Latest / Patriots Catch-22 / Patriots Catch-22 4/30: Draft Recap, Pats Draft Class Breakdown, Dane Brugler Interview

Transcript

Patriots Catch-22 4/30: Draft Recap, Pats Draft Class Breakdown, Dane Brugler Interview · Patriots Catch-22

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth and Lazarre.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hell everybody nailed it, joined us always by our Bara.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars I.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I know Ben Jonson's a nerd and they don't like
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: running guys the way they operated in Detroit. I think
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: he may be one of these nerds that is a
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: little softer on the running back thing than everybody else.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: But you will disown that guy so fast from the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: nerd community.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you take a running this is what you
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: you you if you want until they you dumb nerd
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: stuff and then you just own them and you.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Say, because it's not like a nerd, but all do,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: but this isn't.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: That's not nerd. Of they didn't do it, neither team
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: they Yeah, you're right, Jaguars not exactly full nerd. Trading
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: up and giving up capital is not usual. No, No,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: that's a RAMS thing. A lot of value in the
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: picks is actually more of a nerd thing. But that's okay.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Travis Hunter not a running back last time I checked.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Colston Lovelin not a running back last time they're.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Coting to play Travis Hunter both ways full time is
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: a pretty big nerd thing because you're not accounting the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: human element of stamina. You're just looking at what the
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: data tells you he can do.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Because Travis Hunter has had no success at a high
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: level of football, doing.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Is the NFL is a little different than the Big twelve.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Anyways, Travis Hunter, Jaguars Catch, excited to do it. This
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: is not Jaguars Catch. So hello everybody. On that note, Hi, Hello,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Evan Lazar, Alex Barth with you for the next couple
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: hours here a very special exciting show today, post draft show,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: big show for us, and I just want to lay
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: out the agenda here today. Alex and I are going
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: to do our normal show for the first like hour
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: forty hour, forty five minutes here today, and then at
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: the end of the show you're going to want to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: stay all the way to the end because yesterday we
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: were able to sit down with Dan Brugler from The
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Athletic the Beast himself and discuss the Patriots draft class
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and why Dane ranked the Patriots as the best draft
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: in the entire NFL. So we're jam packed today, so
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: that means calls and emails I'm not sure we're going
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: to get to those today because we want to go
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: pick by pick through all eleven picks, and then obviously
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: you guys all want to hear what Dane has to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: say at the end of the show as well, So
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: we got a lot to get to. On that note,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I do want to start with just our big picture
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: thoughts on the draft, and I would just start by saying,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: we're all very excited about what the Patriots have done
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: this offseason. We're all very optimistic about this ero with
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Mike Rabel and Elliott Wolf and Ryan Cowden and Stretch
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and the whole gang and draft they put together was fantastic.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm not that's not Sunshine dot com Like, I
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: really thought it was a great draft. Yeah, I thought
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: it was a great draft that they had. That said,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I do want to keep expectations a little bit in check.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I hear a lot of playoffs conversations right now about
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: this team. Yeah, we're let's see what the team looks
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: like in training camp in the preseason before we start
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: talking about playoffs. All right, It's we got a ways
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: to go until that's, you know, back to back four
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: win seasons to playoffs. But they're headed in the right direction.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: The most encouraging thing I thought from a big picture
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: standpoint with this draft, Alex was the feel for the board,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: and the feel for the board married with UH getting
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: their needs checked, but also doing it with the board
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: in mind right and not reaching for need or missing
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: runs on positions of need or anything like that that
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: maybe we saw a little bit of in the twenty
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: four draft. The twenty five draft, it seemed a lot more.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: To use Elliott what Wells word organized, Like, they felt
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: more organized. The draft made more sense. It felt more
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: routine for them. So when he came out and said
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: this was more organized this process, it showed you could
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: feel it. It was tangible. There was evidence of it
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: being more organized. So that's all very exciting. Like I said,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: we'll get to the individual picks as we go here today,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: But what were your big picture thoughts on the draft?
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of the same thing. I thought. The biggest
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: thing that stood out to me was the big debate
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: beyond the players themselves, Like the big philosophical debate for
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: me for the Patriots in this draft was drafting for
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: need versus best player available, and then how much should
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: you value premium position. How much ald premium position factor
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: into that? And I thought they walked the line between
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: those two things incredibly well. You know, you look at
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: their first pick and Will Campbell. That was not to
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: say he wasn't arguably the best player available, you know,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: for what they had, but you know, ash Gent, he
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: would have been the pure best player available pick. Right,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: We've talked about that. But they go out, they address
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: their biggest need at a premium position right off the top,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: and then what do they do. They come back at
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: pick thirty eight, and that was a pure best player
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: available pick if Luther Burden wasn't on their board. And
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: you could debate whether or not that's right, but I
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: think we all kind of assumed they weren't going to
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: draft Luthor Burden. So if Luther Burn's not on their board,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: there's a real argument they're right there at Trevion Henderson's
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: just best player available, so you know, and they kind
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: of went back and forth on that. And I thought
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the other thing is they did a really good job
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: of supporting Drake may I thought this draft helped out
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Drake May a ton and I said this a lot
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: into the lead up, and I'll say it again, what's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: best for the football team is what's best for Drake
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: May and vice versa. At this point, Drake May is
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: their best asset. They need to maximize him. They last
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: time they draft a quarterback. Now there were other issues there,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: but last time the draft a quarterback, they did not
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: do that. This felt like them doing that, especially after
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: free agencies and people were nervous, and I get why,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Like they signed all these defensive players and didn't at
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Morgan Moses. I think the ones true starter they added
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: in free agency on offense, which is fun, step on
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to roll, like the initial Waight Yeah, Stefan Diggs just
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: a good point. But like I think a lot of
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: these picks. You know, you go out, you get a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: really good yards after catch receiver, you get a three
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: down running back who's a home run threat. You get
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: obviously starting left tackle, right, starting later, starting center. So
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I think that they did a lot to invest in
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Drake May. Now May has to prove that those investments
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: are worthwhile, right, which we all think he can do.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: But they invested in Drake May, which I love.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: All Right, let's get to it. Let's get to the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: nitty gritty. Yeah, you it's not waste any time here
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: today deliberating big picture thoughts. But I think the we've
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: talked so much about Will Campbell over the last five months. Yeah,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I don't have a ton to add on Will Campbell,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to spend a ton of time
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: on Will Campbell. I do feel like though, you know,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I'm writing our future series that we'll have on every pick,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: all eleven picks. We're gonna start rolling those out soon
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: on the website. And I have talked to his offensive
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: line coach at LSU, Duke Mannyweather, some other people that
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: have worked with Will Campbell have been around Will Campbell.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I got to spend ten minutes with him even on
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Patriots Unfiltered last week. So I've now that I've gotten
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: to know him a little bit just from talking to
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: people in his life. I understand the intangible even more.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And we talked a ton about the intangible stuff. We
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: talked a ton about the tangible the football on this show,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: and we have deliberated and debated all the different pros
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and cons and poked every single hole in Will Campbell's
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: game that we possibly could. But what I think I
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: keep coming back to his offensive line coach Brad Davis
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: at LSU told me that he re established the culture
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: of the LSU offensive line room, you know, in terms
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: of work ethic and competitiveness and putting in those extra
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: you know a couple minutes you know, after practice and
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: in the weight room and in the film room and
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: in the cold tub and in the you know, with
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: the doctors and the nutritionists and like all these different things.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And when you start to think about it, and his
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: offensive line coach even pointed out to me that he
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: actually spent a lot of his own money, his NIO money,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: on working with specialists, you know, physical therapists, trainers, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: things like that. This guy, as he as Dave has
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: put it to me, has been a pro for like
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: two or three years already at LSU because he's been
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: conducting himself that way and completely re established or built
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the culture back up from twenty nineteen when they won
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the Joe Moore Award, you know, Joe Burrow and Jefferson
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and had a great offensive line in twenty nineteen, they
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: took a little bit of a step back for a
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: couple of years. Will Campbell arrives on campus and then
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: they are, you know, one of the better offensive lines
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: in the country from that point on. So as much
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: as I feel like fans here, let's talk about all
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: this leadership and and tangible stuff, And they say, well,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: if that's the first thing you're saying about the player,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: then he might maybe is he not really that good
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: of a football player?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Three months talking about how good of a football player.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: This is on top of the fact that he is
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a really good football player, And that's what gets you
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: as an offensive lineman or as last year, I heard
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of the same things when I did the
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: feature on Drake May It's that's how you get to
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: be the number four overall pick. You don't go number
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: four overall most of the time simply just because you're
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: an overwhelming talent. A lot of the time you go
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: for overall because of the entire package that you bring to.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: The table a program player. Yeah, and I think that's
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: what they're getting in Will Campbell. And you're, like you said,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: we've covered him extensively for last four months. I don't
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: know how much more there is to really add at
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: this point, but I'm with you in the sense that
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: you know he's going to be good for the program.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I don't expect there to be much of a learning
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: curve with him in terms of, you know, being a rookie,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: being a kid and figuring things out. I think he
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: kind of has it all, you know, outwardly, it seems
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: like he has a lot figured out at this point,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: which is very impressed at twenty one years old. That's
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: the other thing I'll remind people because I think you
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: hear so much about his leadership and his experience and
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: this and that, but you know, people talk about I
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: think people don't realize he just turned twenty one in January.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So this is a young guy. And from a football standpoint, like, wow,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: you could have yeah, breaking thing, no idea, what do
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: we do it? From a football standpoint, he has a
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: lot of room to get better physically because he's only
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: twenty one.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point and something that I've gravitated towards.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And this is not just because they've done it a
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: lot recently, but you know, I've gravitated towards the young breakout,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: the true junior declare is like those types of guys.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: And now the Patriots have had three in a row.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Christian Gonzales, Drake may, Will Campbell, and those are the
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: guys that have that upper echelon, blue chip level talent
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: and they break out early, and then they're able to
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: come out early and then go to the NFL at
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: a young age, and that that's where Will Campbell's at.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: You have something else to say, Oh, all right, let's
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: move on. I don't want to talk too much.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: About you spend because we've got a lot of players
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to get to him. We've talked about it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: We've spent five months talking about Will Campbell. All right,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: next pick here, Travon Henderson from Ohio State, running back,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: thirty eighth overall. A couple of things that stand out
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: to me about Trevon Henderson when I watched him pre draft.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: First of all, you mentioned it off the top home
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: run hitter. Right, This is a guy that can take
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: a pass behind the line of scrimmage from sixty five
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: yards out and house it and put it in the
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: end zone. Did it against Oregon, did it against Texas
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and the college football Playoff. So we're not talking about
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: him doing it against you know, Long Beach Polytech, right,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: We're talking about him doing it against a big time
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: competition with other fell players on the field. The other
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: things that stood out to me. I think he's a
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: really loose or fluid mover in space. I wouldn't say
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: that he's a jump card jump cut artist.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's overly elusive necessarily, but what he
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: is is very you know, dynamic in his movements, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: he can create separation as a receiver. He can get
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: out in space and he can either eliminate pursuit angles
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: or run through tackles or things of that nature. I
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: think that he's one of those players that's in a
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: similar mold, you know, if you want to, we always
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: talk about like ceiling, realistic comps, floor comps. Right for
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: these types of players. The ceiling of this archetype is
