Latest / The You Project / #1930 New Research: Older Dads & Their Older Sperm | David Gillespie

Transcript

#1930 New Research: Older Dads & Their Older Sperm | David Gillespie · The You Project

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Speaker 1: Get our team. It's the year Project Tiffany and Cook
0:03
Speaker 1: and David Bryan, Kevin Patrick Gillespia. Here, the hostess with
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Speaker 1: the mostess is up in the top left corner with
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Speaker 1: no TYP representation at all behind her, as is her way,
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Speaker 1: despite the fact that she's currently working on TYP and
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Speaker 1: being paid by TYP.
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Speaker 2: Hi, Tiff, he still got.
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Speaker 3: My bloody Cameron Gillisbow doesn't even shear.
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Speaker 1: His first Gillesbow could be sitting in a brothel in
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Speaker 1: some kind of remote dungeon anywhere, couldn't he. You don't
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Speaker 1: know with him.
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Speaker 2: Gillispoe's and Ai. You know that, don't you?
0:38
Speaker 1: Exactly? All we get is a black box with a
0:41
Speaker 1: name on it. We don't even know if you fucking exist,
0:44
Speaker 1: That's right, I mean, I know there was a man
0:49
Speaker 1: called David Gillespie who allegedly wrote some books and did
0:52
Speaker 1: a law degree and kind of invented a few things.
0:56
Speaker 1: But how do we know that you are?
0:59
Speaker 2: He yes, this is a good point. Perhaps you'll have
1:02
Speaker 2: to pay to see me.
1:04
Speaker 1: Well, No, we were talking. I don't know why anyone
1:08
Speaker 1: that's here this they probably don't. But I was just
1:10
Speaker 1: saying to tiff my neck and shoulders are fucked and
1:14
Speaker 1: I want to go get a massage, but it's too
1:16
Speaker 1: it's freezing in Melbourne and you've got to walk out.
1:19
Speaker 1: And I live on a main street where there are
1:22
Speaker 1: literally five different places where you can What are you
1:24
Speaker 1: shaking your head at?
1:25
Speaker 3: Just because I know how close there is a million
1:28
Speaker 3: massage places to your place, and I'm like it exactly.
1:31
Speaker 1: I mean when I say close, I mean literally within
1:34
Speaker 1: fifty meters there's three, or one hundred meters there's three.
1:38
Speaker 1: But I don't like getting the massage, then having to
1:40
Speaker 1: get off the warm table, out of the warm room,
1:42
Speaker 1: and then walk home, and it kind of fucks up
1:44
Speaker 1: the whole. But Tiff and I accurately predicted that you
1:50
Speaker 1: would have never had a massage, and we questioned you
1:53
Speaker 1: and you said, no, I could think essentially, you said,
1:57
Speaker 1: I could think of nothing worse. Just unpack that with
2:00
Speaker 1: this a little bit.
2:02
Speaker 2: I just the whole idea just gives me the IX.
2:05
Speaker 2: You know, just someone just rubbing you. It seems weird.
2:11
Speaker 1: As I said, you've just never had the right person
2:14
Speaker 1: rub you because a great and I'm not being sexual
2:17
Speaker 1: at all, I just mean, are you.
2:18
Speaker 2: Are you volunteering Craig, are you.
2:20
Speaker 1: Well, I'm coming to coinsland, so you just get your
2:23
Speaker 1: bath robe on.
2:24
Speaker 2: I'll just give me plenty of warnings so I've nowhere
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Speaker 2: near you.
2:29
Speaker 1: Fucking don't worry. If I get a hold of you,
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Speaker 1: I'll be rubbing the shit out of you. It could
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Speaker 1: be transformative you. I'll just start on your neck and
2:35
Speaker 1: you'll be like one of those cats that gets picked
2:38
Speaker 1: up by its mother. You'll be just like putty in
2:40
Speaker 1: my hands. Yeah, I feel like this is probably enough
2:45
Speaker 1: of this kind of sa Yeah. I think we've just
2:49
Speaker 1: backed him into a verbal could sack. He's like, fuck,
2:51
Speaker 1: I'm very uncomfortable right now. Can we talk about something else?
2:54
Speaker 3: This is my favorite Goleste episode.
2:57
Speaker 1: I know it's the first time he's ever been stuck
3:00
Speaker 1: for words. Hey, so you sent me an interesting article today,
3:03
Speaker 1: which kind of I guess. In the far far back
3:09
Speaker 1: kind of the back back paddock of my mind, I've thought,
3:13
Speaker 1: if I ever want to have a kid, it's okay
3:16
Speaker 1: because my sixty one year old sperm would be very
3:19
Speaker 1: robust because I'm so fucking healthy and allegedly but old dudes,
3:25
Speaker 1: it doesn't really make much difference, I thought, as did
3:29
Speaker 1: most of the world until well, I don't know what.
3:34
Speaker 1: Maybe you knew better, but a recent article tells us
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Speaker 1: that my old sperm might be somewhat limited in their
3:41
Speaker 1: capacity to produce healthy TIF. What do you make in
3:44
Speaker 1: a face for I.
