Latest / Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories / Band-Aids on Bullet Holes | with Tim Borys | Ship's Log 57

Transcript

Band-Aids on Bullet Holes | with Tim Borys | Ship's Log 57 · Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories

0:00
Tim: Companies are putting band-aids on bullet holes or sucking chest wounds or whatever analogy you want to use.
0:06
Tim: Because they're like, oh, well, your boss is a toxic jerk.
0:10
Tim: Well, here's a resilience seminar for you.
0:13
Tim: We'll teach you more skills to put up with that crap.
0:36
Jeanne: Welcome to Project Candor.
0:38
Jeanne: I'm your host, Jeanne Andersen, Admiral of the Unexpected.
0:41
Jeanne: This is the place where ordinary people share unexpected stories.
0:45
Jeanne: Stories about the moments that changed everything, the detours that turned out to be the destination, and the hard-earned wisdom that only comes from living it.
0:54
Jeanne: Let's get into it.
0:55
Jeanne: My guest today is Tim Boris.
0:58
Jeanne: Tim is an executive performance coach, former CEO, and the author of five books who has spent his career rethinking how humans actually work at their best.
1:07
Jeanne: He's the creator of the Human Operating System Framework and host of the Working Well podcast.
1:13
Jeanne: Hi, Tim.
1:14
Jeanne: Thanks for joining the show.
1:15
Tim: My pleasure to be here.
1:17
Tim: This is fantastic.
1:18
Tim: Looking forward to it.
1:19
Jeanne: Yeah, I'm so excited to be able to get into who you really are.
1:23
Jeanne: So the way it goes on the show is I'm going to ask you some, you know, more in-depth questions about five or six.
1:31
Jeanne: And I want you to feel free to speak on any of these topics and add what you would like as we go along.
1:38
Jeanne: But then I'm going to break at the end and I want to go into our signature game, Two Truths and a Lie.
1:43
Jeanne: And you've got some great headlines.
1:45
Jeanne: So I'm going to stay clear of those headlines when I'm asking questions.
1:49
Jeanne: And also, if you notice why I stay clear of that in your bio.
1:55
Tim: I will uh do what I can to not ruin the surprise.
1:59
Jeanne: Okay, because they're quite good.
2:00
Jeanne: All right.
2:01
Jeanne: I'm going to ask my first question.
2:04
Jeanne: Uh, you were built as a competitor from early on.
2:08
Jeanne: And trust me, we're coming back to that later in the show, just like I said.
2:12
Jeanne: But I want to understand what competition meant to you growing up.
2:16
Jeanne: Was it just sports or did that drive show up everywhere?
2:19
Jeanne: Academics, relationships, everything.
2:22
Jeanne: And what did all of that competing actually make you?
2:27
Tim: Oh, that's a great question.
2:28
Tim: I don't in all the years, I don't know if I've actually ever been asked that specific one.
2:32
Tim: So uh from that perspective.
2:34
Tim: Yeah, it can I would say by nature I'm competitive, uh always yeah, mostly competitive with myself, though I don't really like to lose that much.
2:47
Tim: And uh yeah, I it's been from as long as I can remember, I think the most fun is being in that in competition, whether it's with a friend playing, you know, a game of cards or um a sport or in school.
3:09
Tim: I I think there's there's always been that level of friendly competition.
3:14
Tim: I never really got into the negative competition where it was like had it was a be-all or end all, it had to be everything.
3:22
Tim: So I think managed to escape that.
3:24
Tim: I've seen that in some people and I tended not to like it.
3:27
Tim: So maybe that's why I've shied away from that mindset.
3:31
Jeanne: Oh, okay.
3:32
Jeanne: So you're not the kid that plays checkers and when they're losing throws the board.
3:37
Tim: No, no.
3:38
Tim: I will be frustrated if I lose, but um but yeah, for I can I guess maybe have the lucidity enough to recognize that it's just a game of checkers.
3:50
Jeanne: Exactly.
3:50
Jeanne: I don't know.
3:51
Jeanne: Maybe I think I'm that person.
3:53
Jeanne: I don't know.
3:53
Jeanne: But I I'm not a very competitive person um from the standpoint of sports or uh academics or even relationships.
4:03
Jeanne: I I guess I'm just a laid back kind of person.
4:06
Jeanne: So did it show up in academics and your relationships with people, um, not just sports?
4:13
Tim: Yeah, it's interesting you talk about the laid back because I'm definitely a type B person.
4:18
Tim: I would not say I'm super A-type.
4:21
Tim: It's almost like I pick and choose when I'm competitive.
4:25
Tim: There'll be lots of times when I I'll participate in something and have no um pressure to perform or don't really care about winning in that moment.
4:37
Tim: But when I do, that's when the mindset shifts and it's like, all right, game on, let's go.
4:43
Tim: And uh I think it uh yeah, I I pick and choose in those moments.
4:48
Tim: And uh yeah, it's it's almost like a switch.
4:52
Tim: I I can turn off, turn on or turn off what I want.
4:56
Jeanne: Okay.
4:56
Jeanne: Well, we we'll probably we're going into you what you've uh put up as your framework in a few minutes, but it reminds me of Myers Briggs.
5:04
Jeanne: I know you've probably taken that test.
5:06
Tim: I have a long time ago.
5:07
Jeanne: Yeah, me too.
5:08
Jeanne: And what they told me was I was an ENFP.
5:12
Jeanne: But there was another part of that test that showed you where you perform.
5:18
Jeanne: So I went from being like more artistic and visionary, but I performed in the judgment quadrant or the execution quadrant.
5:28
Jeanne: So that sounds like what you are.
5:30
Jeanne: Yeah, it's when it's game on, it's game on.
5:34
Tim: Yeah, exactly.
5:35
Tim: Yeah.
5:36
Jeanne: Yeah, so that's fun.
5:38
Jeanne: Um at some point you went from competing to coaching others on how to perform, and I'm still not giving anything away, but was that a natural transition or did it feel like a step down?
5:49
Jeanne: And did you lose something when you made that shift, or were you just generally excited to pour into other people's journeys?
5:57
Tim: Yeah, I wouldn't I would say that probably that came very early.
6:02
Tim: I've as long as I can remember from my early to mid-teens, I was coaching others.
6:10
Tim: I was um instructor at summer camps for kids for for different sports.
6:16
Tim: And um, I just really loved working with others and seeing that light bulb go off for them and having them learn new skills and new capabilities.
6:25
Tim: For me, that just is one of the things that drives me.
6:28
Tim: And uh so yeah, I've done that my entire life in almost every form from again, sports summer camps to uh personal training and coaching, executive coaching and leadership programs and so many things like that.
