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Hamster Book Club - Goth Opera Audio (with Finish Big!) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the Hamster Book Club.
• 0:04
  And finish big. And Finish big Today is a
• 0:07
  crossover event. We're bringing together the best
• 0:10
  and brightest minds from podcast Fear.
• 0:13
  So I don't know why we've invited Luke and Andrew along.
• 0:18
  No, we have got two fabulous book clubs today.
• 0:22
  Mr. Luke Sims Jenkin. Hello, Luke.
• 0:25
  Hey, how's it going? You call me drinking coffee.
• 0:27
  That's very professional. Thank you.
• 0:30
  Very unsociable hour, aren't you?
• 0:33
  Yes, you said best and brightest.
• 0:35
  I'm like, I don't know if I'm very bright at the moment.
• 0:39
  And we also have address. So sad.
• 0:41
  The last time we did this, we were together.
• 0:43
  Yes, yes. No, wait, we did 10 little
• 0:46
  aliens last time, do we? Yes.
• 0:49
  I don't know. I don't know what day of the
• 0:50
  week it is really. The time before that, we also
• 0:53
  have the lovely Andrew Bassey with us and it's Avengers
• 0:57
  assembled again because we covered the story we're going to
• 1:01
  talk about today as a book recently adapted as a Big Finish
• 1:06
  audio. And that is why we are here
• 1:08
  today to see just how this translates across.
• 1:12
  But before we do, guys, I've got a very important icebreaker
• 1:17
  question for both of you. As usual, OK.
• 1:21
  And please be honest. So the the Big Finish website
• 1:26
  migration, how do you think that's going?
• 1:30
  Let's come across to Luke first. I think it, I think it's speed
• 1:34
  up my, my boldness. I yeah.
• 1:38
  So I can't, I can't log into the app still.
• 1:42
  And some of my, some of my purchases aren't, aren't yet
• 1:47
  there on the, on the Big Finish website itself.
• 1:51
  And I know what everyone listening is thinking.
• 1:53
  They're like, just reset your password because I'm a big dummy
• 1:57
  who's never thought of doing that.
• 2:01
  I've done it and it's still like, Nah, something went wrong.
• 2:07
  You run out of numbers. Now to do a password.
• 2:10
  That's it. Every combination has been, has
• 2:12
  been utilized. There's there's no numbers left.
• 2:14
  I have to go to π next. So can we say sort of mild
• 2:18
  frustration towards apoplexic in your corner?
• 2:23
  Yeah, this first happened to me like I've I've it was before my
• 2:28
  morning coffee, I guess so Charity, my wife had to maybe
• 2:32
  hear a bit more grumpiness. It was like, yeah, so I'm.
• 2:37
  I'm very being very polite now my wife's going to listen back
• 2:40
  to this. Like, that's not how it was.
• 2:41
  You were like a rage in there, but.
• 2:45
  Your wife has to live up to her name and listen to you whinging
• 2:48
  about the Big Finish website. And Andrew, how are you getting
• 2:53
  on with the with the latest website?
• 2:55
  I mean, the it's atrocious, isn't it?
• 3:00
  It's, it's such a terrible, terrible launch of a new
• 3:04
  product. And I do really feel for them
• 3:06
  because clearly there is something very wrong going on
• 3:09
  behind the scenes. And they're, they're a small
• 3:11
  company. There's not many people working
• 3:13
  there and it must be an absolute nightmare for them.
• 3:16
  But yeah, it's, it's not good. But I'm not a massive Big Finish
• 3:22
  listener, so, and I've still got the old app and I haven't
• 3:26
  preordered anything. So to be honest, it hasn't
• 3:28
  really affected me. And I still had goth opera, so I
• 3:31
  could listen to that. But yeah, just seeing, yeah, how
• 3:37
  the state that it's still in. Yeah, not good.
• 3:40
  I love how there hasn't been a new Big Finish podcast since the
• 3:45
  launch. I think Nick is on holiday, so
• 3:48
  obviously all that positive feedback that they usually read
• 3:51
  doesn't need to be read out conveniently.
• 3:54
  All right, the App Store reviews, it's about 51 star
• 3:58
  reviews. And that's all to say.
• 4:00
  I mean, I, I really feel for them as well and like, but you
• 4:03
  said you've got to give them like a week, right?
• 4:05
  But people have given them a week and it's still clearly not
• 4:09
  where it should be. I have to say as well, your
• 4:13
  dog's absolutely appalled by. How could you hear that?
• 4:18
  Please. Yeah, she really wants that new
• 4:22
  3rd Doctor sees, and she's sitting there with her Thor
• 4:25
  trying to refresh that. I'm not suggesting that your dog
• 4:29
  isn't very smart, but perhaps that they are going for canines
• 4:32
  as a general audience for the fur dog.
• 4:34
  No, I'm going to shut up right now.
• 4:36
  That cover of that new one coming up looks really good with
• 4:38
  like through the Cypher man's eye and it's quite cool.
• 4:41
  Well, that's just the cover though.
• 4:42
  That ain't the project. Yeah, I'm just saying about the
• 4:44
  cover. Well, do you have a question
• 4:47
  about audio adaptations, which is what we're talking about
• 4:50
  today? Well, yeah, I mean, I really
• 4:53
  like that range. I think it's, there should be
• 4:56
  more of them. I'm, I'm glad this one came
• 4:58
  along, but I'm sad that it doesn't seem like there's going
• 5:00
  to be any more. But yeah, I was.
• 5:03
  I've always been excited whenever there's been an
• 5:05
  announcement of an adaptation one, usually because then I
• 5:09
  don't have to read the book and it's there acted in front of me.
• 5:14
  But also some of these books aren't, you know, readily
• 5:16
  available. So it's another way of enjoying
• 5:19
  the story. Well, also, could I throw the
• 5:21
  question out to everybody because the icebreaker question
• 5:24
  really can't be. How shit is the Big Finish
• 5:26
  website? I just thought we'd start there.
• 5:28
  It was. Do you like the audio
• 5:30
  adaptations and would like, do you do you think they're better
• 5:34
  or worse than the books usually? Before we go into goth opera,
• 5:38
  what's your opinion in general? Let's go into reverse order.
• 5:40
  Let's go to Andrew. Yeah, I think I like the idea of
• 5:45
  them more than I've liked them in practice.
• 5:47
  I think there's a couple of them that I have really liked, but
• 5:51
  often I find they're a bit too long for me and a bit too
• 5:56
  meandering. And I'd kind of, I'd rather
• 5:59
  have, if I'm going to listen to something that's really long,
• 6:02
  I'd rather have an audio book than an audio drama.
• 6:05
  So for me, I'd prefer to just have straight readings of these
• 6:08
  books than than sort of a condensed performed version.
• 6:14
  But I think I'm kind of alone in that I'm an outlier.
• 6:18
  Have you listened to many of them?
• 6:21
  Yeah, I've I've done Love and War, the Gareth Robert what
• 6:25
  Roberts ones which we don't speak of anymore, the Damaged
• 6:30
  Goods, Nightshade. Are there any other ones?
• 6:36
  Yeah, I think there's only a couple of them I haven't done.
• 6:38
  And taking sort of goth opera off the table then what do you
• 6:41
  reckon is the best of those you've listened to?
• 6:44
  What would be your recommend for the for the audios?
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  I thought Nightshade was good. I think that was more of a kind
• 6:50
  of, it was, I think it was quite a radical because it was only
• 6:53
  two discs, it wasn't like a three disc one.
• 6:55
  So they really kind of cut the story back and for me I felt
• 6:59
  like that kind of worked better. It kind of got the atmosphere
• 7:01
  and the key points, but it wasn't as sort of slow as some
• 7:05
  of the other ones have been. I always thought you were in a
• 7:08
  totally unique point of view because I know Night Shade is
• 7:10
  the one that sort of bombed. You know everybody.
• 7:12
  How dare they slavishly take out enormous passages from this
• 7:17
  book. What do you think that, Luke?
• 7:19
  What do you think of the audio adaptations?
• 7:22
  I, I love them and it always broke my heart when like we're
• 7:26
  not making any more of these because they don't sell.
• 7:29
  And I'm like, oh, why? Because yeah, that I like, like
• 7:35
  that they did one of the rare books too, like Cold Fusion,
• 7:37
  which is really nice. So it's it's usually an
• 7:40
  expensive book, which shouldn't be expensive because the glue on
• 7:43
  it is really bad. I just looked at it funny when I
• 7:46
  first got it and half the spine came off.
• 7:48
  So it's nice to have the the audio version.
• 7:51
  I think my favorite of them is original scene because I was in
• 7:56
  my well, I was in my top ten books.
• 7:58
  I just love that story. It was Vaughn without saying it
• 8:03
  was Vaughn, but the voice actor was just sorry, spoilers all
• 8:07
  that. They weren't.
• 8:07
  I guess they weren't allowed to mention they.
• 8:09
  Won't read that book now, yeah. It's only 30 years old.
• 8:15
  Oh, God. So, yeah, I really like the
• 8:18
  Ranger. I wish they did more.
• 8:19
  A lot more. Really.
• 8:21
  Yeah. Where's my Grant mark on my
• 8:23
  Yeah, He meant that he got mentioned in in the 6th Doctor
• 8:27
  already. I won't.
• 8:27
  I won't say which one. I don't want to spoil it.
• 8:30
  So. So you're clambering from all
• 8:32
  that? Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:34
  It'd be great. It's it's kind of cool having
• 8:38
  the actual doctors do the do do these books.
• 8:40
  Yeah. I don't know why I feel like
• 8:42
  with the productions of the audio tell me I'm if I'm mad.
• 8:45
  I feel like they go all out. They bring in like fresh
• 8:49
  musicians, they bring in prestige casts, like they go all
• 8:52
  out and and they're usually sort of two to three hours long,
• 8:56
  aren't they? So there's more time to breathe.
• 8:58
  There's more time for the story. There's more time for character
• 9:01
  bits that you usually get from. I'm the opposite of Andrew,
• 9:05
  unfortunately, in that I generally prefer the adaptations
• 9:08
  to the original books. And spoiler, that's no different
• 9:11
  with what we're going to talk about today because I don't
• 9:14
  know, I just there's something about them, but.
• 9:17
  Like if you put them, if you were listening to them sorts of
• 9:20
  and you didn't know they were novel adaptation sort of against
• 9:23
  like the main range or something like that, you they would stand
• 9:26
  out. And I don't know if that's
• 9:28
  because like with the main range, they're being written to
• 9:33
  a format for them like a four parter.
• 9:35
  You got the regulars, maybe like two guest cast and that's what's
• 9:38
  given to the writer to do like a main range average story,
• 9:41
  whereas they're sort of doing the opposite with the novel
• 9:44
  adaptations. You've got this massive amazing
• 9:47
  scape of different characters and different situations and
• 9:51
  they're trying to condense it the other way into like an an
• 9:56
  audio that's got the budget of a big, you know, a standard big
• 10:00
  finish. OK, they are a bit long, but
• 10:03
  maybe that's what it is. I don't know.
• 10:04
  There just always seems to be sort of more plot threads, more
• 10:07
  characters within these adaptations.
