Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Sam Hoyos of Playing Dead

Transcript

Sam Hoyos of Playing Dead · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Long Islands playing dead have spent years living in that sweet spot between punk energy, power pop hooks, and heartfelt songwriting.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Their new split EP with Best Bones finds the band exploring something a little different.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Love songs, nostalgia, and the idea of finding your way back home while still delivering big guitars and massive choruses they've become known for.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Today, Sam joins me to talk about songwriting, underground music culture, staying creative for the long haul, and the stories behind these new songs.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Sam, take two.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: How the hell are you, brother?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm great.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, everything, every little bullet point that you just mentioned, I'm ready to talk about.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those were all good.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing there sounded dull or boring.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, man, let's get into uh the music talk.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've teamed up with Best Bones for this four-song split coming out next week.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: What made this the right time for a collaborative release?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And what do you think fans will hear when they put on this record for the first time?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so a beer, who is um uh Best Bones has two singers, Brendan and Abier.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've known Abier for a long time, and it was just like somebody that, you know, through music, you know, we've just I've played with uh, you know, all the iterations that he's gone through musically, and I always just loved his songwriting.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they're from Queens, we're from Long Island, so it's like a you know, we're not in the same circles.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just one day, once he started this group, Best Bones, they put out this really amazing, like eight-song record that was like one of the best things I heard last year.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he just like was randomly like, yo, let one day we're gonna do a split, we'll do a split, we'll do a split.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the time was like it's just a matter of like us having songs recorded at the same time.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we were going to with the last two songs that we did, which were um a song called Every Part of Youth, and Are the Answers There?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they were so kind of like behind the recording that you know, once I get stuff like, you know, in this universe, like I don't I don't sit on songs.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I hate sitting on songs.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: If we have it, it's like, you know, that's what we do.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't put out records, we don't put out 10 songs, but we put out two songs, three songs, four songs at a time, because that's just you know, for for me to ask eight minutes of your time is a lot easier than for me to ask for 40 minutes of your time, you know.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it once our, you know, once our shit lined up, like we had two songs at the same time that we're like, yeah, let's just split with these two.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh then it just kind of like worked out.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it as for what people are gonna hear, they're just gonna hear what me and a beer love.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're big pumpkin fans, smash and pumpkins.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We love big guitars, we love hooks, and uh, you know, that's it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess the simplest terms, you know, genres are so weird.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: No one knows, like, you know, when someone says like emo or punk or pop, like it's really what it means to the person saying it, you know.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for us, we just like melodies and we like guitars, you know, so it you could say the Beatles or something, you know.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you and I were chatting earlier, we were talking about La Bamba and Tesla, and kind of going going along that same line, you know, it's a recurring theme that comes up on my show, especially in the past two years, is that one of the silver linings to streaming platforms is that genres have kind of no longer have guardrails like they used to.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like people are okay to be fans of whatever they like and then create through that same vessel.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something that you kind of are making peace with yourself as a writer?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Never had to make peace with it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: For me, um, to basically give Billy Corrigan his flowers again as a child of Smashing Pumpkins, you he taught me that I could be as heavy as I want, as quiet as I want, as mid-tempo as I want.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have songs in our catalog that sound like three different bands, you know.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just if if I wrote the song and we play it as a band, it's a playing dead song because that's who we are.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't I don't ever like I'm never, you know, we we were never like we never considered ourselves like a punk band, so we never had that thing where we're like, oh, we're you know, we need to like stick with this formula.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a friend of mine just said you guys are like a indie rock band living in a punk rock universe, which is fine.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought we were like not punk enough for the punks and not indie enough for the indies.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, like, you know, I love Slayer just as much as I love bleachers, and you know, if I could write around that, then that's fine, you know.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find that and Tesla and and Richie Valence?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find that Jeff Keith?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find that that level of gatekeeping has kind of like dissipated as our generation has kind of come into age and maturity?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's just basically the internet, just you're able to share more things.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even things that you're not really into, you see so much that you're kind of softened to it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Where you're like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe like, all right, that's not that bad.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember I remember a long time ago I was working at this like retail place when I was a kid, and that song My Heart Will Go On by Celine Dion was I'm like, this fucking song sucks so bad.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: But two, three months into the job, I'm like, it's not that bad.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now enough time has gone where like you know, the that that venom has worn off.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So like I I think clearly now.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the the thing is, is like everyone is just treated to so many different things that I just feel like it softens it.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's um I I'm a huge hip-hop fan.