Latest / Partnerships Unraveled / 110 - Michelle Ragusa-McBain - Building Stronger Partnerships

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110 - Michelle Ragusa-McBain - Building Stronger Partnerships · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships, and channel on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My name is Alex Whitford and I'm the VP of Revenue here at Chanext, and this week I'm excited to welcome our special guest Michelle.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Good, I'm doing great.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Alex, how are you doing today?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's late on a Friday and we're about to have a lovely channel conversation, so I'm doing great.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Alex, how are you doing today?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's late on a Friday and we're about to have a lovely channel conversation, so I'm in a great mood.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, great way to end a Friday Start your weekend?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly that.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe, michelle, for the uninitiated, it'd be great if you could give us a little rundown of who you are and what you do.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Sure, my name is Michelle Ragusa-McBean.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I am the VP of Global Channels at SonicWall and I've been there almost a year and a half, so I'm very excited to be there, but I've been in the technology channel for about 20 years now, which is hard to believe, but an amazing place to be.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I feel that the channel is one of the most wonderful communities.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Whether you're a vendor or partner and customer, we all work together to help one another and lift each other up, and I spend a lot of time on the road working with a lot of different people, and so they're.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: They become my second family, which I really appreciate and enjoy.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: And 20 years in the industry, the channel I've only been in at 10.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So you are doubling me.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But I've seen channel go through its changes and maybe there's pre COVID and post-COVID and the market has changed.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Sonicwall just relaunched its partner program and you've made some changes to ensure that you stay as relevant as possible in today's market.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear about some of those changes.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that brought me to SonicWall was our CEO and our CRO.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: So Bob Van Kirk and Jason Carter have words that they use, which are not just words but actions, and they call it outside in.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Listening Seems easy enough.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I think we all should be doing it, but for whatever reason, it doesn't always occur, and so the premise of this is that we won't create anything in a vacuum without getting partner feedback, without understanding their needs about taking good to great and really understanding our challenges or their challenges with us and how we can improve those.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: So we do that through a number of different ways.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: We have partner advisory councils, we have technical advisory councils around the world.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: We also go to a lot of events and have a lot of forums where we talk to our partners QBRs and we help listen and learn what's working, what's not, what can we do to make this the best it can be for you, to make us the best vendor that you work with, and in that, in our surveys and our conversations, what came back were a few key things, and so we took all of that feedback and we incorporated it into our new, secure first program, which we launched globally in February of this past year, and so what we did was a few things.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: One, we lowered the rebate threshold.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: We know that more partners need to reinvest back into their business, and so to give more partners access to that, we made it available to them.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: We're very grateful for the partnerships that we have.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: We're 100% channel, which means everything we do is with our channel partners, by our side, and without them we'd be nothing, and it's very important for every vendor out there to read and listen to.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: That is that they have choice.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Our partners have choice, and you not only have to have best-in-class products, which is sort of table stakes, but you have to be easy to do business with.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: You have to have best in class products, which is sort of table stakes, but you have to be easy to do business with.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: You have to help them be more profitable and be more successful, and so, in addition to that, we started accruing market development funds, something we have not done in the past.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: We had proposal based.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Not everyone had received it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Now, depending on your level whether you're silver, gold or platinum you will, in fact, receive market development funds so you can co-brand with us, co-market, co-innovate, co-sell, and we will do it side by side.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: So we have events in a box.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: We're running some Fastlane events.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: We're doing 27 in Europe right now, we're doing quite a few in North America right now and several in APJ right now and so it's very exciting to see these kind of done in tandem with our partners, side by side.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: In addition to that flexible consumption right, that was a big one.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: A lot of partners said okay, michelle, I am also a VAR, but I'm also an MSP or vice versa, whatever the predominant or secondary as their preference.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And as I go on this transition, I might sell a firewall and a switch and an access point as a point product, but I also might want recurring revenue and stickiness with my customers and they might pay me monthly, but I have to pay you annually.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: So can we change that?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Can we make it one program?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And so we did so.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: We took SecureFirst program.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: We include it now.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: The service provider program.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: So if you're an MSP out there and you're not Cancel any time, no contracts, no commitments.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: We're going to stand by our word and laurels and not lock people in, because we have to deliver excellent service.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: That's what you deserve.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: So those are just some of the key features of things that we changed.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: See, I love the sort of confidence and clarity where you're talking through specific features that you've changed based on feedback.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: We've had a few AWS leaders on the podcast in the last few weeks some unreleased and they also have this philosophy and I can just see this clarity of thought that comes from.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Oh no, this isn't our assumption.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: We've spoken to hundreds, thousands of customers, of partners, and we know this is what they want, and once you have that data, sort of accurate steps become really easy decisions to take.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, I mean.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: And that's you know, whether it's product, whether it's support, whether it's engineering, whether it's, you know, marketing or sales.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: All of our functions had one goal.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Our CEO said I want you all to come to our leadership meeting in Salt Lake City, Utah, and I want you to think what will make our partners' lives better, what will make them more profitable, what will make it easier for them To have a CEO think about our partners as the channel leader, to think about them like that.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: There's no greater gift because he understands, and that's a top-down, bottoms-up.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: We have amazing people throughout the organization really focused on this, but we've made innovations in customer support and other places that needed improvement, and sometimes it's just addressing what is the elephant in the room, what is okay but could be better as a Band-Aid fix, or what's something that we need to completely blow up and start again and taking that into consideration for our partners, based upon their feedback.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: We also have partners that have been with SonicWell for 10, 20, 30 years.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: In my 20 years of working in this industry, that is very rare.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I do not find partners that are that loyal as we have and I ask them sometimes why do you stay?
