Latest / The You Project / #2137 What's The Deal With Artificial Sweeteners? - David Gillespie

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#2137 What's The Deal With Artificial Sweeteners? - David Gillespie · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: I get a team. It's Gilespo and tiff of course
0:03
Speaker 1: it is. And it's me the bloke in the middle
0:05
Speaker 1: on the screen in front of me, a Tiffany and
0:07
Speaker 1: Cook over there at typ Central, just being her best self,
0:10
Speaker 1: living her best life, just trying to help him. Man,
0:13
Speaker 1: and you just drag themselves up another step in the
0:16
Speaker 1: middle of a fucking global crisis. She's a shining light
0:20
Speaker 1: in the darkness. Glespo on the other hand, Nah, so,
0:23
Speaker 1: but thanks, thanks him for being amazing.
0:28
Speaker 2: You're so welcome.
0:29
Speaker 1: No pressure at all, no pressure at all, sucking the
0:33
Speaker 1: shit kicker from Devonport. She's fucking done good. She dragged
0:37
Speaker 1: herself up by her bootstraps. Mary says that I don't
0:40
Speaker 1: know what the fuck that means. What does that mean, David,
0:43
Speaker 1: you're old? What does it mean?
0:45
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess it means you can lift
0:47
Speaker 2: yourself up of the ear boy your bootstrap. You should
0:49
Speaker 2: try it sometime.
0:50
Speaker 1: I've only had boots or straps. I might have to
0:54
Speaker 1: pull myself up by my thongs. That's the same, hey,
1:00
Speaker 1: kick off tifty use artificial sweetener. Ah, No, I used to,
1:05
Speaker 1: I don't tend to now, just you don't have anything
1:08
Speaker 1: like chewing gum, hot cho chewing chewy, yeah, chewy' a
1:16
Speaker 1: artificial sweetness in a lot of ship. I'm like, no,
1:19
Speaker 1: I hardly have any. And then I look through even
1:21
Speaker 1: my protein powder's got artificial sweetener in it. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
1:26
Speaker 1: there's like there's a anyway. So we're talking about that today, everyone,
1:30
Speaker 1: So pull your chair in a little bit, just you know,
1:33
Speaker 1: take your muffins off your muffins. What are those things on?
1:36
Speaker 1: Those warm things on your ears in winter? You must
1:39
Speaker 1: you muss Yeah, muffin muffins got artificial sweetener in them.
1:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you'd look a bit funny.
1:46
Speaker 1: With chocolate muffins on you is I'll tell you what differ,
1:51
Speaker 1: wear them and then eat them within a nanosecond. She's
1:57
Speaker 1: she's not angry. Now did you eating when you got
2:00
Speaker 1: home from the gym?
2:01
Speaker 2: I actually just had myself. Speaking of artificial sweetness, this
2:05
Speaker 2: would contain some I just had a protein, not chocolate
2:08
Speaker 2: with my protein, you know, my special concoction. Good so good.
2:13
Speaker 1: So gilespo I wrote an article everyone called the free
2:16
Speaker 1: Lunch Illusion. It's on substack. Go and have a read,
2:20
Speaker 1: and it's a really good article. But it's also they're
2:25
Speaker 1: all good, but it's also very relevant to one. Craig
2:28
Speaker 1: Anthony Harper, and I read it a couple of weeks
2:32
Speaker 1: ago when you wrote it, was it two weeks ago?
2:34
Speaker 3: Maybe I read it then, and then I reread it
2:38
Speaker 3: just now, and I'm like, this is like, I don't
2:43
Speaker 3: think I'm the high watermark for healthy living, but I'm
2:46
Speaker 3: pretty good.
2:48
Speaker 1: I don't. You know, there's most things that are about
2:51
Speaker 1: I don't do. But one thing I do do, and
2:53
Speaker 1: I have done for a very long time, is artificial sweetener.
2:58
Speaker 1: Before we jump into that, can I ask a couple
3:03
Speaker 1: of general questions and then you can give us the
3:06
Speaker 1: historical kind of story of the development slash evolution of
3:11
Speaker 1: the aforementioned substance. Are there any that, like some of
3:17
Speaker 1: the plant derived ones any better? Like a spar time
3:21
Speaker 1: to me, seems like just fucking cancer in a jar.
3:25
Speaker 1: That tastes Have you ever tasted a spar Time's.
3:29
Speaker 2: Tiff?
3:30
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, well fuck, that stuff's horrible. It just
3:34
Speaker 1: tastes like a chemical.
3:37
Speaker 2: Tifts are probably not old enough to remember tab cola,
3:41
Speaker 2: but I think in the seventies it was one of
3:43
Speaker 2: the first artificially sweet and soft drinks. Yeah, you know,
3:48
Speaker 2: and I can even remember the ads. People were frolicking
3:51
Speaker 2: on the beach drinking tab cola and.
3:56
Speaker 1: Where you met missus Gillespie.
4:00
Speaker 2: It contained a spartan and it's the taste you're remembering
4:06
Speaker 2: if you ever tried that. They're really metallic, a little
4:10
Speaker 2: bit sweet, but certainly had an aftertaste that could you know,
4:14
Speaker 2: level a small town. It just it wasn't good stuff.
4:18
Speaker 2: And because of that there was a market for it,
4:22
Speaker 2: though people were buying it. People were buying it because hey,
4:25
Speaker 2: this is something you can get without sugar in it,
4:26
Speaker 2: but was still a soft drink. And but so the
4:32
Speaker 2: marketing company's got a sniff of the potential there and said,
4:35
Speaker 2: all we've got to do is get something better than
4:36
Speaker 2: this awful, bloody sweetener. So it started an industry. Really.