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, what I always loved just like were the features, you know, like everyone had features on albums, and now I just see rock bands doing it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Even like a band like Ways Away, which I love, had like Chuck Reagan on a feature and uh a few other people, like just random, like a random like, you know, like punk band would have that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that, you know, and I think maybe it has to do with the streaming era where you know you kind of just like tap into like that universe, and you're like, all right, you know, it's like we're here's this band and you know this feature, or um bands like uh knock loose touring with Denzel Curry, um or a band like Turnstyle that started off like who would have thought, you know, just imagine being like, hey, we're gonna start a hardcore band and we're from you know Maryland, and you turn out to be the biggest band in the planet, you know.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now, they're like lightning in a bottle.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're as big as Nirvana or something.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're a cultural thing, and they're their sound, when you hear them or watch them live, they go from a hardcore song to something completely different.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think yeah, I think people will still gatekeep, but um, I I don't know.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's like I would like I would rather have two of something than just one.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree, I agree.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, going back home in 214 or being described as more sentimental and even love song territory, uh playing dead hasn't leaned into that much before.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: What unlocked that side of your songwriting?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think when, you know, like I my relationship, I've been in it for so long that it's like uh that's no longer like a uh something that I could tap into because it's just like you know, so I I I have to go elsewhere, but on occasion, like it's still like it's like you know, whenever I'm away, or like, you know, my girlfriend likes to be next to me at all times.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she's like one of those people.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think I just like wrote this song where I was just like, you know, what it's like to just be out somewhere, and you know, it's not like too serious.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when you hear going back home, it's not like so overtly like, oh my god, this is this thing.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's really whatever you want it to be.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then 214 was a writing exercise.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I like to do writing exercises on on Instagram.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'll post up like demos or things that I'm working on, even shit that kind of sounds like fucking garbage sometimes, or I'm like, yeah, whatever.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's still like the writing process.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just such a fan of songwriting.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: There was a time that I wrote, I wanted to write five songs in five days.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I was like, okay, every day I'm like, I'm gonna write a song and I'm gonna put it up.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And usually it was just like a verse chorus, like an idea, like a minute or something.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So for this one, it was uh Valentine's Day, and I was just sitting at home and playing the guitar, and um, I was like, let me see if I could write a Valentine's Day song that I could put on Instagram and just like let it play for like a minute.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what 214 was, and the lyrics were kind of silly, and she had just gotten me um a t-shirt, and the t-shirt was um, we're big fans of the movie Back to School with uh Rodney Dangerfield.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And in that movie, there's a scene where he has he's he's given a test and he's falling asleep, and like he answers a question, and the answer I mean it makes no sense, but he just says three.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So the t-shirt is just Rodney's face, and underneath it just says three.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I just I thought it was the funniest shit on the planet.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so yeah, I just I was like, oh, maybe I'll write this like you know, song for Instagram, but sometimes you hear a melody and you're like, oh, this is fun.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe the band could play this out, maybe you know, whatever.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's how 214 came about.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, your output sounds like it's pretty high, like you're always a guy that's constantly writing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever kind of hit roadbox creatively and have that demon of writer's block?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um never musically, never melody-wise, but lyrically.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Lyrically, yes.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like lyrically, I'm just like, you know, like what the fuck am I gonna write about now?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think we have like a recorded, I forgot the count.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Might have been like 144 songs that we have so far recorded.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I could guarantee you 138 of them are fucking terrible, but there's like seven pretty decent ones if you go through the catalog.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it musically, I don't know.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just like the simplicity of of how I play and melodies um just come quick and easy, but lyrically.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Lyrically is just like, all right, well, what do I want to sing about?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, you you know, you just turn to the TV or you turn to like some something, uh, just anything.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote a song called uh uh the The Vault Inside Your Mind a couple of years ago, and I wrote it while watching that documentary on um Netflix called Bad Vegan.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a three-part docuseries, and I just like kind of like wrote this thing, and you would never know.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you heard the lyrics, it just you're like no clue who it would be about, but that's who it was about.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just some girl with a with a vegan restaurant.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you said recently that you wanted to return to straightforward power pop songs, guitars, melodies, harmonies, and hooks.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: What is it about a huge chorus that still excites you as a songwriter after all of these years?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I probably said that because the two songs we released before these two, we had like three guitars, and it was just like more of like soundscapes.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We we like we kind of just like shredded a little bit on on those three songs and just kind of like made them like uh they're just a lot more leg room.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for these other two, I was just like, ah, we'll just do, you know.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: But then the next two, I don't know, the next two might just be completely different.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we we don't really we don't really know till we do it, but whatever we do as a band, that's who we are.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but it what you know, like who doesn't love like you hear Mr.