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Mini: Suicide Hotline (988) · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do what we Do. Welcome
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do Mini. I am
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: your host Abraham and I'm your host Shane. We are
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  Speaker 1: a psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and non human animals do. And on our mini Mondays,
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  Speaker 1: we release a mini that's mini because it's short in
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  Speaker 1: length and we just do a quick dive into a
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  Speaker 1: topic and then get out of there and then you
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  Speaker 1: go about the rest of your Monday. And that's a
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  Speaker 1: mini and as.
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  Speaker 2: Monday, yes, yes, yes, yes. And so today we are
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  Speaker 2: doing a mini on a topic that is big.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big topic in a mini episode. And
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  Speaker 1: if you're joining us for the first time, then welcome.
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  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy what you hear in this discussion.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And if you're a returning person, then welcome back. Thank
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: you for sticking with us. In either way. If you'd
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  Speaker 1: like to support us, then you can leave us a
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  Speaker 1: rating and a review like subscribe Tell a Friend on
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  Speaker 1: Patreon Tell a Friend. I'll talk more about this at
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the end of this episode. Go Tell a friend. We
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  Speaker 1: are talking about the suicide hotline in the United States,
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  Speaker 1: and so this is not an episode with a lot
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  Speaker 1: of jokes in it, as we sometimes like to do
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  Speaker 1: with our other discussions that are maybe a little less serious.
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  Speaker 1: But this is also kind of just recounting the history
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  Speaker 1: and then getting up to some of the more contemporary data.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's what I have to say as we
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  Speaker 1: get into the intros. Are we good to jump into it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. So there was a very recent study that reported
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  Speaker 1: a significant decrease in suicides in the United States following
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  Speaker 1: the implementation of a new version kind of a new
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  Speaker 1: number in twenty twenty two, a new version of this
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  Speaker 1: support line, and this highlights the importance. The reason that
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  Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about this is because with this
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  Speaker 1: support line, we felt like this really was a good
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  Speaker 1: example of the importance so prevention based strategies and interventions
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  Speaker 1: and why those are things that are worth investing in.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're going to briefly discuss the history of
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  Speaker 2: the suicide hotline in the US and the data from
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  Speaker 2: the most updated research to kind of really show its
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  Speaker 2: effectiveness and usefulness. So let's go all the way back
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  Speaker 2: to nineteen fifty eight the NIH award of the grant
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  Speaker 2: to Ed Schneidman, Norman Farborough Farborough, I believe so, and
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  Speaker 2: Robert Littman, allowing them to open the Los Angeles Suicide
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  Speaker 2: Prevention Center or LASPC, the first of it's kind in
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  Speaker 2: the country. Although prevention was in the name, it initially
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  Speaker 2: focused primarily on providing support to survivors of suicide attempts.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's set up like it was supposed to
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  Speaker 1: be prevention, and probably they tried to do some of that,
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  Speaker 1: but in practice it was mostly supporting people who had
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  Speaker 1: already done had some kind of attempt. But this gained
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  Speaker 1: popularity immediately and particularly among people seeking support, led to
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  Speaker 1: people calling the center QUI frequently and quite frequently after hours,
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  Speaker 1: and so they piloted a twenty four to seven three
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  Speaker 1: sixty five hotline for callers just a couple of years later,
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  Speaker 1: in like nineteen sixty one, and this again was it
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  Speaker 1: was utilized quite a bit by people who were seeking
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  Speaker 1: some kind of support, and this meant that it was
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  Speaker 1: quickly made into a permanent aspect of the center is
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  Speaker 1: twenty four to seven support, and they had permanent staff,
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  Speaker 1: mostly volunteers, but they were trained to respond to and
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  Speaker 1: provide support to people who were in crisis seeking some
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  Speaker 1: kind of help from this type of service right now.
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  Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty eight, ed Steinmann established the American Association
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  Speaker 2: of Suicidality, which became a global hub for suicide prevention
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  Speaker 2: and research. And by nineteen seventy one there were over
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  Speaker 2: two hundred crisis centers with at least one person dedicated
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  Speaker 2: to suicide prevention support.
