Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Guest: Jane, from Many Sides of Jane

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Guest: Jane, from Many Sides of Jane · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:01
  Hi. We have a very special guest today. We got to talk with Jane Hart from Many Sides of Jane, the show that's on A and E about dissociative identity disorder. Jane Hart is a 28 year old loving mother of two, an author, a public speaker, and a mental health activist. Born and raised in Boise, Idaho, Jane currently resides there with her two beautiful sons.
• 1:28
  Three years ago, Jane was diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder, previously known as multiple personality disorder, which has impacted her life in ways she never could have imagined. One of the exclusive causes of DID is repeated childhood trauma to which Jane has unfortunately endured throughout her life. Dubbing herself a human information sponge, Jane has spent countless hours researching the effects of trauma on the brain, as well as learning as much as she can about DID in the hopes of helping others. Receiving her diagnosis was tough on Jane mentally and physically, but sharing her condition with a close friend was a turning point for her. Despite their close relationship, her friend assumed Jane was dangerous, damaging their friendship and leaving a lasting impact on Jane.
• 2:18
  This pivotal point in her life has inspired Jane to shine a light on the cause to diminish the stigma of mental illness, especially those living with DID. In June 2016, Jane wrote an article sharing her knowledge of DID and her personal struggle, which led to a speaking opportunity on a well known psychology podcast, shrink-wrap radio. The opportunity to chronicle her life living with DID on the new docu series titled Many Sides of Jane airing on A and E. Under the guidance of her therapist, Jane has currently identified over nine distinct identities or parts as Jane refers to them, and she's working to unlock the mystery surrounding her trauma and to find internal harmony between her many sides. Upon agreeing to participate in this rare and raw series, Jane made a promise to herself to be 100% open, real, and honest, letting the world see that those suffering from DID still have the same hopes and dreams as everyone else.
• 3:22
  Jane's goal in opening her life to the cameras is not only to erase the misconceptions about the highly stigmatized disorder, but to also normalize mental illness and to spread truth about the silent epidemic of child abuse and its lasting effects on the human brain. Jane feels there is power in sharing her story, and it is her mission to help others realize mental health is just as important as physical health. Those suffering with DID are special, smart, and unique. They deserve compassion, kindness, and understanding. We are very honored to speak with Jane Hart and had a delightful conversation.
• 4:02
  In speaking with Jane, it was very clear that she was not a victim, but a strong woman with good boundaries, good representation, and that she's done a good job advocating for herself in this not sensationalized production. And they've also taken good care of her before, during, and after the show with good self care, and she'll give you some examples during the interview. And just like on the series, we kept the interview raw and real and left in all the exciting parts, like when my children were running through the house while we were trying to talk. That opened us to a conversation about parenting where we found we had several things in common. It was a really good experience this interview and I so appreciate her sharing with us.
• 4:46
  Here's Jane Hart.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I am Jane Hart. I have dissociative identity disorder and I have right now, I have, like, probably 18 plus parts. But on the show, we only name around nine. But as you know, things evolve.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Right. Well and I know for us on the podcast, like, there are some who are participating, and there are some who have opted out, which is totally fine.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Right. And we try to we try to respect that, but then also there's others who are not in the present time even enough to actually really give consent. You know what
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I mean? So Uh-huh.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: We just don't go there. Like, it's just not we're not here for displaying everything. That's not what it's about.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. I really like that. I really like thinking about it, like, the way that you just described it. That's that's nice to be able to relate to someone else in that aspect.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a big deal, I think. Right? Like, if we're I mean, all of trauma, however people define trauma or whatever trauma might be specifically, it always comes down to a violation in some way. And so it's important that at any level of whatever we're doing, that everyone has a voice and a vote. And if someone doesn't understand the implications of something like, we have a few littles who know that the therapist might listen to the podcast, but that doesn't mean that they understand that other people listen too.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That was that was a really that was a really difficult, and interesting thing to navigate in therapy with my therapist about the documentary and, like, which parts wanted to participate and which parts were, like, absolutely against it, you know, or whatnot. There's just varying, opinions about it inside.
• 6:45
  It's a lot more we're a lot more on the same page now, but still so many different, you know, directions that my parts are going.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Right. Just like with everything else. Yeah?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Tell me first, before we even get into the show, Tell me first, how did you find out about your diagnosis? Is it something you always learned? Someone told you? You figured it out? What happened?
