Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Phil Lynott: The Journey of Thin Lizzy's Iconic Frontman [Episode 251]

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Phil Lynott: The Journey of Thin Lizzy's Iconic Frontman [Episode 251] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: We're totally boomed rock and roll.
0:04
Speaker 2: I mean got to leave you. You're reading Little Hands
0:06
Speaker 2: says it's time to rock and.
0:07
Speaker 1: Roll, roll out.
0:09
Speaker 2: I totally booked.
0:15
Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast
0:18
Speaker 1: for those about to read and rock. Ameerk Senich. Find
0:21
Speaker 1: every episode of Booked on Rock in audio and video
0:23
Speaker 1: at bookdown rock dot com. Also be sure to subscribe
0:26
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to Booked on Rock where you get
0:29
Speaker 1: your favorite podcast, and also on the bookdown Rock YouTube channel.
0:33
Speaker 1: You can find that at bookdown Rock links to all
0:35
Speaker 1: of those on the website. Author Alan Byrne is a
0:39
Speaker 1: first time guest. He has a new book on the
0:41
Speaker 1: late great Phil Line It called Philip Line It Renegade.
0:46
Speaker 1: This is a brand new edition of the book, originally
0:48
Speaker 1: released in twenty twelve. It's the story of the pioneering
0:51
Speaker 1: Irish musician from his early days on his beloved Dublin
0:54
Speaker 1: music scene through the adventurous days of Finn Lizzie, the
0:57
Speaker 1: band he led for thirteen years. Once mainstream success came
1:01
Speaker 1: his way with Thin Lizzie's Powerhouse Jailbreak album in nineteen
1:04
Speaker 1: seventy six, his musical thirst only heightened and this book
1:08
Speaker 1: also offers an intimate insight into his musical experimentation beyond
1:12
Speaker 1: the Thin Lizzy framework, from the slow burn of his
1:14
Speaker 1: rise with Thin Lizzie to the unfortunate and unnecessary outcome
1:18
Speaker 1: of his short life. Renegade offers a vantage point from
1:21
Speaker 1: the people who were by his side through it all.
1:24
Speaker 1: You can find a playlist of Thin Lizzy and Phil
1:26
Speaker 1: lineup in this episode show notes. Welcome to the podcast.
1:31
Speaker 2: Allan, thanks a million, Eric, appreciate it.
1:33
Speaker 1: Before we get to the book, tell us how you
1:35
Speaker 1: became a fan of Phil lined it.
1:37
Speaker 2: Sure well, Lizzie, really, we're always in my house growing up.
1:42
Speaker 2: So it's really you know, when you start getting into
1:44
Speaker 2: music and taking an interest, I suppose before you have
1:48
Speaker 2: money to buy your own stuff for to buy whatever
1:52
Speaker 2: it's contemporary, you just go with. You know what's in
1:55
Speaker 2: your house, what's in your friend's house, and everything like that. Really,
1:58
Speaker 2: and that's on tap in my house.
2:02
Speaker 1: It's important to know where did you grow up.
2:05
Speaker 2: I grew up in a place called carry Aline, County Cork,
2:07
Speaker 2: which is the way down south in Ireland.
2:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. I say that because here in the States it's
2:14
Speaker 1: a big difference. Thin Lizzy here and Thin Lizzy in
2:16
Speaker 1: Ireland it's much different. We were just chatting about that
2:19
Speaker 1: before we started recording. Why isn't this band more known
2:22
Speaker 1: here in the States. People know Thin Lizzy for the
2:25
Speaker 1: Boys are Back in Town, jail Break gets play on
2:27
Speaker 1: the rock radio stations in the States. When you look
2:30
Speaker 1: at the body of work there, I mean, there are
2:32
Speaker 1: plenty of songs that could have been huge hits on
2:35
Speaker 1: the radio. Maybe not necessarily crossover top forty singles maybe,
2:39
Speaker 1: but certainly rock radio singles. And it's still it's one
2:42
Speaker 1: of those things. It's kind of mind boggling that why
2:45
Speaker 1: it never happened.
2:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, they you know, they went out there
2:48
Speaker 2: there in seventy five, there, seventy six, seventy seven, they
2:52
Speaker 2: did go out there on tour. I think the last
2:53
Speaker 2: time was in nineteen eighty. But they always had you know,
2:56
Speaker 2: they always had problems. You know, Phil got I mean,
2:59
Speaker 2: particularly if you're talking about you know, the Boys are
3:02
Speaker 2: back in Town that era. You know, they did a
3:04
Speaker 2: bit of the tour and then they you know, they
3:06
Speaker 2: were adding dates to it and continuing and Phil got hepatitis.
3:10
Speaker 2: The next time, Brian Robertson injured his hand before going
3:14
Speaker 2: on a tour by luck. I think they ended up
3:17
Speaker 2: going out in nineteen seventy seven with Queen after attending
3:21
Speaker 2: they attended. I think it was a day at the races,
3:23
Speaker 2: the Queen album launch, and one thing led to another
3:26
Speaker 2: and they ended up going out to the States, maybe
3:29
Speaker 2: six weeks later than planned. But you know, Phil got hepatitis.
3:33
Speaker 2: However he got that is open to debate. So you know,
3:36
Speaker 2: Robo injured his hand. Gary Moore later walked out, so
3:40
Speaker 2: they I'm not sure if you can totally call what
3:42
Speaker 2: happened with them in the state's bad luck. If they
3:45
Speaker 2: had book tours and they're meant to go out there
3:46
Speaker 2: and people are eventually going to doubt that they're going
3:49
Speaker 2: to turn up, that's kind of what happened.
3:52
Speaker 1: There was an original edition of this book came out
3:54
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. Tell us about what's in this brain
3:56
Speaker 1: new edition which you say is remixed and reconfigured.
4:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the original book came at twenty twelve. It
4:03
Speaker 2: was done by an Irish publisher. It was only published
4:05
Speaker 2: actually in Ireland in terms of being on the bookshelves.
4:08
Speaker 2: It wasn't on bookshelves anywhere else. But you know, you
4:11
Speaker 2: got it online. What we did basically was we had
4:15
Speaker 2: a look at a LinkedIn with his publisher, Sonic Bond,
4:18
Speaker 2: and Stephen Lamb is the main guy there, and we
4:22
Speaker 2: just kind of he came up with a few suggestions
4:25
Speaker 2: in terms of what we can do to kinderby not
4:28
Speaker 2: necessarily update it, but kind of revise it and kind
4:32
Speaker 2: of refocus some of the coverage on it, because it's
4:35
Speaker 2: really a book about it's you know, even though it's fill,
4:39
Speaker 2: it's not Lizzy focused as much as the other books.
4:43
Speaker 2: It's really about the success when when you know, when
4:47
Speaker 2: Lizzy became successful commercially and you know, we're we're solid
4:52
Speaker 2: in that respect, he would then go off and do
4:54
Speaker 2: all these other things, you know, and he very quickly
4:57
Speaker 2: did that with Jeff Wayne and Nicking suddenly say so
5:01
Speaker 2: it was really about just kind of I had a
5:04
Speaker 2: collected new material from people who work would fill outside
5:07
Speaker 2: of Lizzie and it particularly the second half of the book,
5:11
Speaker 2: it was just about refocusing some aspects, particularly the collaborations
5:17
Speaker 2: he was doing, also stuff with video directors and you know,
5:22
Speaker 2: can re looking as well at Grand Slam, and you
5:25
Speaker 2: know what really was Grand Slam, you know, was it
5:29
Speaker 2: half hearted effort or kind of a whole hearted but
5:33
Speaker 2: just didn't get the reaction they needed.
5:35
Speaker 1: That was his first solo band, Grand Slam.
5:38
Speaker 2: Or the Grand Slam happened after Lizzie, just for.
5:41
Speaker 1: The first first post in Lizzie solo.
5:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they did all these I think there's maybe
5:48
Speaker 2: there could be upwards of about twenty five to thirty
5:50
Speaker 2: tracks somewhere around there. And they've never done really anything
5:54
Speaker 2: with them Bird Dedication. That song came out in nineteen
5:58
Speaker 2: ninety one. I think so they you know when I said,
6:02
Speaker 2: they just mean the his estate, you know, or you know,
6:06
Speaker 2: they haven't well, they haven't done anything that decided not
6:10
Speaker 2: to going.
6:11
Speaker 1: Back to the early days now The Thin Lizzie producer
6:13
Speaker 1: John Alcock wrote the forward to the first edition, and
6:15
Speaker 1: it's included in the new edition, and he said, quote,
6:18
Speaker 1: how much insight would it give to the reader on
6:20
Speaker 1: Phil's background and how his earlier life shaped this man
6:23
Speaker 1: who would become a poet, rocker, lyricist and driving force
6:27
Speaker 1: behind the pre eminent Irish rock band. The answer was
6:30
Speaker 1: a lot. The first few chapters revealed details of his
6:33
Speaker 1: background and influences of which I had no clue so
6:36
Speaker 1: talk about that. When and where was Phil Borne? What
6:38
Speaker 1: was his life like growing up?
6:40
Speaker 2: Well, the umble Phil was born in West Bromwich in England,
6:46
Speaker 2: kind of Burningham area. I think that so he spent
6:49
Speaker 2: you know, he was he was born there. But you know,
6:53
Speaker 2: his mom, I suppose as Britain herbalok and documented the
6:58
Speaker 2: tough you know times that you would have endured. You know,
7:01
Speaker 2: he was still over there. I think he was over
7:02
Speaker 2: there for five or six years or something. But she did.
