Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 353: How to Make an Indie Film Against All Odds with Tzvi Friedman

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BPS 353: How to Make an Indie Film Against All Odds with Tzvi Friedman · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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Episode number three fifty three. It's not only dialogue, it's also mood,
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situation, the missus scene. It's one of the reasons I can direct
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my material better than anyone else because I have the confidence in my material that
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Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof
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Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how
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to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome,
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Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble
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covered by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Well,
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guys, today on the show, we have a interesting filmmaking story. On
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the show, we have filmmaker Saviv Freeman and say, you've reached out to
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me telling me a story of you know, what he went through to get
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his first feature film made, which is at about ten thousand dollar feature film,
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which I found interesting, and also that he went through a lot of
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uphill battles, just things that most filmmakers don't have to go through, and
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I'll let him kind of tell you about that in the conversation. But he
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also was able to land an amazing legendary producer by the name of Carrie Woods,
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who was also on the show a few episodes ago and how he was
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able to land you know, the producer of Swingers, Scream Godzilla for a
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ten thousand dollars movie was really interesting to me. So this is a pretty
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inspirational story, So get ready to be inspired. So, without any further
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ado, please enjoy my conversation with Zevide Friedman. I like to welcome the
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show, Sevide Friedman. How you doing Sevid? I'm doing good. I'm
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doing good. How are you, Alex? I'm doing good, brother,
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I'm doing good Man. Thank you for coming on the show. Like are
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were talking about earlier before we got on the airs. I get I get
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hit up almost twenty thirty times a day now without question by filmmakers wanting to
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be on the show, and I try to make I try to make as
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much room as I can, but at a certain point, we can't hear
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the same story again and again and again, you know, like you know,
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oh, I've made my movie for five thousand bucks. That's great.
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If it was nineteen ninety one, I'd probably have you on the show much
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faster. But your story actually kind of has a very unique it has a
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few unique elements to it. So we're going to get into that as well.
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But can you tell the audience a little bit, because we were talking
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earlier. You you found me, You've been listening to me for a little
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while. So how did you find me? And how how have I been
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able to even help you on your on your path? Yeah? Sure,
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So basically, you know, when I decided to get into the filmmaking,
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I knew right away I wasn't going to do the college route, the film
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school route for various reasons. So you know, YouTube to me was sort
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of the you know, wealth of information. Everything is on YouTube nowadays,
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and you know, so I listened to various channels and one of them was
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in the film Muscle. I mean, I have a lot of friends who
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listened to you and all your channel it's you know, pretty popular among us
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what we call the underground filmmakers. So yeah, so we just listened to
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it, and I also saw your evolution, which is pretty wild. You
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know, Like I remember you were talking to you know, sort of like
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mid level producers and directors and now you're talking to Oliver Stone, and you
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know, it's pretty pretty crazy. It's pretty and congratulations to that. Thank
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you know. I've been very I've been very humbled and blessed to be speaking
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to the people I've been speaking too lately, and it's been it's it's been
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humbling, to say the least mant and it's I'm glad and a lot of
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my audience have heard just told me that they're like, Man, I've seen
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you when I was there at the beginning, when you were just talking to
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like, you know, you know, just young filmmakers, and now you're
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talking to you know, legends and things, and it's been very Look,
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man, if I can get any information out of those guys and gals and
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bring it to the underground filmmaker, to an independent filmmaker who didn't have the
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opportunity to sit down for an hour to talk to Oliverstone, I would I
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want to. I want to be able to do that. So but thanks
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man, I'm glad. I'm glad. I've been of service to you on
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your journey. And I always find it fascinating how you how people find me
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and like and how it you know, affect because I don't get to talk
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to people often, uh you know, listeners generally, and you see them
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at a film festival every once in a while. So how did you get
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started? In the business man. What made you want to jump into this
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ridiculous business? It was a good question. I don't know if I made
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the right choice not. It wasn't really like that. It wasn't really so
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much of a business. And like most of us, you know, it
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was you know, I was obsessed with movies from a very young age.
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I didn't really know that somebody made movies. You know, you don't realize
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that there's like a somebody's orchestrating the you know, the story. Actually,
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I think I wanted to be an actor to tell the truth of way back
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like that. Like I think that I wanted to be in the movie.
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That's all I wanted from a pretty young age. And then I'm not sure
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exactly when I realized that there was a director. I think it might have
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been a mini doc about the making of Lord of the Rings. And I
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remember seeing Peter Jackson. It was like two in the morning or something.
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It might have been the Hobbit, I'm not sure, anyways, and he's
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driving to like pick up the DP or something, and just like the whole
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vibe and the whole you know, they're all joking around. I think that
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might have been, you know, when I started to realize that there was
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this one guy, uh you know, this puppeteer basically, and then I
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just became obsessed with the concept of the director, you know, and uh
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yeah, I think, yeah, I think so. I remember I remember
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in the Lord of the Rings docs. This is when the first Lord of
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the Rings came out, that he released that on insane DVD set that just
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had like seven hours or ten hours of like how they made it on each
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movie. And the one thing I always never forgot is that he had his
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He had his crew carry around a lazy boy and that was his director's chair,
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like a recliner, like a full not like a director's chair. He'd
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like had a full recliner and they would just carry around from set to set
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and he would sit there and he'd do everything and then he get up.
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I was like, why hasn't that become a thing? I have no idea.
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I don't think Jackson though, you know, if you're Pitter Jackson and
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you've already released the first Lord of the Rings, I think you can get
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away with this stuff. By the way, everyone listening, if you're an
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independent filmmaker, do not, I repeat, do not bring a recline around
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set and say it's your director's chair. People will hate you. Yeah,
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yeah, sorry, No, I was just about the director's chair. I
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remember, you know, my first three short films, I never sat down,
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you know, I just the whole time adrenaline rash. I remember seeing
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Roger Corman, you know, very some interview of his not too long ago.
