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The Truths and Myths About the Brook Park Stadium - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 7/13/25 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

0:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Dog's Podcast with your hosts, Lake Renaker, Justin Charles, and Josh All.
0:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, what's up, Browns fans?
0:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to another episode of The Dogs podcast presented by Manly Fans.
0:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Josh, all your hosts today.
0:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got Tom Moore, staff writer from dogsbynature.com.
0:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Joining me on the episode today, and we are going to be talking a lot of stuff about The Browns, but primarily, we're going to pick his brain on the new Dom Stadium Project in Brook Park.
0:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Tom was introduced to me as kind of the stadium guru for Dogs By Nature, and
0:44
[SPEAKER_03]: From what he tells me, kind of just fell into that position, but you took it and ran with it.
0:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And now you're the guy with all the knowledge on this new project.
0:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So Tom, how you doing today?
0:53
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
0:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for having me on.
0:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully, I'll have a good talk here.
1:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll try not to put too much personal opinion behind what mostly keep with the facts.
1:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're going to want a little opinion, but definitely the facts as well.
1:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So before we
1:12
[SPEAKER_03]: dive into it though I do need to remind everybody that if you guys are looking to play fancy football with us I got to keep plugging this head over join the dogs dot com sign up on the patreon page get in there play fantasy all that fun stuff and make sure that you're following us on all the socials at the dogs podcast and go check out dogs by nature dot com and everything that Tom's doing over there including the stadium stuff so I think
1:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's kind of kick off with the most recent news.
1:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess would be this most recent lawsuit that was filed on this past Monday, correct?
1:46
[SPEAKER_04]: The one, oh, the one about the funding.
1:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you kind of explain that to us?
1:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:53
[SPEAKER_04]: There's two former state legislators who are claiming.
1:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So we'll back up for a second.
1:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So the state is contributed to his pledge that they're going to contribute six hundred million to the new stadium project.
2:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And Governor wine, I thought he actually came up with a really good idea to create the state's creating the stadium fund.
2:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So when other teams, other pro teams come to the state, like the Bengals, you know, the cows, guardians, whoever.
2:22
[SPEAKER_04]: and say, we need money for stadiums.
2:25
[SPEAKER_04]: The state will have a pot of money already funded to help those people.
2:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And the one I can't remember was the house or the state legislator or which side of the state legislating body.
2:39
[SPEAKER_04]: One of them wanted to do the traditional municipal bonds.
2:42
[SPEAKER_04]: But the wine wanted to actually increase the tax on the companies that run all the gambling apps.
2:49
[SPEAKER_04]: in sports gambling apps, which actually, to me, sounded like a good idea.
2:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Those companies, they don't employ anybody in the state of Ohio.
2:57
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't do any things.
2:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So pulling money from them to fund this account that then we go to the team seemed to make sense.
3:04
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's not what happened.
3:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But the state did come through and they're going to use their six hundred million.
3:11
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to contribute to the Browns.
3:13
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to come from the unclaimed funds
3:18
[SPEAKER_04]: account, which the state runs, it's kind of, it's a little bit complicated.
3:22
[SPEAKER_04]: People forget that they have money, I don't know how they forget they have money, but you might have forget you have money in a bank account that you closed years ago, or you got a refund, you didn't get something.
3:31
[SPEAKER_04]: So that money sits somewhere.
3:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And after a certain amount of time, it transfers over to the state.
3:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Now you can go online, you can check to see if you have any money, you can get that money back.
3:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But after ten years,
3:45
[SPEAKER_04]: that money now going forward is going to be transferred into this stadium fund for the for the state of Ohio to use to help pro teams when they want to renovate building stadium whatever they want to do.
3:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So now the new lawsuit is there's two former state legislators.
4:02
[SPEAKER_04]: They're saying this is unconstitutional.
4:04
[SPEAKER_04]: You should not do this.
4:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are you taking the people's money?
4:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So they filed a civil lawsuit to try to stop the state from doing that.
4:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Whether that's going to work or not, you know, who nuts?
4:15
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, sometimes you think some of this stuff is probably a little bit of a PR move.
4:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But I guess on the one hand, it's nice that somebody is out there trying to look after, you know, the money of the people.
4:28
[SPEAKER_04]: for that from the state, but I'm thinking, there's a high likelihood that up until a few weeks ago, or when this first came out, a large majority of people in the state had no idea this fund even existed.
4:39
[SPEAKER_04]: So the fact that they're taking money from hardworking people, that's a little bit of a, you know, a PR narrative spin that the one side's kind of put on it.
4:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's a myth, essentially, because basically what
4:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Unless I missed something in there, who just told me was, this is essentially money that not only did people not know this fund existed, they didn't even know they had lost this money in years past.
5:07
[SPEAKER_04]: right so i mean so yeah it is our money but it's you know i did i just don't know i don't know that it's this big um the way it's being portrayed that it's somehow you know hurting the the little the little guy the little person i'm not sure that's a hundred percent true and even if it is you know not to get overly political but that's just kind of the way the world works now
5:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know.
5:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I see a lot of people and comment sections and stuff saying, you know, I don't want my heart rate of tax dollars going to the stupid stadium projects blah, blah, blah, blah.
5:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And I keep trying to remind people that you don't really get a say in where most of your tax dollars go anyway.
5:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And even if you don't support the team, I mean, if you drive to, I live in Summit County, if I go right across the border in the Kaka County, I go to a restaurant, I go to a bar.
5:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm getting taxed on the syntax anyways.
5:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're buying something in Kaka County, you're getting taxed, and that goes to contribute to the money that all three sports teams are using.
6:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's it would be in a perfect world if you're a owner of a sports team and you want a new stadium God bless you you pay for it yourself a hundred percent But unfortunately that's just not the way things work anymore or if they ever did
6:24
[SPEAKER_03]: No, correct.
6:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And then as I understand it, Jimmy Haslam is fronting more money, more of his own money for this stadium than any other owner has before.
6:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that correct?
6:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to say that that's probably correct.
6:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I know it's a fifty-fifty public private.
6:44
[SPEAKER_04]: So one point two billion public, one point two billion private.
6:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're responsible for the one point two billion in the private funding.
6:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, I know there's some safeguards in there if there's cost overruns because there's no way they're building this thing for two point four billion.
