Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of Mawdryn Undead (4/4)

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Talks to James Lark about his choice of Mawdryn Undead (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a grumpy. Pen knife are doing quicker
• 0:35
  quicker. Welcome back to a Hamster with a
• 0:41
  Blunt Pen Knife, where every 70 years the Beacon guides us to
• 0:46
  within podcasting distance of a planet and using the mental
• 0:50
  energy of Joe Ford, Fraser, Gregory SI Hart and other like
• 0:57
  minded podcasters. One of our company may leave the
• 1:01
  podcast to seek help taking on the appearance of a native of
• 1:06
  that planet. Beautiful.
• 1:12
  That was stunning, James. No wonder I'll get you to do so
• 1:15
  many readings for the Hamster Book Club.
• 1:18
  It never becomes a chore, does it?
• 1:20
  You give me the energy of a hamster and help me to die.
• 1:26
  Absolutely yes. How do I do that orally?
• 1:33
  Well, I beg your. Pardon.
• 1:36
  Sorry. Not involving a hamster anyway.
• 1:39
  Only Sylvester McCoy does that. Oh, no, it's Ferry.
• 1:41
  It's isn't it? Not hamsters.
• 1:44
  I think it's it's probably the first time we've made it all the
• 1:46
  way to Part 4 before you've gone into oral.
• 1:51
  There's been a few moments in this commentary, but now?
• 1:55
  Last episode you were touching yourself in the.
• 1:58
  Yeah. Oh, yes, that's right.
• 2:00
  Yeah. Well, yes.
• 2:01
  I mean, I'm just honest me. I I think everybody would.
• 2:05
  Everyone listens. Can you dirty old pervert.
• 2:08
  But actually, what they're thinking is actually in the
• 2:11
  right light. James, why are we here today?
• 2:16
  I can't even remember what. Something about immortality,
• 2:23
  suicide, time travelling, hijinks, the Queen's Jubilee.
• 2:28
  What? No, Yes, Yes, no, no.
• 2:32
  I, I remember we were talking about Peter Davison, Peter Davis
• 2:38
  and, and Colin Baker's face, Colin Baker's face and, and,
• 2:44
  and, and there was, there was something about Paddy, Paddy
• 2:46
  Kings and Paddy. Paddy, are you kidding?
• 2:49
  This is Colin Baker. We were watching Morden undead.
• 2:57
  No, we was. But, you know, you did a fine
• 2:59
  Tom Baker impression there, you know, when you were going.
• 3:02
  Yeah. You know, I think we were
• 3:03
  talking about Peter Davis, other Doctor Who's other Doctor Who's?
• 3:13
  No, no, we was a little critical about Episode 3, weren't we?
• 3:17
  That it was a bit too much. I think we felt that that James
• 3:20
  Lark was was right about his assertion.
• 3:23
  Yeah, what? Happens, and that maybe Paddy
• 3:26
  Kingsland not playing through our ears was part of the
• 3:30
  problem. I think so.
• 3:31
  In fact, I think we've sort of discovered on this call that
• 3:33
  James Lark is right about a lot of things.
• 3:37
  Right about so much I know. And it's usually so wrong,
• 3:40
  especially about books like Long Barrow.
• 3:42
  So it's quite a refreshing change of affairs.
• 3:46
  Well, I actually think the last five or 10 minutes of this
• 3:53
  episode are really, really strong, and it does an unusual
• 3:56
  thing of ending in a really optimistic way.
• 4:02
  Certainly as optimistic as you can get when when seven people
• 4:06
  are killed. Well, they were mutants and they
• 4:10
  wanted to die. Yeah, but, I mean, we don't
• 4:13
  really engage with the assisted suicide argument here, do we?
• 4:16
  I was a bit much. Yeah.
• 4:17
  Little. Bit little bit much.
• 4:19
  What? What on earth would have to say
• 4:21
  about that? It's a funny 1, isn't it?
• 4:26
  It's yeah, it's it's just sort of accepted that yeah, the, the
• 4:34
  the best thing is to euthanize them.
• 4:37
  We don't really go into the argument.
• 4:39
  And I suppose the alternative is that they'd live forever
• 4:43
  evolving into these grotesque creatures.
• 4:45
  But. I do like as well that in this
• 4:49
  episode they use Tegan and Nyssa as a bargaining tool.
• 4:53
  Yes, and it's the very first appearance of Lucy Beale on the
• 4:58
  television. Is it Lucy Beale?
• 5:00
  What's her character? What's her character's name from
• 5:02
  EastEnders I? Never watched EastEnders.
• 5:06
  We were. Were you a Corrie family then?
• 5:09
  No, no, Corrie ruined my childhood, remember?
• 5:12
  Oh, that's right. Yes.
• 5:14
  Yeah. Did you, did you not watch any?
• 5:16
  We were a neighbor. 'S family.
• 5:18
  Oh, well, of course she was. Yeah.
• 5:20
  Did you listen to The Archers? We had no choice.
• 5:24
  We would eat around 7:00 and and we were not allowed to talk.
• 5:28
  I mean, this is no criticism in any way, but you did strike me
• 5:32
  as a family that would listen to The Archers.
• 5:36
  I became increase as I became more kind of teenage and more
• 5:41
  interested in front row, which was the arts program after The
• 5:43
  Archers. And we'd have to sit and mute,
• 5:46
  silence and eat while the arts was on.
• 5:49
  And then my parents would talk over front row and I was.
• 5:51
  Do you mind if we're we're shutting up for your soap opera?
• 5:54
  Can we shut up while they're discussing opera?
• 5:56
  Thank you. The more we go into this, the
• 5:59
  more I've realised the trauma that you went through as a
• 6:02
  child, you know, being denied these riches, no.
• 6:05
  Neighbors was was my happy place.
• 6:09
  Before we heading to episode 4, I would just like to ask because
• 6:12
  you know, pleasingly our eight episode epic of the invasion.
• 6:17
  I mean it did absolutely brilliantly and a rarity for
• 6:22
  hamster blunt pen knife. Usually, you know, episode 1,
• 6:25
  bang, new guest, new story. It's like the ratings for an
• 6:29
  episode 1, you know, And then as you go along, you usually blew
• 6:32
  the now the invasion went the other way.
• 6:35
  It it started strong and then gained listeners as it went
• 6:38
  along. It was the saga.
• 6:40
  I've forgotten the name. What's the name?
• 6:47
  Did I give her you? Did you absolutely gave her a
• 6:50
  different name? Oh, did she?
• 6:52
  Yeah, no, I don't think I I used her real name just just in case.
• 6:56
  She's just in case she's a listener.
• 6:58
  Well, that that was that was the thing I was going to say because
• 7:01
  this did I call, I think I called her.
