Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Ten Years Later: An Unexpected Outcome For Her Child Who Struggled with Addiction: A Family Story

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Ten Years Later: An Unexpected Outcome For Her Child Who Struggled with Addiction: A Family Story · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:01
  Roxanne: Somewhere in there, you know who your child is, you know, your the real child, not the child that has taken this face of substance use and awful language and defense with the awful words to people that he loves.
• 0:19
  Roxanne: And all this is, it's just that, that hope.
• 0:23
  Roxanne: And when you're in crisis, you don't, you don't think that's ever, I.
• 0:28
  Roxanne: Gonna happen, ever gonna come.
• 0:40
  Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast and community created specifically for parents of teens and young adults who are misusing substances and struggling with mental health.
• 0:51
  Brenda: I'm Brenda Zane, and I have been in your shoes.
• 0:54
  Brenda: With a child who is addicted to a high risk lifestyle and all the bad things that came with it, listen every week to gain clarity and understanding, learn new skills and best of all, experience, real hope for what might feel like a helpless situation.
• 1:11
  Brenda: We want you to not just survive this experience.
• 1:14
  Brenda: But potentially find unexpected growth and meaning through it.
• 1:19
  Brenda: You are not doing this alone anymore, and we're so glad you're here.
• 1:24
  Brenda: After the episode, hop over to Hope Dream community.org for more resources.
• 1:30
  Brenda: Hello, friend.
• 1:31
  Brenda: Thanks for coming and hanging out with me today.
• 1:33
  Brenda: It's always good to spend a little time together and of course I like to check in with you to make sure that you're breathing if you haven't taken a few.
• 1:42
  Brenda: Deep breaths today.
• 1:44
  Brenda: This would be a great time.
• 1:45
  Brenda: I also like to make sure you've had some water.
• 1:49
  Brenda: You know the basics, and I hope that you're working on taking really good care of yourself because I know how hard it is to do that.
• 1:57
  Brenda: Trust me, it feels like the last thing you should be doing right now.
• 2:02
  Brenda: And interestingly, it's probably the thing that can have the biggest impact on your situation today.
• 2:10
  Brenda: So.
• 2:10
  Brenda: Just consider it.
• 2:12
  Brenda: I was so excited to record today's Hope's Dream family story because this mom, after 10 long years on the rollercoaster ride, has finally been able to unbuckle her seatbelt and gather her things around her.
• 2:29
  Brenda: I was excited to share her full circle story with you.
• 2:32
  Brenda: And then while we were talking, I realized that I was having a full circle moment.
• 2:37
  Brenda: So it was a little inception, like, if you know what I mean.
• 2:42
  Brenda: Barbara, who you'll hear from in just a minute, is what we call in the stream a warrior mom.
• 2:49
  Brenda: Warrior moms in our club are moms of young adults who've been on the rollercoaster ride for I would say an average of probably eight to 10 years or more.
• 3:00
  Brenda: They have been there, done that, and are complete rock stars.
• 3:04
  Brenda: We even have veteran warrior moms who lead that group and have a special call for them every month, which is super cool.
• 3:12
  Brenda: So how this became a full circle story inside a full circle story is that Barbara's son has recently started working at the residential treatment program that he went to when he was 15.
• 3:25
  Brenda: And trust me when I say she did not ever think that would happen.
• 3:30
  Brenda: Interestingly, it is the same treatment program my son went to and then returned to work at years after finding recovery.
• 3:40
  Brenda: But also Barbara reminded me that she found me and then the stream through a meditation I have on the Insight timer app called A Gift of Sleep for Parents of Addicted Children.
• 3:54
  Brenda: Which you can find if you download the Insight Timer app.
• 3:57
  Brenda: I'll also put it in the show notes.
• 4:00
  Brenda: And that meditation came to me years ago.
• 4:03
  Brenda: I don't even know how many years ago, because I spent so many nights laying awake, worried about my son, and it finally got to the point where I had to do something because I was basically a walking zombie.
• 4:18
  Brenda: I'd had these different images floating through my mind and then.
• 4:22
  Brenda: The words came and I wrote it down, and it became my way of handing over the night shift so that I could get some rest.
• 4:32
  Brenda: And when I thought about how many moms were probably in need of the same thing, I considered publishing it on Insight Timer, which I had been using for a few years.
• 4:44
  Brenda: But I didn't do that for a long time because I thought.
• 4:48
  Brenda: Who am I to publish a meditation?
• 4:51
  Brenda: I am not a meditation teacher who does that, but over time I worked with my therapist on my inner bully and decided to publish it, and that's how Barbara found me and how she has now been a treasured member of the Stream community for almost four years.
• 5:10
  Brenda: Wild.
• 5:11
  Brenda: Right.
• 5:12
  Brenda: So I guess my point in telling you this is if you have something that you think the world needs, please put it into the world.
• 5:21
  Brenda: Please don't talk yourself out of it thinking you are not qualified or you're not specialized enough, or whatever story it is you tell yourself if you think the world or even one person in the world needs it, they do.
• 5:38
  Brenda: It's your responsibility to share your gifts.
• 5:42
  Brenda: Okay, so now back to Barbara.
• 5:44
  Brenda: You're going to hear how she survived this 10 year ride.
• 5:48
  Brenda: What she now knows was a leading contributor to her son starting to use marijuana at the age of 12.
• 5:55
  Brenda: Her go-to mantra, which I absolutely love and I'm considering stealing it, and the number one thing that helped get her and her husband through this experience with their only son.
• 6:07
  Brenda: And it is something no one has ever told me before.
• 6:10
  Brenda: She shares the experience of living in Asheville, North Carolina when Tropical Storm Helene hit, and the surprising impact that it had on her son.
• 6:20
  Brenda: It is a beautiful conversation with a beautiful mom.
• 6:25
  Brenda: Grab your dog or hop in the car or do whatever you do with me in your ears, and let's jump in.
• 6:47
  Brenda: Hey Barbara, it's so good to be with you today.
• 6:50
  Brenda: Thanks for joining me on a a Hope Stream Family story.
• 6:55
  Brenda: These are so special.
• 6:56
  Roxanne: Thank you.
• 6:58
  Brenda: So we got to meet at a a local meetup that we do.
• 7:03
  Brenda: So, you know, we're, we're an online community, but we, uh, travel around sometimes and, and hook up with each other in wonderful little cafes.
