Latest / Revisionist History / The Invention of an Epidemic
Transcript
- 0:16Speaker 1: Pushkin.
- 0:22Speaker 2: Hello, hello, everyone. It's Malcolm Gladwell. I'm here today to
- 0:26Speaker 2: bring you something special. A chapter from my new book,
- 0:30Speaker 2: The American Way of Killing, The Invention of an Epidemic.
- 0:34Speaker 2: It's chapter two, called The Slave Owner's Lament. And it is,
- 0:38Speaker 2: to use a word we love here at Revisionist History,
- 0:41Speaker 2: the absolutely bananas story behind a Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,
- 0:46Speaker 2: the Gun Rights Amendment, with guest appearances by 18th century Virginians,
- 0:51Speaker 2: a brilliant Australian linguist, the delightfully named historian Carl Bogus,
- 0:56Speaker 2: a lot of cranky Supreme Court justices, and most of all,
- 1:00Speaker 2: a charismatic African slave named Jemmy. I am pleased to
- 1:05Speaker 2: announce the publication of my new book, The American Way
- 1:08Speaker 2: of Killing, The Invention of an Epidemic. Four episodes in
- 1:13Speaker 2: all on maybe one of the most complicated and perplexing
- 1:16Speaker 2: of American social issues. My new book is coming out
- 1:20Speaker 2: September 29th. You can find all of my book tour
- 1:23Speaker 2: dates on my website, global.com. Come and see me. And
- 1:26Speaker 2: if you're in the New York area, I'll be at
- 1:28Speaker 2: the 92nd Street Y in conversation with Katie Tour of
- 1:31Speaker 2: NBC News on the evening of September 29th, which should
- 1:36Speaker 2: be really fun. Doing this book opened my eyes. and
- 1:41Speaker 2: I hope it will do the same for you. You
- 1:44Speaker 2: can get The American Way of Killing at whatever bookstore
- 1:47Speaker 2: you frequent or online platform you like. And you can
- 1:51Speaker 2: find the audiobook version at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever
- 1:57Speaker 2: you get audiobooks.
- 2:05Speaker 3: I won't close my eyes and forget my sorrows I
- 2:12Speaker 3: don't care if the devil takes tomorrow. Ashes to ashes
- 2:21Speaker 3: if I must. I won't leave all my troubles.
- 2:27Speaker 2: Dust to dust. Chapter 2. The Slave Owner's Lament In
- 2:38Speaker 2: the early years of the 18th century, In the long
- 2:41Speaker 2: stretches of marshland known as the South Carolina Low Country,
- 2:46Speaker 2: the local authorities decided they needed to dig a network
- 2:49Speaker 2: of canals leading off the Stono River. The Stono is
- 2:54Speaker 2: a tidal channel just south and west of Charleston, snaking
- 2:58Speaker 2: its way between Johns Island and James Island. In the spring,
- 3:02Speaker 2: its banks would overflow, flooding roads and homes and farmland,
- 3:07Speaker 2: and the idea was to build the equivalent of storm
- 3:09Speaker 2: sewers off the river. They were six feet deep and
- 3:13Speaker 2: 15 to 20 feet wide, so substantial that many are
- 3:17Speaker 2: still there today. Digging them out of the heavy mud
- 3:21Speaker 2: was a massive undertaking. The historian Peter Charles Hoffer writes, quote,
- 3:27Speaker 2: bending over shovels and mattocks in the snake and insect
- 3:30Speaker 2: infected waters, the diggers were exposed to the elements, disease
- 3:35Speaker 2: and exhaustion. He went on, the summer heat would create
- 3:39Speaker 2: terrible thirst. But the brackish water at the diggers' feet
- 3:43Speaker 2: was filled with deadly bacteria, parasites, and waste. This was
- 3:49Speaker 2: not a task the white colonists of South Carolina would
- 3:52Speaker 2: ever dream of doing themselves. It was a job for
- 3:55Speaker 2: their slaves. Imagine a group of two dozen or so bondsmen,
- 4:02Speaker 2: as slaves were often euphemistically called, digging ditches off the
- 4:06Speaker 2: Stono River. It's early September, 1739. The profits from rice
- 4:12Speaker 2: cultivation in that part of South Carolina were so large
- 4:16Speaker 2: that it was often cheaper for plantation owners to work
- 4:19Speaker 2: their slaves to death and buy replacements than to try
- 4:22Speaker 2: and keep their existing slaves alive. So these are men
- 4:27Speaker 2: fresh off the boat from Angola and what was then
- 4:29Speaker 2: called Congo with a K. It was a Saturday. They
- 4:34Speaker 2: had been out in the hot sun all day and
- 4:36Speaker 2: faced the prospect of having to do the same thing
- 4:39Speaker 2: the following day, because ditch digging was considered so urgent
- 4:43Speaker 2: that the normal Sunday day of rest was suspended. They
- 4:47Speaker 2: were exhausted. Their white overseer had left early. They were
- 4:52Speaker 2: on their own. Across the river from where they were
- 4:55Speaker 2: working was a general store called Hutchinson's. At the end
- 4:59Speaker 2: of the workday, they crossed over the river and made
- 5:03Speaker 2: their way to the store for food and refreshment. No
- 5:08Speaker 2: one knows exactly when and why this ragged band of
- 5:10Speaker 2: slaves changed course. But between the ditches and Hutchinson's, exhaustion
- 5:16Speaker 2: turned to anger. One of the group, Jemmy, emerged as
- 5:20Speaker 2: the leader. The store was closed. They broke in. They
- 5:24Speaker 2: found two men inside. They killed them both. Someone would
- 5:28Speaker 2: later allege that the rebels cut off their victims' heads
- 5:31Speaker 2: and impaled them on a stake outside. They looted the store,
- 5:35Speaker 2: taking rifles and ammunition and alcohol with them. They started
- 5:39Speaker 2: off marching down the road, beating drums and crying, Liberty!
- 5:44Speaker 2: Other slaves joined them. It was now the middle of
- 5:47Speaker 2: the night. When they saw the houses of slave owners,
- 5:50Speaker 2: they made a decision. Is this someone who treats us
- 5:53Speaker 2: with even a modicum of kindness? If so, they skipped
- 5:57Speaker 2: the house. If not, they burned the house down and
- 6:00Speaker 2: killed everyone inside. One contemporary account reads, They marched on
- 6:06Speaker 2: with colors displayed and two drums beating, pursuing all the
- 6:11Speaker 2: white people they met with and killing man, woman, and
- 6:14Speaker 2: child when they could come up to them. End of quote.