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You must you know, he's I'm pretty sure he's still alive, right,
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yes, he is still alive. And he was saying, how you
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know, asking like director's advice, and you think he's going to talk about
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lenses and whatever or whatever it might be, and he says, just make
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sure to have a chair to sit down. And you know that was his
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Uh, that was his advice. I spoke to a steadicam, I think
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that the inventor of the steady caam. And he goes, what's the best
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piece of advice for anybody who wants to learn the steadic gam And he's like,
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good shoes, Comfortable shoes is the biggest best of advice. Now,
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tell me a little bit about your background before you jumped into filmmaking, because
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from what you told me in your email, uh, you know, filmmaking
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is not really looked nice, very positively by your family. So how did
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what would that because that what are the struggles you had to deal with with
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that? Yeah? So you know, I'll speak vaguely a little bit because
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I don't want to get into much trouble, but sure, well, basically
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I come from a religious community, ultra orthodox community, Jewish community, and
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I think, like a lot of very far right religious community. I say
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far right out, I mean politically far right, I mean religiously very conservative.
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They have a weird relationship with movies in general and with Hollywood, the
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business, just the concept of Hollywood. Hollywood is sort of the boogeyman for
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a lot of people in my community. And yeah, which it's uh,
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I think a lot of it has to do with you know, Hollywood sort
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of was the the front runner of the you know, counter culture revolution,
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and I think a lot of it started there. You know, a lot
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of you know, just the way Hollywood. Uh, you know, the
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sexuality in Hollywood movies, you know, particularly from the sixties and on,
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you know, Rebel without a Cause, all these movies. You know,
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we're seen as a threat. We'll be right back after a word from our
9:58
sponsor, and now back to the show to religious communities and to my community,
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So that's part of it. Part of it is like, so Hollywood
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was this big scary thing and there's a lot of immorality there and things like
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that, and then yeah, I think that's that's really what it is.
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So in my family really was the same thing. You know, modern movies.
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I wasn't able to see Star Wars or prior to the Caribbean stuff that's
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you know, pretty much tailored for kids even that, you know, because
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there's a fear that has traces of you know, either ideologies that disagree with
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the religion, you know, postmodern nights and things like that, or you
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know, explicit scenes and you know stuff like that. So so that's basically
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where I come from. So all right, so then you you see a
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little film called Star Wars. What happens after you see Star Wars? By
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the way, you're not the only one who saw Star Wars, and like
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James Cameron did that too, so you're in good company that Star Wars changed
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your life. Yeah, I hope that was unique, but I guess not
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so much. Yeah. Yeah, no, So so I had a neighbor
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who was you know, also religious, but more modern than me. His
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parents are more chilled, so they let him see a lot of stuff,
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and he would just rant and rape about the Star Wars. And I didn't
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know anything about it, but I just I just knew I had to see
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this thing. He had the toy lightsaber, he had like video games,
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so I just, yes, I just looked it up one day on my
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dad's computer, and I saw a new hope in like parts. I'm pretty
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sure at one time, if not the whole thing or part of it was
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just on YouTube. This is you know, I don't know, fifteen years
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ago, whatever it is. So I saw the first the first Star Wars,
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and and you know, I think I always had My mom would read
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us like science fiction and books. So it's not that I you know,
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I I I knew about these worlds, but only in my head. Sure,
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And then when I saw Star Wars was the first time I actually saw
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it on a screen that in movies people are able to do this, They're
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able to you know, create these crazy fantasies in these worlds. And it
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was as simple as that. It just you know, it was it was
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like the Big Bang for me, you know, it was Yeah, and
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I just became obsessed with Star Wars and playing Star Wars with my brothers and
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having lightsaber fights and stuff and right, so yeah, I think the Star
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Wars obsession really was like the analyst, the bug that bit me, you
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know, yeah, the as I as. I like to call it the
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beautiful disease or the beautiful infection that is filmmaking, because once you get it,
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you can't get rid of it, no matter how hard, no matter
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how hard you try, no matter what obstacles happens to be in your way.
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It's something you just have to just have to do. So, which
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brings me to your first movie. Man, how did you you know,
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living in the in the environment that you were living in, not getting much
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support i'm assuming from your family or community, how did you generate not only
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the energy to make it, but to find the money for it and all
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that whole thing. So how did that whole process come along? I didn't
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though, I didn't maintain the energy as you can. Maybe you look you
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look as you look as old as I am. Uh no joke. Yeah,
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yeah, it's so basically trying to get the timeline right. So basically
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I went to Israel. Actually I went to study in Israel, you know,
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on the hopes of becoming like a big rabbi or whatever. And it
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was a very intense thing. It was a good experience, but it just
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didn't work out for me. A lot of good friends who went there to
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study, but I was a movie addict, a movie junkie. Like that's
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how I got through high school. Like, you know, there was a
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time where I was dorming and in a very serious religious school where you know,
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if they would catch you with watching a movie, you were thrown out,
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and we would just watch movie under our covers. Literally. I remember
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seeing Shimler's List in my dorm room on a tiny phone, you know,
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for the first time. I'm sure Stephen, I'm sure Stephen went exactly how
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he wanted you to watch it. Uh, exactly, so so basically,
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so basically. When I came back, I got a job as an assistant
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teacher in a school, but it was just a soul crushing job. And
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and I just had this you know, like buzz in my ear, like
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this little whisper in my ear. And then eventually and then I had a
14:33
friend who passed away sadly, and uh and right before he passed away,
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I was talking to him about I want to be a director, you know,
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and he came from the similar we grew up together, went to school
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together. But he uh, but at the time he became more open minded
14:48
and everything, and we both we saw a Good Fellas do We saw like
14:52
all the classics together. I saw Good Fellas in his grandmother's basement, you
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know. So you know, he was very positive about it, and he
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said, you know, I think you should do this, and then he
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and then he literally died a week later. Oh wow. So yeah,
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yeah, he was. He was an incredible guy. He would do de
15:07
Niro impressions and all this, so so that really compelled me. I think,
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like I remember being at his funeral and at his burial, and I
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just felt really angry, and I just decided, like I'm just going to
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try to do this, you know. So I basically, you know,
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I had this idea for a short film. Turns out the short film was
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going to cost like one hundred thousand dollars to make. You know, That's
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how it goes. When you first started you write a script. It was
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like a mixture of Blade Runner and all these different things. And and I
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remember, like I went online, I was looking for a producer, and
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I found some girl on up work I don't remember, one of these things,
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one of the you know, the film sites, and she said,
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yeah, well i'll produce it, you know. So I meet with her.
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She said, oh, first we have to make a trailer, you
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know, like a sizzle rail or whatever, to raise money through Indiegogo.
