17:35
  Mark: That's good numbers.
• 17:37
  Blake: Yeah, it's scary thought.
• 17:38
  Blake: It's scary thought though.
• 17:39
  Blake: Yeah, how how do you you know get around the fact that a lot of people that I talked about it on Sunday, like we we replace activity for God as intimacy with God, yeah.
• 17:52
  Blake: And a lot of people are here at the church serving all the time, but also have this like spirit of arrogance and pride.
• 18:00
  Blake: Yeah.
• 18:00
  Blake: That I know how to do this, I understand God, I understand the Bible better than about anybody, and what I see in you isn't isn't godly.
• 18:09
  Blake: And like, well, hold up, bro.
• 18:11
  Mark: Yeah, well, it's easy to get to gain uh value or feel like you're you are doing it right when you're gaining knowledge and you're doing things.
• 18:21
  Mark: Those are things that we can control.
• 18:23
  Blake: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Mark: But I think even when you just said that, it makes me think about like even my kids, like I don't I'd I'd much rather spend time with them than for them to do something for me.
• 18:33
  Mark: Right.
• 18:34
  Mark: Right.
• 18:34
  Mark: I mean, I so and I feel like that's the way our father is as well.
• 18:38
  Mark: Like, that's great.
• 18:40
  Mark: You can do stuff for me, but like I just I just want to be with you, you know.
• 18:44
  Mark: So Yeah.
• 18:47
  Blake: Yeah.
• 18:47
  Blake: So do you have you experienced, Katie, that spirit in your life, the spirit of self-righteousness?
• 18:53
  Katie: Oh, for sure.
• 18:54
  Katie: For sure.
• 18:55
  Katie: I think, you know, unfortunately, it's living very well in churches around America and all over the world.
• 19:02
  Katie: You know, we say that we want to minister to everybody and allow everybody in, but the reality is when you say that, I hope you're ready for it because you're going to get anybody and everybody.
• 19:12
  Katie: Um, and then I think people get uncomfortable.
• 19:16
  Katie: I've I had a conversation recently with somebody that was concerned about um kids coming to a youth group and and they knew their lifestyle, and I don't want that around my kids, and be like, well, I understand.
• 19:29
  Katie: However, where else would you want them to be?
• 19:32
  Katie: Like you you should want them to be in this house so that they could see and feel and know and hear and experience the love of God.
• 19:41
  Katie: Um, growing up in ministry myself, um, my parents, our family had a homeless ministry um over 20 years ago in the inner city of Atlanta.
• 19:52
  Katie: And we literally got the anybody's and everybody's.
• 19:57
  Katie: We had the homeless, we had the prostitutes, we had the transvestites, we had the drug addicts.
• 20:02
  Katie: They knew they were welcome and they knew that they would be loved.
• 20:07
  Katie: And there were rules and boundaries, you know.
• 20:09
  Katie: Uh if you had parts for a man, you use the man's restroom even if you had on a dress, you know, or like whatever.
• 20:16
  Katie: Like there was respect and rules, you couldn't practice your sinful lifestyle in in and on our property.
• 20:24
  Katie: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 20:25
  Blake: I'm sure people showed up high or drunk.
• 20:26
  Blake: Exactly.
• 20:27
  Katie: Um I I grew up watching people we talked about running to the altar earlier in a joking way, but they would come to the altar and leave their crack on the altar and walk away.
• 20:41
  Katie: You know, um I grew up.
• 20:43
  Blake: Did your dad sell that?
• 20:45
  Katie: Did you probably on top of us having a homeless ministry where everyone was welcome and loved, there were times, you know, people when you've been around homeless people, there's a smell and it's not pleasant.
• 21:01
  Katie: But I remember growing up watching my dad sit with these guys and hold them and hug them and have them weep on him and all the snot and all the things and not hesitate to grab something to wipe their face because they couldn't do it themselves.
• 21:19
  Katie: Or um, sometimes they would come to church and they would sleep in the chair and people get real uptight, you know, about people falling asleep in church and they must have been out partying all night or like whatever their opinion is, right?
• 21:33
  Katie: And but they felt safe.
• 21:35
  Katie: They felt safe to come there and um to worship and I got online those things.
• 21:42
  Blake: So yeah, I I did a little um uh checked up on Rescue Atlanta and I wanted to see it uh stalked you a little bit.
• 21:50
  Blake: And I loved it, Katie, because I saw little Katie.
• 21:52
  Blake: Uh how old were you and during during those years?
• 21:56
  Katie: Uh well we moved to Georgia when I was eight in Rescue Atlanta.
• 21:59
  Katie: I believe started probably around when I was 10.
• 22:02
  Blake: So I was gonna say you were like 12.
• 22:04
  Blake: 13, teenager.
• 22:06
  Blake: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:06
  Blake: And you were on stage singing and loving on teenagers and kids and preaching.