4:43
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at the history books on
4:44
Speaker 2: this stuff, they say, oh, the start of all this
4:47
Speaker 2: was sacrin because sacram was discovered in the nineteenth century,
4:51
Speaker 2: and you know, by accident in a lab, as these
4:54
Speaker 2: things generally are. Chap was working on some chemicals, didn't
5:01
Speaker 2: clean his hands, ate his lunch, and suddenly his bread
5:04
Speaker 2: roll tasted really, really sweet. And that's because he'd managed
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Speaker 2: to get some sacron which he'd accidentally made all over
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Speaker 2: his bread roll. So that was sort of the birth
5:14
Speaker 2: of the artificial sweet industry. But the real birth of
5:16
Speaker 2: it was in the nineteen seventies, as our sugar consumption
5:20
Speaker 2: started to really take off and started to be recognized
5:24
Speaker 2: as a real problem. And there was a book written
5:27
Speaker 2: around that time called Oh, I think it was like
5:32
Speaker 2: Pure White and Deadly or something like that. Tiff can
5:35
Speaker 2: probably look it up. There was a major, major hit
5:39
Speaker 2: in the seventies and was starting to scare people about, oh,
5:43
Speaker 2: hang on, all the sugar we're consuming may not be
5:47
Speaker 2: a good idea. And it was written by the first
5:51
Speaker 2: ever professor in nutrition fellow by the name of Yadkin,
5:55
Speaker 2: who was the head of the School of Nutrition in London,
6:01
Speaker 2: was formed after the Second World War, and he looked
6:04
Speaker 2: at all the things that make us fat, couldn't find
6:07
Speaker 2: any evidence that fat made us fat, but found plenty
6:10
Speaker 2: of evidence that sugar did, and eventually produced that book,
6:14
Speaker 2: And as I said, it became a big thing in
6:17
Speaker 2: the seventies and started people thinking about maybe eating or
6:23
Speaker 2: drinking all this sugar isn't such a crash odd idea.
6:26
Speaker 2: Remembering that from an evolutionary perspective, drinking sugar is a
6:31
Speaker 2: very very new thing. As a species. We've been around
6:36
Speaker 2: for two hundred and fifty zerousand years. We've only been
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Speaker 2: drinking sugar in the form of soda water with sugar
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Speaker 2: added to it, which is what all soft drinks are,
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Speaker 2: probably since nineteen hundred or so, when soda fountains in
6:54
Speaker 2: the US started putting it in bottles and finding there
6:57
Speaker 2: was a bit of a market for it. So that's
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Speaker 2: really really recent.
7:00
Speaker 1: I had no idea it was that well in the
7:03
Speaker 1: context of in the nine eight hundreds. But as you
7:06
Speaker 1: you said before we did that TIF, what'd you find?
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Speaker 2: Yes, that was the book Peel White and Deadly.
7:12
Speaker 1: And what year was that? Published? Addition one September twenty sixteen.
7:18
Speaker 2: It says here no no, no, no, no, no no,
7:21
Speaker 2: it's a reprint. It was in the seventies. I think
7:25
Speaker 2: it was based on research he did in the nineteen fifties.
7:28
Speaker 2: But it, yeah, started a bit of a revolution. I mean,
7:31
Speaker 2: ultimately I capitalize on that by releasing Sweet Poison in
7:35
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, because by then everyone had forgotten
7:38
Speaker 2: what can have written and I guess. More to the point,
7:42
Speaker 2: Yudkin was guessing he could see what sugar did to people,
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Speaker 2: that it made them fat, gave them heart disease, gave
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Speaker 2: them strokes, gave them hypertension, wrecked their livers, wrecked their kidneys.
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Speaker 2: He could see that, and he can prove that by
7:58
Speaker 2: you know, giving lab rats the high doses of sugar
8:01
Speaker 2: and seeing what happened to them, and also occasionally managed
8:04
Speaker 2: to prove it with some experiments on live people in
8:08
Speaker 2: a hospital that he was working in, but not in
8:11
Speaker 2: terms of making them sick, but in terms of making
8:14
Speaker 2: them better by removing the sugar. But he didn't know why.
8:20
Speaker 2: We didn't know half of the hormones that were involved.
8:23
Speaker 2: When he wrote that book, there was no mechanistic description
8:28
Speaker 2: that would explain what he'd observed. By the time I
8:31
Speaker 2: wrote Sweet Poison in two thousand and seven, all of
8:34
Speaker 2: that science had been done, so I was able to
8:37
Speaker 2: take the observations he'd made and explain why it did
8:41
Speaker 2: what it did. So that probably started not wanting to
8:46
Speaker 2: blame on Trumpet a bit, but it probably started a
8:47
Speaker 2: second wave of interest in well, maybe we need something
8:51
Speaker 2: other than sugar in our food, you know, we seem
8:54
Speaker 2: to be consuming vast quantities and just reminder how much
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Speaker 2: we are consuming. It's something like forty tea spoons per
9:01
Speaker 2: person per day of sugar. And most people would say
9:06
Speaker 2: when you say that to them, I don't know who's
9:09
Speaker 2: eating my forty tea spoons, but it isn't me, probably
9:12
Speaker 2: me actually, But it's easy to get there. You have
9:18
Speaker 2: a heart foundation to prove. A bowl of breakfast cereally,
9:21
Speaker 2: I like sultana brown or something, and a glass of
9:24
Speaker 2: orange juice and you're a twenty tea spoons. You're at
9:27
Speaker 2: twenty tea spoons before you step away from the breakfast table,
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Speaker 2: let alone go near a mars Boro or a can of Coke.
9:34
Speaker 1: I had to do a gig once for a company
9:38
Speaker 1: that is in the wellness health nutrition space. I won't
9:44
Speaker 1: say the name, but it rhymes with boost and one
9:50
Speaker 1: of the I don't know if it's still the same,
9:53
Speaker 1: but one of their drinks had I could be wrong,
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Speaker 1: but I think it was seventy grand, so forty fourteen,
10:02
Speaker 1: forty fourteen teaspoons of sugar in this you know drink,
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Speaker 1: this health drink that people were rushing in to buy.
10:12
Speaker 2: And yeah, anyway, juice has always had a health a loo,
10:16
Speaker 2: but it's it's got exactly the same sugar content as
10:20
Speaker 2: coca cola. There's almost no difference in the sugar content.
10:26
Speaker 2: They're both about ten percent sugar. And you say, well,
10:28
Speaker 2: ten percent sua doesn't sound like a lot. It doesn't,
10:31
Speaker 2: but it's ten percent of a really large amount. So
10:34
Speaker 2: you know, most people are drinking a can of soft
10:37
Speaker 2: drink that's maybe four hundred mills, or a drink that's
10:41
Speaker 2: five hundred mills without even thinking about it. Well, that's
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Speaker 2: five times ten grams of sugar as fifty grams, and
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Speaker 2: fifty grams is what twelve fifteen teaspoons of sugar, and
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Speaker 2: people are having that without a thought. They're having that
10:58
Speaker 2: with a meal, not instead of a meal, and that
11:01
Speaker 2: amount of sugar can do extraordinary metabolic damage. So it
11:05
Speaker 2: in itself has created a market. And as I said,
11:10
Speaker 2: juice has this health halo, but it's identical from a
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Speaker 2: metabolic perspective. Our body doesn't care whether the sugar got
11:17
Speaker 2: squeezed out of a grape or an orange or an apple,
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Speaker 2: or whether it got squeezed out of sugarcane or in Europe,
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Speaker 2: a sugar beet or in the United States chemically removed
11:29
Speaker 2: from corn. It's all the same thing, and it all
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Speaker 2: does the same thing as far as our body is concerned.
