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'Hamilton' Story and Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back theater lovers to another episode of the BSB Podcast.
• 0:03
  On today's episode, we're ready to talk about everyone's favorite $10 founding father, Hamilton, from its recent stop at the Fisher Theater.
• 0:09
  However, before we dive in, like, follow, and subscribe to us @bsb.insider on all social media platforms.
• 0:15
  Spoiler warning, if you're wanting to experience Hamilton without spoiling the experience, say no to this podcast and come back once you've been satisfied with the show.
• 0:22
  RJ, I feel like every, we start this with every show, but like, how many times did you?
• 0:29
  usher Hamilton without actually seeing Hamilton.
• 0:32
  Because I'm sure it's like the limit does not exist for Mean Girl reference here.
• 0:37
  Well, on average, Hamilton runs what three weeks at a time, two to three weeks at a time.
• 0:44
  And it toured at least three times while I was working.
• 0:49
  So nine weeks, nine, eight to nine shows a week.
• 0:57
  You know, you do the math probably 70 to 80 times.
• 1:02
  It's a lot of times.
• 1:03
  mean, like that's the thing about Hamilton.
• 1:05
  When it shows up, it shows up big.
• 1:08
  does a huge run wherever it goes.
• 1:11
  This is a show that brings people out in droves.
• 1:14
  So I can only imagine what it was like for you.
• 1:16
  Cause there's probably a packed house every single time you ushered the show.
• 1:20
  there was, there's, yeah.
• 1:22
  Everybody comes to see Hamilton.
• 1:23
  Hamilton has just taken the world by storm for over a decade now.
• 1:28
  And so you got to experience it in half its wonder, half its glory, because you got to usher, but not be a part of sitting down close to it and experience it like we did this
• 1:40
  past evening.
• 1:42
  Yeah, I mean.
• 1:44
  The concern of, there are some productions that just have like way more concern about the stereotypical theater roles, right?
• 1:53
  Like the holds at the beginning of the show or the top of act two, the, you know, no audio video.
• 2:02
  Um, and so most times, even if I was ushering it, like I for sure wasn't seeing like the first 10 to 15 minutes.
• 2:14
  of either act and or more than that because you know have people on their phones you have people talking that you have to address like anything that could possibly go wrong em
• 2:30
  especially when there's a full house like it's gonna go wrong because there's nowhere for people to go if they're in the wrong seat like there's literally not a seat open it's just
• 2:40
  there's a lot and bathrooms we won't even talk about those
• 2:43
  We experienced the bathrooms last night and like we never, you know, the men's room is never that bad.
• 2:49
  The men's room was bad, but the women's bathroom, my God, the way that the ushers, I felt so bad for them, had to like shepherd people into a line that was sneaking through this
• 2:59
  lobby to get to the bathroom was astounding.
• 3:02
  Like bravo to these ushers, cause I was like, man, I wouldn't want this job ever.
• 3:06
  No, that was always in like, honestly at Devos we didn't have to worry so much about manning the bathroom lines.
• 3:16
  We just had to be like, know, men's on the left, women's on the right.
• 3:20
  Because luckily every single, well, almost every single floor had bathrooms on it and there were five floors.
• 3:26
  ah They actually in my lab, yeah, five floors.
• 3:32
  uh
• 3:34
  Or I should say five and three points on both sides.
• 3:38
  um But yeah, it was chaos because also there were probably half the amount of bathrooms in in those restrooms.
• 3:50
  um Like maybe four stalls.
• 3:55
  um And so, yeah, when you have a house of three thousand people.
• 4:03
  And it's packed and like the bar lines were always, you know, all the way through the lobby.
• 4:11
  Um, but yeah, but actually the worst part of it was we used to not open the doors until a half hour.
• 4:19
  And so every door is into the house.
• 4:22
  So we wouldn't open the house till a half hour, which is standard for a lot of theaters, but imagine packing 3000 people into just a lobby.
• 4:31
  And that is.
• 4:34
  not pleasant.
• 4:35
  I could only imagine.
• 4:37
  can only imagine.
• 4:38
  Because again, this is when we're at the Fisher Theater, it was also packed.
• 4:42
  But like at least they like let people in, you know what mean?
• 4:44
  People can start flowing into their seats and stuff like that.
• 4:46
  So I can only imagine.
• 4:47
  Especially five stories.
• 4:48
  Holy hell.
• 4:49
  That's a lot of people comparatively.
• 4:52
  ah So I guess all that to say, I have a question for you then, is have you actually ever seen Hamilton sitting down to enjoy it the way it's supposed to be enjoyed?
• 5:01
  Or was this your first time doing that?
• 5:03
  Well, this was the first.
• 5:06
  Wow.
• 5:07
  Congratulations.
• 5:08
  We popped your Hamilton cherry appropriately then because we were so fucking close to the stage.
• 5:14
  Yes, we were, I was astounded at how close we were.
• 5:19
  We were seeing the spit fly
• 5:22
  We were.
