Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.260: '5 Things To Look For In An MSK Conference' with special guest Emily Gilbert

Transcript

Ep.260: '5 Things To Look For In An MSK Conference' with special guest Emily Gilbert · The STA Clinician Podcast

0:00
You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast putting evidence
0:05
back into soft tissue therapy,
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live um apologies if you're trying to join us live a
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few technical problems um hopefully you'll be able to join us but anyway it is
0:25
episode 260 of the sports therapy association podcast my name is matt phillips
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creator of runchecklive.com and as always this episode has been recorded live
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on the sports therapy association youtube channel and facebook on a tuesday
0:38
night it's supposed to be at o'clock it's 8 12 now because we have some technical
0:41
issues but hopefully you will be able to join us.
0:44
Somehow we have reached five years of weekly podcasts.
0:50
So that's 260 episodes in a row since we decided to record a little show back
0:56
in 2020 to help answer some of the questions that therapists had when they were
1:01
finally allowed to go back to work after COVID-19 restrictions were lifted.
1:05
Since then, I'm happy to say we've grown into around a
1:08
couple of thousand downloads a month thanks to our amazing guests
1:11
who i must thank as always and for giving up their
1:14
time totally for free and also for people who joined us live
1:17
it's as our tagline says our idea
1:20
of this is to put some evidence back into soft tissue therapy but that means
1:24
we're not shouting we're not standing on a soapbox we're being very calm and
1:27
cool and collective and we don't want to make you feel stupid we know what it's
1:31
like to pay loads of money on a course and then suddenly go onto Twitter or
1:35
X or whatever the idiot who runs it wants to call it,
1:38
and then have somebody shouting at you in capital letters and making you feel
1:42
like, well, I may as well ditch it all in.
1:44
That's the last thing we want, because believe me, we need more people like
1:47
you who have got the empathy of wanting to work in healthcare and look after people.
1:51
There's just a little bit you could tweak to make it even better and to take
1:54
advantage of the amazing empathy and love and care you've got for your fellow
1:58
human beings. So that's what we try and do.
2:00
And these days now, we're very proud to say that the podcast
2:03
is used on some degree courses and physiotherapy first year degree courses and
2:08
for some reflection with the students there and yeah we couldn't do it without
2:12
you so I just want to say thank you very much to everybody who downloads the
2:15
podcast everybody who joins us live and thanks to all our wonderful speakers so thank you very much.
2:21
Right then, this is our five-year anniversary episode, like I said,
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and very shortly I'm going to be joined by Emily Gilbert of FrameworkSportsMassage.com,
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who eight years ago made a huge career change by moving from biomedical science to massage therapy,
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and in her own words, has never looked back.
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As an evidence-based mobile sports massage therapist, Emily has been sharing
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some amazing information on Instagram.
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I recommend that you go and check out Framework Sports Massage,
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and this includes some reflections that she had following her experience at
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the STA and Hands on Hub conference, which took place in Exmouth.
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Feels like a lifetime ago now. It was back in September.
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And so what we're going to do in this show, as well as celebrating our five
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years, we're going to talk about, well, Emily is going to talk about five things
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that she looks for in an MSK conference.
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So in a musculoskeletal conference, the idea being what is worthwhile CBD to
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pay for with your hard-earned cash and what you're going to benefit it from.
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And don't forget on that topic, there is still a questionnaire,
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which you, the listener, would love you to fill out, which you can reach by
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going to the stschool.co.uk or the sta.co.uk.
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And there's a QR tag on there, or there's a simple link button,
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and it'll take you to a questionnaire, which is called, what do you want from a CBD conference?
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And we'd really love you to fill that out. The more data we can get,
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the better, because if the STA and Hands on Hub conference wasn't a success,
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it's because simply we listened to you and we gave you what you wanted,
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rather than just saying, you need this,
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listen to this, sit down there, be quiet, listen to all of our stuff.
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That's not what we did at all.
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So if you can tell us more of what you want, then do it.
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And yeah, go to that questionnaire. I'll give it, I'll give the link out again
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at the end. But like I say, it's on the ST School website and the stschool.co.uk.
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But first, let me just make sure I thank my guests from last week before I forget.
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Sorry, this is a big intro today. You might just want to fast forward if you listen to the podcast.
4:14
Fast forward, there's a term from the 1980s. Yeah, last week we had Jenny Bowell
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was with me, fantastic Jenny Bowell from Bowell Education, who joined me.
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She's the founder, CEO, lead tutor, and course curator of Bowell Education.
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And she taught me about her latest course, Brief Coaching, which is designed
4:30
to provide the all-important skills to help health professionals avoid physical and mental burnout.
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Skills that, as we talked about, are very too often missing from traditional
4:39
industry qualifications.
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Jenny is an amazing person, such a fascinating life story.
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She's had nearly 20 years history in the industry, educating,
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supporting, particularly women's health in the form of movement,
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fitness, physiotherapy, soft tissue therapy, coaching professionals.
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So I do thoroughly recommend that you go along to borougheducation.com and have a look.
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The brief coaching course, there is a hundred pound discount if you sign up
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before October the 31st,
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and it's October the 21st this is going
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out live so if I get it out as a podcast you probably
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still got time if you listen to this um I do recommend you have a little look
5:12
and check it out if that suits you then go for it right then that is the intro
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um it took long enough it gives me great pleasure then to celebrate tonight's
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260th episode uh to bring up my special guest Emily Gilbert of Framework Sports
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Massage with the five things I look for in an MSK conference.
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Hi, I'm good, thank you. How are you? Well, that was a bit of a...
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I know, it was a bit stressful.
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It feels like we were waiting for like eight minutes watching this clock go
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around, watching the paint dry.
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But we're here and I think some people have joined us. If you have managed to
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find our link, then please do leave a hi in the comments.
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I can see a few of you are joining on YouTube or Facebook. So just let us know
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that you can hear us and everything's cool.
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And yeah, that'd be great. Just tap a... We can see your comments and I'll bring it up on the screen.
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Right then, whilst people are thinking about what to say, then Emily.
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Five years five years nearly as long as when you decided to change your career
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change science yeah that was three years prior first of all happy birthday.
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I've been listening since the start so it's yeah it's it's come a long way hasn't
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it i can't believe it's been five years were you really listening from the start
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yeah i was listening from the So I kind of moving from biomed to massage,
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I was kind of seeking out evidence-based resources.
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Somebody recommended the podcast to me and started listening. It's fantastic.