6:59
[SPEAKER_04]: There's always going to be cost overruns because the longer you wait, everything is just going to get more expensive.
7:04
[SPEAKER_04]: The steel is going to get more expensive.
7:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything's going to be more expensive.
7:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So if I'm remembering correctly, most of there are some safeguards written in there that they
7:14
[SPEAKER_04]: One, they have to pay the six hundred million back to the state through through the revenue that the project creates.
7:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And also if there are costs overruns, they can't come back and say, we need more money.
7:24
[SPEAKER_04]: They're responsible for it.
7:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Gotcha.
7:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
7:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So if it ends up being two point six billion, they're responsible for that extra, you know, point two over the two cars.
7:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I know correct.
7:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
7:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that makes sense.
7:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's good information.
7:38
[SPEAKER_03]: No, because again, people, people don't take a whole lot of time.
7:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I think sometimes to research this type of stuff and understand it and like you said, there's all these misconceptions about how a lot of the stuff going on with the stadium.
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and you know, in the it.
7:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So what is the situation?
7:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, hmm.
8:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for sure.
8:01
[SPEAKER_04]: If you don't, if you don't look past the headline, you know, it's sometimes, it's easy, just, you know, and then it's a lot of, it's a lot of details to pick, you know, that the average person doesn't want to be, you know, not everybody's on board, like we were Joe can before we came on air.
8:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, not everyone gets excited by stories about municipal bonds and infrastructure and things like that.
8:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So I get it.
8:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
8:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I told you before we started.
8:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, following the nitty-gritty details of this whole thing for the last year plus or however long it's been now, I haven't had that desired interest to go, you know, nitpick the details.
8:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why I wanted to get you on here to help break some of this down for everybody.
8:43
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the current status of this art modell law?
8:48
[SPEAKER_04]: That's an interesting one too, because I know that that's what the city Cleveland is kind of like, it's, it's, it's last gas bond is the Modella is you have, if you're playing in a publicly funded stadium, you have to give notice, it's relieving, you have to give an opportunity to sell the team, all these different things.
9:06
[SPEAKER_04]: But when Governor DeWine signed the latest state budget, there was language in there that updated the Modella, and to me, I think it just made it more
9:17
[SPEAKER_04]: of a common sense and really what it was intended to.
9:19
[SPEAKER_04]: It was intended to protect cities if a team moved out of the state.
9:25
[SPEAKER_04]: The Browns are not moving out of the state.
9:26
[SPEAKER_04]: They're not even moving out of the county.
9:28
[SPEAKER_04]: They're just moving for a team miles down the right.
9:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't really, so they really, that's what they kind of like just re-upped the language to say you have to, you know, it's longer generally even the state and as long as you're obligated, you're fulfilling your lease, which the Browns are intended to do.
9:43
[SPEAKER_04]: They're at least expires at the end of the twenty twenty-eight season.
9:47
[SPEAKER_04]: They're not going to try to break it.
9:48
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to play it after the place somewhere for the next three years while this thing gets built.
9:51
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're just going to stay there.
9:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And to me, I don't think that that was ever going to stop them from doing what they were going to do, but I just think this was an actual common sense way of saying, no luck.
10:05
[SPEAKER_04]: I know this is what it's, this is what people are interpreting, but this is what it really means.
10:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And to sit there and say, you can't leave
10:13
[SPEAKER_04]: the city Cleveland after your police expires.
10:17
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're saying in the county, I mean, come on, you have to have a little bit of common sense here.
10:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, it's going to hurt certain parts of downtown, but you know, I'm not sure what, you know, the city Cleveland, I've lived to my entire life for the most part.
10:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And Cleveland has always been this weird
10:37
[SPEAKER_04]: thing where what's good for Cleveland is good for Northeast Ohio, but they never look at it the other way.
10:43
[SPEAKER_04]: What's good for Northeast Ohio is good for Cleveland, and I think that I think sometimes that holds the city back, I think that kind of, because not everyone goes into downtown Cleveland, but you go out
10:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And you spend your money throughout the county, or you spend it somewhere else, you're still generating money.
11:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think if we just look at it more as what's going to benefit the entire region is a way to, you know, it's a better way to look at it than just like this must go on and downtown Cleveland.
11:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, everybody will come up, you know, come on board.
11:15
[SPEAKER_04]: He's nobody from the city, Cleveland.
11:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I was looking, I think it's something like fifteen percent of the fans in the city.
11:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Cleveland actually go to games.
11:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's only like, thirty-some percent in CIGA county as well.
11:26
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is a regional team.
11:28
[SPEAKER_04]: We all know that.
11:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think, I think, I've lost my train to thought.
11:35
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, so I think the model is okay.
11:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think they put some better clarity around it.
11:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just can't imagine, I mean, anything's possible.
11:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you can't really see a scenario where they're going to be, the house owners are going to be held to, no, you cannot do this.
11:50
[SPEAKER_03]: right yeah and going to you know what you're saying about hurting downtown that's another big argument we we see a ton is that you know this is going to kill the downtown you know economy and all this kind of stuff and our pushback to people is always well it's it's eight Sundays a year you know it's eight home games a year versus okay so now you're like you just said thirteen miles out of the city like you're not that far away but now you've got opportunities to bring events to this region
12:17
[SPEAKER_03]: year round.
12:18
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just a big giant facility that gets utilized eight times a year, which is almost kind of worthless if you think about it.
12:26
[SPEAKER_03]: What is that really doing for the region where we're now we're going to be able to not just have our home games there.
12:32
[SPEAKER_03]: for football season, but now we can do NCAA term, we can do basketball things, we can do wrestling things, we can do monster truck things, they can do concerts and all kinds of different conferences and conventions and things like the possibilities are endless with what they can use this facility to bring into this area.
12:55
[SPEAKER_04]: That's another one that I'm not totally, that's an angle that I'm not super sold on because we already have those events coming, you know, to Cleveland as it is.
13:04
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I was reading something other day where somebody said, oh, we're going to be able to get concerts now and I'm like, well, wait a minute, I grew up here.
13:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I know we've had concerts here because I've gone to them.
13:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is one of the bigger myths, too, that I think more people are catching on to.
13:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Whenever a group proposes a project like this, they talk about all the economic benefits it's going to have, we're going to bring jobs, we're going to bring this, we're going to bring that.
13:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And people are starting to figure out that more and more studies are coming out that it's really just shifting money from one part of town to the other.
13:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I kind of look at it, you know, there are concerts going on at Rocket Mortgage or whatever, whatever the field notes is called nowadays.
13:45
[SPEAKER_04]: They might, if they go over to Brook Park, they're not, we're not getting any new concerts, we're just getting, they're just getting shifted over.
13:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And that money is going to stay in one very specific pocket because all the infrastructure on the new stadium is going to be owned by one specific person.
14:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So that money's just going to stay there.
14:05
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're reading a restaurant, you're parking, that's all going in the Hasems pockets where it gets spread a little bit more around.
14:11
[SPEAKER_04]: If you go into a Guardian's game, you're going to a concert, you're going to a Cavs game.
14:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all kind of spread around that.
14:16
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, we'll see.
14:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure the Browns, I'm sure Cleveland get one Super Bowl because the NFL will want to reward them for building a new stadium.
14:25
[SPEAKER_04]: But as we saw, when the cows were in those finals four years in a row, the national media complained and complained and complained about having to come to Cleveland.
14:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was in the middle of the gym.
14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Nobody wants to come to Cleveland, in fact, in the middle of February.
14:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So they'll get there one super bowl and that's probably going to be yet.
14:41
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you might get a few other big events, but it would that sort of be interesting if that actually does have the kind of impact that some people seem to think it will.
14:52
[SPEAKER_03]: That's an interesting, I guess I had not really thought about it in terms of shifting those events from one place just to another.
14:58
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a really good point.
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16:33
[SPEAKER_03]: timeline wise for the stadium project.
16:36
[SPEAKER_03]: When are they do they have like a proposed date when they plan to break ground on this whole project is do you think I guess what I'm really getting out here to is do you think this entire project gets done and is ready for the kickoff of the twenty twenty nine NFL season.
16:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I would think so unless something like really drastic happens from the very beginning, you know, the hassles have talked about the the milestones they had to hit and the biggest one was they had to have the state funding by now so that they can start working to have the thing done.
17:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to say
17:12
[SPEAKER_04]: the latest that they can start, you know, they were saying like early twenty twenty six, they really had to start, you know, digging and doing the thing.
17:19
[SPEAKER_04]: But as soon as that six hundred million got approved, they went out, they purchased all the land in book park that they need.
17:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So that needs all that pre-work up there because they're going to have to repair the roads, they're going to have to get everything set up there.
17:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So I have a feeling it should, you know, the surrounding parts, restaurants, the hotels,
17:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the office space, that may not be ready, but I have a feel, I think, you know, you're talking in twenty six, twenty seven twenty, you're talking three full years.
17:43
[SPEAKER_04]: They should be able to build, you know, you know, like I said, unless something like drastic or to happen, everything the team has come out and said is the right on the timeline that they need to be on.
17:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So, plus you figured, you know, the season doesn't kick off until September of twenty twenty nine.
17:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you're really talking like three and a half years.
18:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they have the whole summer of twenty twenty nine to, you know, make sure the toilets work, make sure that, you know, the lights turn on, make sure they do all that stuff that, you know, has to be done, all that little last minute stuff.
18:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So, and I have to think,
18:16
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, because Nashville, like what in Nashville and Buffalo is timeline, what is with their current stadiums.
18:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think three, yeah, three and a half years seems, it sounds reasonable for someone who's on the construction business.
18:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know I just, I, with construction, it seems like things always end up going longer than what you planned and it keeps getting pushed out further than expected.
18:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So
18:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just curious on that part.
18:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I know another thing people are worried about is playing on turf and things like that.
18:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know?
18:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess I don't even know this.
18:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they have a plan?
18:47
[SPEAKER_03]: What kind of playing turf are they going to have?
18:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to be grass and dirt somehow?
18:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Or are they just going to be artificial?
18:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think it's what a legion stadium out in Vegas uses actual grass with dirt in my right.
19:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I think so.
19:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I know Arizona has the system where the birds grass out, sorry, on the trees, but obviously their weather is a lot more conducive to growing grass probably in like October, November, December.
19:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
19:12
[SPEAKER_04]: From what I've read, I can't, I can't say I've talked to my head if I can remember exactly what if they've gotten that deep into like what the field itself will actually be.
19:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you'd hope it would be something.
19:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's certainly not going to be artificial turf like you see in the, in the Astridome or, you know, in Philadelphia.
19:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, hopefully it'll be somewhere better than what used to be in the old municipal stadium, which was, you know, dirt paint and green.
19:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but I haven't seen.
19:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, it's talking about the old stadium.
19:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I was thinking about this too.
19:43
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, it's interesting because, like I said, growing up here, going to games there,
19:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Even at the time, you knew it was a dump.
19:52
[SPEAKER_04]: The stadium was a dump, but it was kind of like our dump.
19:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And the new stadium, they had to build it quick, they had to build it cheap.
20:01
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing special about the new stadium.
20:04
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no, there's like no there there.
20:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And like I said, I know I'm biased, but when you were go to the bronze games at the old stadium, there was just something
20:13
[SPEAKER_04]: special about seeing those orange helmets come out of the dugout prior to the game.
20:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And no matter how many, how much spoke to shoot off, how many fake dogs they bring out, how many, you know, flames they shoot off, it's just not the same at the new stadium.
20:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know some people are going to be like, oh, we have to be outside.
20:33
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to miss this.
20:34
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to miss that.
20:35
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just don't really know that
20:38
[SPEAKER_04]: There's just nothing fun or nostalgia.
20:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think anybody, you know, what's it been thirty years since the old city was, I don't think thirty years from now, people are going to be planning for Huntington Bankfield saying, oh, what a special experience was.
20:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And part of that was because the Browns, you know, for part of the time there are a lot of the time they're depending on when you grew up, they were winning, where they're not, they haven't been winning consistently.
20:59
[SPEAKER_04]: in the new stadium.
21:00
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know how much people are going to be like said looking, looking fondly back at the old stadium, if for some reason the experience is not good, better at the new one.
