Latest / Pod Save America / First Look At Trump's Second Term

Transcript

First Look At Trump's Second Term · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Detour.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Trump starts staffing his administration with some
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: of the worst people you know. And he also wants
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a Senate majority leader who will let him appoint whoever
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: he wants for his cabinet, administration, and even the judiciary
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: without any Senate confirmation. We'll also get into what we
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: know and still don't know about Trump's plans for his
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: second term, including the prospects for exacting revenge on his
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: political enemies. Then New York Congressman Pat Ryan, one of
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the Dems who hung on in a very tough district
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: by quite a lot, stops by to talk to Tommy
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: about how he pulled it off and what lessons the
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: party needs to learn. if we want to actually hold
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: power again. Wouldn't that be nice?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Does that pronounce power?
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Power.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: Power.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Power.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: But first, votes are still being counted in key Senate
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and House races. Here's what we know as of Monday afternoon,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: California time. In the Senate, Ruben Gallego has just about
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: won in Arizona, though the race hasn't been officially called
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: by anyone but Decision Desk HQ. Shout out to Decision Desk.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I think Kerry Lake's run out of runway there with
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the votes coming in.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Bob Casey is still behind in Pennsylvania, and while the
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: AP has called the race, many other outlets have not,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and Casey hasn't conceded because of the amount of votes
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: still out there. There's like 100,000 votes. That's a lot
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: of votes.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: A lot of votes. Take your time.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: A lot of provisional ballots.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Take your time.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: California's districts are like 38%, 45%. What's going on here?
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's Northern California that's the real problem.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I think L.A. County is doing much better than... Like,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Alameda's like at 40%. What's going on up there? I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: don't know. Consequently, Chuck Schumer did not invite Casey's Republican challenger,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Dave McCormick, to Senate orientation, though he didn't invite Gallego either.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not even going to get into that. Again, we're
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: talking here about a 47-seat minority versus a 48-seat minority
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: for Democrats. In the House, unfortunately, the fight to eke
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: out a Democratic majority is... All but over, Colorado Democrat
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Yadira Caraveo conceded her race. The count right now, according
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to the AP, is 204 Democrats to 214 Republicans with
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: 17 seats still undetermined. Democrats might still win a bunch
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: of these uncalled races, but right now it's looking like
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: a very narrow Republican majority, maybe even just one or
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: two seats smaller than last time, but still a majority.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Anything you guys have seen out there about the race
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: counts that's particularly hopeful or interesting?
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Nothing hopeful on the majority front, to be honest. I mean,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: there was a glimmer of hope in one of the
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: California races we're waiting on, which is George Whitesides is
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: a little ahead at the moment. The Republican incumbent, Mike Garcia,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: won that seat by six points in 2022, which gave
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: me a little hope maybe that like Derek Tran, Dave Min,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Will Rollins, and the other California Dems that we're waiting
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: on vote totals for might pull it out, but we
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I know. I saw that like Derek Tran- uh, had
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: a couple of good ballot dumps. And then I think
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: he fell behind again against, uh, Michelle Steele. Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I do think one, just like, look, there's been a
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: lot of quick and dirty takes about does field matter?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Does organizing matter? And then you look and you see
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that like Dave men may, may eke it out. Some
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: of those, uh, races in Nevada, we're going to eke
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: it out. And you just think like those house races
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: where a bunch of people from that listen to the show,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: got on buses and went and knocked on doors. Like
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: it will make the difference and it will make Republicans
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: jobs harder.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So also with Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin, Alyssa Slotkin in Michigan, uh,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: We had a number of Senate candidates who just, you know,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Jackie Rosen in Nevada, who like hung on by the
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: skin of their teeth.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Good candidates, good campaigns do matter. I mean, Carrie Lake
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: is going to underperform Donald Trump by eight points.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: And what's an enormous margin, which is some of the
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: worst underperformance of any other Republican except Deb Fischer, who
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: underperformed in relation because of Dan Osborne and Ted Cruz.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Ted Cruz underperformed Trump by more than Carrie Lake.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I want Colin to run back in an off year.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Exactly. That's what makes you think like if Colin Allred
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: was running in a midterm, like he could have done it.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So we saw how difficult it was for Mike Johnson
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: to get things through the last Congress and his margin
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: this time might be even tighter. A two or three
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: seat majority in the Senate isn't that big either. How
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: are you guys thinking about how much the final numbers
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: matter here and sort of the margins that Republicans will
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: have in both houses?
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, a very slim majority is tough to manage.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: And we've seen Speaker Johnson fumble the bag over the
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: last couple of years a few times. That said, I'm
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: worried that Johnson's job gets easier when he feels that
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: he is implementing the Trump agenda or when Trump feels
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: like he is implementing the Trump agenda. And he has
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: a bunch of members who are worried primarily about Trump
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: figuring out a primary challenger to them if they don't
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: go along with what he says. Now, long term, that
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: means that you could have a bunch of moderates taking
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of bad votes. that hurt them in the midterms.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: So that's a reason to be hopeful two years from now.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: But in the short term, it feels like they will
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: be a little more pliant.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. Look, I think
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: a slimmer majority is better. There will be, I think...
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: It also, I think, depends on what happens with Trump's popularity, right?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Like what happens as he starts to implement other policies
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: that start to draw a backlash. I also think just
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: how pliant the Senate is matters, right? Because you could imagine...
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: House Republicans kind of just passing things along. And then
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: the hope is that they get killed in the Senate.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: But I'm not as sure of that this time when
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: you have, we'll get to it, but Republican candidates for
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: majority leader kind of bending over backwards to suck Trump's cock.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So it's very like, that's sort of, please, please, please, sir.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: You know? And so I don't know.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: 2024 is a different vibe.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. Just trying to be the liberal Joe
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Rogan over here.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Classic. Such a bro.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Such a bro.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Do you think that I wouldn't? I guess I wouldn't
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: have said that if Kamala won. But I would have
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: said it before.
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: True.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump is basically, we'll get into this, but he's
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: basically going to be running the House and the Senate.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: He's never been known to be a master legislator, so
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that's cause for hope. And I do think, like Tommy said,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of these Republican, I don't even want to
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: call them moderates, we'll call them frontline members. But they
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: are going to be very vulnerable in 2026. And it's
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: going to be, you know, either like the rest of
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the House and Senate bend to their will to try
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to keep them from losing in 2026, or what's more
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: likely in the Republican Party, they just make them take
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: all those bad votes.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I think what I suspect, because I do think
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: they're going to be very worried about drawing the evil eye,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: as Tommy mentioned, but at the same time, they're going
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to be afraid of taking some really hard votes, as
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you see kind of behind the scenes wrangling to try
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to kind of take out the most offensive parts of
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: some of these proposals and then get them through and
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Trump doesn't give a fuck. So it's a clear victory.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Until Trump makes them pass the no elections until I
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: say so act of 2024.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I do think in the Senate, it's 47 versus
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: 48 here. So you got to think the Republican majority
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in the Senate is built on having Susan Collins, who's
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: going to be up again and maybe retiring and has
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: always been more moderate than the rest of her colleagues.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski, same thing. So on some of the real
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: crazy shit, you may lose Collins and Murkowski and Tom Tillis, right?
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Who's going to be up in North Carolina, a state
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: that when all is said and done, looks like it
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: performed better than some of the other swing states like
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Arizona and didn't swing nearly as much to the right
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: as the rest of the country. So, you know, those
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: three are senators to watch on some of the, again,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: they're going to go along with most of the shit,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: but on some of the truly crazy shit, I would
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: watch those three and figure out what the final count
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: is to really see how much trouble we're in. One
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: thing we do know about the new Trumpier Republican Senate
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: is that it's going to be very easy for Trump
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to get his top positions filled with whoever he wants.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Trump has already made quite a few staff announcements. Campaign
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: manager Susie Wiles will be his White House chief of staff,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a position that does not require Senate confirmation. Essentially, Wiles
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: has already served as Trump's chief of staff since 2021
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: when he was in political exile in Florida. even from
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Republicans in the wake of January 6th. She's a former
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: lobbyist known for working behind the scenes. She's like a
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: very well-known, very well-respected political operative in Florida, maybe one
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: of the best political operatives in Florida. Even Democrats have
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: praised her skills.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but second place is just an alligator with a hat.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: And of course, she's being given credit for running Trump's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: most disciplined campaign yet. How are we feeling about Susie Wiles, guys?
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to take away. I know.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: How are we feeling, Suze?