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Oh, that's very nice to hear. That wasn't rehearsed at all, listener.
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No, it wasn't. It wasn't, by the way. It wasn't, I promise.
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If there's one thing that Emily is, it's very genuine. Oh, thank you.
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That's fantastic. As you will see when you go to her Instagram account.
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No, that's really cool to hear. It's funny, isn't it?
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It seems so long ago now, but it was such a crazy time when you look back at
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COVID-19 with the gloves and the masks and the, are we allowed to,
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and all that. It was just crazy.
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It's the sort of thing which happens once every hundred years, isn't it? I know.
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Well, interestingly, I don't know whether I should talk about this.
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When I was training to be a biomedical scientist as part of some work that we
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did on our course, we had to write a genetic code for a virus that would turn into a pandemic.
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I was now very good at genetics. So mine was just nonsense.
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But we also had to look at how we would control the release of information,
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spread of misinformation around it.
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So that was an interesting time. Wow.
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So was that just before the virus broke out then? No, no, no.
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So I changed, I qualified in 2018 as a massage therapist. So it was way, way before then.
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And also there was no practical element to that, by the way.
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We weren't making it. I was going to say, yeah.
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It was all theory and mine did not work as i was repeatedly told by my lecturer so or did it,
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Oh, well, I was never good at genetics. I was never good at genetics.
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It's not my area, not my forte.
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I did genetics as part of Human Biology University, and it was the time of Dolly
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the Sheep. So it was a very exciting time.
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I can't remember what year it
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was, but yeah, we were kind of like all intermolecular genetics and stuff.
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And yeah, fantastic. Then I realized how much you get paid if you're a lab rat,
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and it was just ridiculous.
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And I thought, there's no way I could do that, and I moved out of it. But anyway, right.
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So there we go. What made you, I think it's in order for four people here about
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what five things you recommend should happen at MSK conference.
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Tell me a little bit more about what made you move from biomedical science to massage.
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So I worked in the blood labs, which worked with blood and I essentially my
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job changed quite significantly.
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So I was part of a team that did a community outreach
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program we worked with people with unhoused people
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with living with addiction and we do community
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blood testing for blood-borne communicable diseases
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funding was pulled for that
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project that was incredibly fulfilling and worthwhile
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they wanted people to come into hospital did not
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work because people with very chaotic lives
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it's incredibly difficult for people to come into hospital my job
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changed a lot I ended up being kind of moved this
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is a really depressing story I ended up being moved into a more management role
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I moved away from lab work it was not what I wanted to do and so
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I was just looking for a bit of a change and then a an advert came up on Instagram
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for a massage course in Sheffield and I did it and I promptly handed my notice
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in which I don't think you're supposed to do transitioning from one role to
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another but I did and eight years later we're still here.
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That's a good story. Oh, I also assisted on autopsies for six months and assisted
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on a lot of pain research while I was a biomed.
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Wow. Well, that's very interesting to know.
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I think it's important as well because I was wondering, actually talking about
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autopsies, not quite autopsies, but do you remember Serena Simmons who was at the conference?
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Did you know that she is in the TV show Witches of Essex with Ryland?
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I did not. Well, there you go. Check it out, people. Just a little plug here
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for Serena Simmons, who was at the conference.
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She has the psychology school.
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But she's a serial killer profiler.
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And so that was her original kind of passion. And she still lectures in that.
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But yeah, she's with Ryland on TV doing The Witches of Essex. It's on Sky.
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If you haven't got Sky like me, then you're going to have to find another way
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of downloading it. Yes, another way.
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Yeah, shout out for that. I'm sure with Serena and her skills,
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it will be really interesting. Yeah, absolutely.
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So, yeah, I wanted to check with you. Your thing on Instagram at Framework Sports
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Massage is trying to, I think I can safely say it's trying to help other therapists
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kind of embrace evidence-based and evidence-informed.
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And I say help because there's a lot of people out there who I don't think,
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and I've said this before, I don't think are helping as much as maybe their
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intention is. Even if you've got a good intention, it can get a bit shouty.
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Yeah, it kind of, yeah. And I think you kind of said that sometimes,
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depending on what your day's been like, then it can get a bit shouty,
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but you're very quick on the next one to kind of reel it in and explain yourself
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or whatever. So do you think...
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Your background obviously made you very open to looking for the evidence.
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There was a really nice post from Ben Wybrow from Clinical Communication Podcast.
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Yeah, love Ben's work. He's brilliant, isn't he? Yeah, brilliant.
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He's going to come again to the show. He's doing an MSC at the moment,
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but he's going to be on the show in January.
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Brilliant. He just reminded us that a lot of our clients, I mean,
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a lot of us have been to university and we've done essays and we've had to put
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sources in and research and all that kind of stuff.
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So we kind of talk that language. if we've got that mind just because
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we've been through it a lot of our clients and a lot of the
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population haven't so when we are working with
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clients or patients if we start telling them well
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no according to this blah blah blah as he explains it's just you know
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you may as well be talking to a wall it's just not their language so it's
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quite a good reminder that a lot of our
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clients haven't been experienced to that so we've got to talk their
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language but but anyway for you it came
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quite easy but i'm wondering if you got any advice
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or recommendations for the classic scenario where somebody
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has done a course paid maybe two and a half three grand for it
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yeah they've come out they've gone on social media and
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somebody said massage doesn't spirit cancer you idiot
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you've gone to a better course you've wasted your money kill your instructor
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or something like that how do you help somebody like that apart from sending
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them to your instagram what words of wisdom would you have for them I it's hard
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I've I've done courses like that where I've spent you know three thousand pounds
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and I'm not going to name the course but that's a.
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And I have never used that course once. So that was a lovely investment of my time and money.
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It's really hard, isn't it? I think, first of all, you have every right to be
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a bit annoyed and a bit, you know, miffed that you've just kind of gone through
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this and then you've got people telling you, hang on a second,
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this is not, you know, this is not quite in line with current evidence.
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I think, first of all, we have to just be open to being wrong.
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I think that's something that we just need to be in our lives but also working
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as as massage therapists and.
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I think there's always there will always be parts of
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the course maybe in most courses I think actually that aren't quite
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as up to date as maybe somebody thinks that they should be I think when I've
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had conversations with people about this we've always actually found takeaways
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from the course that have been beneficial so whilst the how can I put this politely
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whilst maybe some of the actual content of the course might not be the most up to date.
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It's actually kind of quite a nice jumping off point for people to start to
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develop their critical thinking skills.
