Latest / That Car Show / Going to 11 with Sasha Selipanov and his Nilu 27 Hypercar

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Going to 11 with Sasha Selipanov and his Nilu 27 Hypercar · That Car Show

0:00
We have reached peak car. We're not in a situation where
0:04
we're looking for peak car. We have reached it.
0:07
Today on that car show, Sasha Slipanov.
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Sasha, of course, is the automotive designer behind many
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of your favorite modern super cars and hyper cars, including
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the excellent Lamborghini Oricon, the innovative
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Koenigsegg Jamira, and of course the epic Bugatti Chiron.
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We talked about what makes a car great, why the Germans are
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sometimes scared of their own shadow, why Freeman Thomas's
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original Audi TT was so good, and why the company's new
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Concept C is a return to form. Of course, we also go deep on
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Sasha's current project is Neelu 27 hypercar and why I think it's
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the most exciting hypercar in a long time.
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Here's a hint, it's got AV 12 that goes to 11 and a gated
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manual transmission. This is a good one and Sasha's
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story of growing up in the Soviet Republic to creating some
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of the most iconic enthusiasts cars of our day is a great one.
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It's also a reminder to get off your ass and do something with
0:58
your life. Stay tuned, tell your friends
1:00
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The first time I saw Sasha Selipanos Neelu 27 Hypercar I
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was blown away. I knew immediately that it was
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something special. It was familiar, but it was also
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unlike anything I'd seen before. It was kind of like every car
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crush I'd ever had all rolled up into one.
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But it wasn't derivative, it wasn't overwrought, and it
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wasn't an homage. It was a truly original, modern
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hypercar, one pure form and one that really connected with me
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emotionally. Which makes sense, because the
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car's creator, Sasha, has one hell of a resume.
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Born in Tbilisi, Georgia, Sasha moved to California at the age
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of 17 and after attending Arts Center College of Design, Sasha
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was hired by the Volkswagen Group where he was part of the
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Lamborghini Ercon team and designed the exterior of the
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incredible Bugatti Chiron. He later go on to Genesis before
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becoming head of design at Koenigsegg where he was
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responsible for both the Jamira and the CC 850.
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But back to the Neelu because it's specs are truly impressive.
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A hot VV 12 engine that makes 1000 horsepower over 1000
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horsepower at 11,000 RPM, which is incredible.
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A top speed of 250 miles an hour, zero to 60 and under 3
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seconds of course and oh, it's got a gated manual.
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It's a driver's car, but it's also as Sasha puts it here to
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burn your village. So it's that car show and today
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it's just me. Dan and Lindsay are off doing
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amazing things, but I'm doing something even better.
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I'm here with Sasha himself. So Sasha, you've been on Top
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Gear, the Smoking Tire, Motor Trend list goes on.
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It's great to have you join us here on that car show.
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Welcome. It's my pleasure, Ryan.
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Thank you very much for this incredibly kind intro.
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I'm blushing already. Well, hope I got hopefully I got
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all the the facts correct, but it's great to have you.
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I'm a big fan of your your your work.
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And So what is the Sasha story? Where did this this this need to
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create this drive to create come from?
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No, I just thought, I think most of most of the kids are kind of
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born with it, but the society, the the warm embrace of the
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parenting home and experiences in school kind of stifle the
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creativity and kill the dreams a little bit for most kids.
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But in my case, I was very fortunate.
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I had the environment and Speaking of my family right now
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that really nurtured that, that obsession of mine and made sure
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that a lot of compromises, sacrifices and, and the effort
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was invested into supporting me on that journey.
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So I I think I was just lucky like that.
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Yeah, you were one of those kids, I'm sure that had the
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posters, you know, on the wall and and all the rest.
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Yeah. What was on your wall as a kid?
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What were? What were?
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You just like I think that part of my kind of part of my
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motivation right now I'm part of the intensity that I feel when
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it comes to sports cars really takes roots in how in a way
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depraved my childhood was because you know, growing up in
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in final death throes of Soviet Union in Georgia, either the
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best car you could see out in the streets was a lot of Neva,
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which is actually a really cool car, but but that was the best
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that you you would never see import.
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You would never see you would never see a sports car.
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Those things only existed in rare kind of magazine clippings
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that I could find somewhere and that the fact that I never was
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exposed to those cars, although I dreamed of them daily, but I
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never had the opportunity to actually like hold on to them in
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any meaningful way. That kind of that that, that,
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that hunger and that fascination is what really fueled me
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throughout my life. I'm still weak, weak in my knees
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when I see something exciting on the road and jump out of my car
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and run after that like a total adolescent.
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I love that you still do that. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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They most recently, I most recently was was driving
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somewhere in Hollywood and there was an F40 parked facing the
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wrong way on the road. So I'm driving, seeing all those
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back ends and all of a sudden I see the front end of an F40I
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just like threw the car like into the first, you know, like,
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I don't know, not even a parking spot, just fire hydrants.
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And then ran out and started taking pictures and spent half
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the afternoon just sitting there on the car looking at the car.
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It just, you know, you can't, can't help it.
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It's, it's, it's an obsession from from early days.
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And F40 was on the, on the on the.
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Bench Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of the greats truly,
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isn't it? It's yeah.
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I still get a little weak in the knees whenever I see one too.
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You know, you got a car week and you see them everywhere and it's
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just surreal, right? It's just, it's just surreal.
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At that point in time, it gets like this, this experience of,
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of, you know, like if you have all these craft beers, by the
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time you're on your fifth one, you really can't tell.
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Like if it's like the ride, that's the car we can experience
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in a nutshell. It's all we're saturating for my
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senses. Yeah.
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Can't can't quite handle. Yeah, so, so Tbilisi, like a
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beautiful part of the world, but obviously it was a real culture
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shift, moving to a city like Los Angeles at 17.
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So you'd spent your formative years in this former Russian
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Republic, and now you're in Los Angeles.
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And I mean, your head must have just exploded, right?
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With everything you saw and experienced?
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Not quite, I would say, because first of all, from Tbilisi, my
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family moved to Moscow when I was nine years old.
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So I spent between between my 9 year old and my 17 year old self
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was Moscow. And Moscow is a is a really
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bustling metropolis with more intensity, more, more New York
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than LA, if we had to draw a parallel there.
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So for me, coming to LA from Moscow, definitely exciting.
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Car culture is amazing. Climate was wonderful.
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Plenty of experiences that were that were, you know, kind of
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impressive, but I was missing a little bit of the intensity of
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the big city in in the New York kind of way.
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So that was a culture shock, obviously also because it was my
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first time having to speak English from from morning to
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evening, never have, never having the opportunity to, to
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switch back to the comfort of my native language.
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And, and yeah, I, I, I still remember it was, it was a
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massive culture shock, but not, not because of the size of the
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city. That.
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Yeah. OK, interesting.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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You know, and I bumped into, I've bumped into a couple of
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times. I think the first time last year
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at the LA Auto Show where your car was front and center.
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First time I saw the car in the flash and was just really,
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really floored by it. But I bumped into you again
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recently at Car Week at Haggerty, at the Haggerty House,
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I guess what they call it. And you gave this really
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insightful presentation into your design philosophy.
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And I guess what I really appreciated about it was your
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complete lack of pretense. Like in a in a week of lots of
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smoke and mirrors, sometimes literally, you know, you really
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cut to the chase and you almost made it sound like the secret to
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car design is actually very simple.
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I think it is, I don't know. I, I, I, I do believe that we
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overthink things too much sometimes.
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And the first impulse is, is more often right than we give it
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credit for. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's
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overcomplicated. It's driven by too many cooks in
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the same kitchen quite often. There's, there's too many
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interests at play. The investments are so large,
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you know, nowadays to bring a mainstream production car to the
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road is, you know, maybe even the north of a billion dollars.