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Speaker 3: Don't know, just the visuals that operated in my mind.
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Speaker 2: People have imagining your old sperm, men.
3:53
Speaker 3: Have sperms, thinking cartoons in your voice evokes it, and
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Speaker 3: there's all sorts of shit.
4:00
Speaker 1: That's okay, all men have. All men have sperm. They
4:03
Speaker 1: just get a little bit as Dave's about to tell us,
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Speaker 1: like less robust as they age. What's so, what is
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Speaker 1: this research in Europe? Found David.
4:13
Speaker 2: So, the thinking has always been pretty much like what
4:16
Speaker 2: you said, which is because men can pretty much produce
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Speaker 2: sperm until the end of their lives. There's no limitations
4:23
Speaker 2: like women who will run out of eggs at menopause.
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Speaker 2: They've thought, oh, well that doesn't matter. Now that's why
4:33
Speaker 2: you know, you can have an eighty year old man
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Speaker 2: and you can still father children with a woman as
4:37
Speaker 2: long as she's still capable of producing eggs. So there
4:43
Speaker 2: was some really early research that suggested age was not
4:49
Speaker 2: a good thing for sperm health. Now not meaning that
4:53
Speaker 2: you couldn't produce sperm age didn't affect that at all,
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Speaker 2: It was just how useful they were so very early on.
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Speaker 2: There was some research that suggested, look, maybe there's a
5:07
Speaker 2: similar thing to menopause for men, where the sperm become
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Speaker 2: less and less useful sort of after the age of
5:13
Speaker 2: forty five. And for a very long time, the standard
5:18
Speaker 2: medical advice was even for men, is try and have
5:22
Speaker 2: your kids before you turn forty five, because you're going
5:25
Speaker 2: to have a lot harder time doing it afterwards. And
5:28
Speaker 2: then there was also some studies that suggested it wasn't
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Speaker 2: just about having kids. The rates of birth defects, particularly
5:37
Speaker 2: down syndrome was the one they were picking up in
5:39
Speaker 2: the studies, seemed to be much much higher in couples
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Speaker 2: where the male was over the age of forty five.
5:53
Speaker 2: But those studies didn't really go anywhere, and they've sort
5:57
Speaker 2: of been dismissed because the narrative really became dominated by
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Speaker 2: this idea that infertility was really a female problem, and
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Speaker 2: particularly age with infertility was always a female problem, because
6:11
Speaker 2: there was a really clear demarcation there. But the theory
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Speaker 2: behind that original science still stood and no one really
6:19
Speaker 2: debunked it, and the theory was pretty simple, which is
6:22
Speaker 2: that sperma one of the highest reproducing cells in the
6:26
Speaker 2: human body. They're cycling all the time, so there's a
6:29
Speaker 2: lot of them. They're being changed and reproduced and die
6:32
Speaker 2: all the time. And so whenever you have anything in
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Speaker 2: the human body where it's been continuously recreated, you introduce
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Speaker 2: the possibility of errors, particularly in significant volume, so that
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Speaker 2: you do something a million times, you have x percentage
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Speaker 2: of errors. You do something ten million times, then it's
6:52
Speaker 2: a lot more. If you do something a billion times,
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Speaker 2: it's a lot more. So you keep introducing the possibility
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Speaker 2: that you will introduce a rammeraror that could affect the
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Speaker 2: viability of the sperm. Something called motility which is how
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Speaker 2: it moves, something called morphology which is what it looks like,
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Speaker 2: and its ability to actually make it to an egg
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Speaker 2: and do anything. And this is usually expressed naturally in
7:16
Speaker 2: the miscarriage rate. So the more dysfunctional the sperm are,
7:21
Speaker 2: Nature takes care of this, and even if it allows
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Speaker 2: an impregnanty an impregnation to occur, then it might not
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Speaker 2: produce a viable live birth because we still have control
7:34
Speaker 2: systems in place to stop this. Kind of thing happening.
7:38
Speaker 2: So it was, and the theory there was fine, was
7:42
Speaker 2: perfectly fine. It's just everyone kind of ignored it because
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Speaker 2: it didn't fit with the overall narrative that this is
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Speaker 2: really a women's problem. This study that's just come out
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Speaker 2: is the first really detailed study of this issue, really
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Speaker 2: really comprehensive, detailed study where they've looked at the age
8:04
Speaker 2: of the male in IVF circumstances. Now, this is the
8:09
Speaker 2: reason this is important that it's in IVF, is you
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Speaker 2: can be really accurate in IVF. You know exactly how
8:14
Speaker 2: old the male is, you know exactly how old the
8:17
Speaker 2: female was when she donated the eggs, you know exactly
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Speaker 2: You've got all those very very precise measurements. And so
8:25
Speaker 2: they were able to do some fairly comprehensive studies of this,
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Speaker 2: and they divided the groups up into forty five and
8:29
Speaker 2: older and under forty five for the males, and they
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Speaker 2: found some pretty significant things. Over forty five, the miscarriage
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Speaker 2: rate for males was twenty three point eight percent, so
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Speaker 2: basically a quarter of all pregnancies that were as a
8:48
Speaker 2: result of male sperm over the age of forty five. Well,
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Speaker 2: where the donor was over the age of forty five.