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Jamier Gibbs. I think he's the right now, at least
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: in the NFL. He's the top guy in this mold
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: in what Trayvon Henderson is hopefully going to bring to
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: the Patriots, the realistic comp that I made for him.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: And again this is all, this is not all. The
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Patriots drafted this guy, so now I'm gonna gast him up.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Was Breese Hall with the Jets, right, A guy that
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: can do both, that can run the football, catch the ball,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: out of the backfield, big play threat whenever he touches
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: the football. So I look at those two backfields David
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Montgomery and Jamier Gibbs and Braylan Allen and Breese Hall
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: in New York, and I say, Ramondroe, Stevenson Traveon Henderson.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: So I know a lot of people have talked about
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: his pass protection. He is a very good pass protector,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: highlight the underselling, high level bits, pick up guy, no
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: doubt about it. I love that element of his game.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really big part of getting him
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: on the field on third down early on in his career.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So I'm not underrating it or trying to make little
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: of it, but almost like with receivers, you're not drafting
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: him to block, Okay, you're drafting him to house the
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: ball from seventy five yards out like that. That's what
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you're hoping to get with the player. And when you
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: take him thirty eight overall, that's what you're hoping to
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: get out of t On Henderson. So I'm very excited
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: that one they looked at it and said, we need
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: big plays on offense, we need explosiveness on offense, and
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: this certainly did it. As did Kyle Williams. But I'm
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: also really excited about the pairing with Remandre. I think
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: the two of those guys together are thunder and lightning.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Like they have a power downhill back with Remandre and
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: now they have a real explosive back with Traveon.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Henders, and they can kind of get back to that
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: early down passing down back thing too. Certainly, both guys
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: are relatively rounded. I think Henderson's incredibly well rounded. But
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: that's the interesting thing. Like people are gonna compare him
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: to James White. That was a lot of it after
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the draft, and I think he can play that James
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: White role, but he can do it differently because he's
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a better traditional run player than the players the Patriots
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: have usually had in that role. James White wasn't somebody
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: you were getting under center and handing it off to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: in the a gap, right, There wasn't a ton of that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: And look, it was because they won the Super Bowl.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: But like if you remember in twenty eighteen, one of
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the big storylines that year was based on the running
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: back usage the offense becoming too predictable. I think they
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: were running the ball like sixty something percent of the
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: time when Sony Michelle was on the field, which again
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: they won the Super Bowl ultimately whatever, but they don't
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: exactly have the offensive line now that they had then.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: So what Tradeon Henderson does is he removes some of
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: that predictability and Ramonder Stevenson to an extent as well,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: because he's gonna handle himself in the pass game. He's
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: not quite the receiver Henderson is, but he's not somebody
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: all right, well, Henderson's in the game, you know, because
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you're seeing in the huddle, you're not seeing it as
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: a defense. When they break to the formation. You know,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: James White goes in the huddle, all right, let's go light,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: you're gonna pass. Let's get ready to match up. Henderson
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: could be in the huddle and you're thinking, all right,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: they're going pass, let's go nickel, let's go dime, whatever.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And now they come out under center and they motioned
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the tight end in and suddenly they're ready to run
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: power or something like that. So you weren't necessarily doing
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: that with guys like James White, or guys like Danny
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Woodhead or guys like Shane Vereen. So as long as
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: they've kind of done this dichotomy of early down passing down.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: The early down back is usually the lead back, and
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: he's the guy that's gonna be on the field more.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So this might look a little different where I think
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: it'll still be early down passing down, but the passing
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: down back is going to be the lead back. He's
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the guy who's gonna play more. I don't think Henderson's
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: a feature back. That was the big concern at High
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: or one of the big concerns Ohio State. He had
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: some durability issues early in his career. That's what part
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: of the reason they went out and got Quinn Shawn
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Judkins in the transfer portal. But I don't think Henderson
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: needs to be a feature back. He's not somebody that
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: needs to carry the ball three hundred times in a
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: season to justify that pick. So, but lead back means
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: he's gonna get the majority. He's gonna be the starting
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: running back, if you want to call it that, even
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: though you know he is not necessarily gonna start every game.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: But I think he can be the lead back wherez
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Stevenson will still play a significant role, but it might
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: not be as big. He might be the second running
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: back on the roster.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: So It's interesting because I agree with you, and I've
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: heard a lot about him as receiving ups and yeah,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: that's certainly a big part of it. He averaged over
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: eleven yards per catch at at Ohio State for his career.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Like I said, awesome, pass protector, awesome and blitz pick up.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: But I don't think it's correct or fair, I guess
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is the better word. I don't think it's fair to
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: call Henderson a receiving back. I think Henderson is a
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: true change of paceback, like he's a true speedback, change
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: of pace back. And one of the things that I've
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: been thinking about with this pick is that we have
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: seen especially last year, and maybe it changes with Josh
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: McDaniels and as they get this thing up and running
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and they have better players around him. But there's no
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: doubt about it in my mind that Drake may is
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: more comfortable in the shotgun than he is under center.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And that's just the nature of the beast. With these
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: young quarterbacks these days, they're all in these spread offenses,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: these air raids, these RPOs, things like that, Like they're
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: all doing the same stuff in college football for the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: most part. So that's the beast, right now you have
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to be able to cater your offense to that type
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: of team. And if the Patriots are going to be
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: a gun run team, if they're going to be heavy
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: in that respect in terms of shotgun versus under center split,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: then I love Ramandre Stevenson as a player. I think
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: last year was a blip. I think he's a better
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: player than what he showed on tape in twenty twenty four.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: But he's not necessarily a gun run back. Gun run
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: backs are water bugs. Gun run backs have great speed
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: instance stop start acceleration because they don't get a run
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: up to the line of scrimmage. Like if you're under
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: center and you're in a power eye or whatever and
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the back is all the way, you know, eight yards
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: in the backfield, then they have that run up to
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage to come up and hit the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: line of scrimmage harder. When you're in the gun, you're
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: at a standstill, you're sitting offset to the quarterback, and
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you don't have that run up. So you need to
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: have guys that have really good explosiveness and really good
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: ten yard splits. You also want guys that can dance,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: you know, out of early penetration and things like that.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: So when I start to look at the way they
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: might build this offense under Josh McDaniels with Drake May
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and think about the Travon Henderson pick, Travon Henderson is
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: a classic gun back, like, he's a classic gun run
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: RPO read option that type of running back. So if
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: they're going to lean into that sort of way of
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: doing things offensively, then they needed somebody in this mold
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: like they needed somebody that could do that sort of thing.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I am sure. I just we've both had Josh McDaniels
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: in our football worlds for a very long time. I
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: am sure there will be a time and place where
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be Remondra Stevenson in the power eye with
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: a full back in front of Yeah, there will be
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: a time and place for all of that. But my
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: guess is that we are going to see a lot
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: more shotgun than maybe they did with McDaniels in the past.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And you know, if that's the case, then this is
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the type of running back that fits that type of mold.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: My guess is, when I was just kind of looking
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: up some usage how McDaniel's split running backs in the past,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: my guess is, once they get it going, and maybe
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: they east Henderson into it, we'll see, depending on where
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: he's at a camp. But like, if they get it
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: where they want to get it, my guess is it's
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: going to be like sixty forty Henderson.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd call it.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Fifty five thirty five with the other ten percent going
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to Gibson or Lean laris In or somebody.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And that's basically what it is in Detroit at this point,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: is that Jamir Gibbs is the featured back, but it's
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: not necessarily the volume that you might see it for.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: You know, true Bell.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Caek So feature to me is bell cow I used
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: this terminology earlier. I don't know if this is like
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: how everybody does it. This was his mine. So feature
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: back is remember that they asked Bill about they Corey
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Dillon in two thousand and four. Feature back is Derrick Henry.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Feature back is right. Lead back just means the majority,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: but he's not, okay, like a heavy usage.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: That's but I.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Would That's That's where I'm at with Henderson. I don't
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: think he's a feature back, but I think he'll end
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: up being the lead back.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, I really again, it's a
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: stylistic thing to me more than anything that if they're
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: going to play that kind of authensic cater to Drake May,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: then he's their guy.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: He's the type of guy we're going to go under center.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: More like, they still needed speed even from under center.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: They needed more speed, especially at that position, and they
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: got more speed and breakaway ability.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, speaking to speed, this
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: is a good pace. We're not we're not getting bogged
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: down too much yet we will.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: We're twenty minutes in two picks. Okay, we're doing ten
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: minutes a pick.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not bad Like normally this would be like us
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: deliberating a pick for like twenty and.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: It'll also get a little shorter as we go. But
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I do want to get to the udfas. Don't want
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: to make sure we have time.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: For me too. All Right, the next pick, I'm gonna
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: do a golf clap. I want you to take a
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: victory lap. I want you to go ahead. I'm going
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to clear the decks for you right now. Kyle Williams
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: six ninth. Overall, nice, nice to the Patriots from Washington State,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and I'm doing the golf clap. Yeah for Alex here
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: because you told me about Kyle Williams before the Senior Bowl.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: This was your guy. You were on it, and he
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: just quickly crept up the board or not so quickly, honestly.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It was just kind of all of a sudden, like
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: two weeks ago.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like steadily is a better word. Yeah, crept up
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: the board. Great Senior Bowl week that I slept on.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Feel bad about that.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you next year, just remember this. The last
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: guy up in the reps. Yeah you don't, because you're
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: like onto the next thing, right, Yeah, the last guy
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: up in there, because I'm guilty of this a training camp.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: The last guy up in the reps. You gotta pay
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: attention to. So because he just lapped.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Up like every sneaky sneaky good Senior Bowl when ESPN
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: was going commercial and everybody comes out of the Senior
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Bowl week asking of Jalen Nole for rightfully, so he
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: had a great week. He's a good player. I still
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: like Jalen Nole a lot, and nobody you know, he
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: was kind of still gotten a little bit. There he
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: goes to the combine, he puts down the four to four.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Then people started to rewatch the film maybe or even
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: just get to the film in general. Like me that
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: was late to it. I will give it kills me.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: It pains me to do this, like one percent of
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: the credit to Chris Simms, because Chris Simms came out
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: and ran ranked him as like the second best receiver
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: in the class, and everybody said, whoa, Kyle Williams second
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: best receiver in the class? What am I missing here?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: But nobody, nobody was earlier to Kyle Williams than this man.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: The Washington State coaching staff was we got to get
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: that credit. But from a draft point of view, yeah,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I And again we'll have that interview with Dane later
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and I actually kind of asked him about why maybe
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: that was. And there's a couple different reasons, but the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: big thing for me to get to Kyle Williams's pick.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I won't go back and read through the text I
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: sent you on.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: January enough stroking your ego twenty fifth.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: When I said, why is this guy eight hundred on
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the consensus board? What am I missing? Eight hundred on
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: the cons his sport. But the big thing for me,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: so I think part of the reason he went later
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: he's a late breakout player He's at UNLV for three years,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: transferred to Washington State in twenty twenty three. He had
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: a solid year, he had eight hundred yards, like he
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: wasn't bad, but last year goes off top ten in
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the nation and receiving all of that. And I actually,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and I wrote about this on ninety eight five the
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: sports sub dot com if people want to check it out.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I actually I asked him after the pick, like, what
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: changed for you? Right? Did he focus on something or
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: emphasize something in his game to allow that breakout season happen?
