Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / What It Really Takes to Build a Factory Overlander — with Dave Harriton

Transcript

What It Really Takes to Build a Factory Overlander — with Dave Harriton · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overlain Journal podcast. I'm your host,
0:03
Speaker 1: Matt Scott. I'm here with my co host Scott Brady. Hey, guys, Yeah,
0:06
Speaker 1: we're stoked here to have Dave Hareton from AAV American
0:09
Speaker 1: Exhibition vehicles with us today. We're going to be talking
0:13
Speaker 1: about basically everything this dude has learned about what it
0:16
Speaker 1: takes to build a factory Overlander. There's so many things
0:20
Speaker 1: that you're not considering. We were just talking about transfer
0:23
Speaker 1: case chain integrity on specific lift sizes and wheel sizes
0:29
Speaker 1: for models. There's going to be a lot of information
0:31
Speaker 1: in this podcast. We really hope that you take it
0:34
Speaker 1: to heart because there's a lot of really good information
0:37
Speaker 1: here that I don't think anybody else in the world has.
0:40
Speaker 2: And a special thanks to Warner, home of the Guineas
0:44
Speaker 2: Grenadier and the Mercedes Benz Van Center. Warner, whether you're
0:49
Speaker 2: traveling through Canning Country in your sprinter or across continence
0:53
Speaker 2: in your Grenadier, Warner has become a trusted stoff for
0:57
Speaker 2: serious overlanderstionally serviced my quartermaster at Warner and have seen
1:03
Speaker 2: the work they do to their successful Rebel rally competition grenadiers.
1:09
Speaker 2: Matt Scott has experienced Warner too, helping his father in
1:12
Speaker 2: law by a Grenadier from the dealership a few months ago.
1:17
Speaker 2: Warner has become known for supporting travelers in both grenadiers
1:21
Speaker 2: and sprinters, whether it's outfitting, maintenance or helping with complex
1:26
Speaker 2: expedition buildings. I have seen their team contribute to the
1:30
Speaker 2: community through sponsoring events, rebel rally teams, vehicle training, and
1:35
Speaker 2: remote technical support. It also helps that Tony Warner is
1:39
Speaker 2: an Overlander himself, so he is committed to fitting high
1:43
Speaker 2: quality components and helping fellow travelers. As a thank you
1:47
Speaker 2: for the podcast listeners, they are offering five hundred dollars
1:51
Speaker 2: off a new or used INEOS or sprinter, or ten
1:55
Speaker 2: percent off arts and service up to five hundred bucks.
1:59
Speaker 2: Just tell them you heard about it on the Overland
2:01
Speaker 2: Journal podcast. Thanks again, Tony and the Warner team for
2:05
Speaker 2: your support of this week's podcast. Yeah, you're definitely that guy, Dave.
2:09
Speaker 2: The fact that you've worked with so many different manufacturers,
2:12
Speaker 2: so you've worked closely with GEP, you work closely with RAM,
2:15
Speaker 2: you work closely with GM, which includes GMC and Chevrolet models.
2:21
Speaker 2: So you've worked with these OEM engineers and You've probably
2:23
Speaker 2: learned a lot along the way of what you need
2:26
Speaker 2: to be paying attention to on these things, and then
2:29
Speaker 2: you can apply those that are listening can apply those
2:31
Speaker 2: same thoughts to their own modifications. If you're doing something
2:34
Speaker 2: aftermarket to your car, think about some of these things
2:37
Speaker 2: that Dave's going to talk about so that you can
2:39
Speaker 2: keep it within the best possible range of performance and reliability.
2:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, so where do we start. There's so much going
2:50
Speaker 1: on here.
2:50
Speaker 3: Man, Yeah, and it's true. I'm probably one of the
2:54
Speaker 3: very unique people in the world that have taken both
2:57
Speaker 3: the aftermarcuts side and the OEM side and combine them
3:00
Speaker 3: because they both have their unique challenges and goals. And
3:04
Speaker 3: then here I am trying to combine the two, which
3:07
Speaker 3: is challenging, very challenging.
3:09
Speaker 2: Maybe we start with that, though. You were just talking
3:11
Speaker 2: a few minutes ago about with the aftermarket your goals
3:14
Speaker 2: are different than they are when you're working with an OEM,
3:17
Speaker 2: So maybe help people frame that a little bit when
3:19
Speaker 2: they're buying an aftermarket component as opposed to a turnkey truck.
3:23
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure, So it's almost like the logic tree is different.
3:27
Speaker 3: If you're sitting there with your aftermarket hat on. You
3:29
Speaker 3: have a certain number of tools in your quiver, and
3:32
Speaker 3: you're looking at your goal might be Okay, we need
3:34
Speaker 3: a lift kit for thirty five inch tires on X vehicle,
3:37
Speaker 3: and the number one goal is okay, we're going to
3:40
Speaker 3: fifth tire on there. We need full steering clarence and
3:43
Speaker 3: we need full suspension travel. And then you're weighing like, okay,
3:46
Speaker 3: it's got to be the market will only handle list
3:48
Speaker 3: price point, Which parts can we do? Which parts? How's
3:51
Speaker 3: everyone else doing it? Let's baseline that now, okay, Now
3:54
Speaker 3: that turns out that's probably not the right way. That's
3:57
Speaker 3: because it costs so much more to do it the
3:59
Speaker 3: right way. Here's what we could do. Here's how we
4:02
Speaker 3: can do it the right way and still be cost effective.
4:04
Speaker 3: It's just a different set of goals when you look
4:06
Speaker 3: at it with the OEM hat on. The nice thing
4:09
Speaker 3: is the volume is there that you can generally you
4:11
Speaker 3: can always do it the right way, but you're looking
4:14
Speaker 3: at it from a different set of goals. So now
4:17
Speaker 3: you're taking into effect cooling, the actual cooling that the
4:20
Speaker 3: aftermarket doesn't have the data, and what the cooling package
4:23
Speaker 3: should be doing modal, Right, are those bumpers lighting up
4:27
Speaker 3: when you're because of the suspension on a washboard. It's
4:31
Speaker 3: stuff that the aftermarket just doesn't have the information to
4:34
Speaker 3: even consider. Put a thirty five inch tire on this vehicle.
4:38
Speaker 3: When you're looking at from the OEM, it's a thirty
4:39
Speaker 3: five inches hire, but you're going all the way through that.
4:42
Speaker 3: Like you mentioned transfer case chains.
4:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, everything that you change, like every action has like
4:47
Speaker 1: a reaction down the line. You strengthen one thing and
4:49
Speaker 1: then it breaks the next thing.
4:50
Speaker 3: But even airflow, right, most people don't realize a lot
4:53
Speaker 3: of the cooling effectiveness comes from the vacuum generated under
4:56
Speaker 3: the car, and when you start lifting the car, putting
4:58
Speaker 3: thirty five inches tires, change skid plates, a lot of
5:01
Speaker 3: that stuff can change rapidly and you can make the
5:04
Speaker 3: cooling really ineffective. And then on the aftermark side, the
5:07
Speaker 3: customer might do all this stuff and be like this brand,
5:11
Speaker 3: I'll fill in the plank. This brand's cooling sucks.
5:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was.
5:14
Speaker 3: Fine, but and you did something that you didn't think
5:17
Speaker 3: had any possibility to affect that, but it turns out
5:21
Speaker 3: it really does.
5:22
Speaker 1: I had a we're obviously in my earth rummer, and
5:24
Speaker 1: I had one of those mesh grills because in my mind,
5:27
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is going to flow more. It
5:29
Speaker 1: should in theory, have more surface area. I had this
5:33
Speaker 1: chrome grill that I really hated. This truck was always
5:36
Speaker 1: having problems with overheating going up hills. I changed back
5:39
Speaker 1: to the factory grill. I took the spotlights off the front.
5:43
Speaker 1: I run like sixty five mile an hour of pills
5:45
Speaker 1: that I would be able to do forty five. Yeah,
5:47
Speaker 1: the only things that changed.
5:49
Speaker 3: So, you know, it's one of those things a lot
5:52
Speaker 3: of consumers we were just talking about the morning. There's
5:54
Speaker 3: pain points that consumers don't even know exist when they're
5:58
Speaker 3: changing stuff. For instance, are you ruining the vacuum under
6:02
Speaker 3: the car. That's something you don't consider when you're like
6:04
Speaker 3: putting a different rill on. Yeah, it's not really, it's
6:07
Speaker 3: how much suction you're getting through the radiator. And then
6:09
Speaker 3: when we're doing it on the OEM level, they literally
6:12
Speaker 3: give us like, Okay, you're going to have fifteen thousand
6:15
Speaker 3: square millimeters of open area on the grill, and if
6:18
Speaker 3: you put lights in the front, you have to subtract
6:20
Speaker 3: that out, and so you might have twenty thousand, but
6:24
Speaker 3: when you start putting lights on the front and they
6:25
Speaker 3: get down to like within a millimeters or two, you're
6:27
Speaker 3: not going.
6:28
Speaker 2: To pass sure.
6:29
Speaker 3: And then we're doing all the CFD, so we're studying. Okay,
6:32
Speaker 3: when you lift the vehicle when you're doing this, or
6:34
Speaker 3: even just changing the brake angle on the truck can
6:37
Speaker 3: have some pretty dramatic effects on the cooling. So it's
6:40
Speaker 3: really interesting, but most consumers don't understand that it's that sensitive.
6:46
Speaker 3: And also a lot of the trucks are pretty tolerant,
6:49
Speaker 3: so if you do start affecting the cooling, they just
6:51
Speaker 3: start backing the power out without you even knowing. Yeah,
6:53
Speaker 3: so again you think, oh, this fill in the blank truck,
6:56
Speaker 3: it doesn't have enough power. There's it's not just gearing,
6:59
Speaker 3: it's not just the tire. It's it can be.
7:01
Speaker 2: It's preserving itself.
7:02
Speaker 3: It can be preserving itself.
7:04
Speaker 2: It's smart these days too, you know.
7:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, they don't want to be paying for
7:08
Speaker 1: and your acal drop down.
7:09
Speaker 2: You're cool, So you're now you're hot and you're like,
7:11
Speaker 2: why isn't the AC working. You're cranking it up and
7:13
Speaker 2: it's not. And you also talked about corrosion. I think
7:17
Speaker 2: The other two topics maybe we touch on is corrosion
7:21
Speaker 2: and then ENVH. A lot of people go with these
7:23
Speaker 2: very expensive suspension systems. They can be five, six, seven,
7:27
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars and then a couple of years later
7:30
Speaker 2: it's a rattle trap and they're exhausted driving the car.
7:33
Speaker 2: It squeaks and it rattles. Let's talk a little bit
7:36
Speaker 2: about corrosion resistance and then ENVH.
7:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always what sounds good on paper to a
7:42
Speaker 3: consumer might not be very good. Yeah, sounds good on paper,
7:46
Speaker 3: whether it's some of the more complex suspensions, and then
7:50
Speaker 3: when it comes to reality and depending on where you
7:52
Speaker 3: live and corrosion and you know, what works on a
7:55
Speaker 3: race truck does not work on a street truck.
7:57
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that because I think that's the key point,
7:59
Speaker 2: is the difference between a race truck which is going
8:01
Speaker 2: to do one race.
8:02
Speaker 1: We were talking about this on our last podcast, like
8:05
Speaker 1: principles of overlanding intentional vehicle modification. People try to do
8:09
Speaker 1: too much with their trucks. They try and have a rockcroller,
8:12
Speaker 1: pre runner overland truck and they put time joints on
8:16
Speaker 1: it or rose joints, and they're like oh man, it's
8:19
Speaker 1: always in the shop. This sucks or this frame isn't
8:23
Speaker 1: the frame on XYZ truck sucks, but it rounded.
8:26
Speaker 2: Out or ovaled out a hole.
8:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you put a spherical barring.
8:31
Speaker 3: My rule of thumb is if the truck has a
8:33
Speaker 3: stock frame, it's not going to go fast typically just
8:38
Speaker 3: not for long. You know.
8:39
Speaker 2: That's the point.
8:40
Speaker 3: And there's some exceptions there, and there is like the
8:41
Speaker 3: Class three trucks that have been modified and do work.
8:44
Speaker 3: They're not from a marketing standpoint, You're not going to
8:47
Speaker 3: be out there doing what the trophy trucks or even closer.
8:51
Speaker 2: And these are professional drivers do so they're professional drivers.