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Speaker 2: A quarter of them, we're not going to succeed, So
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Speaker 2: straight up miscarage, which is nature's way of saying, this
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Speaker 2: is not likely to be a viable baby. We're sorting
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Speaker 2: this out.
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Speaker 1: That's very that's I mean, that's very high, isn't it.
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Speaker 1: I mean, in four one in four is a miscarriage
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Speaker 1: because the dad's or the sperm donor so to speak,
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Speaker 1: is over forty five.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, incredible and under forty five. Now they didn't
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Speaker 2: really get into how much under forty five. This could
9:28
Speaker 2: have been forty four, but in the arbitrary line, they
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Speaker 2: drew in the sand under forty five or sixteen percent,
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Speaker 2: which is what about one in eight, so you know,
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Speaker 2: about half as many we're having problems under the age
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Speaker 2: of forty five. So this is a very significant thing.
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Speaker 1: I was just thinking exactly you like, well, I read
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Speaker 1: the thing and it said men of forty five twenty
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Speaker 1: four percent miscarriages compared to sixteen percent in younger men, which,
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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, they didn't really define. I'm thinking, well,
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Speaker 1: I wonder if we had a look at men under thirty,
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Speaker 1: you know, because younger than forty because it's over forty
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Speaker 1: five the group. So the other group includes forty five
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Speaker 1: and younger. So I would think that fifteen years between
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Speaker 1: thirty and forty five would also be a much higher
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Speaker 1: rate than twenty and thirty for example.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I suspect it right, And the study authors came
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Speaker 2: to the same conclusion and have said, you know, please
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Speaker 2: play us to do another study where we actually break
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Speaker 2: this down in a lot more detail, not just for
10:32
Speaker 2: the younger group, but the older group too. What's the
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Speaker 2: difference in rate for a fifty year old, what's the
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Speaker 2: difference for a fifty five year old, so that we
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Speaker 2: can get some really good data on this. But just
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Speaker 2: the data they've got is significant enough. It shows that
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Speaker 2: age really starts to be a problem. And the reason
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Speaker 2: for that is simply that that continuous reproduction of sperm
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Speaker 2: cells over time introduces an enough mutations enough what I
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Speaker 2: called double strand breaks in the DNA, which is things
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Speaker 2: that make the sperm appear viable but not actually viable. Also, interestingly,
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Speaker 2: they hinted in the study that they were seeing evidence,
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Speaker 2: although they don't give numbers on this evidence, that birth
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Speaker 2: defects were also much much higher in the in the
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Speaker 2: older cohort, which matches up with the older research I
11:27
Speaker 2: was talking about where and in particular they're looking at
11:30
Speaker 2: bound syndrome. But and that makes sense, is that you
11:34
Speaker 2: might get through all the gatekeepers. The sperm might be
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Speaker 2: good enough to get to you know, to to form
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Speaker 2: an embryo, and it might be good enough to survive
11:44
Speaker 2: the natural processes that would produce a miscarriage, but still
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Speaker 2: not be able to produce you know, a neurologically normal child,
11:53
Speaker 2: if you want to say it that way. So it's
11:59
Speaker 2: it just those to the logic of that. And I've
12:02
Speaker 2: written about this before in relation to seed oils and
12:06
Speaker 2: will come back to this. But the statistics on childhood leukemia,
12:10
Speaker 2: and I think we've mentioned this before, are really mind buying.
12:13
Speaker 2: So childhood leukemia is blood cancer in a person who's
12:17
Speaker 2: under the age of fourteen years, and the rates of
12:21
Speaker 2: that have increased sixfold in the last six decades. So
12:28
Speaker 2: that isn't something that's just you can't say, oh, that's
12:31
Speaker 2: the aging population, which is the thing they throw out
12:33
Speaker 2: whenever you talk about increasing cancer rates for anything else,
12:36
Speaker 2: because the definition here is that the person who's under
12:39
Speaker 2: the age of fourteen. You can't say, oh, this was
12:42
Speaker 2: their stupid lifestyle. You know, they were eating themselves to
12:45
Speaker 2: death and that's what caused this. Well, you know that's
12:48
Speaker 2: not happening in an under fourteen year old. You know,
12:50
Speaker 2: this is something that they're born with, or which they
12:56
Speaker 2: at least have the setup for when they're born. And
13:00
Speaker 2: for that to increase sixfold in that period of time
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Speaker 2: suggests there's something really really odd going on into generationally,
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Speaker 2: and this might give us a bit of a clue
13:10
Speaker 2: as to what it might be. So they've always known
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Speaker 2: the rates of things like childhood cancer and down syndrome
13:17
Speaker 2: are higher the older the father is. They've never made
13:21
Speaker 2: much of a fuss about it because the last thing
13:23
Speaker 2: in the world they want to do, and the last
13:25
Speaker 2: thing we should be doing, by the way, is make
13:27
Speaker 2: older fathers feel guilty for anything. We're just talking about
13:34
Speaker 2: bio biology here and chemistry and thinking about what impacts
13:40
Speaker 2: this might mean for people who are thinking about this
13:43
Speaker 2: in the future.