• 5:23
  Hamilton was spitting everywhere, literally.
• 5:25
  uh
• 5:27
  I mean, I feel like I saw, I mean, it was mostly the men, but I saw quite a few just like fan, fan sprays across.
• 5:38
  I'm sure their faces are like covered from each other's.
• 5:43
  So I have to say that I have seen Hamilton a little bit more than you have, than sitting down.
• 5:48
  I did not think I had seen it as much as I had until I pulled up my handy dandy list, you know, of all the shows that I keep with all the New York shows and all the Broadway and
• 5:55
  Detroit shows.
• 5:56
  And go ahead and take a guess, not including last night, between New York and ATG Detroit or the Fisher Theater, how many times I've seen Hamilton.
• 6:06
  I wanna say four.
• 6:08
  You're wrong.
• 6:08
  uh According to my list, which I keep it up to date, so I want people to know that there's no errors in this list.
• 6:16
  ah I have seen Hamilton five times in Detroit, once on Broadway.
• 6:22
  So I had seen Hamilton a total of six times before we entered into the theater last night.
• 6:28
  I mean, I guess it makes sense because I feel like it tours almost every other year here.
• 6:36
  And it's been going for 10 years.
• 6:38
  So I guess that makes sense.
• 6:40
  The math is math.
• 6:42
  So I will say this, or I'm gonna give you a little bit of Brian lore.
• 6:45
  Well, I mean, you probably already know this, but I'm gonna give the listeners a little bit of Brian lore.
• 6:48
  um Brian once was in a relationship and the person he was in a relationship with was obsessed with the album, but we had to know the entire album before we could go see the
• 6:58
  show because that was his weird quirk, I guess.
• 7:01
  And so we listened to this obsessively and then we did not see the show before we broke up.
• 7:07
  And so when it came around, I actually saw it twice.
• 7:12
  twice or three times that first year.
• 7:14
  Because I said, well, fuck it.
• 7:16
  I'm going to go see the show because I didn't get to see it.
• 7:18
  And I know all the words to Hamilton now without having ever seen the show, which it was on CD people.
• 7:23
  And CDs are these things that you put into a player.
• 7:27
  And it was two sleeves open.
• 7:30
  was like so many CDs.
• 7:33
  It's not like a normal set of, like, not like a single CD because it's literally two and a half, two hours and 45 minutes, two and a half hours of just rapping and singing and stuff
• 7:41
  like that.
• 7:43
  and so I think it was my way of like reclaiming myself because I was like, you know, after dating somebody who definitely was a Hamilton in his personal life, if you know what I
• 7:51
  mean, I was like, I'm going to see Hamilton.
• 7:55
  And so I think like that was the first time besides, um, wicked, which I got tickets to see wicked when I was graduating college.
• 8:03
  The first time it was my first big boy show.
• 8:05
  The Hamilton was like, I had money.
• 8:07
  had my own money.
• 8:08
  I could go see a show.
• 8:10
  and I knew Hamilton and so that was like my first foray back into like theater in a very big way.
• 8:15
  So I saw this apparently obsessively.
• 8:18
  All that to say, which is wild.
• 8:19
  When I looked at the numbers, I said, you did not see the show six times and I have seven now.
• 8:25
  I mean, is that more than you've seen six?
• 8:27
  Um, so let's take a look at the list.
• 8:31
  I have seen six twice in New York.
• 8:33
  Once with you once without you and six I had seen.
• 8:38
  Four times in New York.
• 8:40
  I mean in Detroit, so I've seen it.
• 8:42
  I've seen six six times.
• 8:44
  just as much, which is crazy.
• 8:47
  Which for those who don't know, Six is probably one of my absolute favorite shows.
• 8:53
  ah Comparatively, if you look at the list, the only other shows that are close to it are Sweeney Todd at two, the Mamma Mia at three, and that's only because we once got held
• 9:03
  hostage for Mamma Mia.
• 9:06
  Other than that, every show is like one and done, one and done.
• 9:08
  know, Mulin Rouge I saw twice in Detroit and once in New York, so I guess that's the next closest.
• 9:14
  Like truly, there's not another show, oh.
• 9:17
  Sorry.
• 9:17
  Wicked.
• 9:19
  I was gonna say.
• 9:20
  Wicked.
• 9:21
  How could I forget?
• 9:23
  We've seen Wicked so many times because again, it's another classic.
• 9:26
  It's kind of Hamilton and Wicked are kind of in this thing where it's like their new phase, like their new wave classics, I would say.
• 9:34
  Like granted Wicked's 20 years old, but like these are ones that like aren't a Sweeny Todd that's been around forever.
• 9:39
  But people will just go in droves to see them no matter how many times it comes, no matter what it is.
• 9:44
  People want to see Wicked and Hamilton.
• 9:48
  Well, because they are, yeah, they always, those are the two, like, again, anytime I worked in the theater, was those two sold out religiously.