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of different reasons right, like great products at a low TCO or great support or great sales or engineering teams that they partner with, but at the end of the day, I think it's very relationship driven.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I think we have a lot of care for our partners and that comes across in how we create our programs and our products and our people, and that comes across in how we create our programs and our products and our people, and that's really important to us.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: And so, Michelle, you're talking about how you build the sort of ultimate program towards your partners.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: But cybersecurity, I think, is becoming one of the most competitive landscapes out there.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: How are you helping your partners cut through the noise of all of these competitors and differentiate your and their mutual proposition?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, that's an excellent point, right In the cybersecurity space specifically, I usually lead on a presentation with it's not if, but, and I remain quiet and everybody chimes in and says when, why?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Because we know that every industry, every vertical, every sector, every person, large and small, is at risk for a cyber attack.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: The problem for the small partners and small customers is that 80% of a small business that gets attacked goes out of business.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So this is not a fear tactic.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: This is not a nice to have, it's a need to have.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: We have to keep these businesses safe.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: We have to keep them up and running and give them peace of mind.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: That's what the MSPs do for their partners.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: They are the trusted advisor.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: We're just a manufacturer, we create products, but I want us to be more than that.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I want us to work side by side in our mission to help educate and enable.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: For example, I ask people when do you work?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And they say nine to five, Monday through Friday.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Some people work later, earlier, and I ask do you know when most cyber attacks happen?
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It's four o'clock in the morning on a Sunday.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Is anyone working?
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: For if they are, they buy that person a drink.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: They deserve it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: They should not be working that hard.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: But we have now a SOC 24-7, 365.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: We have one in North America.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: We recently opened one in EMEA to keep things separate because of policy and programs, but we also are going to build one in APJC and we're going to help become an extension of our partner's family so that they, too, can keep their customers safe.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: The other thing that we noted is that 80% of the attacks that happen happen in the cloud.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: So we made two acquisitions over the last 10 months.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: One was Solutions Granted, which was run by my dear friend, Michael Crean, who would also be an excellent guest for your podcast I have lots of recommendations and he was a 18-year partner of SonicWall, ran an MSP, converted it into an MSSP and now we are able to create at scale and globally what he's done, so amazingly, for our partners in North America.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, we acquired a company called Banyan Security.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Banyan is a wonderful cloud solution that has been fantastic companies like, let's say, Adobe and Chick-fil-A and very large enterprise spaces and, coming from Cisco, where I spent 14 years, I can tell you both in the partner advisory council there and our partner advisory council and more SMB focused partners ZTNA, CASB, SWAG.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: All of these cloud solutions are really not as familiar in the SMB for most partners today, and so we in this acquisition are really a sort of a first to market in this space for helping create very cost feasible, high functioning ability for them to protect their partners in the cloud VPN replacements and other things.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: So some people will say do I replace my firewall?
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: What we're most known for, I think it's all about layers of security.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: We need to make sure that we have at every layer at endpoint, at email, in cloud, on-prem, in network you have multiple layers of security, and that's our goal to help keep our partners and customers safe.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about how you build a program for your partner, how those partners take out a message to market and educate the customer, to protect the customer.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: But that almost comes backwards to how do you build your team.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: How do you build the team internally at SonicWall to help drive the right message and the right program out to market?
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Now, something that I think is really important when we talk about team building is how do we build the team that has the right balance of thoughts?
