Latest / Pod Save America / “There’s no ‘I’ in ‘Unity.’”

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“There’s no ‘I’ in ‘Unity.’” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Today, we'll be joined by White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: We'll talk with Tommy about the first week of the
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Biden administration. Before that, we'll talk about the coming battle
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: in Congress over the president's COVID relief plan, Mitch McConnell's
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: attempt to save the filibuster, and which side is winning
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the war within the Republican Party.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny, John.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: I accidentally prepped for the interview thinking it was with
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: Sean Spicer. So it goes a little off the rails.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Just kidding.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: No, it was just a joy to talk to Jen,
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: who's doing a great job. Did you grill her about
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: the Churchill bust and the paint job on Air Force One?
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I referenced it, yes. You'll hear.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I would like a gay set of eyes on Air
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Force One.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: I saw that tweet.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I know it's not a priority. Just one pair of
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: LGBTQ eyeballs.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Love it. How was the show this weekend?
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: Great.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Love it or leave it. We had Kumail Nanjiani on
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: for the monologue, which was very funny. And we did
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: OK Stop with the inaugural. And then I talked to
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Heather McGee about her book, The Sum of Us. And
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: it was a great conversation.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Check it out.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Did you call out Kumail on his cheat days that
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: just definitely don't happen because he's in way too good shape?
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: He's always like, I'm eating this whole pie. And it's like, no,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: you're not.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like every time he's on, we've covered it
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: pretty extensively. So not this time, but we did talk
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: a little bit about his transformation, just a bit.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Also, check out this week's America Dissected for the latest
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: on the vaccine rollout. Abdul speaks with Dr. Micah Johnson
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: about why the process is so screwed up and what
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: can be done. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts. Finally,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: we got some new merch in the Cricut store, guys,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: including Doug on a mug to celebrate our new second gentleman.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Is that real?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: 100% real.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Look, I just read what's in front of me. I
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: have no window into this process.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know what? I'll open that window for you.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, we're putting Doug on a mug. And
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: it took me like six tries to get it through
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: the process. But I got it done, Doug.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I hope we're sending one to the Naval Observatory for Doug.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Well, Blair House for now.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Blair House for now. Come on.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Eventually.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Stay up on the housing news. I know that's.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be permanent, guys. All right, and
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: this one I want in the merch store. A Got
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Mitch t-shirt. I want the Got Mitch t-shirt. Someone send
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: that to me. Crooked.com slash store to check out all
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the great merch. All right, let's get to the news.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: The first and biggest item on President Biden's legislative agenda
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: is his $ 1. 9 trillion plan to fight the pandemic and
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the recession. It includes money to speed up vaccinations, expand testing,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and reopen schools. It also includes $ 1, 400 checks, an extra
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: $ 400 a week in unemployment, money to prevent state and
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: local layoffs, money for childcare, paid leave, rent support, an
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: eviction freeze, a student loan freeze, and a $ 15 minimum wage.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: The White House kicked off their congressional outreach on Sunday
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: with a call between National Economic Council Director Brian Deese
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and a bipartisan group of senators that Joe Manchin got together.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: After 75 minutes, the Republican senators told a number of
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: outlets that Biden's plan cannot get 60 votes in the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Senate as is, with Susan Collins saying she has, quote, concerns.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Because of course she's concerned.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: Love it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: What are some of the Republican concerns and what's your
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: reaction to those concerns?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So first of all, they have one concern, as far
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: as I can tell, which is just the number. They
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: seem to really be focused entirely on ooh, that's a
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: very big number. I had some sticker shock, the price tag,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: like they're negotiating over a car.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Mitt Romney said it was shocking.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It's a shock. Well, the thing about it is that like,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: this isn't a car. It's not like, what don't you want?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: What part of this crisis are you not willing to address, right? Like,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: is it the money for state and local, right? That's
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: 350 billion of it. Nobody wants to say that's not
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: what they're for. Republicans, because Trump had pushed for it,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: previously said that they were open to doing $ 2, 000 checks
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and unemployment insurance, which is a full trillion of it.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: They all seem to rally around like there's like, what,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: 20 billion for vaccination. There's 50 billion for testing. There's
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: 40 billion for PPE. You start going through it and
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: you realize very quickly that what they're really saying is
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: we don't want to talk about the pieces of this
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: we don't want to vote for because no Republican is
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: going to come out there right now. We've got a
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: million job claims. We have 10 million job hole. We're
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a crisis. If the job numbers
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: we saw this week were the first things we'd seen,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: it would be the start of a deep, terrible recession, right?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: We're in the middle of a national crisis. So they
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: won't say make the check smaller. They won't point to
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: what they want. So they're saying, oh, we have sticker shock.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It's just too big.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Tommy, yeah, it was sticker shock mainly, you know, and
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: part of the sticker shock was we just passed nine
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars, you know, in December. There was a
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: few Republican senators who say there's too many non-COVID specific
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: items like a minimum wage increase to fifteen dollars an hour.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: And then I guess Susan Collins and a few others
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: had an issue with the $ 1, 400 checks going to people
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: making too much money. They said that families making as
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: much as $ 300, 000 could potentially get those $ 1, 400 checks. What's
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: your response to sort of all of these various concerns?
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I mean, I share a little bit sort
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: of annoyance with the people like Mitt Romney who are like, yeah,
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: I support extending unemployment insurance and money for states and
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: money to help with vaccine distribution.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: But not this much. Well, OK, then what is what
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: is the right amount? It also seems like some.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: Of them are of the view that the economy will
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: bounce back once COVID is handled. So they're sort of
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: deprioritizing the economic relief. Others, right, like Rob Portman is
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: in the press crying because the White House hasn't called him.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: So I guess maybe just being a thin skinned baby
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: is his priority in this instance, not helping people. You know,
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: like I it does seem like it's there's some hope here.
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: These people actually these Republican senators actually support all these
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: things in good faith. Maybe there's a chance you can
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: cobble together a package that they could support.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: But who knows?
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: We'll see.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you take their concerns. as good
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: faith concerns. What I would say is, like, none of
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: these senators had an issue with Trump's first $ 1. 8 trillion
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: plan last year, the CARES Act, or the $ 900 billion
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: plan this fall. And nothing has changed about the state
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: of the virus or the economy. The only thing that's
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: changed is the money's going to run out. We know
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: that life is not going to return to normal until
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the fall, hopefully earliest, completely normal. The last relief plan
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: was specifically designed to get us through the winter. As
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Lovett pointed out, the job losses are still continuing. The
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: December report was 140,000 jobs lost, which started reversing the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: so-called recovery. Unemployment benefits are going to run out in March.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: There's a cliff on that. And we're not vaccinating people
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: quickly enough right now, not nearly enough. So like all
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: of the need that was there when the CARES Act
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: was passed, the need that was there in the $ 900
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: billion passed is all there now. And so the reason
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: it's this much money is because that's what it required
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: last time we had. We needed a big package to
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: get us through the fall for the to last the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: recession in the pandemic.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Well, it's just, here's the thing. Like if, if, if
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: there seemed to be 10 Republican senators that could get behind, like, okay,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the minimum wage, they're not going to be for that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: It's the one issue on which they seem principled because
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: it's a popular issue, but they're not having a debate
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: about whether or not to take a $ 1. 9 trillion package
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: to 1.7, right? They're acting as though they want to
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: see a much different, a much smaller thing. We just
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: can't do that, right? Because each piece of this, when
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you look at it, each piece is required, right? Like
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden promised getting those checks up to $ 2, 000. Unemployment
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: benefits are needed. The $ 350 billion for state and local
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: is needed. The money for PPE and testing is needed.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Biden has been saying, we're in a national emergency. We
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: need to act like it, right? This is a package
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: that reflects the actual scale of the problem. Mitt Romney,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Susan Collins, their problem is with the scale of the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: issue and creating artificial constraints on the amount to get
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: their votes doesn't make sense when it seems like they're
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: not quibbling. They're looking for an entirely different proposal.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Well, so Politico reported that even some Democrats indicated that
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: they're not sold yet on Biden's plan. How much of
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a problem do you guys think that is, Tommy?