• 7:02
  Becky, didn't I? No, I don't think it was Becky.
• 7:05
  They're not Now we have to go back and listen to the episodes
• 7:09
  anyway, because the episode sort of spread like a virus.
• 7:12
  You know, the numbers were great.
• 7:13
  I'm thinking, my God, I wonder. She's heard them.
• 7:15
  I wanted to know, did she get in touch?
• 7:17
  Furious. I've not heard from anyone.
• 7:20
  No, no, no one. No one has been in touch to
• 7:22
  apologise for breaking my heart, no.
• 7:25
  I think more that they'd be furious that you, you know,
• 7:28
  mocks the love of add together. Oh man, that was.
• 7:33
  Mockery. I was taking that very
• 7:35
  seriously. Oh, sorry, I mean please can we
• 7:38
  not have some more diary extracts in a future commentary
• 7:41
  please we'll. Look and see what where we go
• 7:43
  next. Surely you had a diary extract
• 7:45
  for the TV movie? No, definitely.
• 7:48
  Oh, do you come out? Well, coming in, let's see how
• 7:53
  this is all going to result. We've got 2 brigadiers, we've
• 7:56
  got a load of mutants that want to kill themselves, we've got
• 7:58
  our disinterested Peter Davidson and Tegan that's going to behave
• 8:02
  like a human being. It's all to play.
• 8:03
  For Excellent and Turlo, probably not going to do very
• 8:07
  much. Hanging on the sidelines, but
• 8:09
  kind of pretty. And Nyssa?
• 8:11
  Well, she's there. She's also there.
• 8:14
  She burped. Not for much longer.
• 8:16
  Are you going to give us a count in?
• 8:18
  Oh yes, thank you very much. I suppose I'll just keep talking
• 8:21
  in 54321. Off we go, Episode 4.
• 8:28
  Now do you know what? I know it says a very bizarre
• 8:31
  thing about the ratings this season in that every other
• 8:37
  episode I know they went out twice a week, didn't they?
• 8:40
  At this point? Was it Monday and Tuesday?
• 8:42
  I I mean, I wasn't watching it at the time.
• 8:44
  I can't remember what days, but they were.
• 8:46
  It was 2 consecutive days, wasn't it?
• 8:48
  Yeah, and and the like the the Monday or the first day, the
• 8:53
  ratings were always 2 million ish more than the second day and
• 8:58
  then back the next week, the first day is always more than
• 9:01
  the second day. It goes from like 7 million to 5
• 9:03
  million, up and down, up and down new.
• 9:04
  Fans all had Cub Scouts on the second day or something.
• 9:08
  Except Resurrection of the Daleks, where they went up the
• 9:12
  Daleks. Yeah.
• 9:16
  Oh, here we go, Right. We're getting a replay of the
• 9:18
  cliffhanger. Is that why they concluded that
• 9:24
  the 15 minute episodes was better?
• 9:28
  What's your thinking? I just that it would be very BBC
• 9:34
  to to go well the the audience figures increase with this one.
• 9:38
  It must be because they were broadcast in longer episodes
• 9:42
  every time next year. Love the Daleks.
• 9:45
  Maybe, just maybe, it was the Daleks and 45 minutes of time
• 9:51
  Lash is not going to quite hit in the same way.
• 9:54
  Although interestingly I'm not because I know there was a spike
• 9:57
  for attack of the Sidemen. I think 22 has a better average
• 10:02
  than 20 and 21, right. Yeah.
• 10:05
  And and I think the ratings went up towards the end of the
• 10:08
  season. Time Lash and Wicked Enough Time
• 10:10
  Lash and Revelation of the Daleks.
• 10:15
  Hello, my plans are in Hazard. It is forbidden, but not
• 10:22
  impossible. He must have done some radio
• 10:26
  work with that voice. Did he do the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 10:28
  he's in hitchhikers, Yeah. How is it?
• 10:31
  No. Did you do The Archers though?
• 10:32
  Oh, I don't know about The Archers.
• 10:37
  He'd be a bit ostentatious in The Archers, wouldn't he?
• 10:41
  Bit bit too grand for The Archers I've got.
• 10:44
  I've got to go out and milk the cows.
• 10:46
  I shall come and help you milk the cows.
• 10:50
  And then we should make sure the chickens are all in their coop.
• 10:52
  Is that? What The Archers is like?
• 10:55
  I think it's less about that I'd do you know what I've I've
• 10:58
  basically blanked out a lot of the arches because of the trauma
• 11:02
  of having to listen to Sid and Jolene in the shower whilst
• 11:07
  eating dinner with my family. What were they doing in the
• 11:10
  shower? What, you may well ask?
• 11:12
  Nothing but any teenage boy wants to listen to with that.
• 11:15
  Oh. God, so embarrassing.
• 11:19
  Did I ever tell you the story about So I just heard I walking
• 11:22
  around a few corridors there, nothing much is happening.
• 11:25
  Did I ever tell you about the story where my mum when I came
• 11:28
  out and she bought me the safe sex video?
• 11:32
  Did I ever tell you about that? Oh, yeah.
• 11:34
  Oh, God. Say gay safe sex video.
• 11:37
  Yeah, She goes. We're gonna sit down.
• 11:38
  We're gonna watch this together and you're gonna know.
• 11:41
  Yeah, you're gonna. We're gonna watch this together
• 11:43
  and you're gonna know what you've gotta do anyway.
• 11:46
  I thought, please, Mum. No, that's all right.
• 11:48
  I don't know. There's so much, you know.
• 11:50
  I can do this on my own. No, She put it in the tape.
• 11:53
  VHS. It's starting.
• 11:54
  There were these two blokes on the couch and one bloke said to
• 11:59
  another, oh, I really fancy you, Gary.
• 12:03
  And my mum went turn it off. She went.
• 12:05
  What? She went.
• 12:07
  The acting is atrocious. Oh, you.
• 12:09
  By then you were. Like, no, I was just so pleased.
• 12:14
  Oh, James, She did everything. She put posters on my wall.
• 12:16
  She bought me condoms. I mean, it was a whole thing.
• 12:19
  It was a trauma of acceptance. You know, you never saw to the
• 12:23
  end of that video, then you never saw what happened to the.
• 12:26
  Oh, yeah, I watched it. Yeah.
• 12:27
  Good grief. Yeah, it wasn't bad, actually.
• 12:29
  You know, when it got going. Not the flirting on the sofa.
• 12:32
  I fancy you, Gary Bitz. Why do we end up talking about
• 12:37
  our shoulders on these things? I remember seeing a little bit
• 12:41
  of that. There was a drama that was, it
• 12:46
  raised questions in Parliament and it the, IT culminated in
• 12:54
  this thing which was aimed at, it was a, it was a sympathetic
• 12:58
  depiction of a homosexual relationship.