• 7:11
  Brenda: And so I got to give you a hug and have some.
• 7:14
  Brenda: Brunch with you, which was amazing, and we have some similarities because our boys went to the same program in Utah and kind of did the spin cycle over and over and over.
• 7:28
  Brenda: So I'm excited to talk with you and hear a little bit more of your story.
• 7:33
  Brenda: A little bit more about you and and how you coped.
• 7:36
  Brenda: So why don't you start wherever you're comfortable, kind of how this all came to be.
• 7:41
  Brenda: Like, when did you start realizing something was a little bit
• 7:45
  Roxanne: off?
• 7:46
  Roxanne: When I tell the story fresh, I have to start in elementary school because my son has dyslexia and A DHD and some other learning issues or differences and.
• 8:03
  Roxanne: One thing that came out later the last program he was in, uh, in Wilmington, we did a really intensive family session and I had thought of the learning stuff as the issue that kinda started all, but he said that he got the message early on that something was wrong with him.
• 8:24
  Brenda: Hmm.
• 8:25
  Roxanne: And I, we had never really thought of it that way, you know, because we had so much support, it was coming from, you know, all directions the best that we could support him.
• 8:35
  Roxanne: Some of this is hindsight, because we didn't know at 12, he's, when he starts smoking pot and sneaking out and all this.
• 8:44
  Roxanne: It's that same thing.
• 8:45
  Roxanne: He went from school to school.
• 8:47
  Roxanne: He was overwhelmed in larger schools.
• 8:51
  Roxanne: And 12 and 13, 14 is when it started getting worse.
• 8:55
  Roxanne: And at, at one point in those, we knew he was starting to use substances and stuff, but I think at 15, is that like perfect bomb and combination of.
• 9:08
  Roxanne: Substance use.
• 9:10
  Roxanne: Anger was huge part of it.
• 9:13
  Roxanne: Anger, just developing the whole friend thing.
• 9:19
  Roxanne: Parents, he's, he is an only child.
• 9:22
  Roxanne: It was just a combination of all that, but the substance use and.
• 9:29
  Roxanne: Unpredictability of it.
• 9:32
  Roxanne: We knew that we, we had to take some action to save his life or keep him outta jail.
• 9:39
  Roxanne: You know, somehow through this whole thing, he's, he was never arrested or anything, but we knew that was coming, you know?
• 9:48
  Roxanne: Right.
• 9:48
  Roxanne: So.
• 9:50
  Roxanne: First you can imagine all that goes with the, the learning thing and having to relearn how to read dyslexic dyslexia.
• 10:00
  Roxanne: I don't know.
• 10:00
  Roxanne: They, they do really well until about third grade and then it starts getting harder and they've come up with, the child has done all these coping thing, mechanism for themselves to try to find their way, and then it just kind of falls apart, but.
• 10:18
  Roxanne: When he was 15, it was, that's when the disaster, the first disaster of many happened and that he went to wilderness in Utah and from there into the therapeutic boarding school.
• 10:34
  Roxanne: But.
• 10:35
  Roxanne: I think the worst day of my life ever, he, it was the week before his spring break of fourth grade.
• 10:41
  Roxanne: He was in the psychiatric unit at the peds hospital.
• 10:46
  Roxanne: And it's just heartbreaking to see that and to experience that and a, as he's gotten older.
• 10:55
  Roxanne: Today is his birthday he's 22 today.
• 10:59
  Roxanne: And the depression and some of those mental health issues that went along with this process are not an issue anymore.
• 11:09
  Roxanne: I mean, no more than a normal 22-year-old, he has stayed with the same.
• 11:15
  Roxanne: Therapist since 15 at Crossroads.
• 11:19
  Roxanne: Interesting, isn't it Even in crisis?
• 11:23
  Roxanne: I mean, when he was able to, outside of a program, he stayed with this therapist and he sees him, he's seen him every day, every Tuesday at four o'clock for years, and now he sees him face to face.
• 11:39
  Roxanne: He drives about an hour on Tuesdays, which is also good for him, therapeutic, you know, through the canyon and that kinda keeps all that in check.
• 11:48
  Roxanne: I think what he is very aware that he needs that support.
• 11:54
  Roxanne: But we finally found someone that would treat his A DHD, that she's a younger psychiatrist and she understands why all this happens and why.
• 12:06
  Roxanne: Learning and A DHD and all that, you know, untreated puts.
• 12:10
  Roxanne: Puts a child at high risk for ubstance use.
• 12:14
  Roxanne: They're just trying to make sense of it all, you know?
• 12:16
  Brenda: Yes.
• 12:17
  Roxanne: But when we agreed to do this interview, I started thinking about all the programs, you know, so it's like, uh, wilderness Therapeutic Boarding School that took up like a year and a half, came home, six months decline back into.
• 12:37
  Roxanne: Another residential program for 90 days did not go well.
• 12:44
  Roxanne: He was in a great program here.
• 12:48
  Roxanne: We learned woodworking.
• 12:49
  Roxanne: It's like a sober workplace thing that did not last.
• 12:53
  Roxanne: I mean, we have that experience of so many things that work and don't work, or they work, you know, in the, I think in the beginning we just want.
• 13:04
  Roxanne: Wilderness is to stop everything and then to try to do that about face.
• 13:12
  Roxanne: And it, it really, I, I think for us it was that we knew he was safe for that year.
• 13:21
  Roxanne: The unpredictability of these issues, it can be terrifying.
• 13:25
  Roxanne: I mean, I'm finally not worried.
• 13:29
  Roxanne: Every night that he is gonna die.
• 13:31
  Roxanne: You know?
• 13:32
  Brenda: Yes.
• 13:33
  Roxanne: That's a mom's fear.
• 13:35
  Roxanne: I do know that I process this whole thing differently than my husband.
• 13:40
  Roxanne: I think moms just feel it differently.
• 13:44
  Roxanne: I don't know.
• 13:45
  Roxanne: And, and maybe dads just keep it more in their brain or something, but.
• 13:51
  Roxanne: Think it was more of a rational thing for him.
• 13:54
  Roxanne: We know he is safe or in crisis, we gotta figure out the next thing to do.
• 13:59
  Roxanne: You know, learn as much as you can and try to make the best decision.
