Latest / The Reformatory / The Minnesota Protest

Transcript

The Minnesota Protest · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_09]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_09]: As long as I'm not for me, we can add the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_05]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church, and by the local church, and we are your local churchman.
0:43
[SPEAKER_05]: My name is Josh, and I'm here as always with the captain, Jack Barry, Jack.
0:48
[SPEAKER_05]: My friend, it is good to be with you.
0:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Both, I heard from you, both of us had the pleasure this Lord's Day.
0:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes.
0:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Ed ministering the Lord's supper to our people.
1:01
[SPEAKER_05]: That's pretty cool.
1:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, dude.
1:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I like it.
1:08
[SPEAKER_03]: We were united in the same effort and get a spiritual nourishment to our people.
1:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
1:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
1:15
[SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome.
1:17
[SPEAKER_05]: That's one of my favorite things to do for course.
1:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Jack, what's going on, man?
1:23
[SPEAKER_05]: It's good to see you.
1:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Good to see you.
1:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, glad to be recording, glad to be working, glad to be busy, cold snap finally hit.
1:30
[SPEAKER_05]: We finally feel like we're in January, at least up here in C-Drow.
1:33
[SPEAKER_05]: We had about three weeks of it being like mid 50s to low 60s and then last couple of days.
1:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's say, okay, oh yeah.
1:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
1:42
[SPEAKER_05]: We're in January.
1:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this last, this last week is pretty cold down here.
1:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, come on, too.
1:47
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, yeah, but yeah, but no, it's good stuff.
1:51
[SPEAKER_05]: It's good stuff.
1:52
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot to a lot to be thankful for.
1:54
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of good things happen.
1:55
[SPEAKER_05]: And quick announcement people before we move on.
1:59
[SPEAKER_05]: to the instant grants.
2:01
[SPEAKER_05]: We got a special that's running right now.
2:04
[SPEAKER_05]: As of the release of this episode, if you head on over to our Patreon and I'll remind you again at the end of this episode, but if you head over to our Patreon right now, we're running a special to where you can get the first
2:19
[SPEAKER_05]: a month half off.
2:22
[SPEAKER_05]: First month of our Patreon half off.
2:26
[SPEAKER_05]: The code to do so is PODLUCK, PODLUCK, LUCK, PODLUCK, use the promo code PODLUCK over on our Patreon right now to get half off your first month.
2:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Now here's the thing.
2:40
[SPEAKER_05]: full price month is five bucks.
2:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
2:43
[SPEAKER_05]: So people.
2:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, so half of you're too fatty.
2:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Too fat.
2:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Fatty.
2:48
[SPEAKER_06]: Dude.
2:49
[SPEAKER_05]: For, I mean, it's $2.50 for all four episodes brought to you early plus two four six eight bonus episodes.
3:00
[SPEAKER_05]: given to you, plus all the myriad of other things that we post on the Patreon, you're getting all of that for $2.50, $2.50, if you use the promo code pod luck, it will be running through the end of January as a special offer to our listeners that maybe maybe some of y'all, you been listening, you like the reformatory, you haven't had, you haven't made your way over to
3:27
[SPEAKER_05]: right you haven't made your way over there to the members only and uh we want to make that trip as easy as possible so for the rest of the month of January use the promo code pod luck sign up for our patreon and get your first month half off.
3:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Jack, it's a steal above steals.
3:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we're losing money on the deal.
3:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's be honest, right?
3:49
[SPEAKER_05]: How did this cut?
3:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Did Patreon give us a cut?
3:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's given us a cut?
3:52
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm just I'm just I'm just I just want more people into the full man.
3:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to get as easy for people as I can and 50% I would have gone more, but 50% was all the options that it gave me at that at the moment.
4:05
[SPEAKER_05]: So here we go.
4:06
[SPEAKER_05]: We're just we just want people in man.
4:08
[SPEAKER_05]: The Patreon's where it's at but anyway
4:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Long time listeners, um, think about it.
4:12
[SPEAKER_05]: Head on over there to pay for your on catch first month half off.
4:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Use the code pod luck.
4:15
[SPEAKER_05]: We really, really appreciate that.
4:17
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, Jack on to everyone's favorite segment of the pod luck, or excuse me, of the podcast.
4:25
[SPEAKER_05]: And that is the don't forget to eat your instant grams.
4:29
[SPEAKER_07]: And know the time you've all been waiting for.
4:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Don't harm a dairy park as presents.
4:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
4:36
[SPEAKER_07]: With your host, Josh Loftus, on Jack Mary.