6:44
Tim: That for me it's about collaborating with others to help them learn and grow.
6:51
Jeanne: Nice.
6:51
Jeanne: So it was a natural transition then because not even a transition because you were already doing that.
6:56
Jeanne: You're showing up as a coach almost all your life then.
7:00
Tim: Yeah, exactly.
7:01
Tim: And as for competition, when I want to flick that switch, I can.
7:04
Tim: Most of the time these days it stays pretty turned off.
7:09
Jeanne: Oh, okay.
7:10
Jeanne: Okay.
7:11
Jeanne: Well, that's wonderful.
7:12
Jeanne: So summer camps, what summer camps did you guys say?
7:15
Jeanne: Uh, this isn't that a question that I was intending, but let's go with it.
7:19
Tim: Yeah.
7:20
Tim: Um, without giving away too many things, it uh yeah, I a couple different sports that I played.
7:27
Tim: I went and worked with kids, and I was, as they say, uh I forget how they called it at the time, like an instructor versus uh like the camp counselor.
7:42
Tim: I didn't like have the groups of the kids, uh, but I was the call it skilled help that came out and was more the coach or the instructor for um specific sports skills.
7:55
Jeanne: Okay.
7:55
Jeanne: Was it mostly guy camps or a mix of uh women, men uh camped?
8:01
Tim: Um at that age group, it's a it's a pretty good mix.
8:03
Tim: I would say um the sports that I played were mostly mostly guys, but uh there were quite a few girls, even at that age back in the dark ages of the 80s, I think it was.
8:17
Jeanne: Okay.
8:18
Jeanne: Uh you made me think um, you know, I'm not still not gonna give it away, but I I met a guy because I like to do I'm a music fanatic, so I like to go crazy places.
8:28
Jeanne: And one of the places I have been um multiple times is rockcamp.com.
8:34
Jeanne: And it's where you can go and play your instrument or sing with rock stars from the past or current ones.
8:44
Jeanne: And it's quite fun.
8:46
Jeanne: So I met a man at one of my camps who has been to so many fantasy camps for hockey, for baseball, for basketball.
8:58
Jeanne: I mean, he's done them all.
9:00
Tim: Okay.
9:01
Jeanne: So, you know, it just reminded me of that when you're saying you're a coach at a camp.
9:06
Jeanne: Uh maybe that's something fun for you to do.
9:10
Tim: Well, the the rock camp sounds interesting.
9:11
Tim: I uh have three guitars sitting here in my office that uh I don't play near enough.
9:16
Tim: And so maybe that'll be the catalyst for me uh taking that part of my uh my music, not career, but music uh hobby to the next level.
9:28
Jeanne: Oh, you should do it.
9:29
Jeanne: I I tell you, you know, I challenge you, go do it because it's uh David Fischoff is the man who created it, and he's wonderful, but also you can meet so many stars.
9:42
Jeanne: I mean, I found myself sitting beside um just people from you know 70s and 80s that you Cinderella, you know, uh Motley Crue, Uriah Heap, all these people that come in and they help and they coach.
9:57
Jeanne: So you should go do it.
9:59
Jeanne: I've seen people go there with um the guy I'm talking about that went um, he went there with um a tenor ukulele and he was one of the guitarists and he just loved it.
10:12
Tim: Very cool.
10:13
Jeanne: It was fun.
10:14
Jeanne: Um all right, let's get back to you.
10:16
Jeanne: So uh you eventually became a CEO.
10:19
Jeanne: Most people assume that's the arrival point.
10:21
Jeanne: So was there a moment in that role where you realized something fundamental wasn't working either in how you were leading or in how the people around you were operating?
10:31
Tim: I think, well, anytime you take on a new level of leadership or responsibility, there are lessons to be learned.
10:41
Tim: And I am no exception.
10:44
Tim: There were many, many hard lessons and many great lessons I learned throughout that time uh about how to lead people.
10:53
Tim: I had not really been outside of sports, I had not been a leader uh before.
10:59
Tim: And so leading in the business world was very different than leading in in sports.
11:07
Tim: And so for me it was a daily learning experience.
11:12
Tim: Uh I was starting, I started my own company, I had grown it and was hiring people and had you know expanding and growing in different areas.
11:25
Tim: Uh and I for me I was just learning as I went.
11:28
Tim: Uh out of university, I basically started my own company.
11:33
Tim: I hadn't really worked for too many other people before.
11:36
Tim: And and so I didn't know what I didn't know.
11:41
Tim: And some uh looking back, sometimes that's a great thing because you see you don't overthink things, you just go do it.
11:49
Tim: But I also made tons of really silly and costful uh costly mistakes as both a leader and a business owner.
12:01
Jeanne: I think that's human.
12:03
Tim: Absolutely, yeah.
12:05
Tim: And anyone who tells you they have it all figured out is uh either deluded or lying to you.
12:10
Jeanne: Absolutely.
12:11
Jeanne: That's so true.
12:12
Jeanne: And and it's to me, when you talk about it, it's it seemed like a regular extension of what you were already doing, even though you say business is different than sports, you still answer to a coach who's pretty much a boss, you know, be at practice, do this, you know, be here on this time.
12:30
Jeanne: We're going to this away game or whatever that you know you're doing.
12:35
Jeanne: You're getting direction.
12:37
Jeanne: So now you become the leader in still.
12:42
Jeanne: Um does it did that shift a lot for you?
12:45
Tim: Yeah, there's such a crossover between the skills that help you be successful in sport and the ones that help you be successful in business.
12:55
Tim: Um I think a lot of people forget that.
12:59
Tim: There's the resilience and determination and the focus to practice and elevate your craft.
13:07
Tim: There are so many things like that that it's they're just skills for life.
13:12
Tim: And sport is a great way to do that in a I'll call it low stakes environment.
13:19
Tim: Uh you the the daily practice and even the games, even at the highest level, unless you're, you know, at the World Cup in the finals or something like that, there aren't there's there's never lives on the line.
13:36
Tim: And there are rarely billions of dollars on the line.
13:41
Tim: You're out there and you're competing, and if you win, great, what do you learn?
13:45
Tim: If you lose, great, what do you learn?
13:48
Tim: And that's something that I think people in business forget about.
13:52
Tim: They get so caught up in trying to make things perfect and the the results, they forget about the process that delivers those results.
14:05
Jeanne: Absolutely.
14:06
Jeanne: So you you you brought up the World Cup.
14:08
Jeanne: Oh, you're a Canadian.
14:10
Jeanne: What about hockey?
14:11
Jeanne: I saw that in that in in the play.
14:14
Jeanne: You know, my husband's Swedish, born and raised, so he's a hockey fanatic.