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So when, when the investment is that high for, for a road car
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program, you inevitably have a whole bunch of different
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stakeholders in the game. And, and very often the designer
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is kind of the, the receiving point of all the different
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conflicting feedbacks. So then it's, it's, it's up to
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you and it's on your shoulders to make sense of it somehow.
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And again, very often the designer is relatively narrow
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minded, so they only have, you know, they just want to focus on
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making something quote UN quote pretty and they don't fully
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embrace the complexity of the process.
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So it is both simpler and more difficult.
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I don't know how else to summarize it.
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It requires a certain amount of a certain amount of intelligence
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and, and, and, and if you have that intelligence, then then
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hopefully it's, it's a good place to start.
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You broke it down into some, some components and one of them
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was seat shape and seat design, which I thought was really
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interesting, right? And I think as you said it, most
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car seats kind of look the same, right?
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And, but the body's not built like that.
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Plus you need to sort of lower the roof of the car, the center
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of gravity and all that. Can you go into that a little
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bit about how important seat design is?
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Because the human, like our body, really becomes part of the
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of the unit, the functional unit, right Once you're in the
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car. Now it's a very interesting
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point. Obviously spent a long time
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thinking about it. And generally speaking, when
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you're working with established car companies and OEMs, you have
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ergonomic sections that are being given to you.
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So you can't actually be creative when it comes to
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changing some of the ergonomic requirements that the company
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has. Like VW has very strict curves
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that are already predefined for human comfort and for human
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safety. So if you deviate from those
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curves, you'll be approached by the engineering team and they'll
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tell you, yeah, your design isn't compliant.
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Please make sure you respect these tried and tested, decades
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old, matured through generations comfort sections.
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We won't accept any deviation. And I was actually at Comics Egg
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the first time I realized this stuff is up for grabs.
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Christian had some wonderful ideas when it came to human
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ergonomics. And I realized, wow, I mean,
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he's so creative when it comes to these topics that were taboo
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in my previous life. And I kind of took that on as,
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as a challenge for myself to also think outside these, you
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know, regulated boxes and, and, and, and, and be creative.
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Obviously safety is, you know, top concern.
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So we will, I will never do anything that compromises that.
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But when it comes to some of those comfort sections, they are
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built along straight lines, like the the the seat back for
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example, in most passenger cars is a straight line and that's
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not what our spine looks like. So creating a shape that
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accommodates the spine more is both more comfortable and
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eventually lowers the head a tiny bit bit and you are
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packaging a bit tighter around the head and you're getting in
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my mind, a sports car anyway, should feel a little bit like a
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tightly fitted glove. You kind of want that tailor
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made feel in that interior and the areas that you come into
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contact with with your body. Let's say, you know, with your
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elbows, with your knees and with your hands.
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Obviously they should be designed as as literal offsets
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of your body parts so that you have that cocooning effect and
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the and the feeling of purpose built interior.
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Other parts that are more about, you know, making inputs into the
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vehicle, toggle switches, shifter, all those other things,
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they need to provide both the haptic and, and, and the touch
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feedback to you. So you really need that click
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back. You really need that cold touch
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to understand that you're not on the you're not, your hands
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aren't on the leather anymore. They are on something that
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controls mechanical function of the car.
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So I want that cold touch to come back to you at that point.
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There's a lot of thinking that goes into designing an interior
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very far away from just just drawing lines and coming up with
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cool themes. That's not it.
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You really have to think through the through the user, through
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the through the driver's perspective.
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What is the, what is the experience that they're about to
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have? Both from the external point of
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view, approaching the car, getting into the car, being in
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front of the wheel for the first time.
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Your first 8 seconds, As Etienne, who is my wonderful
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friend and interior designer, says 1st 8 seconds are the clear
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kind of yay or nay decision point for the for the potential
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buyer. But then how does this thing
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live with you throughout your life?
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Are you going to be looking to sell it in six months because it
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is a pain and you're not comfortable with the experience?
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Or is every new opportunity to drive the car, you know, making
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you fall deeper in love with it? And it really is gratifying on
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all those level, both the first wow factor as well as, you know,
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the decision making point. But then the life with the
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product and, and, and, and learning something new.
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It's like every relationship, you really need to create those
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those experiences and, and layer them and sometimes even hide
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them so they come through, you know, later down the road.
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And yeah, seat back is part of it.
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So you can deviate it now, but yeah.
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Well, you mentioned the tactile and I don't think there's a
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screen in your car, is there? No, well, we have one screen,
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which is the rearview mirror, the central mirror just in the
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cabin here because the firewall is there's no transparency there
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and the engine Bay has this massive top facing exhaust, so
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you wouldn't see anything out the back anyway.
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So we do have one screen and it's the only screen that I'm
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personally comfortable with in a in a super sports car, the last
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thing you want to do is while you're driving have to kind of
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look away and then fiddle with something on the screen.
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So that mirror is all you get. OK, interesting.
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Interesting. And you mentioned at the end, at
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the end, Salome is his name and I think you worked with him on
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the Chiron. Yeah.
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Yeah, he was the interior head and I was the exterior head.
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So we were we were sharing that responsibility and and later on
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he became one of my best friends, but also joined me on a
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bunch of other adventures including a a periodic work at
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Connex side while I was heading up design.
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There at the end was one of the contributors.
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And then with Nilu, the interior was again us sort of working
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together and him driving. That's very much.
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But I also had a strong hand in it, obviously being my brand.
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Sure, sure. One of the things in the
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interior I think that I've seen is the wheels pretty small,
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right, So the dials right are offset right to the left and
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right and things like like that. I mean, everything's considered
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and and just appreciate, appreciate that.
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Something else. I really appreciate his wheel
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design. And I know when I saw you at the
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Haggerty House, there was a question and answer session and
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there were only a handful of us journalist types.
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And so the pressure is kind of odd to ask a good question.
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And then and I asked about wheel design, because on the Nilu,
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it's a, it's a simple design. It obviously works very well.
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It's beautiful, but it's not overwrought, right?
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Again, it looks the way it does because I think you said it was
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how a wheel looks when you make it as strong and as light as
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possible. And that's the result you get.
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Is that right? They kind of capture that or.
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In a nutshell, you definitely did so.
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So wheels are, are incredibly important for vehicle
15:28
performance. They're obviously unsprung
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weight. They also generate quite a lot
15:33
of rotational energy. So they're in a way like a
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gyroscope. So a wheel that is spinning at
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the, at the, I don't know, 200 or 300 or 400 kilometers per
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hour is, is, is an incredible amount of energy stored in that
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rotation. So the more mass that wheel has,
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the more complicated it is for the suspension to do it's job,
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the more complicated it is to get good steering feel because
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obviously it doesn't want to change direction and continue
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spinning in the in the plane of rotation doesn't want to be
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changed. So lightweight is crucial for
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wheels. That is really part of, you
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know, not only weight saving in terms of just, you know, numbers
16:08
game, but also the outright driving experience benefits a
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lot from your wheels being wider.
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You can run algorithms these days that that's that generate
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wheels with, you know, if you input the parameters of the
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material that you'll be using, if it's a composite or if it's a
16:23
forged, or you know, the methods of production and you get shapes
16:25
that are lightest for that input, for that material, for
16:29
that vehicle weight, for that driving kind of scenario.
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You get designs out of predictive software.
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So technically you should be just taking those, producing
16:36
them and your job's done. But of course you still, you
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know, as a designer, you there is an aesthetic value to it.
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And I do believe that form following function delivers most
16:43
of that value. But you you still should do your
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homework a little bit, making things neat.
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And the classic fire spoke is one of the simplest and most
16:50
efficient shapes when it comes to distributing the load paths
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and providing the right rigidity and strength and lightweight.
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So starting with a fire spoke made sense.