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: I so I was in I started therapy in 2014, and I just started going to, a social worker and a clinical social worker. And we work him and I worked together for almost two years, and he about a year into treatment, we have this conversation and he goes like, he had diagnosed me with PTSD, and then he just said, Jane, you dissociate. And I was like, well, we already knew that. You know, because of the PTSD, I just didn't realize what he was talking about. And then he goes, no.
• 7:42
  Like, you have different parts of yourself that, you know, have come out to me in therapy and stuff like that. I, you know, and then I found out Alexis, my 17 year old part had come out to him to which I had no knowledge. And and so, like, just different things started to happen. Then once once he said that, it was just like, okay. I have to make sure that this is, like, accurate, that this is even, like, happening to me right now.
• 8:08
  You know what I mean? Like, it was such a big giant piece of news for my life. And so I I found doctor Waters, I just he did all the testing, you know, the SCID, DASH d, and, MMPI and a bunch of different tests and, you know, finally told me, yes. You have DID, and and this is how we're gonna treat it, etcetera.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: How did that sink in, like, through the layers of you?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. That was it took it took several months of, like, just swimming in that denial. And it it was painful. Like, in the denial of, like, this can't be real. This can't be happening to me.
• 8:50
  Like, you know, like, and then also the realization that I don't remember all of my childhood and now that's front and center in my brain and I'm thinking what else happened to me? You know, like what else could have happened to me that I don't already know about? And and, you know, which those memory gaps had always been there. I just hadn't I pushed it to the side. You know what I mean?
• 9:12
  Right. But no. It took a long time. It was it was a difficult a difficult process but I I made a denial book and it really helps me out whenever I, have a hard time or whatnot. But it did it took a long time for everybody inside to feel okay and then even for my life to just get back to normal, almost like homeostasis, I've had to find that again.
• 9:39
  Wow.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: What did you say a denial book? Mhmm. What is a denial book?
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So, you know the feeling of denial that that I'm talking about. Right? Right. Are you saying okay. Well, I in the in the first part of this book is just this big, you know, three ring binder.
• 9:58
  And I put my paperwork of my diagnosis and like letters from my doctors and stuff like that that prove, you know, I have DID and then even because in episode six, sorry to jump forward, but in episode six, you know, Harvard and we have a Harvard professor who does an fMRI on my brain at McLean Hospital in Boston and it shows changes between Beth and I, my 10 year old part, and like sparking major research in the field. And so, like, that is something that we're we'll we'll venture into and explore, like, when when it airs on Tuesday. But, I just lost my entire train of thought.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, but denial book. Okay. Sorry. It's fine. It's fine.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: But I so I just made and then I I I just put a bunch of stuff together, like, journal entries from when I was a kid because I saved all my journals since I was, like, six or seven. And I, you know, went through them and I ripped out some pages about the abuse and I put it in there. So anytime I would deny or I would think, are those scripts from my abusers that were just so ingrained in my head, when those would start to take over, like, just consume me, I would open up that denial book and I would be like, no. This is real. This is tangible.
• 11:20
  Like, look at this. You know what I mean?
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, actually.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: It really helps. I have it sitting on my bookshelf, and I look at it frequently and so do other parts.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. I had never even thought about that. That's something, obviously, a lot of people struggle with in therapy and in the process of this. And we had journals from when we were children too, but we don't have them now. But we do have, like, contact with our therapist or different things that document it.
• 11:52
  But that's amazing you compiled it all together in one thing so anyone can look at it when they need to.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like a safety blanket, essentially.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: How did you find your therapist? Therapist?
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I looked on to be completely honest, I went to psychologytoday.com and I looked on there and I just I wanted to find someone with their PhD who could do all the testing and someone who had a background in trauma, in trauma therapy and stuff like that. And I I just it was it was bizarre. When I reached out to him, I sent him an email and I just said, my current therapist thinks I have DID. I really need to get tested. Are you available?
• 12:34
  Is this something that you're interested? Or is this something that you believe in essentially? Because I've been so there are there were so many other, like, psychiatrists and therapists and stuff like that. Just people in the medical community that are just that turn up their noses and they're like, you're lying even though it's right there in the DSM-five.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: You know, and so I just had to make sure that he wasn't one of those and then he wrote me back and he said, oh my god. This is incredible. He said I just met with my aunt this weekend and I asked her how do I find DID clients? How do I find patients that have DID? Because his aunt has been a pioneer in DID treatment in Vancouver, Washington for decades.