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So basically we ended up getting two thousand dollars from this. Basically I used
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to work with special needs children, so there was a kid I was taking
16:06
care of and his dad was like a big fan of this movie, obsession
16:08
of mine, so he gave me like two thousand dollars cash on the spot
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for the trailer. Amazing. So we made this trailer and it was an
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utter disaster. I mean, it just didn't work out, and we raised
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like one hundred dollars. Was like my older brother who gave the money,
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you know, like on Indiego Go. It was pretty embarrassing. So then
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I you know, it was like back to square one again. I'm like,
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how in the world is this gonna happen? And this is you know,
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the trailer was pretty good, I think, but it just didn't fly.
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It just didn't work out. And then I remember I was watching Vice
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News did a thing on Christopher Nolan's following. They interviewed him about zero budgeting,
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and I was watching his advice and uh, and he basically said,
16:48
just take a camera, you know, the thing that they say. But
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to me, the thing about him, the certain filmmakers you could see,
16:55
like you could tell they sort of come from the underground world. But here's
16:59
the guy who made in Sad and all these things. And then I saw
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a following and it's this real you know, great and yeah, like glue
17:07
together, you know, with popsticle sticks or whatever. It's a brilliant film,
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brilliant, but it's just it's it's unbelievable to see that he went from
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there to there. So I basically he did it a vice. I took
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a camera. I shot a short film. You know. The only money
17:21
was to the camera and stuff and to the makeup artist. And that film
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was okay, you know, like I put it out there, some people
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like it, some people didn't. But but and that's that's basically how it
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starts. Just kept making short films. And then I produced a short film
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for this thing called the Indie Film Collective that was an interesting experience, and
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then we made another short film, and then just over time making all these
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short films, I picked up a very small following on the internet. I
17:45
mean when I say small, i'ming about like maybe ten fifteen people, whatever
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it is. But it was enough that at a certain point I just decided
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it's time to make a feature film. And you know, and I kept
17:56
trying to make feature films. They're like trying to get it off the ground,
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but it just never worked, you know. And my older brother,
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he's a pretty well to do, successful business guy's completely self made, and
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he just said, you have to don't be embarrassed. You just have to
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ask people, you know. And again, you know where I'm from,
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people don't really know what that like. There's no such thing as somebody going
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to make movies. It's it's bizarre, you know. It's oh, I
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know the feeling. I know the feeling. Yeah, it's what the other
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people do, you know, Like, it doesn't it's not a real profession
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that could ever happen. So I think I was at my friend's engagement party,
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all or you know, ultra orthodox engagement party, and I just summed
18:33
up the cards and I just started asking people up front, I said,
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you know, could I have money for my movie? And they're like,
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movie, what you know? And I had to quickly explain while I was
18:42
like trembling, Yeah, I'm making a movie, you know, and Christopher,
18:45
no, I can just try to explain to them, and a lot
18:48
of the guys there, they're just very kind people, very generous. They
18:51
just said, whatever, let the kid go do his high school play or
18:52
whatever whatever they were thinking. You know, yeah, I raised like eight
18:56
hundred two thousand dollars literally that day, just from asking people, you know,
19:00
just basically bullying people into giving me money. And then with that seed
19:03
money, we I joined forces with a friend of mine and we basically started
19:10
raising money online crowdfunding on indiego go, and we raised like eight thousand dollars
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that way, and I put in another one thousand of my own and we
19:17
basically managed to get the budget together. But you know, yeah, but
19:22
there was no it wasn't easy. Let's put so then when you get the
19:26
movie done, then you're now and you basically got it in the can.
19:30
But from what you told me, you basically were kind of kicked out of
19:33
your house and you were like sleeping on the floor on a couch with your
19:37
sister. Uh. You know, we all have struggles as filmmakers. Man,
19:41
Like, there's no questions you you're trying to get your feature made.
19:44
We all got a beg. We get it beg and you know, sometimes
19:47
steal, uh, do whatever you gotta do to get the movie done.
19:49
Yeah, I have a bank. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And uh,
19:53
and that's the insanity of being a filmmaker. We'll be right back after
19:57
a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. But but you
20:07
have the extra stress of also not having a place to live at this point
20:11
and all that stuff. How did you break through that? Man? How
20:15
did you break because I've never experienced that. I was just curious. Yeah.
20:18
Yeah. So so also throughout the shooting, we shot once a week,
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so I was shooting once a week. And when I'm shooting, I
20:25
feel like, you know, you feel you're on top of the world when
20:27
you're yeah, it's it's a drug. It's a drug. Absolutely, it's
20:30
a drug. You're high, you know. And then I would come home
20:33
and you know, my siblings are amazing, you know, my brothers,
20:36
they're very supportive and stuff, you know, But I don't blame nobody,
20:41
you know, like, how are they supposed to know what the hell I'm
20:42
doing? You know, And it's not just it's not just a religious thing.
20:45
A lot of parents aren't, you know, anything in the arts is
20:49
insane. So I would come home, I'd come back here and they'd be
20:53
like, you know, there was you know, you're kind of like a
20:59
rock star when you're directing, and then you come home and it's like,
21:02
you know, it's like coming back to the slums. You know, you're
21:06
you're it's like a descent. So it was really depressing in a way.
21:08
It was like swinging between these different worlds and uh yeah. And then so
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the shooting itself was there was a lot of a lot of stress, and
21:19
not just the production, but just the like this dichotomy or duality that I
21:22
was dealing with, going from basically sinning, you know, doing the grave
21:27
sin of you know, making movies, which is this again like sort of
21:30
like taboo satanic thing, and then and then coming home and you know whatever,
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participating in the Sabbath and all this stuff, and then yeah, then
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we finished rap shooting. It wasn't the most satisfying production. You know,
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again, it's your it's the first feature film for Penny. And then I
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come home and you know, I'm again I don't wanna tell tell you too
21:52
much, but sure, basically it's a combination of you know, I wasn't
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I didn't have a pup income. You know, I didn't really, I
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wasn't making money, didn't have a real you know, my parents were very
22:04
worried about me. You know, I didn't have a career path. Then
22:07
again, it's the movies. It's all these things coupled together. And I
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basically just pissed off enough people and they were like, you know, there
22:15
were sparks flew and I basically was told nicely to leave, and I went
22:19
to my older sister, you know, who was living in Queen's and I
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just I was just sleeping in her husband's study on a mattress on the floor.