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: What do you do to ensure that you have that right diversity of thought, that right inclusivity and build that right culture?
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: That's a fantastic question that, I think, is a constant work in progress.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: If I'm honest with you, for multiple reasons Everybody looks at things from their purview, from their lens, sort of with horse blinders on.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: If you're in sales, you think about it from the sales perspective.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: If you're in marketing, you think about it with a marketing lens.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: If you're in operations or engineering or product, that's the world you're coming from it.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Then you add deeper disconnect, because not only is it your industry or your vertical or your specialization or expertise, but now you add the complication of culture, country, language, theater.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: So we're in 218 countries and territories around the world In North America, in Canada, us Latam.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: There are already huge differences within our area here.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Now you take that to EMEA and the Middle East and emerging markets.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: In Europe, you take it to Asia-Pac and Australia, new Zealand, and so there's a lot of nuances, there's cultural differences, there's team differences.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: We all need to do.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: One thing and I'm very focused on that as global channel leader is how do we create standardization?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I'll use McDonald's as an example.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: You know, no matter where you walk in in anywhere in the world, if you order a Big Mac and fries and a Coke, it is going to taste the same.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: It's going to taste like a Big Mac fries and a Coke, unless they don't have cows, and then you're going to have a chicken burger.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So outside of that, you're going to have very consistent experience.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So when I look at us, I say what is the onboarding experience for a partner?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Well, we had to look at North America, we had to look at Europe, we had to look at Asia.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: How does it?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: It wasn't the same.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So how do we create a standard process that, no matter where you become your journey as a SonicWall partner, it is similar, it is the same, it is consistent?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: How do we support you from a customer support perspective post-sale support, pre-sale support how do we help, educate and enable you?
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: So we started a series called Cafe Tech and Cafe Biz, which we do in three different time zones and we do translate them and store it in our content library.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: But so from an outside-in perspective, it's one understanding the cultural nuances and the type of persona of who you're targeting and working with, whether it's an internal employee or it's a partner.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Those are going to be disparate.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So I have a counterpart and his name is Oz and he's our global VP of engineering and he runs a lot of our technical advisory councils and Oz will say to me well, let's just merge it together.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And I said we could because I think there's times where both of that content is the same.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: However, I think there's times where you're going to have a more sales-minded persona and a more technical-minded persona, and so, in those instances, are we delivering what that person needs?
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Is their need, their superpower, their love language, what they want to hear from us?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Are we talking about speeds and feeds in the weeds to somebody that cares about profitability and margin and M&A?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Two different conversations, right.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And so we have to be very cognizant of the persona of who we're working with and we also, as a woman in tech who has not only seen a stagnation of women entering tech, but a decline of women and just diverse people, we need to give everyone a seat at the table Women, diverse candidates, socioeconomic backgrounds, cultural differences, introverts and extroverts, giving room and space for them to breathe and participate in a comfortable way for them.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: And so, regardless of you know, make model and all of those things, does everybody feel included?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Does everybody feel heard?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Does everyone feel appreciated?
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Those things are just kind of table stakes, fundamentals, that, whether you're an employee or a partner, a vendor, a customer.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You need to create that space of equality and equity for your team and your partners.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: So we've built the right team, we've designed an awesome program that we're taking to market and the partners have the right message to take and educate to their customers, and I think that was that was the game Right.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: And I think that was the game right.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: And then I think the world is rapidly starting to change because you can build that business, but your competitor down the road could build that business, plus AI, and that seems to be the sort of dynamite in the soup today where it's like, oh, hang on, everything is about to change.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I'd love to understand, michelle, from your perspective, how are you leveraging AI to take that and become the catalyst of change with your go-to-market?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: A number of ways.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, AI has been around for a long time.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: It's just become a very lengthy buzzword with next-gen AI and then you have to really double-click on what does that mean for the audience and who's talking about it?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: In our own tools and technology, we leverage AI for monitoring, for understanding the attacks and breaches that are happening and for the attempts at those and where they're coming from and the roots of those things.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So AI is built, integrated into our products and technology for many years.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Beyond that, how does the company grow based upon AI?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: In a number of ways and we're exploring some of them that we haven't even fully onboarded yet.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: But one would be customer support right and, just to be honest, like it could be terrible or wonderful, depending on who you have, and that's the consistency right that we look at for any organization you've been on.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I pick up an airline and we all complain.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I said, in a post-pandemic world, has support just gotten terrible?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I'm on hold for 35 minutes and if you don't like it in your B2C life, why would you like it in your B2B life, especially when seconds are important to your customers and downtime is not an option.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So we've done a lot of things at SonicWall to help from a support perspective.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: One, we don't close cases based upon oh, I called or I texted or I emailed and I'm not the person that owns that.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: No, the case is automatically systematic until open, until closed fully, because the problem was resolved.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: That's one thing we had to just solve for, and so that's a huge thing.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: The second is adding live chat so all of our theaters around the world now have the option.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't want to wait on hold, Sometimes you're busy.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So all of our theaters around the world now have the option.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't want to wait on hold, Sometimes you're busy, so having that chat option was very important and now we've launched that globally and coming in November, December timeframe in North America, so that will be the next thing.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: And the third piece of that is artificial intelligence.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: So we get thousands of calls from thousands of people, different agents in stages of maturity and expertise in their journey of technology and cybersecurity in our products.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: How do we create these things?
