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Tracer Rounds with Veteran Shelly Rood · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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MBR giving veterans a voice. And welcome back to the Tracer
1:15
Rounds Podcast. And I'm Terry, your host.
1:16
And with me tonight is a veteran Shelly Rude and she is with
1:20
others over self. And there's other things that
1:23
you do too. So we're going to get into them
1:25
all. But welcome, Shelly, Appreciate
1:27
you coming on tonight. Terry, you're a legend.
1:29
Thank you so much for allowing me to share the microphone with
1:32
you. A.
1:33
Legend. No, no, no.
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I think that's you. So can you tell us a little bit
1:38
about your military service and, and tell us, you know, maybe
1:42
some highlights things that are really important to you about
1:45
your military service or some good assignments that you had
1:49
and then so that kind of maybe will transition into what you're
1:51
doing now. Things that were important to me
1:54
about my military service, Everything and nothing at the
1:58
same time. Oh, it's so much fun to tell the
2:01
stories and to look back on the experiences that we've had for
2:05
good and bad, right? They make up who we are as a
2:07
human. I did serve in the Army Reserves
2:11
over a period of 16 years and I do like to feel as though I am
2:16
the least of these. I am not a combat veteran.
2:18
I have served overseas. I did serve in military
2:22
intelligence. I attained the rank of Captain
2:26
and did everything fun that comes with being a secret
2:28
squirrel. Towards the the last years of my
2:32
career there, I came to the understanding that what the
2:36
military didn't need was one more intelligence officer and
2:40
what it really needed was another chaplain.
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We still have a nationwide shortage of chaplain.
2:46
We have for a decade now. And I really thought that that
2:51
was my path and my calling and I pursued it.
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And Terry, wouldn't you know that I, you know, kind of had a
2:59
very interesting medical incident and then I was deemed
3:02
not qualified to go back into the military.
3:06
And so I found myself, after having walked this calling on
3:09
the outside, not allowed to come back in.
3:13
Oh my goodness. It really, that was a defining
3:16
moment for me, obviously to to really figure out.
3:19
I thought I was called to do this and and God took me in a
3:23
different path. Very scary path.
3:26
Right. Yeah, that is, I mean, you're
3:29
right, there isn't. Well, first of all, I, my last
3:33
assignment in the Army Reserve was at South Com in Miami.
3:38
And I I'm human resources by trade.
3:41
And when I got there, they're like, the Sergeant major wants
3:44
to see you. The very first time I got there,
3:47
Sergeant Major wants to see you. And nobody ever wants to hear
3:49
those. Words.
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I know. I was like, what did I do?
3:52
I've only been here 10 minutes. What could I have done already?
3:55
I was really worried about it. And he, I get into the office
3:58
and he goes, I got an assignment for you.
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And I was like, yes, Sir, Major. And he goes, yeah, so you're
4:03
going to work in the chaplain's office.
4:05
And I was like, we have one of those like, like there actually
4:09
is a working chaplain in the in the building.
4:11
He's like, yeah, and you're going to work for him because he
4:13
needs help. And because we never see or we,
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you know, depending on the unit you're in, the chaplain quite
4:18
literally is one of the busiest people that you have and they're
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always right next to the commander.
4:24
It's such an important position and responsibility and it really
4:28
is sad that we have such a shortage of it.
4:31
And so whenever I get a chance to meet somebody that worked
4:33
alongside the chaplains, please be good to your chaplains.
4:36
Yes, definitely. Yeah.
4:37
They have big, big shoes to fill in the in the command and then,
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you know, the daily office settings.
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I mean, there's always, the chaplain was always busy.
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He always had someone coming in wanting to talk to him or some
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proceedings he had to preside over, you know, ceremony, what
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have you. So yeah, he was pretty tasked
4:59
out. So all the reservists kind of
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helped give him a little support so he could do his job.
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So you're right, you know, there is not enough chaplains and, and
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not enough people know they're still chaplains out there
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because there isn't enough, I think.
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I agree. I agree.
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And so the chaplains whole purpose is to represent the
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spirit of the human. It's as simple as that.
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We're not talking about religion.
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We're not talking about your faith beliefs, just the spirit
5:24
of the human. And then if you choose to as a
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chaplain, then you can go through all of the different
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belief systems. You can choose to represent one
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of the, I think it's 212 now that are deemed as official
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religions within the Department of War.
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But just to care for the spirit. And that that is the space that
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I like to hold in the work that I do, but not from a standpoint
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of a church. And so a little bit about that
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transition when I got the final, final, final order that I was
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disqualified from reenlistment. I remember sitting at a
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stoplight and I never, I really don't cry, Terry.
6:08
I really don't. But there was this weird salty
6:10
discharge coming out of my eyes and and I I looked up past the
6:16
light into the sky, and I said, why?
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I thought that I was supposed to be a military chaplain.
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I, I really thought that I was following my calling.
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And I heard a voice inside of my head, very calm, say, Shelly, do
6:34
you need to be a soldier to serve the soldiers?
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The perfect question in the perfect moment.
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And I have never looked back from there.
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And so we continue on day after day to do the glorious work that
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we do. And we're bringing joy and peace
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to everyone that we're interacting with.
6:57
And we do it through the lens of leadership development.
6:59
You know, we don't have to carry one particular relief belief
7:03
system over the other in the work that we do because those
7:07
who are looking for those answers, you know, they're
7:10
there. And we, we, it's my favorite
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when we get to have those conversations.
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But on the whole, as I'm sure you've found military people and
7:17
veterans, we don't really like to talk about spirituality.
7:22
Yeah, I mean, I think, well, we don't try to talk politics or
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religion because somebody usually ends up upset.
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So we don't really want to upset, you know, the, the
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cohesiveness. That's how you get punched at
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the dinner table, right? So, yeah, I mean, I think people
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do just, you know, generally say, you know, I'm I believe in
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God or I believe in this or that, but but that's usually the
7:45
extent of the conversation, unless it's somebody that you
7:49
actively worship with, then, you know, maybe the conversation's a
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little deeper. So you transitioned then from
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being wanting to be an an Army chaplain to what?
8:03
That's right. You did.
8:04
Exactly. So I just bunkered down into the
8:07
leadership development company that we had already created, and
8:10
that's the work that we've been living in day in and day out.
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We went ahead and ran with the mindset of others over self and
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we truly believe that we are created to serve others and put
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the needs of others over ourselves.
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And it's a very easy concept to say and I think it's the hardest
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thing that you can possibly do in life to serve others over
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self. Yeah, it, it is hard to, I mean,
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those who have a heart for service, maybe it's not quite so
8:41
difficult because you know, we're always wanting to find a
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way to serve others or to help others or support others.
