Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Kidnapped at 7. Escaped at 14. The Award-Winning True Crime Movie that That Shocked America with Corin Nemec

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Killer Thriller: Kidnapped at 7. Escaped at 14. The Award-Winning True Crime Movie that That Shocked America with Corin Nemec · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ. Holmes present Killer Thriller with your
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: host Elisa Donovan.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Today's story is one that is almost impossible to process
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: because it didn't just happen in a moment. It unfolded
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: over years. In nineteen seventy two, a seven year old
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: boy named Stephen Stainer was kidnapped walking home from school.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: He was held captive for seven years, raised under a
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: different name, and told his family had given him away.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: And then at fourteen, he did something almost unimaginable. He
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: rescued another child and walked into a police station to
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: tell the truth. It became one of the most talked
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: about cases of its time, and then a two part
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: NBC mini series that millions of people watched. At the
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: center of that was a teenage actor being into something
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: incredibly heavy and very real. Today I am joined by
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Korn Nebick, who played Stephen, and I know my first
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: name is Stephen, a role people still remember decades later. Korin,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with me today.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: He yes, it's my pleasure. Jasi Ship, thank you.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: A little noise in the backg I'm at an editing
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: studio right now, working on a film that I just
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: finished directing.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Oh amazing, Okay, well, we are definitely going to talk
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: about that later.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: We are here to talk about this.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I you know, I since we've been doing this podcast,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: we obviously talk about very traumatic and tragic things that
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: have happened. This film and this case and this story.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I just like, I just I can't get past it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: It's so disturbing. When you first heard about this, you know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: when you learned this was a true story. What was
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: your reaction to what happened to Stephen? Given how young
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you were yourself, you were essentially the same age as
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: he was when he escaped.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: Well, I remember, you know, growing up in the in
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: the late seventies, early eighties, you know, the.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: There was a you know, quite a large.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: Public push in in the in the abduction category. You
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: could say, you know, there was a lot of stuff
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: going on at school, you know, stranger danger type stuff,
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: and like, you know, don't don't walk up to cars
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: people who don't know. There's a lot of stuff back
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: then that I recall when I was quite young and
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: and when this opportunity presented itself to be a part
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: of the miniseries based on the true story. From a
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: dramatic standpoint, it was it was very daunting. It was
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: very uncomfortable to bring some of those scenes to life, know,
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: but I found that actually it was that uncomfortableness they
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: kind of got me the job, to be honest, because
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: I had to audition for the scene when Stephen was
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: on the stand during the trial and do those scenes,
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: and the dialogue itself was so unbelievably uncomfortable even to
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: be doing that. That played into naturally an uncomfortable performance talking.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: About it, and that was really that That was the
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: scene that got me the job.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: But then I ended up working with an acting teacher
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: named John Lynn, an old school actor from New York
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: and stuff, and I worked with him in the lead
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: up about maybe two three weeks in the lead up
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: to the principal photography starting, and broke down. The entire
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: script went overseen by scene, you know, addressed all of
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: the emotional conditions that arose, and so I was extremely
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: well prepared by the time I walked on set, and
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: it made it made the actual filming of all of
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: that a lot less uncomfortable, or I wouldn't say traumatic,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: but you know, dramatic in a way where it might
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: be hard to shake it off, you know, you go home,
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: but because of the preparation, it was much easier for me.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: I think the interesting thing was meeting Stephen in person
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: and his family.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: And having an opportunity to.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Shake his hand and see what a great individual he
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: had become in the face of everything that he went through,
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Because any lesser person who knows what type of character
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: they would have adopted after all of.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: That in life.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Did they come to set or how did you first
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: meet him?