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Bright Side and you know, you hear that shit at a stadium, and literally everyone loses their fucking shit because it's so fucking catchy, and that's really what it is, you know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like everyone wants to sing Don't Look Back at Anger by Oasis.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's a lot of fun.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's something uh music is magic.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's magic.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: It really is like fucking magic.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't explain it, but music is like a time machine, it's uh fucking medicine, you know, it'll make you feel like shit sometimes, it'll make you feel like awesome sometimes.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Music is fucking magic, and um when you write the right song, it's magic.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a gr a great quote that I've uh heard over the years, and it's like if paintings decorate space, music decorates time.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of the way of thinking about things like that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm with you, like there's nothing better than a great big cookie chorus.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as far as building that and baking that into playing Dead's identity, has that always become a strength over time, or is it something that you kind of have grow into?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, you you grow into it, you know.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I'm sure this time next year I'll feel like I'm a better songwriter than I was, and then the year after that it's gonna be the same.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're always just trying to like one up yourself.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would imagine that's what you're trying to do.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, like I'm sure Rivers Palomo is looking at the blue album and Pinkerton going like, How the fuck do I do this again?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And still trying to figure it out 30 years later.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think of that Saturday Night Live skit where Matt Damon and uh Leslie Jones are arguing about Weezer.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is so funny.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And they got a new callback.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: They got a new good record.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a Weezer apologist, so I'm always tapping in with them.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're always good for like a good handful of songs, but yeah, it's just like you um if you're in a band and you're making music and you don't think it's the best music at the time, like when you're sitting there in the studio and the producer's like, you know, pumping that mix up and you're like, you know, if you're not standing there with a fucking like, you know, boner um for your ears or whatever the fuck, you know, it's like you're doing it wrong, I think.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like if you're not excited about that, um, and you could be wrong, like, you know, like I could feel like these are the best two songs that we've done ever, and then four years from now, I'll be like, ah, you know what, these were kind of like in the middle, and the two before it were better, you know what I mean?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but at the moment, at that moment in time, um, if you don't really like believe in what you're doing, so like, yeah, like you're I I I don't understand, you know, like you're you're always when we make stuff, you're so excited about it because it's like brand fucking new.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but as far as like hooks go, like, yeah, you you you just like you know, songwriting is like this puzzle, and you you're constantly working at it, and then when you're done with it, it's just like okay, like I I think I got it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: But also, you know what it is when you hear something, like if you heard these two songs as much as I heard them while I was making it, you might like them a hundred times more than if you just heard them for three minutes on a release radar.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh, all right, cool.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you're you you just get like, you know, as as someone who makes music, you're you're just so like, you know, sometimes in like love with your songs, and it takes a minute to fade to be like, ah, yeah, shit's kind of whack.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: So is there ever a definitive moment where you know that a small idea is a real playing dead song or specific spark?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean I you know, for example, like this the 214 thing was just kind of like like I said, it was just this thing or silly, something for the internet, like acoustic, like here's this like minute thing.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did the same thing for like Christmas, like not too long ago, where I wrote like a minute Christmas song.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: That never went anywhere because it was just like eh, whatever.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: That one was just, you know, but this one in particular, I was like, oh, maybe if I add this here and I do that, you know, it'll turn into something.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh usually if it's something that I think about like when I wake up, like if it's stuck in my head the next day, you know, in the morning, um, then you're kind of excited to get the band practice and work on it.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's I guess that's that's pretty much the measurement, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're you can't wait to get into the kitchen, you're like, oh, like here, this is what I came up with.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, there's times where you look over and you're like, I wonder if these guys give a shit about this much as much as I do.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's it.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of like the way it goes.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And once you start playing it, you hear the drums, the bass, and all that other stuff, and you're just like, okay, I I think this will work.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the things that's different now than it even was ten years ago is how music is marketed and the fact that we are feeding an algorithm uh an algorithm more now than ever creatively, no matter what our creative outlet is, whether it be podcasting, because you're also a podcaster, making music, anything along those lines.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've talked to several artists that have had kind of reservations with this new release methodology of trickling out a few singles at a time before you release the whole album.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: But Playing Dead has released music steadily for years, and you've talked about the importance of releasing less music more frequently instead of disappearing for long stretches, which is kind of like adaptive thinking whenever you think about all the things that I just mentioned.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: How has that philosophy helped keep the band creative and relevant in your eyes?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, that's the beauty about being relevant, you know.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh unless you're big, you know, no one really gives a shit.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So like you're, you know, everyone's here just chasing the same eardrum, you know, like, hey, listen to this song.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But for us, man, it really started for me like once I saw like a perfect circle in like 2018 started like they dropped a new song, and I was like, oh man, that song's really good.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't I haven't tapped in with them at that time for a minute.