Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / Building The Next Seven Gold Standards in Women’s Health with Carmen van Vilsteren | Ep. 151

Transcript

Building The Next Seven Gold Standards in Women’s Health with Carmen van Vilsteren | Ep. 151 · Women Disrupting Tech

• 0:00
  So I thought, let's aim for seven new golden standards
• 0:04
  somewhere in the field of healthcare, right?
• 0:05
  Can be anywhere. And so that was, I thought this
• 0:08
  was a nice ambition also concrete ambition, right?
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  It's always nice that you not just say I want to contribute or
• 0:15
  I want to connect people. No, I want to to contribute to
• 0:19
  getting 7 new golden standards somewhere in healthcare.
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  And I like to do that with seven females that I coach to do the
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  same because I really believe in the multiplier effect or in the
• 0:30
  fleece wheel effect in that. So I can contribute myself, but
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  it's even better to help seven others to do the same in their
• 0:37
  life. Hey, welcome back to Women
• 0:55
  Disrupting Tech, and thank you for tuning in to episode 151.
• 1:01
  I'm your host, dear Kanupkas, and this is the podcast that
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  closes the funding gap in venture capital by amplifying
• 1:08
  the stories of female founders and their investors.
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  In this episode, I'm joined by Carmen von Thielstein.
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  Carmen is a visionary innovator in Med tech with a track record
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  of helping bring technologies to the market that have become
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  global standards in healthcare. Today, she is on a new mission
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  to help create 7 new gold standards in healthcare by
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  begging and coaching the next generation of female founders.
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  By listening to our conversation, you'll learn three
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  things First, what it actually takes to turn a promising
• 1:44
  technology into a standard that doctors trust and adult.
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  Second, why Women's Health may be one of the biggest overlooked
• 1:53
  opportunities in healthcare innovation today And 3rd, how
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  founders can use early capital strategically to reach the
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  inflection points that unlock real.
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  Growth Plus. You'll learn why validating your
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  Med tech solution locally is key to scaling it globally later.
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  So when you're ready to learn about building meaningful
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  innovation, improving healthcare, and where the next
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  wave of impact may come from, here's my conversation with
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  Carmen von Fehlstein. Carmen von Fehlstein.
• 2:27
  Good morning. Great to have you on the on
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  women disrupting tech. Maybe for the people who do not
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  know you. Good to start with a little
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  background on yourself and how did you end up building a career
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  in tech, healthcare and innovation?
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  Well, I was from when I was young.
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  I was always interesting both in creative things, working with my
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  hands, but also in technology, science, mathematics.
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  So after some searching around, I accidentally bumped into the
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  education of industrial design and engineering at the TU in
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  Delft and I immediately failed for it.
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  So I accidentally visited opening day and then I
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  immediately thought this is what I'm looking for because it was
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  the OR. It is the combination of
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  creativity, but also technology and making better things,
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  designing better things. So I joined the education very
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  much because basically learned me the whole process of
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  innovation from the very start. So what is the unmet need or
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  what is what is what you like to improve until really doing that
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  and at the education in the health, you also had to do it
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  all yourself. So you could come up with a
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  nicer the area of a new device or chair or whatever, but you
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  also had to make it yourself in the workshop.
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  So you were learning that if you did choose a specific
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  technology, but was not easy to use and it is it's really
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  difficult and it makes the product more cumbersome or
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  difficult to make or, or or so it it learned me the whole
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  process of innovation and I'm still liking very much that I
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  know that help process because I speak the language of designers,
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  I speak the language of people that I have to do logistics.
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  I speak the language of people that had to do market
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  introduction, etcetera. And then I joined Philips.
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  So that was my first job after graduating in Dell and after
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  five years being a consultant within Philips for very
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  different divisions for Philips because Philips was still very
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  big. So I was consultant in compact
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  disk, in domestic appliances, but also in in in more
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  professional equipment because I was working at a central
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  division of Philips. After five years, I was tired
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  to, to advise others what to do when in I wanted to make my feet
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  dirty as we found out both in the clay.
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  So then I, I got an offer for a job within healthcare in, in
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  Best, which is closer to Eindhoven.
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  And I got an offer for a job to become the project manager for
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  new geometry for cardiovascular applications.
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  And also there I got the opportunity to pull that whole
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  processor. So not just to the design or the
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  marketing or whatever, but to pull that whole process from the
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  very early start to what is needed for the patient and for
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  the doctor, etc. And really pulling that into a
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  complete new product. And also do that with the team
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  that of people that are actually located in Best.
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  So because I know very much said that if you have a big
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  organization, then very often you get silos and internal
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  politics. And that I already learned, of
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  course, in my first years between Philips.
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  So I choose this position because I very much like the
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  application, but I also very much like the organization that
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  that was building these new products.
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  So you could really have everybody on the table working
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  on the same project, working in the same objectives rather than
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  internal politics. So technology and innovation was
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  all, all already have from, from I think when I was 10 in my
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  interest and when I was about 30 had the healthcare was added to
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  it because I, I, I, I joined Philips Medical Systems.
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  OK. So you said you liked the the
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  offers in best very much because the because of, let's say, the
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  short connections that you have. I just woke up to to to another
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  room to, to solve a problem. What made healthcare interesting
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  to you? Well, in, in my first five
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  years, I also worked for domestic appliances and
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  consumer. And I was then I could still
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  become enthusiastic about data because he has to solve problems
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  because as a designer, you're basically a problem solver.
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  That's what basically what the designers are.
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  And then the reason that I joined Best was both because I
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  like the products and I like the organization and my role.
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  But to be honest, when I worked for half year or so in Best, I
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  couldn't image myself anymore to, to become enthusiastic about
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  a vacuum cleaner project, which I, I, I, I have been, I was very
• 7:24
  enthusiastic about the vacuum project 2 years before.
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  But to be honest, when I moved to, to, to, to medical, which
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  was not really accidentally, yeah, but it was a combination
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  of reasons that I moved there. I couldn't image myself as a
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  next a job to be in a in a different field than healthcare
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  anymore. Why?
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  What made it click for you? Well, because it's really it's
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  the next section cleaner. There's, there's, of course you
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  can solve better vacuum cleaning, but still had to, to,
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  to, to, to work to be able to work on improving patients
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  quality of life and, and, and having impact worldwide because
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  of course, Phillips, I worked for cardiovascular and Phillips
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  is market leader in the cardiovascular market.
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  So actually the projects I worked on are new intervention
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  systems that have an impact worldwide on on patients lives
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  directly. Yeah, so, so I was lucky to work
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  on on systems that are still on the market.
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  These are still state-of-the-art.
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  These are still the golden standards in cardiovascular
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  intervention. And every second, somewhere in
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  the world a patient is treated. Basically their lives is safe
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  using these systems. Well.
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  That doesn't impact that you can never reach with a vacuum
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  cleaner. No, no, no, that's it's, yeah.
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  It's really transcends, let's say the the ordinary appliances
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  that we use every day. It's it's, but it was it also
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  because that was in effect, it's life saving technology.
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  Sure, sure, but I don't want to downplay a better vacuum
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  cleaner, so let me make that clear.
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  But for me, there was an extra. There was an extra box or an
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  extra part of my heart touched by working on healthcare.
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  So, so you developed this, this device, I think it was an
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  imaging system that is still used to identify where stents
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  go. So the if you do, I think it's
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  called Dalton in Dutch. So you do intervention and where
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  you broaden the heart, the aorta that you can actually see where
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  to put that. Well, this is one of the
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  applications, yes. So basically what I did is I
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  made a new geometry for looking into vessels all over the body.
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  So for instance, you can also look in vessel into the lags or
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  in vessels into the brains. So you have different
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  application within cardiovascular and then what you
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  first do is image where there is something wrong with the vessel
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  which can be in occlusion and which is very known for a heart
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  attack of course. But it can also be what we call
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  an aneurysm. That means that there is a kind
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  of bubble like you have a bubble on your tube of your bike that
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  can also be a kind of bubble on a vessel and you can.
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  So you first do the diagnosis, which is the imaging, but we
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  move more and more or already 25 years to go.
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  But even today, of course, towards not only imaging, doing
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  the diagnostics, but also the treatment.
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  And then the treatment is what we call the PTCA or the the
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  daughter in that. Yeah, which, but it can also,
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  for instance, be in the brain. When there is a tumor in the
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  brain and you close the blood vessels towards the tumor, which
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  is not opening a vessel but actually closing a vessel, then
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  you reduce the the the blood flow towards the brain, the
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  tumor, which means that you make the tumor string.
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  So it can be it's diagnosis what is wrong within vessels or
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  what's happening within vessels all over the body and then do
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  the intervention. Yeah, OK.
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  And that total geometry has now become global standard.
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  So what what goes into developing a global standard?
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  Can you separate the different parts that you worked on?
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  Well, I think of course a global standard is the basic thing is
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  that's been accepted as a global standard.
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  Yeah, you can, you can of course aim for a new golden global
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  standard. But the main thing is the
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  acceptance. So that means that basically
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  everybody that is working in this field know this is the
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  product to use that. And for instance, an, an, an
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  example that that was used a little bit tricky example
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  perhaps, but but but at that point of time, there was a story
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  that the CEO of General Electric, which was the, the the
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  the main competitor wanted to be treated by a Phillips system.
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  Well, there isn't better commercial messaging than that,
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  I think. To be honest, I'm not sure it's
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  true, but but if you have a market share of 40% like let's
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  make it more factual, so and Philips has a market share of
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  about 40% in this markets, well that's a golden standard.
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  Yeah, so, but but what goes into that before it?
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  Oh yeah, this. Is your question, So what was it
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  make a call in standard, Well, of course say you really have to
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  solve an unmet need, that's where it all started.
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  So what is really missing now in the current products or in the
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  current market or in current solution?
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  So it always start with an unmet need.
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  So what is not addressed today? And then you have to develop
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  that in a proper way that it's been used intuitively, that it's
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  easy to use, that it's you don't have to explain a lot, that it's
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  very easy for all the stakeholders.
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  So not only the doctor, but choosing the system, but it's
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  also patient friendly. It fits small patients to long
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  patients. It's, it's very easy to use.
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  And then of course you have to have the market channels to
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  bring it towards the market. And that's the advantage to work
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  for a big company like Philips compared with a startup company.
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  You can develop something that is that fits the unmet need and
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  it's really better than for instance, something that's on
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  the market. But then you still have to bring
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  it to the market, which is also a huge effort.
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  And that's the advantage to have been the, the, the privilege,
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  but also the experience for work with Phillips.
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  I've done this complete cycle from the very start till the
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  market introduction 3 times in a big company.
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  Then you really learn what it all takes to bring that also to
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  the markets and the whole process of doing the clinical
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  trials that convince the effort stakeholder and and then get it
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  into the market, get it used and then again use the feedback of
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  the first users if needed that in the next release or whatever.
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  That takes a very long process in healthcare and it takes a lot
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  of money. And then at some point of time,
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  hey, you are, you did. You are becoming the golden
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  center. Yeah.
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  So what I'm hearing you say is, is a that it takes a lot of
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  marked research also and really understanding what you might
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  need really is. Definitely.
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  And then to test it there if your solution is really
• 14:39
  addressing the unmet needs. Yeah.
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  So did you then go to a hospital in Eindhoven, let's say to to do
• 14:47
  a pilot? How does that work if you're a
• 14:50
  Phillips? Well, when I joined medical
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  systems, the very first month, I spent several days in hospitals.
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  So immediately I was I started with one project.
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  And so so my clinical science colleagues and it bring me to
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  new HEIM everything wasn't it is an important cardiovascular
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  hospital and to lighten these were the 2 main collaboration in
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  the Netherlands. But of course, I also went to
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  the US and to and to other markets to look at, talk to
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  doctors, but also just sit in the in the in the observation
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  room and see what's happening in the observation room yourself.
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  Because it is very different that somebody tells you, okay,
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  well, if you have a software error and the system freeze and
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  there's a patient on the table and it can be dangerous.
• 15:35
  Yeah, that's, that's somebody can tell you that.
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  But if you're there and it happens, it has of course a
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  completely different impact on on what you're doing, which you
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  can again yourself bring over to your software engineers or hey,
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  even better. I think at that point of time, I
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  hope it's still the case. Basically every new employee
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  also in the R&D department went to hospitals at least one or two
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  times to be there really as an observer observator in the in,
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  in the room, they usually have kind of observative room.
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  So you don't have to really be next to the patient because then
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  you might, you might be in the way.
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  But, but, but, but that was always what we try to do when I
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  think most of the startup companies I work with now are
• 16:23
  doing the same. Hey, you really have to be there
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  and and and see what's happening and not just once a preferable
• 16:30
  multiple times in multiple countries, in multiple, in
• 16:33
  multiple applications, etcetera. Yeah, so, so let's take a little
• 16:39
  step back and forward. We met at the Fee Plus Mill Tech
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  Heroes Awards, where you won the WAR award at the end of your
• 16:48
  career, you won your first award and in your acceptance speech
• 16:53
  you said that you have the ambition to fund the next 7
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  global standards in healthcare. How is that ambition connected
• 17:02
  to your own experience? What makes in your experience
• 17:07
  that you have this ambition now? Well, to be honest, I have sent
• 17:11
  for many, many years said that what I did for cardiovascular
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  was a kind of 1A in terms of that was such a great experience
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  in terms of creating a golden standard that I would never meet
• 17:23
  at again in my career. I really had the the thoughts.
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  But then last year I was thinking about what I wanted to
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  do after my role at Ministry of Economic Affairs and that have
• 17:34
  been for seven years the chair of the top sector life science
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  and health. In that sense, you can also make
• 17:41
  real impact because if you set up new strategic collaborations,
• 17:46
  that can also have big impact. But it's more indirect, I would
• 17:50
  say, and it's more by stimulating others to do things.
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  But then I realized that I still wanted to, to, to contribute to
• 17:59
  healthcare in general. And that's also my, my, one of
• 18:03
  the start-ups area. I helped, I started helping
• 18:07
  about 20 years ago, actually also became the golden standard
• 18:10
  in a completely different fields.
• 18:12
  So then I thought, well, I like to be ambitious.
• 18:15
  I like the number 7. I once gave a talk the seven
• 18:20
  habits of effective females. I like a little bit.
• 18:22
  I like coffee because from from background, I am also very much
• 18:26
  a project manager, project leader.
• 18:29
  So I like the seven habits of effective leaders from coffee is
• 18:33
  one of my my favorite management books.
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  So I once gave a talk about the seven habits of effective
• 18:39
  females. So I thought, well, let's do 7.
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  Let's aim for seven new golden standard somewhere in the field
• 18:46
  of healthcare, right? Can be anywhere.
• 18:48
  And so that was I thought this was a nice ambition also
• 18:51
  concrete ambition head. It's always nice that you not
• 18:55
  just say I want to contribute or I want to connect people.
• 18:58
  No, I want to, to contribute to, to getting 7 new golden
• 19:04
  standards somewhere in healthcare.
• 19:06
  And I like to do that with seven females that I coach to do the
• 19:09
  same because I really believe in the multiplier effect or in the
• 19:14
  fleet wheel effect in that. So I can contribute myself, but
• 19:18
  it's even better to help seven others and to to do the same in
• 19:22
  their life. Yeah, Out of curiosity, what was
• 19:25
  the other start of doing? But the other startup was making
• 19:29
  also an imaging system, but then imaging for preclinical imaging.
• 19:33
  So there's still, I learned recently hundreds, million
• 19:37
  animals used there or in, in preclinical studies in Europe
• 19:42
  only. And at that point of time there
• 19:45
  were not proper imaging systems for imaging these animals.
• 19:48
  So these animals were were basically all sacrificed
• 19:52
  immediately. And then they were well, sorry
• 19:55
  for the cut in pieces and then under a microscope or something,
• 20:00
  they were investigated. So because the the clinical
• 20:03
  image, if you put in a in a clinical imaging system a mice
• 20:07
  and the resolution is not enough, we will not see
• 20:09
  anything. So these were dedicated systems
• 20:12
  for enema for imaging of of mice in rats that make a similar or
• 20:18
  even better resolution in a mice than a clinical system in a
• 20:21
  woman in an in an in. An A human, yeah.
• 20:27
  Is it by chance was that technique also then implemented
• 20:31
  for humans? That's a very good question.
• 20:35
  Because I I would think like if you can do the imaging on a
• 20:39
  mouse, you can actually better do it on a on a.
• 20:44
  Human in theory it was. That was to be honest also the
• 20:47
  main reason that I joined the company because I thought that's
• 20:50
  interesting to improve preclinical imaging, but I would
• 20:52
  be even more interested to do clinical imaging.
• 20:55
  So at that point of time I also had breast cancer and one of the
• 20:58
  first applications was research for breast cancer by doing it in
• 21:03
  my set. But all the IP have Fred Begman
• 21:07
  was the the CEO and founder of the company.
• 21:10
  It was it was a spin off. This is a spin off from UMCU
• 21:14
  drift and I was working on a similar fields in Philips.
• 21:18
  It was my last my last job. So I did similar things within
• 21:21
  Philips in my last job. And then I created Philips and
• 21:24
  then he asked me to help him as business developer for the start
• 21:29
  up company. And then all the was basically
• 21:32
  also suited for, for humans. So we, he did build a prototype
• 21:37
  for that. But at the end there were too
• 21:39
  many complications because it was a pinhole technology that's
• 21:43
  become perhaps a little bit too, too, too much technical.
• 21:46
  But for mice, you can make a large magnification.
• 21:49
  So you put the mice very close to a pinhole and, and then you
• 21:53
  put the detector very far away. So basically you do a pinhole
• 21:57
  imaging like the camera obscura. Yeah.
• 22:00
  And then so you need a large distance between the detector
• 22:04
  and and and and the animal, which is OK for a mice, but if
• 22:08
  you do that for a human. Yeah, it becomes complicated.
• 22:11
  It becomes complicated, becomes very big and becomes very
• 22:15
  expensive. So at the end there was only a
• 22:19
  prototype clinical system of that and we never made it to a
• 22:22
  clinical system. OK.
• 22:25
  But it might be get a follow up so so right now I know the the
• 22:32
  founder of Fred Bakeman has ID or said to to improve the
• 22:35
  technology in another way. So a new breast scanner is still
• 22:41
  on my wish list to become one of the seven projects the account.
• 22:45
  OK, Yeah, I can imagine also because breast cancer is quite,
• 22:50
  it's literally touchy topic, but also for for women because it's
• 22:55
  sort of, I don't know how that was for you, but I hear many
• 23:00
  women with breast cancer saying it's also part of my about part
• 23:03
  of my identity because it's about your breast.
• 23:06
  Yeah. Yeah, sure it's I think everyone
• 23:09
  experience a different but having a breast cancer of course
• 23:12
  is very is it has a very huge impact on your, on your life, on
• 23:16
  your health, on your life, on your image, on yourself,
• 23:19
  confidence etcetera. So it's still on my wish list to
• 23:23
  also contributes to the next golden standard in breast
• 23:27
  imaging. OK, well, if there's any
• 23:30
  start-ups listening who have this on their on their who are
• 23:37
  developing this, I think there's I know one start up, but it's
• 23:40
  not Dutch. It's Australian, I think it's
• 23:44
  Cornish health. I know quite a few there count
• 23:48
  because of course I know a little bit, but it's it's not
• 23:51
  easy. And also there to be honest,
• 23:53
  this part has to do part with the market acceptance.
• 23:56
  So, so for instance, in the Netherlands, this X-ray imaging,
• 24:02
  we know that for women with dense breast tissue, this
• 24:08
  imaging doesn't work, but that's not what we report.
• 24:11
  So if you have if you are a female, you have dense breast
• 24:13
  imaging, you do the screening, then you get the outcome and
• 24:17
  they say we didn't find anything.
• 24:19
  Well in other countries it already for for different for
• 24:22
  years. It's mandatory that is reported.
• 24:25
  Sorry, you have desbrance tissue, we can't see if
• 24:29
  something things happening and you you can go for a second
• 24:33
  scan, which is at this moment of time mostly an Mr. scan.
• 24:38
  So in the Netherlands that became mandatory also recently.
• 24:42
  So so right now females that are known that they have test breast
• 24:46
  dense. Breast.
• 24:48
  Tissue they they can ask for an Mr. scan with our Ministry of
• 24:52
  Health has has already indicated that they can only implement
• 24:56
  that in 2030. Why?
• 25:00
  Because they don't have enough MRI scanners and it's too
• 25:03
  expensive, blah de blah de blah. Yeah, I I think that's
• 25:06
  incredible in, in, in a bad sense that that's.
• 25:11
  Usually. So I'm talking to people that
• 25:14
  have ideas, especially for this desperate, dense breasts.
• 25:18
  Dense. Breasts.
• 25:20
  Tissue. And that is so.
• 25:23
  So I really hope that I can contribute to that as well.
• 25:26
  And I can put this on the list of seven there.
• 25:28
  You call them standards. That's my ambition.
• 25:31
  OK, well that. Sounds like one of my ambitions.
• 25:35
  Yeah, one of one of the seven. So that's any indication of the
• 25:39
  other six or is that like? It can be anything as so right
• 25:43
  now I have invested in a company or actually actually I was Co
• 25:47
  founder and also the first CEO of a company that makes a robot
• 25:51
  for microsurgery. So robotics is of course already
• 25:55
  on the market, but it's mostly in the market for known in fact,
• 26:00
  for minimal invasive surgery. That sort of means that you go
• 26:03
  into the body. There's nothing on the market
• 26:05
  yet as a as a golden standard for open surgery, which is
• 26:09
  especially for microsurgery important is so for instance, if
• 26:14
  you have to repair small vessels somewhere or one of the
• 26:18
  applications is also to treat lymphedema.
• 26:22
  Lymphedema is accidentally also related to breast cancer.
• 26:27
  So when your lymph nodes are are taken off, hey, you have a
• 26:32
  higher chance that there is moisture in your in your arms.
• 26:36
  Right now there is no treatment for that, but there as a
• 26:39
  treatment you can make a bypass between the lymph nodes and the
• 26:43
  blood vessels in your arm. But it's a very precise
• 26:47
  procedure because these lymph nodes are awkward 3mm and then
• 26:51
  you have to make 6 stitchers between the the lymph node and
• 26:57
  which is very hard to do. So with this rowboat you can do
• 27:00
  that. And as we founded a company
• 27:02
  exactly 10 years ago, I say yesterday at LinkedIn, it's a 10
• 27:06
  year anniversary of of Micro short.
• 27:08
  That's the name of the company. It's a spin off of the TU
• 27:11
  Eindhofer, and I was cofounder and also the first CEO of the
• 27:17
  company. So that is one of the candidates
• 27:19
  also become the golden standard because there are two companies
• 27:23
  worldwide that are working on this minimal open surgery for
• 27:28
  robotics. Then I invested in a company
• 27:31
  who's who might become the new golden standard for antibiotic
• 27:35
  the term and right antibiotics for infections.
• 27:38
  That is a company that recently raised in the Netherlands
• 27:41
  25,000,000 which is a huge amount of money.
• 27:45
  So that might also be a candidate.
• 27:47
  Then I invested in a company that is working that's FIFA X.
• 27:51
  That company is developing a new way of breast reconstructions
• 27:56
  accidentally there these are these are companies that are
• 28:00
  related to breast reconstruction or to breast cancer.
• 28:03
  So with that technology, you don't need to really remove fat
• 28:08
  big parts of of somebody'd body or fat tissue to make a
• 28:13
  reconstruction, because of course, we all know silicon is
• 28:16
  not really nice to, to work with for breast reconstruction.
• 28:20
  So the current practice or the the current golden standard base
• 28:24
  is said to remove tissue, but it's a really in very invasive
• 28:28
  complicated surgery and then also not suited for for
• 28:33
  everybody. So if you can use only fit the
• 28:36
  fat cells and then we inject that into the breasts, but then
• 28:40
  these fat cells, these die, these die.
• 28:44
  So FIFA Art X is developing a kind of biomaterial that you
• 28:48
  make a kind of scaffolds together with the cells.
• 28:52
  So then the set the cells basically survive and multiply
• 28:56
  themselves or other than that which may, which might become
• 28:59
  the new golden standard for breast reconstruction.
• 29:02
  That would be wonderful, because then you do the work once and
• 29:06
  you don't need to. Yeah.
• 29:08
  And it's much less in phase. So, so you don't need to really
• 29:12
  cut tissue from somebody's back or from somebody's belly and
• 29:17
  make sure that all the vessels are attached to it, etcetera.
• 29:20
  And it's, it's I, I never choose to do such a reconstruction
• 29:24
  because I didn't want to do it. So I, I, I have one breast left
• 29:28
  there. I only have one breast.
• 29:30
  I didn't never did a reconstruction.
• 29:32
  But was that on purpose? Maybe it's personal, OK.
• 29:36
  Yeah, yeah. So, but I had breast cancer 20
• 29:38
  years ago and then it was the protocol that you, that they
• 29:43
  first did removal of the breast and then you started with
• 29:47
  chemotherapy and radiation and then in my case, also hormone
• 29:51
  therapy. And then after a year or so,
• 29:53
  hey, my, my doctor asked me, OK, now you were electable for
• 29:57
  breast reconstruction. Do you want to do that?
• 30:00
  But I didn't want to go to the hospital back for breast
• 30:02
  reconstruction. And nowadays they usually
• 30:05
  combine it with the combination with the first surgery.
• 30:08
  So that's a little bit different.
• 30:10
  OK, would that have changed your your choice?
• 30:17
  Yeah, probably it would have changed my choice because I
• 30:19
  already was used a year with living with one breast and with
• 30:22
  the scars etcetera. And I really didn't and I
• 30:25
  already knew at that point of time there was still a lot of
• 30:27
  complications attached to higher complication chance.
• 30:32
  So I decided not not to go for another surgery.
• 30:36
  Yeah. So when we talked about creating
• 30:39
  golden standards, one of the things that you touched on was
• 30:43
  acceptance by doctors. Yeah.
• 30:46
  How do how can founders do that? How, how do you build
• 30:50
  credibility? Is that because to me that's a
• 30:53
  huge length? Sounds like a lengthy process
• 30:57
  to. Do Yeah, well, what you usually
• 31:00
  do is you look for key opinion leaders.
• 31:02
  So key opinion leaders are people that are no in the field
• 31:06
  because they have high ranked scientific publications had that
• 31:11
  they speak on conferences, etcetera, etcetera.
• 31:13
  So usually these are the elderly doctors had that already are
• 31:18
  alone in the fields and have a very well international
• 31:22
  reputation because everything they do within healthcare, the
• 31:25
  market is worldwide. And it's never, it's never.
• 31:29
  It's usually not interesting to do something just for the Dutch
• 31:33
  market, especially if you talk about technology that requires a
• 31:37
  lot of investment. So you always look to key
• 31:40
  opinion leaders. But to be honest, this key
• 31:42
  opinion leaders usually are also quite arrogant and because
• 31:47
  everybody wants to work. With the key opinion leaders.
• 31:51
  Yeah. So, so, so the best way in doing
• 31:53
  it is doing it on three levels. So, so work with local people
• 31:58
  that that that you like and that you trust and that you help you
• 32:01
  with doing the evaluation and that want to spend time on you.
• 32:05
  And then you do the key opinion leaders had to have in your
• 32:08
  scientific Advisory Board and talk to you about conference
• 32:11
  etcetera. And then what's, what's also
• 32:14
  works very well is that you do that, you try to approach people
• 32:18
  that want to become the key opinion leaders but are not
• 32:20
  there yet. And, and they usually want to,
• 32:24
  to really put time in new technology because that is the
• 32:28
  kind of things that can help them also to become this new key
• 32:33
  opinion leaders because they were the first to use your
• 32:35
  robots and they can publish about it.
• 32:37
  Or they were the first to, to use your new press
• 32:41
  reconstruction technology and then they can publish about it.
• 32:44
  So you also it's, it's never 1 pathway.
• 32:46
  And then it usually takes a lot of money because there's key
• 32:50
  opinion leaders basically so often they also want to get paid
• 32:55
  for things here. So you have to raise money to be
• 32:57
  able to do that. Then people also ask often, OK,
• 33:01
  you have put your your device in for free.
• 33:04
  And I will see if so it takes not only a lot of time, it also
• 33:07
  takes a lot of money. And then what is what can even
• 33:11
  what's even harder as we talk about the current gold standard
• 33:14
  for breast imaging that is X-ray that is all over the place.
• 33:18
  So there are many people that's their business case to do
• 33:22
  screening with X-ray. So that's another barrier.
• 33:26
  So if you want to fight the current golden standard in case
• 33:30
  of the breast, the breast imaging, they're also
• 33:33
  politically and company interests, etcetera, etcetera.
• 33:37
  So it's even harder. How do you say replace existing
• 33:41
  golden standard? Yeah, but that's then not only.
• 33:45
  So you don't only have to show that your product results are
• 33:49
  better, which you also have to do, for lack of better word, a
• 33:55
  bit of infighting in an organization to that, yeah, then
• 34:01
  also to to get it adopted. Definitely.
• 34:04
  So of course, again, an example of of breast imaging, there are
• 34:09
  there are a number of companies and organization that is their
• 34:12
  business case and they live though if you come up with a new
• 34:15
  technology, they're basically bank routes or or debts.
• 34:19
  So they will of course do everything to fight you.
• 34:24
  Yeah, yeah. Those are the incumbents that
• 34:28
  that actually will make your life miserable.
• 34:32
  How? How can you work?
• 34:34
  So this is also, to be honest here calm.
• 34:36
  Why I thought, hey, well, I have been able to work on one golden
• 34:41
  standards. That's a bar or a benchmark I
• 34:44
  will never meet again. I thought that's for many, many
• 34:47
  years until recently, while I thought, well, well, perhaps,
• 34:52
  perhaps, perhaps it's possible to do more.
• 34:55
  Yeah. So what made that change for you
• 34:59
  that you fought like, hey, maybe there is something more is was
• 35:04
  that working with the startups that you work with?
• 35:07
  Was that about seeing technology?
• 35:10
  Was that doing the work that you did with Health?
• 35:13
  Hollands for the Ministry of Economic Affairs.
• 35:16
  Well, that's a very, that's a good question.
• 35:19
  It was of course a combination of things, but the main trigger
• 35:23
  perhaps it sounds strange, but I, I had to update my CV for a
• 35:27
  certain thing. Doesn't matter.
• 35:29
  And then somebody asked me about, so you also have
• 35:32
  scientific publications, say you don't have somebody did read my
• 35:37
  draft CV and he said, but I don't see any scientific
• 35:41
  publications. So that's missing from your CV.
• 35:45
  And that makes me, to be honest, a little bit angry because I
• 35:49
  thought, well, who cares about? You are with 30 years of
• 35:54
  experience. Also, I also I sometimes got an
• 35:58
  offer from people I worked with that do you want to be
• 36:00
  co-author? And so far I always said no, I
• 36:03
  said no, that I would, I'm not, I'm not.
• 36:06
  My ambition is not the scientific careers I'll have.
• 36:09
  Thanks for the offer. But it's fine.
• 36:10
  I don't want to be co-author etcetera, etcetera.
• 36:12
  So I thought and that made me think what did I contribute to
• 36:16
  what products are that are really important worldwide?
• 36:18
  Did I contribute? So I started to make a list of
• 36:21
  that and then I I came up with these files already which I
• 36:24
  mentioned. So, so Philips, then the
• 36:27
  startups and on the preclinical imaging and then the three
• 36:30
  examples I just mentioned. And then I thought, well,
• 36:34
  actually I have contributed to 2 Golden Standard worldwide and I
• 36:39
  have three in the pipeline that might become the Golden
• 36:41
  Standard. So then I thought, well, let's
• 36:43
  make the new ambition out of that because my ambition is also
• 36:47
  to expand it. So I'm now focusing on mostly on
• 36:52
  being an age-old investor because the preclinical started
• 36:56
  was sold successfully. So I have someone in the bank
• 36:59
  that I want to put forward in the ecosystem.
• 37:03
  So I'm already active as an investor since three years and
• 37:08
  my ambition is to expand that further and but especially in
• 37:12
  things that is our, I recently added that as an explicit target
• 37:17
  to into startups with an innovation that can become the
• 37:20
  new gold standard. Yeah, before we go there, I just
• 37:25
  want to highlight one thing, because you now actually do have
• 37:29
  a publication in your name since this week, I think it's
• 37:34
  published in The Lancet. It's on why investing in Women's
• 37:37
  Health is a social imperative. So how did that then happen?
• 37:44
  Did you think, well, I need to have that publication so I might
• 37:50
  as well do some take this publication as a as a starting
• 37:55
  point. It was also that is a fair is a
• 37:58
  little bit funny story. So I'm lobbying in the
• 38:02
  Netherlands on getting a dedicated fund on Pentech on
• 38:06
  Women's Health. Yeah.
• 38:07
  So actually three years ago, although I had breast cancer
• 38:12
  myself and also some other issues, I never focused on
• 38:15
  Women's Health as a topic. I focused on women in tech.
• 38:19
  I focused on innovations like the golden standard.
• 38:23
  I focused on female entrepreneurs because of course,
• 38:26
  I've experienced myself that it's not so easy to be a female
• 38:30
  entrepreneur in this high tech or, or life science and health
• 38:34
  domain. I never focused on Women's
• 38:36
  Health as a professionally. So until three years ago, three
• 38:41
  years ago I was at exactly 3 years ago, I was at
• 38:44
  International Women's Day at Orhano.
• 38:46
  I was invited there and they're actually my, my, my one of my
• 38:51
  colleagues asked me the question, Carmen, why don't we
• 38:54
  have her from health alone? So from the top sector, why did
• 38:58
  we never have initiated A strategic public private
• 39:01
  partnership on Women's Health? Because we have one oncology, we
• 39:05
  have one on the other medicine we've run on cardiovascular, we
• 39:07
  have 25 in the last 12 years. We did help starting about 25
• 39:14
  strategic Public Partnerships. None was about Women's Health.
• 39:19
  So three years ago, my colleague asked me that question and that
• 39:23
  really made a change in my mind. So I started digging into it.
• 39:28
  So I said, yeah, well, good question.
• 39:30
  I don't know. So from three years ago I did
• 39:33
  start into Women's Health as a topic and actually we have now 2
• 39:40
  consortiums in Women's Health funded by Health Holland last
• 39:44
  year. So in December last year, two
• 39:46
  Women's Health consortiums Public Partnerships got funded
• 39:50
  with 5 million out of the 32 were so 10 million out of 32.
• 39:55
  Last year money from Health Holland went to Women's Health,
• 39:58
  which is really nice and one of the P is of that of.
• 40:03
  So 1 is from Erosmus University, which has a Women's Health
• 40:07
  innovation centre and the other one is from say from you did
• 40:12
  Hauner. She is the Pi of a of a
• 40:15
  consortium that is related to it's called Fem cure, the
• 40:19
  consortium from Erosmus. Hanukkah Tuckerberg was also in
• 40:22
  your podcast. She is the Pi from the Erosmus
• 40:26
  Leaders 1 which is called Menopause matters.
• 40:30
  So they got 5 million and then also it say called 5 million you
• 40:36
  did Tylenol and they're that consortium is called fan cure
• 40:40
  which is more related on dedicated female diseases like a
• 40:46
  neomatriosa etcetera. And then I was talking with you
• 40:50
  did about it. And then I, I told about her
• 40:53
  that I, I did an, an effort to, to get to basically in the
• 40:59
  Netherlands, people aware that we don't, there's some little
• 41:03
  money for, for femtech startups and there's really almost zero
• 41:08
  money. And that's basically, I called
• 41:10
  it market failure. Femtech is first very much under
• 41:15
  researched. Then there are a lot of female
• 41:18
  founders which are really on the front.
• 41:20
  We can I think we come back to that later.
• 41:22
  And then it's a lot about diagnostics because there's so
• 41:25
  much unknown still in Women's Health.
• 41:27
  Any of it goes, it is diagnosed after 10 years.
• 41:30
  So we really need to of course something that will diagnose it
• 41:33
  within a month or so or shorter. So, so these are three elements
• 41:39
  that makes Femtech really, really a market failure.
• 41:42
  So I was lobbying for that in the Netherlands.
• 41:45
  So at Economic Affairs and other investor now and other people.
• 41:48
  So shouldn't we have a dedicated fund on Women's Health?
• 41:54
  And then to support it, I made a LinkedIn post with somebody else
• 41:58
  there who a doctor from the UK doctor direct core who helped
• 42:03
  me. So we made a very nice LinkedIn
• 42:05
  poster with all the, the scientific or with all the, the,
• 42:09
  the data. So it was not just it's on the
• 42:12
  front and it's market failure, but he really spent an effort to
• 42:15
  get all the data I had all the publications, the McKinsey
• 42:18
  reports, etcetera, etcetera. And the post was very well
• 42:21
  received. So I told you this about that
• 42:23
  post. And then she said, well, this is
• 42:25
  very nice, complementary to the Luncet publication and writing.
• 42:31
  Do you want to become called? Sort of part accidental parts.
• 42:38
  Well. I.
• 42:39
  Think all all the pieces. Yeah, exactly.
• 42:42
  All the pieces of all the all the pieces of the puzzle came
• 42:44
  together. So So he asked me to become Co
• 42:49
  altar and then for the first time I didn't say no, I said
• 42:52
  yes. Yeah, cool.
• 42:54
  So my very first publication is in the Lancets.
• 42:58
  OK, so it's about about Women's Health as a societal imperative.
• 43:03
  Can you tell a bit about findings?
• 43:06
  But I think I already mentioned them a little bit in my answer.
• 43:09
  So Women's Health is very much under researched.
• 43:13
  It's very much underfunded. That's it.
• 43:16
  That's one of the things I always use which which is easy
• 43:20
  to remember. There's three times more money
• 43:24
  spent on solving erection problems than Women's Health
• 43:28
  issues worldwide. Combined.
• 43:30
  Yeah, combined. A1 cure at the men's side is 3
• 43:35
  times more invested than the. Entire space of Women's Health
• 43:41
  that's not in The Lancet paper, but it's just, but it's more
• 43:43
  easy to understand, to remember. So it's very much unaffirmed.
• 43:47
  It is very much if you look at them into solutions for, for
• 43:51
  instance for Fantech that are usually female CE OS, female
• 43:55
  CEOs in the Netherlands get, although their number of female
• 44:00
  CEOs is growing, they get less funding compared to a couple of
• 44:03
  years ago. And then I usually ask the
• 44:06
  question there, John, how much percentage of PC money do you
• 44:10
  think went this year into female CEOs?
• 44:16
  For 2026 I wouldn't know, but 2025 it should be around to one
• 44:21
  1 1/2% more. Well, usually male answer, well
• 44:26
  if you answer a question like that it's probably less than 15%
• 44:30
  and then I say lower and then they do 10 and then say lower
• 44:32
  and then they 1 and I say lower it's oh point 7%.
• 44:36
  Yeah, it's point, yeah. It's incredible.
• 44:39
  And so, so the combination, so the paper is about underfunding
• 44:45
  also in the research, but also in of course in, in companies.
• 44:49
  And then it's of course, it's also about the impact of that.
• 44:52
  So there is a huge economic impact of that.
• 44:55
  So in the McKinsey report, it's also said that it's, it's, it's
• 44:58
  billions of, of, of, of EUR or dollars that we're losing
• 45:04
  economically as a society because not addressing these
• 45:07
  problems. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:09
  One trillion 1 trillion U.S. dollar per year.
• 45:13
  Exactly. Which is huge.
• 45:16
  It's huge. So that is what the paper is
• 45:19
  about and what is really nice of course is that is, and to be
• 45:23
  honest, I did underestimate it a little bit, is the effect of a
• 45:26
  Lancet paper is incredible. We will cut reactions from
• 45:31
  people that are I'd done so many other things, they never reacted
• 45:35
  on that. But of course, for a specific
• 45:37
  audience, A Lancet paper is more valued than a McKinsey report
• 45:42
  for. Instance, yeah, McKinsey focuses
• 45:45
  more on the business side also and but now with the launch that
• 45:49
  you go into the academic part. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:53
  But but for me, there was not for me an effort to be honest
• 45:57
  for most people. And Women's Health.
• 45:58
  There's nothing new in that paper, no.
• 46:01
  No, but that's that's usually the case if if people are trying
• 46:08
  to to sell something to people who haven't been paying
• 46:11
  attention. Exactly.
• 46:13
  So the the the the choir knows what the music is, it's just the
• 46:18
  the people on the other side who are listening will need to
• 46:21
  start. But it's but it's incredible
• 46:25
  because it's Lancet Bay and especially, of course, there is
• 46:27
  a difference between male and female audience and because
• 46:31
  every, every female and say, well, I know this already for 10
• 46:35
  years. And so, so I really hope these
• 46:37
  people will contribute to also get the awareness, but not only
• 46:41
  only the awareness, but also the action and the money and more
• 46:45
  into male decision makers. Yeah.
• 46:48
  So let me ask you this question. It's not.
• 46:51
  We didn't discuss this upfront but I was wondering why should
• 46:55
  men care? And the reason I'm asking this,
• 46:57
  I was at a Women's Health event on on Tuesday and exactly this
• 47:03
  question was asked and I was wondering what your answer would
• 47:07
  be based on your experience. What is?
• 47:10
  Your answer I will answer your question but kind of refers to
• 47:14
  questions first. Yeah, sure.
• 47:16
  And the answer to me was a bit surprising.
• 47:18
  Like women regulate men to a large extent emotionally.
• 47:24
  So if a woman has bad health, that impacts men.
• 47:29
  If a woman has a bad, well, let's say a bad temper or a
• 47:33
  stressed, that impacts men because men get don't get taught
• 47:38
  to regulate themselves. Well, over time they learn, of
• 47:43
  course, but it's not something that we learn from our fathers.
• 47:50
  So we need the women in our lives to do, to help us do that.
• 47:55
  So that's why it's important also to, it's one of the reasons
• 47:59
  why it's important to care. And of course there's fairness,
• 48:02
  of course, there's, this is about half the population.
• 48:05
  Of course, there's, let's say the, the whole part about this
• 48:09
  is your sister, your girlfriend, your mother, your wife, your
• 48:16
  daughter. That comes in addition to it.
• 48:21
  But the the the part about emotional regulation, what to me
• 48:25
  was a bit I didn't that was new to, to me.
• 48:30
  So. Thank you.
• 48:31
  Thank you for your answer. This is into my view.
• 48:35
  This is really the key missing point.
• 48:37
  So, so also back to myself, I think last three years I have
• 48:42
  abdicated Women's Health, but I've done it in a way that that
• 48:46
  appeals to females. Well, I, I think the real, as I
• 48:49
  mentioned, the real missing link is in the Netherlands, 90% of
• 48:53
  all decisions are made by savior fingers, by the, the white
• 48:57
  males. And I think we've failed, or at
• 48:59
  least I've failed so far to get the proper arguments and the
• 49:03
  proper reasonable reasons to convince white males that make
• 49:09
  90% of the decision in the in the Netherlands to put money on
• 49:13
  Women's Health. Because that is was one of the
• 49:17
  one of the missing points. So realizing I realized that
• 49:21
  very much in December when there was a session organized by
• 49:24
  Fantafenell and I am Sophie von Dyke and and Michael Steinbach,
• 49:29
  they're doing a great job by the way, had to organize because
• 49:33
  that was also in there. There was nothing organized in
• 49:36
  or incentive. So they organized a conference.
• 49:40
  And then I was realizing that I really should change my
• 49:43
  communication and we should really change the communication
• 49:46
  around Women's Health. So not just as oh wow.
• 49:49
  And we females, we, we are behind in funding and we are
• 49:54
  going much more into and that's why I use AI for the account.
• 49:59
  We started offline on AI. So I'm everything I'm
• 50:02
  communicating right now on the topic.
• 50:04
  I asked your GDP how do I formulate this to convince white
• 50:09
  males on this so that learn that learn me that I should I should
• 50:15
  address it first on the economic benefits and because men are
• 50:19
  more tending towards what's in it for me make it a little bit
• 50:24
  more blunt. So, so I should make more clear
• 50:27
  the economic part I saw again, but it's that's also done
• 50:32
  already a lot, but it's not sticking.
• 50:35
  So there is a used business case, There is a used business
• 50:38
  opportunity. It's not a need.
• 50:39
  It's about 50% of the population.
• 50:41
  All males know that already right now, but still they don't
• 50:46
  invest in it. And so, so that's not enough.
• 50:48
  But you should always start with that.
• 50:50
  Then you should address exactly what you're saying.
• 50:53
  And so it's also affecting your mother, your wife, your
• 50:58
  daughters. That's a very powerful one.
• 51:00
  You're it's affecting your daughters, your grandchildren,
• 51:03
  etcetera. So there we should much better
• 51:05
  communicate to male decision makers how it affects their
• 51:10
  families and their lives. And then I think the last point,
• 51:14
  and I'm very happy you did address that, but it also
• 51:16
  affects your personal quality of life in the way your own wife,
• 51:21
  your own life is working. And, and to be honest, I'm I'm
• 51:25
  adding one extra thing recently. Better sex life for everybody.
• 51:31
  True. Yeah, if you know better how the
• 51:35
  older person enjoys sex. No, but it's even more simple.
• 51:40
  What do you think if you have 10 years and your mitosis before
• 51:43
  it? Started that in that too.
• 51:46
  Yeah. That's because then it's sex is
• 51:49
  really painful. Exactly.
• 51:51
  So it's really and and and that's combined with the other
• 51:55
  small factor already mentioned there.
• 51:56
  So male decision maker, they decide to spend 3 times more
• 52:01
  money on erection problems than a Women's Health.
• 52:04
  I think they should shift that little bits.
• 52:08
  Yeah. Because maybe it's not about
• 52:10
  erection per SE. It's more about, yeah.
• 52:14
  Exactly exactly. So actually I'm I'm using this
• 52:17
  post cast to for the first time at this argument, they come, I'm
• 52:22
  testing this argument. I'm using this podcast to test
• 52:25
  this argument with you and with the audience.
• 52:27
  Yeah, Well, thanks for that. It's well received, at least at
• 52:33
  at my end. So I, I and yes, I, I think it's
• 52:36
  important also to understand, let's say women's sexuality a
• 52:41
  lot better because it's just, yeah, it has all kinds of
• 52:47
  benefits both on their own relationship side, but also on
• 52:51
  the yeah, on the health side. Yeah, but I think so far we've
• 52:55
  failed to bring these arguments properly across because again,
• 52:59
  all these arguments, there's no new facts.
• 53:01
  There's no new. And still, if you look into, if
• 53:05
  you look into a post for about Women's Health and you and you
• 53:09
  look into, there are hardly any males reacting on that post.
• 53:13
  True. I have to literally take people
• 53:18
  to to get them to do some sort of response on the if, if
• 53:24
  there's a post if I posted this morning on the on female health
• 53:28
  and then I take a few men in there who were also at the event
• 53:32
  by the way. So but then I get some response,
• 53:36
  but most also for the for the podcast, 70% are are females who
• 53:44
  are listening. So yeah, but it's it's a long
• 53:49
  way to go. Do you think it's we need that
• 53:54
  ally ship is part of what of the solutions we need?
• 53:58
  Definitely I have for myself. I'm really focusing 100% now on
• 54:04
  males. How do I get males into this
• 54:06
  boat? That's 100% my focus here.
• 54:09
  And it also has to do with language here because you I
• 54:12
  think you had a very nice podcast also with Help Me Tina,
• 54:17
  the person, the lady. Yeah, Tina Tin, she introduced
• 54:21
  the term Fantev. But to be honest, I think that
• 54:24
  that that wasn't good and nice. But to be honest, I now think we
• 54:29
  have to get rid of it because in the same conference, the same
• 54:34
  meeting in in December from from Phantasian Hall, there were only
• 54:38
  females and 1 male. There was only only one male
• 54:42
  CEO. We started company and then he
• 54:44
  said he didn't say it in public, but he said it in the during the
• 54:47
  drinks. He said.
• 54:48
  To be honest, I never used the term Phantas ring investors.
• 54:52
  Did he say why not? Because then he said the wrong
• 54:55
  books already. But what do you does he use
• 54:57
  instead? He he, he's, he's just
• 55:01
  mentioning the Ahmednet he's addressing, but he's not calling
• 55:04
  it an he's not putting it in a Fantech box because with all the
• 55:07
  male and esters he already out, they all have the prejudgment
• 55:11
  out. That's Anish added the useful
• 55:13
  field. Yeah.
• 55:14
  But it's, it's, I think that's, that's where at least the market
• 55:18
  failure is. We do consider it a niche, even
• 55:22
  though it's 50% of the population.
• 55:24
  Exactly. But if you want to be Jane
• 55:26
  stunting on short notice and you I'm OK to be a little bit
• 55:30
  opportunistic and not use the term.
• 55:32
  I'm not against the term. I don't understand me wrong, but
• 55:35
  but I'm I'm now at the point that I say I will use any
• 55:39
  communication in whatever way and use the HTTP and not use
• 55:42
  them whatever I need to do to convince the males.
• 55:45
  And if I don't have to use them, I don't use them.
• 55:49
  Because it's a current pre. Judgement, it's a current pre
• 55:52
  judgement so you can fight against the pre judgements.
• 55:55
  That is wrong. It's not a niche but we already
• 55:57
  doing that for many years so it doesn't help.
• 56:00
  It doesn't help fast enough into my view.
• 56:03
  I'm 64 dear John, so I have still 10.
• 56:06
  I have 10 years next to actively work on this so I need some more
• 56:10
  speeds. OK, let's speed up.
• 56:12
  Go to the Angel investing part if you were a career, because
• 56:18
  you're an Angel and you coach entrepreneurs and you do that
• 56:23
  combination on purpose. Why?
• 56:27
  Because there's only 7 open seven, a percent of all venture
• 56:31
  capital going to female entrepreneurs.
• 56:33
  So it's very, very hard to get to get investors on board.
• 56:38
  And especially the first investor is always very hard.
• 56:42
  So if there's one investor on board, it's always at all.
• 56:45
  Most people wait till others have said yes and then they join
• 56:50
  also. That's.
• 56:52
  Exactly exactly. So, so if, if I'm, if I meet a,
• 56:56
  a female CEO and I really think that she is.
• 57:00
  And of course I've learned in the past four years how to how
• 57:03
  to how to do that and how to do that also fast.
• 57:08
  And so I really think this is an unmet needs and the technology
• 57:11
  or whatever the solution is something that can be worldwide
• 57:14
  the solution. And then I only invest in female
• 57:17
  CEO. So it's if, but then I have
• 57:19
  another criteria that is female CEO should be coachable because
• 57:23
  usually they're doing it for the first time and there is a lot to
• 57:28
  learn. There is a lot to learn.
• 57:30
  I already told you that even when I did in Philips 3 times
• 57:34
  all cycle from developing a new products, the first time I had
• 57:38
  to do it in the startup company with the with the robots.
• 57:42
  It was also for me very hard because in a bigger organization
• 57:45
  how you have all kind of competence organization
• 57:48
  supports. But if you are, if you are CEO
• 57:51
  of a startup company, you're end responsible for everything.
• 57:55
  So there are many things you have to do that you perhaps not
• 57:58
  even know that you have to do it in future or that you know, but
• 58:02
  you haven't done it yourself and you have to do it all well and
• 58:05
  all properly. So you really need to be
• 58:07
  couchable. That's that's that's the key.
• 58:09
  Is that also because one of the things I learned recently is
• 58:14
  that that doing it not for the first time, but for the second
• 58:18
  time, or for the third time actually increases the chances
• 58:23
  of getting funding? Yeah, yeah.
• 58:26
  So bringing that as a coach and as a as an investor also I think
• 58:31
  helps. Yeah, sure.
• 58:32
  So I've done it multiple times. They're both in a big company,
• 58:36
  but also in a startup company. I've done it in two startup
• 58:40
  companies I worked myself on and now I'm already have a couple of
• 58:44
  a number of quite a portfolio of investments.
• 58:47
  So I'm not doing it myself, but I know of course, what are the
• 58:50
  main bottlenecks and what are the main issues.
• 58:53
  So, so I really found it valuable to do this coaching and
• 58:57
  then people has to be again, coachable and also there has to
• 58:59
  of course, be a little bit of click and between between me and
• 59:02
  the and the female founder. And I found it very and I found
• 59:07
  that this is a very good match in a very good situation.
• 59:10
  And then what I coach especially on also in the beginning is how
• 59:15
  they can leverage my Angel investments.
• 59:19
  And because I'm not, I'm not a billionaire, so, so of course my
• 59:23
  Angel investment money is limited.
• 59:25
  If they just burn it, it's gone. So I really, if you, if you use
• 59:30
  the first Angel investment or the first investment properly.
• 59:34
  And I already learned that 25 years ago when I was from
• 59:37
  Philips investing in startup companies.
• 59:39
  So I, I already started in the startup world, but from the
• 59:43
  corporate side, investing in two startup companies from Philips,
• 59:47
  I learned that you, it's really important to, to have a proper
• 59:51
  funding strategy and not just make a list, OK, I can do ABCDE
• 59:55
  now I have to start with A because then I can do 3B, then I
• 1:00:00
  could do 10 C, etcetera. So you really have to have a
• 1:00:03
  proper funding strategy to leverage my Angel investment,
• 1:00:08
  which is limited and have a huge flesh wheel or leverage effect
• 1:00:13
  on my Angel investment. And that's what I have to be
• 1:00:16
  coachable on that as well. Yeah.
• 1:00:18
  So what I'm also hearing you say is that they really do you then
• 1:00:23
  help them with that funding strategy also like putting in
• 1:00:27
  place like OK, this is how you maximize the what let's call it
• 1:00:32
  €100,000 that you get from here. And then I'm also so so four
• 1:00:39
  years ago when my lips was was salted the the preclinical
• 1:00:45
  imaging, I decided that I wanted to invest X amount of money back
• 1:00:48
  into it. I like the the UK, the US storm
• 1:00:52
  paying forwards. And so I would like to pay
• 1:00:54
  forwards to the life science and health ecosystem and especially
• 1:00:58
  into female, female CEOs. And then I decided to split the
• 1:01:03
  X amount of money that I wanted to pay forwards.
• 1:01:06
  Half of it I'm doing as an annual investor.
• 1:01:09
  The other half I'm doing for a Borsky fund.
• 1:01:11
  And I did choose Borsky fund also because they, the main aim
• 1:01:16
  is to support female founders and female CEO.
• 1:01:19
  So I'm in the Advisory Board of Borsky and next to that I'm
• 1:01:23
  building my own portfolio as an engine investor.
• 1:01:26
  OK, so you're you're playing chess on two boards, as we call
• 1:01:30
  it in touch. Yes, because I because I was not
• 1:01:34
  an experienced investor. So of course I want to also use
• 1:01:38
  the competence of an existing French capital fund which I
• 1:01:41
  choose Borsky which have their all due diligence and etcetera,
• 1:01:45
  the pipeline. And of course they have a whole
• 1:01:47
  staff and they have people that have much more experience than
• 1:01:50
  I. And the next to it I do also the
• 1:01:53
  Angel investment. And for the Angel investment, my
• 1:01:55
  criterion is really also to actively coach the founder.
• 1:02:00
  OK, Yeah, cool. Just going back to the funding
• 1:02:04
  strategy for a, for a dining bit, But how do you make, how do
• 1:02:08
  can founders maximize your money?
• 1:02:13
  What what do they need to do? What steps do they need to take?
• 1:02:17
  Well, they need to understand what are the different
• 1:02:19
  opportunities, of course. So, and for instance, usually
• 1:02:23
  they have talked to multiple people.
• 1:02:25
  And then if I say yes as the first Angel investor, others
• 1:02:29
  Angel investors also say yes. And that's, that's a very simple
• 1:02:33
  way. Also, they're often
• 1:02:35
  organizations, for instance, also the regional development
• 1:02:39
  company and organizations that you have to Co fund or there are
• 1:02:43
  grants that you need Co funding. So for instance, say you can go
• 1:02:47
  for for a European grant or for an health hold on grant, which
• 1:02:53
  which gives you, let's say 250K, but you have to have Co funding
• 1:02:59
  of 50K yourself. And so, so that is already a
• 1:03:02
  multiply a multiplication of factor of 5.
• 1:03:06
  And so, and if you do that properly and if you get with
• 1:03:09
  that money again certain milestones or certain inflection
• 1:03:13
  points as they're called an investment world, if you reach
• 1:03:16
  at inflection points, that's again and help to get the next
• 1:03:20
  level of funding and the next level of investors.
• 1:03:24
  So there is a quite a huge ecosystem in the Netherlands
• 1:03:29
  there with old and that's also what you have to learn.
• 1:03:31
  When I was first time CEO, I just make a list of all
• 1:03:34
  potential funders and then I spend a lot of time in funders
• 1:03:37
  we who never would fund in the face.
• 1:03:39
  I was still. So that's what you have to
• 1:03:41
  learn. And if you can coach people,
• 1:03:44
  then you, they save a lot of time in talking to the wrong
• 1:03:47
  people in the at the at the wrong moment, because it's a lot
• 1:03:50
  about timing. Funding is a lot about timing,
• 1:03:53
  proper timing, having the right inflection points for the right
• 1:03:57
  people because they funds also have their that's what I'll of
• 1:04:00
  course learned with Porsky funds also have the time and you can
• 1:04:03
  spend a lot of time into venture capital funds which is at the
• 1:04:07
  end of the funds time well. You get about this not useful.
• 1:04:12
  Then you get money for maybe two years.
• 1:04:13
  Exactly. And that and that are the kind
• 1:04:15
  of things first time CE OS of course don't know.
• 1:04:17
  No. And that, that, that is for sure
• 1:04:20
  knowledge that. But that also applies to men, I
• 1:04:24
  think. Sure.
• 1:04:26
  Or do you think that men are more savvy in that sense?
• 1:04:29
  No. Then of course, but again, I
• 1:04:31
  focus on females because they only get open 7% off OK, capital
• 1:04:36
  money and, and, and, and, and to be honest, in, in, in my domain,
• 1:04:40
  life science and health, I often get also requests for males if
• 1:04:43
  they want to, to have a meeting with them to, to, to how do you
• 1:04:46
  say that clung board met? If I, if I want to give my
• 1:04:49
  opinion, then I always say yes. So if if male approach me, hey,
• 1:04:54
  if I want to look into their proposition and give my feedback
• 1:04:57
  on it, I always say yes, But that's something else to invest
• 1:05:00
  in it then to invest in a company and to become the active
• 1:05:03
  coach. So I want to also looking at
• 1:05:07
  time, I want to talk a bit about the Dutch ecosystem because one,
• 1:05:13
  one of the things that I found out is that let's say we have a
• 1:05:17
  very good ecosystem in terms of education, like great
• 1:05:21
  universities, great use hospitals.
• 1:05:27
  Why is it important also to have start-ups building here in the
• 1:05:33
  Netherlands? Because right now what I see is
• 1:05:36
  that as soon as you grow a bit, even the Dutch government will
• 1:05:40
  say, OK, there's across the pond, there's the US, that's a
• 1:05:43
  bigger market, so you grow there.
• 1:05:46
  Why is it important to to keep that here?
• 1:05:48
  You think? Well, you're.
• 1:05:49
  Touching a big frustration to be honest, and also one thing I've
• 1:05:55
  been really spend a lot of time on when I was chair of the top
• 1:05:58
  sector, because I think indeed, as you said in the Netherlands,
• 1:06:02
  we are very creative at the Netherlands is a very creative
• 1:06:05
  field. We have excellent science, we
• 1:06:08
  have excellent universities. We have many, many, many good
• 1:06:11
  ideas. Then there is a lot of money to
• 1:06:15
  do a first experiment, to do a pilot, to do first, first
• 1:06:20
  whatever with one patient or with one hospital or one care
• 1:06:25
  organization. And then hey, we get a nice
• 1:06:27
  publication out of that. Or we get, we get a nice
• 1:06:30
  LinkedIn message or a nice ICT in health article.
• 1:06:37
  And then it stops because the Netherlands is very much,
• 1:06:40
  there's a very much incentive system in starting up your own,
• 1:06:45
  starting up test your own ideas. And, and there's also a lot of
• 1:06:49
  incentives to to fund that and the Dutch markets and which is a
• 1:06:55
  completely different thing, of course.
• 1:06:56
  And the Dutch market is very conservative.
• 1:06:59
  It's very conservative people and think, OK, well, yes, that
• 1:07:04
  works with hospital or caregiver a habit.
• 1:07:07
  My my patients are different. We are different and so proof.
• 1:07:12
  So, so I have a better idea myself.
• 1:07:14
  I'm going to investigate another idea and I got something for
• 1:07:17
  that and I get support from organization to do so or OK,
• 1:07:22
  it's fine. Give me your system for free.
• 1:07:24
  And if I have time, I will test that habit.
• 1:07:27
  It's not my highest priority. So, so we are very slow in the
• 1:07:31
  Netherlands in market adoption, very, very slow.
• 1:07:35
  And that's and then if you talk about biotech care, then you
• 1:07:38
  still have another problem with the slides of all sales.
• 1:07:41
  So a lot of medication that is already approved by the EMA and
• 1:07:46
  also by other countries, our Ministry of Economic Affairs and
• 1:07:50
  our whole organization is still at track, OK.
• 1:07:53
  But we are to to to see if it's really effective enough
• 1:07:56
  etcetera. So the adoption in the
• 1:07:59
  Netherlands for new lifetimes and health innovation is
• 1:08:03
  extremely slow and I really think that's the problem.
• 1:08:07
  So, and that's also why a lot of Dutch companies go abroad
• 1:08:13
  because that market is bigger, there's more funding, adoption
• 1:08:17
  rates are are faster, which is which is not what they want.
• 1:08:22
  So they have to do it because it's the only option to grow the
• 1:08:26
  company, but it's not what they want.
• 1:08:28
  Every Dutch company would like to scale up in the Netherlands
• 1:08:32
  1st. Every Dutch company, I really
• 1:08:34
  can't guarantee you because it's.
• 1:08:37
  Because just Dutch market have the skill though, or even the
• 1:08:40
  European market because my experience and one of the
• 1:08:43
  reasons I touch on this is that I heard Constantine say
• 1:08:48
  literally go to the US because that's one market.
• 1:08:54
  Once you go to the, the FDA and you get FDA approved, you're in,
• 1:08:59
  in 200 something million people market.
• 1:09:04
  Whereas in Europe, it's like you have to hope from one country to
• 1:09:08
  the next. So to your point, a, my the the
• 1:09:11
  European version of the FDA approves your medication and
• 1:09:16
  then the Ministry of Economic Affairs starts to study if this
• 1:09:20
  is really effective, yes or no. Yeah, of course Constantine is
• 1:09:25
  right in terms added that he was the biggest market, but I'm
• 1:09:29
  talking about. So I think ideal if I may, may,
• 1:09:32
  may talk, if I may speak for for a lot of companies, I know they
• 1:09:36
  want to go they want to to go to the Dutch market 1st and then as
• 1:09:41
  the next markets and they either go to Germany or to the US or to
• 1:09:46
  where. So, but everybody wants to serve
• 1:09:49
  the, the the Dutch market first because of several reasons.
• 1:09:53
  They're always buck in in your system, right?
• 1:09:56
  That's so you, you want to be close by going to the US with
• 1:10:00
  your second products is a huge risk.
• 1:10:03
  And because you also have to outdo the FDA approval that
• 1:10:06
  costs a lot of money, that takes a lot of time.
• 1:10:08
  But if there's something wrong in the market, you have to
• 1:10:11
  immediately do your follow up. And then of course, it's much
• 1:10:14
  more easy to do that in the Dutch markets that if, if you
• 1:10:17
  can go to next hospital etcetera.
• 1:10:20
  So usually it's a Dutch companies are doing a first
• 1:10:25
  pilot in in the Netherlands again also Co funded by soman
• 1:10:29
  way of by helpful loans or by whatever.
• 1:10:33
  And then most of them really want to expand in the
• 1:10:36
  Netherlands 1st and to get also the validation and get the the
• 1:10:41
  number of of the experience and to to teach their people
• 1:10:45
  etcetera, etcetera. And then of course they want to
• 1:10:48
  go to either the US or whatever markets that is the preferred
• 1:10:53
  order. And to be honest, I think that
• 1:10:56
  should be the Dutch priority as well because we have a lot of
• 1:10:59
  programs in the nouns in our healthcare system and so which
• 1:11:04
  are addressed by this innovation.
• 1:11:06
  So, so I always say that the Dutch that the home markets is,
• 1:11:11
  is the the key bridge between the economic benefits of
• 1:11:16
  stimulating innovation because of course at the end the money
• 1:11:19
  will be earned worldwide and in in my sector you have to address
• 1:11:23
  that worldwide market. So to become economic profitable
• 1:11:28
  and to to get people working etcetera and get money backfired
• 1:11:34
  tax payment etcetera. So the economic benefits of
• 1:11:37
  innovation in life science and health is of course, to address
• 1:11:40
  the worldwide markets, but to do that properly and with and de
• 1:11:43
  risk it in the Netherlands is the best route to go.
• 1:11:47
  And at the same time, with the risk in it, you are you are you
• 1:11:51
  can help solving the, the, the the challenges in the in in the
• 1:11:55
  Deutsche car system. And and there I really think
• 1:11:58
  we're missing we're missing the point.
• 1:12:00
  So we're saying, yeah, of course, of course, Constantine
• 1:12:02
  is right. I know all well, I really think
• 1:12:06
  I'm not, I'm not exaggerating. All Dutch entrepreneurs want
• 1:12:11
  also to address the problems in the Dutch market, not only
• 1:12:15
  because it's de risking, but it's also with their home base.
• 1:12:18
  They want to help solving the problems in the Dutch market.
• 1:12:22
  Yeah. And they all say, well I'm Co
• 1:12:24
  funded by that money. I made use of the Health Holland
• 1:12:27
  money, I made use of this and this.
• 1:12:30
  I also want to contribute to addressing the challenges of the
• 1:12:36
  Dutch. Society, Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  So I think that thing on the podcast issue already alluded
• 1:12:41
  to, and one of the things that stayed with me is that she says,
• 1:12:47
  well, the current climate in the US offers a huge possibility for
• 1:12:52
  Europe, and with that also the Netherlands to become, let's
• 1:12:57
  say, the global centre of Women's Health.
• 1:13:02
  How do you see that? How do you see Hollande or the
• 1:13:06
  Netherlands play into that shift?
• 1:13:09
  Is that something that is that is not on the agenda or that is
• 1:13:12
  on the agenda now? Well, I, I agree with the
• 1:13:15
  opportunity. I'm not so sure if you look into
• 1:13:17
  since a year here we have a national strategy on Women's
• 1:13:20
  Health, which of course is a huge step and but to be honest
• 1:13:26
  also there it's still not funded.
• 1:13:29
  And so there is a nice strategy, Women's Health, but there's zero
• 1:13:33
  money attached to it. How do we get that that step?
• 1:13:37
  How do we make that step? What does it take?
• 1:13:39
  Well, you can you can address that in two different ways.
• 1:13:42
  So you can plea for a lot of extra money for Women's Health.
• 1:13:46
  So two years ago, Pia Dextra, who was for half a year the the
• 1:13:51
  interim Ministry of Health, she makes she's free to up 50
• 1:13:54
  million on 5 million, which is allocated or allocated by
• 1:13:59
  Solomon Bay to research into what they call a Kennesiata.
• 1:14:04
  So, so, so things that. Are really.
• 1:14:07
  Knowledge gap. So that's good and also part
• 1:14:09
  what's really cool is that part of that also is allocated to set
• 1:14:14
  up a Dutch network alliances on Women's Health because as I
• 1:14:19
  mentioned there it we didn't have a strategic public private
• 1:14:22
  partnership yet on Women's Health.
• 1:14:23
  So Women's Health is really bad organized in the Netherlands.
• 1:14:26
  It's really everywhere scattered around and there's a lot of
• 1:14:30
  things that are organized, but it's there's no, there was there
• 1:14:33
  is still not a real Women's Health network in the
• 1:14:37
  Netherlands. So part of the money that Fiat
• 1:14:39
  extra allocated 2,000,000 out of that is to make a Women's Health
• 1:14:43
  network. And I plead very much in that to
• 1:14:47
  also make to address the whole area of data sharing as an
• 1:14:51
  important topic. And so, and then I already also
• 1:14:54
  mentioned that it were out of the 32,000,000 last year that
• 1:14:58
  was allocated by health alone, 10 million went to two consorts
• 1:15:02
  here. So that's one way to solve solve
• 1:15:03
  it. But that's still 25,000,000.
• 1:15:06
  We are spending 110 billion per year on healthcare.
• 1:15:12
  So I'm also very much pleaing for that 110 billion of
• 1:15:16
  healthcare should be spent in the numbers we call a possum
• 1:15:20
  misorref, Possum misorref. So the proper care for every
• 1:15:25
  individual is also had to make to make a conscious and decision
• 1:15:32
  and awareness to spend 110 million properly and distinguish
• 1:15:39
  between gender in that or in diversity in general.
• 1:15:44
  And so if we are able to spend 110 billion per year in a proper
• 1:15:49
  way addressing in everybody who's doing something in care
• 1:15:53
  and spending 111 year out of this 110 billion.
• 1:15:57
  And there is an awareness that there is a difference between
• 1:16:00
  gender in in this and that's properly addressed.
• 1:16:04
  Of course it has a much bigger end impact.
• 1:16:06
  Yeah. So there are two ways in solving
• 1:16:09
  that. And then of course you need the
• 1:16:10
  organization. We don't have an ambassador on
• 1:16:13
  Women's Health in the Netherlands.
• 1:16:14
  The UK has had we don't have a a real action program yet.
• 1:16:18
  I know Minister of Health is working on that treasure menting
• 1:16:22
  together. We had this this marker and some
• 1:16:24
  of may are looking into making it now more an action plan out
• 1:16:27
  of this national strategy Women's Health.
• 1:16:30
  So there is a lot momentum. Yeah, OK.
• 1:16:33
  Well, that. That's but again all the names I
• 1:16:36
  mentioned were were females. Sir, did you notice?
• 1:16:40
  So there is a huge missing link still.
• 1:16:43
  So the, it's really starting to be key to get men on board
• 1:16:50
  because that will, yeah, I think that will definitely also open
• 1:16:56
  money tap, not only in investing, but also in, in terms
• 1:17:01
  of policy and freeing up money. And I had actually hoped that
• 1:17:05
  that having a Prime Minister like Opietin, who is not your
• 1:17:09
  standard seven, I think his guy would be a good start also
• 1:17:17
  because he's he's from the same party as Pia Dykes, I think.
• 1:17:22
  See, this is very I really would like to see the the the future
• 1:17:25
  positive. So I really hope that that this
• 1:17:28
  that that is going to be a real, real issue.
• 1:17:31
  If you're related to the other point I mentioned again about
• 1:17:34
  the upward 7% that goes to female founders in the agreement
• 1:17:38
  of our government. It was to my big surprise,
• 1:17:41
  positive surprise. There reason there's one line
• 1:17:44
  who's saying and it's brought in by Code Faye that in 2030, which
• 1:17:49
  is so tomorrow the 2030 is 4 years from now, female
• 1:17:55
  entrepreneurs in general should get equal funding and compared
• 1:18:01
  to their male colleagues. And if you talk about our
• 1:18:04
  horses, our whole economic sector and I, I learned from
• 1:18:10
  Codify that 38% of all entrepreneurs and inventions are
• 1:18:15
  females there. So that's also the butcher and
• 1:18:19
  and etcetera until the, the the the.
• 1:18:22
  The. Hi, tech startup there.
• 1:18:24
  So that's all of the board. So 38% of all CEOs and
• 1:18:28
  inventions are, are, are females and they had, they get about
• 1:18:33
  13.3% funding. So there it's only a factor of
• 1:18:38
  3. So in the startup world, it's
• 1:18:41
  much, much, much, much, much worse.
• 1:18:43
  So that's, that's but, but the good point and the positive
• 1:18:46
  point, and I agree, hopefully our new covenant also go Pieta
• 1:18:50
  will be really working on that, not only by words, but also by
• 1:18:54
  actions. And there is a, at least it's
• 1:18:57
  in, it's in agreement. So, so in the government
• 1:19:00
  agreement. So I really hope it will be
• 1:19:02
  addressed and I really want to to look at two in a positive
• 1:19:05
  way. Yeah, that sounds like a great
• 1:19:08
  place to move back to your golden standards because I was
• 1:19:11
  wondering. Yeah, so.
• 1:19:13
  It's almost my golden standard there.
• 1:19:15
  But no, no, no. But the, the, the, the the 7
• 1:19:17
  golden standard that you help fund and support and coach the
• 1:19:23
  CEO zone. If those are realized, what do
• 1:19:27
  you hope has changed in the in the innovation and in healthcare
• 1:19:33
  ecosystems? Of course, that I hope that
• 1:19:35
  patients worldwide benefit from that.
• 1:19:38
  That's my main aim at it. And then I also realized said
• 1:19:42
  that what I'm talking about is a lot about technology, which is
• 1:19:45
  still addressing the, the wealthy, the wealthy people.
• 1:19:50
  Because my, my, seven of my, the seven female founders, not only
• 1:19:55
  do Women's Health said it can also be other things.
• 1:19:57
  There's also one and one CEO talking about she's determining
• 1:20:01
  a new test for Parkinson's diseases, which is of course not
• 1:20:06
  not woman's health. It's much broader and, and so.
• 1:20:10
  I hope that people worldwide will benefit from them starting
• 1:20:14
  potentially, yeah, or probably with the more wealthy and
• 1:20:17
  people. But I'm also looking to some of
• 1:20:19
  the side of companies that especially addressing needs of
• 1:20:22
  Africa, which is not my real competence field, to be honest
• 1:20:26
  there. So I'm a little bit hesitant to
• 1:20:28
  do that, not because I don't think it's important, but to
• 1:20:31
  stop my competence. So I really hope that people
• 1:20:35
  world, I really want to impact quality of life of people
• 1:20:38
  worldwide. That's my ambition.
• 1:20:41
  Yeah. And so that's ultimately the
• 1:20:43
  goal. Yeah, with and that also what
• 1:20:47
  you hope has changed once those 7 gold standards are there.
• 1:20:52
  Yeah. And in introduction do that, I
• 1:20:53
  hope our ecosystem will be more gender balanced because there's
• 1:20:58
  such a huge, huge. When I started in Delft at the
• 1:21:03
  university, I was already member of the Emancipati at that point
• 1:21:08
  of time. And to be honest, I really
• 1:21:10
  thought in 40 years from now and this is not is not necessary
• 1:21:15
  anymore. I was so naive.
• 1:21:17
  Yeah, but I think many people at the time thought that.
• 1:21:21
  Yeah. And I hope, I think, I hope no,
• 1:21:26
  I think many people currently think that about female health.
• 1:21:30
  And I hope it's it is really becoming true situation that we
• 1:21:36
  take the health care of everyone seriously, not just the male
• 1:21:41
  part of it. Yeah.
• 1:21:43
  So I also hope that female founder female or ecosystem is,
• 1:21:48
  is more balanced and not only because again because of the
• 1:21:52
  females, but because of the whole society and we all, it's
• 1:21:55
  again scientifically proven that balanced teams have a better
• 1:21:59
  outcome. It's a huge, huge unused
• 1:22:04
  potential for society. Also in terms of talent, indeed.
• 1:22:09
  Exactly, exactly. It's a huge, huge unserved
• 1:22:13
  potential and then in terms of Women's Health perhaps, and
• 1:22:16
  that's I really hope that I think also myself, I'm still
• 1:22:22
  very much unconscious and unconscious incapable of that in
• 1:22:27
  Dutch. All the best on the clan.
• 1:22:30
  Every time I dig into something of Women's Health, I'm first
• 1:22:34
  surprised her often that I can't believe this, I can't believe
• 1:22:38
  this and then I become angry. So, so and also to put it on
• 1:22:41
  myself, I worked 11 years for cardiovascular in in Phillips.
• 1:22:46
  And then of course I looked into the geometry has attitude suits
• 1:22:50
  long male and short females. But in that point of time, I
• 1:22:54
  never thought about it that the the vessels of a female would be
• 1:22:58
  different than the vessels of a male.
• 1:22:59
  And those things were were starting to and.
• 1:23:03
  They are and they are and we know now they are so so.
• 1:23:06
  But there's still there'll be still so much unconscious,
• 1:23:12
  unknown or incapable or whatever.
• 1:23:14
  You put it properly in English. I like to do 2 word almost on
• 1:23:18
  the crown. So I really hope in if this
• 1:23:20
  golden standard on the markets, we are at least the best Omicron
• 1:23:26
  or even better the Omous Bakron. That sounds like a great place
• 1:23:30
  to close. Final question from my side.
• 1:23:33
  I'm building an app that connects investors and female
• 1:23:37
  founders and the aim is to close funding gap because we just
• 1:23:42
  discussed a .7% which is ridiculously low.
• 1:23:49
  What would be your advice to ensure that we have a high
• 1:23:53
  adoption rate among female founders and investors for this
• 1:23:57
  app? My advice would be to connect as
• 1:24:00
  possible into organizations that are already there.
• 1:24:03
  So don't start just your own platform and try to connect to
• 1:24:07
  so so for I already mentioned stem that and now and make sure
• 1:24:11
  they know and they use your platform investor.
• 1:24:14
  Now make sure they use there is a platform of women, women in
• 1:24:21
  impact investment and so so my suggestion is connect as
• 1:24:26
  possible into platforms that are there already there will be
• 1:24:30
  alliances with itself funded by Solomon may make sure your
• 1:24:35
  platform is known and connected into these worlds.
• 1:24:38
  And I'm working on the Femtech NL part for sure, because I'm
• 1:24:43
  talking to Sophie to have her on the podcast.
• 1:24:45
  So, and then also later to, to collaborate and to see if we can
• 1:24:51
  indeed collaborate on the, on the sending app.
• 1:24:56
  So Carmen fulfils them. Thank you very much also for
• 1:25:01
  making all the time that you made for this interview.
• 1:25:05
  Really appreciate it. If people want to learn more
• 1:25:08
  about you, about the work you're doing, or connect with you,
• 1:25:12
  where can they go? I think the best way is to try
• 1:25:16
  LinkedIn, although I must admit that I have something struggling
• 1:25:20
  since this year. I don't have a secretary
• 1:25:22
  anymore, so I have to organize my own agenda and I'm getting
• 1:25:27
  this kind of request to connect or whatever via mails, via
• 1:25:31
  LinkedIn, via WhatsApp. I'm a little struggling to get
• 1:25:35
  everything properly organized into one agenda, but the best
• 1:25:38
  way is LinkedIn. Cool.
• 1:25:40
  And we'll include that thing in the show notes.
• 1:25:43
  So Carmen Volvilstein, thank you very much again for your time,
• 1:25:47
  for your knowledge, for your wisdom.
• 1:25:50
  Really appreciated this conversation.
• 1:25:53
  And listeners, thank you very much for listening.
• 1:25:56
  And until the next episode, as always, keep being awesome.
• 1:26:11
  Well, that's it. Thank you for listening to
• 1:26:13
  episode 151 of Women Disrupting Tech titled Building the Next 7
• 1:26:18
  Gold Standards in Woman's Health with Carmen Von Thielson.
• 1:26:23
  Carmen, and I hope that you found our conversation as
• 1:26:26
  insightful and inspiring as we intended it to be.
• 1:26:29
  And if you have any questions for Carmen, please leave them in
• 1:26:33
  the comments on Spotify, YouTube, and or Apple Podcasts.
• 1:26:37
  I do read all the comments and I'll make sure you get an
• 1:26:40
  answer. If you want to connect with
• 1:26:43
  Carmen or read the article in the launch that we talked about,
• 1:26:47
  you can do so via the links in the show notes.
• 1:26:50
  As usual, you can find the show notes at Women Disrupting
• 1:26:53
  Tactile Book and on my Sub stack.
• 1:26:56
  Find the links in the caption. If you found this episode
• 1:27:00
  useful, I'd love for you to take a moment to rate and review the
• 1:27:03
  show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
• 1:27:07
  And if you don't follow us yet, hit the follow or subscribe
• 1:27:11
  button so you never miss a future episode.
• 1:27:14
  Once again, thank you for listening.
• 1:27:16
  I hope to see you in the next episode.
• 1:27:18
  And until then, as always, keep being awesome.