• 14:04
  Roxanne: But there's, there's really, all these kids are so different, you know, and their experiences are different and there's no.
• 14:14
  Roxanne: One path.
• 14:16
  Roxanne: You know, there's no brochure that spells it all out for you.
• 14:20
  Roxanne: There definitely is not a brochure.
• 14:23
  Roxanne: I so wish there
• 14:24
  Brenda: was.
• 14:24
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  Roxanne: I think that's why it, you know, it, it, it, it's important to hear other people's experiences because then you, you pick out the parts that you can identify and you can also.
• 14:37
  Roxanne: Some of the support groups I've been in, you're like, oh wow.
• 14:41
  Roxanne: You know, we have nothing like this, you know, and
• 14:45
  Brenda: Right.
• 14:46
  Brenda: Ugh.
• 14:46
  Brenda: It can give you perspective for sure.
• 14:49
  Brenda: I, I remember this, the same experience and going to some meetings and thinking, oh, well, it was twofold.
• 14:57
  Brenda: It was one like, okay, I'm glad we're not there.
• 15:00
  Brenda: But then also I would think.
• 15:03
  Brenda: We could be, this could happen.
• 15:05
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 15:05
  Brenda: This could happen when, when he was struggling so much with the learning and that's, it's so common, you know, the A DHD, dyslexia, these learning issues, I think are such a link to the substance use because, you know, as we talk about all the time in, in our community.
• 15:25
  Brenda: It makes sense.
• 15:26
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 15:27
  Brenda: Right.
• 15:27
  Brenda: It makes total sense that they would reach out for marijuana or anything that would quiet the brain, make them not feel so uncomfortable in their own skin.
• 15:38
  Brenda: Did you know when, when you learned about the dyslexia and A DHD and other learning issues.
• 15:45
  Brenda: Did you, had you heard anything at that point that that could potentially lead to substance use or No way at all?
• 15:52
  Brenda: Did you have any history with addiction or substance use?
• 15:56
  Brenda: That was
• 15:56
  Roxanne: the other thing.
• 15:57
  Roxanne: We didn't grow up that way either.
• 16:00
  Roxanne: You know, I mean, you know, people and stuff, but it was totally uncharted territory for us.
• 16:07
  Roxanne: Right.
• 16:07
  Roxanne: Mean we just didn't know what to do.
• 16:09
  Roxanne: And I think, uh, at that.
• 16:12
  Roxanne: Point in time, we were so focused on the learning and the dyslexia and getting the right treatments and stuff, which a lot of times you have to fight for.
• 16:22
  Roxanne: So you're trying to fight for, and you're frustrated and all this.
• 16:25
  Roxanne: But no, I mean, we did not know.
• 16:28
  Brenda: So you, you were just blindsided.
• 16:30
  Brenda: And I think that's true of many families.
• 16:34
  Brenda: Uh, I think there is sort of this myth that, well, you know, it must run in the family.
• 16:39
  Brenda: And I don't think that's necessarily always true because I think these kids, the, the level of access that they have today to substances is just.
• 16:49
  Brenda: You know, shockingly easy.
• 16:52
  Brenda: I remember my son telling me at one point, oh, it'd be way easier to get weed at school than an aspirin.
• 16:57
  Brenda: Like mm-hmm.
• 16:58
  Brenda: I would have to go to the school nurse and she would have to fill out a form and, you know, whatever to give me a, an ibuprofen, but I can go any, you know, go in the bathroom and I can get weed instantly.
• 17:10
  Brenda: So when you were going through this, so it was, sounds like if he was around 12 when it started and he's 22 now.
• 17:18
  Brenda: You've been at this for a while.
• 17:19
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 17:20
  Brenda: This is, this is not a new, a new thing for you.
• 17:23
  Brenda: What, what was it like dealing with your friends and family members, you know, as you're going through this?
• 17:30
  Brenda: You said he's an only child, so you didn't even have anything to compare this to.
• 17:34
  Brenda: No.
• 17:35
  Brenda: So I have to imagine it was just torture, but what, what was going on with like friends and family in that situation?
• 17:42
  Roxanne: E, everybody's all in until something like this happens.
• 17:45
  Roxanne: And then all these other parents just scatter.
• 17:47
  Roxanne: But like aunts, you know, it can be really isolating, but at the same time, you find out who your friends are.
• 17:55
  Roxanne: And I think I mean, our families were supportive in that they just didn't know what to do.
• 18:03
  Roxanne: They didn't know what we needed.
• 18:04
  Roxanne: They didn't know.
• 18:06
  Roxanne: You know, there was a lot of stress financially.
• 18:09
  Roxanne: They just didn't, they were there and, and my son was really close to.
• 18:15
  Roxanne: Really all of our living family and, but at the same time, they don't know.
• 18:21
  Roxanne: And then all his friends and the other families we were close to, those kids kept going.
• 18:28
  Roxanne: And those kept, you know, they were on their path, they were finished high school, they, they know got on the honor roll and they were in these clubs and doing all their stuff.
• 18:38
  Roxanne: So.
• 18:39
  Roxanne: There's also that feeling of you kinda getting left in the dark and then when the bad behavior starts, there's that reputation.
• 18:49
  Roxanne: And I think there's a lot of criticism from people that don't even know you and don't know what's going on, and, well, that would never happen in our house, you know?
• 19:02
  Roxanne: Guess what?
• 19:03
  Roxanne: It would never happen in our house, but it did.
• 19:06
  Roxanne: So it can be really isolating.
• 19:08
  Roxanne: But we we know who our friends are and we know.
• 19:14
  Roxanne: Even some when they couldn't understand they were there, we have the best next door neighbors that you could ever imagine, because that last weekend when my son went totally off the rail, that ended up, you know, in wilderness, he broke into their house while they were on vacation and stole.
• 19:37
  Roxanne: Uh, prescription drugs.
• 19:39
  Roxanne: I mean, what else?
• 19:41
  Roxanne: And they just, the, the whole way it all went down and turned out there.
• 19:48
  Roxanne: There is grace.
• 19:49
  Roxanne: There are good people in the world that understand that raising children is.
• 19:55
  Roxanne: You know, one of the hardest things and they, they had two boys and one was my son's exact same age, and then one was just, uh, they're like thir, uh, 14 months apart or something.
• 20:07
  Roxanne: So they're very close and were big parts.