• 13:21
  So he grew up around women with DID. She has a whole house up in Vancouver, Washington for it's a respite home for women with DID. They have, like, an entire art room and for, like like, quotes about your littles and, like, it's it's so random. So he he reached out. We finally connected, and then it just worked out.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. I think you hit on something there because it one of the hardest pieces is getting a diagnosis. But the other big piece is finding someone who can help.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, what's difficult and what I think a lot of therapists don't understand is that just because you've never had a DID patient, like it doesn't mean you don't know how to treat it. It's you're treating trauma, and you can research, and there are more things that you can do. And it's better to have a rapport with that client than to pass them off to somebody else.
• 14:20
  Does that make sense?
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well and I would say I would go so far as to say if they think they have not had a DID client, they're probably wrong. Exactly.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's very true.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Especially the more we find out about dissociation and how it works in the brain and how much more common it is than what people realize.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Well, and what's fascinating is that in my apartment building, I live in a really big apartment building and so there's tons of other people that live here. And I have now met because of the show, I have now met five other people that have DID in my building alone. Like, that is crazy. So you know that, like, there are so many others. You know what I mean?
• 15:13
  And there really are.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: It's a powerful thing when you meet someone else with DID. Mhmm. There's something validating about it. You have to be careful about boundaries and making sure, like, safety and maintaining things like that just like in any other relationship, but there's something powerful about connecting with someone who understands what life is like.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Well and it's just it it's been these, you know, and I don't know them very well. The people that are in my building that also have DID, they've just kind of in passing said, thank you. Like, I I have DID as well. And it's just, like, been this powerful moment.
• 15:53
  Like, we may never speak again because it's like, you know, whatever, but still that, you know, that solidarity. Like, I don't know. It's a very powerful thing.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Well, and it has its own coming out process. And for them to be able to say out loud, I have DID, to someone else who is safe and understands that, even if they don't connect with you otherwise, that's a big moment.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely. It's a huge moment for anyone with a trauma history, to be completely honest, you know, to be able to connect with somebody else about the the very things that have defined us in a way. You know?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: There's something about finding our voice again and being able to say things out loud even if that's the only piece we say.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. I agree with that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's jump to the show. How did you how did that even happen? Like, where did how did you get from this to that? What happened?
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's still just sinking in. I don't even know or understand. No. I'm kidding. But no.
• 17:00
  I I I've had a while. So I've had a while for it to sink in but we've been working on it for about two years and the way that they found me, so when I was first diagnosed with PTSD, I wrote an article about PTSD. And then, you know, I realized, you know, a year or two or a year into therapy that I might have DID. And then once I realized I had DID, I began reading everything I could. Everything I could get my hands on, scholarly articles, books.
• 17:31
  I go to the library. I I probably spent way too much money on books.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Right. But
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: yeah. And those are expensive. Those Norton did you see? Like, I mean, those Norton series. Yeah.
• 17:46
  But and I I wrote an article about DID, you know, after realizing that yeah. Just the statistics that, you know, they're in that we people with DID are in the system for five to twelve years before they're properly diagnosed. Wow. Or, you know, that seventy percent of people with DID attempt suicide at some point in their life. That's higher than any other mental health diagnosis out there.
• 18:15
  Yes. And, you know, and it's just like when I realized that I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I just I've always had this passion for helping other people and for using, you know, my talents that the universe gave me, like writing and all that stuff. I wrote an article And because of that article, I was given the opportunity to go on a well known psychology podcast on shrink-wrap radio. And I went on shrink-wrap radio to talk about DID and to educate, you know, his his viewers and stuff like that or his listeners.
• 18:50
  And, and then Renegade eighty three production company, like, two months later, sent me a message on Facebook and found me because of that interview. And ever since then, we've been working together, to make the series. And it was kind of from the beginning, it was just like this what they they kept calling it, it was their passion project is what they'd say. The network and Renegade is what they've always said about many sides of dating. They say this is their passion project and, because they know how important this topic is and they know that people with DID need help and we need that voice, that loud voice.
• 19:36
  And A and E knew they could provide that. And so it's been this process where we have legitimately been in this collaborative and incredible relationship while we're all on the same page and we're all trying to do the disorder justice and to get it right for everybody that struggles with it and to make sure that we say, you know, everybody's system is different. Like, mine is probably it may not match yours, you know? And everybody's looks differently and is different because we are all creative individuals and, you know, have the different brain. And but it's it's something that I feel has just been the universe kinda laid this out for me, and it it just kind of I don't know.