13:44
Speaker 1: But the.
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Speaker 2: Reason for that is that as you reproduce things, you
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Speaker 2: introduce errors, these double strand breaks and so on. But
13:54
Speaker 2: there are other ways to do this, and we've talked
13:56
Speaker 2: about this before. You can smoke and that's been one
13:58
Speaker 2: that's being known for a very long time. It introduces
14:02
Speaker 2: aldehydes into the bloodstream, which have exactly the same effect.
14:06
Speaker 2: So it has been reasonably well known medical law for
14:11
Speaker 2: at least the last few decades that expectant fathers should
14:15
Speaker 2: preferably be younger and preferably not smoking. And I want
14:21
Speaker 2: to add to that list, and not eating seed oils,
14:24
Speaker 2: because seed oils produce exactly the same things. In fact,
14:30
Speaker 2: a slightly well a significantly worse aldehyde than smoking and
14:33
Speaker 2: a significantly worse aldehyde than alcohol consumption into the bloodstream.
14:39
Speaker 2: And everything we eat today is full of seed oils.
14:42
Speaker 2: So that's something to take into account, as well as
14:47
Speaker 2: paternal age. So what's the upshot of all of this.
14:49
Speaker 2: If you're wanting to have a baby, be as young
14:52
Speaker 2: as you humanly can, you know, and don't smoke, don't drink,
14:58
Speaker 2: and don't eat seed oils.
15:01
Speaker 1: What yeah? Yeah? And also I mean if you are
15:06
Speaker 1: older and you do want to get pregnant, I mean
15:10
Speaker 1: you can wind back the biological clock a little bit.
15:12
Speaker 1: You can't wind back the chronological clock, but at the
15:15
Speaker 1: very least, if you're not in great shape, spend six
15:19
Speaker 1: or twelve months trying to get healthier, much much healthier,
15:22
Speaker 1: and give yourself a better chance. I wonder why paternal
15:26
Speaker 1: age has been overlooked for so long as a research
15:31
Speaker 1: focus in reproductive medicine.
15:34
Speaker 2: It's it looks hard to say that other than the
15:36
Speaker 2: fact that when you read these studies you get a
15:38
Speaker 2: real flavor of having babies was a women's thing. So
15:45
Speaker 2: clearly problems with having babies was a women's thing too.
15:52
Speaker 2: Rather like when you said at the top of the show,
15:54
Speaker 2: you know, you know, I'm still you know, virile and
15:58
Speaker 2: producing sperm to Tim's discuss, that kind of dominated I
16:05
Speaker 2: guess the minds of the researchers who are doing this
16:08
Speaker 2: kind of work, which is, you know, there's no obvious
16:11
Speaker 2: menopause for men. It's you know, they're they're quite as
16:16
Speaker 2: capable often, you know, to their sixties or seventies as
16:19
Speaker 2: they are in their twenties, and so you know, obviously
16:23
Speaker 2: any issues in childbirth were obviously something to do with
16:26
Speaker 2: the women, and that tended to be the way the
16:28
Speaker 2: research was focused. And increasingly, you know, particularly now that
16:33
Speaker 2: the percentage of infertility is starting to be clearly strongly
16:41
Speaker 2: favoring men, you know, as male reproductive capability is dropping,
16:45
Speaker 2: and it has dropped significantly in the last thirty years.
16:49
Speaker 2: We've talked before about the dropping sperm counts. Increasingly those
16:56
Speaker 2: kind of numbers have forced people to acknowledge, actually, this
16:59
Speaker 2: is likely to be not just partly a male problem,
17:02
Speaker 2: it could be dominantly a male problem.
17:05
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, is there I know I should know more
17:10
Speaker 1: about this stuff than I do, but I've never had
17:12
Speaker 1: a kid, so that's my excuse. Is there a way
17:17
Speaker 1: to test sperm viability other than the amount of sperm
17:21
Speaker 1: that someone produces?
17:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. Unfortunately, the particular things that I likely
17:26
Speaker 2: to cause these problems at the moment don't have reliable tests.
17:31
Speaker 2: So in particular a double strand break, which is an
17:35
Speaker 2: issue with the sperm's DNA, which is not able to
17:40
Speaker 2: be reliably tested. And we've talked about this before with
17:43
Speaker 2: the IVF methodologies which are used well dominant well that
17:49
Speaker 2: are used dominantly in Australia, which is the ICSI method,
17:53
Speaker 2: which is a sexual essentially selecting the winner, choosing manually
17:58
Speaker 2: choosing the best sperm and then directly injecting it. And
18:06
Speaker 2: the theory there is well, you'll eliminate all the obviously
18:10
Speaker 2: bad ones or you know, you'll eliminate the problem that
18:13
Speaker 2: you know, the sperm count isn't very high because you
18:16
Speaker 2: only need one. And the problem with that methodology is
18:21
Speaker 2: that it can't test for the issues that could produce
18:27
Speaker 2: a miscarriages or be birth defects. And so you have
18:34
Speaker 2: the same problem here with this study, which is knowing
18:38
Speaker 2: this is good, all well and good, but how do
18:40
Speaker 2: you prevent it? You know, how can you You can't
18:45
Speaker 2: make yourself younger. I mean, I can tell you to
18:46
Speaker 2: stop eating seed oil and stop smoking and stop drinking,
18:48
Speaker 2: but you can't make yourself younger. So what do you
18:52
Speaker 2: do there? And how do you prevent this problem? And
18:55
Speaker 2: I guess the evolutionary answer to that is you don't
18:58
Speaker 2: need to worry about it because carriages will take care
19:01
Speaker 2: of it for you. But that's not entirely true, because
19:07
Speaker 2: you know, there are also higher rates of birth defects
19:10
Speaker 2: here with older parent older fathers.