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Speaker 2: So people who are aware of this have started demanding
11:40
Speaker 2: and you can see this in the market. There's sugar
11:42
Speaker 2: free everything everywhere. When I wrote Sweet Poison, you couldn't
11:46
Speaker 2: have gotten a sugar free anything in a supermarket. To
11:48
Speaker 2: save your life. You would have been You might have
11:51
Speaker 2: got diet coke, and that's about it. There was certainly
11:55
Speaker 2: no nobody offering you sugar free lollies or sugar free
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Speaker 2: ice cream, or know, sugar free yogurt or any of
12:02
Speaker 2: that stuff. It just didn't exist. Now it's all there
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Speaker 2: in most sections of the supermarket. Things that would normally
12:10
Speaker 2: be sweetened with sugar. There's usually at least one, two, three,
12:14
Speaker 2: four brands of something that are sweetened with something other
12:17
Speaker 2: than sugar. And yeah, this article that we're talking about
12:23
Speaker 2: is when I wrote to sort of break them down
12:25
Speaker 2: in terms of they're not all the same. Some of
12:28
Speaker 2: them are a lot safer than others. And it's good
12:32
Speaker 2: to know what's behind all those numbers on the label,
12:35
Speaker 2: because they are often just numbers. You know, if there's
12:37
Speaker 2: often not even a name that goes with this thing.
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Speaker 2: You'll see something like sweetener four to twenty or sweetener
12:42
Speaker 2: nine to sixty five or something like that on the label.
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Speaker 2: You won't see any sugar, which is a good thing,
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Speaker 2: But how bad are the other things? And that's what
12:50
Speaker 2: I thought was worth breaking down.
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Speaker 1: You know a couple of things. I want to read something.
12:57
Speaker 1: Obviously you know what it is because you wrote it.
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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, I remember, I just
13:01
Speaker 1: remembered the name for the so that drink that you
13:04
Speaker 1: don't know of tip. It was called tab and it
13:07
Speaker 1: was in this bright, fluo, kind of purply pink can,
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Speaker 1: as David said, with a lady running along the beach
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Speaker 1: looking magnificent, allegedly because of the tab, of course, and
13:19
Speaker 1: it would the hook or the kind of the tag
13:23
Speaker 1: was every can has just the two calories. And that
13:26
Speaker 1: was like mind blowing back in the day, right, we're like,
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Speaker 1: oh two calories. Fuck, I'm getting into it. My second
13:34
Speaker 1: question is, actually we'll go to that next, but I
13:37
Speaker 1: just want to read this bit. The first swindle was
13:41
Speaker 1: a neurological trick. For millions of years of human evolutions,
13:44
Speaker 1: sweetness meant a massive influx of energy was about to
13:48
Speaker 1: hit the bloodstream. Your brain expects fuel, but when you
13:52
Speaker 1: drink a diet cola, the fuel never arrives. The biological
13:55
Speaker 1: links become confused. The brain seeks the missing energy elsewhere,
13:59
Speaker 1: causing to overcompensate and eat more of everything else. It
14:03
Speaker 1: is a major reason why population studies consistently show diet
14:08
Speaker 1: soft drink consumers actually at a higher risk of type
14:12
Speaker 1: two diabetes than regular soft drink consumers. I did not
14:16
Speaker 1: know that tool when I read it two weeks ago,
14:19
Speaker 1: that blue I didn't know.
14:22
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, you go, people would do compensate. So, unless
14:27
Speaker 2: your diet consists of completely eliminating sugar, and if that's
14:31
Speaker 2: the plan, and certainly that's what I say in the
14:34
Speaker 2: Sweet Poison Quip, plan is what you should be doing.
14:37
Speaker 2: If your diet consists of I'm just going to have
14:40
Speaker 2: a diet coke when I eat at macas, then you're
14:44
Speaker 2: not really achieving anything because all you're telling the brain
14:48
Speaker 2: is get ready, I'm going to send you some coke
14:51
Speaker 2: calories here, and they never arrive, so the brain compensates
14:55
Speaker 2: by seeking them out elsewhere. If you are going to
14:58
Speaker 2: eliminate sugar from your die. You have to completely eliminate it.
15:02
Speaker 2: You have to take it. You have to take the
15:04
Speaker 2: coke out of your diet. You have to take the
15:06
Speaker 2: chocolate muffin out of your diet. You have to take
15:08
Speaker 2: the you know, the breakfast cereal that sugar sweetened, the
15:11
Speaker 2: sultanas that's you know, that's full of sugar, the orange
15:13
Speaker 2: juice that's full of sugar. All of it has to
15:16
Speaker 2: come out of your diet. Then drinking diet drinks will
15:20
Speaker 2: actually improve your health.
15:23
Speaker 1: To tell giless, by what your boyfriend in Brackets the
15:27
Speaker 1: chef made you the other day.
15:30
Speaker 2: The brownie. Yeah, it's the best chocolate brownie you've ever seen, David.
15:38
Speaker 1: But it was like a kilo. It wasn't like three brownies.
15:41
Speaker 2: Control I eat the whole lot. Yeah. But you know what,
15:47
Speaker 2: as I point out towards the end of that article,
15:50
Speaker 2: there is a sweetener you can use that doesn't do
15:52
Speaker 2: the metabolic damage and which behaves almost identically to sugar.
15:58
Speaker 2: It is not calorie free. It contained exactly the same
16:00
Speaker 2: number of calories as sugar, but it doesn't do all
16:03
Speaker 2: the metabolic tricks that sugar does. So the problem with
16:06
Speaker 2: sugar is it's half glucose and half fructose, and the
16:10
Speaker 2: fructose half of it is the bit that does the damage.
16:14
Speaker 2: It's the bit that our appetitive control system doesn't see.
16:16
Speaker 2: It's the bit that it's metabolized by our liver directly
16:19
Speaker 2: to circulating lipids. It's the bit that does all the damage.
16:23
Speaker 2: The glucose half is fine, it's just energy, and we
16:27
Speaker 2: are perfectly evolved to deal with a lump of glucose
16:31
Speaker 2: being ingested. It tells it, it's recognized by appetite control system.
16:34
Speaker 2: It tells us to stop eating, It tells us when
16:37
Speaker 2: we're full. It doesn't bypass anything in the liver. It
16:39
Speaker 2: isn't metabolized directly the fat unless we have already overeaten.