14:19
Jeanne: Um, from, you know, I don't know, I guess from genetics, I don't know.
14:24
Jeanne: That's sweet.
14:25
Jeanne: Um, but I saw myself uh watching the game differently this time than I normally do because uh there was text going all over the place going, why are they getting so many penalties?
14:38
Jeanne: Why do the Kenes get so many penalties?
14:40
Jeanne: And my husband's over there in my ear going, because they threw the puck over the over the glass.
14:47
Jeanne: I mean, it's an obvious penalty.
14:49
Jeanne: You cannot say they're getting a shafted here.
14:52
Jeanne: So I saw myself calming down a little bit, and I think um I watched them play this time with calmness.
15:03
Jeanne: I mean, it was a fast-paced game and they were evenly matched, but they were playing a little calmer than I had expected, or maybe it was just me.
15:11
Tim: Well, and again, that's one of the things that sport teaches is when things are in the heat of the moment, when the str the stress or the pressure is on, how do you how do you respond?
15:25
Tim: How do you moderate your emotions so you or you're use the your emotions in a way that is productive for you?
15:35
Tim: Um, you know, the everyone's heard the term choke in sports, like and and you know, a golfer that just can't make an easy putt because uh it they would make that putt a thousand times on the practice screen.
15:50
Tim: And when it really counts, they get in their head, and there's the sports psychology of it, and there's so much of that that transfers to everyday life.
16:00
Tim: The the the leader that tightens up and forgets who they are and what they're supposed to say in a meeting and doesn't handle pressure well and barks at someone and becomes a toxic boss because they're not handling the pressure well.
16:20
Tim: And sport teaches you to be resilient on that and build the skills that it takes to elevate your performance.
16:31
Jeanne: Yeah, that's true.
16:32
Jeanne: That's a great way of looking at it.
16:34
Jeanne: Um now we want to get to something that about you that I just find really fascinating and I'd love to learn more.
16:42
Jeanne: So you created this framework called the human operating system.
16:46
Jeanne: So when I heard it first, I immediately think Windows, Linux, software updates.
16:51
Jeanne: Help me understand what that actually means for a person and what happens to that human, just like in computer systems when that system is ignored or misaligned.
17:01
Tim: Yeah, and I call it the human operating system because there are every business has their own operating systems, whether you're calling it the uh the software that the business is running on or the business model that they do in whatever industry they're in.
17:16
Tim: There are certain ways and standards of performing, running the business.
17:21
Tim: What most companies fail to recognize is that humans have their own human operating system that allows them to perform at their best.
17:33
Tim: And from an athlete standpoint, athletes understand how to prepare their mind and their body for high performance.
17:44
Tim: And not just high performance in a moment, but sustainable high performance over time.
17:48
Tim: It if as an athlete, if you get injured in the first couple games of the season, doesn't help for the rest of the season.
17:56
Tim: You know, and yes, injuries happen and things happen, but athletes train their body to be able to perform repeatedly over time at high levels.
18:06
Tim: And we see that more and more now as with the advances in sports science and uh training techniques and recovery and you know, physio and all those things, it allows us to, as humans, generate sustainable high performance.
18:22
Tim: And businesses almost completely forget about that.
18:26
Tim: They run the business for business results, but are considering the impact on the humans that are generating those business results.
18:38
Tim: And so I often talk about three levels of the operating system.
18:43
Tim: There's the individual level, whereas as humans, we are responsible ultimately for how we show up on a given day.
18:51
Tim: And that could be the sleep we get, the nutrition we feed ourselves, the movement we do for our bodies.
19:00
Tim: Uh that is the foundational level.
19:03
Tim: Without that, everything else starts to fall apart.
19:06
Tim: And that's what we're seeing in society today.
19:11
Tim: It's you know, two out of every three people, actually, it's more than that now.
19:15
Tim: Almost 70% of people are either overweight or obese.
19:19
Tim: And the we know that that's not conducive to general performance as a human.
19:27
Tim: And there are so many other things that are going on behind uh as part of society that are contributing to that.
19:33
Tim: But at the most basic level, how do we take responsibility for how we're showing up?
19:39
Tim: The next level is the leadership level of having leaders understand that their job is to generate results for the business and to help their team perform at the best.
19:53
Tim: They're not there to do the work themselves.
19:56
Tim: And yes, there are some managers that are hybrid, uh like the player coaches, we'll call them, where they do have some individual contributor duties, but they also lead people.
20:06
Tim: Being able knowing when to put the leader hat on and the scope and frame of reference that comes with having that hat on versus the IC hat makes a tremendous difference.
20:18
Tim: And I see so many leaders in in the executive coaching that I do that forget about it's not that they don't care for their people, but they're not curating the environment, the culture, the uh energy within their team that is sustainable, that creates sustainable high performance.
20:38
Tim: And so leaders are they're on the front lines of creating this change.
20:43
Tim: The third level is the organizational level.
20:48
Tim: And companies are responsible for creating the culture, the environment that helps their people perform at the best.
20:57
Tim: And that requires putting the systems in place and recognizing, rewarding, and reinforcing the behaviors from leaders that trickle down to their people.
21:07
Tim: What we see is companies have put, I would say they check all the boxes.
21:14
Tim: We've got a great benefits plan.
21:16
Tim: We added extra mental health coverage, we do stress workshops and we do all this check, check, check.
21:22
Tim: We're at we're rated a best place to work, yet people are stressed out, burnt out, uh, disengaged, and work sucks for the majority of people out there.
21:34
Tim: And that those things don't line up.
21:37
Tim: If you're doing all these things and you're not getting high performance results from them, there's a disconnect in the middle.
21:45
Tim: And that's typically the what I call the mindset, the of the and the culture of the organization.
21:52
Tim: That comes from the daily habits of leaders every day.
21:56
Tim: And what we're seeing out there is.
21:59
Tim: Is that leaders are so stressed themselves and they're overloaded with work, they're not able to focus on their teams and to create the capacity, the culture in their org in their team that elevates performance and makes work a place where people want to come and give discretionary effort.
22:19
Tim: And that's something that until companies reframe through that human operating system, what are the things we need to put in place at each of those three levels that allow people to be healthy, happy, engaged, full of energy, and doing their best work?
22:38
Tim: And we we don't see that in in the majority of companies today.
22:43
Tim: And there's pockets within companies for sure.
22:46
Tim: You know, there's always great leaders that overcome the system, we'll call it, to produce excellence.
22:54
Tim: But how do we operationalize that performance and and well-being across the organization?
23:00
Jeanne: Well, I like that you call it human operating system, but I I, you know, like I said, I sometimes I wish I had a reset or a control alt delete that I could start all over.