• 10:00
  And while they were always great to see, they were like everyone's nightmare to work because you know that you're getting the people who don't really come to theater, they
• 10:13
  only come because they've heard of this phenomenon called.
• 10:17
  Hamilton or wicked or whatever, which is again, like I think we again experienced that last night when people were asking where the bathroom was right?
• 10:24
  Like, you know, the audience is new when they've never been in the building before.
• 10:31
  Correct.
• 10:32
  Before we jump into Hamilton, I do have to go back.
• 10:34
  Everybody, don't even have to guess what RJ's show he's seen the most is.
• 10:38
  They actually sat down and enjoyed it because it's SUFFS at five.
• 10:43
  And I'm confident in that number and that answer that I'm not gonna even have you check.
• 10:48
  That is the show you've seen the most out of any show.
• 10:52
  Followed up by probably Mamma Mia.
• 10:55
  Yeah, well, it'll get surpassed someday.
• 10:58
  mean, it technically has already surpassed in regards to like what I've seen, but sitting down and paid for that is knowingly, I mean, seeing it three times in three days is pretty
• 11:10
  extreme.
• 11:12
  Did you get burnt out by the end?
• 11:14
  Like, again, I know this is a Hamilton podcast, but I do have to know, did you get burnt out by like day three where you're like, okay, I'm seeing the same show for the third time
• 11:21
  in the third day?
• 11:22
  Or for you, it just like still as magical?
• 11:26
  I think I just.
• 11:28
  I had a different appreciation every time.
• 11:32
  Like I was paying attention to something different.
• 11:34
  uh And because so much of my experience is based on the experiences of people around me that it was different every time.
• 11:46
  And the audiences were vastly different.
• 11:48
  So.
• 11:49
  I wouldn't say, like, would I have gone for a day four?
• 11:53
  Probably not.
• 11:54
  um At least not like back to back.
• 11:57
  That's a lot.
• 11:58
  um I mean, I definitely knew the dialogue and the songs by day three, but...
• 12:04
  um
• 12:06
  You're like, she's gonna hit this riff and then we're gonna go into song four and then we're done.
• 12:11
  Yeah, like I knew it pretty much in and out.
• 12:15
  I mean, will I still be literally watching the PBS special?
• 12:21
  Yes, correct.
• 12:24
  Let's pause there for second.
• 12:26
  Listeners, he's not just going to be watching the PBS special.
• 12:30
  He's going to be, if he has the capacity and or he's gonna throw a fucking party about this.
• 12:34
  Like this man has been so excited for stuff to come on PBS when it was announced over a year ago that I feel like I hear about it at least once a month.
• 12:45
  I mean, it's on the calendar.
• 12:47
  It is on the calendar.
• 12:48
  We now own, we now support PBS just so that we have unlimited access to stuffs.
• 12:54
  Because first off, we're a patron of the arts.
• 12:56
  Obviously we got to support, but also the man needs his Suffs And that's that.
• 13:03
  So what do you?
• 13:03
  media.
• 13:05
  So I think that this is an interesting comparison.
• 13:06
  So we saw Suffs recently and as much as we love it, I think that um it didn't have the same pull that Hamilton does, which Hamilton's also about American history.
• 13:20
  It's a very niche story.
• 13:22
  Why does Hamilton fill audiences?
• 13:26
  Like we were in, there was no empty seats.
• 13:29
  Like, I think that could probably be an exaggeration, but from what I saw, we were a packed house.
• 13:35
  Why do you think a story like Hamilton continues to just pull people in where, I don't want to compare ourselves to that, that's not fair.
• 13:42
  Why is it this show that people have attached themselves to so heavily?
• 13:47
  Yeah, I'm not even sure.
• 13:48
  I mean, yes, they're attaching themselves to the show, but I think they're attaching themselves to the things that make the show.
• 13:54
  I don't think it's the storyline.
• 13:56
  I don't think there's anything particularly.
• 13:58
  Fabulous about the story of Hamilton.
• 14:01
  I think it is everything that builds the show.
• 14:05
  So I think it's the choreography.
• 14:07
  I think it's the lighting.
• 14:08
  think it's obviously Lin-Manuel's music is unique and the witty, the humor.
• 14:20
  Like I'd say it's all of the pieces put together, whereas like
• 14:27
  Comparably, historically, yes, Sops is about American history, but it's not a spectacle.
• 14:35
  It is just, it's truer to American history than Hamilton is.
• 14:41
  Hamilton has its truths, but it is by no means historically 100 % accurate.
• 14:48
  Whereas I feel like, and that was due to them wanting to make it this thing, this phenomenon that it is.
• 14:56
  Suffs, I think, was so focused on the realism and the experience and wanting to stay true to that.
• 15:04
  They didn't make it in, Shaina didn't make it into some like spectacle.
• 15:09
  just is, I mean, it won the Tony for its writing because it is just so well written and the music is still very good, but nothing about it is crazy unique.
• 15:21
  It's very stereotypical musical theater storytelling.