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  Speaker 1: And often more than that. And that was now around
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  Speaker 1: the country. So by nineteen sixty eight we had some
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  Speaker 1: kind of crisis support all around the United States. And
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  Speaker 1: so that's that's how it went. This again, this is
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  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. That's how it went for quite some time.
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  Speaker 1: But these were all disparate centers. They kind of were
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  Speaker 1: operating with their own budgets, with their own people, with
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  Speaker 1: their own messaging. It definitely over time it was known
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  Speaker 1: that this needed to be more cohesive, and so in
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  Speaker 1: two thousand and five, a grant provided the means to
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  Speaker 1: establish a national, fully national in the United States suicide
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  Speaker 1: prevention hotline with a toll free eight hundred number, and
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  Speaker 1: that number was one eight hundred two seven three talk
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  Speaker 1: or eight two five five, So one eight hundred two
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  Speaker 1: seven three eight two fivey five and people could call
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  Speaker 1: that line from anywhere in the United States to receive
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  Speaker 1: some kind of support, and of course they wanted to
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  Speaker 1: know is this working, do we need to do anything differently,
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  Speaker 1: And so there were a bunch of studies that started
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  Speaker 1: evaluating this pretty early on. That grant started in two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and five. It was actually awarded in two thousand
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  Speaker 1: and four, but the first like center actually or the
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  Speaker 1: call line, actually opened in January two thousand and five.
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  Speaker 1: But there were studies that were published then in two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and seven and some more in twenty thirteen. And
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  Speaker 1: what they did show is that with the implementation of
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  Speaker 1: this hotline, there was a decrease in the rate of
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  Speaker 1: suicides in some states following the implementation of that suicide
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  Speaker 1: hotline number right.
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  Speaker 2: However, there was an issue with staff burnout, as you
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  Speaker 2: can imagine, in adequate training to provide support, and as
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  Speaker 2: services expanded, quality control issues led to variable outcomes and
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  Speaker 2: somewhat decreased effectiveness. So you can see that like, there's
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  Speaker 2: there's an issue of scaling here for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they definitely had trouble ensuring that it was
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  Speaker 1: working the way it was intended. And so pause here
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  Speaker 1: to insert very colorful ad Yeah, Okay, we're back. We've
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  Speaker 1: been discussing sort of the history of the hotline here
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  Speaker 1: and the fact that as this became a national hotline,
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  Speaker 1: they started running into some quality control issues. But they're
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  Speaker 1: tracking all the data of suicides all this time, and
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  Speaker 1: so if you look back and you look at the
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  Speaker 1: graph and you're looking at the trends in data, one
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  Speaker 1: thing you'll need to know looking at this is that
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  Speaker 1: the population is rising, but also the rates of suicides
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  Speaker 1: are rising. Even in correspondence with the population, it is
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  Speaker 1: like per one hundred thousand people, the rates are still
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  Speaker 1: on the rise. And in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, the
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  Speaker 1: United States saw one of the highest jumps ever in
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  Speaker 1: recorded history in the rates of suicide among adolescents and
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  Speaker 1: young adults. What happened in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen in.
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  Speaker 2: The United States, MM, we've got there's a very particular
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  Speaker 2: thing that happened.
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  Speaker 1: So there's one very particular thing that happened. And I
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  Speaker 1: actually phrased this question differently when I was reporting this
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  Speaker 1: to someone else. I said, when do you think the
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  Speaker 1: largest jump in suicides among adolescents and young adults happen?