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And then I wanted to keep the the face of it as clean as
17:00
possible so you don't actually see the complications.
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And this is also part of the way I like to tell stories.
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I don't like when things are all at once same and intensity just
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thrown at you, right? I want to create a step ladder
17:13
where you appreciate the design thinking, wow, it's a simple 5
17:16
spoke wheel. Probably seen something like
17:18
that before when you get close and you're like, but not quite.
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And then and then you look at it from from, you know, closer up
17:24
and then you see that, oh, it's all cross drilled and there's so
17:26
much weight saving going on and there's all these crazy angles
17:29
that the the drilling is happening from the CNC
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machining. So they must have come up with
17:33
intricate new ways of accessing those angles to.
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So the more you know and the closer you get, the more you
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appreciate what you see in front of you.
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While the 1st read remains instantaneous, as I call it, the
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Neanderthals punch to the gut. You need to deliver that bang
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and you can't deliver the bang with a lot of noise.
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The bang needs to be intentional.
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You're the first car designer I've spoken with that really
17:56
almost talks about a car with a story arc writer or is having a
17:59
story arc, which I appreciate and Speaking of wheels, it must
18:03
kill you to see like Cadillacs with these Chrome 24 inch wheels
18:06
just knowing like how much those things are hurting the
18:08
performance of the car right it's.
18:10
But I mean, like to to to every vehicle, there's different set
18:13
of guiding principles. You know, for some for a vehicle
18:16
that is primarily just a fashion symbol or something that is just
18:19
a lifestyle choice, fine. But we're talking about super
18:22
sports cars. So there's still that kind of,
18:24
you know, you need to you need to deliver on the performance
18:27
side as much as you do on the on the aesthetics.
18:29
So I don't want to necessarily kill off the entire car culture
18:32
that is, you know, not necessarily following function
18:36
per SE. There's so much exciting stuff
18:38
on the road and I, I really just appreciate stuff that make me
18:41
stop, makes me stop and, and think a little bit, you know,
18:43
and it could be both really pretty and, and, and quite ugly,
18:46
but I love the, the kind of the wow factor that, that I kind of
18:49
experienced when I see something that breaks the mold a little
18:51
bit. Yeah, yeah.
18:52
Well, Speaking of that, Genesis, I know you're with Genesis for a
18:54
while and I think Genesis has some of the best wheels in the
18:57
game. Maybe you know, not all
18:58
performance wheels necessarily, but but really doing some
19:01
different stuff with tackles and all this kind of thing.
19:03
Did you have anything to do with that while you were there?
19:05
Yeah, yeah, we did. So maybe you remember Genesis
19:07
Essentia the concept. Absolutely.
19:09
So that had a pretty wild wheel and that car was done in my
19:13
studio. I was responsible for that for
19:15
that show car. Fantastic.
19:16
And and the wheel I still remember because our boss at the
19:19
time was constantly pushing us to come up with something even
19:22
more expressive for the wheels. And I was like, guys, come on,
19:24
we we gotta like this is it, you know, let's let's just make sure
19:27
that we produce something that is wild.
19:30
I still really wanted the first read because I'm a fan of first
19:33
read. I think first read is very
19:34
important. But the intricacy was taken to
19:36
really the next level with that essential wheels was not never
19:39
done the more complicated wheel in my life.
19:41
Yeah. And then we did the mint as
19:43
well, which was the follow up show card to the essential.
19:45
And that also had a crazy wheel. And I still remember sitting in
19:47
Alias and actually building up the wheel myself.
19:49
That was one of the personal contributions.
19:52
I was like, OK, I'll do the wheel.
19:53
Yeah, that's awesome. A detailer's nightmare, but a
19:55
great looking wheel, right. That's that's the best. 3 Three
19:59
or four days of work where normally I spent like, I don't
20:01
know, half an hour on the wheel, but this, this was a heavy one.
20:04
Wow, wow. And you mentioned too that
20:06
you're not a clay model guy, right?
20:07
You are a computer guy. I don't know, maybe that's just
20:10
a generational thing or whatever, but but it does affect
20:13
the output, doesn't it? I don't think so.
20:16
I think that the, the key kind of guiding parameter that I have
20:20
for my own output and for, for my teams is you shouldn't be
20:23
able to tell how it was built. Like when someone sees it like
20:25
an experienced tech guy comes up and says, how did you guys do
20:28
this? They should fully believe that
20:30
it was done using their preferred method, you know,
20:33
their dream approach. They should not be able to tell
20:35
how it was done because I don't think that the final product
20:40
should reflect are the tools that were used.
20:43
The tools should be used to create a perfect product and you
20:45
should find tools that do it for you.
20:47
But the product should not necessarily headline with the
20:51
approach that was taken that that that somehow devalues it in
20:54
my opinion. Like for example, a 9/11 rear
20:57
Fender. A clay modeler will always tell
20:59
you that's only possible in clay.
21:00
I can build that in maybe 45 minutes.
21:03
There's really no problem with that rear Fender.
21:04
It's it's 2 patches and it's pretty easy to control that
21:07
highlight. It is.
21:08
It is a really beautifully mathematically controllable
21:11
surface that unfortunately most alias modelers or most CAD
21:14
modelers build it not the right way.
21:17
And then it becomes a very tedious piece of work.
21:19
And then the clay guys take advantage because they can do it
21:21
with their hands and with their kind of magic.
21:24
But if you understand the underlying math behind it, it's
21:26
actually a very simple shape. Yeah, interesting.
21:29
So what are some of your pet peeves when you see other cars,
21:32
cars that you weren't involved with, right?
21:33
Whether it's, you know, I don't know, BMW or Tesla or, you know,
21:37
what are these? There's some funky stuff going
21:39
on, right? So what are some of your pet
21:41
peeves? How much of this is laziness?
21:43
How much of this is just trying to do something different?
21:45
So my, my main problem with the entire industry as a whole is
21:49
this complete disconnect between what the object is supposed to
21:52
do and what it looks like. So the kind of mental game I
21:56
play with myself sometimes is close your eyes, come up to a
21:59
car, put your hand on any part of that car, open your eyes and
22:02
ask yourself what's this for? And chances are in the large
22:05
percentage, there is no purpose. It is just there to create
22:09
visual fascination, quote UN quote.
22:11
But it doesn't fascinate me. I just look at it and think
22:13
that's why Is this thing just stuck on the car?
22:15
That has to do with fake exhaust lamps, fake air intakes, fake, I
22:19
don't know, matte black moldings or shiny pieces or sometimes
22:24
they're even placed on the car in a way that defies function.
22:28
Where you think, well, yeah, I would appreciate a non scratch
22:31
surface on the front bumper. But where you placed it in an
22:34
undercut, where a body color panel is overshadowing it, it's
22:37
obviously not going to prevent my bumper from getting
22:40
scratched. So there is this kind of
22:42
substitution of of meaning, you know what I mean?
22:45
Where where instead of honesty in design, it's anything but
22:48
honesty in design. It's it's a complete outright
22:51
lie. So that's what I don't
22:53
appreciate. But I'm not ready to pin that on
22:55
the designer's shoulders and say, yeah, it's because those
22:57
guys, they don't know how to do their job.
22:58
No, it's because of how this industry works.
23:01
Quick refresh cycles, constant need to bring something fresh to
23:04
the market. 2 year old car is too old now.
23:06
We need to refresh, but we can't invest money into it.
23:08
So we can't actually just come up with a brand new design.
23:10
Let's take it as it is and just stick something on top of it.
23:13
Just make sure that we differentiate with low hanging
23:15
food. Quote, UN quote.
23:16
Just put something on there that doesn't cost us that much money.
23:18
So you're being forced as a designer into the territory that
23:21
none of us graduated with dreams of doing these kinds of
23:24
Christmas tree ornamentations. We all graduate with dreams of,
23:27
oh, I'll be like Georgetto Jujaro someday, or I'll be like
23:29
Marcello Gandini someday. But they work in a completely
23:32
different climate right now with the pressure that the corporate
23:34
world has upon the design department.