8:54
Speaker 3: And half the challenge on like something like Class three truck,
8:56
Speaker 3: it's just it's strategy and it's getting to the end.
8:58
Speaker 3: It's that's riding fast. So that's where a normal consumer
9:03
Speaker 3: they get confused that, oh, I'm just going to take
9:05
Speaker 3: this let's say a Colorado or Toyota or whatever, and
9:08
Speaker 3: we're gonna put some fancy shocks on it. We're gonna
9:10
Speaker 3: be able to go fast and jump high. Which you
9:12
Speaker 3: can through it to a point. But there's a pretty
9:14
Speaker 3: fine line there with the OEM components and then with
9:17
Speaker 3: aftermarket components, you're right, like the hime joints and stuff
9:20
Speaker 3: like that. They're taking race truck technology, which race trucks
9:23
Speaker 3: get rebuilt their race pretty much. They don't deal with
9:26
Speaker 3: magnesium chloride on the road or sodium chloride on the road.
9:29
Speaker 3: They just don't have the same noise and vibration harshness issues.
9:34
Speaker 3: You're wearing helmet, you're getting air pumped in there, and
9:36
Speaker 3: you're not hearing any of that stuff. And then try
9:39
Speaker 3: and daily drive one of those trucks. It doesn't really work.
9:42
Speaker 2: Just absolutely.
9:43
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the Colorado Bisons probably as close to
9:48
Speaker 3: that one. Does it all for somebody with factory engineering.
9:52
Speaker 3: I think as as close as you can get to
9:54
Speaker 3: that solution, you can go pretty fast. In testing. We've
9:58
Speaker 3: jumped them ridiculou high in the sand.
10:01
Speaker 1: That's a factory provision from air bump nugget challenge.
10:05
Speaker 3: Hydraulics, Yeah, hydrauliccjouns bombs, which are a big deal. They
10:08
Speaker 3: can only they're still putting that energy in the frame, right,
10:10
Speaker 3: So yeah, you're still it still has limits, so it's
10:13
Speaker 3: important for consumers to understand those limits. But yeah, taking
10:16
Speaker 3: an after Marcus suspension. Race trucks generally have low frequency
10:21
Speaker 3: springs and that generally doesn't work very well on roads
10:24
Speaker 3: or carrying loads or doing overland type stuff. But it's
10:28
Speaker 3: just one of those things. Sometimes you got to realize
10:30
Speaker 3: consumers have to realize mixing and matching stuff can be
10:34
Speaker 3: there's challenges to that. Yeah, you're dereally not going to
10:36
Speaker 3: end up with a really good combination of stuff. You
10:40
Speaker 3: like X y Z brand of marketing on their suspension.
10:43
Speaker 3: You think their shocks look cool.
10:45
Speaker 2: And they do look cool, to be fair sure, like
10:47
Speaker 2: race truck shocks look awesome.
10:50
Speaker 1: That is just valving as well, though it's not necessarily
10:52
Speaker 1: the shock. A shock in concept is fairly simple until
10:56
Speaker 1: you get into the advanced valving. It's pretty nuance.
11:00
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you the other Like my kind of
11:03
Speaker 3: rule of thumb, if I see a shock that looks
11:05
Speaker 3: really fancy, generally on the aftermarket side, and if it
11:08
Speaker 3: doesn't have rebound damping, I pretty much write it off
11:11
Speaker 3: as not a real shot.
11:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
11:13
Speaker 3: So like on our side, like my personal company, av Our,
11:17
Speaker 3: shocks generally don't have adjustment because we're doing all the
11:20
Speaker 3: rebounding compression damping for what we intend the vehicle to do.
11:24
Speaker 3: We're doing it with professional shock tuners. And I've talked
11:27
Speaker 3: about this before. We might go out and hit a bump,
11:30
Speaker 3: one bump on a test track. We might literally sit
11:33
Speaker 3: there for three four days revalving shocks for one bump,
11:37
Speaker 3: different loads, if maybe a couple of different spring sets.
11:39
Speaker 3: But yeah, we'll be working on that, working front and
11:42
Speaker 3: rear on one bump because we can tell a lot
11:45
Speaker 3: just with one bump, over and over, repeatable. Where's a
11:48
Speaker 3: lot of the shock companies, suspension companies, they go out,
11:50
Speaker 3: they have a favorite section road they run down and
11:53
Speaker 3: it's seated the pants. It's not instrumental, it's just gus
11:55
Speaker 3: what it is. So we try and introduce more science
11:59
Speaker 3: on our side. But if I see a shock that
12:01
Speaker 3: looks really fancy and doesn't have rebound adjustment, but if
12:04
Speaker 3: they're getting in the rebound adjustment, then I'm like, okay,
12:06
Speaker 3: this is a real shock. Now does a consumer know
12:09
Speaker 3: what they're doing to tune it or to adjust it?
12:13
Speaker 3: It's mostly marketing, and.
12:14
Speaker 2: I think that's where the multimatos are so interesting to me.
12:17
Speaker 2: That's it's one of the high performance shocks. It's a
12:20
Speaker 2: factory fitment from some of the GM vehicles. Don't they
12:23
Speaker 2: have an exclusive on that for four whel drives?
12:25
Speaker 3: Maybe for four wheel drive, I think a lot of
12:27
Speaker 3: the performance cars. I think the new Mustang that four
12:30
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars lang that it's got them the four
12:33
Speaker 3: GT it's mostly on.
12:35
Speaker 1: Road that if they run that tecond like LMP cars.
12:39
Speaker 3: It's a complete rethink of a shock absorber. If you
12:42
Speaker 3: look at a it's not a deflective disc shock and
12:45
Speaker 3: the way the oil cycles through the shock. It's a
12:47
Speaker 3: complete rethink, which is good. It's not the deflective disc
12:51
Speaker 3: or external bypass shock doesn't have a lot of technology,
12:55
Speaker 3: just like angles of the little cones on top. I mean,
12:57
Speaker 3: there's so much.
12:58
Speaker 2: The blue stack and all those things that adjust it.
13:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, even if you check out the discs and just
13:03
Speaker 3: look at the nuance of where the holes are and
13:05
Speaker 3: sizing on the external bypasses and the cone shapes, and
13:09
Speaker 3: there's a lot to those shocks that people just don't understand.
13:12
Speaker 3: And it's you know, it's again it if you're looking
13:15
Speaker 3: at a shock and it looks really fancy, it's you've
13:17
Speaker 3: got a nice reservoir and all that and just the
13:19
Speaker 3: way it looks great. If you're thinking it's really going
13:21
Speaker 3: to work, it's like you got to do your research
13:23
Speaker 3: because you.
13:24
Speaker 2: Still have and you still have a stock frame. That's
13:27
Speaker 2: the thing you got to remember.
13:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
13:29
Speaker 2: So it's not it's not a ticket to go fast.
13:31
Speaker 3: Not sure, No, No, it's just not not really. And
13:35
Speaker 3: most consumers don't really have a comparison of this shock
13:39
Speaker 3: versus that shock versus this shock. They buy it. They're expensive,
13:42
Speaker 3: so you're not going to buy three sets and then
13:44
Speaker 3: go out in comparison. Just the human nature of it,
13:47
Speaker 3: human psychology. You pay a lot of money. Yeah, and
13:50
Speaker 3: it may be better. You may not be able to
13:52
Speaker 3: tell it's better. You want to think it's better. You
13:54
Speaker 3: know your your confirmation bias is going to be that
13:57
Speaker 3: it's better.
13:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13:58
Speaker 3: It gets into human psychology and a lot of stuff.
14:01
Speaker 3: So then that stuff gets transferred back to the internet,
14:03
Speaker 3: which gets transferred back to sales. There's some unique challenges
14:06
Speaker 3: there in the marketing handle their marketing aspect, and that's
14:10
Speaker 3: something that's funny. AEV is, actually we're not a marketing company.
14:13
Speaker 3: We're an engineering company. We have a really hard time
14:15
Speaker 3: telling that story because we're more interested in engineering and
14:19
Speaker 3: getting a product out that we think the consumer will
14:22
Speaker 3: really and appreciate. But we're bad at marketing. And then
14:25
Speaker 3: you look at other companies, they're marketing companies and they
14:28
Speaker 3: do a great job of doing that. We do job generally.
14:31
Speaker 3: We're trying to improve that we've got something.
14:33
Speaker 2: We're grateful that you guys make great product and that's
14:35
Speaker 2: how you ended up working for GM and working for
14:38
Speaker 2: building products for RAM and.
14:40
Speaker 3: It is yeah, all that, Yeah, it wasn't a unique thing.
14:42
Speaker 3: We just had sales week last week at our place
14:43
Speaker 3: in Michigan and we were talking about it. And it's
14:45
Speaker 3: really interesting because we have here, we have a great
14:47
Speaker 3: crew of folks and they're all willing to we look
14:51
Speaker 3: at a product and we look at our costs and
14:54
Speaker 3: our design costs and our manufacturing costs, and then most
14:57
Speaker 3: companies will just add the the profit on top that
15:01
Speaker 3: they want to see going through dealers and all this stuff, right,
15:04
Speaker 3: and it stacks up to the cost. It's just not feasible.
15:07
Speaker 3: And it's pretty interesting because I've got two partners. But
15:10
Speaker 3: we're willing to say, Okay, we're willing to take less,
15:14
Speaker 3: We're willing to not put that whatever forty percent margin
15:18
Speaker 3: or whatever on top, and we're willing to do it
15:20
Speaker 3: for way less just to get that product out there
15:23
Speaker 3: because we think it's just the right thing to do.
15:25
Speaker 3: It's cool, whether it's a steel stamp bump or our
15:28
Speaker 3: costs are way higher than everyone else's and we still
15:30
Speaker 3: retail for about the same cost, and so you start
15:32
Speaker 3: looking at that and it's we do that because we
15:35
Speaker 3: have a passionate group of engineering folks that want to
15:38
Speaker 3: get this technology out there and show people. But it's
15:41
Speaker 3: it's challenging, right, I can't imagine it's challenging. And then
15:45
Speaker 3: we do take all that OEM lessons learned, all those
15:49
Speaker 3: the OEM lessons learned, and we do put it back
15:51
Speaker 3: into our aftermarket side. We were just talking about the
15:54
Speaker 3: bumpers and the gaps. We have this let's say a
15:56
Speaker 3: one inch gap below the headlamps, and you look at
16:00
Speaker 3: a truck that's flexed out and one side it's basically
16:02
Speaker 3: touching the other side it's a two inch gap, and
16:05
Speaker 3: that's because the frame flex. And then you look at
16:07
Speaker 3: most of the bumpers around like where we're sitting, and
16:09
Speaker 3: they're all they look real nice and static. But then
16:12
Speaker 3: if you were to like slow motion that thing off road.
16:15
Speaker 3: Literally you're seeing your headlamps moving, the factor's moving some.
16:18
Speaker 1: Like Toyota bumpers in particular, they're built right on it
16:21
Speaker 1: the factory plastic bumper, but it's like a clearance but
16:24
Speaker 1: like it's touching, and it's.
16:26
Speaker 3: Something that's okay if you're just cutting of plastic. Face
16:28
Speaker 3: of the facia will move, but there's a lot of
16:30
Speaker 3: those that are right up under the headlamp, and so
16:32
Speaker 3: that headlamp is hard plastic.
16:33
Speaker 1: Even if it's hitting the face, it's gonna one thousand
16:36
Speaker 1: miles of corrugation and it's gonna.
16:38
Speaker 3: Caut some corrosion issues. Yeah, yeah, that's typically corrosion issues.
16:41
Speaker 3: But when you look at it, like when you see
16:43
Speaker 3: a Ford or a Toyota, where it's right up under
16:46
Speaker 3: the head lamp, Yeah, it's gonna cause issues over time.
16:48
Speaker 3: And that's where you start to get those intangibles. Oh,
16:50
Speaker 3: this car is really rattily. I don't remember it being
16:53
Speaker 3: this rattlely. Well, if you slow motion video that front
16:57
Speaker 3: end moving off road, like on a washboard, you'd see
17:00
Speaker 3: why everything all of a sudden kind of feels radially
17:02
Speaker 3: and there's no way to fix it. It's not like
17:04
Speaker 3: you're tightening up screws. Sure, everything just loosened up, and
17:07
Speaker 3: a lot of it's because of things like that.
17:09
Speaker 2: Amazing.
17:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember you were looking at the factory bulbar
17:14
Speaker 1: and the ineos even and like Dave kind of like
17:17
Speaker 1: goes up to something and just like starts like violently
17:19
Speaker 1: shaking it. Yeah, that sucks. It looks so good.
17:24
Speaker 3: Actually that's an exaggeration. What I did is I went
17:28
Speaker 3: up and I actually did it like a tuning for
17:30
Speaker 3: test where that thing was unsupported out of the edge,
17:34
Speaker 3: and I just tap it right and then I sit
17:36
Speaker 3: back and I watch it vibrate. Yeah, and that's okay. Yep.
17:40
Speaker 3: You can see that's going to be a problem over time.
17:43
Speaker 3: Same thing with tire carriage. If you can go up
17:45
Speaker 3: to any tire carrier like on the back of a
17:47
Speaker 3: jeep or camp or whatever, and if you can move it,
17:50
Speaker 3: you can. That will light up on a washboard and
17:53
Speaker 3: it's not gonna last long anything. If you can even
17:56
Speaker 3: move it, it's not. And that's like tire carriage are
17:58
Speaker 3: very challenging engineer problem.
18:01
Speaker 2: But what a great example for those that are listening
18:04
Speaker 2: to think about when you're at an Overland Expo. This
18:06
Speaker 2: is where we're recording this podcast is at Overland Expo,
18:09
Speaker 2: and you're looking for that swing out tire carrier. Go
18:12
Speaker 2: up and smack that thing with your fist and see
18:15
Speaker 2: if it vibrates, and then grab the tire and try
18:17
Speaker 2: to move it.
18:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, if it shakes, if it's brand new, Yeah, if
18:21
Speaker 3: it even moves. But it's like a lot of them.
18:23
Speaker 3: You can go up in very gently, like one finger.
18:26
Speaker 3: You can just start rocking it and it'll get into
18:28
Speaker 3: that natural harmonic frequency and pretty soon the whole truck's
18:32
Speaker 3: bouncing and I just touched it with one finger.
18:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:34
Speaker 1: Forerunners are the worst because there's no good way to
18:37
Speaker 1: put Yeah.
18:37
Speaker 3: They're challenging on all the trucks. It's one of the
18:41
Speaker 3: most challenging things to handle.
18:44
Speaker 2: And the tires are so heavy. It's the Dave Harreton
18:46
Speaker 2: one finger death punch.
18:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can show you, guys. I'm not going to
18:51
Speaker 3: any names.
18:51
Speaker 2: I watched you do it on That name will not
18:54
Speaker 2: be named Camper Vehicle.
18:55
Speaker 3: Yes, but we could. Yeah. Literally, I can get a
18:57
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty pounds tire going with one finger, Yeah,
19:00
Speaker 3: not doing anything. And then if you keep doing it
19:03
Speaker 3: and just keep it going on that frequency. It's kind
19:05
Speaker 3: of like swing set, right, keep pumping the swing set
19:07
Speaker 3: with one finger. Pretty soon the entire frame of the
19:10
Speaker 3: truck will be bouncing and it just will destroy itself
19:13
Speaker 3: over time, and it's kind it's how much time? Sure
19:17
Speaker 3: is the question?
19:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess a lot of the guys that are
19:20
Speaker 1: genuinely using the products. And then there's the automotive restyling side.
19:24
Speaker 1: And if you're only driving back your commute, shooting or whatever,
19:27
Speaker 1: that's fine. That's not saying it's a bad thing, but
19:29
Speaker 1: your use cases can be different. So people can have
19:31
Speaker 1: those people can have really good experiences with the product,
19:34
Speaker 1: and then somebody who's really using it can having a
19:37
Speaker 1: totally drastically different experience.
19:39
Speaker 3: So we just had a sales week. Like I said,
19:41
Speaker 3: back in Michigan, we were bringing all over sales team
19:43
Speaker 3: and we're going through wheels and wheel testing with our
19:45
Speaker 3: sales folks, and they didn't understand some of the wheel testing.
19:49
Speaker 3: And there's a radial test where you actually take the
19:52
Speaker 3: wheel and bolt it down and then they bolt an
19:56
Speaker 3: axle shaft to it and it moves around eccentrically and
19:58
Speaker 3: it literally bends the whole disc of the wheel, and
20:01
Speaker 3: it's some of those tests. There's another one a rate
20:04
Speaker 3: with static radio. There's a bunch of different tests. There's
20:07
Speaker 3: three major tests, but it really has everything to do
20:10
Speaker 3: with tire size because because of the leverage. I think
20:13
Speaker 3: we're as far as I know, we're one of the
20:14
Speaker 3: very few companies. So when we do a wheel and
20:17
Speaker 3: we rate it at whatever, forty one hundred pounds, we're
20:20
Speaker 3: testing that with a forty one inch tire and it's
20:22
Speaker 3: crazy because the tires can't get through the tests. So
20:25
Speaker 3: we are burning up an immense amount of tires, like
20:28
Speaker 3: forty forty one inch tires to get through these tests.
20:32
Speaker 3: Most wheel companies are literally going to their wheel supplier.
20:37
Speaker 3: They're saying, Hey, this is what we want the A
20:38
Speaker 3: side to look like. This is the size and the
20:41
Speaker 3: offs that we want, and this is the colors we want.
20:43
Speaker 3: That's it we do. We actually do all the engineering
20:46
Speaker 3: and then we work with the wheel company to work
20:48
Speaker 3: through that. But we're doing it. We're testing it. So
20:51
Speaker 3: if you buy a Wrangler, I think we're doing it
20:53
Speaker 3: with forty inch tires. If you buying a Ram, I
20:55
Speaker 3: think we're doing it forty two inch tires, like we
20:57
Speaker 3: go up. Yeah, sure, one size, even though most of
21:00
Speaker 3: wranglers are thirty seven and most of our forties. Yeah,
21:03
Speaker 3: it gives us some room. So when we do that,
21:05
Speaker 3: we're doing those low tests with those tires. And I know,
21:08
Speaker 3: I think Weld used to do it, but I don't
21:10
Speaker 3: know of anybody else really doing it.
21:12
Speaker 1: So I don't actually know if I've, like even on
21:13
Speaker 1: the marketing side, heard anybody talk about that. It's like
21:16
Speaker 1: the wheel testing thing is something I've been like re
21:18
Speaker 1: wonder leuctions and does that.
21:20
Speaker 4: A special thanks to Hanecooke Dina pro Tires for supporting
21:23
Speaker 4: this week's podcast. Visit expedition portal dot com to see
21:27
Speaker 4: our content series in partnership of Hon Cook, where you
21:30
Speaker 4: learn about this year's Jeep Beach event in Daytona, Florida,
21:34
Speaker 4: get tips on exploring the O'calla National Forest, and take
21:37
Speaker 4: a tour of the Motorsports Hall of Fame of America
21:40
Speaker 4: at the Daytona International Speedway. We also take a close
21:44
Speaker 4: look at how to choose a mud terrain, all terrain
21:46
Speaker 4: or hybrid rugged terrain tire using the hon Koke Dinafro
21:49
Speaker 4: tire line up.
21:50
Speaker 3: As examples. I would venture to guess that they have
21:54
Speaker 3: a very specific use case. So they're generally designing for
21:57
Speaker 3: military vehicles with a specific tire.
21:58
Speaker 1: Do a load rating for sure?
22:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, the wheels, but if you look, if you think
22:02
Speaker 3: about an aftermarket company, they don't know if you're putting
22:04
Speaker 3: a two thirty five seventy five seventeen on or the
22:07
Speaker 3: forty one. Yeah, And so generally the wheel companies will
22:11
Speaker 3: just go ahead and test with that standard tire, maybe
22:15
Speaker 3: no EM size or maybe just standard size and two
22:17
Speaker 3: thirty five. They don't really know what these wheels are
22:20
Speaker 3: going on, whether they're going on a Forerunner or a RAM
22:22
Speaker 3: or whatever. Our wheels are very specific, and so we
22:25
Speaker 3: it's a benefit for us. We can really test specifically
22:28
Speaker 3: for that vehicle with that fitment in mind and that
22:31
Speaker 3: tire in mind. And so if you just go out
22:33
Speaker 3: and buy an aftermarket wheel at a tire store, chances
22:37
Speaker 3: that it are rated, that it's been tested for thirty
22:40
Speaker 3: sevens is virtually no.
22:41
Speaker 2: Wow.
22:42
Speaker 1: So are they just overbuilding the crop out of these wheels?
22:45
Speaker 3: So now you'll end up with failures?
22:47
Speaker 2: Yeah?
22:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many of these. I'm going to call
22:49
Speaker 1: them fly by that wheel companies that are out there
22:52
Speaker 1: because the sourcing is just relatively easy, so the design's
22:55
Speaker 1: not incredibly complex. It's one one piece you're tooling.
22:59
Speaker 3: A lot of wheels companies are actually marketing companies, and
23:01
Speaker 3: that's the.
23:02
Speaker 2: Some of them are doing a really good job at marketing,
23:04
Speaker 2: like we talked about with the shocks one hundred percent.
23:06
Speaker 3: So most wheel companies, it's a like you said, it's
23:10
Speaker 3: more of a matter of personal taste. It's not really
23:12
Speaker 3: a functional thing. There's exceptions, like the Hutchinson or some
23:15
Speaker 3: of the other there are some exceptions, but for the
23:18
Speaker 3: most part of wheel is for to a consumers the
23:20
Speaker 3: wheels a wheel, you're looking for that stance, you're looking for,
23:23
Speaker 3: the color, you're looking for the styling, just a styling
23:27
Speaker 3: that you like that kind of sets the tone for
23:29
Speaker 3: the vehicle. So a lot of it's just personal preference.
23:31
Speaker 3: But there are some technical things like is it really
23:34
Speaker 3: rated for that vehicle and the weight of your vehicle. Okay,
23:38
Speaker 3: you put a tent on your ineos and you're those
23:41
Speaker 3: things are already sixty five hundred pounds and now now
23:43
Speaker 3: you're over seven thousand pounds. Sure, and you bought a wheel.
23:47
Speaker 3: That's maybe it's twenty six hundred pounds per wheel, sure,
23:50
Speaker 3: and that was with a thirty five inch tire. Yeah,
23:53
Speaker 3: with a thirty two I'm sorry, thirty two inch hire.
23:55
Speaker 3: Now you put thirty five's on us. Now you're just
23:58
Speaker 3: waiting for something to break in the country.
24:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the only thing that helps the anios
24:02
Speaker 2: a little bit is that it's the same wheel as
24:04
Speaker 2: the sprinter, so those are going to be really heavy
24:06
Speaker 2: duty applications.
24:07
Speaker 3: Which helps it helps a little bit out.
24:09
Speaker 2: That helps a little bit, I think. But now, one
24:11
Speaker 2: of the things that I think it'd be great to
24:13
Speaker 2: talk about on the wheel side, because this is unique,
24:16
Speaker 2: is you guys, and even for the OEMs, you do this.
24:19
Speaker 2: You provide wheels that can be configured as a standard
24:25
Speaker 2: mounting configuration where the bead is inside the wheel width,
24:29
Speaker 2: and then you have another configuration where the outer bead
24:32
Speaker 2: can be placed outside of that rim face and then
24:36
Speaker 2: used with a beadlock. So let's talk a little bit
24:38
Speaker 2: about how did you get that to even be street legal,
24:40
Speaker 2: because most beelocks are not dot legal, so come client, Yeah,
24:46
Speaker 2: people through that.
24:47
Speaker 3: Yeah. So there's a lot of history and the legacy
24:50
Speaker 3: there when you say it's not dot legal. If you
24:52
Speaker 3: go back, a lot of beadlocks weren't being made as
24:55
Speaker 3: a wheel. Normally they were a ring. But you took
24:58
Speaker 3: you took it off the shelf aftermarket wheel. You cut
25:01
Speaker 3: the outer beat off, then you welded on sure an
25:04
Speaker 3: aluminum ring that was your inner bead seat machine it down,
25:08
Speaker 3: recode it, and then you have the outer So where
25:11
Speaker 3: that was not legal was Now you're taking a street
25:14
Speaker 3: legal wheel that's already been tested and you're cutting it
25:17
Speaker 3: up and rewelding. Right, So now that testing would have
25:19
Speaker 3: to be redone and it would have to be done
25:21
Speaker 3: on individual wheels because every wheel's individually modified. So that's
25:24
Speaker 3: a legacy in the history of.
25:26
Speaker 2: That's helpful to know. I didn't know that.