4:39
[SPEAKER_07]: And remember kids, it's not heresy if you'll believe it hard enough.
4:45
[SPEAKER_05]: This is, don't forget to eat your Instagrams and remember kids.
4:48
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not heresy.
4:49
[SPEAKER_05]: If you believe it hard enough, that is how it works.
4:51
[SPEAKER_05]: And Jack, that very well may be how this first group of individuals think that it works.
4:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Because they have had a special message from the Lord.
5:03
[SPEAKER_05]: The Lord has come down from heaven.
5:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, boy.
5:06
[SPEAKER_05]: And given them a special revelation,
5:15
[SPEAKER_05]: right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: God told us to start a Christian nightclub in Los Angeles.
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the best place to meet friends, make community and just vibe with other believers in LA.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Our next event is on New Year's Eve okay December 31st at APM and we're doing it dress up fancy style and we want to see you there to turn up in the New Year with us.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Sign up in the link in the description.
5:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, aren't you stoked about this?
5:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, I'm not.
5:42
[SPEAKER_05]: God, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
6:07
[SPEAKER_05]: There's one drink and that's it, there's no one drink, there's water, one drink and then we'll bring it in the fresca and it's just like it's like Toby Matt on the loop.
6:20
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm describing hell is what I'm describing.
6:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't think of anything I would want to go to less than a Christian.
6:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean a nightclub across the board but I mean I'm not, you know, I don't want to go to one of those either.
6:35
[SPEAKER_05]: But even much less, a Christian nightclub.
6:38
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess.
6:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't get this.
6:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Look, I'm all for redeeming the culture, right?
6:45
[SPEAKER_05]: And taking things that are in the culture and redeeming them.
6:48
[SPEAKER_05]: that has its limits.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And for me, I think I might have found it.
6:52
[SPEAKER_05]: I might have found it, or it might have been the nightclubs scene, because at no point, at no point, have seen a nightclubs scene on TV, or YouTube, or walked past one as I'm walking through Seattle and thought to myself, I wish we could do this for the Lord.
7:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I wish there was a Christian version of this thing.
7:15
[SPEAKER_05]: That would be so nice if you never once never once have I thought that.
7:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Jack.
7:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, and as as you know, whenever you do any amount of preaching There's always there's an element of having to, you know, be on your feet.
7:28
[SPEAKER_05]: You're right.
7:28
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
7:29
[SPEAKER_05]: You got to be quick on your feet.
7:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Quick on your toes.
7:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Always be alert.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Keep your head on a swivel, especially in today's day and age
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[SPEAKER_05]: And this pastor gets gets that up very up-close and personal.
7:41
[SPEAKER_05]: And the best part about this is not the thing itself, but it is...
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's a noise that happens.
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[SPEAKER_05]: When this individual finally kind of gets stopped from his...
7:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what he's trying to do here.
7:57
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll play it for you.
8:00
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'll tell you what is my favorite part of this video.
8:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow, y'all clap y'all hands and give God a break, okay, for the towel, dude, he just want to give me a hug, come on.
8:23
[SPEAKER_05]: So this pastor, I don't know who he is, but he's up there doing his thing, right?
8:28
[SPEAKER_05]: Dressed in some sort of like school uniform, now that I'm actually looking at this video, he's in like a card, he's in like a letterment, you know, there's a lower letterman's jacket, like 1,850's.
8:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
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[SPEAKER_05]: When they ranked against, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Letterman's card begins.
8:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_05]: That's what he's wearing.
8:41
[SPEAKER_05]: But for this, you know, this, this kid jumps up on stage.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And obviously trying to, you know, trying to make a moment for himself.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And the noise that you hear, I can't describe it any, it was a yelp.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It was like, yeah, kicked a puppy.
8:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Because he rushes, he rushes, and again, like watch on YouTube.
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[SPEAKER_05]: This is so much better on YouTube.
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[SPEAKER_05]: He rushes this past, or he tries to wrap him up.
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[SPEAKER_05]: The pastor does a good job of dodging it.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And then the security shows up.
9:09
[SPEAKER_05]: And absolutely, like, I think, let's watch it again.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, man, a god.
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you.
9:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Roman reigns like through the road.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Goldberg.
9:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Goldberg, right?
9:21
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesburg right there.
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[SPEAKER_04]: The noise that he makes.
9:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch out, watch
9:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Ministries weird man.
9:55
[SPEAKER_05]: You never know what's going to happen.