• 10:10
  There's just more going on and you can tell that it's been, you
• 10:12
  know, it's come from something else rather than just a just
• 10:15
  write a a standard audio drama. Although even at 3 1/2 hours
• 10:20
  long, yes, 3 1/2 hours long this story, they still managed to
• 10:25
  take out some of the best bits of goth opera.
• 10:27
  But we will get there. OK, Well then let's skip over to
• 10:32
  the story we're going to talk about.
• 10:34
  Oh yeah, OK, I'll do my finished bit.
• 10:37
  So the story we're talking about today is, of course, Goth Opera,
• 10:41
  released in July 2024. Gosh.
• 10:44
  That feels like yesterday. And if you are listening 10
• 10:47
  years in the future, I hope you've got the download from the
• 10:50
  Big Finish website by now. The bitch.
• 10:54
  So obviously this stars Peter Davidson, Sarah Sutton and Janet
• 10:57
  Fielding. This was adapted by Elizabeth
• 11:01
  Miles and directed by David. I'm going to say it wrong,
• 11:05
  right? Oh, I can't say it.
• 11:07
  Mahoney. Mahoney Omani with the music by
• 11:12
  Tim Stemson. Yeah.
• 11:18
  Well, yeah. Are you done?
• 11:19
  Well then? Yeah.
• 11:20
  Thank you very much. Well, then, let's go straight
• 11:22
  over to the guests, I think. And let's ask what did you
• 11:26
  think? How do you think this stacked up
• 11:27
  to the book, Luke? I liked it.
• 11:31
  It it kept some of the things I really wanted them to keep,
• 11:34
  especially like the very, very, very, very, very end.
• 11:40
  I, I might take another think a little more in this in the audio
• 11:44
  adaptation than I do with the book and I I the books.
• 11:52
  It's it's a good book, but it's something special having Sarah
• 11:56
  Sutton perform this because I feel feel like she went all out
• 12:01
  for this one. How close was I when we did the
• 12:04
  book reading by impression of Tegan as a vampire?
• 12:08
  Did I do it all right? It was word perfect.
• 12:15
  What did you think of Andrew? So overall, what did you think
• 12:17
  of this now? You were the the biggest
• 12:20
  champion of the book when we did that episode, so how did this
• 12:24
  compare? Yeah, I really liked it.
• 12:26
  I thought it was a really good adaptation.
• 12:28
  I was actually surprised by how close it was to the book.
• 12:31
  I thought there might be a few more deviations or kind of
• 12:36
  making things fit a big finish a bit more than there were.
• 12:39
  So I was kind of surprised by how expansive it was and how
• 12:43
  they retained, yeah, most of the plot beats of the book.
• 12:49
  Well, I have read the book, but I read it like, I don't know, 15
• 12:54
  years ago. So listening to this, I, I, I
• 12:58
  couldn't remember anything really apart from obviously it's
• 13:01
  quite a. Memorable.
• 13:02
  Book It needs to be a vampire. I know I couldn't remember
• 13:03
  anything else. I really couldn't.
• 13:06
  So it felt sort of quite new to me.
• 13:10
  But no, I I really loved it. I thought it was brilliant.
• 13:14
  Especially Sarah Sutton. She really does.
• 13:18
  Sarah, she's just given, and you can tell that she's, like,
• 13:20
  relishing actually haven't, you know, doing something a bit
• 13:23
  different. Yeah, she's got something to do.
• 13:26
  She's probably, you know, out there in the booth on her own
• 13:30
  with her script. But Leah Davidson and Janet
• 13:31
  Peelding are off. They don't have to bother her.
• 13:33
  She's doing her own thing. It's starring Sarah Saturn.
• 13:37
  Yeah, I was really impressed by her vampire noises like all that
• 13:41
  and all of that stuff she was really going for.
• 13:43
  It when she's trapped in the coffin, yeah, Oh boy.
• 13:48
  They really went to town with that.
• 13:49
  So I, well, I, I got about 2/3 into this and I said to him,
• 13:54
  this is one of the best big finishes I've heard in ages.
• 13:57
  This is absolutely amazing. They all need to be this long.
• 14:00
  Every everyone's getting a chance to do their bit.
• 14:02
  Everyone's getting a chance to act and really have great
• 14:05
  moments. And then about somewhere in the
• 14:07
  last episode I went, this is too long.
• 14:09
  No, they should have lost an hour.
• 14:10
  This is going on too long. I do think 3 1/2 hours is a bit
• 14:15
  too long for an audio but they already took bits out so like
• 14:19
  what else could you possibly take out for this?
• 14:21
  This wouldn't be golf opera anymore.
• 14:23
  I felt like this one though, and I found this hasn't really
• 14:26
  worked for some of them in the past.
• 14:27
  This one really worked well as three episodes and the kind of
• 14:31
  the cliffhangers that they and the way the story moved in.
• 14:35
  The three episodes worked really well.
• 14:37
  Whereas I think with something like Love and War, it just sort
• 14:40
  of the story just stopped after a disk's worth and it didn't
• 14:44
  really feel like it was structured in that way.
• 14:46
  But for this one, maybe it was it was because of the original
• 14:49
  book and the way that, you know, the plot flowed in that.
• 14:52
  But I felt like it it episodically it worked a bit
• 14:55
  better than some of the others. What's the first cliffhanger?
• 15:00
  Nyssa or on Tegan. No, I was hoping you was going
• 15:02
  to act it out for us. Tegan, get away from me.
• 15:09
  No, basically that everyone. Else imagining Tegan in her
• 15:12
  season 20 YouTube. Yes, I was imagining Sarah
• 15:16
  Sutton in her snake dance outfit.
• 15:19
  Don't do that, no. For the whole thing on the
• 15:22
  cover, I know it's not it's. Not on the cover, but in my mind
• 15:25
  that's what they were wearing throughout this whole thing in.
• 15:27
  Her never use that outfit. No, she's wearing her Gothic 90.
• 15:30
  Oh, of course she is. OK, sorry, go look.
• 15:36
  I'm. Not wrong.
• 15:36
  I'm not wrong thinking that snake dance outfit's terrible,
• 15:39
  is it, isn't it? Oh, I'm thinking it's something
• 15:42
  else. No, yeah, it is.
• 15:43
  Yeah. But I've in my mind doing a lot
• 15:45
  of these. Yeah, it's around that time.
• 15:47
  She's still wearing it. When Sandra Dickinson turned up
• 15:50
  at the BBC and said you look absolutely bloody dreadful, J&T
• 15:54
  should not have kicked her out. He should have kept her to give
• 15:57
  fashion tips for everybody. Let's not worry, Andrew, you're
• 15:59
  trying so hard to say something. No, I I feel like with that
• 16:02
  outfit it's like 5 different things that might work on their
• 16:05
  own but putting them together it's just why, why the shorts?
• 16:10
  Why the shorts? Isn't there like a massive bow
• 16:12
  on the front as well? Yeah, yeah.
• 16:15
  No, I think it would suit Vampire Nissa.
• 16:18
  What? Because she got dressed in the
• 16:20
  dark. What was the 2nd cliffhanger?
• 16:26
  I can't even remember. We're going to rule the.
• 16:30
  World. Oh, Luke.
• 16:31
  Well done. It was the the sun going out and
• 16:35
  the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Mr. Burns moment.
• 16:39
  They are all right. OK, well was there any obvious
• 16:44
  things that they took out that you notice?
• 16:48
  There's one, but I'm sure the two of you are going to go for
• 16:51
  it, that do you? Do you remember enough about the
• 16:54
  book? No, but you've complained that
• 16:57
  this baby isn't in it. The whole time we were
• 16:59
  listening, you were like taking the baby out.
• 17:01
  It's not there. It's like I'm trying to listen
• 17:02
  to this audio but you were just talking over it.
• 17:04
  Well, now, although I won't say about the baby not being there
• 17:07
  because it is the scariest thing in the whole book, this baby
• 17:10
  flying in the window and seizing Nyssa by the neck and her
• 17:14
  smacking it against the wall. I mean, I would love to have
• 17:16
  heard that. And if you go and listen to our
• 17:19
  Goth opera episode, there is a a lovely reading of that with a
• 17:22
  very creepy baby voice. So if you don't want to hear
• 17:24
  that scene reinserted, just pop it in there somewhere.
• 17:27
  Ken Moss won't mind. But Andrew, wasn't it your
• 17:32
  lovely Jake that came into our bedroom instead it?
• 17:35
  Was it was so I was fearing for his life.
• 17:39
  When that happened, I was like, oh, he's got Nyssa like, and
• 17:42
  then I was actually, OK, that adds a bit of like jeopardy to
• 17:45
  this because it's like, he's a likable character and now he's
• 17:49
  going to die. So they're going to change the
• 17:50
  ending and it's going to be him who dies rather than the baby.
• 17:54
  And then that is not what happened.
• 17:56
  It had the most lame undramatic resolution to this of being a
• 18:01
  vampire. So just to expect so in if
• 18:05
  someone, if anyone hasn't rather in the book it's it's stated
• 18:08
  that if you're turned into a vampire, if you kill the vampire
• 18:12
  that made you a vampire before the next full moon, then you
• 18:15
  won't be a vampire anymore. And that's kind of like stated
• 18:18
  in the book. So you're kind of like thinking,
• 18:19
  oh, OK, like what's going to happen to Nessa?
• 18:21
  So I was then thinking, well, what's going to happen to Jake?
• 18:24
  And no, they just find a syringe marked like vampire anti vampire
• 18:31
  juice in the laboratory at the end and then this is not a
• 18:35
  vampire anymore. I mean, I'm not sure which of
• 18:37
  the two is Lamar, but the second one is probably the worst of the
• 18:41
  two, yeah. But at that moment, when he
• 18:44
  comes into the like, quite early on in story, obviously it's at
• 18:47
  the beginning. I had no idea that was
• 18:48
  happening. I couldn't remember any of that.
• 18:51
  Is it the first time in like Talk to Him history where the
• 18:53
  companion's been in danger and just sort of attacked?
• 18:56
  Actually attacked straight away? Usually that's your traditional
• 18:59
  cliffhanger moment. You know what I mean?
• 19:01
  It just happened straight away. I was like wow.
• 19:04
  This is like to a woman's pleasure like the milk Cray man,
• 19:06
  you know, Can I just also, at what point in that scene did you
• 19:11
  want to beat in yourself? Oh throughout.
• 19:16
  Like Jake can can bite on me anytime.
• 19:20
  Because I'll tell you what, Andrew sent a picture of the
• 19:24
  actor playing Jake in our group chat.
• 19:27
  Man, he's so hot. Honestly, that is definitely the
• 19:30
  vampire you want flying through the window, right?
• 19:32
  Javan's quite hot as well. He's in EastEnders at the moment
• 19:37
  and he's hot, Luke. What was taken from your beloved
• 19:43
  goth opera that wasn't in the audio?
• 19:46
  Oh, can I just just the easy one right off About the only part of
• 19:53
  the book I thought was absolutely terrible is gone, and
• 19:56
  that's chapter 6. No weird future dreams featuring
• 20:00
  Romana and Sabalom glitz do. You remember that?
• 20:05
  In the book, no one remembers that.
• 20:07
  And yeah, I. I'm going to need you to detail
• 20:10
  that for Mark, who hasn't recently read the book.
• 20:14
  Can you please tell him everything that occurs in
• 20:16
  chapter 6? All right, so it's, it's Ramana
• 20:22
  from the future. So she's back from a space.