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Maybe if we can't serve ourselves, but maybe we're just
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offer some support in some way, you know, so those that are
8:55
minded or are like minded that way.
8:57
I mean, I think that's an easy, an easy go.
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But I mean, still, still at at times it is hard to want to, you
9:06
know, put somebody before your own needs.
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But you do that as a parent all day long.
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I mean, if you're a parent then you're going to put your kids
9:13
needs over yours. If you're a good parent, Terry.
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Well, yeah, I can't always say that I'm a good parent.
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I try, but I can't always say I always do it.
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There's this me culture, this you like.
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If I come from a world of of marketing and I come from being
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a broadcast marketing executive as well.
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And when you look at the scope of the messaging that we're
9:39
being fed, there is so much about you, you, you, you, you,
9:43
you, you. And so if you'd, I mean, just do
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a search for the top marketing messages that are out there,
9:48
it's all about you. It's this me culture, me first,
9:52
my needs, my individuality. And it's the opposite of the
9:58
others of yourself mindset. I mean, just the other day, I'm
10:00
going to actually write an article on this, but I came
10:03
across an ad for TJ Maxx, and their new slogan is like, never
10:07
uniform, always you. And my soul is like arguing with
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their new slogan because I get what they're trying to do.
10:16
Yeah. But for those of us that have
10:18
like worn the uniform, I mean, you can't just say that, right?
10:23
So just things like that, right? When we kind of back up and look
10:27
at the culture overall, I, I do believe that in the military and
10:31
1st responder world, my husband's a first responder.
10:33
It's very easy to, to sink into that.
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Oh yeah, I get it. Totally.
10:37
Others of her mindset, right? Fist bump, love it.
10:40
But outside of our culture, that's not what we see.
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And I want more of it, right? And so we do the things we want
10:47
more of, and that's what it's all about.
10:49
Wow so how long have you been doing this work now and and had
10:54
this others over self a mission? Our company was founded in 2017,
10:59
so we're going to be celebrating 10 years next year.
11:02
Awesome. Yeah.
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And we've been growing every year ever since.
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And one niche that we have found ourselves in is the woman
11:11
veteran landscape as it relates specifically to peer support.
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And that was a very interesting path that we've taken.
11:20
And so if you'd like to talk about that, we can definitely
11:22
get on. That road, yeah, let's do, I was
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going to mention it and you brought it up.
11:27
So now we get that opportunity. So I I noticed there's a strong
11:32
women's veteran. Well, women veterans strong.
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I got to say it in the right order.
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And it's you sign up for it and then there's a whole myriad of
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introductory messaging that comes along with it.
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And then an introduction to a small group to talk about women
11:50
veterans. Maybe not problems, but maybe
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challenges. Maybe that's a better word.
11:57
Challenges and and representation or maybe in
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getting benefits that maybe aren't as available to women
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veterans are not as thought of as it would relate to a male
12:08
veteran. I don't know.
12:09
Tell us a little bit more about what you're doing and how you
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got started with that as well. It's all about living life
12:15
together. What we've seen with a lot of
12:18
the veteran care spaces, it's crisis responding which has its
12:22
place. It's absolutely necessary.
12:25
Beyond crisis response, we just need friendship.
12:29
We need really good, healthy people to our left and to our
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right that we can walk alongside with in life.
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You know, if you think of your grandmother or a beloved aunt
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from when you were younger, like some type of healthy female
12:44
figure that was just there for you at a deep level.
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Do we have that in our lives? That's the question that my team
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and I started to seek the answer to because to have that is very
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special. And what we found is, yes,
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there's a lot of 911 hotlines and things you can call when
13:06
you're in crisis. Sometimes we don't recognize
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we're in crisis. Sometimes it's way too late by
13:13
the time we recognize that we're there.
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So there has to be that preventative measure there.
13:18
Like what what is before the crisis, You know, what's before
13:21
crisis? Life, the wilderness is what's
13:25
before crisis. And we just need good, healthy
13:28
people to help walk us through the wilderness and be in it
13:32
together with us. You know, when you think about
13:34
your great aunt or your grandmother, are you going to
13:36
call her at 2:00 in the morning to pull your car out of a ditch?
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No. Does that mean she doesn't love
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you? No.
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It's a different type of love and care.
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And so that's what we provide to our women through our Women
13:52
Veteran Services. And you mentioned Woman Veteran
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Strong. That is the name in the title
13:59
that we had been running with for many years.
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And you know, Terry, I'm excited to talk to you tonight because
14:03
there's a transition that we're in this year.
14:08
So what we've noticed is that there's a lot of angry women
14:12
veterans. Like there's a lot of fists up
14:15
in the air. And my team, like we live and
14:19
breathe this as you do. And we were getting exhausted
14:22
going into event after event and networking meetings.
14:25
And we would just feel bombarded by the amount of angry women
14:30
that we were coming up against. And it felt like the whole
14:33
landscape was just fighting itself.
14:36
And so as a team, we decided that we were going to do
14:39
something different. And that's where we came up with
14:41
the idea of let's turn that fist into a flower.
14:45
And so we've walked down this path of what are women veterans?
14:50
And we landed on the understanding that they're
14:53
wildflowers. They are incredibly resilient.
14:57
They grow in the worst territory that you could ever imagine.
15:02
I mean, who out there has been at Ranger School?
15:04
And they turned their head and they saw that little bluebell
15:06
pop up in the middle of nowhere. Like, there is so much power in
15:10
being a wildflower. And it's a thing of beauty.
15:14
It's a thing of resilience. And there's different kinds of
15:17
wildflowers. And So what our team has done is
15:21
we've created the Wildflower personality assessment for
15:25
women, veterans specifically. And you can pop on there, you
15:28
can take the assessment, it takes about 10 minutes and you
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can learn which of the 8 wildflowers you are.
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And that assessment leans into the type of communicator you are
15:39
and the type of processor you are.
15:41
See. Because what was happening,
15:42
Terry, is we noticed with a lot of our angry women and our non
15:46
angry women, we were battling with who we are and not having
15:51
that next level of self-awareness.
15:54
So by taking the assessment, the first thing that we gain is that
15:58
self-awareness. And by doing that, get ready for
16:01
this. When you're more self aware, you
16:04
can become more others aware. So now we're talking about
16:07
social awareness. Yes.
16:10
How many times have you been at a veteran thing and somebody has
16:13
triggered you because they didn't, you know, watch their
16:16
P's and Q's. They were blabbing an
16:18
inappropriate story that you didn't want to hear today or or
16:22
ever, but it just came out after you, right.
16:25
And so we teach that self-awareness, which becomes
16:29
social awareness. And that is how you end up with
16:33
this beautiful transition of fist to flower.