• 15:25
  Whereas Hamilton, I mean, it's the first, I don't wanna say first because there are some previous shows that kind of leaned into like a R &B rap type situation, but nothing as
• 15:38
  heavily as Hamilton.
• 15:43
  Yeah, Hamilton took the world by storm.
• 15:45
  think you're right.
• 15:46
  I think there's a few things going on here with Suffs Well, I love Suffs.
• 15:50
  You're right.
• 15:51
  It's very, it's like very accurate.
• 15:53
  The thing that always strikes me about is that Suf uses pictures and stuff like that, that were real to like what happened.
• 16:00
  And you have like real life experiences in a way that they're told that it's meant to be, while maybe fictional, it's the experiences of these women where Hamilton was almost like
• 16:12
  designed to like
• 16:13
  reclaim history for like people of color and try to take back the power that was taken away from people of color because of what was happening during the time frame.
• 16:23
  It's kind of how I always saw it too.
• 16:25
  It's like, it's like we're, we're adding it's history plus, you know, it's like, it's like the, the, we're taking it and we're putting our own spin on it.
• 16:33
  And as a result, it is something that is more than just history.
• 16:39
  In fact, there's a lot of liberties like
• 16:41
  Little things like Philip having a brother and he wants one, but like he doesn't, there's like a lot more siblings there and stuff.
• 16:49
  Like little things like that that are changed about the story, because it's not about accurately telling a Hamilton story, but it's about telling a story that is representative
• 16:57
  of Hamilton, but also a reclaiming power that was kind of lost.
• 17:02
  It's kind of how I've always pictured it.
• 17:04
  Yeah, I mean, it's creative liberty, right?
• 17:06
  We see that in film all the time where we get the stories that are based on a true story.
• 17:11
  Hamilton is based on a true story.
• 17:14
  um Generally, it's giving folks an idea of what went down, but it by no means is word for word.
• 17:23
  Whereas, again, Suffs is literally like based on a book that was written and in true voice of what was.
• 17:33
  happening.
• 17:34
  I think, yeah, like, history is not always the most exciting thing.
• 17:38
  So Hamilton took it, they spun it and said, how can we make ultimately young generations want to pay attention to this thing?
• 17:47
  And not only did they create a show, but they created a movement around the show, right?
• 17:53
  I would say it's not even the show itself that people love.
• 17:57
  It is all of the things that the show has added on.
• 18:04
  like most recently, right, we had the sing-alongs in theaters and we had those live talkbacks and you have the ham for ham, uh kind of post show shows in New York city.
• 18:18
  You have the ham for progress.
• 18:20
  Like there's a lot of subsets of Hamilton that very, in a kind of ingenious way have ensured the legacy as we'll talk about legacy.
• 18:32
  um that this show has imprinted on not just the Broadway stage, but in historically.
• 18:41
  And what a great segue to talk about the main takeaway of the show.
• 18:45
  You know, after seven times of seeing this show, I think what was interesting was that the while the show has always been about legacy, for some reason, that's what really struck me
• 18:55
  about this entire show was just about how I feel like so many characters in the show.
• 19:01
  It wasn't necessarily about like what mark they were leaving on history.
• 19:04
  They were just kind of living history.
• 19:06
  But for Hamilton was always about
• 19:08
  What legacy am I leaving?
• 19:10
  Where's my name gonna be remembered?
• 19:12
  Who's gonna remember me?
• 19:14
  Growing up and losing your family and being an orphan and not really knowing that you're not gonna have much of anything, every motive and everything that he's ever done in his
• 19:24
  life was so fixated on building a legacy that no matter what, everything else kinda got to the wayside.
• 19:31
  People's feelings, people's relationships.
• 19:35
  oh
• 19:37
  dignity in a way sometimes, you know, and so I do think that like I was really like focused on the legacy part of this one and I don't know if something had changed with me
• 19:48
  if something had changed with the way that the story was presented and there was a lot changed about the story presented we're gonna get to that I promise but something about
• 19:54
  the legacy piece almost felt This sounds me but like almost force-fed I was like I was like I'm having so much legacy feelings that are being talked about that I don't remember
• 20:04
  having from any of my other experiences from Hamilton
• 20:07
  Interesting.
• 20:09
  Like personally, from the 75 glimpses that I've had of the show, which is like actually, I've never said that aloud, that, mean, genuinely, that's probably how many times I've
• 20:22
  just in passing seen the show.
• 20:24
  uh Legacy has always been so, so prominent, but I think again, from a lens of legacy to me.
• 20:36
  It's something I've always personally thought about, especially being, um, a person who's doesn't have like an immediate family.
• 20:47
  I don't, I'm not married.
• 20:48
  don't have children.
• 20:49
  I don't like, I'm not a philanthropist.
• 20:53
  Like I, like, what is my legacy on the world?
• 20:57
  Um, and so, but yeah, to what you were saying, like kind of the extremism of legacy, right?
• 21:04
  Like it does seem.