- 6:19Speaker 2: By morning, they were more than a hundred strong and
- 6:22Speaker 2: miles from the Stono River. Since it was Sunday, most
- 6:27Speaker 2: of the white population of the Lowcountry was in church,
- 6:30Speaker 2: so Jemmy's band marched on without incident. Finally, they were
- 6:34Speaker 2: spotted by South Carolina's lieutenant governor, William Bull. Bull had
- 6:39Speaker 2: been sounding the alarm for some time that South Carolina's slaves, quote,
- 6:43Speaker 2: which were the state's chief support, may in little time
- 6:47Speaker 2: become their enemies, if not their masters, and that this
- 6:50Speaker 2: government is unable to withstand or prevent it, end of quote.
- 6:56Speaker 2: One of his companions raced to a nearby church, Willtown Presbyterian.
- 7:00Speaker 2: He rounded up as many men as he could, News spread.
- 7:04Speaker 2: Other men grabbed their guns and joined. The rebels were
- 7:07Speaker 2: resting on Ponds Ponds Road near Jacksonboro. The two sides clashed,
- 7:12Speaker 2: and in a fierce and bloody encounter, the rebels were defeated.
- 7:24Speaker 2: If you were a slave owner in the South, you
- 7:26Speaker 2: knew about the Stono Rebellion, especially if you lived in
- 7:30Speaker 2: South Carolina or Virginia. You read about it in the newspaper.
- 7:35Speaker 2: Or someone who was there wrote you about it or
- 7:38Speaker 2: told you about it at church. Every white planter knew
- 7:41Speaker 2: that a day of reckoning was coming. In Barbados, where
- 7:44Speaker 2: many of the founding fathers of the South Carolina colony
- 7:47Speaker 2: came from, the British could barely keep their slaves under control.
- 7:52Speaker 2: Uprisings were a constant worry on the slave ships coming
- 7:56Speaker 2: from Africa. Slaves ran away. They fought back. They engaged
- 8:01Speaker 2: in frequent acts of disobedience and resistance. You could whip
- 8:05Speaker 2: your slaves into submission, starve them, punish them, or simply
- 8:09Speaker 2: sell the troublemakers to someone else. But at the end
- 8:12Speaker 2: of the day, you had to live with the reality
- 8:15Speaker 2: that it was only a matter of time before the
- 8:17Speaker 2: cauldron bubbled over. At the Monticello plantation in Virginia, where
- 8:22Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson lived with his immediate family, there were as
- 8:25Speaker 2: many as 140 slaves at any given moment, and only
- 8:30Speaker 2: a few white overseers. In South Carolina, slaves composed over 70%
- 8:35Speaker 2: of the total population of the colony. And if you
- 8:38Speaker 2: ventured out as far as the Stono River, the ratio
- 8:41Speaker 2: of black to white on plantations reached 10 to 1,
- 8:45Speaker 2: or even 15 to 1. If you had to ride
- 8:49Speaker 2: to town on business, or go to the state capitol
- 8:52Speaker 2: for a few days, leaving your wife and children at home,
- 8:55Speaker 2: could you feel safe? Thomas Jefferson said, would famously describe
- 9:00Speaker 2: the practice of slavery as grabbing a wolf by the ears.
- 9:04Speaker 2: It was too dangerous to continue, but too dangerous to stop.
- 9:09Speaker 2: And then comes the Stoner Rebellion, and that pit in
- 9:13Speaker 2: your stomach becomes a molten mass. What was behind Jemmy's insurrection?
- 9:19Speaker 2: They were headed south, which suggests that perhaps they were
- 9:23Speaker 2: trying to reach Florida, then under Spanish control, where escaped
- 9:27Speaker 2: slaves could find safe haven. But if that were the case,
- 9:31Speaker 2: why did the slaves go on such a rampage? A
- 9:34Speaker 2: more plausible explanation, and to the slave owners of the South,
- 9:38Speaker 2: the more terrifying one, is that Jemmy and his followers
- 9:42Speaker 2: were just out for blood. This is how the law
- 9:45Speaker 2: professor Carl Bogus described it to me.
- 9:48Speaker 4: They beat drums and made noise and cried out liberty
- 9:51Speaker 4: and flew flags and asked people to join them. I
- 9:55Speaker 4: think clearly their objective, we're just going to kill as
- 9:57Speaker 4: many of you as possible. Of course, there was a
- 9:59Speaker 4: lot of rage.
- 10:02Speaker 2: This chapter is about the Second Amendment to the United
- 10:05Speaker 2: States Constitution. The sentence that squats at the very center
- 10:10Speaker 2: of every discussion of the place of guns in American society.
- 10:14Speaker 2: It's about how the conversation around the Second Amendment is
- 10:18Speaker 2: every bit as dishonest as the conversation around assault rifles.
- 10:22Speaker 2: And why is it dishonest? Because it pretends that we
- 10:25Speaker 2: can talk about the meaning of the Second Amendment in
- 10:27Speaker 2: a without regard to the motivations of the men who
- 10:30Speaker 2: conceived of it back in the 18th century. As historian
- 10:35Speaker 2: Peter Charles Hoffer has written, The master portrayed himself as
- 10:39Speaker 2: the good father, the head of an extended household, in
- 10:43Speaker 2: which slaves were childlike laborers, women were submissive helpmeets, and
- 10:48Speaker 2: servants were obedient and loyal. Masters could put on a
- 10:52Speaker 2: stern face, like the biblical patriarchs, or act the loving
- 10:56Speaker 2: and affectionate father. Hoffer is speaking of the psychology of
- 11:00Speaker 2: the white men who grabbed their guns that Sunday morning
- 11:04Speaker 2: and rode off to confront Jemmy's band. But it was
- 11:08Speaker 2: all an act. He goes on. However he handled sentiment
- 11:13Speaker 2: and authority, the planter was an anxious man. The only
- 11:23Speaker 2: major country in the world other than the United States
- 11:27Speaker 2: to give its citizens the constitutional right to bear arms
- 11:30Speaker 2: is Mexico. Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution reads, The
- 11:36Speaker 2: inhabitants of the United Mexican States have the right to
- 11:39Speaker 2: keep arms at home for their protection and legitimate defense,
- 11:45Speaker 2: with the exception of those prohibited by the federal law
- 11:48Speaker 2: and those reserved for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy,
- 11:53Speaker 2: Air Force and National Guard. Federal law will state the cases, conditions,
- 11:59Speaker 2: requirements and places where inhabitants can be authorized to carry weapons.
