Latest / CattleUSA Daily / 275: EPA Reversal: What It Means for Diesel, DEF, and Agriculture with Emma Coffman

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275: EPA Reversal: What It Means for Diesel, DEF, and Agriculture with Emma Coffman · CattleUSA Daily

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Today with Emma Kaufman, we are talking about a new ruling that
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just came through from the EPA and what that means for us as
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agricultural producers. How does this tie to AG?
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What does it mean for us? Is this a win?
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Is this a loss? What what do we need to focus
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on? What do we need to be concerned
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about? All of those things Emma breaks
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down for us today. Before we hop into today's
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episode with Emma Kaufman, if you are watching on YouTube,
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make sure you take a second to hit that subscribe button and
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like this episode. If you for on any of our other
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podcast platforms, make sure you're following the show and go
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take a second to write and review it as well.
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Doing all of these things continues to just help us grow
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and reach a wider audience and make a bigger impact across all
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of agriculture. Without further ado, let's go
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ahead and hear from Emma. Welcome to the Cattle USA Daily
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podcast, your go to source for the latest livestock markets,
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industry insights and the updates shaping agriculture
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today. I'm your host Lauren Moylan, a
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passionate advocate for agriculture, here to keep you
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informed and connected. Now let's dive into today's
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episode. Emma, welcome back to the
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podcast Once again today, we are here to talk about something
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that I feel like we've kind of stopped talking about a ton in
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production agriculture because I feel like we were beating the
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drum there for a really long time and then everyone started
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to chill. And then now we're back in the
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news again. And that is with emissions,
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greenhouse gas, the EPA, all of these things.
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So break it all down. What in the heck happened?
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Why are we talking about this again?
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And why was this an issue first place?
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Yeah. So it's a lot for those who
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probably know if you own a diesel engine, especially a
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pickup truck, you have this lovely little requirement called
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DEF. And essentially what this does
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is recycle the emissions back through the engine.
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And I know for those who are way more mechanically inclined, I
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know that is not verbatim exactly what's going on, but
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stick with me here. Essentially, for those who are
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non mechanically inclined, what it does is it recycles the
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exhaust emissions back through through the engine and this
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death is basically turning that black smoke into clear.
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And I'm sure some environmentalist is going to
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have to correct me and tell me that I am wrong in this
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statement, but my opinion is that it didn't really make a
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difference anyway. It's the same Dang thing.
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It's just a different color. But essentially what happened
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was we had this requirement and this really like this accusation
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that vehicles were contributing to greenhouse gas emissions.
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And if we remember, oh, back the Obama administration in 2009,
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this is when the emissions got added from motor vehicles, got
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added to the Clean Air Act. So for those who don't
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understand, the EPA Environmental Protection Agency
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back in 1963 had the first like night, the Clean Air Act.
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And then that came after the Supreme Court ruling from
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Massachusetts versus EPA. And so the greenhouse gases were
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officially classified as air pollutants.
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That's what that originated, that first nugget, that first
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step to the staircase, if you will.
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Then the decision that or that decision allowed the EPA and
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gave them authority to regulate any kind of carbon dioxide
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emissions, including from vehicles, especially diesel
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engines. So what happened in December of
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15th of 2009 under the Obama administration, like I said, is
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that the EPA originally issued, this is a mouthful, the
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greenhouse gas endangerment and cost contribute finding under
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Section 2O2A. And that was falling underneath
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the Clean Air Act. What essentially was is saying,
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yes, motor vehicles contribute climate change and therefore it
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is a danger to public health and the welfare and is contributing
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to air pollution and we must regulate this.
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And that is when we started getting deaf requirement systems
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and honestly added cost to trucking and it made vehicles
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more expensive. And so anyone who's had their
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truck deleted, that's what that essentially means.
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They're deleting that requirement of that deaf system.
