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The Deadliest Special Forces in the World · The Infographics Show Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone to beyond infographics.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome back. Today, we're diving into something, well, something
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that gets a lot of attention, documentaries, debates, you know,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the whole nine yards.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're talking about the world's most elite special operations forces,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the Tier one units.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Right, and we want to go past the you know,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the glossy images, the Hollywood stuff, the refruitment posters that
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: make it look like a video game.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Forget the meths. We're really trying to get into the
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: tactical DNA, you could say, the real nuts and bolts
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: of how these global Tier one units actually function.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So our mission today it's not really about asking that
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: question everyone asks, Okay, who's the best? Yeah, because honestly,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: that's that's kind of simplistic, isn't it.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: It really is, how do you even measure that? Instead,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: we're looking deeper. We want to analyze their shared origins,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: where they came from.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and how they're set up differently, their unique organizational structures.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: That tells you a lot.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And the training, the selection process, I mean, the stories
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: there are just legendary. The kind of physics and psychology involved.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, it's brutal, and we also have to touch
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: on all the tougher parts, the controversies that inevitably seem
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to follow units operating at this kind of level in
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the shadows.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: It's unavoidable when the stakes are that high.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: We've got a pretty deep stack of source material to
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: work with today, too, comparative military analyzes, organizational charts which
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: sound dry but actually reveal.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: A lot they do, plus historical anecdotes, insider perspectives. We're
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: digging into Delta Force, the British sas naturally dvgru Seal
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Team six as most people.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Call it, and key international players too, Germany's KSK Israel
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Sayer may call Russia's Spetsnaws. It's a global picture.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: So for you listening, the goal here is to give
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: you a clear framework, a structured way to kind of
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: process all this complex information pretty quickly. We want to
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: focus on those aha moments, Yeah.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: The connections, you know, understanding the lineage, how these units
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: are related sometimes in surprising ways, and that mental fortitude piece.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: It's just incredible, it really is.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And what jumps out right away, I think when you
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: look across all this material is how much modern sof
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: special Operations forces pretty much globally, regardless of the country
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: or the budget. Oh is its whole existence, its core
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: concepts to one single original unit.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Right, And that's really where we have to kick things off,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: isn't it, with the founders that shared lineage.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: We absolutely have to start with the British Special Air Service,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the SAS. They are, well, they're globally recognized as the foundation,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: the original bleeprint for almost every other elite unit that followed.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I think most people have heard the name SAS, but
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: the context of why they were created, that's crucial. This
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't some peace time innovation.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely not, says is the oldest modern SOF unit.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: It was founded way back in nineteen forty one by
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a British Army officer named David Sterling.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And this was smack dab in the middle of World
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: War Two, right in North Africa.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Exactly in the deserts of North Africa during some of
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the frankly bleakest days for the Allies. Conventional forces were
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: really struggling against Rommel the desert Fox.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And Sterling had this different idea he did.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: He believed that small, highly mobile, really dedicated teams could
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: achieve things that you know, entire battalions were failing to
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: do hit the enemy where they least expected it, and his.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Core concept it was pretty radical for the time, wasn't it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Completely He envisioned these small teams parachute train getting dropped
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: deep behind enemy lines. Their job gather intelligence, sabotage key
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: assets like.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Aircraft on the ground. That was a big one, right I.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: That was a huge one. Destroying parked aircraft and also
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: attacking vital supply lines, hitting reinforcements before they could reach
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: the front. It was really the birth of modern unconventional
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: warfare tactics as we understand them.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: And this leads to something pretty amazing about their origin story,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the disinformation aspect.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is brilliant, pure operational security genius. The
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: unit was originally formed as l Detachment Special Air Service Brigade.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, brigade. That sounds substantial, right.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: A brigade in military terms usually means what three thousand
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: to five thousand soldiers. It implies a major operational force,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: a big paratrooper push. But the reality was completely different.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Get this. The entire brigade consisted of just five officers
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: and about sixty enlisted men.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Wow, just sixty five guys called a brigade exactly.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: It was a deliberate, calculated deception. The whole point was
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: to fool Axis intelligence, make them think this massive British
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: paratrooper regiment was operating deep behind their lines causing chaos.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Did it work? Did German intelligence buy it?
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: The sources strongly suggest it did. It caused significant confusion
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: in the German high command about the actual size and
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: nature of the brigain threat in their rear areas, and the.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Early successes probably fueled that confusion.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Precisely, the unit had some spectacular early successes, reportedly destroying
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: hundreds of enemy aircraft on the ground in a pretty
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: short time. That lent credibility to the idea of a
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: much larger coordinated airborne effort.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: So it tied up German resources hunting ghosts.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: It absolutely did resources trying to counter a massive unit
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: that simply didn't exist. It was psychological warfare combined with
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: kinetic action. A total operational success that really set the
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: template for future SOF units. Small size, deep penetration and
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: that element of surprise, even deception.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: It's incredible. But then after the war, after proving how
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: effective this model was, they were actually disbanded. That seems crazy, It.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Does seem counterintuitive. Yeah, they were briefly disbanded right after WWIA,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: and it may be seen as a wartime anomaly, but
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: it was only temporary. The need for such capabilities quickly
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: became apparent again, so just two years later they were reformed,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: and that reformation lead the permanent groundwork for the modern SaaS.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: We know today and their motto, who dares Wins. You
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: hear that everywhere in the SOF world.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: It's arguably the most famous SOF motto. It just perfectly
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: encapsulates that required mindset, profound mental discipline, audacity, the willingness
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: to take calculated risks, and it became a standard adopted
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: or adapted by many others, including interestingly the Israelis.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Later on, which brings us neatly across the pond, so
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: to speak, to Delta Force officially the first Special Forces
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Operational Detachment Delta or first SFODD.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: That's right, the American equivalent, and the connection isn't just philosophical.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: They literally took the SAS model and imported it.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Delta Force came about much later, though, in nineteen seventy.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Seven, Yes, founded in seventy seven by Colonel Charles Beckwith,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and its creation wasn't some organic evolution within the US
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: military structure. It was a direct, urgent, strategic response to
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: a clear and present danger, the rise.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Of international terrorism in the seventies.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The nineteen seventies were plas legged by these highly publicized,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: often horrific international terrorist incidents. The Munich Olympics massacre in
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: seventy two was probably the most stark example. The US
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: government looked around and realized, quite frankly, it did not
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: have a dedicated, full time counter terrorism unit ready to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: respond globally to something like that.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: And Beckwith got the job, which was seen as pretty
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: much impossible.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: At the time, completely impossible. He was tapped to develop
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a Tier one full time counter terrorism unit ready for
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: global deployment in just twenty four months from scratch.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: How did he even think he could pull that off?
