Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Flow A.I. Agents Will Onboard Millions🟢INTERVIEW

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Flow A.I. Agents Will Onboard Millions🟢INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:05
Speaker 1: Today, let's dive into a blockchain that you've probably heard
0:08
Speaker 1: about a lot, but it may be the one that
0:11
Speaker 1: is the most underrated in AI. You don't want to
0:13
Speaker 1: miss it. My name is Paul Bahre. Welcome back in
0:15
Speaker 1: the tech path. Let's get cooking here today. And I
0:17
Speaker 1: do want to think our sponsor and that is I
0:19
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0:32
Speaker 1: things building it in. Today we're going to be talking
0:34
Speaker 1: to the Flow team and Flow is on here as
0:37
Speaker 1: well to dive into. So all of that available right
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Speaker 1: out and hopefully it works out for you guys. In
0:53
Speaker 1: terms of a CRYPTOIRA, I want to bring in Matt Nophi,
0:57
Speaker 1: who is the senior community manager at Flow. Great to
1:01
Speaker 1: meet you, Matt, Thanks for coming in.
1:03
Speaker 2: Hey, Paul, Yeah, thanks for having me.
1:05
Speaker 1: Excellent. So we follow you on x We're always on
1:09
Speaker 1: the edge of our seat watching what the Flow community
1:11
Speaker 1: is up to, and we're big fans. We of course
1:14
Speaker 1: do a lot of analysis on Flow, and I want
1:17
Speaker 1: to just dive into a handful of questions and really
1:20
Speaker 1: kind of where we see the future of a lot
1:22
Speaker 1: of what's happening in crypto going and that is gearing
1:25
Speaker 1: into AI and the use of AI, whether it's agents,
1:28
Speaker 1: things of that nature. So we want to get a
1:30
Speaker 1: full breakdown before we get started for many I want
1:33
Speaker 1: to kind of frame this up for people who maybe
1:36
Speaker 1: are watching for the first time and they've just heard
1:38
Speaker 1: about Flow, let's get into the TVL. This has been
1:42
Speaker 1: growing quite some for quite some time, and it's really
1:44
Speaker 1: starting to come to an advance right here. Made a
1:48
Speaker 1: lot of moves even in the last bull run, and
1:50
Speaker 1: now we've started to really see I think maybe a
1:53
Speaker 1: breakout on this. Do you feel like this is something
1:56
Speaker 1: that is still just the beginning for Flow? What is
1:59
Speaker 1: the current status?
2:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, Paul, that's a really interesting way to frame it,
2:02
Speaker 2: like being just the beginning, because I think in crypto timelines,
2:05
Speaker 2: saying that a blockchain has been around for four years.
2:07
Speaker 2: That is just in the beginning. It seems almost incomprehensible, right,
2:11
Speaker 2: but that is a reality, and actually in the large
2:14
Speaker 2: scale technology that's not that unheard of, right, And I
2:17
Speaker 2: think that with our recent well we're calling the Crescendo
2:20
Speaker 2: upgrade that happened in September, and you can you probably
2:22
Speaker 2: see you from looking at Charter in Defai Lama, something
2:24
Speaker 2: must have happened in September. Yeah, yeah, that upgrade represented
2:28
Speaker 2: really the culmination of the four years of initial work
2:31
Speaker 2: where now the native programming language Cadence has reached maturity.
2:35
Speaker 2: It will always be backwards compatible. So it's a last
2:37
Speaker 2: breaking change, which is a big deal for anybody who
2:40
Speaker 2: wants to build a business or build an immutable contract
2:43
Speaker 2: our network. And also it incorporated EVM equivalents, which accomplished
2:48
Speaker 2: really a big goal where Flowhead had. Really it was great.
2:52
Speaker 2: It was almost like a Apple and since the app
2:54
Speaker 2: store where the kind of closed walled garden, but it
2:56
Speaker 2: wasn't really connected to broader web. Three EVM equivalents just built.
3:00
Speaker 2: It's that like seamless bridge and we've started to see
3:02
Speaker 2: the results as you can see.
3:04
Speaker 1: You so and to your point right there, here's a
3:07
Speaker 1: chart right here from flip side showing daily active wallets
3:11
Speaker 1: including EVM and and K. It's kind of building in there.
3:13
Speaker 1: And then if you look at accounts created over time,
3:16
Speaker 1: do you feel like this is a scenario that devs
3:19
Speaker 1: are starting to really understand what's happening. It's catching on,
3:23
Speaker 1: and they're they're potentially Okay, let's get moving and Flow
3:27
Speaker 1: as the platform we want to build on.
3:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that was one of our main
3:30
Speaker 2: audiences that we wanted to connect with with our EVM
3:32
Speaker 2: equivalents was developers, you know, because I think the problem
3:35
Speaker 2: was for a long time, developers would would say Flow, Wow,
3:38
Speaker 2: you guys have NBA, NFL, Disney. That's so interesting. I
3:41
Speaker 2: want to build network. How can I do that? And
3:43
Speaker 2: we say, oh, well, you have to learn this native
3:45
Speaker 2: programming language called Cadence, and they go, ah, I've already
3:48
Speaker 2: spent so much time learning Solidity, I don't want to
3:49
Speaker 2: learn another one. And so so yeah, we you know,
3:52
Speaker 2: we spent the past year going around to all the
3:54
Speaker 2: eight global hackathons, which is the first time Flow had
3:58
Speaker 2: been at an eath hackathon since twenty seventeen, when crypto
4:02
Speaker 2: Kitties launched and the response from developers was incredible. We
4:05
Speaker 2: were the number one layer one hacked on at eth Global,
4:08
Speaker 2: so so on credible dev participation and so yeah, I
4:11
Speaker 2: mean it's it is a good feeling to think that
4:13
Speaker 2: the thesis of EVM equivalents would attract developers. To see
4:16
Speaker 2: that play out in real time, it was really cool. Well,
4:19
Speaker 2: this is.