• 13:05
  And it had Kathy Burke in it famously in an early role.
• 13:10
  And they had to rewrite the ending because the original
• 13:14
  ending had the 2, the two boys going off together.
• 13:17
  And they, it was rewritten with a heterosexual ending in, in
• 13:22
  order to to get it. Wow.
• 13:24
  Broadcast is unthinkable now, isn't it?
• 13:27
  Yeah. But I certainly remember that
• 13:32
  cut that, that being on. I was probably off school sick
• 13:36
  one day, and that was on during the day and my mother leaping
• 13:40
  across the room. I think that's enough of that.
• 13:45
  It's kind of corrupt his mind. How did that work out for you?
• 13:49
  You didn't switch it off quick enough.
• 13:55
  Nothing to do with Doctor Who, of course.
• 13:56
  You know, the campus show in history.
• 14:01
  I mean, there is something very flamboyant about those sets and
• 14:04
  that and the costumes. I mean, look at this set.
• 14:06
  Turdos in now, fabulous golden fronds everywhere.
• 14:13
  So each just put the Brigadier in the cupboard to stop them
• 14:17
  from me. So they had, they sort of did
• 14:20
  find a bit for Turlo to do, didn't they?
• 14:24
  They did, but now Deacon and this, so I've just stuck in the
• 14:28
  TARDIS for the rest or for most of the rest of the story.
• 14:31
  You're right, there's too many companions, isn't there?
• 14:34
  And I think they did they ever figure out a way to have them
• 14:38
  all do something I. Don't think they ever do to
• 14:41
  really do that. I mean it's 3 is 3 is definitely
• 14:43
  too many. 60s did it fine because they were longer stories
• 14:47
  so you could have all those subplots.
• 14:49
  Yeah, also consider how how much less integral to stories the
• 15:00
  Doctor was in those days. A lot of a lot of those early
• 15:06
  stories it yeah is. But then I think in the better
• 15:11
  Chipnu episodes they could juggle 3 companions in the
• 15:15
  better episodes. In the better episodes they can.
• 15:18
  I still, I still remember kind of basically watching his first
• 15:23
  series, which has much to recommend it and admirable
• 15:29
  intentions, and thinking, yeah, you've gone with three
• 15:31
  companions and actually you basically don't quite know what
• 15:34
  to do with them all. What's baffling is it in that
• 15:37
  second series, where are you at? Still at the three companions.
• 15:39
  And then it would fill the stories with huge guest casts.
• 15:42
  And I was like, what are you doing, like 20 people in this
• 15:46
  episode? So this is the Doctor now he's
• 15:49
  saying, do you know what? Sometimes you got to live with
• 15:52
  the consequences of your actions.
• 15:54
  Strike me as a very doctorish sort of reaction.
• 15:57
  What? How many minutes are you in now?
• 15:59
  Oh God. Where are you?
• 16:01
  I'm 7 minutes and 39 seconds in. What are you at?
• 16:06
  4 minutes 32. This has definitely been going
• 16:09
  for 7 minutes, all right. I've been watching it in real
• 16:12
  time. What are you doing?
• 16:16
  I don't know what's going on then.
• 16:18
  Where are you? So look, where are you?
• 16:20
  I'll. I'll meet you this time.
• 16:22
  You're 7 minutes. No, I'm now 8 minutes and one
• 16:25
  second 234. The Tegan and Nyssa are very
• 16:30
  scabby and bruised. It's far.
• 16:34
  This makeup is actually quite good, isn't it?
• 16:38
  I'm not sure how well they're doing performance wise.
• 16:41
  And this is sort of just going, you know, oh, for God's sakes, I
• 16:49
  mean, lit there, that's under it, very mid 80s lines.
• 16:52
  The transfiguration will be calibrated.
• 16:55
  I mean, this has got proper kind of cracking around her lips and,
• 16:59
  and, and it looks kind of infected.
• 17:01
  That's that's not very nice, is it?
• 17:03
  No, and Tegan looks like her face is scarred, like someone
• 17:07
  slashed at it. But now, in a minute, where's
• 17:13
  the girl's name? Lucy Benjamin.
• 17:15
  That's it. Lucy Benjamin from EastEnders,
• 17:17
  who plays Nyssa. She was so excited to be in it,
• 17:22
  as she said, because she's off the documentary, because she
• 17:24
  went on to be like a big role in EastEnders.
• 17:26
  I think that's why they got her in.
• 17:27
  And then apparently when she was shown the Nyssa wig that she had
• 17:31
  to wear, she was. So they had to stop her from
• 17:35
  crying. I mean this is all padding.
• 17:40
  Yes. There's a little bit more going
• 17:43
  on than there was last episode, but.
• 17:49
  Did you see Moldrin and his cronies all looking on the
• 17:51
  scanner there? For a second.
• 17:54
  That was like a load of men waiting outside a cubicle for me
• 17:56
  to come out back in the day, you know?
• 17:58
  It's like the bit in the last episode of the War Games where
• 18:01
  he tries flying the TARDIS to different places so as not to be
• 18:04
  caught by the Time Lords. Just like, OK, but you're,
• 18:08
  you're just delaying the inevitable here.
• 18:10
  Or a bit like the end of the Celestial Toy Maker, when
• 18:12
  they're trying to get away and they're in and out the TARDIS
• 18:14
  all the time and it's like, OK, just pull your magic trick and
• 18:17
  let's get out of here. I mean that.
• 18:19
  All of the Celestial Toy Maker isn't.
• 18:20
  It yes. Well, I don't want the new
• 18:23
  animation though. It's the most entertaining way
• 18:27
  of watching it and I still think it drags a bit.
• 18:30
  Yeah, I mean, at least there's something for me eyes to do, you
• 18:34
  know? Yeah, yeah, OK.
• 18:37
  What's happening now? So he's taking, oh, he's going
• 18:40
  back through time the other way now, isn't he?
• 18:42
  That's. Totally.
• 18:43
  Like that's where the guest comes in for the chat show That
• 18:46
  staircase. Without the stairs.
• 18:48
  It's the Brigadier. It's very sort of surprise,
• 18:52
  surprise, isn't it, you know? I think that's one of the
• 18:55
  reasons why, particularly in the context of the trilogy, Terminus
• 19:00
  really works for me because those sets are great and it's
• 19:03
  just tonally so different from the the two stories around it.
• 19:09
  Yes, but you think that's a positive?