• 22:14
  Blake: All all the things you were heavily involved in not just a homeless ministry called Rescue Atlanta, but you was your family, your whole family was involved in this thing.
• 22:24
  Blake: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Blake: And you you got to do all kinds of preaching as well, because there was a church service, you'd feed tons of money.
• 22:32
  Katie: Yeah, we would bust them in.
• 22:33
  Katie: We had buses, big, we called them our big Jesus buses.
• 22:35
  Katie: There were multiple cover colors.
• 22:37
  Katie: It had Jesus on the side, and then it said, Jesus, come into my life.
• 22:41
  Katie: And the goal there was that as we drove through the city, people would read your bus, and all over the place of all over Atlanta, you had people saying in their cars, Jesus, come into my life.
• 22:50
  Katie: Jesus, come into my life.
• 22:51
  Katie: You know, and it was like it was a it was a witnessing tool as well.
• 22:55
  Katie: Um and we would go to all the homeless shelters, we would pick them up, bus them in.
• 22:59
  Katie: At that time, um, the city of Atlanta had a lot of projects.
• 23:04
  Katie: Um and we would go and pick up children, we'd bust, bust tons of children in, and we would feed them a big old breakfast, bacon, eggs, grits, the whole nine they could shower, go to the clothing closet, all kinds of things.
• 23:17
  Katie: And then there would be a we would transform that whole sanctuary from a cafeteria into a sanctuary, and my family would lead worship.
• 23:27
  Katie: Um and and then my husband and I for years we did the kids' ministry.
• 23:31
  Katie: We were children's pastors, youth pastors.
• 23:33
  Katie: Uh, and then later we did foreign missions as well.
• 23:35
  Blake: So yeah, so talk about that.
• 23:37
  Blake: You went to Haiti, right?
• 23:38
  Katie: Or originally um the Lord called me to foreign missions when I was 16.
• 23:42
  Katie: Um, and I did missions on my own for a while.
• 23:46
  Katie: And um, meaning I was just made connections and was um started in my dad did um ministry in Haiti in the 80s.
• 23:56
  Katie: Um I got to Haiti eventually, but I started in Africa.
• 23:59
  Katie: When I graduated high school, I went to Africa and lived with some missionaries.
• 24:02
  Katie: Where in Africa?
• 24:03
  Katie: Um at that time that was in Tanzania.
• 24:06
  Blake: Oh, yeah.
• 24:06
  Blake: Um, I climbed Kilimanjaro.
• 24:08
  Blake: I've been there.
• 24:09
  Katie: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 24:10
  Katie: And then later in life, I went back um to Kenya, is where the um primary most supportive.
• 24:16
  Blake: I've been to Kenya nine times.
• 24:18
  Katie: I love the country.
• 24:19
  Katie: It's my Africa as a whole is just um Did you go to the largest slum in the world?
• 24:24
  Katie: Absolutely.
• 24:25
  Katie: It's huge.
• 24:27
  Blake: Oh my gosh, it's right there in Kenya.
• 24:28
  Katie: Lots of ministry and outreach into the slums.
• 24:31
  Katie: Um and we I did it by myself for a while, and then um it we couldn't bring, it wasn't realistic for us to bring our people.
• 24:40
  Katie: Because when you looked out in our congregation, it was homeless and inner city families.
• 24:44
  Katie: They wouldn't have that opportunity, but they would give, they would give whatever they had in the offering um to help send people to go, help send me to go.
• 24:55
  Katie: Um we at that time I was running mission teams for other churches, churches that wanted to do missions but didn't know how, yeah, or didn't have connections.
• 25:02
  Katie: And then I would come and train and lead a team and and do and do that.
• 25:06
  Blake: That's so cool.
• 25:07
  Katie: One of the things that I thought of actually today when I was thinking about this podcast and really asking the Lord, like, God, I just I just want people to see you and all of this.
• 25:16
  Katie: Um but you know, at one church here we do relief work and our people give like crazy to um all the all the natural disasters.
• 25:27
  Katie: And one of the things where our men and women at Rescue Atlanta could serve were in those places.
• 25:32
  Katie: So after Hurricane Katrina, we would load up van full of our homeless guys and a trailer and all the equipment, and they would go and serve the people of New Orleans.
• 25:43
  Blake: I love that.
• 25:44
  Katie: And gut the houses and pull, and my dad would lead all of them, and that was the way that they that was their mission back.
• 25:51
  Katie: You know, they could serve in that way.
• 25:53
  Katie: And then they would come home and go back to the shelter or sleep on the street or whatever.
• 25:59
  Katie: Um, they genuinely, they're the most kind, incredible people.
• 26:05
  Katie: Um, I never was.
• 26:07
  Blake: It's amazing.
• 26:07
  Blake: I if you've done any homeless work, you you realize that they actually really take care of each other.