• 20:10
  Roxanne: Well, that could make, that could compromise.
• 20:14
  Roxanne: Everything.
• 20:15
  Roxanne: I mean, we wanna, the house we bought, we wanna stay in forever.
• 20:20
  Roxanne: And imagine trying to make peace with that.
• 20:23
  Roxanne: I mean, and they were so, so it's both.
• 20:27
  Roxanne: I mean, really good, strong support, good friendship, even from people that didn't understand and then totally dropped, which.
• 20:38
  Roxanne: For your child.
• 20:39
  Roxanne: It's very isolating.
• 20:40
  Roxanne: 'cause that gives them more of a message that they, there's something wrong with 'em.
• 20:45
  Roxanne: No one wants to be with, with me.
• 20:48
  Roxanne: All these friends have, you know, left me in the dust and don't want anything to do with me.
• 20:53
  Roxanne: And so, uh, it's both and it's heartbreaking and.
• 20:59
  Roxanne: You go to a mom's thing or girls night or whatever, and all these moms are chit chatting about all these great things that their kids are doing and this and that, and, and you don't.
• 21:12
  Roxanne: You want to rejoice in that because you want these children to be successful because we have to help everybody to raise our children, but.
• 21:24
  Roxanne: That's tough and it makes you not wanna go, and it makes you not wanna hear how great everything is and it, it, it starts to take its toll and it starts to wear you down.
• 21:36
  Roxanne: It starts to, I think the, the worst was when your child's behaviors compromising your friendships and your relationships with your adult peers and you know, your neighbors and all that.
• 21:52
  Brenda: You're trying to navigate this with him, you're also working, you have a marriage you're trying to hold together, like there's so many different parts of life.
• 22:04
  Brenda: What was going on with you and yourself as as this kept going on and on and on?
• 22:12
  Brenda: Even
• 22:12
  Roxanne: when you start in wilderness, they're just on you about, you've gotta take care of yourself before you can take care of your child.
• 22:22
  Roxanne: You've gotta take care of yourself.
• 22:24
  Roxanne: You've gotta focus on yourself.
• 22:26
  Roxanne: We do that, you know, in this dream.
• 22:29
  Roxanne: That's easy to say and Oh, yes it is.
• 22:34
  Roxanne: It's so hard to do.
• 22:36
  Roxanne: I was devastated.
• 22:37
  Roxanne: I mean, in, in a day.
• 22:39
  Roxanne: My, you know, I. It, I got to where I didn't feel safe in my home with him there, so, yeah.
• 22:46
  Roxanne: And then all of a sudden he's kind of snatched away and he, you don't know where he is.
• 22:53
  Roxanne: You don't know what he's doing.
• 22:54
  Roxanne: You don't, it's, it's heartbreaking.
• 22:56
  Roxanne: And you, the last thing you wanna do is go work out and go for a walk in the sun and you know, go get your hair done and all this stuff.
• 23:06
  Roxanne: So.
• 23:08
  Roxanne: As much as I try to take care of myself over time, so we're talking 10 years now.
• 23:16
  Roxanne: It, I just got worn down more and more and more and by the end of it, I'm just trying to think.
• 23:24
  Roxanne: I think it was, uh, so he was in.
• 23:29
  Roxanne: Maybe the third treatment, uh, when Covid happened.
• 23:33
  Roxanne: So, you know, we didn't get to go to the, like family things were all on Zoom and it was just nuts.
• 23:40
  Roxanne: Towards the end of the first year of Covid, I started having these symptoms and it, then it just blew up and I had a diagnosis of an autoimmune condition and that you don't take a pill and that goes away.
• 23:54
  Roxanne: You know?
• 23:54
  Roxanne: No.
• 23:55
  Roxanne: And it, it's just.
• 23:57
  Roxanne: From just the constant stress and it, it, it's a big deal and it's serious and you're, you know, you're taking on, I was on steroids for a year and a half, so that wears down your bones and, you know, I don't know.
• 24:15
  Roxanne: It, it really took its toll on both of us, not as.
• 24:22
  Roxanne: Much my husband as me, but at the, you know, it, it does and then, then you really don't know what to do because, so now we've changed our whole financial plan.
• 24:34
  Roxanne: We've changed our whole lifestyle.
• 24:36
  Roxanne: I mean, I'm an artist and I had to learn an entirely new.
• 24:43
  Roxanne: Skillset to, to have this new career, new job.
• 24:47
  Roxanne: It's very physically demanding.
• 24:49
  Roxanne: It.
• 24:50
  Roxanne: It's not what I wanted to do.
• 24:51
  Roxanne: It's not how I wanted things to go down and, of course you have to accept that.
• 24:57
  Roxanne: 'cause we would do lots of things for our children.
• 25:00
  Roxanne: Sometimes we, I used to think would do anything for my child, but it that doesn't matter.
• 25:05
  Roxanne: It doesn't matter.
• 25:06
  Roxanne: You can do, you can do everything and it doesn't ma you know, it, sometimes it doesn't matter.
• 25:16
  Roxanne: But yeah, it, it, it took its toll.
• 25:18
  Roxanne: It beat me up physically, mentally.
• 25:22
  Roxanne: Just, ugh.
• 25:25
  Roxanne: And, and I don't know if knowing this it would be any different if I went through it again, because your heart, and your brain and your connection to your child is, it doesn't change.
• 25:38
  Roxanne: You know?
• 25:39
  Roxanne: It's a love like no other.
• 25:49
  Brenda: Hey, friend, can I tell you something?
• 25:52
  Brenda: If you're a mom navigating the heartbreaking, confusing journey of loving a child who struggles with substance misuse and mental health, I see you.
• 26:02
  Brenda: I really do.
• 26:03
  Brenda: When my family was in the deepest, darkest place, I felt completely alone.
• 26:08
  Brenda: I was terrified, exhausted, and had no roadmap.
• 26:12
  Brenda: That's exactly why we created Hope Stream.
• 26:15
  Brenda: The community and support I wish we'd had years ago.
• 26:20
  Brenda: The Stream membership isn't just another program that will tell you to let go or use tough love.
• 26:26
  Brenda: It's a lifeline, a place where you'll find real women who truly understand, who won't judge you and who will walk beside you with compassion.
• 26:37
  Brenda: We've curated resources, built an airtight private community, not on Facebook, and created a space where you can breathe, learn, and start healing, not just for your child, but for yourself.