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: They came to set a couple of times, and then
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: he was also was a background artist in one of
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: the scenes when when Stephen Stainer is being brought home,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: he's one of the police officers that walks him up
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: to his house, which you know, a hitchcocky in moment,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: but for sure, you know, having him around set was
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: was inspiring because he survived such a traumatic and uh
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: and potentially life altering, unchangeable event or event over such
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: a long period of time that the likelihood of him
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: growing up to be a very well rounded, responsible, you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: a wonderful parent, wonderful husband, all of that, the chances
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: of that became very slim right right.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm so blown away by that. He you
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: can see in his face in the the footage, the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: real footage, that the joy. I mean, you can certainly
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: see the pain and the trauma that he's been through,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: but there's also this like a real light inside of
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: this person that I'm just so blown away by that
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: that he's able to and especially you know, I read
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and they you cover this in the movie too, in
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: the mini series too, that they he had no therapy,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: they didn't really think it was necessary. And I read
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: that he said just kind of talking to journalists helps,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: And how do you I just feel like things so
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: much has changed since then, clearly, But what are your
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: thoughts on that in terms of how he was able
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: to move.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Gad to me, I have no idea, That's what I'm saying.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: It's a phenomenon. I have no idea how he managed
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: to process that at such a young age and.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Continue to have.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: For all intents and purposes, a very normal, you know
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: life with his with his wife and kids, and his
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: his desire to become a law officer, and uh, you know,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: him going through all of the the psychological things that
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: he would have that he was having to go through
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: in order to become a law enforcement officer because of
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: his history. And I mean, you know, he had goals
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: set for himself that uh that had he not been
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: taken from this world by a trunk driver on his motorcycle,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: you know, a drunk driver hit him while he was
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: on his motorcycle and killed him. So a terrible, tragic,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: unfortunate into to an already tragic life. But his, his
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: the life that he lived from the time that he
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: came home to the time of that accident was very
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: admirable and uh and awe inspiring life.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: For for what he went through.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, what a what an incredible person he he was.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: And yeah, and and and his you know, from what
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: I understand, you know, his kids and everything are very well,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: you know, are doing great as.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Well as it. And yeah, did you.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: When you were shooting the series, did you have a
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: real understanding of the details of the case or were
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: you really just sticking to what was in the actual
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: script Because you were, again so young, it's hard to
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: comprehend that stuff. You know, I have a thirteen year
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: old daughter right now, and I think about this and
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: go Jesus, like, how.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: How do you.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they gave me.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, besides the script, which was extremely detailed and
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: very well written and historically accurate and.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: Everything, they gave a huge binder of news.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Articles they did.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a massive binder. There was just article
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: after article after article, and you know, there was a
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: very very good understanding of the depth of this particular
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: story and how wide reaching it was, and the attention
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: that it necessarily brought to a bizarre epidemic that still
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: happens to this day, and that's the kidnapping and disappearance
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: of children. That is, when you look at the real numbers,
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: even in twenty twenty six, when you look at the
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: real numbers of young kids who disappear off the streets
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: and are never found, it's absolutely jaw dropping. I mean,
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: you know, in the fifties, sixties of thousands per year
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: or whatever, you know.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: It's wow.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that crazy number.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: It's a crazy number if you look it up. I
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: might even be on the low end of it, but
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: it's a staggering number.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: There's so much to this in terms of like the
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: age he was and those years seven to fourteen, really
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: trying to to understand where he was you know, and
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: people always ask these questions in many of these sort
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: of kidnapping situations of why didn't they leave and why
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: didn't they.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: And you know, to me, it's like, well, it wasn't
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: an option.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: They didn't perceive it as one, right, and so, but
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: what do you think was the shift then? When the
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: little boy Timmy, he is kidnapped and essentially brought into
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: the home as Stevens quote, new little brother. Why do
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: you think that was such a pivotal shift for Stephen?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Where he went I have to escape now.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean from what it says in the story,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: and I think from a lot of what he himself
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: said in interviews, basically was that he had been to
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: a greater or lesser degree brainwashed to believe that Parnell
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: was his adopted father, that he had been adopted legally
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: by him, and after years and years of that, he
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: came to, for the most part, believe it to be true,
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: but with a window of possibility.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: That something was off about it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: And so when he brought home that new kid, he
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: saw the grooming process of that kid start occurring exactly.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: How he recalled it when he was young.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: And him using the same lies the same you know things,
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: And that's when it dawned on, even for such a
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: young age, that's when it dawned on Stephen Stainer that
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: his whole entire life was a lie, and that this
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: kid's fate was going to be the same fate of
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: his own, and again mustered the spiritual fortitude to get
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: that kid in the dead of night and secret him
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: away away from Barnell's house to the nearest police station,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: where fortunately he himself too was picked up. After dropping
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: the you know him off and running away, they caught
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: him not too far away, and fortunately they did, because
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: if he had disappeared onto the streets and had never
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: been seen again and had just become a street and
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: you know, that could have been another.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Very different and right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that so thinking about that scene in the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: in the mini series when you know, there's this famous
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: statement where he says, I know my He's essentially saying,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the only thing I know about myself for sure is
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: what my real first name is. And I know for
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: sure my name is Stephen. My first name is Stephen.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: What do you remember about shooting that? Were you aware
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: of that? How kind of meaningful that was?
