Latest / Rusty's Garage / Russell Ingall (Part 2)

Transcript

Russell Ingall (Part 2) · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:20
G'day, it's Rusty here, all strapped in for part two of my podcast with Russell Engle.
0:25
If you haven't checked out part one, jump back to the library and hit the go button.
0:29
It's terrific.
0:31
Lots of reflections on his early years in karts, how he lost that finger.
0:35
You'll get a real sense of his immense hunger, and I mean immense, rolling the dice on a successful business to have a crack at making it in single-seater racing in Europe and the Formula One dream.
0:49
Later, in the second part, the decision to move back home and into supercars, meeting and racing for Larry Perkins.
0:56
We shouldn't underestimate just how good Russell's achievements were when he joined Perkins full-time, often putting himself in title contention through sheer determination when the tyre wars in those early years arguably didn't always make for a level playing field.
1:14
We'll talk about Barry Sheen, the Stone Brothers and more.
1:18
We pick up our conversation on the learnings of life racing in Europe.
1:23
The games weren't just on the track.
1:27
It was being dumb on my part, not being street smart.
1:31
You know, I had the smarts to make deals work and drive and do all the rest of it.
1:36
But I wasn't street smart enough outside of the track.
1:41
And I think people that did make it and, you know, the Mark Webbers of the world and that sort of thing, they either surround themselves with people that were street smart and knew how to play the game.
1:53
I didn't, you know.
1:54
So I didn't know how to play the game.
1:56
And I'll give you an answer.
1:57
For example, one of the last rounds,
2:01
in Nürburgring, the new Nürburgring.
2:04
I qualified on the front row in F3.
2:07
Pedro Alami was next to me.
2:09
He was on pole and he was going for the championship.
2:11
He had to, if he won that race, he was going to win the German F3 championship.
2:16
And a guy come up to me with Pedro Alami and said, look, we're an Opel-sponsored team.
2:21
You know, we don't, you know, can we have an arrangement here that...
2:28
you know, Pedro wants to win this and, you know, we'll make something work for you down the road.
2:34
And I'm sort of going, is these tall bags coming up to me and going, just throw a race or something, you know, so he can win.
2:41
I'm on the front row, you know, like one of the biggest races of the year, hundreds of thousands of spectators in front of the – I'll tell you what, what about you jam that where the sun don't shine and I'll see you on the track, right?
2:53
Yeah.
2:54
As I found out later, the guy, the old boy that came up to me, he wasn't old then, but, you know, was Willie Webber, right?
3:01
Michael Schimmack is manager, right?
3:04
And Pedro Lamy's manager.
3:05
So I've just told one of the biggest managers in Europe,
3:09
to go jam it basically.
3:10
So probably not the smartest thing to do in the world.
3:14
So again, just things like that.
3:16
And I'm sure they probably, and I think that hurt me a little bit.
3:20
But the other thing that hurt me was that I got to the end of that.
3:24
And because of those results, I thought it was going to be a little, I thought it was the European thing was coming to an end.
3:32
And I had a meeting with the Volkswagen team.
3:39
And they had actually were one of the most competitive teams.
3:42
They were a Rolt factory team and ran the Volkswagen factory engines and they were it.
3:49
And I had a chance to go in with that team.
3:54
At the same time, Ralph Furman rang me up and said, right,
4:00
they'd been running their own F3 car, the Van Diemen built one in the Formula 3 with Jason Plato in the British Championship.
4:09
And we're getting mixed results, but they were getting better.
4:11
And they said, look, Russell, we've got a Japanese backer.
4:15
He's going to back us to the hilt with this thing, with this F3.
4:21
They want a driver.
4:22
We want you driving it.
4:23
And we're going to do the European and British Championship and we want you in the seat.
4:27
And I sort of went, oh, geez, hang on.
4:30
drive here in Germany potentially and one back here and it's a paid drive and I thought, oh, damn it.
4:36
No, I'm going to take the British one because I had in the back of my mind, I've got to go back to Britain.
4:41
If I win the British F3 championship, that's going to take me to F1.
4:45
And went there just before about two weeks out from the season starting, the Japanese backer pulled out, whole program collapsed and that was it.
4:56
I couldn't get back to Germany.
4:59
And I was out.
5:00
I thought, damn it, what an idiot.
5:02
And just to rub salt into the wound, the Volkswagen team that year went on to win the German Formula 3 championship.
5:08
So I thought, yeah, so that was, I thought my days were out there.
5:16
But then that rolled in because Ralph felt so guilty about it.
5:21
He said, well, look, we don't want to see you not have a year with him.
5:24
So he paid me to race.
5:26
the new Z-Tec Formula Ford Championship.
5:28
That's when they used the new twin cam engine.
5:31
And that was that big year where we ran 13 or 16 races, won the Formula Ford World Cup at Brands Hatch.
5:37
And, yeah, so that's what led into that.
5:40
But, yeah, that was a game changer because probably if I stayed in Germany, there was a good chance I was going to be definitely the top three but a good chance of winning that championship and especially after...
5:51
learning all the tracks for a year, learning how the system worked, that would have been a game changer.
5:56
That would have been if I won the German Formula 3 championship, that would have guaranteed me a deal in 3,000 and then you would have been knocking on the door.
6:03
But one wrong move and...
6:07
Didn't happen, but not that I was to know, but again, just not being smart enough, you know, to pick the right game, you know, whereas probably someone else would have gone, no, don't do that.
6:19
Stay here, do this.
6:20
You establish yourself.
6:22
You're a foreigner that's made a name for himself in Germany.
6:25
make the most of it but again i didn't have the vice i was just going on my instincts and the instincts are wrong you know but anyway that was uh but mate that year in germany was so cool and uh got to do some cool stuff um cool race raced in monaco um that that was that was outstanding greg honestly um if if there's one story out of all this it probably highlights anything it's that
6:50
you know, Gino Monica.
6:52
Yeah.
6:52
Fantastic race, isn't it?
6:53
Fantastic.
6:54
And so you imagine, again, this kid from Adelaide, you know, in this two-year-old GIO jacket because that was the only one I was still kicking around, and it's corduroy, which made it even more bogan.
7:08
And we're standing in the tunnel because the F3s raced on the Saturday.
7:13
Yep.
7:13
Yeah.