4:19
Speaker 1: Still somewhat new, so I mean the possibility here to
4:22
Speaker 1: still try to recruit and somewhat be a little bit
4:26
Speaker 1: cannibalistic in terms of blockchain devs. Are you looking at
4:30
Speaker 1: attending like eth Denver and some of those platforms where
4:34
Speaker 1: you would see a lot of developers.
4:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be at eath Denver on just a couple
4:39
Speaker 2: of short months. We're gonna have a booth there, we'll
4:41
Speaker 2: be a bit a week, have a hacker house, a
4:44
Speaker 2: lot of ways for developers to interact with us, and
4:46
Speaker 2: we'll be doubling down on ETH Global. We really think
4:48
Speaker 2: it's a great organization and so we'll be at a
4:50
Speaker 2: lot of their hackathons through the maino of the year.
4:52
Speaker 2: We actually have an eight Global AI Agent hackathon we're
4:55
Speaker 2: participating in at the end of this month.
4:57
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, well don't build that they'll spoil the
4:59
Speaker 1: up episode because we're going to get in of course,
5:03
Speaker 1: So let's go into that. I just want to kind
5:05
Speaker 1: of follow along with the EVM. You know, you look
5:07
Speaker 1: at EVM now in comparison to some of the other
5:11
Speaker 1: chains that are out there. What really makes flows EVM
5:14
Speaker 1: different than others? Is there something that you guys are
5:17
Speaker 1: really focusing on.
5:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think the idea either there's a
5:22
Speaker 2: lot of chatter that you have to specialize as a blockchain.
5:25
Speaker 2: In order to be able to compete and be effective,
5:27
Speaker 2: you have to really focus on on one area, one category.
5:31
Speaker 2: And it may seem counterintuitive for Flow to say it's
5:34
Speaker 2: you know, Flow is really good at doing a lot
5:35
Speaker 2: of stuff, but it truly is, and that's why it
5:38
Speaker 2: took so long to build. And now that it's come
5:41
Speaker 2: to fruition, I think we see with the layer twos,
5:45
Speaker 2: they essentially came to the similar conclusion that the Flow
5:48
Speaker 2: developers came to in the beginning, right that we need
5:50
Speaker 2: to separate consensus and compute, because right now layer twos
5:54
Speaker 2: they they handle the compute while the layer one handles
5:57
Speaker 2: the security of the consensus. Does that on one blockchain
6:01
Speaker 2: makes it really scalable efficient, gas is almost negligible, inexpensive,
6:07
Speaker 2: and so I think we compete in a lot of
6:08
Speaker 2: areas versus other EVM environments.
6:12
Speaker 1: So building on flow versus other L two's other evms,
6:16
Speaker 1: is that something that you feel even with Base to
6:19
Speaker 1: a certain extent, there's a lot of people that are
6:21
Speaker 1: still starting to look at that platform as a potential.
6:25
Speaker 1: What would be the number one takeaway, you know for
6:28
Speaker 1: a dev that's coming in. Outside of yes, there's a
6:31
Speaker 1: lot of engagement. I would say, you guys are probably
6:33
Speaker 1: the chain for onboarding. If you think about real retail
6:37
Speaker 1: use case Flow being the chain that has done. Do
6:41
Speaker 1: you feel like that because of the use case and
6:43
Speaker 1: the examples, that that's the draw that brings them in.
6:47
Speaker 2: I certainly think that can be a big draw, right,
6:50
Speaker 2: is that? Yeah, you can build on the same chain
6:52
Speaker 2: that some of the world's greatest ips have chosen to
6:55
Speaker 2: make their home one hundred percent, and I think it
6:59
Speaker 2: it hasn't really been appreciated yet the effect of what
7:02
Speaker 2: that means. Right, if I'm going to start a business
7:05
Speaker 2: I can make I can use the on chain intellectual
7:08
Speaker 2: property of some of these the world's biggest ips to
7:11
Speaker 2: build on top of. That's the power of being unchained.
7:13
Speaker 2: It's composable, right, I can build it. I can build
7:16
Speaker 2: a sports prediction app using NBA top Shot moments like
7:20
Speaker 2: and that is you know, the cold start problem for
7:23
Speaker 2: a new business. How can I gain users? Just put
7:26
Speaker 2: out a tweet and say, hey, top shot users, you
7:29
Speaker 2: get a free X account by holding a top shot.
7:32
Speaker 2: That I think is a value that has yet to
7:34
Speaker 2: be unlocked, but hopefully we'll see uh soon.
7:36
Speaker 1: Well, we've seen that mastered pretty well with air drops,
7:40
Speaker 1: you know, with different projects out there. We've seen it
7:42
Speaker 1: now in major brands. Obviously, we saw the partnership with
7:45
Speaker 1: McDonald's and Doodles. We've seen the partnerships now with what
7:49
Speaker 1: Solana has been able to do with their second generation cryptophone,
7:53
Speaker 1: the Seeker, with the potential of air drops coming in.
7:57
Speaker 1: So I think people are starting to get it and
8:00
Speaker 1: understand how it potentially works out. What about unicewap support.
8:05
Speaker 1: Is there a plan for UNI swap support in the future.
8:09
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I don't know of any immediate
8:12
Speaker 2: plans to have UNI swap, you know, incorporate flow as
8:16
Speaker 2: an EVM environment now, luckily, with full EVM equivalents, it
8:19
Speaker 2: can easily be done. If the UNI Swamp Foundation decides, hey,
8:22
Speaker 2: you want to incorporate flow, it's just a flip of
8:24
Speaker 2: a switch. And I can't stress enough that it's not,
8:28
Speaker 2: you know, EVM compatible, it's EVAM equivalent. That means no
8:32
Speaker 2: code changes. It is the exact mirror of eth L one.