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, of course, Yeah, that was I mean, that was
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: the whole I mean, it was the title of the
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: of the documentary as well, you know. Uh, and that
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: line was, you know, a direct quote from from the
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: historical truth of it. So that was, you know, that
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: was basically the iconic moment of transition between I'm this
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: you know, programmed kidnapped victim to I'm this real person
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: with a real life, with a real family somewhere else.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: You know, So coming home, both in the miniseries as
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: well as in sort of people's belief in life. You know,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: coming home is supposed to be the happy ending, right,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: It's what everybody and then you think, oh, everything ends
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: well now, But really that's sort of just the beginning
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: of a whole new set of you.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Know, challenges to go through. Well, what what stood out to.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You the most about that transition, right of coming back
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: to real life for him?
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: I mean I can only imagine what the reality of
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: that transition was for him and how peculiar and uncomfortable
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: it must have been, especially with all the media attention
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: around him as well. But you know, I think that
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: the real transition for him started when he got his
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: girlfriend pregnant at a very young age. And the idea
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: of being a father, of being a real father, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: and and protecting his kids became such a bigger and
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: more important idea than anything else that happened. I think
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: that probably was the big transitional point into young adulthood
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: at such a at such a tender age, after such.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: A horrible life experience.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that. Stephen said, though, one of the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: things that stuck out to him about the mini series
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: is that they portrayed him as being disrespectful to his parents,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that kind of acting out when he came back of
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: trying to uh figure out how to be a teenager
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: without with new rules where he could do anything with
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: when he was with Parnell. What do you what do
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: you make of that difference? And do you know why
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: that decision was made to put it in the script
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: that way?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, that I have no idea.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: I would probably just say that that taking uh maybe
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: that maybe having that I won't I do not want
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: to call it easy of a transition back into the
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: world or anything. But but perhaps they just had creative
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: license and decided that it needed a little bit more,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: or maybe it was based on a couple of things
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: that happened one or two things that happened indn't equal
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: years of you know, of behavior or anything. But but
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: but you know that said again, how he made it
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: through it all with his head intact was right, incredible
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: part of it.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost seems to me like that would be obviously,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: not having gone through anything remotely like this myself, that
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: would seem to be like the logical way that one
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: might respond. And it almost speaks to how it's such
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: an an impossible experience for anyone to really understand who
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: has not gone through it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the those you know, where
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: does the creative license come? We talk about that a lot,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: you know, where you need to get the story across,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: and you're still you know, maintaining the emotional truth of it,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I suppose. And sure, yeah, did you feel any kind
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: of I mean, it's a silly question you're going to say,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: of course I did. But did playing somebody who was
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: very much alive and very much present in the process,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: did you how did that impact your Did you feel
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that responsibility as such a young person?
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Did you understand that.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Not necessarily?