7:15
And our passes kept us over so we could go out on a Sunday.
7:20
So I said, okay, all right.
7:22
So here we are in Monaco.
7:24
So this outrageous, filthy rich, you know, there were some of the wealthiest people in the world there, biggest motorsport event in the world.
7:36
Number one, I raced at the track there.
7:38
I think we finished ninth on the Sunday from 16th or something.
7:43
So I was pretty stoked about that.
7:45
And so we had a really good weekend.
7:50
And there we are standing in the tunnel in a practice session.
7:54
I remember this vividly.
7:55
So the...
7:56
In those days, you could actually walk through the tunnel.
7:58
There was a walkway down one side where the officials or the flaggers stand.
8:03
So during the practice sessions, you could go down and walk through that tunnel.
8:07
You couldn't stop, but you could keep walking through.
8:08
So walking through there in a practice session and you got...
8:12
you know, Antin Senna, Mansell, Prost, all the heroes of that era.
8:17
And the great cars.
8:18
In those turboed eras, and it was just loud as hell.
8:22
And I'm sort of standing there going, are you serious?
8:25
Here's this dude.
8:27
from Australia, from Adelaide, standing here in one of the world's most outrageous events and biggest events, watching Formula 1 cars that I could just almost reach out and touch.
8:38
Nice.
8:38
And I walked her through and going, this is ridiculous, you know.
8:43
It's surreal.
8:44
And the whole week, it was.
8:45
And even at nights, you know, I'd grab Julie and we'd go out and get a takeaway or get something.
8:50
Yeah.
8:51
There's not many McDonald's places in Monaco, I can tell you.
8:55
You're wandering through this joint and just, you know, all the massive boats and everyone's in their tucks and there's piano players on the back of boats and you're just walking.
9:04
And we're walking through all this all weekend and just going, man, this is – if it ended tomorrow, I'd be happy, you know, because just doing cool stuff like that.
9:13
To have been there.
9:14
I lie when I say that because when then tomorrow came, right, let's go.
9:18
Let's get back on with the deal.
9:21
But it was those sort of outrageous things and stuff that, again, not many people know about, but to have the opportunity to do that, that –
9:31
that you never get to do again ever, you know, and number one to race on that track, but also just to walk around amongst that sort of atmosphere was just unbelievable.
9:42
So that 92-year German F3 was...
9:47
Probably a major highlight, you know.
9:49
Everybody talks about Bathurst wins and that sort of thing.
9:52
But I look back at some of that stuff and go, that's cool because that will never happen again.
9:58
Not my lifetime anyway.
9:59
And I'm glad, Russell, that you've paused to...
10:03
appreciate some of the results along the way you talked about the front row you know appearance there at the Nürburgring and and some of the drivers that you competed against and there's even stuff that that I digress here for a moment you know things like Macau where you went 23rd to 5th battling the likes of David Coulthard I mean there's just there's there's great things like that can I can I pick up on something from your last answer there you talked about Senna coming through the tunnel
10:30
We've talked about wandering around Monaco with Julia.
10:33
Julia, clearly from, you know, an early age, has an eye for photography.
10:39
She's, even now, the landscape shots and things that she does are beautiful.
10:43
But she strikes up a little bit of a friendship with Ed and Senna and took some great, great photos of him.
10:50
I mean, that stuff is surreal too, Russell, isn't it?
10:52
I think you're just trying to crack onto it, Greg.
10:54
Yeah.
10:55
I'm actually not sure about this because this was in 91.
10:59
I did a couple of one-off races in Vauxhall Lotus, which was just below F3, British F3, one make series, and super fast cars.
11:09
And we, Martin Donnelly, the XF1 driver who had that horrific crash and did serious injuries to his legs, he was running a Vauxhall Lotus team and he offered me the drive.
11:23
He said, look.
11:24
Do you want to come up and do a one-off at the British Grand Prix in the Vauxhall Lotus?
11:29
Hell yeah, let's do it.
11:30
So, again, I think we qualified in the front row for that as well.
11:35
So, it was amazing.
11:39
It was just an amazing weekend.
11:42
Anyway, so we...
11:44
He knew that Julia was a photographer.
11:48
And just to roll back a little bit, Julia actually did photography before we went overseas.
11:52
That's how we met.
11:53
Because she was an Australian photographer and she had deals with Nissan Motorsport and with Brock, with Holden,
12:04
dealer team back when it was then.
12:07
So she used to do all the press photography for those teams and that's back when it was old school.
12:12
So she used to take the photos on the Friday, Friday night.
12:17
She'd be working all night in the development baths.
12:21
She was no digital.
12:22
She was each of your bath and you put it in, then hang it up on pegs on a line and that sort of thing, and then give it to all the teams on Saturday morning for all their press kits because that's when she was...
12:32
No social media, of course.
12:33
So everyone had a press kit with the photos from the Friday practice sessions and that sort of thing.
12:37
So she was trying to make out a little, you know, a business for herself doing that and doing very well and travel the countryside.
12:46
And that's how we actually met.
12:48
She actually stayed at my place.
12:51
uh, for the Australian Grand Prix and she was photographing for the Australian Grand Prix corporation.
12:56
So, so that's how we actually met and started dating and, and that's how it all went.
13:00
So she had to give up a lot of that when we went overseas and follow me for what I was doing.
13:06
And, um, yeah, so, so she was, uh, she was doing it just, you know, just a little bit of freelance stuff.
13:14
Oh, only for herself while we're in England and Europe.
13:17
And, uh, yeah, so we're at Silverstone.
13:19
Um, and, um,
13:21
Martin Donnelly said, oh, do you want to go over the Formula One pits and have a look around?
13:28
And I said, well, look, take Julia because, you know, she would want to take some photos and that, so take her in there.
13:33
So anyway, so Martin takes her in the Formula One pits and they're walking her around the back of Silverstone.
13:38
Anyway, she comes back and she's like, oh, guess what?
13:40
So what?
13:41
I just sat there with Ayrton Senna.
13:44
So she's gone up to Ayrton Senna because she had this beautiful, which I can see it from here actually across the room, beautiful picture that she took at the Adelaide Grand Prix and it was a real stance one, you know.
13:53
It was really concentrating on the start of a race.
13:56
And so she wanted it signed.