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: It's hard to know.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'd like to see actual senators on the
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: record saying as much. I did see that Jason Furman,
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: who is a Obama administration economist, suggested that he thinks
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: he'll have to come down some to get all the
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: Democrats you need, even for a reconciliation vote. My guess
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: is that the Biden team started big with this package,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: anticipating the fact that it might get negotiated down in
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: some places.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I think that's smart negotiating. It's what I would have done, too.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: The thing to remember, though, is that Bernie Sanders is
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: now or about to be once they figure out how
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: to make the Senate go forward. He's now the chair
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: of the Budget Committee. And he said over the weekend
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: that he wants to use the budget reconciliation path to
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: pass a really big COVID relief package. So, you know,
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: that's I don't know what Democrats are on board or not,
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: but Bernie is forging full steam ahead here.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's talk about that. I mean, I do
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: think on the question of getting all the Democrats on board,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you're right. You can have some negotiations around the edges here.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Like if they wanted to target the $ 1, 400 checks so
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: that they're not going to people making $ 300, 000, but, you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: somewhat less than that, like I'd be fine with that.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that could bring the price tag down a
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: But you're right.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: There's not going to be major changes just to get
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Democrats on board. But, you know, the president has two
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: options here. He can now change his plan and make
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: it smaller so that he might be able to find
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the 10 Republican senators he needs to pass it as
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: a normal piece of legislation or. he can change only
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: what he needs in order to get all the Senate
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Democrats on board and then pass the plan through the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: budget reconciliation process, which only requires 51 votes, which, Tommy,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: as you just pointed out, Bernie is like ready to
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: move on that. Pelosi in the House says she's ready
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: to move on that. Lovett, what are the upsides and downsides?
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: to each strategy. Why don't you talk about regular order?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: So what are the upsides to regular order at this point?
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It's hard to really remember. I mean, look, the challenge
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: of doing it through reconciliation is you have to clear
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: everything through the Senate parliamentarian to make sure it is
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: a budget-related proposal that there's other kinds of rules associated
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: with it. $ 15 minimum wage, there's some people are claiming
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: you can do it, probably falls out. A number of
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: other pieces of this.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Probably it may be it may be the only provision
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: i think that falls out if you if you did
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: it this way i'm not positive but i think i
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: think almost all the other things we talked about were.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Just money just straight spending yeah well there i think
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: there are other parts of the proposal that haven't gotten
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of coverage that would have to just not
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: be part of a reconciliation that aren't money but the
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: money could be done through the through reconciliation um the Idea,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I guess, for going through regular order would be you
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: could quickly pass checks and money if you still believe
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: that there's 10 Republican votes for that. I don't know.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: And then you could also pass some of the emergency
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: funding for vaccination and testing and PPE. And then you
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: can come back to reconciliation to do some other things later.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: So your first bill would be bipartisan. And then after that,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: you would use reconciliation. I'll just be honest in that
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I don't totally understand the merits of that, like why
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: it why is it better to pass some of the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: other pieces to reconciliation later? Like, what does that do?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Especially if it, like Bernie seems to think he can
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: get reconciliation done by February 8th before the impeachment trial starts.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So I don't totally understand it, but to me, it's like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: you know, procedure experts have at it. If you're going
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: to do the, like the goal is to get as
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: much of a $ 1. 9 trillion package out as quickly as
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: humanly possible. Reconciliation, regular order plus reconciliation. I have no
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: fucking idea.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Tommy, Tommy, do you want to make The argument in
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: favor of going through regular order and just trying to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: get those Republicans on board.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: No, I think it's a dumb argument.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: Look, Dave Weigel, The Washington Post, made this point over
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: the weekend, which was in some ways having a 50-50 split,
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: I think, is almost less complicated politically. Like when Obama
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: had 58 senators back in 2009, it was easy to
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: allow yourself to think, OK, let's pick off two moderates here.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: If we engage in good faith negotiations.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: With, you know, if we just like give some sweeteners
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: to Maine and Alaska, maybe we can get the votes
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: we need. I don't think there's a chance in hell
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: that you find 10 Republicans to support a package at
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: the scale that Biden seems to think is necessary. So
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: I would turn to reconciliation. I mean, I think that
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: the downside is bad faith whining from Republicans about how
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: this isn't unity, which will spill into dumb reporting and
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: analysis about how this isn't unity. But like the point
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: of governing is to do things for the people who
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: elected you. And I think the American people want Joe
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: Biden to pass a big COVID relief bill and get
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: his arms around the problem and get money to states
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: for vaccinations and testing and all these things. So I
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: think like I would just go right to reconciliation.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I seem silly.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I agree with both of you, but just for our listeners,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I'll make the argument for regular order. I'm now a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: centrist pundit. You can find me on Media Press on Sunday.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Simpson, Bowles, Favreau. Here we go.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be on the round table. So if
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: you go the regular order, you show voters, the media,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Republican politicians, and maybe most importantly, moderate Democratic senators like
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, John Tester, that you are willing
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: to work in a bipartisan way. And you could perhaps
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: get love it, you reference this, but you could perhaps
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: get like a smaller deal done, where and you notch
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: an early win, where you get just the money for
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: vaccinations out the door immediately, because it's urgent, and we
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: need that money immediately. And you get maybe the votes
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: for the $ 1, 400 checks, because we saw a lot of
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Republican support for that just a couple weeks ago. So
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: if you get and some House Democrats, we're talking to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the American prospect about this, that this was a plan
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: that some House Democrats wanted called shots and checks. And
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you would pass that through, you would send to the Senate,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you would immediately get a bipartisan win on shots and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: checks out there. And then Biden could do the rest
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: of his plan in a reconciliation package with just Democrats
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: sometime in the early spring. That would be the case
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: for doing it regular order. And then You're Joe Biden
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and you can you you made you know, you kept
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: your promise on bipartisanship. You brought 10 Republicans along and
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: everyone in Washington cheers.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And I don't I guess like I I don't I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: don't totally understand the politics of that reconciliation bill where
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: you've taken out a bunch of really popular stuff and
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: left behind the parts that are a bit less popular.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: You know, like I don't.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the checks and the checks and
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the vaccine stuff is going to be.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: No, that's what I'm saying. Of course, that's what I'm
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: saying is those are the parts you've taken out that
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: are really popular. You've passed those to regular order.