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't release anything for like a month, and I was like, what the fuck?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: But by that time, like I kept listening to that song, it was a good song.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Then they drop a second song, and I was like, oh, like, okay, I'm like, the song's really good too.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it just gives you this time to like digest it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then they dropped a third single, and by that time, I was like, oh, I see what these fucking guys are doing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time the record drops, you already heard these three songs, which kind of like maybe allows you to go back and check in.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's that's around the time that I first started seeing that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think trends with like Spotify and everything changes so quick.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, knowing we're not a touring band, we're never gonna just hit the road and be like, hey, you know, we made a record, we're gonna be gone for two months.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um being able to reach other people, you know, through the internet is just kind of like the new tour for me, where it's just like, okay, it's like here's you know, what's really popping right now that I see are like short form videos.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like short form videos, like people, I feel like people are not even like making as many videos as you know, like smaller artists, like people, you know, like mid to lower tier bands, you know.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I see a guy like Nems killing it, like the rapper from Coney Island, and he just like puts out these minute clips of him like rapping from like one of his new albums, and it's like a quick minute, the beats hard, the visuals are cool, and that just keeps reminding you to like, oh, I should just like check out this album.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's what everyone does on Instagram.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like here's the hook of the song, and it's like you know, and then you just kind of if you're in the mix, uh, but yeah, it's it's everything is just like adapting, and if you're not In a tour, then you got to figure out different ways.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like we we believe in what we do, and you know, um, so then it's just my job to kind of like throw it out there and present it to people and be like, hey, this is this is what we do, and this is uh, you know, maybe you'll like this 30-second clip and it'll bring you back to our universe on Spotify or whatever, and um but it's wild, man, because like everyone has podcasts, everyone has music, so it's just like everyone's just kind of like uh just chasing that that thing where it's like, hey, check out what I have, you know.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: But so I think really what it comes down to is it's all for the love of the game.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because if it ain't for the love of the game, then it's pretty much useless.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone gives a shit, that's cool, but it's really just comes out to the love of the game.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you gotta love making music.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a weird dichotomy, and I would say that it's definitely evolved a lot over the last 10 years.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, next year, 2027, 2017 will have been 10 years, and that just blows my fucking mind, you know?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever I think of time, and I know that the internet has really accelerated our sense of time.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like when people talk about 2009, I'm like, oh, that was five years ago.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, that was closer to 20 years ago at this point.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I I see it's a weird dichotomy over the last 10 years that I think got um escalated by the pandemic to where I talked to the guys in Story of the Year and they're talking about how their version of a tour is like mini satellite dates now.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then we talk about the release strategy of the trickle out thing.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And what I've noticed as far as trends go is there's almost like a creative civil war happening right now between the topic of virality versus longevity, like trying to get that 15-second clip heard all over the place, or you're playing the long game so people invest in your band over a longer period of time.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, like touring doesn't necessarily have to be a part of that game plan in this new industry that I think personally is still adapting.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do you have any deeper f feelings about that as far as some of the challenges of marketing projects?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when it comes to like touring, you know, if if there was still money to be made in music, I think people would tour more, but like that money is just gone, you know, from any level that you go through.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like no one's buying X, Y, and Z.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's no money to be made, smaller bands just can't.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, it's like you're 40 or 35 or however old you are, and you're like, yeah, like I'll just come home and break even.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And next thing you know, like 10 years go by and you're like, you know, your band breaks up and you're like, all right, I guess I'll just go find a new career now at like 42 or something.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that definitely makes it hard.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: The marketing the marketing is really I leave it up to like the the pros, you know.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I do my thing.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: My thing is every day I wake up, I throw I throw a log of fire into that, you know, log into the fire where it's just like Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, whatever the fuck.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like here's here's a piece of content, and I throw it into that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but as far as like, I don't know shit about fuck, so like when it comes to marketing, I see people like bacon bits or like all these other guys that are just like Jesse Cannon, that have all these like you know, great strategies, and if you're willing to basically, I guess, tap in with them and like pay them or whatever the fuck.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, it's like it's like if we go to like great adventures and everyone uses like the fast pass, it's like, is it even the fast pass anymore?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like everyone's just everyone's just back to ground zero.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like you know, I think uh yeah, I don't know.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I the the marketing is it like we I could only do so much, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I see some people on TikTok and they're doing like walking into band practice and like it they're doing like a skit, and I'm just like, oh my god, I'm like just kill me right now.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's what you want to do, that's fine.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean it's just I can't do it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I anything beyond me sitting there with a guitar playing, like I'm like, hey, if you want to listen to this cool, if not like um, you know, it's not um the new thing is just like, hey, you just found your favorite uh, you know, whatever band you know that plays this type of shit like over and over again.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like I can't do that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, it is I can't do that part of it.