21:13
[SPEAKER_03]: yeah we were I was up at a game last year and you know we were tailgating in the parking lot across from the stadium there and I mean we were just looking over at the the outside of Huntington Bank Stadium and it's just falling apart like it just looks terrible it looks dingy I'm like I can't believe this is a professional NFL stadium and I'm sure not all of them look
21:36
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, state of the art or anything about there's definitely some older stadiums in the league, but man, it's just sitting on the lake, it's just the peeling, falling apart, rusting, everything just looks
21:48
[SPEAKER_03]: bad.
21:50
[SPEAKER_04]: It's tired, it's dated.
21:52
[SPEAKER_04]: They need to do something.
21:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And the reality is, they can't, there's nowhere to build in downtown.
21:57
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nowhere, if they were going to redo a stadium from scratch, that's the spot they probably have to put it on.
22:03
[SPEAKER_04]: There's really nowhere else that you could put a brand new stadium.
22:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And as soon as, you know, I was, you know, the past few years, the bronze have played, you know, they've been in the, they've been there, they've not seen their dome.
22:15
[SPEAKER_04]: They've been, you know, obviously the Dallas a few times.
22:17
[SPEAKER_04]: They've been out LA saw so far.
22:19
[SPEAKER_04]: They were in Las Vegas and they saw and so, you know, as an owner, if you're going to these other sites and you're seeing what's possible and what's out there, obviously you're going to want that.
22:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And renovating either rebuilding or renovating the current stadium was probably not ever going to be feasible, even though the hazards came out at first and just said, hey, we might be open to it, but you knew that there were never really going to be open to it.
22:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And honestly, we're going to get, I'm going to have to apologize.
22:49
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to get a little bit serious here for a moment.
22:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Then we'll go back to some fun.
22:52
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, when they first talked about the possibility of renovating the stadium, a city Cleveland said they would kick in four hundred and sixty one million dollars to do that.
23:02
[SPEAKER_04]: But here's the reality about Cleveland.
23:06
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the city consistently ranks as the second poorest big city in the country.
23:11
[SPEAKER_04]: More than half is residents can't even afford the basics.
23:14
[SPEAKER_04]: We're talking rent, food, utilities, childcare, medicine.
23:18
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not talking luxury apartments.
23:21
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not talking multi-week vacation and yachts.
23:25
[SPEAKER_04]: We're talking like the basics.
23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And you've got a city that more than half the people can't do that.
23:29
[SPEAKER_04]: There are so many problems in this city.
23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: that they have to deal with.
23:32
[SPEAKER_04]: If they have four hundred sixty one million dollars that they can give to a professional sports team owner lying around, there's a lot of other things they could be spending that money on.
23:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So I know Mayor Bibb, it doesn't look good.
23:43
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't want to be the mayor that lost the Browns, but you're not really losing them the way you lost them the last time.
23:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that the city will be okay.
23:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Now you get in there, you tear down that stadium, and all of a sudden now you got an opportunity to build access to the lakefront that you don't have, you know, that's the one thing.
24:02
[SPEAKER_04]: If anybody, if you ever been to Chicago and you see what they did with Navy Pier,
24:07
[SPEAKER_04]: People can get down there.
24:08
[SPEAKER_04]: There's public access.
24:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very limited.
24:10
[SPEAKER_04]: It's always been in Cleveland.
24:12
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a great opportunity for the city to say, OK, we know this kind of like socks.
24:19
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to admit it.
24:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But here we go.
24:21
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to tear this thing down.
24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to actually turn this into something that more people can use.
24:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And it can then actually be a benefit to the city versus the thing that sits there empty.
24:33
[SPEAKER_04]: What do we, you know, three hundred and fifty some days out of the year?
24:38
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I like that a lot.
24:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
24:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and that's a serious part.
24:42
[SPEAKER_04]: We're done with them.
24:43
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
24:45
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, the comparison to Chicago is there's a good one, at least for me.
24:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And if anybody out there's ever been to Chicago and you've gone down to the pier, like you kind of know what Tom's talking about here, it's really cool the way they have the access to the lake front and everything down.
24:57
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so much to do and it's become a destination spot in that city where Cleveland could kind of have that same sort of thing.
25:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of what you're saying, right?
25:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
25:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've seen the videos, we've seen the renderings and everything that the Browns have been putting out to show everybody what they plan for this thing to look like.
25:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess my question for you then is how close do you think the final stadium build, the development, the whole area of Brook Park that they put in the renderings, how close is it going to actually be to those renderings?
25:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say you're probably with the stadium.
25:34
[SPEAKER_04]: It's probably going to be pretty, it'll probably be pretty close.
25:36
[SPEAKER_04]: They've been working.
25:37
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not like they just made this up on the in-house marketing team.
25:41
[SPEAKER_04]: These rendering.
25:42
[SPEAKER_04]: They've been working with, you know, outside company, and I'm sure that they have a clearer, and that's the other thing, too.
25:46
[SPEAKER_04]: This was probably been in the works for a while.
25:50
[SPEAKER_04]: They've been working on what this could possibly look like, and there's no doubt it's going to be cool.
25:56
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, especially the first time if you get to go there, you know, it's going to be a lot different than you've ever experienced football and Cleveland before.
26:06
[SPEAKER_04]: The downside, the other side of that that nobody, you know, nobody's going in a no until it gets there is, what's the take of price it's going to be?
26:16
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, teams cater to the corporate audience, they keep, or they cater to the high end people.
26:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's really what, you know, these new stadiums are all about is getting that.
26:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And you just have to wonder if the average fan is going to be able to afford to take it, especially if the team starts winning.
26:33
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, obviously if they're rolling through for in thirteen seasons, those November December games are going to be, you know, you're going to be able to pick them up for, you know, ten fifteen bucks.
26:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But I did a little bit, I was looking a little bit research and I found a story and this is from looking at twenty twenty three.
26:52
[SPEAKER_04]: The league-wide average ticket price for that season was a hundred and twenty-one dollars.
26:57
[SPEAKER_04]: In Las Vegas, which we've just talked about, New Stadium, New Don't Stadium, the average ticket price there is a hundred, almost a hundred and sixty-nine dollars.
27:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And the average cost for a family of four
27:09
[SPEAKER_04]: To go to an NFL team, this is League wide is six hundred and thirty-two dollars.
27:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So how many people in the Cleveland metropolitan Northeast Ohio region?
27:19
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a big ask for a lot of people.
27:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the net's just the effort.
27:23
[SPEAKER_04]: So obviously there's people below, but some of these, these tickets are going to be priced.
27:28
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to be priced pretty high.
27:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it's going to be interesting who they can get in there.
27:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It's also going to be interesting to see, you know, what kind of corporate money they can pull into this.
27:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I think we've all seen the story, the Cleveland's the smallest city that has three major professional sports teams.
27:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's always so much corporate money to go around.
27:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, the guardians, calves, bronzer, all go in after that same money for advertising, for those sweet rentals, for all that stuff.
27:59
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's, I mean, I guess, you know, they're going to be the newest one.
28:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's going to, um, you know, so obviously they're going to have a nice stop.
28:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But you know, it's going to be, if it turns into an arms race, you know, Dan Gilbert's not going to be shy about, you know, doing what he has to do.
28:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they just opened up, or they just announced that, um,
28:18
[SPEAKER_04]: is it pronounced comms, comms, that whatever that experience is, that he's, and that was originally going to be in Brooke Park.
28:26
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all that.
28:27
[SPEAKER_04]: In the original renderings, they were going to put that ever that fan theater experience at the new outside as part of the new stadium, but obviously he talked them and it, um, keeping it downtown.
28:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, the Dolans aren't going to be able to keep up, you know, when it comes to the money race, but I don't think Gilbert has any problem with
28:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, now he's not printing money the way the NFL is, but he's certainly not hurting from any either.
28:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
28:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
28:51
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's a very interesting point.
28:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I know ticket prices has been a big, you know, point of attention with a lot of fans, like, I can be all forward to go to games and all that kind of stuff, but
29:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I, I don't know.
29:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like these things do have a way of somehow balancing themselves out because at some point, you know, you can't just have an empty stadium, because your ticket prices are too.
29:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, these other NFL, you know, the Rams, the Raiders, the Vikings, like these other new dome stadiums, they've obviously they're able to get fans in there.
29:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that
29:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's pricey now if you want to take a family of four to a to an NFL game, even if it is just, you know, at Huntington Bank, you know, early in the season.
29:31
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be pricey usually.
29:33
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll see, we'll see how that goes, but it's an interesting thing to talk about.
29:40
[SPEAKER_03]: So out of the renderings, out of all the announcements, the features that the Browns have announced for this new stadium, which, like, what thing is your favorite?
29:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what are you the most excited about for this new stadium?
29:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I'm excited about things, I think it's more, I guess what it's kind of when you see how it comes out and how everything looks, you know, it's the, I guess the thing that the mode, I guess I'm not, it's not so much excitement, but it's more kind of like frustrated, it's the whole dog thing is, to me, I think it's played out.
30:14
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I was around when it became a thing, and that became organic.
30:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And once it became a marketing tool, when it became corporate, it's just kind of like, okay, we get it.
30:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I know they're going to try to replicate it.
30:29
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, it'll be a nice experience.
30:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess that's the best way to put it.
30:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess it'll depend on what it will have to wait and see what it looks like.
30:37
[SPEAKER_04]: when it's there.
30:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, certainly pulled weather days.
30:41
[SPEAKER_04]: It'll be nice for people to not have to sit out in the elements.
30:44
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I know a lot of people think that that's what football and Ohio is supposed to be about, but this team is not really, this home, this home field advantage of being pulled weather team hasn't really been the thing for a long, long time.
30:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's whatever really was.
30:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that'll probably be okay.
31:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know, to be determined.
31:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the home field advantage thing, that never held any water with me, really.
31:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And then a couple of years ago, when the New Orleans Saints, a southern team who play in a dome came up to Cleveland on the second courtest game in Cleveland Brown's history.
31:21
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like four degrees and the wincho was negative, whatever.
31:25
[SPEAKER_03]: They beat us.
31:26
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a home field advantage for the Browns in that situation.
31:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just, no, that's just not the way it works.
31:33
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're good, you build a home full advantage by being a good team.
31:36
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't matter if you're outdoor, you know, whatever.
31:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the Packers, you know, all the Packers get this outdoor, you know, home field advantage from the LMS and everything.
31:46
[SPEAKER_03]: They're freaking good.
31:47
[SPEAKER_03]: They're always a good team.
31:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that didn't do much good, you know, in the seventies and the eighties when they were, you know, not good.
31:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So it, you know, you put a good team out there and everything else kind of takes care of itself.
31:59
[SPEAKER_04]: It's funny how that works out that way.
32:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
32:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
32:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So as far as twenty twenty nine when the stadium, this is going to be kind of a maybe a silly off the wall question here.
32:15
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll the quarterback who starts for the Browns in twenty twenty nine in that new stadium.
32:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that quarterback currently on the Browns roster do you think?
32:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Probably not because we're talking.
32:28
[SPEAKER_04]: You know,
32:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, four years a long time, and just look, yeah, if we were having this conversation in, well, probably, twenty, twenty, the answer would be yes, because, you know, we had the rounds had Baker Mayfield, and that went south.
32:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, we could say, even if
32:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we, okay, let's step back.
32:53
[SPEAKER_04]: We know it's not going to be Joe Flacco.
32:55
[SPEAKER_04]: We can split it much guarantee that.
32:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'd be willing to guarantee it's not going to be Kenny Pickett.
33:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Whether it's Dylan Gabriel or shade or Sanders, that's hard, you know, that's a big ask because guys who get drafted in the third, fourth, fifth, sixth round, they don't have long careers and they generally don't become starters.
33:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I know it's going to be exciting to see what they can do here in the preseason.
33:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to say no.
33:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the quarterback for twenty twenty nine is probably not probably he's still playing in college.
33:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And let's hope let's hope he's like let's hope he's currently playing in college.
33:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, because you know, you don't want you don't want to have a rookie necessarily roll out there week one in twenty twenty nine, but you never know.
33:43
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, yeah.
33:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess it depends on the situation goes man.
33:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
33:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:50
[SPEAKER_03]: If you can get JD Daniels, but boy, those guys are really hard to come by playing at that level as a rookie right insane.