• 20:20
  It took a lot of deliberation to decide to do it. But once I did, I just was, you know, both feet in.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, seriously.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: All the feet in. Yeah. All the feet.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: It's been such an intense experience. I can't imagine.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Do you know the feeling? I'm sure you do, but you know how it is so hard to recharge when you're around people Yes. Like, with DID. Like, it's just almost impossible. And so I struggled.
• 20:50
  I worked it was twelve hour days for eight weeks with, you know, one day off a week, and it was intense. It was it was like intensive therapy, for eight weeks because constantly are being asked, how are you doing? How are you feeling? Who's close to the surface? Like but it's not in a bad way.
• 21:14
  They're not badgering you. They're not being mean. They have all they all made sure that we were taken care of, that we were cared about, that we were, you know, safe and felt loved and appreciated and all of that stuff. They, but it was just, it was it was grueling. It was so grueling.
• 21:35
  And afterwards, because we knew it was gonna be hard, my therapist said, you know, Jane, he said, I'm here for you. And he goes, but this is going this documentary series, he said, this this will bring you you guys to the edge of your psyche. And he goes, I believe you're strong enough. And he said, and you'll be okay, but it's gonna be really hard. And so afterwards, they they sent me to, like, a trauma center and to the Ross Institute, and to kinda recover for a little bit afterwards, and they paid for all of that.
• 22:08
  They've been really careful and cautious throughout this whole time with me.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah. That they they really I think that's reflected in the show. I know the show itself is not the same as what your experience was, but I think it's reflected in the show too how they seem to be aware of that and trying to be cautious with that. So Yeah.
• 22:31
  I think everyone is glad to hear. I think they I think there's two pieces when you have an audience. I experienced this on the podcast just in a tiny scale, so I can't imagine what you're dealing with. But people there's this one layer where people feel very connected to you and another layer where because of that, they feel very protective of you. Yes.
• 22:52
  Absolutely. And so I think people are glad to hear that that was handled so well and that they were so
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: aware. Yeah.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: It shows that, they were trauma informed to begin with to know that there was
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: need to
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: be some self care after.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. And they really, you know, they really took the guidance from doctor Waters, like, and from doctor, Chavez. They really, you know, listened to them about DID and what I needed. And they also listened to me and what my parts and I needed.
• 23:26
  And so it was just it was really incredible, and I couldn't have imagined, going on this endeavor, like, without without, my attorney and how incredibly, careful she was in this the beginning of this whole process. Like, because when they first met me or when they first started talking to me, I needed to make it known that I was not going to be misrepresented. Like, this was not I wasn't going to do this if they were going to sensationalize this disorder because that's the last thing we need as a group of people. And and so I you know, my attorney, like, she's incredible, and I it she just kinda fell into my lap. But she's she knows the business in and out, she advocated for me, and she made sure that the network understood where I was where I was coming from and where I was at, you know, and what I expected from them.
• 24:24
  And they they have been nothing but, incredible to me. So it's been good.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: It's it feels like such a large scale example of practicing good boundaries and good self care, and some of those things we're supposed to be learning how to do internally, and you did it externally. Because that's a lot of people. When you're talking about your therapist and the doctor and the Colin Ross plays and the producers and the show and all that. Like, that's a whole system in itself.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, it brought me a ton a ton of newfound self awareness and, like, newfound compassion for myself even. Because it's almost like, you know, when you're going through, you know, the rigmarole of life and you're, you know, doing you're you're going through the rhythm and you're, you know, like, my life as a single mom is so busy. And I have, you know, I have medical conditions.
• 25:23
  I have, you know, my my kids are both, they both have different needs that are you know, I I'm at the school frequently. And so it's life can get really busy, but when you see it on TV and you like, you see it on screen and you're watching everything put together in my and in my story, it's just the weirdest thing to watch. It's so strange, but it also gives you, like, it gives you just a new outlook on yourself. And I feel like I'm very blessed that I got this opportunity despite, like, no matter how difficult it was. It was it I feel like I've come a long way.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: It was a positive impact, beneficially, even though it was so grueling to do.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's been a positive a positive thing. The messages that I've received since the show has come out have been, you know, overwhelmingly positive and and really just, it's just a bunch of a bunch a bunch of people standing in solidarity with one another about mental illness and childhood trauma and DID. You know, that stuff. It's like everybody that all the people that haven't had a voice, you know, they're messaging me and saying, you know, like, thank you for doing this and, you know, or or I experienced the same thing where they're just making that human connection that it's it's just a cool thing.