• 20:26
  She's already had the adventure of blood harvest happen to her,
• 20:29
  same as Ruaf, even though she's only in a small bit right at the
• 20:33
  end. And what happens is she's got to
• 20:38
  tell, warn the Doctor of something and you're just like,
• 20:41
  oh, she's going to pop in. She's just going to message the
• 20:44
  TARDIS or something. No, she's in a meditative state
• 20:48
  on a planet with drashings on it, by the way.
• 20:52
  Yeah, for some reason. And having a meditative
• 20:55
  conversation through time and space with the 5th Doctor.
• 21:00
  And then for some reason, it was like, Glitz is there because
• 21:04
  there's some kind of artifact or something he wants to get.
• 21:07
  And I don't know why we needed Glitz to be there at all.
• 21:11
  It just, I don't know. Paul.
• 21:14
  Paul, maybe fan links. Not your strong suit in that
• 21:17
  regard, but yeah, it's it. It also ground that book to a
• 21:21
  halt like big time because. We were all baffled by it,
• 21:24
  weren't we? It's nothing to do with the main
• 21:26
  story at all. So I can't think why they took
• 21:28
  it out of the audio, you know, Although, Andrew, you did give a
• 21:32
  reading as to why that was there, right?
• 21:33
  That was supposed to be there as an example of how to do
• 21:36
  continuity. Yeah, yeah, that's what it said
• 21:38
  in like my my Big Book of like the New and Missing Adventures,
• 21:42
  that they deliberately put those chap, that chapter in because it
• 21:45
  was to show other authors how you could incorporate Doctor Who
• 21:49
  history and different characters.
• 21:51
  But it feels like that would be an example of how not to do it.
• 21:57
  But yeah, glad it's gone. Yes, you too can add saplong
• 22:01
  lips, the dressings, the mini scope and Romana to your books.
• 22:06
  So they've taken out everything that's sort of blood harvest
• 22:11
  related. Well.
• 22:12
  Almost kind of because your Yavan does feature in Blood
• 22:16
  Harvest, the villain in this, doesn't it?
• 22:18
  But it's like, is it like a line or a scene?
• 22:22
  He like, he bursts out of the TARDIS at the end and like,
• 22:29
  yeah, disappears into into 1930s Chicago, but hasn't really
• 22:36
  featured in the rest of the plot.
• 22:38
  I think there's like a little bit earlier where he sort of
• 22:40
  bumps into Bernice or something. So yeah, and actually, it was
• 22:44
  interesting. The audio version, like doesn't
• 22:47
  really have any reference to Blood Harvest and doesn't really
• 22:50
  suffer from it. It kind of worked as a standard.
• 22:53
  Understandable, isn't it? Yeah.
• 22:55
  And then Ruass, the female Time Lord, she, I think she's in a
• 23:00
  single scene at the end of Blood.
• 23:02
  So basically we came to the conclusion that terroristics
• 23:05
  could not be asked to link these two books only very tenuously.
• 23:09
  And then Paul took those links and try to give them as much
• 23:14
  depth as he possibly could. Only because I was just thinking
• 23:16
  in an alternative world where these adaptations sold really
• 23:20
  well. Imagine those those books and
• 23:23
  they didn't run Harvest and Goth operating one of those like
• 23:26
  double steps with everything together.
• 23:29
  That. Would have happened back in the
• 23:31
  back in the day wouldn't it when they were doing these.
• 23:33
  It does feel odd that they didn't because I mean, they've
• 23:36
  they've got all the cast for for Blood Harvest, so it feels
• 23:40
  strange that they didn't do the two of them.
• 23:42
  Didn't you say that there was some behind the scenes as to why
• 23:45
  this exists? I, it's the, I don't know, just
• 23:48
  what I've picked up. So this was I think this was
• 23:51
  celebrating the anniversary of the of the books, but also this
• 23:55
  was just going to be just part of the normal fifth dot domain
• 23:57
  range. Like it wasn't going to be like
• 24:00
  a novel. They didn't call it the novel
• 24:02
  adaptation wasn't going to be in that line.
• 24:04
  It was just when Scott Hancock was producing the 5th Doctor
• 24:07
  sets. It was just going to be one of
• 24:09
  just many others, which I don't know how that would have worked
• 24:12
  if it was like a three-part because obviously this is unless
• 24:15
  they bulked it out to make it a release of its own.
• 24:17
  And it would have been like a, you know, a four part or
• 24:20
  something like that. And then and then he moved on
• 24:23
  and then it got handed over and sort of moved to the.
• 24:26
  To the by jubilee like a a short condensed version with the same
• 24:30
  ideas I don't. Know they they've started
• 24:32
  working on it. It was just normal.
• 24:34
  It wasn't going to be part of this range at all.
• 24:36
  It was just going to be amongst all the other Fifth Doctor sort
• 24:39
  of sets. Yeah, it was weird on the on the
• 24:41
  CD actress of this as well. They have like or, or on the
• 24:44
  end, oh, on the end credits there was Janet Fielding reading
• 24:47
  them. It said like Doctor Who, the
• 24:49
  lost stories. I was like, oh.
• 24:52
  So yeah, but someone, someone sort of the missing adventures
• 24:56
  and then thought, oh, missing, that's lost.
• 24:59
  Oh, maybe lost, yeah. It's all sort of because.
• 25:01
  The rectal I think was under the same impression because he in
• 25:04
  the interviews goes how exciting to be given a chance to bring
• 25:07
  one of these lost stories to life.
• 25:10
  So I think, I think this has gone a lot, you know, got sort
• 25:14
  of stuff's got lost in translations.
• 25:16
  It got maybe like the TARDIS doors noise.
• 25:18
  Maybe there's, you know, TARDIS doors dot WAV.
• 25:22
  And in the script, it's like TARDIS doors and it's just,
• 25:24
  yeah, we'll just put that one in.
• 25:26
  We'll put that one in and it's, you know, it's not the interior
• 25:29
  doors. I got so confused.
• 25:31
  I thought people were going in and out of that TARDIS like you
• 25:34
  wouldn't believe. No, they were just going off to
• 25:35
  do experiments. Very, very strange.
• 25:38
  I mean, I did hear on the Grapevine, and that's basically
• 25:41
  people gossiping on Gallifrey base, that Scott Hancock was
• 25:45
  absolutely obsessed about doing this.
• 25:47
  So it was, I think I fibbed in our last episode.
• 25:51
  And when I said this was made way back in the day, I don't
• 25:54
  think it was. I think when Scott Hancock was
• 25:57
  handed the 5th Doctor adventures at the tail end of the main
• 25:59
  range, he just loved this story and was obsessed about getting
• 26:03
  it made one way or another. And maybe as a parting gift, I
• 26:07
  don't know. But he's the reason we all got a
• 26:10
  chance to listen to it. Doesn't Peter Davidson doesn't
• 26:12
  sound very impressed in the He doesn't.
• 26:15
  He doesn't. Luke Now let's talk about this
• 26:18
  Peter Davidson and special features.
• 26:21
  I haven't heard special features.
• 26:25
  He's very shocked about vampires being in Doctor Who.
• 26:29
  Really, he doesn't. He's like, I didn't know this
• 26:31
  was a thing, boy, suddenly vampires.
• 26:33
  Apparently I just go around the universe killing vampires, he
• 26:36
  says. I don't know he has.
• 26:38
  No idea and he's forgotten Zaltis.
• 26:43
  No, no, there's a reason. For that.
• 26:46
  And he also mentions the many references to tea as well.
• 26:48
  He's like, suddenly I'm obsessed with tea and I'm like.
• 26:51
  There's much tea in the book. I can't remember there being
• 26:54
  that much tea in the book, but I thought it kind of worked
• 26:56
  because it was like we were seeing the Doctor, Nyssa and
• 27:00
  Tegan being a bit more domestic. So it felt like, you know, we're
• 27:03
  seeing a little bit of their lives that we don't normally
• 27:05
  see. It's between these adventures,
• 27:07
  so. And the Doctor likes tea.
• 27:09
  Like, I wasn't really fussed by that, The Doctor wanting a cup
• 27:12
  of tea. I don't think anybody was a part
• 27:14
  of. It Davidson, if I'm honest.
• 27:16
  I mean, look, we've still got to go to Australia, right?
• 27:19
  Absolutely. Down in Tasmania they don't
• 27:22
  reference David Boone that it's instead of I mentioned getting
• 27:26
  like get out of here. Bloody English cricketers,
• 27:28
  sorry. If they ask you to take a
• 27:31
  microphone outside and send them a WAV file afterwards or the.
• 27:37
  I mean I don't know what Australia would sound like on
• 27:39
  audio. Just people playing cricket I
• 27:40
  guess. So when they when they had the
• 27:44
  the language warning at the start or the thing warning, I
• 27:48
  was like, all right, are we going to get full Teague and go
• 27:50
  fuck this doctor fag? No, I thought she was going to
• 27:53
  go fuck full Aussie and maybe drop a few C words or something
• 27:58
  or something like that. Nah, this is like not even a
• 28:00
  bloody struth. I would have gone for a struth
• 28:03
  or bloody struth or something, but Nah.
• 28:06
  And it's a great point, though, about the content warning at the
• 28:09
  start of this. Was that really necessary?
• 28:11
  Yeah. I was thinking that.
• 28:14
  What in this what in this was particularly disturbing for
• 28:18
  children? Now Mark did suggest that he
• 28:20
  perhaps wouldn't have put little girl who in front of this to
• 28:22
  listen to with all the bitings and people being buried alive
• 28:25
  and things like this. Yeah, maybe that's what it maybe
• 28:27
  it was the yeah, that, you know, stuff like that with in the
• 28:30
  coffin and everything. I mean, maybe it comes from the
• 28:32
  BBC. Like you can't like I don't
• 28:35
  know, but then if it was from the BBC they wouldn't allow it
• 28:37
  in the 1st place I suppose. I don't know, I.
• 28:39
  Mean. It's very melodramatic though,
• 28:41
  isn't it? If you.
• 28:42
  Listen to something like Project Twilight, though, and don't
• 28:44
  people get just like ripped in half?
• 28:47
  Is it? And I feel like one of the words
• 28:49
  are one of the sentences by Colin.
• 28:51
  I remember all in that is like it's a child or how it sounds
• 28:54
  like. Oh, OK.
• 28:56
  So that's. There's a scene in Bloodtide
• 28:58
  where there's a load of like bodies hanging up on hooks and
• 29:01
  that's what the Silurians eat. And in the holy terror when that
• 29:04
  kids. And none of those have got
• 29:05
  content warnings. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't surprised
• 29:08
  when it came up because there is some dark stuff in the book, but
• 29:12
  it felt like they kind of wrote around some of that stuff and
• 29:16
  softened it a bit like the the preacher in the book.
• 29:19
  Is a child. Abuser and there that's
• 29:22
  completely gone in this adaptation, which I get why you
• 29:26
  do that for content and tone and brand etcetera.
• 29:29
  But it does kind of that's quite an important theme thematically
• 29:34
  in the book. And there's quite a lot about
• 29:35
  religion in the book, which is all kind of gone in this
• 29:39
  adaptation. But I guess to make get it made
• 29:42
  in this current era that that stuff kind of has to go.