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I could, I just can't.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, it is fucking insane because you know, I'll talk to people as far as marketing gurus, and they're like, well, the algorithms are trending towards authenticity now.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, are you shitting me?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: I heard that too.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, are you shitting me?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: You're telling me everybody's trending towards authenticity, and I think I see more skits online now than I've ever fucking seen before.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny you say that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we're all fucking listening to the same fucking shit, but it's just like, yeah, um, you know, it's just trending towards authenticity and you know, raw stuff.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, all right, well, I don't know, whatever that means.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's just fun to make shit.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun to make shit, and people love scratch-offs and playing numbers, you know, and that's what it is.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: You make stuff and you're like, oh, what if somebody heard the song and you know, next thing you know, we're playing for Princess Die has that for a reference.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just how about we're playing, you know what I mean?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like just something ridiculous like how about you know, like, wow, this song The Flies to Dubai now.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's focus more locally.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Long Island has such a deep musical history from punk rock and hardcore to emo and indie rock.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Was it what is it about that scene that helped shape playing dead and what keeps the community around you strong?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's just really good.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I I love the newer bands, like the younger kids that are doing it, the people my age doing it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I feel like no one has a bad demo anymore.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just unbelievable.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is it?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Who the fuck knows?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Probably, you know, suburbia, basements, you know, um easy to get together and and play instruments.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but right now there's just a lot of a lot of great music, you know.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like really impressed by so many of the things that that come out.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: It just like makes me when I hear like you know, good new music, Jersey has a lot of great stuff too going on, too, man.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: They they got some really cool like power pop fucking stuff coming out of Jersey right now.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, man.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh who the hell knows?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is just like bringing their A game.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know, every 15-year-old that played rock band, you know, 12 years ago and now is just like, okay, finally I could be in a band.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or I can't tell you.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I went to go see um Sunday.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: We went to go see Iron Maiden, Megadeth, and Anthrax.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there were so many kids at this place, at this uh stadium.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and we've you know, we always go see Maiden when they come around.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Me and the bass player are huge Maiden fans.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um but this show in particular, I'm just like watching these young kids lose their shit to anthrax and then Megadeth and then Maiden, and it was just like, holy shit, man.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just very cool to like really see it like up close, like just like young kids.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean old types of ages, but like it was just fun.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know, maybe people just want to rock again.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I have no idea.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: My fingers not on the bulk.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, that's a that's a another good call out because I you know, per making personal observations from my own scenes that I've been involved with, I almost feel like there was a generational gap in between people that were in bands and people that weren't.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: To almost like there was maybe a five to ten year gap where people just walked away from live music for a while and the kids weren't as into it, and that they've just now got in gotten back into it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because yeah, you're right.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's like this burgeoning uh growth of kids like 17-year-old to 25-year-olds that are creating music again, and it's kind of exciting.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like the Wild West all over again.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think so.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just uh I remember five years ago, I had an extra acoustic guitar and I went to go give it to like one of my nieces, and they were both like, nah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Whoa, I was like, if someone gave me a guitar, you know, I would have been so happy.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: But like, yeah, like what do they give a fuck?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they're just like like yeah, like they're they're probably just like, you know, like if my uncle tried to give me something that he gave a shit about, like, you know, when I was like 15, I'd be like, eh, whatever.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I don't know, maybe now things have changed.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: When I tried giving it to them, they looked at me, they're like, nah, they're like, we're good on this one.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I broke it over their heads.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Lean into bands that kind of inspired you.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: You've mentioned bands like the Get Up Kids, Lemon Heads, Super Drag, and Face to Face as major influences.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned pumpkins earlier.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: If someone wanted to understand playing dead through a few albums, what records would you hand them?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so specifically the band.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, okay, so um definitely that's um yeah, so wow, that's so many, so many ways to go.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna kill time here.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Can you ask me that question one more time?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure, yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you if someone wanted to understand playing dead through a few albums, what records would you specifically hand them to?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say Sam I am dull.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Sam I am astray.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um Ghetto Kids Something to Write Home About the self-titled face-to-face album, Lemon Heads It's a Shame About Ray.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I guess we'll do Fuck, I mean that's that's that's good.