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: And he mentioned after the catch specifically, he said he
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: wants to extend plays. He specifically said being able to
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: turn a five yard hitch into a sixty yard touchdown,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a three yard screen into a sixty yard touchdown, which he.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Literally did at Washington State. Right, one was against Syracuse.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: In the other one, I'm blanking on the team he
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: was playing against, but he.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Literally Syracuse one was a slat. But I know you're
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Yeah, So he went from averaging
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: five point five yards per carry in or five point
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: five yards after the catch for his career. That number
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: jumped to eight point four in twenty twenty four. The
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Patriots meanwhile ranked twenty fifth as a whole in yards
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: after the catch in the NFL last year the wide
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: receivers alone, so as a team they averaged five flat
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: after the catch. The wide receivers alone averaged four, So
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Kyle Williams last year Washington State was more than double that.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: That's why I love this pick. He's going to be
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: able to play all three spots X Z slot he
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: gets open, he has separation metrics improved a lot last
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: year as well, and then because he gets so open,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: he can run after the catch. Now it's one year
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of production, so he's a little less proven and I
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: don't think the drop issues are as big as some
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: people are making them. But he's not exactly the most
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: short handed guy, so that's why he fell. But if
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: they can get that figured out, and by the way,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I think him working with Stefan Diggs is going to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: be amazing because there are some similarities there. Certainly, at
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: least to me. I think he's a guy that can
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: be maybe a low end number one, certainly a high
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: end number two. I you know, doesn't quite have the
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: size to be that true like number one X guy,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: but just his ability to create after the catch, which
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: he clearly worked on a lot last year. They desperately
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: needed that. I don't know the last time. The reason, Like,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I'm so nervous to say I like, I feel like
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: they're in a position to maximize Kyle Williams. Yeah, and
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I'm nervous to say that because we've seen how it's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: gone for wide receivers the last few years. But I
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: don't know the last time they had a wide receiver
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: with this makeup. Like, he's not the big slot, He's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: not Jalen Polk, he's not a contested catch X. He's
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: not Jaevon Baker, Nikhil Harry. He probably profiles closest to Pop,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: But Pop's not going to be outside playing the X.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Pop's not running you know, some of the deeper rats
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: that he's running. So this is the kind of wide
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: receiver we've wanted them to invest in for a long
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: time that they just haven't.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's a great fit for Josh McDaniels, who
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I agree that. You know, one of the things with
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: the draft is there's always these coin flip decisions, right,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Like they pick Kyle Williams. I had Jalen Nole in
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: full disclosure, I as with a higher grade than with
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Kyle Williams, you know, higher up my rankings, I should say,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: uh than Kyle Williams. So the honest question for people
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: that followed us pre draft and you know, looked at
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: my spreadsheet and my rankings and stuff, is well, why
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden are you now you know, big
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Kyle Williams guy right, like you know what, shouldn't you
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: be saying that they should have drafted Jalen Nole? But
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I think one of the coin flips and one of
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the decisions here is about why did they draft the
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: player in Kyle Williams over Nol? And I think the
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: biggest reason is something that you hit on, is that
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Kyle Williams has a little bit more ability to project
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: as an outside receiver.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I think there's a little bit more there in terms
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: of him playing on the outside, whether it's as a
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: true X or whatever you want to call it. Then
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: with Noel Noll, I think profiled for pretty much ever
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: everybody as a true speed slot like he was an
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: inside receiver. That was what he was going to be
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: in the NFL. Level. With Kyle Williams, there's a lot
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: of really encouraging release work as an outside receiver. That
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: gives you hope that he maybe can play closer to
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: like a fifty to fifty split ideally, especially in this offense,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: he is a chess piece that Josh McDaniels is moving
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: all around the formation to get him free release off
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage. Whether it's in motion, it's a stack,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: it's a bunch, it's a slot rep, you know, whatever
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: the case may be, just hunting re releases all over
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the field because when he gets those free releases, like
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the play against Syracuse. Yeah, the Patriots have historically called
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: that too lane. It's they have that concept in their
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: offense where the receiver on the line of scrimmage kind
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: of runs a vertical, but he's really running a pick
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: like he's kind of running a rub right, and that's
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: going to create that pocket of space underneath the defense.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: And Kyle Williams actually has an option on that route.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: He can break in, or he can break out, or
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: he can settle against zone coverage, and he's just going
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: to rede leverage of the defender. So when the defender
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: sets up outside of him and he just breaks into
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: the middle of the field and then he's then he's
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: on the runway right, he's just shot out of a
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: cannon and houses it against against Syracuse in the Bowl
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: game last year. Those types of routes are typically run
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: by the Z receiver in this offense. But that's allus like,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: it's kind of not here North there. It doesn't really matter.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: The point is is that you can see Kyle Williams
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: doing things that easily translate right into Josh mcdaniels's scheme,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: whereas I don't know if you could necessarily do that
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: with their past picks at receiver. What was Nikhil Harry's
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: fit in Josh mcdaniels's.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Office, It never made sense, right.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: What was Taekwon Thornton's fit? A sacrificial But he drafted
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: a sacrificial X with the fiftieth.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: And he kept part of that too, is his injuries
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: kept getting hurt.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Right, But it just didn't feel like he wasn't a technician.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: He he was in a great yards after catch guy.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: He wasn't a quick hitter guy. He wasn't an early separator.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: He wasn't a quick separator off the line of scrimmage.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: They drafted a vertical X receiver to play in an
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: offense that doesn't feature vertical X receivers. With Jalen Polk,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I think there was a little bit more translation of
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: what they used to do in the past, but probably
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: not as much translation in an Alex Van Pelt offense,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: which is what they were drafting for at the time.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: So it just seems like this player has a great
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: marriage between what he does well, what McDaniels wants to feature,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: and what the team needed, and all three of those
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: things kind of came together with Kyle Williams in a
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: really nice way. So the rep that I keep going
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: back to other than the Syracuse one just because it's
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: a concept that I've seen the Patriots run a million
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: times is twenty twenty three when he runs right by
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Travis Hunter. Like that ability on the outside to just
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: stack and separate on a go route outside the numbers
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: on the best cornerback in the name like that, you
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: hope is going to translate a little bit more then
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: let's say, like a Jail and Nole would have done.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Whereas you know, Nole is probably a little bit more
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: polished as a route runner right now in terms of
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the technique and the top of the route and all
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So I wanted to try to
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: do comps for most of these guys. I think it
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: helps people understand. I think the archetype the ceiling of
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: this mold is Garrett Wilson. And I don't know if
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: he's Garrett Wilson, like I've heard that comp with him.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Garrett Wilson was I believe the eleventh or twelfth overall
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: pick in his draft, absolute stud offensive, Rookie of the Year,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: perennial Pro bowler. That is a very high bar for
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: the sixty ninth overall pick in the draft. I don't
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: know if Kyle Williams is going to get to Garrett
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: wilson territory.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Williams also had much more runways just you know, yeah,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: he broke out younger.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So I would say the guy that I've gravitated towards,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and just because from a measurable standpoint and a play
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: style standpoint, is you shot Bateman in Baltimore, And I know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Rashat Bateman sounds like a bust when you say the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: name ra Shod Bateman. He had a really nice year
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: last year for Baltimore when he was finally healthy. He's
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: battled injuries in Baltimore. There's no doubt about that. But
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I'm just talking about turning on the film and watching
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: the player, like not necessarily slistically, right, taking on all
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: the injury baggage and stuff like that. If you watch
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Rashat Bateman last year with the Baltimore Ravens, he was
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: like a top twenty, top twenty five receiver in the league.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Let's not forget not only was has he been heard
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: They don't throw the ball a ton in Baltimore, right,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: so you have to adjust a lot of their numbers
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: for the fact that they are a run heavy offense.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: So I like Rashaw Baby maybe a little bit more
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: than other people, but I think that Kyle Williams is
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: a similar kind of player. Really, just a lot to
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: like about the pick in terms of the schematic fit
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: and all those different things. The last thing I wanted
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: to say about Kyle Williams, where do we see this going?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Because right now I think they have like eleven or
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: twelve depending on the UDFA signings wide receivers on the roster.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: This is going to be probably the number one question.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Would you remember a couple of years ago, was it
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: last year? Two years ago? They literally didn't have enough
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: receivers in like the spring because some guys were hurt.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they have twelve. I have them with twelve
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: receivers right now, and this is including udfhase, which are
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: not official. I should put that out there.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: This is they signed what reportedly signed with three.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Three So yeah, I'll just rd them off quickly. Diggs, mccollins,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Pop Douglas, Kyle Williams. I think those four guys I
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: had them at the top of the list because they're
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: going to be on the roster in some way, shape
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: or form. Digs might be on pup, but he's going
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: to be on the team. We know that. Kendrick Bourne,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Kashawan Boody, the picks last year, Polkin Baker, John Giles
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: is still kicking around, e FT and Chisholm. Who I
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: want to get to when we get to the udfas
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: demere blankh Moosy blank of Moosey.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah wait, hang on, I got I know I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: can pronounce it if I'm reading it.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Very sorry. I think it's Blank Music, Blank Museum and
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Jeremiah Webb. Those are their twelve receivers right now, including
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: the udfas. How do we see on April thirtieth, with
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: absolutely zero practices that we've watched or witnessed at this point,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: how do you see this room shaking out? Or I
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: think a better question is for right now, you know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: who's the one guy that you really feel like is
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: going to be an odd man out. I think it's
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: hard right now just to sit here and say without
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: seeing even any OTA's exactly how they look at the room.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so those four off the top right,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I still think people are gonna criticize me for this
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: because he's been my guy for I still think Kendrick
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Horne is a good shot to make the team because
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: it went so well with him and Josh McDaniels last time.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: And I just think McDaniels likes him. So that's five, right,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: And then it comes down to Kashawan, Boody and the
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: two rookies for that last spot or the two rookies
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: from last year for that last spot. They've shown it
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: they're not afraid of significant roster turnover. That was another
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: takeaway for me from this draft and just the way
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: they kind of went about and really the off seas
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: as a whole. People were, you know, talking back in
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: January about you know, you got a clean house. How
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: much the roster can they change people? Kind of facetiously
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: saying keep Drake, keep Christian Zalez, move on from the rest.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And I was there saying, like, realistically, like forty to
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: forty five percent is a pretty significant roster turnover from
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: one year to another in the NFL generally, that's the case.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I think that they're going beyond the typical here. I
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: think it's gonna be well in this is I'm talking
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: forty to forty five percent. That's fifty three man roster
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: week eighteen to fifty three men roster week one. We
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: still got a ways to go before we get to
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: the initial fifty three man roster, but it might be
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: over fifty percent. So you know, Born Booty, Pulk Baker.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think any of those guys are safe, especially
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you know, just one of the udfases, Eft and Chisel
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: make a push. So it's those four are gonna make it.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Pop Hollins Digs if he's not on pup, and then
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Kyle Williams, right, those four will make it. After that,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's wide open for one, maybe maybe two spots.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: There's gonna be some guys that get cut that I
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: don't know surprise is the right word, but.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Have some NFL talent NFL ability. I've come around to
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Kayshawan Boody a little bit, just because stylistically, again, if
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: you need that sacrificial X, like that true sacrificial X
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: that we've seen here in the past with Josh McDaniels,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Nelson Aguilar, right, like, someone like that, that's kind of
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Kaysehan Boody to me is a guy that can run
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: verticals on the outside, do a pretty good job with it,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: maybe occasionally catch a slant or something underneath off of
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: the vertical stem, and every once in a while he's
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: gonna sneak behind Derek Stingley for a bomb, right And
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: if that's all that role is in this offense moving forward,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: then he showed last year that he has the ability
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: to do that at an NFL level. So has Javon
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Baker proven that. No has Jalen Polk, even though I
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: think he'll get a really really strong chance as a
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: second round pick in his second year. Neither one of
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: those guys have shown yet that they can do anything
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: NFL caliber like Keayshawn Booty has. So it seems odd
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: to me. And this it's a trade, and because he
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: has the most value in a trade, that could maybe
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: make some sense that they deal Booty to get some
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: something better.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Unless they just think Mac Collins is gonna do that.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I feel like Booty gets down the field
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: a little bit better than Mac Collins. But I could
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: see that. I just out of all these guys, I
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: feel like Booty I've come around the most two uh
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: being on the team.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Javon Baker blank demere blank emcy blank emcy.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, Javon Baker is squarely on the bubble like that.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: He's gonna need a really really good camp. I would
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: say he's probably gonna need a really good offseason, like
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: it's gonna OTAs included mini camp, training camp all the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: way through. He's gonna have to be consistent and he's
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: gonna to be good.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: It's even on the bubble or is he on the
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: outside looking at.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Probably on the outside looking yeah, to be more fair
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: about it, all right, anything else on Kyle Williams.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: No, I think that's other than your victory kind of
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: killed their pace there, No.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: That's okay, that was worth it. That was a good pick.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: All right, next one here, Jared Wilson, ninety fifth overall
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: center from Georgia.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Let me point out first real quick. They traded down
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: twice to get him. Yeah, so I was harping future picks,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: future picks, future picks.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Got one they got on twenty twenty six, fourth.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Right, So nice pick, and some people think the Bears
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: might be really bad. I was kind of surprised how
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: many people were, like, that could be a top hundred
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: ten pick, but like you take that, they also a
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: future sixth and seventh. Yeah, if the Bears are bad
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: enough that fourth plus that sixth, maybe you're back in
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the top one hundred.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's a it's it's not a bad a
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: bad asset to have. Yeah, in the old tool belt, Okay,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Jared Wilson. I I feel a little bit like, because
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: he's a center, people are not talking enough of about
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Jared Wilson as a part of this foursome of offensive
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: players that they drafted out the top. It's not the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: fourth overall pick, it's not too flashy skill players. So
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: I get it. I get that it's a center, But
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: besides Campbell, I feel like there's a really nice floor
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: to Jared Wilson where I feel pretty comfortable projecting Jared
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Wilson as a starter at some point. I don't know
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: if it will be right out of the gate. It
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: might be midway through his rookie year, his second year,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: even maybe he's the sixth man on the offensive line
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: next year as like a three interior three interior spot player.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: But everything that I've watched of him and everything I've
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: heard of about Jared Wilson is that this is a
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: center that is really dynamic. And when you talk about centers,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: just like a Mike linebacker on defense, the center kind
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: of sets the pace for the offensive line in the
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: run game. So if you want to be dynamic downhill
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: run scheme that can get to the second level, and
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: you want to get out up to the second level
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: and get those interior guys into combinations and get them
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: up to the second level, or you want to run
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: stretch or outside zone to get to the numbers, the
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: center is the one that's setting the pace of that.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: So if you want to do those types of things,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: which I think the Patriots want to do more the
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: former than the latter, an athletics center really helps. And
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: when you look across the league at guys that have
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: his level of athleticism, whether you know it's Eric McCoy
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: and New Orleans or you know, Jason Kelsey's kind of
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: the apex of that, right, you know, he's the top
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: tier of this. When you look at those types of guys,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: it just opens a lot of what you are able
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: to do schematically, whether it's run game, screen game, moving pockets,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: things like that. So that's why I would say that
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited or high on the pick with Jared
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Wilson is because of his athleticism. Center position, you're not
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: normally covered these days, like maybe there's a shade over
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: your outside shoulder that you have to in a slide
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: you'd have to get to, or on a reach or
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: something like that. On the line of scrimmage double team
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: obviously you're getting to. But you're not a lot of
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: hit up rushers anymore these days over the center, especially
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: on early downs, and teams don't play with a ton
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: of zero technique nose tackles. So he's more of an
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: athletic center. Wide body, like his frame, like the way
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: he carries the weight as well. I just think that
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: this guy has a really nice floor to him as
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: the ninety fifth pick. When you pick ninety five, he's
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: kind of two ways to go about it. You can
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: either pick a guy that has first round traits but
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a first round pedigree, or you can pick
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: a guy that's getting on base right. You can go
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: both ways. Jared Wilson kind of splits the atom to
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: me because he's got the athleticism to have a high upside,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: and he's young and he only had that one year
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: of starting at Georgia. But he's all also a guy
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: that I feel like could probably start at center, Like
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: if they had an honest competition between him and Garrett
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Bradbury in camp, I think Jared Wilson might win the competition.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And I think they might have that competition. Yeah, to me,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: that's what this is all about. How long can get?