• 29:46
  You know how in classic Doctor Who stories where you just have
• 29:49
  characters to get in the way? I'm thinking about somebody like
• 29:52
  Gebek in the monster of Peloton. You know, the one who's always
• 29:55
  trying to fire that ray on the Citadel and things like this.
• 29:58
  And they're just there for no other reason than to make this
• 30:00
  six episodes long. I felt like the preacher was
• 30:02
  that character in this. Suddenly he had no real motive
• 30:05
  for what he was doing. And so he was just there, you
• 30:08
  know, going we will stop there, but well, no, because the
• 30:10
  doctor's going to do it. We know you ain't going to
• 30:12
  succeed at that. So it was just sort of killing
• 30:14
  time. I I didn't quite understand why
• 30:16
  that character was there that sort of watered down.
• 30:21
  Yeah. I mean, I guess you needed him
• 30:22
  for that sort of like dissemination of the vampire
• 30:26
  virus thing. They also turned down that
• 30:29
  operation scene. There were no exposed colons in
• 30:32
  this version. I did mention that one.
• 30:34
  I said to him, you know, did you know Nissan was salivating over
• 30:37
  a dripping colon in the original when he went, he's sort of
• 30:40
  looking at someone. He looked up and he went colon.
• 30:43
  Yeah, that's. Right.
• 30:45
  I bet no one told Sarah Sutton that in the Green room.
• 30:51
  What did you think that Luke? Would you think there was
• 30:52
  anything in this that you wouldn't sit I don't know a a
• 30:57
  reasonable 7 year old in front of?
• 31:01
  I, well, I, I can, I can understand it like they could.
• 31:07
  I think a child's imagination maybe is a little bit more vivid
• 31:10
  than an adults. I think so.
• 31:14
  You know, when you get that scene where the doctor's like,
• 31:16
  hey, taking you might want to might want to close your eyes.
• 31:19
  Why we're going to go through the kitchen.
• 31:23
  You don't want to. You don't want a 7 year old
• 31:25
  imagining a vampire kitchen is so maybe maybe in that.
• 31:29
  Respect. You remember being seven.
• 31:30
  I loved imagining things like that at that age.
• 31:32
  That's what we talked about Doctor Who in the 80s, right?
• 31:35
  It was all the really gross stuff.
• 31:37
  Yeah. I feel like there isn't anything
• 31:40
  in this that is worse than don't cremate me, so no.
• 31:45
  Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:46
  Cool. Yeah, I think.
• 31:48
  There was people being eaten alive and dot and bubble by
• 31:51
  enormous, disgusting slugs. What?
• 31:54
  What about, what about the production of this?
• 31:56
  Then, like Andrew, I want to come to you first because you
• 32:00
  don't listen to a huge amount of big finishes.
• 32:03
  So what did you think about the production of this?
• 32:06
  As in, like the music editing? Yeah, the music, the
• 32:08
  performances, the pacing. I thought it was good and it
• 32:13
  kind of took me back to old Big Finish.
• 32:16
  I think maybe we just because I don't really listen to much of
• 32:20
  the full cast stuff anymore, but yeah, it kind of, it felt
• 32:24
  reminiscent of the the kind of early stuff where I was
• 32:27
  listening to it more. And yeah, I thought the the
• 32:30
  incidental music was nice and very dramatic.
• 32:34
  I really liked the way that they'd edited the cliffhangers
• 32:37
  kind of to sort of merge into the theme tune.
• 32:41
  They did that with both of them, and I know it was the opening,
• 32:45
  opening theme rather than the closing theme, and a lot of
• 32:47
  people are very irate about that.
• 32:49
  I didn't really care. But yeah, I thought overall it
• 32:53
  was a really good production and good performances.
• 32:56
  But as we've said, Sarah Sutton was really good.
• 32:58
  Peter Davison was also really good.
• 32:59
  I mean, he's always good, but I think there was one moment for
• 33:03
  him that stood out to me, which was the the bit where he's like
• 33:10
  betraying everyone to go along with Ruaths, which in the book
• 33:16
  is like, really? But I think he sold it.
• 33:19
  Like he kind of bought the Ruath would buy it.
• 33:23
  So yeah, I thought, I thought everyone was good.
• 33:26
  Everyone was good. There wasn't really anyone in
• 33:27
  the cast who was weak. Oh, apart from what with one
• 33:31
  particular? Yeah, you know about that old
• 33:33
  woman. I'll, I'll leave that for jokes,
• 33:36
  do you? Remember, we did the Blood
• 33:38
  Office book and I, there was me doing that impression of Peter
• 33:41
  Davidson, like portraying Tegan and going, you know, no, I've
• 33:44
  seen the way now. And actually the way you played
• 33:47
  it was, no, I think she's right. Yeah, actually.
• 33:51
  Sorry, Tegan. Which was, yeah, underplaying it
• 33:53
  was better. I like how they did that in the
• 33:57
  in the audio version of Goth opera, in the book version,
• 34:00
  Tegan's absolutely fooled. No, Doctor, don't betray
• 34:03
  everyone. So I actually appreciate
• 34:06
  appreciated that in the audio, as soon as the vampires are
• 34:10
  gone, Tegan's like, what are you playing at?
• 34:13
  I'm like, yeah, that's I liked that a little more because I
• 34:18
  don't maybe it's, I don't maybe take Janet for the same thing.
• 34:23
  It's like taking full for that. I don't think so like so I kind
• 34:29
  of like that a little a little bit better.
• 34:32
  There's all right. I I've listened this twice and
• 34:37
  the first time I listened to it Andrew, I thought I was going to
• 34:41
  explode with madness that there was the wrong theme at the end.
• 34:46
  I calmed down. It's fine.
• 34:49
  There's one nitpick and about I can't remember her name.
• 34:58
  It's the lady playing Ruth, Natalie Gourmet or something
• 35:01
  like that. She's great.
• 35:02
  I'm not. I'm not going to rag on her
• 35:03
  performance. The only problem is Rath Ruth
• 35:08
  regenerates and has the same voice.
• 35:11
  That's it. That's.
• 35:12
  I like that she's still able to differentiate the two because I
• 35:16
  like the point where how's the science coming along?
• 35:19
  Ruth Science is boring. Now I just want to read my
• 35:22
  books. So I like that they they kind of
• 35:26
  differentiated that a little bit.
• 35:28
  But I, you know, it was the same, same voice.
• 35:31
  Yeah, it was her doing an old woman's voice about half an
• 35:37
  hour, and then she could just finally talk like she normally
• 35:39
  does. It was so obvious, wasn't it?
• 35:43
  Like in in a story of sublime performances, that really does
• 35:47
  stand out as a dodge. I don't know why they did it.
• 35:51
  I don't know why they didn't just double cast it.
• 35:53
  Like there are plenty of other female members of the cast that
• 35:56
  they could have. Just one of them could have been
• 35:58
  like old Rue ass. Yeah, a really weird decision.
• 36:03
  You remember that? Terrible English accent that
• 36:05
  Janet Fielding used to put on in interviews in the 80s, you know,
• 36:08
  when she wanted people and she used to talk very posh like this
• 36:11
  and she's now watches them and just cringe.
• 36:13
  She could have done that, couldn't she?
• 36:14
  She would have been older Rue ass.
• 36:17
  Well, OK, come on then. As a seasoned Big Finish
• 36:21
  listener, what did you think of the production?
• 36:24
  Well, someone who someone who doesn't pay too much attention
• 36:28
  to the incidental music. It really stood out for me this
• 36:33
  time and felt really special, like it really set the the tone.
• 36:37
  You tell them not. Finished big listeners, but your
• 36:40
  usual objection to the music in. Well, like latter day, latter
• 36:44
  day is just trying to do the the TV sort of soundtrack and every
• 36:47
  single one just starts off with this sort of like swell of
• 36:51
  orchestra, like straight away they just all sound the same to
• 36:54
  me. But this really did.
• 36:56
  Is it a different? It's it's a brand.
• 36:59
  New. Musician and he's done a couple
• 37:01
  of stories and it was all violins wasn't.
• 37:03
  It and the way that the sort of the theme was sort of peppered
• 37:06
  in a little bit and some some things.
• 37:08
  But so maybe again, if it's a new person, I don't know,
• 37:11
  somebody just not saying that that's the ending theme and
• 37:13
  that's the opening thing again, Doctor Who theme dot wap and
• 37:17
  he's just like, OK, just Chuck it at the end there.
• 37:19
  I think maybe that's it, but I don't know it that first
• 37:23
  cliffhanger bit, the way it blends in the incidental music
• 37:27
  into the titles works really well.
• 37:30
  Yeah, all the all the performances were were
• 37:33
  brilliant. There wasn't anything that that
• 37:35
  stood out. I wasn't too.
• 37:36
  I wasn't so bothered about the the voice thing because I didn't
• 37:41
  I don't you were you were like get shouting, complaining about
• 37:44
  it when we were listening to it. So I probably wouldn't have
• 37:48
  been, you know, really noticed that much apart from you just
• 37:53
  complaining about it all the time.
• 37:54
  It was dumb, though. But no, yeah, no, no, you know,
• 37:58
  performances were were bad at all.
• 38:01
  Yeah. I think I think this is one of
• 38:03
  the best productions that's come out in Big Finish in many a
• 38:05
  year. Like you listen to some of the
• 38:07
  stuff they brought out recent like the Ones and Futures and
• 38:09
  things like that. It's just like Factory Line Big
• 38:13
  Finish with competent performances like you said, sort
• 38:17
  of the Murray Gold Choir coming in in every episode.
• 38:21
  Curiously, Pace. Maybe this shows you know it is
• 38:23
  a a different team or a different.
• 38:26
  Producer. Like, pretty much, you know?
• 38:28
  If it's sort of more newer people, then, you know, if this
• 38:31
  is a first, you know, one of their first productions, OK,
• 38:33
  there's going to be a few a few things here and there, but it
• 38:37
  shows that actually giving it to a new a new team, you can get
• 38:41
  different things out of Big Finish.
• 38:43
  You know it doesn't have. To be exactly the same, it does
• 38:45
  show that, you know, mix up the people a little bit and you get.
• 38:48
  Different it would be. It'd be interesting to know how
• 38:50
  this sold as well, because it really feels like there was a
• 38:53
  buzz about it. Like people have been talking
• 38:55
  about it for months and then it's been received really well.
• 39:00
  So given how down they've been on novel adaptations and saying
• 39:05
  that they don't sell feels like maybe this might be an
• 39:07
  exception, and maybe doing them slightly differently and more
• 39:12
  sporadically they might work. You can imagine the board
• 39:15
  meeting, can't you, that Nicholas Briggs sitting there
• 39:17
  with his papers going, oh, no, no, no, no, no, we're not going
• 39:19
  to do those sophisticated novel adaptations.
• 39:22
  I've got the 15th sequel to Death to the Daleks to write,
• 39:25
  and that would be, yeah, starring Tom Baker.
• 39:27
  I mean, I suppose it is an expense because you've got the
• 39:30
  extra payment of the author and the.
• 39:32
  Different rights. And everything and they're
• 39:35
  longer, I suppose. You know, it's difficult the
• 39:37
  cost wise, Yeah, if they don't, if they're not the top selling
• 39:41
  ones. Really irritated me.