• 26:13
  Blake: They protect, they look out for each other.
• 26:15
  Blake: Oh, really?
• 26:17
  Katie: Yeah, they they took care of us as well.
• 26:19
  Katie: That's cool.
• 26:20
  Katie: We never had we never had to worry.
• 26:21
  Blake: Yeah, just seeing some of those videos, clearly your dad was a really special man, had had a really good heart and was doing some incredible care.
• 26:30
  Katie: And we watched guys, like I said, we watched them growing up doing ministry in New Orleans as well during Mardi Gras.
• 26:36
  Katie: We would be on Bourbon Street, sharing the gospel with people, carrying the cross, holding the cross, and we would see people come and just in the middle of Bourbon Street, beers in hands, beads around neck, on their knees, crying out to God because he reads it.
• 26:52
  Blake: You've literally like gone into hell and helped drag people out to know God.
• 26:58
  Blake: And it wasn't just your family, you then did that on your own, and then as you got married, just like your parents drug you along.
• 27:05
  Katie: Yeah, so my husband knew he was gonna marry into this family.
• 27:09
  Katie: This was it.
• 27:09
  Katie: Like this is, you know, you you gotta be a part of the ministry uh because he grew up Methodist.
• 27:13
  Katie: I grew up Pentecostal.
• 27:14
  Katie: Okay.
• 27:15
  Katie: That was a little wild.
• 27:15
  Katie: Wow.
• 27:17
  Blake: Yeah.
• 27:17
  Blake: So you guys all went to uh Haiti together and your kids served there, right?
• 27:24
  Katie: Yeah.
• 27:24
  Katie: So when our time of Rescue Atlanta kind of came to an end, um it really ended up releasing us as uh children, and sibling my siblings and I, releasing us in new ways in ministry.
• 27:36
  Katie: And so it released Patrick and I to be able to go to the mission field for full-time.
• 27:41
  Katie: So we served as missionary associates um under the assemblies of God.
• 27:45
  Katie: Originally we took um lots of short-term teams to Haiti.
• 27:49
  Katie: We were planning on moving there to partner with some greater mission missionaries there.
• 27:54
  Katie: And then the AG asked us if we would consider going to the Dominican Republic, which shares the same island as Haiti.
• 28:01
  Katie: Um and they there was over two, there's over two million Haitians in the Dominican Republic.
• 28:08
  Blake: Um, I've been a lot and to DR in in and Haiti, and it's unbelievable.
• 28:15
  Blake: We don't know racism in America like they know on that island.
• 28:20
  Blake: That's right.
• 28:21
  Blake: Haitians and Dominicans spit on each other, they curse each other, they'll they'll fight each other.
• 28:27
  Blake: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Blake: And I was actually a part of uh a church in Nashville called Cross Point, and we planted a Haitian church in a Dominican re uh neighborhood, and we would walk around the neighborhood holding the hand of the Haitian pastor to give clout.
• 28:44
  Blake: It was like, I I want you to see this guy.
• 28:47
  Blake: And so what I love about that, and what I love about your life, is that you've you've helped give clout to people that are forgotten, that are marginalized, that are hated your whole life.
• 28:59
  Blake: And that's why I wanted you here today.
• 29:01
  Blake: Yeah.
• 29:02
  Blake: Because I think you do that even in our church now.
• 29:04
  Blake: And she's so Katie serves on our church.
• 29:06
  Blake: She's she's a a big part of our worship team, has an incredible voice, and brings the thunder.
• 29:12
  Blake: Holy Spirit, like that little AG Pentecostal spirit comes out.
• 29:16
  Blake: I love it.
• 29:16
  Blake: And she gets going, I love that about you.
• 29:18
  Blake: But you've invited people to our church that might have gone, I don't feel welcome.
• 29:22
  Katie: I don't want to feel like in our community where people are like, We're looking for a church, but we've got tattoos or we've got gauged out ears.
• 29:29
  Katie: Would we be welcome?
• 29:30
  Katie: You know, and uh you're like, yeah, check out my arms.
• 29:32
  Katie: I know I'm daddy.
• 29:33
  Katie: I've got tattoos, both arms, I lead worship.
• 29:36
  Blake: One of those humans has pinky worship serves and kids.
• 29:39
  Katie: Yeah, you know, like you're welcome here.
• 29:40
  Katie: I'll save you a seat.
• 29:41
  Katie: Let me know when you want to go.
• 29:42
  Blake: I love that.
• 29:42
  Katie: You know, like we will we will make a way for you to be here and feel welcome and feel feel loved for sure.
• 29:49
  Blake: I love that about you, Katie.
• 29:51
  Blake: And you you exude that.
• 29:53
  Blake: Like, and it from the time I met you, it's like, yeah, I see the homeless ministry.