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Well, he had what you might call an ace up
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: his sleeve. His prior experience was key the reason he
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: was probably the only person who could attempt it on that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Timeline the time with the Sas.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Precisely, Beckwith had spent time as an exchange officer with
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: the British SAS back in the nineteen sixties. He had
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: served alongside them doing counterinsurgency specialized warfare. He saw their
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: model up close.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: And he realized the existing US special forces, the Green Berets,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: were quite right for this new threat. He did.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: He deeply respected the Green Berets, but he recognized their
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: focus was different unconventional warfare training guerrilla forces, not the
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: high speed, surgical direct action counter terrorism needed for hostage
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: rescue or taking down terrorist cells and urban environments.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: So he didn't just borrow a few ideas. He took
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the core structure.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: He absolutely did. He drew directly on the SAS's compartmentalized
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: squadron structure, their incredibly grueling selection process focusing on individual
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: resilience and intelligence, and their intense focus on CQC close
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: quotas combat. That became the bedrock for Delta Force.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: That shared DNA explains why so many sources say that
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: two units basically mirror each other operationally. Culturally.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: It's a direct lineage, and that initial connection forged back
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: in the late seventies. It wasn't just a one off.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: It translates into a level of operational synchronization today that's
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: pretty remarkable. Collaboration isn't just encouraged, it's kind of expected
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: at the highest levels.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: How close is that relationship now?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Exceptionally close. It goes way beyond standard military alliances. I mean,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: the US and UK militaries regularly exchanged personnel, that's normal,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: But the SAS and Delta Force, they conduct really intense
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: personnel exchanges. We're talking about operators from both sides serving
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: extended tours inside the.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Other unit, embedded within the other force.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Deeply embedded learning their specific tradecraft, internalizing the culture, building
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: personal relationships. It creates an incredible level of trust and understanding.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And this integration isn't just theoretical, It's been proven in
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: the field. Right.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Task Force Black, ah, Yes, Task Force Black. This is
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: where you see that concept of joint operations reach its
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: absolute peak. This joint US UK task Force, primarily made
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: up of Delta Force and SaaS operators, operated extensively in
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: the Middle East, especially during the height of the Iraq
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: War in the mid two thousands, and.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Their impact was significant.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Staggering is the word the sources use. They reportedly neutralized, captured,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: or killed roughly three thousand, five hundred terrorists and insurgents
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: in about a five year span three five hundred.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Why is that number that timeframe so remarkable.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Because it demonstrates more than just firepower. It shows this
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: seamless intelligence integration, the ability to plan and execute incredibly complex,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: high value targeting raids night after night with phenomenal precision
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: and crucially very low collateral damage, usually so that.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Tier one level national differences almost disappear.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: They largely does all. Yeah, they're speaking the same operational language,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: using some more tactics, often derived from that original SaaS
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: blueprint from North Africa. It's about the mission, not the
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: flag on the.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Shoulder patch, which reflected in their shared mission sets today exactly.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Both units conduct the full spectrum counter terrorism, counter narcotics,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: covert operations, capturing or killing high value targets hvts, high
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: profile raids, hostage rescue, and also importantly training foreign militaries
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: and partner forces. They're essentially complementary systems built from the
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: same core design.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Is fascinating stuff. And hey, if you listening are enjoying
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: gaining this level of insight, going beyond infographics like this,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: please do take just a second to read the show
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: five stars. It really helps others find.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Us definitely appreciate that because we're about to shift gears
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: now and get into the nitty gritty of how these
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Tier one units are actually structured internally. That reveals a
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: lot about how their capabilities differ, even when their missions
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: seem similar on the surface.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the SaaS model wasn't just about philosophy. It
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: was about a very specific structure, and that starts with
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: their core fighting element, these saber squadrons.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: That's right. The main combat power of the SaaS resides
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: and four active duty saber squadrons. They're designated A, B, D,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and G squadron. Each one is relatively compact, around sixty
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: or so men.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: And the genius of this structure, the reason it got copied,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: is its flexibility. Right if force's specialization, but keeps the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: whole squadron.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Versatile, exactly built in versatility. Each of those saber squadrons
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: is further broken down into four distinct highly specialized troops.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Each troop focuses on a specific operational environment or insertion method.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Let's break those down because this is key to how
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: these ass can operate literally anywhere on the globe.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, So first you have the Air Troop. Their specialty
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is parachute and high altitude insertions, Halo hao, static line,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: the works, masters of aerial delivery, got it. Then there's
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: the boat Troop. They focus on all things maritime, amphibious operations, combat, diving,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: stealth insertions from the sea, handling small boats, kayaks, that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: sort of.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Thing makes sense. Mobility Mobility Troop.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: These guys are the vehicle experts tactical driving, cross country
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: navigation and specialized vehicles, vehicle maintenance and austere environments, mounting
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: heavy weapons on vehicles, think desert patrols, long range reconnaissance.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: And the last one mountains.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: The Mountain Troop dedicated experts in mountaineering, rock climbing, operating
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: in extreme cold weather, Arctic warfare, high altitude survival.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: So within one squadron you have teams ready for the jungle,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the desert, the arcsic, underwater, whatever the mission.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Demands precisely, and the squadrons themselves aren't static. They're in
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: constant motion, rotating through different dedicated cycles.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: What kind of cycles, Well.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: There's a counter terrorism duty cycle where one squadron is
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the UK's primary response force. Then there's a cycle focused
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: on deep squadron training, honing those core skills. There are
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: operational deployments obviously, and then there's strip duty. Strip duty
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: that means they're on immediate high alert standby, ready to
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: deploy anywhere in the world at a moment's notice for
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: a crisis response. This constant rotation keeps everyone sharp, prevents
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: skill fade, and ensures maximum readiness.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: But the SAS structure goes beyond just the fighting squadrons.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: They have these uniques of fort wings right, yeah, it
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: seems like the real SS difference.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. These dedicated specialized wings are crucial for maintaining institutional knowledge,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: driving innovation, and supporting the SABER squadrons. They show a
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: real commitment to continuous improvement.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Like the counter Revolutionary Warfare Wing the CRW.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, the CRW wing. This isn't just a basic training cell.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: It functions as a dedicated, world class school teaching the
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: absolute most advanced counter terrorism skills and tactics. They ensure
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: that whichever squadron is rotating onto ct duty is at
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the absolute cutting edge. They refine doctrine constantly.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And then there's the UH Operations Research Wing. This sounds
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: really interesting operators working with scientists.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: It is really interesting. This wing pairs experienced SaaS operators
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: directly with civilian Ministry of Defense scientists and engineers why
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: to proactively evolve tradecraft and gear.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So instead of just using standard military issue.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: They evaluate and rapidly develop new equipment specifically tailored for
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: special operations use our sources. Specifically credit this wing this
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: unique collaboration with coming up at the concept of the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: flash bang grenade the stun grenade.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: They invented the flashbag the concept.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, before the flash bang, tactical teams relied heavily on
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: explosive breaching, which carries a high risk of injury to
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: hostages or the team. The flash bang provided a non