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that they were I think that
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: that the portrayal of the overall story and the characters
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: involved were very well done and respectful to everybody. The
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: first time I played a character of a person who.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Really existed and was still alive was in the movie.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: Was the first film I ever did was the movie
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: Tucker frances Poort Coppola film, playing Jeff bridges On Noble,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: and all of the kids, the Noble, the Tucker kids, Preston,
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Tucker's kids were all still you know, well alive at
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: the filmed that, and they all.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Came down to set and everything.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: And I got to, you know, meet the you know,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: the fifty something Yrold version of myself.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: But well yeah, yeah, but.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: But but that said, you know, I playing a real
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: life character. Wasn't that that didn't really equate to me
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: that from an artistic standpoint of what my job was.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Do you think it would be different today?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Like we have a different approach about It's a lot
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: more normalized to talk about challenge and grief and sexual abuse.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: And you know, I think in particular, it seemed like
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: they really didn't want.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: To talk about the abuse specifically.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, why would anybody at the end of the day,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, that's for special circumstances and whatnot
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: unless speaking about it publicly and openly as part of
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: your healing process, you know, which is fine, but also
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: a family.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: That really.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: When you get that much media attention out of nowhere,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: you know, and you're just like brown House kicked to
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: the head with camera crews and interest in media interests
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: and people around your house and journalists and look, you
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: lose and you lose all of that sense of privacy
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: while something so tragic and unfortunate is being processed. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: can only imagine what that would be like and how
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: you would just want to be like, no, we don't
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: want to just not talk about that.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: We just don't want to talk period, you know.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Right, right, So, the the fact that Parnell only served
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: five years for this crime is something I don't even
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: know how to process at all. I find it utterly despicable.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: What was your reaction when you learned that?
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's unfortunately, you know that that is
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: the tip of the iceberg for that that kind of uh,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: injustice for victims, there's you know, certain states or whatever,
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: there's certain statutes, there certain statutes of limitations and weird things,
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: and there's there's all these all these bizarre kind of
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: legal loopholes that that that these kind of incidents can
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: fall into that that don't make any sense whatsoever to
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: the rational mind.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: And uh and well said, well said.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately, this is just the again, the
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: tip of the iceberg on these kinds of miscarriages of
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: justice all across the US and in probably tens of
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: thousands of cases over the past decades.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as soon as he was released and
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: then he abducted another child and then tried to buy
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: another child, like within whatever a small amount of time.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, were you following that, did you? Were you
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: aware of that?
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I was aware of some of it, you know, not
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: all of it, but I was aware.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Of some of it. I was aware of more of
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: it many years later.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Than I was kind of at the time, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: track because once uh, once Stephen saying or unfortunately passed away. Yeah,
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: the the attention sort of passed away with him in
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: a sense, you know.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: So I had heard either either I read this or
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I might have heard you say it. And I watched
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the documentary that just came out as well, which is
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: pretty oh yeah, heartbreaking, and in it it's a very
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: unique series.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: But that you that he passed away the day before
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: the Emmys, Is that correct?
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the night before is when the accident happened, when
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: he was hit by the driver. And uh and you.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Know, Lonesome Dove cleaned house that year, if I recall.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: But we were nominated in a number of categories, I
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: think three to five categories, possibly at least three. But
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: but we didn't take home anything, you know, we really,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: all of us collectively, the different departments that were nominated,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: we just we just wanted to give a shout out
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: and thanks to to to Stephen saying or his memory
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: and all of that was more important than winning anything.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Sure, it was being able.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: To spotlight his passing, which was so unbelievably you.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Know, tragic.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember hearing about it? How did you
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: hear about it?