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And I don't think people are quite realizing that they're actually doing that
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until we start having a conversation.
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So I think you can be annoyed.
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Take what you can from the course, maybe look at some skills that you have developed
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outside of the actual information that you've been given and And potentially
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look to research courses maybe more before you go into them next time.
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It's a tricky one, isn't it? It's hard because if you're paying a lot of money
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for a course, you expect it to be up to date.
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But massage is an unregulated industry and unfortunately a lot are not.
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I'm trying to be really cordial here you did very
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very well thank you i like the way that you say
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yeah first of all giving the person permission
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to be annoyed i think is really important and trying to
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kind of get them to to not be like that
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and move on is just not it doesn't work you're not
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going to get somebody to go oh yeah you're right thank you so much you're amazing you've
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got permission to be really really pissed off because it's frustrating but then
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i like the way you said that when you look into a little bit you can see that
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there's quite a lot from that course you still can take away and use that really
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you're just tweaking a few things I think especially with massage because you know what,
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I would say that part of that being in touch with how the person is responding to your touch,
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being present and authentic yourself and not thinking, what's going to have
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for dinner tonight whilst you're giving them this massage and this kind of grooming,
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social grooming, kind of primate grooming stuff.
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You need to get a little bit into this kind of like, I've shown my age now about saying hippie,
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but even if once upon a time you felt that you were moving
15:40
their blood up their leg and down increasing their circulation if that's what
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it takes for you to have that kind of movement and come back and be present
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and thinking about it brilliant I think you can be a better therapist for it
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absolutely I think as well we kind of need to understand that we we are gonna
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we are gonna say things incorrectly we are gonna kind of give out misinformation because.
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We don't know what we don't know but you learn you move forward you try not
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to do it again I think that's probably the way I tend to work we could get into
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a deep conversation about,
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the problem with misinformation within the massage space but I
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don't think that's particularly helpful people that have just spent thousands of
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pounds on a course I think one
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of the good pointers as well is that because one
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of the things which makes people angry is kind of a fear obviously and
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you're kind of worried that you've said something to your patient or client
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and then it's like oh my god what are they gonna think of me they're never gonna
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come back yeah they're really not going to care in
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fact they're going to like the fact when you go you know what i've been looking into
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that and reading and researching and actually i think i
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changed that narrative a little bit because it helped me help you a bit more and they're
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like wow absolutely definitely i think also we have to be a bit more comfortable
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with saying we don't know i think people are so frightened to say i don't know
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i don't know the answer to that like um i don't know why i'm giving you different
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ways to phrase that but i think there's quite a lot of humility in that and
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clients really resonate with that and just saying I don't know the answer to this,
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but I will go and find out. I will speak to somebody that may know.
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I can refer you to somebody who may be more equipped to deal with the situation.
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I think there's a lot of, a lot of power in that. And I've definitely done that.
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I would also say I've got it terribly wrong with clients as well,
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like monumentally wrong, where I've
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just lost a client mid appointment and there's no coming back from it.
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But you try not to do that again. And you learn from your mistakes and,
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grant yourself a bit of grace and don't do it again.
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It's cool though, because it's all part of just not burning out,
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isn't it? When you forgive yourself and you realize I'm only human and you realize
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the client doesn't mind.
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No. You know, you've got to just, it saves you a lot of grief and stress and burnout.
17:48
Definitely. I think this is something that kind of maybe puts a lot of people
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off evidence-based practice as well,
17:52
if they're very new to this kind of whole terminology and world is
17:55
thinking that you need to have this perfect practice where you never
17:58
make mistakes and you can't say anything wrong and
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you know you should be incredibly aware all the time of what you're talking
18:04
about and that it's it's not that and i think
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a huge part of evidence-based practice is the ability
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to reflect on what you've done how you improve it moving forward recognizing when
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you actually did something really well and and just
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i guess like giving yourself a bit
18:19
of grace in your practice as you're learning because you have
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to otherwise it'd be terrifying to practice that's
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true great points so we
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could talk about that for another half hour but i think there's a it's a nice
18:32
segue though isn't it because obviously we're going to talk about you're going
18:35
to talk now about five things which you look for in msk conference because this
18:39
can be one way to either make yourself more evidence-informed depending on where
18:43
you go to or it can be a way to spend more money on something and then regret
18:47
it and have people telling you,
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oh, that course wasn't really worth it. So let's go into that.
18:52
Five things do you look for in an MSK conference with Emily Gilbert? Thank you.
18:58
I think first of all, just moving away from a kind of informative point of view,
19:03
I think just a conference being really welcoming and open and diverse with the
19:07
people that it has attending, but also it has presenting.
19:10
Because I think, I don't know if you feel like this, But I think sometimes we
19:16
see the same faces at the same conferences all the time. And they absolutely
19:20
have got valuable things to say.
19:21
Like, I'm not criticizing people who are presenting.
19:24
But there were people there that I had never heard of.
19:27
And that was really wonderful there was a hugely diverse
19:31
range of topics but just people were just incredibly incredibly welcoming
19:34
I think it was very easy to go up to
19:37
people and introduce yourself and I like the way we all had
19:40
name badges on and sorry I'm bringing this back to the the
19:43
conference from four weeks ago but it just felt a
19:45
really like a really nice kind supportive environment to
19:48
be in and not an environment where people are just going
19:51
to brag about how much they know and show people how little they know and
19:54
I thought that was a lovely a lovely place to start that's really
19:57
cool i'm really glad you noticed that because that conference
20:00
was our chance to move away from kind of
20:03
mainstream stuff and tweak it and do it as we wanted and
20:06
and we had we had the tagline for the
20:09
sta and hands on our conference and it was a case of pause was the first word
20:15
pause reflect connect and grow and so that meant before we even started andy
20:19
hosgood hosgood was was amazing just to make people just say right take a breath
20:24
ground yourself relax i really struggled to reflect.
20:28
I find it a really hard thing to do. It's like my brain just like empties itself of any thoughts. But.
20:34
I think it's sometimes good to put yourself in uncomfortable situations. For sure.
20:38
Definitely. But we kind of, we
20:39
try to model it. And I think this is where education sometimes goes wrong.
20:44
We try to model it and how you're supposed to be with a client.
20:47
Yeah. Okay. If you were the client, then you don't go rushing straight in.
20:49
There's an engagement process of where you're just kind of chatting,
20:53
relaxing, getting that alliance, that kind of like, it's a safe space and all of that.