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  Speaker 1: And they said twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, I want to
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  Speaker 1: know why Donald Trump, and I'm going to leave it
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  Speaker 1: at that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to unpack that too, because
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  Speaker 2: that's actually like, yeah, it's a whole thing. So several
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  Speaker 2: more studies later, the FCC recommended in twenty nineteen to
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  Speaker 2: change the hotline number to an easy to remember nine
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  Speaker 2: to eighty eight. With this change came special services provided
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  Speaker 2: veterans Spanish speakers, video phone calls for ASL speakers, and
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  Speaker 2: special support for LGBTQ plus youth. So more specialized services
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  Speaker 2: means more people are getting help.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could call the nine eight eight number and
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  Speaker 1: you had the option to get through to just a
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  Speaker 1: crisis support person who is there for prevention for suicide,
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  Speaker 1: but you might specifically. You were also given the option
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  Speaker 1: to receive specific support if you were a veteran spoke
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  Speaker 1: Spanish needed ASL, or were LGBTUI plus youth. Following the
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  Speaker 1: change to that nine to eight eight number from the
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  Speaker 1: previous number, and from this sort of revamp of the system,
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  Speaker 1: there was now a significant decrease in the rates of
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  Speaker 1: suicide among young adults and adolescents. And this is this
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  Speaker 1: recent study, and this compiled all available data from twenty
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  Speaker 1: ten to twenty twenty four, and they were looking at
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  Speaker 1: the trends in the data and what would have been
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  Speaker 1: predicted in the trends if things had continued on the
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  Speaker 1: way that they went. And when they implemented the nine
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  Speaker 1: to eight to eight number, we saw an immediate eighteen
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  Speaker 1: percent decrease in states with the highest impact and an
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  Speaker 1: eleven percent decrease in the states with the lowest impact,
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  Speaker 1: meaning that there was a decrease across the board. Some
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  Speaker 1: states it was more powerful than others, but it was
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  Speaker 1: still a decrease, which was the opposite of what it
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  Speaker 1: had been, which was steadily increasing right now.
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  Speaker 2: To calculate this, they extrapolated the trends in the data
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  Speaker 2: and the variability to create a range of expected deaths
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  Speaker 2: and range of uncertainty, even controlling for uncertainty as was
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  Speaker 2: created by the pandemic and other contextual variables, and all
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  Speaker 2: that rates of suicides are still below the lowest range
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  Speaker 2: of uncertainties. So this number the suicide hotline was so
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  Speaker 2: effective it reduced it below the lowest ranges.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what they would have expected as like the
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  Speaker 1: lowest that it would have gone it was still below that,
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  Speaker 1: which again just shows like this seemed to be really effective.
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  Speaker 1: Now can't necessarily always lay to the feet of this
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  Speaker 1: or like be able to attribute it to this this line,
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  Speaker 1: But we'll get to that in a second. Okay, So,
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  Speaker 1: as we said, this was twenty twenty two is when
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  Speaker 1: the change to nine eight eight went into place. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not sure if we said that clearly, but that's that's
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  Speaker 1: when it changed to nine eight eight. It was actually
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  Speaker 1: commissioned in twenty nineteen. The actual effect when in twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty two, and then three years later, in the summer
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  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five, the Trump administration cut all funding
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  Speaker 1: to the specialized support for LGBTQI plus youth, So that
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  Speaker 1: was in twenty twenty five. The numbers in this study
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  Speaker 1: stop at twenty twenty four. Also, we transitioned back to
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  Speaker 1: the Trump administration in twenty twenty five, so there will
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  Speaker 1: likely be different numbers once we're a year out from that.
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  Speaker 1: Their hate crimes, but up through twenty twenty four, we
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  Speaker 1: had seen a significant decrease up until that point.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now it's it's unclear how much to attribute the
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  Speaker 2: rates of suicide to the hotline as many people's surveyed
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  Speaker 2: in a general poll showed that a relatively small number
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  Speaker 2: of people were aware of the program, although we also
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  Speaker 2: can't rule out the people who were in crises googled
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  Speaker 2: the number and found it that way, So people might
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  Speaker 2: not have known, but they may have found it as
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  Speaker 2: a result of a quick Google or somebody sharing the
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  Speaker 2: number or something like that.
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  Speaker 1: And I got to imagine that at least for some people,
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  Speaker 1: they if they had googled then seen this long ten
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  Speaker 1: digit number versus they say, googled and saw nine eight eight,
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  Speaker 1: they were just able to quickly hop on the phone
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  Speaker 1: and make that call. As people like, oh, and each
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  Speaker 1: number one hundred and then, you know, trying to remember
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  Speaker 1: the whole thing.