23:11
Jeanne: But um, when you're talking about the three levels, it sort of reminds me of um, you know, the projects that we have.
23:21
Jeanne: Like when I was in the corporate environment, uh, you'd have the human factor, I said, was always the biggest problem in projects.
23:29
Jeanne: That's because they have their own needs and they do what they need to do.
23:33
Jeanne: And um the they they're dedicated to the project um until something in their human life or something that's in their environment interferes.
23:44
Jeanne: And that could be a million different things like um deaths in the family, um somebody having to go out on maternity leave, uh, somebody getting sick, you know, human factor in there is is pretty much um a determine whether your project's gonna be successful or not.
24:01
Jeanne: But the guidelines are put out by the corporation and everybody has to adhere to those.
24:05
Jeanne: So that's the hardest part, I think.
24:08
Jeanne: The company has their own operating system and how they want to present, just like a human wants to present um within that company structure.
24:17
Jeanne: So how do you mesh those two?
24:19
Jeanne: And I missed the middle one, I think.
24:21
Tim: The the leadership one is the middle.
24:23
Tim: So yeah, you you are exactly right.
24:26
Tim: The company says, hey, we want to create this change.
24:29
Tim: We want a great example these days.
24:32
Tim: We want to implement AI across the organization.
24:35
Tim: We're we're doing all these changes.
24:37
Jeanne: That's where my brain was going to.
24:39
Tim: Yeah, we want to implement AI.
24:40
Tim: Great.
24:41
Tim: We have a business outcome we want to generate.
24:44
Tim: What's missing right now is the ability for companies to say, hey, yes, we want this business outcome and we understand the impact it's going to have on people.
24:56
Tim: And what do we need to help get our people on board so they're performing at their best?
25:02
Tim: When people are existing in a day-to-day basis at work from a position of fear, uncertainty, doubt, they don't perform at their best.
25:13
Tim: And what we're seeing is companies pushing this change through at all costs.
25:19
Tim: We got to do it quickly.
25:20
Tim: We just here it goes.
25:22
Tim: And people are like, what does this mean for my job?
25:25
Tim: Am I, you know, not gonna have a job in the next couple months because we're we're implementing this.
25:31
Tim: So people are pushing back on it.
25:34
Tim: They're not engaging with this change.
25:36
Tim: And as you know from running projects, if people aren't rowing in the same direction, it makes it really challenging.
25:44
Tim: And that's what we're seeing with companies.
25:46
Tim: There's a bunch of studies coming out with of Deloitte and um uh companies that they're uh Gartner that are researching this, and we're a year, 18 months into some of these AI initiatives at companies, and they're not seeing a return because while they've spent all this money, there's friction in the system.
26:10
Tim: They're not helping people feel that they're part of this change.
26:17
Tim: That and I know you can't say, oh, your your job is safe for sure.
26:21
Tim: We don't know what's gonna happen, but there are companies that have done an amazing job at repurposing people into different areas, retraining them and still keeping the jobs.
26:33
Tim: Uh, I think it was IKEA uh was a great one.
26:36
Tim: 8,500 um, they hit they replaced 8,500 people in uh customer service uh with an AI chatbot that was able to do the job that those 8,500 people were doing, but they didn't lay off those people.
26:52
Tim: They repurposed them into a range of different areas, including interior design.
26:59
Tim: Uh so they were doing interior design consultations for people that were buying IKEA furniture, and they added another over a billion dollars in annual revenue to the business just from shifting them into new areas.
27:14
Tim: Yet a lot of companies are just laying people off.
27:19
Jeanne: Yeah, well, I just, you know, I I've been really involved in more AI work recently.
27:25
Jeanne: And I did interview someone um just yesterday, in fact, on this AI.
27:30
Jeanne: And I really see that um the implementation of AI still requires people um and it needs controls in management.
27:41
Jeanne: So, yes, maybe some people will get laid off.
27:43
Jeanne: But think about it.
27:44
Jeanne: If you can amplify is what Ted Yang, and that's his name, um, you can look him up, it says about AI.
27:52
Jeanne: It's you can amplify your skills, you can actually increase your ROI.
27:57
Jeanne: So I don't know if the companies are looking at it wrong, but it sounds like IKEA's got the first case study that or one of the best case studies out there right now for how to repurpose people with in the middle of AI, and you said it improved their bottom line or Yeah.
28:12
Tim: But they added top line revenue of over a billion dollars without adding any more head without any adding any more headcount.
28:20
Jeanne: I need to I need to research that.
28:23
Jeanne: Thank you for telling me about it.
28:24
Jeanne: I want to know.
28:25
Tim: And this isn't new.
28:26
Tim: It was from three years ago when AI when AI first came out.
28:30
Tim: Or not, well, AI has been around for a long time, but AI became really popular a few years ago.
28:35
Tim: And uh yeah, and so this isn't a new case study, but it's be uh coming, it's it got went viral again recently because uh of all the layoffs in tech regarding AI.
28:48
Tim: And I coach uh executive coach a lot of people in tech, and the overwhelming theme I'm hearing from them is they're they are way more productive, three, five, ten times the amount of work they can do because of the AI that they're working with.
29:08
Tim: However, the expectations, the bar keeps raising, and so they're working, yes, they're producing 10 times the amount of work they were, but they're working two or three times longer and they're just stressed, they're burnt out, there's zero life balance.
29:25
Tim: It's not that they're saying, oh, we, you know, working the same or even less hours and producing two or three times the amount, the expectations are like, oh, you need to produce ten times the amount and you need to work longer and you need to do more, and it's not sustainable.
29:42
Tim: Uh, I know people in that industry that have left seven figure a year jobs because they're like, the money's just not worth it anymore.
29:55
Tim: I like my life is a shambles because I'm doing this.
30:00
Tim: And to be able to walk away from that is speaks to how bad it is.
30:08
Jeanne: Oh wow.
30:09
Jeanne: Well, you you can work with leaders and companies.
30:14
Jeanne: Um you don't work so much with uh just workers uh or just or do you?
30:21
Jeanne: I don't know.
30:22
Jeanne: You're just focused on leadership and those skills that need to um help with the operating system.
30:29
Tim: Um I've worked with individual contributors up to C-suite executives.
30:35
Tim: And so it depends on the contract have with the organization and who they're wanting to work with.
30:41
Tim: I'd say most of my coaching, the majority of it, is with um directors, VPs, and above.
30:49
Tim: With that being said, uh I actually enjoy being able to work with managers and individual contributors once in a while, too, because it helps give me a perspective that is different from that the perspective I get when I work with directors, VPs, C level, because everyone has a different view on the business.
31:09
Tim: So being able to coach someone who's at the front lines, you you get very they come with very different problems.