7:05
Speaker 2: I remember her telling me, you know, she made the
7:07
Speaker 2: phone call home and asked her own mum if she
7:10
Speaker 2: would take Phil in and raise him in her home
7:14
Speaker 2: in Dublin. So and that's what happened, you know, over
7:18
Speaker 2: the course of in many years of research in it,
7:20
Speaker 2: because I've done a couple of other books on Lizzie
7:23
Speaker 2: and Phil, and you know, his his childhood of Beers
7:26
Speaker 2: had been you know, quite a happy one, you know,
7:30
Speaker 2: since kind of read in other places that he would
7:34
Speaker 2: have you know, he certainly would have stuck out as
7:37
Speaker 2: one of the few people of color I suppose in
7:41
Speaker 2: Dublin or Ireland at that time. But that, as his
7:45
Speaker 2: mom told me, I think that made him feel more
7:48
Speaker 2: special in some respects that he was you know, that
7:52
Speaker 2: he was different, but he was also you know, a
7:56
Speaker 2: member of family in Dublin.
7:57
Speaker 1: He also literally stood out right. How tall was he tall?
8:01
Speaker 2: He was six foot six one or somewhere. But then
8:04
Speaker 2: of course he had the boots, you know, flowing jackets
8:07
Speaker 2: as well, and of course the hair couldn't miss them.
8:10
Speaker 2: So you know, do you remember his mom actually saying
8:13
Speaker 2: that to me? You know, I think they're on holidays
8:15
Speaker 2: somewhere and you know, she'd be sitting on the sunbed,
8:18
Speaker 2: you know, and he'd a ripe over and there was
8:21
Speaker 2: a couple of times I think maybe he just he
8:22
Speaker 2: had a walkman and he you know, was playing her
8:25
Speaker 2: some tracks that he was working on or something, you know.
8:28
Speaker 2: But she did recall just you know, this hulking if
8:32
Speaker 2: you can imagine it with the cowboy boots and all
8:35
Speaker 2: the gear walking over pool side with you know, uh
8:39
Speaker 2: have to listen to this, see how see what you like?
8:41
Speaker 2: But yeah, she did, Yeah, there's kind of hulking. So
8:44
Speaker 2: he was about six foot. But I may add to
8:46
Speaker 2: it all day the paraphernalia.
8:49
Speaker 1: We had the rock star presence early on. We're recording
8:53
Speaker 1: this on a Saturday, so he probably would be at
8:55
Speaker 1: the cinemas right now as a kid, right talk about
8:58
Speaker 1: how the movies influenced his earlier artistic ambitions when he
9:01
Speaker 1: was a kid.
9:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were all obsessed. I think, you know, it's
9:05
Speaker 2: one of the things certainly here in Ireland I can
9:07
Speaker 2: relate to that usually because it was a weekly thing,
9:11
Speaker 2: you know, or even sometimes during the week. It's the
9:14
Speaker 2: ultimate escapism, really, isn't it. You know, you're going to
9:16
Speaker 2: the cinema, you have the cinema scope, you know, everything
9:21
Speaker 2: heroes on the big screen kind of thing, and you
9:24
Speaker 2: can hear everything. Of course came from America largely, you know,
9:30
Speaker 2: if you were going to the cinema, and he had
9:32
Speaker 2: the look as well when you're living in Dublin, because
9:35
Speaker 2: back then films often took you know, it's only when
9:39
Speaker 2: they ran out of audience in Dublin that a lot
9:42
Speaker 2: of these films traveled to other cinemas across the country.
9:46
Speaker 2: So somebody could be watching let's say The Godfather. I
9:51
Speaker 2: don't remember hearing that story from a few people. The Godfather.
9:54
Speaker 2: Let's say I was playing in Dublin in January, for instance,
9:58
Speaker 2: and it didn't come down to Cork until so he
10:01
Speaker 2: would have had the first DIBs or anybody else and
10:04
Speaker 2: dune for looking at these, you know, cinematic heroes on
10:08
Speaker 2: the big screen. You can hear a lot of influence.
10:11
Speaker 2: You can hear him singing. Actually, you can hear him
10:14
Speaker 2: and how America influenced on his nunciation, I think, which
10:18
Speaker 2: you'll hear quite a lot of with the stripped back versions.
10:23
Speaker 2: They did a box out there a couple of months
10:24
Speaker 2: back with the jail Breaking Johnny the Fox albums, and
10:28
Speaker 2: they've stripped back a few of the songs and he
10:31
Speaker 2: sings in a very American way.
10:33
Speaker 1: The song seemed to be story driven, right, they're driven
10:37
Speaker 1: like a movie, like a mini movie.
10:40
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, lyrically he did that, and I think a
10:43
Speaker 2: bit of that got lost later on, but he certainly
10:46
Speaker 2: did that. There's there's very strong storytelling in that, certainly
10:50
Speaker 2: in the DECA period with Eric Bell a very naive
10:54
Speaker 2: kind of youthful storytelling. But then when they go to
10:59
Speaker 2: the four piece and America hits him, look at Ammer.
11:04
Speaker 2: You can definitely hear the change is happening. It's it's interesting,
11:09
Speaker 2: you know, there's so many different iterations of Lizzy.
11:12
Speaker 1: How far back does it go in terms of his poetry,
11:14
Speaker 1: When did he start doing that?
11:17
Speaker 2: He would have started going like he was a teenager
11:20
Speaker 2: doing that in Dublin. Like when you think of it, two,
11:23
Speaker 2: like he was in his first band when he was
11:25
Speaker 2: thirteen or fourteen. You know, is that the Black Eagles
11:28
Speaker 2: Like Eagles. Yeah, he's been ferried around by you know,
11:34
Speaker 2: the dad of two of the other band members, and
11:36
Speaker 2: they're you know, they're they've been driven around. They're on
11:40
Speaker 2: the circuit. They're getting a taste for what all this
11:42
Speaker 2: is about. You know that that must have been an
11:44
Speaker 2: incredible experience.
11:45
Speaker 1: You know, you did you talk about the Black Eagles
11:48
Speaker 1: and how it had a positive impact on him. You said,
11:53
Speaker 1: the positive impact that the Black Eagles experience had on
11:56
Speaker 1: Philip in his apprenticeship as a singer can't be overstated.
11:59
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that?
12:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, because number one, you know, it's an easy thing
12:04
Speaker 2: to do, to get up and perform. He wasn't naturally
12:10
Speaker 2: and you'll see that in the early Lizzy stuff front man.
12:14
Speaker 2: He was certainly in that early period. You know, he
12:18
Speaker 2: had these he was using all these gimmicks. You know,
12:22
Speaker 2: he'd have something like Michael Jackson did much later on.
12:26
Speaker 2: You know, they with the glove, you know, they sparkly
12:29
Speaker 2: glove and all this kind of thing. They they had
12:31
Speaker 2: particular outfits and all that kind of thing. But he,
12:36
Speaker 2: somebody said to me, most curious of people that kind
12:39
Speaker 2: of way, you know, down in the markets, getting in
12:42
Speaker 2: touch with clothing. And because his Jesus, he always dressed superbly,
12:47
Speaker 2: you know, no matter what market is. Love. He was
12:49
Speaker 2: always very keen in that sense. But Black Eagles as
12:53
Speaker 2: an apprenticeship had and you're getting the greatest of experiences.
12:58
Speaker 2: You're being ferried around here with you know, lands your
13:01
Speaker 2: own age or a teenager. So but he was just
13:04
Speaker 2: out front scene. You know. He wasn't playing an instrument
13:07
Speaker 2: or anything like that.
13:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. He wasn't playing bass at that time.
13:11
Speaker 2: No, no long that's you know, that's a few years
13:14
Speaker 2: away yet.
13:15
Speaker 1: But he was getting that, he was getting noticed. I mean,
13:17
Speaker 1: he was fairly popular in the area, right, He was.
13:21
Speaker 2: Very popular with the girls, right and I think you know,
13:26
Speaker 2: as time went on, because they didn't really go outside
13:29
Speaker 2: of Dublin too much, so you know, plus of school
13:33
Speaker 2: the next day. So you know, it's bizarre to think
13:37
Speaker 2: about that, you know, kind of fourteen, fifteen and sixteen
13:41
Speaker 2: and all that kind of thing, and you're out. But
13:44
Speaker 2: I mean he would have left left school as a
13:46
Speaker 2: teenager anyway, and you know started to to as you
13:50
Speaker 2: were talking earlier about the poetry scene, you know, only
13:55
Speaker 2: hooked up with like minded people. You know, Tim Booth
13:59
Speaker 2: from a band called Doctor Strangely Strange, and he would
14:02
Speaker 2: go to readings that were held in various pubs and
14:07
Speaker 2: across the city. So there was a combination of very
14:11
Speaker 2: different things going on with the poetry. And sometimes he
14:13
Speaker 2: would sit in with an acoustic guitar and just you know,
14:18
Speaker 2: gig for a couple of points in a bank of Chris.
14:21
Speaker 1: Book on Rock podcast, We'll be back after this patience boys,
14:25
Speaker 1: All good things to those who wait. It's while fills
14:33
Speaker 1: in a band called Orphanage with drummer Brian Downing that
14:36
Speaker 1: he meets a guitarist named Eric Bell. He's looking at
14:39
Speaker 1: former band inspired by Cream and Jimmy Hendrix. Can you
14:42
Speaker 1: tell us about how this leads to the formation of
14:44
Speaker 1: Finn Lizzie.
14:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you've you've got Eric Bell, who's at this
14:49
Speaker 2: point in time, he's playing in a show band. Show band.
14:51
Speaker 2: It's basically in Ireland. A particular sensation in the nineteen
14:57
Speaker 2: sixty will still around, I suppose in Summer's but they
15:01
Speaker 2: he was in a band called the Dreams, and but
15:04
Speaker 2: they played covers. A show band basically is a covers band,
15:07
Speaker 2: but they play what would be top forty hits of
15:11
Speaker 2: the day. That's essentially what show bands did. They cornered
15:16
Speaker 2: a particular circuit in Ireland, which were the ballrooms. You know,
15:20
Speaker 2: you might so they you know, they've held a decent
15:24
Speaker 2: quantity capacity of people. You might get a thousand in there,
15:28
Speaker 2: you could get more so Eric. But the thing, there's
15:31
Speaker 2: a repetitive nature to that, you know, playing top forty
15:34
Speaker 2: songs or certainly you know you certainly didn't play any
15:37
Speaker 2: original material. That just it wasn't the focus of what
15:40
Speaker 2: those bands were to do. So that left bands like
15:45
Speaker 2: the Orphanage or any other band really who were trying
15:48
Speaker 2: to perform original material. That left them really with the
15:51
Speaker 2: pubs and the club circuits. So the capacities here at
15:55
Speaker 2: the falloffs are you know, they're huge in terms of
15:59
Speaker 2: the amount of people you'll get into these places. But
16:02
Speaker 2: Eric Bell, essentially he just decided, I don't want to
16:05
Speaker 2: do this anymore, and we quit The Dreams gave him
16:09
Speaker 2: his notice. They used to call a job in the
16:12
Speaker 2: show bands a job for life, like the civil service
16:15
Speaker 2: or something like that, you know, but he did recall that,
16:18
Speaker 2: you know, the manager was very very of The manager
16:22
Speaker 2: of the Dreams was you know, quite a nice about it,
16:26
Speaker 2: and gave him an amp, like Eric Bell didn't have
16:28
Speaker 2: his own amp when he left to how are you
16:31
Speaker 2: going to form a band? You know? Do you own
16:33
Speaker 2: your own guitar? Do you have an amp? Do you
16:35
Speaker 2: have any idea who you want in your band? You know,
16:38
Speaker 2: I mean it's the ultimate and dreaming, you know, and hoping.
16:43
Speaker 2: But you know, he did that. He went around and
16:45
Speaker 2: started hanging on the pubs and clubs were original musicians
16:49
Speaker 2: or lands performing original material with playing and ultimately, let's
16:55
Speaker 2: say towards the end of his patients and certainly his
16:58
Speaker 2: budget isn't always say that he was running out of money,
17:02
Speaker 2: and you know, it was just I think Brian Downey
17:06
Speaker 2: wasn't initially interested. And Phil called him back and said, look,
17:12
Speaker 2: let's give.
17:12
Speaker 1: It a gum under one condition, right though, Phil, Phil said,
17:16
Speaker 1: I got to write some songs. You gotta you gotta
17:18
Speaker 1: let me have some participation here.
17:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know he was learning to play bass
17:23
Speaker 2: at that point, but he also wanted to play bass, so.
17:26
Speaker 1: That was the other thing.
17:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk about I don't want to say the stars
17:29
Speaker 2: are lining, but you know, Eric Bell always said, you know, Phills,
17:33
Speaker 2: he was meant to be, you know, one person who's
17:36
Speaker 2: sitting around on his night off, his only night off
17:38
Speaker 2: for the week. I think the Monday decides, you know,
17:42
Speaker 2: I want to do something completely different musically. Eric Bell
17:46
Speaker 2: is the trigger for Thin Lizzy. He's the he's the
17:50
Speaker 2: guy who's setting things in motion. And you know, upon
17:55
Speaker 2: chatting and meeting Phil and Brian Downey but also Eric Rickson,
17:59
Speaker 2: the keyboard player to join them for a short time
18:02
Speaker 2: for maybe six months.
18:03
Speaker 1: Mentioned the lyrics. Phil's lyrics that he could create characters
18:07
Speaker 1: like what he would see in films, but he also
18:09
Speaker 1: injected his first hand experiences into them. And you cite
18:12
Speaker 1: the song Little Girl in Bloom as an example in
18:16
Speaker 1: the book of this talk about that particular song and
18:18
Speaker 1: why you zeroed in on that one.
18:21
Speaker 2: It's very it sounds very interesting to listen to that
18:23
Speaker 2: era with Lizzy. It's a great if you have the
18:26
Speaker 2: time or make the time kind of thing to listen
18:29
Speaker 2: to the first you know, the first album you have
18:32
Speaker 2: an ep I think in between the second album. If
18:34
Speaker 2: you listen to them consecutively, there's a lovely picture painted
18:39
Speaker 2: of just as because their all Philms lyrics, so the
18:42
Speaker 2: story of his life, you know, you don't really get
18:46
Speaker 2: you know, in certain bands, you know, the individual credits
18:49
Speaker 2: come into it as a writer, they also write the lyrics.
18:53
Speaker 2: You know, Lizzie was Phil's lyrics, so you know, he's
18:56
Speaker 2: writing his own life. So we don't really get a
18:58
Speaker 2: perspective on the other members as much as we do
19:01
Speaker 2: want to fill. A little girl in Bloom could be
19:06
Speaker 2: I've often felt, you know, it's Philled speaking to his
19:08
Speaker 2: own mother, but also possibly because at the time, when
19:12
Speaker 2: he was a teenager he did he was in a
19:14
Speaker 2: relationship and had a child with that girl. That child
19:19
Speaker 2: was put up for adoption, and maybe she too was
19:25
Speaker 2: the little girl in Bloom. You know, he could be
19:28
Speaker 2: wonderfully ambiguous with his lyrics and you know, you can't
19:32
Speaker 2: say it's about that person, but you also I can't
19:35
Speaker 2: say it's not about that person. So I think I
19:38
Speaker 2: mean that I think that's a that's a skill that
19:41
Speaker 2: that he just got better and better and better.
19:44
Speaker 1: I just added it to the playlist here because I
19:46
Speaker 1: put together a playlist of songs for the episode, and
19:49
Speaker 1: that's one that I've got in there. That's the same album. Well,
19:52
Speaker 1: that's from the same album as Whisky in the Jar
19:55
Speaker 1: Randosh Tango the Rocker that era.
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Vagabones Albumagabon, which is great. They released a
20:02
Speaker 2: box set of that I think You're in November twenty
20:06
Speaker 2: twenty three or thereabouts, so it's an expanded set of
20:10
Speaker 2: that album with artwork, you know, additional artwork. That would
20:14
Speaker 2: have been the first album where Jim Fitzpatrick kim in
20:17
Speaker 2: and did the cover, which is I think one of
20:20
Speaker 2: their better ones.
20:21
Speaker 1: Ye, it's cool cover. What do you think of the
20:22
Speaker 1: first album that first? It's the self titled one from
20:25
Speaker 1: seventy one. The Farmer was I think a single, But
20:29
Speaker 1: the one that stood out to me, I think most
20:31
Speaker 1: that sounded maybe most thin Lizzy like, was look what
20:33
Speaker 1: the Wind blew in? At least in terms of what
20:36
Speaker 1: they would become.
20:37
Speaker 2: That's it. I'm not sure if that's the way to
20:40
Speaker 2: look at those albums. A different sound, completely different band, really,
20:45
Speaker 2: and you have often you know, just chatting with friends
20:48
Speaker 2: or we're in Dublin at the Vibe or something like that.
20:51
Speaker 2: There is that thing of comparing the Eric Bell era
20:55
Speaker 2: sound or songs with the more aggressive Thin Lizzy that
21:00
Speaker 2: started from Nightlife in nineteen seventy four on. And it's
21:04
Speaker 2: not I think it needs to be seen or viewed
21:07
Speaker 2: and listened to by itself and not. It's just it's
21:11
Speaker 2: it's not compared folk, right it is, yeah, and it's
21:15
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, as you said, there look with
21:17
Speaker 2: the wind blew in. There is that aggression with it.
21:20
Speaker 2: Great song, but again it's quite different to I don't
21:25
Speaker 2: think anything that came after. I think the closest thing
21:28
Speaker 2: that between that initial Tin Lizzy and I suppose what
21:32
Speaker 2: people call the classic years with Robertson and gorm You've
21:37
Speaker 2: got a couple of singles there in between, the Walker,
21:40
Speaker 2: Little Darly. They're kind of the songs that are gravitating
21:43
Speaker 2: towards where Phil's writing was going. But the other things,
21:47
Speaker 2: I almost feel that they should just be looked at
21:51
Speaker 2: nearly separately to what Tin Lizzy became for the last
21:54
Speaker 2: ten years.
21:55
Speaker 1: The pinnacle of their early success was with nineteen seventy
21:58
Speaker 1: two's Whiskey in the Job That's a cover went to
22:02
Speaker 1: number six in the UK, but no matter what they tried,
22:05
Speaker 1: they couldn't follow up with another hit single for a
22:07
Speaker 1: while five Records, they're still feeling that pressure to come
22:10
Speaker 1: up with a big selling album, a big single for
22:13
Speaker 1: the radio. Now under Vertigo Records, they know the final
22:17
Speaker 1: album under their contract had to deliver, and they delivered
22:21
Speaker 1: with seventy six's Jailbreak, which includes the title track and
22:24
Speaker 1: the huge single the Boys Are Back in Town. This
22:27
Speaker 1: is where we need to talk about producer John Alcock
22:29
Speaker 1: and his influence. What was it that he did for
22:32
Speaker 1: the band and feel in particular that made the difference.