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: lethal way to create simultaneous sensory overload blinding light, deafening sound, which.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Completely changed the game for room clearing and hostage rescue.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Fundamentally shifted the tactical calculus. That's a huge contribution to
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: global counter terrorism tactics born directly out of this specific
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: SaaS organizational structure that prioritized innovation.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Incredible and the last one the Revolutionary Warfare Wing right
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the RWW.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: This wing works very closely with six, which is the
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: UK secret Intelligence Service. Similar to the CIA. They often
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: handle extremely sensitive intelligence operations or covert actions that require
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: military skills but fall under intelligence oversight.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And they use older operators for this often.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, it leverages the immense experience of older, highly seasoned operators,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: guys who might be past their prime for say the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: forty mile wreck March, but whose trade craft, understanding of
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: intelligence cycles and judgment are invaluable for these complex, politically
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: sensitive missions.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the s model. Now let's flip back
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: across the Atlantic Delta Forces structure. Unsurprisingly, it sounds familiar,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: very familiar.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: They also rely on four primary assault squadrons designated A, B, C,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: and D. It's the direct mirror of the SaaS Saber
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: squadron organization.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: But the internal troops structure is a bit different, tailored
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: maybe to US needs slightly tailored. Yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Within each Delta assault squadron, you typically have two dedicated
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: direct action assault troops. These are the primary breachers, the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: door kickers, optimized for physical entry and neutralizing threats. Plus,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: each squadron also has its own dedicated reconnaissance and surveillance
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: troop for intelligence gathering ahead of an assault.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And unlike some other US Army units, DELTA seems highly
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: self sufficient. They don't rely on borrowing assets as much.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: That's a really key point about DELTA structure. They maintain
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a high degree of internal self sufficiency, keeping critical support
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: elements within the unit separate from the larger army system,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: like their own helicopters exactly. This includes their own internal
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: aviation Support platoon. They operate a small specialized fleet of
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: AGE six and MH six helicopters, the famous Little Birds,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: which is distinct from the Army's main special operations aviation unit,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: the one hundred and sixtieth sor the Nightstalkers. Having their
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: own dedicated Birds gives them incredible flexibility and responsiveness.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And they have their own signals support squadrons too.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: They do dedicated signals for secure communications deep behind enemy lines,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: and a comprehensive support squadron handling logistics, EOD, medical, everything
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: needed for sustained independent operations.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: There is one key organizational difference though, in terms of
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: personnel reservists.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Right Unlike the SAS, which maintains two territorial Army regiments
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: basically reserve units composed of part time but highly skilled
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: former operators or specialists Delta Force operates entirely as a
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: foul time active duty force, no reserve component.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, so SAS and Delta share that core structure. Now,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: let's bring in the Navy's contribution to this Tier one world.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: D EVGRU, that Naval's Special Warfare development group. But everyone
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: knows them that.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Seal Team six. Yeah, that nickname is legendary and it
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: has its own interesting history.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: It was deliberate deception again, right like the SAS Brigade.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: It was Richard Marsenko, the unit's founder back in nineteen eighty,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: specifically chose the name Seal Team six. Why because at
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the time there were only two active Seal.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Teams in the Navy, so calling it six.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Was meant to confuse Soviet intelligence, make them think the
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: US Navy had at least six Seal teams, suggesting a
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: much larger, more diverse special operations capability than actually existed
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: at the time. Pure Marsenco, Bravado and Psyops.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And today DVGRU is much much larger than that original
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Team six.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Oh exponentially larger. It's a huge organization now. Our sources,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: citing figures from around twenty fourteen, put its off thriceed
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: strength at something like one seven hundred and eighty seven
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: personnel and that includes over four hundred civilians.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a massive support structure. It is.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: It reflects the complexity of maintaining a unit capable of
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: continuous worldwide deflorymat managing incredibly high end technology, intelligence, fusion, logistics,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: everything needed to support those frontline operators.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: To help understand this complex structure, they use colors for
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: their squadrons. It's a helpful way to think about it.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It is. DBGRU is divided into several color coded squadrons,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: each with a specific role. You have the four primary
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: assault squadrons, the line squadrons, Red Squadron, Blue Squadron, Gold Squadron,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: and Silver Squadron. These are the direct action specialists, the
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: tip of the spear.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, those are the assaulters. What about the support functions? Right?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Then you get into the specialized support, which is just
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: as crucial. Black Squadron is dedicated to intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: They provide the critical eyes and ears for the assault teams,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: often deploying ahead of them.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: In Gray Squadron.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Gray Squadron handle mobility and transportation. They operate the specialized vehicles.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: The boats manage the unit's divers and often form the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Quick Reaction Forces QRFs. They get the assaulters where they
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: need to go discreetly and quickly.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And critically like the SAS and Delta. They have their
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: own internal selection and.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Training arm Yes, Green Team. This isdevgi u's Internal Selection
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and Training Squadron. It ensures the unit maintains complete control
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: over the standards, the specific skill sets, and the pipeline
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: for bringing new operators into the assault squadrons. They grow their.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Own And if we drill down into one of those
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: assault squadrons Red, Blue, Gold, Silver, how are they structured? Okay?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So, each assault squadron is typically led by a Navy
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: commander that's an five rank. That squadron is then broken
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: down into three troops, troops led by usually led by
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: lieutenant commanders fours or senior lieutenant's O three's, And importantly,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: each troop also has a very senior enlisted advisor, a
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Master Chief Petty Officer E nine, known as the troop chief.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: He brings decades of operational experience.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: And those troops about sixteen guys. They break down even
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: further they.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Do into the basic fighting unit, the four man assaulted team.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: These small teams are typically led by experienced senior enlisted seals,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: chief petty officers, or senior chiefs. This layered structure allows
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: for incredible flexibility from large squadron level operations down to
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: highly specialized foreman missions.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: The sheer level of detail and specialization within Delta SASS
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and DVGRU it's clear that success isn't just about individual skill,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: but how that skill is organized and supported.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, the organizational chart might seem boring, but it's fundamental
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: to their capability and achieving that capability requires the one
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: thing all these units absolutely share, surviving a selection and
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: training process that is legendary for its brutality, the crucible.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, selection, this is where the myths really fly. We
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: touched on this, But that image of the Tier one
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: operator is just this huge, muscle bound guy. Yeah, it's
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: often wrong, isn't it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It really is. Our sources, including quotes from actual Special
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Forces commanders, explicitly debunk that myth. Myth number one, not
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: all SOF soldiers look like the hulk.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So size isn't the main thing, not at all.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: The focus is much more on endurance, cardiovascular fitness, functional strength,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: and critically that mental conditioning resilience. One commander mentioned many
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: of his best operators look like you know, the regular
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: guy you'd see grabbing coffee next door.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: They blend in and the related myth all bron no brain, that's.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Out too completely false myth number six. Maybe these jobs
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: require intense analytical skills, complex planning, quick thinking under pressure,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: whether you're dealing with demolitions, calculations, deep sea dive profiles,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: advanced communications, or just navigating complex ethical dilemmas on target
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I right.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: One source mentioning PhDs in the ranks. Yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: One commander recounted having multiple PhD holders among his senior