34:01
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35:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So obviously, that's a few years down the road type of question, but let's come back to this year, twenty twenty five week one, we'll talk to you here.
35:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's get your opinion on the quarterbacks.
35:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think, well, who do you think starts week one?
35:56
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you think, basically, how do you think the season shakes out for the quarterback position?
36:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
36:05
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to say it's either going to be flat or pick it.
36:10
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to start.
36:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to lean towards Flacco because he's even though he's forty, I think he's better than pick it.
36:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I think he obviously has an edge because he knows the offense.
36:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm also not sold on this kind of like storyline that the Browns are so in love with Pickett because he was the first quarterback they got in the off season.
36:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think, you know, they gave up DTR and a fifth round pick.
36:33
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no, I don't think that really signals this huge love affair with Kenny Pickett.
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I do think getting away from Pittsburgh.
36:43
[SPEAKER_04]: He got a year of washing that stench off of him with the eagles, and kind of like he was able to reset his mind a little bit from what was a bad situation.
36:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the thing.
36:50
[SPEAKER_04]: The bronze get in disorderly so they get a lot of criticism and a lot of national publicity for being the place where quarterback's go to die, but there are plenty other teams out in the NFL that you can say the same thing about, and Pittsburgh's definitely one of them.
37:05
[SPEAKER_04]: They have no clue how to evaluate quarterbacks or get an offensive system that works.
37:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think what they're hoping the plan is and I think this is probably a solid plan is
37:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You pick one of the veterans as the starter.
37:23
[SPEAKER_04]: You'd luck into trading that other person away to a team that needs a quarterback.
37:28
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't want anybody to ever get hurt, but somebody finds themselves in a situation.
37:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So you name flag of the starter, you trade pick it, or, and then you just, and there's no reason, I don't think.
37:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't see no reason to not, unless somebody comes and bulge you over with this offer for Gabriel or Sanders, there's no harm in keeping two rookies on the roster this year.
37:49
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you're not, they're not winning this year.
37:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they're going to, it's not, they're not intentionally losing.
37:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, because they don't intentionally lose, but I don't know that they'll be upset if they lose this year because it'll help their draft take.
38:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think what we're going to see in the preseason is very little a flaco.
38:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you're going to see, you know, that first preseason game, you'll probably see pick it play.
38:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe most of the first half.
38:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you'll see Gabriel in the third quarter Sanders on the fourth.
38:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the second preseason game, they'll flip it.
38:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Pick it'll play.
38:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the fourth preseason game, you might see Flacco for a series or two.
38:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you'll just see all Gabriel and Sanders and people are going to get excited because they're going to probably light it up against guys that are going to be at the league three or four days after that.
38:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, the one thing I think they have going for them, I don't know that anyone's going to be, if they start the season with both workies on the bench, I don't necessarily know that there's going to be a lot of people screaming and yelling about, they have to get them in there.
38:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are they not doing this?
38:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are they not doing that?
38:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So, they have a tough, first, four, five weeks of the season.
38:57
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like flaco, you ride flaco or pick it as long as you realistically can till eventually they start to fall apart and then you kind of see maybe the second half of the season You put one or the other rookies in the hard part you can't put both of them in because you can't be like okay We're gonna have a four game stretch with Gabriel and see what he does.
39:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, your bench.
39:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna four days stretch with Sanders.
39:17
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just gonna be tough to do
39:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So if they go with one, they're going to have to go with one and write them out as long as they possibly can.
39:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's going to be tough on the two of them, but it's going to be tough on the coaching staff to evaluate, but that's part of why they're all being paid, what they're being paid to do.
39:35
[SPEAKER_04]: They have to figure this out.
39:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, I think the, the, at least have some kind of realistic sense of what those two guys have as they prepare for next, you know, for next season.
39:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And having, you know, you hope Jacksonville has a bad season.
39:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody's kind of expecting the Browns have a bad season.
39:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So, if you're sitting there next April with picks one in three, picks two and four, you have a chance to fix whatever holes you need to fix.
40:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You just have to hope there's some quarterback so they're going to be available.
40:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And from, you know, early projections, it sounds like they, you know, they should, there should be some people that they're, they're going to be worth taking.
40:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I if that ends up being the way things go.
40:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe that's even just the mindset of the front office and everything as well.
40:25
[SPEAKER_03]: We we've got these two picks for next year.
40:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of fans are going to be I know a lot of fans already are upset about the third round pick used on doing Gabriel considering some of the other needs we had on the team and some of the other players that were on the board at the time.
40:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that was also why I feel the Browns will be more compelled to give Gabriel that opportunity ahead of should or Sanders even though I think
40:49
[SPEAKER_03]: lot of the fans are going to be pining to see should door first on the feel because he was touted as a first round talent throughout the process and all this kind of stuff.
40:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So do you feel like the Browns got themselves into more of a mess than they needed to with this quarterback situation or do you like them take in the multiple shots at the position?
41:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's fine.
41:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, as long as, you know, and they can't, they can't a hundred percent controlled and narrative, but the reality is that Sanders is a fifth round player.
41:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he was selecting the fifth round.
41:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody in the NFL came together and said, you know what?
41:23
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to pick this guy.
41:24
[SPEAKER_04]: There were plenty of teams and he had quarterbacks and they, and I don't think he's a distraction.
41:29
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I know there was a lot of, you know, stories coming out prior to the draft that, and I just think if you take away his last name, he's just another fifth round quarterback.
41:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just, I don't really don't think there's going to be that huge of an alchry or any kind of like huge thing.
41:47
[SPEAKER_04]: If he doesn't play this year or he plays and he struggles,
41:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And the biggest check mark against Gabriel seems to be his height.
41:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's experienced.
41:58
[SPEAKER_04]: He played at a high level.
42:00
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, everybody around here thinks the big ten is like the greatest thing in the frickin' world.
42:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And he went out and he lit it up last year.
42:08
[SPEAKER_04]: and you know he's big ten offense of player the year um he obviously must know something you know if if people if a higher state transfer to to be believed in the big ten is is super powerful you know conference that you have to have a monumental effort to succeed and then he did he checked that box um the problem is he's just short
42:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, you know, you know, how we love our short quarterbacks around here.
42:31
[SPEAKER_04]: People lose their mind about stuff.