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I think he chose a confidant and a MAGA insider
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: versus a relative outsider, like even Reince Priebus, John Kelly,
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Mick Mulvaney, Mark Meadows, previous chiefs of staff. Those guys
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: were seen as knowing how the party worked or Congress
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: worked or being a general that could like install discipline
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: in some way. And she's just, you know, she's a
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: well-known Republican, but someone who is a part of MAGA
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: world and respected. And apparently the Don Jr. and the
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: kids wanted her to get the job. So I could
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: view it two ways, like the glass half full version
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: of is she's not a total right-wing ideologue. It could
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: have been Stephen Miller, who will be her deputy. That
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: really sucks, but it could have been worse. Wiles was
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: once a moderate. She started working with Jack Kemp at
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: the beginning of her career. I don't know what she
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: believes now. The glass half-empty version, though, is that she
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: has proven to be incredibly effective, and she could be
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: the kind of person that helps them get done things
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: they failed to get done last time because Steve Bannon
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: and Jared Kushner were fighting in the news or whatever.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: So I don't know. We'll see.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: It's also a question of whether she survives all of
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: those other assholes and the knife fighting and all that
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was sort of what I went back and
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: looked at what the write-ups were when Reince Priebus was named.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: And we forget how far the Republican Party has shifted
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: to Trump because a lot of that discussion was about
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: how Priebus was an olive branch to House Republicans and
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Senate Republicans. He was an establishment figure. and my fear
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: about someone like Susie Wiles is in the first Trump
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: administration you had the establishment types that were there in
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: their minds to kind of straightjacket Trump and then you
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: have the kooks who were there to let Trump loose
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: but were pretty incompetent and I feel like now not
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: only does Trump have control the Republican Party's know all
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: of branches needed in fact the branches are coming the
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: other fucking direction it's more competent and advisors who believe
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: it is their job to implement Trump's vision. And that
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: to me is what's scary about Susie Wiles because she does,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: she is just a behind the scenes operator. She is
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: a former lobbyist. And by the way, that's a word
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that I would be using more that Susie Wiles is
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: a lobbyist, uh, but, uh, yeah, that was my concern.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Pinning all my hopes on Susie Wiles. It shows you
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: how bad everything is. You know, I'm like, it is,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, would I rather Susie Wiles in charge than
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller or Stephen Bannon?
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, of course.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Michael Kruse at Politico had a great profile of her
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: in April, very long profile in Politico. She also worked
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: for Romney, Mitt Romney at some point. She's a self-described
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: moderate working for Trump.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: First woman to ever be chief of staff. That is
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: shocking in 2024. Also, Pat Summerall's daughter. Yeah.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: Crazy.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: A lot of that profile was about sort of her
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: relationship with him. And Carlos Curbelo, who's the former Republican
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: congressman from Florida who like lost and then became sort
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: of an ever-Trumper, said, if Donald Trump is going to
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: be president, I want Susie Wiles involved. So- You know,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: on the scale from inmates running the asylum to Committee
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to Save America. Remember Committee to Save America? They're back.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: You know, the first time around, I'll tell you though,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I was, we were, we all did this. We're like, oh,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the Committee to Save America, they suck. Why don't they
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: just come out and say he's awful and resign and
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: all their excuses about we're just there to try to
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: prevent the bad stuff from happening. I've had a bit
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: of a change of heart. Now, if there's people there
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: who want to be the Committee to Save America and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: want to try to stop bad things from happening, you
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: stick around.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Stick around. Do your best. Do your best. One of
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Susie Weil's deputies will be Santa Monica's own Stephen Miller,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Trump's former head speechwriter, who will now have the title
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: deputy chief of staff for policy. He'll be in charge
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: of Trump's deportation agenda, along with Tom Homan, who's Trump's
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: former acting head of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, or ICE,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: who will now be Trump's border czar. Homan is out
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: there acknowledging that the deportations will be large scale. But
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: he told Fox News on Sunday it's going to be a, quote,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: humane operation. And the Sunday Times of London that they're first, quote,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: going to concentrate on the worst of the worst. And
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: then it's going to be a lot different to what
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the liberal media is saying it's going to be. Any
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: idea what you guys think this might look like in reality?
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think this is sort of the worst
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: case when it comes to immigration. I talked to Jacob
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Soboroff a couple weeks ago on Pod Save the World.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: He is a great NBC reporter who did a lot
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: of reporting. He wrote a book about the family separation policy.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: And he said that Tom Homan was one of the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: main drivers of family separation in the Trump administration. And
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: the combination of Tom Homan and Stephen Miller make me
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: fear the absolute worst when it comes to immigration and
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: mass deportation. And I think it's just good to remember
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: that mass deportation is family separation on steroids. And Homan
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: has vowed to run, quote, the biggest deportation force this
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: country has ever seen. So they're not scaling this back.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: It's not also reassuring that the person who was a
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: champion of family separation is describing this as humane. A
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: former acting director of ICE under Obama just noted that
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: there aren't a million quote unquote criminals to get. If
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: you're starting to talk about those numbers, you're talking about
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: separating families. There are 4.5 million mixed status households. These
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: are people that will be swept up in it. I
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: do like they are there. You know, Donald Trump has
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: said every single version of what this could look like, right?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: He's described it as targeting the worst. He's describing as
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: getting all undocumented people in the country out. And my
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: fear about how this unfolds is they start with more
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: targeted approaches. They try to excite a liberal backlash that
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: they can paint as being a bunch of out-of-touch progressives
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: trying to defend the worst criminals. They kind of inure
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the public to slowly rising numbers of mass deportations until
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: we are seeing far more people being removed from the
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: country and it becomes Almost routine. So that's that is
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: my fear in the way. They're talking about this They
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: are trying to gin up that kind of the Liberals
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: are losing their minds. We're not going to do anything.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: That's my fear Yeah, so just to dig into what
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: they've said so far what he said what they've said
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: he has said that he told 60 minutes this in
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: an interview before the election and that they don't want
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: to do family separation, that families can be deported together
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to avoid separation.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's so nice, yeah.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And wants to go into sanctuary cities, go after sanctuary cities,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: said that if state or local officials block them and
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: won't offer help from the police, that he said, that's fine.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: ICE will just do it alone without police help. He
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: didn't say anything about, he said no military police needed,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: just ICE. He's got a lot of faith in ICE. Obviously,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: he's a former ICE guy. He said, quote, to CBS,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be building concentration camps. I've read
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it all. It's ridiculous. And then, of course, he said
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: he classifies the worst of the worst as people on
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the terrorist watch list. Criminal threats get prioritized. Which, by
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the way, the idea that the Biden administration is allowing
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants who've committed violent crimes to just run free
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: by choice and not because they haven't been able to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: be found by law enforcement is insane. But anyway, so
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that's what he says. And then, you know, in Project 2025,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: They specifically cite the first round of undocumented immigrants they
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: want to go after are people who committed felonies, crimes
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: of violence, DUIs, and previous removals. So if you have
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: been removed once before. Obviously, then remain in Mexico will
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: come back, which is Trump's policy of if you are
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: going to come here and ask for asylum instead of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: coming over the border and being detained here or allowed
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to stay here, you have to stay in Mexico. Biden
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: rescinded that, so they'll bring that back. What's still unknown...
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And this is the big stuff here. What happens with
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: TPS status? Vance and Trump both said they were going
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to rescind TPS status. That's what a lot of the
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Haitian migrants have in Ohio and Springfield, but also a
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: lot of other places. So they want to basically rescind.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: They have said in the campaign they would rescind TPS,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: but we don't.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Just to clarify what TPS is, TPS is Temporary Protected Status,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: which is something that's given to a group of people
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: that are coming here from a country that is so dangerous,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: you cannot return them to that country. So like Haiti,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: ever since the assassination of the president, was it 2021,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: has descended into war zone-like levels of violence. And the
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: idea of just plucking people out of Ohio and sending
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: them on planes back to Haiti and acting like they're
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: going to be okay there is ludicrous.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: And these people are, you know, they're legal again, and
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Trump and Vance and the rest of them say they're
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: not legal because they think that the action of giving
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: them temporary protected status was illegal is what they're saying,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: which is insane. Also unknown what happens with the dreamers,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: undocumented children of immigrants. Also just the working law abiding
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants who've been here for years, decades. We don't
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: know what's going to happen with that.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: People served in the military.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So those are all big question marks. They of
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: course haven't said anything about them yet. But we will see.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Just like that CBS interview is such bullshit. The idea
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: that this process is going to be neat and tidy
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: and families are going to go together as a package
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: and people aren't going to do everything they can to
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: protect their kids, to hide them, to give themselves up,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: to protect their families. Like, give me a fucking break.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: This is going to be family separation everywhere. Right.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: It's sort of a, well, if you don't want us
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: to separate your family, your child who speaks English, has
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: never been to Mexico, can leave with you and start
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: a new life from scratch in a country that your
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: child does not know.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Or you can leave your children behind and your spouse, potentially.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Look, I think this is where really good reporting is
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: going to come into play here because, like you said,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: if they start deporting and making a big show of
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: deporting people who have committed violent crimes here, then the
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: liberal backlash will only help them. But what we're going
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: to have to really watch for is them making a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: big show of that, but then quietly deporting you know,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: children and other people who, you know, any other Democratic
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: administration or even normal Republican administration would, you know, provide
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: a path to citizenship for.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Trump rescinded the family separation order.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Under backlash and scrutiny and negative press. And just, I
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: know sometimes we act as though gravity doesn't apply to him.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: He didn't like how it looked on TV.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Trump announced over the weekend that he will not be
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: inviting either Nikki Haley or Mike Pompeo to join his administration. Oh, no.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I guess because he enjoys publicly humiliating people who ran
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: against him or thought about running against him in Pompeo's case.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: He will instead be nominating the sycophantic, moderate-turned-MAGA congresswoman Elise
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Stefanik to be UN ambassador. The New York Republican is
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: currently the House conference chair. That's number three in the House.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And her departure would narrow the House majority even further
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: and trigger a special election. Tommy, what do we know
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: about her foreign policy views? And what is this signal,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: if anything, about Trump's foreign policy writ large?