23:37
Yeah, you're hard pressed, you know, to do your job and and and
23:39
and stay dignified. Yeah, yeah.
23:42
And and what's your sort of take on, you know, Jaguar obviously
23:44
got so much grief earlier this year with their, it wasn't just
23:47
a car redesign, it was really a brand overhaul, right?
23:50
And I think a lot of us struggled with that because you
23:53
know, Jaguar is a legacy brand, right?
23:55
You there's an expectation for Jag, for Jaguar, you know, here
23:59
you are clean slate, right? How is that different designing
24:03
for a legacy brand versus a brand new entity like Nilo or
24:06
even relatively new? Well, just a couple of words on
24:10
the Jag. First of all, I would never
24:12
speak negatively of someone who took chances and and showed
24:15
bravery. So from that point of view, hats
24:17
off. I think it's wonderful that they
24:18
did. I think the brand has been in in
24:20
a crisis mode for not one, not 2, but like, I don't know, 4
24:23
decades at this point in time, they've really not had a chance
24:26
to stand firm on their feet. And you know, the Ford platforms
24:29
were horrendous and the over bloated, kind of fatty designs
24:34
with tiny little wheels pulled all the way in these cars, They
24:37
didn't look good. So it's not like the designers
24:40
came in, took this beautiful, refined jewel of a brand and
24:44
screwed it up. That's not what happened.
24:45
The brand was struggling, so it needed reinvention.
24:48
Now, do you think? Yeah.
24:50
Do I think that I would have gone that particular route with
24:53
Jaguar if I was once given a chance?
24:56
Probably not. But I really appreciate that
24:58
they did and that they stuck to it and that they came out
25:00
strong. And there are many areas on that
25:02
car that show incredible design, quality and sensitivity.
25:05
And interior is beautiful. Some of the detailed treatment
25:07
is beautiful. Overall proportions.
25:09
Squeeze your eyes. Look at it.
25:10
It's a beast, yeah. In my mind, Jags should be a bit
25:14
more feline with a little bit more kind of flow and sculpture
25:18
and a little bit more general beauty to them, right?
25:21
Not just slap sided monstrous kind of brutalist designs.
25:24
But again, hats off. They tried something different
25:27
and they tried to rescue an otherwise failing project.
25:29
So. Yeah, yeah.
25:32
I think the Jaguar design language had been taken as far
25:35
as it could go, right? I think Aston was in that same
25:37
position, right, a few years ago and they had to do something
25:40
different. I do think that you kind of
25:45
start with a strong manifesto with like a declaration of
25:48
intent and the message that is very clear and that message is
25:51
verbal. But there's also usually a set
25:53
of images that accompanied, you know, like you start off kind of
25:58
programming the brand for a new era.
26:01
And then as you iterate, as you go, first product is always the
26:04
celebration of that new vision. And then you're pressed by, you
26:07
know, the market demand and then the fans and the media, you
26:11
know, how do you kind of continue that development?
26:13
And the first few products are usually a good continuation of
26:16
that original manifesto. And then somehow one way or
26:19
another, maybe some people leave, some new people come in,
26:21
it gets diluted. So there's always a kind of a
26:23
strong intent at the beginning that somehow slowly glides down,
26:28
down to a point where a new kick is necessary.
26:33
And that's also why I think that perhaps rotating chief designers
26:37
and rotating CEOs and it's not such a bad thing.
26:40
I don't know, after 15 years in a brand if I would personally
26:43
have any more new ground to break.
26:45
You know, I already kind of digested the brand's meaning.
26:47
I, I contributed my vision. I, I did a generation of cars, 2
26:51
generations of cars, 3 generations of cars.
26:54
And how much more can you do? I think it's time for fresh
26:56
blood. Yeah, absolutely.
26:57
So I guess super cars are one thing, hyper cars are one thing.
27:00
It's probably even that much more challenging to your point
27:02
to design like an everyday car, right?
27:05
So are there any daily drivers out there that you think really
27:08
get it right past cars, current cars?
27:12
I'm not generally like a super big fan of current cars.
27:15
Like if I think of something, things that I like, they always
27:17
are strangely from the past. And like I remember one of the
27:24
formative experiences of like a regular car seeing something new
27:29
as a regular car was the original TT when that came out.
27:32
Yeah. Yeah.
27:33
And then the Golf Mark 4, which was the kind of same generation
27:37
as that TT, was the first car with clear headlights with like,
27:40
no, no, no, not foggy, you know. Yeah.
27:43
And that was so clean and so pure.
27:45
And the shut lines, the way they were laid out.
27:47
And that was the time when I was already not super little.
27:50
I was maybe in my early teens, but very formative to me as a
27:53
designer of just how neat and how organized and how precise
27:57
their, their shapes were. And I, I really kind of still to
28:00
this day hold those cars at a very high level of, of, of
28:05
respect. Today when I see stuff, I just
28:08
want to clean it up. That's my only kind of
28:10
condition. I'm like, look, this is almost
28:12
perfect, but just remove all this design, remove all that
28:14
stuff like I don't need it. I'm pretty like cynical in their
28:19
respect. No, I'm not sure that's the
28:20
right word when I get in the car in the morning and I'm not
28:23
necessarily in the mood for visual bonanza.
28:27
I just want stuff that doesn't piss me off.
28:29
Like I I want stuff that I get in and it's, it's just, they're
28:32
perfectly resolved. Like sorry for the example that
28:35
is overused, but like the freaking iPhone, I don't need
28:38
stuff that screams at me on Monday morning.
28:41
You know, it says like, check me out.
28:43
I got this feature, I got that feature and I got this like my
28:46
shifter looks like a leaf and it's got this little Chrome
28:48
trim. Like who cares?
28:49
Give me something that I can actually grab and does it's job
28:52
and looks pure and simple and and that's what I like.
28:56
It's funny you mentioned that Volkswagen because I remember
28:58
the first time I saw one on the street, I remember where I was.
29:01
I remember what the car, you know, looked like and like it
29:05
was a Countach or something that the first time I saw
29:07
Lamborghini, it had that sort of impact on me.
29:10
So I'm glad to hear that I'm in good company.
29:12
And of course, the TT you mentioned is interesting because
29:15
the new TT concept was just released today and it shades if
29:19
I think it was the Audi Avis car, the concept car of my
29:23
youth, I guess. So thoughts on that?
29:26
Because it's getting a lot of press and people seem to really
29:28
love it, especially the back end.
29:31
I'm a big Audi fan, and as you know, I spent 12 years of my
29:34
life in Volkswagen Group. A big chunk of that I was at
29:36
Audi as well, working on some production programs there.
29:38
So big fan of Audi. I struggled with the management
29:41
there for many years because I thought that they didn't fully
29:45
embrace Audi DNA. For me, Audi DNA is much more
29:48
Germanic, much more Bauhaus, much more that kind of Teutonic,
29:52
strict, fundamental, almost brutalist.
29:55
There is something about Audi that is, you know, German to the
29:59
core and there's no nonsense kind of way.
30:02
And when they were over styling it and putting a lot of styling
30:04
lines and putting undercuts and overcuts and Chrome bits and
30:07
this and that, and again going in the Christmas tree direction
30:10
with the cars, I personally felt disconnected.
30:12
I felt like that Audi has such a wealth of DNA behind that.
30:16
Come on guys, let's just do something more pure.
30:19
And my proposals were always on that more direction and then
30:22
eventually they weren't getting into production because they
30:24
were seamless, just not right for the brand.
30:26
In fact, I was being offended by being told you're not on the
30:30
brand. And I'm thinking, no, you are
30:31
not on brand. None of you are on brand.