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And what do you end up with? A woman who is at ease, she's at
16:41
ease. So it leads to emotional
16:44
intelligence too. 100% it does. Because So what do you find
16:50
women veterans are most upset about?
16:53
Is there, is there a common theme or is it just all over the
16:57
spectrum of issues and, and situations?
17:00
Or is there really a resounding like, this is what's going on
17:03
and this is what's really driving this, this emotion?
17:08
That's a great question. You know, I think that one of
17:10
the top words that we can put in there is betrayal.
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Whether it's self betrayal, we did things that we shouldn't
17:18
have done or didn't agree with. We don't love ourselves enough
17:21
to forgive ourselves of that maybe institutional betrayal.
17:25
That is extremely common. I know I was betrayed by the
17:28
military when I was in. I was betrayed by my ex-husband.
17:31
There's the right when you're betrayed by something that you
17:34
love and you give your all to the healing that needs to come
17:39
from that is very hard to to allow yourself to have.
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So betrayal is definitely one of the biggest things that women
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veterans are facing. Do you think there's a disparity
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in women being recognized as veterans too?
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Do you think that, you know, like if, if there's a male and a
18:00
female together and they're at some event and they assume that
18:03
the man is the veteran versus the women being the veteran?
18:07
And there's a lot of that too. I mean of.
18:09
Course there is. I walked.
18:10
Into the American Legion the first time, she goes, Oh, you're
18:13
with the Ladies Auxiliary, and I was.
18:15
Like, yeah, no, no. No, not I'm.
18:19
And it right. And that's awful and it feels
18:22
awful and it should feel awful. And I want you to feel how awful
18:27
that feels. And, and it's important that we
18:31
move past that. Otherwise we're angry all the
18:34
time. Because here's the thing, right?
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Yes, it happened there. It's going to happen next week.
18:39
It's going to happen a month from now.
18:41
It's going to happen two months from now.
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I've been doing this work since 2019.
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And you know what? It was happening then.
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It was happening in the 50s. It was happening in the 20s.
18:50
Like there is, this is not going to stop anytime soon.
18:53
And that sucks, and I'm sorry that that is how it is.
18:57
It's getting better. I think so.
18:59
Absolutely getting better, but I don't think it's ever going to
19:02
go away, right? So how do we?
19:08
How do we flip the script? How do we become self aware?
19:11
How do we become satisfied with who we are as women veterans, as
19:16
mothers, as daughters, as you know, wives?
19:20
How do we? How do we change the narrative
19:23
to to be in a positive space where we feel connected, we feel
19:28
like we're being heard and we feel accepted for just the
19:31
person that we are? Is there like a magic sauce or a
19:35
magic a magic button? We push and say you know OK now
19:38
I'm self aware and I'm happy. Well, that would be wonderful,
19:42
wouldn't it? You know, a big part of that is
19:46
where we are in life and the different phases and what's been
19:50
handed to us, right, what we're living through.
19:53
And so we refer to that as the wilderness.
19:56
What I have found is that if we stereotype, your typical male
20:02
military service is very linear. He goes in, he serves, he comes
20:07
out. Maybe there's a little bit of
20:09
shifting in between, but for the most part the observation is
20:12
that it's a very linear path. That is 100% not the case with
20:18
our military women. It is extremely rare that I
20:22
talked to a woman who went into the military at a young age, did
20:26
her years and came straight off the active duty retirement.
20:29
That's amazing. I love those women.
20:32
That is like the teeny, tiniest sliver of the landscape of what
20:37
a woman veteran is. And so it's this shifting around
20:40
these explosions that happen maybe literally right in front
20:46
of us, where all of a sudden a wilderness has been handed to
20:49
us. And we're asking ourselves, how
20:52
did we get here? How do I escape this?
20:55
How do I win this? Because at the end of the day,
20:58
these situations are really unwinnable.
21:01
And that's what that's what we're fighting, Terry, is we've
21:03
got our fists in the air and we're trying to win situations
21:06
that, quite frankly, we're not going to win.
21:08
And So what do we do when you can't win a situation?
21:12
You navigate it, you can move through it.
21:15
And that's where Mission Wildflower has grown.
21:18
So we have a newsletter, we have Substack.
21:20
And every week we're publishing twice a week where we talk about
21:24
the different wilderness that women veterans are facing.
21:27
I mean the caretaking wilderness.
21:29
Raise your hand if you're a caretaker.
21:32
If you're a mother, you're a caretaker.
21:33
If you are married, you are a caretaker, even if you're young
21:38
and healthy. We've got aging parents.
21:42
We've got our neighbors that we're caring for.
21:46
Just being a caretaker is wilderness in its own.
21:49
There's what we call root pulls when things feel like they
21:53
shouldn't be this hard, but they are, right?
21:56
I mean, we've got a great story. One of our women veterans, she's
22:00
a combat vet, and she was raised in an abusive household.
22:04
And now she finds herself with her own issues as a woman
22:08
veteran, having to be the caretaker of her father, who now
22:12
has dementia. And he's got nobody else.
22:15
So she's going to visit him in the hospital, and he's
22:18
continuing to verbally abuse her like he has his entire life,
22:22
right? Can you just feel the strength
22:25
of that woman must have to be able to sit in that wilderness
22:28
as a caretaker. She's not going to win that
22:31
situation, is she? But we can be right there with
22:34
her and we can help her navigate it.
22:38
Yeah, that's a difficult space when your parents, you know,
22:42
need care and and they're not aware of the care, the level of
22:46
care they need and then maybe are not appreciative of what
22:49
you're doing for them even. And and maybe we aren't as kids
22:53
appreciative of what our parents do for us.
22:54
I hope at some point in time we tell our parents, you know,
22:56
thank you for what you did because we know it was a
22:58
sacrifice. So we know.
23:00
Every parent is waiting for that moment.
23:02
We know we weren't the easiest of of kids to to deal with.
23:05
So, you know, hopefully everyone's out there thanking
23:08
their parents right now for, for all they did for us.
23:10
But but when the tables are turned and where the caregivers
23:14
are, the support for our parents, it really is a
23:16
challenge and really is difficult because the parents
23:19
feel like, well, why are you telling me what to do?
23:22
You know, you're the kid. And so it's it's really hard.
23:26
And then when they're not appreciative of you caring for
23:29
them, that makes a double. It makes a double.
23:31
Absolutely. And it's not just the parents.
23:34
I mean, I found myself as a caretaker to a husband because
23:38
he was an Army Ranger. We were married for nearly a
23:41
decade and he definitely found his way into alcohol addiction,
23:46
wouldn't admit it and couldn't get out of it.
23:49
And so these types of situations are very complicated, right?