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know that we know that much about her
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: foreign policy views. I mean, there's part of me that
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: thinks that Trump naming Elise Stefanik to the UN might
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: be the first and last time he ever says her name,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: you know, and just forgets that she exists. In reality,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: she will probably use the perch to do a bunch
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: of high profile things to defend Israel in various ways
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: and like reaffirm her bona fides there. Like she did
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: the hearings with the college presidents about anti-Semitism. What this
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: signals to me about foreign policy, I think is important.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Like the Nikki Haley thing didn't surprise me. She ran
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: against him. She stayed in a long time. She didn't
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: kiss the ring.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: And he knows he can't trust her. Yeah, totally right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: He doesn't trust her. She's not trustworthy.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Pompeo, though, was like, he's a MAGA loyalist. And I
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: think it's an important signal about the direction they're going.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: And I reached out to someone who's a very close
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Trump watcher to say, like, what do you think this means?
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: And this person said, this means that Don Jr. and J.D.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Vance are in charge of personnel right now. And the
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Pompeo in particular to me felt like those guys taking
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: like a neocon establishment head, cutting it off and sticking
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: it on a pike for all others to see as
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: they think about applying to jobs in the administration. And
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: it suggests that this time around, the national security team
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: will not be retired four-star generals and Jim Mattis and
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: squishy business guys like Rex Tillerson. It is gonna be
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: America first ideologues.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And- All those people are gonna be like, eh, fascist.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Don't even come near here.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: That's- Yeah, like last time- Trump generals. He was America
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: first on the streets, establishment cuck. in the sheets. I mean,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: so it doesn't bode well for Ukraine. It suggests Trump
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: will pull US troops out of, you know, Syria, Somalia.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: If I lived in Taiwan or South Korea, I would
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: be nervous. And look, not all of this is bad.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think there is popular support for some
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: parts of this agenda. There's clearly some of the like,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: you know, war on terror, US military establishment, you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: infrastructure that should be sunsetted at some point. But And
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: also silver lining that John Bolton is not going to
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: be in the administration, silver lining that ultra hawks like
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Tom Cotton are not even applying for jobs.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: But I viewed it as a big signal.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I was sort of surprised that Marco Rubio keeps getting
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: floated for a potential national security job because I'm like,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I know he is now extremely Trumpy, but he's still
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: a neocon enough that I feel like he does not
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: quite fit with the America first.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's been brought to heel. I mean, at
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: least Stefanik would, I think, Had she been around longer
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: before she made her turn, been a Marco Rubio type,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: at least by instinct. But they've shown themselves to be
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: quite pliant.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Just on the UN piece, the UN relies on the
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: US for about a third of its budget. There's all
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: these component parts to it that matter a lot to
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: people like us. We do half the funding for the
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: World Food Program. They'll probably pull out of the Paris
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Climate Accords. UNRWA, which does all the humanitarian relief in
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Gaza and the surrounding areas for Palestinians, will probably get
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: gutted again. I'm guessing RFK Jr. is not a big
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: fan of the World Health Organization, which is a part
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: of the UN, so there could be a lot of changes.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: You know, Elise Stefanik vacating that seat, now she won
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the district by quite a bit, but I don't know.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It's 80 days by New York state law to schedule
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: a special election after she officially vacates the seat. You
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: start off your first 100 days of the administration with
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: one less seat and an already very thin House majority. Also,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that's before any other potential Republican House members is a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: little dicey. It's getting close in the House majority there.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I can see why she wants the job, though.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: It's just sort of like being in opposition is fun.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: She loved being in opposition to Democrats. Now she gets
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: to be in opposition to the UN and all that
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: it represents to the right. It was also, it's funny
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: to think, too, like that was Nikki Haley's job. Yeah.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And now we've shifted from him putting in place kind
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: of more establishment type Republicans to someone who is completely
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: oiled in.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So Trump just announced he's nominating another New Yorker who
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: was in Congress, former Congressman Lee Zeldin, to be the
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: EPA administrator. A lot of New Yorkers get the nod.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Tom Homan, also from New York. His lifetime score from
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the League of Conservation of Voters is a whopping 14 percent.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: 14 percent better than a lot of Republicans.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: What do we know about Zeldin aside from the fact
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that he's a Trump loyalist and lost the governor's race
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: to Kathy Hochul?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I don't really know that we need to know much.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: He's expressed some climate skepticism, though he did join a
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: climate solutions caucus. It's interesting that we're going with Lee Zeldin,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: who doesn't have a big record on environmental issues. He's
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: a lawyer, right? He's a lawyer. Previous head of the
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: EPA was a coal lobbyist. That was who was there
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the first term. But I think we can just expect...
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: There's also somebody who voted against certifying the elections, a
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Trumpy guy.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, coal enthusiasts, you'll still have your.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: You'll be fine. But I think he is being sent
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: there to gut climate and clean energy regulations with gusto.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And that is what he will do, right?
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: That is the plan. Again, what the people asked for
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in the election. One last top government job to cover.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Trump and Fed Chair Jerome Powell famously do not get along.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: After appointing Powell in 2017, Trump reportedly spent the rest
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: of his administration second-guessing the decision. That's new. And in 2018,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: per the Wall Street Journal, Powell even considered footing his
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: own legal bills to hold onto the job if Trump
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: fired him. Now the question is whether Trump is still
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: flirting with firing Powell, whose term ends in 2026, as
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: some of Trump's supporters want him to. Powell has a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: different idea. Here he is at a news conference last Thursday.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: Some of the president's elect advisors have suggested that you
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: should resign.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: If he asked you to leave, would you go?
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: No. Can you follow up on it? Do you think
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: that legally you're not required to leave? No.
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: Do you believe the president has the power to fire
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: or demote you, and has the Fed determined the legality
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: of a president demoting at will any of the other
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: governors with leadership positions?
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: Not permitted under the law.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Not what?
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: Not permitted under the law.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I love that that's it. That's all they gave. No, no,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: not permitted under the law. What do you guys think
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Trump will do here?
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Fucking nuts.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: What can he do?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, Republicans believe that Democrats can't fire
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: anyone and Republicans can fire whoever.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: They want, right?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: They believe that federal power rests solely in the executive
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: and that if Congress has tried to limit that, that
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that's an unconstitutional use of their power. So I'm sure
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: they would want to take this all the way to
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court if they could. The question is, does
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: he want that fight? I have no fucking idea.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I love a scrappy nerd.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: You know, battle back. I feel like there's three options.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Trump says, I'm firing you for cause. They battle it
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: out in a conservative court. Trump probably wins that. Second,
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: he could ask, you know, supporters in Congress to put
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: forward legislation, putting the Fed fully under his control. I
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: think Mike Lee, Republican Senator, has put forward such a
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: proposal in the past. Or the like super authoritarian version
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: is have some treasury staffers go down to his office,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: pack up his shit, put it on the sidewalk and
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: be like, you're gone.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I think that my guess on this one is that
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Trump doesn't do, well, so a senior advisor told CNN
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: he's likely to let Powell stay, but you know, it's
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Trump world. So who knows what the senior advisors take
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: them at their, take it with a grain of salt.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I think that the Supreme Court has ruled before that
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: if Congress has created the agency that's independent, the president
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the authority to do this, but we'll see.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And I think that Trump probably doesn't want the fight. Although,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you know, just wait until people are pissed that interest
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: rates haven't come down fast enough, even though he's going
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to do, you know, another rate cut, and people are
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: still pissed about high mortgage interest rates and car loans
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, and then Trump gets mad, then,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you know, I guess then we'll see. I.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: But, like, yes, my... Trump, like Trump, that's what he
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: did as president. We've lived through this already. He likes
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: to work the refs at the feds. He wants to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: kind of push them and push them and push them.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: So we'll see if that gets him what he wants
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: or if he feels like he's done enough or if
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: he wants to go further.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: But I tank the markets.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Does he want to have the fight? Does he want
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: to have the fight?
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Right. Knowing that the fight could affect the markets and
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want he doesn't want that. One position that
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Trump's trying to exert control over is Republican Senate majority leader.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Rhino Trump hater Mitch McConnell is stepping down. Not going
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: to have Mitch to kick around anymore. And going into
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the weekend, it seemed like the front runners to replace
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: him were South Dakota's John Thune and Texas's John Cornyn,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: both of whom have served in Senate leadership for quite
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: a while. But then Trump posted over the weekend that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: whoever becomes leader needs to be willing to adjourn the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Senate so that Trump can staff his cabinet and administration
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: without Senate confirmation, a maneuver known as recess appointments. Thune
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and Cornyn kind of sort of agreed, but not as
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: enthusiastically as Florida Senator Rick Scott, who had been a
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: dark horse candidate until Magoworld decided that he's their favorite.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And the other two are now rhinos. Scott has now
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: gotten endorsements from Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, RFK Jr., Charlie Kirk, Vivek,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the whole gang, the whole gang. Benny Johnson even posted
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: a whip count to pressure Republican senators. So far, Scott
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: has actual Senate endorsements from five senators, including Marco Rubio.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Playbook reported this morning that the outside pressure to elect
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Scott is creating a backlash among Senate Republicans who will
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: be voting for this position via secret ballot. But what
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: do you guys think? Does the secret ballot save the
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: people who don't want Scott?