- 12:05Speaker 2: Those two sentences that make up Article 10 were written
- 12:09Speaker 2: in 1917, firmly in the modern era. You may or
- 12:13Speaker 2: may not agree with its intent, but there is no
- 12:16Speaker 2: uncertainty about what it means. It says, plainly, that the
- 12:22Speaker 2: Mexican government cannot take guns away from its citizens. At
- 12:26Speaker 2: the same time, though, it gives Mexico's lawmakers a very
- 12:30Speaker 2: clear set of instructions about how they can limit that right.
- 12:35Speaker 2: The government can define the, quote, cases, conditions, requirements, and places,
- 12:42Speaker 2: end quote, where guns are and are not allowed. Mexico
- 12:47Speaker 2: has had its own very serious problems with lethal violence
- 12:50Speaker 2: in recent years. But none of Mexico's problems with controlling
- 12:53Speaker 2: guns are caused by any ambiguities in the country's constitution.
- 12:59Speaker 2: Article 10 is crystal clear. By contrast, the Second Amendment
- 13:05Speaker 2: to the United States Constitution, America's equivalent to Article 10,
- 13:10Speaker 2: is a puzzle. A well-regulated militia being necessary to the
- 13:15Speaker 2: security of a free state, the right of the people
- 13:19Speaker 2: to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. That
- 13:24Speaker 2: sentence was written in the late 18th century, an era
- 13:28Speaker 2: closer to Shakespeare's time than our own, and no one
- 13:31Speaker 2: would write a sentence like that today. It starts with
- 13:34Speaker 2: what some linguists call an initial being clause, which is
- 13:38Speaker 2: a thought that precedes the main body of the sentence. So, quote,
- 13:43Speaker 2: a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a
- 13:47Speaker 2: free state, comma. Then, after that comma, is what's known
- 13:52Speaker 2: as the operative clause. Quote, The right of the people
- 13:57Speaker 2: to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. End
- 14:01Speaker 2: of quote. We don't use initial being clauses much anymore. Moreover,
- 14:07Speaker 2: we would almost never use a being clause next to
- 14:09Speaker 2: an operative clause where the two clauses have different subjects.
- 14:14Speaker 2: That last quirk is what makes the Second Amendment so
- 14:18Speaker 2: awkward to our ears. we keep expecting that militia, the
- 14:22Speaker 2: subject of the initial clause, is also going to be
- 14:25Speaker 2: the subject of the main clause. And to our grammatical bewilderment,
- 14:30Speaker 2: it isn't. The first half of the Second Amendment is
- 14:34Speaker 2: perched on the second half like a top hat on
- 14:37Speaker 2: an elephant. So, what does it mean? What is the
- 14:42Speaker 2: relationship between those two clauses? Does the early reference to
- 14:46Speaker 2: a militia mean that the right of the people to
- 14:49Speaker 2: keep and bear arms applies strictly in the context of
- 14:53Speaker 2: military service? Or is the reason that the first half
- 14:57Speaker 2: has as its subject militia and the second half has
- 15:01Speaker 2: as its subject right that we're supposed to think of
- 15:05Speaker 2: them as separate thoughts, with the initial being clause acting
- 15:09Speaker 2: as a kind of throat clearing? Militias are necessary. Also,
- 15:15Speaker 2: owning guns is a right. For years, this was an
- 15:21Speaker 2: open question. It was the kind of thing that bookish
- 15:25Speaker 2: legal scholars or gun enthusiasts might argue over. But the
- 15:29Speaker 2: meaning of the Second Amendment wasn't something the Supreme Court
- 15:33Speaker 2: spent much time thinking about. In its entire history, through
- 15:37Speaker 2: the early years of the 21st century, only a handful
- 15:41Speaker 2: of Second Amendment cases had ever come before the court.
- 15:45Speaker 2: And they concerned narrow and tangential issues that like whether
- 15:49Speaker 2: Americans had the right to carry a sawed-off shotgun in public.
- 15:54Speaker 2: The First Amendment, which guarantees the right to free speech,
- 15:57Speaker 2: or the 14th Amendment, which grants all Americans equal protection
- 16:01Speaker 2: under the law, raised the kinds of questions that commanded
- 16:05Speaker 2: the Supreme Court's time. The Second Amendment was an afterthought.
- 16:11Speaker 2: All of that changed, however, when in 2008, the Supreme
- 16:15Speaker 2: Court agreed to hear a case called District of Columbia v. Heller.
- 16:21Speaker 2: It involved a police officer in Washington, D.C. named Dick Heller,
- 16:26Speaker 2: who thought he should be able to keep his handgun
- 16:28Speaker 2: at home, just as he was able to keep a
- 16:30Speaker 2: handgun on him while he was on duty. Under D.C. law, however,
- 16:35Speaker 2: personal handgun ownership was forbidden. Denied a gun, Heller sued,
- 16:41Speaker 2: saying that D.C. 's law violated the Second Amendment and
- 16:44Speaker 2: the case rose all the way to the Supreme Court.
- 16:48Speaker 2: Of course, if the United States had a version of
- 16:51Speaker 2: Mexico's Article 10 in its constitution, deciding District of Columbia v.
- 16:56Speaker 2: Heller would have been straightforward. Was the district's law permissible
- 17:01Speaker 2: under the authority given to the government to limit the cases, conditions, requirements,
- 17:07Speaker 2: and places where guns are allowed? Plainly, it was. But
- 17:12Speaker 2: the Second Amendment is not Mexico's Article 10. It is
- 17:16Speaker 2: an initial being clause attached awkwardly to an operative clause
- 17:20Speaker 2: like a top hat on an elephant. And in order
- 17:24Speaker 2: to figure out whether Heller's Second Amendment rights were violated,
- 17:28Speaker 2: the court first had to figure out what the Second
- 17:31Speaker 2: Amendment meant. In other words, before they could be jurists,
- 17:36Speaker 2: the Supreme Court justices had to be grammarians. So it
- 17:42Speaker 2: was that on Tuesday, March 18, 2008, the U.S. Supreme
- 17:47Speaker 2: Court assembled to hear this most consequential of cases. Imagine
- 17:51Speaker 2: the scene. The justices are seated in a row behind
- 17:55Speaker 2: a long, curved mahogany table in the court's central chamber,
- 18:00Speaker 2: an imposing room in the grand neoclassical revival style. 44-foot ceilings,
- 18:06Speaker 2: 24 ionic columns in marble, shipped from Liguria, Italy. Supreme
- 18:13Speaker 2: Court case's begin with oral arguments, when the judges hear
- 18:18Speaker 2: lawyers from both sides advocate for their clients. And here
- 18:21Speaker 2: is how the proceedings that day begin. The lawyer for
- 18:25Speaker 2: the District of Columbia, Walter Dellinger, goes first.