• 21:06
  Like, I think he was more aggressive in the physical choreography of last night's show when he talked about legacy.
• 21:22
  And so maybe that's why, like, I'm just distinctly thinking of the moments where he's physically pulling his arms away from the Schuyler sisters on multiple occasions where
• 21:33
  he's kind of saying,
• 21:36
  You know, I've got to do this thing.
• 21:37
  Um, I don't remember it being that harsh.
• 21:46
  it, it almost, yeah, before it kind of seemed, and it could for sure be an acting or directing choice, but it, before it was kind of like, Oh, like, no, I have to, I have to
• 21:56
  go.
• 21:56
  This felt like, no, I have to go.
• 22:00
  Like too bad for you.
• 22:02
  Like I gotta go.
• 22:04
  Whereas before it felt way softer.
• 22:05
  So I can see what you mean by it feeling more prominent because for multiple reasons, I think maybe we're both at an age where legacy feels a little bit more within our kind of
• 22:18
  wheelhouse, but also because the acting was like harsher.
• 22:25
  Yeah, I mean, I do think so.
• 22:27
  It's interesting to say the thing about legacy.
• 22:28
  I think that I have thought more about legacy now that we have been doing this.
• 22:33
  What are 120 followers on YouTube going to do without this wonderful podcast?
• 22:38
  No.
• 22:39
  But I do think that I think about that now a lot more.
• 22:41
  been like, why are we doing this?
• 22:44
  What is the purpose of us doing this?
• 22:46
  What is the legacy?
• 22:47
  What is the mark?
• 22:48
  What is going to happen?
• 22:49
  um And so I think that
• 22:52
  it like matters more now that we're in our thirties, you know, I think especially after recent events, just kind of in my own life, I just I'm like, okay, there is a point of
• 23:01
  like, what's what's next?
• 23:03
  What happens?
• 23:03
  How do we?
• 23:06
  What do we go from from here?
• 23:08
  But I do agree with you.
• 23:09
  I think that there was a I finally understood the running out of time thing.
• 23:15
  Like, you know, I like I always understood it like from like a like from like a musical standpoint and from like a
• 23:22
  From a person standpoint, I understood running out of time.
• 23:25
  I understand a lot more now as an editor and a writer and a producer and all those things.
• 23:32
  Like always feel like you're running out of time.
• 23:33
  You're always running out of, you don't have as much time as you want to.
• 23:37
  But Hamilton always felt like to me, like almost playing with that.
• 23:40
  Like you said, playful.
• 23:41
  He was a sly dog, but he was laid on his feet.
• 23:45
  You know what I mean?
• 23:45
  And that's why he kept, that's why he was like a tomcat.
• 23:48
  He kept landing on his feet and he was okay.
• 23:51
  that was like almost the coyness of him, but this one felt more rigid and flexible.
• 23:56
  I have to do this.
• 23:57
  It's not that like, I want to do this.
• 24:00
  It's that I have to do this.
• 24:02
  And if I don't, America's gonna fail.
• 24:06
  And so I think that there was just like a harsh is the word that comes to mind.
• 24:12
  There was like a harshness to the Hamilton character that I never really saw before, but I also understood why it was there.
• 24:18
  Yeah, I mean, and it's it's that balance right of like being ambitious, but also carrying this weight of
• 24:27
  wanting to be seen and perceived historically a certain way, which of course, like, here we are, like the irony is not lost on me in regards to like, here we are talking about the
• 24:38
  story.
• 24:39
  And that's exactly what the story implies that we will do.
• 24:43
  ah But like, where does, where and who does that matter to, right?
• 24:51
  Like at the end of the day,
• 24:53
  I think we all kind of have sometimes a grandiose expectation of how people will perceive us when we're gone.
• 25:02
  But like in actuality, is it just those closest to us that actually care?
• 25:10
  yes, in the moment, like I'm even thinking of like when a star passes away, right?
• 25:14
  Like we have those moments of like, wow, they like did so well and like we're in so many awesome things and they were such a good actor or whatever.
• 25:23
  But then like, two weeks later...
• 25:25
  who, you know, like that's it.
• 25:28
  You've got, people have moved on.
• 25:32
  So.
• 25:34
  It's to what cost of yourself are you worried about legacy and are you worried about.
• 25:44
  what mark you leave.
• 25:46
  um And obviously, Hamilton, that was a big, well.
• 25:55
  Yeah, correct.
• 25:56
  mean, and it's just, and we know that even that is not like truly real, right?
• 26:01
  Like we know in our lifetime, she was a great actress.
• 26:05
  We all cried when she passed away, but like three days later, we all catch, we like had to keep moving on with our lives, right?
• 26:13
  So granted her films, historically everything she ever acted in will like be forever existent.
• 26:19
  So, and that's where the legacy lives.
• 26:22
  So.
• 26:23
  To what degree, at what cost to yourself today, will your legacy?