• 29:58
  Blake: I see you welcome every tribe, tongue, and nation, every breed of human.
• 30:02
  Blake: And um, for those that are lost and forgotten and far away from God, you you know, try to drag them out of hell and bring them, you know, to populate heaven.
• 30:10
  Blake: And so I want to talk about more about some times in your life when you have been, you you've felt the the you've been ostracized from church.
• 30:20
  Blake: You know, like because like for me, I've served in six churches, every single one of those had some kind of a moral failure.
• 30:28
  Blake: And so there was a season where I was like, I'm never gonna serve as a vocational minister again.
• 30:34
  Blake: My wife thought he'll never be a part of a vocational church again.
• 30:38
  Blake: And I was sort of serving from the outside as like a contract kind of pastor, and didn't really want to be on the inside anymore.
• 30:45
  Blake: Um, but the Lord started saying to me, if not you, then who?
• 30:49
  Blake: Right?
• 30:50
  Blake: Who's gonna help battle against that religious spirit that's inside the church?
• 30:54
  Blake: And who's gonna you've seen all the things what not to do?
• 30:56
  Blake: And sometimes in in our lives, you learn the hard way of things that you like, I don't want to do that, right?
• 31:03
  Blake: And I saw a lot of that, some immoral failures, you know, infidelity, um uh tax evasion, like uh taking money from the church, all the ugly stories you hear about.
• 31:17
  Blake: I got to see it firsthand.
• 31:18
  Blake: I was like, can we be a church that's just like as honest and sincere and kind and actually like people?
• 31:25
  Blake: Right?
• 31:25
  Blake: Yeah, actually is sincere about like you can look at our finances.
• 31:30
  Blake: We're open-handed with the way we steward everything here.
• 31:33
  Blake: And can we be honest about like we're not a perfect church, but we're trying our hardest to make it a place where people really do feel welcome and it's like raw and honest about that.
• 31:43
  Blake: Um and so you know, something we say a lot is that you can belong before you believe or behave.
• 31:50
  Blake: And I think that's like the antithesis of what the religious spirit does, right?
• 31:56
  Blake: The religious spirit says, if you believe and if you behave, well then we'll consider after you know years, maybe you'll belong.
• 32:02
  Blake: You know what I mean?
• 32:03
  Blake: And uh that's kind of gross to me because Jesus, you know, stops Zacchaeus, come down.
• 32:09
  Blake: Or like there's so many stories of a the woman that touches this tassel bleeding for 12 years, right?
• 32:16
  Blake: And like power came out of him, he's surrounded by people who just touched me.
• 32:19
  Blake: And Peter's like, Well, bro, what are you talking about?
• 32:21
  Blake: He's surrounded by everybody.
• 32:23
  Blake: Uh but over and over, you know, Jesus stops.
• 32:26
  Blake: He stops, he sees them, and he engages, right?
• 32:29
  Blake: And so that's what it looks like to to listen to God, to know him, and to follow him.
• 32:35
  Blake: So um, when that's not the case, when you're not listening to the Holy Spirit and you're just kind of doing it on your own power and your own, you get things all messed up.
• 32:45
  Blake: You go with the wrong order, like you said.
• 32:47
  Blake: You know, you you and you mess up ministry and people leave the church.
• 32:51
  Blake: They want nothing to do with organized religion anymore.
• 32:54
  Blake: They want nothing to do with, you know, and they'll walk away because people are walking in sin, they're walking in darkness, and and church leaders, like you just said, people in the church that are, you know, God-fearing people often do the most damage.
• 33:09
  Blake: Yeah.
• 33:09
  Blake: And so I I voiced the the statement that I I say a lot.
• 33:14
  Blake: Um, I think it was Gandhi that said, I I love your Christ.
• 33:18
  Blake: What do you say?
• 33:19
  Blake: But I don't look, I don't look you're like you're Christians.
• 33:21
  Blake: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:22
  Blake: I would be a Christian if it weren't for Jesus.
• 33:26
  Blake: You know, yeah.
• 33:27
  Blake: I know professional podcasts can go, can you pull that up?
• 33:29
  Blake: Should I put it right here?
• 33:30
  Blake: What is it?
• 33:31
  Blake: We can't fact check.
• 33:32
  Blake: We can't do it.
• 33:33
  Blake: Yeah, you can figure that out, but I think there's something to that.
• 33:38
  Blake: And you said 25% of the church actually know God.
• 33:43
  Blake: And so it makes me want to come after this religious spirit inside the church more than ever.
• 33:49
  Blake: It's like we can't we can't let people in our doors come here and not know him.
• 33:55
  Blake: And so I asked a question that's pretty harsh, is like, have you ever led one person to Christ?
• 33:59
  Blake: Have you ever like loved enough that you're like, I have a friend going to hell?
• 34:03
  Blake: I have a neighbor that's going to hell.