42:33
[SPEAKER_04]: The first time he gets a ball, you know, ball battered down, paper going to be screaming that he doesn't know.
42:37
[SPEAKER_04]: But here's the whole thing.
42:38
[SPEAKER_04]: He's, I'm trying to make this analogy fit.
42:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I always think back to when the Browns had coesar and coesar, when he had to run, he could, he didn't look to do it, but he could move around the pockets and eat it to.
42:52
[SPEAKER_04]: But the thing is, it's not like he was running quarter.
42:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't Randall Cunningham, and then you get a knee injury, and all of a sudden you lose that aspect of your game, and you got to adjust.
43:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Cows are could never run, so he figured out a way to make it work.
43:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Gabriel has never been tall.
43:07
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not like he woke up the day after the draft, and he lost five inches of height.
43:11
[SPEAKER_04]: He's figured out how to do it.
43:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, whether you figure out how to do that at the NFL level,
43:16
[SPEAKER_04]: is a different thing.
43:16
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a whole different, you know, it's that whole funnel.
43:19
[SPEAKER_04]: You got hundreds of thousands of kids in high school, funneled down, two thousands of kids in college, funneled down to hundreds of people at the NFL level.
43:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Can he do that?
43:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Can he see over Duan Jones when he has to throw the ball?
43:30
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, can he see, but he made it work in college, so there should be a reasonable expectation he can figure it out.
43:38
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, at the pro level.
43:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll see, you know, how it goes in the preseason.
43:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't see Flacco making it through a Seventeen game season at this age.
43:51
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't know.
43:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if the team and the fans have the stomach for Seventeen games of Kenny Peckett.
43:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think at some point, you're going to see one of the works.
44:03
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think that's where
44:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Kind of thinking about trying to figure out which one to put out there and how long to put out there is probably going to be the bigger the bigger puzzle as opposed to when do we pull the trigger and put a rookie out there.
44:18
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be very tricky for sure.
44:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's going to be the main topic of conversation for Browns fans for entire season for sure.
44:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I agree with you.
44:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Joe Flacco hasn't had a full game, you know, a full season since twenty seventeen with the Ravens.
44:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, it's not going to happen now.
44:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just getting older.
44:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's just not who it is.
44:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to happen.
44:36
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't sustain it for that long.
44:38
[SPEAKER_03]: He turns the ball over too much.
44:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's going to be a natural progression from Joe to one of the rookies at some point.
44:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And I agree with you.
44:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been saying the same thing about doing Gabriel since we drafted them.
44:48
[SPEAKER_03]: People are saying, well, yeah, he can't play because of his height and all this stuff.
44:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not, maybe not in the NFL, but I've made the same argument to people that he's been that five, you know, ten and a half, five, eleven, whatever he is for a long time now and he's played at that high level at that height.
45:05
[SPEAKER_03]: So he can clearly navigate throwing windows.
45:08
[SPEAKER_03]: He clearly understands the offense.
45:09
[SPEAKER_03]: He can, you know, break a huddle.
45:11
[SPEAKER_03]: He can direct people with the line of scrimmage.
45:13
[SPEAKER_03]: He can process pre-snab like he's got all those things.
45:16
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got all the things the Browns said they wanted and they identified him as their guy and they got him.
45:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that he'll be in Blake, the other hosts on our show here, said multiple times.
45:27
[SPEAKER_03]: He will be given every chance to fail before they give Shador a higher chance to succeed.
45:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And the one thing that it'll be interesting too, and I haven't really seen any funny talk about this, is the fact that the Gabriel's left handed.
45:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And that, to me, that flips the entire offense.
45:47
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, all of a sudden now, Conklin, your blind side,
45:50
[SPEAKER_04]: versus drones.
45:51
[SPEAKER_04]: The ball comes out of his hand different.
45:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know, maybe it's not a big deal.
45:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's not a big deal for the receivers.
45:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's not a big deal for the line.
45:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's just, you know, you still have to block.
46:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You still have to run the route.
46:02
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's, it'll be interesting at some point during training camp in the preseason.
46:06
[SPEAKER_04]: If something comes out or somebody does ask the question of, do you have to operate differently if he's in the game versus one of a right-handed quarterback?
46:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe in twenty twenty five, it's not a big deal.
46:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess we could always go back to and I love that question.
46:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And I might go back and read some Atlanta Falcons things from last year because they went for right hand to Kirk Cousins to left hand in Michael Pentech's junior during the season.
46:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wonder if there were any other equals, you know, published by any Falcons writers saying, hey, the coaches have said this or there's a difference here.
46:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd be interested to see how that went for them.
46:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I guess the dolphins did the same thing going from to a tall there back up quarterback's last year from a lefty to righties.
46:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess there maybe there's a little precedent for that.
46:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and like I said, maybe it sounded a big, maybe it's size, a big of deal as, you know, you think it could be.
46:56
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it could, it could be the new left tackle, right tackle, you know, I play right tackle.
47:00
[SPEAKER_04]: It's super easy to play left tackle and then all the linemen come on say it's really not that simple, but fans think it's simple.
47:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So maybe it's, it's another case of that, or I'm over complicating it.
47:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very, very possible.
47:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Very possible.
47:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So I guess before we wrap this thing up here, you've already kind of alluded to, uh, not a strong belief that the Browns are going to be all that great this year.
47:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, what do you three lock it?
47:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, all right, so you look at it, you know, you split you split the division games.
47:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's no reason they can't they've they've been this is the thing and I wish I had thought of it as far as I would have got the exact numbers.
47:38
[SPEAKER_04]: If you just go back under Stephansky, they've been
47:42
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they own the Bengals when Baker was here.
47:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of just kind of tip the little way back in the Bengals side.
47:47
[SPEAKER_04]: They generally can split with Pittsburgh, no matter who's playing quarterback, especially at home.
47:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And they've been able to hang with Baltimore.
47:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So you split the division games.
47:57
[SPEAKER_04]: You kind of take advantage of those other last place teams, pick up a cheap one here and there and all of a sudden, you know, you're like a nine ten wins.
48:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Come on.
48:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we've been wondering if it's not going to be, you know, a lot of people think all two or three wins is the most.