• 39:43
  Wasn't those things that he got wrong coming in and out of the
• 39:45
  doors and the theme music, right?
• 39:48
  What annoyed me was the reaction to it because I'm like, God,
• 39:52
  guys, you've been handed something that's actually a
• 39:54
  genuinely decent piece of work and you're pointing out this is
• 39:58
  a new director. They brought in a fresh pair of
• 40:00
  eyes to do an audio drama and you're giving this format to a
• 40:04
  point where they're repressing the CDs.
• 40:06
  So it was weird. That statement they put out like
• 40:08
  this, it hasn't, you know, the management deemed this hasn't
• 40:12
  lived up to the standards or something like that.
• 40:14
  It's really weird if it's just like there's got to be something
• 40:17
  else. And obviously it's not that
• 40:19
  obvious because we haven't noticed anything else apart from
• 40:21
  like really those two things. Yeah, to be redone, when I was
• 40:25
  listening to the last episode earlier, there was a bit towards
• 40:28
  the end where I was like, oh, was the audio colour quality
• 40:31
  gone a bit funny. I don't know if there was
• 40:32
  something. Was it the bit I pointed that
• 40:34
  out to him? Was it the bit where Ruaf and
• 40:37
  the doctor were having a standoff and she sounded like
• 40:39
  she was all the way over the other side of the room?
• 40:41
  Yeah, it was maybe that bit or a bit with you.
• 40:44
  It was like some like end confrontation there.
• 40:47
  There was a pay off to it, but it took ages to come, so it
• 40:50
  sounded like it was no, no, no, yeah.
• 40:54
  Space. And then she sort of like jumps
• 40:56
  and she comes near, you hear? Them and then you hear her get
• 40:58
  suddenly close so. She I don't think that was on
• 41:00
  the purpose. But for a while, you're just
• 41:02
  like, it sounds like he's right in front of you and she's, you
• 41:05
  know, 10 miles away, which is very, very strange to me.
• 41:10
  But yeah, don't, don't listen to these insane people.
• 41:12
  Big. Finish, you know.
• 41:14
  You've got enough worries with the website, you know.
• 41:16
  Don't worry about these complaints.
• 41:18
  Yeah, major problems and nitpicks like and that's pretty
• 41:21
  good for a three hour audio. Yeah.
• 41:24
  Did it, did it hold your attention throughout?
• 41:26
  Like, was there any points where you were like, because we said
• 41:29
  with the book, I said like that it was a bit oddly paced as a
• 41:33
  book because there was like a lot of dramatic incident and
• 41:35
  then a lot of sort of nothing. But was it pays well for you,
• 41:40
  Luke. Yeah, I think so.
• 41:44
  In the book there's a lot of the Doctor by himself just doing
• 41:50
  TARDIS experiments and stuff. So I, I do appreciate that they
• 41:54
  kind of condensed because you think you don't get the Tegan
• 41:57
  stuff with the, the homeless dude and all the dude that's
• 42:00
  like killed his family or something like that with their
• 42:04
  heads or anything like that. Instead, she does a little bit
• 42:07
  of investigating, but she's mostly hanging out with a doctor
• 42:11
  as he does all his experiments and things like that.
• 42:13
  So I feel like that that works a lot better to, to move things
• 42:18
  along and not just not have Peter just talking to himself
• 42:21
  for a good chunk of the story, which wouldn't have worked on on
• 42:26
  audio that much. If it's just like him, half an
• 42:28
  hour just going, I'm going to press this button for the thing
• 42:31
  and all that. So I do, I do like that those,
• 42:34
  those there, there are those changes.
• 42:36
  It's not an angry audio either, because the book's got a bit of
• 42:40
  an angry edge to it. Paul Connell's going through
• 42:42
  some stuff at the time. And Elizabeth Miles, she's a
• 42:48
  lot, a lot calmer. She doesn't seem as angry.
• 42:51
  So maybe some of the religious elements aren't pushed as much,
• 42:56
  which I don't mind. I don't mind.
• 42:58
  That's, that's fine. But yeah, I thought it flowed
• 43:02
  rather nicely. I wasn't, I wasn't bored.
• 43:05
  In fact, my mother-in-law and and charity were very happy with
• 43:09
  me yesterday because all the housework got done because I, I
• 43:15
  have to move around when I, when I listen to these.
• 43:17
  So I just, I got more done than I thought because I just wanted
• 43:22
  to keep my headphones on so. I was sad to lose the bit with
• 43:27
  the head though. You know, the severed head.
• 43:28
  We love that bit in a building. We we've lost the baby, the
• 43:32
  colon and the decapitating head and they're still putting a
• 43:36
  concept warning on it. What's going on?
• 43:38
  You can imagine that the description or something, I
• 43:40
  don't know. Right.
• 43:42
  Sarah started describing over there there is the.
• 43:46
  Under there is a. Dripping Colon, she could do it
• 43:53
  after the performance she gives in this, I believe she could
• 43:55
  sell a delicious coal on Andrew. Did you get bored in this?
• 44:01
  No, I thought, I thought it was good and it was pretty
• 44:03
  consistent throughout. I think maybe the first episode
• 44:07
  is the weakest just because there's a lot of exposition at
• 44:10
  the start where, But I mean, it's the same with the book,
• 44:13
  sort of. Ruth comes out, comes in and
• 44:16
  gives the Vampires of Manchester a lecture on the history of
• 44:19
  vampires. But, and yeah, I, I don't know,
• 44:26
  because I was familiar with the book, like I could follow it
• 44:28
  quite easily. I don't know if I hadn't read
• 44:29
  the book as, as recently, if I'd have found kind of the, the many
• 44:35
  different locations quite confusing because it's like
• 44:37
  you're in Australia 1 minute, then you're in Manchester, then
• 44:40
  you're in like Eastern Europe. Like there's a lot of kind of
• 44:44
  flitting about, which I think works better in a book than that
• 44:49
  in audio or on TV. But I mean, that's just sort of
• 44:53
  a minor gripe. And as I've said, I found it
• 44:56
  fine to follow because I because I read the book and yeah, yeah.
• 45:01
  Well structured, well written. Yeah, I can never tell with you
• 45:06
  because you're always usually on your computer anyway.
• 45:08
  So I don't know whether you're absolutely engaged with the
• 45:10
  story we're listening to or whether you're somewhere else.
• 45:13
  No, no. I am and I, it's Russell on at
• 45:15
  the beginning, isn't it? Doing that speech thing right?
• 45:18
  That's Yelving, is it? No, it's Wrestalon.
• 45:21
  It's Wrestalon, yeah. It's Wrestalon, yeah.
• 45:23
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Dadalon.
• 45:25
  Yeah, yeah. So I I really like that opening
• 45:28
  and the explanation everything I appreciated that just to get me
• 45:31
  into the into the story and up to up to speed with.
• 45:35
  With every now it's doing it. Is yeah, yeah.
• 45:37
  It's the new, new wrestalon. Big Finish.
• 45:40
  It's current wrestalon. I thought it was.
• 45:42
  Really effective that that sort of opening speech.
• 45:46
  Yeah, I like that. I I the only thing that and you
• 45:49
  can't really take these things out because they're in the book,
• 45:51
  but they annoyed me so much in the book was that interminably
• 45:55
  long sequence at the end between the doctor and Ruaf where she
• 45:59
  mentions, you know, all of the, the, the Gallifreian Academy
• 46:03
  Hangouts with Koshaki and Mortimus and the Rani and all
• 46:08
  that book. I do we need that in this story?
• 46:10
  Not really. In fact, I don't think we even
• 46:12
  needed Ruaf to be the doctor's old friend in this.
• 46:14
  It didn't add anything to the story.
• 46:16
  And then we got all the bloody techno Babble as well, didn't
• 46:20
  we? Protoplasmic bullshit.
• 46:22
  I was like, Oh, this has just reminded me of everything about
• 46:25
  the book that I really, really hated.
• 46:27
  But then do you remember the I said about the, the fellow who
• 46:30
  went, or was it, you've got a chance to, to do this, What's
• 46:34
  what's your choice? And he goes, I choose death or
• 46:37
  something like that. Man, the way that Yavin played
• 46:39
  that scene, it was so much better in the audio than I read
• 46:42
  it in my head in the book. So I think this is a sort of
• 46:47
  proof to me that actors do this better than my imagination.
• 46:50
  Yeah, the Yavin really went for it.
• 46:54
  I loved it. He was like Bull Cam Hammer
• 46:58
  horror villain. It was brilliant.
• 47:00
  But he's got a really, he's like, like Idris Elba voice.
• 47:03
  Like, really? Yeah, it's really smooth.
• 47:06
  Bassy voice, Yeah. Did you like the villains?
• 47:09
  Yeah, I did. Yeah.
• 47:11
  Yeah, maybe just in terms of sort of keeping my attention,
• 47:13
  maybe sort of just the middle, middle episode.
• 47:17
  It was a bit sort of plodding a little bit.
• 47:21
  But out of all the three, I've enjoyed part one the most.
• 47:28
  I think I enjoyed part three the most.
• 47:31
  Like I think I was drifting a beer and then Sarah Sutton woke
• 47:34
  up buried underground and then I totally was like, wow, more of
• 47:38
  this place. Oh, Sarah Sutton, It's an every
• 47:41
  actors dream, isn't it? Be buried alive.
• 47:46
  OK, she's going to have this script framed, doesn't she?
• 47:52
  To be fair to Sarah Sutton, we're being a bit mean.
• 47:55
  She does get an awful lot to do with Big Finish, doesn't she?
• 47:58
  Like she. Could they really redress that?
• 48:00
  Oh yeah, yeah. But she still usually plays that
• 48:03
  more, sort of. Obviously the she has all the
• 48:07
  science stuff, doesn't she? And she's always a bit more
• 48:10
  sensible. She doesn't really let go that
• 48:13
  much in all of her. She doesn't this.
• 48:16
  Yeah, that's what it is, isn't it?
• 48:19
  Yeah, I I quite liked. And something that was kind of
• 48:22
  refreshing about this one is that it was very much sort of TV
• 48:26
  Nesser and Tegan. Like it wasn't really those big
• 48:29
  finished versions of the characters where they've had 50
• 48:31
  adventures and they're kind of not the same characters anymore.
• 48:35
  And it's kind of hard to always believe that they have all that
• 48:39
  character development and then they come back and do Arch of
• 48:41
  Infinity or whatever. So, yeah, it was quite nice that
• 48:44
  they were sort of the more simple versions of their
• 48:47
  characters. And yeah, it felt like this kind
• 48:51
  of slots into that season a bit better than maybe some of the
• 48:55
  Yeah story #207 when she's in that gap.
• 48:59
  When she's in the lab and everything, I'm imagining that
• 49:02
  lab in Terminus that she's in. Yeah, that I've just.
• 49:05
  Got that all happened. It all happened there, yeah.
• 49:07
  I'm just, I'm desperate to see that scene on TV where she
• 49:10
  attacks Tegan in the TARDIS. That would just be wonderful.
• 49:14
  OK, I've got one sort of two more questions then about the
• 49:17
  story. One is who you see this as
• 49:23
  presented in this audio, taking place between Snake Dance and
• 49:29
  Mordred. Undead Luke.