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about 100 people.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: That's what I think.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: 53 people. Yeah, right. Sorry, you're right.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, the 100 senators. I mean, this is not
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: going to be that hard. Like, journalists do whip counts.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: They're going to ask, who did you vote for?
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: That's what's going to happen.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: They're going to haul them on TV. You go to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Sean Hannity. You tell us who you voted for. Yeah.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: So I don't know. And I don't have any faith
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: in these guys finding a spine because, you know, again,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Trump can find someone who's up in 2026, float a
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: primary challenge to them. They freak out and move on.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: One of the one of the rhino cucks that that
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: the mag world went after for his support of John Thune,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Josh Hawley. It's getting shit.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: This is all I really like. It's all just sort
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: of like they've decided Rick Scott is better versus these
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: other two. A part of me at some point thinks
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: like Trump is going to have to brush back the
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Elon Tucker public kind of wrangling to make clear the
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: decisions are coming from him.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: I bet it's coming from Don Jr. to those guys.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Do you think Elon Musk has, we'll talk about this
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: in a second, do you think Elon Musk has ever
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: thought about recess appointments before? before he tweeted about it
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: the other day. I'm guessing zero. No, he's being fed
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: this for sure. It feels coordinated. I mean, also, could
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: you talk one second about what a failure Mitch McConnell is?
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Because he was like, he didn't vote to impeach. He
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: turtled at every Trump demand because he said he wanted
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: to protect the institution of the Senate and protect the party. Well,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: now your power is getting gutted, buddy. Great job.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Now your boss is going to be Rick Scott.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Because we did a fair amount of blaming Joe Biden,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and I'm glad we did that. but Mitch McConnell deciding...
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: He's the reason we're here. He is the reason we're
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: here because I do think, like, if Nikki Haley had
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: been the candidate or one of these other Republicans had
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: been the candidate, I'm not sure they would have done worse.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I think they probably would have done a lot better
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: and then we wouldn't be dealing with Donald Trump's bullshit
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: and chaos for four years. That is on Mitch McConnell.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Practical difference between Majority Leader Thune or Cornyn and Majority
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Leader Scott. I mean, I think it's like... I think
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: with Scott, it's just... Well, first of all, Scott's an idiot.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: But it's also, it would be like there's zero daylight
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: between Rick Scott and Donald Trump. And I don't think
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: there'd be much daylight between John Thune or John Cornyn
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and Donald Trump. But again, when we're talking like, if
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: we're talking really crazy shit from Donald Trump, like at
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the extremes, like you could imagine a Thune or a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Cornyn not wanting to default on the debt or something
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: like that. I don't know.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: This goes back to what John, and there's one point
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to make too, because this is why
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the KCC matters. But if KC doesn't eke it out,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: you can't imagine votes where they let a Tillis, a Collins,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and a Murkowski go and bring J.D. Vance in to
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: break the tie, right? And then it really is about
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: what the Senate majority is willing to do with his majority, right?
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: And I do think Rick Scott is, for that reason,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I think a little bit more sleazy than the other two,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: which is probably what Tucker and the rest of them
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: have figured out as well. Yeah, I mean, look, I
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: think it's the difference between having a leader in the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Senate who has respect for the institution and respect for
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: himself and one who does not. Uh, and there are
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: probably some very fringe unqualified people that could get through
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: a Rick Scott led, uh, Senate, but not a John
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Thune led Senate. Like, uh, a lot of even MAGA
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: types think Laura Loomer is toxic. You know, remember she
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: was on the plane with Trump at the end. Apparently,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: according to Tim Albert is reporting, there were lots of
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: even MAGA people that were like, Hey, get her off.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: She's toxic. Uh, Rick Scott recently went on her podcast
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: and defended her. So, you know, the, the, the maybe
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: some bright side for Democrats is, Rick Scott is a
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: repellent figure. He has proven himself to be very bad
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: at politics. And at a time when there is this
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: big populist surge, this is a dude who ran a
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: company that defrauded Medicare. You know, I mean, he's like
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: the richest member of the Senate or one of the
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: richest members of the Senate. He fined $ 1. 7 billion at
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: the time.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: He also put forward that plan. To got Medicare and
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Social Security. That became a huge liability that all these
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Republicans had to run away from.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I realize that Trump is the billionaire rich guy who
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't code as a billionaire. But we got Elon, Rick Scott.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: It's getting really.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Lobbyist.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Susie Wiles.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: A lot of.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Oligarchs up there.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I do think, you know, I'm looking forward to hopefully
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: all of these people eventually knifing each other, the Elons,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the Trumps, the Don Juniors, the Rick Scotts, like it can't,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: you know, the honeymoon can't last forever.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: You know, you got Elon jumping on calls with Zelensky
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: and Trump. Jesus Christ.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: He did such good work at Twitter. Let's talk about
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: the recess appointment thing because maybe it doesn't matter who
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: is the majority leader in the Senate because Trump gets
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: everyone confirmed without the Senate. Anyone want to briefly explain
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: what a recess appointment is and whether Trump can actually
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: staff his cabinet and confirm judges without the Senate?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: So a recess appointment, the Constitution allows the president to
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: fill vacancies when the Senate is in recess. What does
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: it mean for the Senate to be in recess? That
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: has been something that's been litigated and controversial. The Obama
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: administration tried to use recess appointments when the Senate was adjourned,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: but they had technically not been in recess because Republicans
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: were trying to stop the Obama administration from filling vacancies.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: The court ruled against the Obama administration in that fight.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: But basically, it boils down to, this is what you've
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: seen Cornyn and Thune and Rick Scott talking about, is
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: basically what happens if Democrats don't allow the Senate to adjourn,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: keep it in a kind of pro forma session, because
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: They don't have enough to break a filibuster to get
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the Senate out. What will Donald Trump do and what
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: will Senate Republicans do? And the question is, will Senate
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Republicans use kind of procedural maneuvers to get around this
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: rule to allow Trump to fill cabinet vacancies, fill lower
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: office vacancies, and potentially even fill judicial vacancies up to
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: and including the Supreme Court?
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Steve Vladek, who is a legal expert, been on strict
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: scrutiny a bunch, he thinks that the motion to adjourn
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: is not subject to filibuster and that you don't need,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter what the Democrats want because all
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: you need is a simple majority. You need the Senate
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: majority leader, who in this case would be Thune, Scott,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: or Cornyn, to just say, we're in recess, adjourn the Senate,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: and then Trump can just confirm anyone he wants.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So what's interesting about that is, That may be what
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: they get to. But that's not like even Cornyn was saying,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: if the Democrats try to keep the Senate in session,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: we'll make them vote. We'll make them stay.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: That's because he's a rhino cuck.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I just like, yeah, like maybe let's keep Vladek's
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: fucking piece away from Cornyn. But the filling judicial vacancies
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: thing is scary because there's even the Vladek was talking
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: about how long those appointments would last. And even if
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: those are appointments that just last until the end of
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: the next term. congressional session.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Because that's what they're supposed to. If you do a judge,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: it's not the judge gets a lifetime appointment through recess appointments.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: They would have to eventually be confirmed once the Senate adjourns,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: which would be in the end of the next session.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Or recess appointed again.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Or recess appointed again.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: If Donald Trump just keeps winning.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: So that would just be the ability of Donald Trump
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: to put anyone on the court without any check whatsoever.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: As long as the Republicans in power, basically. Once a
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Democratic Senate or Democratic president came to power, all those
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: judges would then have to be.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. For the next two years.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: I think the thing you need to know is recess
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: appointments made sense when the Senate was first formed and
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: the Senate was not in session for months at a
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: time and people were riding to Washington on horseback, right?