23:53
And I speak to you as a woman with lived experience, like I
23:56
have been through some stuff. And right, nevertheless, we
24:01
don't stay there. We navigate the wilderness.
24:04
We get our brethren to our left and our right and they just walk
24:08
us through and we will maybe get out the other side of it.
24:11
Or maybe not, right? I mean, maybe if you are the
24:14
mother of a special needs child like I am, you're a caretaker of
24:18
that for the rest of your life. If you so choose, could you
24:21
choose to walk away? Yeah, some people do.
24:24
Yeah, that is difficult that, you know, having children in
24:29
general is difficult. And then adding a level of
24:31
complexity to that, you know, really talks about resilience of
24:36
the person to be able to handle that.
24:37
So obviously you're very resilient in dealing with all
24:41
these different things you've faced in your military time and
24:45
then on the civilian side when you've been navigating some of
24:49
these difficult situations. I applaud that for sure because
24:53
it's tough. It is tough.
24:55
And you know, Terry, I don't know that I'm any more resilient
24:58
than any other woman veteran that I've met.
25:01
I mean, these life quakes that we live this type of wilderness
25:06
that exists everywhere. And so I'm on a mission to
25:10
figure out the most common types of wilderness that women veteran
25:14
are facing and we're capturing them in books and we're writing
25:17
about how to navigate through these situations.
25:19
So caregiving is a good example. We also wrote about the
25:22
promotion wilderness. Do you remember when you're
25:25
serving or maybe even in your civilian job, you get promoted
25:28
and all of a sudden you're living on an island, right?
25:32
You lost your friends, you're not quite at the par level of
25:37
your Co workers and that new promotion level.
25:40
It's a very weird wilderness to try to navigate through.
25:43
And so that those are some of the moments that we're
25:45
capturing. And it's really fun because when
25:48
you get into the articles that are being written, it's not
25:51
Shelly, it's actually my team and it's all the interviews that
25:56
we're doing with all of the different women veterans.
25:58
And so you get to have all these different perspectives and
26:01
voices captured into how we can navigate this wilderness with
26:04
each other. That's awesome.
26:06
So where does somebody read about the different interviews
26:09
and the different things you're writing about?
26:12
Is it all on sub stack or is it somewhere else or you're being
26:15
published somewhere, or where does someone navigate if they
26:19
want to get involved? I guess that's what I'm asking.
26:22
The best answer is however they want to receive the information.
26:26
So if you like to watch videos, we have a YouTube channel that's
26:29
others of herself. If you want to listen, I have a
26:33
podcast called Hardcore and at Ease and we get into all this on
26:37
the podcast. I'm also Co host of Veterans
26:39
Radio, so you might hear me at once a month on Veterans Radio.
26:43
But the bulk of the work, the container that all of our work
26:46
lives in really is sub stack. So it's Shelly Rood ROOD.
26:51
That's SHELLYROOD at substack.com or
26:55
excuseme.substack.com. And on the sub stack, you can
27:00
subscribe for free at no cost, or you can subscribe and you can
27:03
get longer, more fleshed out versions of the articles, which
27:07
are in fact chapters of books that we're writing and
27:09
compiling. That's awesome.
27:12
So you never thought that your, your military service would
27:16
transition into something this huge and this, you know, 'cause
27:21
you studying or wanting to be a chaplain really, I think lends
27:24
itself nicely to this others over self concept and mission
27:28
set and then being able to write about and talk about the
27:32
different issues that women face.
27:33
I mean, you're being a chaplain means you're listening and
27:38
you're really taking in what people are saying and really
27:42
kind of, you know, I'm, I'm trying to think of the right
27:46
word, but you're finding answers and you're finding Nuggets of
27:50
information that can help somebody transition past
27:52
whatever this issue is. So that's what a chaplain I
27:55
think does in my head anyway. At least the chaplains I worked
27:58
with, they're listening intently to really understand the issues
28:02
and then they're working on a solution, you know?
28:04
And it's a personal solution because the person actually has
28:07
to do the work. It's not somebody else doing it
28:10
for you. Somebody might offer you tools,
28:12
but it's really the person that has to really engage with what's
28:16
being presented and really want that because until somebody
28:19
wants help, they're not going to get any help it no matter how
28:22
many people try. I do so appreciate your kind
28:25
words, Terry, because there was a time when I was really
28:29
battling with my ex-husband, with his drinking, thinking
28:33
about leaving the marriage. And I had actually decided on
28:36
divorce. And then I was at Fort Huachuca,
28:38
AZ. And for the first time in my
28:42
life, this was before I was like a, you know, a real good
28:46
religious believer of anything. But for the first time in my
28:49
life, and I think I was in my late 20s, I went to talk to the
28:52
chaplain and he was not a very good one.
28:58
When, when I I kind of just briefly mentioned to him, you
29:02
know, I'm, I'm really battling with divorcing my husband.
29:07
He's abusive, alcohol is involved.
29:10
I know it's the right thing to do.
29:11
We do have a four year old boy. It's time to end the situation.
29:16
And I mean, I was AI think it was a captain at the time and he
29:19
was a Lieutenant Colonel. And, you know, I mean, I'm not
29:21
talking like uneducated. None of those increased risk
29:26
factors were at play here. I mean, we were like, we should
29:29
have known better, right? But that just goes to show that
29:31
you can't stereotype these types of situations.
29:34
So the chaplain, he hands me a video that says, you know,
29:40
basically trying to talk me out of divorcing my husband and it,
29:45
and in that moment, I mean, I could say male versus female, if
29:49
you will, but I just was sitting there thinking, what type of
29:53
chaplain looks at a woman who is in a situation of potential harm
29:59
and tells her to stay? Yeah.
30:02
It's heartbreaking. Yeah.
30:05
So things like that continue to drive me every day where I know
30:09
that the need is there. I know that there's women
30:12
listening who are like, Oh my gosh, she gets it.
30:15
Nobody else gets it. But Shelly sounds like she gets
30:18
it. And it's it's not because of me,
30:20
like you said, it's because of all the other women that we've
30:22
been talking to and collecting the stories and interviewing.
30:26
And the perspectives are so much deeper and so much more real
30:29
than I ever thought that they were.
30:32
What's been your biggest aha moment in doing all this?
30:37
All this work with others over self or with the veteran women
30:41
veteran strong. What's been your biggest aha
30:45
Like man, I, I, I never would have thought that getting
30:49
started in this. I never would have really seen
30:51
this thing or that thing good. Question.
30:57
It's so hard. My aha.
31:00
Well, so my aha, my aha moment is that this work, if you choose
31:05
to take down the fist is easy. OK, I'm, I'm just going to say
31:08
it. It's really easy to shoot that
31:10
fist up in the air and say, I can't believe you didn't shake
31:13
my hand, but you shook his hand. That's that is reactionary.