16:43
Speaker 2: So we've all got all the controls there for it.
16:45
Speaker 2: So the solution to this is, well, why not just
16:49
Speaker 2: sweetened with glucose and ignore the fructose half of it?
16:53
Speaker 2: And you can just buy glucose. It's sold as a
16:56
Speaker 2: product called dextrose, which has some sort of role in
16:59
Speaker 2: the making of bee, so you tend to get it
17:01
Speaker 2: from home brew shops. But it's just pure glucose and
17:05
Speaker 2: that can be used in most normal recipes if they're
17:09
Speaker 2: adjusted appropriately. And guess what you know. I've written recipe
17:13
Speaker 2: books that contain the appropriate recipes. But this isn't about
17:16
Speaker 2: pushing that. This is just saying you can adjust almost
17:20
Speaker 2: any recipe, including a brownie recipe, which my daughters have
17:22
Speaker 2: done because they love brownies to use dextros instead of
17:25
Speaker 2: sugar and they taste just the same.
17:30
Speaker 1: Is it. I think they have like glucose jelly beans
17:34
Speaker 1: at pharmacies.
17:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, glucosejelli is not a glucose jelly bean. So all
17:40
Speaker 2: all jelly beans contain glucose and sugar, and they could
17:44
Speaker 2: all call themselves glucose jelly beans if they wanted to.
17:47
Speaker 2: They need the glucose for the hard I'm not sure
17:51
Speaker 2: whether it's the hard bit on the outside or the
17:52
Speaker 2: soft bit in the middle, but one bit of it
17:54
Speaker 2: needs the glucose syrup, but that's probably the inside. So
17:58
Speaker 2: the there's nothing special about them. They're they're they're just
18:04
Speaker 2: like normal jelly beans. And yeah, it's marketing.
18:10
Speaker 1: I want to take a left turn and then we'll
18:11
Speaker 1: come back to the article fruit whole fruit yes, because
18:17
Speaker 1: obviously fructose is the sugar. Yes or no.
18:23
Speaker 2: Qualified yes in the sense that fruit from an evolutionary perspective,
18:29
Speaker 2: is nature's dessert. It was kind of hard to come by,
18:32
Speaker 2: really really sweet, and if you could get it before
18:35
Speaker 2: something else got it in the wild, then you deserve
18:38
Speaker 2: to get it. So it's from a from an evolutionary perspective.
18:44
Speaker 2: The reason for fruit is that trees need to convince
18:46
Speaker 2: animals to distribute their seeds. The best way to do
18:49
Speaker 2: that is convince them to eat fruit, swallow the seeds,
18:52
Speaker 2: and then you know, crap them out somewhere else where
18:54
Speaker 2: a tree can grow.
18:57
Speaker 1: Wow, a lot of sophisticated You are just always teaching.
19:03
Speaker 2: So that's the purpose of fruit and to do that.
19:06
Speaker 2: Trees started out with just glucose molecules, but some smart
19:10
Speaker 2: ones managed to mutate in certain ways bend a certain
19:13
Speaker 2: bit of the glucose molecule the other way. It became
19:15
Speaker 2: a fructose molecule, which is sixty percent sweeter than glucose.
19:18
Speaker 2: Animals preferred the fructose molecule than the glucose molecule, so
19:22
Speaker 2: the trees that had those tended to do better. They're
19:24
Speaker 2: the ones that have fruit, et cetera relatively rare sort
19:28
Speaker 2: of like people also ask about honey, Well, hang on,
19:30
Speaker 2: isn't honey natural? Yeah, it is, but it's exactly the
19:33
Speaker 2: same from a metabolic perspective as sugar. So people say, well,
19:38
Speaker 2: then why is that not bad? You know, why is
19:40
Speaker 2: that bad? It's a natural thing. Well, sure, but if
19:43
Speaker 2: you had to go get the honey yourself, you know,
19:46
Speaker 2: go and have a discussion with a bunch of bees
19:47
Speaker 2: about letting them have your honey, you might not eat
19:51
Speaker 2: that much of it. And when you look at dietary
19:54
Speaker 2: studies of what humans ate free, the invention of commercial
19:58
Speaker 2: sugar production, which was pre eighteen twenty, so before eighteen twenty,
20:02
Speaker 2: we had no means of producing large amounts of sugar
20:04
Speaker 2: and putting in our food. So before that, if you
20:07
Speaker 2: look at the average consumption in sugar equivalent from whole
20:12
Speaker 2: fruit and honey, it amounts to about two teaspoons per
20:16
Speaker 2: person per day, and so not much. And today our
20:21
Speaker 2: equivalent consumption of whole fruit and honey is still about
20:24
Speaker 2: two tea spoons per person per day. We've just added
20:28
Speaker 2: thirty eight tea spoons per person per day of commercially
20:32
Speaker 2: produced sugar. So we're evolved to deal with the levels
20:36
Speaker 2: of sugar we would expect to have from whole fruit
20:41
Speaker 2: and honey in our environment. So the way to think
20:45
Speaker 2: about it is this, treat it like nature dessert. Have
20:48
Speaker 2: it as an occasional treat. Don't freak out about it.
20:50
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not going to not eat an apple. If
20:52
Speaker 2: it's there, it's fine. Just treat it like that. Don't
20:58
Speaker 2: juice it, don't dry it, and don't eat it all
21:01
Speaker 2: the time.
21:03
Speaker 1: It's funny you say, don't try it. I remember one
21:06
Speaker 1: hundred years ago when I was a fledgling trainer and
21:08
Speaker 1: I was I don't know, I was in my twenties.
21:11
Speaker 1: So just after Jesus was here, one of my clients said, oh, like,
21:20
Speaker 1: it's all good. I have healthy snacks. And I said,
21:23
Speaker 1: what's your healthy snack? And they went, dried apricots. I'm like,
21:28
Speaker 1: how much dried apricots you have a day? And they went,
21:36
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was like a few hundred grams.
21:39
Speaker 1: And I went and I had a look at the
21:42
Speaker 1: calories in this fucking blew my mind. The calories in
21:45
Speaker 1: a whole apricot, like a fresh apricot, is forty give
21:50
Speaker 1: or take forty calories, oh for one hundred grams, and
21:55
Speaker 1: the same one hundred grams of dried apricot is two
21:58
Speaker 1: hundred and forty calories. So the same amount in terms
22:01
Speaker 1: of weight has literally six times the energy. Ergo, six
22:07
Speaker 1: times the sugar. Yeah, right, so the same one hundred
22:11
Speaker 1: grams versus one hundred grams, exact same volume weight whatever
22:14
Speaker 1: you want to call it, six times the sugar, because
22:18
Speaker 1: we'll extract the water from it. For God's sake. Don't
22:21
Speaker 1: that eat? If you need to eat apricotts, have fresh ones. Yeah.