• 34:05
  Blake: I know there are, but I have never told them about Jesus.
• 34:07
  Blake: And like, what are we doing?
• 34:09
  Blake: What are we doing?
• 34:09
  Blake: Right.
• 34:09
  Blake: And I asked the question if you've never caught a fish, can you really call yourself a fisherman?
• 34:15
  Blake: Right?
• 34:15
  Blake: And I think it's a valid thought to go, you know, well, have I?
• 34:19
  Blake: Have I ever told anyone about Christ?
• 34:22
  Katie: I think people get afraid of it in some ways, though, because they think there's a special formula.
• 34:26
  Katie: It's kind of like praying out loud.
• 34:28
  Katie: You know, everyone's like, I don't want to pray out loud, I'm gonna mess it up.
• 34:30
  Katie: It's like, no, you're not gonna mess it up, you're just talking to Jesus.
• 34:33
  Katie: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Katie: You know, it's like there's no say this first, say this second, say this third.
• 34:37
  Katie: It's like, no, hey, I know this man who changed my life and in my and and it and I'm a better person because of it, and I want you to know him the way that I know him.
• 34:47
  Katie: Um, you know, and I think sometimes we get so caught up in that religious spirit of it has to be this type of person, it has to be an elder.
• 34:55
  Katie: Yeah, it has to be an elder of the church, has to be a whatever.
• 34:59
  Katie: It's like no, it you know, sometimes it's the person who isn't even necessarily walking with Jesus as closely as they should in that moment that you see Jesus in.
• 35:11
  Katie: Because he actually doesn't need us.
• 35:13
  Blake: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Katie: You know, he doesn't need us.
• 35:15
  Katie: Um, but he chooses to partner with us so that other people would know him.
• 35:19
  Katie: There's people that I can touch that you can't, and people that you can touch that I can't.
• 35:23
  Katie: And simply by having tattoos, there's people that are gonna want to talk to me be or be more willing to talk to me because of that, like, okay, well, she's not gonna touch me, or whatever the situation is, right?
• 35:33
  Katie: So I think we have to get out of our head on when we're challenging people, like and we're asking our church, like, have you shared Jesus with somebody?
• 35:40
  Katie: Have you led somebody to the Lord?
• 35:42
  Katie: Um, that it's okay if you don't know how to do it.
• 35:44
  Katie: You can literally be like, hey, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 35:47
  Katie: Yeah, but I want to pray with you so that you know him the way I know him.
• 35:51
  Katie: And that's all that's all he wants from us.
• 35:53
  Blake: That's so good.
• 35:54
  Blake: Yeah, I those three words, Jesus changed me.
• 35:58
  Blake: Just say that, testify.
• 36:00
  Blake: You know, it starts there and then and then you just go, Well, how?
• 36:03
  Blake: What did he do?
• 36:04
  Blake: And then just tell your story.
• 36:05
  Mark: I mean, yeah, I agree.
• 36:06
  Mark: I mean, that's the the convicting the challenge that you put out there, like how when's the last time?
• 36:12
  Blake: I mean, that's but then I challenge our staff this Tuesday.
• 36:14
  Blake: No, and I know and I was like, bro, have you brought one person to Christ yourself, Mark?
• 36:18
  Blake: Right.
• 36:19
  Mark: And I'm gonna say confession, no.
• 36:21
  Mark: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Mark: Lately, yes, in my life, yes.
• 36:24
  Mark: But there have been seasons where it was like I did not leave a restaurant without saying, hey, if you died tonight, would do you know where you'd spend eternity?
• 36:35
  Mark: You know, like that's that was like forefront of my mind.
• 36:38
  Mark: But I'll I'm gonna be honest, like lately it has not been the question that I'm asking.
• 36:43
  Blake: So it's been a challenge that I probably am guilty of doing more inviting to church.
• 36:49
  Mark: Right than to Jesus.
• 36:50
  Mark: Yeah.
• 36:51
  Mark: Well, that's that's kind of a little less invasive, you know.
• 36:54
  Mark: That's a little easier to ask.
• 36:56
  Mark: Not wrong, you know.
• 36:57
  Mark: But I I think to me also it's maybe I used to force it, like every conversation it was like, I gotta hand this track out with my tip, I gotta fold up the money.
• 37:08
  Blake: Well, you were raised Baptist, so you just that's the way you do it.
• 37:11
  Blake: That's just the formula.
• 37:13
  Mark: Yeah.
• 37:14
  Mark: But I think more it's important that I think that challenge was great, but um it I feel like the enemy can kind of push you in that direction too, of saying, hey, you're gonna do these things, you know, like do these things, and if it doesn't you don't, then it don't count, you know.
• 37:31
  Mark: But I feel like a bigger piece of it is like if if you feel like Holy Spirit is telling you to talk to that guy in the elevator behind you, then you need to do that, you know.