25:27
Speaker 3: It's awesome why that's why they're quote unquote not legal.
25:30
Speaker 3: Technically a badlock wheel today that's made as a badlock
25:34
Speaker 3: like ours, that whole piece that was being welded on
25:37
Speaker 3: is cast in and it's tested that way, tested in
25:39
Speaker 3: both configurations, so he has a standard mounting. It's just
25:43
Speaker 3: normal wheel. In the beadlock configuration, it's technically considered a
25:48
Speaker 3: two piece wheel, and we're doing all the same tests
25:51
Speaker 3: with that two piece configuration. So two and three piece
25:53
Speaker 3: wheels are legal. There may be one state or two
25:56
Speaker 3: states that maybe they aren't, but I think for the
25:58
Speaker 3: most part that's not the shoe. So it really comes
26:01
Speaker 3: down to being tested and then not violating that test.
26:06
Speaker 2: But as far as I'm far, as I'm aware, you
26:09
Speaker 2: have AEV wheels that are tested to be DOT legal,
26:13
Speaker 2: and then Hutchinson again our DOT approved. I'm not familiar
26:16
Speaker 2: with any others that are DOT.
26:19
Speaker 3: I'm not either. They probably exist because all you have
26:23
Speaker 3: to do is go through the testing, but it's not easy.
26:25
Speaker 3: We definitely found limits to doing that.
26:28
Speaker 2: Well, maybe some Ford factory wheels.
26:30
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yep, Ford factory has done it. That's right.
26:32
Speaker 3: Both Par has one mo Par Yeah, yep, power Wagon
26:35
Speaker 3: has one.
26:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. So some factory fitments.
26:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's a lot of testing to do and
26:39
Speaker 3: that's expensive part of Honestly, that's the expensive part of
26:42
Speaker 3: making wheel besides just inventoring them. Sure is the testing.
26:45
Speaker 3: If you go back to aftermarket wheels, this is an
26:48
Speaker 3: interesting tidbit. Most wheels are made in China. We used
26:52
Speaker 3: to have some wheels in the United States. In fact,
26:54
Speaker 3: when I first started making wheels. They were made in California.
26:56
Speaker 3: Everything was great. The Chinese government subsidized it kind of
27:00
Speaker 3: relates to today.
27:01
Speaker 1: Soize is the energy for the well casting process.
27:04
Speaker 3: So this is going back into the nineties. But they
27:07
Speaker 3: subsidized wheels seventeen percent. I think it was for about
27:10
Speaker 3: fifteen years. And when it when ended up happenings not
27:13
Speaker 3: only were their labor and their environmental costs less, but
27:16
Speaker 3: they like I got a call one day for my
27:18
Speaker 3: wheel supplier and he said, hey, we're no longer going
27:21
Speaker 3: to be baking these wheels in the US, right because
27:23
Speaker 3: everything I do is made in the US except for
27:25
Speaker 3: our wheels. So I said, okay, he said, but the
27:28
Speaker 3: good news is who we're selling the same machines. We're
27:30
Speaker 3: selling them to our Chinese partners. The people who are
27:33
Speaker 3: running these machines are going to China, so it's same people,
27:35
Speaker 3: same machines. You're going to get the same wheel quality,
27:38
Speaker 3: and by the way, they're gonna be twenty dollars per
27:40
Speaker 3: wheel cheaper. Okay, I guess that sounds okay. I'm not
27:43
Speaker 3: real thrilled about it, but okay, that ended up happening
27:46
Speaker 3: with just about every aluminum wheel plant in the country.
27:50
Speaker 3: So there's I think there's two OEM wheel plants still
27:53
Speaker 3: in the country. But unless you're going to make fifty
27:55
Speaker 3: thousand of each wheel, they don't even want to talk
27:57
Speaker 3: to you. And so basically there's no way to make
28:00
Speaker 3: an aftermarket cast aluminum wheel in the United States today.
28:03
Speaker 2: So you'd have the machine one.
28:05
Speaker 3: You can machine them, but that's ten thousand bucks for
28:08
Speaker 3: a set of a week, that's right, that's right. And
28:09
Speaker 3: then there's people that will bring in forgings and then
28:12
Speaker 3: finish the wheels here with some machining and whatnot. But
28:14
Speaker 3: to do just a regular cast alumin and wheel, like
28:16
Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of wheels are you can't do in
28:19
Speaker 3: the United States anymore. Wow, So we were forced to
28:21
Speaker 3: go to China. Everybody is there's we do some wheels
28:24
Speaker 3: in Italy. Now we do some wheels in Taiwans. We're
28:26
Speaker 3: trying to that. Our company is trying to diversify. But
28:30
Speaker 3: getting back to that, so this kind of the history
28:31
Speaker 3: and the legacy of that market. When we do wheels,
28:35
Speaker 3: like yes, the wheel companies do they do initial testing,
28:39
Speaker 3: they'll come back and say, hey, you're gonna have some
28:41
Speaker 3: problems here. Here, Okay, we'll change those.
28:43
Speaker 1: Is there a certification for that, because there's like the
28:46
Speaker 1: there's always a stamp that I see.
28:48
Speaker 3: On wheels like JA and I forget. Yeah, Jay, it's
28:53
Speaker 3: a J. And then there's n SAE standard. Yes, yeah,
28:56
Speaker 3: there's standard tests that you have to pass. Yes, you
28:58
Speaker 3: don't see that a wheel like run, you'll see that,
29:02
Speaker 3: and the Chinese will put that in regardless. But what
29:05
Speaker 3: I was getting at is they do the wheel testing,
29:07
Speaker 3: so most companies just rely on the wheel testing that's
29:09
Speaker 3: done in China.
29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:10
Speaker 3: Sure, when we bring up like before, we do well,
29:13
Speaker 3: we do our own independent testing. So we send them
29:15
Speaker 3: to a lab right down the street in Michigan and
29:17
Speaker 3: we do all the same tests that they already did,
29:19
Speaker 3: and we verify because we have we've learned the hard
29:22
Speaker 3: way that the Chinese tests aren't necessarily the same as
29:24
Speaker 3: tests done in another country. So our Italian wheels really
29:28
Speaker 3: they're great, they're high quality, they cost more the ones
29:31
Speaker 3: that we're doing in Taiwan, or they're really good quality too,
29:36
Speaker 3: and somewhere in between, right, So we've been trying to
29:38
Speaker 3: get more and more out of that. But just I
29:41
Speaker 3: think the point is even the testing Yeah, if you
29:45
Speaker 3: get a Wheelman in China, it's going to pass test.
29:46
Speaker 1: That's also one of the cool things with you guys
29:48
Speaker 1: being in Michigan, so you have all.
29:51
Speaker 2: Of those resources.
29:52
Speaker 1: Like I always felt like there's things that like, oh man,
29:55
Speaker 1: Michigan that sucks because I'm from Illinois, and like Midwest sucks,
29:58
Speaker 1: angsty kid, but things that you couldn't do anywhere else.
30:01
Speaker 3: There's no other lab. There's probably not another one of
30:04
Speaker 3: those lab. There might there's probably one down like South
30:06
Speaker 3: Carolina or someplace down south. I think there's a lab
30:08
Speaker 3: and maybe other companies to do. I'm not saying that
30:10
Speaker 3: nobody else does this and we're but we've definitely learned, Okay,
30:13
Speaker 3: we have to do our own independent testing to make
30:16
Speaker 3: sure we don't have problems because we have been bid
30:17
Speaker 3: on that before. We've learned the hard way over the
30:20
Speaker 3: last thirty years.
30:20
Speaker 2: Well, I remember you told me a story when you
30:22
Speaker 2: were just getting started. You had some problems with the
30:25
Speaker 2: some codings. Oh and like it was like almost a
30:28
Speaker 2: company ender. And it's I've had those things happen too.
30:30
Speaker 2: If we tested a product and they were not happy
30:33
Speaker 2: with the results and they came after us lawyered up
30:37
Speaker 2: for telling the truth, and we had to provide all
30:40
Speaker 2: of this testing that we did and then recreate the
30:43
Speaker 2: test and send them the results again. And they were
30:46
Speaker 2: prepared to like put us out of business for ye
30:49
Speaker 2: speaking the truth about their product.
30:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, that can be a tough like for us manufacturing
30:54
Speaker 3: a product. I think what you're talking about was a
30:56
Speaker 3: Cherokee bumper. We tried to do years and years ago,
30:59
Speaker 3: original j Turkey, and we paid for top dollar for
31:04
Speaker 3: all the engineering, paid top dollar for all the laser
31:06
Speaker 3: cutting and bending and we welding. We had all just
31:09
Speaker 3: beautiful product. And then we send it to a local
31:11
Speaker 3: powder cot or, we get the powder coat put on it,
31:13
Speaker 3: we send it to the customer. Standard powder coat fails
31:17
Speaker 3: in eighteen months and then you know, basically it was bad, right.
31:21
Speaker 3: They were rusting, even though we paid for all the
31:23
Speaker 3: best stuff underneath. Yep, we had to buy them all
31:26
Speaker 3: back at retail. So that's yeah. At the time, that
31:29
Speaker 3: was a oh it hurts, it hurts. Yeah, you might
31:31
Speaker 3: as well have just taped on hundred dollars boxes to
31:34
Speaker 3: or one hundred dollars to boxes and send them out, right.
31:36
Speaker 3: It was a yeah, so you have to be really
31:39
Speaker 3: careful about that on the aftermarket side, especially in coatings
31:43
Speaker 3: or coatings is one of the It's a very difficult
31:47
Speaker 3: thing in a lot of places the country. If you
31:48
Speaker 3: live in southern California, I who cares you get anything less?
31:52
Speaker 3: But when you get into Michigan, Montana, Idaho, anywhere up
31:55
Speaker 3: north where they're using a lot of salts and sprays. Yeah,
31:58
Speaker 3: eighteen months is standard powder coat When we do OEM,
32:02
Speaker 3: we have to do for all over the world and
32:03
Speaker 3: supply a fifteen year warranty on that, so we do finish. Yeah,
32:08
Speaker 3: we do a lot of testing.
32:09
Speaker 1: Tell me, like how many steps there are to that
32:11
Speaker 1: process of coding on like the on the OE side on.
32:15
Speaker 3: It depends, yep, But it can be multiple steps. The
32:19
Speaker 3: testing can be months going into one hundred percent humidity
32:24
Speaker 3: percent or one hundred degree tempts gravel where we're throwing
32:26
Speaker 3: gravel at it eighty miles an hour. Yeah, just doing
32:29
Speaker 3: all those tests to make sure the coatings are right.
32:33
Speaker 3: But yeah, we do. Sometimes we'll start with the raw
32:36
Speaker 3: material that has zinc pressed into the outside surface of
32:40
Speaker 3: the steel, that's called the galvin eel. We'll start with that.
32:43
Speaker 3: Then we will generally zinc coat or i'm sorry, zinc coat.
32:47
Speaker 3: Then we'll ecoat, and ecote is a liquid where Yeah,
32:50
Speaker 3: I think that's probably what you're talking about. Where there's
32:51
Speaker 3: about twelve to fifteen different tanks that they go into.
32:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm thinking of.
32:56
Speaker 3: Most of that's like different stages of cleaning and then
33:00
Speaker 3: and then a liquid paint that goes into every little
33:02
Speaker 3: nook and cranny that a welder might have missed, a
33:04
Speaker 3: little pothole, and then a top coat of powder coat.
33:06
Speaker 3: And even then honestly, if you're driving and you've got
33:09
Speaker 3: a let's say a ram truck or deep and you're
33:12
Speaker 3: really using it and you're out in the all weather
33:14
Speaker 3: all the time, we still recommend we have a special
33:18
Speaker 3: textured spray paint that you can touch up with because
33:20
Speaker 3: you know, you just can't stone chips. Yeah, stones, stones
33:23
Speaker 3: will get under and all those materials that are underneath
33:26
Speaker 3: will prevent creep, but you'll still get little spots. But
33:29
Speaker 3: we still recommend touching it up every two to three years.
33:32
Speaker 3: If you touch it up every two to three years,
33:34
Speaker 3: it'll last forever.
33:35
Speaker 2: And that paint is pretty amazing. Yep, Like I don't
33:39
Speaker 2: know where you guys made. I don't know what magic
33:41
Speaker 2: you put into that spray can, but yeah, I've had
33:43
Speaker 2: a couple AV bumpers in my life and I'm like,
33:46
Speaker 2: you put the spray can down and I can hardly
33:48
Speaker 2: tell whrice.
33:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you do it right, you can't.
33:50
Speaker 2: Blend at all. Blend yeah, perfect, it's amazing.
33:53
Speaker 3: Yeah. But if you do that, and if you do
33:54
Speaker 3: it every let's say three years, you'll never have a problem.
33:57
Speaker 3: That thing will last forever. But it's really it's of
34:00
Speaker 3: stones that get underneath and then the creep. And that's
34:03
Speaker 3: the problem with most aftermarket coatings. You'll see it start
34:06
Speaker 3: to creep underneath after.
34:08
Speaker 2: And then the yeah, then the powder coat starts to
34:11
Speaker 2: peel off.
34:11
Speaker 3: Yeah. And once you get to that point, it's failed.
34:13
Speaker 3: It's you're done.
34:14
Speaker 2: So when someone's looking to buy an aftermarket bumper, what
34:18
Speaker 2: are some of those key terms they are going to
34:20
Speaker 2: be looking for on the coatings. So if you're seeing zinc,
34:24
Speaker 2: if you're seeing.
34:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, so most of the aftermarket. If you're not, let's
34:28
Speaker 3: say in Michigan where you have access, maybe you have
34:30
Speaker 3: access to E coat. If you do enough volume, sure,
34:33
Speaker 3: the best thing you could do would be a zinc
34:34
Speaker 3: coat and then a powder coat.
34:36
Speaker 2: Got it.
34:36
Speaker 3: It's more expensive, it'll last longer, but you'll still have
34:39
Speaker 3: to stay up with it. You'll still have to paint
34:41
Speaker 3: it at some point over time. If you live in
34:44
Speaker 3: one of those areas like I do Montana, Idaho, we
34:47
Speaker 3: get magnesiumploride, which is different than the sodium ployer they
34:50
Speaker 3: use in some other states, and both are very pervasive
34:53
Speaker 3: and very corrosive. So you just have to be really careful.
34:56
Speaker 3: But that is a problem with aftermarket components. Even like
35:00
Speaker 3: ARB does a really good job, but they're doing steel shot,
35:03
Speaker 3: so then you have steel shot contamination problems, right, so
35:06
Speaker 3: they have to be very careful on that. And then
35:09
Speaker 3: and then they're doing this inc and the and then
35:11
Speaker 3: maybe some iron phosphate washes trying to clean it up
35:14
Speaker 3: to get good adhesion. Sure, but it's still whether it's
35:17
Speaker 3: ours or anybody else's, it's it's a really difficult thing.
35:21
Speaker 3: I know we have the best in the market in
35:23
Speaker 3: the industry, but it's because we're using the OEM coatings, right,
35:26
Speaker 3: so ours are going to be the same as any OEM.
35:28
Speaker 3: But it's even then it's not completely infallible. If you're
35:31
Speaker 3: really pushing it in all.
35:33
Speaker 1: And I guess on temperatures on some vehicles, it's just
35:36
Speaker 1: not going to be an option to have that now
35:38
Speaker 1: you're driving like a niche vehicle. It's going to be
35:41
Speaker 1: it is what it is. The pump market, it's not
35:43
Speaker 1: going to be large enough for it. Unfortunately, it's not
35:45
Speaker 1: always it.
35:46
Speaker 3: And maybe live in Arizona, like you, literally.
35:50
Speaker 1: People don't paint cars sometimes and they just let them
35:53
Speaker 1: get this nice little yeah.
35:56
Speaker 2: Right, And that's another argument for the factory Overlander is
36:00
Speaker 2: like if you buy at eight four XAV you're getting
36:02
Speaker 2: these bitch and bumpers that are going to last fifteen
36:05
Speaker 2: years on the truck that are a yes.
36:06
Speaker 3: The coding, you're getting these air bag testing and crash
36:10
Speaker 3: not just air bags but crash testing. So that's a
36:13
Speaker 3: good one. We could talk about as air bags. It
36:15
Speaker 3: turns out that when you put a giant bumper on
36:18
Speaker 3: a truck and run it into a wall, typically the
36:22
Speaker 3: air bags can definitely be affected. But there's certain speeds
36:25
Speaker 3: that are must not deploy. So if you hit a
36:28
Speaker 3: pole in a parking lot at six miles an hour,
36:29
Speaker 3: you have to have a must not deploy. But if
36:32
Speaker 3: you just put an aftermark a bumper on there, and
36:34
Speaker 3: you tie those frame rails together really tight, and you
36:37
Speaker 3: do a bunch of different things. You will have a deployment.
36:40
Speaker 3: You can have a premature deployment, which is almost more
36:43
Speaker 3: dangerous than a You probably will not have a not
36:46
Speaker 3: deploy Let's say you were in a big accident. Sure,
36:49
Speaker 3: but you're going to affect. You're going to go over
36:51
Speaker 3: those g loads and the sensors are going to do
36:53
Speaker 3: their job.
36:53
Speaker 1: Ye, it's like a deceleration acceleration sensor that triggers.
36:56
Speaker 3: For the most part, it's a graph, right, so they're
36:58
Speaker 3: looking at various curves. Yeah, it's basically acceleration sensor, so
37:02
Speaker 3: they can see. You can see if you watch the graph,
37:04
Speaker 3: let's say the little plastic crush cans in the front
37:07
Speaker 3: of a jeep, you can actually see a slight deceleration,
37:10
Speaker 3: and then you can see when you get into the
37:11
Speaker 3: crush can underneath, you see a little more descileration. Then
37:13
Speaker 3: you can see when you're into this part of the
37:15
Speaker 3: frame and this part of the frame, and you can
37:17
Speaker 3: actually very easily see like when we're doing it with
37:20
Speaker 3: the OEMs, you can very easily see every step of
37:24
Speaker 3: the crash. It's within milliseconds and you can see, Okay,
37:28
Speaker 3: if this piece is not plastic, if it's this, it's
37:31
Speaker 3: going to change this and then we're gonna we run
37:33
Speaker 3: the risk of this. So we can tune that. We
37:36
Speaker 3: can tune a lot of those things. Those crush cans
37:38
Speaker 3: are for must not deploy okay scenarios.
37:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in some vehicles, an airbag deployment can result
37:44
Speaker 2: in the vehicle being totaled.
37:47
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, total, or it shows up in carfax two
37:51
Speaker 1: airbag deployed in accident, which may not be a total.
37:55
Speaker 1: But yeah, that on a carfax.
37:57
Speaker 3: You're kind of like, yeah, honestly, you have the side
38:00
Speaker 3: air bags. When you start lifting vehicles and changing the
38:02
Speaker 3: moment and you can change the acceleration, you can get
38:05
Speaker 3: a false deployment on a side.
38:06
Speaker 2: Air bag down. Oh jeez, it would be shocking.
38:11
Speaker 3: We've seen it in testing.
38:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
38:13
Speaker 3: You actually had that happen in testing. Whereas, oh, we
38:15
Speaker 3: need to retune this. Oh wow, as we learned about
38:18
Speaker 3: the hardware, and that's through testing.
38:20
Speaker 1: Never thought of that. That would be terrify because you're
38:22
Speaker 1: like you're bouncing down a road.
38:24
Speaker 2: You're going not.
38:25
Speaker 1: Only faster from an aftermarket suspension with better tuning. Let's say,
38:28
Speaker 1: let's say and then you're higher, You're literally all.
38:31
Speaker 3: The math right, just through the math. You're higher.
38:32
Speaker 1: The velocity is so much higher.
38:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, so your side to side velossities can be over
38:37
Speaker 3: that threshold where you could detonate a side air bag
38:40
Speaker 3: pretty easily.
38:41
Speaker 2: Remember you had Toyotas for a while had a button
38:44
Speaker 2: that you would need to depress off road to keep
38:47
Speaker 2: that from happening early on during side curtain when they
38:50
Speaker 2: first came out with side curtain air bags. Yeah, certain
38:53
Speaker 2: Lexus models, certain Toyota fool drives, the FJ Cruiser have that.
38:57
Speaker 2: It absolutely did. So you had to get a whole
39:00
Speaker 2: down that button when you went off road, which who's
39:02
Speaker 2: gonna first of all know what that button means and
39:04
Speaker 2: then remember to do it because they were having those
39:07
Speaker 2: side and doesn't happen put it there.
39:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't.
39:10
Speaker 2: They don't need it anymore.
39:11
Speaker 3: They figured it out. They figured out now. But that's
39:14
Speaker 3: it's another thing when you're talking, Okay, I'm going to
39:16
Speaker 3: modify my aftermarket vehicle versus I'm gonna buy an OEM
39:21
Speaker 3: modified vehicle. Yeah, sure, there are certain advantages like that
39:24
Speaker 3: that you would have no clue on until something happened.
39:28
Speaker 3: You're the test dummy. Yeah, all of a sudden, we're
39:30
Speaker 3: versus HUSP being the test dummies. I'm putting them through
39:33
Speaker 3: their pases.
39:34
Speaker 2: So, Matt, what's some of your favorite kind of factory overlanders?
39:38
Speaker 2: So it because this is not meant to be. It
39:41
Speaker 2: sounds like an AV commercial because AV is exceptional. But
39:44
Speaker 2: Dave didn't pay any money to be here. We asked
39:46
Speaker 2: him to be here.
39:47
Speaker 1: I can prove that it's not an AV commercial. Dave,
39:50
Speaker 1: you suck. See I couldn't say that it was. But
39:55
Speaker 1: Matt's what's some of your favorite burnader right now? Is
39:58
Speaker 1: pretty cool?
39:59
Speaker 2: You have those.
40:00
Speaker 1: It has steel bumpers, it has locking differentials, It has
40:04
Speaker 1: a considerable payload. We we looked at mines like sixteen
40:06
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty pounds.
40:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fifteen hundred and eighty pounds in a wagon,
40:10
Speaker 2: that's pretty good. I think mines at sixteen it very well.
40:12
Speaker 1: Could yeah, yeah, which is considerable.
40:14
Speaker 2: Right.
40:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think for technical terrain JL three
40:18
Speaker 1: seventy from AV, I guess that's not factory.
40:21
Speaker 2: It's closet. It just depends on anniversary editions.
40:23
Speaker 3: Fact, it depends on what you're doing. Right from a
40:25
Speaker 3: body structure and overlanding standpoint, the Grenadier is pretty brilliant.
40:29
Speaker 3: The body structure, no rollbar, metal top, ambulance door, There
40:34
Speaker 3: is a massive amount of room. It's a big vehicles,
40:36
Speaker 3: square off prints.
40:38
Speaker 1: Very similar to the Jeep.
40:39
Speaker 3: It is, but it way more what I like about it. Wait,
40:41
Speaker 3: a y better usable space. The body structure is phenomenal. Yeah,
40:45
Speaker 3: but then yeah, if you get into technical okay, I
40:47
Speaker 3: want to go to mo app, it's not going to
40:49
Speaker 3: hold its own deep right, Yeah.
40:50
Speaker 2: The Jeep has a narrower body, same track, with the.
40:53
Speaker 3: Same narrow narrow you're going to less body damage right now,
40:57
Speaker 3: more articulation.
40:58
Speaker 1: The other truck I'm really excited for is the HD
41:01
Speaker 1: Bison you guys are now doing and both like a
41:04
Speaker 1: GMC and Chevy variant.
41:05
Speaker 3: That's a great just all around.
41:07
Speaker 1: Throw a throw like a Scout camper or a four
41:10
Speaker 1: real camper or something in that and just go.
41:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're if you just want to go use
41:15
Speaker 3: a truck and not have any issues and just have
41:18
Speaker 3: a very comfortable truck. I know everybody's listening. Oh, they're
41:20
Speaker 3: so expensive that I get it. But if you buy
41:22
Speaker 3: a truck and modify the same price, but you get
41:23
Speaker 3: all this engineering, yeah, and all the testing, so you
41:26
Speaker 3: have a lot of peace of mind in a completely
41:28
Speaker 3: unmodified heavy duty truck. It's a yeah. It's a nice
41:32
Speaker 3: package for sure.
41:33
Speaker 1: And I think there's the Tacoma Trail Hunter. We have
41:35
Speaker 1: to say just so it isn't.
41:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's got a good old man shocks on it,
41:40
Speaker 2: a pretty good rear bumper on it. Yeah, heavy thing,
41:43
Speaker 2: more like I've stopped making fun of Tacoma's Yeah, the
41:47
Speaker 2: new one's good.