30:34
You don't get the brand. I need to shake you guys.
30:36
We're not doing rebadged BMWs or rebadged Mercedes's here.
30:40
This should be different. There is a quality of design
30:42
that needs to be respected. And that Abu's concept you
30:44
mentioned was obviously a big inspiration.
30:46
JMA's early 90s, wonderful car. There was also the Audi Sport
30:50
Quattro coupe concept back then also with this round roof orange
30:53
car spider and coupe. They were they were wonderful
30:56
than the TT cane and the Steppenwolf was incredible as
30:58
well with Rafael Pretecher as a designer.
31:01
And there was a whole plethora of cars that for me set the
31:05
standard for what Audi design should be.
31:07
And then there were a lot of newer cars already underwater,
31:10
the Silver and then Stefan Ziwaf and then Wolfgang Edgar and then
31:15
Mark Leach, the incredibly competent designers.
31:18
But some of that original design manifesto got watered down.
31:21
And remember, I just said a minute ago how like you start
31:23
high and then you kind of you need to restart.
31:25
Well, maybe this is what's happening now.
31:27
Maybe bringing Massimo on board. They are really kind of
31:31
returning back to this more Bauhaus Germanic roots from that
31:34
perspective. I love what they did and I'm
31:36
really happy to see it. Yeah, that design language works
31:38
so well in a way that it wouldn't, I think with Jaguar or
31:42
something else. It just looks right.
31:43
It just looks right. It's hard to put your finger on,
31:45
but that explanation of the history and all that, that
31:49
explains it, I think. And was it Freeman Thomas who
31:52
did the original TT? Freeman is awesome.
31:55
Yeah, he did the original CT. He worked on the original New
32:00
Beetle as well. I remember that round roof one.
32:03
And to his day he's an inspiration.
32:05
Great designer. Was he a teacher of yours at Art
32:07
Center? No, he didn't teach, but he's
32:09
prominent, so he always stopped by and gave his opinion here and
32:12
there. And sometimes I go out to see
32:14
him and run whatever I'm doing by him.
32:16
Just you got like a some kind of advice?
32:18
He's a hell of a nice guy too. I've bumped into him a couple
32:20
times at the Peterson Museum and other places and he's always got
32:22
time to say hello and talk. With you, but I have to say he
32:25
he on a philosophical level is very much the the core of in my
32:29
mind of Audi DNA. Like you would go to him to
32:32
Derek Jenkins as well, another very prominent designer.
32:34
I respect a lot for this. DNA was an interesting thing.
32:38
I need to mention this. The Germans themselves struggled
32:41
to understand the quintessential part of Audi DNA.
32:44
You had to be a foreigner to see it.
32:46
And the fact that those guys were coming from the States and
32:48
they grew up with a completely different understanding of what
32:50
VW is and what Audis. And there was a whole hippie
32:52
culture tied into it. There was a whole West Coast
32:55
kind of fun culture attached to it.
32:57
Germans see their past with heavy guilt.
33:00
So when you tell them, let's take inspiration from the 30s,
33:03
it's like, are you nuts? Like, why would we do that?
33:05
Like, please, anything but. So it really takes a takes a, a
33:09
person who is not part of the guilt train to reference some of
33:14
those cars and celebrate them in a way they should be celebrated
33:17
because I don't think the cars are guilty of the dictators.
33:20
Yes, you know, actions. Yes, as well, you're the first
33:23
person that I've ever heard say that, Sasha, and I think that's
33:25
really important and that that explains so much, right?
33:28
I know Mercedes-Benz has this amazing repository of their
33:31
history that they keep under lock and key, right?
33:34
And obviously I understand some of it, but it's still your
33:36
history, right? And and I like that point of
33:38
being an outsider looking in to really understand it.
33:41
That's that's fascinating. You know, so you mentioned
33:44
Volkswagen, Audi, TT, some of these other cars.
33:48
I'm very fascinated to find out what your daily driver is.
33:51
Sasha, what do you drive? The guy that designs the new Lu
33:53
27, what does he drive every day?
33:56
Well, I mean, my favorite daily driver that I had to sell when
34:00
we moved to the States for the second time was the R35 GTR.
34:04
That was that was my my kind of. Yeah, yeah.
34:08
Perfect weapon. I loved it.
34:11
I loved every moment of it. I would take kids to school and
34:14
drive on the German Autobahn and Max the car out every single
34:16
day. So it would literally go 195
34:19
miles an hour on the way to school and then onto the off
34:21
ramp completely restricted. So you break late, you kind of
34:25
you throw the car in and floor it on the exit, let it slide a
34:28
little bit. The kids are partying it out,
34:30
celebrating and perfectly legal and perfectly legal.
34:32
So that was an experience. I loved every moment of owning
34:36
that car. Right now I drive a 2021 or 22
34:42
Land Rover Defender, which I really like.
34:44
It's a very clean volume. Again, referencing, by the way,
34:47
this is another car that the current Audi chief designed back
34:50
in this Land Rover days. So there's some taste of his
34:54
that I appreciate in that car as well.
34:56
And solves my daily needs, doesn't upset me.
34:59
I don't feel like I need to scream and yell at it.
35:01
The reliability sucks but but the design is good, yeah.
35:04
Yeah, yeah, it's a great design. I I love what what was it?
35:06
The Heritage edition with the steel wheels and all that.
35:09
I don't know which one you have, but I love those.
35:11
They're great. And they drive really well too.
35:14
You don't always notice until you get out of something else
35:16
before you realize how good those Land Rovers ride.
35:19
And you mentioned the R35 because I think it was just last
35:21
week that they announced the last one was rolling off the
35:23
assembly line. I had to stop and think about
35:26
how long that thing has been out.
35:28
I think that was released in Is it O5 or O8O8?
35:32
O7 where the the first cars on the road, but the concept was a
35:36
couple of years before that and then there was another concept
35:38
another couple years before that.
35:39
So I would say the journey of that R35 project probably goes
35:43
back to early 2000s. Really.
35:45
Yeah. And I remember when it came out,
35:47
this was the death of analog, right?
35:49
This new digital car. And now we look back and think,
35:51
all right, this thing's pretty damn analog.
35:53
Pretty damn analogue. Exactly.
35:55
Compared to today's cars, it's got a ton of character.
35:58
I don't know, people talk about the fact that it's like driving
36:01
a PlayStation cars, but it really isn't.
36:02
The thing is tons of joy and can really kind of, I wouldn't say
36:06
it punishes you outright because it does catch you if you're too
36:09
stupid, but there is some like snap over steer moments I had
36:12
where I was kind of what was that all about?
36:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's nice.
36:16
I think the proof is in the pudding and that the fact that
36:18
those cars are holding their value really, really well, you
36:21
know? I sold mine for more than I
36:22
bought it for really, which is incredible because a 7 year old
36:24
car fractionally but it still didn't depreciate.
36:27
It sure like it's a Porsche GT car or something, you know?
36:30
OK, so you're in Southern California, LA area I assume?
36:33
Indeed, yeah. So where are your go to roads?
36:36
I know when I'm in town I always try to do Angela's Crest and
36:38
Little Big Tujunga. Whatever those roads are,
36:40
they're pretty fantastic, like roller coasters.
36:42
Where do you go? Where?
36:43
What are your proving grounds in Socal?
36:45
I don't have any proving grounds because I don't have a car that
36:47
is worth the proving grounds. OK, so the Land Rover is about
36:51
to tip over every time I'm on an, so I don't feel the need to
36:55
take it anywhere more extreme than that.
36:57
Yeah. For sure.
36:58
But obviously some gorgeous roads I am not a fan of
37:01
necessarily hooning around. Yeah, public roads.
37:04
I am decent as a driver. I'm not great and I don't want
37:09
to be a liability on that road and I don't want to drag anybody
37:11
else into any kind of accidents with me.