31:16
It's a very easy thing to do. It's very natural.
31:18
You know, it's hard taking a breath, lowering the fist,
31:23
opening your flower and knowing that you served and that you
31:27
don't need to be validated externally.
31:29
It's hard work. And it's not just hard work for
31:32
us. And to have that self-awareness,
31:34
it's hard work for the social awareness too.
31:36
Do you know how many times people tell me that you know
31:39
what we do is just not enough? I mean, I get emails and
31:43
messages. You're a woman, veterans group,
31:45
You should be marching on Washington because we need more
31:47
benefits. You know what?
31:50
There's a space for that and it's not us.
31:53
We exist specifically to hold the space of the spirit of the
31:58
woman veteran and we want her to love herself and we want her to
32:02
love her other women veterans. And that is it.
32:04
That's, that's as far as we're going.
32:06
We're not getting into resources.
32:08
We're not getting into how we can help you with your benefits.
32:12
We really just want to teach her to love herself and love those
32:15
around her and it and then it's magic, Terry, right.
32:18
So there, there it is. That's how we do it.
32:21
That's the magic. That's the magic sauce.
32:23
No, I love that you relate everything to wildflower and
32:28
growing and and resilience, because that's a that's a new
32:31
concept to me. I mean, I hadn't really thought
32:34
in those terms, but a wildflower is very Hardy and very
32:37
resilient, as you say, because they can grow in the the
32:40
craziest places. You wouldn't think flowers can
32:42
grow and they do. And so having a space where
32:46
veteran, women veteran can grow and experience, you know, the
32:51
dynamics of other veterans that have similar service or maybe
32:54
not even similar, but can understand and maybe share a
32:58
perspective that they weren't thinking about because they've
33:00
not lived it. So it's really nice to have a
33:03
place where women veterans can feel like they're understood and
33:06
they're heard and they don't have to be wrong because their
33:10
service wasn't like everybody else's.
33:12
Because I think that really is what a lot of women veterans
33:15
struggle with is like, well, I'm not that cool.
33:17
I'm not one of the cool kids because I didn't do, you know,
33:20
the fun stuff that, you know, everybody sees in movies and all
33:22
that, that, you know, I may have been supporting something in the
33:25
background or I may have been, you know, treating a patient or
33:29
I may have been, you know, just, you know, logistics.
33:32
So I'm out giving supplies. So I like my service isn't the
33:36
same as somebody that's out, you know, doing missions and then
33:39
coming back in, in, in and out of the wire.
33:41
Or maybe they didn't go overseas at all and they've just done
33:44
stateside duty and, you know, just working on things around
33:48
here that were very important so that people could go overseas
33:51
and do things. So I think that women kind of
33:54
struggle or, or maybe even maybe not just women, but some
33:58
veterans struggle with, you know, I'm not one of the cool
34:01
kids. I'm a veteran.
34:02
But, you know, I don't, you know, I don't see myself any
34:05
different, you know, in that group or in that, that circle.
34:11
So is that a lot of what you hear too is people downplaying
34:15
their service and downplaying what they've done?
34:18
Oh, absolutely. I mean it.
34:19
So if you ask a man about his service time and I am
34:22
stereotyping here, what he'll pretty much do is he'll give you
34:25
a chronological report and he'll start at the beginning and he'll
34:29
go through all of the deployments and all of the
34:31
promotions. And then I was at this unit and
34:34
it's it's just how a man's brain works.
34:37
If you ask a woman about her service time, you're going to
34:40
get a totally different answer. It's typically not
34:43
chronological. She doesn't usually go in order
34:46
of when she went into when she got out.
34:48
She tends to go more towards what was most meaningful to her
34:52
or talks about periods of growth or talks about significant
34:55
challenges. And that's the difference.
34:58
I think when we talk about caring for the woman veterans
35:00
heart, I do believe that men and women can perceive their value
35:07
through their performance, especially those of us that work
35:11
as first responders and military and veterans performance is
35:15
everything, right? Our PT tests and our scores.
35:17
And I, I mean, listen, I was like the Iron woman or the Iron
35:21
Girl. I always got those awards for
35:24
fastest run and most sit ups. I think I was up to like 125 in
35:30
the two minutes. That's awesome.
35:32
I had three babies later. I'm like, yeah, right.
35:36
But I I do believe that, yeah. Both the men and the women, we
35:41
do feel that our performance dictates our value.
35:45
So what do we do with that? The men will tell you to handle
35:48
it a certain way. Women feel it differently.
35:52
They just do. They just do.
35:54
And so it I really felt like there was a need and a crying in
35:59
the woman veteran care space for something softer, for something
36:02
that rides the line. We're I'm not boho like my
36:06
podcast is called hardcore and at ease.
36:09
I love CrossFit, I love loud music.
36:12
I'm in Detroit, MI. I mean, I love things that go
36:15
boom. And I was ARMY, right.
36:18
And so when you think of Shelly rude, you definitely don't think
36:22
of a rose or a Lotus flower. Not that there's anything wrong
36:25
with my yogi's that are out there, but that's not that's not
36:28
us either. When you think of me, I am the
36:31
wildflower. And so we have 8 different types
36:34
of wildflowers. To get back to your point,
36:35
Terry, for instance, a primrose, one of the 8 is a primrose and
36:40
another one is a sunflower. And they're exact opposites.
36:43
Whether you're an external processor, you're a sunflower
36:46
like me, or maybe you're a primrose, which is the opposite.
36:49
The primrose is a very deep thinker.
36:52
She's not necessarily quote UN quote, quiet, but the way that a
36:56
primrose works is that the roots take hold and the flowers
37:01
actually live and grow underground for a long period of
37:05
time before the bloom shows. That's the beauty.
37:09
Like, can you just picture that woman veteran?
37:11
You know who she is, right? And she just, she's a deep
37:14
thinker. She goes heavy into textbooks
37:17
and materials that require a lot of thought and strategic
37:19
thinking. And when she has something to
37:22
say, it is really important. I bet you, if you can think of
37:26
that woman and she takes this personality assessment, she's
37:28
going to come out of Primrose. And that's the power of it.
37:32
Because now she'll be able to say there's nothing wrong with
37:35
me. I'm not broken.
37:36
This is just my pattern. This is how I operate.
37:39
And when you know that somebody's a Primrose or, Oh my
37:42
gosh, my iris. OK, so Iris if you're an Iris
37:46
you are like going. I mean this is probably like my
37:50
fighter pilots and they sometimes your job might require
37:54
a few more personality characteristics that like an
37:58
iris might have. Sometimes we have to act like 1
38:01
flower in our job situations. It's easy to hate an iris
38:05
because she is going fast and far and she is going to stomp on
38:09
you if you are in her way. You know what?