22:27
Speaker 2: So more modern example is right, all right, the little
22:32
Speaker 2: boxes of dry saltonets that kids getting given them. They
22:36
Speaker 2: attacking to school, right, the tiny little boxes, and now
22:38
Speaker 2: they'll take them in a mouthful. That's the equivalent of
22:43
Speaker 2: half a kilo of grapes. No kid is eating a
22:47
Speaker 2: half kilo of grapes and eating their vegemined sandwich. But
22:51
Speaker 2: they'll knock those things off really easily. And that's carrying
22:54
Speaker 2: all the sugar of half a kilo of grapes. So
22:59
Speaker 2: never dried, never juiced, eat whole fruit as whole fruit.
23:04
Speaker 2: One two pieces a day, I would have thought is
23:06
Speaker 2: more than reasonable. Any more than that, you're probably overdoing it.
23:09
Speaker 1: And I think the interesting also interesting thing about that
23:12
Speaker 1: is mums and dads genuinely believe they're doing a good
23:16
Speaker 1: thing because they're putting fruit in their lunch.
23:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's non stop marketing about fruit. I mean,
23:22
Speaker 2: the juicing industry has driven non stop marketing since the
23:27
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, particularly orange juice manufacturers in California around the
23:32
Speaker 2: health halo of orange juice. They know it's coke with
23:37
Speaker 2: our bubbles, but if you can sell it, sell it.
23:41
Speaker 2: And that's what they're doing.
23:45
Speaker 1: With the kind of the brain trick of which you speak, grasshopper.
23:49
Speaker 1: Is that purely about chemistry biochemistry or is it about
23:56
Speaker 1: psychology and expectation or a bit of everything?
24:00
Speaker 2: Well, since psychology is just bes, I guess I guess
24:05
Speaker 2: it's purely about chemistry.
24:07
Speaker 1: No, that's bullshit. Could you say in your article people expect.
24:11
Speaker 2: Like I'm trying to drink it out to the normal pay.
24:19
Speaker 1: So what's happening in the gut when we take in
24:23
Speaker 1: you know, sacrano spa time or even things like stevia
24:27
Speaker 1: which get wheeled out as a healthier version of this stuff.
24:32
Speaker 2: There's there's sort of three groups of things you need
24:36
Speaker 2: to know about the first is the sugar alcohols, which
24:41
Speaker 2: so these are really common in a lot of the
24:44
Speaker 2: brand new things are out there. I don't know if
24:46
Speaker 2: you've had a look at them a supermarke, but you
24:47
Speaker 2: can get jellies and you know, imitations of milk bottles
24:50
Speaker 2: and raspberries and you know all raspberries and creams and
24:53
Speaker 2: all those sorts of sweets you probably have from your youth.
24:55
Speaker 2: You could get in the mixed bag lollies for twenty cents.
24:59
Speaker 2: These things. There's a lot of big market now for
25:03
Speaker 2: those in the supermarkets. The sugar free versions of these,
25:06
Speaker 2: they're hideously expensive, and they're full of sugar alcohols like sorbatol, multitol,
25:11
Speaker 2: iso manitol, and they got numbers like four twenty nine,
25:15
Speaker 2: sixty five, nine fifty three, four twenty one. Those sorts
25:17
Speaker 2: of things they're there. Those are not great. So what
25:24
Speaker 2: happens with those is, say, if you look at something
25:26
Speaker 2: like sorbatol, you absorb about sixty five percent of it,
25:33
Speaker 2: and that bit that you absorb gets metabolized immediately to
25:39
Speaker 2: fructose by your liver, so you might as well have
25:42
Speaker 2: just been eating sugar sugar, although yeah, it's only sixty
25:45
Speaker 2: five percent of it rather than the full whack. The
25:48
Speaker 2: problem is that the other thirty five percent ends up
25:51
Speaker 2: in your lawa in testine and is really effective as
25:55
Speaker 2: a laxative. So I don't know if you've ever had
25:58
Speaker 2: the fun of reading some of the podia. There's this
26:01
Speaker 2: meme that goes around of people who buy the sugar
26:05
Speaker 2: free gummy bears on Amazon, you know, the one kilo
26:08
Speaker 2: bag or the two kilo bag of sugar free gummy
26:10
Speaker 2: beers on Amazon, and some of the comments in there
26:12
Speaker 2: are hilarious, you know about the explosive diarrhea that they
26:16
Speaker 2: get for if they consume all of it.
26:19
Speaker 1: So if you're a bit bunged up, everyone, if you
26:23
Speaker 1: can't go out, yeah yeah, yeah, there you go. There's
26:27
Speaker 1: your little unhealthy kind of and it's a very constipation.
26:32
Speaker 2: At the very least, we'll give you a nice little
26:35
Speaker 2: stomach ache to go with your sweets. That's useless and annoying,
26:42
Speaker 2: I guess, but not dangerous. So useless in the sense
26:45
Speaker 2: that it's being metabolised to fractos anyway, annoying in that
26:49
Speaker 2: it can probably have a laxative effect if you eat enough.
26:52
Speaker 2: The ones that are more dangerous I have until recently
26:57
Speaker 2: been considered relatively safe, and this is another pair of
27:00
Speaker 2: sugarl caoles called erythrotol and xylatol SO nine six eight
27:05
Speaker 2: and nine sixty seven. The chewing gum chewing gum heaps
27:09
Speaker 2: of those in che chewing gum is the big thing.
27:11
Speaker 2: But also lately some of the brands of sugar free
27:15
Speaker 2: ice cream that have started appearing in the last few
27:17
Speaker 2: years are also beyond this stuff. So and they've been
27:22
Speaker 2: largely considered safe. Not much to worry about here, But
27:25
Speaker 2: there was a major study published a year ago twenty
27:30
Speaker 2: twenty four I think it was, that shows there is
27:34
Speaker 2: a real art takes heart attack slash stroke risk with
27:40
Speaker 2: these particular sweetness that has never really been proven before,
27:43
Speaker 2: it hasn't even been guessed at before. But Cleveland Clinic
27:47
Speaker 2: in the US found a strong association between blood levels
27:54
Speaker 2: of those sweeteners and probability of having a heart attack.