19:15
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's so interesting. I'm just thinking about
19:19
Speaker 1: whether or not, Like I can see somebody creating a
19:23
Speaker 1: program or a product, or a diet or a protocol
19:27
Speaker 1: that's going to allegedly help you know, male fertility and
19:33
Speaker 1: you know, the reproductive capabilities of older men and selling
19:38
Speaker 1: that off the back of this.
19:40
Speaker 2: You know, well there's kind of there's kind of something already,
19:44
Speaker 2: which is sperm banks. There's absolutely no reason not to,
19:49
Speaker 2: you know, produce a supply that you know, when you're
19:53
Speaker 2: twenty years old that could be used later on.
19:57
Speaker 1: Yes, we I don't know if you remember one of
20:01
Speaker 1: the in hindsight, it's a bit sad now, but at
20:05
Speaker 1: the time it was hilarious. But do you remember an
20:09
Speaker 1: Australian singer and performer called Johnny Ruffo? No, no, so
20:14
Speaker 1: he was. He was on one of the talent shows,
20:16
Speaker 1: Tiff which one was it was it Australian Idol or
20:19
Speaker 1: was It doesn't matter anyway, he did really well in
20:21
Speaker 1: one of those, ended up being you know, quite quite
20:26
Speaker 1: successful in entertainment and music and sadly passed away.
20:30
Speaker 2: Gee.
20:30
Speaker 1: I don't know how long ago Tiff year and a
20:32
Speaker 1: half or so, I'm not sure, But anyway, he was
20:36
Speaker 1: on the show a couple of times and before he
20:39
Speaker 1: passed away, and he was as he was sick, him
20:43
Speaker 1: and his partner were going for him to donate sperms
20:48
Speaker 1: and he was He described in some detail of the process,
20:52
Speaker 1: and he was also very very funny, So it was
20:56
Speaker 1: like it was it was awkward, but it was so
21:01
Speaker 1: funny to hear that the way that he did that,
21:03
Speaker 1: and you know, he's walking out of this thing with
21:05
Speaker 1: his little jar and handing it to this strange woman
21:08
Speaker 1: and oh my god. But yeah, I don't know how
21:12
Speaker 1: else you would do that. You probably don't want to
21:13
Speaker 1: talk about that, David.
21:16
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it is a solution. You know. You
21:20
Speaker 2: could take the view, Look, I don't know when I'm
21:22
Speaker 2: going to have kids, and I don't want to. You know,
21:26
Speaker 2: I'm looking at this study and I'm seeing that at
21:28
Speaker 2: least at the age of forty five, you know, things
21:31
Speaker 2: get worse, and the study authors are saying, look, there's
21:34
Speaker 2: a pretty high chance it goes really bad after that.
21:37
Speaker 2: That you might say to yourself if you're in your
21:41
Speaker 2: twenty as well, you know, there's one solution there. I'll
21:43
Speaker 2: just I'll create a time capsule, you know, and then
21:49
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, you know, if I have kids when
21:51
Speaker 2: I'm sixty old, I'll use the twenty year old'sperg.
21:54
Speaker 1: I guess also, if you're like a lot of people
21:57
Speaker 1: are getting married older now, you know, so if you're
22:00
Speaker 1: a dude and you're getting married at thirty five, six, seven, eight,
22:05
Speaker 1: and you know, probably my sperm's okay at the moment.
22:08
Speaker 1: But if we start having kids in a year or two,
22:11
Speaker 1: I'm going to be in my forties. So yeah, I
22:13
Speaker 1: guess it's a it's a practical option for a lot
22:17
Speaker 1: of people. Anyway.
22:18
Speaker 2: Well, I think the last time we measured this, and
22:22
Speaker 2: it might have been the sense, so I'm not sure.