• 49:32
  Is this? I thought this was before Snake.
• 49:34
  Dance. Oh, I mean, please, let's not
• 49:36
  get into that. I just chose a gap.
• 49:38
  Well. She mentions at the beginning
• 49:39
  about the Mara, doesn't she? And she's still got the snake in
• 49:42
  her head somewhere. So yeah, it's it's pre snake
• 49:44
  dance. No, it's after snake.
• 49:45
  Oh. It's oh, it's snake dance.
• 49:46
  Oh, hang on. She mentioned, she mentioned
• 49:48
  tomorrow, doesn't she? Yeah.
• 49:49
  So it's so it's happened again in Snake Dance and then she's
• 49:52
  like recovering from that. Is that?
• 49:54
  Yeah, yeah. Because Nyssa gets that
• 49:56
  wonderful line that's being really crabby, doesn't she?
• 49:58
  In episode one, yeah. Yeah, yeah, she and she makes
• 50:05
  Nessa go away. Yeah.
• 50:06
  So I don't know, I really, I really liked it.
• 50:09
  OK, if it's post snake dance, then it it's got Tegan kind of
• 50:13
  convalescing in Australia and still a bit grumpy about the
• 50:17
  whole thing. I do like that she, they try to
• 50:20
  hypnotize me that one of the vampires and it doesn't work
• 50:23
  because I don't know if it's necessarily her, her strength of
• 50:28
  will or just that her brain is just soup at this point because
• 50:31
  all the stuff that's been going on with it.
• 50:34
  So, so yeah, I like, I like Tegan now.
• 50:38
  I think she's a little bit of a mix of of audio Tegan and TV
• 50:45
  Tegan because I, I feel like on TV, like she definitely also
• 50:52
  would have fallen for the doctors.
• 50:53
  Like, oh, no, you've betrayed us.
• 50:55
  How how could you? And I like that audio taken.
• 51:00
  Well, she didn't frontier, didn't she?
• 51:01
  Do you remember when he he does the whole thing with the gravis
• 51:04
  and she's there in a sensed that he sold her off for a second
• 51:07
  hand Android. Do you reckon?
• 51:09
  Do you reckon? Could you say this in season 20?
• 51:11
  Oh. Absolutely.
• 51:12
  And it fits in season 20 like the themes like bringing back
• 51:16
  the vampires, all the sort of returning elements to celebrate
• 51:19
  the 20th anniversary. It fits in really well and.
• 51:24
  I'm Lords, yeah. Yeah, it would fit really well,
• 51:27
  wouldn't it? But would be like the changing
• 51:30
  sort of. Season finale, wouldn't it?
• 51:33
  Yeah, or the Nisa vampire. Yeah, the Nisa, Yeah, yeah,
• 51:36
  yeah. I think if they were making it,
• 51:39
  then they would have to change a few things, wouldn't they?
• 51:41
  And it wouldn't. Excuse me.
• 51:43
  Look. What they put her through in
• 51:44
  Terminus. They're not going to look at it.
• 51:46
  Cover in a room with a load of leopards and then send her to
• 51:48
  hell in the centre of the universe like they are prepared
• 51:52
  to torture and then make a strip Monster underwear.
• 51:56
  Poor cow. Andrew, could you see this in
• 51:58
  season 20? Yeah, I mean, it feels
• 52:03
  authentic. The characters feel authentic.
• 52:05
  I think for me it's because it's drawing on lots of like 90s
• 52:10
  stuff like, you know, it's it's very like Lost Boys and it's
• 52:14
  very and Rice and Stephen King like stuff that didn't exist
• 52:18
  when Stephen 20 season 20 went out.
• 52:20
  So it kind of feels more like it is that sort of 90s take on
• 52:24
  Doctor Who. Although this audio version
• 52:28
  maybe doesn't play that up as as much as the as the book does
• 52:33
  because you don't have some of those things, like you don't
• 52:35
  have the flashback of when Jake and Maddie first meet.
• 52:39
  So yeah, I mean, it's just sort of like a good smashing together
• 52:43
  of loads of different eras and stuff and season 20s in the mix.
• 52:47
  But also like, yeah, missing adventures, but an adaptation of
• 52:51
  a missing adventure 30 years later informed by be finished.
• 52:55
  So yeah, it's just a good melting pot of all the good.
• 52:58
  Stuff that's crossing a lot, lot of different ranges and
• 53:00
  timelines there, isn't it? But I guess that's why this is
• 53:04
  so unique, actually. Yeah, thinking what you said
• 53:06
  there about the vampire, isn't it being that sort of 90s
• 53:08
  Ultraviolet thing? It would absolutely be J and TS
• 53:11
  stunt cars. We'd have Christopher Lee or
• 53:14
  Peter Cushing in there as the head vampire wouldn't be Yarvin.
• 53:17
  And it would be far more sort of Hammer Horror than Ultraviolet,
• 53:22
  Yes, But maybe it would lose lose something that way.
• 53:26
  I was just thinking actually if this imagine if this was the
• 53:29
  beginning and they were adapting all the missing adventures in
• 53:33
  order, the next one would be Evolution by John.
• 53:36
  Deere. Oh no.
• 53:39
  Has anyone read that? No, yeah, I've read.
• 53:42
  That or if they have, do they remember it?
• 53:44
  Starring Maker and Sadie Miller. Well, interestingly enough, that
• 53:49
  was that was sort of going to be my last question.
• 53:53
  Oh, well, no, no, it was just it was just like if, if you could
• 53:56
  choose, and I know we've done this before in the book club,
• 54:01
  but I'm pinpointing the missing adventures only or the past
• 54:06
  doctor adventures, which story would you choose to have
• 54:10
  adapted? Andrew's scratching his head.
• 54:13
  So let's go to Luke. All right, I I see I've been a
• 54:19
  bit. I'm I'm happy we've got already
• 54:21
  done 2 Davis in one. So I'm not going to pick a Davis
• 54:24
  in this time. I'm going to pick a Steve Lyon.
• 54:26
  So damn tootin. Holla be surprised.
• 54:34
  I would love to see them do Grant Markham, see if they could
• 54:40
  do Time of your life and killing ground.
• 54:43
  They'd have to do both of them just killing ground.
• 54:46
  Maybe that might sell it too. It's got a Cyberman in it.
• 54:49
  There you go. So that's that's the other
• 54:52
  thing. So yeah, I'd like to see how
• 54:54
  they do Grant Markham because he he kind of sucks, but in that,
• 54:57
  but not in a bad way that you don't want to read about him,
• 55:00
  but he's he's yeah, and he get and he got name dropped
• 55:05
  recently. So I was like, oh come on,
• 55:08
  that's a tease. Please, please do it.
• 55:10
  In your A double bill with Steve Lyons, Grant Markham Big Finish
• 55:15
  box set that we're now bringing to life before us.
• 55:18
  Your bonus question is who are you casting as Grant Markham?
• 55:24
  Oh, who's all right? Who's the main nerd in The
• 55:31
  Inbetweeners? Oh, the main nerd.
• 55:36
  Well, the really geeky one. The glasses.
• 55:38
  It's. His name?
• 55:41
  It's it's cruel. A big geek, then.
• 55:45
  He's on the cover of Killing Ground.
• 55:46
  He's, yeah, he's, he's got like short light brown hair and geeky
• 55:52
  looking glasses. Oh yeah, that looks.
• 55:55
  Isn't he supposed to be? Isn't that like a self-portrait
• 55:57
  of the whoever drew it? What's his name?
• 56:00
  Isn't that? So yeah, Alastair Pearson.
• 56:03
  Yes, especially. Alastair Pearson, do you know I
• 56:06
  did an interview with Steve Lyons?
• 56:07
  You know, it looks a bit like a young Steve Lyons.
• 56:11
  OK, so we're casting that fella from The Inbetweeners.
• 56:14
  That's Grant Markham. This sounds like a winner
• 56:16
  already. Big Finish.
• 56:17
  Are you listening, Andrew? Well, I think that one that
• 56:26
  would make a good deal of sense to do would be Business Unusual,
• 56:32
  the Gary Russell one that introduced Mel.
• 56:36
  It was sort of a male origin story and Big Finish haven't
• 56:42
  really done a male origin story because they did the wrong
• 56:44
  doctors, which was kind of you thought it was going to be and
• 56:48
  then it wasn't. And I think that that audio
• 56:52
  pulled a few bits from Business Unusual.
• 56:55
  I think some of the names of her family and like, the setting in
• 56:58
  Peace Pottage and stuff. So it feels like that one would
• 57:01
  make total sense. And it's got the Brigadier in it
• 57:03
  and it's got the Autons in it. It feels like it could.
• 57:06
  And it, you know, Bonnie Langford just come back to TV.
• 57:10
  Yeah, it feels like it'd make total sense.
• 57:12
  And it would probably sell quite a few copies.
• 57:16
  And. There's a lot of great column
• 57:17
  books, isn't there? And you know, he would just
• 57:22
  crush them. Yeah, he might have gotten read
• 57:24
  a copy. Your bonus question then is who
• 57:28
  are you choosing And please, I want you to say, I think you're
• 57:30
  going to say who are you choosing to adapt business
• 57:34
  unusual for Big Finish. Oh, who did this one?
• 57:44
  Elizabeth Miles. Yeah, like I think she's shown
• 57:47
  like with this one that she's really skilled at doing this and
• 57:51
  smashed it out of the park and the the pre, some of the
• 57:55
  previous ones have just not worked for me and and dragged
• 57:59
  and not been particularly well structured.
• 58:00
  So I think, yeah, Elizabeth Miles, get her on the case.
• 58:04
  I was rather tenuously hoping you were going to make the link
• 58:06
  between that new Bonnie Langford book, Jacqueline Rayner.
• 58:09
  And get her to adapt this. Because she do a fabulous job,
• 58:13
  Yeah, but. I think, I think she did love
• 58:14
  them more and I didn't like that one.
• 58:16
  Oh, did she? Oh, you're out, Jack.
• 58:17
  Sorry. Sorry, Jack.
• 58:20
  You got one chance that you blew a get out of here.
• 58:24
  Can I, can I ask you a question before you answer this question?
• 58:27
  OK. Oh man, it's like mastermind,
• 58:28
  sorry. Russian question.
• 58:31
  Has Elizabeth Miles redeemed herself after Mark can't get
• 58:37
  past her debut The Grey Man of the Mountain which was a main
• 58:41
  range story towards the end and he can't get past episode one?
• 58:45
  No, that's. Not her fault though, is it?
• 58:47
  Well. That's not her fault because
• 58:48
  it's that Scottish woman's voice.
• 58:50
  Are you sure that's. Really annoying.
• 58:53
  It's also. She's supposed to be like an old
• 58:54
  lady in an end. It's just someone going oh, hi,
• 58:57
  oh, like I just, it's just someone doing a really bad
• 59:00
  impression. Like acting like really
• 59:02
  obviously no, I'm not doing that again.
• 59:05
  I just got it just takes me out of it every single time and it
• 59:07
  ruins the whole thing. So that's not her fault, though.
• 59:09
  He's. A bit dull as well though, isn't
• 59:11
  it? You've not listened to it all
• 59:13
  the way through. No, because it's boring.
• 59:15
  I've got no problems at all. That crazy?