• 19:12
  I don't think it's a positive because I think when you've had
• 19:14
  this story and it's very safe and clean and and looks a bit
• 19:18
  like a chat show, it's, it's nice to have something as as
• 19:22
  bleak and dark as Terminus. I just think it looks so cheap
• 19:26
  at times. Sometimes there's just like
• 19:27
  plastic sheeting up and things like that where they just
• 19:30
  haven't had time to build a bloody say, you know, a bit of
• 19:32
  scaffolding. Then you get enlightenment and
• 19:36
  oh, the sets are now beautiful. Oh, here we go.
• 19:39
  Here's the two Muppets. Oh, hello.
• 19:44
  Tell me you're seeing the kids now.
• 19:46
  I'm seeing the kids. I'm just would did she did she
• 19:51
  have that haircut when she was a child?
• 19:53
  Yeah, it's funny that their costumes have have have grown
• 19:56
  younger with them. She only had two words to
• 19:59
  deliver that girl right, and it was the same word twice.
• 20:03
  Hang on, what? So the subtitles just went warp
• 20:07
  warp, no metallic. Metallic thumbing is out.
• 20:14
  Warp. Warp is in.
• 20:15
  So this is the moment, is it I guess like different different
• 20:20
  subtitler? Yeah, our fans taking over for
• 20:24
  episode 4. There we go.
• 20:26
  I imagine you did you see Nicholas Courtney there at the
• 20:29
  Duke? The Yeah, I imagine you, you
• 20:32
  spent a bit of time actually at pubs, you know, at the the
• 20:36
  gambling machines, what they called.
• 20:39
  The yeah, the fruit machines. Fruit machines.
• 20:42
  That's it. Yeah, OK, Still wandering around
• 20:46
  corridors. Don't worry, Mark.
• 20:48
  You're going to get used to this in your tenure.
• 20:52
  Oh, I see. This is where he left the
• 20:54
  Brigadier. He's like, well, where the
• 20:56
  Hell's he gone? Did you hear what the Maldrin
• 20:59
  called the Brigadier? He went.
• 21:03
  Oh, I didn't hear. What?
• 21:04
  He goes. Oh my God, you're a deviant, he
• 21:07
  said. Yeah.
• 21:09
  Maldrin called him that. Yeah, what a temporal deviant.
• 21:13
  Because there's two of him. Yeah, I've been given the same
• 21:19
  description. They just took the temporal out.
• 21:27
  Embassy. So near the annihilation of the
• 21:31
  Doctor. No, he hasn't managed it at all.
• 21:34
  He's done a very, very bad job. I mean, if if killing the doctor
• 21:39
  yeah meant he was going to get whisked away straight away, why
• 21:42
  at any point doesn't he just stop him?
• 21:45
  If you fail me again. I shall destroy you.
• 21:50
  But he never does. That's the other thing is it
• 21:52
  there's an awful lot of the, the the Black Guardian saying, well,
• 21:55
  you've you're going to die now. I'm not doing that.
• 21:57
  Like he's as bad at killing Turlo.
• 22:00
  Turlo, is it killing the doctor? Although I do love it when he
• 22:04
  entices Turlo to commit suicide off of that ship in
• 22:07
  Enlightenment. Well, that, yeah.
• 22:09
  So that's that's why it it kind of works for this brief trilogy,
• 22:14
  but. James, you will live upon this
• 22:18
  ship in perpetual torment. Yeah.
• 22:24
  How did they infect them? Not deliberately, but I mean
• 22:33
  like so many infections. I do hope you're not talking
• 22:39
  from experience. Did I tell you about the time I
• 22:41
  got scabies? Oh no, I won't go into that
• 22:44
  story now. I thought you were going to tell
• 22:47
  me about the time that you you you reduced to a younger version
• 22:50
  of yourself, didn't move forward or back.
• 22:52
  To the time I watch Doctor or do one of these commentaries, I'm
• 22:57
  suddenly 30 years younger. I mean, now look at Davison.
• 23:01
  This is so frustrating. He's sort of accepting the
• 23:05
  inevitable, but he looks like he's holding in a far, like it's
• 23:08
  there's just no gravity to his performance, is there?
• 23:12
  I think I, yeah, I, I think we're looking at a, a slightly
• 23:15
  underpowered script though, aren't we?
• 23:18
  There's just a a dramatic situation and.
• 23:22
  But you know what Colin would say?
• 23:24
  It is a far, far better thing that I do that I have ever done.
• 23:29
  You can just hear it. I just think Colin is more
• 23:33
  entertaining to watch than Peter.
• 23:36
  That may be controversial. People may be turning off.
• 23:39
  I know a lot of Pierre Davidson fans.
• 23:43
  He's not selling the idea that he's got.
• 23:45
  He's essentially giving up his life.
• 23:49
  Yeah. Which is a potent thing.
• 23:51
  You know that's a highly dramatic idea.
• 23:55
  Hang on though, I've just figured out a logical flaw in
• 23:59
  all of this. Oh no.
• 24:00
  Well, if the Oh no, the Doctor doesn't know, though, does he?
• 24:03
  At this point, the Doctor thinks that the deadly assassin rules
• 24:07
  are law and that you only have 13 lives.
• 24:11
  He doesn't realize, of course, that he's already lived out way
• 24:14
  more than 13 lives. Oh yeah, I know that the what
• 24:20
  does what does the Timeless Children mythology do?
• 24:23
  Like would he? Would he have died?
• 24:25
  No, I mean they would have just kept sucking lives out of him
• 24:29
  until the end of time. Well, no, because he only needs
• 24:33
  8. Oh, OK, yeah, but he would have
• 24:37
  just kept going after that, wouldn't?
• 24:38
  He that's the reason that there's eight of them, isn't it?
• 24:40
  It's, it's a precise calculation.
• 24:42
  He gives up 8 lives, which is all he's got left.
• 24:45
  So who's the 14th Doctor? Who would we have got next?
• 24:48
  David Tennant. No, I think he gets to stay as
• 24:52
  Peter Davidson, doesn't he? Oh, I don't really know the
• 24:55
  insurance. And now it's all made-up,
• 24:56
  really. What?
• 24:59
  Well I'm just saying he's given up 8 lives so surely he would
• 25:01
  skip ahead. We'd lose Colin, we'd lose
• 25:04
  Sylvester, we'd lose Paul McGann.
• 25:07
  What, you think they're going to just he's going to keep
• 25:09
  regenerating while while they die?
• 25:11
  Oh. Yeah, cycle through them all.
• 25:14
  Oh lose Jodie. Future lives would lose Davis,
• 25:18
  Tennant, one Capaldi. Sad times.
• 25:22
  You look so confused. What does the War Doctor count?