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: enlisted NCOs. The core requirement, the absolute differentiator that gets
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: you through selection isn't your bench press max. It's what
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: they describe as the mental ability to just ignore everything
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: in your body trying to make you stop that unwavering grid.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Where do these units typically find people who might have
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: that grid? What are the main recruitment pools?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Well, it varies. Delta Force primarily recruits from within the
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: US Army, typically drawing heavily from experienced Green Berets, special Forces,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: and rangers. They're looking for maturity, proven skills, and operational experience.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: In the sas mainly recruits from within the UK military,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: predominantly from the Parachute Regiment and the Royal Marines, again
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: selecting individuals already accustomed to demanding physical standards and military discipline.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: We're right internationally, Like Israel, sayer, the not call St
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: McCall is interesting.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Recruitment is voluntary, open to conscripts choosing to try out,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: but the selection process starts with the gibbush. It's this
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: notoriously grueling selection camp that lasts several days with almost
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: no sleep, and.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: They're watching for more than just physical ability during the gifts.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Oh ye oh yeah, it's under constant observation by doctors
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: and psychologists. They're not just looking for who quits physically.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: They're identifying specific psychological markers. Who maintains cognitive function under
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: extreme stress and sleep deprivation, Who displays leadership and teamwork
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: even when utterly exhausted, and critically, who maintains high moral
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: integrity when pressured to cut corners or cheat to succeed.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It's a deep psychological assessment from the start.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's walk through some of these specific selection processes
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the essays endurance phase. This is the legendary first hurdle,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: right with that insane attrition rate.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: It is regularly above ninety percent attrition. Phase one endurance.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: It lasts about four weeks and takes place in the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Brecon Beacons and Whale's notoriously bleak, wet, difficult terrain.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: What are they actually doing?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: It's designed to test absolute physical and mental stamina to
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the breaking point. Candidates navigate between checkpoints carrying heavy packs
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: or burgins. Standard weight is often fifty five pounds plus
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: weapon and water, increasing over the weeks. And here's the kicker.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: They get absolutely no feedback from the directing staff on
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: their navigation.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: No feedback, so you don't know if you're on the
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: right track.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You have no idea. You could be miles off course,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: walking in circles for hours, freezing cold, soaking, wet, and
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: utterly exhausted. The staff just observed. The psychological pressure of
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: that uncertainty, combined with the physical toll, is immense. It's
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: designed to make you quit.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And this phase culminates in the Long Drag.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: The Long Drag or endurance march. It's the final test
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: of this phase. A brutal forty mile trek. That's sixty
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: four kilometers carrying that fifty five pound Burgen plus rifle.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: It has to be completed in under twenty four hours,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: navigating across extremely difficult trackless terrain. Completing this is a
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: huge milestone.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: If you sometimes survive that, What's next jungle.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Phase two jungle training. If you pass endurance, you're flown
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: out to typically Burnei, Belize or sometimes Malaysia. The focus shifts.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: It's less about ren durance and more about discipline, field
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: craft and sustainability.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Can you keep yourself in your gear functional exactly?
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Can you maintain yourself, your weapon, your kit in good
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: working order during long range patrols incredibly debilitating conditions, extreme heat, humidity,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: constant wetness, insects, disease. It tests your personal administration and
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: discipline under relentless environmental.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Stress and Phase three back in the UK.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Phase three is Escape, Evasion and Tactical Questioning TQ. This
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: happens back in the UK. It covers a range of skills,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: including advanced combat driving, operating foreign weapons. But the Core
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: is a combat survival and resistance program conceptually similar to
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: the US military's Series School survival, evasion, resistance, escape so.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: They get hunted, they do.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Candidates are put on the run in the countryside and
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: hunted by other military units, including helicopters. If captured, they're
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: put through a simulated prisoner of war scenario. This includes
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: resistance to interrogation techniques, handling isolations, sensory deprivation, and ns
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: immense psychological stress. It's designed to prepare them for the
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: worst case scenario.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And the sources mentioned live fire in the Killing House.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, a critical part of SaaS training, particularly for the
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: counter terrorism rule, involves extremely realistic close quarters battle CQB
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: scenarios conducted in their famous killing House, and according to
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: multiple sources, these drills are sometimes conducted using live ammunition,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: with fellow candidates acting as potential hostages or bystanders.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Wow. That requires an unbelievable level of trust and skill.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: It's the absolute peak of high risk training. Total reliance
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: on skill, discipline, and trust in your teammates. Passing all
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: these phases gets you the coveted sand colored beret.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, Now, Delta force selection structurally similar drawing on beckwith
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: SaaS experience.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Very similar in its initial phase. Yeah, Beckwith adapted the
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: SaaS model. Delta selection starts with about four weeks of
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: intense land navigation courses conducted day and night.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Ruck's getting heavier, time limits getting shorter.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Exactly constantly increasing rough distances and weights, while the allowed
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: time to complete the course gets progressively shorter. All this
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: is happening while candidates are under intense scrutiny from the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: selection cadre and undergoing a battery of psychological evaluations and
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: aptitude tests. They're looking for physical endurance and mental agility
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: under pressure, and.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Delta also has its own version of the long drag
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it does.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: The physical culmination is notoriously known as the Long Walk.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: It's also a forty mile rock march designed as the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: ultimate dut check to eliminate anyone lacking that absolute mental resolve.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: The specific time limit for Delta's Long Walk is generally
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: kept classified, but it's understood to be exceptionally demanding.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: If you make it through the long Walk, you're not
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: in Delta yet. Right there's phase two.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Correct surviving selection just gets you invited to the Operator
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Training Course or OTC. This is where the real specialized
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: training begins.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: And this is highly secretive.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Extremely candidates effectively go off the grid for six months
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: or more. See curriculum covers an immense range of skills
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: needed to be a Delta operator. Advanced marksmanship and sniping, demolitions,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: high altitude parachuting, helojo hoo, advanced QC VIP protection techniques,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: intelligence gathering and tradecraft, specialized driving, breaching techniques everything.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: But only after completing OTC are they assigned to an
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: assault squadron.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: That's right. Graduation from OTC means you are officially a
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Delta force operator ready to be integrated into one of
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the operational assault squadrons.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Let's switch continents again. Germany's KSK Commando Schpitziaukrefta. Their selection
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: sounds uniquely punishing too, and you need to pass another
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: tough course before you even start KSK selection.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's a key point. To even be eligible for
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: KSK selection, candidates must have already successfully completed the standard
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Bundesverer German Runny Commando course, the einzelkempferlair Gang that weads
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: out a lot of people up front.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So the KSK selection itself, it's in two parts.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Main parts for potential combat operators. First, there's a three
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: week physical and psychological assessment phase. Even with pre qualified candidates,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: the pass rate here is only about forty percent.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Forty percent pass the first part.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Then then comes a grueling three month endurance phase. This
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: is where the attrition rate plummets dramatically. The pass rate
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: for this phase drops to only about eight to ten
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: percent of those.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Who started eight to ten percent total pass rate. That's
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: incredibly low. What makes this phase so hard? Hell Week?