31:18
Tim: Uh, there's a very different mindset at that level of the business than there is someone who's leading the entire organization.
31:25
Tim: And it I find it's fascinating to see the different perspectives and has helped me in both standpoints uh to say to clients, you know, the C-suite executive when they're saying something about a problem they're facing.
31:42
Tim: It's like, well, what have what do you feel your frontline employees are facing in that situation?
31:50
Tim: And it helps step them back, or the frontline leader, well, what do you think the is is the goal of the business in that standpoint?
32:00
Tim: And it just helps people reframe and and shift their perspective to know that there are more than one there's more than one perspective or point of view on a certain problem.
32:11
Jeanne: Yeah, uh you remind me of that cartoon that just will never go out of my brain, I think.
32:16
Jeanne: Uh have you ever seen the one about building the swing?
32:20
Tim: I'm not sure I have.
32:22
Jeanne: Okay.
32:22
Jeanne: Well, uh you can go Google it, I guess, but it starts with like what are the requirements for the swing, and it shows this really nice swing in a tree, you know.
32:32
Jeanne: Uh with a nice wooden seat and ropes going up to a branch.
32:36
Jeanne: And then you turn it over to another group in the company, uh, it starts to look different.
32:41
Jeanne: Then you turn it over to uh the engineers to build it, it starts to look different, then the people to actually sell it, and it looks so different.
32:49
Jeanne: By the time you finish it, you you have like a tree house or something.
32:53
Jeanne: It's not even the same.
32:55
Jeanne: So I think if what I'm hearing you say is that you there is the level of the operating system that people aren't considering, and that the that translation doesn't always go up to the C level, if that's what you were just saying.
33:10
Jeanne: I don't know.
33:11
Tim: Yeah.
33:12
Tim: And I uh now that you say that, I I've seen it, I haven't seen it with the swing.
33:15
Tim: I've seen it with uh different products, I've seen it with a car, I've seen animals.
33:21
Tim: Like if uh describe this animal and you know, one person saying this and another person saying this, and you go from a mouse to an elephant with like seven trunks and twenty four legs.
33:33
Jeanne: And that sounds like the same cartoon kind of, you know, just a different uh subject.
33:39
Tim: Yeah.
33:40
Tim: And yeah, it's it is about perspective, um, but also there's the the business perspective, the the day-to-day operations, the things that just have to happen in any business, the infrastructure.
33:55
Tim: What when I talk about the human operating system is I'm like, how do we overlay what humans need within that existing structure and start to say, okay, what areas of the existing business operating system are counterproductive to the human operating system?
34:14
Tim: Where are the friction points?
34:16
Tim: And how do we start to address those?
34:18
Tim: Because yeah, people need to get paid and you know, uh you need payroll systems, you need uh operations teams to deliver the services.
34:28
Tim: Yes, yes, yes, all that stuff.
34:30
Tim: Where is operations um breaking down people instead of building them up?
34:37
Tim: Uh, what leadership skills are we providing?
34:41
Tim: Yes, there are certain things that there's all kinds of leadership programs out there.
34:45
Tim: Very few of them directly address the human operating system in in a way that is not seen as uh what I call a perk.
34:56
Tim: Oh, we need to have massage in office and we need to do all these perks, which are great.
35:03
Jeanne: I'm not saying Starbucks right around the corner of Yeah.
35:06
Tim: I'm not saying don't have those things, but they're not the important things.
35:11
Tim: They're nice to have.
35:12
Tim: All those check boxes I talked about earlier, the benefits plans and the massage in office and the you know, cocktail Fridays and stuff like that.
35:23
Tim: None of that matters if your boss is an account like it just doesn't.
35:29
Tim: They're band-aids.
35:30
Tim: I I did a presentation the other day where it was like band-aids don't fix bullet holes, to quote Taylor Swift.
35:37
Tim: Um but companies are putting band-aids on bullet holes or sucking chest wounds or whatever analogy you want to use.
35:46
Tim: Because they're like, oh, well, your boss is a toxic jerk.
35:50
Tim: Well, here's a resilient seminar for you.
35:54
Tim: We'll teach you more skills to put up with that crap.
35:57
Jeanne: Yeah, the snake hole salesman.
35:58
Jeanne: Oh, your boss is toxic?
36:00
Jeanne: Oh, here's some spray.
36:02
Tim: Yeah.
36:03
Jeanne: Just keep doing it and spray them every once in a while.
36:06
Tim: Yeah, there's so many things like that.
36:07
Tim: That we when when you look at them from an objective perspective, it's comical what we do.
36:14
Tim: Yet that's just the norm in business.
36:18
Jeanne: Right.
36:19
Tim: People are are working um extra, like, oh, you're you're stressed out because you're overloaded with work.
36:26
Tim: Well, hey, every three months we're gonna give you an extra Friday off.
36:31
Tim: And it's like, well, no, that doesn't help in the in the in term.
36:35
Tim: Or we'll just give you a spot bonus because you work so hard on this project.
36:39
Tim: You worked all weekend and you know, for the last month you've worked 90 hour weeks.
36:45
Tim: Here's a spot bonus.
36:47
Tim: And at some point we know from research that at some point money doesn't matter.
36:54
Tim: Uh it's not making you happier, it's not making you perform better.
36:57
Tim: It's not that people are going to turn it down, but what they really want is balance in their life.
37:04
Tim: There was a recent study out, and uh, I I think it was with five or 10,000 people um across different industries, and they they are said if you could have your ideal work-life balance, uh, how much of a pay cut would you take?
37:22
Tim: And it was about 30% of pay that people would take just to have a better balance.
37:30
Tim: Which was shocking to me.
37:32
Jeanne: That's surprising.
37:33
Jeanne: Yeah, that's surprising.
37:34
Jeanne: I would say none, just you better give me that balance.
37:38
Tim: Well, I ideally, yes.
37:40
Tim: But and and imagine that was with relatively high paid workers.
37:44
Tim: Um, you probably wouldn't find that on the front lines of a minimum wage job or something like that.
37:50
Tim: Right.
37:50
Tim: Absolutely.
37:51
Tim: They they worked it out and it was the average salary that would have been, or salary decrease that would have been was more than the average American mortgage.
38:02
Tim: So people would that that's a significant amount of money they would.
38:07
Jeanne: Yeah, that is definitely.
38:08
Jeanne: Wow.
38:09
Jeanne: Well, when you walk into a room full of leaders with this idea, what's the pushback?
38:14
Jeanne: Because I imagine some of them are just thinking, I don't have time for this.
38:17
Jeanne: Just tell me how to hit my numbers.
38:19
Jeanne: How do you get through someone who doesn't think they have a problem?