• 25:26
  Does does he? Oh, the fugitive Dr. So doctor
• 25:31
  is pre partner surely? See, This is why you should
• 25:34
  never have rules. It's just getting too
• 25:36
  complicated. Get rid of Cushing as one of his
• 25:39
  lives. We love that movie.
• 25:44
  Yeah, but just like if it strategically.
• 25:48
  Oh boy, I don't think you can choose.
• 25:50
  Can you get rid of his Comic Relief doctors just as.
• 25:54
  AI wasn't very keen on 1/3. I don't think it works that way.
• 25:59
  I think I'm going to be. Then he can go.
• 26:01
  What's that? I'm going to be a woman?
• 26:03
  No, get rid of that one. This is.
• 26:09
  I do think this is a good moment though, where the two brigadiers
• 26:12
  meet. Oh, lovely.
• 26:13
  Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, and there's a, there's a
• 26:15
  like a build up of sound effects here as well, isn't there?
• 26:18
  Very well, it's good. This is.
• 26:19
  This is what we've been waiting for though.
• 26:21
  This is what all that padding has been delaying.
• 26:25
  Good grief, it's me. And look, the Brigadiers do
• 26:30
  exactly what I suggest. They touch each other.
• 26:34
  Not quite in the way that you insinuated.
• 26:37
  You don't know what was in their minds, all right?
• 26:39
  Just because the Bledovich limitation effect got in the
• 26:42
  way. Oh, that bloody tap.
• 26:47
  Do you think they were ever sold those Black Guardian
• 26:50
  communicators? The Black Guardian Tap I'm.
• 26:54
  Sure, you could buy one look. No, he doesn't even look
• 27:00
  relieved. He's like, oh, well, there you
• 27:02
  go. I've sorted that out, isn't it?
• 27:04
  But the bit I really like is where Tegan bends down and says
• 27:11
  kneels down and says you were going to risk you, you were
• 27:15
  going to sacrifice your life for us.
• 27:16
  Thank you very much. It's really lovely.
• 27:20
  She she's genuinely kind and. It's quite, but it's quite rare
• 27:24
  that a companion actually thanks the Doctor, isn't it?
• 27:29
  Yeah, they do get the odd moment I see glimmers of what could be
• 27:34
  a really that was. Perry's mistake.
• 27:35
  I'd have strangled her like I died for you, Jack.
• 27:39
  You've done nothing. Nothing but complain.
• 27:44
  You just admitted to wanted to commit domestic violence on.
• 27:48
  Perry in a in a in a right. I know what you mean.
• 27:54
  For the AI police that are now clocking this and writing on
• 27:58
  Wikipedia, James Lark likes to strangle Perry.
• 28:00
  No, that that was a she's fictional.
• 28:02
  Though all right, just to clarify.
• 28:04
  That character, a humorous reference to a thing that
• 28:07
  happened. I've never once strangled Perry
• 28:10
  in real life. Only when she asks for it, you
• 28:15
  know. Not even then.
• 28:18
  You know, that's another another recurring thing in the 80s, that
• 28:22
  ZAP joke. They say it a lot.
• 28:25
  He went ZAP. Yes, exactly.
• 28:27
  ZAP. And in Castro Valgra, ZAP and
• 28:29
  you get your frost. Like I think that's supposed to
• 28:32
  be comedy. Oh, this is lovely.
• 28:37
  Can this be death? Oh, very melodramatic.
• 28:43
  Toss of the head. But it's not.
• 28:46
  That's quite nicely played, isn't it?
• 28:49
  So I mean, I did say it was very optimistic.
• 28:53
  We're surrounded by 7 corpses here.
• 28:55
  By corpses. And the Brigadiers off to suffer
• 28:59
  his nervous breakdown. Death was all they wanted.
• 29:03
  Maybe it's less uplifting than I thought.
• 29:08
  You're right though, that is a that is a beautiful moment.
• 29:11
  Well done, Janet. Yeah, and what do you know what?
• 29:14
  That's the sort of moment she gets all the time now in Big
• 29:17
  Finish. And the other thing she gets all
• 29:19
  the time is great jokes. She's just allowed to be,
• 29:21
  really. Funny if if the Doctor and Tegan
• 29:25
  and Nessa had been the same dynamic that they had in that
• 29:28
  car, it would have been Oh fuck. Get away from the console.
• 29:34
  Don't push that button you. Said backwards in time.
• 29:40
  It would be wonderful. Oh, I can hear the music again
• 29:44
  now. It's, it's what you played
• 29:48
  earlier, isn't it? You're they're young, bet you
• 29:52
  they're smart. Oh no, come on, keep going.
• 29:58
  Well, I'll do the whole musical if you like I.
• 30:00
  Can't believe that. Just dump his body there.
• 30:02
  Look, I know. I I think it's quite heart
• 30:05
  heartless and it's one, one of one of Paddy Kingston's not good
• 30:11
  moments because he's playing that jaunty upbeat moment and
• 30:14
  then the whole. Thing.
• 30:18
  Metallic thrumming right Earlier What?
• 30:22
  What's wrong with what's what? Can we ask the hamster audience
• 30:25
  please to sort this out for us now?
• 30:27
  Are you sort of more on the metallic thrumming end of the
• 30:31
  scale or the the warp for warp end of the scale?
• 30:35
  So the Brigadier just gave. I mean, it's a beautifully
• 30:38
  played moment. That smile is lovely and I feel
• 30:41
  better than I have for six years.
• 30:42
  But we did leave the other Brigadier about to, yeah, start
• 30:47
  of that six years. I find that a bit a bit
• 30:50
  downbeat. When they could have avoided it,
• 30:52
  right? They could have said, you know
• 30:53
  what, you haven't got to go through this.
• 30:57
  But I suppose, you know he's got his answers now, six years
• 31:00
  later. That would have that would be
• 31:02
  the Steven Moffett thing, wouldn't it?
• 31:03
  They'd have sat him down and gone, but explain what happened.
• 31:07
  You're just going to have to pretend that you had a breakdown
• 31:11
  6. Years.
• 31:12
  Yeah, Sorry. That's a lot of therapy.
• 31:16
  I mean, there was a wonderful moment there, right?
• 31:18
  The music's all sort of jolly. And then Turlo walks out the
• 31:21
  door looking as suspicious as he ever has, and the music goes
• 31:24
  really dark. What's that?
• 31:28
  Goodbye, Brigadier. Yeah.
• 31:31
  That was it. You chose this story, all right?
• 31:38
  Oh, the spaceship goes also. Not only are they dead now,
• 31:43
  they're cremated. Given how, how clear it is that
• 31:50
  they understand the importance of the Brigadier and you know,
• 31:55
  the, the, the, the depth of that relationship, isn't it weird how
• 32:00
  they throw away that moment at the end?