37:13
So track day and then some days of preparing with a set of Corsa
37:17
and getting a few laps in to understand all your breaking
37:20
points and then go off to the track semi educated and do some
37:24
fun laps on the track. That's how I normally my kick.
37:27
It's a great .1 of the reasons I moved to Denver, to Colorado
37:31
here 10 or 11 years ago was for the roads.
37:33
And I just turned 50 about a week ago.
37:35
I know you're a few years younger than me, but it's
37:37
becoming less and less important.
37:38
I've got nothing to prove, you know, you know it.
37:41
It's just about going out and having a good time.
37:43
If you know, if I was involved with something even indirectly
37:46
that hurts someone or I couldn't live with myself.
37:48
And so, you know, it's just it's, it's funny how your
37:50
priorities change anymore. It's more about the the drive
37:53
and the scenery that it's, you know, but.
37:55
It is it also outright scary, especially in modern high
37:59
performance cars, because to to tap into their actual
38:02
performance envelope, you need to be so far above and beyond
38:05
anything that is real legal in terms of speed limits.
38:08
And then you're throwing this car in and, and you're hoping
38:11
that it doesn't understeer a fraction more than it normally
38:13
does and that you'll bite into that road.
38:15
But if you don't, then it's a Cliff, you know, so or, or
38:18
coming out of the corner, you're a bit sloppy with your throttle
38:21
and then the back comes out and there is not there's no room for
38:24
error. And I don't understand people
38:25
when I see them driving as recklessly as they do.
38:27
Are they superhuman in their trust in their abilities?
38:30
Or do they overestimate their abilities and then they are
38:33
risking because I don't like it. I mean Pikes Peak on on on on
38:37
YouTube. Yeah, is is more than enough for
38:39
me to get my my, my palm sweaty and my back sweaty.
38:42
So. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
38:45
And you know that's everyone else too, right?
38:47
It's the person coming the other direction or whatever is as you.
38:49
Know, and then there's a, there's a, there's a motorcycle,
38:52
you know, leaning into the other direction.
38:54
So they're across the, the, the, the lane divide and you're on
38:57
the limit of your grip. So what are you gonna do then?
38:59
Yeah, exactly, Exactly. And you mentioned Pikes Peak.
39:01
Have you ever been out here for Pikes Peak?
39:03
No love to. OK, if you'd ever want to come
39:05
out, please do let me let me know.
39:07
It's there's nothing else like it.
39:08
It's it's it's this world class event, but it's still very much
39:12
sort of a locals only kind of thing.
39:14
I mean, it's a generational thing.
39:17
And then the diversity of cars is amazing.
39:19
You'll see some 1950s pickup truck with, you know, 900
39:23
horsepower next to some concept vehicle next to someone in a,
39:26
you know, bone stock GT4 or a Corvette or something.
39:29
It's just a fantastic event. And and just to see to the car
39:32
slow down the higher it's right with atmospheric power loss,
39:35
there's nothing. You, you definitely don't need
39:37
to convince me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make an
39:40
effort to be there. Please let me know.
39:41
Please let me know. I'll show you.
39:42
Around. Thank you.
39:44
And you know, I think something else too.
39:46
Kids, once you have kids, right, your priorities change.
39:49
And I know that Nilu, I think is is named after your your two
39:52
kids. Is that right?
39:53
Absolutely. Yes.
39:54
Yeah. Nika and Lucia and.
39:55
Yeah, yeah. In the in the number 27 has
39:59
special significance for you as as well.
40:02
Would you share what that is? Yeah, so that was that magazine
40:05
clipping that I was talking about a bit earlier that I got
40:07
my hands on that kind of pivoted me, you know, made me fall in
40:11
love with Cars for Life. And that was your Villeneuve's
40:15
number 27 Formula One Ferrari. And when I started watching F1,
40:21
about a decade later when they started showing it on Russian
40:23
television, I also saw #27 Ferrari.
40:26
And I thought that probably was the same driver, but of course I
40:29
did. I wasn't.
40:30
It was John Easy and was a Ferrari fan as a kid and always
40:33
kind of drawing cars with #27 on them.
40:35
So I figured it's kind of my lucky mascot.
40:38
And now we're starting a company and calling it after our kids,
40:41
my wife and I. And why don't we just put that
40:43
#27 as our little mascot? You know, some companies have a
40:47
Prancing Pony, other companies have a Raging Bull.
40:49
And we just have that #27 that carries our emotional kind of
40:53
message across. I I love it.
40:55
I love it. And I'm sure you see 27
40:57
everywhere now, right? All the time.
40:59
Yeah, every time I pick up like a number from my table at a
41:01
restaurant. Yeah, I know that for me it's
41:04
22, but it's the same kind of thing, you know?
41:06
I know it's going to be a good day.
41:07
Like if I get, you know, 22 on my cup of coffee or something,
41:10
you know? That's funny how that works, you
41:11
know. So I want to talk a little bit.
41:14
My background is actually graphic design and I know you
41:17
have a design consultancy as as well.
41:21
And it's not just automotive design, it's hardline 27 I think
41:24
is what it's called, right. And graphic design is part of
41:26
which I think is so cool. Can you talk a little bit about
41:29
the importance of I guess kind of the convergence of design
41:33
disciplines when it comes to car design and what you do and I
41:35
guess what, what you offer as a, as a firm as well?
41:39
Yeah, so I I do firmly believe in in kind of a holistic
41:42
approach to design. I really don't like it when
41:44
things look like different cooks and different departments.
41:49
Did you know different things on a car, you want everything
41:53
again, sort of referencing back to the tech world.
41:56
You want the OS to look harmonious with the external
42:00
shell of of the phone, right. You don't want them to be
42:03
designed by two different philosophies and and that's why
42:07
we have a very holistic approach.
42:08
We have people on board who kind of own certain subjects, but
42:15
there's also tons of cross pollination.
42:17
So it isn't like, you know, they're working in silos.
42:19
It's really teamwork. Everybody comes together,
42:21
discusses the briefing, discusses the vision for the
42:24
product, discusses the vision for the brand, understands how
42:26
to approach it from an interior designer's perspective, an
42:29
exterior designer's perspective. Brand design.
42:31
We don't call it graphic design, we call it brand design because
42:34
it's a lot of it is corporate identity for us, right?
42:36
It's coming up with a refreshed set of corporate identity
42:38
guidelines, be the logo and the logo type or colors or fonts and
42:43
typography or bespoke typography as well.
42:45
But it all has to fit into the kind of the, the, the
42:49
metaphysical cathedral that the company and the brand
42:53
represents, right? It all has to be part of the,
42:55
part of the, the, the, the quorum of that, of that, of that
42:59
faith, you know, like it really needs to communicate the vision.
43:03
And I really appreciate that We are small, lean, agile.
43:06
And around me, I have people who work in the same kind of way
43:09
that I do, which is very hands on, not not delegating the work,
43:12
but sitting down doing it ourselves.
43:14
And Hardline said three years of very successful operation.
43:17
We had in total recently counted close to 30 clients in the three
43:23
years. So on average about 10 clients
43:24
per year ranging from top of the line tech companies to OEMs that
43:29
everybody has heard of, sports car OEMs and eventually a few
43:34
very interesting startups that had some very novel ideas.
43:36
They wanted us to help them kind of germinate and illustrate very
43:41
rewarding work. Really appreciate it.
43:43
It allows me to have my hand on the pulse of the industry a
43:46
little bit because it's very easy to get sort of sucked into
43:49
your own daily grind and to lose track of what is everybody else
43:52
up to. What are things that are
43:53
happening around me in this industry and, and having
43:56
hardline. Obviously the work is NDA.