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: The centerpiece of the endurance phase is the infamous Hell Week,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: and the name seems appropriate. This is where the training
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: pushes beyond just physical hardship into what sounds like sheer
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: elemental torture.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Can you give us an example, okay?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Picture the scenario described in the sources. Candidates march for
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: miles with full combat gear through treacherous, muddy terrain. Immediately
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: after finishing the march, Utterly exhausted, they are forced to
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: swim across a body of water with temperatures near freezing
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: around one degree celsius, almost hypothermic canitions, and then, while soaking, wet,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: freezing and completely depleted, they have to walk up a
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: steep mountain carrying all their wet gear plus a heavy
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: fifty kilogram log amongst the team. The physical toll is
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: designed to push the human body right to the edge
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of total shutdown.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: But there's a mental twist to the ksk's hell week,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: isn't there the test afterwards?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is what really sets the KSK selection apart.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: According to the analysis, immediately following that extreme physical punishment,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: when candidates are arguably at their absolute lowest EBB physically
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: and mentally, they have to sit down and take a
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: complex written test.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: A written test why.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: It's designed specifically to assess their problem solving abilities and
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: critical thinking skills under extreme exhaustion. Can you still think clearly,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: perform complex calculations, make sound judgments when your body is
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: screaming at you to stop, when you're starving and freezing.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: It's a deliberate test of that mental override capability.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: That's fascinating. Training the brain to function in the worst
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: possible conditions.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and if you somehow pass all of that. KSK
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: candidates then embark on a massive two to three year
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: training cycle. They attend over seventeen different specialized schools and
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: courses around the world. Arctic warfare training in Norway, Mountain
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: warfare in Austria, jungle training in Belize, desert training in
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: the US, specialized driving, diving, parachuting. It's incredibly comprehensive.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Okay. One more stop on this training tour Israel Seyahet Muttkaal.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Their training is also long, about two.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Years around two years, yes, with a heavy emphasis on
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: skills crucial for their primary mission, deep reconnaissance and intelligence gathering,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: so intense training and camouflage, stealth, long range navigation, demolitions, CQC,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: and importantly intelligence tradecraft.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: What's unique about their navigation training A.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Key feature is the emphasis on long range solo navigation exercises.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Unlike many conventional IDF units, where navigation is often done
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: in pairs for safety and redundancy, sarahed At METCLL requires
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: its candidates to master navigating complex terrain entirely alone, sometimes
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: for days.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Why solo.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: It builds absolute self reliance, the ability to operate deep
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: behind enemy lines, potentially cut off without relying on anyone
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: else for basic survival and mission completion. It reinforces that
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: deep reconnaissance mindset, and they.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Also have a specific phase dealing with capture similar to
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: this ASTQ phase they do.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Recruits undergo a brutal two week course specifically designed to
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: test their mental fortitude against the stresses of captivity. This
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: involves a surprise mock kidnapping, being held in simulated harsh
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: prison conditions, undergoing intense interrogations, facing threats, psychological manipulation, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: even staged physical violence.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Preparing them for the absolute worst if a deep recon
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: mission goes wrong.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Precisely, given their high risk intelligence gathering role, capture is
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: a very real possibility, they must be mentally prepared to
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: endure and resist.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: So wrapping up this section on training, yeah, it really
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: comes back to that core idea, doesn't it. It's not
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: just about being physically fit.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Not at all. These selection processes are crucibles designed to
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: identify individuals who are, as the sources say, built different,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: not necessarily genetically superior in a physical sense, but possessing
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: or capable of developing that profound trained mental ability to
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: override pain, fear, exhaustion, and doubt. That deep psychological conditioning
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: is the true common denominator across all these elite units.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: It's what makes them Tier one.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: All right. We've covered a sort of foundational units sas Delta,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: DVGRU and their intense training. Now let's broaden the scope
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: and look at some other major global players, their unique roles,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and importantly, some of the significant controversies that have surrounded them.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Starting with Rushes spetsnas right spetsnas. The term itself is
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: probably one of the most well misunderstood in the military world.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: It's just a contraction really, meaning special designations SPATSI, ALNOI
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and nas naikini. It's often used as a catch all
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: term for dozens of different units across very Russian military
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: branches and even security services like the FSB and GRU.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: So not all spets naws are created equal.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Not at all. Many of these units are actually more
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: comparable to, say, the US seventy fifth Ranger Regiment elite
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: light infantry primarily focused on reconnaissance and direct action support
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: for larger conventional forces. The true Russian special forces asset
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: operating at that strategic Tier one level is generally considered
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: to be the Special Operations Forces Command, the KSSO. They
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: were established more recently, modeled somewhat on Western SOF.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Commands and their traditional role, their doctrine shaped by the
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Cold War.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Historically, yes, the core doctrine for Soviet spetsnaws during the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Cold War was deep battlefield reconnaissance, sabotage behind NATO lines
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: and specifically targeting command and control nodes nuclear delivery systems,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: basically shattering the enemy's nervous system in the opening hours
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: of a conflict. But how does that translate today? What
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: really distinguishes them, say, from the Western counter terrorism model?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Crucial question. Our sources consistently highlight a profound political dimension
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: to how Russia employs its elite forces, particularly the KSSO.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: They seem highly geared towards what's called political warfare and
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: carrying out covert active measures.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Active measures like disinformation assassinations.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: It encompasses a broad range disinformation propaganda, fomenting unrest, assassinations,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: cyber warfare, and using military presence for political signaling. It
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: reflects Moscow strategic approach, which often blurs the lines between
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: conventional conflict politics, intelligence operations, and information warfare. KSSO forces
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: are often used as deniable tools for achieving geopolitical objectives
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: below the threshold of open war.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Can you give an example of them being used as
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: political tokens?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: A clear example cited is their reported deployment to places
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: like Venezuela or parts of Africa. Their physical presence there,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: even if their direct combat role is limited, serves multiple purposes.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: It signals Russian resolve, challenges US influence, props up Allied regimes,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: and acts as a high profile demonstration of Russia's global
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: reach and willingness to intervene. They're deployed to create geopolitical
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: friction and project power, sometimes as much as for actual fighting.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: And their reason deployments really highlight this political mission set.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Don't they absolutely? Look at Crimea in twenty fourteen, KSSO
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: operators were almost certainly the core of the infamous Polite
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: People or little Green Men, those unmarked, highly professional soldiers
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: who executed a swift, bloodless coupd demain, securing key infrastructure
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: like airports and government buildings without firing many shots, effectively
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: paralyzing Ukrainian resistance and paving the way for annexation.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And in Eastern Ukraine the dawnbas.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: There, they've operated more as deniable assets, training separatist forces,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: providing leadership, but also, according to numerous reports and analyzes,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: likely being responsible for the targeted assassinations of certain troublesome
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: local militia commanders who didn't toe Moscow's line. These deaths
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: are then officially blamed on quy give to sow internal
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: discord and maintain control.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Over the proxies in Syria.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: In Syria, their role has been multifaceted, providing high level
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: security for Russian commanders and key Syrian figures, conducting direct
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: action raids against high value targets, but also crucially acting
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: as forward observers directing precision Russian air strikes and artillery
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: fire with lethal effect. They're a key enabler for Russia's
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: conventional power projection there.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's shift to Germany's KSK. We talked about their
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: brutal selection. Their origin story is also quite telling. Wasn't
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it born from failure? It was.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: The KSK was formed relatively recently in nineteen ninety six,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: and it was a direct response to a perceived failure
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: by the German state, specifically the failure to evacuate German
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: citizens safely during the Rwandan genocide in nineteen ninety four.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Germany realized it didn't have the right tool for that.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Kind of job exactly. Neither their regular police forces nor
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: their standard paratroopers had the specific training, transport capabilities, or
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: legal mandate for that kind of high threat, non combat
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: and evacuation operation NEO in a chaotic irregular warfare environment.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: The KSK was created to fill that gap, modeled explicitly
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: after established units like the British SS, Germany's own GSG
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: nine Police Unit and USO COM and their mission.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Profile is standard Tier one stuff covert ops, CT, hostage rescue.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, their on PAP per mission set aligns perfectly with
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: other Tier one units covert operations, counter terrorism, especially German
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: interests abroad, hostage rescue, direct action, special reconnaissance. However, the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: KSK has faced massive systemic internal problems that have seriously
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: damaged its reputation and operational standing.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: This requires careful reporting based on the sources. The extremism issue.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, we have to be impartial here and report with
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: the sources state. In June twenty twenty, the German Defense
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: minister at the time and a great cramp, Caerenbauer, announced
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: the partial disbandment of the KSK. This was due to
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: findings of growing far right extremism within the ranks and
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: what was described as a to toxic leadership culture that
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: had allowed it to fester.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Partially disbanding an elite unit like the KSK that's an
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: extraordinary step. What led to that toxic culture?