22:35
Speaker 2: Just to wind it back just slightly with Vangamonds, it
22:39
Speaker 2: took three albums to get to kind of what is
22:43
Speaker 2: probably the pinnacle of the Eric bell era albums. You know,
22:46
Speaker 2: first album, I quite like second one parts of it.
22:51
Speaker 2: I think Vagamon's is a super above UNLESSI then regroup
22:55
Speaker 2: after Eric leaves. It then takes them of another three
22:59
Speaker 2: albums or to you know the two whether finding the
23:03
Speaker 2: threed and on the third just I think like like
23:06
Speaker 2: on the third album of the decadeal they hit and
23:10
Speaker 2: they hit quite big. The same could be applied, you know,
23:14
Speaker 2: in terms of that sequence for the lead up to
23:17
Speaker 2: The Boys Back and Down. John Alcock was well, he
23:21
Speaker 2: was a producer who had kind of pedigree. He'd worked
23:23
Speaker 2: with the who he'd worked I think a lot with
23:25
Speaker 2: John Intwistle. He was someone who basically Pill would kind
23:30
Speaker 2: of have to answer to. I think they'll always work
23:33
Speaker 2: best with somebody who had who had chops as it were,
23:37
Speaker 2: like later on a bit Visconti when he when they
23:41
Speaker 2: Lizzie did the albums with Wisconty. Wisconty was a very
23:44
Speaker 2: successful producer, you know, and arguably didn't need hun Lizzie
23:48
Speaker 2: on his CV. And therefore, to my mind, their best
23:53
Speaker 2: work was was produced with people who were as good,
23:58
Speaker 2: if not better than them what they did. They also
24:01
Speaker 2: made a couple of key decisions, but particularly Alcock. You know,
24:04
Speaker 2: they did the meetings. He went, they met, he met Phil,
24:09
Speaker 2: He played him a bunch of demos. So Alcock determines,
24:12
Speaker 2: you know, is there an album there? Have you got
24:13
Speaker 2: the songs in place? Phil's writing at this point is
24:16
Speaker 2: very different to even Nightlife. You know, it has jumped
24:21
Speaker 2: on quite significantly. It's always it's getting that bit more aggressive.
24:25
Speaker 2: But John Alcock, you know, he goes to sees the band.
24:28
Speaker 2: He you know, they get on. But they also do
24:31
Speaker 2: another key thing I think, which is he takes the
24:35
Speaker 2: band out to Ramport Studios, which was outside London, so
24:38
Speaker 2: they don't have there's no distractions there, you know, and
24:41
Speaker 2: they're in what was then a very rundown part of London.
24:45
Speaker 2: There's one pub locally and if they want to blow
24:47
Speaker 2: off steam, they walk up the road to that pub.
24:50
Speaker 2: They're not going anywhere else. So the focus, like Jailbreak
24:53
Speaker 2: was recorded thinking about six weeks. You know, it's something
24:56
Speaker 2: ridiculous when you think of how that kind of has
25:00
Speaker 2: changed in death Lepard or someone. Do they take four
25:04
Speaker 2: or five years?
25:05
Speaker 1: Wonder guns and Roses? The famous story with Chinese democracy.
25:10
Speaker 2: Christ, I mean that was was that twelve.
25:13
Speaker 1: Thirteen years something like that? Yeah, And I remember.
25:16
Speaker 2: When I bought I bought it and I heard it
25:17
Speaker 2: and I was like, that shouldn't have taken that long,
25:20
Speaker 2: you know, jeez. That's that's a perfect example.
25:23
Speaker 1: You know.
25:23
Speaker 2: So they they're sitting and they're focused, but they also
25:26
Speaker 2: know what's you know, what's coming if they don't get it.
25:28
Speaker 1: Together pressure, yeah, because they would have been let go,
25:32
Speaker 1: not re signed.
25:33
Speaker 2: Exactly, you know, and that that was absolutely the case.
25:38
Speaker 2: Then you know, sometimes maybe they were at that point.
25:42
Speaker 2: You know, Phil is what he's twenty five, twenty six
25:46
Speaker 2: years of age, and he's the oldest, so the other lads,
25:50
Speaker 2: you know, maybe do you feel that pressure at that
25:52
Speaker 2: age or are you just going to concentrate on maybe
25:55
Speaker 2: too much in what you're doing, And then maybe it's
25:56
Speaker 2: on reflection you see only shit we pulled a but
26:00
Speaker 2: of the bag.
26:01
Speaker 1: I think that age at the age of thirty is
26:03
Speaker 1: when you start getting closer to that You're thinking, is
26:07
Speaker 1: this where I'm supposed to be? Is this the direction
26:09
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to go in? Maybe I need to change?
26:11
Speaker 1: But then boys are back in town. Of course we
26:13
Speaker 1: know what happens. And that's a perfect example of a
26:16
Speaker 1: song that was only partially complete before entering the studio.
26:19
Speaker 1: Can you talk about how this song comes to be
26:21
Speaker 1: in the studio and what was it before that? I
26:23
Speaker 1: think I think half the song was done, you say
26:25
Speaker 1: in the.
26:25
Speaker 2: Book, yeah, because I mean you can argue that was
26:29
Speaker 2: the case for most of the tracks. But they've demoed
26:33
Speaker 2: X amount of songs, and certainly more than were on
26:35
Speaker 2: the album, but they also have carryover from previous sessions.
26:40
Speaker 2: You know, as far as I can remember, I think
26:43
Speaker 2: they were playing the they were playing the riff for
26:46
Speaker 2: Johnny the Fox and Johnny Fox meets Jimmy the Weed.
26:49
Speaker 2: I think they were messing around with that in nineteen
26:51
Speaker 2: seventy four. And there's some stuff after which I think
26:56
Speaker 2: is Dancing in the Moonlight. They were messing around with
26:58
Speaker 2: that during the Johnny the Fox sessions they had they
27:01
Speaker 2: brought the Boys of Back in Town. I mean, there's
27:04
Speaker 2: so many stories about that and that it wasn't necessarily
27:07
Speaker 2: considered for inclusion on the album, but that would be
27:11
Speaker 2: in its unfinished state. You know, we have no idea
27:16
Speaker 2: just how advanced whatever recording they would have made, most
27:20
Speaker 2: likely basic backing tracks and maybe a guide vocal to
27:26
Speaker 2: even parts of it. And I wonder if that's what
27:29
Speaker 2: Chris o'dnald, they're one of their managers at the time,
27:32
Speaker 2: would have heard. Well, the story goes that he liked
27:36
Speaker 2: it and asked them to develop it and consider including
27:39
Speaker 2: it on the album.
27:40
Speaker 1: Was this about when the band would come back after
27:43
Speaker 1: a tour. The Boys are back in town or is
27:46
Speaker 1: it's about the life on the road.
27:48
Speaker 2: But again we're going back to phil and leaving it
27:51
Speaker 2: kind of open ended. The boys of back in Town
27:53
Speaker 2: is I think as much about Tin Lizzie and about
27:55
Speaker 2: their fans as it is about anything you'd like it
27:58
Speaker 2: to be. You know, a bunch of people in a way,
28:00
Speaker 2: as you said on the road, it.
28:02
Speaker 1: Could be yeah, they're back in your town. The boys
28:06
Speaker 1: aren't back in their town. They're back in your town.
28:08
Speaker 1: They're ready to play yeah or already. He also came
28:13
Speaker 1: up with lyrics last minute. Isn't that what you were
28:15
Speaker 1: saying in the book? Most of the time he would
28:18
Speaker 1: wait until the end.
28:19
Speaker 2: He would It's quite funny actually when you when you
28:23
Speaker 2: hear certain things. I think you'll be able to hear
28:25
Speaker 2: them on the various kind of deluxe editions or box
28:29
Speaker 2: sets that they've been putting out for the last ten
28:31
Speaker 2: years or so, and you'll find lyrics from We'll go
28:35
Speaker 2: to live recordings, even we'll find lyrics from I think
28:39
Speaker 2: they did it. They released something. It was called Live
28:42
Speaker 2: and Derby Live, and I think it is. It's from nineteen.
28:46
Speaker 2: It's on the Fighting Tour and it's leading up to
28:49
Speaker 2: just before the sessions for what became the Jailbreak album.
28:52
Speaker 2: But there's a song it's still in Love with You.
28:56
Speaker 2: I think it's the song that they play in this
28:58
Speaker 2: on this live album, but he ends up singing verses
29:02
Speaker 2: that he would later use in I think it's the
29:05
Speaker 2: with Love track from the Black Rose album. There's lyrics
29:09
Speaker 2: for out for Lizzie songs that were outtakes from nineteen
29:12
Speaker 2: seventy four. I think for the Fighting or nightloub for
29:15
Speaker 2: Fighting album. It's a song called leaving Town and it's that.
29:18
Speaker 2: I think it's fighting that might have been a reject
29:20
Speaker 2: for but they never released any of it. But he
29:23
Speaker 2: disassembled the lyrics from Leaving Town and he dispersed it
29:27
Speaker 2: these various other songs, which is fascinating and to very
29:32
Speaker 2: good effect.
29:32
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned he was under a lot of
29:34
Speaker 1: pressure at that time. Is this when his alcohol and
29:37
Speaker 1: drug abuse start to worsen?