• 32:05
  What a goodbye. It's all like I'm, I'm all for a
• 32:08
  swift goodbye and a swift ending and I can't deal with, you know,
• 32:12
  the 15 goodbyes Martha gets to say in three, three episodes of
• 32:19
  three consecutive episodes. Clara had four separate goodbye
• 32:22
  episodes. Clara dies every episode, isn't
• 32:24
  she? So yeah, I feel like there's a
• 32:27
  happy medium, but but just to kind of run and run away from
• 32:30
  him like that, that just feels kind of like deep.
• 32:34
  You gave so much weight to them, to him remembering the doctor.
• 32:37
  Do you not want to at least let him say a proper farewell?
• 32:42
  I might have ended this with you.
• 32:43
  Come on, let's go and have a point.
• 32:46
  I mean nice like that you think? That's grim.
• 32:48
  Waiter is that Eric, say was really just He's focusing on
• 32:51
  Turlo and he wants that it to be not not not about the Brigadier,
• 32:54
  but about the next story. I think they are more plot
• 32:59
  oriented and character oriented and I think they're trying to
• 33:03
  join the dots of the plot so it all makes logical sense and fuck
• 33:07
  the characters, which is a shame.
• 33:10
  Yeah, you're right. There's there's something a bit
• 33:12
  more, a bit more moving you could have done there.
• 33:17
  Yeah, just give it. Just give it some like other
• 33:20
  eras of classic Doctor Who. Understand that.
• 33:25
  I mean, I think we had more of a sense of all those old friends
• 33:30
  that the 6th Doctor met for at his time, you know, as male
• 33:34
  Tonka Travers, Magellan, maybe not Magellan, that story of
• 33:39
  quite a few of them. It's.
• 33:44
  True. Well, James, and now you're
• 33:46
  looking a bit baffled. I'm just, I'm thinking even Tear
• 33:50
  of the Zygons, which is a story that can't wait to get rid of
• 33:53
  the Brigadier and move on to kind of fresher pastures.
• 33:57
  But they but you know, they give him a funny line and it's a,
• 34:00
  it's a proper goodbye. It's his line at the end of
• 34:03
  that. It's a it's a real blind spot in
• 34:05
  this era. It's it's obsessed with
• 34:07
  continuity and yet somehow doesn't doesn't always seem to
• 34:12
  have recognized the the the sort of weight of little moments like
• 34:15
  that. And yet when he comes back again
• 34:18
  in Battlefield, absolutely. If there's there's reverence to
• 34:23
  the character. I mean, they threatened to kill
• 34:26
  him off. And the.
• 34:28
  Coda is just sublime, isn't it? Lovely.
• 34:31
  Yeah, beautiful. Any good with a lawnmower,
• 34:34
  Anselin? I'm off out.
• 34:38
  What's out with the girls? That whole thing is just.
• 34:42
  I mean, you just wouldn't dream of a scene like that at this
• 34:45
  point, would you? No, you wouldn't.
• 34:48
  That's sad. That should be it.
• 34:50
  Was a shame. I, I feel like there's a,
• 34:55
  there's a, there's no one, no one believes who quite believes
• 35:04
  in the, in the, in the, in the characters and the, and the
• 35:07
  potential for just like normal, normal character moments, normal
• 35:11
  interactions. I mean, even, God, I'm going to
• 35:15
  make a really sort of niche jump now.
• 35:17
  But even at the end of something like, I think maybe maybe they
• 35:21
  get there like at the end of the tile up when they go off and
• 35:26
  there's that lovely scene between him and Mel at the end,
• 35:28
  you know. Oh, I think I was a bit harsh
• 35:30
  actually, to not take the presidency.
• 35:32
  Get in there. Come on.
• 35:33
  I'm going to get you some carrot juice, you know?
• 35:35
  And it's quite cute and funny. And they're not doing it here,
• 35:39
  though, are they? They're just, I think they think
• 35:42
  tension is better than war. There's something like that and
• 35:46
  and missus exit is is underplayed in a way that that
• 35:52
  does kind of work, but but it also feels like maybe that's a
• 35:57
  moment that's been thrown away as well.
• 35:59
  Yeah. What?
• 36:00
  The doctor's showing too much emotion.
• 36:02
  They they don't want him, you know.
• 36:03
  He shakes her hand. That's.
• 36:06
  But it does. It does mean that it's all right
• 36:09
  for the picking for Big Finish and they really do pick up the
• 36:13
  mantle and they, I mean stuff like in drastic terms, stuff
• 36:18
  like the Peterloo Massacre for this TARDIS team, you know, it's
• 36:23
  great. Listen to stuff like, I don't
• 36:25
  know, the Kingmaker is hilarious, you know, so, so it
• 36:30
  means with the yeah, you need a better script editor, don't you?
• 36:34
  That's that's the problem I think.
• 36:35
  That's it. I think that's yeah.
• 36:37
  And I'm, I'm, as you're aware, I'm, I'm writing a book that
• 36:41
  means I'm spent, I'm dwelling in Robert Holmes territory at the
• 36:45
  moment. And it has given me an
• 36:46
  appreciation of quite how hard he worked to bring those
• 36:51
  character moments to, to, to scripts that didn't have them.
• 36:57
  And how obviously you've got a great, a great pairing.
• 37:03
  And, and Elizabeth Saden is a very fine actor and you know, so
• 37:09
  is Ian Martyr, but the. Story you're doing they.
• 37:12
  Were they were given great lines, they would give.
• 37:15
  The start of Arc in Space is just amazing.
• 37:18
  You could sell that thing, Doctor.
• 37:20
  I could watch. Yeah.
• 37:20
  So funny. Well, so I once got my nose
• 37:26
  stuck in one in Ponty Barracks. You know, it's just hilarious,
• 37:30
  that stuff. Yeah.
• 37:32
  And you know what, though? I mean, I don't want to be so
• 37:35
  mean. Looking ahead, I think maybe
• 37:38
  they get there more than people give it credit for in Colin's
• 37:41
  time. Like I think, I know, I know it
• 37:44
  starts off in a really dodgy place, but I think as time goes
• 37:49
  on there are moments of warmth, there are jokes, there are coded
• 37:53
  to stories where they're arm in arm and they're being warm with
• 37:58
  each other. It's so odd.
• 37:59
  Though that as a as a style in Colin's first season, the the
• 38:04
  the attitude seems to be well, the way that we make this
• 38:06
  dramatic is to have them argue yes.
• 38:09
  Yeah, so maybe I'm talking about trial of a Time Lord that.
• 38:12
  I mean, I'm sorry James, but the opening of terror, the vervoise
• 38:16
  on the exercise bike is hilarious.
• 38:18
  And Colin, the second she's out the room, he stops doing it, and
• 38:22
  the second she comes back, he starts going again.