• 26:31
  matter and not to keep drawing lines, like Suffs had a very similar song where she talks about, know, do I work towards this thing that I've been this movement that I've hoping
• 26:44
  been hoping for my whole life or do I start a family?
• 26:48
  Do I get married?
• 26:49
  Do I have children?
• 26:50
  ah But but making the decision to not do that until the work was quote unquote done.
• 26:56
  ah In Hamilton we see the cost.
• 27:00
  of when you try to do two things at once.
• 27:03
  You know, not to go back to another show, but I feel like there's parallels with also liberation and just like the legacy of like, why did somebody make that decision?
• 27:12
  You know, I don't personally understand how somebody can make that decision, not me personally, but like the daughter couldn't understand why her mom would make that
• 27:18
  decision.
• 27:19
  So trying to understand that of like, what is this legacy you left when you were part of this movement?
• 27:23
  It was a big movement.
• 27:25
  And so there is...
• 27:28
  Legacy is definitely something that I think a lot of people think of.
• 27:30
  You're right, as a psychologist, I can totally attest to that.
• 27:32
  People are always worried about like, what comes next?
• 27:36
  Who's next?
• 27:37
  What's the, I literally had someone say to me this morning, what's the point?
• 27:41
  Like what's the, what's the point of doing this every day?
• 27:44
  To think about that, when you think about Hamilton, you know, it's understanding why.
• 27:52
  He felt that when you're literally starting America.
• 27:57
  What a big responsibility to be a part of that.
• 28:00
  And also to just...
• 28:03
  I think about that line I wrote my way out.
• 28:04
  You know what I mean?
• 28:05
  When you're just somebody who has tried and struggled your entire life to get out and you did it, you don't want to just fall back and lose that all.
• 28:13
  Because you've built something for yourself.
• 28:15
  And that is just...
• 28:17
  There's a brilliance to that storyline.
• 28:20
  Well, yeah, and that obviously adds a whole other layer, right?
• 28:23
  When you come um as an immigrant and you have lost your parents, you have literally nothing and no one, and you feel this need to kind of like prove yourself to a degree that
• 28:40
  is...
• 28:42
  I guess like who are you doing it for?
• 28:44
  Like you have to decide who your audience is or if your audience is everyone, that's a pretty massive undertaking as well.
• 28:53
  For sure, for sure.
• 28:54
  And so with that though, I do think that before we run out of time, we do wanna talk about the cast.
• 28:59
  I think this is the part where we're gonna have a lot of divisive with our listeners and I'm sorry listeners ahead of time.
• 29:07
  Again, I've seen this six times.
• 29:10
  Give me a break, let me have a moment here.
• 29:13
  There was a lot of choices made with...
• 29:17
  The cast, like not the cast, but like the way they were portraying the characters.
• 29:21
  Some of them worked really well.
• 29:23
  Some of them I personally didn't care for.
• 29:29
  Being very careful with my words here.
• 29:32
  But I think I do have to start with a highlight.
• 29:34
  I think I have to start with a highlight.
• 29:36
  RJ, the king was one of the best parts of the show.
• 29:38
  Am I wrong by saying that?
• 29:41
  No, mean, weirdly, like, George III, OK, so like, as we know historically, he's a favorite for the characters, a favorite for many people, especially, obviously, Jonathan Groff m
• 29:55
  originating.
• 29:57
  I actually, this used to be one of my least favorite characters.
• 30:03
  I didn't understand the hype.
• 30:05
  I couldn't be less interested.
• 30:07
  He's not even on for much time.
• 30:09
  uh
• 30:11
  But also most of the time, again, most of those 70 to 80 times, I might have been up in the mezzanine, I was farther away, I was never truly paying attention to the facial
• 30:23
  expressions or I couldn't even see them.
• 30:24
  um And for some reason, I mean, character wise...
• 30:31
  still not my favorite.
• 30:33
  However, the portrayal in this cast, uh Matt Bittner, he was not messing around.
• 30:44
  Probably the standout or at least one of these standout performances for me for this show specifically because it was just the the tiniest of
• 30:59
  choices made an impeccable difference um and I mean the audience just ate it.
• 31:11
  Like the way he would like look at somebody or the way that he would just add a different intonation to something um Or like so one of my favorite so I love King George's songs I
• 31:23
  always have for some reason they were always some of my favorites that and Angelica Schuyler I would play those on repeat um I Think that his performance of even the songs
• 31:35
  were better than the original I'm so sorry Jonathan Groff.
• 31:38
  Please don't don't hate me um
• 31:41
  But like when he says the line awesome wow It wasn't like there was still a little bit of that gay voice But the way it was it was so dramatic and it was just like so over-the-top
• 31:52
  and it's just like drooling with sarcasm We're not that Jonathan Groff doesn't have that but there is just something about the way he brought a lot of life to a character that's
• 32:03
  on stage all that much and like I think Comedy was kind of the
• 32:10
  keyword here for last night's Hamilton performance, which we don't see a lot of.
• 32:13
  There was a lot of comedy added to the show that I've never seen before.