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And it wasn't that bad though. They were pretty good to me,
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you know, And but I was really desperate to get a job. You
22:36
know. It was kind of like the wake up calls, like, all
22:37
right, this movie dream probably is not going to work. You know,
22:40
I made this movie wasn't edited at all. We didn't cut it. It
22:42
just a hard drives at this point, it was just hard drives, just
22:45
sitting there. My editor, Christian who works for Complex Media, who I
22:49
met a whole different story, but he edited all my shorts. Basically,
22:53
he put together a trailer for me and a real because you know, I
22:56
called him like frantically saying I'm doomed, and he was. He's always been
23:00
like he's my right hand man, you know, like it's not for him,
23:03
I wouldn't be anywhere. So he was really supportive. He's like,
23:06
i'll make you a real don't worry about it. So he made me real,
23:07
made me a trailer, and I put it into our resume. And
23:10
I just started applying to film jobs because I didn't want to go back to
23:12
being an assistant teacher or whatever it might be. And uh, and I
23:17
went on Mandy. My older brother. I was so broke. I didn't
23:19
have like a dollar, you know, filmmaker. So my older brother he
23:22
paid for my Mandy subscription, you know, for like a month. And
23:26
I'm just applying to like everything in the world, you know, p A
23:29
a D horror move, ultra low budget horror movie, and all this stuff.
23:33
And I applied to maybe thirty forty things or whatever it might have been.
23:37
And then I applied to a director gig, like a horror movie director
23:40
gig, and of course, you know that would be that would have been
23:41
great, you know. And then like a week later, I get a
23:44
call from some guy, the producer of this horror movie, and he's like,
23:48
is this three freedman? I'm like yeah, and he says, uh,
23:52
you know, I saw your resume or whatever. Why didn't you come
23:53
down and h let's let's have a chat, whatever, let's get lunch whatever
23:57
it was. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna get
24:00
the job. You know, I'm so desperate at this time, at this
24:03
point, and I remember it snowing, freezing cold. I go out there
24:07
and like the second I meet the guy, he's like, you know,
24:10
I don't think you're the right fit for the job. And I'm like,
24:11
oh great, another one of these, you know the time. And then
24:17
he says, but I saw the trailer for your feature. I saw some
24:19
of your shorts and I really like it, and I sent your work to
24:22
my friend Carrie Woods. I have no idea what that is. But again,
24:26
this this guy, you know, he thinks, he assumes, I
24:30
know, you know, like he doesn't realize, like, you know where
24:32
I'm coming from. You know that I have no you know, connection with
24:36
the business whatsoever. But he's like he wants to he really wants to meet
24:38
you. So when I leave the meeting, I call up my editor,
24:41
Christian, and I say, oh my god, this guy he said,
24:44
Carrie Woods. This whole thing is. I looked up. I googled Carry
24:45
Woods right after and I saw his credits. He's a legend. Yeah,
24:51
he's a legend. Yeah yeah. And Christian, my editor, again,
24:55
I love him. This is to disparage, and but he just was like,
24:57
ah, come on, man, you know, because you know people's
25:00
he's been in the business much longer than me, and he's in a much
25:03
more professional sphere, and he's had horror stories. So he was like,
25:07
you know, I want to just don't get don't get your home stuffy.
25:11
Right. I would say the exact same thing if you were talking to me.
25:14
Yeah. And like I waited for like a week. I was like,
25:17
should I call back this guy and ask him? And like I was
25:19
waiting with my phone there, like you know, and then I get a
25:22
call from this producer again, and he said, why don't you come over
25:26
Friday evening for dinner with Carrie. He'll be there, you know. So
25:30
I go there, I go. I go to this like penthouse again,
25:33
Like, you know, I didn't grow up poor or anything, but you
25:37
know, this regular middle class religious family, five siblings and you know,
25:41
everybody's lives very simply where I come from. And all of a sudden,
25:45
I'm in this you know, crazy apartment and there's Carrie and he looks like
25:48
right out of his Wikipedia page. You know, it's a little weird.
25:51
I was like, you know, but and uh, you know, like
25:56
we didn't really talk much, you know, I did. I didn't try
26:00
to sell myself or anything, but it was it was weird to be in
26:04
a place where like everybody was filmmakers on a slightly hot you know, slightly
26:08
and a much higher level than me, all in the business and who appreciated
26:12
my work, which was really surreal for me. That's feeling. Yeah,
26:18
it was also like another type of high, you know, like I was
26:19
used to always feeling guilty about my work. And you know, at one
26:25
time I would show it to my my work to my parents, but they
26:26
just didn't understand it. They thought it was bizarre, you know, and
26:30
uh, you know, my dad would watch very My dad has a good
26:33
taste of movies, but it was more very conventional, very formulaic classics.
26:37
And here I'm trying to make like a Bunwell weird experiment, right yeah,
26:42
yeah, and he's like, you know, what's with the hands or whatever?
26:45
You know, so I'm just used to getting that. Or even my
26:48
religious friends who love movies, but like they like they want to watch like
26:51
Michael Mann's Heat or something, they're not you know, sure these a French
26:55
movies. So basically, uh yeah, And that was a really great feeling.
27:00
And then a few days later Carrie texted me. He said, hey,
27:02
let's get Let's get coffee or something. And we got coffee, and
27:06
you know, we just talked movies. And he has all kinds of crazy
27:08
Hollywood stories, you know, Nero Copline, the Thrower at Niros and Robert
27:12
Here's my favorite actor. So we spoke about that, he worked with Warner
27:15
herzog Ju, the Yunky Boy, just endless stories and as it was an
27:21
agent before he was a producer, you know, so there's all kinds of
27:23
stories about that. And then what I don't remember exactly the timeline I don't
27:27
wanna uh distort the facts. But more or less, he basically called me
27:33
up one day and he said, hey, I'll help you. I'm gonna
27:37
try to help you finish your feature film. I'll see if I could get
27:38
some investors and whatever and uh and yeah, like my you know, you
27:44
can imagine. I was like in Seventh Heaven. And then we got investors.
27:48
He got me a lawyer, and then he actually connected me with his
27:52
unbelievable film producer, Jonathan Gray, who's an indie film producer. Also did
27:57
a bunch of pretty big film Flannel Pajamas and Bluecaprice and you name it.
28:03
He did a lot of very critically acclaimed films Dark Knight, not the Dark
28:07
Knight, Dark Knight which went the Sun Dance a couple of years ago.