38:12
You can't hate her, right? And that's the whole point of
38:14
this. Why are we hating our irises?
38:17
We should love her, she should love herself, and we should all
38:20
recognize where and how our own personalities are working for us
38:25
and against us and against us. That's true.
38:29
Some personality traits do don't do us any favors sometimes in
38:34
certain situations. You know, if if we're kind of
38:36
one of those that just going to take charge and then it requires
38:40
A softer touch, then maybe we're getting in our own way when it
38:43
comes to that. So we have to kind of work with,
38:46
like you say, the personality traits we have and then make the
38:49
most of them and understand sometimes are normal isn't the
38:54
right approach and we need to think about another approach in
38:57
in a particular well. We do, and in that it's easy to
39:02
not like ourselves. OK, so I'm a sunflower, which
39:06
means that I absolutely love and thrive Consistency.
39:10
I love schedules. I love The Who, what, where,
39:12
when, why? I'm a very organized,
39:15
straightforward person. I love having a path and a thing
39:18
to do when something shifts, like a plan gets cancelled at
39:23
the last minute. Terry, it feels like the world
39:27
is crumbling from underneath me because like, this podcast
39:31
episode tonight, right? I had to go through so much to
39:34
make sure 100% that the kids were handled.
39:38
The pizza was here, My son's older son's baseball game was
39:42
done, My husband, right? Like I put so much effort that
39:46
as a sunflower into this moment. So if you had cancelled on me, I
39:52
would, I would crumble a little bit inside.
39:54
I would, Oh my gosh, like I put so much into this and it would
39:57
feel like the world was shifting beneath me and, and somebody
40:01
who's not a sunflower would just look at me and say, Shelly, you
40:04
just need to be more flexible. And you know what?
40:09
That's not how I operate, right? I am 42 years old.
40:13
I know how I operate. There is no Shelly.
40:15
Be more flexible. This is me.
40:18
The planner. This is how excellent things get
40:21
done in my world, right? And so I have to learn to love
40:24
that about myself, to recognize that about myself and also how
40:28
to manage it so it doesn't get out of control.
40:31
I I need to embody the Primrose a little bit every now and then.
40:34
Well, I mean, that is a good trait though, to be a planner
40:37
and to be, you know, very methodical and very thorough
40:40
about everything that you're doing so that you get the best
40:42
result. Because like tonight, for
40:43
instance, I didn't send the link timely to Shelly to log on.
40:48
And I'm like, why isn't she here?
40:50
And I'm thinking, well, because you didn't send her a link, so
40:52
how can she be here? So I appreciate your flexibility
40:55
and understanding that I overlooked that small detail
40:59
tonight and that you're on here and you're, you know, you
41:03
didn't, you didn't fall apart. You, you were totally cool about
41:06
the whole thing. You're like, yeah, well, I'm,
41:08
I'm glad it wasn't me. And I was like, yeah, I'm so
41:10
sorry. It was me tonight.
41:12
I love it. Well, you're not a sunflower, I
41:13
promise. If you took the assessment, I
41:15
don't think you'd be a sunflower, right?
41:16
So I have to be able to forgive that in you, because I know
41:19
that's just not who you are. Well, I appreciate that.
41:22
And I'll have to take the assessment so I know who I am.
41:25
I can't. Yeah, I can't wait to see it.
41:28
That'll be interesting. So I do have the different
41:32
websites up here about because you do a couple different
41:35
things. You're also a speaker and you
41:37
also. Yeah, so can we talk about that
41:39
too? So one is the mission ambition
41:41
and it's the leadership component and then the others
41:45
over self is the mentoring and the small groups and, you know,
41:52
making a difference that way. So do you want to talk about
41:54
what you do as a speaker and, and what you're what you're
41:59
asked to do or where you're asked to go with that and how
42:01
you see yourself in that space? It all starts with Mission
42:06
Ambition. That's the name of our company,
42:08
Mission Ambition LLC. And we're a consulting company,
42:11
which means that we're advisors. We go around and offer strategic
42:16
advice to those that we know that we can serve West and our
42:20
bread and butter does tend to be military veteran of first
42:23
responder communities. Examples of our clients are
42:26
Macomb County, for instance, which we are the home of TACOM.
42:31
It's a huge aerospace and defense footprint right here in
42:34
in Michigan and Southeast Michigan.
42:36
Another example is the Michigan Department of Health and Human
42:39
Services is also one of our clients.
42:41
And so who we serve tends to be these larger organizations,
42:45
similar to a nonprofit. You could think of them as your
42:48
funding partners, right? That's kind of the the business
42:51
to business aspect of it. But then you have your
42:53
consumers, right? So who is actually consuming the
42:56
things that we're teaching? And the consumer tends to be an
43:01
ambitious person. If you're going to follow Shelly
43:03
Rude, that means that you are ambitious.
43:07
There's something inside of you that is calling out.
43:10
I want to fulfill my purpose. I want to go for more in life.
43:13
I'm not happy with where I'm at. And that is the heart that we
43:17
try to tap into because, because if you lose your ambition, how
43:26
sad is that, right? And and I worry about this lack
43:30
of desire to go after things that I'm seeing.
43:35
And so that's where, right, Others Over Self is the
43:37
methodology that we teach through our company.
43:40
And if you go to othersoverself.org, I'm sorry,
43:43
others over self.com, then that's where you'll find our
43:46
blog and the majority of our teachings that supplement the
43:49
sub stack. So again, Others Over Self is
43:52
the blog and where you can kind of find the landing space for a
43:55
lot of our musings that go back for a decade now.
43:58
Whereas the sub stack is something that we created
44:01
earlier this year specifically to teach to and by the women
44:06
veterans themselves. And so those are the 2 main
44:08
entities that were focused on. Interestingly enough, Terry, I
44:12
have done something crazy and in the in the words of Melissa
44:17
Washington, who's the head of the Women Veterans Alliance, she
44:19
said revolutionary. So I have digitally cloned
44:24
myself. Her name is Digital Shelley and
44:28
we're getting ready to launch her within the next 90 days
44:31
here. So that is a huge thing that is
44:33
happening behind the scenes. So how's that going to work?
44:36
What's Digital Shelley going to do?
44:38
Digital Shelley is created as a 24/7 peer support, so you don't
44:44
have to be a woman veteran to interact with her, but that is
44:47
where the basis of her knowledge comes in.
44:49
So Terry, if you would imagine she's an AI that you can
44:53
interact with both. You can text and chat with her.
44:55
You can also call her and she has a version of my voice and
45:00
you can have conversation. I have coffee with Digital
45:02
Shelley almost every morning. Oh my goodness.
45:04
She's smarter than me. She's much nicer than me.
