Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Deputy Opposition Leader Gerard Maley says proposed changes to anti-discrimination laws will provide greater scope for action if someone is offended, effectively attacking freedom of speech

Transcript

Deputy Opposition Leader Gerard Maley says proposed changes to anti-discrimination laws will provide greater scope for action if someone is offended, effectively attacking freedom of speech · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: As I mentioned during the open of this morning, we
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  Speaker 1: know that next week Parliament is sitting for the last
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  Speaker 1: time this year, and there's going to be two weeks
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  Speaker 1: of sittings and it's no doubt going to be an
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  Speaker 1: incredibly busy time as the Northern Territory government's not only
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  Speaker 1: well hoping to get the legislation across the line with
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  Speaker 1: the age of criminal responsibility raised, but also changes to
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  Speaker 1: the Anti Discrimination Act. Now, the changes that they're proposing
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  Speaker 1: to the Act have had well a bit less scrutiny
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  Speaker 1: I think over the last couple of weeks as we've
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  Speaker 1: had so many issues with crime. But the Deputy Leader
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  Speaker 1: of the Opposition, Jared Maylee, says that the government has
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  Speaker 1: made some significant changes since consultation took place which.
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  Speaker 2: Will impact each and every one of us.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Jared Maylee, the Deputy Opposition Leader, joins me on
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  Speaker 1: the line right now.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Jared.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Jared, you say that stakeholders don't know that a
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  Speaker 1: key exemption being edited in the draft is deleted all
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  Speaker 1: together in the actual bill and other well are the
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  Speaker 1: changes I should say to the Anti Discrimination Bill will
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  Speaker 1: have a massive impact on every Territori's what exactly are
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  Speaker 1: you talking about or what exactly are these changes?
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  Speaker 3: Well, Okatie, I suppose see the exemption has been taken out,
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  Speaker 3: so ultimately you can't discriminate on religious grounds, so there's
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  Speaker 3: an exemption of that saying that schools of faith are
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  Speaker 3: able to do that, and they've removed that exemption all together.
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  Speaker 4: We're the only jurisdiction in Australia.
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  Speaker 3: That doesn't have that juris exemption if this.
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  Speaker 4: Clause goes through or this bill go through.
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  Speaker 3: So essentially what's happened is that these schools of faith
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  Speaker 3: won't be able to proprioritize who they pickure their staff
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  Speaker 3: because at the moment there's an exemption, so they can
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  Speaker 3: employ a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew into
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  Speaker 3: their staff because that's how they work in their beliefs
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  Speaker 3: at that school. How it works in the Exposure Bill,
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  Speaker 3: which is what the Labor Government consulted with, there was
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  Speaker 3: just a small amendment to that clause bill that was
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  Speaker 3: in Parliament has been removed altogether, so that means it's
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  Speaker 3: taken out completely. So the Labor Government has been a
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  Speaker 3: bit dodging in relation to their consultation, because when they
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  Speaker 3: consulted with people it was in, but when the bill
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  Speaker 3: came to Parliament it was out.
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  Speaker 2: Do you reckon people are going to care all that much?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, one.
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  Speaker 1: Would suspect that it's you know that every school should
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  Speaker 1: be treating kids pretty fairly and should be actually treating
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  Speaker 1: you know, anybody that's applying for a job pretty fairly.
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  Speaker 4: It is.
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  Speaker 3: But when it comes to a school of faith, if
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  Speaker 3: these schools aren't just go to religious Bible readings or
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  Speaker 3: ri in the morning, they interweave it through the whole school.
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  Speaker 3: So ultimately it makes sense for the school to be
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  Speaker 3: able to have a choice whether they employ a teacher
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  Speaker 3: that isn't the same faith as that to be able
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  Speaker 3: to prioritize which teachers they employ for these schools, And
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  Speaker 3: ultimately it's about if you're going to send your child
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  Speaker 3: to those schools, you want to be able to make
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  Speaker 3: sure that your school is a school of faith. And
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  Speaker 3: this cause is removed completely and the government just haven't
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  Speaker 3: consulted in relation to it.