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Now, what was really, really fun is that the EPA was actually
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paying any kind of vehicle, whether mainly dealerships, but
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but they were paying these dealerships to tattletale on
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anybody who was bringing a truck in that was deleted.
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So if I my truck's not deleted, for those who are wondering, but
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if it was and I brought my vehicle in and I said hi, I
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would like to trade in my perfectly fine, you know, 50 for
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something bigger or something else, whatever.
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And they were like, OK, yes, let's let's find all the little
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things that we can deduct the value on it and steal your money
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from you. And then they see, oh, wow, this
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truck's deleted. If they report it to the EPA,
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they got a financial incentive. It was almost like a bounty.
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And it was just kind of ridiculous.
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But it really cost out of all the segments of the industry
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that this could have impacted the most, I would definitely say
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that the agriculture industry was absolutely hit the hardest
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because who uses diesel more than any other industry?
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Well, obviously the ag industry especially, we're talking about
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tractors and we're talking about even just trucking from hay from
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one place to another. And I think my light just died,
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so I apologize. But that is originally where the
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the kind of like the stick in the side really began and came
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from. So overall, the EPA regulations
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for farming operations made it more expensive and and they
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didn't really provide a reliable solution for rural industries to
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solve their now new transport challenges.
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So what happened last year in 2025?
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In July, the EPA proposed a reconsideration of the 2009
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endangerment finding and specifically talking about
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greenhouse gas emission standards tied to any kind of
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public comment period. So essentially it allowed and
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opened the door for people to come in and say hi, yes, no,
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this is silly, you silly gooses. We should not be doing this.
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And so they considered it February of this year and the
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EPA finalized the rule. And what they said is saying,
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oops, my bad, takes the backsies.
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And now underneath the Clean Air Act, the the EPA no longer has
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the authority under the section of K of the Clean Air Act to
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regulate greenhouse gas emissions for vehicles and
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engines. A specifically talking about new
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vehicles and new engines. So moving forward, from 2026,
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moving forward, diesel trucks will not have a requirement for
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death. I think that they even said if
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you wanted to remove that off of your system, you could you'd
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have to double check real amount.
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Not 100% sure, but I know for manufacturing, this means that
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we do not have to have any more death systems.
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And I just think it's really funny that like the EPA goes,
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oops, my bad. And I will say it's the same
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thing with like pesticides, herbicides, vaccines.
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We learn stuff as things and time progresses, like we have
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new technology and new research and longer case studies that we
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can take into consideration. So I'm just really mad that my
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truck has has has a death system and if I had bought a truck
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back, I see. I don't even know the last
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model. I guess I've been 2009.
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So really like anything before 2009, if I bought an older truck
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that probably was more reliable and harder to damage, it didn't
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have a deaf system. And then now if I were to trade
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my truck in for a new one, I wouldn't have a deaf system.
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But you had to pay an exorbitant amount of money to get your
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truck deleted if you were to violate federal law.
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So anyway, that's what's going on in a nutshell.
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It's a huge win for agriculture, like massive, massive win.
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So I don't know. I know that this is going to be
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underneath like certain time period, a review time period.
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So I don't know what that means for current vehicles.
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And I am not, I am not saying you should go out tomorrow and
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go get your truck deleted. I'm not saying that I'm not the
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law. I'm just saying that I think
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it's really funny that they said oops, my bad, it cost you a lot
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of money, but oops might be. I think that that one line sums
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up our federal government. Just going to leave that there,
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just just going to leave that there.
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But there's a lot of ways that you could describe regulation
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and oops, might be, might be, might be one of them.
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So yes, but no, like you said, Emma, this is a massive win for
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agriculture. This is a massive win for our
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trucking industry, which is a massive, massive part of
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production agriculture and a part of the entire food system.
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That whether you're in the crop side or whether you're in the
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beef production side, this is a massive win just as far as cost
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goes and puts all of these other things that go into agriculture.