• 26:51
  Brenda: Because you matter.
• 26:53
  Brenda: Your journey matters.
• 26:55
  Brenda: If you're ready to feel supported, understood, and empowered, join us in the stream.
• 27:02
  Brenda: We can't wait to welcome you.
• 27:03
  Brenda: Visit Hope Stream community.org to learn more and join us today.
• 27:22
  Brenda: How was your communication with him?
• 27:24
  Brenda: You said he had a lot of anger and you know, he, he felt like he had gotten that message early on, that something was wrong with him.
• 27:32
  Brenda: While you were going through this, were you able to maintain communication or what, what happened in that area?
• 27:40
  Roxanne: Oddly.
• 27:41
  Roxanne: He told us everything.
• 27:43
  Roxanne: He told us all the stuff you don't wanna know.
• 27:46
  Roxanne: And we in family therapy when he's at in his first residential treatment and.
• 27:54
  Roxanne: We're ramping up for the first visit home and he tells in family therapy, the therapist, nah, I'm not doing that.
• 28:02
  Roxanne: I'm gonna leave.
• 28:04
  Roxanne: I'm gonna sneak out and do what I want to.
• 28:06
  Roxanne: You know.
• 28:07
  Roxanne: He has been oddly honest with us the entire time.
• 28:12
  Roxanne: So there's good and bad to that.
• 28:16
  Roxanne: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Roxanne: At least you know where you stand.
• 28:20
  Roxanne: I mean, he, from the very first, he was clear that he was not committed to sobriety, period.
• 28:31
  Roxanne: And it just wasn't gonna happen.
• 28:32
  Brenda: Wow.
• 28:33
  Roxanne: Abstinence, I mean, the whole time.
• 28:37
  Roxanne: And I think that somewhere in him, he knew that.
• 28:44
  Roxanne: He wasn't an addict.
• 28:46
  Roxanne: Maybe, I don't know.
• 28:47
  Roxanne: I think he just, even at 20 it, he still was like, I'm following the rules.
• 28:56
  Roxanne: I'm doing what I need to do.
• 28:57
  Roxanne: I'm making these changes.
• 28:58
  Roxanne: I'm going to this therapy.
• 28:59
  Roxanne: I'm going all these meetings, but I'm not doing this.
• 29:03
  Roxanne: You know, I see what uh, substances are doing, but, I'm still, I'm gonna drink a beer.
• 29:10
  Roxanne: You know?
• 29:10
  Roxanne: And he does still, but it's not, you know, he's so, his life is so structured.
• 29:15
  Roxanne: It's like, it's not, there's no way to take that out of bounds anymore.
• 29:21
  Roxanne: You know?
• 29:22
  Roxanne: It, it's, it's healthy if it can be, you know, but it, our communication has always been really strong and.
• 29:33
  Roxanne: Stronger sometimes than you really want.
• 29:36
  Roxanne: Right?
• 29:38
  Roxanne: I think about when I was growing up, you know, which was a very different time.
• 29:42
  Roxanne: There's stuff I never would've told my parents, you know, or would've hidden and stuff.
• 29:49
  Roxanne: They just didn't need to know.
• 29:50
  Roxanne: Mostly because I knew how stressful it would be for them.
• 29:55
  Roxanne: But there wasn't a lot of hiding and that can be good and bad.
• 30:02
  Brenda: Yeah, that's so interesting, isn't it?
• 30:05
  Brenda: How all each kid is so different.
• 30:07
  Brenda: Yes.
• 30:07
  Brenda: Some will, you know, make up these elaborate lies and schemes to, you know, hide their behavior or, and, and then you've got someone like your son who is just completely transparent about it.
• 30:20
  Brenda: And I mean, what that.
• 30:21
  Brenda: It sounds like to me is that he knew that you were a safe place.
• 30:25
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 30:25
  Brenda: And he knew that you guys were gonna be there for him, and that he could tell you that without risking, you know.
• 30:35
  Brenda: That you weren't gonna love him or, or anything like that.
• 30:38
  Brenda: So I think that's really amazing that you had that and hopefully still have that with him.
• 30:44
  Brenda: We
• 30:44
  Roxanne: do in a healthy way.
• 30:46
  Roxanne: The dangerous part about that is that he knew we would rescue him and you know, we rescued him a lot of times that we shouldn't have or.
• 30:59
  Roxanne: It's not that we shouldn't have, but if we hadn't, things would've gone differently.
• 31:05
  Roxanne: I don't know.
• 31:05
  Roxanne: Again, it's easy to hear that, look, you gotta take care of yourself.
• 31:10
  Roxanne: If that means kicking him out on the street with all the stuff and he's gonna live under a bridge, sometimes that's not, that really is not the best option, you know?
• 31:23
  Roxanne: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Roxanne: So, so communication good.
• 31:25
  Roxanne: Yes.
• 31:27
  Roxanne: But I think it, it also built that, that he knew we were gonna rescue him.
• 31:32
  Roxanne: We loved, he knew he was loved and cared for and, you know, we were, he was our only child.
• 31:39
  Roxanne: He was a long time coming.
• 31:41
  Roxanne: It was just I think, yeah, there's, that could go either way.
• 31:45
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 31:46
  Brenda: Talk a little bit more about some of the boundaries that you ended up.
• 31:50
  Brenda: Using or or establishing as things progressed because you do have to keep yourself sane and safe, and I know the chaos that comes with this lifestyle.
• 32:02
  Brenda: Were there some boundaries that you decided to hold that protected you and your potentially,
• 32:10
  Roxanne: I mean.
• 32:12
  Roxanne: It, it didn't, the boundaries until recently, laying down the law and making that boundary, we're not giving you any more money.
• 32:21
  Roxanne: We're not, you know, you have to move out all that.
• 32:25
  Roxanne: Whatever boundary we made, it didn't matter.
• 32:27
  Roxanne: This last boundary, he came back from his last residential treatment, like in high, I think, and we said, you got six months.
• 32:37
  Roxanne: End of January, you're out no matter what.
• 32:40
  Roxanne: And, and that time I was ready to put everything that he owned in IKEA bags and set 'em out on the curb.
• 32:49
  Roxanne: It was gonna happen.
• 32:50
  Roxanne: And I think at that point he knew it was gonna happen and he did.