28:11
And he basically became a producing partner with Carrie on this film, and he
28:14
gave us an office at his studio, Gigantic Studios, which was insane.
28:18
We just were cutting there like three months. We just were squatting there,
28:22
Me and Chris Christian and I am my editor. We just were cunning there.
28:25
And I was able to pay Christian finally, you know, I never
28:26
paid him in my life. I was a few dollars, you know,
28:30
that was nice and yeah, and that that's uh sort of the story in
28:36
a nutshell. I don't know, just wow, man, that's that's that's
28:38
a pretty remarkable story. Yeah, because I was the twist that that also
28:42
added another layer to this onion that is your stories, because like, you
28:47
know, trying to get your movie made, all this kind of stuff,
28:49
but then all of a sudden, getting a major producer like Carrie Woods on
28:53
board, who's a legend. He's an indie film legend. I mean from
28:56
Swingers to Kids and so many other movies he's made over the years, you
29:02
know, to get him on board with essentially a first time filmmaker, I
29:06
was fascinated on, like, how the hell did this happen? I always
29:07
love these little stories of how people connect and how things fall apart fall into
29:14
place, and it's just luck being at the right place, right time.
29:18
Like and I want I don't want people listening to understand this is that there
29:23
is no path that you can copy. You know, I wasted a good
29:29
decade trying to figure out how to copy Kevin Smith's path or Robert Rodriguez's path
29:33
or Ed burns path Like these guys you can't can't copy their path because their
29:37
paths are unique to them for the timeframe. When that happens, so you
29:42
place an ad, go for an interview, they happen to watch your short.
29:48
Hey, I have a friend of mine, Like, there's so many
29:51
things that were magical, insane, it's insane. It's luck. It's luck's
29:56
But if you didn't have all those shorts, we'll be right back after a
30:00
word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. If you didn't
30:08
have a trailer, if you hadn't had a movie ready in the can,
30:14
nobody would have This wouldn't have happened. So it's it is truly when luck
30:18
meets preparation, And that's exactly your story. It's it's pretty it's a pretty
30:22
magical story. So now where are you with the movie. You're still finishing
30:26
it up in posts. Are you getting ready to put it out to the
30:27
festivals? Yeah, yeah, so we yeah, we're we're ready submitted to
30:33
a bunch of festivals. But it's still a quote unquote working progress. We're
30:36
doing the music now, that's where we're at now. So we're picture locked.
30:41
We're doing the music literally like we just started yesterday, and also the
30:45
color which we're basically finished, and yeah, and we're just we're just trying,
30:52
you know. You know, nowadays you have you know, it's not
30:56
like it used to be. Now you have literally tens of thousands films.
31:00
You know, everybody with their one hundred thousand dollars movie. There's just a
31:04
lot of competition. It's very easy to get lost in the pile. And
31:08
yeah, it's really it's sort of playing a lottery, you know, at
31:11
the end of the day. Yeah, it's pretty you know, if you've
31:15
listened to the show and you've seen the show, you know, I've talked
31:18
about distribution and how to get your movie out there and stuff. It is
31:22
very difficult to get an independent film with no you have no stars. If
31:25
I'm a mistake, you have no faces or stars in the movie at all.
31:27
We have some future stars that could be nice. We particularly the main
31:34
actor in our movie at one time. He was on the Broadway show Cabaret,
31:40
Sam Mendez is production. But he's a brilliant actor. Brilliant his name's
31:45
John Peterson. Shout out to John. But he he's really remarkable. You
31:51
know, like all these answers that we've been showing the movie to now,
31:53
like we you know, we're showing it to all these guys we've been doing
31:56
forever and they're all like, wow, you know, so the thing is
32:00
yeah, yeah, But as far as distribution is concerned, yeah, you
32:04
know, of course. Yeah. If I walk into a distributors room and
32:07
like, hey, I got a lot of future starts, they're gonna be
32:08
like, get the hell out of here. But no. But you know,
32:13
not lack of talent, but lack of star power meaning recognizable pass right.
32:17
So without that, it is difficult to do it unless you cap any
32:22
kid into a film festival that could be you know, that likes it and
32:25
it gets some awards and then maybe get some attention. But you know,
32:30
just as a non since you haven't asked me for this advice, but this
32:34
is what I would do. I would use Cary Woods's name as much as
32:37
he allows you to use it to open doors for you, because that name
32:40
does carry a lot of weight in the indie film space. And if they're
32:44
like, wait a minute, if carries executive producing this guy's film, I
32:49
should maybe watch it because of his track record, So you've got an ace
32:53
in the hole without question, it's not gonna help you. It might help
32:57
you a little bit in distribution, but it will definitely help in the film
33:00
festival circuit withouts. Don't. Yeah, they're you know, like again like
33:05
I don't know how what I'm allowed to say, but like, don't don't.
33:07
I don't want you to get in trouble. Don't get in trouble.
33:09
Exactly. I don't either want to get in trouble. But no, definitely
33:13
Carrie, but not again, not just Carrie. We have we have a
33:15
lot of the carries sort of built an army around the front, right.
33:19
So it's amazing that he It's amazing that a producer of his magnitude, who's
33:23
done so many films over the years, still is hunting for that you know,
33:29
that diamond in the rough, uh, and just trying to grab something
33:32
and trying to help a filmmaker along. And that's another part of the story
33:37
that I love, is that someone like him is not too high up in
33:42
the mountain where all the gods, the filmmaking gods live like Mountain Olympus,
33:46
you know, where Spielberg and Lucas and all those guys live, that they're
33:52
able that he's still willing to to do because he doesn't have to. I
33:55
mean, he completely doesn't have to do anything, but he wants to because
33:59
he love to process so much and wants to help young voices come out.
34:02
So that's a really that's a really pretty awesome part of the story. So
34:07
I've got to get carried on the show one day. I want to talk
34:09
to Carrie. Uh ll think I think you can do it. Yeah,
34:14
yeah, he's he's just a really I mean, you know, I don't
34:17
know why he decided to do this. You'll have to ask him. You're
34:22
like, man, I don't know why I'm here. I don't know how
34:24
this happened. It's kind of like you know, the movie Being There,
34:29
which is actually one of Carry's favorite movies. Oh yeah, Yeah, he's
34:32
just like he's just like this. You know, I think he's supposed to
34:37
be on the spectrum if I'm not mistaken, and he's just uh, just
34:40
like stumbling into you know power, you know, into powerful people and into
34:45
all these rooms and you're just like, oh what am I doing here?