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: So we talk sometimes about you know, day one starter,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Year one starter, right, where a day one starter is
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: a guy Will Campbell. How many's gonna be the left
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: tack was no question about it. Year one starter is
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: a guy that, okay, like he might not be ready
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to go week one of his rookie year, but by
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the end of his rookie year he should be the starter.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I think Jared Wilson is in that category. Yeah, he's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: a year one starter. It's just about how long Bradbury
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: can hold him off. And maybe who knows, maybe it
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: is week one. But like I think Jared Wilson is
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: going to be the starting center by the end of
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the year. I know Elliott Wolf said that they think
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: he can play some guard. To me, that's probably more
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: an emergency thing. Yeah, and you know, if they really
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: need somebody. I don't think he's going to be fully
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: in there competing for that left guard role. I think
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: it's more if they need him there, fine, but they
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: want to develop as a center because he has the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: ability to be a long term center in the NFL.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: You mentioned the athleticism. The other thing is he's an
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: incredibly smart football player. Yeah, and the commands going back
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: to the quarterback. We think with Josh McDaniels were last
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: year it was the center setting all those protections. But
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: the center is still going to help in that and
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: the center's still gonna help communicate along the offensive line.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Guy that's really smart, really athletic. If he was a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: two year starter, I think he probably goes top fifty. Yeah,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: you know, he was the first center off the board.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I just think what was tough for him is in
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: this draft there is a lot of experience lineman. Two
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: three four year starters on the offensive line, his one
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: year starter and he really didn't play a ton before
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: that at all at Georgia. Like, he's really raw. So
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: if you you know, read the scouting reports that are
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: on there, they talk about hand placement, they talk about,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: you know, his footwork and things like that. I'm not
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: saying that those knocks are wrong, but it's he looks
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: like a guy that hasn't played a lot of football
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: because he hasn't a lot of that stuff is very fixable.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: It's just gonna come with reps. The preseason is gonna
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: be huge for him. He will be one of the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: most important players to watch this preseason and we'll see
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: if he can kind of learn quickly and grow quickly.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I think he can push Bradberry sooner rather than later.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest thing with him, like you said,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I just looked it up real quick. Drew
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Kendall from Boston College. You went to the Eagles. He
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: had thirty seven career starts at Boston College. At center.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Wilson only had twelve at Georgia. So especially when you
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: talk about centers and you talk about the responsibility mentally
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: on centers. Normally, when you get guys in the draft
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: that play center, unless they're like Zabel, who's like a
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: tackle or a guard that's moving to center. Guys that
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: were career centers that are getting drafted as centers, those
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: guys are like three, four, sometimes even five year starters,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: like they might have upwards of forty to fifty starts
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: in college. So you're talking about guys that have a
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: ton of experience. That's not Jared Wilson. He's a guy
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: that has a ton of upside and a ton of ability,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: but doesn't have the experience. Now, the one thing that
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: did make me feel a little bit better when I
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: was talking to some of his coaches at Georgia, they
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: pointed out in practice over the last couple of years
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: he's been running scout team until this most recent year,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: think about the Georgia interior defensive lineman that he's been
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: facing on scout team for his freshman and sophomore year.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: They the way they put it to me was that
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: practice might have been harder than some of the games
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: that he was going to be playing in. Now it's
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: a different energy, right, it's a different moment, it's a
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: different environment. But in terms of the skill and the
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: talent he was going up against in practice at Georgia,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: they obviously have a ton of just ridiculous players there
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: that have come through there on the interior defensive line.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: So in some ways, like he's almost battle tested, but
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: just behind the scenes in a weird way, so that
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: that would be interesting. You mentioned Guard. I agree with
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: you well that long term, there's no doubt about it,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: that centers his best position and having like I said earlier,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: having a dynamic center that can do different things on
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: the move, and I can also really quickly side note,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: we're watching Good Morning Football on this side screen and
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Trags was just on Good Morning. Oh yeah, saw the
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Let's Go track, the Clinton is Mike flag and everything. Anyway, sorry,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: that was just distracting, uh our guy track shout out Trags. Uh.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Like I said earlier, you know, just letting him just
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: unlocking him at the center position to climb to get
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: out in front of blocks in the screen game. I
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: go watch him against Tennessee, just like you know, clipping
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: guys in space right, Like, that's what he does at
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: his best, and I think that he gets the most.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: You get the most out of that if he plays center.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: So I would assume he's going to play center long term.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: But is there a world where their best five includes
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: him and Bradbury?
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Because I think there is, there could be. I mean,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: maybe he.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Plays a little bit of left guard as aokie.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I would just say, like they got I get wanting
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: guys to be able to play multiple positions. I'm not
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: against that philosophically, but there is a tipping point where
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: the guy's got to learn the position he's gonna play.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And last year's coaching staff was way too In across
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: training we talked about this. There was you know, you're
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: trying to get Kate Wallace to move from right to left.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: You're playing right left, you're playing MC guard. It's like, no,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: he has learn he has to play the position you're
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: trying to teach him. And so with Jared Wilson, he's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: best long term at center. So if they think that's
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: what's best for him to play center long term, fine,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: But if it's not that much of a gap between
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: him and whoever the next best left guard is I
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: would almost just let him keep working at center, just
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: because that's really where you need him to develop and learn. Now,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: maybe that is playing left guard. Maybe they think the
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: best way to do that is by playing left guard.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: But I would make all my decisions regarding him about
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: getting him ready to be Drake may center for the
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: next ten years.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Fair Enough. The only reason why I brought up the
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: left guard thing, because I mostly agree with what you
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: just said, is because he might be the best blocker
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: to play that position. And if he's really ready, but
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: you don't feel like he's mentally ready to be the center,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: then he can play left guard where he has none
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: of the mental you're you're still getting him on the
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: field and he's still playing.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not rolling out entirely. I just I think that
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: there's tremendous value in him playing center, and I want
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: that to be where he hands up long term.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: All right, let's move on to day three. We're we're
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: cruising a little bit. We've got a little bit bogged
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: down there, but we're all right. Uh. Craig Woodson in
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: the fourth round, one of six overall from cal Now,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: to be perfectly honest, if I had to grade the
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Patriots draft, Yeah, I would give them an A minus.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: And the reason why I wouldn't give them an A
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: is because I didn't love this pick. This was not
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: the pick I would have personally made. Now that doesn't
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: mean anything. In two to three years, they could Craig
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Woodson could end up being really good exactly.
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: But with that being said, this was the only pick
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: in the entire draft that they broke off consensus. So
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: this is the only pick that they kind of went
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: out on a limb on a little bit, both you
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and I and I want to speak for you, but
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is the case. Saw Billy Bowman
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: and Malchai Moore as better players than Craig woods Yeah,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: and they went right after Craig Woodson in the fourth round.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: There was a little run on safeties, so they read
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: the run correctly. They I believed that maybe there was
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: some interest in Kevin Winston, the Penn State safety that
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: went at the end of Day two, So they read
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the run correctly. They jumped on Woodson before the kid
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: from Ohio State went. Was it Latham Lately, Ransom, Malchi Moore,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Billy Bowman, all those guys Williams dinner. They all went
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: in like the span of like thirty two picks. Yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: so they read the run and they got their guy
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: in Woodson, unless it was Winston in the third round,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: but they ended up getting one of their guys in Woodson.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: To start on the positives with Woodson and then I
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: want to talk about kind of unpack why they might
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: have went with Woodson instead of more or Billy Bowman,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: who we liked better Woodson when I watched him on tape,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: what I liked the most about him was his reactions
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: in space or his instincts in space. I think he's
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: got a really good motor, athleticism, physical nature to his game.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Could play demeanor, can strike the football, can separate the
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: ball from receivers coming over the middle of the field,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: really good at rotating into the box or starting down
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: low and run support, screen support, perimeter support, all those
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: different types of things that you do. He's got some
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: experience at Nickel. I'll get to that in a second.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I think there are is and you got a lot
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: of this question. I'm sure you did too. You know,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: could he be Deron Harmon right?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Can he play free safety over the top? I do
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: think he can do that. I don't think it's he's
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: not going to be Devin mccorty. He's probably gonna be
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: closer to de Ron Harmon, But I do think he
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: has the ability to do that. They played a lot
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: of split safety coverage in cal but they rotated their safeties.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that we've heard a lot
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: about from the Patriots coaching staff and a couple times
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: we've gotten to speak with the position coaches is that
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: they want to be interchangeable at the safety position. They
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: don't want this guy's free safety, that guy's strong safety,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: this guy's playing post, that guy's playing robber, and to
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: have teams be able to predict which ones which on
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: a down to down basis. So when it comes to
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: why they took Whitston over Bowman, why they took him
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: over more, I think the main reason is his size.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Like he's got a little bit more size. He's over
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: six feet two hundred and five pounds. Bowman and Moore
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: were like five ten five eleven one ninety ish. So
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: if they're going to be interchangeable at safety, and they're
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: going to want him to rotate down and fly down
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: into the box, and put his hat his hat in
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: the run game. He's got a little bit more size
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: and a little bit more kirk to him and you know,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: mass to his frame to be able to handle the
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: run responsibilities of doing that. So, if I had to guess,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: it's probably like a size profile that they just preferred
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: with Woodson over the guys we like.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: They didn't. Yeah, we wanted a true free safety. They
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: wanted somebody like you said, he can do both a phil.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Phil Perry pointed out some similarities to guys like Kevin
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Byerd and Kenny Vacaro, who Mike Rabel obviously had in Tennessee.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: So I don't think we're gonna maybe it's Marcus EPs
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: like situationally, but I don't think we're gonna see that
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: true dedicated free safety this year. I think it's still
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: gonna be rotating with Dougar and Peppers and Woodson and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: moving guys around there.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Now, the other thing that he had to done a
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: little bit Woodson is play the nickel, and Elliott Wolf
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: alluded to it after the draft or one of his
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: don't know, I'll kind of bund it together one of
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: his pre draft press conferences or post draft press conferences
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: excuse me. Over the weekend, he alluded to the big
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: nickel being in this defense and having a guy that
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: isn't Marcus Jones body type, but is more of like
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: a Craig Woodson body type frankly right, like a guy
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: that's maybe pushing over two hundred pounds that can cover.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: The one thing that I hesitated with with with Woodson
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: UH and that role is I thought his man coverage
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: tape was a little bit inconsistent, UH watching him against Syracuse, UH,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: he faced Gats in their tight end a handful of times,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: and I thought Gatson got the better of the matchup.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I thought he struggled in man coverage against him. So
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: that's a that's a receiving tight end, Like, that's what
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Gatson's really like, a big slot receiver.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: He was.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that that's his specialty. But I don't know
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: if I saw the transitions or the smoothness and his
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: hips uh and his in his transitions to be able
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: to stick in man to man coverage against dynamic tight ends.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: We'll see maybe maybe they cleaned that up. Maybe that
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: was just one game and he cleans that up moving forward.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't necessarily say I thought he was a
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: high end man coverage player. I thought he was a
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: little bit on the lower end in that vein. But
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: what I did like about him a lot, like I said,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: was his ability to track the football in terms of
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: like having eyes in the backfield on the quarterback and
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: the backfield action and then making place.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: He also talked about Woodson himself set some long lines
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: like I love contact, I'd love to hit people, whatever
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: that means. Like his athletic profile, that demeanor. He's going
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: to be a stud on special teams.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: So I think that's probably part of it.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's a great point. Fourth round pick probably
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: projects as like a third safety.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Third safety, key special teamer. You know, they'll see when
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: those Duggers and Pepper's contracts start to run up, you know,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: steps into a bigger role in a couple of years.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: But I see what they're going for with to pick,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Like I understand why they made it. I personally would
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: have gone in a different direction, but like you said,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what we would have done.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Yep. Fair enough. And just last thing on Woodson and
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: that that point, I the consensus. The consensus. I think
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's fair to share that information. Like I said,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: this was the first pick that really broke from consensus. Well,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: but he was in like the one eighties on most
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: consensus board.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: No, but didn't a lot of like like Brugler had
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: him fourth round, right, Dane had a sixth round.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Right now.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I thought I saw some of the national guys.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: So the one, the one national guy that had him
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: higher was Daniel Jeremiah. Daniel Jeremiah was really big on Woodson.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: He had really nice things to say on the broadcast
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: about how he didn't see what everybody else was missing
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: with you know, he thought he was crazy thinking that
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: this guy was better than everybody else did. And he
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: was really high on the pick. So hopefully DJ ends
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: up being right. You know that tends to Yeah, So
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: that that's Craig Woodson. Oh yeah, this was the other
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: thing I wanted to say about him before we move on.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot of conversations out there
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: about safety not being in need, and I feel like
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: we were all over safety as a potential need not
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: to like toot our own horns. But Kyle Duggart did
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: not have the or that they wanted him to have
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: last year, he was hurt, he didn't play well when
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: he was out there. We all know what happened with
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Jabrill Peppers off the field. Like, there's not a whole
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: lot of security right now in terms of those two
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: guys like being what they thought they were going to
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: be when they signed those extensions. So as much as
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily see Woodson pushing either one as like
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: a starting safety to begin with, I don't think that
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: it's that crazy that they targeted a good.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Spots have depth. I thought, well, I was saying safety
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: in the need of the you know, free safety kind
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: of thing, but yeah.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Joshua Farmer one of my favorite picks
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: of the draft. Both these guys, I thought, just the
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: value that they got out of Farmer and Swinson picking
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: them where they did, probably at least in Farmer's case,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: maybe more like a half around later than people expected. Swinston,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: I would say, a round or two later than a
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: lot of people expected. So really good value with both
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: these players. And what I like about both of them
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: together is that one sort of like a hybrid tweeer
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: defensive end defensive tackle. One's like a true edge rusher,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: you know, it's off the outside the tackle. So like
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: together they make a nice kind of situational player.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where if they're gonna they're gonna be high five
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and a lot coming on and off the field.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So Farmer can play on inside, you know, defensive end,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: like I said, hand the dirt end or handing the
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: dirt defensive tackle on early downs. Swinson can be a
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: pass for a specialist on third down. And you have
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: this nice little like you said, high fiving each other
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: kind of reminds me different positions, but like similar to
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: like Anthony Jennings and Joshua uch right, or like together
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: they're a complete player. Like they aren't good complete players individually,
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: but together they're a complete player. With Farmers specifically, a
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: couple of things that stand out. On the positive end,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: his upper body twitch and power and length are just
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: very noticeable. The second debt you turn on the tape,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: he has thirty five in charms. So this is a
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: long armed, powerful, well built human being that really didn't
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: necessarily play to his trades all the time. But I
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: love the chance that they're taking here with Ray Bowl
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: with Terrell Williams. Like, give Terrell Williams right the raw
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: tools the guy, and let's see if Terrell Williams can
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: seizon him up and can round about his game farmer,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: very strong at the point of attack, very good length,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: very good pressing, shed ability, Like there's a ton of