• 33:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh any Limbeck record.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, ooh, nice, nice, nice.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know Limbeck?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I'm very familiar.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the thing.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm talking I'm talking I'm I'm talking to them tomorrow because they they're active again, so I hit up Rob and I was like, You want to do a podcast?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yeah, let's do it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking eh, right.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Gotta love that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: So with the split EPU arriving now and more momentum building through shows with artists like Chuck Reagan, co-defendants, what is the next chapter of playing dead look like for you?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it's always just gonna be the same.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just whether it's like me or you know, the rest of the band, we're just gonna make music and play shows.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it, you know.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Soon as these the split drops, September 15th, we we have a video we just finished for Going Back Home.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we like making videos too, that's a fun thing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Especially being, you know, uh a child of MTV, you know, watching Guns N' Roses drop two million dollars on a video to see uh actual swim with a a whale, you know, or uh slash play a solo on a mountain somewhere, you know, we the the just the thought of us being able to make a video is just fun, you know.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, like for close to nothing, or if your friend is cool, it'd be like, yeah, let's just make a video.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, we'll probably just go back to the studio and make some more songs and put them out and hang out.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean it's really all about the hang.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just all about the hang.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about the hang till one of us drops dead, and then we'll continue as a four-piece.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: When you think about the younger version of yourself discovering punk and melody for the first time, what would surprise you the most about where playing it dead is today?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I mean, I g I guess it's it's fun to have found something that I feel I love doing and I just want to do till the end of time.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the older I have gotten, the more I I kind of just like really fell in love with songwriting and being able to, you know, every day pick up a puzzle and you know, solve that puzzle and then move on to the next.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess I would be somewhat surprised that you know, many years later that I would still be doing the same thing.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Sam, I have really enjoyed this conversation.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: The uh closing question that I ask every guest, and I want to learn from your experience and through your eyes.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today through the things that you've experienced?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know, man.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm one of those guys like you do you, I do me.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't give a fuck about anything.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I don't know.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I got my own problems type thing.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you guys figure it out, you know.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how to make something better, I I don't know.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll all be dead soon.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Just stop giving a shit or stop fucking caring about dumb shit on the internet, fucking, you know, words that bother people.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: So fucking stupid.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just go do something and then drop dead later.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you and your band online, my friend?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is playing dead NY, so wherever you look, you know, um usually Instagram is like the popping thing, so like I will be responsive on playing dead NY on the Instagram, and you know, just check out what we do.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Plug your podcast as well, bro.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I do a podcast called Red River Podcast.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we talk movies, music, pop culture.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: We will have guests on, and sometimes we won't, and sometimes we will.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I guess we'll talk to Limbeck tomorrow.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh talking to this guy that I really like, Keith Jardine, who's in a movie called Over Your Dead Body.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's also like an ex-UFC fighter, got him on the schedule.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then sometimes we just talk, you know, pure nonsense.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Our 10 favorite Wu Tang songs or you know, stuff like that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to know what's kind of funny.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you talking to Keith Jardine, one of my good friends, is Houston Alexander.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know Keith.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, dude.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm I'm man, from UFC one till now, like I watched the shit out of that shit.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Same, same.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's honestly, that was a core large core of my show for a long period of time.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so I worked with a lot of fight teams.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: We could talk offline about that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: But man, Sam, thank you so much.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a blast chatting with you, brother.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure, man.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for doing the show.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: The world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody check out playing dead.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's some more hippie shit for everybody.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: So take care, brother.