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[SPEAKER_05]: You never know who's going to come through the doors on any given Sunday.
10:01
[SPEAKER_05]: You always have to be ready.
10:03
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
10:03
[SPEAKER_05]: And that ladies and gentlemen.
10:06
[SPEAKER_05]: This our segue into our topic today.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be honest.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I Part of me did not want to talk about this because.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I'm frustrated at the whole thing.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It's a frustrating thing, and I think it's just, it's idiotity, it's stupidity on the greatest level that is, I think is imaginable.
10:30
[SPEAKER_05]: But over the weekend, there was a protest that happened at a city's church in Minnesota.
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[SPEAKER_05]: in which some protesters that were I believe they're protesting ice and you know the deportation of illegals from our country.
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[SPEAKER_05]: They were protesting that and they decided not to be content with taking their protests on the street or in front of the courthouse.
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[SPEAKER_05]: They decided to enter a church on the Lord's Day.
11:04
[SPEAKER_05]: during worship.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Now to my knowledge the reason that they chose this is because one of the one of the pastors on staff works for ice.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I believe that is what I can ask.
11:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what I can explain as well, too.
11:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
11:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
11:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Whether or not that's true.
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[SPEAKER_05]: doesn't matter in my opinion.
11:28
[SPEAKER_05]: So we have videos have surfaced pictures have surfaced of this anti ice protesting group entering into the sanctuary of this local church in the middle of their service.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I believe it was an SBC church.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It is what I read and disrupted the service.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And people
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[SPEAKER_05]: there's pictures online of, you know, kids crying and being very disturbed because of the language that was being used against these people and the violent ways that they were, that they were, you know, getting in people's faces.
12:10
[SPEAKER_05]: That's very, very frustrating.
12:12
[SPEAKER_05]: And among, among the protesters,
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[SPEAKER_05]: doing his doneness to stay relevant.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Jack, we have Don Lennon.
12:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Don Lennon.
12:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I haven't thought of Don Lennon.
12:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my gosh, since the beginning of COVID and I think he knows that and that's why he's he's he's pulling this done.
12:34
[SPEAKER_05]: So I have a little a little video.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Don Don Lennon is doing his and I use for our audio only listeners.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I use air quotes here.
12:41
[SPEAKER_05]: He was doing his
12:44
[SPEAKER_05]: in which he was with this group entering into the church and he had the bright idea of giving some airtime to one of the pastors, which I think did Don Lemon No favors.
12:59
[SPEAKER_05]: I actually have that video here.
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[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to play this where you can hear the protesting happening in the background.
13:04
[SPEAKER_05]: You see the pastor very, very distracted as obviously this huge group comes into his church and
13:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Don Lemon of all kinds of shows a microphone in front of this face, right?
13:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Not the best, you know, don Lemon doing his darn just to get a sound bite and make it political.
13:21
[SPEAKER_05]: And I got it.
13:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, I got to give Kudos to this pastor.
13:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, I don't know this church.
13:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know this pastor.
13:26
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know the health of the church.
13:28
[SPEAKER_05]: But this whole thing is out of bounds.
13:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Tire things out of bounds.
13:33
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_05]: complete idiosity.
13:36
[SPEAKER_05]: And at the time of this recording, I have heard, I do not know if it is confirmed.
13:40
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll know more obviously when this release is on Thursday that Don let that a warrant has been put out for Don Lemon's arrest, which I hope happens because he violated.
13:51
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe it's the face act, which is at which was enacted to combat the crew
13:58
[SPEAKER_05]: If this happens, this is so bizarre, this is so bizarre, let me describe what happens here.
14:05
[SPEAKER_05]: If he gets arrested, you know, with in line with the face act, you have a black man,
14:19
[SPEAKER_05]: giving a rested under the law that was put in place to combat the KKK on Martin Luther King day.
14:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
14:29
[SPEAKER_05]: It's so bizarre, dude.
14:31
[SPEAKER_05]: This cannot make this crap.
14:33
[SPEAKER_05]: This timeline isn't safe.
14:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
14:35
[SPEAKER_05]: But here's the thing.
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[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to play this video.
14:38
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I know Jack has some thoughts on it.
14:41
[SPEAKER_05]: that i'll let him i'll let him get into and uh... uh... well we'll we'll take of that this is don lemon people engaging in some hard hitting journalism with one of the pastors of this uh... city church
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think of it?
14:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is unacceptable, it's shameful.
14:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.
15:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are folks who will say, I have to take care of my flock.
15:08
[SPEAKER_02]: If we listen, we live in it.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a constitution that first amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest.