8:37
Speaker 2: So if UNI Swamp Foundation did decided to be very easy.
8:40
Speaker 1: To do magic eating integration, the potential here how long
8:43
Speaker 1: before we would see something like that, whether it's magic
8:46
Speaker 1: eating blur, there's a lot out there that potentially we
8:49
Speaker 1: should see integration.
8:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of big name existing EVM marketplaces,
8:54
Speaker 2: and that's one of the beauties of VM equivalents is
8:57
Speaker 2: that I think you'll start to see some of those
8:59
Speaker 2: larger plot forms, maybe some of the world's biggest NFT
9:01
Speaker 2: marketplaces roll out in short order where you can buy
9:04
Speaker 2: and sell flow NFTs on there. So really excited to
9:07
Speaker 2: see that come to market.
9:09
Speaker 1: All right, So that's good good news there. If we
9:12
Speaker 1: saw flow integrate, let me kind of zoom in on that.
9:14
Speaker 1: If you saw flow integrate into something like one of
9:17
Speaker 1: the top layers, I mean the likelihood is, I mean,
9:20
Speaker 1: because you guys are already in top ten right now,
9:23
Speaker 1: so it's very possible that Flow could immediately maybe even
9:26
Speaker 1: flip Mythos chain in terms of overall sales just by
9:31
Speaker 1: integration into one of these major platforms. What are your thoughts?
9:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I can't speak to Magic
9:37
Speaker 2: eat In or open Sea specifically, but yeah, that would
9:41
Speaker 2: be the general idea is imagine you have these hardcore
9:44
Speaker 2: users of something like NBA top Shot. We've traditionally only
9:47
Speaker 2: had access to liquidity on Flow's native blockchain. Imagine now
9:51
Speaker 2: that they can get access to the entire EVML one
9:55
Speaker 2: liquidity and what that means. I mean, I think that's
9:57
Speaker 2: going to have pretty big effects.
10:00
Speaker 1: Anthem is one of the wallets that of course was
10:02
Speaker 1: native primarily to Salona starting to do crossover. We're seeing
10:06
Speaker 1: that now. Is that an opportunity that you think could
10:10
Speaker 1: could happen as well in twenty twenty five?
10:12
Speaker 2: I mean I certainly would would not see a reason
10:15
Speaker 2: why not. I don't mean to sound like a broken record,
10:18
Speaker 2: but that is yeah. I mean really it's a beauty
10:22
Speaker 2: VVM equivalents, you know, any any existing infrastructure, you know,
10:25
Speaker 2: platform product that exists on the VM can absolutely be
10:28
Speaker 2: added to Flow. Now kind of chicken to the egg,
10:31
Speaker 2: which comes first? Do you see you know? And be
10:33
Speaker 2: a top shot moments lists on a major NFT marketplace,
10:35
Speaker 2: and then wallets go oh wow, you know I want
10:38
Speaker 2: to see that? Hi? Then yes, the answer is yes, everybody.
10:42
Speaker 1: Wants to know about AI agent's obviously virtuals protocol. When
10:46
Speaker 1: we've been talking about for a while here, that's more
10:48
Speaker 1: of a base product.
10:50
Speaker 2: There are a.
10:50
Speaker 1: Handful of platforms out there. Fixes. A good example is
10:54
Speaker 1: one that we continue to kind of watch, which could
10:57
Speaker 1: end up being one that's a highly connected here into
11:01
Speaker 1: the Flow ecosystem. Explain a little bit about that and
11:04
Speaker 1: what you think AI agents are going to look like
11:06
Speaker 1: within Flow in the future.
11:08
Speaker 2: I'm sure like everybody else, I'm very excited about the
11:11
Speaker 2: future of AI agents and specifically on Flow. So fix
11:15
Speaker 2: his world. What you just highlighted there as a product
11:17
Speaker 2: ran by somebody on our developer relations team, it seems Bohao.
11:21
Speaker 2: So he runs our Apac region for developer relations. He
11:25
Speaker 2: has been attending all the AI sixteen Eliza meetups locally
11:29
Speaker 2: in his region. He's really kind of dived into that
11:31
Speaker 2: ecosystem and it's a really solid framework, and so he
11:35
Speaker 2: took their framework and brought it to Flow. So now
11:38
Speaker 2: Eliza or Ai sixteen z is now on Flow and
11:41
Speaker 2: available today. Now that where we start building from there
11:46
Speaker 2: is kind of what I mentioned earlier we're participating in
11:48
Speaker 2: that hackathon upcoming is it's an open source protocol, which
11:52
Speaker 2: is one of the really cool things about it, and
11:54
Speaker 2: so we want to encourage developers to build what's called
11:56
Speaker 2: functions on top of that. Right now, as an agent,
11:59
Speaker 2: it can do all the things you can typically think of,
12:01
Speaker 2: you know, sending tokens x y Z, But the cool
12:04
Speaker 2: thing is developers can build additional functions in the sky's
12:07
Speaker 2: the limit for functionality, and so we're really excited to
12:10
Speaker 2: see the explosion of agent activity.
12:12
Speaker 1: I don't think people will really get the power of
12:16
Speaker 1: what these agents are going to be doing within crypto
12:19
Speaker 1: in the future. I think it's going to open up
12:21
Speaker 1: a whole new era not only of adoption, but use
12:24
Speaker 1: case scenarios that we haven't even uncovered yet in where
12:28
Speaker 1: blockchain is going to be. So it's cool to see
12:30
Speaker 1: that you guys are doing it. You hit on a
12:32
Speaker 1: few things here and you were talking about MeV resilience
12:36
Speaker 1: here and I wanted to ask you a few questions.