• 37:40
  Mark: And if if it is, it doesn't make any sense to ask, does she have a church?
• 37:45
  Mark: Like, why like I'm buying pants, like why would I ask that?
• 37:47
  Mark: Yeah.
• 37:48
  Mark: But if if you feel that pressing and prompting, then you need I need to do that, you know.
• 37:53
  Blake: Well, I'm gonna push back a little bit, Mart.
• 37:55
  Blake: Okay.
• 37:56
  Blake: On you.
• 37:57
  Blake: Okay.
• 37:57
  Blake: Because um I have watched you recently step into listening, knowing, and following because you've started this TikTok.
• 38:07
  Blake: You don't ever talk about it.
• 38:09
  Blake: I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about it.
• 38:11
  Blake: You decided to start singing scripture.
• 38:13
  Blake: That's what it's called.
• 38:14
  Blake: Sing scripture.
• 38:15
  Blake: And so if you look up Mark on TikTok, just look up Sing Scripture, and every single day, I don't know, maybe three or four times a week, you'll just sit down with your Bible and sit down with a guitar, and all you do is sing the word of God.
• 38:29
  Blake: I'm really proud of you for doing that because you're putting yourself out there and and you're letting the world know, hey, I want to teach you the word.
• 38:35
  Blake: Hopefully it'll be buried in your heart by singing these words and learning this song.
• 38:39
  Blake: And you so you just create songs all the time.
• 38:42
  Blake: And I love I love the heart of that is like songs coming out of you, and not only that, it's evangelistic, you're reaching out to the lost and trying to get, you know, in a in a place where you know the word of God might not be accepted on TikTok, and especially singing the word of God.
• 38:58
  Blake: Um, and so I'm I'm proud of you for putting yourself out there.
• 39:01
  Mark: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that.
• 39:02
  Mark: And uh like it's not for me.
• 39:05
  Mark: Yeah, it is for me.
• 39:06
  Mark: It's more, it's not necessarily for the world, but I thought I was convicted of like I've been a follower of Jesus again, grew up in church, got saved every Sunday, you know.
• 39:16
  Mark: Um, and how much scripture have I memorized?
• 39:19
  Mark: Like it's it's embarrassing, you know.
• 39:21
  Mark: And so um I was convicted to start writing, there are not even songs, they're jingles, I feel like, you know, um, of scripture.
• 39:31
  Mark: Um, but just for me to hide his word in my heart, you know.
• 39:36
  Mark: Um so but what's funny is like when I see maybe a hundred or two hundred or maybe a thousand views on something, I'm like, Lord, please let that seed be planted deep in soil, you know, and let it sprout up.
• 39:48
  Mark: Um but I think that's uh the uh the challenge for me, um, even of this last week, even at staff meeting, is being bold, you know, in in my faith.
• 40:01
  Mark: And if if I've got the greatest news in the world, like how am I not just how is that not the the conversation starter everywhere I go, you know?
• 40:11
  Mark: Um so and but I think for me, like how do you do that and not be odd for God?
• 40:18
  Blake: You know, odd for God.
• 40:20
  Blake: That's a good I for Mark Brown, yep.
• 40:23
  Blake: That's you.
• 40:25
  Blake: I'm just kidding.
• 40:26
  Blake: But no, really, how do you how do you do it and not make people feel embarrassed or weird or judged?
• 40:32
  Mark: Right.
• 40:32
  Mark: Yeah.
• 40:32
  Mark: But your example in the store that day, like that seemed like such a a sweet conversation, you know, with this young lady that it new to town and just hey, you got you going to church anywhere?
• 40:44
  Mark: Yeah.
• 40:45
  Mark: So um I don't know.
• 40:47
  Mark: I I I think that's probably uh an obstacle, I feel like, for I want to share Jesus, but I just don't know how to do it.
• 40:55
  Mark: Like what like what would you what would you suggest?
• 40:58
  Mark: Like what what are some pickup lines for Jesus?
• 41:02
  Mark: Pickup line.
• 41:03
  Blake: What are we talking about?
• 41:04
  Blake: Strike that.
• 41:04
  Blake: No, but I think I it's a good question.
• 41:08
  Blake: Like what what are you starting with?
• 41:09
  Blake: I think at Goodwin's, but how can I pray for you?
• 41:11
  Katie: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:12
  Blake: Is there something on your heart we could pray?
• 41:13
  Blake: Pray for you seem heavy.
• 41:15
  Blake: You know what I mean?
• 41:16
  Katie: You just have no idea what people are walking through.
• 41:19
  Katie: I think um that people in general have been desensitized to the reality of what hell really is.
• 41:26
  Katie: Um it you know, you grow up through the hellfire brimstone era of life, you know, 80s, 90s kind of thing.