29:38
Speaker 2: I didn't say that. But the more success you have
29:42
Speaker 2: in that industry, the more that that kind of thing
29:44
Speaker 2: is going to there's more doors opening, you know, there's
29:47
Speaker 2: more opportunity. So I mean it's up to you or
29:50
Speaker 2: you wanted to, you know, say yes or say no.
29:53
Speaker 2: One whatever you want to do. But like Lizzie, were
29:56
Speaker 2: always they were never living guys really per se, you know,
30:02
Speaker 2: so if they but you know as you do in
30:04
Speaker 2: your twenties, I think and certainly with the opportunities that
30:07
Speaker 2: came their way, they were doing what everybody else was
30:10
Speaker 2: doing in that industry at that time.
30:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's more when he he gets married
30:15
Speaker 1: and has a child, then the responsibilities are at it.
30:18
Speaker 1: I think right as you say, when responsibility came knocking,
30:21
Speaker 1: he frequently chose not to answer the door. And this
30:23
Speaker 1: is in reference to his growing drug habit, an attempt
30:27
Speaker 1: to escape the responsibilities that encircled him. And can you
30:29
Speaker 1: explain on that. Why do you think that was? Where
30:31
Speaker 1: did that self destruction come from?
30:34
Speaker 2: Well, to begin with, I think he was probably you know,
30:38
Speaker 2: philed out in nineteen eighty six, we had hepatitis at
30:41
Speaker 2: seventy six, Like he was probably hitting it hard for
30:44
Speaker 2: ten years. But you know, you dabbled, you know, whereas
30:48
Speaker 2: the line of where it comes the point where boy,
30:51
Speaker 2: you're no longer in control of what you're doing. I
30:53
Speaker 2: think there was a lot of things kind of coalesced,
30:56
Speaker 2: you know, particularly after Black Roles. If you take the
30:59
Speaker 2: China to an album from nineteen eighty, I can like it,
31:03
Speaker 2: and I can also be very frustrated with it. I
31:06
Speaker 2: don't understand quite a lot of the marketing of what
31:10
Speaker 2: they were up to back then. Like they released a
31:12
Speaker 2: single I think in the spring of nineteen eighty. The
31:16
Speaker 2: album didn't come out. I think until October nineteen eighty
31:19
Speaker 2: they released another single as a taster. I think that
31:23
Speaker 2: was Killer on the Loose.
31:24
Speaker 1: That was the second single. I think the title track
31:26
Speaker 1: was the first.
31:27
Speaker 2: One the person. Yeah, so if the first if Chinatown
31:31
Speaker 2: as a single came out in spring thereabouts nineteen eighty,
31:35
Speaker 2: they then released another single and then the album follows,
31:39
Speaker 2: and then there's no more so there's no sustain There's
31:43
Speaker 2: no way that you know, for them to sustain the album.
31:46
Speaker 2: So the album kind of even though it went Top
31:49
Speaker 2: ten in the UK, it didn't really hang around as
31:51
Speaker 2: long as Black Roles at that point. You know, you've
31:55
Speaker 2: also got Snowy White in the band. After you know,
31:58
Speaker 2: Robbo is gone, Gary Moore is gone. There's a few
32:01
Speaker 2: people come in viduor commentary a little bit. Dave Fled
32:05
Speaker 2: from mantred Man came in, and you've got a lot
32:08
Speaker 2: of disorder, and it's really from there on that doesn't
32:12
Speaker 2: seem to be the growth that you saw between nineteen
32:15
Speaker 2: seventy four and nineteen seventy eight seventy. It just becomes
32:18
Speaker 2: something a little bit different.
32:19
Speaker 1: Snowy White's interesting. I don't know if there's ever been
32:21
Speaker 1: a book on him, but he's got that was around
32:23
Speaker 1: the time he was in Pink Floyd to in nineteen eighty.
32:25
Speaker 1: He's on the wall door.
32:28
Speaker 2: I love some of the stuff that he did, you know,
32:30
Speaker 2: and as you said, you know, he's it's funny. You know,
32:33
Speaker 2: he's a blues guitar player. Eric Bell is a blues
32:36
Speaker 2: guitar player. So they they kind of go less for
32:39
Speaker 2: the aggressive Robbo and Gorham combo and then Gorham and
32:44
Speaker 2: Gary Moore, so they kind of revert. But it doesn't
32:47
Speaker 2: really work, you know, commercially at least. But you know,
32:51
Speaker 2: some dread songs in China down and equally the room
32:53
Speaker 2: Gate album.
32:54
Speaker 1: You know, the title track to Chinatown is great, yeah, yeah,
32:58
Speaker 1: and it's Killna Lews there, you know.
33:01
Speaker 2: The you know, if you look at it, and what
33:04
Speaker 2: would be the third single to help sustain that album.
33:09
Speaker 1: Podcast will be back after this author Alan Byrne brand
33:16
Speaker 1: new book Philip Line at Renegade, The Late Great Philip Line.
33:21
Speaker 1: It interesting you the title Philip. Did everybody calls them
33:25
Speaker 1: phil Was there a reason behind the full first name? Yeah.
33:30
Speaker 2: The majority of people I've ever spoken to call him Philip,
33:32
Speaker 2: So it's which was always interesting to me. His his
33:36
Speaker 2: mom is Philip. If you listen to Jim Fitzpatrick with Philip.
33:40
Speaker 2: But I mean there's plenty he called him phil as well,
33:42
Speaker 2: certainly in just conversations I had, but a load of
33:46
Speaker 2: people said Philip, And there's a there's a few stories
33:49
Speaker 2: as well saying that he prefer he didn't particularly like
33:52
Speaker 2: being called phil I preferred Philip.
33:54
Speaker 1: You preferred Philip, like Eddie van Hale and always said
33:57
Speaker 1: I prefer Edward Edward. Yeah, yeah, Before I ask about
34:03
Speaker 1: philip solo work, what led to the end of Finn
34:05
Speaker 1: Lizzy in nineteen eighty three, I think maybe you were
34:07
Speaker 1: kind of going there, maybe they reached their creative plateau.
34:11
Speaker 2: Well, if you know, going back to marketing again too.
34:15
Speaker 2: In some respects Renegade was recorded. I think the first
34:19
Speaker 2: sessions of Renegade were they were your direction. They were
34:22
Speaker 2: up on Compass Point that famous studio out in Massa.
34:26
Speaker 1: That's where a CDC recorded Back in Black.
34:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, Grace Jones I think did some some of our
34:32
Speaker 2: most famous stuff out there, but they were essentially Phil
34:35
Speaker 2: and Lizzie went out there. There were a few times
34:38
Speaker 2: that were in there, I think nineteen seventy eight, nineteen
34:40
Speaker 2: seventy nine and nineteen eighty one and nineteen eighty one
34:44
Speaker 2: January then went out. Certainly there was a few of them,
34:46
Speaker 2: not all of them, and a few of them went
34:48
Speaker 2: out and they did what mainly ended up being Phil
34:53
Speaker 2: solo songs or I don't think some of them were
34:56
Speaker 2: released at all. So you've got the Renegade sessions take
35:00
Speaker 2: place throughout the year and they released it later in
35:03
Speaker 2: eighty one, but there's no single. There's no single preceding
35:06
Speaker 2: the album. I think the first single from it came
35:08
Speaker 2: out the months months after. I think it was maybe
35:12
Speaker 2: three months, four months, and that single, of course went nowhere.
35:16
Speaker 2: It certainly didn't make the top forty. I think it
35:18
Speaker 2: was fifty out of fifty three or four or something
35:19
Speaker 2: like that, and the song was Hollywood. So if you
35:24
Speaker 2: look at the album, I'm not sure if there's a
35:27
Speaker 2: single on it. So it doesn't surprise me.
35:30
Speaker 1: So I think there was not only single release from it.
35:33
Speaker 2: It has and so to release your lead single three
35:36
Speaker 2: months for four months after the album has been released,
35:39
Speaker 2: I mean that's you know, commercially, it just doesn't make
35:44
Speaker 2: any sense. So there's that. So, but ultimately that album
35:47
Speaker 2: was a commercial failure upon release. A band like Lizzie
35:52
Speaker 2: couldn't afford that in any way. But you know, Joina
35:56
Speaker 2: Zown wasn't as popular as a previous album. Renegade was
36:00
Speaker 2: less popular than Chinatown. It was at that point you
36:04
Speaker 2: had Kit Wolven. Kit Wolven the engineer on everything I
36:08
Speaker 2: Think from Life and Dangerous onward. Kit had a conversation
36:11
Speaker 2: with Philip in the Odyssey Recording studio. I think they're
36:15
Speaker 2: in the canteen that we're waiting for another band to
36:17
Speaker 2: come out, and Kit basically was frustrated and said it
36:23
Speaker 2: to Phil, you know, what are we doing today? Phil?
36:27
Speaker 2: At that point you wouldn't know whether he wanted to
36:29
Speaker 2: work on Lizzy stuff or solo stuff, or even identify, well,
36:34
Speaker 2: what is a Lizzy track at this point and what
36:36
Speaker 2: is the solo track? So he was frustrated because he
36:39
Speaker 2: didn't know which way to approach the sessions. Phil reacted
36:42
Speaker 2: quite bluntly and asked him, you know what do you prefer?
36:47
Speaker 2: Kit said, well, the solo stuff is more interesting. He said, fine,
36:49
Speaker 2: you're off the album now. At this point Kit had
36:52
Speaker 2: recorded the majority of that Lizzy Renegade Well, Chris tang
36:56
Speaker 2: Gridez was brought in to finish it off. So I
37:00
Speaker 2: think Chris did three of the nine songs, but you'll
37:02
Speaker 2: see the end credit was Chris Angridez, but he then
37:07
Speaker 2: continued to work with them on for what would be
37:09
Speaker 2: the last album. So the will you were asked one
37:11
Speaker 2: led to the end. Commercially, they had run their course.