20:57
And then you move in with something. So that's, we just followed the recipe
21:01
for that. So that's why we did that kind of breathing, relaxing,
21:04
close your eyes, be present, you're in a safe place, say what you like, ask questions.
21:08
So I'm glad, I'm glad you picked up on that.
21:11
Yeah, I think it set a really nice precedence for the conference, to be honest.
21:14
And I think because there's always that slight nervous energy,
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isn't there, when you're in a room with people you don't know,
21:18
you've never met before.
21:19
Maybe you've spoken to online, but not met in person. And I felt like it was,
21:22
I felt like the tables were arranged really nicely as well.
21:25
I know that sounds random, but if somebody was sat on their own,
21:29
people would go and sit with them.
21:31
Nobody i think was sat on their own and it
21:33
just felt like a really nice way to kick off the the weekend settled everyone's
21:37
energy a little bit i mean again i'm really glad you spotted
21:40
that because the table thing traditionally at a conference it was
21:44
you know it's tempting just to have that kind of cinema stall lecture kind of
21:48
hall with everyone in rows so all you've got is the people next year who you're
21:51
a bit close to and don't want to talk to really and it's dark and so yeah the
21:55
round tables with people in semi-horseshoes just talking and being able to kind
21:59
of lean over and say hi to everyone.
22:01
It was very intentional. But again, it's the same with a client.
22:04
We know that if you want to form that therapeutic alliance with your client,
22:08
you don't want to be kind of straight opposite them and higher up and talking down.
22:11
You want to be kind of reflecting body language and sitting at an angle with them.
22:15
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really interesting for me going into people's
22:18
homes because I'm very much stepping into their space rather than them stepping
22:22
into kind of maybe quote unquote my space that would be a.
22:29
It's obviously their space it's you know they are the
22:31
one that should be in control of that space but I think what's really nice going
22:34
into people's homes this is sorry just coming away from the conference for a second is
22:37
most people offer me a drink like when I get there I mean
22:40
I've had lunch with some people after appointments before but but yeah it's
22:44
I just felt like the space was it was incredibly welcoming it was incredibly
22:47
easy to chat and I always think name badges make it a little bit easier as well
22:52
don't they and I think the whole setup from the off was just a nice way to settle
22:56
everyone's energy and kick off the weekend.
22:59
Cool. Great. So yeah, setting the scene, an important one.
23:03
So if you are looking for a conference or something, just see how much of that
23:07
there is. Or even if you go somewhere, even if they haven't got it,
23:10
just make it for yourself.
23:11
Just take some moments to talk to some people, feel confident,
23:14
the right to ask questions.
23:16
Crow, number two, what's next on your list? So next on my list was the real
23:21
range of kind of MSK and non-MSK therapists that we had there.
23:25
I mean, like I said, there were people that I'd never heard of, which was amazing.
23:29
And I just thought it made for a really interesting weekend.
23:32
I was speaking to kind of some people when I was there and we were talking about
23:36
how we ended up in talks that we didn't think we were going to want to be at.
23:40
And they were incredible.
23:42
And I think we just had a really, really good range. And I also think we kind
23:45
of had a good range of people that maybe we don't necessarily see at some of
23:49
the bigger conferences all the time. I mean, some, absolutely.
23:52
But I just felt like it was a really wide range of therapists talking on a really
23:57
wide range of topics. And it was incredible.
24:01
I had a great time. I'm just going to talk about how much of a nice time I had.
24:04
It's really nice to hear that you say, yeah, you ended up going to see things
24:08
which normally you wouldn't do because maybe it's just the next topic was so disconnected.
24:12
You thought, oh, stay here and watch that. we had a few cases where people said
24:16
that in the feedback where they stuck around because they didn't feel they felt
24:20
they could be anywhere without judgment so they thought i'll have a look at
24:23
this yeah and they went oh my god never thought that'd be so interesting that was absolutely,
24:26
so that was good to see and it was kind of like you know that like you know
24:30
that thing at a festival where you can't see everybody so you kind of just got
24:32
to make a choice there were definitely some hopefully see some people's talks
24:36
maybe at another conference at another time because there was there was stuff
24:39
that i wanted to catch and um,
24:42
But yeah, the topics were vast, weren't they? So many different topics. It was fantastic.
24:47
And also we had some lovely feedback from the speakers. The speakers enjoyed
24:50
it as well. We did have people like Dr. Claire Minchell. Yeah, absolutely.
24:54
Who are obviously used to massive, massive conferences with thousands of people.
24:58
But they fed back to us that it just made such a refreshing change to be able
25:03
to stand in front of a group of people who were clear-headed and ready to ask
25:08
questions and had that permission.
25:10
And like i think claire minchel dr
25:13
claire minchel in her one her and serena when they're the joint one downstairs
25:16
just started off the presentation going right what would you like to know we've
25:20
got loads of information we're amazing we are but how can we help you what a
25:24
great way to start a presentation yeah actually this is a nice segue into my
25:27
next point because i was going to say how approachable all the speakers were.
25:32
And again, sometimes in conferences, and I understand people have busy lives,
25:36
people have got places to be.
25:37
Often people are doing multiple talks in a very short space of time at some
25:40
of the bigger conferences, but people were quite happy to talk after they had
25:44
finished their presentation. They were quite happy to take questions.
25:47
Also, they were quite happy to take questions that maybe there was an element
25:51
of disagreement with what they were saying or, you know, challenge.
25:54
And it just felt like a really lovely space to do that. But I
25:57
think their enthusiasm for the topics
26:00
they were presenting on but also their willingness to hang around
26:04
afterwards where they could answer questions just have
26:06
a general chat was lovely it's really
26:09
refreshing that's part of the atmosphere as well it's funny
26:12
isn't it because they finish then you're sitting down there and next year is
26:16
siobhan o'donovan or michelle lyons you know they're just sitting there watching
26:19
as well and chatting with each other and you realize these people are human
26:22
and that's it's great exactly so much yeah i'm very guilty for putting people
26:27
on a pedestal like i i do that a lot like,
26:31
and i'm not saying that's a bad thing at all but it was lovely to kind of you
26:34
know have people that actually wanted to stay around for the rest of the conference
26:37
as well where they could because they were interested in some of the other speakers
26:39
they were interested in having conversations with the delegates it was it was
26:42
a really nice feel to it and you didn't feel like you were bothering anyone
26:45
which was lovely nobody felt like they were in a rush to get away which was quite quite nice,
26:51
did you see that there was one rather strange presentation there by a what was
26:55
his name Tris Attenborough.