• 41:33
  Katie: And you you almost get desensitized, right?
• 41:35
  Katie: It's like the left behind series, the rap being raptured out of, you know, all these things where it was kind of like fear-based, but then we're now we're to this place where it's like, oh, hell might not be too bad.
• 41:47
  Katie: I don't want to act right, so I'm good.
• 41:49
  Katie: When the reality is, I think people have lost the fact that like hell is real and it's a real place.
• 41:55
  Katie: And it talks about not a never-ending torturing of hell.
• 42:00
  Katie: And I think when we get a hold of that as believers to the point that we don't want anyone to experience that reality, um, then it doesn't matter if it's weird.
• 42:11
  Katie: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 42:11
  Blake: Well, I talked about on Sunday, which is terrifying, that Jesus said, Um, many will prophesy in my name, they'll move mountains, you know, do great things for the kingdom of God.
• 42:21
  Blake: They'll even call on his name.
• 42:23
  Blake: And yet he will say, I verily, verily I say unto thee, depart from me.
• 42:29
  Blake: I never, never people that said, Lord, Lord, that's terrifying.
• 42:33
  Blake: Yes.
• 42:33
  Blake: Right.
• 42:34
  Katie: And so I think we should that's worship leaders, that's preachers, that's teachers.
• 42:39
  Blake: Oh man.
• 42:39
  Katie: That's a lot of people who you know, that's every that can be anybody.
• 42:44
  Katie: And I think sometimes we also disconnect from that.
• 42:46
  Katie: You know, we don't think that that could be anybody.
• 42:49
  Blake: So just because you're good does not mean you're saved.
• 42:52
  Blake: That's right.
• 42:52
  Blake: Right.
• 42:53
  Blake: And so there's a lot of good people going to hell that do think they're doing the right thing, but they don't they're not, they're replacing activity for God as knowing and being with God.
• 43:06
  Blake: And so I I think that's something we really need to talk about as a church.
• 43:09
  Blake: We gotta get that right and make sure that you know.
• 43:12
  Blake: You know that you know that you know.
• 43:13
  Blake: And so you're right, there's like so much religiosity in the world that you you'll hear in the back of your voice, I got a question for you.
• 43:22
  Blake: Do you know today that you're saved?
• 43:24
  Blake: Do you're going to heaven?
• 43:25
  Blake: Are you certain of that?
• 43:26
  Blake: And you hear it kind of like the Baptist or I'm no no offense of the Baptist spirit.
• 43:30
  Blake: It's really just the religious spirit.
• 43:32
  Mark: Okay.
• 43:32
  Blake: Uh, and it's just that that, like, well, I don't want to sound like that.
• 43:35
  Blake: Do you know that you're saved?
• 43:36
  Blake: Do you have you know Jesus?
• 43:38
  Blake: Do you know that you know Jesus?
• 43:39
  Blake: And so these questions that almost feel ruined, right?
• 43:43
  Blake: Because because they've been overused by the spirit of religiosity that you don't want to do that.
• 43:49
  Blake: And so how do you how do you kind of you your you said pickup line, I think that's hilarious.
• 43:53
  Blake: But the truth is, how do you engage in spiritual conversation?
• 43:57
  Blake: And I think the world's hungry for it.
• 43:59
  Katie: Yes.
• 43:59
  Katie: Well and with the way that I grew up, I remember when I went into public school and middle school, and people would say, Don't sit next to her, she's gonna tell you about Jesus.
• 44:08
  Katie: Right.
• 44:09
  Katie: Even saying the word Jesus.
• 44:10
  Katie: Be careful, she's gonna tell.
• 44:12
  Katie: But you know what?
• 44:13
  Katie: I was just like, yeah, because I because I because I care about your life.
• 44:16
  Katie: That's right.
• 44:17
  Katie: We do.
• 44:18
  Katie: We have to get over ourselves in some way.
• 44:20
  Katie: Say it.
• 44:21
  Blake: Say it for the people in the back, Katie.
• 44:23
  Blake: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:24
  Katie: And and it's like I I would rather be weird and awkward and you be like, okay, I'm never talking to that girl again if I just had one opportunity.
• 44:32
  Blake: There's something to that.
• 44:33
  Blake: The pride and arrogance of your own reputation management keeps you from stepping into the darkness and sin of other people's lives.
• 44:42
  Blake: And we have to go, I don't care what you think of me.
• 44:45
  Blake: I know what that eternity hangs in the balance for you.
• 44:49
  Blake: Yeah.
• 44:49
  Blake: And I have to step into this out of obedience.
• 44:51
  Blake: And you might never talk to me again.
• 44:53
  Blake: But it's worth it.
• 44:54
  Blake: It's worth it because I've only got four seconds here on earth.
• 44:58
  Blake: Our life is but a breath.
• 44:59
  Blake: Right.