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This is a really big win. And I hope that as we continue
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to go about this re review process and looking at these
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things and looking at emissions and greenhouse gases and all of
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these things, we've already started to see reports come out
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that like, hey, agriculture is not the problem guys.
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But I really hope that as we continue to get more media
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coverage and knowledge come out about this, that we can really
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reshape the story of emissions within agriculture as a whole as
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as well and really show that, hey guys, we're, we're really
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not the problem here. If anything, we're very, very
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carbon neutral. We are the first stewards of the
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land. The fact of having a cow on
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grass is way better for the environment than we could do
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with anything else. So it's encouraging.
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This is a major win for agriculture.
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Then I think it's just encouraging as we continue to
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look forward on what this can continue to do as a trickle down
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effect as we go into other regulation things.
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Absolutely. And to your point, this is also
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targeting this whole like I this isn't a sound aggressive and you
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know what it should be, but did we not take like basic science
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class in first grade like this whole thing called like the
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carbon cycle? And guess who actually helps
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sequester carbon back into the soil?
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Not your little Ford Fiesta or not your Tesla, not the con
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concrete that you walk on the sidewalk and you complain that
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there's someone's empty Starbucks cup thrown on the with
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their paper straw made wrapped in plastic.
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No, it is cattle. I mean, it just it boggles my
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mind. And I, you know, we talked to
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consumers all the time. It's hard not to get frustrated.
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And I get that. Like it's really hard to not get
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frustrated with somebody who may not understand the same
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fundamentals of the beef industry that you do.
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But I will say like, try to exercise that patience and have
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that conversation with that person because those are the
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people that we need on our side. Those that's our demand.
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That is our market. Those are our people who are
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eating our product. So we shouldn't have the door
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shut down on them just because like, oh, you don't understand?
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Well, they don't understand. But like, why?
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Why would you not take the time to help them understand?
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That helps generate the dollar value behind your product that
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you're trying to sell. It's like if I was saying, oh,
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these dumb brides and they're planning their weddings and they
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don't understand this. They don't understand that.
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And I'm like a wedding dress. I don't know, like boutique like
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why would why like that forms of level of distrust.
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So why wouldn't they go to somebody else?
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Why wouldn't they look for alternative resources?
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You can also obviously tell I'm getting a lot of my friends
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married off right now because that's the first analogy that
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came to my mind. But hopefully that made sense.
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But yeah, we're talking about the carbon cycle and we're
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talking about, you know, this accusation of cattles like, like
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contribute to climate change. And even even though the
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greenhouse gas emissions deal, that's like one of the first
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arguments I hear about people like gals are contributing farts
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to the climate is ruining the planet.
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Guess what your cars are 28% of greenhouse gas emissions.
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Just the United States. Guess what?
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Cattle is less than two 2%. All of agriculture is 10%.
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So of like agriculture outside of cattle is 8, cattle are two.
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That's math. Last time I checked that meant
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10, and that's still less than 50% of 28.
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I'm no mathematician, trust me. You know 5th grade teacher could
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test to that. But like I'm telling you, it's
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just I don't, I don't get it. I hope people take this as a
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sign of like, hey, mistakes happen.
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Like you said, our government is like, it's like almost being as
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wrong as other people. Like you can still be super,
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super wrong and still keep your job.
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It must be really nice. I haven't been in that kind of
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position. And I don't think most people in
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production agriculture are also in that position to be
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consistently wrong and still get a paycheck.
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So for those who are in our but that's also a I'm going to get
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another platform here. Let me step right on up that
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it's also a big example of why we need people who are in
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agriculture, who understand agriculture out advocating for
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agriculture, whether it's at your grocery store, whether it's
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at your local school, whether it's your FFA chapter.
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But if you can serve as a politician, if you can serve on
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a board, you can serve on a committee.
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I'm in Lubbock, TX, and yesterday we had people show up
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to try to fight to keep these stupid data centers that are
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sucking out water of the Oogawala Aquifer.
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And guess what? That's not just here.