• 38:25
  Yeah, he's hilarious. I'm not sure it was wise, given
• 38:28
  that all the fans go well. If Bonnie Langford's in it,
• 38:30
  she's really annoying. It's like.
• 38:35
  It's heaven. Come on now, Wallet, we still
• 38:39
  have to do our three fabulous things to recommend more and,
• 38:42
  and I think we can, even though perhaps the second-half was more
• 38:46
  disappointing than the first half.
• 38:48
  Yeah, well, why don't you go fast?
• 38:50
  Well, I'm going to have that. It's a story that the first time
• 38:56
  ever in Doctor Who and for the last time in in you know, in
• 38:59
  some considerable years, that does 2 different time zones and
• 39:09
  a story unfolding simultaneously in them and the episode 2
• 39:14
  moments in particular where you're following two
• 39:17
  simultaneous paths, 5 years separated.
• 39:23
  My first one and it's the one thing, if you say more gender to
• 39:26
  me, it's the first thing that comes in my mind.
• 39:29
  It's what's the F1? I mean, the score is just
• 39:39
  mental. And I think, yeah, we really
• 39:42
  felt it's lost not hearing that this time round.
• 39:47
  I think maybe there is. Feeling, isn't it?
• 39:50
  Movement to the scenes and how they transition and all of it.
• 39:55
  There is a real fluidity to the music in the last two episodes.
• 39:58
  Yeah. So Paddy Kingsland.
• 40:00
  A lot of work, Paddy Kingsland handling that, having done all
• 40:04
  that work on Annie and then those years working with David
• 40:07
  Bowie very closely. Yeah, he brings all of that into
• 40:12
  play. Doesn't he?
• 40:12
  Slumming it a bit on this, wasn't he?
• 40:16
  What's your second? Well, my second was was Paddy
• 40:23
  Kingsland, so you've you've slightly Oh, I'm.
• 40:25
  So sorry about that. Sure.
• 40:27
  That idea, haven't you? I'm going to have Nicholas
• 40:30
  Courtney as my second because I think he turns in an absolutely
• 40:33
  beautiful performance and and he's easy to take for granted,
• 40:39
  particularly particularly kind of post battlefield where really
• 40:48
  he was, he was so obviously the elder statesman of Doctor Who
• 40:50
  and, you know, famously worked with all the doctors apart from
• 40:54
  Colin. And they tipped that box in
• 40:56
  dimensions in time. And he was the one they got to
• 40:58
  present the documentary that, you know, for the anniversary
• 41:00
  year. And it and it was so kind of
• 41:03
  inevitable when Big Finish started doing audios that
• 41:06
  they're going to do a proper Colin and the Brigadier story
• 41:09
  and then we're going to do a less good Brigadier and 8th
• 41:14
  Doctor story. But at the time this was made,
• 41:21
  how long had it been since Tara the Zygons?
• 41:24
  Oh, that's 75, isn't it 75? And this is 88 years 80.
• 41:33
  Years have passed, you know, most, most series don't last for
• 41:37
  eight years. It's a long time that's.
• 41:38
  Probably a lot of kids watching Tara.
• 41:40
  The Zygons have outgrown Doctor Who at this point.
• 41:42
  I mean, that's why I was wondering how many people would
• 41:44
  actually know who the Brigadier was.
• 41:47
  And so we shouldn't take for granted that he's there in that
• 41:51
  like even kind of then he comes back in the five Doctors and I
• 41:54
  think cements that kind of that place as as an icon of of Doctor
• 42:00
  Who. But I'm not sure that he
• 42:02
  necessarily kind of held that place when when taking this
• 42:06
  role. And he just does a really good
• 42:08
  job and and sort of holds the last couple of episodes.
• 42:12
  I am going to surprise myself and have my second one.
• 42:17
  Peter. Moffett who?
• 42:20
  I went in this ready to really slack him off.
• 42:24
  I mean, I watched The Five Doctors recently and that's got
• 42:27
  some really languid direction in it in places.
• 42:30
  I mean, I love it, of course I do.
• 42:33
  But yeah, However, watching it this time, yeah, the key moments
• 42:40
  in this story, I think he actually gets right all of those
• 42:46
  parts, all of those scenes in episode 2 where he's cross
• 42:50
  cutting from different time zones.
• 42:53
  There is a visual difference to those scenes and it tells the
• 42:56
  narrative really, really clearly.
• 42:58
  And that isn't just answer the right.
• 43:00
  And he has to get that right as well.
• 43:01
  The actors have to deliver it. He has to edit it, you know, in
• 43:06
  a comprehensible sort of way. I do think the moment where all
• 43:10
  the mutants sweep in at the end of Part 3 is a really great
• 43:14
  dramatic moment, the bit where the two brigadiers meet.
• 43:17
  But also as well there is an attempt at movement just with
• 43:21
  like the flow of Mordren's powers going through and things
• 43:26
  like that, where it could just look really dull, like Terminus
• 43:30
  where they're walking around those assets.
• 43:32
  There isn't that nice flow to it, and I think he shoots on
• 43:37
  location extremely well. He always shoots on location
• 43:40
  really well, I think. Peter Moffett.
• 43:42
  So yeah, surprisingly, Peter Moffett is my second choice.
• 43:47
  And for my third choice, I'm going to take just the the fact
• 43:53
  that this launches a trilogy. And I think that this era of
• 44:01
  Doctor Who was initially, I think John Nathan Turner was
• 44:06
  lauded for his continuity and for kind of stuffing things from
• 44:09
  the past back in and, and very successfully initially kind of
• 44:13
  bringing back the Master and bringing back the Cybermen.
• 44:16
  And it's, and it's a thing that has definite diminishing
• 44:20
  returns. And we see the problem with
• 44:23
  continually bringing the Time Lords back and we see some
• 44:25
  monsters brought back rather less successfully, and we see
• 44:28
  continuity packed in for the sake of it.
• 44:32
  But I do think that the idea of having connected stories is a
• 44:38
  really strong one. And we saw it in season 18 and
• 44:41
  we saw it again between season 18 and season 19.
• 44:44
  And I think that this, these three, whatever your views on
• 44:49
  Terminus, and I think it's, I think it's part of the reason
• 44:51
  that the trilogy works. I think Mordrin Determinous and
• 44:55
  then culminating in Enlightenment, which is just
• 44:57
  gorgeous, really work as a trilogy of stories.
• 45:00
  And I think the setup in this is is rather good, even though it's
• 45:04
  basically nonsensical thanks to Stricks.
• 45:08
  And in particular, I think they sell the idea.