13:57
So Martin took her in with a photo and got it all personally signed and then he said, oh, I'm just about to have a cup of tea.
14:04
Do you want tea?
14:05
They sat down for half an hour having a bit of a chat and a tea.
14:09
So she comes back and goes, oh, yeah, I just met Ed Senna.
14:11
We just had a cup of tea.
14:12
I'm going, oh, thanks.
14:14
Thanks for the invite.
14:17
So she's just a bit, I mean, you talk at highlights, I'm sure that's one of hers because, again, that was her absolute idol as far as motorsport goes.
14:27
And she is a serious petrolhead and was Ed Senna.
14:31
So, again, Ed Senna.
14:33
To meet your idol very rarely happens in life and especially someone like him.
14:39
And we were in Europe when he lost his life.
14:45
And it was different again over there, Greg, being in Europe and experiencing that.
14:50
And it was like, I've never experienced anything like it.
14:54
The devastation and the shock that went through the motorsport community over there was just unbelievable.
15:00
And then everything that happened after that, it was just, yeah, it was just incredible.
15:07
But to have the chance to actually meet him and that sort of thing.
15:11
So, again, you know, you sort of put that in the –
15:15
in the memory box and you go, that's pretty cool.
15:17
That was, that was cool.
15:19
Very.
15:20
I want to get to the supercars chapter in a moment, Russell, but before we conclude this, this overseas part of your, your career, you talked about Ralph Furman giving you the opportunity to, to go, uh, to formula forward again, 93, 13 of 16.
15:35
You talked about that record breaking year and the, you know, the festival as well.
15:40
I mean, that was a huge thing.
15:41
Did you, when you tick that box and, uh,
15:45
Did you hope that, you know, the chance to go back to Formula 3 somewhere or were you hoping that ticket, that phone call would come, Russell?
15:54
And what transpired in the wake of that Formula Ford crown?
15:58
Absolutely.
15:58
I mean, because of messing out and, like I said, making those wrong calls in F3 and getting the bad news that the British program fell apart,
16:08
I mean, it's great.
16:09
I mean, someone like Ralph Furman, Stature, who is one of the biggest car manufacturers in Europe, you know, still offered me a deal, you know.
16:17
I mean, he could have quite easily said, oh, sorry, lights out, but at least he offered me something, which was great, and that's a relationship that we had.
16:25
I realised because it was taking a step back again from F3, that I had to make it count.
16:32
And the thing is, and what went against me anyway was my age,
16:37
I was getting too old at that stage to be going backwards.
16:43
I knew I had to keep progressing forward.
16:46
So I had that age thing, which was an issue for me.
16:50
I never thought of it that, but unfortunately, in the outside motorsport circles, it did.
16:55
And so I knew I had to punch it out the park, like not just win, like smash it.
17:01
And I realised if I was going to do it, that's what I had to do.
17:04
And...
17:06
And that was a mindset all along.
17:07
Didn't matter what.
17:08
And I took some massive risks on the track.
17:13
But again, it's the learning experience of, you know, if you're about to take an uppercut, you know, make sure you can duck, you know.
17:21
And I was ducking a lot.
17:22
And, yeah, it was an outstanding year.
17:25
And I think that's what at least gave me another year or two in the game was because of...
17:33
90th because of that year.
17:35
Because if I didn't get any results there or just got a place, that would have been it.
17:40
She would have been on the slow ship back to Oz and lights out.
17:45
So that was a massive year.
17:46
But, again, it was the competition was fierce.
17:50
And that World Cup, that Brands Hatch, again, you talk at special moments and highlights of careers.
17:58
And to have your name up at, they call it the...
18:02
the Kentagon there at Brands Hatch because it's shaped like a 50-cent piece, this bar, pub, you know, eatery right in the middle of Brands Hatch and they've got a big plaque up on the wall and all those plaques and you look at it and it's Jensen Buttons, Ed and Senna's, you know, think of Mansell, any of the big names that you'd think about, they're all that and then there in the 1993, Russell Engel.
18:27
I'm going, I'm sorry.
18:30
Yeah, look at this.
18:31
I mean, that's, you know, it's pretty, that was a pretty big deal for us in total.
18:38
And the event as such was just, you got hundreds of Formula Fords just there and it's just a knockout heat.
18:47
You know, you're just in there and each heat, you don't win that heat,
18:50
You're out, you know.
18:51
So it was just insane, the level of competition for it.
18:56
And it's just unfortunate that you can't share that with other people, the magnitude of it, you know, because you just say, oh, it's a Formula Ford race.
19:04
It wasn't a Formula Ford race.
19:06
Like this was unbelievable.
19:07
Best in the world.
19:08
Oh, it was.
19:09
It was.
19:09
And they used to get drivers come back from other categories, from Formula 3000, from Formula 3 used to come back to Formula Ford just so they could do the festival.
19:20
You know, that's how big it was, you know.
19:22
So you had named drivers in there as well.
19:24
And, uh, yeah, she was, uh, that, that was, that was a big event.
19:29
But again, there was, there was two things winning the event itself.
19:32
Unbelievable.
19:33
And the championship.
19:35
Uh, but secondly, the by-product that is it kept me in the game still.
19:39
Okay.
19:40
Right.
19:40
Yeah.
19:40
We're back in the game, got me the Japanese drive in F3 and, uh, she was back, you know, and then formula Renault after that.
19:48
And, um,
19:50
It was continued on.
19:52
At least I was still in the game, still fighting, you know, but I was running out of time, you know, and I knew it, you know.
19:59
So probably the stage towards the end of Europe, that's when I had to make the call.
20:04
Well, the call was made for me because after that win in 95, that was a call.
20:09
But it was difficult to step away because once you step away from Europe, you never go back.
20:16
That's it.
20:16
It's lights out.
20:17
And when you look at all the effort and the dodging and the stealing and everything else that went with it, you know, to walk away from that was bloody hard.
20:30
You know, it was, yeah, sometimes you wish you still had it go.
20:34
But at that stage, it was...
20:37
British Touring Car Championship was really hard to get into.
20:40
There was a couple of few options there that might have been a...
20:43
But the unfortunate part about it, the Formula 1 dream was fading from that point on, from 1993 on.
20:51
And that was hard because that was a goal.
20:56
Formula 1 was a goal.