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That goes all the way up. I forget how many states it
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touches, but it touches more than just but it takes time for
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you to show up because of what if nobody showed up to that
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meeting at City Council, Nobody solar farm.
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These these, these companies are actively coming and trying to
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rezone an entire location just so they can get this
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infrastructure of a data center of a solar farm or whatever have
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you. And the only way to stop them is
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to show up is to show up and speak out.
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And I know that's not everybody's Forte.
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You obviously at this point you're probably listening to
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this podcast saying, wow, that Longo's very enthusiastic and
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you know what I am? Because I'm tired of the finger
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being pointed at agriculture. I'm tired of people blaming us.
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I'm tired of concrete jungles and people who have back-to-back
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cars lined all the way up the darn city sidewalk and you can't
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park your freaking truck in downtown freaking Fort Worth.
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Yes, I'm talking about you. It's frustrating that when we're
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out there seeing grass and growth and crops and literally
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the soil thriving, but meanwhile you're sitting in your concrete
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jungle with your glass and, you know, solar power, whatever have
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you, and you're pointing the finger at us.
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I ain't buying that. I ain't buying that.
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So, but this is a huge win for EPA.
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This whole EPA thing, It's a win.
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Let's keep on that trajectory. And cow farts don't kill.
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Are you, Are you ready to step step down from that soapbox?
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Yes, I am. Subtle, I get.
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So passionate. You should have just cut me off.
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You should be like Emma, stop, stop, stop, stop.
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But you know what? Hopefully somebody comments and
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says, yes, retweet, retweet's still a thing.
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But back when I was my day, Twitter was still a thing.
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So anyway. You know what, it's nice when
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you get on your soapbox. So I just just sit back and
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enjoy the show and I I enjoy it every time.
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So everything that you said though is so accurate that this
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is a win for agriculture. And they're so there's so many
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things that are going to be a trickle down effect from this,
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whether that be people, like you said, just needing to get out
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and advocate and share the story of agriculture for consumers and
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our consumer population, or whether it just be the trickle
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down effect that this is going to have on our input costs as AG
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producers and in production agriculture.
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And just really re sharing that story and reshaping what that
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looks like. It's encouraging that we do have
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a situation. I found it funny what you said,
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that they can be consistently wrong and still get a paycheck.
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Yes, that is hilarious and very accurate.
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But it is also encouraging that they're able to sit here and
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take it back. They're not just going to dig
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their heels. And even more knowing they're
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wrong, they have taken it back. They have realized that maybe
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that system wasn't the best system.
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It wasn't actually doing anything.
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And I think when we look at diesel engines, everyone's going
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to look out their front porch and see at least one if not
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more, especially when we're looking at just all of the other
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equipment that we have on our operations, whether it be our
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pickups that we use to feed or anything else that has been
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affected by that EPA ruling back in 2009.
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So it is encouraging, it's a win for agriculture.
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It's exciting. And I hope that we continue to
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see some trickle down effects come from this.
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Me too. I mean that if anything that
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shows you do stay involved. And then I, I talked about this
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on a video recently, like politics are not always fun to
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keep up with. I know it's a lot.
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It can be like drinking out of a fire hydrant.
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But I'm telling you, it is very, very, very important to know who
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is making these decisions on your behalf when you are not in
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the room that they are taking a vote in.
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It's very important. So just try to keep updated.
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Like I, like you said, and I said, this is a huge win.
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We don't always get wins, but we're taking this one and we're
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just going to go and just like carry on and keep hopefully keep
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that momentum moving. Yes, absolutely.
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Well, Emma, as always, thank you for your time coming on today
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and sharing about just your knowledge and your insights and
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all the research that you have done around this topic.
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I really appreciate it and I appreciate you sharing it with
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our audience here on the podcast.
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To all of our listeners out there, thank you for listening
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to another episode of the Cattle USA Daily Podcast.
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We will see you all on another episode next time.
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Have a good one y'all.