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to worship because that's the hope of these cities, that's the hope of the world Jesus Christ.
15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very respectful.
15:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Please don't push me down.
15:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here.
15:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to worship Jesus.
15:24
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:32
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:36
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we're here.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to take care of my church, my family.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So I asked, is you actually, would also leave this room?
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't want us to be in labor.
15:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm here to worship you.
15:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's give you the worship.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm always worshiped.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a Christian.
15:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to worship you.
15:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to worship you.
15:49
[SPEAKER_02]: OK.
15:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
15:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, applause to this pastor.
15:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
15:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, I don't know him.
15:59
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know his church.
16:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not making any comments on whether the health of this church or not.
16:05
[SPEAKER_05]: But in this moment,
16:07
[SPEAKER_05]: My hat goes off to this guy, yeah, who obviously his main concern in that moment, he says it.
16:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, his flock, his people, he has to go care for them.
16:18
[SPEAKER_05]: You can tell he is so agitated and frustrated and worried.
16:23
[SPEAKER_05]: for the people that God has placed under his care that he tries to get out of the interview halfway through Don Lemme.
16:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
16:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Grabbs his arm.
16:31
[SPEAKER_05]: You see him, grab his arm and he pulls him back in and then he accuses this guy of of pushing him, of pushing him, right?
16:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, there's so much about this that really, really, I like, it's stuff like this that
16:53
[SPEAKER_05]: Like this, this causes such a visceral reaction in me as a pastor, and I start putting like, I start, you know, obviously you start putting it into your own circumstances, your own shoes, right?
17:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, what would happen if this group did this at Redeemer?
17:13
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
17:14
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think I think we're going to kind of get into some of those one.
17:17
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think they'd make it in the door.
17:23
[SPEAKER_05]: I would pray that I would have as much composure and graces this pastor did, because I don't know if I would, this was a very patient and graces response that he gave, I think it was a very good one and him not taking the bait that kept, he kept trying to fish, he kept trying to fish, he kept trying to throw the bait, and this guy kept bringing it back saying,
17:52
[SPEAKER_05]: We're on here to talk politics.
17:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not here to talk the first amendment with you.
17:56
[SPEAKER_05]: We're here to worship.
17:58
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're here to do and he would not take the bait.
18:02
[SPEAKER_05]: He would not take the the the the Yeah, the bait to to you know come into a conversation that Donliman obviously wanted him to to come into hats off to this pastor
18:17
[SPEAKER_05]: and well done, well done and extremely frustrating and anger-inducing situation for me personally, just watching that.
18:30
[SPEAKER_05]: That's that's...
18:33
[SPEAKER_05]: That's really frustrating.
18:34
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I'm going to throw it over to you, Jack, and let you say your piece with that because if I continue, we'll get into podlock territory.
18:42
[SPEAKER_05]: And we don't want to, we want to be careful.
18:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Was, as, yeah, I think I can, I think I was telling Josh about this about where I would come at this on a couple different levels.
18:52
[SPEAKER_03]: One part of it is I would come at this from the security standpoint being a volunteer on our security team at my local church.
19:00
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah.
19:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm this kind of I don't know if they have a security team at this local church, but I think now is the time to start one.
19:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, oh, I'm sure they'll engage in Sunday morning worship much differently now.
19:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think I think the the reason why this group came here to I don't think that fit.
19:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So to have a member of a church staff who's also a political appointee or somebody who works for the federal government to come there to just protest a church because of that person on the staff, yeah, that's not a one for one.
19:40
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, that's not a one for one trade off right there, so if they have issues with that pastor, they should have addressed those issues in a different way.
19:54
[SPEAKER_03]: That would have been more appropriate.
19:56
[SPEAKER_03]: What's not appropriate is doing stunts like this.
20:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
20:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I could say this is a hundred times worse than I've had to deal with my entire
20:06
[SPEAKER_03]: span of volunteering as like church security.
20:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, the worst that I've had to deal with was a homeless guy snorting cocaine off a hymnle.
20:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Like that, I mean, here it gives thing.
20:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Unique.
20:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to the PNW.
20:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but this is, this is a next level of security concern.
20:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I've had guys, I've had homeless guys who were either mentally, mentally not stable or either on some sort of drug.
20:33
[SPEAKER_03]: sit in a few and try and interrupt the service and try and make, you know, make something and we've escorted them out and then you trespass them off the property.
20:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think one, it shows how important
20:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And for people to say that church security is going against any kind of biblical teaching is not true, like you're not you being you being part of a church security team is you making sure that you're caring for the welfare of the local flock.