20:57
And it might have seemed a bit heady, but, you know, to this day, I still believe if I made the right calls and got there...
21:07
I reckon I could have done it.
21:08
I don't know whether that seems a bit egotistical or not, but I wouldn't have gone to all that effort if I didn't think it was.
21:16
I wouldn't have put my whole life on hold and on the line if I didn't think I could do it.
21:22
And I think ability, I know ability, I had it.
21:29
Like I said, I just wasn't street smart enough.
21:30
But anyway, you live and learn on that one.
21:43
The Enforcer was also a 1976 Dirty Harry, Clint Eastwood film.
21:48
Imagine Dirty Harry drove a supercar as well.
21:51
That would be the ultimate Enforcer.
21:54
You touched on the difficulty of making the call.
21:57
Just firstly, my ears pricked up there a moment ago.
22:00
Can you share which potential British touring car teams may have been interested in you before you made the big move back home and a great career in supercars?
22:09
Yeah.
22:11
Unfortunately, again, the way my luck rolls, I had a pretty serious test and a lot of discussions throughout the year with the factory BMW team, with Vic Lee.
22:26
Unfortunately, Vic Lee got done that year for drug smuggling.
22:29
Yeah.
22:32
cocaine in air cylinders across from Europe into Britain.
22:38
So that didn't work out so well.
22:39
It definitely didn't work out so well for him.
22:41
I'm not sure whether he's still taking a holiday or not.
22:45
Yeah, so hence that team folded.
22:48
So that was one of the tests and I was pushing hard with the Ford team
22:57
who, Craig Baird, you know, Craig Baird was driving the Mondeo for a lot of years and that.
23:01
So I was sort of angling towards that because of the Formula Ford connection.
23:05
But again, it was one of those things where it was just bad luck.
23:08
The person I was negotiating with in at Ford Europe ended up leaving that position.
23:13
Someone new came in.
23:14
So again, it was just wrong place, wrong time.
23:19
Again, this is...
23:20
It seemed to be a bit of a consistent thing.
23:22
I'm going, damn it.
23:23
You know, every time I jiggle, I'm jiggling the wrong way here.
23:26
So, yeah, so that didn't – but that, again, the British Charing Car Championship was – because the Formula Ford Series used to follow outstanding.
23:34
Like some of the racing was ridiculous how good it was.
23:37
So I was sort of interested in that because I looked at it as a Formula Ford with a body on it.
23:42
Mm-hmm.
23:42
So I think, and it was hard racing, you know, so I think I would have really enjoyed that side of it.
23:48
But probably inside of me as well, I still wasn't ready to give up the open wheeler dream yet.
23:52
So I probably didn't push as hard as I should have, you know, because I still had in the back of mind I could still do it.
23:59
But, you know, as it turned out, it didn't roll that way.
24:03
Just expand on the turning point for you then, Russell, because, you know, Larry Perkins has detailed at functions that you and I have been to about, you know, the tragic loss, obviously, of Greg Hansford, who'd had success with him at Bathurst in 93.
24:19
There was an opportunity for a new co-driver with Larry Perkins, one of the all-time greats of touring car racing in this country.
24:27
I mean, to partner up with LP for the great race, huge opportunity, wasn't it?
24:32
Oh, absolutely.
24:33
You know, and that's what changed the path, you know, getting that call.
24:39
Like I said, in our little, you know, two-bedroom, semi-detached house in Peterborough over in UK and getting that call there.
24:51
First time I thought it was a prank when he rang because it was a typical... What did he say?
24:56
What do you reckon Larry Perkins would have said?
24:57
G'day, cock, what are you doing for Bathurst?
25:01
You got it.
25:01
You got it.
25:02
Straight out.
25:03
Straight out.
25:04
And I thought, one of my mates back in Australia having a bloody run at me here.
25:08
So I said, who's this?
25:11
Piss off.
25:12
And he's gone, it's Larry.
25:15
Oh, hi, Larry.
25:17
How are you going?
25:18
And yeah.
25:19
He's, yeah, so he threw that one at me and I said, well, yeah, absolutely.
25:25
You know, I've got nothing too much on the table now.
25:27
So there was no intent at that stage to go back to Australia, right?
25:31
Not at all.
25:32
I was still working on trying to get another drive, right, for 95.
25:36
So I was still working on that.
25:38
I'd raced Japanese Formula 3 in Canada.
25:43
That year, and I was sort of semi-living there and semi-commuting back there because Julia had a pretty good job with IBM in UK.
25:51
So she stayed in UK, and I was sort of spending months of the time in Japan and then coming back in between.
25:59
But the intention was to still try and keep going.
26:03
So I had no intentions to come back.
26:04
Clearly that resonated with Larry too, Russell, because he'd done similar hard yards.
26:09
That was a path he admired, clearly.
26:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
26:15
And later on, and I did ask him why I got the call, and that's what he said.
26:20
Well, there's two things.
26:21
There was...
26:22
Exactly what you said because he regarded anyone that took a swing overseas and was successful at it, he regarded really high because he knew, again, this is rolling right back to what I said earlier on at first parts of our discussion about the level of competition was so high.
26:40
He said, if you can go right over there, you can go right anywhere.
26:44
So that was his first call.
26:46
The second call was, again, not too many people know this, and probably the biggest one, believe it or not, and it shows you the character of Larry Perkins.
26:55
They had a line-up of everyone at Sandown of all the Formula Ford champions, right, over the period of time.
27:03
I think it was before one of the touring car races or I can't remember what it was, what the event was for.
27:08
And all I know is that Sandown was standing at the arm car and we're all lined up, you know, and Larry was next to me.
27:14
I'm like, okay, right.
27:16
Anyway, so they had all the Formula Fords lined up and, you know, there was some of the other younger ones too that were there and Larry, um,
27:26
He made an off-the-cuff comment standing next to me about, I was talking to him about Formula Fords and, oh, yeah, they're a bit, you know, what they like to drive compared to what it is.
27:36
And he made it off the cuff.
27:37
He said, oh, and he looked down at like three or four of us lined up there and said, oh, look, I could probably jump in one of these things and probably still kick your backsides, you know.
27:46
And then the three guys next to me, the three kids next to me, they sort of went, oh, okay, Larry, and sort of looked away and looked down.