• 32:19
  And I think that they were just basically like to Matt Bittner, they're like, play it up, ham it up.
• 32:24
  Like literally just give it like, if you're at a five, give it a 10.
• 32:28
  And he did.
• 32:29
  And just from the way he would move sometimes, I would start laughing, like, because it was just so hysterically funny.
• 32:37
  Yeah, and it was, we kind of talked about this at the theater, but it was genuine to the original.
• 32:47
  However, it was still unique to the actor, which that is a really hard line in my opinion to kind of toe because you have the expectation of what people want to see, especially
• 33:01
  when you have a pro shot out there with the original cast.
• 33:04
  ah
• 33:06
  but then still kind of making it unexpected for the people who have seen it a bunch of times.
• 33:12
  And I think maybe, and this kind of trends across the cast of people have now seen the show for a decade.
• 33:23
  How do we make these creative choices new so that the people that have seen the show a dozen times are still interested?
• 33:34
  and still kind of almost caught off guard or paying attention to something that maybe they didn't previously pay attention to because it's never been done before.
• 33:44
  And I think that is, yeah, when we talk about leaning into the comedy, the whole cast doing that, but obviously this role being built for comedy, those kind of almost
• 33:56
  microaggression acting choices.
• 34:01
  the subtle winks and the eye contact is everything for this role and yeah, it was just...
• 34:09
  it was on point.
• 34:12
  And so when you were talking about the comedy though, and this is where I'm going to now switch.
• 34:16
  There are some roles that I feel that the added comedy did not necessarily work for as well as I maybe wanted them to, or it felt it is so different from what I expected.
• 34:28
  And the two of the ones that really stand out were John Laurens and Aaron Burr.
• 34:32
  So Nathan Haydel and Jimmie JJ Jeter So Aaron Burr, every time I've seen him has been a very serious role.
• 34:41
  And as you mentioned at the theater, he's funny because he's so serious.
• 34:45
  And they were really bringing out a comedic side to Aaron Burr.
• 34:51
  So this is my problem with it.
• 34:54
  First off, he reminded me a lot of Taye Diggs, which is not a bad thing.
• 34:58
  It's just, think that Tate Diggs has a very interesting comedy style that's really good for something like Rent, but then I couldn't necessarily see him playing Aaron Burr, you
• 35:07
  know?
• 35:08
  Because...
• 35:09
  Aaron Burr is somebody who was uptight to the point where he eventually gets so fed up that he kills somebody.
• 35:14
  He gets so distraught and angry.
• 35:18
  And it doesn't always compete with the way he was being comedic and funny and like almost making jokes with the audience and very, like the way he delivered lines, he seemed like
• 35:28
  almost like a silly goofball that doesn't remind me of somebody who would go to the extreme of killing someone because he didn't get his way.
• 35:33
  Like I think that's where like the cognitive dissonance is happening with this character.
• 35:38
  But then when I look it up, he previously played Hamilton at the Richard Rogers Theater in New York, which he would have the perfect comedic chops for Alexander Hamilton, which our
• 35:48
  Alexander Hamilton was more straight-laced and it was more uptight and which felt like an Aaron Burr thing.
• 35:55
  And so I feel like those two, I wish they almost, I wish I could have switched them because I feel like their energy was for the other role there.
• 36:03
  And so that's my one thing of just like, it was interesting because I wasn't expecting so much comedy from Aaron Burr.
• 36:07
  I was expecting more of that sleazeball comedy from like Hamilton who is a sleazeball, you know?
• 36:14
  Yeah, what yeah.
• 36:16
  And again, I'm curious, like if this was a direction choice or an acting choice.
• 36:21
  um Because so because across the board, it felt like they were leaning in to comedy where I haven't seen it done before.
• 36:35
  And I think, I mean, right off the bat, like literally the opening number, when he kind of adjusts the lines to be funny, even though...
• 36:47
  They weren't they aren't really like you like like you're mentioning like he's he's narrating in a way that previously felt just kind of like here's how things are but like
• 37:01
  still witty because he is witty right he's smart but he's not like
• 37:07
  Boy humor.
• 37:09
  What I mean by that is like child, like ha ha, like.
• 37:13
  I don't know, like 13 year old boy.
• 37:15
  uh And that's kind of what it felt like, which yeah, we get, we were used to getting that from a little bit from Hamilton and, um, but, um,
• 37:31
  And yeah, and then Aaron Burr is supposed to like strut in and be like, you guys are stupid, right?
• 37:35
  Cause the words coming out of his mouth are like, keep your mouth shut and smile.
• 37:41
  But yet he's like tossing out jokes.
• 37:44
  Like it's his job.
• 37:46
  So yeah, it's an interesting, it's an interesting decision.
• 37:53
  to be fair, the audience ate it.
• 37:55
  Like the audience, they loved it.
• 37:59
  I think because for me, it like surprised me.
• 38:05
  I like wasn't expecting it.
• 38:06
  So you're like, oh, that's kind of funny.