22:24
Speaker 2: The age of first marriage for Australian men was thirty
22:29
Speaker 2: three point seven in twenty twenty two, and that was
22:33
Speaker 2: up a big jump. I think that was like a
22:35
Speaker 2: five year jump on what it had been like five
22:38
Speaker 2: years before that. So, you know, the extended adolescence that
22:43
Speaker 2: is occurring with kids these days, he is affecting when
22:47
Speaker 2: they get married and you know, not to be an
22:51
Speaker 2: old fogie, but probably also affecting when they're lucky to
22:54
Speaker 2: have a child. So yeah, there is a societal trend
23:00
Speaker 2: towards older marriage and older childbirth, and whilst women tend
23:05
Speaker 2: to be very aware of that. You know that famous
23:09
Speaker 2: scene in My Cousin Vinnie the movie, You'll have to
23:11
Speaker 2: look it up where she's standing on the stupid of
23:17
Speaker 2: the thing and she's slamming a foot down saying, my
23:20
Speaker 2: biological clock is tick tick ticking. So you know, women
23:26
Speaker 2: are very aware of this and really focused on it,
23:30
Speaker 2: and men couldn't care less. This study says they should. Yeah.
23:37
Speaker 1: Is I mean, I don't know if you know the
23:39
Speaker 1: answer to this, but if someone's listening to this and
23:41
Speaker 1: them or their partner or they go, yeah, this makes sense.
23:44
Speaker 1: Where do I if I want to not get my
23:48
Speaker 1: sperm frozen or whatever butt or stored, but I want
23:51
Speaker 1: to go and get checked to see the viability of
23:56
Speaker 1: my sperm. Where do they just see a doctor? Is
23:59
Speaker 1: that the starting point?
24:00
Speaker 2: I think that'd be the starting point, is to ask
24:02
Speaker 2: their GP And neither you nor I as a doctor, Craig,
24:05
Speaker 2: so let's not hand out medical advice.
24:07
Speaker 1: I think, Well, no, I was just saying, where do
24:10
Speaker 1: we point them?
24:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a GPH that would be where I'd start. Yeah,
24:16
Speaker 2: and then they can do the work to figure out
24:18
Speaker 2: where to go from there.
24:20
Speaker 1: Could you imagine back in the day when you were
24:22
Speaker 1: cranking out kids, you know, sixty years ago, sixty years ago?
24:29
Speaker 1: Did it ever? Did you ever think about this stuff? Like,
24:32
Speaker 1: I mean, how old your youngest.
24:34
Speaker 2: Kid twenty one, twenty one.
24:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so that was two thousand and four,
24:39
Speaker 1: depending on what month, two thousand and three.
24:41
Speaker 2: Thousand and three, three, okay, they turned out twenty two
24:45
Speaker 2: this year.
24:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the oldest was born when ninety five, I mean,
24:53
Speaker 1: so thirty years ago. Like it was a very different
24:55
Speaker 1: landscape even thirty years ago, which is absolutely yeah, you could.
25:01
Speaker 2: Still eat chips at McDonald's with some safety. They didn't switch.
25:06
Speaker 2: They didn't switch to seed oils until two thousand and four,
25:10
Speaker 2: and they are among the first to switch, so I
25:15
Speaker 2: mean KF seed in switch till twenty twelve. But now
25:20
Speaker 2: now you're stuffed.
25:22
Speaker 1: So now maybe we could explore the correlation between beef
25:25
Speaker 1: tallow and male productivity reproductivity.
25:30
Speaker 2: That would be interesting it because it would have a
25:32
Speaker 2: dramatic effect in the United States and Australia at the
25:36
Speaker 2: very least, because a significant percentage of fried food consumed
25:40
Speaker 2: it comes from McDonald's.
25:42
Speaker 1: Incredible. Well, mate, it's never boring with you, It's always interesting.
25:47
Speaker 2: Now do you want to have you got time for
25:49
Speaker 2: another one?
25:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
25:52
Speaker 2: So there's this other one that I wrote a piece
25:54
Speaker 2: on which you won't have read because you just start
25:56
Speaker 2: paying the attention.
26:01
Speaker 1: Why don't you pick on TIV at least I read
26:04
Speaker 1: at least I read this one that you sent to me,
26:08
Speaker 1: and I read it. Well done, I will say it
26:11
Speaker 1: was quite short, so thanks for that.
26:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hit the highlights. Look, this is a brief thing,
26:17
Speaker 2: but I think it's important. Another really interesting study came
26:22
Speaker 2: out this week about fish oil, which is interesting because
26:27
Speaker 2: it says the opposite of what everyone has always said
26:30
Speaker 2: about fish oil. So this is a very significant, well
26:34
Speaker 2: constructed study looking at out on some very big databases
26:39
Speaker 2: in Europe, looking at do people who consume fish oil
26:44
Speaker 2: have less inflammation? And the answer is no, they don't.
26:49
Speaker 2: In fact, they have more.
26:55
Speaker 1: Fuck and how why did we have to say yes
26:57
Speaker 1: to the next story? Tip just shaken her head. Now
27:04
Speaker 1: you've got to rethink everything. Yeah, all right, come on,
27:07
Speaker 1: horse and lim keep going.
27:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, well this is a big shock, right because for
27:13
Speaker 2: at least since nineteen seventy when the whole fish oil
27:16
Speaker 2: thing started with you know who were they the Danes
27:21
Speaker 2: hands Bang and Yawn Dyerberg who went off to Greenland. Yeah,
27:27
Speaker 2: they went off to Greenland to study the Inuit, to say,
27:30
Speaker 2: why do the Inuit have less heart attacks. And it's
27:33
Speaker 2: they do nothing but eat meat all day long, every day.