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  Speaker 1: But it's a situation as well though, like if it's
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  Speaker 1: part of the curriculum and look, you know, my kids
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  Speaker 1: aren't act Catholic schools or they're not at a school
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  Speaker 1: of faith. But if it's in the school curriculum and
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  Speaker 1: the way in which they you know, they do their
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  Speaker 1: religious education, and the way in which you have your
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  Speaker 1: school assemblies and all that kind of thing, wouldn't it
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  Speaker 1: be a situation where it doesn't sort of matter who.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it matters who your teachers are, but
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  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what their background is, because if they
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  Speaker 1: teach at that school, they're still going to have to
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  Speaker 1: be teaching the curriculum that the school's got.
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  Speaker 3: They still teach agriglum. But it's more, it's deeper than that.
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  Speaker 3: These schools are schools of faith, and if you're a
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  Speaker 3: Jurish school or Islam, it's ultimately a bigger picture. And
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  Speaker 3: these schools need to be able to prioritize because when
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  Speaker 3: you seen your kids to these schools, do you want
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  Speaker 3: If you want your children to go to a school
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  Speaker 3: of faith, you should be able to have confident that
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  Speaker 3: they're going to have that faith at that school. It
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  Speaker 3: just allows these schools to prioritize which teachers they am
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  Speaker 3: in relation to that. And like I said, this is
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  Speaker 3: the only jurisdiction if it passes, that won't have it
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  Speaker 3: in Australia and it really an attack on the right
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  Speaker 3: religious freedoms in Australia.
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  Speaker 1: Well look, and I'm sure that those of faith listening
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  Speaker 1: are probably going to be pretty fired up about that
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  Speaker 1: this morning. But Jared, one of the concerns that I've
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  Speaker 1: got is another claim that you'd made this new legislation
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  Speaker 1: or these new laws will mean that you can make
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  Speaker 1: it complaint on behalf of someone else even if they
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  Speaker 1: don't want a complaint made when it comes to being offended.
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  Speaker 2: What exactly does this mean?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean what they've done is they've actually broader
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  Speaker 3: the definition of offending. And if we look at Parliament
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  Speaker 3: for example, where you know that I've been removing parliament
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  Speaker 3: for an hour for saying competent and calling people.
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  Speaker 4: Those sorts of names.
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  Speaker 3: So if that's the benchmark that the parliament sits, So
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  Speaker 3: if you offend somebody or a group of people, now
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  Speaker 3: someone else can start proceedings against you're not the offended person.
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  Speaker 3: And in fact that group doesn't even need the consent
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  Speaker 3: of the offended person. They can just start a proceedings
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  Speaker 3: against a group in relation to say, for example, if
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  Speaker 3: there's a someone's in a church, or especially you, if
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  Speaker 3: you're on the radio and you're reading out some statements
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  Speaker 3: and it's offends somebody, it doesn't that person doesn't have
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  Speaker 3: to be offended.
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  Speaker 4: Just a group can now start proceedings against you.
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  Speaker 3: Or another example, if you're a walking past the church
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  Speaker 3: and you hear someone reading from the Bible, a group
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  Speaker 3: can now without the consent of the person who was
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  Speaker 3: offended or may have been offended, can start receding. Then
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  Speaker 3: really the punishment's going to be in the proceedings because
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  Speaker 3: that's going to get time to assuming it's going to
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  Speaker 3: be expensive, and you can bet your bottom dollar there'll
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  Speaker 3: be groups from in the state so that will be
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  Speaker 3: looking at this and they will start proceeding almost immediately
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  Speaker 3: in relation to this. So it's going to be not
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  Speaker 3: just people of faith. It's going to be affecting lots
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  Speaker 3: and lots of people.
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  Speaker 4: People who write columns and newspapers as.
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  Speaker 3: They offend somebody are now any group, any person can
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  Speaker 3: go and start proceedings against them in relations. Again, it's
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  Speaker 3: going to be time consuming, it's going to be expensive.
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  Speaker 4: So there's an attack on your right a freedom of speech.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and look I guess that's the point that I
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  Speaker 1: think is quite concerning is that you know, I don't
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  Speaker 1: know what some of those examples might be. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you've given a couple of there just then, So for
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  Speaker 1: me in terms of my job, you do think, well,
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  Speaker 1: hang on a sec. Is the freedom of speech going
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  Speaker 1: to be going to be changed?
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  Speaker 2: As you've pointed out?
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  Speaker 1: For someone writing a column, for example, if they say
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  Speaker 1: something that a group is then offended by, can that
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  Speaker 1: action be taken? But you know, are we talking here
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  Speaker 1: Jared that you know, let's say somebody is watching TV
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  Speaker 1: and they feel that something may have been offensive towards
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  Speaker 1: Chinese people. Even if I'm not Chinese, I could make
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  Speaker 1: a complaint on their behalf.