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: Oh, I know.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: And then you're being left.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: That's a very good point.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: And I also, you know, the urgency of passing, it's
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: a little like the unemployment benefits extension are really, really important.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I've sometimes taken a backseat in coverage of the checks.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, like, what happens if you start
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: talking about reconciliation, delaying the unemployment benefits? Is that something
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: they're thinking about, including with the checks and The COVID
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and check... What are we calling it? Cash and COVID?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Shots and checks.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Shots and checks. Shots and checks. Shots and shots and checks.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: So I don't totally understand it. To me, it's like...
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: It sounds very.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: It's a very attractive title. Like, I want a shot
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and I do want a check.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, those are both great.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I want both of those.
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: If you pass another bill... You already have people saying,
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: we just passed a bill. We just did $ 900 billion.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: We've already done something. They're going to triple down on that.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Everyone's going to get squishy.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Go big.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Go fast. Do not delay. I hate that. Look, you
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: can also.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: You can wrap yourself and tie yourself in knots for
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out upsides and downsides. The biggest upside
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: of the budget reconciliation process is you deliver more relief
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: to more people.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: It's obvious.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: More people get help in the country.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Right now.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Right? That's the one. Now, the tough part about budget reconciliation,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and it's interesting, Tommy, that you mentioned that Bernie thinks
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: he can get it done very fast because a lot
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: of people are saying that just as a process, budget
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: reconciliation takes a ton of time because Republicans and others,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Democrats too, can introduce amendments to the process and they
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: have to debate every single amendment and vote on every
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: single amendment.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Is the word Voterama coming to me?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: The Voterama?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I hate that word. They promised up to a thousand
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: amendments in this process that they would have to take
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: the time to vote on. And now I think Schumer
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: can kill a bunch of them, but still, it could
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: take a lot of time and we do need to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: get stuff out the door fast. So there is a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: timing issue there too. And of course- you could piss
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: off the mansions and the cinemas of the world to
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: say the Republicans want to work with you. Why aren't
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you trying to work with them? But I actually think
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that Psaki squared the circle on this pretty well in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: her briefing today because they asked about the budget reconciliation
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: process and Joe Biden seemingly looking for a deal that's
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: done under regular order. And she said, look, if there's
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: a budget reconciliation process, Republicans can still vote for a
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: bill that goes through budget reconciliation if If Sanders and
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Pelosi send this through reconciliation, Joe Biden can still say
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to Republicans, look, I'd like a bipartisan bill here. I'd
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: like to compromise. So I don't think starting the process
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: through reconciliation necessarily forecloses the idea of working with Republicans,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: if you're into that sort of thing.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: When did we become CQ? What's going on?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Just trying to tell people what's going on here.
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: You referenced this, Tommy, but no matter which direction the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: president chooses, he's going to have to deal with Republicans
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: weaponizing Biden's call for national unity against him. Some political
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: reporters who. credulously treat the Republican criticism as if it's
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: on the level or already writing about this. The Washington
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Post had a story over the weekend headlined, quote, turned
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: off by Biden's approach, GOP opposition to stimulus relief intensifies.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: The story only got more annoying from there. Tommy, how
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: should the Biden White House respond to this criticism? And
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: what's the best way for them to keep working towards
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: unity while still getting their agenda passed?
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: I just think you have to blow past the... constant
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: process conversation and get to the substance, right? I mean,
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden campaigned on a bunch of policies and promises,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: and then he overwhelmingly won the presidency. His agenda has
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: been clear, and unity never meant abandoning that agenda because
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Marco Rubio made a weird hostage video and tweeted it
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: out when he was.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Crying, right?
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: The ideas Biden has put forward are bipartisan. 70% of
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: the country supports his COVID plan, according to the new
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: ABC poll. There's Bipartisan support for $ 2, 000 COVID relief checks.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: You know, 65% of the country wants us to rejoin
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: the Paris Climate Accords. Like 40% of Republicans want to
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: raise the minimum wage. I think you have to focus
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: on the results and what you're doing for people and
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: just get past this dumb, archaic debate about the process.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: It just, it feels very Washington to me.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, we've talked about this. Biden campaigned
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: on unity. He's been very clear on what unity means.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It means at this point, showing respect to people with
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: whom you disagree, trying as best as you can to
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: argue in good faith from a shared set of facts
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: and not burning the Capitol down.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Those are the three parts. He is living up to
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: his side of the three parts of what unity means.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean allowing Mitch McConnell and Marco Rubio. and
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: others to dictate the terms of the debate or the agenda.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And look, Tommy's right. Joe Biden will be judged as
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: a president on whether he succeeds in passing his agenda
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: and giving people genuine relief from this crisis and showing
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: progress on a number of policy fronts.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: That is it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Nobody will give a shit about the filibuster. Nobody will
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: care about these process debates. Nobody will care that Rob
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Porton says nobody from the White House has called me. Now,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: if you excuse me, I have a Zoom with Brian
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Deese together.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Nobody will.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: All of that will melt away. And all that will
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: be left is whether or not he's substantially delivered. That
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: is what will matter in the midterms. That is what
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: will matter in the general election to come.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Voters care about the ends, not the means. Bipartisanship is
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: a means. The end is what you pass. And they
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: are holding Joe Biden to a standard that Joe Biden
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: did not set for himself. Yes, Joe Biden said, I
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: think more Republicans will work with me. I know how
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: to deal with them. He definitely did say that. We've
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: all expressed our bewilderment that he believes that, but that
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: he did say that. But in his inaugural address, he
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: was very clear that unity doesn't mean agreeing on every policy.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: It's like you said, Levitt, it's making sure that disagreements
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: aren't based in crazy conspiracies and don't lead to violence.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: That's the standard that he set out himself. And, you know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: it's not just like Tommy said that so many Republicans
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: support so many of these policies embedded in this package.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: It's that like Biden is putting forward a plan that's
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: going to help Trump voters in red states just as
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: much as it helps Biden voters in blue states, right?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: He's trying to help the whole country, which, you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: is something you would hope that any president does. But
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the last president was like, going to war on blue states.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Right, literally.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, he overtly said he would not give money
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: to Democratic governors to bail them out. That's how we
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: talked about COVID relief.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: You want to talk about unity, like Joe Biden's going
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: to help all these states.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: I also, I find it so exhausting, this suggestion that,
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you know, he's being hypocritical by using executive orders. Like
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden said he would get rid.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Of the Muslim ban because it's bigoted. It's horrible.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: It's a wretched thing that goes against everything we stand
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: for as a country. He didn't say, I'm going to
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: get rid of the Muslim ban by putting a bill
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: forward in Congress. No, of course, he's just going to
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: repeal the executive order that Trump put in place. This
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: debate ranges from bad faith to obtuse.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: And it's so.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: Frustrating to watch reporters sort of play into this and
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: focus on this as sort of like the central thing
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: He campaigned on ending the Muslim ban. People knew that
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: ending the Muslim ban would require an executive action. He
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: won not only the electoral college, but a 7 million
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: popular vote margin. That's why he did it.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Muslim ban. That's it. Lifting the trans ban as he
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: did today.
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: DACA.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Trump said he supported DACA.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I think the key piece of all this is that One,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: one aspect of unity that I think Joe Biden prizes,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: maybe it's, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: bank shot to unity, but it's governing without surprises. It's sensible.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: You're going to get news at the briefing and not
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: by a tweet at three in the morning, the briefings
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: will be regular.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I'll treat people.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: There'll be, it'll be calm and orderly and the lack
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: of chaos as a means of kind of lowering the
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: temperature in our politics. Joe Biden has that we are at,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: we are at a current rate of, uh, an incredible
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: amount of executive orders, zero surprises.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Zero surprises.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also like I think he said this inaugural
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: to something about like not every disagreement has to be
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: like a war.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: We try to just respond in good faith to the
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Republican disagreements, to the covid relief plan.