43:57
Then obviously they have a super secret and all, but I still am
44:00
exposed to a lot of it and I can then kind of contribute to those
44:06
brands in a meaningful way because I have a landscape in my
44:09
mind. I understand the lay of the land
44:10
a little bit. And then you can tailor make
44:12
your offering. We've done programs that range
44:14
from outright production cars that are kind of all the way
44:17
taken into a release of panels and and, and, and finalizing the
44:22
design. But we've also done plenty of
44:24
work that is front loading work, which is known the concept
44:26
stage, coming up with core pillars for the brand and
44:30
illustrating them into, you know, the guiding principles of
44:33
what they're what they're, you know, stories should look like
44:37
all kinds of work, but very exciting.
44:40
We're, we're picky. We're, we're kind of cheesy at
44:42
this point in time. Just take on any, any, any
44:45
project. For example, I had a, a dream to
44:47
do muscle car work for a long time and kind of tap into the
44:50
American Dino. And we, we, we have a client in
44:53
Florida that allowed us to do that.
44:55
And there's a couple of exciting projects coming out with them
44:57
soon. So we're, we're picky, but I, I
45:00
embrace a lot more. Like Nilu is quite narrowly
45:06
focused, sure. And hardline is the opposite.
45:09
And then they kind of yin and Yang each other in that way.
45:11
And in my mind, they create a more It's a wholesome experience
45:16
for me as a designer and as an entrepreneur.
45:19
That sounds like the perfect balance.
45:20
It sounds like a dream job, right?
45:21
I mean, it's it's something I've learned as a graphic designers.
45:24
You really can't isolate yourself any longer, right?
45:26
It has to be that convergence. It has to be a holistic approach
45:30
or it just doesn't work. It's just not how how the world
45:32
works anymore, right? Those days are those days are
45:35
done. What exciting thing.
45:37
I mean, it's just you know, then you're not locked into the car
45:39
thing all the time either, right?
45:41
It's it's you've got something else going on.
45:43
But back to the car, because I think you've got a production
45:47
schedule now, right? I think 1st 15 cars are track
45:51
only coming out next year 26. Well, we will make some
45:56
announcements soon, but according to our engineering
46:00
team, it might not be that 15 track cars are first, it might
46:05
be that we are slotting them into the production run here and
46:08
there. So we're, we're still working on
46:09
the details of that. There is logistics, there is a
46:12
supply chain, there is a, let's say the, the business side of
46:15
things at play here as well. But yeah, we've we are committed
46:19
to 15 non strictly speaking Herald legal units and 54
46:23
homologated Rd. Rd. legal cars here.
46:26
Cool, cool, cool. And I guess your potential
46:29
customer, what makes an ELU customer different say than
46:31
someone who will just, you know, at least theoretically go into a
46:34
Ferrari dealership and drop similar coin on a like a Daytona
46:37
SP3, right? How is your prospective customer
46:40
different? Well, I don't actually think
46:43
that they are because most of our customers are, are pretty
46:47
big connoisseurs and collectors of that of that type of vehicle.
46:50
So some of them, for some of them it's the first, it's the
46:54
first purchase. We actually have concluded a
46:58
sale with one such customer recently, very recently for
47:03
first time hyper car buyer. That's very exciting for us.
47:06
But most of them are seasoned hyper car collectors and they
47:09
really have a pretty well trained eye and expectation
47:14
level and they kind of know the experience all too well.
47:17
So I do think that there's a general shift happening at the
47:21
moment where our message lands really well with our prospective
47:25
customers. The message of back to the
47:27
roots, the message of decomplexing the vehicle, less
47:30
reliance on the electronics, putting the driver back in the
47:33
driver's seat. Like you earlier, Ryan started
47:36
with listing out the specs of the needle.
47:39
We don't headline with that stuff on purpose.
47:41
I mean, for me, the headline is the driver is in the driver's
47:43
seat and with you as a driver can get out of it.
47:46
If it's a sub 3 second zero to 100 kilometer acceleration, I'll
47:50
applaud you for doing that. But that just means that you
47:52
found the perfect day, the perfect Rd. condition, and you
47:56
timed your shifts perfectly and you worked that clutch and you
47:58
worked that throttle pedal. And it's more of your
48:00
accomplishment. I mean, obviously it's in the
48:02
car. The car can pull it off, but it
48:04
won't do much to help you either.
48:05
So, so you know that that headline spec isn't something
48:09
that we advertise on our front page because it's up to the
48:12
driver. That's what we want to talk
48:14
about. And and in that sense, it's
48:17
finding a lot of traction and a great reception from the
48:19
customer community because they are tired of these soulless car
48:24
as an appliance car as a tech gadgets approach that has even
48:30
trickled over to hypercar world from the Teslas and the Lucids
48:36
of this world. It has also trickled into the
48:38
hypercar world now. And the customer doesn't want
48:41
much of that in the future. Perfectly coinciding with my own
48:44
dream and my own ambition. I've always wanted to do just
48:47
that and all of a sudden the market seems very ripe.
48:49
For it, can we talk a little bit about car week because I think
48:52
for someone like me or for the average person that that comes
48:55
to car week, it's just kind of fun it's it's you know, it's a
48:57
show, but for Someone Like You, you're working you're actually
49:00
selling cars, right Gordon Murray or a you know a singer
49:04
they're they're selling cars so what's your what's your take on
49:07
car week from a from your perspective I mean you you're
49:10
selling cars right of. Course we are.
49:12
I mean, that's that's what we're here for.
49:15
We're trying to build a successful company.
49:17
You know, we're early days still, but that's what we're
49:18
doing. And the experience is you can't
49:21
you just can't miss our week. You cannot not go.
49:25
You know, it's just such a it's such an incredible melting pot
49:29
gathering of both the industry and the clientele and the media.
49:33
So, you know, if you're not there, you're missing out on
49:36
effectively the highlight of the year.
49:37
It's intense, it's tiring. It's actually quite grueling
49:40
with schedule there and you're, you're kind of every day
49:44
wondering how much can I bear this for?
49:47
But but it's, it's a must. We really can't, Yeah.
49:50
Can't not go though. What are the highlights?
49:55
Well, for, for me, first of all, my wife and I, we went for the
49:58
first time to Monterey for car week when we were students.
50:01
And we just went in like, you know, rented a car, got a few of
50:05
our friends together, went there without any tickets to anything
50:08
and just kind of BS our way into most events and climbed under
50:12
the fence of the others and cheated our way for the, you
50:15
know, the rest. And that was our first
50:17
experience and bumping into some legendary designers there
50:20
saying, hi, I'm Sasha. And like, can I have your
50:22
autograph basically? So now you go in there and it's
50:25
a whole different experience. Last year we presented our car
50:27
at the at the awards ramp in Pebble Beach.
50:30
And I'm just standing there pinching myself thinking, holy
50:33
crap. You know, like I was here as a
50:35
kid just just fighting for an autograph.
50:37
I was here as a designer for all these amazing companies
50:40
presenting their output or being part of the crew with the car.
50:44
There some cases with Kennexag, for example, on the stage
50:47
presenting as well. But here I am with my own
50:50
creation, something that's lived in my mind for such a long time.
50:53
And here we are where it's a small team, tiny team is just my
50:56
wife, myself and a couple of other people.
50:58
And we have to do everything from loading, unloading to
51:00
repairing to putting up beach flags and looking for sandbags
51:04
and repainting the scratched paint on the on the floor.
51:08
But like all that stuff we have to do.
51:09
But what a reward. Then you stand there at this
51:11
awards ramp and you, I really wonder, did I just did I just
51:15
present my car to the world here?
51:18
Like that's just, you can't, you know?
51:21
I can't imagine what that must feel like.
51:23
I just that you have that you've come full circle like that, that
51:26
you are the guy now. You know, signing autographs
51:29
much must just be the coolest, but I.
51:31
Try to not forget, well, I don't forget the humble beginnings.