34:46
And I get that all the time, you know, like I'll be at
34:50
it like again, like once you meet these people, all of a sudden,
34:52
you're at these events and all of a sudden you're meeting these people who
34:54
so many people inspired you to like do this thing, you know, and
34:58
you're just it's it's it's bizarre, and you're not sure and they ask you,
35:01
like who are you and you're like, I'm not sure who I am,
35:04
but you know, security yeah, but but but carry is a really
35:08
righteous guy. I think he's a really he's just a really good person,
35:14
you know, above all else. He's he really he's like a real cinephile.
35:19
He really loves cinema, you know, even though he might have produced
35:22
some really big commercial movies too, but he he just loves cinema and and
35:30
I think he just really wants to try, you know, he sees himself
35:34
sort of. Maybe again I shouldn't, you know, you have to ask
35:37
him. But but my read is that he really feels like a guardian of
35:40
cinema. And uh, yeah, and that's why I got lucky, you
35:45
know, I bumped into him. But you know, but but yeah,
35:49
that's why he Again, he didn't he hasn't just done this for me.
35:52
I'm not the only but pretty much many of the directors he's worked with were
35:55
all first time directors, you know, and Doug Lyman, yeah, Doug
36:00
Lemon with Swingers and John Favor and that whole crew, I mean, helping
36:05
them along. And and the list goes on and on. I mean he's
36:07
helped so many filmmakers, Singled and m Night Shyamalan, a couple of guys,
36:12
get a couple of guys. Second, like legit movie like might did,
36:15
like a low budget indeed that went a bunch of festivals. But his
36:19
uh, his second you know, like more studio film or whatever Carrie made
36:23
that happen. And yeah, the list goes on forever, but you know,
36:28
yeah, so it's really cool. And also another cool thing is that
36:30
Carrie's producing a film called Maggie Moores, which is a John Han movie right
36:35
now, you know, in New Mexico. So it's just funny how we're
36:37
making our little ten thousand dollars movie and stuff and carry sending us notes and
36:42
then he's, you know, busy with these guys. It's it's really weird.
36:45
It's a and and and I just I also I also wanted to have
36:50
you on the show because I want filmmakers out there listening to see that this
36:53
says happened. Still, these kind of little there's a lottery ticket moment,
36:59
there are These are kind of lottery ticket moments. I mean, look,
37:00
look, you're not making the next Marvel movie yet or anything like that,
37:05
but you are definitely on a path that will hopefully build a career for yourself
37:09
and having a champion help you. And we all all everyone needs a champion,
37:15
from Spielberg to you know, every one of the gods, the filmmaking
37:20
guys that we look up to, had a champion. If it wasn't for
37:22
Steven Soderberg, Nolan wouldn't have gotten Insomnia, and without insomnia, he wouldn't
37:29
have gotten Batman and the rest that goes on and on. There's always a
37:34
champion. So I'm just glad that that that we could put this kind of
37:37
story out there for filmmakers to hopefully hold on to. Hcaud. Look,
37:40
there is a hope. You gotta just gotta The thing is that you just
37:45
have to do the work without expectation, because that's exactly what you did.
37:49
You did the you didn't have any expectation of anything happening to you other than
37:52
hopefully this is going to get made, and hopefully I'll be able to do
37:54
another one, let alone teaming up with with Proosional Carres and becoming home.
38:01
Well, let me ask you. I want to ask you, man,
38:05
what is when you were on set? I always like to ask this question
38:08
when you were on set shooting one day a week which is fascinating, which
38:13
is awesome, Yeah, it was awesome. What was the toughest day on
38:17
set? Like that day that you felt everything was going to come crashing down
38:21
around you? And how did you overcome it? That's almost every day,
38:25
but we had many days. I have like we just have crazy, crazy
38:30
stories. I mean again, not not anything new, but but fun.
38:35
You know. So we were operating with like with a tiny crew. First
38:37
of all, like some of our crew pulled out, you know, last
38:40
shocking, last shocking shocking exactly, so we have to do the scramble,
38:45
Facebook, all the all that jazz. You know, we went through makeup
38:47
artists like I don't if you ever sawd Man Bites Man Bites Dog. Of
38:51
course I did. It's amazing, an amazing film. Everybody listening watch Man
38:54
Bites Dog. It's on Criterion killing they keep killing the sound mix s the
39:01
reservoir. So that's basically what it was like we were going through makeup artists
39:06
like a revolving door, you know, because again we didn't really have money.
39:09
So that's how it goes, right, Nobody was worse, you know,
39:12
very people want to again. And it was in the middle of the
39:14
winter. But the second day, the second the second day, which is
39:19
the second week, it was gonna be one of these eighteen hour days and
39:22
we're shooting in multiple occasions and we were at the beach. We just didn't
39:27
make it into the film and none, none of this footage, and all
39:30
of a sudden, again I don't want to I love my crew and everything,
39:32
but somebody said, oh, we don't have we didn't have anything.
39:36
We did we could have dumped the footage, and we didn't have enough memory
39:38
cards. Let's just put it that way. It happens, bro it happens.
39:42
We had like one memory card, you know, and uh so that
39:45
that was like one of the that was you know, I just started.
39:47
I had a full on panic attack and uh whatever. We ended up having
39:52
to drive over and get a laptop and get a memory card. It was
39:55
crazy. I mean, something as simple as that that we didn't prepare for.
39:58
Obviously, it was a little ridicul was we'll be right back after a
40:02
word from our sponsor and now back to the show. But still we had
40:10
like I don't know what it was like a sixty four gig goodbye, you
40:13
know, like whoever was supposed to bring that stuff, they didn't bring that
40:16
stuff. So that was one of them. And then we had another shoot
40:24
well also we were shooting in a lot of places that were given to us
40:27
as a favorite. Weren't paying for it, sure, so one of the
40:30
places we were shooting at, I just remember being terrified of like things breaking,
40:35
you know, and of course we ended up breaking something. And then
40:37
it was the whole thing was like who's going to talk to the owner?