37:15
Speaker 2: Their last singles weren't successful. I think the last single
37:18
Speaker 2: they put in the top twenty may have been the
37:21
Speaker 2: EP I think the are you Ready?
37:23
Speaker 1: Were they headlining at the time? Were they opening for X?
37:26
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, no they were headlining, but they've been playing
37:29
Speaker 2: the same venues so they were weren't really after getting
37:33
Speaker 2: any bigger. They never toured America after the Chinatown album
37:38
Speaker 2: because there was never you know, Renegade didn't do It
37:42
Speaker 2: didn't do well in England. It certainly it was far
37:45
Speaker 2: less successful and there was no need to go to
37:47
Speaker 2: America to try to promote an album that people didn't
37:51
Speaker 2: appear to have any interesting. The same applied for Thunder
37:54
Speaker 2: and Lunging. The chart placement just didn't justify. If they
37:58
Speaker 2: went out there, they would have been losing money.
38:00
Speaker 1: Let's talk about his work outside of Thin Lizzie. The
38:02
Speaker 1: book really shed light on this aspect of his career,
38:04
Speaker 1: which is often overlooked. What were the projects that he
38:07
Speaker 1: was able to record as a solo artist before his passing.
38:10
Speaker 2: Well, he did the first solo album when Lizzie. That
38:13
Speaker 2: kind of comes into it as well as suppose during
38:16
Speaker 2: Chinatown Chinatown sessions began January nineteen eighty, so they were
38:22
Speaker 2: recording in Chinatown tracks. They stopped doing that and they
38:25
Speaker 2: started prepping Phil's for a solo single during maslanihears, So
38:29
Speaker 2: you've got all this kind of thing going on, which great,
38:32
Speaker 2: I think with some other band members. Lizzie recording time
38:35
Speaker 2: ended up being used for phil solo recording time. So
38:39
Speaker 2: you've got situations. There were members of the band really
38:44
Speaker 2: I suppose should have been paid session fees, but there
38:46
Speaker 2: was you know, he was mixing taking advantage of the situation.
38:50
Speaker 2: I think perhaps so he put. He put out his
38:52
Speaker 2: first solo album nineteen eighty. Another one followed in nineteen
38:55
Speaker 2: eighty two solo and so was nineteen eighty. The Philip
38:58
Speaker 2: Lionet album was nineteen eighty two, and that essentially is
39:02
Speaker 2: the end of albums really from philm outside of the There.
39:08
Speaker 1: Was a photo in the book though of him and
39:09
Speaker 1: Huey Lewis in nineteen eighty five. I think was he
39:12
Speaker 1: working on something at that time and then Huey was
39:14
Speaker 1: going to be part of that album because he has
39:16
Speaker 1: a Hugh he has there's a great story about Huey
39:18
Speaker 1: being on the live album. Yeah, because Hughey was in Clover. Yeah,
39:22
Speaker 1: he's on that album and he's on one of the
39:24
Speaker 1: tracks and Phil introduces him.
39:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bluesy Ueie.
39:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bluesy Huey. But yeah, I'm sorry interrupted there, but yeah,
39:31
Speaker 1: that photo, So what's the story behind that one.
39:33
Speaker 2: That is in the record plant studio? Is it in
39:38
Speaker 2: San Francisco?
39:38
Speaker 1: He was got his little baby girl there on his lap,
39:41
Speaker 1: was just born.
39:43
Speaker 2: It's Hue's daughter. Yeah. The story with that was Phil
39:46
Speaker 2: basically went out still at that point is beyond Grand Slam,
39:50
Speaker 2: So till is the end and you know autumn maybe three,
39:54
Speaker 2: Grand Slam started, Like Grand Slam started recording their songs
39:57
Speaker 2: in December eighty three, and by December eighty four they
40:02
Speaker 2: played their last games. So January eight eighty five, Phil
40:05
Speaker 2: is basically getting a favor from you to go out
40:08
Speaker 2: to do a couple of tracks. Phil at that point
40:10
Speaker 2: is looking a run for his own deal, his own
40:12
Speaker 2: solo deal. He brings the Grand Slam guitar player with
40:16
Speaker 2: Lawrence Archer. But there's problems there because he's he's been
40:22
Speaker 2: you know, he's been arrested for drug possession and stuff,
40:24
Speaker 2: and he's having problems traveling his visas or being canceled,
40:28
Speaker 2: and he's losing his passports frequently, but he manages anyway.
40:32
Speaker 2: Lawrence Archer flew out, so it wasn't any original writing. Essentially,
40:38
Speaker 2: they re recorded a Clover track was still alive, and
40:42
Speaker 2: they also did a Grand Slam track called Can't Get Away.
40:46
Speaker 2: There was meant to be more, but you know, Phil,
40:49
Speaker 2: due to the problem, like Lawrence Archer went out ahead,
40:51
Speaker 2: Phil followed. I think a week or so later at
40:54
Speaker 2: the time, Uey Lewis is recording that We Are the
40:57
Speaker 2: World Charity single, So I think they only have to
40:59
Speaker 2: do what should have been I think about ten days
41:01
Speaker 2: in the serio. I think they only had three or
41:03
Speaker 2: four or something like that, so there wasn't you know,
41:06
Speaker 2: the songs, even though you find them on YouTube. I
41:09
Speaker 2: mean they're nearly finished, they're nearly there, but they sound
41:13
Speaker 2: that they're very much they sound like Ui Lewis sounds.
41:15
Speaker 1: What do you think of the quality of phil solo material?
41:17
Speaker 1: Does it deserve more attention?
41:19
Speaker 2: There's a way to bring more attention to it, and
41:22
Speaker 2: that's too you know, they've they've done the deluxe editions
41:26
Speaker 2: and the box sets for Tin Lizzie, but they've done
41:28
Speaker 2: nothing with the with the solo albums. Even the second
41:32
Speaker 2: solo album has I think it had. There's as many
41:35
Speaker 2: tracks left off it as there on. It are certainly
41:40
Speaker 2: approaching that. There's only one way to try to promote,
41:44
Speaker 2: you know, any material like that, you need to reissue
41:48
Speaker 2: it and perhaps consider including you know, there's a different
41:51
Speaker 2: version of that second solo album because even though it's
41:54
Speaker 2: called the Philip Lionel Album, it was originally called Fatalistic
41:57
Speaker 2: Attitudes after one of the tracks had a different track listening.
42:02
Speaker 2: There's a couple of tracks that he decided not to include,
42:04
Speaker 2: which baffled me. Great tracks, interesting tracks, very uncommercial like
42:09
Speaker 2: Somebody somebody Else's Dream, I think is quite a quite
42:13
Speaker 2: a good track that Geno could be included on any album.
42:17
Speaker 2: You know, it's I just don't get the track, you know,
42:19
Speaker 2: I don't. There's another one, Don't talk about Me Baby.
42:22
Speaker 2: You know the very lazy songs to me, you know,
42:27
Speaker 2: the b sides or outtakes. There's you know, he did
42:31
Speaker 2: a version of Dirty Old Time during those album sessions.
42:34
Speaker 2: He did collaborations with Jerome Brooms and the Gosses at
42:37
Speaker 2: Orans the guitarist with Seal. He did these other tracks,
42:42
Speaker 2: you know, that are far more interesting than some of
42:44
Speaker 2: the things he chose to include.
42:46
Speaker 1: How much well Lawrence Archer had a comment, I'm wondering
42:49
Speaker 1: how much of you think of what he said was true.
42:52
Speaker 1: He said that Phil was too much of a risk
42:54
Speaker 1: because of his reputation with the drugs and the alcohols,
42:57
Speaker 1: or record companies felt maybe he was too much of
42:59
Speaker 1: a risk to bring in. How much did that affect
43:02
Speaker 1: his solo career?
43:03
Speaker 2: Do you think you could look at that a couple
43:05
Speaker 2: of different ways, you know, I've no doubt he became very,
43:08
Speaker 2: very difficult to manage his own manager. I suppose, you know,
43:12
Speaker 2: he was co managed by Chris O. Donald and Chris Morrison.
43:16
Speaker 2: Chris o'dnald I think left around the time of the
43:19
Speaker 2: Renegade album or thereabouts. I would think Phil essentially tried
43:24
Speaker 2: to manage the band himself with that wasn't ever going
43:28
Speaker 2: to be the right way to go. You could also say,
43:31
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of his behavior his reputation, was
43:36
Speaker 2: he reliable some band members? Would you know that kind
43:40
Speaker 2: of talk gets around in the inner What is you know,
43:42
Speaker 2: essentially a small industry. You know, if you're meant to
43:45
Speaker 2: be turning up a tune the afternoon, you're getting there
43:47
Speaker 2: at twelve at night, and you know, that type of
43:50
Speaker 2: that type of thing gets out, you know, depending on
43:52
Speaker 2: how he was being what if he was writing quality
43:55
Speaker 2: songs like you know the Boys back in Town Emerald
43:58
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four Baby Boy, would labels have cared?