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  Speaker 2: And there's an opportunity to text too, so you don't
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  Speaker 2: have to call, you can also text it.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. That is Another feature that was added is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: that you can you can just send a text to
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  Speaker 1: that number and also get support, so huge, huge advantage.
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  Speaker 1: But either way, this is one piece of evidence that
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: supports the importance of prevention strategies and how significantly impactful
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  Speaker 1: they can be, particularly when you think the stakes are
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  Speaker 1: as high as life and death, like you just don't
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  Speaker 1: have margin for error here where it's like we'll just
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: wait till the bad thing happens and then try and
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  Speaker 1: do something about it, which was before that nineteen fifty
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  Speaker 1: eight hotline was established in LA. That was kind of
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: how they tried to navigate it was like put laws
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  Speaker 1: against it. I'm like, what are you going to do
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  Speaker 1: against someone who like, what's your consequence for your law
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: for someone who dies by suicide? Like that's just silly.
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  Speaker 1: So anyway, point being that they've moved to this prevention
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  Speaker 1: strategy and that's really the best way to handle this
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  Speaker 1: and just a good example of why those strategies are
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  Speaker 1: such an important way that we should be trying to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: navigate any kind of mental health issue or crisis is
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  Speaker 1: by focusing our money and our time on prevention.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Now, unfortunately Trump and his Nazi war criminal cabinet
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  Speaker 2: are likely responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: of youth or thousands, hundreds of no I mean, okay, yeah, well,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: to be fair with this war, like, yeah, they're probably
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you know, so hundreds or thousands of youths is what
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  Speaker 2: I meant to say, and will for sure be responsible
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  Speaker 2: for more. Would their policies would their stripping of services,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: like desperately needed services for people that are not white men.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: They're gonna hurt and continue to hurt a lot of people,
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  Speaker 2: straight white men, them straight white men specifically. And this
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  Speaker 2: is just one of those examples of a policy that
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: is just explicitly aimed to harm.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I mean you could you could sort
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: of say, like, you know, the way I was thinking
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: about this, because someone might make the argument like, well,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: they just took away something that didn't exist before anyway,
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  Speaker 1: And I'm like, what what do you call it? When
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: you have something that would save lives that exists and
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: is already there, and then you take that thing away
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  Speaker 1: and then people die because you took that thing away,
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  Speaker 1: I would say that makes you culpable. Yeah, like fully culpable.
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  Speaker 1: It should be culpable in the eyes of the law.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: It's certainly culpable morally speaking. Yeah, And so like I'd
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  Speaker 1: say few to those people. Yeah, but at the very least,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: for now, the support line does seem to be helping.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: And just of course, to end this, I want to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: make sure that we say very clearly if you or
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: someone you know are experiencing or having these thoughts and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: need support, call or text nine to eight eight to
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: receive some help and support with that. Suicide is the
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  Speaker 1: worst and I want all the support for people who
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: need it.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely all right.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's all we have to say about this.
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  Speaker 1: If you would like to tell us your thoughts on
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the suicide hotline or this thing that you can email
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: us directly by reaching us at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: or reach us on the social media platforms and we
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: do look forward to hearing from you. As I said,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: you can support us by leaving us a rating and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: review like subscribe, tell a friend, and if you join
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: us on Patreon then I will read your name at
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the end of our full length discussions. Is a big
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: thank you to the people who have supported us over there,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and also there's some other content you can on Patreon
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: for being a cool person who helps us do our
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: thing and go tell a friend. So I think that
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is what i'd say. Oh, thank you to my team
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: of people writing and fact checking from Shane and myself.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you for recording with me today.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Shane, Hey anytime.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our audio
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: engineer Emperor, Imperial Inquisitor.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Our engineer.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Forever djor forever. That is a funny sentence, is justin,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: thank you, justin? All right? But I think that we
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: have to say about this. Is there anything that I'm
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: mester you'd like to add before we say goodbyes?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: No, I think it covers it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: We hit our mini length on the money. Thank you
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: all for listening. This is Abraham and it is Shane.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Why we Do what we do? Mini is out.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Why We Do what We Do.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: going to WWD WWD.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Podcast dot com.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: day