40:39
Who's going to make the call? And we all just were chickens. Was
40:43
just the whole shooting runs was just like fear because like everybody was just like,
40:47
let the kids do their thing, let them play a little bit,
40:50
you know. And then we shot in one place and the owner's girlfriend called
40:57
me up at three in the morning when I came home. I hope they
41:00
don't sue me for saying this. And this was a horrible shoot, mind
41:04
due like horrible, like everything was disappointing in my head. You know,
41:07
it's like, ah, we didn't get the scenes right, we didn't get
41:09
enough coverage. I was like, I was crying inside, and she calls
41:15
me, She's like, where's my weed. I'm like, you know what.
41:19
Basically, it turns out that an entire jar apparently allegedly an entire jar
41:22
of agano of Aregano, got missing, okay, and I basically so I
41:30
didn't know what to do. And I basically ended up having to take out
41:32
money from the film's budget, which literally means that my DP can't have coffee
41:37
tomorrow. That's how small our budget is, you know, to reimburse this
41:40
person for her oregano. So you know, we just had all these like
41:45
really weird, small disastrous things. And then the craziest thing was we were
41:49
doing a reshoot of a scene, a murder scene, and this is like,
41:53
this is after the ten weeks, this is like, this is like
41:57
a few weeks later, it finally managed to get everybody there and we're shooting
42:00
a scene and it turns out we didn't realize but when we shot there a
42:05
few weeks before, this location was we're a homeless man would sleep. It
42:10
was his territory, and he remembered us from the first time, and he
42:15
came. He started like cursing us out, and my line producers Spent is
42:21
from Columbia, so he speaks Spanish, so he understood what the guy was
42:24
saying, but he didn't want to like tell us what the guy was saying
42:27
because he didn't want to scare us and we wanted to get our our Finally
42:30
comeswart to me. He's like, I think the guy might break the camera
42:32
And I said, well what? And I turned around and the guy pulls
42:35
out a knife and he puts it to my AC's neck and he's like basically
42:37
saying, you know, I'm gonna kill you if you don't leave, you
42:40
know. So the first thing I did was grab the camera and run,
42:43
you know, And and the whole croup followed. Afterwards, I was like,
42:46
what happened to the a c What happened to the AC? He was
42:50
fine, but he we you know, we just like walked away slowly,
42:52
like we did, you know, and uh, and the guy just chased
42:55
us out of there. He chased us out of the location. We couldn't
42:58
go back, we couldn't get any more overage. Now was it. That's
43:00
all we had. I'm afraid to go to that train stop now because it's
43:04
it's near a train station. Wow. Man, it's crazy stuff. It
43:09
never ceases to amaze me. The stories you hear about productions, especially indie
43:14
no budget productions. It's there, man, I've been there. I understand
43:19
it. I've been there's too many times today. I haven't had anyone pull
43:22
a knife on us. So that's a new one. I haven't had that,
43:27
But there has been other stories, to say the least. Now,
43:30
I want to ask a few questions. I ask all my guests, Man,
43:34
what do you what advice would you give to that underground filmmaker listening like
43:37
you've been listening to me, uh, And what advice would you give them
43:42
to get there, you know, to get into the business to do what
43:45
they love to do. Yeah, So, like you said, like there
43:47
there's no roadmap. Anybody who tells you there's a roadmap, and the end
43:52
of the day, I think it's bullshit. I remember I got a pa
43:53
gig actually, like on a big set called The Good Fight Cbshow my friends
44:00
Joe who is my line producer on my film, he got me in there
44:02
and I was like I was trying. That was at one point that was
44:07
my thing, Like I just kind of get on a big set and I
44:08
have no idea how right, you don't go on indeed and get on a
44:10
big suit doesn't work that way. So it turned out you just have to
44:14
meet someone who knows someone who could get you networking networking networking, yeah,
44:16
yeah, which to me is kind of that's really frustrating to me about them
44:22
about how the business it's like this very elitist, high barrier entry type thing.
44:25
So I finally get on. I'm a stand in PA. I'm giving
44:28
a radio and stuff, you know, and my job is to stand outside
44:31
a door. I'm like, there's like a thousand pas, and I'm a
44:35
stand outside of the door and just tell people to be quiet. Right,
44:37
My job basically needs to do nothing, but I got paid. It was
44:39
good money, but like I did nothing the whole day, and by by
44:44
by breakfast, I was just trying to talk, you know, network speak
44:47
to people find out like how do you get into this mysterious place? And
44:51
I remember I met the production designer of the show and he was covered in
44:53
paint, like his pants and everything, and I said, like, how
44:58
did you get here? How do you? And he looks with me with
45:00
a big chyle, He's like, you're here. I was like, oh,
45:08
thanks, wow, great advice. But but but the point is that
45:13
that there really isn't And I remember I asked, you know how the actors
45:16
have PA's also, you know, like they treated like royalty. They can't
45:19
touch the ground. So I asked the PA to one of the actresses,
45:22
like you know about the director. I'm like, do you know how she
45:25
got here or whatever? She's like, you just have to do it,
45:28
you know. So the point is that even when you're in the you know,
45:31
the the machine. Yeah, yeah, like nobody really knows. It's
45:36
It's like I remember seeing an interview with David Lynch when he was doing twin
45:40
Peak season three, in like a cafe. Some woman was interviewing him and
45:45
she asked, David Lynch, you know, what do you what's your vice
45:46
to filmmaker you know, has to make a living or whatever, And he's
45:50
like, I don't want to talk to such a filmmaker. You know.
45:53
He was trying to say that if that's your goal, then you know he
45:57
did, you know, because he's a very he's a purist you know,
45:59
he's a an artist. He's a pure artist. Yeah, yeah, he's
46:01
pure artist. But but I think it's true, even if you do want
46:04
to make a living off filmmaking, you know you're gonna be in for a
46:07
lot of heartbreak. Probably Again, I'm I'm in the very beginnings of this.
46:12
I can't really you know, give like real safety advice. But I
46:15
just think from the little that I've uh, the little path that I've traveled,
46:19
is that just make just you know, make films, try to believe
46:25
in yourself. And and but again, like some people want to, I
46:30
again, I don't want to impose my my thing because I had my I
46:35
put it this way. I just did my thing. I wanted to make
46:37
my kind of film. I made the film I wanted to make. So
46:39
I got lucky some people recognized it and they appreciated it, and that was
46:45
that. But but who knows, you know, really Scott has made his
46:50
first his first feature at forty years old. Like and again, he was
46:52
a big commercial director. You could you could point it out. But they're
46:54
plenty. I mean, David Lunch was like thirty three, I think when
46:57
he did a raser Head and so who knows you know, there is no
47:00
there's no path. Ad Yeah, there is no path. It's basically the
47:05
advice that there is no advice. Yeah, it's it is. Yeah.