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: So the president needed to be able to fill slots.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: That authority has been narrowed over time, as Levitt noted.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: But I think in practice, what this means is all
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: the people running for Senate majority leader, all these Republicans
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: are just handing over a giant part of their job.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: They're just taking the knee, bending the knee to Donald
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Trump on day one saying our advising consent authority to
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: vote on your nominees and vet them and hold hearings. We'll,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: we'll happily give it up if you'll be nice to us.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I, you know what I'll say, this is
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: in terms of public outrage or whatever, I think it
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: is a smart thing for them to do because I
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: do not think And this is why we are big
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: on getting rid of the filibuster, because it's one that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I do not think the public will care about or
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: there'll be backlash to. People don't usually give a shit
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: about process stuff. And so a bunch of people screaming,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, the Senate has been adjourned. What are
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: we going to do? Now, it depends on who he nominates.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: The scary thing here is the idea that Trump has
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: a 53 or 52 seat Senate majority and still needs
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: to do all these recess appointments, like he should be
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: able to confirm a lot of these folks with just
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: a majority vote, unless he wants, you know, Mike Flynn
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to come back and some of the real fucking kooks.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: So I, I, yeah. So then the question is right.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Like these guys are bending over backwards because they want
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: this job. They are leaving themselves out when they like,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: at least Thune and Cornyn did when they, when they,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: when they talked about this to basically say how fast
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: they want to move and to lay it at the
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: feet of Democrats. They want to blame Democrats. I think
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: there will be some nominees that Republicans genuinely would like
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: to stop And then there are some nominees that Republicans
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: don't particularly like, but are more worried about the politics
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: for themselves and would happily allow them to be a
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: recess appointment. That said, we went this, we went through
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: this before. And also Donald Trump can also do a
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: lot of acting.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Positions, right? A lot of options.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: So I like, I am worried about it too, because
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I don't, it's not very, it's very disheartening to see
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: these guys immediately just say like, no, no, no, the
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Senate doesn't exist anymore. You know, you can govern by fiat.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: We're fine.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, he has a lot of
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: ways to get around this without ever having to get
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: to recess appointments. And I assume that's what they'll want
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: They'll want to have a threat hanging over. Yes.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: It's just instructive. I think that like hour one is
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: just filled with these power grabs. Oh, I'm taking the Fed,
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: taking recess appointments. I want all these things. I mean,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: it sort of confirms a lot of the worst authoritarian
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: concerns about him.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Trump also truth that he doesn't want Republicans to approve
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Biden judicial nominees in a lame duck session before Democrats
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: lose power. Like, OK, there was no danger of that anyway.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: But he can't control that.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: No. I mean, the only thing he can do, right,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: is this. I saw some questions like, will Republicans be
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: absent during this time? And that will allow Democrats to
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: get to some votes quicker. And then there's Joe Manchin,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: who said he will not confirm anybody that doesn't have
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Republican support. So this would prevent. Basically, there might be
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: some judges that could have garnered some kind of Republican support.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump saying this makes that nearly impossible. So then
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: it really comes down to what Kyrsten Sinema is willing
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: to do in the last couple of weeks.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: But I also think with Manchin too, if there's been
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a bunch of judges in the pipeline that haven't gotten
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: a vote and, you know, a lot of them probably
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: may have gotten support from their home state Republican senator,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I would bet Manchin counts that as part of his support,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: even if they renege on it. But that's just Trump saying,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: you know, his bullshit stuff. One other big topic before
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: we get to Congressman Pat Ryan. Whether Trump will make
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: good on his threats to use the federal government to investigate, prosecute,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: or audit his enemies. Peter Nicholas at NBC News had
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: a lengthy story about this. Today, there was some justifiable
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: hand-wringing of folks like former Trump national security official Olivia Troy,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: who appeared in ads against him. She said she's pretty nervous,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: worried about threats to her or her family. Trump, of course,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: talked a lot about using the military on the enemy
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: within in the latter stages of the campaign. and identified
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi as being on that list,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: whatever that means. Trump, of course, has also said that
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: success would be his revenge. On the other hand, J.D.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Vance seemed to say on Joe Rogan that they'd be
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: revoking the security clearances of the national security people who
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: signed a letter in 2020 questioning some of the Hunter
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Biden laptop stuff. Might not sound like a huge deal,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: but it would mean a lot of people potentially losing
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: their jobs. The NBC story also quoted Mark Zaid, a
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: prominent D.C. lawyer who represented one of Trump's impeachment witnesses
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and various other anti-Trump whistleblowers, as saying he's advising certain
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: clients to leave the country until it's clear what the
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: new administration is going to do. First of all, just
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: for the sake of everyone's blood pressure, what do we
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: think counts as an enemy? Who do we think counts
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: as an enemy here?
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: Seems like people who turned on him who he views
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: as directly responsible for something around the 2020 election. I mean,
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: I think if I were Michael Cohen, this former lawyer,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: I'd be pretty worried about lawfare. But, you know, there's
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: a more expansive list, depending on who's in charge of,
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: you know, which personnel gets picked. There's this guy, Kash Patel,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: who was sort of a hardcore MAGA sycophant. He has
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: said on a podcast with Steve Bannon, quote, we are
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: going to come after the people in the media who
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: lied about American citizens. who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: We're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: We'll figure that out. But yeah, we're putting you all
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: on notice. Kash Patel, someone who's been floated for CIA director,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: FBI director, top national security jobs. Mike Flynn, former national
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: security advisor, tweeted a threat at Barack Obama. Trump has
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: threatened retaliation against Michelle Obama. So we don't know the
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: honest answer.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to take a second. One week ago,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: we recorded our pod before the election about how hopeful
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: we were. And it's one week later and we are
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out who exactly constitutes an enemy. And
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: that is terrifying. And so like, I don't know that
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: we can take the blood pressure down just yet. And
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know that we should. Like what strikes me
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: from what they've been saying is basically going after people's
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: clearances is something they can do pretty easily. And I
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: think one thing we have learned over the years is
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: when you start going after somebody's clearances, it's true of
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump, also true of Hillary Clinton, also true of
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, you find lapses, you find mistakes. You go
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: through what Olivia Troy has said in every media appearance
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: for a year, that they can drum up something to
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: claim she violated some security clearance and revealed some classified information.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: And so I do think that that alone is pretty terrifying, right?
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Because there's, I don't know how many Hundreds of thousands,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: millions of people that have cleared, too many people have clearances,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: as Tommy's talked about. And that, like, the chilling effect
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: of this, all these people whose, either their jobs depend
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: on having a clearance because they're inside the government or
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: they're outside of the government, or they're outside of government
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: now and commentating and afraid of what happens if they
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: speak honestly about Donald Trump for fear that they'll be
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: targeted for abusing their clearance. Like, I think that is
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: just that before you get to some of the more
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: outlandish and wild accusations is pretty scary. Yeah.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: There's also a version of this where it's like Trump
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: at his events started making a part of his stump speech,
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: this litany of complaints about Nancy Pelosi and stock trades.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: So you could imagine him directing DOJ or the SEC
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: to investigate her for insider trading. But there's a softer
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: version that's similar to what you're saying, Levitt, which is like,
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know, you just put out word to all
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: the big law firms in town that anyone who worked
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: for Jack Smith or for the Biden DOJ, you shouldn't
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: hire them if you want any business before us, stuff
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: like that. So like, There's a less authoritarian version that's
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: just sort of intimidation.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is still pretty authoritarian, but I know what
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: you're saying, not overt. Because I do think, right, all
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: this could happen. Let's talk about like the politics for
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration, right? Because let's pretend that it, let's
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: just stipulate that Trump doesn't have a change of heart
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: and decides to lay off everyone because he's, you know,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: he's seen God now that he's almost been assassinated twice, right?
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: But there are political considerations too for doing this, right?
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: And if you were the Trump administration, you would probably
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: want to not... generate too much sound and furor by
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: going after too many people or too many high-profile people
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: at once. I'm just trying to think of various guardrails
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that could, if we look back and be like, oh,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: he didn't end up doing all this stuff, why not?
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I think it would be because you don't want a
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: backlash from going after high-profile people like the Obamas, the Bidens,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. Or you know, it's, there's a bunch
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: of people in the justice department that are still career
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: officials and that they don't get rid of the whole
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: justice department and they don't want to do this.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Already though, right? Like you're, you're just describing the people
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: that have already tried to hold Donald Trump accountable for
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: his malfeasance in the past. Donald Trump is running an
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: ongoing criminal operation. There's going to be the most corrupt
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: administration in history. And so already just by having this
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: gun on the mantle of threatening people threatening enemies, even
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: if he doesn't act on it, even if he waits,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: he is already going to prevent the whistleblowers that came
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: forward in the past. They may be much more reluctant
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: to do it this time. Because think about the people
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: that spoke out against Donald Trump at great personal risk,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: testified before Congress, testified at impeachment inquiries, only to watch
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: him be acquitted and then elected president again. We let
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: those people down specifically.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: And I don't know who is going to stick their
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: neck out. Everyone's ready to toss her over the side
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: because Kamala dared to campaign with her once.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: You know, it's fucking, I mean, look, no, I totally agree.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: And it's very, this is all operating within the realm
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: of like, it's bad. Yeah. Like it could be, it
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: could be, it's like, is it going to be bad?
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Is it going to be worse? Is it going to
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: be the worst? What do you guys think about potential
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: political backlash? Do you think it wouldn't generate that much?
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Do you think?
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: It depends on who it is. I think it's a
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: person people haven't heard of. It's a one day story.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: And then that person deals with legal bills and scary
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: meetings with FBI people and no one gives a fuck.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I worry about.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just, you know, we did round after round
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: after round, which is very cynical, but like we did
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: these rounds of stories like we did this already. We
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: did this already. Trump going after his enemies or his
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: enemies going after, you know, whistleblowers going after Trump. And
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: it generates tons of headlines, generates tons of attention, generates hearings.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: It even generates generated two impeachments. But ultimately, I think
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: millions upon millions of people dismiss it as noise.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: He is a he is a convicted felon who's about
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: to be president again. All right. When we come back
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: from the break, you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Congressman Pat
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Ryan about how he pulled off a 13 point win
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: in a heavily targeted swing district. But before we do that,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: in case you missed it, the hosts of Strict Scrutiny
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: have a new episode breaking down what last week's election
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: means for the future of the Supreme Court and state courts.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: We all love Strict because it helps us make sense
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: of how the legal system works without needing a law degree.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: It's smart and funny, focuses on really important issues without
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: feeling like homework. So subscribe to Strict Scrutiny wherever you
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts and on YouTube. When we come back,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Pat Ryan. After this brutal election, we.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Are trying to talk with as many smart people as
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: possible about what the hell happened and how we can
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: fix it. That is why we invited Congressman Pat Ryan
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: to the show today to discuss his experience running and
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: winning overwhelmingly, I should say, in a swing district in
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: New York. Congressman, great to see you again.