41:47
Speaker 3: Yeah.
41:48
Speaker 2: Nine speed transmission really helped it. So there's that.
41:51
Speaker 1: I'm trying to go through my head and just not
41:53
Speaker 1: list all of the AV trucks.
41:55
Speaker 2: Another one is the Ford Ranger Raptor.
41:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.
41:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't ever want to take anything oway away
42:00
Speaker 2: from the other Raptors. Personally, I don't care for them
42:02
Speaker 2: that much. It's not my style of driving, even though
42:05
Speaker 2: the Raptor R is a lot of fun. But like
42:09
Speaker 2: a Ranger, Raptor is something you could drive every day.
42:11
Speaker 2: It's really good. Fourteen hundred pounds of payload front and
42:14
Speaker 2: rear lockers and it's fifty four thousand bucks. So it's
42:18
Speaker 2: a shocker little truck.
42:19
Speaker 3: A front locker.
42:20
Speaker 2: It does front and rear locker.
42:22
Speaker 3: I don't think it does.
42:22
Speaker 2: I think it's the Bison.
42:23
Speaker 3: No Bison has a front.
42:25
Speaker 2: I thought there are four, didn't Ranger, Raptor track promise.
42:28
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, you probably know better than.
42:30
Speaker 2: I because I found it by accident. I was going
42:33
Speaker 2: through the screens and I was like, front locker. It's weird.
42:35
Speaker 2: You have to go into the screen and then push
42:37
Speaker 2: the virtual button to lock the front.
42:39
Speaker 3: But okay, it's not a mechanical.
42:41
Speaker 2: No, it's a mechanical.
42:43
Speaker 3: It doesn't have a natural button.
42:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, which I don't care for. You have
42:46
Speaker 2: to go through a menu to get to it.
42:48
Speaker 3: But now I'll go look that up. The one that
42:51
Speaker 3: I thought was really impressive was the Australia market only
42:55
Speaker 3: Ranger Super Duty.
42:56
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, good time.
42:58
Speaker 3: That is pretty brilliana. I haven't seen one or driven one,
43:02
Speaker 3: so I don't know, but just the thought of that,
43:04
Speaker 3: because you have your go fast trucks, You've got your
43:06
Speaker 3: Ranger raptor, your Bronco rapt or your Raptor. Are those
43:10
Speaker 3: are not Let's say that the Raptor is a F
43:12
Speaker 3: one fifty, yet Ford has intentionally separated from It's not
43:17
Speaker 3: an F one fifty. Right. You go up to somebody
43:19
Speaker 3: and say, hey, I like your F one fifty, They're
43:21
Speaker 3: going to be offended. It's a Raptor, and it's a
43:24
Speaker 3: brilliant marketing move, but it is. Those are go fast trucks.
43:27
Speaker 3: They're pretty narrow focused. They do a good job at
43:30
Speaker 3: what they do. Whereas if you look at what GM
43:33
Speaker 3: is doing with their the Bison or the AAV series
43:37
Speaker 3: of trucks on all the platforms, it's not narrowly focused.
43:40
Speaker 3: It's really broadly focused. That's true, and so it's a
43:44
Speaker 3: different thing. Right, Are they as fast off road? I
43:47
Speaker 3: don't know. I'm going to say they shouldn't be. Even
43:49
Speaker 3: though the canyons or the Colora Canyon is pretty damn good,
43:52
Speaker 3: I don't I've never actually compared it with a like
43:55
Speaker 3: a Ranger Raptor. I bet it could hold its own,
43:57
Speaker 3: but it can if you get into the harder core
44:00
Speaker 3: off road stuff. I can guarantee you that the Bison
44:05
Speaker 3: with all his kids and all this stuff and thirty threes,
44:08
Speaker 3: thirty fives, and they even even the tuning on the engine, right,
44:12
Speaker 3: they've tuned it for eighty seven octane, whereas the Rangers
44:14
Speaker 3: ninety one minimum. Things like that. Right, if you're going
44:17
Speaker 3: to go around the world, you're gonna do the stuff
44:19
Speaker 3: we do. I think the broader market is a much
44:23
Speaker 3: better choice. But I think a lot of people still
44:26
Speaker 3: confuse like marketing with oh, this is GM's version of
44:30
Speaker 3: the Raptor, which it's not. It's a totally it's an
44:33
Speaker 3: overlan focused vehicle, all of them.
44:34
Speaker 2: They are, they're not.
44:36
Speaker 3: They're not go fast whereas Raptor. And this is where
44:39
Speaker 3: the media gets it wrong too. The media is this
44:41
Speaker 3: is a Raptor competitor, and no it's not. It's like
44:44
Speaker 3: the TRX might be a Raptor competitor.
44:46
Speaker 2: Not.
44:47
Speaker 3: Chevy doesn't really have they They've chosen not to get
44:49
Speaker 3: into the desert race go fast market per se, at
44:52
Speaker 3: least to this point. Yeah, they have their own race
44:54
Speaker 3: teams that actually do really well, but they don't for
44:57
Speaker 3: a wee standpoint, they don't go after that narrow niche
45:00
Speaker 3: southern California Arizona market.
45:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes sense. We just did our big
45:06
Speaker 2: mid size truck test and I was shocked at how good.
45:09
Speaker 2: All of the mid sizes are now think about it, Quartermaster, Ranger, Raptor,
45:14
Speaker 2: a GMC AT four X, Aevar Tacoma Trail Hunter, Gladiator
45:22
Speaker 2: Max Toe package which gets you over seventeen hundred pounds
45:25
Speaker 2: of payload. Like, the vehicles are better than they've ever been.
45:29
Speaker 2: At the end of the day. For the editor's choice,
45:31
Speaker 2: I chose the GMC eighty four x AEV because it
45:35
Speaker 2: did everything. There was a broad window, whereas every other
45:40
Speaker 2: vehicle had something that was a compromise or a more
45:43
Speaker 2: significant compromise like the Max toe package, Gladiator, no rere locker.
45:47
Speaker 2: So there was something that stood out that was problematic
45:51
Speaker 2: in the vehicle except for the eight four X and
45:53
Speaker 2: the Quartermaster. Despite how much I love it, that's what
45:56
Speaker 2: I drive every day right now. It's one hundred thousand dollars,
45:59
Speaker 2: so that's a very big investment for people. So I
46:01
Speaker 2: had to be sensitive to the thing. You could buy an.
46:02
Speaker 1: AT four X and gently used av wrangler.
46:08
Speaker 2: Or or you buy an eight four X you put
46:10
Speaker 2: a go fast on the top of it and then
46:12
Speaker 2: you drive it around the world for the same money.
46:14
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
46:15
Speaker 3: The Ineos is and they're a passionate yes, so you
46:18
Speaker 3: got it. How can you not love the esthetics and
46:21
Speaker 3: the whole you guys both have them, right.
46:23
Speaker 1: It's very scotty, they're very I will really like mine.
46:26
Speaker 1: I haven't connected with a vehicle like that since my
46:29
Speaker 1: first land ruper.
46:30
Speaker 3: But like every niche vehicle, and it's almost like what
46:32
Speaker 3: in the human psyche, what makes a niche vehicle is
46:35
Speaker 3: other people aren't willing to put up with the turning
46:38
Speaker 3: radis sure, the they're all of one comfortable position, at
46:42
Speaker 3: least for me, right, But that's what makes a niche
46:44
Speaker 3: vehicle niche. That's what makes people like them because other
46:46
Speaker 3: people can't won't have them.
46:49
Speaker 2: They bucked the trend, right.
46:50
Speaker 3: They're standing out a little bit by having this vehicle
46:53
Speaker 3: that most people just wouldn't do. Yeah, and that's what
46:55
Speaker 3: makes it cool, right at the end of the day
46:57
Speaker 3: that even a wrangler, same way, right, wranglers not super comfortable.
47:00
Speaker 3: They've gotten better over the years. But if you go back,
47:03
Speaker 3: somebody drove jeep was like a little weird, right, Yeah.
47:07
Speaker 1: Wer' is an interesting spot right now, Like they're getting
47:10
Speaker 1: impacked by from every angle, angle, from every angle.
47:14
Speaker 3: Yeah they are. And they used to have no competition now,
47:15
Speaker 3: they have a lot of competition the past. Yeah. This
47:19
Speaker 3: is interesting honestly, because the past leadership came in, they
47:21
Speaker 3: kept raising the price. People dealt with it for a while,
47:25
Speaker 3: and then there was a very sudden and dramatic shift
47:29
Speaker 3: away from it because of the pricing, in my opinion.
47:32
Speaker 3: But the good news is they've gotten a lot of
47:35
Speaker 3: leadership changes. They've gotten a lot of the old guard
47:37
Speaker 3: back in there. I'm really enthusiastic about what the.
47:41
Speaker 2: How do we want to mark Allen out of retirement? Mark,
47:44
Speaker 2: if you're listening to this, we're all going to chip
47:46
Speaker 2: in some dollars to bring you back out of retirement.
47:49
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. He a lot of good engineers too. That's
47:52
Speaker 3: the part that's inangible because you don't see them, you
47:55
Speaker 3: don't hear about them. But a lot of good engineers. Yeah.
47:58
Speaker 2: Some of them ended up at Scout, ended up.
48:00
Speaker 3: At Scouts, They've ended up at Rivia miners and engineers
48:03
Speaker 3: and then ended up at yeah, several other manufacturers. And
48:07
Speaker 3: look at the Bronco body structure. If you look at
48:09
Speaker 3: the body structure without without exterior sheet metal, if you're
48:12
Speaker 3: just like open the rear tailgate and look in with
48:14
Speaker 3: no carpet and no everything. It's hard to tell it's
48:16
Speaker 3: not a wrangler. It's very similar. Same suppliers, right, same
48:19
Speaker 3: suppliers are making the hard top, same supliers are doing
48:21
Speaker 3: the sheet metals, the frames. It ends up. A lot
48:24
Speaker 3: of these trucks nowadays are pretty homogenious. They have different
48:27
Speaker 3: exterior styling. But even Toileta, right, Toyota has this legendary
48:32
Speaker 3: legacy of durability. But I think my personal taste is
48:36
Speaker 3: that pretty much change about six seven and anything after, right,
48:40
Speaker 3: because then they became more Oh, we'll use this steering
48:43
Speaker 3: gear from this company.
48:44
Speaker 2: We'll use this from Bosh, We're gonna use this.
48:46
Speaker 3: It's now it's every other truck, right, And luckily all
48:49
Speaker 3: cars are pretty good these days. But it's funny that
48:52
Speaker 3: the legacy still proceeds even though it's not really deserved
48:57
Speaker 3: the reputations there. But it doesn't. It's just every other
48:59
Speaker 3: truck and all good. Honestly.
49:01
Speaker 2: That's the upside for the consumer is if you go
49:04
Speaker 2: buy an eight four X, you're buying a great truck.
49:06
Speaker 2: You go buy a Tacoma, you're buying a great truck.
49:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting. Like in the heavy duty we have
49:11
Speaker 3: I've recently purchased. I have the Chevyes, I have the Rams,
49:14
Speaker 3: and I recently purchased a Ford, just to baseline everything.
49:18
Speaker 3: And it's interesting to see how the different manufacturers, how
49:21
Speaker 3: they approach things, and how they their take on different
49:24
Speaker 3: things and who they're going for, who they're aiming towards.
49:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
49:27
Speaker 1: Sure, I still like the Ford HD trucks the best.
49:31
Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know if that's what
49:32
Speaker 1: I would buy right now. Yeah, there's a lot to
49:35
Speaker 1: like about them. It's their drying train is good. Yeah,
49:37
Speaker 1: the trick seven motor is like yeah.
49:41
Speaker 3: No, So that's it's an interesting thing. And I'll try
49:44
Speaker 3: and stay independent of the brand because everybody has their
49:47
Speaker 3: own thoughts. But yeah, customer facing the Ford is really good.
49:51
Speaker 3: When you get in it, it's all, this thing is
49:53
Speaker 3: crazy fast. Does it need to be? No? Does it
49:56
Speaker 3: tow any better? No? Does it? Is it fast like
49:58
Speaker 3: for an unloaded driver just gets in at the dealership.
50:02
Speaker 3: It's impressive.
50:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
50:03
Speaker 3: The Ram has finally caught up with the eight.
50:05
Speaker 2: Speed, and I just drove that and it was great.
50:08
Speaker 3: It is great. It's great. The Chevy has this essentially
50:10
Speaker 3: the same ten speed as the Ford, and it's great too.