26:56
Did you see him? Yeah, I've just seen him pop into the chat.
26:59
It was very old, wasn't it? Tris Attenborough is in the house.
27:03
Tris Attenborough. He was just amazing.
27:04
Tris Attenborough says, sorry I'm late, absentmindedly started watching Bake
27:07
Off. Thanks, Tris, for joining us. I'm actually having a chat with Tristan on
27:10
Friday. We're just having a Zoom chat.
27:12
Very nice. That's going to be an interesting chat. Tris was a great presentation. So cool.
27:17
Really good. Really good. Very engaging to watch. He's a great public speaker
27:20
though, isn't he? But you know what I like is the only person who's got,
27:25
not much confidence in Triss. It's Triss. And I say that with all the love I can give.
27:31
But that's what makes it so good and engaging for me because it's so nice to
27:35
see someone who's not the guru standing up there, you know, doing something
27:39
they've done 10 years in a row.
27:40
It's just really thinks and cares about every single slide and word and you can see.
27:46
And you can tell. Yeah, you can tell. It's beautiful. Really, really.
27:49
It's probably, I can't say it's one my favorite because they were all great
27:52
but it's one of the ones i remember maybe
27:55
a lot out of all of them um it was a great one so well done tris and that's
27:59
not just here i'd say that to a lot of people also i don't know if i'm allowed
28:02
to say this but i'm going to say anyway uh me tris and nicky were in the pub
28:07
quite late the night before as well so we did amazing oh it's true the italian.
28:15
Delicatessen yeah but we stayed in the pub for about four hours afterwards yeah it was good we
28:19
a great chat chatting all things massage that's cool
28:22
it was lovely wonderful so yes yeah
28:25
what else what next should you list so my next one which i
28:28
really valued was there was a lot of space
28:31
for like disagreement and challenge and discussion it wasn't just
28:34
kind of everybody sitting there listening to somebody being like
28:36
yes yes yes yes and and you know there were there were conversations
28:39
that i had with people after the presentations ended
28:43
where maybe we didn't quite disagree on things but it was done in such a
28:45
respectful you know we have space for
28:48
other people's opinions it doesn't just have to be this is the way
28:51
it is and anybody that disagrees with us we can't speak to
28:54
I think we've lost that quite a bit online and
28:58
I think I spoke about this in the reel I put together I think sometimes we can
29:01
enter a space especially on social media where people are just screaming at
29:04
each other like it's it's wild isn't it like you probably wouldn't do that in
29:08
public so why are we doing this online but there was a lovely space for kind
29:14
of conversation and disagreement and challenge.
29:17
And I do think that is something that we're really lacking in a lot of these spaces now.
29:22
But yeah, I really valued that. I thought it was a lovely, lovely thing to be able to do.
29:28
Yeah, that's a good point. And we kind of mentioned this in episode 257,
29:33
myself, Anna Maria, Gary Benson, founder of the STA and Andy Hosgood.
29:37
We all kind of reflected on it.
29:39
And we were also, one of our points was why conferences do cost money.
29:45
And even though we tried to keep the price down, gave early birds and that,
29:49
if you're going to have a nice space. I mean, next birthday we were spoiled.
29:53
There were sea views everywhere.
29:54
Oh my God, it was amazing. Massive windows. I swam in the sea.
29:57
It was fantastic. Did you really go to swim? It was so... When we finished on the Sunday.
30:01
It was beautiful there. And that added to this.
30:03
You stood there in front of the window and just thought, wow,
30:06
I'm free. I've got space. This is really healthy. It was amazing.
30:09
Do you know what I liked as well, just building on that, is that people could
30:11
just move in and out of the rooms as they wanted to as well.
30:13
If somebody needed to step out for five minutes, somebody wanted to have a bit
30:16
of a move around and go and get a drink.
30:17
It wasn't disruptive to the people that were speaking. I don't know if that
30:22
was something to do with the way the tables were set up or, you know,
30:24
everybody was just quite respectful of other people's space.
30:26
But sometimes people do need to get up in the middle of a presentation.
30:29
And I've seen conferences where it's been really called out before,
30:32
which wasn't, that was more biomedical science days where it was just,
30:35
it was made a whole thing and it's just really unpleasant.
30:39
But yeah, it was just, it was a lovely space. People could step outside for a bit if they wanted.
30:44
I mean, being by the sea does everybody the world of good anyone,
30:46
doesn't it? But yeah, it was just a lovely, lovely venue.
30:50
And I think from what I can gather from conversations that I've had,
30:53
people were more than happy to pay what they paid for it.
30:56
So, you know, if you want a setup like that, it's going to cost money, isn't it? It is.
31:02
It's it's tricky i mean obviously everyone there of everyone
31:05
there kind of thought yeah we'll pay the money but we know there's a lot
31:08
of people who i mean there's a trend now
31:11
isn't there it seems like you can get so much cpd online and
31:14
even afterwards and i'm not picking on anyone particular for this
31:17
in case you were one of the people but afterwards people say
31:20
oh there's only slides and a few times i kind of commented
31:23
saying you know what the slides aren't gonna hit
31:26
it you're not going to get yeah what that conference is
31:29
about if you just have the slides yeah just to try and help people realize that
31:33
when you do pay a couple hundred quid for a conference you're not just paying
31:37
for the information if you were just paying for the information yeah just download
31:40
the pdfs watch the video what you're paying for is the delivery you know absolutely because who are,
31:47
trained and thinking and how to make you feel comfortable how to make sure that
31:51
you've got the confidence to ask questions and you know yeah and that's what
31:55
you pay for and you're not going to get that for a PDF. No. So this is why people have...
31:59
Try and kind of think plan the year ahead i think anna maria said like for example
32:03
just find yourself a budget she says it's like a grand for her over the 52 weeks
32:07
she's going to spend on cbd could be 500 pounds but give yourself a budget yeah
32:10
and then choose wisely i know when i started out like eight years ago kind of
32:15
my budget was like mine's about a grand for the year.