21:08
[SPEAKER_03]: right you're not a vigilante you're not a militia member when you're part of a security team serving at a local church you're literally submitting to the authority of the elders and submitting to the authority of the local like law enforcement agencies that you'll have to call because you might call them one day.
21:27
[SPEAKER_03]: if that comes the terms.
21:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's part of it.
21:32
[SPEAKER_03]: The other part of it too is just how this is just one side of the coin where I think this is just one extreme where I think that it's it's one side of the coin that
21:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's helpful to our conversation.
21:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was talking to Josh about this.
21:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is one side of two perspectives on the same coin that is pretty much what we're dealing with right now.
21:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is very in your face, the left is side of the coin, very kind of open in your face.
22:06
[SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna go and into your church and make you account for stuff, sure.
22:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think where you can do that the best is talking to your local congressmen or senators or about to the officials in order to do that.
22:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but the other side too is that this is just as bad as if we were to enact Christian nationals policies in order to get non-believers in the church by some sort of tax break, which a lot of people have said about too.
22:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So what's going on here is just as bad if we were to do it in another way, maybe not so much in your face and radical in that sense.
22:52
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter.
22:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Like again, we have to be consistent, right?
22:56
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't matter who's doing the thing.
22:59
[SPEAKER_05]: If the thing is unbiblical, you call it out for being unbiblical, right?
23:03
[SPEAKER_05]: And whether it's people coming into a church and disrupting service,
23:10
[SPEAKER_05]: or you have individuals that are utilizing churches some sort of weapon or some sort of conduit to push a political narrative.
23:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, we're seeing the fruits in our culture right now of this over-emphasized, and this infactuation with politics instead of biblical Christianity, right?
23:30
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think,
23:32
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's no part of what happened at this church was biblical Christianity at all.
23:38
[SPEAKER_05]: That's just it was completely political driven, right?
23:41
[SPEAKER_05]: But we have to be very careful that we're being consistent.
23:44
[SPEAKER_05]: I agree with you across the board and that we identify correctly and call out when things are politically motivated versus biblically, right?
23:52
[SPEAKER_05]: And just because you say something is biblically motivated,
23:58
[SPEAKER_05]: So although, although the situations might be different, you know, the root cause that we've got here is the same and it's this it it's a
24:09
[SPEAKER_05]: it's a misunderstanding of the issues that we have here in America and you're applying a band aid to it when it needs a scalpel.
24:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
24:18
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what the word of God is.
24:20
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what the gospel is.
24:21
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a scalpel, right?
24:23
[SPEAKER_05]: It cuts out what needs to be cut out, it cuts out the infection so that there might be life.
24:30
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what the word of God does.
24:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And whether you are, you know, on the side of, you know, these protesters or on the side of, you know, the, the, the Christian nationalism thing trying to, you know, promote their things.
24:46
[SPEAKER_05]: It both are a result of individuals placing the culture over the Bible and viewing the Bible through the lens of the cultural moment.
24:56
[SPEAKER_05]: and we can't do that.
24:59
[SPEAKER_05]: I was just having a conversation with one of our young folks about some some issues that they're going through and just trying to figure out how to navigate some things with friends.
25:09
[SPEAKER_05]: We've talked about this in the podcast before.
25:10
[SPEAKER_05]: The young folks today are dealing with things that I never had to deal with when I was their age.
25:17
[SPEAKER_05]: And
25:18
[SPEAKER_05]: You remove a trick, not a trick, a tactic, a strategy that I employ with them and it's like, okay, let's remove ourselves from this particular moment because it's very prevalent in our culture and let's apply these same details to a different sin, right?
25:39
[SPEAKER_05]: So obviously there's things that come up with how do I act with my friends that are part of LGBTQ, how do I
25:47
[SPEAKER_05]: with friends who identify this way.
25:50
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, okay, okay, look, let's just, it's hard to think of, you know, it's hard to think clearly often in those things because of how prevalent it is in the culture and how it muddies the waters.
26:03
[SPEAKER_05]: So let's remove ourselves from that particular instance and let's apply the same premise to a different sin.
26:10
[SPEAKER_05]: If we agree that, you know,
26:13
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you know, two men marrying each other is a sin, but we're not sure how to navigate that Biblically because, well, okay, let's just remove it from that, that example is put it into something else.
26:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Right?
26:25
[SPEAKER_05]: What if a man cheated on his wife?
26:28
[SPEAKER_05]: How are we going to interact with that?