50:12
Speaker 3: They're all like, all those trucks are really good in
50:15
Speaker 3: terms of power, now that Ram's finally cut up with
50:18
Speaker 3: eight speed, but they're all really impressive in terms of
50:21
Speaker 3: customer facing. The interior on the Ford is very good.
50:24
Speaker 3: They are facing. If if I put my engineering hat
50:28
Speaker 3: on and I opened the hood of a Ford, I'm like, oh,
50:31
Speaker 3: this thing is more like Bolksway. It's built for assembly.
50:34
Speaker 3: It's built for speed of assembly. What is not bill
50:37
Speaker 3: for as maintenance.
50:38
Speaker 2: Ter Maybe even the aftermarket can a longevity.
50:41
Speaker 1: You identify components on the Commans engine and you could
50:44
Speaker 1: work on it. You could not access it. Like when
50:49
Speaker 1: I say I was just saying how I loved the
50:50
Speaker 1: Ford six seven, mine blew up, So it had to
50:53
Speaker 1: be It wasn't the problem though, it wasn't an OI problem.
50:56
Speaker 1: It was not surprisingly that motor actually made it hundreds
50:59
Speaker 1: of miles home anyways. But to replace that engine, the
51:03
Speaker 1: entire front of the vehicle had to come off. Normally
51:06
Speaker 1: they would just raise the cab off. But you have
51:08
Speaker 1: a giant house on top. But I have a house
51:10
Speaker 1: on top of it. But the entire truck had come apart.
51:13
Speaker 1: It is like shoehorned in there. It's so complex. There's
51:16
Speaker 1: two cooling systems independent of each other.
51:19
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and a lot of little plastic fittings that
51:22
Speaker 3: you know over time and heat soaking. It's built for assembly.
51:25
Speaker 3: If you're planning to keep that truck for more than
51:27
Speaker 3: five years, you know you're gonna that's gonna be a challenge.
51:31
Speaker 2: Consumer wouldn't know.
51:32
Speaker 3: You go to the dealership from the consumer side, you
51:35
Speaker 3: look at the power, you look at the interior. Extra
51:37
Speaker 3: styling is what it is. That's a matter of personal taste.
51:40
Speaker 3: It's within millimeters of the RAM, the ford in the RAM,
51:44
Speaker 3: or like within millimeters of each other. Chevy obviously has
51:46
Speaker 3: a different front suspension which lays out different heights, and
51:49
Speaker 3: sure a lot of different architecture. But then unless you're
51:54
Speaker 3: the engineer and you look at the wiring, Let's say
51:56
Speaker 3: the Ford wiring is crazy, there's like sprouts sticking out everywhere.
52:00
Speaker 3: Trying to trace down problems would be challenging, whereas the
52:03
Speaker 3: RAM is very simple for so for like longevity. Personally,
52:07
Speaker 3: I would still go with the RAM, even though the
52:09
Speaker 3: suspension's identical. Essentially, although even when you start dialing in
52:13
Speaker 3: the suspension and actual choices. The vacuum hubs on the
52:16
Speaker 3: Ford great initially again customer facing. They've got manual hubs
52:21
Speaker 3: that looks cool, people don't really understand maybe what they are,
52:24
Speaker 3: but goes back to you like your granddad's forward total
52:26
Speaker 3: got locking hubs, but then that you're relying on vacuum
52:29
Speaker 3: most of the time, which is a failure potential failure point.
52:33
Speaker 3: So it just comes down to, like these things that
52:35
Speaker 3: are customer facing, maybe good, maybe bad. Really depends on
52:39
Speaker 3: what you're looking to do. If you just have a
52:40
Speaker 3: truck for five years for it's pretty.
52:42
Speaker 1: Nice, but because you're building the prospectors with say eight speed.
52:47
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, we just went into production with the twenty
52:49
Speaker 3: five with the eight speed, like that's last week. Yeah,
52:53
Speaker 3: that makes a big difference.
52:54
Speaker 2: So they have Davis. I did the Davis Dam with
52:56
Speaker 2: that truck like pulling it was literally pulling a house.
53:00
Speaker 2: It was amazing.
53:00
Speaker 3: And if the funny dage you got back last year
53:02
Speaker 3: to the RAM with the Eiesen trans which is essentially
53:05
Speaker 3: a toy of transmission six speed. It's a truck transmission
53:08
Speaker 3: like a box truck transmission. Driving it around every day
53:12
Speaker 3: unloaded terrible, right, it's clunky, It takes forever to go,
53:17
Speaker 3: don't pull out in front of somebody. But when you
53:20
Speaker 3: get start towing with it. If you once you get
53:22
Speaker 3: over twenty thousand pounds, that combination is awesome, right and
53:26
Speaker 3: you're ripping past other trucks. It toes great when but
53:31
Speaker 3: it's at that narrow window, right, and that's where the
53:34
Speaker 3: ten speed really benefits to the consumer facing thing when
53:38
Speaker 3: they just go to a dealership or they're just driving
53:40
Speaker 3: every day. The Chevy and the Ford have been from
53:42
Speaker 3: now for a while now, they've been way faster and
53:44
Speaker 3: they feel like a normal truck, where the RAM is
53:46
Speaker 3: always felt like a truck, like a truck, But that's
53:49
Speaker 3: changing with the new z F eight speed, which is.
53:51
Speaker 1: Thought the Enomos the most comfortable, but the RAM has
53:55
Speaker 1: the most. It feels like the most comfortable. Twenty five
53:57
Speaker 1: hundreds of their rare air now.
53:59
Speaker 3: They're all almost all those trucks are comfortable. As a
54:01
Speaker 3: matter of personal preference, what you like for the inside,
54:03
Speaker 3: what you like for the outside. The power is all
54:05
Speaker 3: good for what we do. I have my personal preference.
54:09
Speaker 2: Let's go through that. If you were to pick your
54:11
Speaker 2: favorite factory Overlander right now, what would you.
54:13
Speaker 3: Pick factory and these are ones that we do too, or.
54:19
Speaker 2: And you could pick anything you want.
54:21
Speaker 3: I don't know. It depends on what you're doing, and
54:23
Speaker 3: I do a lot of different things. Lately, I've been
54:25
Speaker 3: towing a lot of skid steers and excavators. Rounds by
54:27
Speaker 3: the gm HD would be top of my list. The
54:31
Speaker 3: Ford Tremor package, which is their factory overland or off
54:36
Speaker 3: road or guy and really it's a leveling kit and
54:38
Speaker 3: some a little bit bigger wheel entire maybe a rear locker.
54:41
Speaker 2: I think rear locker. You can get an optional GIT
54:43
Speaker 2: a rear locker on the Ford you have and the
54:45
Speaker 2: RAM now and the RAM now yep.
54:47
Speaker 3: Anyway, the Ford doesn't have as much suspension articulation as
54:50
Speaker 3: a RAM. But then I tend to get rams in
54:52
Speaker 3: a lot like I tend to get heavy dy trucks
54:54
Speaker 3: in a lot of weird situations that most people don't.
54:57
Speaker 3: For hardcore off roading, I still prefer the RAM. If
54:59
Speaker 3: you just a guy who modified a modified round, I
55:02
Speaker 3: should say if you're just if you just want a
55:05
Speaker 3: truck that works every day, and you know it's hard
55:08
Speaker 3: to beat the Chevy, so.
55:10
Speaker 1: For you, it'd be the twenty five hundred. The GMC,
55:14
Speaker 1: it's a pretty good all around truck.
55:15
Speaker 3: Like you can hook a skid steer to it or
55:17
Speaker 3: an excavator and it doesn't know it's there. It can
55:19
Speaker 3: off road reasonably difficult terrain, more difficult than most, like
55:24
Speaker 3: ninety nine people are going to put it in, put
55:26
Speaker 3: it camp er in it. You can, and you have
55:28
Speaker 3: all that confidence knowing that it was fully tested.
55:31
Speaker 2: I think for me, and it's a factory overliner, except
55:34
Speaker 2: there's only one in existence. It'd be that regular cab GMC.
55:38
Speaker 3: Oh, the one in our lobby.
55:40
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that truck turned out so good. And the
55:44
Speaker 2: fact that you have the improved ride quality because I
55:46
Speaker 2: drive lots of miles off road. Yeah, and that's where
55:49
Speaker 2: like a tremor really falls short, is ride quality. It's
55:52
Speaker 2: a significant difference from the GMC. So I think it
55:55
Speaker 2: would either be that regular cab that you guys built
55:58
Speaker 2: with the lockers and everything, or it'd be the Core Master,
56:00
Speaker 2: which I'm really enjoyed. So one of those two.
56:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, that GMC is cool. Unfortunately, that was a concept
56:06
Speaker 3: car and we could do it. The problem was the
56:09
Speaker 3: way GM's done their electronics. We couldn't figure out this
56:12
Speaker 3: speedometer without their involvement. Sure, and then it comes down
56:16
Speaker 3: to the lawyers and they just would not give us
56:18
Speaker 3: a speedometer calibration. So that's why we don't have a
56:21
Speaker 3: GM on forties. We did just introduce thirty seven inch
56:24
Speaker 3: kit so you can take if you buy an AEV
56:27
Speaker 3: or Bison now heavy duty, you can get a pretty
56:31
Speaker 3: small kit and you can put thirty sevens on it
56:33
Speaker 3: with no suspension mods.
56:34
Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty cool.
56:35
Speaker 3: So that would probably be my pick would be. Yeah,
56:39
Speaker 3: the Bison with the seven side of that truck is
56:42
Speaker 3: the thirty three.
56:42
Speaker 2: So thing is thirty five, thirty five directory the fifteen
56:46
Speaker 2: hundreds of the thirty threes.
56:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, the heavy duty though comes with thirty five. Oh
56:50
Speaker 3: and you can basically put thirty sevens on with this
56:52
Speaker 3: kit that we just introduced, which kind of and honestly,
56:55
Speaker 3: you can put thirty sevens on it right away. But
56:57
Speaker 3: if you buy our kit then you still have full turn,
57:00
Speaker 3: full downs tool travel with no issues. And we also
57:03
Speaker 3: did a wheel for it that pushes the wheel out
57:04
Speaker 3: a little bit just for a little bit improved looks,
57:07
Speaker 3: and that would that's a.
57:09
Speaker 2: It's such a sick truck, such a sick truck.
57:12
Speaker 3: Awesome truck.
57:14
Speaker 2: We think Matt.
57:15
Speaker 3: Grened dear.
57:17
Speaker 2: If it wasn't the love your truck. I love that.
57:20
Speaker 2: I genuinely genuinely love it.
57:22
Speaker 1: I'm geeking out with it. It's so easy to modify.
57:25
Speaker 1: It's there's wiring channels run, yes, forever aftermarket wiring, there's
57:30
Speaker 1: grounds everywhere.
57:31
Speaker 3: It was made for this market. It's what Wrangler has.
57:34
Speaker 3: They lost their way on that. Yeah, going with this
57:38
Speaker 3: kind of commercial, Southern California kind of market.
57:44
Speaker 1: Makes the Wrangler feel like a toy to me. That's
57:48
Speaker 1: just like my opinion. But that's also makes it Wrangler great.
57:50
Speaker 1: They performed so much better. But I don't care about
57:53
Speaker 1: the removable top anymore. Like ever since they went to
57:56
Speaker 1: four doors, like five people have ever taken them off.
57:59
Speaker 2: You know, I think you can have it as the
58:00
Speaker 2: soft top and it's so nice.
58:02
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, sure, the top. Yeah, there's the problem is
58:06
Speaker 3: that though.
58:06
Speaker 1: The problem is that the Wrangler is so expensive. Now
58:09
Speaker 1: that's true, and there's a spread like a Wranglers has
58:12
Speaker 1: an MSRP over one hundred thousand.
58:14
Speaker 2: Dollars of a VA.
58:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, I think v it's great, cool whatever,
58:18
Speaker 1: not that fast like, it's fast, it's fun pretty fast.
58:23
Speaker 1: But is it one hundred is it one hundred and
58:25
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars car?
58:26
Speaker 3: No, but I'd say that's like this, that's a niche car.