• 45:00
  Blake: And so the urgency of our life matters.
• 45:05
  Blake: And if you don't have any sense of urgency, like tomorrow might never come.
• 45:09
  Blake: That's right.
• 45:10
  Blake: Then then you might blaze through life and never get down to actually doing the will of God, like listening to his voice, right?
• 45:17
  Blake: Knowing that you know him and then following him.
• 45:19
  Blake: And that's it.
• 45:20
  Blake: Jesus said, that's what my sheep will do.
• 45:22
  Blake: And so I think it really does come down to that.
• 45:25
  Blake: Listen, no, follow.
• 45:28
  Katie: We've experienced that in our ministry in our homeless ministry.
• 45:31
  Katie: We never, there was never a time where we didn't have an invitation to Christ, never a time that we left people without without asking them if they know Jesus.
• 45:41
  Katie: Because the reality was when we drove them back to the streets, when we drove them back to the projects, we never knew if that was the last time we would see them again.
• 45:51
  Blake: It was a very real reality in homeless ministry.
• 45:53
  Katie: Would they freeze to death on the streets at night in the winter?
• 45:56
  Katie: Would they go in an overdose?
• 45:57
  Katie: Would they be ro like whatever it was?
• 45:59
  Katie: Would our kids would we ever see them again?
• 46:02
  Katie: We just never knew.
• 46:04
  Katie: I learned at a very early age, I just wasn't willing to take the risk of letting them go without them knowing how much Jesus loved them.
• 46:12
  Blake: Come on, Katie.
• 46:13
  Blake: I love that about you.
• 46:15
  Blake: And uh grateful to have someone like you around here showing people what um the church is supposed to look like and how we can love deeper and better and engage.
• 46:27
  Blake: So, man, I feel convicted um that I I want to get better at that and more engaged with the Holy Spirit.
• 46:35
  Blake: And uh yeah, anything you want to add, Mark?
• 46:39
  Mark: Yeah, I I was just thinking when in this conversation, just uh sometimes it's easier to go across the world than to go across the street.
• 46:46
  Mark: That's so true.
• 46:48
  Mark: Um and I maybe it's because there's a little bit of accountability in that, you know.
• 46:54
  Mark: Um but it's I've been convicted this week for sure by your message and by staff meeting um this week of just I need to be sharing more.
• 47:06
  Blake: If you know me, then go and show me.
• 47:10
  Blake: Like if you if you really are in intimacy with God and He's given you the hope and the joy and the peace and the love, all the things that we get when we receive the Holy Spirit, then why would you keep that to yourself?
• 47:21
  Blake: Man, why would you keep that in when we have the awesome opportunity to make him known?
• 47:28
  Blake: So if you know him, make him known.
• 47:30
  Blake: That's like that it should just flow through you that I I want to, I have to, I can't not, right?
• 47:36
  Blake: And so that's my challenge today is like know God, go make him known.
• 47:42
  Blake: I think that's a that's a you know a worthy cause every single day of the week, um not just on Sundays, right?
• 47:48
  Blake: And so our church has done a great job at that.
• 47:52
  Blake: I don't want to just beat them up.
• 47:54
  Blake: Our church has exploded, right?
• 47:56
  Blake: It's grown enormously.
• 47:57
  Blake: You know why?
• 47:58
  Blake: Because somebody's talking about it.
• 48:00
  Blake: Somebody's going out and saying, hey, I I want you to hear what's happened to me, my my family, my we got involved in a church, my kids know them better, my kids were baptized, right?
• 48:09
  Blake: My then my kids went to camp.
• 48:10
  Blake: And there's so many incredible stories of life change in our church walls.
• 48:15
  Blake: That's the evidence of God's hand and his work and the Holy Spirit moving.
• 48:19
  Blake: And so I don't want to totally just punch everybody in the face that is a part of our church body that are doing it, that are out there in the you know, streets and the byways and dragging people out of the you know the gates of hell and bringing them to church and seeing them give their life to Christ.
• 48:34
  Blake: There's a lot of that happening here, and I praise God for that.
• 48:36
  Blake: But we can never take it for granted.
• 48:38
  Blake: You know, we can never be like get lazy or you know, because there should be an urgency to our life every single day that people don't know him, so how are we gonna make him known?
• 48:46
  Blake: So there's a challenge.
• 48:48
  Blake: So everybody that came today and joined in, it's an honor to have you.
• 48:52
  Blake: Thanks for being a part of B1 podcast.
• 48:54
  Blake: Thanks for helping us go out into the world and be the bright light in a place that's very dark and there's so much despair.
• 49:03
  Blake: I don't ever want to let off the gas in helping people understand who the Lord is.
• 49:07
  Blake: So thanks for joining us with us and being a part of doing that, being a part on being on mission for God and helping make Him known.
• 49:14
  Blake: We love you.