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: The analysis point to several factors. Years of operating with
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: a high degree of autonomy and secrecy, perhaps insufficient external oversight,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: and an internal culture that possibly prioritized its own warrior
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: ethos and loyalty over accountability to democratic norms and broader
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: military discipline. This created fertile ground for extremist ideologies to
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: take root and spread, apparently unchecked by internal leadership, and the.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Result was dissolving an entire company.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: The most drastic measure was the complete dissolution of the
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: ksk's second Commando company. It was deemed institutionally compromised and irredeemable.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Other reforms were mandated across the unit, aiming to increase
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: oversight and integration with the regular Bundiswar.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: And this wasn't just a sudden discovery, right, There were
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: earlier warning signs correct.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: This decision followed earlier alarming reports. For instance, back in
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, details emerged about an alleged plot involved some
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: KSK soldiers along with others in a wider network, who
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: were apparently hoarding weapons and planning potential attacks, including possibly
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: murdering prominent left leaning German politicians and targeting immigrants on
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: a hypothetical day X scenario of societal collapse.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: It's a chilling reminder that for these elite units whose
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: effectiveness relies so heavily on internal cohesion, discipline, and absolute
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: political trust, internal compromise can be just as dangerous as
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: any external enemy.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. It underscores that maintaining democratic accountability and rooting out
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: extremism is critical for the legitimacy and effectiveness of any
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: special operations force in a democratic society. The KSK situation
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: shows the extreme measures required when that trust is broken.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, Next up Israel Sayer at My Call the secretive legend. Yeah,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: And interestingly, as we mentioned, they also use the motto
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: who dares wins That s connection.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Again yes, directly modeled after the ses. It cements that
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: global lineage originating from Sterling's vision. Sarah at Muttcall is
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: renowned for its secrecy even within Israel, and.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Their primary roles are.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Primarily deep reconnaissance and strategic intelligence gathering behind enemy lines.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: That's their bread and butter. They also specialize in foreign
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: counter terrorism and hostage rescue operations domestic CT missions inside Israel.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Are typically handled by the Yamum, a specialist police unit.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Mutkaal's focus is generally external.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Their operational history is filled with legendary missions, and Tebbe
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six is probably the most.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Famous operation Thunderbolt. Yes, the Inntebi raid is studied globally
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: in military academies. The sheer audacity, the long range planning,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: the execution, it's remarkable even.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Today can you recap the key elements of Intebe?
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Certainly after Palestinian and German terrorists hijacked in air France
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: flight and diverted it to Antebe Airport in Uganda, holding
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: over one hundred Israeli and Jewish passengers hostage, Sarah at
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Muttcall was tasked with the rescue. They flew four Sea
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: one thirty Hercules transport planes over twenty five hundred miles,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: mostly at night, undetected across hostile territory.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: And the deception plan at the airport.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Was key, absolutely critical. To achieve surprise, the assault team
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: landed and drove off the C one thirties and vehicles
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: designed to mimic a Ugandan military convoy. The lead vehicle
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: was a black Mercedes Benz deliberately chosen because it resembled
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the car often used by the Ugandan dictator at the time, Ediamine.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: So they bluffed their way past the guards.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: They did, they convinced the initial Ugandan centuries and the
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: control tower that they were an official motorcade, buying them
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: precious minutes to drive directly to the terminal building where
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: the hostages were held. They stormed the building, killed the terrorists,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and managed to rescue one hundred and two of the
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: one hundred and six hostages.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: An incredible success, though tragically the unit commander, Yoni Netnyah.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Who was killed, Yes, Lieutenant Colonel Yonatan Netnaho, the older
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: brother of Benjamin Netna who was the only Israeli military casualty.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Three hostages were also killed during the firefight, and one
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: elderly hostage who had been taken to a hospital earlier,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: was later murdered on Amans orders. But overall it was
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: a stunning operational success against overwhelming odds.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: And this capability for high stakes surgical foreign action it's
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: still current right the reported twenty twenty.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Four Seria raid YES sources reported on a mission in
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: September twenty twenty four targeting an alleged underground Iranian built
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: factory in Syria producing precision missile components.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: What were the reported details of that raid?