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you guys for having me. I think it was
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: after another election win over two years ago you had
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: me on. And so it's awesome to be with you.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: I'm a huge fan. And especially in this moment, I
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: appreciate that we're all going to do some soul searching here.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's soul-searching time. And I do want to note
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: that we schedule this interview around your kids' nap time,
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: which is how you know Pat is a real one
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: and not one of those elites that we're all mad at.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: So you represent the 18th district of New York. Joe
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Biden won the 18th by, I think, eight points in 2020.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: Kamala Harris only won it by two points this cycle,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: while you won it by about 13 points. One of
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: the counties you represent, Orange County, swung nine points to
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: the right at the presidential level. but you won Orange
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: County by seven points. So obviously, you were doing something
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: right that the presidential level was not. But just to start,
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: can you give us a sense of the makeup of
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: your district and who you think your voters are?
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so we're an hour and a half
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: to two hours straight north of New York City. And
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: it's a mix of the southern part of my district
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: is essentially the northern suburbs of New York City, you
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: have NYPD cops, FTNY firefighters, a lot of folks that
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: work in and out of New York City. And then
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: the further north you go, you have more ex-urban, more rural,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: a lot of agricultural communities and farms. But we also
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: have along the sort of tight corridor of New York City,
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: some very affluent cities like Beacon and Rhinebeck that are
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: highly educated and quite progressive. And then we have nine
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: universities from Bard and to West Point, my alma mater.
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: So it's a, I think a good bellwether of the
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: complexity of our great country, you know? And, and, you know,
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: it's about, slight, slight Democratic enrollment advantage, but a huge
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: number of independent, you know, not party aligned voters.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: So that's interesting. And you wrote this really interesting thread
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: about how, you know, you feel like you were able
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: to win in this, you know, eclectic makeup, swingy district
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: in this political climate, it was obviously terrible for Democrats.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: And I do want to get to that in a second.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: But first, I mean, I'm curious what you make of
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: why Biden and then Harris lost so much support from
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: 2020 to 2024, both in your district, but also across
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: New York State, because you know, on election day, it
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: was less surprising to me to see Trump win a
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: bunch of highly contested, swingy battleground states. But it was
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: very surprising to see Trump make huge gains in non
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: battleground states like New York and New Jersey. And I'm
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: curious what you made of that.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's a little more complicated in New York.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: I think there's a huge difference between like the New
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: York City numbers and results versus actually these battleground house districts,
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: which we can talk about that if you want. But
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: At the macro level, I think it's like there's two pieces.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: There's substance and style. On the substance, we just completely
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: missed where people are. Everybody, not Democrats, Republicans, not Latinos
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: or white, not young or old, like everybody is dealing
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: with this essentially existential affordability crisis. And if we weren't
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: talking about that every day, I just think you weren't
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: you know, connecting with people around their major, major pain
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: point that they've been dealing with for many years now.
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: On the style too, though, I think like, I mean,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: I really prioritize, you talked about our Orange County numbers,
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: which I'm super proud of. We had lost this county
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: by seven or 8% two years ago. We won it
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: by seven or 8%. And it was because we just
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: worked the district. Like I prioritize going to every single
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: community there, especially the redder, more Trumpy communities. We did
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: this mobile cares van, which my staff made fun of
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: me for, but it's like, we went to all 82
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: of our towns over and over and over and did
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: constituent services and did listening sessions and just really showed
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: up and truly listened and then did everything we could
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: to deliver and really show the fight that we were
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: fighting for people. So I think like anything, it's a
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: combo of substance and style and neither alone are both necessary,
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: neither alone are sufficient.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I want to get into both the substance
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: and the style debates and also just be honest and
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: acknowledge that, you know, kind of some of the tactics
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: available to you as a member of Congress representing a
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: district are not available to Kamala Harris, right? Because she
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: can't go to every county or every part of the
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: country all the time. But, you know, in your Twitter thread,
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: you wrote, quote, it's not enough to throw these seemingly
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: disparate policies at people. We must articulate a unifying principle
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: and clearly tell folks who's at fault. For me, it
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: was freedom and patriotism. And the fault lies with the
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: same elites in both parties who have run this country
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: for too long. First question, can you unpack the kind
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: of freedom frame a little bit so voters know what
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: that means or so listeners know what that means? And
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: then second, I mean, again, just in fairness to Kamala Harris, like,
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: do you think she could credibly deliver that kind of
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: message after spending four years as the VP?
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And I was feeling pretty feisty in that Twitter thread. So, uh,
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: forgive that. Um, I think we're all feeling feisty right
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: now and some other efforts.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Um, yeah, but, um, Yeah.
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, to me, I've been obsessed with, especially my
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: district being the home to FDR and spent a lot
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: of time as presidential library, got to hold his for
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: freedom speech in my physical hands, which as a huge
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: nerd was awesome and very impactful for me. And I
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: think that this, in fact, I know freedom is the
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: most unifying American value at a values level, setting aside
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: politics and we could debate what the, what freedom means,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: but If we don't start from a place of like
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: common values alignment where people can feel they have a
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: home to come to, even if they don't agree on
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: every single component, we're just already, I think, hurt out
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: of the gate. And so I talked about reproductive freedom,
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: of course, given everything that happened in the last few years.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: I talked obsessively about economic freedom and echoing FDR's freedom
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: from want. I talked about freedom to breathe clean air
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: and water, freedom from gun violence, a lot of other freedoms.
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: And we really, I think, gave a place for people
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: to feel like they could come out and vote for
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: something instead of just against something. I know all this
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: feels like a little cliche, obviously, but we really felt
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: that on the ground. And I think you're right. It's
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: obviously much harder at a presidential national race to do
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: constituent services in the way we did. Um, but I
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: think we have to think about that. Like it's a
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: team sport, right? We have a, we have a team,
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: we have a brand. And if we all work together,
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: you can see people should know, Oh, Hey, that Democrat
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: is representative, like did a pretty good job. And I
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: can kind of project that other Democrats would, would share
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: that sort of ethos and understanding and, and, and work ethic.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: And I think we have a lot of room to
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: improve clearly in, in that area. Um, But I also
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: just think it's a message discipline thing. I mean, we
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: were just, I was obsessed with affordability and costs and
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: talking about all the dynamics and localizing it with specificity.
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: Like the single biggest issue I talked about was a
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: battle with one of our local utility monopolies that had
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: totally screwed up their billing. Like thousands of people were
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: irreparably harmed, savings accounts wiped out by auto pay. And
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: we actually helped people with that in a very tangible,
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: visceral way. And I think those things matter and also
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: show our willingness to take on big corporate power, but
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: in a way that's not just bumper sticker, but real.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: Well, staying on this economic piece and speaking of spicy statements,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you saw Bernie Sanders statement, the Democrats have
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: abandoned the working class. I read that statement for Bernie
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: and on some level felt like, yeah, he has a point.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Democrats need to do more to deliver for working people
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: in this country. But on the other hand, we all
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: know the realities that like Biden worked with Bernie and
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: to do a bunch of populist stuff, including the child
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: tax credit, capping insulin at $ 35, support for unions, the
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: list goes on. And voters decided, no, we're going to
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: vote against the Democrats who did the populist stuff and
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: for the Republicans that fought against those accomplishments and voted
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: against those accomplishments. Similarly, they saw Joe Biden walk on
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: a picket line with unions and they voted for Donald Trump,
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: who says he's going to put Elon Musk, a guy
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: who once said, I disagree with the idea of unions
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: in charge of government efficiency or spending. And I'm wondering
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: how you make sense of that disconnect.
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: I still think it's a little bit, particularly for voters
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: feeling torn or paying less attention because of all the
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: other pressures in their lives, it's still a little bit
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: too policy deep and not enough sort of upstream of
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: politics values level alignment first. And I just think we
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: lost a group of people around not really connecting with them,
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: whether that's the in-person ways that I talked about at
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: a congressional house level, whether it's just actually what we
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: choose to focus on from a message discipline perspective and
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: what we don't choose to necessarily focus on. But I
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: think you got to start with the people trusting that
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: you're for them. And if they don't think you're for them,
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: all the rest just doesn't matter. I mean, So it's like,
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: what can you do to really show, not tell, but
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: show that you're for people? And in a lot of
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: cases in my district, that was like literally helping them
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: recover money from the IRS or getting them a passport.
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: We have to figure out how to make government actually
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: deliver for people, even if in small ways, to start
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: from a place of trust. Then you can work on
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: the bigger complex pieces, whether that's addressing climate change, infrastructure,
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: economic inequality, like We can't expect people to trust us
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: on those if we can't just like actually do the
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: blocking and tackling well and show up over and over.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: And I think it's like there's no shortcut here. We
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: just actually have to rebuild ground up.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, on this cultural front, you know, Andrew Breitbart,
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: I think famously said that politics is downstream of culture.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Democrats are soul searching and attacking each other on that front, too.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: Some people say Democrats are elitist and annoying, and that's
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: why we lost Others blame COVID policies and lockdowns and masking.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: Others say Democrats are too focused on identity politics. Your colleague,
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Seth Moulton, said Democrats were too worried about offending people
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: and not honest about voter concerns about transgender athletes and
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: youth sports. Do any of those buckets or this broader
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: critique seem relevant to you based on the conversations you
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: had with real voters?