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: If the sticker price is too big for Mitt Romney
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, Mitt Romney doesn't
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: want to vote for it. That's okay. We'll see you
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: next time on some other piece of legislation, hopefully. Or
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: maybe not. Thank you for playing. Thank you for expressing
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: your views. We're moving on and we're going to pass this.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you for playing. Thank you for playing.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: We're good. Don't worry.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: We don't have to destroy Mitt Romney over this. He
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: just doesn't want to vote for the bill. That's fine.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: We're moving on. So before Democrats can even start moving legislation...
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Through all these relevant committees, the 50-50 Senate needs to
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: formally pass a power-sharing agreement that gives each party an
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: even number of seats on each committee, but makes Chuck
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Schumer majority leader, gives Democrats the chairmanship of every committee,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and allows Democrats to control the legislative schedule, an agreement
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: that's identical to the last time there was a 50-50
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Senate in 2001. But here's the catch. Mitch McConnell said
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: he won't support the power sharing agreement unless Schumer promises
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: not to kill the filibuster, a demand that Schumer has rejected.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Democrats can't take over committees, though, and freshman senators can't
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: receive committee assignments. until an agreement is reached. So business
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: is not completely blocked in the Senate, but there's a
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: lot of confusion there because there's a lot of people
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: who should be chairman or chairwoman of their committee right now,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: and they're not getting that gavel because Mitch is making
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: these demands. Lovett, what are the different ways this standoff
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: can be resolved here?
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Well, so it seems as though three broad ways it ends.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: One is that McConnell just cracks the One is that
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Schumer and the Democrats crack and make some sort of
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: unenforceable promise that is written in such a way that
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Schumer can pretend he didn't say it in six months.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know. And the other is that Democrats decide,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: fuck it, the filibuster is done because this obstruction prevents
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: us from doing the people's business.
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Did I miss one? What am I missing?
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah. The other one is they could say the
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: filibuster is done for this specific issue.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: Oh, well, right.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: They could, yes.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Republicans are filibustering this power sharing agreement.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: Get rid of the filibuster on the organizing resolution, which
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: would break open the entire debate.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: So there's basically like there's filibuster reform and then there's caving.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Tommy, why do you think McConnell picked this fight now?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Was it smart? Because it doesn't seem like I guess
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: we should also say that it's not just Schumer who
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: rejected this. Schumer has now the entire Democratic caucus behind him,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: including opponents of eliminating the filibuster like Joe Manchin and
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Kyrsten Sinema. They're all united behind Schumer on this. So
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: why did McConnell pick this fight? Was it smart?
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: It's a little weird, right?
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's sort of filibustering the existence of the
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: Senate right now, which is an odd mood for Mitch McConnell.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Mitch McConnell is.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: Shrewd but not always smart i mean i think he
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: might just be burning clock and trying to strip away
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: as much time from joe biden as he can in
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: terms of you know his ability to get stuff done
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: he's creating as many obstacles as he can for schumer
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: uh creating political hurdles for moderate democrats maybe in his
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: mind in the process and just being generally as obstructive
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: as possible because he's a pain in the ass i
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: agree with you though it is it's been uh heartening
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: to see people like Jon Tester and Manchin and other
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: Democrats come out and say, this is outrageous.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: We can't do this.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, Schumer's proposal, which a lot of Democrats on
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Twitter reflexively flipped out about, was to just go back
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: to the power sharing agreement from 2001. It's a very clear,
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: easy to describe as bipartisan plan. He might have overplayed
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: his hands here. I'm not exactly sure what McConnell's doing.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, Collins was quoted in one of these stories
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: basically giving an explanation for this. She's like, you want
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: to do it before there's an emotional, difficult, controversial issue
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: so that it isn't issue-driven, it's institution-driven, meaning promising that
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: you'll keep the filibuster. Which is basically her saying, I'm
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: really worried that if we had a debate about the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: filibuster because we were blocking an increase in the $ 15
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: minimum wage.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: That we would lose that fight among public opinion. And
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: so I want to do it while it's all about
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: process and institution, and most people don't know what the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: fuck we're arguing about.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: In practice, Mitch McConnell is blocking every issue. So I'm
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: not sure that that logic really holds up to people
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: that don't live in Northwest DC.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I think best argument for what
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: he's doing to me is this debate is coming. He'd
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: rather it be about process and institutions and norms than
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: about the minimum wage or COVID relief. He's now gotten
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: a few Democrats, like he's got Sinema on the record saying,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I'm against removing the filibuster and I'm not open to it, right?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: That's a better quote than he had a week before.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And the argument against it is he's pushing towards, he's
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: moving a big confrontation that limits his power closer, whether
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it's about the organizing resolution, which would just give Democrats
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: like Jon Tester and Manchin and Sinema reps, right? in
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: getting rid of the filibuster or bringing the debate, just
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: moving the filibuster debate forward for Democratic activists?
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: The break in the seal.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Well, this was, yeah, I was going to say, this
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: is the big question. This is sort of why we
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: should be talking about this, because what is sort of
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: the best strategy to convince Manchin and Sinema and other
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Democratic fans of the filibuster that it's time to kill it?
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Because the one thing that McConnell did that he probably
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: didn't want to do is, you're right, Lovett, he did
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: get a firmer quote from Sinema on this, but he
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: now has 51 Democratic senators on the record saying that
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Schumer shouldn't promise to keep the filibuster as it is.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: So he just inched the whole caucus a little bit
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: closer to filibuster reform. But now we have to figure
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: out what to do about Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and the rest of the crew.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's two things. I
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: think one, if we're talking about the filibuster, it's a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: harder conversation than when we're talking about an opportunity to
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: raise the minimum wage or a specific bill, right?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Exactly what Susan Collins was worried about.