• 32:54
  Roxanne: And he rose the occasion and he, this time it worked.
• 33:01
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Roxanne: Other times.
• 33:05
  Roxanne: The boundaries, you know, financial boundaries are big because they've gotta figure it out.
• 33:12
  Brenda: Yes.
• 33:13
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Brenda: The financial boundaries are painful.
• 33:16
  Brenda: Well, and it's less about, and I think you've done the Boundaries workshop with us.
• 33:20
  Brenda: It's less about the boundary.
• 33:22
  Brenda: It's holding the boundary, holding the boundary, and the consequence of holding the boundary.
• 33:28
  Brenda: We really should do a workshop on, not the, don't call it a boundaries workshop.
• 33:32
  Brenda: Anybody can set a boundary.
• 33:34
  Brenda: It's holding it and living with the consequences, which is so, so hard.
• 33:39
  Brenda: So, I know that you live in Asheville.
• 33:43
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 33:43
  Brenda: And I know when this was it, Helene, is that the mm-hmm.
• 33:47
  Brenda: Storm that hit?
• 33:48
  Roxanne: Yes.
• 33:49
  Brenda: Devastated your town.
• 33:51
  Brenda: And what was the impact of that?
• 33:54
  Brenda: Because I, I, my heart just went out, 'cause I knew I had just been there, I guess a year ago.
• 33:58
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 33:59
  Brenda: In January.
• 34:00
  Brenda: Just loved Asheville.
• 34:03
  Brenda: And then to think about all of the kids that were there, we had brunch with like, I don't know, eight moms or something.
• 34:09
  Brenda: Like they're, so I know that's just a microcosm of what's going on Right.
• 34:13
  Brenda: In the community.
• 34:14
  Brenda: So I'm thinking here you have this.
• 34:17
  Brenda: Just absolutely devastating natural catastrophe happen.
• 34:23
  Brenda: And you've got kids who are really struggling with mental health and with substances.
• 34:30
  Brenda: What was that, what was going on then?
• 34:33
  Brenda: What him and, and what did you guys do about that?
• 34:38
  Roxanne: There are areas where you would go and you want, wouldn't believe that it happened six months ago.
• 34:44
  Roxanne: I mean, it's just so, it, it'll, it's long, long recovery.
• 34:49
  Roxanne: So quickly he was like, oh no, you know, this is bad.
• 34:57
  Roxanne: And.
• 34:58
  Roxanne: When we finally could get communication and figure out exactly what was going on, we said, you have got to get outta here?
• 35:08
  Roxanne: There is nothing for you here now, even more so than ever, you've gotta go.
• 35:15
  Roxanne: And so I do think it was motivation to leave the area because.
• 35:25
  Roxanne: It compromised everything, and I think he also realized people.
• 35:32
  Roxanne: That he knew that weren't as far along as he was.
• 35:36
  Roxanne: It was, you know, there's, there's no way to know about a lot of the homeless people that got killed in that because their families didn't know where they were in the first place.
• 35:48
  Roxanne: Right.
• 35:48
  Roxanne: So I, I don't know that they'll ever be a of that.
• 35:52
  Roxanne: And our, that population has gone way up.
• 35:55
  Roxanne: And as you know, mental health and, substance use plays a big part in that.
• 36:01
  Roxanne: But for him, seeing these places that were important to him and special to him that were just gone, yeah.
• 36:12
  Roxanne: He lived in an apartment in a town north of here for a while trying to get it together again.
• 36:22
  Roxanne: That it, it, that main street, some of the buildings are gone because other buildings ran into 'em, you know, other buildings were already getting smashed.
• 36:33
  Roxanne: I mean, just, and he didn't have a reference point for that, you know, there's no, yeah, well, none of us did.
• 36:41
  Roxanne: And seeing your home, and this is his home.
• 36:48
  Roxanne: It's always been the place he could come back to.
• 36:52
  Roxanne: Just, it was devastating.
• 36:55
  Roxanne: He did, uh, sort of click into help mode and our, my brother-in-law and sister-in-law's house was completely smashed, so they were in crisis and.
• 37:06
  Roxanne: His role became taking care of their dogs and taking them away to somewhere else where they, he could care for them.
• 37:14
  Roxanne: And it kinda, it gave him a purpose and and got him a little bit away from Asheville and what was going on.
• 37:22
  Roxanne: But it also made him again, go.
• 37:26
  Roxanne: I gotta get outta here.
• 37:28
  Roxanne: This, my life is not, I, this is not what I have to do.
• 37:34
  Roxanne: It also reminded us that it, it, there's just nothing we can do about so many things.
• 37:41
  Roxanne: So you have to meet it and then regroup and.
• 37:48
  Roxanne: It, yeah, it, it, it's really hard to be specific about all the ways that that impacted him, but a lot of it for him was, you know, trying to drive down his road that it was like his therapy and he'd stop by the river and play his guitar.
• 38:05
  Roxanne: Well, that road isn't even there.
• 38:07
  Roxanne: I mean, it wasn't, you couldn't even walk down that road.
• 38:12
  Brenda: Wow.
• 38:13
  Brenda: That is so, so huge.
• 38:16
  Brenda: It's, you know, it's something that I think we.
• 38:21
  Brenda: You know, if you're not in the, in experiencing it, and I think about you guys, I think about, obviously the fires in Maui and in la you can't comprehend what that must do to your mental state to just have.
• 38:39
  Brenda: Everything be gone.
• 38:41
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 38:42
  Brenda: Because, like you said, there's no point of reference anymore.
• 38:45
  Brenda: Like what do you hold onto, what do you grasp onto that?
• 38:48
  Brenda: Those things that brought you joy or brought you grounding and kind of made you like, gave you a sense of where you were in the world are, isn't there?
• 38:59
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 39:00
  Brenda: It's just, it's just surreal.
• 39:02
  Brenda: Is there something that you have found.
• 39:06
  Brenda: And I know you're better at taking care of yourself because you, you were forced to, right?
• 39:11
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 39:12
  Brenda: Your body forced you to, is there something that you found that you kind of returned to over and over that keeps you going through the tenures, that you went through?
• 39:24
  Brenda: This
• 39:24
  Roxanne: it, uh, music is, is it?
• 39:30
  Roxanne: Uh, I used to see a lot of live music.
• 39:32
  Roxanne: I don't anymore because of the amount of people that you've come in contact with.