26:30
[SPEAKER_05]: What if a man is, you know, you know, um, um, up using a child?
26:36
[SPEAKER_05]: How are we going to interact with that?
26:38
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the same rules, all of a sudden, the water gets real clear.
26:41
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, oh, well, obviously we do this.
26:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah, yeah, and it doesn't have to do with the thing.
26:46
[SPEAKER_05]: It has to do with whether or not scripture says it's right or wrong, right?
26:49
[SPEAKER_05]: So the only reason I'm saying that is because it's important to I think to call out what needs to be called out and that our culture is biblically illiterate.
27:02
[SPEAKER_05]: and it's crept into the church.
27:04
[SPEAKER_05]: And we deal with this also.
27:06
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why videos like this.
27:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, I don't know this guy, I don't know this church, but videos like this where he's not taken the bait and he's saying, no, we're here to worship.
27:16
[SPEAKER_05]: What you are doing is completely inappropriate.
27:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not gonna engage.
27:20
[SPEAKER_05]: No one is going to engage with you on this.
27:24
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not what today is for.
27:26
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he made lemon look like a fool.
27:29
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm proud of this guy for doing it.
27:31
[SPEAKER_05]: he also looks like a wrestler which I don't know like I did I have a you know being being one myself and being a coach I've got a good like sense of like I've got a good radar for guys that I think were in like sports now this guy looks like one to me I mean the call of Larry here is always a dead giveaway I don't see it on him but I don't know he's just got these got the vibe of a wrestler which I did
27:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think the other problem too.
27:58
[SPEAKER_03]: It goes back into, you know, you're dealing with a clear, so you're dealing with something too that has happened in the ancient church.
28:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So in the ancient church,
28:13
[SPEAKER_03]: city officials in certain towns and cities, metropolitan areas that were parts of a local church.
28:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
28:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is kind of, so one of those being you had a gosh, I'm trying to remember his name.
28:30
[SPEAKER_03]: It is in the epistles.
28:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember that too because Paul talks about him, but he was a, I
28:42
[SPEAKER_03]: what you don't have, interestingly enough, is the people of that, the citizens of that town going to his local house church and dragging him out and telling him to be a better public servant or something like that.
29:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that that's not the, to go inside a church into protest is not the place that you protest against a certain thing that you absolutely do not agree with in this case, being ISIS way in which they're deporting people and interacting people, the way that you do that is through your local elected officials in order to combat a policy issue.
29:26
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't do that.
29:28
[SPEAKER_03]: through going to this guy's place, his church, and then saying, well, you need to account for this guy in your church.
29:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, how do you not know that they might be doing that already?
29:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Or they might be talking to him.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this goes back into the autonomy of the local church again, to where people are trying to, in one way or the other, they're trying to make it in a way in
29:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're just, they're not calling it Christian nationalism, but they are wanting the state to be involved and policing a church, which that's not the job of the state.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think anybody and our Baptist background goes back to say the job of the state is not to police churches or to do that.
30:21
[SPEAKER_03]: It's to institute and follow the laws, right, up on the land.
30:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
30:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, I think that's the problem.
30:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, they don't want to, the protesters don't want to admit this, but they are in, they are, I feel like they are participating in a type of
30:41
[SPEAKER_03]: that they wouldn't say that they're a part of, but they want the state to go against this church in some form of fashion.
30:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, yeah, and I mean, that bare minimum public opinion.
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
30:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just don't understand how you can be so focused on the law.
31:02
[SPEAKER_03]: and yet go after people who are trying to be law-biting citizens who are just trying to show up to worship and together with their local church members and their church, their churchmen.
31:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't, I don't understand why that is a good target for you, it's not about the law.
31:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, I don't want to, I don't want to just get all, you know, politically, you know, frustrated here.
31:29
[SPEAKER_05]: they've never cared about the law.
31:31
[SPEAKER_05]: They'll use the law when it's convenient and they'll go against it when it's not.
31:36
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not about, it's not about upkeeping a lot.
31:41
[SPEAKER_05]: It's about upkeeping an agenda, an agenda that's fueled by ultimately, I believe, a hate for Christ and scripture.
31:48
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like ultimately that is what we're dealing with here is you have individuals that hate Jesus that don't want anything to do with him.
31:59
[SPEAKER_05]: So prime churches become prime targets for that.
32:03
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's going to I believe escalate.
32:07
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... as our culture moves further and further away from scripture and i think churches need to start taking a taking a real close look at how are we going to respond if and when this comes to our doors and what should our responsibility be when you know someone's at the door trying trying to get in right i think that's where um...