38:23
Tim: Yeah, it's the and this is the conflict of the human operating system with the business operating system.
38:30
Tim: The I've very rarely, and I won't say never, because I've met a couple really not nice people, but I have you rarely meet.
38:43
Tim: Really?
38:43
Jeanne: I really I have to say that.
38:45
Jeanne: Really?
38:45
Jeanne: Have you really in business today?
38:47
Jeanne: Well, I'm shocked.
38:50
Tim: When when at the one-on-one level, very few people want to be a bad boss.
38:56
Tim: They they genuinely care about their people, but doing that is almost always in conflict with the existing business operating system.
39:06
Tim: They're rewarded as leaders for getting business results.
39:11
Tim: They're not rewarded for taking the extra time it might need to get their team performing at a high level, which we know from all kinds of research produces greater results long term.
39:25
Tim: But when you're operating on a quarterly results standpoint, there's not have a quarter, a rebuild quarter.
39:34
Tim: It's like sports teams when they they do rebuild years where it's like, hey, we're we know we're not gonna be competitive in this next year or so because we are building our team up from scratch.
39:46
Tim: And we know that a few years down the road, we're gonna win the Stanley Cup or we're gonna win the World Series or the World Cup or whatever sport you're talking about.
39:55
Tim: But in business, there's very rarely the appetite to do that.
40:02
Tim: Even though we've seen time and time again when companies do that, they get better results longer term.
40:09
Tim: They outperform the market, they outperform their peers.
40:13
Jeanne: Yeah.
40:13
Jeanne: That's really interesting to think through.
40:17
Jeanne: And I I think uh if you were putting on your coaching hat, when a leader comes to you ready to throw in the towel, what do you tell them?
40:24
Jeanne: Is there any words of wisdom for them?
40:27
Tim: Uh well, as a coach, it's not my job, I always say it's not my job to tell them what to do.
40:32
Tim: It's my job to help be their thought partner and get them to see different perspectives.
40:38
Tim: So in that situation, and I've dealt with it many times, is helping them see what is the agency they currently have.
40:47
Tim: Um, what control do they have over their situation that they may not be seeing?
40:52
Tim: Uh, what control don't they have?
40:54
Tim: A lot of times people rail and get frustrated by things that they don't have any control over.
41:01
Tim: And I always say ultimately, the only control you have in those situations is to leave.
41:08
Tim: And people are like, well, no, I don't want to leave.
41:10
Tim: I'm like, okay, well, so what what are the other options then?
41:15
Jeanne: Suffer.
41:16
Tim: Yeah, you either suffer or you let it go and focus on other things.
41:21
Tim: And but a lot of times people haven't taken that step back to to think about that.
41:26
Tim: And that's one of the most powerful things about coaching is that the higher up an organization you get, the less people you have to talk to, the less ability you have to really be open, honest, and genuine about your feelings and your thoughts.
41:44
Tim: And you don't have that avenue to express your opinions.
41:48
Tim: You have to be so dialed in and buttoned up and uh political, as people will call it.
41:54
Tim: And so coaching provides that safe space to come in and and really talk about how you you actually feel.
42:02
Tim: And very few people get that.
42:04
Tim: And that's one of the biggest things that feedback that I hear from coaching clients is that I love our sessions for the ability to just leave everything else out there and just come in as me and talk about the the challenges I'm really facing and and and genuinely talk through them.
42:23
Tim: And that's something that uh yeah, it's just not present in for most most people, entrepreneurs, executives.
42:33
Jeanne: Right.
42:34
Jeanne: I guess if they were gonna spend all this on massage and coffee and um all of this cocktail hours and all that stuff, they could it's flip that to do something that you're talking about and getting that coaching in place for people in a um non um judgmental area somehow.
42:54
Jeanne: That would be great.
42:56
Jeanne: Yeah, got your work cut out for you.
43:00
Tim: Coaching is is fantastic, but it's one tool in the toolbox.
43:04
Tim: Um coaching leaders that are operating in a broken system is again still a band-aid until we're working on the until I'm you know, if I'm coaching the C suite or even board members about how to change the organization, that's where impact can start to happen.
43:30
Tim: And that was one of the reasons that got me into executive coaching, was my previous businesses were around health and wellness.
43:40
Tim: And I was working with HR and we were putting programs, we were checking the boxes in companies, and I realized that we weren't having the impact that we could have on the greater organization.
43:51
Tim: And so I started doing some consulting, which helped a bit more, but then I realized that I Still wasn't getting to the C-suite leaders and having the right conversations with them.
44:04
Tim: And that's where the executive coaching came in.
44:08
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44:13
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45:15
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45:17
Jeanne: Well, Tim, it's been so fantastic talking to you about all this stuff and all that you're doing.
45:23
Jeanne: And now's the time.
45:24
Jeanne: We have to transition to Project Candor's signature game, Two Truths and a Lie.
45:30
Jeanne: So you ready to play?
45:31
Jeanne: Yes.
45:32
Jeanne: Great.
45:33
Jeanne: So the way uh the game goes for those of you listening is uh Tim has provided me with um three headlines about himself.
45:43
Jeanne: I'm going to read them off and then um guess which one I think is the lie, and then he's gonna walk us through each of these stories without revealing the lie till the very end.
45:53
Jeanne: Um so since you already heard me say, I was trying to steer away from a bunch of his stories here.
45:59
Jeanne: The very first one starts off with him saying that as a young athlete, Tim was drafted by the New York Yankees, an experience that changed or shaped how he thinks about talent, pressure, identity, and performance.
46:13
Jeanne: It also taught him that potential alone is never enough without the mindset, habits, and support system to sustain it.
46:21
Jeanne: That's a great story.
46:23
Jeanne: Uh let's see, number two, Tim traveled to 50 countries, experiencing different cultures, uh, communities, and ways of seeing the world.
46:33
Jeanne: Those adventures have stretched his perspective and reinforced that curiosity, adaptability, and human connection are some of our greatest leadership skills.
46:41
Jeanne: And the last headline: Tim climbed Mount Everest after years of training and preparation, pushing himself physically and mentally in one of the most unforgiving environments on the planet.
46:52
Jeanne: The experience gave him an entirely new appreciation for resilience, teamwork, calculated risk, and knowing when to keep climbing.
47:00
Jeanne: So if I had to guess, I'm gonna guess number two.
47:04
Jeanne: I don't know.
47:05
Jeanne: You could have done any of these, especially after talking with you.
47:08
Jeanne: Um, but I'm gonna say number two.
47:09
Jeanne: I think you might have twisted it's 50 countries, maybe it's only 40, but that's a lot of countries.
47:14
Jeanne: How many countries are there in the world?