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: I'm not like a big finger pointing negative person, obviously.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: it was a devastating loss, not just politically, but I
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: would argue morally in the country to have Trump in
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: the White House again. And I say this as somebody who,
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: you know, a lot of people voted for him and
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: voted for me in my district mathematically, but I've always
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: been very clear and upfront about who he is and
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: I think the threats and risks and the harm that
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: he will do viscerally. But I just think we got
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: to move forward. I mean, we just have to take
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: the energy we have and talk about how to do
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: better rather than the finger pointing and the blame. And
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: to me, it's an actual opportunity. I know that maybe
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: it's a little too soon to say that, but I'm
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: trying to be glass half full and to really lean
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: into something. I think, unfortunately, in the next two years,
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: we will see Trump's true colors again, as we saw
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: for four years. And people are going to need a
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: place to come to after they really remember and see
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: Trump 2.0 on steroids. And we have the moment now
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: to build that. And to me, it is a patriotic
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: place that we have to create. And I would argue
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: almost like a patriotic populism. I'm still thinking about the
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: language here. Don't hold me to that one. But I
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: think that is the alternative. Trump is a destructive populist.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: We need to be, I believe, constructive and unifying and
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: positive while still being clear about the macroeconomic inequality and
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: the immediate economic pain around affordability people are dealing with.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the PP part. Well, there we go.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: Your old would agree with that.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I tell you, I would love that.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Well, let me try it this way.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: Why do you think Democrats got coded as elite Democrats? Well,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump, a guy who is like famous for being
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: rich and elitist and famous and a former president.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: Because he's just real and no, I don't know if
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: I'm allowed to curse, just no bullshit. Like, just be
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: straight up and tell me if I can't curse because
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: I'm a pretty kind of a guy.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Curse away.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: I just, I mean, there's so many already anecdotes coming
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: out from this campaign and we've all heard them for years. Like,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: I don't like a lot of things. I mean, I
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: literally read a quote today. If someone views him as
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: an authoritarian, but at least he's, you know, real or something.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: I'm paraphrasing, but like, it is again, connecting on that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: level of, are you for us? Or are you part
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: of the elites in both parties and in institutions of
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: business and in other places in this country that have
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: largely like failed to help people with the pressure they're,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: they're dealing with. And, and he is the one person
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: who are one of the few who has really understood
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: that I think at a visceral level and, and maximize
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: on it, obviously. And we've got to have our own
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: answer to it that is not destructive. But it's just,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: I think, just be real. Like I talk all the time, especially,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: I think there's this whole conversation about young men. I
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: talk obsessively about a more healthy, patriotic masculinity that isn't selfish,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: but provides a place for all people, but especially young
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: people and young men to feel like they can be
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: part of something bigger than themselves or I talk to
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: a lot of college age and high school age young
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: people in my district, and they're all feeling like they
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: just don't have a place. And we need to, I'm
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: obsessed with the national service and going to be working
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: on national service legislation because I think that's one of
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: the ways we can help get at this.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just a broader sense of community and being part
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: of something bigger.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think people are desperate for it. And you
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: think about that generation, they just essentially haven't seen it
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: in our politics or in our country in very many ways.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: And I think the Democratic Party can and must be
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: the place that offers that.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: There's an ongoing debate as well about tactical decisions by
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: the Harris campaign. We had a debate on this show
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: about whether, you know, it was a mistake for Kamala
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: Harris to focus at the end of the campaign on
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: Trump's authoritarian instincts and calling him a fascist versus talking
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: about the economy. Now that we have the election results,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: I feel even more confident that talking about the fascism
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: piece was a mistake. but much less confident that changing
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: that message would have made unlike any difference. You know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: the related debate is like whether it was a mistake to,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: you know, campaign with Liz Cheney versus, I don't know,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: doing some other sort of economic focused event. Do you
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: think any of those tactical decisions mattered with only 100
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: days to go? I mean, how do you make sense
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: of the broader headwinds that Kamala Harris was facing the,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: you know, the hangover frustration at Joe Biden versus what,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: you know, she could have actually controlled?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: I think with the time she they had and she
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: had and the constraints, to your point, structurally, they did.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: I think they did a very good job. I mean,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: just to give you a sense, like in our district,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: President Biden in June before his debate performance was down
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: 8 percent in a district. He had won by 8 percent.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: So like a massive underwater point. And then Kamala, the
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: vice president, Harris. won it by about 2%. So you
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: think in a few months, her entering the race moved
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: our party like 10 points, which is remarkable in a
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: few months in a battleground district. I think we can all,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, my campaign, lots of things we tactically could
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: improve on, but I think they did a very good job.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: And we got to zoom out and have the more
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: macro conversation we're having up to this point, in my view,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: in terms of substance and style on connecting with the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: economic pain people are feeling and giving them both short
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: and long-term hope, again, that somebody gets it and is
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: on the case.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: Just on this cultural piece, I mean, we're about the
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: same age, you know, like early 40s, some might say
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: mid for me. You served in the military. All subjective.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: You served in the military. I certainly did not. But like,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I grew up kind of bro-y, like
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: I played football and lacrosse and read Barstool Sports and
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: loved the Patriots and the Red Sox, you know what
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: I mean? And it feels like guys who look like us,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: like sort of white men, are fleeing the Democratic Party.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: They think we're annoying. They think we care about cancel culture.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe they hated the COVID lockdown rules.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, when you're talking to, you know, younger men,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: what do you hear from them about why they think
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: Democrats are now lame? Because we should be honest, they
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: think we're lame. They think it's lame to be a Democrat.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: They think Trump is cool and kind of rock and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: roll and counterculture. And we just like lost that mantle.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's, I have a lot of, I'm
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: part of a big Irish Catholic family. So I talk
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: with a lot of my younger cousins. I'm the oldest
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: of like 20 something. We've all lost count cousins. So
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: I talk with them a lot as a little sort
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: of focus group that they don't know they're participating in.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I, It is cultural, but it's more the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: things they've seen in the world they've watched of our
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: two longest wars, a financial meltdown, Trump dominating, and the
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: whole tenor and tone of our politics ushered in by Trump,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: but now spread far and wide. And I just think
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: they're deeply, understandably turned off, distrustful. You look at voter
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: registration of young people, they're largely registering unaffiliated more than
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: either party And anyone who presents as counter to that
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: and an agent of change and disruption is cool. I mean,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: I think I get that. And I've had a very, like,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: to your point, like more traditional, you know, whatever you
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: want to, whatever you want to call it, like went
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: to West Point, served in the army, did a small
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: business and now doing government stuff. And I think that
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: probably they see as lame too, I would but I
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: can at least come in and say, look, like I
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: love this country and I put my life on the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: line for this country. And I still think we have,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: we're better than anyone else by far. And, and I,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: you know, like let's start there. And I think we've
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: been able to, by appealing to some higher order patriotism, actually,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: I still think we're a deeply patriotic country. Um, And
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: we're getting there, but we didn't quite have enough time
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: to make that far and widely known.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: I really worry about the masculinity piece too. I mean,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: the fact that like Andrew Tate is this dominating force,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: especially among teenagers, is really worrisome. He's one of the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: most like noxious, loathsome people on the internet, on the planet.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: But also, you know, even just saying like, we need
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: a more different conversation about masculinity. Like I imagine me today,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: going to me 20 and being like, Hey son, you
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: want to have a conversation about masculinity? I'd be like,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: get the fuck away from you, dork. Like, what are
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: you talking about? You know? Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: I think, yeah. I mean, our most popular ad, which we,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: we put millions of dollars in this campaign in the
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: New York city media market was basically like me playing,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: building Legos with my five-year-old reading with my two-year-old, like
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: wrestling them on the floor, talking about how I was
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: a different kind of Democrat, not necessarily on a policy level,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: but on that values and cultural level. And I've done
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: a few campaigns and a lot of ads. I've never
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: seen or felt this kind of reaction to this ad
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: where it was actually like pretty warm and pretty positive,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: but felt, I just think people were like, thank you
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: for like, just not having negative nasty ads all the time.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: And I think people are actually searching for a healthier
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: way more, again, I think positive and, and I would
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: argue patriotic alternative on masculinity, we have to offer it.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: And I think we can, right. Cause bumps is so
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: selfish and so, uh, ultimately isolating. I actually think for
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: a lot of people.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. And he's just such a whiner. Like,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: that's what I don't get why these young guys like him.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: Like anyone, anyone who whined like that on the pickup
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: basketball court, like that he really won the whole time.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: Like you would hate that guy, but, somehow it makes
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: it work on the foreign policy front. I mean, only
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: 4% of voters in exit polls said foreign policy was
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: their top voting concern, but Trump won those voters with 55%.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: There's some like specific issues that clearly impacted the race,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: like Gaza and Ukraine, but bigger picture. The thing that's
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: worrying to me is this sentiment. Now the Democrats are
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: the pro war party and that Trump is anti-war. And
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: my friend, Peter Hamby, who writes for Puck and does
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: a show on Snapchat, went to a bunch of college
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: campuses and found kids that were genuinely worried about getting drafted,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: which obviously is not ever going to happen. But the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: fact that that was a concern that came up over
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: and over again, I think is notable. So, you know,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: you went to West Point, you served two tours in Iraq,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: you spent time in Afghanistan, you're on the Armed Services
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: Committee now.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Where do we go wrong?