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: According to those reports, MECALL operators inserted via helicopter, possibly
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: repelling down. They engaged and killed around eighteen guards protecting
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: the facility. Used precise demolitions to destroy the sophisticated manufacturing
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: equipment without leveling the entire structure, and crucially seized sensitive
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: documents and components before extracting cleanly.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: That speaks volumes about their current capabilities intelligence driven direct action,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: technical exploitation, minimal collateral damage exactly.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It showcases their continued relevance for complex X, high risk
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: missions focused on countering strategic threats in the region.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Another fascinating aspect of Sarah at McCall is its outsized
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: political influence within Israel.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Immense influence. A remarkable number of Mutt Call veterans have
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: gone on to hold the highest positions in Israeli military
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: and political life. This includes three former Prime Ministers Iherd Barack,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Benjamin Netchunyahu and F. Tally Bennett, as well as numerous
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: chiefs of staff of the IDF and heads of intelligence agencies.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Why such influence, It's likely a combination of factors. The
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: unit attracts highly intelligent, motivated individuals. The training instills leadership,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: strategic thinking, risk assessment, and service in muttcall carries immense
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: prestige within Israeli society. That elite network and shared experience
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: translates directly into political and institutional power later in their careers.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, Finally, in this section, let's turn back to the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: US and dv Greusial Team six. As the unit often
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: tasked with the highest profile, highest stakes missions, they've also
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: faced significant controversies and scrutiny.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: It seems almost inevitable given the nature of their work.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Their core missions, counter terrorism against high value targets like
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: bin laden, hostage rescue in denied areas, counter proliferation of
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: WMDs are inherently fraught with risk, ambiguity, and the potential
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: for things to go wrong, sometimes tragically.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: The accidental death of the British aid worker Linda Norgrove
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: in Afghanistan in twenty ten is a stark example.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: It is during a hostage rescue attempt by DVGRU Norgrove
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: was killed. Initial reports suggested she might have been killed
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: by a suicide vest detonated by her captors. However, subsequent
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: investigations revealed she was actually killed by a fragmentation grenade
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: thrown by one of the rescuing seals during the chaotic
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: close quarters fight, and.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: There was criticism about the initial reporting and delays in
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: acknowledging the grenade.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, the investigation was critical of the failure of the
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: seals involved to immediately report the grenade throw up the
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: chain of command, which delayed accurate understanding of the event.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: It led to disciplinary actions and highlighted the immense pressure
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: on operators to missions, but also raised questions about transparency
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: and accountability when blue on blue or civilian casualties occur
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: in highly classified operations.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Then there was the death of Army staff Sergeant Logan
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Melgar and Malli in twenty seventeen. That wasn't combat related.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: No, that was a different kind of tragedy, exposing internal
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: cultural issues. Staff Sergeant Melgar, a green Beret sharing housing
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: with BVGRU members and Marine raiders in Mali, died from
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: injuries sustained during what was described as a hazing incident
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: gone wrong. Several DVGRU members and marines faced criminal charges,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: including negligent homicide and obstruction of justice.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: What did that incident reveal?
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: It exposed potentially severe strains within the elite SOF community,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: issues related to conduct, discipline, alcohol abuse, and a possible
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: breakdown in leadership and oversight, particularly in remote high autonomy
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: deployment settings. It raised serious questions about whether the intense
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: operational tempo and secrecy could sometimes foster toxic subcultures if
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: not rigorously managed.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: And most recently, sources detailed a previously top secret mission
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: involving North Korea back in twenty nineteen with serious consequences.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, reports surfaced about a highly classified DVGRU mission aimed
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: at infiltrating North Korea by sea from a submarine. The
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: objective was reportedly to plant a sophisticated long term listening
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: device near a location frequented by Kim Jong Unn.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: What went wrong?
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: During the extremely risky coastal insertion phase, the seal team
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: encountered a small North Korean civilian boat the source estate
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: it was crewed by unarmed fishmen or shellfish divers. Fearing
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: immediate compromise of the entire sensitive operation. If the civilians
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: raised and alarm, the seals reportedly opened fire, killing the boat.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Crew, and the mission was aborted.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, due to the engagement and the potential exposure. The
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: mission was immediately aborted before the listening device could be planted.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: The seal team exfiltrated back to the submarine.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: And the controversy extended to the reporting of this incident.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: According to the reports, details of this mission, particularly the
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: lethal engagement with civilians, were not fully disclosed to key
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: congressional oversight committees for several years, potentially violating reporting requirements
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: for covert actions. This raised major questions about accountability, oversight,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: and the legal frameworks governing the use of lethal force
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: in highly classified operations outside declared war zones. These incidents
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: collectively showed the immense operational, ethical, and political complexities and
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: consequences that inevitably accompany Tier one activities at the sharpest
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: end of national security. Okay, so we spent this whole
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: deep dive looking at the history, the structures, the brutal training,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: the complex missions, the controversies of these defining Tier one units.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Now we kind of circle back to that question that
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: always comes up, the one that probably brought some listeners here.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Who is actually the best.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: And if we connect all the dots. From our sources,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: especially hearing from the professionals within that world, the answer
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: seems to be, well, they mostly think it's a pointless question.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: That's overwhelmingly the sentiment. Yes. The sources, particularly those quoting
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: operators or senior commanders, explicitly state that trying to definitively
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: say Delta is better than the SaaS or vice versa,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: is meaningless. They are both incredibly formidable, cutting edge organizations,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: and because of that shared lineage and the constant cross
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: pollination through exchange programs, they largely mirror each other's core
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: capabilities and operational standards.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Many of the professionals quoted just dismiss the comparison entirely.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: They see it as something for you know, armchair generals
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: or video gamers exactly.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: They often note that in some hypothetical head to head matchup,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: the outcome would probably come down to specific circumstances, luck, geography,
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the mission set, and the personal attributes of the individuals
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: involved on that particular day. It's an interesting thought experiment maybe,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: but not a practical military question. They spend time debating, and.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: The reality on the ground is they work together constantly
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: The operational reality is one of profound camaraderie and deep
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: professional respect. They train together, deploy together, share intelligence and
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: tactics constantly. One source mentioned operators would be more likely
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: to grab a beer and laugh at the idea of
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: being seriously pitted against each other in some kind of competition.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: They share that unique experience, that risk profile. It probably
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: unites them more than national flags separate them at that level.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I think that's very true. There's a shared culture and
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: understanding that transcends nationality when you operate at that Tier
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: one level.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the professionals dismiss the who's best questions? Yeah,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: But putting that aside for a moment, there are clear
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: sourced arguments presented in analyses for why US Tier one
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: units DELTA, dvg U, the Seals more broadly, might be
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: considered dominant in certain aspects by some observers.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: There are, and these arguments usually boil down to two
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: main factors, resources and operational tempo.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Resources, meaning the sheer.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Scale of the US military budget it's unparalleled globally. This
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: provides funding for training opportunity in literally every conceivable geographical
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: and climate scenario. Access to the most advanced often classified technology, weapons, communications, surveillance,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: GEER and essentially endless support assets dedicated aviation like the
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: one hundred and sixtieth URAR, Global Logistics, Massive Intelligence infrastructure.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: The scale is just.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Different, and the second factor operational tempo experience exactly.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: The sources point out that due to America's global role
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: and its involvement in numerous conflicts and counter terrorism campaigns
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: pretty much continuously since the Cold War ended, us SOF
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: units simply have more recent sustain high intensity combat experience
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: on a scale that few other nations can match.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: They're constantly deployed, constantly conducting high value targeting missions, hostage rescues,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: so they're constantly refining their TTPs tactics, techniques, and procedures
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: based on real world feedback.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: That's the argument that constant operational cycle provides a level
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: of proven, practical battlefield experience that's hard to replicate purely