45:08
She remembers things a lot faster because she she's not
45:11
open sourced to the Internet. She is fed the knowledge that we
45:16
feed her. And so every single podcast
45:20
interview that I've ever done, every interview that I've ever
45:22
done, every article that I've ever written is inside of
45:25
digital Shelley. And she can recall it just like
45:28
that. Whereas the real Shelley.
45:30
It's going to take a while for me to find that link.
45:34
Oh man, So how did you come up with that?
45:38
Great mentorship is the answer. You know, when when you look at
45:41
the women veteran care space, we've been doing this in
45:44
Michigan since 2019. We have 11 small groups just in
45:49
the state of Michigan. We're expanding to California,
45:51
we're expanding to Oregon, we're expanding to Florida.
45:54
And we needed to figure out how to scale without losing the
45:58
quality of service that we're already providing.
46:01
And so I'm actually working with mentors Eddie Yoon and
46:05
Christopher Lockhead. They're known as the category
46:08
pirates, and they are two of the smartest business minds that you
46:11
will ever come across. And I give them full credit for
46:14
the encouragement and the development of digital Shelley.
46:18
That's awesome. I wouldn't have.
46:20
I wouldn't even thought of doing that.
46:21
But I think that's amazing. And I think it's even more fun
46:24
that you talk to Shelly every morning and you have coffee.
46:28
She's so smart. I love that.
46:32
That's amazing. So in a small group, can you be
46:36
somewhere else in the US and still be a part of a small group
46:39
with the women's program? You absolutely can.
46:43
So our peer support program, we called Be at Ease Woman Veteran
46:46
because that's the aspirational identity.
46:49
We want her to really be at ease and no matter where you are, we
46:53
meet every month. If you're in, if you're around
46:55
one of our in person groups, you can meet us once a month there.
46:59
Or we do have a virtual group as well that meets once a month on
47:02
the 3rd Thursday. We call that roll call and we'll
47:05
have anywhere from 5 to 25 women show up for that call.
47:09
And then we have multiple facilitators on that call.
47:12
So the whole purpose of it is to break up in small groups and
47:16
have those meaningful conversations.
47:18
We're not getting into therapy. We're not here to be therapist,
47:22
we are here to talk about forward thinking materials and
47:26
to do life together. So good example of what we did
47:29
actually last week on our roll call is we did storytelling and
47:34
we taught like the principles of how to take a memory and turn it
47:38
into a story. And so we would have one woman
47:41
in the group share just a random military memory that she thought
47:44
was a lot of fun, right? Only fun we don't want to get.
47:47
We don't need to be triggering people here.
47:49
So like a military birthday, for instance, that you celebrated
47:53
overseas or without your friends and family.
47:55
Like tell us about that. So a woman would share that
47:57
memory and then the other women had permission to challenge her
48:02
to go deeper in that memory and pull out the things that make it
48:04
a great story. Like what did it smell like?
48:07
What did the room look like? Was it hardwood, wood or carpet?
48:11
And so by the time the storytelling exercise was done,
48:14
she had not just a memory, but a really good story and she could
48:17
remember that so much better. So just a good example of what
48:20
we do in our in our peer groups. That's awesome.
48:24
I need to tap in to all that. I haven't quite gotten there
48:28
yet. You know, there's a point in
48:30
time where some people get overwhelmed.
48:33
There's so much information. Sometimes people are overwhelmed
48:35
and they're afraid to get started.
48:37
Well, I think that's me. I think I'm afraid to get
48:39
started. So, so I'm going to do that
48:42
though. I'm going to challenge myself to
48:44
Step 1 foot forward and do that because I think that's really
48:48
the key is progress. Any kind of progress just moving
48:52
forward just an inch is still progress.
48:54
And you know, Terry, what we say first, the first thing to just
48:59
get started with anything, with anything Shelly Rude or Mission
49:01
Wildflower is the sub stack because it's non evasive.
49:05
You don't have to pay money. You can just consume all of the
49:08
goodness and all of the wisdom, right?
49:11
And if you're reading these articles that come out and if
49:13
they resonate with you, you will find yourself intentionally
49:17
wanting, right? That curiosity will be sparked
49:20
and you'll want to dig deeper. And then you'll be like, Oh my
49:22
gosh, I want to read this full article.
49:25
Maybe I do want to interact with digital Shelley.
49:27
Maybe I am ready for a peer group.
49:29
I mean, going to a peer group with other military women is
49:33
terrifying. I think so.
49:36
So I am, I'm not saying, right. That's what we used to do,
49:39
right? We used to just say, come to
49:41
group, come to the peer group, come to the group, meet the
49:43
women. And you know what?
49:45
We weren't doing justice to how hard that act really is for us.
49:51
And so we needed to come up with a solution so that we ourselves
49:55
were much more comfortable saying, if you're not ready for
49:58
group, don't come to group. We're not pushing you to come to
50:01
group, But we do want you to have increased self-awareness
50:05
and self love so that when you do feel like maybe you're ready
50:09
to make a couple of friends, you know that we're here for you.
50:12
And we have a shared mindset. We have a shared way of
50:14
communicating. I love that and I'm definitely
50:18
going to look it up and start that way because I love that you
50:22
have dual entry. Like there's a couple ways to
50:25
engage. You don't have to just do one
50:28
form of engagement because like you said, everyone is a little
50:30
bit different and some people are like, oh, let's I want the
50:34
group. I'm I'm going to take charge of
50:35
the group. I'm going to start, you know,
50:37
whatever they're all in and they're ready to go at any point
50:40
in time. And then there's others that are
50:41
like, you know, I don't know, I kind of want to, but I'm not
50:44
quite sure. So it's good that there is
50:47
another way for people to engage without really giving their full
50:51
like I'm all in yet. I'm until they're all in, you
50:54
know, until they're ready, till they feel that that
50:56
connectedness and they feel like they're going to find support
51:00
and find some solace in other women veteran and really engage
51:06
with that, with that platform. Well, you know what I found?
51:09
I found that the women who are like, I'm going to jump in with
51:13
both feet right now, let's do this thing.
51:15
I have found that that is because they're trying to find
51:19
value in performance, right. We volunteer for positions.
51:23
We, we want to take the well, I'll be in charge.
51:26
I'll, I'll take it. Nobody else is doing it.
51:29
And it's coming back to that need to feel validated by having
51:33
a position of authority. It's a, it's a challenging
51:35
concept, I understand, but sometimes if we're really honest
51:39
with ourselves, we can give ourselves permission to say no.
51:43
I couldn't believe it. I was in this networking meeting
51:45
one time and we had a, a new woman in the group.
51:48
She'd been there a couple of months, Terry.
51:51
She was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen.