27:54
And I just turned around and looked at him and said, Larry, any time you're ready, mate, any time, and we'll have a go because good luck with that, all right?
28:02
So just straight down, gun barrel, pointed straight at him, right, straight at him.
28:08
And he's just going, oh, yeah, yeah, all right, and he's turned around.
28:12
And he reminded me of that.
28:14
This was years after.
28:14
And he reminded me of that and said, you know what?
28:19
How I know that you actually had it is because all those other drivers shied away, you're the only one that came back at me.
28:28
Not daunted.
28:29
No, if you did that, you're not worried about anything.
28:32
I said, that's what I want driving my car.
28:34
I went, oh, okay.
28:35
Just that one thing.
28:36
So there you go.
28:37
So I did a lot of things wrong.
28:39
That one I got right.
28:41
And that's where I got the drive.
28:42
So you still have the European thing burbling away.
28:46
Julia's in England, as you said.
28:50
And, you know, a great chance comes up with Larry.
28:54
At what point...
28:55
Was it the Bathurst win in 95?
28:58
What was the point where you went, I've got to get on this bandwagon, this touring car come supercars thing is going to take off, it'll be good for me?
29:06
Did you just feel like you couldn't get that last break in the open wheeler side of things in Europe?
29:12
What was the stopping point?
29:14
Age.
29:15
Yeah.
29:15
My age.
29:16
I suddenly come to the realisation, you know, I sort of was getting up into the sort of mid-20s and, you know, I got back from that Bathurst win, which I never expected, you know.
29:27
So I never expected that when I packed my bags from Peterborough, jumped on the plane at Heathrow and that I'd be rolling back with
29:36
you know, trophy, you know, winning the biggest race in motorsport.
29:39
Mega achievement, Russell.
29:41
Like you talked about the nosebleeds before and how it made you feel to conquer the mountain.
29:45
That must have been mighty.
29:47
You know what, though?
29:48
I found it really easy.
29:49
Did you?
29:50
I found it easy because of what happened on that first lap.
29:54
Because all of a sudden I went from having the world on my shoulders to here's this dude that's been racing over in Europe.
30:02
Yeah, seems to have a bit of talent.
30:04
Overhearing.
30:06
I overheard a few journalists on the grid before that start of that race in 95 comment that, again, you talk about fire in the belly, comment that, who do you think your chances are?
30:21
And they went through, you know, and Glen Seaton and, you know, Scaife and, you know, they got to Larry's car and they said, oh, yeah, Larry's always in with a shot.
30:29
And I said, yeah, but, you know, his co-driver's got no experience.
30:32
He's probably going to let him down.
30:35
And this was an earshot, probably not knowing that I was listening.
30:38
I go, oh, really?
30:40
Okay.
30:41
All right.
30:41
Take that on board.
30:43
So that was one thing.
30:44
I thought, yeah, I don't respond well to that sort of stuff.
30:47
And then the second part was what happened on lap one because when that tyre went down, we went a lap down, all the pressure was gone off of me.
30:58
You know, I could go out and if I shunted the thing, you know what?
31:01
Well, you shunted it because you're having a go.
31:04
So there was no pressure all of a sudden.
31:05
So every stint that I drove in that car, I was just giving it a massive big, a lot bigger than I probably would have if we were leading the race or in contention normally.
31:15
But there was no pressure.
31:16
So I could just go out and do what I did best and not worry about anything.
31:20
So in hindsight, it actually probably worked out best because it made me, Larry,
31:27
done it plenty of times.
31:29
It made no difference to how he was going to approach the race.
31:31
I was a bit different because I'm sharing a car with someone that's expected to win the race and one of the biggest names in motorsport.
31:43
So...
31:44
bit of pressure there for someone for a relative novice, you know, so, but that took that all away.
31:49
So the way it panned out probably helped us win that race, you know, that, that I could actually have a big swing at it without the pressure of, you know, of stuffing it up, you know.
31:58
Massive Russell, absolutely massive.
32:00
So,
32:01
The Supercars chapter for you rates very highly with lots of fans.
32:07
You've talked about age being sadly a big determining factor in the European thing.
32:15
But what opens with that Bathurst win, with Larry, with partnerships with various organisations that you've talked about already was the start of something very special for you.
32:29
When did the enforcer tag come along and who kind of christened that?
32:33
I sense it's a journo.
32:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're dead right.
32:36
Paul Gaver was the one that kicked that off.
32:39
And there was a lot of reasons towards it too because, like, obviously after the 95 win and I went back to UK, Larry rang back up again and said, look...
32:51
we're going to drive for you full-time if you want it.
32:53
Castro will want to put on a second car because he was only a solo car runner and it's there if you want it.
33:00
And there was nothing else happening, nothing solid in Europe.
33:04
Like I said, the age thing was always a concern and I thought, well,
33:08
you know what, I'm old here, but I'm young in Australia.
33:12
And so, you know, between all of us, we just decided that was going to be the gig.
33:17
So packed up bags, which was a hard call, Greg.
33:20
You know, it was hard to, it was hard after punching away for that long.
33:25
And we did it, you know, so we thought, oh, okay, well, let's have a go.
33:31
It could be worse things in the world to do.
33:33
And probably timing was right.
33:36
um, for once I did get the timing right, you know, because that's when supercars were starting to change and, uh, and, and the whole, um, the way it was being marketed and, and, and, and the inception of supercars was happening, you know, the tag.
33:50
So it was a good time to do it.
33:52
And, uh, um,
33:55
Yeah, so it was the two-car team, roll back.
34:00
What did he say to you about a wage?
34:01
I bet that was – look, there won't be a huge amount of money cock in this.
34:06
Serious, that's what makes me laugh a bit with some of the young guys now when they're going out.
34:12
They're probably whinging about like, oh, you're only going to pay me a couple hundred grand.
34:17
Trust me, I reckon I would have got more money, I reckon, selling ice creams out the front of Surface Paradise there.
34:24
It was, yeah, she was pretty slim but you know what?
34:29
I know people always say to me like,
34:31
you know, oh, you just, you know, you're always in it for a buck or, yeah, I'm wheeling and dealing a lot because that's what I've always done since I was a kid, you know, wheeling and deal, you know, whether it be working on mate's cars or buying and selling cars or buying and selling parts, you know, that's the way I've always been.