• 26:46
  It's very it's very cool, but it also adds its own unique set of stresses to my life. But I'm I'm managing very well, I think.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: It changes things. I know when we started the podcast, it was for similar reasons what you shared of just wanting to educate, trying to be vulnerable because it's so real and people think it's not real or there's all the stigma. And so trying to include those layers, but the more that comes out, then there's the more that's exposed. And then it just went viral. Like, it went crazy.
• 27:20
  And so then everybody was listening to it and talking about it. It's like, wait. What happened? Yeah. And, you know, when you start getting those emails of, like, I don't know who you are or what happened?
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But then when
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you hear people's stories or start connecting with people and seeing how uniting together internally or externally in different ways, not just gets you on the same page or helps you get help, but there's such an empowering thing that we can do for ourselves and for each other as a community.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I a % agree with that. That was so eloquently stated.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Yeah. What what surprised you most about the show? Either doing it during those brewing weeks or watching it back later.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: What surprised me most? Is that what you asked? I'm sorry. Yes. Okay.
• 28:19
  Oh, I would say watching it later because so throughout filming, you know, I would make these. And I honestly to this I feel bad to this day for making these comments. But like, I was thinking in my head, I was like, I know Hollywood or I thought I did. And I was like, so I'm probably not gonna be happy with everything in the episodes and I can't change that. And so I was like, I'm just gonna do this and I'm gonna get through it and I'm not gonna watch it.
• 28:51
  And that was what I was thinking. I was like, I can't watch it. This has been too hard. Like, I just I I need to get through it and see the light at the end of the tunnel, and then I don't wanna watch it. And I would, like, make these flippant comments to the crew saying, oh, I'm not gonna watch it or I yeah.
• 29:06
  There's no way I could watch it or, you know, I'm I'm scared or terrified or, you know, I'd see all these different things. And what has been interesting is that I now that I've seen the episodes and watched it, you know, come together, I I just I find myself sometimes just bawling because it's like I could not have pictured anything more beautiful than what they came up with. And, like, I know that there are ways in which it could have been better, obviously. But from the vantage point I was at when during production and how hard that was, it really makes me proud of of going through that, of getting through that, and of what I did.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It is a beautiful thing. It really is well done.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love it. I mean, I was just so proud of everybody, and I can't believe the amount of work that goes into making something like that. Like, I was just so fascinated the entire process. Like, it it's it's a fascinating process indeed.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: It's intense. They work really hard.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: They really do, and everybody does. Like, it it's and when they were putting it together in postproduction because, you know, my younger parts, like, they a lot my abusers would use empathy, like, my empathy, like, against me. And so I think that I'm more like like, some of my younger parts are, like, a lot softer and want to make sure everybody is okay a lot of the time. And so especially people that have helped us. And so when we were going through post production and I was seeing, you know, how this was coming together and it was affecting me so emotionally, I asked I begged them.
• 30:54
  I said, please please please fly us down, like, to do the last round of pickups, and I wanna meet everyone in that office and shake their hand and give them a hug and tell them thank you. And they were just like, okay. Like, we've never had that happen, but sure. And my younger parts felt so satisfied because we just wanted to, like, look at each one of them in the eye and just, like, pour out our hearts and be like, you have no idea how much this has touched us.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so beautiful. I have seen only good feedback. And in the community that I have talked to people about or even at the DID conference in Florida where did you hear that?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I did. What was that?
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Was that at your house or my house? I think that was at your house. I have children home on a school day on a snow day, so I'm not sure what's happening out there.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, no. I know.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let that go right
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: now. Feeling where you're like, where you're
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, goodness. Sorry. So, anyway, at the DID conference in Florida, people were talking about it there. And Oh, cool. They're talking about it in the groups online, obviously.
• 32:13
  And everything that I have seen has been really good other than people where it was just too close to home and they weren't ready for it.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: And the only thing that I've seen that was negative was how they portrayed the switching. But for me for me and I'm not speaking for other systems. Maybe that made them uncomfortable for whatever reason. But for me, I thought I loved it. I loved it.
• 32:39
  I didn't think it was too over the top like
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the Good. Yeah.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Fuzzy faces or whatever. Because for me, that's how I feel. Not quite in my body or not sure where my body is. Like Yeah. I when I saw that, to me, it was not too much special effects.