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: Of course, Oh, I mean it was I don't recall.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: I know that it was that it was my mom
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: who told me about it very shortly after it either
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: made the news or came through other channels to us
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: from you know, other people in the industry who may
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: have heard about it, you know, early on, But I
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: didn't hear about it until the day after it happened,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: of course.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And also information didn't didn't, you know, come through quite
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: as immediately as.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: It does now, Yeah, exactly, which.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Is sort of I wish it was like that.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Was there anything in the script specifically that that has
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: stayed with you till now? You know, something that kind
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of comes back through your consciousness from time to time.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, I would say kind of the whole experience,
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: you know, I just recall what's called, you know, honey wagons,
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: these these wagons for all the actors, where each one
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: has your own kind of little horse stall.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good description, no, horsetall.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh, I just recall a lot of time
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: in between scenes because my character, you know, Steven Sain
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: are also smoked in that in in that as well
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: at a young age of that, and we had these
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: these herbal cigarettes that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: You know, that I had to smoke.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: They weren't real tobacco, they were disgusting. But what I
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: would practice. I'd be over practicing smoking them and stuff,
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: sitting outside my trailer, and I just it's it's odd
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: because those kind of memories thinking, just sitting there things
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: thinking and I'm like feeling that rebellion, you know, that
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: they were, that they were insinuating he had during his
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: his teenage years, for a brief time that it was
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: palpable just in that activity alone. You know, I'm on set,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: I'm smoking up, I'm smoking a cigarette.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: No one can say anything.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: You know, it was you know, it's sort of like
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: you know, I felt a lot of those moments too.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: And also I knew that I was part of something
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: that was much, much, much much bigger than me or
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: my performance, or the miniseries or anything else. So that
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: was you know, I knew that it was going to
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: have a certain amount of success as a mini series,
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: but certainly not the amount of success that it did have.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: That that was that was pretty pretty wild.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a surprise.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I mean it must have felt you know, these things
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: like I say this a lot. There are times when
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: you know, this industry is we get to do noble things,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: and I feel like stories like this, it's kind of
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: this is one of those moments, you know, where it's
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: it's telling a story that's incredibly painful but very meaningful
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and necessary. So I mean it must have felt really
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: good to be a part of something like that.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well one hundred percent and it's been there's been
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: a series of those of those kind of moments and
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: experiences over my career, working on every project at the
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: end of the day, but ones where you know, you're
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: part of something, you know that's that's special and unique
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: and and we'll withstand the test of time and we'll
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: kind of hold a place in the history of television
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: and cinema in some small way, you know, And that's.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: That's pretty that's pretty cool.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: But uh, you know, and that's not to say that
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: in some shallow way, you know, but being a part
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: of something like this story that we're talking about now, well,
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: if I wasn't a part of it, we certainly wouldn't
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: be sitting here talking about it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: So it's unique.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, do people well clearly I know we did,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: we're asking you about it, But do people come up
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: to you, uh, you know, when you are doing some
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: other project, do people often want to do they bring
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: this up?
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: Not as often as as as people used to. You know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: there's such a flood of shows and movies and all
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: of that to watch since since that was the success
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: that it was back back when it was even when
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: it re ran you know, on television throughout the nineties.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: It would they'd re air it sometime here or there,
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: and it always did really well, and there was kind
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: of a resurgence of and then you know, I ended
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: up doing another you know, uh movie of the week
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: called My Son Johnny. I guess I was eighteen or so,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: and it again was along the same lines as I know.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: My first name was Stephen.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: A true story about two brothers who had a tumultuous relationship.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: One was very abusive and the other one, after suffering
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: years and years and years of abuse, ended up, in
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: what was arguably a self defense situation, killed his brother.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: But they wanted to send him to jail for life
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: for murder. And and but but you know, because it
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: seemed like he just just out of nowhere killed his
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: brother without anybody understanding that his brother abused him as
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: bad as any as as anybody can imagine, you.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Know, ri Rick Schroer Schroter' yes, of course, Michelle Lee.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Michelle Lee.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: But you know, so if I hadn't done I know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: my first name is Steven, I wouldn't have gotten my
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: son Johnny.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't you know.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: There's there's other projects that that that certainly wouldn't have
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: unfolded years later. Most of the movies of the week
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: that I did after I know, my first name is Stephen,
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: probably wouldn't have have come to immediate fruition.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: But because of that, and then because of going on
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: to Parker Lewis as well shortly a few years after,
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: I kept a very busy schedule.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Ten years later, while your career is going very well,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: the story Stephen's story and his family story becomes even
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: more sort of unimaginable. Where his brother Carrie is he
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: murders four women in Yosemite. When you first heard about that,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: what was your reaction?