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what Susan Collins is worried about. That's
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: what Graham has been worried about. They're all being completely transparent.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: They're like, let's do this fucking now. Let's try to
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: get them on the record now because it's on a
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: hot button issue.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Because we know our position is untenable among public opinion
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: when you get to a real issue.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And the other piece of this too is... Whether or
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: not you eliminate the legislative filibuster totally, which right now
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Democrats don't have the support to do, Democrats having it
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: as a cudgel is really important, which is why it's
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: a bit frustrating. The Sinema statement is pretty frustrating. It
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: went further than Tester and further than Manchin.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: It was strange.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Like, why are you going so far? Like, you can
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: just not be for it, but still want to govern.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: It was a bit like, I don't, I just don't
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: understand that statement. But what it also does is it like,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: it makes more acceptable to some of these moderates, perhaps,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: other reforms to the filibuster, like forcing Republicans who want
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: to filibuster things to stand in the Senate, changing it
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: from 60 votes to have to be yes to 41
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: votes that have to be no, right? Like there are
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of smaller tweaks that there are reforms before
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: removing the filibuster that would go a long way to
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: helping Democrats at least be in a better position to
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: pass their agenda that I think McConnell is making basically inevitable,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: if not far more likely.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there has to be some pretext where
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Republicans are obstructing something very popular. And it is clear
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to the public that the only thing standing between this
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: very popular piece of legislation getting passed is like Democrats,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, not just willing to
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: have 51 votes to kill the filibuster for this thing.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: And I think, I think we're going to get there.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Like we're, we're headed there, but I think until you
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: have issues to argue about, it's going to be tough
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: to just like talk about this and, sort of more
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: philosophical terms. All right, let's talk about the battle for
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: the soul of the Republican Party, which will soon be
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: tested again now that the House impeachment managers are set
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: to walk their article charging Donald Trump with insurrection incitement
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: over to the Senate this evening for a trial that
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: will begin now on February 8th. But after talking to
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: a dozen Republican senators, CNN reports that the chances of
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: conviction are slim and it's not hard to see why.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: The MAGA wing of the party is in revolt against
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: any Republican politician who hasn't been sufficiently loyal to the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: guy who did incite a violent insurrection with his attempt
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to overturn a Democratic election. You got to be loyal
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: to that guy. So, Tommy, the 10 House Republicans who
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: voted to impeach are facing all kinds of threats. Kevin
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: McCarthy's walking back his support for Liz Cheney keeping her
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: leadership role. Arizona Republican Party just voted to censure Cindy McCain,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Jeff Flake, Governor Doug Ducey. The first two for not
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: supporting Trump, the last one for not helping him overturn
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: the election. How much steeper does this make the path
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: to 17 Republican votes for conviction.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: In the Senate? I mean, I think it was always
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: very steep.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: I don't see any chance that they get 17 Republican votes.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: I really don't.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, you can watch in real time cowards like
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Marco Rubio finding arguments that impeachment is divisive and convincing
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: himself while on a Sunday show or like the Kevin
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: McCarthy flip-flop. from saying Trump's words at the fascist rally
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: inside of the attack to then saying the exact opposite
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: are just unbelievable. So with very few exceptions, Republican elected
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: officials are cowards. They're not going to break with Trump
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: on anything, even when their own lives were literally put
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: at risk. And even when he wants them to regurgitate
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: the lies, I mean, it's the cult of Trump. It's
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: the same problem that's existed for a very long time.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: I do think that like the Arizona Republican Party is
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: a bit of an outlier in terms of just how
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: absurd it is. But, you know, there was that infamous
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: quote to the Washington Post by some Republican official who said,
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: what's the downside in humoring him when it comes to
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: supporting the lie that the election was stolen or that
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: there were these vast irregularities or that it's somehow just
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: appropriate to ask questions about the election results?
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Here's the harm. You guys convinced all of.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: Your Republican voters that the election was stolen, and now
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: they are furious at you for not doing anything about it.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: I think It's only going to get worse for some
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: of these guys if they support impeachment and they're all
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: worried about a primary challenge.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: So, Levitt, Axios reported that in almost every Republican state
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: or district, most voters are livid that Republican leaders didn't
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: fight more to overturn the election and support Trump after
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: the insurrection. Um, What does this say about the future
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: of the party? Maggie Haberman last night tweeted that Trump
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: has for now backed off his threat to create a
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: new MAGA party or Patriot party. She said one of
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the reasons he's backed off the threat is because it's
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: hard for him to talk about primary challenges in the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Republican Party if he's also supporting.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: The third party.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Someone told him that maybe those two things don't mix.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: But he is threatening a lot of primary challenges in 2022,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: like Tommy just mentioned. So like what what is all this?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: What does all this sort of say about the future
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of the party?
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: So first of all, I just there's a great quote
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: about what's happened to Kevin McCarthy since he's sort of
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: flip flopped on on this. And it's We're eating shit
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: for breakfast, lunch, and dinner right now, which made me
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: so happy. Enjoy it, Kevin. You deserve it. You deserve
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: nothing but meals of shit for what you've done. Senate
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Republicans do not want to say anything about the substance
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: of the allegations against Donald Trump. That's a good sign, right?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: They really are afraid to say, they don't want to
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: say they support him. They want to use a completely
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: manufactured constitutional argument that, oh, you can't You can't try
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: a president after they leave office. That doesn't make any sense.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Next thing you know, we're impeaching old presidents for no
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: reason all of a sudden. It's mayhem. So it doesn't
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: make any sense. But that's what they're rallying behind because
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: they don't want to deal with this on the substance
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: because they recognize that there's– a broad coalition of Americans
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: who reject insurrection. That's good. But they're terrified of their base.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: They're on the losing side of the insurrection issue.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Anti-insurrection is a broadly popular position in American politics. Sadly,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: it is not as popular as you would like it
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: to be in the Republican base because all of these
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Republicans have had the audacity of listening to the right-wing
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: news sites of OAN, Newsmax, Fox News, and all these
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Republican officials who said that the election was stolen in
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: one way or another. And these people have said, okay, well,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: we believe you. Now let's act on it. Let's follow
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: what you're saying to its logical conclusion. And that was
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: obviously something they never wanted anyone to do. Josh Hawley
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: never wanted anyone to believe him, right? Ted Cruz never
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: wanted anyone to believe him, but they do. They believe
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Lou Dobbs or they've chosen to believe Lou Dobbs. They
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: believe OAN, they believe Newsmax, and this is a huge
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: fucking problem. And, you know, from the point of view
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: of Democrats, I don't know what we should be saying
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: other than if you want to unite the country, join
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: us in rejecting violence and insurrection and show support for
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the peaceful transfer of power. That is what this impeachment
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: vote is all about. And let these Republicans, you know,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: make whatever bullshit argument they want. But we are going
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: to be dealing with a radicalized nationalist Republican base for
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: a long time because they made a very smart decision
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: of locating themselves in less populous states and less populous
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: parts of the country. So, yeah, I mean, we were
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: where we were before the election. We're where we are
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: in the weeks since the election in dealing with this crisis.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I will say, too, that it also shows that the
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: source of the radicalization is not just Donald Trump.
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Because the guy is gone. He doesn't have his Twitter account. Now, granted,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: they're still afraid of him. They're afraid of his organization,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: you know, giving them primary challenges. But the people who
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: are riling these folks up are on Fox News, on OAN,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: on Newsmax. It's the right wing media that is riling
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: these people up. It's the crazies in Congress that they
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: elected that are riling the base up. Like this problem is,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you know, it was before Donald Trump came into our lives.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: It was a problem in this party. And now that
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: he's gone, it's still a problem. It goes far beyond
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. What do you think about like Democrats' role
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: in all this? Like, is there anything we can do
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to exploit these divisions or do we just sort of
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: stand back and root for chaos?