• 32:57
  For me, it was like, how did they do that? How did they show that? Because that's what it feels like to me when they're switching. I don't know about how it feels even to other people inside, But my experience of switching, it's just like what they showed visually. That's how I feel.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what they were trying to capture, but I think the I mean, the whole purpose for putting the edit in there is is because we know as people with DID how subtle those switches can be Right. And how, and how Hollywood, you know, hypes it up and and it's like we don't sprout wings and we know that and so like, when we switched it was hard, know, from from the network's perspective. It was like, we have viewers that need to be able to understand and and know when when Jane has gone from one part to the next. And so they just needed that little, you know, bit of editing, I think, in there to just say, okay, everybody, like, now she's switched to Jaden or Beth or, you know, whatnot. But and it was also representative of how loud it can get in my head and the and the feeling of of chaos.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: You know? Yes. I I just I really appreciated it because that's how it feels to me. Oh, yeah. I thought it was a good visual art even, not just Cool.
• 34:25
  Special effects, but there was an art piece to it of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: how they
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: expressed that. And you're very right about how loud it gets when they're switching and when there's people arguing or more opinions about something. And it does feel like there's many sides, not just that there are inside, but many sides to this argument or many sides to this topic or I'm trying to focus on something and there's so many opinions on one thing.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
• 34:56
  It feels it feels so good. It's such a unique experience to talk to somebody else with DID. Right. Even for like I feel like even for others to like see two people interact that that both have DID because it's it's like this oh, it's so interesting. It's like this unconscious, like, understanding.
• 35:20
  You know what I mean?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Resonate. Like, you already understand. Yes.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And, like, we just get it and we just know we get it. Almost like the committee in our head recognizes the committee in your head. You know what I mean? I
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: already am working on the understanding that it is not just you I'm talking to. There's Yes. Already a crowded room, and someone's climbing in my house. I don't even know.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I hope your kids are okay.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I have six kids, so there's no telling what's happening.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Well, that's that's amazing. You have a full time and a half job. We love
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the children. There's a lot to do. That's really funny. There's so many children. So when you think about children inside and children outside, like, parenting is exhausting.
• 36:13
  It is.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And do you also, like, have a hard time not ruining Christmas every year? Yes. Yes. I I having little parts inside, like, and the ones that, like, want to find the presents with my children, like, it's not okay.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Yes. It's true. In fact, yesterday, we had an incident where the children were supposed to be coming home from school, and the husband was gonna be there. And when they walk home from school, we always open, like, the front door, but the glass door is still closed. You know?
• 36:49
  But Uh-huh. It's easy for them to open the glass door. So we always open the front door so that's not hard for them. And they come in, and my husband deals with them while I sort of transition from my day without children to my day with children, which obviously involves some switching. Right?
• 37:04
  So he always helps with that transition, but he had taken another child, picked them up early, and taken them to it for a doctor's appointment, and they were delayed getting back because of the weather. And so I didn't know that, and somehow we missed the timing, And the door was closed, and so the children thought no one was home. And it turned into this big whole thing, and I was like, I don't know why you didn't just come in the house because the door was not locked. The door was not locked. The door is not locked because I was working, so I didn't go down and lock the door.
• 37:39
  I didn't lose time. Like, you guys can't pin this on me. Right? Aw. After we talked to the kids, we went to the kitchen, and they were like, dinner was already cooked.
• 37:50
  And I was like, oh. I totally locked my kids out. It was me, except it wasn't me.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I I yeah. Navigating parenting, yeah, with a bunch of pirates is definitely an experience in and of itself. Yeah.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: It's so intense. And the surprises, that's always hard. That's always hard.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Yep. That is a hard one.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: We got Legoland tickets for our child who is turning 10, and that was his birthday present. And I was so excited because he's waited he's waited, waited, waited to get to get to go. And the obviously, there were some insiders that were very excited to also go. So it was big deal. And so, like, he blows out his candles, and we give him the tickets.
• 38:49
  And before he's even done opening the envelope, he's like, are these my LEGOLAND tickets? Like, how do you know? Who told you? Aw.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. It's hard. So, yeah,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: good and bad. What's the hardest thing about parenting with DID do you think
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: besides presents? I would say the hardest thing about parenting with DID is the noise, to be completely honest with you. Because I love my children and being a mom is so easy for me and for my parts that like it it doesn't it it's it's it's the noise that really I have a hard time with. Both my boys, they have, like, severe ADHD and my youngest has, he has autism. And so they're both, like super super smart but have so much energy and they're very vocal and they're amazing.
• 39:47
  They're they tell the most incredible stories but they're very loud and so like if I'm if I'm having a hard time, I or if my head hurts or if there's a lot of switching or, for instance, if, you know, the an episode is airing or it's a Tuesday, you know, I'm sometimes all I wanna do is, like, shut myself in the room for, like, an hour because I can't think straight. You know what I mean? Right. When there's so much noise. And I couldn't imagine with six kids.