32:30
[SPEAKER_05]: churches need to really highly consider security training as part of the just the everyday the everyday practice on the lords day right i think you need to take that really seriously because you never know the crazy person that's going to come in who's jacked up on NSNBC and you know PCP and want to you know just go to town on some church members
32:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was just, it's just going to, oh, and by the way, his name was Arrestus.
33:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I just googled it for you.
33:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
33:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
33:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Arrestus.
33:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, that's the thing, too, is like, if you have a problem with people who are in a local church who are elected officials or who are a point political pointies.
33:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Right your claimer's men.
33:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:17
[SPEAKER_03]: You go through the right channels.
33:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't go to a local church and and protest it thinking that that's the way to hold people accountable.
33:25
[SPEAKER_03]: because you have, because one way or the other, like you're trying to be a presby, like that mob was trying to be a presbyteria at that point in time.
33:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's not the way that church is function of what Josh and I believe, like we believe that that local church knows what's best for its people and to assume that maybe those pastors aren't having conversations with that other pastor who is in ice is ignorant because I'm sure they're having conversations.
33:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure there's no ignorance to what's going on and
34:00
[SPEAKER_03]: and they're just turning a blind eye and not talking about that stuff on staff.
34:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I think the the biggest thing is to trust the local church and let the local church do what it needs to do.
34:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Instead of you trying to take over and to try and be their Presbyterie and try and rain them in, that's not going to help anybody.
34:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think Christians need to understand
34:25
[SPEAKER_05]: that this world is led by their passions, right?
34:30
[SPEAKER_05]: So whatever the culture, the cultural moment demands that you be passionate about, that's what just, that's what the world's gonna be passionate about, right?
34:40
[SPEAKER_05]: and, you know, by and large in America, the sights really haven't fallen on the church a whole lot.
34:49
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that that could change.
34:52
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think we might be seeing the beginnings of that changing.
34:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, right?
34:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, I don't know.
34:57
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know the ins and outs of the political thing with ice.
35:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what's going on there.
35:01
[SPEAKER_05]: I frankly, I'm too busy to care and maybe
35:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but like I have I have what I need to focus on in in front of me here, right?
35:14
[SPEAKER_05]: If it someone came in into the same thing or a demon, I was like, what's your opinion?
35:17
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, I don't know.
35:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't care.
35:20
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm Tommy Lee Jones, like, I mean, the fugitive, like I didn't kill my wife.
35:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I don't care.
35:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I just have a job to do, dude.
35:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I, that's not my job, right?
35:30
[SPEAKER_05]: I am called to take care of the sheet like this pastor said.
35:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, but I think I think what Christians need to realize.
35:36
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think what we need to understand is why we need to be saturated in the Word of God, both in our Lord's days and personally, is we are not called to be led by our passions.
35:47
[SPEAKER_05]: What happened Sunday was an act of passion.
35:52
[SPEAKER_05]: and sin.
35:53
[SPEAKER_05]: People being led by what they, and it wasn't peaceful either.
35:58
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
36:13
[SPEAKER_05]: it's not no it's not i mean i think i think there is a good way to protest like i'm not a big protest guy i've never joined a protest i don't really foresee myself ever doing that it would be a very particular thing but i support people's rights protests and it's you know it's an american thing go for it but do it peacefully and don't infringe on other people's rights while you do it
36:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
36:33
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's, I see stuff like this and, you know, it makes me, you know, I, it's a sinfully angry because I just want to throw it back.
36:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be like, okay, you're going to come in here and disrupt us.
36:46
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to scare our children.
36:47
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to make them cry.
36:48
[SPEAKER_05]: You're going to make our mom and dad's feel like, you know, they're unsafe.
36:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you're going to get, you know, the, the five finger hand of fellowship here.
36:58
[SPEAKER_05]: And, and, and we'll see how
37:02
[SPEAKER_05]: probably not the best response, right?
37:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
37:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it is.
37:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll I'll I'll tell you if there's something I won't tell you there was other footage from other protesters that were ignorant that were that were that were absolutely that were mock that were very mock I mean there was one guy that I did see where he was he was
37:24
[SPEAKER_05]: It was F words and F bombs in front of like the kids and the women.
37:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw Duke and then he And then he went up to other other people and said look at you you're all entitled and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then I Topsy like this isn't how Jesus would it's like you you worship a guy in a suit and that's like
37:43
[SPEAKER_03]: you have no context.