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: That's a good, it's a hard question. Yeah, it's tempting
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: to sit back and cheer for the Patriot Party and
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: hope it sort of cleaves off a big chunk of
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: the GOP and then they both lose elections. I don't know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: that strategy gives me flashbacks to 2016 and all the
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: very Machiavellian takes that I myself participated in about how
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: Trump winning the Republican primary was the best thing that
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: ever happened to Democrats because he could never win the
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: general election. Hillary Clinton is going to steamroll him and blah, blah, blah.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: I think long term that a sane, healthy opposition party
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: is a very important and a very.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Good thing in any democracy.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: Institutions that don't have loyal opposition, if they don't have
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: strong institutions, get in big trouble. I worry about the
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Republican Party becoming even more extreme and the damage that
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: that could do.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: So it's bad.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the only long-term solution for Republicans
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: who want to push back on Trump and the forces
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: of Trumpism that are requiring that they lie to their
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: voters all the time about everything is to speak candidly
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: and tell the truth about what happened in the election
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: and what he's saying today. But I just, you know,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: every day that goes by, I have less faith that
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: the majority of elected officials in the Republican Party are willing.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: To do that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I don't want to sit here and
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: root for all of these MAGA crazies to win primaries
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: because somehow that's going to be easier for us to win,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: though it may be easier for us to win. But
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I think we need to make clear, Democrats need to
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: make clear to voters that the Republican Party is in
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: the thrall of extremists, right? Like they spent 2020 2020
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: calling us radical leftists who loved Antifa. And, you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: there's potentially evidence that sub-presidential level that it worked in
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: some House and Senate races. They've Not all, particularly Georgia,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I would say that strategy failed. But like they're going
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: to do it again now that we control the White
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: House and Congress. They're going to say that we went
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: too far, that we went too far left for extremists.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: We have to actually make clear that these people are
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the real extremists. We have to make clear that people
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: know that this is the party that has sent QAnon
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists. to Congress, that people know that this is
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: who's driving the train here, that it's the Arizona Republican
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Party that's in charge, and the Texas Republican Party, who
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: now has the QAnon slogan on their Twitter account. It
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: has to be made clear that this party is in
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the thrall of radical extremists, and that's what we should
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: start calling these people. Pretty simple. I mean, you know,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: like they are the one good sign here is like
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: they're not they're not super happy about this because like
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: this morning, Rob Portman announced he's retiring at the end.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: And so he's not going to run again in 2022.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: So now we have an open seat in Ohio. You
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: would think that because like Ohio has now gone Republican
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: on the presidential level two times in a row, Republicans
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: would be pretty happy. They don't seem super confident that
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: they're going to win that seat back, though. I'd say
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: they're probably favored. Um, but the, probably the reason they
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: don't feel super confident is because like Jim Jordan's going
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: to win that primary or someone maybe even further to
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: the right. And that's going to make a seat that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: could have been easier for them. Probably a little harder.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: I think you're right that, you know, if Jim Jordan
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: wins that primary, he is an extreme human being. He's
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: an extreme partisan. He's a kind of a nut personally,
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: and he could make it harder for them to win.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: I think that it's just the odds are that. what
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: will happen here is that all the people running for president,
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: the Ted Cruz's, the Josh Hawley's will kind of lead
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: the way and set the agenda when it comes to
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: whether or not they hug Trump or not, whether or
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: not they're playing for this MAGA base, because they're all
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: going to be looking to win that 40% of a primary.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: And that's all that they will really care about. And
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: that's why the sort of extreme trajectories in political parties
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: can become self-reinforcing and things just get worse and worse
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: and worse. And we've seen it in history. We've seen
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: it when people hugged Goldwater or a hug Nixon, even
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: after he was disgraced. I mean, the Republican parties tended
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: to just tack to the right and it's almost, um,
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: you can't slow them down. So I, I just, I'm
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: not very hopeful about the fever breaking. You know, you're
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: seeing online, like the QAnon people are now deciding that,
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: you know, Biden's inauguration was a deep fake. I mean,
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: there's just like, there's a lot of weird things happening.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I've never been less confident about the fever break.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Me too.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to like, look, if we had, If
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: we had proportional representation, then the Republican Party would be
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: two parties. There'd be a conservative party and there would
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: be this nationalist revanchist movement. And because that was hidden
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: from view and because a lot of mainstream Republicans spent
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: decades indulging, encouraging, making use of right-wing misinformation, Rush Limbaugh,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: you know, the Southern strategy, decades of kind of just
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: sort of hammering uh, um, the base of the party
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: until they were just a bunch of frothing at the
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: mouth nationalists. Uh, they are now at a place where
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: if there really were a proportional representation, you would have
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: a small Republican party competing against a growing nationalist movement.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: It is a conservative fringe attached to a nationalist party. And, uh,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: all of these people are fighting against, um, fighting against
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: that momentum. Liz Cheney, someone who a few years ago
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: we would have called an extreme and dangerous figure, now
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: a rhino.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Rhino Liz Cheney.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Mitt Romney. I mean, look, a system in which telling
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: the obvious, undeniable, unassailable truth, where that's brave, is a
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: broken system. It's broken. The Republican Party is fundamentally broken.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And it won't change by just encouraging people. It won't
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: change by yelling at the Times about their headlines. It
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: won't change about both sides' shit from the AP. It
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: will change when there's a fundamental shift in the way
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: millions upon millions of Americans currently get their information and
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: what information they seek out. Because by the way, when
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Fox News showed the tiniest bit of moderation, still hateful,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: still ridiculous, still spreading misinformation, millions of people sought out
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Newsmax and they sought out OAN. So yeah, there's a
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: supply problem in terms of what people are seeing, but
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: there's also a demand problem and that is self-replicating. So
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: it is a dangerous and long-term problem.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Well- When we come back, Tommy will ask new White
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: House Press Secretary Jen Psaki whether Biden's inauguration was fake.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: I am thrilled to welcome on the show the new
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: White House Press Secretary, my old friend, Jen Psaki.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Jen, it is so great to see you.
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: It's so good to be here. This is so fun.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: This is so fun.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: I'm really excited to dig in today on Air Force
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: One colors, the Churchill bust, like all the big issues.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: Those are the only things.
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: I will talk with you about. So let's start with
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: the Churchill bust, which, by the way, was a controversy
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: 10 years ago, which you and I both remember.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: We all lived it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: So full disclosure for listeners, we've been friends since like 2004.
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: We literally sat next to each other in the White
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: House for a couple of years. So this is the
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: most biased interview I've ever done in terms of the person.
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: And also, I gave you a tour of the Kerry
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: campaign headquarters. Do you remember this?
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: When I applied for that job.
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: When you applied for a job. And then you went
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: and worked for Barack Obama, who was running for Senate.
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: And I was thinking to myself, he's missing out. He's
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: missing out. Kerry's going to be president. Who knows who
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: this Obama guy is? So I didn't have a lot
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: of foresight at that point in time.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: Listen, you were doing the right thing. Everyone was working
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: to make the country a better place. But so like, look,
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: this is my first question, right? Like, I just want
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: to know what it's like to be back. So listeners
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: know the West Wing is tiny. When you see Jen
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: briefing at the podium and then like walks when she
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: walks out when the briefing is over. That actually goes
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: into an office. And when Jen and I sat in
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: that office, it was like half the size of a
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: studio apartment and we had eight people in there. What
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: are you guys doing in a COVID time? Like, do
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: you have your full team in the building? Are you
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: working remotely?
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: No, it's so different. One, we're all wearing N95 masks
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: and I'm not wearing one right now. It's right here,
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: but because I'm in my office, but. We're wearing N95
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: masks and we have a much smaller footprint in the building.
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: So it almost feels like the end of an administration
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: in the sense that there are just so few, there
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: are far fewer people here. Now, what is very familiar
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: is some of the same secret service agents, some of
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: the same people at the White House mess, which is
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: where you go. It's basically like a cafeteria. Like if
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: you belong to a summer swim club, you go up
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: and you order a grilled cheese sandwich. Some of the
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: same people. And there's so many friendly and familiar faces, um,
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: So there's some similarities. Last week, Brian Deese, the NEC director,
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: which is so funny when I say that out loud,
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: he's brilliant, but I still feel like we're kids.