44:03
Speaker 2: I almost kind of think, you know, is it the
44:05
Speaker 2: material or is it him? The combination of the material
44:08
Speaker 2: on them. Maybe if the strongs were strong enough or
44:12
Speaker 2: stronger than what they were, they wouldn't have given it down,
44:16
Speaker 2: you know, taken them on. But you know grand slam
44:19
Speaker 2: songs are you know, they're not fully developed. They're very
44:23
Speaker 2: good demos. I'm not I kind of mentioned that in
44:25
Speaker 2: the book. I'm not really sure nineteen was later chosen
44:30
Speaker 2: as a single. I don't particularly like the song that
44:34
Speaker 2: the same guy wrote the lyrics to The Wiser Back
44:36
Speaker 2: in Town and also wrote the lyrics in nineteen is
44:40
Speaker 2: you know that's a big that's a big drop off.
44:42
Speaker 2: But then you know, Freddie Mercury wrote Bueing Me in Rhapsody,
44:46
Speaker 2: but he also wrote a song called Stop All the
44:48
Speaker 2: Fighting And if you've heard that.
44:50
Speaker 1: The album is that off of Stop All.
44:52
Speaker 2: The Fighting was a b side too well of Freddie
44:57
Speaker 2: solo songs.
44:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard it.
44:59
Speaker 2: I think it might have been the B side to
45:00
Speaker 2: a reissue of the Great Pretender single. It's essentially it's
45:04
Speaker 2: an outtake from his solo album from nineteen eighty five.
45:07
Speaker 2: All jokes aside, you know there, I mean, they can't
45:09
Speaker 2: all be classics, but that's a big drop off. You know.
45:14
Speaker 2: There's a couple of interesting grand slam songs. I always
45:17
Speaker 2: got quite light well, quite a lot of them, but
45:21
Speaker 2: i'd struggled to say that's a singular. That's a singular.
45:24
Speaker 2: But they weren't together long though.
45:27
Speaker 1: Book on rock podcast, We'll be back after this.
45:30
Speaker 2: I'd remember my Brad that not just the will affect
45:35
Speaker 2: you in the future.
45:38
Speaker 1: He was just thirty six when he died January fourth,
45:40
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. He had overdosed a few days before Christmas.
45:45
Speaker 1: He did survive, but the damage was immense. The self
45:49
Speaker 1: abuse inflicted over the past ten years was now falling
45:52
Speaker 1: due What do you think Philip Linet would have done
45:55
Speaker 1: if you were able to beat those demons with his music,
45:57
Speaker 1: his poetry and beyond, what do you think he would
46:00
Speaker 1: have accomplished.
46:01
Speaker 2: He was after signing a record deal, so he was
46:04
Speaker 2: edging towards having enough material to do a third solo album,
46:09
Speaker 2: but that was with Polydor. You'd have to say he
46:12
Speaker 2: kept going to the very end, like he doesn't. He
46:14
Speaker 2: made a video out in California for the nineteen song
46:19
Speaker 2: He's out in the Desert Bikers, desert, you know, men
46:22
Speaker 2: and machines. I think it was the video concept. He
46:26
Speaker 2: doesn't look it doesn't look well at all, but he
46:29
Speaker 2: did that in I think they did that video November
46:32
Speaker 2: first and second nineteen eighty five thereabouts.
46:35
Speaker 1: Wow, so that's days weeks before.
46:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean then he got on the promotional threat
46:42
Speaker 2: for you know what they did have They did more
46:44
Speaker 2: filming back in England because there his parents that were
46:47
Speaker 2: not completed on that video shoot, so they did more
46:50
Speaker 2: back in London. I think the video was released. You know,
46:52
Speaker 2: the turnaround time with these things is fairly quick back then,
46:56
Speaker 2: and you know, the single was issued in the middle
46:59
Speaker 2: of November. He went on the promo trail. He was
47:02
Speaker 2: in Europe and England. He did his last TV performance
47:06
Speaker 2: in the middle of December about you know, six days
47:10
Speaker 2: later he was headed to the hospital. So he kept
47:15
Speaker 2: kept on going and going and going, you know, just didn't.
47:18
Speaker 1: Know too bad. Yeah, there's great talent and as the
47:23
Speaker 1: years went by, I think more and more people recognize
47:25
Speaker 1: it and whether there's a statue in his honor in Ireland.
47:31
Speaker 2: Jesus, that's twenty years ago, this kind of summertime, lovely day, huge,
47:37
Speaker 2: huge crowd.
47:38
Speaker 1: It's in Dublin, right, it's in Dublin.
47:40
Speaker 2: There's that famous video that filled it for his song,
47:42
Speaker 2: a solo song, Old Town, and he's walking around various
47:46
Speaker 2: parts of Dublin. It's just there's a sequence in that video.
47:50
Speaker 2: It's Grafton Street. It's a shopping you know, it's a
47:54
Speaker 2: popular shopping area in Dublin. You have essentially a sequence
47:58
Speaker 2: in the video and he's walking down the street and
48:02
Speaker 2: just being acknowledged by dons. I like this. This is
48:05
Speaker 2: filmed in Making Lady two. So it's just off that street.
48:09
Speaker 2: So it's down a little side street, but it's you know,
48:11
Speaker 2: it's and it's outside a pub, kind of a pub
48:15
Speaker 2: actually that would have been popular back in the day.
48:18
Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of it back then, but
48:20
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's a pub that is obviously actively
48:23
Speaker 2: associated with the with the band that since the statue.
48:27
Speaker 1: We didn't mention Phil as a person a whole lot
48:29
Speaker 1: in this episode, but I want to mention something that
48:31
Speaker 1: in the end of the book. There's some great comments
48:34
Speaker 1: in the coda of the book that speak to Phil
48:37
Speaker 1: as as a person. One was his flatmate text Read,
48:41
Speaker 1: who said he had no idea that Phil would call
48:45
Speaker 1: his mother every five or six weeks just to let
48:47
Speaker 1: her know your son's doing okay, Just want to let
48:50
Speaker 1: you know that's cool. He felt. He found that out
48:53
Speaker 1: later after his It is after Phil passed his mother
48:57
Speaker 1: told him that.
48:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, a text going to live with him for what
49:00
Speaker 2: he was a roadie. He was a roadie with Genesis.
49:04
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, but he did.
49:06
Speaker 2: I thought that was absolutely amazing because he again, like
49:09
Speaker 2: I said, but he would have lived on an off
49:10
Speaker 2: a film in the various houses around them. I think
49:13
Speaker 2: he lived in three or four different places around London,
49:15
Speaker 2: but he did. He did say that, And I thought,
49:17
Speaker 2: gesus in a sweet chester if he's some guys bring
49:20
Speaker 2: home a lot and some guys some people bring home
49:23
Speaker 2: every se but just one of those things, you know.
49:27
Speaker 2: And he obviously wasn't that type of guy, but just
49:29
Speaker 2: to you know, be considered, I suppose. So, Yeah, that's
49:35
Speaker 2: a nice, nice kind of story.
49:37
Speaker 1: It seems by all accounts he was. He just was
49:39
Speaker 1: a good dude, nice guy you didn't have, didn't have.
49:42
Speaker 1: I don't think he had. He had a healthy ego.
49:44
Speaker 1: I think, you know, he wanted to he wanted people
49:46
Speaker 1: to recognize him. Yeah, but seemed to treat people well.
49:50
Speaker 2: He did, like you know, he helped out supporting bands
49:52
Speaker 2: quite a lot, right never, you know, it's that type
49:55
Speaker 2: of thing as well, you know, whenever he had a
49:57
Speaker 2: gap in his own schedule. He wasn't and you know,
50:01
Speaker 2: particularly after his he started, you know, his kids came
50:04
Speaker 2: along and he was marrying. There's that element of he
50:07
Speaker 2: was almost filling in time with work. Some people are
50:11
Speaker 2: workaholics like that. You know, maybe it takes time to
50:14
Speaker 2: see the balance that you need just to you know,
50:16
Speaker 2: be good for your own head.
50:17
Speaker 1: Like you said earlier, he started so early in the business,
50:21
Speaker 1: in the music business. I mean, he was just a kid,
50:23
Speaker 1: it's all he knew.
50:24
Speaker 2: So he certainly he was a teenager because a lot
50:28
Speaker 2: of people in Ireland at that time would have left
50:31
Speaker 2: school at fifteen or sixteen and gone straight out working.
50:35
Speaker 2: So you're talking about basically people born in the certainly
50:39
Speaker 2: in the mid forties onwards. It would have been a
50:42
Speaker 2: trend for that. So you had and that's why a
50:44
Speaker 2: lot of them, a lot of people of that era
50:47
Speaker 2: did apprenticeships, and he did. He was one of those.
50:50
Speaker 2: I think he did. He did an apprenticeship course in
50:54
Speaker 2: technical college. But you know he did as a fitter
50:58
Speaker 2: and turner. Would have been the job, you know, plumbing area,
51:05
Speaker 2: but you know he didn't take that. Plus he was
51:08
Speaker 2: earning more money from gigs than he was for the apprenticeship. Notoriously,
51:12
Speaker 2: apprenticeships here were paid quite poorly. But it's very different now.
51:16
Speaker 2: But so but you know, if it makes sense, he's
51:19
Speaker 2: earning more money gigging than he is doing that book.
51:24
Speaker 1: On podcast will be back after this. How many kids
51:32
Speaker 1: did he have?
51:33
Speaker 2: Phil had two daughters.
51:34
Speaker 1: Two daughters. Have they spoken about him over the years?
51:37
Speaker 1: Are they private?
51:38
Speaker 2: I would say that they're more private, but they did.