• 38:09
  But then the more in the moment you think it's funny, but then when you think about it, kind of like you just mentioned, like this guy was like so driven by career and passion
• 38:17
  and wanting to get somewhere in life.
• 38:20
  Obviously, when he talks about taking the Senate seat and switching uh
• 38:28
  sides and then going for presidency like that's not what you would expect and then going into a duel right and yeah so who's to say if anybody knows if it was a directing choice
• 38:44
  or an acting choice i'm just curious if is this like what we can expect to see from Aaron Burr going forward probably i mean at least for however long this tour is running
• 38:54
  For sure, you know, there are some changes too, which part of this change would be in part two, but I do want to address it because you know I love the Schuyler sisters.
• 39:01
  You know I love all the actresses.
• 39:02
  I love, I love like Maria Reynolds, one of my favorites, but Angelica Schuyler always, always a standout.
• 39:11
  I love the role.
• 39:12
  I think Amanda Simone Lee did a great, fantastic job, but they did change Eliza a little bit and it has to do with Burn and we'll talk about it more in part two, but they made her
• 39:22
  a little more.
• 39:23
  angry, a little more intense, which I thought was an excellent choice.
• 39:28
  Because when every other time I've seen Eliza during burn, she's very, she's sad, but almost like in a passive way.
• 39:37
  And then when uh Lily Soto was just like, when she got to the part of that song, and she's like, wants him to just burn and she's angry, I was like, that makes so much more sense
• 39:49
  for the character, even though she's like stuck in her role as a wife.
• 39:53
  know because of the time.
• 39:55
  You're still angry.
• 39:56
  You're still upset.
• 39:57
  He blew up her entire life because of his actions.
• 40:00
  And so I do have to give a shout out to Lily Soto because I just thought that was an excellent choice and her and she was probably one of the best Eliza's that I've seen on
• 40:08
  stage.
• 40:09
  Yeah, I would agree.
• 40:10
  Again, like, I don't know if it's because we were so close and I was able to see those facial expressions, but it was definitely like, I've seen it before.
• 40:20
  I mean, you see it in the pro shot too, where it's like sadness, but it's like a reserved anger.
• 40:26
  This wasn't reserved.
• 40:28
  It was just anger.
• 40:30
  And I think it finally feels real.
• 40:34
  Like I think it finally, and I think, mean, based on the audience, I mean, there were what three, two to three, um, interruptions during that song where the audience started hooting
• 40:47
  and hollering and clapping.
• 40:48
  And I think it's because of that, because that's real.
• 40:53
  Like the anger, it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman.
• 40:56
  Like if you're married and your spouse cheats on you, mean, that alone.
• 41:02
  is a thing, right?
• 41:03
  But then to go publicize it to the entire nation on blast and blow up your life.
• 41:11
  I can't even imagine, like just for a moment, be like, my partner, not only did they sleep with someone else regularly in our home, in our bed, but they just told the literal rest
• 41:29
  of the world on purpose.
• 41:31
  I can't even sit with that.
• 41:32
  Like it doesn't even fit in my brain.
• 41:35
  So yeah, that anger justifiably and the acting on point um because you still, do like, you're both equally crying and like an angry cry.
• 41:50
  Yes.
• 41:52
  As just being in her shoes a fraction, I've always been very angry.
• 41:55
  It's why one of the reasons why I loved the version first burn that they put out later, which was the original version, because it's so angry.
• 42:01
  And I was like, yeah, Eliza should be angry.
• 42:03
  So to finally see that like fully realized.
• 42:06
  And again, is it because we were closer?
• 42:07
  It could be because man, when you saw the anger on her face, I was like, oh, wow, that's intense.
• 42:13
  That's good.
• 42:14
  That's, that's what I want to see for Eliza.
• 42:16
  That was, um, that was fantastic.
• 42:18
  And so, you know,
• 42:20
  There's, again, a lot of different choices were made for this one.
• 42:23
  Some of them I liked better than others or maybe not even liked.
• 42:26
  just I wasn't expecting them.
• 42:29
  So I was caught off guard.
• 42:32
  I think it maybe is the good word.
• 42:33
  It's just like, I wasn't expecting them.
• 42:35
  But the audience, you're right, the audience ate it up.
• 42:37
  They loved the performances that Hamilton gave.
• 42:39
  And this is why it really does stand the test of time.
• 42:42
  Yep.
• 42:43
  And that's why this, uh, these shows run for, you know, three weeks and they sell out every single show.
• 42:53
  So this won't be the last time we see Hamilton is what you're saying.
• 42:57
  I mean, I mean, it'll be back because it's, it's literally, it's a.
• 43:05
  timeless exploration of musical theater, of everything that is put into musical theater.
• 43:17
  for sure.
• 43:18
  And that concludes our part one discussion of Hamilton, but stay tuned for part two where we explore all the beautiful stage magic.
• 43:24
  Thanks again for joining us here in our box seats until next curtain call.