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: We did a briefing together last week, and before we
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: went out, I looked at him and I said, should
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: we tell Dan and Larry Summers we're doing this? Like
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: we were these rogue actors going out to brief the press.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: So there is still an element of it that feels
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: a little bit surreal because– you know, you and I
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: were both kids in this place and it's, um, it's
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: just an adjustment.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: It's amazing.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: And look, so on top of us getting older, like
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: the media landscape has changed a lot over the last decade. One,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: one example is the fact that I'm interviewing you right now.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: And that you're.
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: Kind of a renowned, uh, podcaster with a massive following.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: So yes, that's changed. You know, I read underwear ads
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: for a living.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: Jen, but, um, you know, you also have, You have
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: Sean Spicer reportedly applying for credentials. There's all these like
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: new partisan outlets. So before the Trump folks came in
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: and they like, you know, got rid of the briefing
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: for a period of time, there were conversations about like, OK,
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: how do we take this thing that is sort of
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: anachronistic and make it more substantive for the press, less
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: performative for TV? Is that something you're able to think
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: about or talk about with the White House Correspondents Association
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: or is it too soon?
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: You know, it's interesting because if we had been coming
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: in or if Hillary Clinton had won and we had
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: been sitting down with their team to have a conversation,
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: you and I maybe would have given similar advice, which
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: is start from scratch, do something different. The briefing is
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: a bit outdated. You want to figure out a way
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: of providing information to the press. And the truth, you
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: and I both know, it's very efficient because it forces
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: people in the building to put forward policy answers. I
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: would say kind of in this moment in time, we
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: didn't go to the Correspondents Association and say, we want
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: to reduce the grief and we want it to be different.
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: We felt like we were coming in.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: At a time where the public has been through a
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: version of.
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: A trauma, and actually the press has in some ways
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: as well.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, truly.
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: Because they weren't getting access to information. They didn't have
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: access to policy experts. I mean, never mind information from
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: the press secretary every day, but more people who were
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: running the policies. And we felt like part of our...
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: rebuilding trust with the public was returning this briefing to
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: five days a week and doing it in a way
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: where it was incumbent upon us to try to maintain
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: a calm tone at this moment because people have been
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: through a trauma and they need to heal and realize
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: we're going to disagree, but it doesn't mean we have
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: to shout.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: At each other.
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: That may come with disagreements, but that's how we wanted
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: to start it off.
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: Well, I was very impressed watching you do a briefing
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: at like 730 at night on an inauguration.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: That was beyond the call of.
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: Duty that day. I mean, I had five cups of
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: coffee that day and I couldn't sleep that night. Hence,
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: I did call Peter Ducey, Steve Ducey times the next day.
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: But but, you know, there's just so much adrenaline going
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: into the first day and thinking I get all these
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: texts that morning that were like, the country is counting
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: on you, waiting for you to succeed. And I was like,
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: oh my God.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: So Jen, I mean, there's so many familiar faces in
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: the Biden administration from the Obama days, but it has
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: been so interesting to me to hear how some of
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: those same people talk about how the thinking has evolved
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: on policy. For example, Jared Bernstein, top economist, Joe Biden
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: has worked for him for decades, including back during the
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: Obama years. I heard him talking about how in 09
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: and 10, economists were worried about the unemployment rate getting
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: too low because that might lead to inflation. Now there's
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: new data, there's new thinking, and the economists are not
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: really worried about full employment leading to inflation.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: It's just sort of like not an issue. You were
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: in meetings then.
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: In 2009, about the Recovery Act, you're in meetings now
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: about President Biden's COVID relief package. How do you feel
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: like the approach or the thinking has evolved over time?
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: You know, what's been really, I realize I'm biased because
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: I speak on behalf of this White House, but it's
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: is that there has been an evolution, right? It hasn't been.
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: President Biden was Vice President Biden. We're going to do
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: things exactly the same way. I mean, absolutely not. I mean,
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: first of all, the country has evolved, right? And there
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: are issues. I mean, the beginning of the Obama-Biden administration,
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: the president and vice president weren't out there in supporting
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: gay marriage. I mean, that is like insane to think
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: about at this point in time, right? But there has been,
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: you referenced on economic and the approach to economy and
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: economic growth. I mean, one of the things we've been saying,
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: which is still an adjustment for me to say because
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: of 2009 is, that the danger is really that the
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: package is too small, right? And that is reflective of
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: the lessons we've learned. If we don't do a big
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: package now, then what? We're gonna have fewer people who
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: get to apply for unemployment insurance. We're not gonna have
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: money to reopen schools. It's just a very, there are
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: certainly lessons learned from the past, substantively on policy too.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: I mean, one of the issues we were just talking about,
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: which is a good central one to your heart is
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: China and how, you know, during the Obama-Biden administration, there
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: was a view, there was a hesitation to make the
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: relationship uncomfortable, right? We were very careful about how we
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: talked about every aspect of the relationship. Nobody wanted anyone
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: to be uncomfortable and that was a bipartisan approach. And
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: now you have the Biden administration and frankly, many Democrats
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: and Republicans saying that wasn't the right approach. Things have
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: gotten worse. They've become more aggressive. The economic relationship is
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: more problematic and we need to take a different approach.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: It's some of the same players, but one of the
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: benefits is certainly some of the lessons learned on policy issues.
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: And I'm seeing that also in communications. I mean, remember
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: we talked about the health care bill as bending the
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: cost curve. I still don't know what that means.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: No, no one does.
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: And by the end, you know, of course this was
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: not by the end, it was clear from polling and
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: talking to a bunch of American people that really what
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: they wanted to know is that their kids could stay
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: on health insurance.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: So there are kind of lessons you've learned in all
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: of the categories. I mean, we'll still mess up a lot,
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: but we are, we are learning from the past, the
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: last democratic administration too, that many of us served them.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: It does feel like you guys have really simplified a
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: lot of these arguments. And I am grateful for that
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: because I don't think people want complicated answers.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: What is it like for you?
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, A month ago, you were just one of
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: us schlubs living in a seven month lockdown or whatever
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: it was. Now you're handed this massive problem of getting
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: a pandemic under control and the part of the team
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: trying to fix it. Like, how has that changed your life?
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: Are you able to get vaccinated? I mean, are they
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: are they taking care of the people who are now
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: trying to manage this issue?
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: So we did about three dozen of us got vaccines
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: two and a half weeks ago. And we'll get our
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: second dose. And what they're trying to do, the White
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: House Medical Unit, is get more people vaccinated, especially people
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: who will be around the president. And as you know,
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: like people who have to be here for national security
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: reasons because they need access to classified information. So, yes,
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: in that sense, we're certainly being taken care of. I
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: will acknowledge, and I guess me, I don't know if
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: you guys are doing things in person or how much
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: you're doing things in person, but it is very strange.
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: It is, it is, there's a social awkwardness to all
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: of us, right? Because we haven't been around people. So
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: I just ran into, um, Lloyd Austin's secretary, Lloyd Austin's wife,
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: and I believe it was his sons in the hallway.
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: And they said, oh, hi. And I didn't really know
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: what to do. It's like, do I shake your hand?