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: And how do you think Democrats get back this anti-war mantle?
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: Well, I think I actually... I don't mean to be
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: so dark here, but I actually think those kids aren't wrong.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think people intuitively understand whether you're a
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: young person or someone who maybe even lived through and
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: remembers World War II, which thankfully we still have a
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: good number of those folks around. People get it and
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: are way smarter than folks give them credit for. They
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: understand how dangerous, volatile, divided, and increasingly authoritarian the world is.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: And In those moments, again, it's the temptation is to
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: sort of reach for a strongman figure. And I think
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: we have, both for wonky national security and foreign policy reasons,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: need to find our voice in a way that projects
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: more direction and strength. And I hate to, you may
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: never have me on the show again by quoting Ronald
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: Reagan in terms of, you know, one of his more
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: famous or infamous piece through strength, but I do think
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: That is kind of where the world is as I
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: think about it. And strength needs to be defined differently
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: and more broadly and not just militarily, but economically, technologically, intellectually,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: and academically. And there's a real opportunity for us, I think,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: to rally the American people behind, again, this view of
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: the world is dangerous. We're seeing China, Iran, Russia, North
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: Korea now all kind of coming together in ways that
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: are concerning. we need to lean in in order to
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: prevent war. And I think that's how we need to
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: be talking about it more, which we don't. In order
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: to prevent war, really reinvest and come together as a country.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: It might be the last sort of hope, I think,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: to bring us back together in a way that averts
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: a World War III scenario.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of truth
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: to that. And I do think people really vote on
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: base feelings, right? Strong, weak, et cetera.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: But I also heard so.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: Many focus groups and anecdotal pieces of evidence where young
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: people in particular of all races, genders, et cetera, were like,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: why are we sending all this money to Ukraine? That's
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: crazy and stupid. I want to spend that here. You know,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: and that's just a, it's a long explanation to explain why.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: And that kind of nativism I think was powerful for
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: Trump and very effective. Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think there is a tight case to
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: be made in terms of I mean, essentially, do you
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: want to find deterrence? I'm not saying I'm the expert
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: at this, but I think we have to be making
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: that case less about supporting Ukraine as much as I
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: support Ukraine, more about stopping Putin and stopping the growing
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: cooperation with these other parties. And it's a fine line
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: that I actually really wrestle with this idea of like,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: you don't want to create a boogeyman to the degree
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: that then creates the inevitable security dilemma and escalates into war.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, I think not being clear
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: about who the threats are and what the risks are
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: leaves a vacuum for people to misinterpret why we're doing
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: the things we're doing. And they're like, well, it just
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: feels like we're treading water and holding the status quo.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: And in fact, we're not. And I actually think the
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: Biden administration has got not everything, but a lot right
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: in this regard. And yet no one feels that way, obviously,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: to your points. And again, it comes back to a
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: us and them. And I just don't think we've clarified like,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: what is the answer? Our equivalent to America first has
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: to be, again, a more or less selfish and more
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: unifying view of reinvesting here at home to keep us
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: safe and strong abroad.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. As I think people saw,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that voters really did not like
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: and rejected was hearing about the United States sending billions
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: and billions and billions of dollars worth of weapons to
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: be used in Gaza, only to see both the horrific
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: civilian cost of that war, but also to see it
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: metastasized and spread into Lebanon in these closing months before
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: the election. I don't think those images did the Biden
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: administration and then Kamala Harris any good. Last question for you.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: So it looks like Democrats are likely to be in
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: the minority in the House, which will give you know,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump, total control of the U S government. We
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: know that means all committees are Republican. Dems will not
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: have a subpoena power, but what do you think the role,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: what can Democrats do from the opposition in the house?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: From your perspective, what do you want to accomplish in
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: the next two years?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Small question.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: Now, um, uh, I mean, look, I, I almost feel
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: foolish saying it given what happened between 2016 and 2020.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: But I do think there are a few areas where
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: doing my job as a representative, like maybe there's some
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: space to work with the administration to relieve some of
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: the particular economic pain and pressure we've talked about. But
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: I think that's very, very unlikely just given both past
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: performance and all the promises he's made in Project 2025.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: And I mean, I believe that is the plan 100%.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: And so we got to be.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: Manning the ramparts and holding the line. And I think
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: we're gonna have to get real creative and scrappy and
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: be willing to really shake things up in terms of
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: the tactics, in terms of communication. And like, if we're
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: using the current powers of the institutions, we're going to
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: get rolled. We need to be much smarter using new
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: communication styles, using, you know, I don't have the answers yet,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: but I think we got to put our heads together
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: and Think about, you know, I actually thought it was
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: pretty cool. I haven't even read it yet. But one
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: of my colleagues who unfortunately got gerrymandered out, Wiley Nickel,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: just wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post saying we
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: should have a shadow cabinet and start operating the way
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: they do in the UK. Like, I don't know if
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: that works, but like, we need to be doing things differently.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: Understanding Trump is on the march towards an authoritarian, if
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: not fascist, way of governing. And that requires us to
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: really step up our game.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point. Well, Congressman Ryan, thank you
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: so much for doing the show. Everyone should check out
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: your Twitter thread because there's even more really interesting ideas
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: and arguments in there for what Dems got right and
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: what we got wrong. And I appreciate you being willing
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: to talk to us today and just generally speak candidly
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: about it because I know it's not easy to criticize
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: your friends sometimes, but it's important. So thanks.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, thanks for having me. It is Veterans Day,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: so I'd be remiss not not thanking all those that
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: have served my fellow veterans of all generations.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: That's our show for today. One last item. Did you notice, Lovett,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: you want to talk about this?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. The idea has been floated that Joe Biden
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: has the opportunity to do something awesome, and that is
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: to resign and make Kamala Harris the nation's first female president.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: And this is an idea that I already have endorsed
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: on Love It or Leave It.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: You have?
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as a joke.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: This came from Jamal Simmons, who is Kamala Harris's former
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: communications director, for those of our listeners who don't know.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: And I think it's beautiful. And I think you should
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: Really? No.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Look, I think that... I think it's treating the presidency
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: like it's a fucking participation trophy.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: No, obviously. Obviously. Obviously. I just think, look.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I would be so offended if I was Kamala Harris.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, I don't think... I obviously don't think that Joe
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: Biden should resign in order to make Kamala Harris a
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: good job president. Way to go, sis, president. But I
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: will say that if... Given how hard he was struggling
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: on the sand.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: Uh, no, I just imagine after four years of us
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: pointing out that Donald Trump wouldn't accept the results of
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: an election. Joe Biden appointed the person who just lost
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: to the presidency. What message would that send? I know
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: it's temporary. I know it's a different scenario, but can
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: you imagine what the Republicans would say?
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: But Tommy, isn't it true that there are 15 million
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: missing votes out there?
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: 15 million missing votes.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Just everyone, just so we should just knock it down.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: There's some stuff going around, even some people who are
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: like reporters, former reporters, I've seen this a couple places,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: that like, oh my gosh, you got like 15 million
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: less votes and blah, blah, blah. And I've heard it
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: from people out in the world. Just so you guys
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: all know, the turnout numbers, they have not finished counting
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: California yet. And when you do the projections, New York Times,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: whoever it may be, they think that Trump's going to
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: win by 1.5%. And that Kamala Harris probably ends up
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: with 5 million fewer votes than Joe Biden. And Donald
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Trump ends up with 4 million more votes than he
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: got in 2020. And by the way, turnout almost the same,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: slightly less in 2024. Probably is going to end up
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: at like 2, 3 million. uh votes uh less.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: Yes the yeah they can somebody sent me the conspiracy
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: theory oh no oh god texted me and said what
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: is there just one or there are a couple and
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: i and i said who sent you this and they
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: said a very famous person and i said tell that
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: person to go for a walk outside and i it
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: actually like the For the same reason, no, the election
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: wasn't stolen in 2020. No, there's not some conspiracy to
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: steal 15 million votes this time. Actually, another reason that
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump may have some trouble becoming the authoritarian he
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: wants to become. America is big and complicated with various
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: levels of government that may command and control of this big,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: messy country, incredibly difficult, if not completely impossible. And like,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: that's why our elections are more secure. That's why the
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theories are fucking stupid. And that is my hope
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: But if you want to find... Those 15 million missing votes,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: I bet they're in the same place as that 13th key.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: They would have to reprint a lot. If Kamala Harris
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: did become president over the next month, they would have
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: to reprint a lot of hats. It would be expensive.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: That piece of this is very funny.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: Just for a day. Just for a day.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Now, you know what?
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: Now I flipped. Now I'm for it. That's our show
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: for today. I'll be back on Wednesday with a new
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: episode featuring guest host Ezra Klein.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: Just the two of us and Nancy Pelosi.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about all the latest and where
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Democrats go from here. So talk to you then. If
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at cricket.com
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: slash friends. And if you're already doom scrolling, don't forget
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: a review to help boost this episode or spice up
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: the group chat by sharing it with friends, family, or
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: randos you want in on this conversation. Pod Save America
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are David Toledo
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Reid
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: Cherlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: DeGroat is our head of production. Andy Taft is our
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Kiril Pelleviv, and David Toles.