51:36
And I think that most of those people, you know, approaching
51:39
now with with a comment or a request for an autograph or a
51:42
picture, they're slated to do some great things in their life.
51:45
So you have to kind of, yeah, you obviously have to treat
51:49
everybody with respect and with dignity.
51:50
But these people show their passion.
51:52
They wear it on their sleeve. So they'll, they'll, they'll do
51:55
great things, I have no doubt. Yeah, I love that.
51:58
I absolutely love that. Can I ask what were some of the
52:01
the automotive highlights for you A car week this year?
52:03
Some of the work of others that you thought was pretty great?
52:06
I think 1 car really stole the show and it was the S1 LM, the
52:10
LM, My Plan F1 remake that Gordon Murray's team pulled off.
52:15
I thought that looked fabulous and really pretty and I really
52:18
enjoyed kind of. So I celebrated that result
52:21
together with a couple of people I know from that project.
52:24
So that's a very impressive car. It also shows to me that
52:28
sometimes running after new, new, new isn't, isn't necessary.
52:32
We're not in the, we have reached peak car.
52:35
We're not in a situation where we're looking for peak car.
52:38
We have reached it. So that the innovation for me at
52:41
this point in time is kind of a lot of the times just watering
52:43
down what the peak car should be as far as sports cars are
52:46
concerned. And that they are kind of
52:48
looking back at history and wondering, did we throw the baby
52:52
out with the water? Like, no, we should really
52:54
celebrate the good that there was in those beautiful McLaren.
52:57
F1 is obviously a legendary car. So that they recreated it with
53:00
such respect and with such quality, I find very attractive.
53:03
I, I did similar what we did similar at Canixag with CC850
53:08
and that was a dream project for me as well to kind of celebrate
53:11
the brand's true design kind of beginnings.
53:16
And then in this even more mature and refined way.
53:20
People have an issue with retro. They always say how about that
53:22
stretcher? But so what's wrong with that?
53:23
If it was good, why throw it away?
53:25
Is everything that is tomorrow better than everything that was
53:28
yesterday? Is that like always the case?
53:31
I'm not so sure about that. Yeah, yeah, I love the CC 8:50
53:34
because of that, right? Because it pays, you know,
53:37
tribute right to, you know, what came before it and it's done so
53:40
well. So.
53:42
And what about the GMA, the 33 and the 50?
53:44
What are your, what are your thoughts of this?
53:45
Because in a lot of ways, they're probably some of the
53:48
closest analogues right to the Neelu 27.
53:51
But like, I absolutely love them as far as the concept is
53:54
concerned, I think Gordon's concept is, is incredible.
53:56
And then he doesn't need my approval.
53:59
We all know that he's a he's a legendary name and then knows
54:02
for sure and and the the engine driveway in combination is
54:06
wonderful. I love the kind of scale down 12
54:09
cylinder lightweights, Revs low to Infinity.
54:13
Wonderful packaging is great. Tight, tiny packages that that
54:18
are accooning and just right for the driver.
54:20
Great view angles on the exterior design side for both
54:23
cars under baked. I think the the the LM really
54:28
sets a standard for Gordon Murray.
54:30
I didn't quite like the the both exteriors.
54:32
I felt they were a bit too tame. I'm not.
54:35
I don't think that every car needs to scream that they it
54:37
wants to burn your village. Not at all.
54:40
But but they weren't executed to their fullest potential.
54:43
There are areas which are a bit if you like that Rear end for me
54:45
was a bit iffy on the 250 narrow tall, not doing itself any
54:50
favors with the way the graphics were applied, emphasizing height
54:53
instead of width in some cases. But again, from everybody else
54:57
out there, I think these are very compelling products,
55:00
Analog, manual, perfect sound, wonderful packaging.
55:05
And now with the new iteration of cars, I think they've also
55:08
unlocked the INESS and the design side as well.
55:12
Yeah, yeah, I think that's what's so great about your car.
55:15
It's got a presence right that even those two wonderful cars
55:18
don't have. And I I think for someone my
55:21
age, it's just it presses the right buttons, right?
55:24
It gets me excited, right. You know, you walk around at
55:26
every angle is a is a good one. It's an event, right?
55:29
Can't imagine what it's like to drive, but just even looking at
55:32
it as an event it's. A special thing.
55:34
As a lot at the beginning, it's it's, it's such a cool thing.
55:38
And again, it must feel so amazing to know that that's
55:41
yours, that that's your baby. But I know no small amount of
55:44
hard work, you know, has gone behind all this.
55:47
And so congratulations on something pretty wonderful.
55:50
Thank you. Thank you very much.
55:51
It's, it is a huge challenge. It's the challenge of our lives
55:56
to, to, to succeed, but we are doing everything right and we're
56:00
supported by a very passionate group of people around us.
56:06
And that group is growing. And there will be some very
56:08
important announcements coming up soon about the progress that
56:11
we've made in the, in the last year.
56:13
So epic journey, really loved every moment of it so far.
56:17
And then we're still at the beginning.
56:19
I mean, I'm 42 now, but it still feels like the mountain is there
56:23
for me to climb. Even after all the years and all
56:25
the other smaller mountains that that that's that's that were
56:30
successfully navigated to, there's still a big one in.
56:32
Front Where do we find you? Your cars, your consultancy
56:35
online, Sasha. Well, cars neilu27.com
56:41
consultancyhardline27.com both are pretty active on Instagram.
56:46
Look up hardline 27 official or neilu 27 official for our
56:49
Instagram accounts. I also have a private Instagram
56:52
accounts, Sasha Soli panel that sometimes active one and they
56:55
they do they do all have very different narratives to tell.
56:58
So you know, speaking to you right now.
57:01
I'm saying things also as a private person, not only as a as
57:05
a representative of Neelu or hardline, but there's there's
57:10
there's some split in the way the narratives are are handled
57:13
there. Cool, excited.
57:15
Excited to see new followers always.
57:18
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you're a great follower and
57:20
all the pages are are are fantastic follows as well.
57:23
One last question for you. You're a music fan, are you not?
57:25
Yeah, big time. I've seen some concert T-shirts
57:28
installed, So what are you listening to when you're
57:31
designing? What are you putting on?
57:33
So that was actually one of the very formative things in my life
57:37
and in my career. From the early days, my mom used
57:40
to challenge my brother and I. My brother is actually a
57:42
composer of serious kind of musician, but as we were kids
57:45
she would always challenge us to close our eyes and imagine a
57:48
visual narrative for any piece of music that she would play.
57:52
And then she would stop the music and have us retell what we
57:54
imagined. So for me this connection
57:56
between visual and overall is is actually very strong.
57:59
So I I do find the right sub genre of metal for each project.
58:05
OK. I can I.
58:07
Love it. You can get the right vibes from
58:08
but I mean, we can laugh about it because metal maybe to some
58:11
people is very kind of homogeneous in a way, but it
58:14
really isn't because there are things that are incredibly slow
58:18
paced, landscapey and very abstract.
58:20
And there are things that are fast-paced, brutal and and there
58:22
are things that are very mathematically driven with
58:25
complex time signatures and polyrhythms and then weird kind
58:28
of shifts. And then there are other things
58:30
that are monumental and and huge.
58:32
So depending on the project, you really can find the right kind
58:37
of soundscape that that, that that puts your mind, you know,
58:41
in the in the mode that creates visual forms and language that
58:47
coincides with the music that was originally picked out to
58:52
guide you towards a result for that particular project.
58:55
Yeah. I love that.
58:57
I love that. Well, Sasha Selipanov, I, I
59:00
thank you for joining us on that car show today.
59:03
We cannot wait to see what's next.
59:05
Thank you so much. I.
59:06
Appreciate it, Ryan, it was a pleasure.
59:08
Thank you very much and thank you to all the listeners.