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: I hope they don't offer me the part you know,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: But I mean I.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: Was as stunned and shocked as anybody who heard it.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, it was one of the I never met
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: carry at all. You didn't know and I don't know
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: what you know, what his portrayal was like in the.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Movie versus what he was like. I never I don't know.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Anything about that, and I don't know anything about his
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: life growing up or anything else.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know anything.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: It was just jaw droppingly wild to have that correlation.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was inexplicable. I just was like, wow,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: that's a turn for the worst.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I mean because in the miniseries make it look as
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: though they have a you know, relatively conventional relationship, Stephen
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and Carrie, and they even you know that he's happy
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: when Stephen comes home, and then a lot of the
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: things that I read or.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You know, that I could see.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's easy in retrospect to look at a
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: photo from back then more Carrie standing behind him and think, oh,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: he's jealous and angry, and he's you know, plotting something.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but jealous and angry to murdering four people for fame.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense to me.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: There's something far more sinister at play underneath the service
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: of all of that. For that to be the outcome,
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: just for sure, Steven day Or was kidnapped, molested and
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: returned home. I'm going to go kill four women and
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: become famous for a moment in time does not.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Make a lick of sense. No, but that's crazy, as
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: crazy as crazy. So what are you to do?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, man or man on Man because they you know,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: they said things like because the parents neglected the other
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: children that all this had an impact on him.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: But then I also, you know, come.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: On, yeah, it just doesn't matter.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: I mean for that to be the outcome, I mean,
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: you know, oh I was neglected. I'm going to go
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: chop somebody's head off. It doesn't make sense. There's I
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: don't know the story. I've never really looked into it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: The whole thing is bothersome. Uh it's it's it's unfortunate
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: because it cast a really uh you know, pallid shadow
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: over over over the legacy of Stephen Stainer and and
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: what he represented to that being the outcome of the family.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: You know, it's it's, it's, it's it's shameful, to be honest,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: but uh but no, I never really followed up with
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: the story beyond like just reading the headline and was like,
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: what the okay, well that's something.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a shame that there's any you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the people now connect those two stories sort of as
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: one in some regard.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: It's I agree with you. I think it's unfortunate.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, it is.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: What stays me the most about Stevens story.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: Let's say, what says me the most was how astonished,
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: even at that age I was at how well adjusted
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: he became in life. And that, that to me is
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: the that's the showstopper right there, That and even more
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: cataclysmic and and and and stormy outcome for his life
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: didn't present itself or or at least more of a
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: difficult transition back into some kind of normalcy.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: That to me.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Is the true testament of his character and and what
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: should be celebrated at the end of the day and
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: the story is that through all of that, he still
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: came out the other side, you know, with his with
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: his integrity intact, and was able to live life as
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: a as a father, and a husband and and a
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: law by aiding citizen. You know, like anybody else, you'd
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: never know his life story if you pass by.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Him on the street, you know, right, it is nothing
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: short of miraculous.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Site.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Well this it's been so lovely to talk with you again.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: This this mini series is called I know my first
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: name is Stephen, and you're just wonderful in it and
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: it's really a special important series. What where can we
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: find you now? Please tell me what you're what you're
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: up to right now? I know you're editing a film,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: you just directed.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I just finished a film that I co
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: wrote with a producing part and friend of mine named
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: Matt Florio, that we shot down here in outside of
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: Saint Petersburg, Florida, with a great group of executive producers
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: on it, local local guys down here.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it was you know, it was a fun shoot.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: It's a horror comedy, it's a mockumentary, and it's also
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: a found footage piece. It's about a documentary crew that
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: finds out about a story, this legend of this half man,
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: half chicken who lives in the swamps of northern Florida.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: And comes out once a year, uh and terrorize and
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: terrorized the town.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: And so they go there to find out if this,
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: if this whole legend is true.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: And as they set out for the night to try.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: And get get this the the half man half Chicken
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: on film, one by one each of the crew members
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: is eliminated and all left the footage.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: And then there was that, there were none. All that's
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: left is the footage. Oh that's pretty genius.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And so it's it's it's a very it's
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: kind of like The Office meets Blair Witch Project, except
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: for that man have chicken in it, and we've had
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of fun. We're now in the editing phase
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: and it's it's but it's it's going to happen.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Oh well, congrats and I we look forward to seeing it.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I wish you the best with it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: And again, thank you so much for spending the time today.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: This is a.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Really important story that we've talked about, and thank you
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: for being here.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Thanks Elisa,