• 39:37
  Roxanne: Every now and then I'll still go, but my collect albums, vinyl records, and it's a big it's big like days where it, it was the absolute worst.
• 39:50
  Roxanne: My husband and I knew, okay, it is time to sit down and.
• 39:56
  Roxanne: Listen to some records and just get, you know, if there have been a lot of things, there are a lot of things church, just many things.
• 40:09
  Roxanne: But if I had to just name one that I come back to, it is, it's music.
• 40:14
  Roxanne: Absolutely.
• 40:15
  Roxanne: Because it takes your, it just takes your mind off of everything, you know?
• 40:20
  Roxanne: Yeah.
• 40:20
  Roxanne: You don't, you pay attention to one thing and, uh, really appreciate the moment there and just, I think gratitude also just learning that lesson.
• 40:32
  Roxanne: 'cause it's easy to go, man, this is bad, this is really bad.
• 40:37
  Roxanne: All this stuff, bad stuff is happening.
• 40:41
  Roxanne: I did learn that early on, and I can't remember if it was in a therapy session of my own or family therapy or something, but the gratitude of what we do have and what, what we're standing firm on.
• 40:54
  Roxanne: And even if that meant.
• 40:57
  Roxanne: Today I am grateful that I was alive.
• 41:01
  Roxanne: You know, then it had to be that.
• 41:04
  Roxanne: Yeah, but, but often if you look at it, or for me it was like, no, there's a lot more than that.
• 41:11
  Roxanne: He has good caregivers or, you know, we have support or whatever it is.
• 41:18
  Roxanne: But the gratitude makes you look around and see.
• 41:22
  Roxanne: The things that are going Okay.
• 41:24
  Roxanne: Or the things that you know, can, I also started a mantra at some point instead of catastrophizing and thinking of all this stuff, you know, I was I started a mantra as something like, my son is gonna do something good.
• 41:42
  Roxanne: My son is going to do great things and.
• 41:48
  Roxanne: You have to practice it.
• 41:49
  Roxanne: You have to practice gratitude.
• 41:51
  Roxanne: You have to practice those mantras like, there's nothing I can do about this.
• 41:56
  Roxanne: There's nothing I can do about this, or, this is outta my control, or he's gonna do something great.
• 42:02
  Roxanne: He's gonna not even, like, he's gonna turn all this around and everything's gonna be fine.
• 42:09
  Roxanne: It's just he's gonna do something good.
• 42:14
  Roxanne: Uh, again, I had to learn those and I had to practice 'em.
• 42:18
  Roxanne: You have to practice it, and you don't wanna, you don't wanna practice it.
• 42:22
  Brenda: You have to practice.
• 42:24
  Brenda: It sounds silly, doesn't it?
• 42:25
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 42:25
  Brenda: But you really have to practice those mindsets and those mantras.
• 42:28
  Brenda: I love that he's going to do something good.
• 42:32
  Brenda: And I happen to know he is doing something good now.
• 42:36
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 42:37
  Brenda: Because you sent me a little chat and I was doing a little happy dance because he is now helping other kids, right?
• 42:45
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 42:46
  Brenda: I mean, come on.
• 42:48
  Brenda: Like that just has to make your heart sing.
• 42:54
  Roxanne: Who would've thought this, you know, he's in school full time and try, just trying to get him outta high school was like even that day, like he graduated at the community college with GED.
• 43:08
  Roxanne: We were like, oh wow.
• 43:10
  Roxanne: Woo.
• 43:11
  Roxanne: You know, it didn't have to be this hard, but okay, we're, we're doing it.
• 43:16
  Roxanne: But yes, so he's in school full time and he's.
• 43:20
  Roxanne: 10 states away from us, which I think is also really helpful.
• 43:26
  Roxanne: But and he is working in the same residential treatment program where he was, when he was 15 and 16, about, I guess it was about three weeks ago, was his spring break and.
• 43:39
  Roxanne: He didn't have any big plans and I went out just for a couple of days and he picked me up late at the airport and we drove to his apartment, went in his apartment, and.
• 43:51
  Roxanne: It.
• 43:51
  Roxanne: I was like, looked like a normal person, lived there, like needed some fold of laundry, but it was clean and like his biggest issue was that he had made a roast in the crockpot and he didn't know what to do with the what was left over.
• 44:08
  Roxanne: And I was just like, so many times since I, since like we started this process, I have looked at him and thought and even said sometimes.
• 44:19
  Roxanne: Who are you and what have you done with my child?
• 44:22
  Roxanne: You know, because, and this was one of those moments where you walk in and you go, oh, here's, here he is.
• 44:31
  Brenda: Here he is.
• 44:33
  Brenda: I, I think I.
• 44:34
  Brenda: It's I love hearing you talk about, like, you look like he needs to fold the laundry, but everything looks good.
• 44:40
  Brenda: Like he's adulting, he's, he's being normal.
• 44:44
  Brenda: He doesn't know what to do with the stuff in the crockpot.
• 44:46
  Brenda: Like we as, as moms of kids who have struggled like this, those are the most precious things, right?
• 44:55
  Brenda: Like I think most moms would.
• 44:58
  Brenda: Not find that such a, like, huge thing.
• 45:03
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 45:03
  Brenda: And just appreciate and, and have gratitude for the fact that he made a roast in the Exactly.
• 45:10
  Brenda: Exactly.
• 45:10
  Brenda: I mean, hello.
• 45:12
  Brenda: That's so incredible.
• 45:14
  Brenda: Well, if you were to meet a mom today who, maybe she just joined the stream today, we had a couple of new members join today.
• 45:23
  Brenda: So what would your words of wisdom be for them?
• 45:28
  Roxanne: We probably say it a lot, but I just, hang on.
• 45:32
  Roxanne: I mean, know that, I mean, I think the support that we have in the stream is huge because it, you find this, this team of people who are going through the same thing because it is so isolating.
• 45:46
  Roxanne: But it is that not to give up hope that there is, there is a path, there is gonna be a way.
• 45:56
  Roxanne: A, a year ago I wouldn't have been saying this.
• 46:00
  Roxanne: We are still exhausted from all that has happened and it's so many times like, here we go again.
• 46:10
  Roxanne: Here we go again here.
• 46:12
  Roxanne: You know, but it is that.