- 18:29Speaker 5: The Second Amendment was a direct response to concern over
- 18:34Speaker 5: Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gave the
- 18:37Speaker 5: new National Congress the surprising, perhaps even the shocking power
- 18:43Speaker 5: to organize, arm, and presumably disarm the state militias.
- 18:49Speaker 2: To Dellinger, it was clear that the people drafting the
- 18:52Speaker 2: Second Amendment were thinking about militias. That's why they put
- 18:56Speaker 2: the Being Clause, a well-regulated militia being necessary to the
- 19:01Speaker 2: security of a free state, at the beginning of the sentence,
- 19:05Speaker 2: framing our understanding of the Operative Clause.
- 19:08Speaker 5: The Amendment's first clause confirms... that the right is militia-related.
- 19:13Speaker 2: The Second Amendment is about the right to bear arms
- 19:16Speaker 2: in the context of military service. The D.C. ban on handguns, then,
- 19:22Speaker 2: is perfectly appropriate. Immediately, the Chief Justice of the United States,
- 19:27Speaker 2: John Roberts, interrupts.
- 19:30Speaker 6: If you're right, Mr.
- 19:31Speaker 1: Dellinger, it's certainly an odd way in the Second Amendment
- 19:36Speaker 1: to phrase the operative provision if it is limited to
- 19:39Speaker 1: state militia's Why would they say the right of the people?
- 19:43Speaker 1: In other words, why wouldn't they say state militias have
- 19:46Speaker 1: the right to keep arms?
- 19:48Speaker 2: The Chief Justice is saying that if the initial being
- 19:52Speaker 2: clause and the operative clause were intended to be read
- 19:55Speaker 2: as one seamless thought, they would have the same subject.
- 20:00Speaker 2: Dellinger shakes his head.
- 20:02Speaker 6: Mr.
- 20:02Speaker 5: Chief Justice, I believe that the phrase the people and
- 20:06Speaker 5: the phrase the militia were really in sync with each other.
- 20:11Speaker 5: You will see references in the debates of the Federalist
- 20:16Speaker 5: farmer uses the phrase the people are the militia The
- 20:19Speaker 5: militia are the people.
- 20:22Speaker 2: It may look like two clauses with different subjects, but
- 20:26Speaker 2: it should be read as two clauses with synonymous subjects.
- 20:31Speaker 2: Got that? The oral argument is only a minute old,
- 20:35Speaker 2: and the Supreme Court has turned into the equivalent of
- 20:38Speaker 2: a fifth-grade classroom, with the students at the blackboard puzzling
- 20:43Speaker 2: over how to parse a sentence. It's Justice Anthony Kennedy's turn.
- 20:50Speaker 6: It seems to me that there is an interpretation of
- 20:53Speaker 6: the Second Amendment that conforms the two clauses and, in effect,
- 20:57Speaker 6: delinks them. The first clause, I submit, can be read
- 21:01Speaker 6: consistently with the purpose of simply reaffirming the existence and
- 21:06Speaker 6: the importance of the militia clauses. And so, in effect,
- 21:10Speaker 6: the amendment says we reaffirm the right to have a militia.
- 21:14Speaker 6: We've established it. But in addition, there is a right
- 21:17Speaker 6: to bear arms.
- 21:19Speaker 2: The being clause, Kennedy is saying, can be delinked from
- 21:24Speaker 2: the operative clause. Kennedy is one of those people who
- 21:28Speaker 2: see the first clause about a well-regulated militia as an
- 21:31Speaker 2: hors d'oeuvre that has nothing to do with the entree.
- 21:34Speaker 2: And the entree in his reading is all that matters.
- 21:38Speaker 2: The right of the people to keep and bear arms
- 21:40Speaker 2: shall not be infringed. The Second Amendment guarantees that everyone
- 21:45Speaker 2: in the U.S. has the right to own and carry
- 21:48Speaker 2: a gun. D.C. 's law is unconstitutional. Dellinger replies, no, no, no,
- 21:54Speaker 2: that makes no sense. That's not how being clauses work.
- 21:58Speaker 2: The function of a being clause is to clarify the
- 22:01Speaker 2: meaning of the rest of the sentence, to contextualize the
- 22:04Speaker 2: operative clause. Otherwise, why would the framers of the Constitution
- 22:09Speaker 2: have put it there at all?
- 22:11Speaker 5: What you see is a clause that that literally transposes
- 22:15Speaker 5: to this because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the
- 22:19Speaker 5: security of a free state, the right of the people
- 22:21Speaker 5: to keep and bear arms shall not be... The.
- 22:25Speaker 2: Back and forth continues. Justice Antonin Scalia chimes in. No, no, no.
- 22:32Speaker 7: I don't see how there's any contradiction between reading the
- 22:38Speaker 7: second clause as a personal guarantee... and reading the first
- 22:42Speaker 7: one as assuring the existence of a militia. The two
- 22:46Speaker 7: clauses go together beautifully. Since we need a militia, the
- 22:50Speaker 7: right of the people to keep and bear arms shall
- 22:51Speaker 7: not be infringed.
- 22:53Speaker 2: Dellinger tries to counter.
- 22:55Speaker 5: Yes, but once you assume that the clause is designed
- 22:58Speaker 5: to protect the militia, surely it's the militia that decides
- 23:03Speaker 5: whether personal possession.
- 23:07Speaker 2: Kennedy jumps in again. The exercise began with one student
- 23:20Speaker 2: at the blackboard with a piece of chalk, diagramming the sentence.