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: evidence of him just rocking an offensive lineman back and
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: just throwing him to the side, right and just discarding
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: guys in the run game. In the pass rush, there's
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: speed to power there. There's obviously bowl with the longer arms.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit of a swim move that he
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: can go to and a swipe. But when he was
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: rushing off the edge, he likes to swipe. So I
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: think he can play a little bit of four three end.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I think you can play a little bit of three technique.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I like the versatility and I love the tools. Now
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: there's some work to be done here in terms of
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: the tech which we can get to. But on the
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: positive end, that that's what I see with him.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a guy that I think you kind of
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: allude to. It can play multiple positions along the defensive line,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: and it is very athletic. Was better as a run
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: stopper at Florida State, but just because of his athleticism,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: probably has some pass rush upside. Yeah, I think the
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: idea is you put him bar more Milton Williams keyon
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: white and that's your front. Right. Those are four guys
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that are athletic. Those are four guys that can move around.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: We know they're not going to blitz a ton. Mike
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Rabel kind of alluded to that. I think it was
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: in his introductory press conference early on. Yeah, you know,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: he was kind of asked his philosophies on the blitz
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: and said, it's more about when you do it than
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: how often you do it. So you got to generate pressure.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Those are guys you can run a ton of games with.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: You can move them around, you're gonna keep offensive lines
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: on their toes. So he's just another piece that fits
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: that mold. They're a little small up front now, which
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I do worry about. I thought they might add another
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: nose tackle. But because Farmers a better run stopper than
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: his size would suggest, which makes me like, like, like
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: this pick a little more than just getting the average
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: toolsy rusher, because they do need guys who can play
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: the run.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So he's six three three oh five with the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: thirty five inch arms. Yeah, so even though he's only
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: three oh five and thirty five inch arms helped create
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: that separation for blocks and create the distance so that
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: they can't get up underneath him and drive him off
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: the ball, which helps him kind of make up for
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: the fact that he's only three oh five, right, So
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: that helps. Now with that being said, you know, on
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: the other side of the coin, because we're when you
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: talk about a player like this and you're speaking so highly, well,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: he went in the fourth round, so there has to
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: be a reason he wasn't a higher pick. I thought
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: some of the things you know that I wrote down
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: in my notes, just you know, he will get washed
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: out by double teams. I don't think this is a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: guy that you really want him to get vertical into
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: the block and really attack the base block, right. You
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: don't want him trying to hold the point of attack
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: and posting.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Up and so the opposite of the defensive tackles that
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: they've had, like they would have never drafted this guy
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: under built. And that doesn't mean he's bad players. Stylistically,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: he's very different than what Patriots fans are used to
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: seeing at the defensive.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so as much as he's got a powerful upper
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: body and good twitch off the ball, and he's got
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: good snap quickness to really get into the line of
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: scrimmage and fire his hands. But if you're asking him
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: to eat blocks, like that's not his game. He's not
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: a block eater. He's more of like a reset the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: line of scrimmage kind of guy and then use his
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: upper body power to shed the block. I would also say,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: you know, just in the pass rush, his pads will
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: get up and then that will sap his power. So
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: like when he goes to bull rush guys, he gets
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: a little high with his pads and then then he
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: doesn't have the bull rushing power that you would probably
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: like to see out of him as like a foundational
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: rush in his pass rush. So there's some technique stuff
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: in general, block anticipation technique stuff that they will need
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: to you know, round out or improve as his career progresses.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: But like I said earlier, I just I love the
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: idea of giving a guy like this to Terrell Williams.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Like I think Terrell Williams will fix a lot of
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: those types of things or work to mitigate them, you know,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: kind of like Bill style, where you just hide them
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: instead of maybe you can't get it out of him.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: So you just kind of hide him. But the one
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: thing I will say, I didn't think that he consistently
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: played to his physical ceiling, Like he has a much
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: higher physical ceiling than what he showed at at Florida
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: State at times. But I think that he can get
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: there with the right type of coaching. So I'm excited
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: about seeing Terrell Williams work with a player like this
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: all right in the fifth round bright In Swinson from
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: lsu A, is it fair to call him a media darling?
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: He's kind of a media darling, Like I feel like
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: the draft media was very high.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Well, I think I'm very because of how much he fell. Yeah, right,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: a guy that was. I don't even think Consts's top
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: one hundred. I think in sins Hiss top seventy five.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had him in the top one hundred for short.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: And to get him at one forty six, I think
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: that was a big part of it. Was just like
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: there's always those players here and there in the draft. Evan,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've experienced it, especially once you get into
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Day three, the picks or something coming so quick, and
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: you're following what your team's doing, and you know you'll
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: see a guy get drafted. He hadn't gotten yet. Yeah,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Like I think CJ. Dupree is a UGFA with somebody
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: like that for me. But I think Swinson a lot
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: of people probably you know, you're doing what you're doing
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: on day three and you're not necessarily tracking each individual pick,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: trying to catch up every you know, five ten minutes
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: and suddenly it's wait, he hadn't gone yet, And I
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: think he was one of those guys.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: So I had him eighty seventh in my top one hundred.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Him and Jordan Birch from Oregon were really close for me.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Like there Birch go, I think he went a little
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: bit earlier, but similar players, you know, similar type.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Jordan Birch went. Well know you have them similar some
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: curiosies for the point of the value. Birch went seventy eight. Yeah,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: so it's not a little bit sooner.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: I'll let I'll let Dane talk about some of the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: reasons why he might have fallen.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Swinston was seventy one on the consensus.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: We asked Dan about Swinson, who was his favorite Day
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: three pick out of the Patriots Hall, and he had
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: some good intel on why he might have fallen. So
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: you guys will hear that at the end of the show.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: But in terms of Swinson's skill set, I describe him
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: as a speed to power rusher, Like that's sort of
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: how I see him. Other people see him as more
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: of a pure speed guy with a great bend. I
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: think he's got a little bit of both his game. Look,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: he had sixty pressures last year at LSU, So sixty
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: pressures in the SEC is not something to it's.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Not light work.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: That's not light work.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: And he didn't have to face the short arm tackle.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, he only did in practice, So sixty.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Se LSU put out a picture of the two of
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: them in practice, like going at each other. Yeah, that's
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: always cool.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Sixty pressures and thirty one stops too in twenty twenty
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: four at LSU. That's really good production. And what I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: like so much about Swinson and players of this mold,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: I think when you look at the players that succeed
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: in the past rushing in the NFL, most of them
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: win with speed and win with bent. It's not a
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: lot and sometimes it happens like like hand up, I
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: kind of not miss, but like was lower than I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: should have been on Jared Verse because Jared versus a
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: straight through you to the quarterback kind of guy, right,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: Like he is a power rusher and a lot of
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: the times you get burned by those guys Tyree Wilson, Right,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: that's the guy in Vegas that they drafted like eight
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: to oh level a couple of years ago. That would
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: just ragged all people. Well, you can do that at
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: the college level, you can't necessarily do that at the
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: NFL level. Well, I like so much about Swinton is
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: that he does have speed off the line, and he
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: has bent so he can win with pure speed on
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: the edge. I think he can also generate or create
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: or convert speed to power. He has a really good
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: first step. He has decent length on the edge about
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: you know, average to above average length. So I think
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: that he's a guy that, even though there's some knocks
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: on him in the run defense in terms of setting
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: the edge and posting up and being thirty out there
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, when you see him,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: you know, off the weak side, being able to get
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: downhill at the line of scrimmage, he can run through
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: blockers and he can make plays in the run game
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: that way. Short term, his best path to getting on
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: the field or making an impact on the team is
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: rushing the passer. There's no doubt about that. He's definitely
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: a situational third down rusher on in his career. But
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: similar to what we do with Uch over the years,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: like can he get good enough against the run to
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: be a three down player? That's gonna be the question
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: with him. I have no doubt in my mind he's
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: going to stick in the league as a pass rusher. Yeah,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: He's going to be a third down situational pass rusher
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: in the NFL. The question is is he going to
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: be able to be more than that? That's I don't know.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fair question. But for where they took
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: him to get a situational pass rusher there and they
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: needed more pass rush depth, So it makes sense to me.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: I think he's another guy too that if the coach
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: is like, this is a coaching staff that's kind of
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: coached up guys with these row trades and got in
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: a high level. So he mentioned he was excited to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: work with the Patriots coaching staff when when we talked
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: to him after the pick. Yeah, so we'll see, but
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: I think there is untap potential there.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's over two hundred and fifty pounds, So he's
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: not tiny. It's not like he's six three, two fifty five.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: So he's a well built guy.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: He's not built like if you think like speed rusher, like,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: he's not built like any of those guys just flying
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: around the edge, right, And.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: He's not built like a guy that couldn't be better
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: against the run right right, Like, he's not a two
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: ordred He's not Jasiah Stewart, where he's six and forty
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: pounds soaking wet. I just thought some of the things
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: that he struggled with in the run game. He's a
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: he's a he's a head ducker into contact. So like
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: when he comes off the ball and he sees the block,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: he's gonna duck his head into contact, and that's to
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: generate power and force right into the block, right. But
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: the problem when you do that is is that you
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: lose sight of the football. So what happened to him
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: is he would duck his head into contact, he would
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: create movement, but then the guy would bounce out of
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: his edge and he wouldn't see it coming, right, He
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have eyes in the backfield, or it would be
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: like a zone read and he wouldn't see the quarterback
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: keep it, so he'd lose the edge that way. Those
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: were the things that you saw with some of the
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: head ducking with him on tape, a couple of the
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: other things just I discipline, you know, misdirection, you know,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: those are the things that I thought were you know,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: kind of had him. Anchor was a little hit or
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: miss in the run game as well. So even though
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: the anchor, I don't know if that's gonna asking brew.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe it does. Maybe he adds more mass in play
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: strength in the NFL NFL strength and conditioning program, as
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Paul Pirella likes to say. But in my mind that
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: if he can just be more eyes in the backfield
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: and head up in eyes in the backfield, and more
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: focused on the ball in the backfield, I actually don't
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: think he necessarily needs to be super strong on the edge,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: especially in a scheme like this. It's going to allow
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: him to get up the field. So I think Swinson's
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: going to be a solid gift for them in the
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: fifth rounding. Most people do all right, it's your time
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: to shine again. The kicker. Yeah, how excited are you
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: that the Patriots drafted the kicker Alex So.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: I like the way they did this. A lot of
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: people are nervous. We're talking Andy Boorgallis from Miami Automatic
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: Andy as they called him. I like that, which is
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: is is fair because he Jeremy Springer when we talked
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: to him last month, said consistency. That was like the
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: big thing he kept talking out when he's asked about kickers, consistency, consistency, consistency.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Borgallis the most consistent kicker in the draft. He doesn't
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: have necessarily the highest highs compared to some other guys,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: but he never like Ben Saals, was my guy for
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: a while, right. Ben Saals did have a pretty bad
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, Like he was not good in twenty
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: twenty three, rebounded in a big way in twenty twenty four.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Borgallis was just steady Eddy, steady Andy, like he his
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: numbers took a jump in twenty twenty four was his
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: best season. But he never really had You don't really
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: look at him having a bad year. He just kind
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: of got progressively better every year. So that's why I
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: think they took him. And I get people might be
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: nervous after what happened with Chad Ryland a couple years ago,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: so where it's a little different. They took Chad Rylands
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: in the fourth round. He was there I think fifth pick,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: fourth or fifth pick.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: They took Andy Borgallis in the sixth round as their
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: eighth pick I believe seventh or eighth, So it's a
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: lot lot less risk for a guy that I think
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: is a better kicker. The other thing is Borgoalis is
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: the first kicker off the board. The Patriots actually kicked
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: off the kicker and Tyler Lup went to the Ravens
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: a few picks later. The reason the Patriots took Ryland
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: as high as they did in that draft was the
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: forty nine ers reached on Jake Moody, who also hasn't
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: been great. They took Jake Moody in the top one hundred,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: so that was more reactionary pick than anything else. The Patriots.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: They this was not like, shoot, we got to get
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: a kicker, and you know, drafting somebody higher because you're afraid. No,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: they took the kicker when they wanted to take the kicker.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: So you know he should beat out John Parker Romo
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: for the job. He's a guy that doesn't have the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: biggest leg, but has a big leg. I think you
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable fifty to fifty one fifty two. I don't
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: know that he's somebody you're going to in the like
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: fifty seven fifty eight range, but you know, I know
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: you feel strongly about this. You and the past have
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: been okay with that because you want them going for
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: it in that range. You don't want some kicking field goals.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: So come on, stretch, do it for me.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: His career on stretch, his career long is fifty six.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: He's been pretty good from fifty when he's tried it,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: but it's mostly low fifties. So it's not like Nick Folk,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: all right, forty and in he's automatic, anything like forty
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: nine plus, you're just not going to try he'll step
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: into that fifty range. But he's consistent, he's experienced, and
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: he also one of his coaches talked about an interview
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: like he has a linebacker mentality. Jeremy Springer talked about
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: it's going to be important that kickers can cover kickoffs
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: now in this new rules, and this is the thing
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: he's willing to do that. Yeah, the one question, obviously,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: can he kick in the colt? And that's not something
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: we can answer during training. Cam right, We're not gonna
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: get answer that till we get an answer, I will say.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: When he was asked about it, I loved his answer
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: because a lot of kickers get asked about that and say, well,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: kicking is kicking, Like I'm not really worried about it,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: he said, I understand it's a question, and I'm looking
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: forward to prove people wrong because it's not the same.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Kicking today when it's seventy degrees in Sonny is not
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: the same as kicking the snowstorm is not the same
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: as kicking when it's driving rain and forty degrees with
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: twenty mile an hour winds. It's not And he's going
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: to have to learn how to do it. It's going
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: to be an adjustment. But and this isn't me saying
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: he can do it again. This is the kind of
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: thing where you don't know till you know. But I
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: do like that he's taking the approach of not saying, well,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: I don't really care about it, like he clearly cares.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: He clearly understands it's different. Said, He's looked up to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Adam and Terry, so he has some understanding of that.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: We'll just have to see if he can do it.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think can they put him in like the
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Rocky ice box maybe, Like I've always thought that that
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: was something that Bill would do eventually, is like, yeah,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: just turn the act and like you do is practice
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: in the in the meeting. Well, the Saints did that
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: with their quarterbacks last year before game in Green Bay.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that they put it. They cleared out
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: they cleared out the big walk in fridge in the cafeteria. Yeah,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: and they had like a walk through in the in
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: the freezer. Yeah, so well you need more room to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: kick the ball. But maybe they're building this new facility.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe they are real like climate control.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Right, and then they get it down to ten degrees,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: get the fans blown and I'm just on a simulator.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: It's it seems like something that Bill would do, and
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: it kind of seems like something very able would do
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: because he's kind of cut from the same cloth that
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: they would figure out a way to get bork Oz,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Like maybe they'd send him to like someplace else, you know,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to to like get experience, like where is it winter
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: all the time? I don't know, Antarctic North Pole?