51:42
Speaker 2: There was a documentary produced. It was called Songs for
51:46
Speaker 2: While on the Way, and that came out. It was
51:48
Speaker 2: directed by Emar Reynolds. They are featured in that, and
51:52
Speaker 2: I think that was the first time I've seen them
51:53
Speaker 2: feature because it's been a few documentaries over the years,
51:56
Speaker 2: but they're featured in that.
51:58
Speaker 1: How much of a relationship did they have with him?
52:00
Speaker 1: How old were they when he died?
52:02
Speaker 2: Very I mean they were seven and five, I think
52:05
Speaker 2: something around that. So I'd imagine, you know, you have
52:09
Speaker 2: flashes glimpses, you know you do. Of course you do
52:12
Speaker 2: have flashes I suppose of being that age. It's been
52:16
Speaker 2: a while. I'm forty eight, so you know, it's certainly
52:20
Speaker 2: what can as a five year old, you know, daughter
52:23
Speaker 2: by the daughter of five. I can't imagine the recollection
52:26
Speaker 2: would be much.
52:27
Speaker 1: Favorite Thin Lizzy album and song? What would it be
52:29
Speaker 1: for you.
52:30
Speaker 2: That constantly changes that, you know, I've you know, I've
52:34
Speaker 2: been listening to a lot of Frank Zappa in the
52:36
Speaker 2: last year year and a half. You wouldn't know who
52:39
Speaker 2: you're going to get, but a zap album, you know,
52:42
Speaker 2: in terms of what have I gone? The guy had
52:45
Speaker 2: in the car? I had one of the BBC sessions.
52:48
Speaker 2: Lizzie did a box set which is all a collection
52:51
Speaker 2: of their BBC recording sessions from mainly the earlier days
52:55
Speaker 2: through to maybe jail Break, but they did other ones
52:58
Speaker 2: as well, a push Oh, Vagabonds.
53:02
Speaker 1: Vagabonds, Vagabonds and a favorite song. If you had to
53:06
Speaker 1: pick one that that's another one. It depends on the day,
53:08
Speaker 1: I suppose.
53:09
Speaker 2: But you know, I love John Talks. The album is
53:12
Speaker 2: all like jail Breaker is obviously I think started obviously
53:15
Speaker 2: their best album in terms of so with Love. I've
53:18
Speaker 2: listened to that quite a bit. From the Black Rose album.
53:21
Speaker 2: That's a that's another mystery actually to me. There's a
53:24
Speaker 2: video for that, but they never released it as a single.
53:26
Speaker 2: They did they made odd choices that would say. They
53:29
Speaker 2: filmed promos for stuff of Johnny the Fox, of the
53:34
Speaker 2: Bad Reputation album, of the Black Rose album. They made
53:38
Speaker 2: these video promos and these very early days. They were
53:42
Speaker 2: stated the art back then, but they probably come off
53:44
Speaker 2: as a cheesy these days. But they made these videos
53:47
Speaker 2: and they never released them.
53:49
Speaker 1: Well, I realized how great they were. One through the
53:51
Speaker 1: best of Route you hear the best of when you
53:55
Speaker 1: pop that. At the time it was the CD. I'm thinking,
53:57
Speaker 1: let's just let's see I know a few other songs. Well,
54:00
Speaker 1: this is some good stuff, you know. I love the
54:02
Speaker 1: cover of Rosalie. Bob seekers Rosalie, great cover.
54:06
Speaker 2: It's uh and so many people think when you can
54:09
Speaker 2: do with that well that people maybe don't recognize that,
54:14
Speaker 2: you know, it's actually somebody else's song. There's a few
54:17
Speaker 2: people like Joe Conquer used to do that. I think
54:19
Speaker 2: Joe Conquer used to saying that he interpreted so many
54:22
Speaker 2: different songs. He to me, you know, you just kind
54:25
Speaker 2: of made them his own.
54:26
Speaker 1: I was I thought Rosalie was thin, Lizzie's I had
54:30
Speaker 1: no clue. And then the Cowboy song, the live version
54:33
Speaker 1: is great. The breakdown, Yeah, that baseline is so many,
54:38
Speaker 1: so many great songs for.
54:40
Speaker 2: You Like when abouts, like, did you once you've become
54:46
Speaker 2: aware of the Tin Lizzie, do you immediately kind of
54:50
Speaker 2: start getting into buying their So.
54:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, early two thousands, just I was I had
54:55
Speaker 1: the advantage of working in radio and now all these
54:57
Speaker 1: CDs available to me, and at the time you can
55:00
Speaker 1: burn them, and I had the best of one. It
55:02
Speaker 1: was a Gray I think it's a double CD maybe
55:05
Speaker 1: great cover Thin Lizzy the best of So that was
55:09
Speaker 1: when I realized how great they were, and that's when
55:12
Speaker 1: I started to become more and more of a fan
55:16
Speaker 1: of Thin Lizzie's body of work. Prior to that, it
55:19
Speaker 1: was just what I heard on the radio. Jail Break
55:22
Speaker 1: Boys are back in town, and that was it. Those
55:24
Speaker 1: are the two. That was it. Here in the US
55:28
Speaker 1: rock stations would play those two and that was it.
55:32
Speaker 2: So, you know, when you think about a two Queen,
55:36
Speaker 2: I think of Queen. I've always been a big fan
55:38
Speaker 2: of Queen, and you know, after essentially about nineteen eighty four,
55:47
Speaker 2: I think they always seemed to relate Queen's kind of
55:51
Speaker 2: fall from Grace in America to the I Want to
55:54
Speaker 2: Break Free video, you know, they're dressed and drank. They
55:57
Speaker 2: kind of attribute that to, you know, contributing to their
56:02
Speaker 2: lack of success or their dwindling success in America. But
56:06
Speaker 2: it's amazing that even for such big bands that dwindling
56:10
Speaker 2: of success does take.
56:11
Speaker 1: Plase bizarre because the same thing with Queen. When Freddy died,
56:16
Speaker 1: I invested in the back material and you're thinking they
56:22
Speaker 1: weren't because I wasn't old enough to really remember whether
56:25
Speaker 1: they were popular or not. A live eight I remembered,
56:27
Speaker 1: of course, but I heard all these songs from mid
56:30
Speaker 1: to late eighties and thinking, man, this is great stuff.
56:33
Speaker 1: But Brian May did say he feels there's a good
56:36
Speaker 1: chance it was because of Freddy's lifestyle being a that
56:40
Speaker 1: that had something to do with it, as well the
56:43
Speaker 1: AIDS epidemic in the mid eighties. But he did get
56:46
Speaker 1: his due fortunately when they had the tribute concert and
56:49
Speaker 1: then it became as right up until today, Queen is huge.
56:53
Speaker 1: Freddy's so respected and I think, you know, I say
56:56
Speaker 1: this so many times. There's another great movie idea Life
57:00
Speaker 1: of Philip Linett. You know what that can do for
57:03
Speaker 1: his his work within Lizzie bring it to a lot
57:07
Speaker 1: of people's attention if it's done right.
57:09
Speaker 2: Certainly for Queen you've got these big hits, as you said,
57:12
Speaker 2: there for hits, maybe five or six years worth of
57:14
Speaker 2: hits or were hits everywhere in the world except in America,
57:17
Speaker 2: which must be mind numbing for the for the people involved,
57:20
Speaker 2: you know. But with the documentary thing or sorry, the film,
57:25
Speaker 2: there's so many things, you know, what I'd rather see
57:27
Speaker 2: it maybe a series, you know, they're try to ram
57:30
Speaker 2: remember the Doors the Augustone thing which if he personally
57:36
Speaker 2: I wasn't a wasn't a big fan of Boamian Rhapsody
57:39
Speaker 2: is a film.
57:40
Speaker 1: They're condensing a lot into an hour and a half.
57:43
Speaker 2: And they're messing so much with facts and fiction that
57:48
Speaker 2: seem as a little they don't need to anyway, like
57:51
Speaker 2: a no, three parts or five part, whatever the case
57:54
Speaker 2: may be, whatever is needed. We're in an age now
57:57
Speaker 2: where that seems to be done. You know, We're in
57:59
Speaker 2: a time you have stories that are being told very
58:02
Speaker 2: different ways that they don't have to go in the
58:04
Speaker 2: traditional root of.
58:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the next step, that's the next logical step.
58:08
Speaker 1: I think if you get the type of producer and
58:10
Speaker 1: director that these films have gotten and then have them
58:12
Speaker 1: expand it so you can really tell the story and
58:15
Speaker 1: do it in like a Netflix series. I'd be all
58:18
Speaker 1: for that as well. And of course people could read
58:20
Speaker 1: your book, Philip Linet Renegade, which is out now in
58:24
Speaker 1: the UK through Sonic Bond Books. You could get it
58:26
Speaker 1: at burningshd dot com. It was just released this week.
58:30
Speaker 1: I think January twenty is the US release datea if
58:33
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. So you could pick it up through
58:36
Speaker 1: Amazon and wherever books are sold. And where could people
58:39
Speaker 1: find you online? Alan if they want to reach out
58:41
Speaker 1: to you.
58:41
Speaker 2: I just literally I'm on Facebook. Other than that, I
58:44
Speaker 2: don't have the Instagram running in that kind of thing.
58:48
Speaker 1: Facebook is enough. I got to look for that page
58:51
Speaker 1: and I'll put the link on the show notes page
58:53
Speaker 1: so people can reach out to you if they'd like.
58:54
Speaker 1: Perfectly appreciate that, Alan Burn, thanks so much and to you.
58:58
Speaker 2: Eric, appreciate it. That's it. It's in the box.