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  Speaker 3: It needs to be in public or heard by the public,
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  Speaker 3: so there are some limitations on it. But essentially the
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  Speaker 3: if you putting a newspaper column in or if you
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  Speaker 3: say something in your group, yes, someone will be able
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  Speaker 3: to start proceedings against you in relation to that.
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  Speaker 2: So how is this going to impact everyday people?
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  Speaker 1: I guess there is the big thing that people listening
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  Speaker 1: this morning are going to be wondering.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's going to have a massive effect on all
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  Speaker 3: sorts of things. You know, I'm not sure if the
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  Speaker 3: government's thought through the undertended consequences of the attack on
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  Speaker 3: the religious freedoms and the freedom of speech, because they're
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  Speaker 3: ingrained in our constitution.
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  Speaker 4: And yet this legislation seems to be.
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  Speaker 3: Able to allow people, and not just an unoffended person,
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  Speaker 3: anyone can go through and make a claim against them
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  Speaker 3: start proceedings in the commission, which I gay, like I said,
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  Speaker 3: will be time consuming and expensive, and ultimately Christian schools
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  Speaker 3: or radio stations or newspapers would be better off spending
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  Speaker 3: that money for their students or on new equipment in
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  Speaker 3: your radio stations other than fighting a battle into the
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  Speaker 3: court system.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I guess plenty of people listening this morning
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  Speaker 1: you're going to be thinking to themselves, well, that doesn't
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  Speaker 1: impact my life in any way, shape or form. So
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  Speaker 1: I'm not real worried about this legislation passing.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but ultimately, if you I'll read out, this is
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  Speaker 3: the actual the definition of offensive. A person must not
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  Speaker 3: do an act that is reasmly likely in all the
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  Speaker 3: circumstances to offend, insult, and humiliate, or intimidate another person.
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  Speaker 3: So that is very very broad, and that's a new
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  Speaker 3: section in this legislation. So if you do someone that's
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  Speaker 3: going to an end insult or humiliate someone, or intimidate
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  Speaker 3: another person, then that you're breaking the legislation which allow
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  Speaker 3: you to become a defendant some sort of proceedings and Jared.
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  Speaker 1: So what you're saying as well is that this wasn't
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  Speaker 1: included this part of the draft bill, wasn't included in
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  Speaker 1: the consultation that the government has done.
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  Speaker 3: No, no, this part was the partner wasn't was the
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  Speaker 3: section thirty seven eight. But this is the new part
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  Speaker 3: in the in the bill that wasn't in the old Act.
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  Speaker 4: So this is this is going.
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  Speaker 3: To come into legislation if it passes, where it wasn't
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  Speaker 3: in the previous and Discrimination Act. And it says that
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  Speaker 3: it doesn't apply done in private, but if you can
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  Speaker 3: hear or see it from a.
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  Speaker 4: Public place, that does apply.
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  Speaker 3: So if you're talking to your to your to your
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  Speaker 3: friends in your front and yard, which is your private property,
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  Speaker 3: and someone's walking past and they're on a public place,
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  Speaker 3: which is maybe the footpath does apply.
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  Speaker 4: So it's really really broad.
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  Speaker 3: To the circumstances where if you have feend somebody, it
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  Speaker 3: really has attack on your.
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  Speaker 4: Freedom of speeches. Freedom of speech.
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  Speaker 3: Because it can happen if someone in the public can
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  Speaker 3: hear you.
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  Speaker 1: So what steps are the opposition taking now, you know,
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  Speaker 1: to to ensure that the voices of those people that
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  Speaker 1: are concerned about these changes are going to be heard
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  Speaker 1: because presumably the government will use the numbers next week
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  Speaker 1: when Parliament is on and pass this legislation.
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  Speaker 4: Well, we can go.
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  Speaker 3: I did a calling group of faith based organizations who
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  Speaker 3: spoke to them, and we've asked them to go and
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  Speaker 3: talk to their organizations. Are we're trying to promote it
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  Speaker 3: on faithbook to let people know what's going on. Ultimately,
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  Speaker 3: this is about the government being sneaking and trying to
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  Speaker 3: put through some legislation. It's going to affect a lot
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  Speaker 3: of people, and we want to make sure that as
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  Speaker 3: many Territorians know what's going on as possible explain to
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  Speaker 3: it because this is quite a complicated legislation in relation
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  Speaker 3: to these four or five big changes, which is going
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  Speaker 3: to affect a lot of people.