• 40:17
  That that would be overwhelming.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: It's bad. Well and we are like, the body, my body is deaf. Like, everybody is deaf, completely deaf, but we have cochlear implants. Uh-huh. So with the cochlear implants, I can talk on the podcast.
• 40:35
  I can edit the podcast. I can hear in real life, I can hear, like, one person at a time. I can hear one sound at a time. And so how that changes internally or what hearing my voices are, like, internally, which sometimes is seeing them because our native language is sign language. Yeah.
• 40:58
  And having that out with the kids and those issues, it gets really complicated. And so I can cheat because I can take my ears off. And so that can help. I can take my ears off, and it takes away the volume of the outside kids.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I I couldn't even imagine what that experience is like. And I wondered, like, that sorry. This is where my head goes because I'm such a scientist.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: But, like,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I go, like, oh my gosh. I wonder what that would look like under an fMRI. You know what I mean? With your hearing and, with DID and the different things like that, that's very interesting.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Right? It's it's it's a different experience and just a different perspective, but hearing all that noise together internally with the external noise is so hard.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: It is very, very hard. That is something I struggle with. But I I really enjoy putting in, like, binaural beats, and I'll just, you know, put headphones in and look at I there's, like, tons of different apps for binaural beats, but I set it to a certain, you know, brainwave or a certain tone frequency, and then I it'll help calm me down and stuff like that. It does help soothe the internal noise as well.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: But they are tones that go into both of your ears and that change your brain waves to a different state that you wanna be in. Like, if you wanna feel more relaxed, you know, you go into alpha or, you know, beta or whatever. And then if you wanna I'm not sure. I I can't remember which ones.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I've read about that, and I've read the research on that, but I didn't know there were just apps for it. I should've made that connection, but I didn't at all.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're really cool. The apps are super helpful.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: My oldest son also has autism. Wow. He was probably the one that was climbing the house.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Maybe. Yeah. My my youngest, he's so cute. He he's very he's very, very smart, but he also he does climb everything. That's for sure.
• 43:14
  He has no fear.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Right. They have that, and it's a thing. Okay. Anything else? I'm sorry.
• 43:23
  Got off topic. I apologize.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: It's totally fine. It's okay.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just to stay in focus.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I actually have a question for you. I I was just curious. Do you also like, have you read about, I'm sure you have the adverse childhood experiences test. Like ACEs? Yep.
• 43:47
  So do you also, have, like, random and weird and unexplainable, like, health issues as well, like, along with your DID? Because I know, like, it's so common for other people with DID. And one of my friends, Julie, who also has DID, she has several different issues, that, you know, go right along with the research in that book, in the book about the ACEs test.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I do. I have several things that I don't mind sharing. One is I have an autoimmune disorder that took a really long time for them to figure out what was going on. And
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: So we're trying to get treated for that and trying to address that, but it's pretty cranky like most autoimmune disorders. Right? Like
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is I'm trying to I'm trying to take a moment for, like, internal approval. Like, what can I issue?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm so
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: sorry if
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: that caught you off guard too.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: No. It's totally fine. I just I also don't wanna be too triggering, so I'm just trying to think. So the other issue that we have medically is that because of abuse, we have scar tissue that turned into cancer, and we've been fighting cancer for five years. That's because of scar tissue from the abuse.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Wow. I'm so sorry.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: So those are kind of the two ways it's presented for us, but I absolutely think it's about ACEs. And then my children are all adopted from foster care.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: And so You are a beautiful soul. That's amazing.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: We're a mess. No. But we're trying. But Yeah. They they I see the same thing with them, different things coming up with them that are related in the same way, I think.
• 45:49
  I mean, they all have special needs. We have three 10 year olds. One is deaf like me with cochlear implants. One is has autism, and one has cerebral palsy. And then we have two six year olds, and one of those has fetal alcohol and one has reactive attachment.