• 45:11
  And I think you've got a really interesting first part of a
• 45:15
  trilogy here. I actually, what, at some point
• 45:18
  in the future, I might want to twist your arm to do Terminus.
• 45:22
  You know, I think there's a conversation to have there.
• 45:25
  I think you can probably turn me around on it, you know, because
• 45:29
  I will admit, I used to hate it and now I, I quite like it.
• 45:34
  I certainly don't love it. But every time I've watched it,
• 45:37
  I've taken more from it. I think if somebody gave it a
• 45:40
  really great reading, then finally I could, you know,
• 45:44
  embrace my inner Terminus. Well, my third thing then is
• 45:50
  going to be, well, I was sort of caught really.
• 45:52
  I was thinking a little bit about the tight shorts in the
• 45:54
  first shot from What is it going to?
• 45:58
  Be one of your 3. Things well it was quite
• 46:00
  memorable opening if I'm honest. You know Peter Moffett and JNT
• 46:03
  both going it get the camera angle right.
• 46:05
  Yep. Then I was thinking, well,
• 46:07
  Valentine dolls jacket, of course, with the fluffy sleeves
• 46:12
  and the huge leopard print collar.
• 46:15
  But I thought though, come on out.
• 46:16
  Don't be silly. Mark Strickson should get a
• 46:20
  mention in this wrap up. Or or rather just the character
• 46:26
  of Turlo, which I think a lot of people think is misconceived.
• 46:28
  Peter Davison certainly thinks he was misconceived.
• 46:31
  Their own interview goes by where you don't slack and go,
• 46:33
  what are you going to do with that?
• 46:35
  Somebody's going to kill the doctor.
• 46:36
  Yeah, but Peter Davison, you're a boring adult.
• 46:38
  You're not a child sitting there watching this going.
• 46:40
  Oh my God, there's somebody in the TARDIS that wants to kill
• 46:44
  the Doctor. That's a really exciting idea,
• 46:47
  and I think they do just enough with it.
• 46:50
  But I don't think he ever quite loses his sinister appeal to
• 46:56
  like. Perhaps that he's there's some
• 46:57
  in this artist who isn't entirely trustworthy, and that
• 47:00
  Teague that friction Tegan never trusts him.
• 47:04
  There's a wonderful bit. I mean, do you remember the end
• 47:07
  of Oh no, she's talking to a chameleon in that one.
• 47:09
  Like this is how she welcomes people in the tarts, remember.
• 47:12
  And she goes, well, you can add my room for all our care.
• 47:16
  Thanks. Welcome to the tarts.
• 47:17
  But like you remember in front of us when he doesn't want to go
• 47:22
  down underground because of that race memory that's coming up and
• 47:25
  he says stuff like, you know, I'll tell her the cow and no one
• 47:27
  expects anything of me. There's interesting things to do
• 47:31
  with that character. I think they kind of get there
• 47:34
  in Planet of Fire. You get some interesting stuff
• 47:36
  to do there. His brother turns out to be
• 47:38
  extremely wet, but also squeezes into a pair of shorts very
• 47:43
  deliciously, so I don't complain too much.
• 47:46
  No, it's tough for you. It's a race memory of Turlo and
• 47:49
  tight shorts, which Fired absolutely delivers.
• 47:55
  If it only had the Black Guardians coat in it as well, it
• 47:58
  would be a complete win. No, no.
• 48:01
  Yeah, so. Now imagining Mark Strickson in
• 48:04
  his trunks, but with that coat over the top.
• 48:07
  Do you know what's weird is we've loaded Big Finish in this
• 48:14
  and what they've done? I actually think Mark Strickson
• 48:18
  isn't very good on audio. I think he's a bit mannered,
• 48:24
  Yeah. Of all of the actors from
• 48:27
  Davidson's time, he's the one, I think even I know Matthew
• 48:30
  Waterhouse does that strange voice, but he, I think he but he
• 48:36
  has improved as an actor, I think, whereas Strickson, I
• 48:40
  don't think he's as strong as he is in the TV series, isn't it?
• 48:44
  Yeah, but I think audio acting suits some people, not others.
• 48:50
  You know, you sort of have to accentuate in a naturalistic
• 48:53
  way. I don't think Strips has got it.
• 48:55
  And Ding, Ding, Ding, I don't think Sophie Aldridge got it.
• 48:59
  I. And if you had your Sophie
• 49:04
  Aldridge bingo cards out, rescued at the last hurdle?
• 49:09
  And As for Sylvester McCoy, have you heard on Regenerate?
• 49:12
  What is going on in that anyway? Mark Strickson, Stroke Turlo,
• 49:19
  That is my third choice. I think it was a sound move with
• 49:22
  the character, but I think they've got a great actor as
• 49:24
  well. He's I think he's great.
• 49:26
  And that's not always a given with the companions in the 80s.
• 49:33
  Well, James, now look, I said I was going to give you a choice
• 49:36
  at the end of the episode. And is it a choice?
• 49:38
  Do I get to choose? Yes, that's right.
• 49:40
  Well, we've got a list, haven't we?
• 49:41
  We've got a long, long. A list of like, well, you know,
• 49:44
  you can shorten it if you want, but I thought you'd like doing
• 49:46
  this sort of thing. Well, I was thinking maybe the
• 49:50
  choice could be between because we said we would do a bit of
• 49:53
  Moffy era time, didn't we? We said we might.
• 49:55
  Do you wanted to do Ghastly 2 parter Magician's Apprentice and
• 50:01
  which is familiar? You wanted to do a ghastly 2
• 50:05
  parter, which is a dark water of death in heaven.
• 50:07
  Yeah, that's right. That's a sort of double bill,
• 50:09
  you know? Gastly 2 parter.
• 50:11
  Yeah, properly, you know, get the oils out and have a proper
• 50:14
  fight or the other thing we sort of talked about in messages
• 50:19
  today was the TV movie. I mean, so choices, choices.
• 50:25
  Do we go for the TV movie, Which I hated at the time, by the way.
• 50:29
  I loved it at the time and I love it.
• 50:32
  An interesting chat because I've got my Diaries and.
• 50:37
  That would be, but I mean, have you softened on it over time?
• 50:40
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 50:41
  Good. Not sure it's very good, but but
• 50:46
  no, let's do the TV movie next. Let's let's go back to 1996 and
• 50:52
  like it's 1999. A large detail to you because we
• 50:56
  always like to bring our personal life.
• 50:57
  If you bring the Diaries, yeah, I will bring the two occasions.
• 51:02
  I've got Daphne Ashbrook to do cameos for me and how both of
• 51:07
  those occasions have changed my life.
• 51:10
  Amazing, and perhaps afterwards we can sit down and watch that
• 51:14
  gay sex education video I. Really love you, Gary.