27:37
Speaker 2: Why do they have less heart attacks? Yeah, well no, no,
27:41
Speaker 2: just meat. So they were eating you know, whales and
27:43
Speaker 2: seals and things, and they said, well, you know, shouldn't they.
27:46
Speaker 2: You know, the orthodoxy at the time was everyone should
27:49
Speaker 2: be on the Mediterranean diet and eating vegetables all day long.
27:52
Speaker 2: And they said, well, there's these people there eating nothing
27:54
Speaker 2: but meat and they've got less heart attacks. And so
27:58
Speaker 2: they went up and they investigated, and they included after
28:00
Speaker 2: a couple of years of examining them, that, ah, well,
28:03
Speaker 2: the problem. The secret here is the Amega three because
28:07
Speaker 2: the meat they're eating the fat, and it is full
28:09
Speaker 2: of amiga three fats because it comes from sea animal,
28:13
Speaker 2: marine life, fish, et cetera. That then they have more
28:17
Speaker 2: amiga three, particularly in colder waters, and so that must
28:22
Speaker 2: be the secret. It's all right, The health Establishment's perfectly okay.
28:25
Speaker 2: We haven't been telling people to do the wrong thing.
28:27
Speaker 2: This paradox is explained by the fact that they're getting
28:31
Speaker 2: a Mega three fats not just forget out about everything
28:34
Speaker 2: else they're eating. And that was it from the nineteen
28:38
Speaker 2: seventies till now that's that's been the story, which is, oh,
28:42
Speaker 2: Omega three is good for you, so you should have
28:45
Speaker 2: loads of fish oil and you'll be right. Now. The
28:51
Speaker 2: problem is it doesn't appear to be true. And the
28:58
Speaker 2: reason we know this is that this study looked at
29:00
Speaker 2: the inflammatory markers in people's blood strengths from these huge
29:03
Speaker 2: European databases where they're actually measuring these things as part
29:06
Speaker 2: of other data that they were capturing. And also they
29:09
Speaker 2: knew how much these people were supplementing with fish oil,
29:12
Speaker 2: so they knew, okay, they're taking fish will supplements and
29:16
Speaker 2: we know that they've got these information markers, and they
29:18
Speaker 2: found not only were they not better, they were worse.
29:23
Speaker 2: So the people having the fish oil tablets were actually
29:25
Speaker 2: had worse inflammation than the people who didn't. And that
29:31
Speaker 2: it's a bit of a problem because for the very
29:34
Speaker 2: longest time we've been telling people, oh, well you're just
29:36
Speaker 2: you know, having information problems. Take some fish will. The
29:42
Speaker 2: issue they say in the study is they said, well,
29:45
Speaker 2: what does make a difference, and they decided that the
29:49
Speaker 2: group that did best were the ones who had the
29:52
Speaker 2: best Amiga three Amiga six ratio, which is less Amiga
29:57
Speaker 2: six to omega three. That we've talked about this before.
30:01
Speaker 2: In the olden days, you know, when we were wandering
30:04
Speaker 2: the grassy plains of Africa, we had an Amiga three
30:08
Speaker 2: to a mega sixth ratio of about one to one,
30:10
Speaker 2: and we have about one and a half grams of
30:11
Speaker 2: each just from eating normal stuff food and we're all good.
30:16
Speaker 2: Now it's about one to thirty, so one omega three
30:20
Speaker 2: to about thirty a mega six. The reason for that
30:23
Speaker 2: is that all that seed oil, which is dominated by
30:27
Speaker 2: aniga six fats, is now a dominant part of our diet.
30:30
Speaker 2: So what this study showed was the really important thing
30:34
Speaker 2: is that ratio. You want to get that as close
30:36
Speaker 2: to one to one as you possibly can, preferably in
30:39
Speaker 2: the range sort of two to one or three to one.
30:41
Speaker 2: You know, if you can't hit one to one. And
30:44
Speaker 2: the worst that ratio was the more information markers that
30:48
Speaker 2: were in the bloodstream. So now study after study after
30:53
Speaker 2: study has come out saying this for the last decades, decades,
30:57
Speaker 2: loads and loads of them. And at the end of
30:59
Speaker 2: it all, the advice from our health authorities, people like
31:02
Speaker 2: the Heart Foundation, dieticians, et cetera, has been, oh, well,
31:05
Speaker 2: what you need to do, Yes, the ratio of stuffed Yes,
31:08
Speaker 2: that's the problem. What you need to do is take
31:09
Speaker 2: some fish oil and that will sort that out because
31:11
Speaker 2: you'll increase the mega three and that will sort out
31:13
Speaker 2: the ratio. This study says, no, it won't. Increasing the
31:18
Speaker 2: amega three doesn't solve anything. What you've actually got to
31:20
Speaker 2: do is reduce the amiga six. So that's the hard
31:24
Speaker 2: bit where you've got to stop eating margarine, you've got
31:26
Speaker 2: to stop eating fried food, you've got to stop eating
31:29
Speaker 2: processed food that's full of seed oils that are high
31:31
Speaker 2: in omega six. So there's just another piece of evidence
31:34
Speaker 2: in that. And then there's this whole complicating factor which
31:38
Speaker 2: is not to do with this. But take a look
31:40
Speaker 2: at a fish oil capsules contents at some point, A
31:45
Speaker 2: lot of them are not in fact squeezed out of fish.