- 23:23Speaker 2: But now the whole class is involved, everyone jostling for
- 23:27Speaker 2: space at the front of the room while they furiously
- 23:30Speaker 2: add their own notations. Asked to weigh in on one
- 23:34Speaker 2: of the most serious of all social issues facing the
- 23:36Speaker 2: United States, the Supreme Court has instead become hung up
- 23:42Speaker 2: on the grammatical structure of a sentence drafted more than
- 23:45Speaker 2: 200 years before, written in a style of English that
- 23:49Speaker 2: no longer exists. The fight over assault rifles is a
- 23:57Speaker 2: dishonest conversation because it pretends to address a real issue,
- 24:01Speaker 2: when in fact every assault rifle ban devotes more pages
- 24:05Speaker 2: to the high-powered rifles exempt from the ban than the
- 24:08Speaker 2: ban itself. But the Second Amendment conversation is equally dishonest.
- 24:13Speaker 2: Because you can't debate 18th century grammar if all you
- 24:17Speaker 2: know is 21st century grammar. And you can't understand the
- 24:20Speaker 2: meaning of an 18th century sentence unless you know something
- 24:24Speaker 2: about the person who wrote that sentence. So let's start
- 24:29Speaker 2: again and try and imagine what an honest conversation about
- 24:33Speaker 2: the Second Amendment looks like. The Second Amendment was written
- 24:39Speaker 2: by James Madison, maybe the most intellectually distinguished of the
- 24:43Speaker 2: Founding Fathers. Madison once wrote, The use of words is
- 24:47Speaker 2: to express ideas. Purpicuity, therefore, requires not only that the
- 24:53Speaker 2: ideas should be distinctly formed, but that they should be
- 24:57Speaker 2: expressed by words distinctly and exclusively appropriate to them. end
- 25:02Speaker 2: of quote. Madison was known for carefully reading the writings
- 25:06Speaker 2: of his contemporaries and removing a phrase or editing a
- 25:10Speaker 2: passage that he didn't think was quite right. He was precise,
- 25:14Speaker 2: almost persnickety about language. As the literary critic Lewis Shadler
- 25:20Speaker 2: wrote once in an analysis of Madison's prose, quote, the
- 25:24Speaker 2: importance of having proper words in proper places was always
- 25:29Speaker 2: strong in his mind, end quote. In his work on
- 25:33Speaker 2: the single most important intellectual and civic project of his lifetime, then,
- 25:39Speaker 2: it is inconceivable that Madison just dashed off a quick
- 25:42Speaker 2: thought and left it at that. Madison never dashed anything off.
- 25:50Speaker 2: The reason the Second Amendment is problematic is simply because
- 25:53Speaker 2: it was written according to a set of rules and
- 25:56Speaker 2: grammatical norms that no longer exist. To understand what he
- 26:01Speaker 2: really meant then We have to think as he, a
- 26:04Speaker 2: man of the late 18th century, did. We need to
- 26:08Speaker 2: enter the mind of James Madison. There are two ways
- 26:12Speaker 2: to do this. The first is through the use of
- 26:14Speaker 2: what are called linguistic corpora. These are massive research databases
- 26:21Speaker 2: that contain hundreds of thousands of digitized documents going back,
- 26:26Speaker 2: in some cases, many hundreds of years. Think of them
- 26:29Speaker 2: as Google Docs. but for dusty old manuscripts buried deep
- 26:34Speaker 2: in library archives. For example, there is something called the
- 26:38Speaker 2: Corpus of Founding Era American English, maintained by Brigham Young
- 26:42Speaker 2: University in Utah, which holds more than 120,000 separate documents
- 26:45Speaker 2: from the period 1765 to 1799, totaling over 130 million words.
- 26:57Speaker 2: If you want to know how many times George Washington
- 27:00Speaker 2: dangled a participle, the C-O-F-E-A can tell you. So what
- 27:06Speaker 2: do linguistic corpora tell us about how James Madison used
- 27:10Speaker 2: being clauses? The most extensive empirical analysis of Madison's prose
- 27:18Speaker 2: has been done by an Australian linguist named Kari Sullivan.
- 27:23Speaker 2: Sullivan picked four corpora that were most relevant to the
- 27:26Speaker 2: period both before and after the writing of the Constitution,
- 27:31Speaker 2: a span covering 650 years. She made a database of
- 27:36Speaker 2: every sentence containing a being clause. She found 1,363. Then
- 27:41Speaker 2: she combed through each example, looking at the way the
- 27:46Speaker 2: being clause was being deployed. Her first conclusion confirms why
- 27:51Speaker 2: Madison's sentence is so mysterious to us today. In the
- 27:55Speaker 2: past 100 years, she found, it has become extremely rare
- 28:00Speaker 2: to find a sentence in published English where an initial
- 28:04Speaker 2: being clause and the main clause that follows have different subjects.
- 28:09Speaker 2: She writes, quote, Since this type of being clause fell
- 28:13Speaker 2: into disuse about 100 years ago, it is reasonable that
- 28:17Speaker 2: modern readers would not have good intuitions about its grammaticality
- 28:22Speaker 2: or its meaning. End of quote. Then she asked, did
- 28:27Speaker 2: Madison use being clauses? Answer, all the time. She found
- 28:34Speaker 2: 976 examples in Madison's writing. Apparently, he loved that construction.
- 28:41Speaker 2: Here's an example. I am obliged to write in a
- 28:45Speaker 2: position that severely limits the use of any of my limbs, Mr.
- 28:50Speaker 2: Jones and myself being lodged in a room not 10
- 28:54Speaker 2: foot square and without a single accommodation for writing. End
- 28:59Speaker 2: of quote. Finally, Sullivan turns to the crucial question. Were
- 29:04Speaker 2: the Justices Roberts, Kennedy, and Scalia correct in their reading
- 29:09Speaker 2: of the Second Amendment? That the initial being clause in
- 29:12Speaker 2: the Second Amendment does not modify the operative clause. That
- 29:16Speaker 2: they are separate thoughts. Remember what Kennedy said? It seems
- 29:21Speaker 2: to me that there is an interpretation of the Second
- 29:23Speaker 2: Amendment in that conforms the two clauses and, in effect,
- 29:28Speaker 2: delinks them? To answer that question, Sullivan went through all
- 29:34Speaker 2: 976 of Madison's initial being clauses to see how many
- 29:40Speaker 2: times Madison used a being clause in this particular way,
- 29:45Speaker 2: as a thought separate from the operative clause next to it.
- 29:50Speaker 2: Her answer? Never. In fact, no one in the late
- 29:54Speaker 2: 18th century used being clauses this way. That kind of
- 29:58Speaker 2: sentence construction, she writes, quote, became ungrammatical over a hundred
- 30:04Speaker 2: years before the writing of the Second Amendment. End of quote.