51:53
She was so put together non military.
51:56
I wanted to be her when I grew up.
51:58
She owned her own marketing company.
52:00
And then they said, you know, we would love to nominate you to be
52:03
vice president this next time around.
52:05
And she said no. And I couldn't believe she said
52:08
no. And I, and from that moment on,
52:10
right, it's like it gave me permission to to be a beautiful,
52:15
well put together woman and to be able to say, you know, I
52:19
don't need this in my life right now.
52:20
It has nothing to do with validating who I am or what I
52:24
bring to the table. And that's one of the exercises
52:28
we also do in the peer group. We like to do audits and we
52:30
write down all the things that we're involved in, right?
52:33
And, and you hear, I'm sure you go around the horn and
52:36
networking and women are so proud that they say they're on
52:39
37 different boards and right. And then in my head I'm thinking
52:42
you poor. Woman, right?
52:45
Yeah, you are over tasked right now.
52:49
So what is the most important thing you'd want to tell a woman
52:53
veteran tonight about any of the platforms or engaging with them
52:58
or just in general about a military service as a female?
53:03
Is there any words of a wisdom for those that are still in
53:06
maybe or those that are going to transition out of the military
53:09
soon? What advice would you give
53:11
someone about, you know, finding value in who you are?
53:15
Because a lot, like you said, a lot of people place their value
53:19
in that uniform, that's who they were.
53:20
And then once they take that off, it's like, who am I now?
53:23
I don't know. So how do you make that
53:25
transition? And what would you tell somebody
53:27
that's in that space? Or maybe they're retired, but
53:30
they're still like not feeling. They're feeling disconnected, I
53:34
guess because they're out of the service.
53:36
Well, the first thing I would say is that you are exactly who
53:39
you're supposed to be, and being at ease is available to you
53:43
right now. Even in the wilderness.
53:46
You can have a sense of peace, even when the terrain around you
53:50
feels hostile. It's a hard thing to understand,
53:53
but you can have that. You see, every woman is her own
53:57
wildflower, and she's her own blend.
53:59
She's going to be a certain percentage sunflower and a
54:02
certain percentage iris and a certain percentage Daisy.
54:05
Her blend is not the problem. Your flower, your bloom is not
54:09
the problem. The problem is the terrain.
54:12
If a beautiful wildflower is in hostile terrain, it's going to
54:15
be harder for her to bloom. And the more that she can
54:19
understand the type of bloom that she is and the types of
54:22
flowers that are around her, the better she's going to be able to
54:25
navigate that terrain. And she is not alone.
54:29
I see you, woman veteran. I know the battles and the
54:32
struggles that you're facing on the daily with isolation, with
54:35
overeating, with under eating, with unhealthy attachments to
54:39
relationships. I've been there, I've lived it,
54:43
and so have a lot of us. And so it's just a simple
54:46
invitation to say, come along and let's do life together.
54:51
I love that you're so eloquent with what you say and the way
54:55
you put things in such simple terms and you can relate to
55:00
various facets of where we are at at different points in our
55:04
life. We know with marriages or with
55:07
leaving the service or with having kids or with kids leaving
55:11
home because they're, you know, they're of age to do so.
55:14
There's a bunch of transitioning points for us and you're very
55:17
eloquent at speaking to those and really resonating with
55:21
females that are are, and males too, for that matter.
55:23
I mean, everyone has a phase in their life where they're this
55:26
person and then the next time they're having to transition to
55:29
this other person because that that door is closing or that
55:33
chapter is closing. And now this is who you are now
55:36
because, you know, situation dictates.
55:39
So we're all faced with these challenges about who we're going
55:43
to be next. Like you said, I wondered a long
55:46
time who, what, who or what I was going to be when I grew up.
55:49
And it took me, you know, like 40 some years to figure out who
55:52
I wanted to be when I grow up. You know what's?
55:54
The answer? What's the answer?
55:56
Well, I finally decided it's others over self.
55:58
I really want to serve people. That's really what I want to do.
56:01
And I finally embraced that, you know, like I couldn't really
56:04
understand that that was really the calling like, well, that's
56:07
that's not a job. Like what is that?
56:10
What does that look like? I mean, I know it's easy to do
56:13
something nice for somebody, but how do you translate that into a
56:17
daily job where it it pays the bills and you can still and you
56:21
can still serve others. So it's like, what, what job,
56:23
what fit is that for me? And then I finally figured out
56:26
it's human resources like that is the job fit for me because
56:30
I'm actively helping people coming into the organization
56:34
while they're in the organization, while they're
56:36
exiting the organization. So really it's a full circle
56:39
moment for me. So I realized that that is what
56:42
I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to be in a service
56:45
connected space where I'm able to help people that way.
56:48
So what it that's kind of what I did in the Army and that's what,
56:51
you know, I do now on the civilian side.
56:54
So I finally figured out that's who I'm supposed to be when I
56:57
grew up. So I embrace that and I got a
56:58
master's in it. So that's how I figured it out.
57:02
I love that I have a master's in as well, and I was actually
57:05
looking into LinkedIn and I was laughing of like, oh, this is
57:08
what you do. You grow up, you get out of the
57:10
military, you get your master's and you have a podcast.
57:12
Perfect. I'm following Terry's footsteps.
57:16
Yeah, I guess that's the natural order of business.
57:19
I don't know. Oh well, it's been such a
57:23
pleasure talking to you. I have really enjoyed our
57:25
conversation. I am so sorry for the delay in
57:27
getting you the information to get onto the podcast, but I'm
57:30
sure glad you came because you're just so full of
57:33
information and I'm so looking forward to engaging with your
57:36
platform and I hope others do as well.
57:38
Thank you. So.
57:39
It's been an absolute joy, Terry, and thank you for what
57:42
you bring into my life. I really enjoy listening to you.
57:45
Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate that.
57:46
I am. I'm going to enjoy listening to
57:49
to digital Shelley as well, I think.
57:52
Just go easy on her, all right? I get some colorful questions
57:56
that come up. I know what you ask if you let
57:59
me just say. That's a note to self.
58:03
Be careful what you ask, Shelly. Now you know what, never mind,
58:07
we just we just flooded the audience and I know that we've
58:10
got some instigators that are already typing some questions of
58:13
so. Well, thank you so much for
58:16
joining tonight and we look forward to engaging with the
58:20
platform and with hearing more about what you do.
58:22
So we'll have to have you back on after you get Shelly Foley
58:26
operational and you start to get some feedback from everybody
58:30
that's engaging. I'll I'll be interested to hear.
58:32
Oh, it's going to be a riot. Thank you, Terry.
58:34
Looking forward to it. Thank you.
58:36
Well, this is trace around signing off Hi, I'm beaker with
58:40
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