• 59:17
  Spot apart from that woman. OK, so I know you haven't read
• 59:21
  too many books, but you've read enough.
• 59:24
  I just have to be one I've read. I don't know.
• 59:26
  I whisper one in your ear, you know, because I know you love
• 59:29
  this book. Oh, are you going to say the
• 59:32
  what? Oh, no, not the murder game.
• 59:37
  Why no. Oh, no.
• 59:41
  We look at. We're doing past doctor ones,
• 59:43
  aren't we? Yeah.
• 59:44
  Oh, damn. Go on.
• 59:45
  Why? OK, you can do an Eighth Doctor
• 59:47
  one, Because you haven't. If it was an Eighth Doctor one,
• 59:49
  I'd love vampire science. Oh, another vampire.
• 59:53
  Another vampire story, but I did the.
• 59:56
  Burning. The vampire science would be
• 1:00:00
  great choice. That'd be amazing.
• 1:00:02
  Mark is currently reading his way through the 8th Doctor books
• 1:00:06
  in order for the first time ever at a rate of one book.
• 1:00:10
  Every Yeah, it takes a while. I have passed Doctor books while
• 1:00:14
  I'm just trying to think what I've read all about Devil
• 1:00:18
  goblins from Neptune. That would be great.
• 1:00:23
  I've read that a couple of times actually.
• 1:00:25
  That's a good one. I just.
• 1:00:27
  Hope you didn't go with that past sites.
• 1:00:29
  I have a fun bonus question and that is please cast Sam Jones
• 1:00:32
  and do not say that copy editor of the works at BBC offices,
• 1:00:35
  Matt. Jones I might get them mixed up
• 1:00:39
  with them because they cast Izzy, didn't they?
• 1:00:40
  In the comic strips? In the comic strips, didn't
• 1:00:43
  they? I can't remember her name.
• 1:00:45
  I can't remember. Her name?
• 1:00:46
  It's. Really annoying though I don't
• 1:00:48
  know how I imagine easy sounding.
• 1:00:50
  That's all I think. It's right there.
• 1:00:53
  Sorry. Oh.
• 1:00:54
  Matt G Andrew. Well, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 1:00:57
  I should be looking at Andrew. Really.
• 1:00:58
  Yeah. I don't know.
• 1:01:01
  I think someone sort of unknown, someone knew not like.
• 1:01:05
  The most familiar also you possibly know.
• 1:01:08
  That. Question, Andrew, Luke, can you
• 1:01:10
  please call Sam Jones for Mark? Hannah from S Club.
• 1:01:14
  Oh yes. Oh my God, that was brilliant.
• 1:01:18
  Yes, I can see that. Explain yourself, Sir.
• 1:01:23
  I feel like, you know, she kind of looks like Sam.
• 1:01:25
  She's done a bit of acting with S Club.
• 1:01:27
  She doesn't seem like she's particularly busy these days.
• 1:01:30
  She might do it. Did you see her play her evil
• 1:01:33
  doppelganger in the S Club 7 movie?
• 1:01:36
  I've never seen the S Club 7. I in fact was looking to see if
• 1:01:39
  it was on Amazon Prime the other day and it's not.
• 1:01:41
  That was her audition piece for Dark Sam in the 8th Doctor
• 1:01:45
  books. Well, look, because we started
• 1:01:50
  this episode, I asked. I'll guess what their
• 1:01:54
  relationship is with Big Finish. May I ask you please, what your
• 1:01:57
  relationship is with the books? Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't
• 1:02:02
  really read the new adventures, all the all the missing
• 1:02:06
  adventures when they were coming out at the time.
• 1:02:09
  I might have picked up the odd one, but I I sort of looked at
• 1:02:12
  the cover and didn't really actually read it.
• 1:02:16
  So the only, the only missing novel that I've read is Goth
• 1:02:21
  Opera, because way back years and years ago, I got that was
• 1:02:24
  like, right, I'm going to start at the beginning and go through
• 1:02:26
  all of them. And I just did that one and just
• 1:02:27
  never did any of the others. But I do want to now.
• 1:02:33
  And then, yeah, I started the 8th Doctor books when they came
• 1:02:37
  out. I did like the first few.
• 1:02:40
  I read them in night in school. And then again, just didn't
• 1:02:44
  really got a life. I just didn't really follow
• 1:02:47
  that, follow that on. So now I just need to make up
• 1:02:51
  for all that time and I just need to get through them all.
• 1:02:52
  I want to read them all now. How are you enjoying them?
• 1:02:56
  Yeah, I'm really enjoying the 8th Doctor ones.
• 1:02:58
  And are you struggled with? The only ones I mean I've only
• 1:03:02
  done like the first Sikhs. Genocide has been the most
• 1:03:06
  difficult one so far just because it just felt like a a
• 1:03:11
  sci-fi novel with just some Doctor Who stuff and there's no
• 1:03:13
  reason Joe Grant needs to be in that book at all with not really
• 1:03:17
  anything to do with her. You know what that.
• 1:03:20
  Is that's the perfect example of what Andrew was talking about in
• 1:03:23
  his top 10s and bottom 10s of them just choosing to make
• 1:03:28
  established happy companions thoroughly miserable in the
• 1:03:32
  books? Yeah, yeah, there's no and she
• 1:03:34
  doesn't really spend that much time with the Doctor at all if
• 1:03:36
  they hardly ever actually interact.
• 1:03:39
  And it's horrific stuff in that one, actually, I can't see that
• 1:03:43
  one ever been adapted into an audio.
• 1:03:47
  So boring. I can't believe you didn't
• 1:03:48
  choose War of the Daleks. War of the Daleks, Yeah, that
• 1:03:52
  was probably the second one that's sort of most boring, but
• 1:03:55
  I enjoyed that as a child. But reading it again, not at
• 1:03:58
  all. But I would love to do some of
• 1:04:00
  the more actual past Doctor ones.
• 1:04:03
  So yeah, I'd like to do well. You don't like sounds of time I.
• 1:04:09
  Was going to say out here there's a podcast that might so
• 1:04:12
  let you know some of the best ones out there.
• 1:04:15
  And come with book readings as well.
• 1:04:17
  I mean, I don't really. Want to get the dodo one just to
• 1:04:21
  see exactly what happens in it just to know Once you don't want
• 1:04:25
  to know, read that one. That's that's.
• 1:04:26
  Is this velvet mask or who killed Kennedy Because you might
• 1:04:30
  want. Both.
• 1:04:31
  Oh, both. I've heard what happens.
• 1:04:32
  Yeah, I think you need to go both for the full Dodo
• 1:04:35
  experience, yeah. What's the preference here if
• 1:04:39
  you would you rather die of an alien STD or being shot in the
• 1:04:41
  head? I don't know what does anything
• 1:04:45
  bad happen to her in? Was it, is it sanctuary or
• 1:04:47
  sanctuary? Oh.
• 1:04:48
  Yes, so. That's that's not very nice to
• 1:04:51
  Dodo either. Oh, I thought that would be the
• 1:04:52
  one that was nice to ask. Historical The new adventure.
• 1:04:55
  No, that's the in the past Doctor in the BBC books range.
• 1:04:58
  It's like green with like. Oh no, you're thinking of.
• 1:05:00
  It's. Not sanctuary.
• 1:05:02
  It's not sanctuary. What's?
• 1:05:03
  Salvation, Salvation. That's.
• 1:05:05
  It. That's right.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah, I should I? Should have been on a pig there.
• 1:05:09
  That's also Steve Ryan's. Yeah.
• 1:05:11
  Just don't have any fun in the books.
• 1:05:13
  Are they like the only three books she's in?
• 1:05:16
  No, she's in bunker soldiers. That was one of yours, yes.
• 1:05:18
  That's right. Yeah.
• 1:05:21
  Man, in the velvet mask, she's in three.
• 1:05:25
  I guess nobody really wanted to write for Dado 3 that I can
• 1:05:28
  think of. Good dado.
• 1:05:30
  Wow. Yeah.
• 1:05:32
  We usually end the book clubs. You wouldn't know this because
• 1:05:36
  you ain't heard any with a recommend.
• 1:05:41
  And since we're talking about audio book adaptations from Big
• 1:05:44
  Finish, I've given nobody any time to prep this.
• 1:05:48
  So everyone scratch your head now, please can everyone
• 1:05:51
  recommend from the shortlist? I think there's only sort of 15
• 1:05:55
  of them. What would you recommend to
• 1:05:57
  people who would sort of dipping their toes into this for the
• 1:05:59
  first time, Luke? I guess if because she's such a
• 1:06:07
  big part of the range, I was going to say love them more, but
• 1:06:09
  I, I don't remember being quite as good as some of the others.
• 1:06:13
  But I guess if you want bang for your buck, I'd go cold fusion.
• 1:06:17
  You got the 5th Doctor, you got the 7th Doctor, you've got 7th
• 1:06:20
  Doctors. Two companions.
• 1:06:21
  That's the first time they played Ros and Chris as well.
• 1:06:24
  So that that's really interesting.
• 1:06:26
  And I like Chris's interactions with with Janet Fielding.
• 1:06:30
  I can't remember the actor's name.
• 1:06:31
  I'm sorry. Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  You get Nyssa, Tegan, Adric, there's five companions, 2
• 1:06:36
  doctors, there's a timey wimey Time Lord plot, there's kind of
• 1:06:42
  magic sort of involved with technology and things.
• 1:06:45
  It's a six part story and I think it's the only audio
• 1:06:48
  adaptation adapted by its author as well.
• 1:06:51
  So I'd go. I'd start there.
• 1:06:53
  Do. You know, is that Andy Lane?
• 1:06:57
  No, it's like it's parking ow. Why don't I think you're talking
• 1:07:01
  about original sin? What were you talking about
• 1:07:02
  there? Cold Fusion I.
• 1:07:04
  Don't think I got because I got listening fusion.
• 1:07:06
  I like you're talking about original scene cold fusion.
• 1:07:09
  That's a great choice. I'm going to shut up now.
• 1:07:11
  Andrew, what's your choice? Yeah, when I was rattling
• 1:07:15
  through them earlier, I think I forgot the most obvious one,
• 1:07:17
  which was damaged goods. Which?
• 1:07:20
  You know, if you're dipping your toe in, it's a, it's a Russell T
• 1:07:23
  Davies, like a very different Russell T Davies.
• 1:07:26
  But you can see the lot of the sort of DNA of what he did with
• 1:07:30
  the series later on. And it's a really good
• 1:07:33
  adaptation. I think it's Jonathan Morris did
• 1:07:36
  the did the audio version and they condensed the story down.
• 1:07:41
  I I think it's only A2 disco. It's it's quite, quite pacey and
• 1:07:49
  like the music's really good. And I think they do a really
• 1:07:51
  good job of making like a very dark adult book kind of work as
• 1:07:57
  a Big Finish audio without kind of sanitizing it too much and
• 1:08:02
  making it diluting what that book was.
• 1:08:05
  So I think it's, yeah, it's a good sort of compromise, I guess
• 1:08:10
  between what the book was originally and the form that it
• 1:08:12
  has to take now, kind of given where Doctor Who has gone
• 1:08:18
  tonally since the book was published.
• 1:08:20
  You can't have the the sort of cocaine monsters anymore.