- 30:08Speaker 2: People stopped writing sentences like that in the 1660s. A
- 30:13Speaker 2: stickler like Madison would no more use a standalone being
- 30:16Speaker 2: clause than a contemporary Supreme Court justice would sprinkle thee
- 30:21Speaker 2: and thou throughout an opinion. Here's how Madison liked to
- 30:25Speaker 2: use being clauses. It being requisite that the office of
- 30:30Speaker 2: accountant to the Department of War be placed in other hands,
- 30:35Speaker 2: you will consider it as ceasing to be in yours
- 30:39Speaker 2: after this date, end of quote. Or in modern English,
- 30:44Speaker 2: why am I firing you? Because I want to give
- 30:47Speaker 2: the job to someone else. Observation and explanation separated by
- 30:54Speaker 2: a comma. Now the Second Amendment makes perfect sense. Why
- 30:59Speaker 2: should the right of the people to keep and bear
- 31:01Speaker 2: arms not be infringed? Because we don't want anything to
- 31:06Speaker 2: threaten the existence. The Second Amendment is about militias. But why?
- 31:17Speaker 2: Why were militias so crucial that a special provision was
- 31:21Speaker 2: made for them in the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,
- 31:25Speaker 2: behind only the right to free speech? To answer that,
- 31:30Speaker 2: we must once again take ourselves back to the mind
- 31:33Speaker 2: of James Madison. Madison was from Virginia. the largest of
- 31:38Speaker 2: the slave-owning states. He grew up on a plantation. His
- 31:42Speaker 2: father owned 100 slaves. His grandfather was allegedly poisoned to
- 31:47Speaker 2: death by three slaves on the family plantation. James Madison
- 31:52Speaker 2: knew all about the Stono Rebellion. He was as petrified
- 31:56Speaker 2: as any other white planter. And for the petrified planter,
- 32:01Speaker 2: the militias were of special importance. Militias were an English invention,
- 32:18Speaker 2: with origins in the passe comitatus, or community force of
- 32:23Speaker 2: the Middle Ages. This was hundreds of years before the
- 32:27Speaker 2: invention of modern police departments. Law and order was imposed
- 32:31Speaker 2: through an informal process. Here is the historian Sally Haddon,
- 32:36Speaker 2: the author of one of the definitive studies of the
- 32:38Speaker 2: colonial militia, Slave Patrol's Law and Violence in Virginia and
- 32:43Speaker 2: the Carolinas.
- 32:45Speaker 8: So every county, every shire has a shiree, a sheriff.
- 32:52Speaker 8: And somebody goes running to the sheriff and says, Sheriff, Sheriff,
- 32:57Speaker 8: somebody has kidnapped my daughter, has stolen my horse, has
- 33:01Speaker 8: done something against the law. And the sheriff has no troops.
- 33:04Speaker 8: Sheriff has nobody working for him. He's it. Where's he
- 33:08Speaker 8: going to get manpower from to go chase that person?
- 33:10Speaker 8: So he issues a hewing cry, and the hewing cry
- 33:13Speaker 8: basically says all able-bodied individuals are basically supposed to come
- 33:18Speaker 8: to his aid and track down the person who's accused.
- 33:22Speaker 8: And the reason why people respond is, it could be
- 33:24Speaker 8: them tomorrow, right? It's your daughter today, it's my child
- 33:29Speaker 8: or my basket or my horse tomorrow.
- 33:32Speaker 2: Over time, that informal means of community protection turned into
- 33:37Speaker 2: a militia, an organized local force used for emergencies and
- 33:42Speaker 2: to confront threats to the community. When colonists came to
- 33:46Speaker 2: the New World, they brought the concept of the militia
- 33:49Speaker 2: with them. Is your town being threatened by Native Americans?
- 33:53Speaker 2: Call in the militia. Are you worried about the Spanish
- 33:56Speaker 2: lurking on your border? Call in the militia. In the South,
- 34:01Speaker 2: the militia took on even greater importance. Slaves were hard
- 34:05Speaker 2: to control, especially at night. They would leave under the
- 34:08Speaker 2: cover of darkness and visit friends at other properties. There
- 34:12Speaker 2: was a curfew. It had to be enforced. Traveling slaves
- 34:16Speaker 2: were supposed to have a pass from their master. Someone
- 34:19Speaker 2: had to check to see if that rule was obeyed,
- 34:21Speaker 2: and if not, administer a whipping. All able-bodied men in
- 34:25Speaker 2: the community took turns volunteering for patrol duty. They were
- 34:30Speaker 2: carefully mapped out patrol routes, rules of engagement. If anyone
- 34:34Speaker 2: tried to tinker with the system, there were cries of outrage.
- 34:38Speaker 2: One plantation owner in South Carolina named Samuel McGowan writes
- 34:43Speaker 2: this in a letter to the state's governor. Our state
- 34:47Speaker 2: has no other reliance against foreign invasion or internal commotion
- 34:52Speaker 2: than her own citizens organized under the militia system into
- 34:56Speaker 2: an army of about 40,000 citizen soldiers liable to do
- 35:01Speaker 2: ordinary militia duty. The institution of slavery... requires that we
- 35:06Speaker 2: should keep up the patrol, and it is intimately connected
- 35:10Speaker 2: with and based upon the militia system. Why is McGowan
- 35:17Speaker 2: so adamant? Because everyone still remembered the Stono Rebellion. It
- 35:22Speaker 2: was a slave patrol that came running from Wiltown Presbyterian
- 35:25Speaker 2: Church to confront Jemmy's band on Ponds Ponds Road. The
- 35:30Speaker 2: reason the men at church that day had their weapons
- 35:32Speaker 2: with them is that able-bodied men in South Carolina had
- 35:36Speaker 2: to be ready to serve in the local militia, even
- 35:39Speaker 2: on a Sunday. And in response to the Stono rebellion,
- 35:43Speaker 2: the planters doubled down. They increased the number of patrols
- 35:46Speaker 2: along the Stono River. They convinced the state legislature to
- 35:51Speaker 2: prohibit slaves from growing their own food, learning to read,
- 35:54Speaker 2: earning money, or gathering in groups. If you are a
- 35:58Speaker 2: plantation owner and your slaves, your property, are, without warning,
- 36:03Speaker 2: going to march down the highway, killing every white person
- 36:06Speaker 2: in sight, you and your neighbors have to be ready.