27:58
Speaker 2: So this is a population level study looking at you
28:01
Speaker 2: just measuring the blood levels of the sweetness versus what
28:05
Speaker 2: they knew about someone know whether they'd had a heart
28:07
Speaker 2: attack or a stroke over a three year period, and
28:10
Speaker 2: very very strong correlation. But as you know, correlation isn't causation,
28:15
Speaker 2: And there have been some really high quality work done
28:21
Speaker 2: since then that look at okay, but what's the mechanism here?
28:25
Speaker 2: And what they found is that a standard arethrotol sweetened
28:30
Speaker 2: drink spikes blood platelet clotting a thousandfold, so they can
28:35
Speaker 2: actually see it happening as the person drinks it, So
28:39
Speaker 2: it causes clotting, increases the likelihood of blood clotting if
28:43
Speaker 2: you're consuming this stuff. And so that's why they're now saying, Okay,
28:49
Speaker 2: these things are not getting a free pass. This is
28:52
Speaker 2: potentially extremely dangerous. So the things that the Cleveland Clinic
28:56
Speaker 2: could have observed, which is people who are who were
28:58
Speaker 2: consuming these things mostly from soft drinks and chewing gums,
29:03
Speaker 2: were well, actually not soft drinks. These are not in
29:05
Speaker 2: soft drinks. These are in chewing gums and ice creams
29:08
Speaker 2: and so on. People consuming these they notice the correlation,
29:14
Speaker 2: which is there is much higher risk of heart attack
29:16
Speaker 2: and stroke. Now they've proven why that would be so,
29:20
Speaker 2: so avoid at all costs would be my advice on
29:23
Speaker 2: those ones. Wow, that's really new research.
29:28
Speaker 1: Do you know, just because I'm thinking of a friend
29:30
Speaker 1: of mine who has one thousand chewies a day ballpark,
29:33
Speaker 1: what the increased risk of stroke or heart attack? Is
29:36
Speaker 1: by having lots of chewy. I mean, I'm sure I.
29:39
Speaker 2: Haven't got the numbers, haven't got the numbers on the
29:42
Speaker 2: top of my head, but I can dig up study
29:43
Speaker 2: for you if you want. So those ones previously in
29:49
Speaker 2: the safe camp, I mean, xylotoe has always been dodgy
29:51
Speaker 2: if you've got a pet, because xylote is the one
29:54
Speaker 2: that kills dogs. So you've got to be really, really
29:58
Speaker 2: careful about not letting dogs consume anything that's xylotol. And
30:02
Speaker 2: any any pet, any dog owner would tell you that
30:05
Speaker 2: that's well known. I see Tis nodding ahead there. She
30:08
Speaker 2: is well aware of that one. And Vets would tell
30:12
Speaker 2: you that straight away. Any any dog owner knows that.
30:15
Speaker 2: But this is a whole new level of concern because
30:17
Speaker 2: this actually endangers humans. So there's another category of things
30:26
Speaker 2: which are nowhere near in that category of badness. But
30:32
Speaker 2: these these are labeled not as sugars on the on
30:34
Speaker 2: the on the label, but as fiber. So these are
30:37
Speaker 2: things like inulin, polydexterros, wheat dextrin. They are not particularly
30:46
Speaker 2: bad in the sense that they do something immediately bad too.
30:50
Speaker 2: Where they're bad is that these things at the point
30:54
Speaker 2: of absorption in the intestine. They go through the point
30:59
Speaker 2: of absorb they feed the bacteria in your gut. The
31:02
Speaker 2: bacteria create fat as a result of it, which bypasses
31:06
Speaker 2: a critical control that we have for fat consumption called CCK,
31:12
Speaker 2: and that means that you're essentially having an unregulated source
31:17
Speaker 2: of fat in your diet, that is, bypassing your appetite
31:20
Speaker 2: control system. So not a good thing, but not immediately
31:23
Speaker 2: lethal either. But you might be wondering why you're not
31:26
Speaker 2: losing any weight when you're eating sugar free ice cream
31:29
Speaker 2: that's sweetened with these things, and that's where you generally
31:32
Speaker 2: find them in sugar free ice cream. There's the obvious things.
31:36
Speaker 2: You know, whenever you see reconstituted fruit, juice, agave, or
31:40
Speaker 2: coconut sugar on the label of anything, you might as
31:42
Speaker 2: well just see sugar. They're just sugar. Giving it a
31:45
Speaker 2: fancy name doesn't change it from being sugar. The ones
31:51
Speaker 2: that I say, listen, if you must have something sweet
31:55
Speaker 2: and during the withdrawal period from sugar, A lot of
31:58
Speaker 2: people do need this. They need the methodone for sugar addicts.
32:01
Speaker 2: You know, this is getting I certainly did it, and
32:04
Speaker 2: this is the kind of thing that gets you offered.
32:07
Speaker 2: You do naturally stop, by the way, because eventually your
32:12
Speaker 2: taste readjusts so much when you're off sugar that you
32:16
Speaker 2: become much more sensitive to taste once you're off sugar,
32:18
Speaker 2: because it isn't being blinded by the sugar, and these
32:21
Speaker 2: things start to taste like chemicals, and you'll probably stop
32:24
Speaker 2: consuming them all on your own, but in the meantime,
32:26
Speaker 2: So these are the things. These are the ones that
32:28
Speaker 2: you find in soft drinks, so a spar tame and
32:30
Speaker 2: also in hydration drinks and energy drinks, all that sort
32:34
Speaker 2: of thing. Are so a spa tame, acek and sucralose
32:40
Speaker 2: or sometimes called splendor. They're in the soft drinks. As
32:44
Speaker 2: far as we know, they're okay. They don't have any
32:49
Speaker 2: obvious immediate bad effects on people other than the one
32:52
Speaker 2: we mentioned before about if you're having a diet coke
32:55
Speaker 2: instead of a coke, but you still got sugar in
32:57
Speaker 2: the rest of your life, you're probably just going to
32:58
Speaker 2: compensate by eating more sugar. But if you're eliminating sugar entirely,
33:02
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of downside. But these guys, that
33:05
Speaker 2: being said, it is a chemical that's been in our
33:07
Speaker 2: diet for probably less than thirty years. Sugar was in
33:13
Speaker 2: our diet for two hundred years before we started worrying
33:15
Speaker 2: about it. Talk to me in two hundred years time,
33:17
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you whether these are safe. It's at
33:21
Speaker 2: the moment they look okay. And the same goes for
33:24
Speaker 2: the next pair, which people come across a fair bit,
33:27
Speaker 2: which is the stevia and monk fruit. So you'll see
33:31
Speaker 2: stevia among fruit on sugar free yogurts and things like that.