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Well, so something Springer talked about when I asked him
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: about this, was like for him, it's about how well
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: the guy strikes the ball. And think about this with quarterbacks, right,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: When a lot of people think about arm strength, they
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: think about how far you can throw the ball. And
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: that's one interpretation of arm strength, or that's one function
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: of it. Another is, you know, five yard slant. Your
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: arm strength still matters because are you throwing the ball,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: you know, sixty miles now or fifty miles now? Like
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: how long is it going to take to get there?
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: And so what Springer had said was when he looks
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: at these guys, he kind of looks at how does
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: their foot hit the ball? Yeah, what kind of contact
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: do they make? So a guy who was big leg strength,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: you know, leg strength can be a function of maybe
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: he's not hitting sixty yardfield goals, but when he hits
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: the ball, he makes really solid contact. It has good rotation,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: It is good velocity because that's going to cut through
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: the wind and the rain and the snow.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: So you can kind of scout it without being in
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: the right It's.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Not perfect, but it's something that will help you tell
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: It translates and one of the reporters down in Miami
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: put out a tweet after Borgallis was drafted that basically,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: I want to see if I can find the exact tweet,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: but he basically said, like Borgallis was the second most
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: impressive player at Miami's pro day, obviously behind cam Ward
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: because it sounded like a gunshot, that that was the
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: cannon fire guy, yeah, or cannon fire whatever cannon fired.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: I saw that as well. I like that line.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: I'm okay. So that's something where you look at and
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: we talked about this with with Bryce Barrier. Yeah, when
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: they drafted him was when the ball hits it, and
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: if you go way back to Quinn Nordina, Quinn Nordean
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: wasn't nearly as accurate. Yeah, but this is a guy
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: that the ball comes off as foo's strong, so there's
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: not gonna be as much room for the wind to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: knock it around.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: So that's Brgalis And I don't think you're gonna get
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: any more thorough of a kicker breakdown than that. So
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: you're welcome for that. One seventh round to twenty overall.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: Marcus Bryant, left tackle from Missouri, started his career at SMU,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: was at Missouri last year and they were so confident,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: I guess is the word or so comfortable. I think
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: it's a better word. And Marcus Bryant that they didn't
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: flip Membo, and they had talks at Missouri about potentially
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: flipping Membo, Memb who played left tackle in high school.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: They were thinking that maybe they were going to flip him.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Then they end up getting Brian in the portal from
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: SMU and they're like, all right, well, we have this
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: experience left tackle coming from a decent level of football
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: at SMU and good program, so we feel pretty good
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: and we're gonna not mess around with Membo and we're
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: going to keep him on the right side. So Marcus
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: Bryant ends up playing left tackle for Missouri last year,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: last couple of years, right, I think.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: It was just last last year. I think it was
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: just last year. But he Javon Foster two years ago.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: What I like about the Bryant pick is that this
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: is again a bet on tools, like this is a
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: trade s based prospect. Is a guy that's got good measurables,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: you know, six seven three three twenty uh requisite arm.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: Length beyond requisite thirty five ines.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's all. I think it's thirty four plus.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, and a really good testing. Yeah,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: good tester as Wester. So you put on Would you
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: tell me about his RAS score? It was high, right,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: was it? I can't remember text as too many numbers.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: It was good. I remember it being good like elite,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: like in their elite range.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: Marcus Bryant's taught this was from you. I don't know
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: if you were being facetious or not. Marcus Bryant's top
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: RAS comparisons are Oh I remember this now, Yeah, that
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: was Joe Thomas and Jonathan Ogden and then you throw
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: any Andrew Whitworth.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: It was the three. And I'm dead serious. And this
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: obviously is cut his tongue in cheek, but I'm dead serious.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I pulled up his RAS card. RIS is Relative athletics score.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: It's the best thing going right now to put combine
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: numbers into context. And when I like so much about
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: RIS is. First of all, it's it's weight adjusted. So
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: if you're a three hundred and fifty pounds tackle, it
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: adjusts for the fact that your three hundred fifty pounds
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: and somebody else might be three hundred pounds, right, which matters.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: The other thing that I like about it is. It's
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: not just gauging the forty like it takes into account
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: the jumps, the agilities the forty and to get an
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: all encompassing number, because let's face it, it's not just about
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: how fast you run forty yards, right, Like, that's not
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: the only gauge of athleticism. So Bryan tested really well.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: He measured really well, and his best comps for the
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: names you just named. Now, he's not going to be those.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: Guys like a it was a joke, ribbing fun.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, he's not gonna be those guys. Uh, but he
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna take a flyer on the seventh round
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: and if they were gonna double dip a tackle, I
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: don't know if this is truly a double dip when
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: you pick somebody in the seventh round, but it's two tackles.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: If you're gonna technically, if you're gonna take a second tackle,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: this wasn't this the type of tackle you wanted to take,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Like you took the the Will Campbell pick is the
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: the safe, uh well rounded, great kid, high in tangible,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: high high football character uh SEC. Powerhouse tape, you know,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: great tape against great players all the all the boxes
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: checked with Will Campbell, if you're gonna double dip that tackle.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: We were talking about Charles Grant, Anthony Belton, you know
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: those types of guys pre draft. They waited a little
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: bit longer, but they got a guy with a lot
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: of raw talent that they can hopefully develop maybe into
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: a backup or a swing tackle at some point.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: So that's the big thing for me with Marcus Bryant
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: is is he's athletic. He's got experience on the right
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: and left side. We talked about this, they needed backups
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: and Darian Lowe maybe he can be your backup left tackle,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: but he can't play on the right side. Kayden Wallace
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: can be your backup right tackle, but he can't play
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: on the left side. So if Marcus Bryant can prove
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: he can be a backup caliber player, it saves you
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: having to keep a tackle. I think ideally long term,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: Like my ideal projection for him, this ideal ideal. You know,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: he's a big, powerful guy. He can be proves he
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: can be a starting right tackle in the Patriots system
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: if he's gonna play long term, like that's where he's
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: gonna stick. Because he does have experience on both sides.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: But I think, like, what would be great if he
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: can just be your backup tackle, and maybe they still
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: keep Kyden Wallace because they want to develop a long
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: term right tacklet with a much higher ceiling. They want
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: to develop a long term right tackle behind Morgan Moses,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: but like if they just want to, you know, in
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: terms of basic depth, Marcus Bryant's the only guy on
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: the roster that can play both tackle spots. So if
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: he can prove he can be a backup caliber player,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: it saves you a roster spot because now you don't
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: have to carry and they still might you don't have
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: to carry a backup right tackle and a backup left tackle.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: He's gonna fill both spots.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: It was definitely something I was considering. I put together
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: my roster, you know, re configured the ninety man roster,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: and I like to do it too deep on the
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: depth chart. And when I was doing the too deep
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that, I was thinking about tackle. So
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: right now, Campbell and Moses obviously are your starters left
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: and right. Uh Vederian Lowe is a left tackle. Only
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: we know that, you know, like you said, Cayden Wallace,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: who we I agree I think Caden Wallace is worth
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: keeping around to develop as a long term right tackle option.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe he can't start down the road. Demadri Jacobs has
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: played a little bit of both. But I say this
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: with all due respect, I don't know if Demantre Jacobs
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: an NFL.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Player right, well, you just have more upside with Brian.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: You know, he's kind of a practice squad guy to me,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: and then you have Bryant, right, So really, when you
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: think about it, they're going to keep Campbell, They're gonna
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: keep Moses. Yeah, we think they're probably gonna keep Wallace,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: the third round pick in his second year, didn't really
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: play as a rookie. He probably is gonna stay.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: Well. Wallace could also move inside of guard too, like
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: they had kind of talked about that a little bit
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: last year, maybe being something that never happened because they
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: just need to tackle so bad and he got hurt.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: So you don't have to keep four, right, If they
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: do keep four, would it make more sense. Let's let's
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: say Will Campbell comes out of the gate and training
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: campus is an absolute stud and you're you never think
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: twice about it about setting and forgetting him.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: It would be nice.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, then do they really need to keep ve Darian Lowe,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: who is kind of is who he is and is
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: only a one position backup right over a guy like
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: Marcus Bryant who has some upside, has some tools and
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: might be a multi position.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: Back as long as Bryant can can prove he can
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: be that player.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, And go back to his RIS scores eight
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: point nine to six out of ten, which is an
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: the elite range for Bryan. Great explosiveness, vertical jump of
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: thirty one and a half at six seven and three
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: twenty which is a good number, and a four nine
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: seven forty yard dashub five forty yard it's insane at
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: six seven, So that's moving. That's moving. So when you
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: look at Campbell, when you look at Brian, and you
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: look at Jared Wilson, they got some athletes on the
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: offensive line, like those guys are not just you know,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: it's not just the film with those guys, Like those
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: guys have great measurables in athletics traits as well. All right,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: moving on back to you and Julian Ashby the long snapper.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: I'm glad this kind of happened before the show. Joe
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Cardona released yesterday. Yeah, we should mention that ten year patriot,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: two times super Bowl champ, the last two or three.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Three times super got here in fifteen, right, so two.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two time super Bowl champ, longest tenured Patriot, the
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: last Patriot on the roster to have won a Super
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: Bowl in New England.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Last one to beat teammates with Tom Brady in New England.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Last one to be the teammates with Tom Brady in
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: New England.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: But they do have somebody who won a Super Bowl
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: with Tom Brady on the roster in Tampa. In Tampa,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: Carlton Davis.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: Should mention Ron Burton Award winner for Community service. Just
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: a really I know he's a long snapper. I know
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: it's not the most valuable position or anything like that,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: but just a really well rounded guy, like a really
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: well rounded patriot. Obviously a patriot as well, you know,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: with military stuff, but in general, great in the community,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: great on the team, team captain last year. Just a
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: good dude. I wish Cardona the best. I hope that
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: he sticked someplace else. But the reason why they cut
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: Joe Cardona was because they drafted a long snapper. If
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: you're going to draft and use a draft pick on
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: a long snapper, he's going to be the long snapper
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: most likely. So what can you tell me about Julian Ashby?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: So he's really athletic, he had an elite another elite
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: RAS guy. He had a faster ten yard split in
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: the forty than I know.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: That's the fun one.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: We were talking about this a little bit yesterday. Yeah,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: because he is a little undersized, which people but this
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: is the way teams are using the long snapper now.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: And Joe Cardona talked about this last year. If you
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: remember when he goes down he forces the fumble in
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: the opener against Cincinnati, he was talking about and said, yeah,
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: like I'm actually going down the field now because under
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: Bill that's not how they used the long snapper. The
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: long snapper stayed back and blocked, and it was one
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: of the last guys down the field. Didn't really make tackles,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: didn't make plays on the football. It was more of
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: a protector. But there's this other philosophy where because the
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: long snapper, you can't line up directly over him, and
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: he's the one snapping the ball and getting the play started,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: he kind of has a head start getting down the field,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: so with some teams do now instead of finding more
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: blocking prototype long snappers, they find these quicker guys who
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: can go down the field and be the first down
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: there and make a play. And if you watch Julian Ashby,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: he does a lot of that. Brian Hins from Pats
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Polpit has some clips of this, including two against Alabama.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: So this is more the kind of player that I
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: think Jeremy Springer wants is the guy who's going to
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: be an athlete snapped the ball. He's beating the gunners
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: down the field. At Vanderbilt, he's beating the gunners usually
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: like the fastest guy on the team. He's beating those
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: down the field to make plays on the ball. He's
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: a solid tackler. So I think it's it's a stylistic change.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: They want a guy that can go and be a
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: factor in coverage and not just the guy who's gonna
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: snap and protect. And that's what Ashby's gonna do.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: So when you talk about being the first down the field,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: the fastest way is a straight line, right, So the
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: guys on the outside obviously have to come in and
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: they also have to be blocks on the outside. So
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: the long snapper is uncovered and he's right up the gut.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: So if you kick the ball right into the middle
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: of the field, which usually you don't want to do,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: But if you kick it right up the middle, then
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: the long snapper and stands the reason would be the
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: first one down there.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: So the thing about that, and different people will tell
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: you different things on this, but yes, usually don't want
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: to kick it down the middle of the field if
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: you're trying to pin a team, right, if you're punting
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: from around the fifty, you're trying to pin a team.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: The sideline can be a friend or a foe. It
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: gives you another place where the ball can go out.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: But it also is like if you kick it too short,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: you might not get the bounce because it's going to
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: roll out. So get us some more opportunities to down balls,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: maybe in the middle of the field instead of cough
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: and cornering, which is unfortunately becoming a lost art in
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: the NFL.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: So this guy's a pretty good athlete for a long stow,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: really good athlete. Yeah, he's eight point five to three
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: RAS score out of ten uh four nine?