12:38
Speaker 1: One is suppressing imvy through some design choices. This is
12:42
Speaker 1: what makes Flow one of the best platforms out there,
12:45
Speaker 1: But in comparison to what's out there within other chains,
12:49
Speaker 1: is this the key kind of the cornerstone of where
12:52
Speaker 1: Flow kind of separates from everybody else.
12:55
Speaker 2: You know, I do think it's a huge part of it.
12:58
Speaker 2: And to explain a little bit about why I think that,
13:02
Speaker 2: I think AI agents, I think about it in this way.
13:05
Speaker 2: I think that if an app like things like top Shot,
13:07
Speaker 2: Disney Pinnacle, things like that, I don't think you're going
13:10
Speaker 2: to interface with an agent maybe directly in the NBA
13:13
Speaker 2: app that has to do their top Shot because it's
13:15
Speaker 2: a fun, engaging, maybe gamified experience. It does make a
13:17
Speaker 2: lot of sense, but we know that in crypto the
13:20
Speaker 2: user experience is awful for the most part. Right. I
13:22
Speaker 2: think that's where AI agents can can have a huge solve.
13:25
Speaker 2: Is can I just interact with the blockchain with my
13:27
Speaker 2: voice by saying, Hey, AI agent, I want to get
13:30
Speaker 2: x amount of yield, you know, can you find a
13:32
Speaker 2: good strategy for me? And then it just goes off
13:34
Speaker 2: and does its thing. And this is where MeV resilience
13:37
Speaker 2: comes into play, because I'm a big believer that AI
13:40
Speaker 2: is going to it's going to discover minutia arbitrage opportunities,
13:44
Speaker 2: It's going to really be hyper efficient at figuring out
13:48
Speaker 2: how can I generate the most you know, wealth revenue
13:51
Speaker 2: for my user in MeV, which has traditionally been only
13:55
Speaker 2: available to people with high computabilities, who are you know,
13:59
Speaker 2: really kind of in the know. I think an AI
14:02
Speaker 2: agent could do it like that, right, and so it
14:05
Speaker 2: really and so I think that Flow having MeTV resilience,
14:08
Speaker 2: and for those who don't know what that means, it
14:10
Speaker 2: means that people can reorder transactions before it enters the blockchain,
14:13
Speaker 2: right exactly. They can kind of come up with a
14:15
Speaker 2: way to make themselves more of a priority than your transaction,
14:20
Speaker 2: which can have negative negative consequences if finances are on
14:23
Speaker 2: the line. Right, And with Flow, we're incredibly MeTV resilient.
14:27
Speaker 2: It almost can't happen due to our architecture. And so
14:30
Speaker 2: I think what that does is create an equitable environment
14:33
Speaker 2: where you and I have the same edge as someone
14:37
Speaker 2: with the data center.
14:39
Speaker 1: That's what makes me feel powerful, right, there is. It
14:42
Speaker 1: really does level the playing field on a lot of this.
14:45
Speaker 1: Staying with the AI conversation, here was look at another tweet
14:50
Speaker 1: you had to hear, and this is talking about, you know,
14:54
Speaker 1: the team building on this Fix this World. I mean
14:57
Speaker 1: we could see this launch. What do you think do
14:59
Speaker 1: you think this could be launching soon? What's the Is
15:02
Speaker 1: there a timeline out there that you've been privy to
15:04
Speaker 1: around this? What's the potential here in twenty twenty five?
15:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, Bohaw wants to launch his
15:11
Speaker 2: product on Fix's World. He calls it V three of
15:13
Speaker 2: his product relatively soon. I don't know exactly when. But
15:16
Speaker 2: he's also in tandem creating that kind of developer environment
15:20
Speaker 2: for anybody to build on top of that. And that's
15:22
Speaker 2: he's making a really big focus there, and that's what
15:25
Speaker 2: you know, we want anybody to be able to build
15:28
Speaker 2: on top of it and create that kind of community
15:30
Speaker 2: network effect. And so I think that's going to be
15:32
Speaker 2: a winning strategy long term.
15:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one we are watching very very closely,
15:37
Speaker 1: especially in the AI space. There's a handful that have
15:40
Speaker 1: not launched. For many of you guys watching our show
15:42
Speaker 1: right now, this is such an early space. We've shown
15:47
Speaker 1: this in quite a few videos in terms of the
15:48
Speaker 1: amount of AI agents that have deployed, whether it's on Base,
15:51
Speaker 1: Avalanche as well as other networks. But we're really keeping
15:56
Speaker 1: a close eye on this one. So Fix's world is
15:57
Speaker 1: definitely one that is we're following along quick. So I'm
16:00
Speaker 1: looking at another tweet you did right here, and this
16:04
Speaker 1: is sports collectibles evolving very fast. Imagine having an AI
16:08
Speaker 1: tracks trades manages, you know, your NBA top shop moments,
16:13
Speaker 1: et cetera. I can also see this being used in
16:16
Speaker 1: all sorts of maybe even betting architecture. If you think
16:19
Speaker 1: about this, because if you look at what Barstool Sports
16:23
Speaker 1: is doing, you know, ESPN bets, you look at all
16:26
Speaker 1: of the ecosystem that's being developed out there right now,
16:29
Speaker 1: AI is going to be play a big part of this.
16:32
Speaker 1: Explain to me how powerful this could be for the
16:35
Speaker 1: sports industry.