47:16
Jeanne: I should have looked that up.
47:17
Jeanne: I should have asked AI.
47:18
Jeanne: But I'm gonna guess two.
47:20
Jeanne: So, Tim, take us through the stories.
47:22
Jeanne: Number one, tell us about getting drafted by the Yankees.
47:26
Tim: Yeah, it uh was right out of high school, and I was originally gonna I was playing hockey and baseball at the same time.
47:35
Tim: I was gonna go play hockey for junior hockey for the Abbotsford Flyers.
47:40
Tim: And uh and then I got a letter from the Yankees saying you've been drafted.
47:48
Tim: And uh so I was like, well, okay, I guess I'm playing baseball now.
47:52
Tim: And that was my focus.
47:54
Tim: And uh yeah, I sadly never ended up playing for them, had some arm injuries, and after I'm yeah, after my career, but it was I got the chance to travel around North America playing baseball, and it was a fantastic experience.
48:10
Jeanne: Oh, wow.
48:12
Jeanne: Okay, well, what about number two?
48:16
Tim: Uh yeah, so I I have traveled to 50 countries and it there, I think I can't remember how many countries there are in the world, but it's I think it's over 200.
48:25
Tim: So I've I'm not I'm not even a quarter of the way there.
48:28
Tim: So many more many more to go.
48:31
Tim: But my goal is a hundred countries um in my lifetime, and so I'm halfway there, which means I need a lot more traveling to do.
48:41
Jeanne: Well, don't depend on Hallmark movies for countries because they're always making them up so that somebody can marry a new prince.
48:49
Jeanne: So I don't know how many countries there are, but 50 is a lot.
48:55
Jeanne: Tell us about a couple of those countries.
48:58
Tim: Yeah.
48:59
Tim: Um well, I I so I Europe was where I first went.
49:03
Tim: Um and great thing about Europe is you can see a lot of countries in a small space, a short amount of time.
49:10
Tim: Right.
49:10
Tim: So I my first trip I spent four months backpacking across Europe after university and went to all kinds of different countries and had some really cool experiences.
49:21
Tim: And then went to the on another trip, went to the Middle East and uh Israel and Egypt and did some diving in the Red Sea and then uh spent a year in Australia, New Zealand, Fiji on a work visa on another trip.
49:38
Jeanne: You were diving in the Red Sea.
49:40
Tim: Yeah.
49:41
Tim: Yeah, fun diving in Great Barrier Reef and uh in uh the Caribbean and a bunch of other places, yeah.
49:51
Jeanne: Nice.
49:51
Jeanne: That sounds so much like so much fun.
49:54
Jeanne: Except that you have to get a wetsuit and wear tanks and go underwater.
49:59
Jeanne: But it sounds like fun.
50:01
Tim: Well, in the tropics, you don't need a wetsuit.
50:03
Jeanne: Oh, really?
50:04
Jeanne: Okay.
50:05
Tim: It's nice and warm.
50:05
Tim: It's like a bathtub.
50:07
Jeanne: Well, I was snorkeling in Hawaii when I was in the Navy, and I'm telling you, when I saw some of those fish, they reminded me of cartoons, especially this one.
50:15
Jeanne: It looked like it was on a cartoon, the one with the big giant lips and a cigar sticking out.
50:21
Jeanne: And I was like, this is so bizarre.
50:23
Jeanne: I don't know what I would do if I was meeting up with a shark or something.
50:28
Jeanne: Did you ever have any of those scares?
50:32
Tim: Uh not necessarily scares, um, but I've seen lots of sharks.
50:38
Tim: Yeah.
50:39
Jeanne: Oh, okay.
50:40
Tim: White tip and black tip reef sharks, and um, thankfully no great whites or anything like that.
50:45
Tim: But I would love to go to uh I've not been to South Africa and uh or I've been to Morocco, but uh not into the rest of the African continent.
50:54
Tim: But I know in um Cape Town you can do the cage diving with the Great Whites.
51:01
Jeanne: Yeah, I've seen that on TV.
51:03
Tim: Yeah, I think that'd be something cool to do.
51:06
Jeanne: I'm still waiting for Star Trek's holodeck.
51:08
Jeanne: That's about how much I want to go actually do it physically, but yeah.
51:13
Jeanne: Okay.
51:14
Jeanne: So what was your favorite country so far?
51:16
Jeanne: You can't say probably.
51:19
Tim: Uh so many things for different reasons.
51:21
Tim: Um I tend to have I think the some of the coolest experiences have been in countries where they're so different from North America, what we're used to.
51:34
Tim: Um Morocco was one.
51:36
Tim: You know, I did a camel trek in the Sahara Desert.
51:39
Tim: Um took uh I had met a a lawyer from New York there and we traveled around for a bit and um took a cab down to all these remote towns and it was you know literally remote rural Morocco at in the early nineties, I guess it was, or mid-90s.
52:00
Tim: And there were you know, one of the towns we went to had just gotten electricity six months before, and it was generate generator based, and there were people living in mud huts, and I had never experienced that before.
52:12
Tim: It was really cool.
52:15
Jeanne: Wow.
52:15
Jeanne: Sounds like you were on Raiders of the Lost Ark or something.
52:20
Tim: Maybe not quite as adventurous as that, but wow.
52:23
Jeanne: Well, what about number three, Mount Everest?
52:25
Jeanne: Gee Whiz.
52:26
Tim: Yeah, and so I'd known a couple other people that climbed it, and I I actually saw uh uh a presentation from uh they called him the crazy sweet, actually, Joran Kroke.
52:39
Tim: And uh he was the first person to he rode his bike from Sweden on his under his own power with no assistance to Nepal, um, soloed Everest with no oxygen, came down, and then rode his bike back.
53:04
Jeanne: So I can't help but laugh at man, Swedish people are bikers like crazy.
53:09
Jeanne: Yeah, so you're talking actual uh pedal bike.
53:14
Tim: Yes, an actual pedal bike.
53:16
Jeanne: Oh my gosh.
53:16
Jeanne: Yeah, it was uh I mean my niece is a doctor in Sweden and she she gets on her bike to drive to to pedal to her hospital every day, even in the snow.
53:28
Jeanne: It's crazy.
53:29
Jeanne: Yeah, it's crazy cool.
53:31
Tim: It's not crazy, but that that inspired me uh to do the training, and I'd always been, you know, I get an athlete and doing my workouts and training, so I wanted something a different challenge.
53:42
Tim: And so yeah, I uh trained for it and went there and and didn't solo it.
53:48
Tim: I did use oxygen, so I had a shrimp over me and things like that.
53:53
Jeanne: Good for you.
53:54
Jeanne: Well, they're also exciting, these are great stories.