32:18
And mine i think i like set myself a budget of like
32:20
100 pounds and you can still find really wonderful wonderful
32:24
stuff but yeah I think sometimes it's
32:28
expected to be free or
32:31
just given and I think kind of
32:33
we have to acknowledge the work that goes into putting on something
32:37
like this because it's a huge amount of work
32:39
isn't it to coordinate it and you know
32:42
organize it in the run-up but to coordinate it on the day as
32:45
well and also to get the projectors to connect
32:48
to the laptops why is that still a thing that we have a problem with
32:51
in this society it feels like very school you know when they wheeled the trolley
32:54
out into with the tv on but you know there's a lot of work that goes in behind
32:58
the scenes there was a lot of work happening on the day to make sure everything
33:01
was running really smoothly as well and yeah you have to pay for that and i
33:05
would i just coming back to that point i would encourage massage therapists
33:07
to be setting aside a budget
33:10
every year for cpd but try not to compare yourself for what somebody else's
33:14
budget might be like you know set yourself what you can afford and and go out
33:17
and look for some some cpd so somebody's setting their budget and they're thinking,
33:23
well, I want to make sure that this CPD,
33:25
this conference is going to be worth it. How do they...
33:29
And yeah, how would they find out whether this conference is going to have time
33:33
to reflect a nice atmosphere for people to chat, encourage people to kind of
33:37
a mixture of different, how do they find out before going to the conference?
33:40
How would you recommend?
33:41
I think that's tricky. I mean, I quite like being quite direct and I just ask
33:46
people kind of that have been before and they could listen to this podcast.
33:49
Yeah I think I think just just speaking
33:52
to people that have been in that environment before
33:55
I know I reached out to a couple of people when I've
33:59
been at previous conferences and people are more than happy to share information
34:02
with you it's you know it's an investment people understand that
34:05
but I also think look at
34:08
kind of who is speaking look at you know the the
34:11
I guess like the overall ethos and direction of the
34:14
conference because I think sometimes we have massage therapists
34:17
in conferences that are maybe not hugely directed to their their work we see
34:22
a lot of massage therapists attending physiotherapy conferences and that's that's
34:24
great that's fantastic but sometimes they'll come away and be like hang on a
34:27
second this was all about acl reconstructions and it was nothing to do with
34:30
me as a massage therapist so i think have a look at the speakers have a look at the cost,
34:35
And maybe reach out to some people if you're wanting to find out a little bit
34:38
more about it, or if you're wanting
34:40
to find out about the Hanson Hub STA conference, listen to this podcast.
34:44
I don't know when we're going to do another one. It was so rewarding,
34:48
but so much work goes into it.
34:49
I guess you've got to ask the right questions as well, because the typical question
34:53
will be, who's speaking?
34:54
What are the topics? And again, that
34:56
just turns it into a tick box of what information are they going to give?
35:00
It's like when you're choosing a school. I don't know, people who haven't got
35:03
kids this morning. I know, I have kids.
35:05
I've got a couple now, so we're looking into schools because a 10-year-old is
35:08
going to be leaving the schoolies at the moment.
35:10
And when you're looking for a school for a kid, I can't think of another analogy
35:13
off my head now, but you're not just looking at the academic side of it.
35:18
Well, maybe some people are, but you're looking at what the social life's going
35:22
to be like, how much support they are, whether they've got diversity,
35:24
what sort of, you know, how they, what would they provide for people who are
35:28
maybe on the spectrum or people who have got physical disability or something.
35:31
Because that's life, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. It should be the same thing
35:34
when you get in a conference. Don't just look at who's there.
35:36
Oh, so-and-so's there. They're amazing. They're massive.
35:39
That's going to be delivered. I think it's the same if you're looking for a
35:42
massage therapist. You don't just look at a massage therapist and be like,
35:45
right, I'm going to go and work with that massage therapist.
35:47
Hopefully, you do a little bit of research as to maybe what they specialize in.
35:51
Where are they based? Can you
35:52
access their treatment? Is it within their cost? What are their values?
35:56
What's their ethos around their practice?
35:59
Maybe people don't do that. I don't know. But yeah, I think actually something
36:03
that was praised a lot about the venue was the consideration for people who
36:09
live with neurodivergency,
36:11
who are neurodivergent, because there were lots of options to change lighting, change sound.
36:16
You know, it was quite an accessible venue just from what I spoke,
36:20
from conversations I had with people.
36:22
But I think you kind of need to, you need to look at the bigger picture rather
36:26
than who is just speaking, don't you? I don't know if I'm just waffling on here.
36:29
Sorry, I tend to go off on tangents. No, it's true. That's all good.
36:32
But yeah, looking at kind of the, like you were saying, like the accessibility
36:37
of the venue, the values of the people that are speaking, what you want to get out of the conference.
36:41
Because for most people, even though they're there to learn,
36:44
it's not just an information dumping exercise, is it?
36:47
And I think maybe you need to look a little bit further than just who's speaking
36:51
and, yeah, wanting to be in the presence of a particular person because they're
36:56
speaking. Definitely. Great advice.
36:59
I don't know if that made any sense. No, yeah, totally. no no no totally totally
37:03
totally well to me anyway it made sense to me okay that's everyone else,
37:06
and i guess also if you do end up
37:09
going to a conference i guess it's it's your
37:12
you could turn a conference that hasn't got all
37:15
of this put in place with a certain mind shift of
37:18
how you comport yourself at the conference you can get more
37:21
out of conference than they're actually planned to live with you can't you so for
37:24
what do you think somebody could do
37:27
when they arrive at a conference in order to create some of
37:30
the kind of doors that were opened at our conference what
37:33
kind of mental mind shifts should they be doing as they
37:35
walk through the door what do you think i think you know
37:38
you're you're not just there at the conference to take
37:43
in the information you're there as a a person that
37:45
can interact with other people you can you you
37:49
can network i think a lot of people are frightened to go
37:52
up to other people and speak and chat and
37:55
in reality most people at a conference want to chat there's frequently people
37:58
there on their own and you know looking a bit lost and or not
38:01
looking lost but you know go and kind of start
38:05
start to speak with people I think that's what the like of coming back to what
38:09
I said before the the hands-on hub STA conference did so well because it was
38:13
so easy for people to interact with each other and I don't think I've really
38:18
had that at any other conference before it's all been you sit on a chair and
38:23
you listen to the speaker.
38:25
I think, I think as well, conferences are a great opportunity to listen to people
38:30
that you don't necessarily agree with.
38:32
So if there is kind of, you know, stuff there that maybe doesn't particularly
38:35
resonate with you or agree or, you know, confirm your biases or whatever you
38:38
want to phrase it as, take it as an opportunity to go and be in the presence
38:41
of people that you maybe don't necessarily agree with and see what you take from that.