16:36
Speaker 2: Let's say, for when you're interacting in the NBA app,
16:40
Speaker 2: you might be interacting with an agent, but there's so
16:42
Speaker 2: many additional opportunities. I mean, you mentioned sports betting that
16:45
Speaker 2: that's a big one, but I think about even let's
16:48
Speaker 2: say I have a favorite team and you know, we
16:51
Speaker 2: do a lot of things all the time. I'm you know,
16:53
Speaker 2: checking this social, checking that social. I can't be glued
16:56
Speaker 2: to my phone, glued to my TV watching this, you know,
16:58
Speaker 2: team see when the moment come out for my favorite
17:00
Speaker 2: player all the time. But if I have an agent
17:03
Speaker 2: who's monitoring that and says, oh, hey, your favorite player,
17:05
Speaker 2: they just came out with a moment, I'm going to
17:06
Speaker 2: go ahead and snag that for you and put that
17:08
Speaker 2: in your collection, I think that's really powerful. If i'm
17:11
Speaker 2: you know, if I'm like, oh, wow, I really want
17:13
Speaker 2: this really rare moment, but I don't want to pay
17:16
Speaker 2: that much for it. Agent, could you keep an eye
17:17
Speaker 2: out when a really good deal comes up on that? Yeah,
17:20
Speaker 2: and I can, and you can snag that for me.
17:22
Speaker 2: So it's having a personal assistant to be able to
17:25
Speaker 2: kind of monitor and curate your collection, look for opportunities,
17:30
Speaker 2: you know, maybe take advantage of arbitrage across different marketplaces.
17:34
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much you could do there.
17:36
Speaker 1: So you look at digital IP we're already seeing i
17:39
Speaker 1: would say, a massive explosion over the last couple of
17:42
Speaker 1: years in many different collections platforms. You look at Pudget Penguins,
17:46
Speaker 1: what they've been able to do in a short period
17:48
Speaker 1: of time. Genies is one that we're continuing to watch here.
17:52
Speaker 1: And this one's kind of interesting because if you scan
17:54
Speaker 1: down on their website, this I thought was cool smart
17:59
Speaker 1: avatars Mark and this is they're talking about AI avatars,
18:02
Speaker 1: personalized gameplay, smart assets that could be integrated talent the
18:07
Speaker 1: network itself. Point is I'm getting at is could Genies
18:11
Speaker 1: be using something like a flow AI to be able
18:14
Speaker 1: to utilize this within their new user generated content model
18:20
Speaker 1: that they're building right now?
18:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I think that's That's one of
18:23
Speaker 2: the things I think you mentioned virtuals earlier, and one
18:25
Speaker 2: of the things that I think has a lot of
18:27
Speaker 2: people haven't quite wrapped their head around yet is imagine
18:30
Speaker 2: that you have an avatar and we're all I won't
18:34
Speaker 2: say we're all, but a lot of us are representing
18:36
Speaker 2: ourselves more increasingly online. What if I could have a
18:40
Speaker 2: character that's online on multiple different platforms, right, TikTok, Instagram,
18:44
Speaker 2: things like this, but it has a shared memory, right,
18:47
Speaker 2: and it can it can if I interact with if
18:50
Speaker 2: I'm a fan of this avatar, I interact with it
18:53
Speaker 2: on TikTok and then I also see it on Instagram
18:55
Speaker 2: later it remembers me right and then but maybe it
18:58
Speaker 2: goes hell, wow, thanks for showing up and being I'm
19:00
Speaker 2: going to send you a few tokens, you know, thanks
19:02
Speaker 2: for thanks for the like, thanks for the comment. And
19:05
Speaker 2: this is where, Yeah, these avatars powered by by agents
19:07
Speaker 2: can be really powerful as kind of an asset in
19:12
Speaker 2: a weird way. You know, if you if you own
19:14
Speaker 2: the agent, then it becomes an asset, which is really interesting.
19:18
Speaker 1: Another area that we are continuing to watch is loyalty rewards.
19:22
Speaker 1: We think that's going to be a you know, a
19:24
Speaker 1: killer app for blockchain. You guys, and I say you guys.
19:27
Speaker 1: Flow does a really good job on that. If you
19:29
Speaker 1: go to store dot flow dot com, talk to me
19:32
Speaker 1: a little bit about where this is going, because this
19:34
Speaker 1: is like a rewards platform for the Flow blockchain. What's
19:38
Speaker 1: the plans for twenty twenty five on this. There's a
19:40
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff in here.
19:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you click in the Explore reward shop and
19:45
Speaker 2: see some of the really the cool items. I think
19:47
Speaker 2: there's some sneakers, some rolexes, there's some really some really.
19:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, there has Yeah, we've shown a little bit of
19:52
Speaker 1: this on the show before some high end ticket items too.
19:56
Speaker 1: So you got some meta question there. You know you
19:58
Speaker 1: can play that, get that with four hundred and twenty
20:01
Speaker 1: five thousand points. So where is this going for twenty
20:04
Speaker 1: twenty five?
20:04
Speaker 2: What's next? Yeah? The Flow reward store is really awesome.
20:08
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's wonderful. I think it
20:10
Speaker 2: solves alignment between the network, the blockchain, the developer, and
20:15
Speaker 2: the end user. And so it's a really kind of
20:17
Speaker 2: unique platform that does this. And so one of the
20:20
Speaker 2: things we talked about earlier is the kind of network
20:22
Speaker 2: effects of being able to build on the same blockchain
20:24
Speaker 2: that some of the world's biggest ips are. Now you
20:26
Speaker 2: can appear in the same reward store, right, we have
20:29
Speaker 2: we have an app that was built at a hackathon
20:31
Speaker 2: at Singapore I think at this point, maybe fourteen weeks ago.