34:47
But at the end of the day, I took that drive for ridiculous money.
34:51
I probably could have gone somewhere else for more money.
34:55
But I did it because, number one, Larry gave me the break to do it.
34:59
He was the one that
35:00
that gave me the opportunity when others clearly didn't and wouldn't, and I wanted to drive for him.
35:05
You know, so you can say what you want and all the rest of it, or others can, but, you know, I did that for the reason, not the money.
35:15
You know, so definitely not for the money.
35:19
But again, you know, you've got to look long-term.
35:21
I realised if I'm going to make a long-term career out of this, this is where I'm at now.
35:26
Forget Europe, not going to be a Formula 1 star.
35:29
That's life.
35:29
Get on with it.
35:30
If I'm going to make a go with this, I've got to – and learning from what I've learnt overseas, about what I said earlier about S3, not positioning myself right.
35:40
This time I'm going to position myself right.
35:42
Okay.
35:42
Get on the bandwagon.
35:43
Yeah.
35:44
This time I'm going to get it right.
35:45
So get for the right people, make it right, make it for the right reasons because it's going to be the rest of my career.
35:53
So, again, so this time, you know, do what you learn.
35:57
So I definitely did it that time and that's why.
36:00
But, yeah, he was not known for spending a dollar off.
36:04
Yeah.
36:06
But again, that was good because like you said, he's not going to spend money on palm trees.
36:09
He's going to spend it on making fast cars.
36:11
Cars, exactly.
36:12
Fast cars is what got four runners up in the championship, two Bathurst wins.
36:18
So you'd take that all day long over palm trees, that's for sure.
36:21
Most definitely.
36:22
And it was the beginning of, you know, a huge rise in the popularity of the sport.
36:27
Was the enforcer nickname, we love that sort of stuff.
36:31
I mean, I think Paul Radisic was the rat.
36:32
There were all these nicknames that started to come through it.
36:36
Was that both, you know, in terms of character, of the commercial side of it, a blessing, obviously.
36:44
But did it come with some, you know, challenges, I guess, as well in terms of perception and things like that?
36:50
To ask your question a bit earlier, yeah, Paul Gover was actually, who's a journalist, actually came up with it and mentioned it in a couple of columns and we used to talk about it a bit and he said about the black hat and the white hat because everyone wanted to be the next Peter Brock.
37:05
No one wanted to be the Alan Moffat who was seen as the aggressor, you know, and I said, well, look.
37:12
Sport needs that, Russell, doesn't it?
37:14
It needs that.
37:15
It's about personalities and you know that better than anyone.
37:18
I mean, you've been part of the media for so long, you know.
37:23
I mean, that's what you guys want to talk to someone that's got something to say, you know, at the end of the day.
37:29
And so I was quite happy to roll with that.
37:31
And I could see the commercial sense in it.
37:34
And also, it wasn't far from the truth because of the atmosphere that I'd just come from.
37:39
I'd just come from, you know, racing in some of the world's toughest categories, right?
37:45
with some of the world's toughest drivers and harshest environments.
37:49
And I was, I was sharp, you know, I came back and it was like, there's only one spot and that's that fresh air out front.
37:56
You know, I'm not going to be sucking up exhaust fumes from someone else.
37:59
I'm going to be giving them, you know?
38:01
So, um,
38:03
And that was a mentality I come with.
38:04
And it rubbed a lot of people up because when I came back here, there was still a lot of the owner races going on.
38:11
So people were Dick Johnson's and, you know, people owned the cars, owned the team, were still racing, you know.
38:16
And so you took it to heart a bit if they got, you know, banged up a bit.
38:21
And they couldn't deal with it initially, I felt.
38:24
I felt that because I came back and I was pretty aggressive because that's the way I've always raced.
38:29
I didn't do it to...
38:31
rub people up the wrong way or whatever.
38:33
That's where I've come from.
38:34
I come from kill or be killed.
38:36
Yes.
38:37
You know, so, and a lot of people that and a lot of the public couldn't get their head around that.
38:43
So I think the whole Enforcer thing started coming along and started rolling and making a bit more sense in the respect that it probably took a little bit of that pressure off where people started to warm to it and go, you know, over the years and go, oh, yeah, well, you know,
39:00
yeah, we get on board with that.
39:02
A lot of people used to hate it too, so you got just as much as hate mail as you did, you know, friendly, but at least you got – that's what you want.
39:09
No one wants warm and fuzzy all the time.
39:12
The only way sport works is when you got like, dislike.
39:16
You got controversy, you know, and I seem to somehow fall in the middle of all that a lot of the time.
39:22
But it also had its downsides, I believe.
39:27
A lot of people probably in some of the –
39:30
in some certain areas and positions that might listen to this, might think not or not agree with it, is that the trouble is with having a tag like that, sometimes I could have been sitting in the grandstand and I would have got blamed for something that happened out on the track.
39:49
And I think that sometimes rolled down into individuals that probably had a bit of influence within certain decisions that were made on track.
40:00
And when I look back at some of the championships that I lost by only a few points and then I look back at some of the events that I got penalties for or whatever and –
40:14
I look back at that and go, you know what?
40:17
If it was in today's environment and it had been a non-event, that penalty wouldn't have applied or would have been.
40:22
Again, I think it was a leftover from the gentleman racing thing to people couldn't get their head around real hard racing and some of the people making decisions of that era couldn't get their head around it as well.
40:35
Some probably should have and should have known better, I believe.
40:41
And like I said, it's only my opinion.
40:43
But...
40:44
At the end of the day, I know it cost me a couple of championships of decisions that were made.
40:49
And so I paid a penalty for being the enforcer, I believe.
40:54
But on the upside of it, there was a lot of pluses too, you know, and it got a good following out of it and people liked it.
41:01
And as it went on, and I believe it transitioned into, especially now they're starting to realise that,
41:10
if you want controversy, if you want entertainment, it's got to start on the track.
41:15
Got to start on the track.
41:16
You know, you can't watch a good rugby or league match, you know.
41:21
without having tackling.
41:23
If you took the tackling away, it'd be a pretty average game.
41:27
And you've got to have it with this.
41:29
And I believe it's changed now, people getting their head around it as time went on.
41:34
But back then, it was hard work and you got chastised a bit about it.