• 46:05
  Oh. Baby that's on palliative care. Well, she's not a baby. The baby of the family, you know how that goes. Like, she's three,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: almost four.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: She's not a baby at all anymore. But she was born without an airway, and that is obviously a problem. And she is on palliative care and has a g tube and oxygen and all of that. But all of them I see the ACES stuff with them too.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Wow. And what an incredible opportunity that you have to just make a difference in six incredible kids' lives. You just you changed the their entire lives. Like, that is it blows me away. That's amazing.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: We're trying. We're trying.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Aw. It's hard. I bet. Sounds very hard.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: The DID piece explains some things and makes other things harder that was already there before we had words for it, so it doesn't necessarily change things.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You are awesome. You are a very good human. It's very awesome to, like, get to talk to you and that you wanted me on your show and all of that stuff.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, well, I appreciate your time, and I appreciate you talking to us. Yeah. Of course. Is there anything else that you wanna share about you or the show or anything we missed or any impression you feel from listeners that you get asked a lot that you wanna say here or anything like that?
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I guess the only thing I I really wanna say at the at the end here is just that is just that the the people that have reached out to me, you know, in, quite frankly, in terror of the fact that they may have DID that they related so deeply to my experience that they may have it. Like, I just I feel like I just want to tell them that it's gonna be okay and that, like, it gets so much easier. You know? And, like, the more my parts and I have learned to work together and the more I've gotten to know them and, like, who they are and why they're here and why they helped me and how, like, it makes life so much more manageable and so much happier and fuller. And, you know, just like in the beginning of therapy when I was so scared, I one of my biggest fears was to actually feel the emotion, like, of sadness and to cry because I couldn't cry.
• 48:33
  Like, I could cry and watch movies. I could watch sad movies, that was how I cried. And I would use that as an outlet because I didn't have access to it otherwise.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: But I was so afraid of finally opening up that dam. But once I did, I'm able to now feel other emotions like happiness even more deeply and fuller. You know what I mean? And I had forgotten about that. And so I guess it's just like it makes me sad that there's a lot of people out there that are struggling or that are in this panic mode, and I just I just wanna I wanna be like, it'll it'll get better.
• 49:10
  Like, hang in there.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: It's so true. It's really scary in the beginning when you don't understand what's going on or why it's happening. But I agree with you. The more that we learn, which for us has happened a lot through the podcast, it's kind of like you talk about watching the show. Yeah.
• 49:26
  Learned so much that I never knew about some of them from listening
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: to the podcast. So
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, but it is I mean, that it is so much less scary when you just see how real they are and how human they are and what they mean and reaching out to them. Thank you so much.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. You're you're very like, what you're doing is amazing with this podcast. I think it's it's really incredible, and I commend you for it. It's a big deal.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for the show. I feel like like, I don't wanna put added pressure on you, but at the same time, I can't not recognize what a big deal it is, what you've done, and what A and E has done. Yeah. I feel like we had such breakthroughs early in the field of studying this. I mean, it's been around longer than that, but in the early years of studying it.
• 50:28
  And then there were some breakthroughs of attempts. Like, the field exploded of trying to understand and trying to help and trying to put pieces together. Mhmm. And then we had the whole backlash of, no. Don't talk about it because it's scary, and you're gonna get in trouble, which retraumatized so many.
• 50:45
  And Yes. Then the response to that with more stigma and movies that are so cruel and and how they depict it or TV shows or things. And so to have an honest, raw, and real depiction of what DID is like, what it looks like from the outside, what it feels like from the inside is such a gift to so many people and kind of changes the whole hashtag me too to the hashtag we too
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: language. Yes.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: It's just it's a powerful thing, and I am so grateful to you and to A and E and for your courage in doing this. Thank you.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you so much. I I really appreciate that. You it's it's been it's been such a wild ride and such a interesting journey. But I feel like with just FYI for the next episode on Tuesday, the next two episodes because they go back to back five and six do on Tuesday, but it's that one's going to be a really hard one that, like, it I don't have recollection.
• 51:55
  Usually, when one of my parts, Ashley, is out, and she opened up in a way that I didn't realize during production and said things that, like, I had had no idea what she had said in the in the diary cam. And Wow. So when I watched it, I just broke down and cried. I was like, this is, like it's powerful, but it's, like, almost, like, so mortifying that this is my life that's about to be out there of something so intimate of, like, the the trauma. And so just an FYI, is, like it'll be pretty triggering for a lot of people.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the heads up. I'm I'm
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: grateful
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: even for her courage in sharing and to say things out loud when so many of us have been told for so long not to say anything.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a powerful thing. It really is. And that part has grown so much because of that. So it's, you know, it's a good thing.
• 52:54
  Been so fun for me. Like, such a good experience to be able to talk to someone like minded.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I am so glad. I I appreciate it, and I didn't know we had so many things in common either. That was pretty funny. Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this.
• 53:27
  Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community@www.systemspeakcommunity.com. We'll see you there.