47:08
I get asked all the time with that is as like, just do what
47:12
you love to do and try it. Just don't don't bet the house on
47:14
it, because this is a very difficult path. There's no question. And
47:20
I've talked to everybody from the biggest guys to to like you know, people
47:23
just starting out like yourself, and it's always about you know, how how
47:28
do I get in and what do I do? I'm like, you just
47:30
got to do it, and yeah, you'll meet someone, You'll connect with
47:35
somebody maybe as someone you met that now in six years, they'll open a
47:39
door for you that you didn't know about. It happens. It's happened to
47:43
me. It happens all the time. It's just that's the thing that's so
47:49
frustrating about being a filmmaker. It's unlike being a doctor or a lawyer they
47:52
have those are direct paths to making a career, you know, an engineer,
47:57
like, these are direct paths filmmaking. It's just like it's like it's
48:01
like a musician or like arts in general, there is no There are some
48:07
paths you could take, but like to be a filmmaker, to be a
48:10
director, to tell stories like that, it's tough, man, it's tough.
48:15
But is it doable. I talk to people every day on the show
48:19
that it worked out. You know. I was able to make a career
48:22
out of it as well, and and still love to do what I love
48:27
to do. It's just about doing it. Man. Now, what is
48:30
the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film business
48:34
or in life. Oh man, there are too many lessons, way too
48:38
many. Ah, I think just as a director when I found again,
48:47
like there's no universal because that's the thing. The arts are so subjective,
48:52
which is why especially diversity of artists and so many different paths in the art
48:57
world. Because it's not a science. It's not a doctor, so you
49:00
know, it's not like like for a surgeon, Yeah, like he'll tell
49:02
you, you know, don't move the knife left because you'll kill the person.
49:07
But but for an artist it's very different. But for me personally,
49:09
what I found is that I used to think I remember I used to be
49:14
a big really scott guy, like I mean, blade Runner. I mean
49:17
Jesus Christ. Yeah, Blade Runner is one of those you know, top
49:22
five, top tend Yeah, no, no, no question question other masterpiece.
49:25
But anyways, I remember him saying, like, you know, how
49:28
he you know, I story about everything, and you know, like really,
49:30
you know, he's a tough guy and so perfectly premeditated, you know.
49:35
And I remember being terrified watching his interviews. He said, you know,
49:37
if you're on a ninny, then this is not for you, like
49:39
all the you know, and and I used to go into doing the short.
49:44
That's what he literally says that I remember seeing him say that. So
49:46
I remember I would storyboard everything and just like try to be like very calculated,
49:52
you know, and and like basically not let my actors breathe and not
49:54
you know, be this tyrant on set. I'm gonna be like Cameron and
49:59
Scotland. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back
50:07
to the show, you know. And and again obviously it works for some
50:13
for for some people, but what I found, at least for the low
50:15
budget world, is that oddly ironically, it helps to sort of like let
50:22
things go. Like for me, that's what I found, Like that was
50:23
the biggest that I learned from this feature. But this feature, I came
50:27
in with all these plans and old boy, they have to throw them away
50:29
pretty quick, you know. So yeah, I found that like the magic
50:34
for me happens when when you know, I'm a void the cliche of collaboration,
50:39
but that's kind of what it is like, you know. I got
50:43
lucky my DP and I we did two short films after the feature. I
50:45
got like a really good relationship with him, and a really good relationship my
50:47
editor and my composer and the main actor in my film. I have a
50:51
very almost like a telepathic connection with him, you know, and we're able
50:54
to sort of vibe off each other. It's kind of like a dance and
50:57
we just you know, you have to leave. I think for me,
51:00
it's leaving room to just allow people to breathe and let's try to the movie
51:06
sort of let it take its own form, let it come alive. It's
51:08
like this organism that you know you only could control to a certain extent,
51:13
and then you just let it live and in fact, it ends up making
51:16
the film better. I think for me, when I allow the chaos,
51:21
let the chaos take over, the chaos is good. It's not bad.
51:23
You know. That's for me probably the biggest creative lesson that I learned,
51:29
you know, fair enough. And three of your favorite films of all time?
51:35
Oh man, the there are none, but I could come up with
51:38
three, like very important films to me. Sure, the four hundred Blows
51:43
that I think would be one of my favorite films of all time friends with
51:46
Truffau, I would say, I would have to say Christopher Nolan's Inception mind
51:57
bloying, mind bloying. Yeah, I have to say that one. And
52:02
I would say Fellini's eight and a half. Again, this is the mood.
52:07
Now you know your top three change, you know, Oh no,
52:12
that's just the three right now. Yeah, like a band plays on by
52:14
Fellini. I've asked me. When I was ten years old, it would
52:16
have been Star Wars, Star Wars and Star Wars, you know, so
52:20
it just changes. But right now, as like a filmmaker, when you're
52:22
studying the craft, those are the films that really to me are like the
52:25
most important films to me an exception to me at least of the modern era
52:30
of movies. That's like to me, like The Citizen King, what I
52:32
considered the citizen Kane for me of modern cinema. Well, my friend,
52:38
I appreciate you coming on and being raw and honest about your story and I
52:43
wish you nothing but the best. I hope man does very well and this
52:47
scene out in the festival circuit, and I hope to have you back when
52:52
you're doing the next big Marvel movie or something. Yeah, it's been pretty
52:59
thanks for having me on the show. And it's I still can't get over
53:00
and I'm talking to it is pretty free on I'm listening to his voice,
53:05
you know, any Bill Muscle Podcas, I'm talking to you. It's just
53:09
it's it's it's cool and it's an honor, but it's also like is this
53:14
real? But okay, I appreciate you brother. Likewise, Yeah, great
53:20
to meet you, Alex. I want to thank Saviv so much for coming
53:23
on the show and sharing his journey with the Drive today. Thank you again
53:28
so much, Zaviv. If you want to get links to anything we spoke
53:30
about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot
53:35
TV Forward Slash three fifty three. Thank you so much for listening to guys.
53:37
As always, keep on writing no matter what I'll talk to you soon.
53:42
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.