41:38
So it was – but it was –
41:42
I never regret it.
41:43
I never would go back and change my style or how I did it.
41:47
And if I didn't like, if I like someone, I have respect.
41:51
And that's the difference.
41:52
I always have respect for people.
41:54
If I didn't like someone, I'd tell them.
41:56
And I'd tell them straight to their face.
41:59
But if I liked someone or liked the way they drove, I respected them.
42:06
And I never had issues with people that I respected.
42:09
I never had problems with the likes of someone like Dick Johnson or Peter Brock, and I raced against them because I respected them and what they'd achieved as racers, you know.
42:21
There was a lot that I did that...
42:24
That I didn't.
42:26
And hence, I wasn't shy about letting them know that on the track, you know.
42:31
So, yeah, so I think there's definitely a difference there.
42:35
You've got to still have respect for your competitors as well, the ones that have earned respect, you know.
42:41
Yep.
42:41
Cool.
42:42
Two Bathurst wins, which were mighty and only a couple of years apart, is one of them a favourite for different reasons.
42:48
And I love the post-race vision of you and things like that, what it meant to you, Russell, all those hard yards in Europe and knowing how significant those moments would be for the decade or more still to come in your supercars career.
43:04
Oh, absolutely.
43:05
And they still, like I said, there's moments in time with, like I said, about Monaco and Macau and the Formula Ford World Cup and Festival.
43:17
You know, they're all up there with the Bathurst but in a different way.
43:22
But then you get to the Bathurst and even now, you know, it's getting on quite a few years ago, the amount of people that recall that that you bump into...
43:35
whether it be a restaurant or a pub or just at a racetrack, you know, and they recall that.
43:39
It shows you the enormity of that event as such, hence probably why I used to get nosebleeds all the time, but the enormity of it to the public.
43:52
You know, you probably don't realise that until decades after and then people will still remember it, still go on about it and go, Jesus, okay.
44:00
And even a younger generation of motorsport fans who have gone back and looked at those races and go, hey, that was pretty cool.
44:06
You know, so it never stopped sinking in, I think.
44:11
It definitely was hard to take back then of what had just happened, but then it never stops.
44:18
It keeps going.
44:19
You know, you never get sick of it.
44:20
And yeah.
44:22
Yeah, they definitely – you definitely – I mean, look, make no mistake, championship was good because as a race driver, that's what you always want to win because that's a year's worth of work, you know, not just one week.
44:34
That's a year's worth of work.
44:38
But you'd never –
44:40
you always put Bathurst on a pedestal, that's for sure.
44:43
Most definitely.
44:44
Barry Sheen would feature significantly in your life, mate.
44:48
And you wrote about this very recently.
44:50
He would have been, sadly, he would have been 70 not long before we recorded this podcast, which is crazy.
44:56
He'd still be as mad as ever and having a good laugh, which is great.
45:00
Just share with people, if you can, the impact he did have on you and why you guys got on so well.
45:08
You know, the ultimate move that you did to Ford, the big switch that you did to Ford, he played quite a card in that, quite a part in it, didn't he?
45:16
Oh, absolutely.
45:17
Yeah.
45:18
I mean, first, what a great guy.
45:19
I mean, you were great mates with him too, Greg, on both a personal and professional level.
45:26
And, yeah, just a massive loss, you know, I think, to society as well because you don't get too many Barry Sheens.
45:38
And some of the, honestly, if we had another hour here, this has got some cracker stories, but he was definitely a man
45:46
with a key to the world, that's for sure.
45:50
But, yeah, so, you know, we just struck up a friendship over there.
45:55
I think he liked – I think we got along well because of, you know, the way I went about racing, the European side of it as well because obviously, you know –
46:04
he'd raced all through Europe and okay, I had two wheels, not four, but knew the challenges as well.
46:10
So I think he was one that could appreciate that and, uh, and both pretty knockabout sort of people.
46:16
So, uh, we, we struck up a friendship there and he started giving me some, uh, just advice on, you know, motor sport in general and the game, you know, and again, um,
46:28
I didn't need advice on how to drive.
46:30
I knew you never knock back a knot of advice on how to stay in the game and how to do the game better outside the car.
46:37
And he used to give me advice on that all the time.
46:39
And, and, um, he, um, he always, we holidayed with him.
46:43
So when we were living in Melbourne, we used to come up and stay at his place at Carrara and, uh,
46:49
He always was on to me about moving up here.
46:51
He said, you've got to move up here.
46:53
I said, well, can't.
46:54
I've got to live near the team.
46:56
And that's the gig.
46:58
You've got to be in the same state as your team.
47:00
All these drivers that stay away from not living in the same state as their team, no good.
47:05
You've got to stay.
47:06
If you want to be dedicated, you've got to be in there.
47:09
And he said, well, great.
47:11
We'll just change teams.
47:14
Get on your buzz.
47:15
Yeah, just change teams.
47:16
And lo and behold, off he goes and starts, oh, I've got some meetings with you.
47:20
And long and short of it, when the time came and I think I'd run the course with Larry and Larry wanted me to stay and it wasn't, it was a little bit tense there for a while, but,
47:32
you know, at the end of the day, I was looking at a championship, you know, and he knew that.
47:37
I think deep down, he knew the time was probably up and seven years was a fair innings, you know, and I think we'd repaid each other back.
47:48
Handsomely.
47:49
You know, so between, so it was a good deal, but anyway, it was time to go.
47:54
So Barry had been...
47:58
behind the scenes and been talking with Ross and Jimmy Stone and been talking with Ford and he'd be going, oh, you've got to get Russell.
48:04
You've got to get Russell.
48:06
Exactly right.
48:08
And it was just, and you know, because you can imagine the meetings with him, you know, because he would have walked in.
48:13
I won't do, you do your Pumby accent a lot better than I do mine.
48:16
And I'm a Pum.
48:17
And he would have gone into Ross and Jimmy Stone and done exactly that.
48:21
Just get him, just sign him, you know.
48:23
And anyway, so we ended up,
48:26
Believe it or not, it was some of my deals, and I'll tell you about the super cheap.
48:31
Remind me to tell you about the super cheap one later.
48:33
But we did the deal with Ford.
48:37
And so we got talking with Ross and Jimmy.
48:40
He said, yep.