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: What's his so the RAS breaks some things down. What's
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: his size grade within that?
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: So he's uh, he's small. He's okay, size six one
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: two thirty one, and the two thirty one is below thresh.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: So he's a elite I think in all the other categories, right.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: Great, great, an elite lead speed great.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: So he's probably closer to a nine RS when you
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: don't factor in his size.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: So the big number is the one point five to
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: six ten yard split, Yeah, which is moving like that's
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: moving out of the he gets out of the the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: blocks and goes Yeah, that's a really good number. That
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: would be a good number for like receivers, right, yeah,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: So that's a really good number. One point five six,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: that's a individually, that's a perfect ten out of ten score.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe he'll actually have a decent rating in Maden since
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: they don't recognize long snappers and make them tight ends.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: They still don't do that.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: They still don't do that. That's crazy, I know, and
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: doing the college game either. So I finally got to
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: do I've been waiting ten years tweet out all the
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: overall ratings for all the Patriots draft picks, poor Julian
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: ash Everybody I think was eighty five or higher except
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: poor Julian Ashby. I have to do a fifty six
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: with an asterisk because it's still tight ends. They don't
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: recognize them as long.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: A sam Well. Is that just because they don't want
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: to put in the work to actually evaluate the long snappers.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: Probably, but like you could we just broke it down,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: like there's things you could put in to make it
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: a thing that's true.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: They three ninety overall guys from NCA.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: By the way, it was a good draft.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: Last one mister irrelevant himself, Kobe Minor, Yeah, from Memphis.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: Kind of cool, mister irrelevant thing. Yeah, fun, Kobe Minor
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: from Memphis. I think the the thing that stands out
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: to me about this pick, oh, you know, besides him
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: being mister irrelevant, which is notable, right, is uh, we've
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: talked a little bit about slock Corn and maybe you know,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: what's Marcus Jones's role in this defense is what's his fit?
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: What's his future with the Patriots? They could probably use
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit of depth in the slot. I mentioned
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: earlier that I was trying to put together my depth
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: chart the other day on Monday, and I didn't really
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: feel great about who to put behind Marcus Jones in
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: the slot. It's probably Isaiah Bolden is the guy I
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: feel the best about is like a bigger slot corner.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: He's practiced a little bit some in the slot with
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: the Patriots the last couple of years. Kobe Minor doesn't
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: have great top end speed, but he's got coverage ability.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: He's got zone coverage ability. He can handle those responsibilities,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: and I think that a lot of people project him
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: to play be better off inside because of the lack
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: of long speed. So I do wonder if they're going
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: to have him come in and compete as a slot corner.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that certainly seems like yet also a guy that's
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: a good athlete. I think in somebody that they probably
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: have ear marked for a special team's role primarily, but yeah,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: they need did slot corner depth. He's going to compete.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Jordan Paul, a guy, undrafted guy from Texas State, has
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: been listed a lot of places of safety, yeah, but
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: primarily played slot corner for the Bobcats last year. There's
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: gonna be an interesting competition there.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: You see a lot of you know, scrappy physical I'm
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: not afraid to stick his hat in in the run game,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: and when you hear those types of things, you know
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: nowadays Nicole leven personnel. You know, new strong sidelinebacker. Like
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: you think about the slot and guys like that playing
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: a spot a slot, especially if they don't have the
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: top end speed to hang as outside corners. You can
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: move him back inside and maybe get something out of
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: him a flyer. You know, we'll see what happens with him. Obviously,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: last pick in the draft. You're not expecting a ton
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: So that's the draft class. That was good. Look at
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: that Look at that pace.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: That was one of our best ever. Like normally this
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: show takes we saw the UDF phase, but that was
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: a good pace. I'm proud of us. I really am
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: so about those u DFAs. Yeah, so the Patriots have
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: signed an unbelievable quite a few ud fas. Uh, what
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: are we up to now? Like like almost seventeen seventeen,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, right, we're getting to a high
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: number here. So I have a couple that I'm higher on.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: I know you have a couple as well. I think
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: the ones that are the most notable, uh to me
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: are Efton Chishom's got to be on the list. Land
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: Larrison's got to be on the list. I think those
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: two guys are on everybody's list. Jack Connonlly from Boston
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: College I find interesting. And then of course the full
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: back Brock Lamb also c J Deprie. Oh, I can't
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: I'm probably the highest on CV and I just forgot
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: ce Ja Prie. So I would say those five are
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: probably the guys that I look at. Oh and uh
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: Elijah Ponder.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so six, we'll throw the one in on defense.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: It's mostly an offensive class.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: So those six guys I look at and say probably
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: have the best chance to push for roster spots. Who
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: is your favorite? You know, we have a couple of minutes,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: so you can, we can go on all six, But
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: who is your favorite?
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: My personal favorite is probably Larison. I think the guy
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: like this feels like a lazy take. Evan, I don't know.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: You tell me. Brock Lampi's the most likely to make
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: the team because he's on the top of the depth chart,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: so like he's gonna make it because they need a
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: full back and he's a fullback. Beyond him, Larison's super
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: fun reminds me a ton of Brandon Bolden. I think
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: he's a physical ballcarrier. He can run between the tackles,
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: he can catch the football. I think he's gonna be
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: a stud on special teams. I think he ends up
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: making the team. There could be like three or four
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: of these guys who make the team. CJ. Dupree. We
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: talked about this guy a lot during the pre draft process.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: Turned out they got him as a UDFA primarily blocking
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: tight end, but has some receiving upside you can tap into.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: Really was like the late Day three Mitchell Evans who
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: we liked but then obviously end up going undrafted. I
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: think to a lot of people's surprise. So I think
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: he has a good chance. Chisholm, I mean just cut
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: and dry, Josh McDaniel, slicker receiver. I don't know how
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: much more we need to say there and then I
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: also like Connolly can play four spots. We'll give you
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: some depth. We talked about the importance there. Wilfrid Pinay
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: will be an interesting one. I also like, I kind
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: of just mentioned him. Is Jordan Polk from Texas State.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: A ton of slot experience, some of it's at the
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: FCS level, but has a ton of slot experience. Plays physically.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: I think he forces three or four fumbles last year.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: So they need a backup slot corner, and I think
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: he's gonna be right there in the mix of the competition.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: Can play some safety as well, and should be a
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: good player on special teams. So there's a little g
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: Scott too, Like if they want a more of receiving
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: tight end, I think he's certainly got'd like to keep
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: on the practice squad and developed for a year. There's
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys that you look at. So I'll
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: have my list out tomorrow on ninety eight five the
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: Sports of dot Com. Of like udfa's with the most
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: realistic path to the roster. I had ten guys that
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: I can see like having a realistic path to making
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: the team. It doesn't mean they all will. They won't.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna have ten udfas, But like, there's ten
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: guys that I would not be surprised if they made
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: the team.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: So I'll go in order of guys that basically I
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: thought were drafted to not you know, guys that are
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: lower on my list. But suj Dupre, I'm shocked he
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: didn't get drafted. And yeah, this happens deep tight end class.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: Someone's gonna fall through the CACS crack. Someone's not going
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: to get drafted. That's just the way it works in
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: deep classes. Duprie was one of those guys. For my money,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: I thought dupri was one of the best inline blockers
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: on day three in the class. Put him right up
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: there with you know, Jackson Hawes and Latchie from Iowa
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: and like those guys. I thought he blocked really really well.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: I know there's some questions about finish and sort of
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: power to sustain and things like that. I didn't see
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: that in a couple of games of his that I watched,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: I thought that he finished really well. I put a
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: clip up on Twitter of him just kind of throwing
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: a guy out of the club, you know, on the sideline.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: I put another one up of him comboing up on
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: an inline block of and him just burying the dude
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: into the ground and flexing on him, Like this is
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: the guy that can really block. If you're gonna make
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: the team as a third tight end, blocking and special
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: teams is your path, right, Like, that's the way to
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: do it. And I think du pre can do both
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: of those things. You know, play on the wing on
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: special teams, on the protection units and things like that,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and then also block in line on as a third
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: tight end. He has a little bit of juice, like
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: he's a four to six ish guy. In the forty
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: yard dash, it wasn't a terrible time, above average speed
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: at straight line speed. He was an afterthought in Alabama's
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: passing game, as you would expect with all the six nine,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: all the talent they have at that school. But he
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: you know, they would dump them off, you know, tight
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: end screens, little you know, slipouts into the flats, things
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: like that, and let him run with the ball. And
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: he was pretty good with the ball in his hands.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: And he's got a little bit of straight line speed
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: to get down the field. So you split was, yeah,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: they'll have races. I thought that Dupre was going to
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: get drafted because of his blocking.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, And he's.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: A really good blocker. Efton Chisholm. I just it makes
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: me feel whole again that we're doing eft and Chisholm,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: because this is the Riley McCarron's of Austin cars. This
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: is the Brax and Barrioses of Gunner O Chefsky's. Yeah,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: this is uh, give me another one.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're out of him unless you want to
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: go to Julian Edelman.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: No, I don't want to go to Julian Edelman, but.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: Austin Carr, Braxton Barrios, Riley McCarran, Gunner, Gunner, Well, I
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: don't think Gunner was more like Gunner was a converted corner.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Gunner was a little different. But there's more back
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: in the day. Like I was mentioning Riley McCarron and
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: Austin Carr and Paul yesterday on PU laughed and said,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: I was thinking of different guys because there's so many guys.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: But anyways, uh, not true slot, not like the Truton
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: Chisholm is your classic quick, not fast Patriots slot receiver.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: He ran a four to seven. He has got no juice, right, like,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: no straight line juice down the field, and it's not
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: a lot after the catch. I will give him this
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: after the catch though. He is really good at making
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: the first guy miss in a phone booth. Then he
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: gets caught from behind every single time. But like he'll
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: give you those extra like two or three yards by
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: just eluding that first hill.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: Also like, and I mean this is at the FCS level,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: but he'll drag guys like he doesn't just go down. Yeah,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: he's he wants the contacts there because he gets caught,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: but like he'll he'll make him work to bring him down.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: Really where he shines those his route running and he's
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: a jitterbug like he's got he's an absolute jitterbug quickness.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: He's got that ability to separate at the top of
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: the routes. If he's gonna there's gonna be a preseason game.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: I can tell you right now where they're gonna run
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: hass and he's gonna be number three and he's gonna
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: run the juke and he's gonna win over the middle
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: on a linebacker and we're all gonna just be like
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: there he is there, it is right, Like it's gonna
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: be like pop the corks right like that. That's chisholm uh.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: He's he was fun. I liked watching watching him at
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: Eastern Washington. I posted this on Twitter, like red on
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: red red jerseys on a red field, Like come on
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: Eastern Washington, Like, no, that's the red field, okay, but
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: you can't wear red jerseys on a redkin.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the thing with Boise State where
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: the guy lies down on the on the kick that
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: should be it's a whole field advantage.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: If this organization did that, I.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: Don't want to see colored fields in the NFL.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: This organization did that back in the day, there would
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: be a Supreme Court hearing.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: Of the pack the Jets can do it. There's not
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: smart enough to actually, I think a guy in the
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: NFL did do that. Lie down in an enzign.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: I know he did. He did, Yeah, he did. So
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: that's Efton Chishlm. Classic Josh McDaniel slot receiver, the red field.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: It's so classic Josh McDaniel slot that you just know
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: that McDaniels was somewhere in this building when they do
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: UDF a is or flying and he was like, can
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: you just give me Chisholm Like.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: And you just just you said he started asking for
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: that for the UDFA. He's probably one f seven. They
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: probably to rip the phone away.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was probably like, I'm telling you, this Eastern
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: Washington kid is exactly what I need. Just give me
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: this kid.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: When does he release the first workout video with Edelman?