48:14
[SPEAKER_03]: We have such a strong defense, and we've seen what Kevin now last year was a total joke with the Ken Dorsey stuff, but with with Kevin Stephansky running the show, he can get
48:25
[SPEAKER_03]: pretty good results out of just basic competent quarterback play like just absolute league average quarterback play with this defense with Jim Schwartz and everything like they could put up seven eight wins I think
48:40
[SPEAKER_03]: maybe push for a little more if things start to go well if they win some low games if a couple calls go their way kind of like they didn't twenty twenty three.
48:47
[SPEAKER_03]: But then again on the other side of things if things go against us or we have a couple penalties at the wrong time I mean the forty nine or make a field goal instead of this one at the end of a game.
48:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Those I mean football especially the NFL level it is truly a game of inches I mean I think the average margin of victory is.
49:04
[SPEAKER_03]: three and a half points or something like that.
49:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's pretty tight.
49:07
[SPEAKER_03]: It's tight and most games are one score games.
49:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So the Browns are going to have to find ways to win those close games if they want to have that five hundred or, you know, even maybe even above five hundred record this year.
49:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
49:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is, I mean, this is the time of year to be optimistic.
49:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Why, why be negative now?
49:24
[SPEAKER_04]: We got plenty of time from September to December to be negative.
49:28
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's the thing.
49:28
[SPEAKER_04]: If the defense can just, they don't have to go back to being like a top three defense.
49:33
[SPEAKER_04]: It is have to go back to not being an incompetent defense.
49:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, play well.
49:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But the offense has to do its part.
49:40
[SPEAKER_04]: All these screenouts, all these turnovers.
49:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it did wear down and kill the defense.
49:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But now you got a, if the offensive line can stay healthy.
49:50
[SPEAKER_04]: They can revert to having a pro power running game where it's predominantly running the ball.
49:55
[SPEAKER_04]: They have two rookie running backs.
49:57
[SPEAKER_04]: These guys should have no problem finding success.
50:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You just pound the ball on that, keep hold onto the ball, limit how many times you're posing offense has it, pass when you have to, and we're back to Marty ball in the mid-eighties.
50:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And that worked.
50:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, can that work into this NFL?
50:16
[SPEAKER_04]: probably not long term, can it work for a good chunk of this season?
50:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe, you know, just, you know, stop with the pick sexes, which, you know, I was going to say, you know, they don't have Winston anymore, but they got flacko back and, you know, so he's good at that too.
50:31
[SPEAKER_04]: But he's, at least he's better than winning.
50:33
[SPEAKER_04]: He's less irritating with Winston.
50:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but that's the thing.
50:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, control the ball and get, you know, just get everybody calm down.
50:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Take a couple of shots here and there.
50:41
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, Judy should be fine.
50:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the receivers have the potential to be better.
50:47
[SPEAKER_04]: then they were last year and a little better than people are expecting them to be, but a lot of that hinges on Tillman saying healthy and you know, showing that that production he had last year was on a fluke, but whether the other wide receiver is pan out or not, the auntie Johnson, some of these others like younger guys, that may not matter as much because you just took out the joke who you got
51:10
[SPEAKER_04]: the Titan they just drafted from Bowling Green, Phanna, whose name is, yep.
51:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So all of a sudden now those, and then they've been talking about Dylan Samson, how he can operate out as a slot, and how he can work, you know, catching the ball of the back field, and you got the kid from Kent State, who's, you know, getting some attention as a potential slot receiver.
51:31
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think they can build a functional offense.
51:34
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, out of those guys in the passing game might be better than people are expecting it to be.
51:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So you put all those things together and let's see what they can do.
51:42
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you walk out of September, oh and four, and as you're getting on the plane to go to London, that's going to be a little bit rough.
51:48
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, we'll see how it goes.
51:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I definitely have a lot more optimism me personally for just the week one opening game and Cleveland against the bangles because like you said, you know, I'm sure it wasn't even just under Baker.
52:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty much under Kevin since he's been here.
52:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I throw last year out because to me that was they they took Kevin out of the equation and you saw what happened.
52:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Kevin back leading the team leading the offense doing his thing I mean he is pretty much had the bangles number and you know in Cleveland like I just remember back in twenty twenty three like wasn't even it wasn't even a contest we we don't remember them from start to finish and you know with as long as we come out a training camp in preseason relatively healthy I don't see why our defense doesn't
52:29
[SPEAKER_03]: stay full the bangles off into enough, they always start out the gate every season slow anyway.
52:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And their defense isn't really much to speak of.
52:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So with Joe Flacco, if he is the starter, I think we can, I think there's a good chance we come out, you know, start the season one and
52:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I think so.
52:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I said, you know, like I said, this is the time for optimism, but there's there's some reality to that optimism too.
52:52
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like we said, you know, you're the one bangle game.
52:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I think, you know, do you have to throw the one out last year because they were starting, you know, Jeff Triscola or whatever, maybe that was two years ago.
53:02
[SPEAKER_04]: They're kind of all blends together.
53:04
[SPEAKER_04]: So, but no, they play them tough and we'll see, you know, we'll see what they can do.
53:13
[SPEAKER_03]: We will.
53:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
53:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Tom, I'll get you out of here.
53:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I really do appreciate you jumping on here.
53:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Doing the podcast with me, just breaking down some of the realities and the myths, all this stuff about the stadium and then just talking Browns football with me for a little bit here.
53:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So I appreciate that very much.
53:27
[SPEAKER_03]: If you guys want to follow Tom and his work head over to dogsbynature.com, look him up.
53:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you on Twitter or are you on X?
53:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
53:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
53:35
[SPEAKER_04]: What's your on your score?
53:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Tom underscore red, right, ADHD.
53:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so go check them out.
53:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Give them a follow.
53:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Great stuff here.
53:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you guys got any questions or anything more, drop them in the comments.
53:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we'll get Tom back on here at a later date just to continue to update us as this dating project moves along.
53:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But for Tom for myself, we will see you guys in the next episode.
53:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go Browns.
54:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to another episode of The Dogs Podcast.
54:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Make sure you subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Twitter at The Dogs Podcast.
54:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Get your thoughts on the show at The Dogs Podcast.com.
54:31
[SPEAKER_03]: This episode is sponsored by Southern New Hampshire University.
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