48:41
So we got agreed on paper, you know, what the deal was going to be.
48:45
And then we went to Ford and Ford wanted to do a deal.
48:48
And so we met up with Jeff Politis at Ford.
48:53
at Ford.
48:54
The then boss of Ford, yeah.
48:56
Honestly, one of the best guys.
48:58
I mean, I've met a lot of directors, CEOs of companies.
49:04
Seriously, he was a star.
49:06
It's such a sad loss.
49:08
Such a great bloke, a bloke that, you know, ran one of the biggest motor companies in Australia, right, and would drive himself, could have drivers, got a, yeah, Hollywood limoes, used to get an XR8.
49:22
drive to and from work, you know, and rev up in front of his neighbours.
49:26
Kept it real.
49:27
Great bloke.
49:28
We met him down here at Marina Mirage, at SeaWorld there.
49:36
He was down here on holidays with his family, said, let's meet up, went down with Baz.
49:42
had lunch with him, had a coffee, you know, thought thongs, not a suit in sight, you know, shorts and thongs, whatever, sat there for an hour, nodded out a deal, shook hands.
49:56
Done.
49:56
That was the deal.
49:57
So he's a guy that runs, you know, like I said, runs Ford Australia and here we are in thongs doing a multi-year deal, you know, and bang, just like that.
50:08
But again, it was cool, you know, because not lawyered up, no accountants in sight, just bang, there it is, do the deal.
50:16
And that was it.
50:18
And we came away, went back to Baz's place and we sort of looked and said, oh, I guess we're moving.
50:24
And that was it.
50:25
So, yeah, we're still living in Melbourne at that stage.
50:27
So, yeah, we ended up buying a block of land up here and building a joint and moved up here and been up here ever since.
50:33
But, yeah, so he was a card.
50:36
But, yeah, he was very instrumental in putting that deal together.
50:40
And out of that came...
50:43
that elusive championship you know and after after four times being runner up i was getting a bit edgy i can tell you so i'll bet you were i'll bet you were brett murray talks about getting you with a pr stunt in a wedding dress on the front page of the adelaide advertiser to shake the bridesmaids tag what did you say to him when he pitched that one at you
51:06
Oh, you can imagine what I said when he called.
51:07
Because we were in Adelaide driving around doing the usual PR gigs before the race, you know, and he throws that one at me.
51:14
I said, Pret, you're seriously on drugs.
51:16
Like, I don't know what you're taking, but they're not mind enhancing.
51:19
Like, she ain't happening.
51:20
You know, she ain't happening.
51:22
And he said, well, look, here's the deal.
51:25
If you don't do it, they're going to put Scaife with a story about Mark Scaife about something or other.
51:33
It'd be something trivial.
51:34
front page of your hometown or your old hometown.
51:38
They're going to stick them on the front page if you don't do it.
51:41
And so phone went quiet for probably a couple of minutes.
51:45
I said, you're a mongrel crusher.
51:46
You know, that's my nemesis.
51:49
That's my weak spot.
51:50
You know, anything to undermine scape, I'm in.
51:53
All right.
51:54
So that was it.
51:55
That was it.
51:56
So in the end, we went down to this damn dress shop and, uh,
52:03
adorning the hairiest pair of legs you've ever seen in your life.
52:06
And, yeah, so we put this dress on and, yeah, off we go.
52:09
So one and only time I've done a bit of cross-dressing.
52:14
But anyway, we did it.
52:18
Yeah, anyway, got front cover.
52:19
I'm not sure it's such a good idea or not.
52:21
But, yeah, things you've got to do, eh, mate?
52:24
Most definitely.
52:25
Most definitely.
52:25
But it worked.
52:26
We worked.
52:27
We shook the bridesmaid.
52:28
You did.
52:29
I think he even made a bridesmaid's dress for the celebration at Phillip Island or had someone make it.
52:36
And Ross Stone got a bit nervous because it was a red dress and I think you guys were going to cut it.
52:40
And Ross thought it might have had like a Holden, you know, undertone or something.
52:44
And that wasn't what it was.
52:45
It wasn't what it was about at all, was it?
52:48
Ross got very nervous about it.
52:50
I tell you, Ross, because he's there, look, fantastic team owners, car builders.
52:59
The dynamic between those two are incredible considering two brothers because usually brothers try to bloody kill each other.
53:07
they got along so well because each of them had their place.
53:10
You know, Ross ran the show, Jimmy was on the spanners, and neither of them conflicted between the two.
53:16
You know, they just got on, and that's why they were so successful.
53:19
But Ross in particular was –
53:23
so nervous about he was the worst for reading fan comments and you know he used to drag me on all the time I just picked up a magazine I see all these fan comments and uh they seem to be a little bit I said Ross it's 10 people all right don't worry about it so oh yeah but you know you maybe you should you know not do that or apologize I said that but he was always paranoid about anything negative you know to say so I said to Ross
53:50
mate, you're probably going to have a fair bit coming at you, you know, over the years.
53:55
So you're probably going to have to relax a little bit on this one because it's just the way I roll and it's going to be, mate, you'll get race wins, but you're going to probably cop a few PR nightmares out.
54:08
And just after I said that, a little incident in 2003 cropped up, which, yeah, that got him going.
54:18
He was, yeah, that caused him a few sleepless nights, I think, that one, because he doesn't like any waves, Ross.
54:26
He likes everything to run smooth.
54:28
And when you get, all of a sudden, you get a few things thrown at you, yeah, he didn't know how to handle that one.
54:34
Yeah, 03 was a bit of a challenge.
54:41
That's the end of part two of my podcast with Supercast Champion and Bathurst winner Russell Ingle.
54:47
Now, normally this would be the checkered flag for another episode, but you're in luck.
54:52
Russell, as you can tell, is enjoying the discussion, so he's kindly going to stick around for even more.
54:59
We have a third part for you with The Great Man.
55:03
Head back to the Rusty's Garage Library and fire up part three.
55:06
He talks frankly about the future of supercars.
55:11
How he did that championship winning burnout while hanging out the side of the Falcon.
55:14
Don't try that at home.
55:16
One of the most talked about incidents in the history of the sport and how deep the rivalry ran with Mark Scaife.
55:23
Some reflections on his time in TV and he tackles some of your questions.
55:28
Music
55:36
Listener.