38:44
Because I still think that makes people very uncomfortable. I think that's always a good one. Yeah.
38:49
It's not pleasant, but you know, it's character building so
38:52
and it could be surprising because yeah it could be
38:55
surprising you know if you're going to see someone who like
38:58
you their main goal is to
39:00
help people there's an altruism there then even if they're using
39:04
a system which you're not thoroughly on board with the way they deliver it and
39:07
the way they talk and the communicating stuff you're still going to pick some
39:10
things up for yeah of course you are of course you are i think that's really
39:13
cool i think it is a case of like we've got therapy expo coming up and in fact
39:18
next week i'll say that We've got the people from Therapy Expert coming up,
39:21
and that's a massive event with 3,000 or 4,000 people coming through.
39:24
And you couldn't really create the same authentic, honest, relaxed environment
39:30
that we did at the Hands-On Hub and STA, because it's just too big.
39:33
It's different, yeah. But when you walk through that door, you're not going
39:36
to be handed on a plate, but if you kind of go...
39:38
Yeah i'm amazing i'm going to talk to anybody who you know i fancy talking to
39:42
just go hey yeah sorry just wanted to ask you a question and then you just have
39:46
to be a bit proactive don't you in your approach yeah it can be easier than
39:50
done but i'd like to i think that most people would be,
39:54
surprised that it's you know you'll ask that from somebody and they will be
39:58
walking around going i'm so glad you said something because i had exactly the
40:01
same question or that's really cool before you know you're having a cup of tea
40:04
coffee or something and and you're chatting and that is where the learning starts.
40:09
That's where the experience and the connection and the growth happens. Absolutely.
40:13
I think it is just kind of, you know, understanding that you might feel a little
40:17
bit uncomfortable doing that, but it becomes much less uncomfortable the more you do it.
40:22
It does. And what's the worst that's going to happen? Someone's going to walk
40:25
away from you. We'll be all right. We'll survive. You'll survive.
40:29
I've come from a science background. It's brutal. like you
40:32
just have to lose any concept
40:36
of how things should look i think it's
40:38
interesting because we are talking about health care and if you want to be a more
40:41
empathetic clinician and active listening and kind of like be more engaged in
40:47
the person you're working with then the same thing should be happening at the
40:50
conference everybody there should be more empathetic and relaxed and honest
40:54
and safe and it should be the same atmosphere so it should it should and i think
40:59
I think it did it really well.
41:00
Thank you very much. Yeah, there's some things we can improve on,
41:03
but generally the whole kind of pause, reflect, connect and grow.
41:08
Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, like I said, we are going to have next week,
41:14
very excited to say we're going to have the team behind Therapy Expert,
41:17
which is a nice segue from this one.
41:19
We're going to be joined by Molly Benson, who's the content producer,
41:23
and Charlotte Spear, who's the show manager, and Vernon Smead,
41:26
who's the business development manager. So all the big names behind TherapyX
41:29
are going to be joining us hopefully at eight o'clock.
41:31
Hopefully it'll start on time next week, Tuesday, October the 21st.
41:34
No, 28th, if you want to join us on YouTube or Facebook.
41:39
And it'd be lovely. There's no STA theatre, all hands on hub at Therapy Expo,
41:43
because we decided to experiment and do our own thing, somewhere a bit more local than that.
41:47
But we're all going to still be there. Anna Maria will be there,
41:50
and there'll be a ST school stand with a couple of people there.
41:53
We're going to have the STA stand as well, and I'll be there,
41:56
both myself and Anna Maria, doing some presentations as well.
41:59
And there'll be a lot of familiar faces, I'm sure. and hopefully if you are
42:03
listening to this podcast and you are going to therapy expo.
42:06
Then yeah it doesn't have to be us but say hello to somebody say
42:09
hello to somebody just ignore that little voice inside saying oh they don't
42:12
want to know me because it's going to make you such a person yeah
42:15
it really will be so absolutely you and you make someone else's day
42:17
as well that's even better improve yourself in their lives
42:20
as well absolutely i don't know i didn't
42:23
ask you actually i am well it clashes
42:26
with something else i'm doing some cpd around
42:29
pain and it's on the same days so I'm both
42:32
I might have to but the CPD is
42:36
in a different time zone so I might be able to make it work oh okay
42:39
and also my parents live quite close by so I can
42:41
maybe like nip home and do that and then look back the next day also just go
42:45
and say hello to Anna Maria she will envelop you won't she she will though won't
42:49
she she's very special and so authentic really really she's incredible I feel
42:55
that she I think we're incredibly lucky to have her in the massage space. I really do.
43:00
I think there aren't many people that put themselves forward like she does,
43:05
put the head above the parapet like she does.
43:07
And I do feel incredibly lucky that we've got her. I feel like a lot of us are
43:10
standing on her shoulders.
43:11
Oh, without doubt. And I remember it all started well.
43:14
How did you meet her, by the way?
43:16
Okay. So I did one chat live conference where I kind of decided to fly.
43:21
Running specialists from australia and and
43:24
canada and america and ireland they got all the names basically
43:27
all the big researchers and all the papers i got together in brighton because
43:31
i just had this desire to bring them all together yeah and and that was probably
43:35
one of the last conferences where people were actually still paying and and
43:39
so yeah we got about 100 people together and we had an amazing couple of days
43:41
yeah it was it the speakers were slightly physiocentric because it was i was
43:47
working with the physiomatics podcast team so it's kind of people like jack
43:49
chew and Derrick Griffin.
43:51
But Anna Maria, who had already done a gait analysis course with,
43:55
came along to it, to Brian.
43:57
And we had a 12, 13 of all the speakers
44:00
on the stage and they were doing a question time with the audience.
44:03
I was still even then trying to recreate this kind of like, they're just humans.
44:06
Ask some questions, it's fine.
44:08
And I think a couple of speakers up there were kind of, I mean,
44:12
this was going back, yeah, six, seven years.
44:14
So there was not an anti-massage therapist but
44:17
it's all a little bit not talking much about that i
44:20
think the conversation might be faster or something yeah so anna maria
44:23
just kind of put her hand up and then stood
44:25
up and just went hold on yeah amazing hold
44:29
on one thing and she just talked to the these fantastic huge names in running
44:34
research on the stage addressed all of them yeah and just said there's more
44:39
to massage than i think you guys realize i i think that's something she does
44:43
incredibly well and And after that, Jack Chu, actually,
44:47
who had a meta before, went up and said, okay, you're interesting.