33:36
Speaker 2: Nothing obviously wrong with them, Okay, there aren't any metabolic
33:40
Speaker 2: downsides that we know of in these things. Don't buy
33:43
Speaker 2: for a second. There's business about, oh, they're natural and
33:45
Speaker 2: therefore better for you. There's nothing natural about either of them.
33:48
Speaker 2: They're extracted using very intense industrial processes. There artificial sweetness,
33:54
Speaker 2: but as far as we know at this stage, they
33:57
Speaker 2: don't do anything bad to you. I put all of
34:00
Speaker 2: these things in the category of use them like methodone,
34:05
Speaker 2: get them, use them to get you off sugar. So
34:07
Speaker 2: when you would have normally had a soft drink or
34:10
Speaker 2: you know, or something, have one of these instead. And
34:13
Speaker 2: if that's the only source of sweetness, then you're probably
34:16
Speaker 2: not doing any long term damage. Yeah, there's a new
34:21
Speaker 2: one on the market too, in the same category, something
34:24
Speaker 2: called alulos. You'll start to see that in a bunch
34:28
Speaker 2: of sweetness. The only oh sorry, there's one caveat. I
34:30
Speaker 2: have to stelia and and monk fruit. They are what's
34:35
Speaker 2: called high intensity sweetness, which means that you don't need
34:38
Speaker 2: very much of it at all to get the same
34:40
Speaker 2: impact sugar. So to keep the bulking right, So if
34:43
Speaker 2: you're going to say, give it to someone to put
34:44
Speaker 2: in a recipe instead of sugar, you have to mark
34:47
Speaker 2: it out with something. And what they often bulk it
34:48
Speaker 2: out with is a rethrotol, the one from before with
34:51
Speaker 2: the heart attack and the stroke risk. So you have
34:54
Speaker 2: to be a little bit careful about those because they're
34:56
Speaker 2: often mixed in with something else, so you have to
34:58
Speaker 2: read the label carefully.
35:00
Speaker 1: So many questions, Okay, can I ask you a couple
35:02
Speaker 1: of quick fire questions that you may or may not.
35:07
Speaker 1: I'm sure I can find the answer if I go
35:09
Speaker 1: and do my own research. But why are you here?
35:11
Speaker 1: So we know that the stuff in erythratol and the
35:18
Speaker 1: other one that I can't remember increases the risk of
35:20
Speaker 1: stroke and heart attack. Does it does it do any
35:24
Speaker 1: in general terms? Want better term brain damage or neural
35:29
Speaker 1: damage in general, like does it not that we know of? Right?
35:33
Speaker 3: Right?
35:34
Speaker 1: All right, next question or next thing I wanted to
35:37
Speaker 1: just bring up briefly that we've spoken about maybe twice
35:40
Speaker 1: in three or four years, is the fact that people
35:44
Speaker 1: don't think about the savory things that we buy having sugar.
35:48
Speaker 1: Like I think we spoke about barbecue sauce, which is
35:52
Speaker 1: generally over fifty percent sugar. So if you're putting, you know,
35:58
Speaker 1: if you're splotching twenty grand of barbecue sauce on your banger,
36:03
Speaker 1: your banger in bread, you now banging probably three.
36:06
Speaker 2: Teaspoons are there?
36:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, two or three teaspoons of sugar on top of that,
36:11
Speaker 1: and you know some of the dressings and some of
36:14
Speaker 1: the mayos and some of the you know, the sweetness,
36:17
Speaker 1: like the sauces that people just put in the wock
36:19
Speaker 1: and put on. You just got to put in some
36:21
Speaker 1: rice and chicken and tip this on and then you
36:24
Speaker 1: realize you're having fat and starch and sugar and some protein.
36:30
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing, Yeah, that's the thing is is
36:33
Speaker 2: we are conditioned to everything tasting sweet. The thing about
36:37
Speaker 2: sugar in everything is that it makes it necessary to
36:40
Speaker 2: have sugar in everything. So people get used to having sweetness,
36:45
Speaker 2: they notice if it's not there. So a person who's
36:49
Speaker 2: used to having, you know, a couple of liters of
36:51
Speaker 2: barbecue sauce on there, you know, bacon and eggsani is
36:56
Speaker 2: going to miss it if it's not there because they're
36:58
Speaker 2: used to the taste of that much sugar. And you've
37:03
Speaker 2: got to be really careful of because it is a
37:04
Speaker 2: really sneaky way for a lot of sugar to coming
37:06
Speaker 2: in your diet. I've done my fair share of Bunnings
37:08
Speaker 2: barbecues in my life, and believe me, almost every person
37:12
Speaker 2: really slams a lot of barbecue sauce and even normal sauce,
37:16
Speaker 2: which is thirty percent sugar, you know, on their sausage
37:20
Speaker 2: and bread.
37:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Now this is me asking, not you promoting.
37:26
Speaker 1: What's the name of your recipe book?
37:29
Speaker 2: So this too. The first one is the Sweet Boys
37:32
Speaker 2: and Quick Plan Cookbook. It has a bunch of recipes
37:39
Speaker 2: for things that are sweet, so chocolate cakes, ice cream,
37:44
Speaker 2: easter eggs, you know that, all that stuff that you
37:47
Speaker 2: would normally.
37:48
Speaker 1: Want googling like a little woodpecker over there just banging
37:51
Speaker 1: on the keyboards.
37:53
Speaker 2: So that one was a professional cook took our very
37:58
Speaker 2: rudimentary homemade recipes developed by my wife Lizzie and turn
38:02
Speaker 2: them into a really schmiko, properly tested and real recipe book,
38:06
Speaker 2: which is what that one is. So it's all sweet things.
38:10
Speaker 2: The other one, which I think is probably more useful,
38:12
Speaker 2: is the Eat Real Food Cookbook, which is not just
38:15
Speaker 2: all sweet things. It has some of those sweet things recipes,
38:18
Speaker 2: the more common ones, but it also has other things
38:20
Speaker 2: like how to do your own tomato sauce, and your
38:23
Speaker 2: savory things that will normally contain a lot of sugar
38:25
Speaker 2: are also out. It also eliminates all seed oil, so
38:29
Speaker 2: it removes all the seed oil as well, but they're
38:32
Speaker 2: both used dextros as the sweetener, which, as I said before,
38:34
Speaker 2: is just glucose.