37:46
[SPEAKER_03]: You have no business to tell us at the end to put your moral opinion upon a church that you have no clue what's going on in.
37:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I thought that was fair.
37:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Like that.
37:58
[SPEAKER_03]: That didn't see that video.
38:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I did see that.
38:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Because to go inside a place of worship and to say that to people, that's just ridiculous.
38:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's no excuse.
38:11
[SPEAKER_05]: So again, like they hate Jesus, right?
38:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's get out of the mud and out of the fog.
38:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's get up to 30,000 feet where we can see and breathe clearly.
38:20
[SPEAKER_05]: They hate Jesus.
38:22
[SPEAKER_05]: So they're going to be
38:27
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't even need an excuse.
38:30
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just, it's just what happens, right?
38:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And the church has been at the forefront of that, right?
38:40
[SPEAKER_05]: So churches just need to be ready.
38:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I think on a practical level, beef up your security, have those discussions, maybe involve your local law enforcement if you're on good terms with them, get some training for some of your guys on conflict resolution, de-escalation, things like that.
38:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, have somebody in the back, keep it an eye on things and yeah, kudos, kudos to this pastor, I guess that's all I've got to say on it.
39:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the last thing to say, too, is just we need a we need a I mean this is going to be the tension point with a lot of churches, right?
39:14
[SPEAKER_03]: There needs to be a way in which you are because a lot of people are going to take this moment and say, who's my neighbor?
39:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure, is it is it the protester who's standing in the middle of my church like making a scene or is it the police officer that and the law enforcement and the ice agents that are coming in and do stuff will both of them are so you need to you need to radically show Mercy and grace to both those people in that sense even though
39:44
[SPEAKER_03]: you you might be this has happened to me before people like if you want to if you want a front row seat and how you give mercy and grace to people who you think are you know transgressing against you like boy if I got a case study for you.
40:00
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you find yourself in the case where, you know, you're just trying to live your life and ice throws up a roadblock somewhere and you got to navigate around it.
40:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you got to navigate and around it with some sort of mercy and grace to those people, but also to certain immigrants that are in your neighborhood.
40:21
[SPEAKER_03]: We just had this on our Lord's Day, too, to where we were both praying for our Afghan brothers and sisters who were here.
40:29
[SPEAKER_03]: who might be deported back to Afghanistan, who would absolutely face death if if we if the government sent them back and deported them back to Afghanistan.
40:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have to pray for them if the government decides to deport them, but we also have to pray for the governmental authorities in order to pray for them as well too.
40:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not just I have to pray for this person and that's it.
40:55
[SPEAKER_03]: like this isn't a this isn't a picker choose this is no you have to dispense mercy and grace to everybody along the way and yeah that sounds crazy but you know what Jesus told us to do that so yeah yeah and yeah and I live I live in a land like to
41:15
[SPEAKER_05]: To accompany that and to balance that out, like I live in a land that has rules, and I'm going to follow those rules of the land, right, and that's I don't have an option not to do that because that in that is also showing a good witness for Christ is that you are honoring the rules of the land render to Caesar what is Caesar while you're there.
41:33
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm able to do both of those things and still be a Christian.
41:37
[SPEAKER_05]: right but once you start coming into my church yeah and you're frightening my kids and you're scaring the moms we have we have a different issue yeah like that's i'm not it's not it's going to change because yes i i
41:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
41:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
41:55
[SPEAKER_03]: That'd be because so for one last for one last thought, too.
41:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So we meet in a public school.
42:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So it would be crazy if this happened because I don't know what the policy would be if that happened at the school that we meet at because I'm sure the protesters would say something along the lines of what we have the right to be here because it's a public place and stuff like that because we have people going through there's a trail and stuff
42:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that would be an interesting situation for the security team.
42:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I might have to email my pastors to see What's our protocol if this happens it are in our city here.
42:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I do think it's wise for churches to be ready and to at least have these discussions because yeah It's possible that it could this could keep happening more and more so yeah dumb dumb stuff over over the weekend, but
42:51
[SPEAKER_05]: kudos to this pastor and the soul, yeah, the soul of situations just just very unfortunate and frustrating.
42:59
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, but Jack, my friend, Jesus is still king and our people still gather no matter what the situation
43:08
[SPEAKER_05]: in the cathedrals or the catacombs and the gospel will never go away and as much as done lemon which is it would it won't and hopefully may it'll be going away here soon for a very long time.
43:23
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's not very easy.
43:24
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not very nice.
43:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Jack, would you please get us out of here, my friend?
43:28
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