• 46:15
  Roxanne: It's not to give up hope.
• 46:18
  Roxanne: Somewhere in there, you know who your child is, you know, your, the real child, not the child that has taken this face of substance use and awful language and, and, and defense with the awful words to people that he loves.
• 46:39
  Roxanne: And all this is, it's just that, that hope.
• 46:43
  Roxanne: And when you're in crisis, you don't.
• 46:46
  Roxanne: You don't think that's ever gonna happen?
• 46:49
  Roxanne: Ever gonna come?
• 46:51
  Brenda: I think using your mantra, he or she or they are going to do something great.
• 46:58
  Brenda: Is, is so good because it's positive, it's hope, it's determined.
• 47:07
  Brenda: And when they, they're gonna be making a pot roast in a crockpot.
• 47:12
  Brenda: And you're not gonna believe it.
• 47:14
  Roxanne: And, and you gotta do the mantra, even though it sounds like you're lying, like you're telling a lie or like you're, this is ridiculous that I'm saying this to myself.
• 47:24
  Roxanne: Your, you know, how I found you was through the, your meditations that you were doing.
• 47:30
  Roxanne: Because in insight timer a lot, when I couldn't even think straight, I knew having some, someone say these things was gonna be helpful and all I had to do was just sit down and listen.
• 47:45
  Roxanne: So important.
• 47:45
  Brenda: Oh, I'm so excited to, I did not know.
• 47:48
  Brenda: That's a fun fact.
• 47:49
  Brenda: I didn't know about you that, that we found each other on insight timer.
• 47:53
  Roxanne: Well, imagine searching for that particular, you know, you put in sleep or you put in anxiety or something and I kept doing like moms with children with, you know, and there it was.
• 48:07
  Roxanne: Finally I was like.
• 48:09
  Roxanne: Yes.
• 48:10
  Roxanne: So that, yeah, that was big.
• 48:11
  Roxanne: And just being able to hear, listen to that and have those words.
• 48:17
  Roxanne: There are several, but it's the one that you did where at nighttime and you just, you did imagine your child's walking up to the edge of the.
• 48:27
  Roxanne: And that one.
• 48:29
  Brenda: Yes.
• 48:29
  Brenda: Yes.
• 48:30
  Brenda: I'll put a link to that in the show notes.
• 48:32
  Brenda: Yeah, the, that was one somehow that kept coming to me when we were in the thick of it.
• 48:39
  Brenda: And I would wake up and not be able to go back to sleep.
• 48:43
  Brenda: And you know that as soon as your sleep goes, everything goes.
• 48:46
  Brenda: Mm-hmm.
• 48:46
  Brenda: So I was like, I, I've gotta get to sleep.
• 48:49
  Brenda: And some, for some reason that came to me that.
• 48:53
  Brenda: I was gonna hand over the night shift to God and just say you're on.
• 49:00
  Brenda: I have to sleep, I have to get some rest.
• 49:03
  Brenda: And so I'm so glad that you found that and that that was helpful.
• 49:07
  Brenda: I, I have heard from many people send little messages and insight timer saying, thank you.
• 49:12
  Brenda: I'm finally getting some sleep, so we'll make sure and put that in there.
• 49:17
  Brenda: It's just gives me so much joy to.
• 49:18
  Brenda: To talk to you and see you looking so good.
• 49:22
  Brenda: And you know, I can just see the light in your eyes and I hope you're being able to get back and do some art.
• 49:29
  Brenda: Are you able to get some art?
• 49:31
  Roxanne: Some, yes.
• 49:32
  Roxanne: And I'm helping a friend that's starting a sort of a bigger sewing operation and studio and gallery space and all that.
• 49:41
  Roxanne: So Very cool.
• 49:42
  Roxanne: I am when I can.
• 49:44
  Roxanne: Yeah.
• 49:45
  Roxanne: Doing some things.
• 49:46
  Roxanne: So
• 49:46
  Brenda: we need to start an artist club in this stream because I know there are several of you that are just phenomenal artists and, uh, I think that's so special for those of us who are not.
• 49:56
  Brenda: We look at that and go, how in the world do they do this?
• 50:01
  Brenda: And I've seen some of your work is incredible.
• 50:03
  Brenda: So thank Well, thank you for sharing your story, your wisdom.
• 50:08
  Brenda: Your pain.
• 50:08
  Brenda: I know it's a lot.
• 50:09
  Brenda: Sometimes it brings stuff up that isn't so great to think about, so I hope you'll take really good care of yourself the rest of the day and maybe get outside and breathe some fresh air.
• 50:20
  Brenda: Thank you.
• 50:22
  Brenda: Okay, my friend.
• 50:23
  Brenda: If you want the transcript or show notes and resources from this episode, just go to Hope Stream community.org and click on podcast.
• 50:30
  Brenda: That'll take you to all things podcast related, including the full library.
• 50:36
  Brenda: A search feature if you're looking for something specific.
• 50:40
  Brenda: And also playlist, where we have grouped together episodes on things like craft recovery stories, solo episodes, siblings.
• 50:48
  Brenda: We even have a start here playlist if you're new.
• 50:51
  Brenda: Those are super helpful, so be sure to check them out.
• 50:55
  Brenda: I also wanna let you know about a free ebook you can download if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance misuse.
• 51:03
  Brenda: A book is called Worried Sick.
• 51:05
  Brenda: A compassionate guide for parents of teens and young adults misusing drugs and alcohol.
• 51:10
  Brenda: And it'll introduce you to ways that you can rebuild connection and relationship with your child versus distance.
• 51:17
  Brenda: And let them hit rock bottom.
• 51:19
  Brenda: It is a game changer.
• 51:20
  Brenda: It's totally free.
• 51:22
  Brenda: Just go to Hope Dream community.org/worried.
• 51:26
  Brenda: To download that.
• 51:28
  Brenda: You are amazing.
• 51:29
  Brenda: You are such a rockstar, a super elite level parent.
• 51:33
  Brenda: It's truly an honor to be here with you.
• 51:35
  Brenda: And please know you are not doing this alone.
• 51:38
  Brenda: You've got this tribe and you will be okay.
• 51:42
  Brenda: You'll make it through this season, and when you do, you are going to be stronger and more resilient than you ever thought possible.
• 51:50
  Brenda: I'm sending all my love and light and I'll meet you right back here next week.