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  Speaker 4: And the other question is.
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  Speaker 3: What wrongs are they trying to fix in relation to
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  Speaker 3: changing this. So we're trying to make sure as many
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  Speaker 3: people as possible know about this and not just faith
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  Speaker 3: based schools, but people who are in out there doing
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  Speaker 3: public speaking or journal journo's or the news, because it's
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  Speaker 3: going and affect a lot of people.
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  Speaker 4: Because it's not just a faith based organization.
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  Speaker 3: This is if you insult somebody, you're now in breach
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  Speaker 3: of legislation. Remember the definition of fends.
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  Speaker 4: And assault is really broad.
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  Speaker 3: If you go and look back to Parliament, look at
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  Speaker 3: some of the things that Parliament of people who have
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  Speaker 3: been offended by. So I'm just really worried that the
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  Speaker 3: unintended consequences.
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  Speaker 4: So maybe isn't intended consequence of.
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  Speaker 3: Live I don't know, but it's going to affect a
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  Speaker 3: lot of people who don't know about it.
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  Speaker 4: So our job is off anis to try.
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  Speaker 3: And talk about as much as possible, put it on
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  Speaker 3: our socials, get out there and talk as many people
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  Speaker 3: as we can, and try and let people know what's
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  Speaker 3: going on because this is a really major piece of legislation.
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  Speaker 3: It's going to affect many Territorians.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Jared Mayley, we always appreciate your time. I'll be
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  Speaker 1: interested to see if we get much feedback from the
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  Speaker 1: public on this one this morning, because look, I do
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  Speaker 1: think there are some concerns. Like you said, though, it
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  Speaker 1: is quite confusing and for people if they're hearing about
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  Speaker 1: this for the first time or they don't know a
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  Speaker 1: huge amount about it, it's quite a lot to take in.
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  Speaker 1: So we'll see what else we can talk, you know,
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  Speaker 1: whether anybody else wants to have a chat to us
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  Speaker 1: about it throughout the week as well, to try to
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  Speaker 1: make sure the territorians are aware.
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  Speaker 3: We don't want to are confused or want to some
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  Speaker 3: more information. They can reach out to any of the
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  Speaker 3: coop members. They can come and talk to me directly
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  Speaker 3: we're out and about.
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  Speaker 4: Or right across them.
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  Speaker 3: Lungerichy because I think it's really important that people understand
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  Speaker 3: at least a basic idea what's going on if it's
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  Speaker 3: going to affect them, and it's going to affect more
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  Speaker 3: people than the people think I reckon because it's just
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  Speaker 3: such a broad piece of legislation about discriminating against just
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  Speaker 3: the rights on the freedom of speech, the freedom of
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  Speaker 3: religion goes a lot a lot of people, and it's
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  Speaker 3: going to have some really really bad consequences if it
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  Speaker 3: go through in its current form.
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  Speaker 1: I mean fundamentally, though, shouldn't we as a community sort
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  Speaker 1: of be wanting to stamp out discrimination.
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  Speaker 3: Oh look, one.
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  Speaker 4: Hundred percent we should.
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  Speaker 3: Discrimination is a bad thing and it needs to be done,
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  Speaker 3: but we need to make sure that it's not overstepping
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  Speaker 3: the mark and and pinging on the rights of freedom
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  Speaker 3: or pinging on the rights of religion. We need to
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  Speaker 3: get that balance right. And I just think that this
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  Speaker 3: legislation as it stands is too far to one side
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  Speaker 3: because it's gone too far in relation to protecting people,
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  Speaker 3: because people do deserve to have the right to religion
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  Speaker 3: and people do deserve to have the right to freedom
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  Speaker 3: of speech. Well, we don't want to become a nanny
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  Speaker 3: state here. We want to be able to have territories
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  Speaker 3: and go and go to work, go ahead and do
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  Speaker 3: our family, go and do what we want to do,
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  Speaker 3: and not have to worry about breaking legislation.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Jeed Mayley, the Deputy Opposition leader, good to speak
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  Speaker 1: with you this morning.
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  Speaker 2: I appreciate your time
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  Speaker 3: Nor thank you, Thank you,