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Knowledge bytes.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: We call them videos.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: We have YouTube tutorials, right, Because people like how do you find information?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Google, YouTube, TikTok, short, concise, fun ways of figuring out how to solve a problem and, on average.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: We see the similar problems come up time and time again.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: So leveraging AI to take that, consolidate that information and just make it much easier and digestible so that partners can hit the ground running, or customers and not have to worry about how to figure out the nuances or read a 500-page PDF right, we don't want them to overcomplicate things, so that's one way we're leveraging it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: The second would be enablement and training.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: So a lot of times when anybody in any organization does a training, what do they do?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I have to do this and this is the end goal and systematically I will check a box.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I've completed it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: That's my litmus test for if I've done it well or if I've done it right.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Do you truly learn anything in that way?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think you do, to be honest, and so leveraging AI in order to understand the capabilities, the aptitude, the breadth and scope and reach of each individual and collective party.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: As to where the gaps are, where we need to train more, where we need to double click, where we need to learn.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I'll use cloud as an example.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Right, If it's a new technology to partners or employees, new to SonicWall, do we have the knowledge and aptitude to talk to it with the intelligence.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: It deserves that the team that we acquired could it with the intelligence.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: It deserves that the team that we acquired could.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And if not, then how do we get from A to Z in that way?
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: And so that's where I feel like AI can be a huge help for enablement and training and education purposes.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, marketing.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are leveraging AI for marketing.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: We've seen those creepy photos and videos of like.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I had like fangs and 20 fingers.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: It was very odd, but hey, I have a new headshot right.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: So there's a number of ways that you can leverage AI in terms of blogs, in terms of media, in terms of pre-canned messages that we can work with our partners so that they can customize or tailor it to their needs as well.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, sales and other motions.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: But AI has huge opportunities throughout every organization around the world, but with that comes huge threats.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: In a number of ways, Cyber criminals on the other side of the fence are leveraging AI in very, very creative, creative, sophisticated ways, taking their already very stealthy and malicious attempts to the next level.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Looking at deep fakes, where they are, you know, taking $25 million, impersonating the CFO of a company, looking at the ability for people to just really pretend they're politicians and could cause world wars.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Looking at, you know, nationals and other places that the Russians were banned from the Olympics, and how many cyber attack attempts were there on the amount of people and power and prestige that was in the room watching those sports, right.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: So there's huge things, whether it's a very small or very large.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: You could buy ransomware as a service.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, these things get easier and easier with AI as well.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: So we have to be the good guys, have to be extra vigilant to defeat the bad guys in that journey.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Michelle, that's perfect.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's really given me, and hopefully our listeners, a sense on how do you build a program company and a message to take to market, wrapped up with the opportunity and potential threat around AI.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Here we like to box as smart as possible, which, rather than working hard, working smart, and so we always like to ask our current guest who they think we should have on next.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Michelle, who do you have in mind?
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Well, there's so many people.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I could think of a number of people and I probably will give you a longer list, but right off the bat, the first person that I would think of is my dear friend and one of my personal mentors in this journey is Rob Ray.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: He is at Pax8, as you probably know, but I think everybody in the world would know Rob Ray.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: He's one of my favorite people because he truly cares about his partners and his industry and the community as a whole, and he's probably bought a beer for every managed service provider in the world.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty confident he has.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I should start an MSP just to get the beer and hopefully I can get Rob on soon.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Michelle, thanks so much.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: It's been a real pleasure having you on.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It is my pleasure as well.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the opportunity and I look forward to it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: If anyone wants to reach out, just find me on LinkedIn.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to connect.