58:30
Speaker 3: That for collectors that it was cool that they did
58:32
Speaker 3: For collectors for sure, for some for enthusias, I will
58:35
Speaker 3: only say collectors, I'll say enthusiasts, it was cool that
58:37
Speaker 3: they did that. Yeah, if you go back to the
58:39
Speaker 3: four bye has a lot of technology, a four bay
58:42
Speaker 3: it's funny. I just wrote an email to our company
58:44
Speaker 3: internally and it's called why the four bye is brilliant? Yeah,
58:48
Speaker 3: and I don't think a lot of people understand the
58:50
Speaker 3: advantages of a four bye, And even within our company
58:53
Speaker 3: people didn't know.
58:54
Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, yeah, Tavia had one love it.
58:58
Speaker 3: Did you guys know that one of the mode or
59:00
Speaker 3: so there's two motors on it. One of the motors
59:01
Speaker 3: replaces the torquenverter in transmission's right, So if you think
59:05
Speaker 3: about that, there's your number one failure point of an
59:06
Speaker 3: automatic transmission, especially off road, especially slow speed off road, right,
59:11
Speaker 3: people not using four low. But now by replacing that
59:14
Speaker 3: torque converter, it's pretty cool. It's not a lot of
59:16
Speaker 3: I think people think it's like some sort of like
59:18
Speaker 3: crazy technologies you can't repair underneath and everything. It's really not.
59:22
Speaker 3: It's like they put the they took the torquenverter number
59:25
Speaker 3: one failure point and replace it with an electric motor.
59:28
Speaker 2: So that isn't it like a one hundred horsepower electric
59:31
Speaker 2: motor or something like that.
59:31
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm not sure. Numbers off the top of
59:34
Speaker 3: my head. And then then they have this alternator motor,
59:36
Speaker 3: alternative slash motor up on the motor. And then part
59:40
Speaker 3: of my email was to my internal team was like, guys,
59:42
Speaker 3: if you live out west, think about this. A lot
59:45
Speaker 3: of towns are in valleys, so you're just driving around
59:47
Speaker 3: all day in town and then you and then if
59:50
Speaker 3: you go somewhere else, it's a long distance. So you
59:53
Speaker 3: know this, here's the hybrid. It works out great. Never
59:55
Speaker 3: use gas and then you use gas and you don't
59:57
Speaker 3: even have to think about it. You just golitude right.
1:00:01
Speaker 3: The force on their turbo and the electric motor, neither
1:00:03
Speaker 3: of them are affected by seat could carry. If you
1:00:07
Speaker 3: look at the three six two undred eighty horse five
1:00:10
Speaker 3: thousand feet, it's a three percent per thousand feet. So
1:00:13
Speaker 3: you're down fifteen or five thousand feet, you're down fifteen percent,
1:00:17
Speaker 3: ten thousand feet, you're down thirty percent.
1:00:20
Speaker 2: Lead bill, you're feeling it?
1:00:21
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, are even truck you TALLO? Right, you're down whatever,
1:00:24
Speaker 3: twenty four percent or whatever that is. It adds up
1:00:27
Speaker 3: really fast. The four bay doesn't experience those issues.
1:00:30
Speaker 1: Turn the air conditioning on that through their app absolutely,
1:00:35
Speaker 1: and also because that's the nice thing is cooling down
1:00:37
Speaker 1: your car turned the electric electricity.
1:00:40
Speaker 3: You can use the electricity to turn it on.
1:00:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do that, and there we're just going
1:00:43
Speaker 2: off road and shutting off the engine. You can go
1:00:46
Speaker 2: into electric only and you've got twenty miles of range
1:00:50
Speaker 2: off road, you're in low range. It's got a it
1:00:53
Speaker 2: works like a regular jeep yep. You can left foot
1:00:55
Speaker 2: break with it. It'll climb any ledge that a normal
1:00:58
Speaker 2: jeep will climb. It doesn't have any of those limitsations
1:01:00
Speaker 2: that electric vehicles have sometimes off road regular transmission and
1:01:04
Speaker 2: you're in it's silent.
1:01:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's so great and so on
1:01:08
Speaker 3: the road it's fast. Yeah.
1:01:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not four hundred and something horsepower, not V eight, but.
1:01:12
Speaker 3: It's it's right there. It's better than the three six.
1:01:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like mid fives zero to sixty and the
1:01:17
Speaker 2: V eight is high fours, so it's barely a second slower.
1:01:21
Speaker 3: That's fast. To be fast enough for jeep, oh for sure.
1:01:23
Speaker 3: But to get rid of the number one failure point
1:01:25
Speaker 3: in transmission and to not be affected by altitude if
1:01:29
Speaker 3: you're out west, and because of the nature of those towns,
1:01:31
Speaker 3: those are major advantages. Oh yeah, because a lot of
1:01:34
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, I don't want to plug it in,
1:01:35
Speaker 3: don't just use Just put it gas and it'll charge
1:01:37
Speaker 3: itself and it'll do its own thing and you don't
1:01:39
Speaker 3: have to worry about it. Just it's better.
1:01:41
Speaker 2: But if you do have a plug in your garage,
1:01:42
Speaker 2: you wake up in the morning, you go get coffee
1:01:44
Speaker 2: and you've used no gas.
1:01:46
Speaker 1: And also think of the potential of the platform. The
1:01:49
Speaker 1: energy density of the batteries is increasing. You're going to
1:01:52
Speaker 1: get more range out of that. I think if I
1:01:55
Speaker 1: could have a plug in hybrid with one hundred miles
1:01:58
Speaker 1: of range, that would be perfect.
1:02:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I haven't driven to Toida here. It's great, yeah,
1:02:03
Speaker 3: but it's that newer technology is coming online.
1:02:05
Speaker 2: The range Drover has the best sixty sixty mile range
1:02:09
Speaker 2: plus fast charging. Yeah, because really it's that one.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: Hundred kilometer standard that the car companies are trying to
1:02:15
Speaker 1: get to one hundred miles, and we could be a wish, but.
1:02:18
Speaker 3: If I look at a jeep, if I can use
1:02:20
Speaker 3: electric to get going, that's most of your zero to
1:02:24
Speaker 3: getting on the highway speed. That's you're using a lot
1:02:26
Speaker 3: more energy to do that than to go down the highway.
1:02:28
Speaker 3: So if you can use the electricity to do that
1:02:30
Speaker 3: and then regenerate it, and that's why they get what
1:02:32
Speaker 3: twenty four miles a gallon with Rubicon tires.
1:02:35
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, Tavia's jeep on thirty fives. We plug it
1:02:39
Speaker 2: in every single night. Most of our errands are done
1:02:41
Speaker 2: in electric only, and that will consistently show twenty six
1:02:45
Speaker 2: twenty eight miles to the gallon average.
1:02:47
Speaker 3: It's really impressive.
1:02:48
Speaker 2: It's insane.
1:02:48
Speaker 3: And then there's some like the RAM charger, the new
1:02:50
Speaker 3: RAM charger.
1:02:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't driven that yet.
1:02:52
Speaker 3: I have going to come out, yeah, yeah, and it's
1:02:56
Speaker 3: that's some really cool technology, right.
1:02:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's basically a Pennistar yep as a generator.
1:03:02
Speaker 3: Two thousand and r pm, So you're not really going
1:03:04
Speaker 3: to hear it and again, altitude, it's not that big
1:03:08
Speaker 3: a deal. And then you've got six hundred and fifty
1:03:09
Speaker 3: horse and six fifty torque crazy in a halftn truck.
1:03:13
Speaker 3: That's going to be Yeah, but it's expensive. That's why.
1:03:17
Speaker 3: That's why the factories don't like hybrid. Right, it's cheaper
1:03:20
Speaker 3: to go one way or the other. Yeah, that makes sense.
1:03:22
Speaker 3: It's not it's to do both is obviously very cost
1:03:24
Speaker 3: effect or not very cost effective.
1:03:28
Speaker 1: It was a very hair talking about jeeps, and I'm like, dang,
1:03:32
Speaker 1: I should not have sold my LJ. Yes, you should
1:03:35
Speaker 1: have sold your LJ because now you have your granadeer
1:03:37
Speaker 1: and you're happy, like you don't need a jeep and
1:03:39
Speaker 1: your Grenadier, but I want it. But how has that
1:03:43
Speaker 1: worked it for you in the past. Totally fine. Your
1:03:49
Speaker 1: Granadier is perfect. That thing is so sweet. That thing
1:03:51
Speaker 1: is so Matt Scott.
1:03:52
Speaker 2: I love it.
1:03:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is definitely you.
1:03:56
Speaker 2: This is a great conversation.
1:03:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny. Jim at all Okay left me his
1:04:00
Speaker 3: Grenadier last year for a couple of weeks while it
1:04:03
Speaker 3: was shipping around and they didn't drive it, and I did.
1:04:06
Speaker 3: I drove it around that's cool. At the time, nobody
1:04:08
Speaker 3: really had one, so it's cool to have the only one,
1:04:11
Speaker 3: you know, round. But I did find myself. I drove
1:04:14
Speaker 3: it for a couple of days and then I was like, yeah,
1:04:17
Speaker 3: yeah they knew, Yeah I did. And I was like, man,
1:04:20
Speaker 3: if I could put this body on a jail chassis
1:04:24
Speaker 3: and get the suspension and the steering and the handling qualities,
1:04:28
Speaker 3: and then if it only for me, it wasn't comfortable,
1:04:30
Speaker 3: like id lumbar, the seat, the arm rest, the arm
1:04:35
Speaker 3: rest is low for me. I was just like, I
1:04:38
Speaker 3: guess maybe I'm just getting too old for that anymore.
1:04:40
Speaker 2: No, but that's that's the cool thing is that there's
1:04:43
Speaker 2: more than one option.
1:04:44
Speaker 1: I think it's so hard for a car to have emotion. Yeah,
1:04:47
Speaker 1: that grenadeer does that really well. Yeah, honestly it is.
1:04:51
Speaker 1: I hated mine for the first two months, like the
1:04:53
Speaker 1: steering drove me crazy, like I couldn't get comfortable beating
1:04:58
Speaker 1: the constant clicking and beeping, And then I don't know
1:05:01
Speaker 1: what happens, something just but then I kept it's like
1:05:04
Speaker 1: the car that you walk away from when you look back. Yeah,
1:05:07
Speaker 1: it kept growing on me, and now I'm just like
1:05:10
Speaker 1: I love it.
1:05:11
Speaker 3: That's often the case of the cars that do have
1:05:13
Speaker 3: some emotion. A they have problems that you're willing to
1:05:16
Speaker 3: deal with, then nobody else is and that's why you
1:05:18
Speaker 3: have it, so you've earned it. But generally they're not perfect.
1:05:22
Speaker 3: The ones that have the most emotions. I have a viper.
1:05:25
Speaker 3: They have a terrible car to drive around on the street. Obviously,
1:05:28
Speaker 3: it's still the one. It's the one I'll never sell,
1:05:30
Speaker 3: the one that still makes my handshake if I take
1:05:32
Speaker 3: it on a spirited run, makes.
1:05:34
Speaker 2: You smile, yeah, and I around look back at it
1:05:36
Speaker 2: when you walk away from the car.
1:05:38
Speaker 3: Stunning, right, is stunning, for sure, stunning, but it's there's
1:05:41
Speaker 3: very few of them. You never see another one. It's
1:05:43
Speaker 3: absolutely terrifying, you know, even now, And even though I
1:05:46
Speaker 3: trust the car, it's terrifying to drive. It should be
1:05:49
Speaker 3: on a track, Yeah, when it's not on a track,
1:05:51
Speaker 3: it does not. It's it's terrible.
1:05:54
Speaker 1: You're attempting fate. And here you thought flying was dangerous.
1:05:57
Speaker 1: Drive a viper, yeah, or like a sport bike, yeah, sure,
1:06:01
Speaker 1: it's got the same issues.
1:06:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:06:03
Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, I tell people, yeah, it's just like
1:06:05
Speaker 3: it's motorcycles. Like you don't want to drive it at night,
1:06:07
Speaker 3: you don't want to drive more than two hours, and
1:06:09
Speaker 3: that's better on a track road. Yeah sure, but it's
1:06:13
Speaker 3: also why I love it.
1:06:14
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Yeah, thanks everybody. Yeah, this was so great.
1:06:18
Speaker 2: Thank you Dave for always coming on the podcast. We
1:06:21
Speaker 2: appreciate it. We get such great feedback when you're on here,
1:06:24
Speaker 2: and I learned again several things today.
1:06:26
Speaker 3: Good, good, anytime.
1:06:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, we appreciate you. Dave cool.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Overin Journal podcast. We'll see
1:06:32
Speaker 1: you next time.
1:06:33
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody,