Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 4-6)

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Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 4-6) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to dive right back in
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: to the Joanna Schoberg deposition and pick up where we
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: left off with Laura Menninger taking over the questioning. So
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: they go back on the record at 1014 and things
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: kick back off. Menninger, hi. Answer from Schoberg, hello. Manager,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: we've never met before today, correct? Answer, correct. Manager, can
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about your current job? Answer, sure.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I just purchased a salon. I'm a salon owner. I'm
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a hairstylist. Manager, congratulations. Sjoberg, thank you. Manager, how long
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: have you been a hairstylist? Sjoberg, for 10 years. Manager,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and what did you do before that? Answer, I briefly
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: did massage in a spa for about a year and
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a half. And before that, I was a nanny. And
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: before that, I was in school. Manager, and I believe
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you said you studied psychology in school? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: did you graduate? Answer, yes. Manager, with a degree in psychology? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: where did you get training to be a massage therapist? Answer, redacted. Manager,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and when did you do that? Answer, that would have been,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I believe, in... Redacted. Manager, and how long did you
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: study there? Answer, I think it was a six-month program. Manager,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and you worked in a spa thereafter? Answer, I did. Manager,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and what was the name of the spa again? Redacted. Manager,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and are you married? Answer, no. Manager, do you have children? Answer, no. Manager,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and how old are you now? Answer, redacted. Manager, can
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you tell me about your first meeting with Glenn Maxwell? Answer, sure.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I was sitting on a bench. Redacted, redacted. She approached me.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I was getting ready to go to a class. It
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: was my junior year. Yes, it was my second semester
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: of my junior year, and she and another woman approached me.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: The other woman didn't speak, that I recall, and she
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: asked me about she had a house in Palm Beach,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: and she was looking for someone that she could hire
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to work at the house, where she could post that
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: she needed help. She then asked me if I knew anyone,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and I didn't know who she was. I didn't want
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to take the responsibility of finding someone to work for.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And so I said, sorry, I don't. And then she said, well,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: maybe what about you? And I was at a point
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: in my life I was super spontaneous and willing to
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: skip school. So she said, come to my house, come
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: in my car and check it out. And so I did. Manager, okay,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: so for those of you, of us, who don't know,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: is this like a college campus, like a traditional college campus,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: or is it in a city setting? Answer, it's in
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a city setting. I mean, Palm Beach is not a
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: big city, so it's on the intracostal, and there was
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: a big grassy area that was surrounded by buildings, so
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: she was inside of the campus. Manager, and she was
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: looking for a bulletin board where she could post a job? Answer,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: something like that, yes. Manager, did she have any kind
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: of flyers? Answer, not that I recall. Manager, but that's
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: what she asked you, for directions to a bulletin board
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: where she could post a job? Answer, yes. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like you guys got into a conversation.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Is that fair? Answer, yes. Manager, can you describe Glenn
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Maxwell's personality? Answer, well, I instantly picked up on the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: fact that she was British. She had on, like, workout clothes.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I believe she was wearing all black. And she, I mean,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: she was a little snarky, but I felt comfortable enough
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: to get in the car with her. Manager, and it
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: sounds like you had contact with her over the next
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: several years. Is that fair? Answer, yes. Manager, and did
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: you get to know more about her personality over those
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: five years, four or five years? Answer, yes. Manager, and
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: can you describe for me how you observed her personality
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to be? answer. Sure. She definitely had a great sense
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: of humor. She loved making jokes. I mean, in a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: very British way. I don't remember her ever laughing, but
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: she was funny. And I remember just thinking she the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: first weekend that we flew to the Virgin Islands, she
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: flew the helicopter from St. wherever we were to little St.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Jeff or whatever the name of the island was. And
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I just thought, wow, who is this woman? And that
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: was all part of the facade, folks. Having Maxwell be
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: who she was was just a gigantic part of what
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Epstein had going on. And if she wasn't that kind
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: of socialite, that kind of woman that could get people comfortable,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: this operation would have never worked as well as it did. Manager,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: would you say that you respected her? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: when you ended up getting in the car with her
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: and this other woman and going back to the house,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: who was driving the car? Answer, she was driving. Manager,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: and where did she take you? Answer, she took me
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: to the house in Palm Beach. And can you describe
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the house in Palm Beach? Answer, sure. It's at the
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: end of El Brío Way on the Intracoastal. The house
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was either white or pink. It was pink at one time.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: It may have ever been painted. It was nothing fancy.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: It was large. It was like a beach house. Manager,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: and when you got there, do you remember meeting other
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: people while you were there that first time? Answer, I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: remember other people being in the home. I don't really
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: remember who was there. Manager, do you remember meeting like
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a butler or... Answer, potentially a chef, someone in the kitchen,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: maybe a house manager, yeah. Manager, what was your impression
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of this other woman that was with Ms. Maxwell at
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the time? Answer, zero. She left zero impression on me. Manager, age, height,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: hair color, nothing. Answer, I want to say she was brunette,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: age 20s, yeah. Manager, and you were going for the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: purpose of checking out, potentially working for this job? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like you met Jeffrey Epstein that first
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: time that you did go to the house, right? McCauley, objection. Answer,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I believe I either met him that time or the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: next time, I can't recall. Manager, okay, and tell me
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: about your first meeting with him. Answer, sure, I met him.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I believe it was in the hallway right beside the kitchen.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: There was a hallway. It was actually more like a room,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: a pantry type of room. That's where all the pieces
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: of paper with the phone messages would lay. And there
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: she's talking about the notepads that we've talked about at
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: length here during the depositions. And I remember sitting on
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: the counter and speaking with him, and he was in
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: a bathrobe, and he spoke with me about being in
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: college and studying psychology. Manager, And did you form an
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: opinion of him in that first meeting? Answer, I, yeah.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I believe that he was smart, he was personable, and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: could speak to anyone. Manager, did he give off any
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: sexual vibes in that first meeting? Answer, no. Manager, and
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: where was Ghislaine when you were speaking with Mr. Epstein? Answer,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. Manager, do you recall going to a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: second floor of the home during that first meeting? Answer,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. Ghislaine said at one point, You might
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: get a massage today. That was, sorry, that was the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: second time when I was in the home working. And
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was crazy that I would get
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: a massage while I was working. But it did not
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: end up happening because the masseuse could not stay. Manager,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: do you know who the masseuse was who could not stay? Answer, no. Manager,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: but that didn't happen on the first meeting. You believe
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: that it was the second meeting. Answer, yes. That was
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: when I was there to work. Manager, how long, how
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: long did the first trip to the house end? Answer,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: she gave me her phone number and she took my
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: phone number and she took me back to school. Manager,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: and you were full-time at school at the time? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and how many classes were you taking, if you remember? Answer,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: probably four or five. Manager, how did you, how long
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: was it before you heard from Ms. Maxwell again? Answer,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: within probably three days. Manager, and how did she contact you? Answer,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: she called me on my, at the time, I had
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a cell phone. It could have been on my cell phone.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: It could have been on my house phone. We had
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: a house phone back then. Manager, I remember. Where were
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: you living at the time? Answer, I was in an
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: apartment in West Palm Beach. Manager, and did you have
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: a roommate or with family? Answer, I had a roommate. Manager,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: so when Ms. Maxwell called you on whatever phone it was,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: do you remember what she said? Answer, yeah. She said,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: do you want to come over and work on Sunday? Manager,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and what did you say? Answer, I said sure. Manager,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and did you? Answer, I did. Manager, how did you
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: get there? Answer, that I don't recall, because I did
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: not have a car. Manager, did you? To this, uh,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Schoberg interrupts. I think my roommate dropped me off, honestly.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I can remember what I was wearing. You do, Manager asks.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I do, she answers. Manager, what were you wearing? Answer,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I had, uh, I still have the shirt. It's an
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: old weathered blue North Carolina Tech Tar Heel shirt. Manager,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: because you, did Ms. Maxwell, explain to you what you
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: would be doing on that Sunday when you came to
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: work or was that part of the prior conversation? McCauley, objection. Schoberg,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: about what I was wearing? Manager, no, about what you
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: were going to do at work. Answer, she explained that
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: she just wanted someone to help out around the house,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: answering phones, you know, grabbing drinks if someone wanted a drink.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Running errands. Manager, and so you dressed appropriate to what
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you believed? She interrupts her here, meaning, uh, Schoberg, I
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: did not know how to dress properly, apparently. I should
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: not have worn that, but I was in college. Did
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: anyone say anything to you? No. So when you got there,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: what happened? This is your second time to the house,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: but your first time working, right? Yes. I was probably
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: introduced to a few people that were there. I mean,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I was there for several hours. Do I recall every minute? No.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I just recall when I would actually have to go
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to work, answer the phone, pour some drinks for people,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: just water, they didn't drink alcohol, and run errands. There
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: are a few errands that I run. Manager, you described
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: those errands earlier? Answer, I did, in her car. Manager,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: you used her car? Answer, yes. Manager, what kind of
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: car was it? Answer, it was a Mercedes convertible. Manager,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: did anyone go with you? Answer, no. Manager, you described
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a shopping trip. Was that in the same car? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: was that a separate trip from when you went to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: run errands? Answer, yes. That's when Ghislaine went with me
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and she drove. Manager, okay, so you ran errands, came
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: back more than once. Answer, twice. And then, you went
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: on a shopping trip. Answer, yes. Manager, during the time
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: you were at the home, was there anything that made
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you suspicious? Answer, no. Manager or Leary? Answer, no. Manager,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that there may have been some discussion of
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: a massage. Do you recall that discussion? Answer, I had
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: never had a massage before, so she just said there
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: was a massage therapist coming and I may get one. Manager,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: did she say who it was? Answer, no. Meninger, so
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: when you went shopping on this trip, you said Ghislaine
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: drove the car and you went with her. Was anyone
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: else there? Answer, no. Meninger, and where did you all go? Answer,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: we went to Worth Avenue in Palm Beach, but because
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: it was Sunday, the stores were closed. So from there,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: we went to, I believe it was Palm Beach Daily News,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: which was like a little bookstore, and I remember her
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: purchasing reading glasses for Jeffrey and some magazines. Meninger, Were
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: those things for the home? Answer, yes, manager. And earlier
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: on your errands, you had been purchasing things for the
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: home or the office? Yes and yes, manager. Besides the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: printer cartridge in cartridge, do you remember anything else? Answer, well, yes,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: like they wanted specific magazines. I don't know if it
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: was like Scientific American or something to that effect. It
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: wasn't like Playboy. Manager, okay. Did you ever answer phones? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: when did you answer phones? Answer, that day. Manager, do
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you remember anything notable about the phone calls? Answer, I
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: just remember I always had to say, he's unavailable. Can
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I take a message? Manager, and where did you take
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: a message? Answer, on a little notepad next to the phone. Manager,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: do you recall any small children calling the house that day? Answer, no. Manager,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: were you speaking to anyone about their school experience or
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: anything like that? Answer, no. Manager, did you take any
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: messages for famous people? Answer, they could have been famous
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and I would have been clueless. Manager, did you take
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: messages at any other point during the time that you
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: worked for Jeffrey? Answer, no. Manager, and you said you
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: remember at the end of the day being paid by Ghislaine? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and you were paid for doing errands and answering phones
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and whatever else you did. Answer, yes. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: did you do anything else that day in terms of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: errands or things around the house that you remember? Answer,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: not that I recall. Manager, did you come back to
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: answer phones and do errands any other day? Answer, no. Manager,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that was the only day you did it. Answer, yes.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right there.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All of the information that goes
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're picking up where we left off
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: with a Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's dive right back in. Manager,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: all right. Tell me the second time, how long was
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: it before you got another sort of contact from anybody
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: at the home? Answer, okay, well, after that, I remember
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: actually that day of working, I sat with Ghislaine outside
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: on this outside table on the patio by the pool.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I told her that I was getting ready to go
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: to Nicaragua for spring break on a mission trip. I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: remember her going, why would you ever go to Nicaragua?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: So I was going to be gone for the next
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: week for spring break. So she called after I returned
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and asked if I wanted to make $ 100 an hour
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: rubbing feet. Manager, was that the whole conversation? Answer, that
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: was pretty much it. I said, okay, sure, tell me when. Manager,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and you were excited about the prospect of rubbing feet
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: and making $ 100? Answer, I was actually with, while I
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: was on the trip in Nicaragua, I was rubbing feet.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I was massaging people, their feet. So it just seemed
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: kind of crazy. That it all happened at the same time. Manager,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: how was it rubbing feet? Answer, I guess I just
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: like doing it. I didn't know that I did, but
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I was massaging people's feet. Manager, were these strangers? Answer, no, no, no, no, no.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: They were, it was a group of us that went
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: on the trip. So we were all very close. Manager,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: what kind of trip was it? Answer, it was a, well,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a PBA. You had to do these things called workshop hours,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: which you had to do community service 40 hours each year.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And so that was the way to do them all.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: And you would go on these trips and help build
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: a school or feed children or do some sort of
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: something nice. Manager, nice. What other trips did you take
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: while you were there? Answer, I did a trip and
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: work with Habitat for Humanity in Baltimore. And then I
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: went back to Nicaragua the next year and did the
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: same thing. Manager, very nice. And you were there for
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a whole week? Answer, yes. Manager, all right. So you
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: got a call from Ghislaine after you returned? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: and that's when she asked you about feet? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and did she tell you when she would like you
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: to come over? Answer, it was either that night or
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the next day. Manager, and do you know how you
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: got there? Answer, no. Manager, do you know what you
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: were wearing? Answer, no, I don't remember. Manager, when you
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: got there, I think you said you don't remember if
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine was actually there the second time. Answer, I want
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to believe that she was there because she was my
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: main contact. and so I would assume that she was
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: probably at the home and greeted me. However, I do
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: not recall if she was there. Manager, it sounds like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you met Emmy Taylor. Answer, yes. Manager, how did you
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: meet Emmy Taylor? Answer, she was at the house the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: first day that I worked running errands, and I realized
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: she was also a personal assistant type of person. Manager,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: do you know who she worked for? Answer, she, well, Ghislaine.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: It appeared to me that she worked for Ghislaine. Ghislaine
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: sort of told her what to do and where to go. Manager,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: and I believe you mentioned she called her her slave? Answer,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: she did. It was in a joking way, but she said, yes,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: that's my slave. Manager, you did not see her in
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: any type of slavery situation? Answer, not any change or
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: anything of the sort, no. Manager, so tell me, what
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you remember about the second time you went? Answer, the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: third time? Ms. McCauley, objection. Manager, I'm sorry, you're right.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Third time. The second time you went to work, but
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the third time you were there. Answer, correct. So I
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: was escorted up to the bathroom, which is where 99%
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: of the massages happened, and Emmy Taylor was there with
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: me and Jeffrey. I don't remember the order, but Emmy
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: was on the table at one point. She took off
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: all of her clothes, got on the table. I remember thinking, okay,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: she's just going to strip naked and get on the table. Well,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: that's cool. We're cool. That's what we do. And Jeffrey
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: was showing me how to massage on her body. And
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: when I took my clothes off and got on the table,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and they then showed me what it felt like with
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the both of them. And then Jeffrey got on the
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: table and Emmy showed me how to massage. Manager, so
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine was not in the room? Answer, no. Managers, you
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: said that 99% of the massages took place in the bathrooms.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Did you see massages take place in other places of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: the house at all? Answer, did I see any? No,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: besides us maybe, hanging out on the couch and someone
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: massaging his foot, or me massaging his foot, but not
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: like on a table. Manager, so just casual foot rubbing
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: might happen elsewhere in the home, but not a full-blown,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: full-body massage? McCauley, objection. The witness answer is yes. Manager,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: did you see any full-blown, full-body massages out by the pool? Answer,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: not that I recall. Manager, and do you remember ever
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: giving any yourself? Answer, by the pool. Manager, out by
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the pool, yes. Answer, on a table. Manager, yes. You
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: said that you had subsequently been trained as a massage therapist, correct? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: would you describe it as a normal massage protocol for
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a person to be naked under a towel during a massage,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: a regular massage? Macaulay, objection. The witness, naked under a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: towel during a massage, the person getting massaged? Manager, yes. Answer, yeah. Manager,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and as a massage therapist, you're trained how to dress?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the person so that they're covered in the right places
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: correct answer yes manager so when you were being trained
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: by emmy and jeffrey on some massage techniques did anyone
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: say anything sexual during the conversation answer not that i
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: recall Manager, what was the mood like? Was it, you know, laughing? Answer, yes, comfortable. Manager,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and just to clarify, the people who were giving the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: massages at the various points in time were clothed while
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: they were doing that, correct? Ms. McCauley, objection. Manager, in
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: this period you just described with Emmy Taylor and Jeffrey
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: in a bathroom upstairs on your third visit to the home,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: people giving the massages had their clothes on, correct? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: all right. What was the next time you remember coming
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: to the house there? Answer, the next time was to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: do a massage, all by myself. Manager, okay, and how
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: did that one come about? Answer, hmm, someone must have
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: called me, but I don't remember who. Manager, and to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: whom did you give the massage on this next visit
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: to the house? Answer, Jeffrey. Manager, was Ghislaine present during
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that massage? Answer, no. Manager, did anything unusual occur during
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: that massage? Answer, after. Manager, what happened? After the massage. Answer,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: he asked me how well do I orgasm, and I
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: said I don't, I'm a virgin, and he was quite surprised. Manager,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: where were you when you were having this discussion? Answer,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: in the bathroom. Manager, were you clothed? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: was he clothed? Answer, I don't remember him being naked.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: He was probably either wrapped with a towel or in
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a bathrobe. Manager, were you caught off guard by this question? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: was that the first time anyone had said anything sexual
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to you during this? Answer, ever? Yes. Manager, did he
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: say anything else that you recall during that conversation? Answer,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, we had a little bit of a conversation
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: about it, but I don't recall specifically. Manager, and how
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: did that massage encounter end? Answer, normal. There was nothing
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I had to do, so just normal massage. Manager, did
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: he pay you? Answer, yes. Manager, how much did he
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: pay you? Answer, $ 200. Manager, how did he pay you? Answer, cash. Manager,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and where was the cash? Answer, I don't recall specifically.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It was either he brought it upstairs with him or
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it would have been down on his desk. Manager, and
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you had other massages that you gave
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: under similar circumstances in the next years, right? Answer, many, right. Manager,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: so recalling this particular one is not sticking out in
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: your mind? Answer, yes. Macaulay, objection. Manager, do you remember
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the next time after that? Answer, I don't. I mean,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: from there, it's just a blur of random invites to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: come over and do it. Massage was like, I would
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: see him maybe three days in a row, and then
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't see him for two months. It was an
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: irregular schedule. Manager, do you ever recall a time where
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: you came over every day for three weeks in a row? Answer, no. Manager,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: were you paid $ 200 per massage? Answer, yes. Manager, and
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: how long did the massage last? Answer, anywhere from 30
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: minutes to an hour and a half. Manager, did you
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: ever give a four-hour massage to him? Answer, good grief, no,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: not that I recall. Manager, have you ever given a
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: four-hour massage to anyone in your whole life? Answer, no,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I have not. Manager, tell me how the whole idea
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: of traveling to New York came up. Answer, I actually
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: was not home. They called my apartment, my roommate answered.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: When I got home, she said, you need to call
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein immediately. He wants to take you to New York,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: but they are leaving at four. And I was excited
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: because I had never been to New York. Manager, are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you from Redacted? Answer, I am. Manager, but you never
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: went to New York? Answer, just flying over it. Manager,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: when you said they called, do you know who called
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: your roommate? Answer, I don't know who called my roommate. Manager,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: is this sort of pre-trip to New York, period? Do
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: you recall discussing any of the particulars of your massage
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: with Jeffrey, with Ghislaine? Macaulay, objection. Manager, if that makes sense. Answer, no. Manager,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: so before you got this call, had anyone mentioned the
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: idea of traveling to you? Answer, no. Manager, did you
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: call Jeffrey immediately? Answer, I did. Manager, and what conversation
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: did you have with him? Answer, basically he said, I
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: want to take you to New York City. Can you
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: be here quickly? And I got to the house and
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: he said, do you have a passport? I said, no.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: He said, go get it. So I went back and
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: picked up my passport and went back to his house
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: before we went to the airport. Manager, and why did
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you need your passport? Answer, I was ready to find out.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I had no idea. Manager, this was the spontaneous phase? Answer, exactly. Manager,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: so you went and got your passport. You came back.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And then what happened? Answer. Then we went to the airport. Manager.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: And who is we? Answer. So I don't remember the
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: ride to the airport, but the people that I recall
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: being on the plane was Jeffrey, Ghislaine, Virginia, and I. Manager.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: And was the first time you met Virginia? Answer. I
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: believe it was that day. Manager. In your previous visits
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to the house, had you seen her there? Answer. Not
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that I recall. Manager. And what was your impression the
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: first day you met her? Answer, she seemed young and
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: blonde and cute. Manager, what was her personality like? Answer,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't recall her personality. Bubbly? Manager, did you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: see her in the plane or on the trip to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: New York engaged in any kind of affectionate or sexual
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: contact with Jeffrey? Answer, no. Manager with Ghislaine? Answer, no. Manager,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: how did it come to be that you were in
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: a casino in Atlantic City? Answer, we, as we were flying,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey said. why don't you go sit in the cockpit
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to check out the landing? So we were sitting there
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and the pilots told me to go back and tell
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: them that we can't land in New York and that
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: we were going to have to land in Atlantic City.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey said, great, we'll call up Trump and we'll go to,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I don't recall the name of the casino, but we'll
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: go to the casino. Manager, and what happened with the
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: ID issue? McCauley, objection. Schober goes on to answer, all
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I knew is that she was not going to be
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: allowed to gamble, and so I spent time with her.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: We were just walking around. I don't remember what we did,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: because either she didn't have an ID, or she was
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: too young. I don't remember specifically why. I just remember
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: that she could not gamble. Manager, okay, so you just
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: walked around with her in Atlantic City? Answer, uh-huh, in
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the casinos. We never left the casino. Manager, were you
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: disappointed that you couldn't gamble? Answer, no. Manager, when you
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: were walking around and talking to her, did you learn
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: anything about her? Answer, not that I recall. Manager, did
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: you have an impression about why she was on the trip? Answer,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: at that point, no. I was so new to the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: whole thing, I was just trying to figure out my
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: position and who everybody was. At that point, I had
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: no idea. I didn't know anything sexual was happening at all,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: so I just felt like she was just another visitor. Manager,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: did she tell you at that time that she had
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: been to New York with Jeffrey before? Answer, not that
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I recall. Manager, did she tell you anything about Ghislaine
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: during that walkabout? Answer, no. Manager, and then you all
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: traveled to New York on that same night? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: how long were you in New York for on that visit? Answer,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: it was maybe two nights. Manager, and where did you
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: sleep at night? Answer, I slept in one of the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: guest rooms at his townhouse at 71st Street. Manager, and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: did you stay in the same room as Virginia? Answer, no. Manager,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: do you know where she stayed? Answer, no. All right, folks,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up this episode right here, and
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: in the next episode on the topic, we'll pick up
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All of the information that goes
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to pick up where we
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: left off. with a Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's just
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: dive right back in and pick up where we left off. Manager,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and then when you got into Manhattan, how did it
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: come to be that you were doing some sightseeing? Answer, well,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: they knew that I had never been, so I believe
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey asked the driver and Demi just to drive me
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: around to see the Empire State Building. That's all I remember.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: It was late. It was dark. It wasn't long, maybe
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes.' Manager, when you got back to the house,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: what happened?'' Answer, I walked in the front door, and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine stuck her head over the grand staircase and asked
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: me to come upstairs into the living room.'' Manager, and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: can you describe the living room?'' Answer, oh, it was
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: very large and very formal, and Jeffrey and her and
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Virginia and Prince Andrew were there.'' Manager, and what were
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: they all doing when you came in?'' Answer, just socializing.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I don't remember them doing an activity. It was just
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: being together.' Manager, was anyone unclothed? Answer, no. Manager, was
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: this the same room where Jeffrey had a desk? Answer,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: it could have been, but I can't remember. Manager, did
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you go to New York more than one time? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: how many times did you go to New York? Answer,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: two times. Manager, this was the only time that you
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: met Prince Andrew in New York, though? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: when you came upstairs, where was Virginia sitting? Answer, I
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: don't remember. Manager. Do you remember what she was wearing? Answer. No. Manager.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: She was already there when you got back from sightseeing? Answer. Yes. Manager.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Tell me what happened with the caricature? Answer. Ghislaine asked
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: me to come to a closet. She just said, come
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: with me. We went to a closet and grabbed the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: puppet and the puppet of Prince Andrew. And I knew
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: it was Prince Andrew because I had recognized him as
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: a person. I didn't know who he was. And so
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: when I saw the tag that said Prince Andrew, then
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: it clicked. I'm like, that's who it is. And we
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: went down back down to the living room and she
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: brought it in. It was just funny because he thought
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: it was funny because it was of him. Menninger, tell
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: me how it came to be that there was a
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: picture taken. McCauley, objection. Schoberg, I just remember someone suggesting
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a photo and they told us to get on the
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: couch and so Andrew and Virginia sat on the couch
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: and they put the puppet, the puppet on her lap.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And so then I sat on Andrew's lap and I
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: believe on my own volition and they took the puppet's
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: hands and put it on Virginia's breast and so Andrew
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: put his on mine. Menninger, And this was done in
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: a joking manner? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, yes. Manager, do you
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: recall a photo being taken of that event? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you've never seen that photo? Answer, no. Manager, you don't
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: know whose camera it was? Answer, no. Manager, Virginia was
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: sitting on a couch next to Andrew, not in a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: big leather armchair? Answer, maybe. I'm just trying to remember
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: how I remember it. Manager, to the best of your recollection,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you went and sat on Andrew's lap, correct? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: on his knee? Answer, yes. Manager, and Virginia was not
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: sitting on his knee, correct? Answer, I don't recall. I
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: just remember, I was, she might have been on his
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: other knee, like Santa, I don't remember. Manager, after that,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: do you remember any other pieces of that social engagement? Answer, no. Manager,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: do you know where you went? Schoberg, from there, I
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: went to bed. Manager, were people drinking? Answer, no. Manager,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: did you hear Ghislaine Maxwell tell Virginia to do anything
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: while you were in that room? Answer, no. Manager, do
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: you recall what happened the next day in New York? Answer, bits.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was the day I went to Victoria's Secret.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I went and walked around by myself and I went
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: to a souvenir shop and got a mug or something.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: That's all I recall. Manager, did you go anywhere with Virginia? Answer,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, yes. We went to Phantom of the Opera. Manager,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: who else went? Answer, I think it was just she
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and I. I forgot about that. Thank you for that memory. Manager,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: it's my job. Anything else you remember about that day
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: in New York? Answer, no. Manager, you said you had
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: given a massage to Jeffrey while they were on their trip,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: or was it a subsequent trip? Answer, that trip. Manager,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and how did that come to be? Answer, either he
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: or somebody asked me to go and do it. Someone
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: showed me to the room, but I don't remember who
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: it was. Manager, can you describe that room? Answer, yes,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: it was a high ceiling, dark, red walls or dark
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: blue walls or dark blue carpeting or something. It had
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: a massage table set up in the middle, and there
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: was a large, I want to say like a 15-foot photo,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: either photo or a painting, of a naked girl. Manager,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: pornographic or artistic? Answer, no, no, I wouldn't say pornographic,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: more artistic. Manager, artistic. Was Ghislaine present during the massage? Answer, no. Manager,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: did something about that particular massage session stand out to you? Answer, yes.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: That was when I first was asked to squeeze and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: rub his nipples while he pleasured himself. Manager, and did
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: he say that's what he was going to do? Answer, he, yes.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: He was just very blunt about it. He said, rub
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: my nipples. I'm going to jerk off. I was like, no, done. Manager,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: and you walked out? Answer, I did. Manager, were there
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: any repercussions for you walking out? Answer, amazingly, no. Knowing
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: what I know now, I'm surprised I was ever called back.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: But no, I just stood my ground and walked out.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with that. Manager, do you know personally
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: whether anyone else has said that to him? Answer, no. Manager,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: did anyone ever tell you that they had been in
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a massage scenario and told them no? Answer, no. Manager,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: do you recall when in your trip the massage occurred? Answer, well,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: it was not the day we landed. It must have
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: been the next day that we were there. Manager, do
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: you remember anything else about Virginia from that trip other
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: than Prince Andrew thing and the Phantom of the Opera? Answer, well,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: we were getting ready to leave to go to the
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: airport and we were waiting. She and I sat on
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the steps in the foyer. I do remember just kind
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: of asking a few questions to try to understand her
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: role because at that point, Now I knew what he
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: wanted from me in the massage, but she did not
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: make it clear to me that she was participating in that,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: so I was prodding gently to see if there was
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: anything happening that shouldn't have been because I was getting
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the impression that she was. She told me she was 17. Manager,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: she told you she was 17? Answer, uh-huh. Manager, how
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: did that come up? Answer, I asked her. Manager, was
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: anyone else present during the conversation? Answer, no. Manager, you
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: mentioned in your earlier testimony that she seemed orphan-like. Answer, yes. Manager,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: but you said that was something you had said to Ms. McCauley, correct? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: that was not said at the time? Answer, right, no.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: At the time, I was getting an impression that she
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: did not have a family or had walked away from
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: her family. And it seemed to me, you know, they
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: had just sort of adopted her. Not as a child,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: but they would take care of her. Manager, did you
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: observe anyone speaking to her as a child, like, make
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: up your bed? Answer, no. Manager, did you observe whether
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: she was using drugs during that trip? Answer, no. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: did you ever observe her using drugs? Answer, not that
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I recall. Manager, did she ever tell you that she
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: was using Xanax? Answer, no. Manager, cocaine? Answer, no. Manager, ecstasy? Answer, no. Manager, heroin? Answer, no. Manager,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: when was the second trip you took to New York? Answer, later.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Maybe 2005. I don't know. I could look in the
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: flight record. Manager, that's all right. Answer, I don't remember exactly. Manager,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you just recall it being several years, so after? Answer, yes,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: several years later. Manager, and just so I'm clear, can
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: you just list for me the places you recall traveling
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: with Jeffrey? Answer, yes. The first trip was New York
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: and the Virgin Islands, and then not again until around 2005.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: We went to New Mexico and to New York City
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: and the Virgin Islands. Manager, so you were in New
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: York twice and the Virgin Islands twice and New Mexico once? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: anywhere else? Answer, no. Manager, were those primarily on the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: private planes? Answer, yes. Manager, you said you flew commercially
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: once to get back. Answer, yes. Manager, do you recall
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: any other commercial flights? Answer, he bought a couple of
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: flights for me when I wanted to go to New
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: York for personal reasons. One time, I went to New
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: York commercially, and I was there with friends, but I
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: did go over to his house while I was staying
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: in the city. Manager, and that's not the trip to
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: New York. Answer, no. Separate. Manager, would you characterize your
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: relationship with Jeffrey as friendly? Macaulay, objection. Witness, yes. Manager,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: if you asked him to buy you a ticket to
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: New York, that might be something that he would do. Answer,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I never asked him to do anything for me, but
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I told him I was interested in something and he
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: always offered. Manager, the second trip to New York, anything
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: memorable about that? The one, I'm sorry, the one that
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that was with Jeffrey. Answer, I do recall
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Nadia being there. While I massaged, she gave him a facial,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: but nothing sexual happened. Manager, and do you recall if
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine was part of that trip or not? Answer, I
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: remember her being in New Mexico. Manager, what do you
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: remember about her being in New Mexico? Answer, I remember
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: she took me to... When they were building the ranch,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: they had a little three-bedroom home, just like a prefab house.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: She took me over there, so we went for a
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: little walk. I remember she had two new puppies, named
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Max and Minnie, little Yorkies, and I want to say
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: that it was around Jeffrey's birthday when we were there,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: but nothing. There was no, like, celebration or cake with candles.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It was just another day. Manager, you said the Virgin
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Islands were a part of that second trip as well? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: and do you remember Ghislaine being part of the Virgin
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Islands the second time? Answer, yes. That's when she called,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: went to bed, and kissed us all on the head
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: and called us her children. Manager, who were the other
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: participants in that session? Answer, that's who. I don't recall
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: who was there. I want to say that Nadia was. Manager,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: but Virginia was not there? Answer, Virginia was not there. Manager,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: do you recall the point in time in which Virginia
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: went away? Answer, sort of. After the trip to New York,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I was given her phone number to call, and I
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: remember one time I tried to get a hold of her.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Her boyfriend answered, a boyfriend I would assume, and he
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: sounded like he was high, and I couldn't find out
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: where she was. And then from there, she was out
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: of the picture. Manager, do you recall how long after
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the New York trip that occurred? Answer, I would say
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it was probably within a month or two. Manager, did
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: she tell you she was working elsewhere? Answer, no. Manager,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: did you ask her? Answer, no. Manager, did you mention
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: that she was a waitress? Answer, no. Manager, and worked
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: at Taco Bell? Answer, uh-huh. Manager, did you speak to
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend or a boyfriend at any other time associated
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: with her? Answer, no. Manager, did you meet her boyfriend? Answer, no. Manager,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: her fiance? Answer, no. Macaulay, objection. Manager, when you were
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: on the plane with Jeffrey Epstein during these two trips,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: he was present on all of those flights? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: did you observe any sexual behavior happening on the plane? Answer, no.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: He told me a story of something that happened one time. Manager,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: did it involve Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer, no. Manager, did it
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: involve Virginia Roberts? Answer, no. Manager, and you didn't see anything? Answer, no. Manager,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: you did give massages to Ghislaine Maxwell, correct? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: on how many occasions? Answer, maybe somewhere between five and ten. Manager,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: was that over the course of the five years? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: was there some point during that five years where Ghislaine
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Maxwell was not around as much? Answer, yes. Manager, do
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: you recall when that was? Answer, in the middle. Manager,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: did you know why that might be? Answer, no. Manager,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: is that about the time that you started seeing Nadia
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: more frequently? Answer, yeah, I guess. She was probably in
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the picture more. Her and Sarah both had kind of
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: been around the most. Manager, did you observe Nadia or
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Sarah appearing to act like Jeffrey's girlfriend? Answer, Nadia, not Sarah. Manager,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: what did you observe? Answer, she was just very loving,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: kissing him. Manager, did you know how old she was? Answer,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. Manager, so you gave massages to Ghislaine
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: five or ten times. Was there anything unusual about those massages?
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And just to add here, Nadia Marcinkova, allegedly, was sold
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein when she was just a little girl.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: So that's a whole other story that at some point
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: is going to come out. Manager, you've been quoted in
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the press perhaps as saying that she wasn't very picky. Answer,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: about massage. Manager, about her massages. Answer, not like Jeffrey,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I guess. I mean, saying that meant that, you know,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I would do whatever I wanted to do in the massage.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Whereas Jeffrey was like, do my foot, do my leg.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: He would kind of narrate what he wanted. She just
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: wanted a massage. So if that makes sense. Manager, she
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: may have been naked under a towel. Answer, definitely. Manager,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: in a regular massage fashion. Macaulay, objection. Answer, yes. Actually,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: I do recall an instance where I was massaging her
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: and Jeffrey came into the room and he did something
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: sort of sexual to her, whether it was fondling her
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: or slapping her butt or something, and she brushed him
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: off like she was embarrassed. Manager, so she never asked
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you to touch her in a sexual manner, correct? Answer, no. Manager,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: and she did not rub her breasts on you, for example? Answer, no. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: did she demand that you perform oral sex on her? Answer, no. Manager,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: did she not demand that you undress during your massage? Answer, no. Manager,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: there was nothing from her that was sexual during the
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: massage that you gave her? McCauley, objection. And then Schoberg answers, correct. McCauley,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: do you recall when was the last time you gave
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: her a massage? Answer, I don't recall. All right, folks,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up that episode right here. And
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: in the next episode, we'll pick up where we left off.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.