• 1:08:26
  It's a massacre at the end that was originally going to be my
• 1:08:29
  choice, so I'm going to think now whilst you you'll recommend.
• 1:08:33
  It's I, I will say love and war actually, just I suppose if you,
• 1:08:40
  if you don't know anything about the new adventures, it sort of
• 1:08:43
  gives you a taste of what they're like, introduces
• 1:08:46
  beneath. If it's that's the character
• 1:08:49
  that you don't know anything about, and I think it's got some
• 1:08:53
  of those sort of it's got all the new adventure sort of tropes
• 1:08:55
  in it, isn't it? All these characters that have
• 1:08:58
  these like mind bending experiences.
• 1:09:01
  I remember that sort of standing out of the first part of it.
• 1:09:05
  It might not be the best audio, but if you want a taste of what
• 1:09:08
  maybe the novels of the 90s are like, I think Love and War is 1
• 1:09:13
  to go to. Actually, another one that I
• 1:09:15
  really liked was all Consuming Fire.
• 1:09:17
  Yeah, that was really yeah, really good.
• 1:09:20
  And that's got Nick Briggs or Sherlock Holmes as well.
• 1:09:23
  It's a, well, stuffy. It's.
• 1:09:27
  Only one man to call. He's really good.
• 1:09:30
  I I really enjoy that one too. You, you, you like Briggs's.
• 1:09:33
  I understand you. I.
• 1:09:34
  Yeah, I've listened to some of the actual, yeah, some of the
• 1:09:37
  actual box sets of of Sherlock Holmes.
• 1:09:38
  I quite like those, Yeah. Love and War even manages to
• 1:09:42
  drag a decent performance out of Sophie Aldred, a fee I would
• 1:09:47
  have thought impossible until the climax where, forgive me,
• 1:09:52
  everybody, if you want to put in earplugs or something, please go
• 1:09:55
  ahead. Like she's literally going and
• 1:09:59
  McCoy is going. Oh God.
• 1:10:04
  Oh my. And until that point, she's
• 1:10:06
  really great. So yeah, it's very the new
• 1:10:10
  adventure. So you're right.
• 1:10:14
  I can't have damaged goods. Then I'm going to point us to
• 1:10:16
  one of the stories that either Andrew or Luke said we're not
• 1:10:20
  allowed to talk about anymore, and that is romance for the
• 1:10:23
  crime, which is the first one of the season 17 audios that they
• 1:10:27
  did. Simply because I think whoever
• 1:10:31
  adapted that and it wasn't Gareth Roberts, they just got
• 1:10:35
  the comedic flavour of season 17 absolutely perfect.
• 1:10:39
  And Tom Baker, when he's having fun, you're all having fun and
• 1:10:44
  he's having a blast in that story.
• 1:10:46
  And who is it that plays the Super villain Margot in that?
• 1:10:50
  It's a, is it? No, it's Constance.
• 1:10:52
  It's Miranda Raisin is playing the villain in that.
• 1:10:56
  And honest to God, Lady Adacha with Irani, they're all in the
• 1:11:01
  nursery. She's somewhere in the
• 1:11:02
  stratosphere and having the best time of her life.
• 1:11:06
  And it's just a colourful, really fun story to listen to.
• 1:11:10
  I didn't really get on with English Way of Death and the
• 1:11:13
  World Man of War, so I thought, I've really, really loved that
• 1:11:16
  one. It's really weird they put
• 1:11:17
  damaged Goods and the 4th Doctor, that 4th doctor one like
• 1:11:20
  together in that set. I always thought it was a really
• 1:11:23
  weird combination. Wasn't.
• 1:11:25
  It it's very BBC though, because let's I think we've all probably
• 1:11:32
  seen classic Doctor Who in a random ass order because of how
• 1:11:36
  they released the VHS is if you want to the release audio book
• 1:11:41
  bundles of the target novelizations and you've got
• 1:11:44
  like a 5th doctor story, a first doctor story, a second doctor
• 1:11:47
  story. And apparently, and I'm like I
• 1:11:50
  just love a season seven. But like little book box said,
• 1:11:53
  or like do it like that or have just the same doctor or
• 1:11:56
  something. But no, it's always this weird,
• 1:11:59
  crazy mishmash. BB CS always on the DVD
• 1:12:02
  schedule. Yeah, I was going to say the
• 1:12:06
  what was it? Gunfighters and the Awakening?
• 1:12:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that called?
• 1:12:14
  Earth Story. So.
• 1:12:16
  You don't remember the linking Teagan tales?
• 1:12:19
  Yeah. What was that?
• 1:12:20
  That was arc Infinity and time flight of.
• 1:12:25
  Course. Both heavily.
• 1:12:27
  Ace Adventures. What was that?
• 1:12:30
  That was Dragon Fire and Happiness Patrol.
• 1:12:32
  Which was a bit more was there? Was there a history one as well?
• 1:12:36
  Adventures in History. I just made that up.
• 1:12:40
  Yeah, I think I am. OK, well, let's.
• 1:12:45
  Oh, no, wait. Before we go.
• 1:12:47
  I have a reckoning to settle. I was determined to do it on
• 1:12:51
  this call because it's the only time I can ever get to ask Mr.
• 1:12:55
  Andrew Batty. Whilst we're talking about Big
• 1:13:00
  Finish, what is beef is with my favorite Colin Baker.
• 1:13:06
  Yeah. Now, sorry, that sounded very
• 1:13:10
  confronting. And I wanted to come.
• 1:13:12
  Across that Way, Colin Baker from my adaptation.
• 1:13:15
  Oh, you did. I'm bringing more Colin into the
• 1:13:20
  world. Is it just a matter of taste?
• 1:13:23
  I think, yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I'm just not as
• 1:13:28
  big a Six Doctor fan as as other people, even on Big Finish.
• 1:13:33
  He's not, he's not the one that does it for me.
• 1:13:35
  I think, you know, he's just, I think as a character, the Six
• 1:13:39
  Doctor is just too pompous for me.
• 1:13:40
  And I find him a bit off. I like, if I was in a room with
• 1:13:43
  him, I'd be, I'd be out of there, be like, who is this
• 1:13:47
  person? I don't want to spend any time
• 1:13:49
  around them. Get Me Out of that TARDIS.
• 1:13:52
  So to have him as the lead in something, it's just, yeah, it's
• 1:13:57
  not my favorite. It's not my favorite combo of
• 1:14:01
  Doctor Who. Weirdly, I get it when people
• 1:14:03
  say that about Catherine Tate's Donna as well.
• 1:14:05
  Like I love her, but if I was stuck in a room with her, Oh my
• 1:14:10
  God this obnoxious woman is terrible.
• 1:14:14
  Sorry about that. Although it does sort of lead on
• 1:14:17
  to a second question and that is, well, who does float your
• 1:14:20
  boat then be in Big Finish? In Big finish of the doctors.
• 1:14:26
  That's right, I suppose my I'm. Not talking about looks now,
• 1:14:30
  right acting. Well, it's the same.
• 1:14:32
  It's the Paul Mcgahn ones, just because that's those early Paul
• 1:14:37
  Mcgahn ones were the ones where I was getting them in order.
• 1:14:40
  Like begged my mum for a subscription.
• 1:14:43
  And, you know, it was just so thrilling to, like, have this
• 1:14:46
  sort of continuing series going on with all the plot twists
• 1:14:50
  happening and new companions and not knowing where the story was
• 1:14:52
  going. So yeah, Paul McGann is always
• 1:14:57
  going to be my favorite audio doctor.
• 1:15:00
  And now I have asked that question, Luke, so I do have to
• 1:15:02
  ask you as well. And I'm wondering if it's going
• 1:15:04
  to be Peter Davison or whether you're going to surprise us all.
• 1:15:08
  I was about to say, do you really want to ask me this
• 1:15:11
  question? I kind of like because I I still
• 1:15:14
  picture the 5th doctor as the young man but I love his voice
• 1:15:18
  on audio so I like to imagine the young body with the old
• 1:15:23
  voice. I just think it's.
• 1:15:25
  I just think that's that'd be awesome.
• 1:15:28
  Yeah. So he's he's my favorite.
• 1:15:31
  But on audio as well. I think they've done great
• 1:15:34
  things with him. Especially I like the Tegan
• 1:15:36
  stuff, all the ones with Adric in it.
• 1:15:39
  For some reason. I like all those.
• 1:15:40
  But if I have to, usually when I want a column story, I don't.
• 1:15:46
  I don't go to the TVTV ones. I usually I my go to either an
• 1:15:52
  Evelyn story or or one of the Charlie ones.
• 1:15:55
  I just like those kind of areas. So I think he works better for
• 1:15:59
  me on audio because I also don't have to look at the bloody
• 1:16:01
  jacket. But yeah, it's.
• 1:16:04
  It's Peter. Yeah.
• 1:16:05
  You know what it is? Yeah.
• 1:16:07
  Look at his little smile. Well, look, I think I've flogged
• 1:16:12
  this mix of books and audios to death now, but I'm going to do
• 1:16:17
  it one last time, and that is to ask Luther and Andrew, where are
• 1:16:21
  we going next? I know we said last time, but I
• 1:16:23
  suppose we should say again. I.
• 1:16:27
  Think we're still I don't know if you 2 have finished it yet
• 1:16:31
  but I think we're still doing Ruby red is is next, which is a
• 1:16:37
  book that I have read so there's your teaser as to you know how I
• 1:16:43
  got along with that he's. Given us A1 line spoiler free
• 1:16:46
  review of that book so far, Luke, would you care to repeat
• 1:16:49
  that sentence? Ruby Red is a book I have read.
• 1:16:55
  That's not what you said. What did I say You.
• 1:17:00
  Said it's the worst one I've read for the book club so far.
• 1:17:03
  Yes, that is true Yeah yeah, sorry I I I saw a tweet trap one
• 1:17:11
  we read the excellent page and now I'm thinking of you 2 going
• 1:17:14
  like great now I read the read the shit one I.
• 1:17:18
  Think I chose Ruby read. Who chose that I.
• 1:17:21
  Think I chose Ruby. Down there, I point down there.
• 1:17:24
  It's my, it's my fault. But yeah, I think I haven't had
• 1:17:28
  as an as extreme a reaction as big as.
• 1:17:33
  I mean, I've kind of stalled, but I am enjoying it for what it
• 1:17:37
  is, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:17:38
  And I'm only halfway through, so yeah, I can't, can't judge it
• 1:17:42
  yet. And where are we going next?
• 1:17:47
  What are we doing? Well, we are.
• 1:17:49
  You tell. Me, we are going to be doing the
• 1:17:52
  what are we doing? We're currently listening to
• 1:17:55
  Skirt so. Oh yes, the.
• 1:17:56
  Divergent universe. Universe, yes, Yeah, we need to
• 1:18:01
  get through those, don't we? A very strange affair of bodies
• 1:18:04
  building history. Affair.
• 1:18:06
  Love spurned and yeah, yeah, well, there's only one way we
• 1:18:10
  can possibly finish this book club stroke, finish big episode,
• 1:18:14
  and that is to pretend it's not a book club episode and all end
• 1:18:17
  by saying finish big. OK, so do you want to do your
• 1:18:20
  ending? Everybody, what do we usually
• 1:18:23
  say? Just don't forget to.
• 1:18:26
  Finish. Finish.