20:35
Speaker 2: It's called pump Flow. So it's a kind of mean
20:38
Speaker 2: point launching launchpad the great team from Turkey. I love
20:42
Speaker 2: these guys. But their app is now featured side by
20:45
Speaker 2: side with some of the world's greatest ips in the
20:47
Speaker 2: reward store. That's in crazy, Yeah it is, isn't right?
20:51
Speaker 2: Like his distribution in crypto is something that realizesn't it's
20:54
Speaker 2: solved for there's no central app store like on your phone.
20:57
Speaker 2: Things like this. So the ability to create a hub
21:00
Speaker 2: where I can go and say what are the absence ecosystem?
21:02
Speaker 2: What should I try? What should I discover? And for
21:05
Speaker 2: a new up and coming developer, I think that has
21:08
Speaker 2: immense value and so we're really excited to be able
21:10
Speaker 2: to have broadact.
21:12
Speaker 1: So with the with the rewards platform, you look at
21:15
Speaker 1: kind of crossover key targets. Do you think about crypto
21:19
Speaker 1: being able to do this If you look at Ticketmaster,
21:21
Speaker 1: you look at top shots, and you think about crossover
21:25
Speaker 1: of being able to reward another another platforms users just
21:29
Speaker 1: because they hold you know, an NFT or you know
21:32
Speaker 1: a collectible of some sort, that's a big opportunity. Do
21:36
Speaker 1: you think the potential for that to implement into a
21:41
Speaker 1: thing like things like rewards will happen in twenty twenty
21:45
Speaker 1: five or is that something kind of more lofty.
21:48
Speaker 2: I mean down the road now, I don't. I don't
21:50
Speaker 2: think it's that lofty at all. I mean, we've we've
21:53
Speaker 2: already seen this happen. You mentioned Ticketmaster in a couple
21:55
Speaker 2: of ways. A lot of people haven't tracked this. I
21:58
Speaker 2: think there's an interesting kind of cognitive dissonance that has
22:01
Speaker 2: emerged in crypto, specifically as it in regards to flow.
22:05
Speaker 2: Some of the activations that happen on flow are almost incomprehensible,
22:08
Speaker 2: like we're like, no, that's not happening in crypto, Like
22:10
Speaker 2: we're still early, that's not happening in crypto. Most recently, Ticketmaster,
22:14
Speaker 2: if you attended an in person NFL game, you got
22:17
Speaker 2: an email with a Ticketmaster collectible NFT. In addition to that,
22:21
Speaker 2: they partnered up with NFL All Day and you got
22:23
Speaker 2: a NFL All Day moment from the game you attended
22:26
Speaker 2: as an NFT. So Ticketmaster is making NFTs, NFL is
22:30
Speaker 2: making NFTs like real world things are happening right now. Yeah,
22:34
Speaker 2: that's incredible. But from the flip side of it, like
22:38
Speaker 2: saying something like crypto kitties, which is very crypt native,
22:41
Speaker 2: they are absolutely taking advantage of the composable nature of cryptocurrency.
22:45
Speaker 2: They've they just recently did a conclusion of the first
22:48
Speaker 2: season of their Telegram game, and you got a at
22:51
Speaker 2: the end, you got a crate, and inside the crate
22:53
Speaker 2: contained meme coins, bitcoin, all this other stuff, all these
22:56
Speaker 2: assets and they can choose to reward their the users
22:59
Speaker 2: with those missionlessly because because it's crypto, they can absolutely
23:04
Speaker 2: do that. So it's just really cool to see that
23:07
Speaker 2: emerging on our chain.
23:08
Speaker 1: Would this be something that could be opened up to
23:12
Speaker 1: users in general? So let's say, for instance, you know
23:15
Speaker 1: PBNs on flow, We've got we're gaining points over there
23:18
Speaker 1: within the loyalty platform, and then we want to air
23:22
Speaker 1: drop that out to one of our members, one of
23:25
Speaker 1: our fans, one of our audience. Is there anything that
23:28
Speaker 1: is in the roadmap for that kind of composibility?
23:33
Speaker 2: Well, well, in that that is how the Flow Reward
23:35
Speaker 2: Store works. Right now. Let's say you're an app in
23:37
Speaker 2: our ecosystem and you approachest the Foundation, you say, hey,
23:40
Speaker 2: we want to be in the app store. We go great,
23:42
Speaker 2: Let's give you an allocation of what's called boxes and keys,
23:45
Speaker 2: which are part of our point system. You can give
23:47
Speaker 2: those out to your users as a user incentive to
23:50
Speaker 2: get people to join your platform, participate in whatever kind
23:53
Speaker 2: of activities, and then they can take those points back
23:55
Speaker 2: to the Flow Reward Store and get rewarded. So we
23:59
Speaker 2: as a foundation want you, as the app to be successful.
24:02
Speaker 2: We want to give you the tools to help you
24:03
Speaker 2: do so.
24:03
Speaker 1: I want to get into another area that we've talked
24:06
Speaker 1: about here on the show quite a bit, and that
24:07
Speaker 1: is the potential of blockchain working within I think the
24:12
Speaker 1: restaurant space is going to be huge, both on the
24:15
Speaker 1: loyalty side and maybe even on the execution side in
24:18
Speaker 1: terms of ordering descriptable interactions without smart contracts. This is
24:22
Speaker 1: one of the things we've talked.
24:23
Speaker 2: About quite a bit.
24:24
Speaker 1: It gives you an example of I mean, this isn't Chipotle,
24:27
Speaker 1: but it could easily be Chipotle, okay, And that's kind
24:31
Speaker 1: of this condition based transaction that looks at the network
24:35
Speaker 1: stake state before executing on. So you see here as
24:38
Speaker 1: an example, a grocery app can look at a precondition
24:41
Speaker 1: to check inventory things like that. So also whatever's available
24:44
Speaker 1: you know within that this starts to open up an opportunity,
24:48
Speaker 1: and flow has the capacity to do something like this
24:53
Speaker 1: to where this could be actually performed in a retail operation.
24:58
Speaker 1: Any potentials down on the road for something.
25:00
Speaker 2: Like that Chipotle, if you're listening, just playing, but I
25:06
Speaker 2: think that you know we all I say we all again.
25:09
Speaker 2: But when when I first got introduced to cryptocurrency, I
25:12
Speaker 2: saw ethereum as this world computer. And I thought it
25:14
Speaker 2: was a really interesting concept that we get this decentralized
25:17
Speaker 2: world computer. But the reality is is that it's actually
25:20
Speaker 2: limited in its functionality something as simple as in traditional
25:24
Speaker 2: computer science, a conditional statement if then you know, for not,
25:29
Speaker 2: things like this actually are not that easy to do
25:32
Speaker 2: in solidity. And so that's where flow really succeeds, is
25:36
Speaker 2: that you're able to have complex on chain logic that
25:39
Speaker 2: is going to enable us to have the software experiences
25:42
Speaker 2: that honestly we've come to already expect in our web
25:45
Speaker 2: two lives, but be on chain.
25:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and so which I think so many people
25:50
Speaker 1: are missing that that point for sure. Yeah, it's a big,
25:53
Speaker 1: big opportunity. Let's also take a look at staking. This
25:57
Speaker 1: was another item we had here, so defile on flow
26:00
Speaker 1: liquid staking. Obviously it's boosting the ecosystem. If you're looking
26:04
Speaker 1: at increment finance right here, and if you guys have
26:06
Speaker 1: not downloaded the flow wallet, go do that first, so
26:10
Speaker 1: you can kind of explore how liquid staking works within
26:14
Speaker 1: the flow ecosystem, because there's some pretty significant rewards that
26:18
Speaker 1: are printing out there. But do you feel like this
26:22
Speaker 1: is really going to help expand the ecosystem for those
26:25
Speaker 1: who are really active in DeFi.
26:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. I think liquid staking has kind
26:29
Speaker 2: of become part for the course a lot of DeFi ecosystems,
26:32
Speaker 2: and so that's one of the things that you know,
26:34
Speaker 2: Flow with our Crescendo upgrade, we want to have at
26:37
Speaker 2: a minimum feature parity with a lot of the DeFi
26:40
Speaker 2: features that you come to expect, and then we want
26:41
Speaker 2: to kind of compound upon that. We've already seen people
26:44
Speaker 2: adopt liquid staking through through platforms like increment anchor stank Staking,
26:49
Speaker 2: things like that, and already start to interact. We've seen
26:52
Speaker 2: other ecosystem partners like Kittie Punch, one of our DEXes
26:56
Speaker 2: on flow start to accept those LSTs in and create
27:00
Speaker 2: a more vibrant DeFi equosystem. So, yeah, big fan of
27:02
Speaker 2: liquids taking.
27:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is going to be It's kind
27:05
Speaker 1: of the under underreported area of crypto right now, especially
27:09
Speaker 1: around DeFi. I mean, I mean it's happening across all
27:11
Speaker 1: the networks, whether you're looking at go Go pool, you
27:14
Speaker 1: look at what's happening with Solana, I mean, Gito is
27:17
Speaker 1: a good example of that as well. So I mean
27:19
Speaker 1: it has there's a lot of communities out there that
27:22
Speaker 1: are already kind of plugged into it. But it's cool
27:24
Speaker 1: that flow is kind of going that I want to
27:26
Speaker 1: hit that direction. I want to hit on this last
27:28
Speaker 1: topic and that is the Disney Pinnacle platform. So we've
27:32
Speaker 1: talked about it, We've done we did a whole video
27:34
Speaker 1: on this. So if you guys are watching the channel
27:37
Speaker 1: right now and you go, what's Disney doing on what
27:39
Speaker 1: are they doing? Well, they're actually getting into some sales
27:43
Speaker 1: volume now, I mean not a lot of transactions here.
27:47
Speaker 1: The point being is Pinnacle is like a collectible pin
27:50
Speaker 1: for those of you who have never If you want
27:51
Speaker 1: to go back and watch the whole video, just search
27:53
Speaker 1: Disney Pinnacle on our channel. You'll we did a full breakdown.
27:56
Speaker 1: This is on a flow platform. When do you feel
27:59
Speaker 1: like this? I know you can't speak for Disney, but
28:01
Speaker 1: do you think they're going to launch this soone before long?
28:06
Speaker 2: Well, you know, like you mentioned, kind of it's it's
28:09
Speaker 2: an early access currently. I think it's maybe the product's
28:12
Speaker 2: a little bit over a year old at this point. Yeah,
28:14
Speaker 2: And as you can imagine, these kind of legacy ips
28:17
Speaker 2: tend to move fairly slowly, right, especially when kind of
28:20
Speaker 2: tiptoeing into the blockchain space. So I'm incredibly you know,
28:23
Speaker 2: it's a dapper wallet product, but as someone who's kind of,
28:26
Speaker 2: you know, representing the blockchain underneath that all, I'm incredibly
28:28
Speaker 2: proud of the work that they've done, and they've they've
28:31
Speaker 2: managed to gain the trust of a company like Disney
28:33
Speaker 2: that's allowed them to open up a marketplace, even even
28:37
Speaker 2: a temporary marketplace, where you can buy and sell your
28:39
Speaker 2: NFTs for whatever price you decide. Like, that's a big
28:41
Speaker 2: deal to really let people use their on chain IP
28:45
Speaker 2: however they want to. And so yeah, I certainly hope
28:48
Speaker 2: to see kind of an always on marketplace, always on
28:50
Speaker 2: trading emerge in the near future. That team is great.