44:51
How can we get this? I understood what you said, and I feel really guilty now.
44:55
Yeah. How can we get massage? And that's when they started collaborating.
44:58
It's so much more. I think we're starting to see that coming through,
45:01
which is really, really exciting,
45:03
and how we can use touch and integrate touch into a lot of different situations
45:09
outside of a physio rehab context, because my job is not really that.
45:16
And it's just really exciting to see that being recognized and how much research
45:20
we actually do have behind the
45:23
role of touch in a lot of different musculoskeletal pain trauma settings.
45:29
And I think it's much more than a lot of people kind of think it is a lot of the time.
45:32
It is an exciting time. It's really exciting. And we're doing a PhD now as well
45:36
as if she wasn't busy enough.
45:38
So one of my friends is one of her supervisors really relatively.
45:42
And I was just like, oh, so excited for you. So excited for you both.
45:45
Because she's got a cut out there yeah but it's it's so valuable what she's
45:50
doing and it's fantastic to see massage therapists in this space,
45:54
That's very true. Adam Taylor has just said, sorry, just jumped on.
45:57
Great work, Emily. Oh, I know Adam. Really randomly, I used to work with his dad.
46:03
It's really weird. So I knew Adam's dad before I knew Adam. Very weird.
46:08
Okay. There's a story there somewhere.
46:10
That's it. I used to work with his dad.
46:13
Chris says, Anna-Marie Matsieri, one of the best advocates we have. Fantastic. Yes, 100%.
46:19
Right. It's nine o'clock. Although we started a bit late, I need to let Emily have some food.
46:23
Just been working all day i do encourage you guys
46:27
to go along to the instagram
46:30
channel so framework sports massage particularly on
46:33
instagram i think i mean emily you do this fantastic i think i don't know if
46:36
you're always in your car but it's kind of dark you've got one light on you
46:39
and it's just kind of reflection of the day that's why i went till like nine
46:41
o'clock every day that's why but it just adds to it and and it just makes it
46:46
really yeah i like darkness i could live in the darkness like a little goblin
46:50
i'd be quite happy i love winter.
46:53
Yeah so people go along to that framework talk thank you and also just you've
46:58
got another instagram we're talking a little bit off air and i thought i'd mention
47:01
that so you've got framework talks massage yeah it's under development let's
47:06
say it's okay it's i just want a space where so i mentor massage therapists
47:10
that are wanting to develop their evidence-based practice,
47:13
and i thought it was about time that i had a space
47:16
where i could put more information but it's been neglected over
47:19
the last kind of couple of months but we're going
47:22
to start over the next couple of weeks talking more about pain because that
47:24
is the topic that I love I'm obsessed with pain I pretty much all of my CPD
47:29
is around pain and I think we have a problem in the massage space with people
47:34
not understanding pain yet working with people in pain and hopefully I can maybe
47:38
do a little bit to to change that.
47:40
Fantastic well i mean i'm biased anyway but obviously i recommend massage therapists
47:45
to check that out if they are interested in that then they can either dm you at framework,
47:50
framework talks massage yep and or
47:54
they can go along to websites or email you yeah framework sports massage at
47:58
gmail.com i need to overhaul my website it's just definitely something that's
48:03
been neglected as well but fun to everything i thought it looked okay yeah i
48:07
don't like it i I look at it every day and I don't like it. I need to change it.
48:12
Right. Thanks, everyone, who joined us live. Thank you, Emily Gilbert,
48:16
for your words of wisdom.
48:18
I wish you every success with that mentoring. It's great.
48:21
If anyone's going to help massage therapists, then I would put you in the top
48:26
five definitely of people for people to talk to. It's really cool.
48:29
You've just got to do your little bit, haven't you? That's a lovely, humble way of thinking.
48:34
If you listen to the podcast and you're interested in
48:37
becoming an sta member which obviously is all about kind of
48:39
looking after people and giving you advice and help then
48:43
do use the code podcast 25 if you're
48:46
going to join up it's only 75 pounds a
48:48
year and if you use podcast 25 then it
48:51
gets you three months extra for free if you join for
48:54
a single year so basically you get a 12 and
48:57
3 15 months for 75 pounds of membership which is loads of stuff to look after
49:03
you and be there if you need support and advice and they've got regular coffee
49:07
chat meetings just for members and all sorts of wonderful things for you so
49:11
yeah just go to the sta.co.uk you'll see links for joining there if you're interested,
49:15
As I say, next Tuesday, Therapy Expo special, which is happening November the
49:20
26th and 27th at the NEC Birmingham.
49:22
If you are going there, then look out for the STA stand, look out for the ST school stand.
49:29
And also I'll be presenting, oh, actually very similar to what I did at the conference.
49:34
I'll be giving mindful strides, which is communication skills.
49:36
If you work with runners, it's not just for runners, it's communication skills
49:39
because that kind of links to my CPD course.
49:41
So I think that's before Michelle Lyons, about three o'clock in the afternoon on day one.
49:45
So if you are at Therapy Expo and you're interested in that,
49:47
then come along to that and I'll see you there.
49:50
It's going to be very interactive. We're getting ready to speak.
49:52
I can't wait. I don't want to give too much away. I love stuff like that.
49:56
I love the interactive stuff.
49:58
I'm going to be presented with a hall of people who just come there to sit down
50:00
and not say anything. I'm just going to turn it around on their heads.
50:03
Perfect. Amazing. Can't wait.
50:04
Without engaging or getting them on my side at all. It's going to be classic.
50:07
It's going to be very cool. Can't wait for people to be uncomfortable.
50:09
It's good for you. Do it more.
50:12
I'm really looking forward to it. Right. Okay. Thanks, everyone who joined us
50:14
live. And once again, I mean, 260 episodes in a week, we couldn't do it without
50:17
the amazing downloads, which obviously give us a lot of encouragement.
50:21
And the feedback is really cool. If you listen to the podcast,
50:24
and thank you as well, just do please leave a rating and a review because it helps.
50:28
And the podcast just appear higher when people do Google searches. Simple as that.
50:31
More ratings and reviews, the more the wonderful words of our guests like Emily
50:35
Gilbert will appear if somebody puts in massage mentorship.
50:38
If you leave a good rating and review, bam, she gets up there at the top.
50:40
So it's all about just helping us get the good word of our guests out there
50:45
so do please leave a rating and review right hopefully we'll see some of you
50:49
next tuesday on facebook or the sports association youtube channel until then
50:54
take care of yourselves and take care of.