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: through train exercises.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: And there's also the point about knowledge transfer former seals
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: being hired globally as.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Consultants, right the fact that former us SOOF operators, particularly seals,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: are reportedly the most sought after consultants globally to help
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: train or stand up other nations special forces units. That's
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: seen by some as evidence of the high value placed
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: internationally on the American training pipeline and the combat lessons learned.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, so those are strong arguments for US dominance in
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: terms of resources and recent experience, but the arguments for
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: the SAS and the UK lineage they remain incredibly powerful too, right,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: resting on history and foundational influence.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, you cannot overstate the SAS's role as the progenitor.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: They wrote the original playbook. Nearly all the world's most
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: respected special forces units, including Delta Force, Sarah met Call, Australia, SSR,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: New Zealand's and ZSAS, base their fundamental selections, structure and
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: small team tactical models on the SAS. Being the original
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: author grants them a unique enduring prestige and influence.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: And we shouldn't forget the UK's maritime counterpart, the SBS
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Special Boat Service.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Definitely not the SBS often operates in the shadow of
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: the ss but many insiders and analysts consider them arguably
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: the world's premiere maritime special operations force. They have a
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: history of successful operations dating back to nineteen forty, but
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: they maintain extreme secrecy, often deliberately allowing their operations to
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: be attributed to the SAS to protect their own lower profile.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Their capability, especially in maritime, counter terrorism and amphibious operations,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: is considered absolutely top tier.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: So the Who's best debate remains complex. But beyond the
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: UK and US, there are other units consistently mentioned as
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: operating at that same elite tier one level. It's not
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: just a two horse.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Race, not at all. Operational excellence is definitely not restricted
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: to just those two nations. Several others are consistently cited.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Like Poland's GROM.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Yes Grom which means Thunder and Polish. They have a
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: fascinating lineage tracing back to Polish commandos the Silent who
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: trained in Britain and parachuted into Nazi occupied Poland during WWI.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: GROM was formally established in the early nineties with significant
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: US assistance initially.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: And they've earned a massive reputation within.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: NATO, huge reputation. They're widely praised by both US and
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: UK Special Operations forces for their professionalism, their skill, particularly
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: in direct action and counter terrorism, and their ability to
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: operate effectively but quietly, there are even persistent rumors mentioned
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: in some sources that US Navy seals occasionally traveled to
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Poland specifically for joint training with GROM.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Which is a massive compliment in that world, suggest GROM
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: has maybe refined certain niche skills that even DVG or
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: U wants to learn from.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: It's a very rare thing, and speaks volumes about Grom's capabilities.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Then there's Canada's JTF two Joint Task Force.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Two JTF two is another unit held in extremely high regard.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: They are reportedly the only foreign special operations unit that
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: has been formally inducted into the American Tier one ranking system,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: placing them alongside Delta and DVGU in terms of perceived
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: capability and interoperability by the US military.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: How do they earn that status.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Through sustained proven performance and joint operations, particularly in Afghanistan
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: and other theaters. They are known experts in operating in
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: extremely challenging environments, especially frozen terrain and mountain warfare, reflecting
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Canada's geography, and they are legendary for their extreme secrecy.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Members are reportedly forbidden from even telling their immediate families
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: that they serve in JTF two. Operational security is paramount and.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: One more often mentioned from a different region, the Pakistan
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Special Services Group the SSG.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, the SSG. They have a reputation built on incredible
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: bravery and almost unbelievable physical endurance standards. Their selection process
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: is rumored to have only about a five percent completion rate.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: It reportedly includes a grueling thirty six mile march that
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: must be completed in just twelve hours carrying a full
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: combat load.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Thirty six miles and twelve hours. That's faster than a
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: forced march base.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: It's an incredibly demanding standard. And there's an anecdote sited
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: in some sources that speaks to their combat effectiveness and resolve.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: During operations against the Taliban in Pakistan's tribal areas, a
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: contingent of just one hundred SSG operators reportedly cleared three
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: significant towns that were held by an estimated two thousand
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: entrenched Taliban fighters and they did it in only two days.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Wow. That kind of speed and decisiveness against those odds. Yeah,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: it definitely suggests a Tier one capability driven by intense
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: training and maybe a different kind of operational mindset.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: It certainly demonstrates remarkable combat power and determination.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: So what does this all mean. When we try to
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: wrap up this who prevails debate, it seems like maybe
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: the real commonality, the thing they all value most is secrecy.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: The ability to operate unseen.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: That seems to be a core shared doctrine, perhaps prioritized
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: above almost everything else. As one source noted specifically about
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Delta Force, many people have never even heard of them,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: which is exactly how a special operations force should be.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Anonymity is a measure of success.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Sayaht MC takes it to an extreme right. Their lack
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: of an official insignia is so well known it almost
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: identifies them.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Paradoxically, yes, among those in the know, the deliberate absence
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: of a unit patch often serves to identify MT Call
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: operators across the board, though the requirement is the same.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Operators must maintain an extremely small digital footprint. They receive
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: constant education on cybersecurity risks and avoiding any kind of
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: loose talk that could compromise operations or reveal capabilities is
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: drilled into them from day one.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: So the ability to just blend in, hide in plane sight,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: operate completely undetected, whether you have a multi billion dollar
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: budget or not. Maybe that is the true shared measure
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: of excellence among all these elite global forces.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: It's certainly a critical component of their effectiveness and mystique.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: And hey, if you listening have enjoyed going beyond infographics
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: today and getting this level of detail on the world's
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: most elite forces, please do take just a moment to
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: hit that five star button on your podcast app. It
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: genuinely helps us reach more people hashtag captag out.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: A final thought, well, that was quite a journey and
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: intensive look hopefully beyond the usual infographics and highlight reels
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: getting into the real engine room of global special operations.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: We traced that common lineage, didn't we all the way
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: back to David Stirling's original sea house concept in the desert.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: We dissected the highly specialized structures those squadrons, troops and
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: wings within the US and UK systems, and.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: We walked through the sheer agony, both mental and physical,
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: of the selection pipelines in places like the UK, the US, Germany, Israel,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: understanding what it takes even try to join these ranks.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: We highlighted how those shared global mission sets, counter terrorism,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: deep reconnaissance, high value targeting drive these units towards remarkable
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: collaboration like we saw with Task Force Black.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: But we also had to acknowledge the difficult side, the
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: political vulnerabilities, the controversies, the tragedies that sometimes accompany this
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: incredibly high stakes work, from the ksk's internal extremism issues
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: to dvgru's mission mishaps and the resulting questions about accountability
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: and transparency.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: And through it all, the consensus among the professionals seems clear.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Arguing about national supremacy is kind of an outdated concept
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: in this very specific realm. What truly matters are the
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: attributes of the individual operators, the quality of their training
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: and leadership, and increasingly that seamless interoperability needed to tackle
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: complex transnational threats that don't respect borders.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: So will leave you, our listeners, with a final provocative
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: thought to Mollover. Given this heavy reliance we've seen on
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: interforce exchanges, on joint task forces, on shared training models
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: that almost all trace their intellectual DNA back to that
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: original SaaS model from nineteen forty one, uh huh is
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: the future of Tier one warfare less about which nation
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: is dominant and more about achieving a kind of perfect
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: seamless global interoperability, a system where the greatest potential liability
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: isn't necessarily the external enemy, but rather the internal risk,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the risk of cultural failures, political compromises, or ethical lapses
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: within one unit, potentially undermining the effectiveness and just as importantly,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: the public trust required for the entire global special operations
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: enterprise to succeed.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, that's a heavy thought to end on something definitely
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: worth considering.