28:53
Speaker 2: I spent some time with them at a Disney conference
28:55
Speaker 2: a couple months ago, and to get to see traditional
28:58
Speaker 2: Disney fans interact with that product and the kind of
29:00
Speaker 2: light bulb go off and then understand digital collecting for
29:03
Speaker 2: the first time was amazing.
29:05
Speaker 1: I mean, they've already got like twenty thousand, Yeah, it's
29:07
Speaker 1: twenty thousand followers here on x right now. This was
29:10
Speaker 1: a seventy two hour trading event. That was done get ready.
29:14
Speaker 1: So I'm still skeptical, but optimistically skeptical in the sense
29:20
Speaker 1: that if this can get rolling, because Disney has done
29:23
Speaker 1: some false starts before. I mean they've been trying to
29:25
Speaker 1: do this for quite a while and I would say
29:27
Speaker 1: for at least three years. Really get underneath the Pinnacle
29:29
Speaker 1: is a little bit different, for sure.
29:31
Speaker 2: It's last one of the things that go Just to
29:35
Speaker 2: say this, I had stated to use the term, but
29:38
Speaker 2: it was at the Disney conference that this really really
29:40
Speaker 2: hit me. Was almost the subtle genius of making them
29:43
Speaker 2: into digital pins. At first, I was like, why restrict
29:45
Speaker 2: yourself to that kind of form factor. It's digital, you
29:47
Speaker 2: can make it into whatever you want. But the subtle
29:50
Speaker 2: genius was is that when pin collectors, who there's a
29:52
Speaker 2: large population within Disney, saw them, they understood exactly what
29:56
Speaker 2: to do. They know how to collect pins, they know
29:58
Speaker 2: how to appreciate pins, they know that ecosystem, the lingo, everything,
30:02
Speaker 2: and they just kind of slipped right into it. And
30:04
Speaker 2: I was like it clicked for me. Then I was like,
30:06
Speaker 2: now I get it.
30:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I mean it's like whether you know you
30:11
Speaker 1: look at what Dapper has been able to do this
30:12
Speaker 1: and within other areas of the industries in terms of collectibles,
30:16
Speaker 1: it's a natural for sure. Last question to you consumer
30:19
Speaker 1: blockchain competitors, you know, and you look at Abstract versus
30:23
Speaker 1: FLOWYVM Abstract now of course coming into magicing likely is
30:30
Speaker 1: all happening. I mean, this is I would say this
30:33
Speaker 1: would be a competitor right now to what's happening within
30:36
Speaker 1: the Flow ecosystem. What are your thoughts on what's happening
30:40
Speaker 1: over with Abstract. Obviously, Pudgie Penguin's related here.
30:43
Speaker 2: Big big fan of Pudgies, big fan of Luca. I've
30:45
Speaker 2: met him a couple of times. He's a great guy.
30:48
Speaker 2: He's incredibly tall if nobody knew. But I think what
30:52
Speaker 2: Abstract is doing is great. I think they've discovered a
30:55
Speaker 2: lot of the same things that we've discovered here on Flow.
30:57
Speaker 2: I know they're coming out with their own kind of
30:59
Speaker 2: ecosystem wallet called the Abstract Global Wallet, and I think
31:02
Speaker 2: it tries to achieve a lot of the same things
31:04
Speaker 2: that we've done here on Flow, which is like separated
31:06
Speaker 2: proposer and payer sponsored gas things like these, like all
31:09
Speaker 2: these kind of user experience improvements that we found to
31:13
Speaker 2: be incredibly important. Yeah, I would say at this point
31:15
Speaker 2: in the game, like a win for one is a
31:18
Speaker 2: win for all, you know, And so I'm really excited
31:20
Speaker 2: that they're pushing the envelope and will continue to do
31:23
Speaker 2: the same. So nothing but respect the Abstract team.
31:26
Speaker 1: Very cool. Well, we are going to be watching all
31:28
Speaker 1: of this because I think the key here as we
31:30
Speaker 1: start to see blockchains being utilized and implemented in real
31:34
Speaker 1: use case, this is a lot of the underlying tech
31:36
Speaker 1: that's going to drive retail, consumer goods, all sorts of
31:40
Speaker 1: things that we're starting to see Flow being one of
31:42
Speaker 1: the chains that I would say is leading the pack
31:44
Speaker 1: right now in all of this, and it's kind of
31:46
Speaker 1: the undersung hero of real adoption in blockchain right now,
31:52
Speaker 1: and I.
31:52
Speaker 2: Think it's going to be.
31:53
Speaker 1: But I agree, Yeah, I think it's going to be
31:55
Speaker 1: the undersung hero in AI as well. I think we're
31:58
Speaker 1: going to see some new things coming just because of
32:01
Speaker 1: the capacity and what it has the capability of is
32:03
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. All right, Listen, Matt, it's been great having
32:06
Speaker 1: you on. Thanks so much for stopping in. We appreciate it,
32:08
Speaker 1: and good look to you guys at the team over
32:10
Speaker 1: AFLOW appreciate it. You guys coming in.
32:12
Speaker 2: Thank you, Paul, appreciate it so much.
32:14
Speaker 1: You bet all right, So you guys are tuned in
32:16
Speaker 1: over on maybe the podcast side of things, jump over
32:18
Speaker 1: here to the YouTube channel, get in on the Diamond Circle.
32:21
Speaker 1: That's our own private email group, and of course you
32:23
Speaker 1: can follow me out there on x at Paul Baron.
32:26
Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time right here on tech Path.
32:29
Speaker 2: Thank you,