31:49
Speaker 2: You know, they're based on things like sunflowl oil and
31:52
Speaker 2: so on, and then they've had some marine derived omega
31:55
Speaker 2: three added to them. So, say for a thousand milligram
31:58
Speaker 2: capsule that's sold as fish oil in fact only contains
32:02
Speaker 2: about three hundred milligrams of omega three fats, and they
32:08
Speaker 2: don't say what the other six hundred other seven hundred
32:10
Speaker 2: milligrams are but you might speculate that that perhaps they're
32:13
Speaker 2: a Mega six.
32:16
Speaker 1: That is so okay. So for people who are like, fucking,
32:21
Speaker 1: how do I figure out the ratio that without people
32:24
Speaker 1: having to become statisticians and researchers and scientists. The bottom
32:29
Speaker 1: line is reduce a mega six, which is contained primarily
32:33
Speaker 1: in processed foods, fatty foods, take away.
32:36
Speaker 2: Seed anything, anything fried is likely to be fried in
32:40
Speaker 2: a Mega six. Yeah, the fat in anything in a
32:45
Speaker 2: product on a shelf and a souper market is likely
32:47
Speaker 2: to be a seed oil high in a Mega six,
32:49
Speaker 2: particularly if it's something that has fat has a major
32:52
Speaker 2: component like addressing or a mayonnaise or a dip. Those
32:57
Speaker 2: things are going to have loads of seed oil in them.
33:01
Speaker 2: Chips are fried in it, even the crisps that you're
33:03
Speaker 2: buying the supermarket. All takeaway food is fried in it.
33:06
Speaker 2: All restaurant food is fried in it, unless the restaurant
33:09
Speaker 2: explicitly declares that it's not doing that. You know, like
33:11
Speaker 2: someone will say these are duck fat fried potatoes, then sure,
33:16
Speaker 2: then they're fried in duck fat. But everything else probably isn't.
33:20
Speaker 2: So avoid all seed oils I happen to have produced
33:25
Speaker 2: a really handy manual on this if anyone wants to
33:27
Speaker 2: get it, called a Good Fat Guide, which just go
33:29
Speaker 2: through the entire Australian food supply, every category of food,
33:34
Speaker 2: breaks it down, says this is where the Amiga six is.
33:37
Speaker 2: These are the things you can have in this food
33:38
Speaker 2: category that aren't high in Omega six. So looks at
33:41
Speaker 2: things like does it matter if the beef is grass
33:43
Speaker 2: fed or not? Does it matter, you know, if a
33:47
Speaker 2: fish is farmed or not, all those kinds of things.
33:51
Speaker 1: It's about time you promoted something. I think.
33:54
Speaker 2: Get it from the library.
33:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't be an idiot. Where do people buy it?
34:00
Speaker 2: This is anyway that sells books.
34:02
Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, this is the first time in
34:04
Speaker 1: bloody five years is ever mentioned a product that he's written.
34:08
Speaker 2: And the only reason I'm doing it, the only reason
34:10
Speaker 2: I'm doing.
34:11
Speaker 1: It relevant to what we're talking about.
34:13
Speaker 2: No, even more so is that is there's a lot
34:16
Speaker 2: of detail here. I wish I could give people a
34:19
Speaker 2: really simple rule of thumb, but it's really hard and
34:23
Speaker 2: you do need a guidebook, and that's why I write one.
34:26
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's just it's necessary. Is the only reason
34:29
Speaker 2: I'm doing it. We could spend the next sixteen episodes
34:32
Speaker 2: going through it page by page, where they could just
34:34
Speaker 2: go and get a book.
34:36
Speaker 1: All right, well mate, that is that's maybe more depressing,
34:41
Speaker 1: maybe than the bloody sperm thing. Anyway, that's where a
34:47
Speaker 1: little bit more informed than in light. And we'll say
34:48
Speaker 1: goodbye Ufair. But as always, thank you, sir, appreciate you now, pleasure,
34:55
Speaker 1: Thanks tiff O.
34:56
Speaker 3: Thanks.
34:58
Speaker 2: Are you sure she's the Yeah?
35:00
Speaker 1: You bit grumpy because you've got to throw out the
35:02
Speaker 1: half your buddy. What do you take take? Do you
35:07
Speaker 1: take fish oil supplements?
35:09
Speaker 3: Yes?
35:10
Speaker 1: What do you take?
35:12
Speaker 2: Fuck? I don't know.
35:13
Speaker 3: I'm too tired. I'm fucking burning everything.
35:17
Speaker 2: That's it. I'll give that.
35:19
Speaker 1: Be more like David. Get a T shirt that says
35:22
Speaker 1: that I will say goodbye a fair but thanks everyone,