38:36
Speaker 1: So for people who have been chound down the sugar
38:40
Speaker 1: for ten years and their comparatriot to a chound down
38:44
Speaker 1: the artificial sweetener for ten years, is it about equal
38:49
Speaker 1: the pain of getting offered like is it one a
38:53
Speaker 1: harder addiction to get out of or is it about
38:58
Speaker 1: the same.
39:00
Speaker 2: Official sweetness am not addictive As far as we know,
39:02
Speaker 2: there isn't a mechanism proven to show that they're addictive,
39:05
Speaker 2: which is why I said, if you do use them
39:07
Speaker 2: as method owned for sial gra addicts, you'll eventually stop
39:10
Speaker 2: using them. If you actually have eliminated sugar from the
39:13
Speaker 2: rest of your life, you'll eventually stop using them because
39:15
Speaker 2: they don't taste like sugar anymore. I, for example, can't
39:18
Speaker 2: drink an artificially sweet and soft drink. I mean, when
39:21
Speaker 2: I was getting off sugar, I was using Pepsi Max.
39:23
Speaker 2: You know, whenever I would normally have something sweet, I'd
39:26
Speaker 2: have a Pepsi Max.
39:27
Speaker 1: It's sweet as of all time. Yeah, and that is
39:31
Speaker 1: so sweet that stuff.
39:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I used it. I loved it, But after
39:36
Speaker 2: about six weeks or so of being off sugar, I
39:39
Speaker 2: couldn't stand it anymore. It tasted like soda water with
39:43
Speaker 2: battery acid in it. It just the taste profile had shifted,
39:48
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, if I'm drinking this crap my mids, well,
39:52
Speaker 2: just drink soda water because it's actually the fizz and
39:55
Speaker 2: the cold I'm after, not the metallic artificial sweetener to taste.
40:00
Speaker 2: And that's what I've that's what I've done ever since.
40:03
Speaker 2: So they're not an artificial sweetness are not, as far
40:06
Speaker 2: as we know, addictive. There's no mechanism proven to show that. Sugar,
40:11
Speaker 2: on the other hand, there is a mechanism. It produces
40:14
Speaker 2: a quartersole response, which produces a dopamine response, which it
40:18
Speaker 2: produces an addictionary response. So there is a mechanism for
40:22
Speaker 2: sugar addiction. There's a reason it's being included in food
40:25
Speaker 2: because if they could put cocaine in food and get
40:27
Speaker 2: away with it, they would, They can't, So sugar and
40:31
Speaker 2: caffeine are the next best things.
40:33
Speaker 1: So bloody interesting if I don't have, like I have
40:39
Speaker 1: the odd diet coke, which I think I'm going to
40:41
Speaker 1: stop from today. But if I don't have a diet
40:44
Speaker 1: coke for a couple of months and then I have one,
40:47
Speaker 1: it tastes so terrible, Like it tastes like I'm just
40:51
Speaker 1: drinking chemicals.
40:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and you think to yourself when you're
40:55
Speaker 2: doing that, why am I bothering? Is? Why did I
40:58
Speaker 2: just spend good money on this?
41:00
Speaker 1: Exactly? But one of the funny things for me is like,
41:03
Speaker 1: I'm full admission, I'm going to stop, but I drink
41:08
Speaker 1: diet ginger beer. I'm not pretending for one moment, that's good.
41:13
Speaker 1: But when I have, like I get those little three
41:15
Speaker 1: undred and seventy five meal bottles. Now, if I had
41:17
Speaker 1: three undred and seventy five meals of cold water, which
41:20
Speaker 1: I also love, I have it, and no, I'm like, I'm good,
41:24
Speaker 1: and then I'm not. I don't need another drink for
41:26
Speaker 1: an hour or two or three, depending on what I'm doing.
41:29
Speaker 1: But if I have one of those ginger beers, I
41:33
Speaker 1: finish it, I want another one ten minutes later. There
41:37
Speaker 1: you go, and I feel like I'm thirsty again, which
41:40
Speaker 1: clearly I'm not thirsty because I just put I just
41:43
Speaker 1: put all this liquid in my body and I've sat
41:46
Speaker 1: on my ass for ten minutes.
41:47
Speaker 2: But if you're feeling thirsty and water doesn't appeal, like
41:52
Speaker 2: if you think I'm thirsty and you think, well, I'm
41:54
Speaker 2: only allowed to drink water, and you think, well, I
41:56
Speaker 2: don't want really, I really don't want it water, then
41:58
Speaker 2: you're not thirsty. If what doesn't appeal to you, you're
42:02
Speaker 2: not thirsty. Think of a guy in the desert you
42:06
Speaker 2: know who is actually thirsty, and you offer him a
42:09
Speaker 2: class of water. Is this going to say? No? Absolutely?
42:12
Speaker 1: Not so much sense. Now we know that we've put
42:18
Speaker 1: you out today because we pushed you back an hour
42:21
Speaker 1: or so and we know you're a very busy man
42:23
Speaker 1: and you were very agitated and grumpy before the show,
42:27
Speaker 1: but you've emotionally stabilized and.
42:29
Speaker 2: We appreciate that. Yes, you've used some.
42:32
Speaker 1: High level psychology to manipulate yourself into a presentable co host. Nate,
42:41
Speaker 1: thank you. Do you want to tell people where to
42:43
Speaker 1: so substack is where they can find your stuff.
42:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you can't remember that, just David Gillespie dog.
42:51
Speaker 2: The articles are always there so you can always just
42:53
Speaker 2: think from there.
42:55
Speaker 1: Now. Can you do a hook? That's what people in
42:58
Speaker 1: media do. Can you do a hook? What do we
43:00
Speaker 1: talk about next time? Because you said you had something
43:03
Speaker 1: which was great?
43:04
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, we.
43:05
Speaker 1: Need to do a bit of a deep dive. Just
43:07
Speaker 1: give us a hook so it can be excited.
43:10
Speaker 2: Been a lot im media lately about the fact that
43:12
Speaker 2: Australia has had a three hundred and fifty percent increase
43:15
Speaker 2: in allergies in the last twenty years, which is massive
43:18
Speaker 2: makes us the world capital of allergies, honestly, And the
43:23
Speaker 2: big question is why. The answer is seed oils. And
43:26
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about why that is so.
43:30
Speaker 1: At the next one, I'll tell you what you wouldn't
43:32
Speaker 1: want to be a seed oil tip.
43:34
Speaker 2: Would you're living near David gillest around David?
43:38
Speaker 3: Sure?
43:39
Speaker 1: Mate. We appreciate you. We'll say goodbye affair, but for
43:42
Speaker 1: the minute, thank you.
43:43
Speaker 2: Pleasure