- 36:12Speaker 2: So the members of the patrol have a kind of
- 36:14Speaker 2: intimate knowledge of the workings of the area that they're
- 36:18Speaker 2: drawn from. This is the guy next door.
- 36:21Speaker 8: In fact, this is the guy next door who knows
- 36:22Speaker 8: you and knows if you're an enslaved person, knows if
- 36:26Speaker 8: you drink, if you're married, how many kids you've got,
- 36:30Speaker 8: and could probably predict whether you're likely to run away
- 36:34Speaker 8: or not.
- 36:35Speaker 2: This was the fragile system of social control that the
- 36:38Speaker 2: South created for itself in the first half of the
- 36:42Speaker 2: 18th century. Then, in the spring of 1775, the Revolutionary
- 36:45Speaker 2: War began. The governor of Virginia, John Murray, Earl of Dunmore,
- 36:53Speaker 2: was a British appointee who intended to remain loyal to
- 36:57Speaker 2: the crown. He issued a proclamation in which he promised
- 37:00Speaker 2: freedom to any slave who wanted to join the British side.
- 37:04Speaker 2: The planters panicked.
- 37:08Speaker 8: There's a tremendous amount of fear that enslaved people will
- 37:11Speaker 8: begin to learn about this, that they will take advantage
- 37:14Speaker 8: of that kind of knowledge. That's the kind of rumor
- 37:16Speaker 8: that spreads like wildfire, right?
- 37:19Speaker 3: And.
- 37:20Speaker 8: It's something that is, it's not just an annoyance. It
- 37:25Speaker 8: can't be ignored. You know, if the British army shows
- 37:28Speaker 8: up in force, you know, who's going to run away?
- 37:33Speaker 2: The best estimates, Haddon said, were that as many as
- 37:36Speaker 2: 50,000 slaves took up Dunmore's offer and fled to the
- 37:40Speaker 2: British side. British ships started sailing up and down the
- 37:44Speaker 2: Carolina coast. The threat of more insurrections and desertions became real.
- 37:50Speaker 9: So if I own a plantation in South Carolina and
- 37:55Speaker 9: the British are sailing up and down the coast, I'm
- 38:01Speaker 9: even more anxious than I normally am.
- 38:04Speaker 8: Well, I mean, you've got reason to be. The British
- 38:07Speaker 8: attack Savannah, and then they attack Charleston. They take Charleston once.
- 38:12Speaker 8: They attack, and when they lose it, they take it again.
- 38:15Speaker 8: That's 1782. And so there are, I mean, these larger
- 38:23Speaker 8: seaport cities face the Atlantic. What's the big advantage that
- 38:27Speaker 8: the British have? Their Navy. I mean, they can basically
- 38:30Speaker 8: sail into Savannah Harbor or Charleston Harbor, open their gun ports, and,
- 38:33Speaker 8: you know, what are the Americans to do?
- 38:37Speaker 2: And who is among the most alarmed by Dunmore's proclamation?
- 38:41Speaker 2: James Madison. This is his governor, after all. Madison writes
- 38:47Speaker 2: to a friend, It is imagined our governor has been
- 38:50Speaker 2: tampering with the slaves and that he has it in
- 38:53Speaker 2: contemplation to make great use of them in case of
- 38:57Speaker 2: a civil war in this province. To say the truth,
- 39:01Speaker 2: that is the only part in which this colony is vulnerable.
- 39:05Speaker 2: And if we should be subdued, we shall fall like
- 39:09Speaker 2: Achilles by the hand of one that knows that secret.
- 39:14Speaker 2: An out-of-control slave population was the Achilles' heel of the South, the, quote,
- 39:23Speaker 2: only part in which this colony is vulnerable, end quote.
- 39:27Speaker 2: Virginia had one chance at survival, a well-regulated militia. In
- 39:37Speaker 2: June 1788, delegations from all corners of Virginia gathered in
- 39:42Speaker 2: the Richmond Theater in the state's capital. The war had
- 39:46Speaker 2: been won. All eyes were to the future, and at
- 39:49Speaker 2: issue was whether to ratify the Constitution of the brand-new
- 39:53Speaker 2: idea known as the United States of America. Virginia was
- 39:58Speaker 2: the largest and most important of all the colonies that
- 40:01Speaker 2: had just defeated the British Army. Seven of the 56
- 40:05Speaker 2: signatories to the Declaration of Independence were from Virginia. George
- 40:09Speaker 2: Washington was a Virginian. So were Thomas Jefferson, James Madison,
- 40:15Speaker 2: and James Monroe, each of whom would go on to
- 40:17Speaker 2: occupy the White House. In order to approve the Constitution,
- 40:22Speaker 2: nine of the 13 colonies needed to vote in favor.
- 40:26Speaker 2: And without Virginia's approval, the movement to create a federal
- 40:30Speaker 2: United States would in all likelihood die. On one side
- 40:35Speaker 2: was James Madison, the leading Federalist of his day. Without
- 40:39Speaker 2: a strong central government, Madison thought the states would lapse
- 40:44Speaker 2: into chaos and economic dysfunction. On the other side were
- 40:48Speaker 2: the Anti-Federalists, led by the former governor of Virginia, Patrick Henry.
- 40:54Speaker 2: he of the famous revolutionary war cry, give me liberty
- 40:58Speaker 2: or give me death. Henry read the draft of the
- 41:01Speaker 2: proposed Constitution and was deeply suspicious. For 25 straight days
- 41:08Speaker 2: in 1788, almost the entire month of June, all eyes
- 41:14Speaker 2: were on the Richmond Theater. Newspapers wrote daily updates. Crowds
- 41:19Speaker 2: thronged the public galleries. Countless others gathered in the streets outside.
- 41:24Speaker 2: This is how the law professor Carl Bogus describes the
- 41:28Speaker 2: Virginia Convention.
- 41:29Speaker 4: It is clearly one of the most dramatic events in
- 41:37Speaker 4: the formation of the United States. With this showdown between
- 41:43Speaker 4: this collection of luminaries, the Federalist body and the Anti-Federalist body,
- 41:49Speaker 4: both staffed with among the most famous people at the time—
- 41:54Speaker 4: battling about whether they're going to ratify the Constitution, and
- 41:59Speaker 4: that itself is rare. And what makes this extraordinarily rare
- 42:06Speaker 4: is we have a transcript of it, a pretty damn
- 42:10Speaker 4: good transcript of it, which was highly unusual then. Highly,
- 42:15Speaker 4: highly unusual.