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: We did elbow bumps. Like the whole thing feels kind
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: of funny and a little bit awkward. But yes, they're
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: trying to make sure, I mean, obviously that the president's safe,
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: that we're safe. The press are safe. I mean, we're
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: concerned about that too. The press have to be tested
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: every single day they're here too. So it's a new
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: universe of an approach here.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, an NSC meeting is like just begging
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: to be a super spreader event. I mean, how do
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: you shove a bunch of people in a basement conference
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: room together and not let them open a window?
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, we have like morning calls and evening
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: wrap calls and things like that. And what's so different is,
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: you know, they used to be they used to be.
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: And when, when Dennis McDonough was the chief of staff,
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: he had this like huge table that was like two
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: tables and there'd be 20 of us in there. And
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: you'd be looking around thinking, what does the OMB director
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: have to say today? Well, that'd be interesting. And now
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: we do it. We're here, but we do them on video.
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: So you're in your office and you know, Kate Bedingfield
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: is in the office next to me is on her,
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: you know, screen. I'm on my screen. Ron Klein's on
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: his screen because we don't, I mean, we all want
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: to be safe too. That's smart. That's another, but it's
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: also weird. So it's so weird. Yeah.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: It does have a very nerdy like NSC sit room
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: connection vibe to someone at the Pentagon for no reason
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: when they could have commuted.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: But no, you guys are very smart to be safe.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I like it. So I know you're so short on time.
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: You may have noticed that there is a very stupid
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: debate breaking out in the media about the word unity.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: It seems to range from bad faith to this sort
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: of like absurd, obtuse, maybe overly literal definition that suggests that,
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: you know, unity means President Biden was going to renege
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: on all these promises he made during the campaign because
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: some of them make Marco Rubio sad. Can you just, like,
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: tell listeners, what does unity mean for President Biden?
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: I have so many thoughts on this. I mean, people ask,
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: what are going to be your markers? I'm like, what
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: does that even mean? I mean, it's not, you know... So,
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: I mean... Look, I think part of this from President
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: Biden's view is basically the vibe you're sending, right? Are
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: you open to engaging with people from both parties? And
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: are you open to engaging? And that doesn't just mean
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: in Washington, right? This is like a small little universe.
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: This is like, are you going to talk to Democrats
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: and Republicans who are elected officials? Are you going to
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: make an effort to talk to, you know, people who
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: didn't vote for you? To, you know, talk to them
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: about what you're going to do on COVID? So- I
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: think part of it is making sure, and he's very
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: focused on this, making sure when he's communicating and using
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: the bully pulpit of the presidency to the degree that
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: still exists, it still exists in the beginning of a presidency,
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: to communicate not through a partisan lens, but to all
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: of the public so that they can trust in the
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: information that is coming from the president and They may disagree.
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: That's fine. They can trust in the data that's being presented.
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: They can trust that he's trying hard for them. Right.
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: Even if they disagree. So, you know, it's more about
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: his approach and his commitment. You know, I feel like
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: all of us have commented during the Trump administration about
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: in moments of crisis, which we will have them. you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: who the public looked to, who was their moral compass, right? And,
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: you know, when there's a shooting in a community or
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: at a school, people don't look at that through a
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: partisan lens. It eventually gets there on, you know, gun safety.
• 57:43
  Speaker 5: They look at it like they want somebody who's sitting
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: in the Oval Office is going to tell them it's
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: going to be okay. And this is a terrible moment
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: for our country. And I think what President Biden is
• 57:54
  Speaker 5: trying to do is kind of return the moral compass
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: and leadership to the White House and certainly to the
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: Oval Office. So, you know, that's part of his approach.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: And then just last question for you.
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: I saw, you know, Brian Deese, who you mentioned earlier,
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: did have a call over the weekend with a bipartisan
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: group of senators to talk about President Biden's COVID relief package.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Do you guys feel like there's any progress getting made? And,
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: you know, I've seen like Mitt Romney, for example, saying
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: He thinks we should maybe break off pieces of the
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: bill and pass that. Are those compromises on the table
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: in your view?
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: You know, it feels really foreign to people because the
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: last few years have been so weird that well, but
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: it's not. I mean, how it's working is how it
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: should work is how it's working, which is the president
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: puts forward his plan. He gives a speech. He says,
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: this is what I'd like to see. Here's what I've
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: talked to my health and economic team about how we
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: can address the crisis we're facing. And then let's have
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: a discussion about it. And that's exactly what we're doing.
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: So is there an openness for things, the sausage looking
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: different on the other end? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: it probably will. Right. The bill never looks exactly like
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: it looks in the first speech.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: As you and I both know. But I will also
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: say what's been so interesting, maybe about the questioning, but
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: even about how some. have responded to this on both
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: sides of the aisle is like the notion that Republicans
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: don't want to reopen schools. Of course they do. Or
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: the notion that Republicans don't want the American people to
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: have access to apply for unemployment insurance when we hit
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: the cliff in the middle of March. Of course they do.
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: Or vaccine distribution. This is not just a democratic issue.
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: 70% of the public, according to polls this weekend, supports it. So,
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: you know, I think it is, you know, we're going
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: to have this discussion. There will be things that look different.
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: The package will have different components. But it wasn't designed
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: like he wanted to say, I want to have the
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: $ 2 trillion package. He was like, these are the things
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: that are needed to address the crises we're facing.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Well, last, last question.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, have you thought about maybe showing some unity
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: by having President Biden get a little meaner on Twitter,
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: maybe attack his own vice president, single out some random journalists,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: you know, just sort of for unity's sake?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: You know, it's funny, when I was in Wilmington for
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: one of our events announcing cabinet nominees, he said to me,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: I hope that none of our nominees are going to
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: get into fights on Twitter. And I was like, who
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: on earth would that be? Like we forced them to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: be so he didn't mean anyone specifically. But He's been
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: pretty clear to all of us that he's not going
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: to govern by Twitter. We can be out there tweeting,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: of course. It's an important way to communicate with people,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: journalists especially, but that's not his vibe. People can go
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: to sleep at night and not worry something's happening in
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: the middle of the night, that he's not on his
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: phone tweeting in the middle of the night. That's not
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: going to be what people can expect from this administration.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: That seems like great advice from President Biden. Jen Psaki,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: it's so great talking to you. It's so fun watching
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: the reaction to your briefings on Twitter and people just
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: being like, first of all, loving you as a human being,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: but also remembering how good it is to get information
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: that is factual and straightforward from you. So thank you
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: for doing the show today. Thanks for all the work
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: you're doing.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: Keep it up.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: It's great talking to you.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Jen for joining us today.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: Dodging left and right.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: Thanks to the Churchill bust for just being there through
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: thick and thin.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard it.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard it.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's okay.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: Tommy, who would have thought that day one of the
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Obama administration, when you and Jen were sitting in lower press,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: that someday she'd be White House press secretary and you'd
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: be on a podcast.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: And I'd be interviewing her in my sweatpants from my
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: house on month, what, 10.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Of the lockdown? Who would have thought that?
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: I think it's plausible.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's plausible, too. I think it's plausible.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Jen being successful and me being a homebody, I can
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: see it. Top three issues unaddressed by the interview. Air
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Force One interior design, Space Force uniforms, daylight saving. I'm
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: on them all. Don't worry.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Daylight saving.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Wait for that. That's coming.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Dog with a bone on that one.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: All right, everyone.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: We'll see you later.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Look out, Ed Markey. I'm coming for you.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Narmal Konian, Yale Freed, and
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: every week.