53:58
Jeanne: Uh the Yankees, I didn't pick on that one too much.
54:01
Jeanne: Um, if you uh did you ever get into a major league game?
54:08
Jeanne: You said you didn't really play.
54:09
Jeanne: Oh, okay.
54:10
Jeanne: So you were playing like what do they call that?
54:12
Jeanne: Um pony league, not pony league.
54:17
Tim: For National Baseball Institute in Canada.
54:19
Tim: So I was uh drafted and they had said keep playing with the teams you're playing on.
54:25
Tim: And so I with National Baseball Institute in Canada, I traveled all around North America.
54:31
Tim: We were a tournament team that played all the NCAA Division I schools and toured around, and we were routinely on road trips down in California, and it was it was fantastic.
54:44
Jeanne: Oh, that's fun too.
54:45
Jeanne: I mean, gee.
54:46
Jeanne: Um though um though you you didn't get to go get called up, but that um that still means you were drafted.
54:55
Jeanne: That's pretty cool.
54:55
Jeanne: So which one's the lie?
54:57
Jeanne: I I said two because I think you're Swiss in the country.
54:59
Jeanne: So which one did you lie about?
55:01
Tim: Uh number three.
55:02
Tim: I've not climbed Emrest.
55:04
Tim: No.
55:05
Tim: But the Joran Krupp story is uh true.
55:07
Tim: I did see him speak and when he was in Calgary, and fascinating.
55:11
Tim: He was one of the most entertaining uh speakers I've ever seen, and his stories were just out of this world, amazing.
55:18
Tim: And uh sadly he's no longer with us.
55:21
Tim: He died in a climbing accident.
55:23
Tim: And uh but yeah, look up his story, it's pretty cool.
55:29
Jeanne: I will, and I'll ask my husband who's Swedish, so I'll say, Do you know this guy?
55:33
Jeanne: He probably does.
55:34
Jeanne: There's a lot of Swedes, but not that many.
55:38
Jeanne: So when they're famous, they kind of know each other or know about each other.
55:42
Jeanne: Um Yeah, that's pretty good.
55:44
Jeanne: Well, this was so much fun because uh, you know, just the thought of you um going to all those countries and getting to ride on a camel and dive in the Red Sea.
55:55
Jeanne: Oh man, whoa.
55:56
Jeanne: You've lived a life I won't live, but I I can live it vicariously by listening to your stories.
56:03
Jeanne: I think that's so much fun.
56:04
Jeanne: So those of you who are listening, I know you're probably interested in connecting with Tim after this call because he's such a fascinating person.
56:13
Jeanne: And so I will bring up the next screen.
56:16
Jeanne: And um, there's a quote that you gave me, Tim.
56:19
Jeanne: You want to talk about that?
56:22
Tim: Yeah, it goes back to again the the human operating system.
56:26
Tim: And a lot I've I've had executives say to me when we talk about helping people thrive, is they're like, wow, we just we we have a we're here to get profits for the company, we're not running a country club.
56:41
Tim: And I was like, I'm like, well, very true.
56:45
Tim: And I'm not saying you should run a country club, but when your people are stressed and burnt out and disengaged, you're not generating the best returns you can for your company.
56:55
Tim: So I'm like, as an executive, you have a fiduciary duty to your shareholders to generate the best outcomes.
57:01
Tim: And we know that the best outcomes come from companies that have thriving people, engaged teams, and that makes the business more profitable.
57:11
Tim: So let's put the system in place to do that.
57:14
Jeanne: Yeah, that's that's great.
57:16
Jeanne: I think um they are missing about on that, and and I hope that they'll start listening to you and hiring you to do the work that they need to get done.
57:26
Jeanne: Because when they don't address that, then the next thing you know, they're either trying to sell to somebody who wants to offload the burden, or they're just folding.
57:36
Jeanne: So I think they need to address that piece that you're talking about.
57:39
Jeanne: Um, you also said the people could contact you, and the best way to get you is on your website.
57:44
Jeanne: And that website is pretty robust and um it's a good way to connect.
57:48
Jeanne: I didn't put all your other LinkedIn contacts and stuff because they can get you through there.
57:52
Jeanne: Yeah.
57:53
Jeanne: Um, you also gave a call to action uh to learn more about the human operating system, and you said they could book a strategy call with you.
58:00
Jeanne: Is that correct?
58:02
Tim: Absolutely, yeah.
58:02
Tim: Just go to timborys.com and you can find the link on there to book the strategy call.
58:08
Jeanne: Okay.
58:08
Jeanne: And it's got on that site, it's got links to your podcast itself and um to your books and the you know, it's just it's a very nice site.
58:17
Jeanne: So yep, you guys take a look.
58:19
Jeanne: That's an easy thing.
58:20
Jeanne: Just look up uh Timborys.com and there you go.
58:23
Jeanne: Just remember to put the Y in between the R and the S.
58:29
Tim: For those for those of a certain age, I say it's like Boris Becker, but with a Y.
58:34
Jeanne: Oh, okay.
58:34
Jeanne: Who is Boris Becker?
58:36
Tim: The tennis player, yeah.
58:37
Jeanne: Oh, the tennis player.
58:38
Jeanne: Well, see, then that's something I don't ever watch.
58:40
Jeanne: Okay.
58:40
Jeanne: Golf and tennis.
58:42
Jeanne: It's like, sorry.
58:44
Jeanne: I like the action sports.
58:46
Jeanne: I'll even watch um what's that one?
58:51
Jeanne: The crab people.
58:52
Jeanne: My husband watches it.
58:53
Jeanne: So we're there out there fishing for crab.
58:56
Tim: Oh, yeah, yeah.
58:57
Tim: I know which one you mean.
58:58
Jeanne: Ice fishing.
58:59
Jeanne: No, I don't know what the name of it is, but I'll even like that one.
59:01
Jeanne: You know, there's boats are, but I'm a navy kind of person anyway.
59:05
Jeanne: So anyway, enough about me.
59:07
Jeanne: I really appreciate you coming.
59:08
Jeanne: And for those of you listening, I hope you join us next week for another great guest.
59:12
Jeanne: And Tim, thank you so much for coming.
59:15
Jeanne: I'm Jeanne Andersen Anderson, your Admiral of the Unexpected.
59:18
Jeanne: Until next time, I wish you all smooth sailing.
59:21
Jeanne: Bye, Tim.
59:22
Jeanne: Join us again.
59:24
Tim: Bye.
59:24
Tim: Thank you.
59:27
Jeanne: Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real.
59:34
Jeanne: If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew.
59:39
Jeanne: Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck.
59:43
Jeanne: I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected.
59:47
Jeanne: See you on the next Voyage.