- 42:17Speaker 2: The transcript of the Richmond debates tells us exactly why
- 42:21Speaker 2: Patrick Henry and those allied with him were so dubious
- 42:25Speaker 2: of the proposed Constitution. And it tells us exactly what
- 42:30Speaker 2: James Madison said and did to win them over. How
- 42:34Speaker 2: much attention had historians paid to the Virginia ratifying convention?
- 42:42Speaker 4: Little or none. I mean, I wasn't I hadn't read it.
- 42:48Speaker 4: I don't recall reading anything about it until I went
- 42:52Speaker 4: and searched it out and read it.
- 42:55Speaker 2: Yeah, which is weird because, as you argue, it's an
- 42:58Speaker 2: incredibly crucial... The Constitution is hanging in the balance. What
- 43:04Speaker 2: Bogus discovered was that in the pivotal debates in the
- 43:07Speaker 2: Richmond Theatre, one issue kept coming up again and again.
- 43:12Speaker 2: The militia. Patrick Henry said, was worried that the Constitution,
- 43:18Speaker 2: as proposed, would shut down the malicious system. Everything would
- 43:22Speaker 2: now be in the hands of the federal government, a
- 43:25Speaker 2: federal government likely to be dominated by northern states that
- 43:29Speaker 2: were either hostile or indifferent to the institution of slavery.
- 43:34Speaker 2: Here's what Henry said in one of the many speeches
- 43:37Speaker 2: he gave to the ratifying convention, referring to the part
- 43:41Speaker 2: of the proposed Constitution that gave Congress sweeping powers, over
- 43:46Speaker 2: state militias. By this, sir, you see that their control
- 43:51Speaker 2: over our last and best defense is unlimited. If they
- 43:56Speaker 2: neglect or refuse to discipline or arm our militia, they
- 44:00Speaker 2: will be useless. The states can do neither, this power
- 44:04Speaker 2: being exclusively given to Congress. Our situation will be deplorable indeed.
- 44:13Speaker 2: Henry didn't need to spell out what he meant by
- 44:16Speaker 2: that word, deplorable. He was speaking to a convention full
- 44:21Speaker 2: of anxious slave owners who went to bed every night
- 44:24Speaker 2: in Richmond over those 25 long days, worried sick about
- 44:28Speaker 2: the safety of their children and wives back home on
- 44:31Speaker 2: the plantation. James Madison had a mutiny on his hands.
- 44:39Speaker 2: If he wanted to save the Constitution... he needed to
- 44:42Speaker 2: find a way to win over the Virginia delegation. He
- 44:45Speaker 2: needed to reassure them that they could ratify the Constitution
- 44:50Speaker 2: without losing the armed patrol that was so essential to
- 44:53Speaker 2: keeping their slaves in line. So what did Madison do?
- 44:57Speaker 2: He wrote an amendment to the U.S. Constitution aimed squarely
- 45:01Speaker 2: at the doubters in Richmond who had spent 25 days
- 45:05Speaker 2: questioning his loyalty to his home state. One sentence said,
- 45:10Speaker 2: with a meaning his fellow Virginians could easily deduce.
- 45:15Speaker 4: The Second Amendment for him is simply about reassuring his
- 45:20Speaker 4: constituents and the South generally, but especially his constituents and
- 45:28Speaker 4: other political actors in Virginia, that the Constitution is not
- 45:37Speaker 4: handing over the northern states a tool to undermine the
- 45:43Speaker 4: slave system by emasculating our militia. And I think that's
- 45:50Speaker 4: all he was focused on.
- 45:56Speaker 2: This is not the way that gun rights activists have
- 45:59Speaker 2: interpreted the Second Amendment. They have ignored Madison's predicament in Richmond.
- 46:05Speaker 2: They have ignored the anxiety of the plantation class over
- 46:09Speaker 2: their ownership of other human beings. They have ignored the
- 46:13Speaker 2: grammatical norms of 18th century writing. The Supreme Court's final
- 46:17Speaker 2: opinion in the Heller case decided that Madison's problematic initial
- 46:21Speaker 2: being clause was merely prefatory, there only to, quote, resolve
- 46:28Speaker 2: an ambiguity in the operative clause, end quote. The opinion
- 46:33Speaker 2: went on with a shrug. But apart from that clarifying function,
- 46:39Speaker 2: a prefatory clause does not limit or expand the scope
- 46:43Speaker 2: of the operative clause, end quote. That is not an
- 46:48Speaker 2: honest reading of the evidence. But to be honest would
- 46:52Speaker 2: require acknowledging the Second Amendment for what it really is,
- 46:56Speaker 2: a grubby compromise intended to perpetuate the darkest chapter in
- 47:01Speaker 2: American history. A conversation becomes dishonest when either side avoids
- 47:08Speaker 2: the truth because it is too difficult.
- 47:11Speaker 4: If I say, close your eyes, and I say, the
- 47:16Speaker 4: Second Amendment, what image comes into your mind? I think
- 47:20Speaker 4: most people would say, it's the musket in the hands
- 47:22Speaker 4: of the Minutemen in Lexington and Concord. And I'm saying, no,
- 47:28Speaker 4: it's not. The real image that is the correct image is...
- 47:36Speaker 4: the musket in the hands of the slave patrollers.
- 47:39Speaker 6: In the South.
- 47:45Speaker 2: This was an excerpt from my upcoming book, The American
- 47:48Speaker 2: Way of Killing, The Invention of an Epidemic. You can
- 47:51Speaker 2: buy the print copy at whatever bookstores you frequent or
- 47:54Speaker 2: online services you use, and you can get the American
- 47:58Speaker 2: Way of Killing audiobook at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever
- 48:03Speaker 2: you get audiobooks. The audio version The cover design for
- 48:07Speaker 2: The American Way of Killing was done by Greg Kulik.
- 48:10Speaker 2: At Pushkin Audiobooks, the publisher is Nicole Optenbosch. The associate
- 48:14Speaker 2: publisher is as Jasmine Faustino, and the director of narrative
- 48:38Speaker 2: projects for Pushkin is Jacob Smith. The song Troubles that
- 48:42Speaker 2: you hear throughout the book was written by Drew Holcomb,
- 48:45Speaker 2: Hansi Music, BMI, administered by Downtown Music Publishing, and performed
- 48:50Speaker 2: by Drew Holcomb and the Neighbors, courtesy of Magnolia Music.
- 48:54Speaker 2: I'm Malcolm Gladwell.