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: You know Edelman is going to start going and working
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: out with him.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: I'm excited about him. I'm not gonna lie. He's going
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: to be a training camp guy we all know that,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: Land Larison. I can see it with him a little
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: bit too. Again, another guy that just fits that mold
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: for the Patriots. Really good quickness, like he can really
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: elude and jump out of cuts. I wouldn't say he's
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: the fastest either in a straight line, like he's not
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: going to run through defenses or take out pursued angles
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: like Trevon Henderson, but he's going to be able to
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: jump cut out of tackles. He's gonna be able to
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: catch the ball a little bit out of the battlefield,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: you said, Brandon Bolden. He told me I was lazy
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: by comping him to Rex Burkhead. I'm gonna do it anyways, right,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: He gets bigger than I forgot. I looked at that.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: I said, Larius is like a big guy.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't realize that. Yesterday on PU I I
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: screwed up and I called him Danny Woodhead. He's much
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: bigger than Danny wood He's like six foot two fifteen. Yeah,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: Rex Burkhead, Rex Perkin. Yeah, there's a there's comps of
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: there's a comps. There's clips of him like running angle
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: routes and stuff like that. Out of the backfield and
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: paying some separation on linebackers. He's he's Rex burt Head.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: You mentioned Conley, Jack Conley from Boston College. You knew
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: they were going to get one BC guy in here.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: Jack Conley's the guy. What I like about Jack Conley
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: And I talked to to the guys at New England
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: Football Journal, you know, Kevin and yeah, Den, I was
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: trying to I wasn't gonna be able to pronounce his
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: last name, sorry. John. John's a big offensive line guy,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: coaches offensive line, so he knows what he's talking about.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: And we were at PC's pro day and he was like,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: I think Conley, you know, is a is an interesting
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: like seventh round UDF A flyer. He is on it.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: And the big reason why John told me that is
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: because of his versatility. Like if you if you're going
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: to back up in the NFL, you better be able
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: to back up multiple spots, right, Like you have to
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: be a four position backup like Conley. Conley played every
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: position at Boston College beside center. Yeah, he played in
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: a college game at He also played a little bit
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: of muscle tight end, like jumbo tight end, you know,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: tackle eligible type of stuff. As the sixth offensive lineman.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: So this is a guy that projects as a backup,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: that can back up multiple positions. I think he's got
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: good power, good play strength to him. You know, he's
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: got a rock solid kind of anchor and thud into
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: contact and all that kind of stuff. He's got to
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: work on. He's a wastebender and he like leans over
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: his skis and gets off balance. I have to work
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: on that, but I think he can be a backup
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: in the league. So to prea chisholm uh Lampy With Lampy,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: it's more of a of an offense stylistic thing, right,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: Like that's all it is. If they're gonna go with
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: the full back, you know, that's the type of thing
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: that they're going to Uh, they're gonna want, you know,
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: in Lampy. You know I turned on his tape against
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: Notre Dame last year at Northern Iowa and they ran
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: lead iso right full back right through the the A
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: gap or the B gap up on the linebacker you know,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: thwack right behind him, right. You know that play. Everybody
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: knows it. If you play pee wee football, it's like
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: a day one install from like the fifth grade on
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: right is lead ISO. Then right after a couple of
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: plays later they play actioned off of it and I
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: was like, I was pants off. I was like, hell yeah,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: full back's back, baby. He did do a little bit
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: of things on the wing like you do, some wing
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: blocking and some inline blocking as well. So there's some
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: of that versatility or like H back versatility to him
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: as well. But if they want that traditional full back,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: that's just him. The one thing I would say about
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: him as a receiver, I thought his ball skills were decent.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: Like he made a low catch against Notre Dame where
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: he got yeah, where he went to the ground and
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: made a catch. I thought that he Know he's not
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: a dynamic receiver. It's not Kyle used check right, You're
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: not going to get that level out of him. But
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: I do think he can catch the ball. You know,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: if he elits into the flat and he's you know,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: the fifth read on the backside, and there's just nobody
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: covering him over here, like they'll he'll be able to
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: be serviceable. He'll catch the ball, he'll get upfield, he'll
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: get the yards he can get.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: He's not a true h back, but he is somebody
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: who can trust with ball in his hands in the
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: right situation. So I think it's that perfect mold between
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: what McDaniels wants, which is a guy that can just
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: get into the A gap and meet a linebacker, but
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: not somebody like he's all somebody the defense is going
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: to have to account for.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: Last one I wanted to bring up was Elijah Ponder
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: from cal Poly. I thought that Elijah Ponder had draftable talent,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: draftable trade, certainly a really good tester. Again, hammer in
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: the testing here, nine point seven rass Orris really elite
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: in all categories, you know, elite speed, elite explosiveness, elite agility.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: This is a guy that ran a six point nine
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: to nine second three cone at six two two fifty.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: That's really good. Yeah, sub seven three cone at that
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: size is really impressive. Defensive end prospect handing the dirt
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: four to three end, good power, good explosiveness off the line,
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: can really gain ground early in his pass rush. I
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: think that there obviously is going to be some level
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: of competition, question marks and jumping competition and technique stuff,
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: But a guy that can really rush the passer and
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: really has some speed to power and some athleticism to
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: his game so I think he's got a chance just
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: on raw tools to potentially make the roster. So if
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: I had to guess, besides Lampy, like you said, that's
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: its own thing. Besides Lampy, if I had to guess,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: I would say Dupree's probably got the best chance to
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: make the team as a third tight end.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but Larison and Chisholm are right there too. I
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: think that's the big that's the and Conley that's like
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: the group you're looking at, and then some other guys
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: more just for depth.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: If I had to put a guess on it, I
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: would say Dupre third tight end, blocking tight end behind
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper. You can he beat out
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: Jahem Bell as more of a tradition inline blocker, whereas
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: Jackeen Bell is kind of this you know flex h
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: back moved right.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: But I guess it becomes tough. Are you gonna So
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: it comes down to me like, if they're going to
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: carry a move tight end and h back, you probably
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: aren't going to keep Lampy. Yeah, So it's Dupre or
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Lampy depending on if Bell fills the full back rolling right.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of a trickle down effect of like
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: Belle Lampy dupre those three guys. Do they want the
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: traditional full back? Do they want an extra inline blocker? Yeah?
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: Those would be the conversations that we're gonna have all
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: summer long, all summer long about this team in this
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: fifty three man roster. Really exciting group all around. And
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: we have one more special treat for you, so don't
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: sign off just yet. Dame Broker from the Athletic is
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: up next. He's gonna break down. What's that? Oh? I
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: need to do the read. I need to do the
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: read first before we throw it to day. Support the
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: home team. Join New England's events staff here at led Stadium.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: Season open visions available in food, beverage, parking and security.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: Visit www dot thecraftgroup dot com, slash careers and apply today.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: All right, guys, here's Dan Brugler. We are joined now
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: by Dame Bruger of the Athletic, the Beast himself. Dane,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining us, and you're we got
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of fans of you here right now because
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: you ranked the Patriots as the number one draft class
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: in the NFL, so we had to have you y'all
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: to talk about that, but thanks so much for doing this.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: No, Hey, pleasures online.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: It was a fun draft season, fun three days. And yeah,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 5: I'm really lated what the Patriots did. So excited to
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 5: talk about that class with you.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's start with that right off the top. So
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: you published a ranking of all thirty two teams draft
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: classes and you had those New England Patriots up there
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: at number one. Why did you think the Patriots had
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: the best draft in the NFL.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 5: First of all, they just drafted a lot of the
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 5: players that I had ranked in my top one hundred.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 5: I think six we're in my top one hundred. And
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 5: I think they just matched up really well with the
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 5: needs and what's going to make this team better, you know,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 5: And like what I do, because I don't do draft grades,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 5: I just do it one through thirty two.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 3: Here are my favorite draft classes.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 5: And really it just comes down to who do I
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 5: think made the biggest jump based off of what they.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 3: Did on draft weekend?
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 5: And I think you look at the Patriots. You get
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 5: your love tackle with Will Campbell, you come back, you
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 5: get a couple of playmakers in on Day two with
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 5: Travon Henderson Kyle Williams, and then to get Jared Well
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 5: trade back and then get Jared Wilson. I just tremendous
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 5: value in my opinion. Wilson, He's going to be a
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 5: starter in this league for a long time. I compared
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 5: to him a Rodney Hudson, you know, a guy that
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 5: maybe won't make a Pro Bowl, but he's going to
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 5: be a solid starter for a lot of years. And
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 5: that's he's going to bring competition from day one. And
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 5: so that's what if you're the Patriots, that's exactly what
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 5: you want. You want to an offensive line that is
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 5: really get the five best out there based off of competition.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 5: And so I think they did a really nice job
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 5: first two three rounds and then into Day three just
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 5: adding really good football players and at positions where they're
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 5: going to directly impact this team in twenty twenty five.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: And Dan kind of along those lines. And I don't
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: know if you factor this into your grade, just how
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: teams maneuver the board and work the board. But five trades.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: That was a big part of the talking point coming
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: out of the draft. It was I believe Elliott Wolf
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: after the draft talked about they wanted to make sure
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: they were picking in spots where the players lined up
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: for them. Did you factor that into your evaluation, if not,
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: just your thoughts on how they were able to manipulate
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: the board to get the class that they wanted to get.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's that's certainly part of it.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 5: Like I said, to trade back and get Wilson the
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 5: way they did was awesome. It's it's always tough because
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 5: if you like a player.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: Enough, just take them.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, if they are teams calling
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 5: about possibly moving up, then you know, it's it's a
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 5: conversation about, hey, well we can pick up an extra
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 5: fourth or an extra fifth and move back ten twelve
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 5: spots and we still feel like we'll get the same guy.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 5: Now there's risk involved obviously that the player will still
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 5: be there.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 3: But I think the Patriots and what.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 5: They did over the weekend was a good example of
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 5: it working out to their advantage and letting the board
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 5: fall to them, not forcing things, not being you know,
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 5: like was it member last year in the second round
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 5: when you know they traded back, you know, wait from
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 5: lad McConkey, and they know all the you know, noise
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 5: about that decision. Well, that didn't carry over to this
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 5: year where they were scared to move back if they
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 5: felt like that was the right move. And you know
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 5: that that's something to be said about just not manipulating
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 5: the board, but not drafting scared. You know, you are
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 5: going to trust your grades, trust all the work that
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 5: your scouts did, and you know the rest of your
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 5: front office, your coaches, and build the team with players
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 5: that you had high on your board. And they were
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 5: able to do that, and I think they were the
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 5: value because the draft's all about value. The value they
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 5: got at every level the draft was really impressive.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: So, Daniel, you listed out your favorite pick of the
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: draft for each team and then your favorite kind of
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: Day three sleeper pick, and your favorite pick of the
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: draft for the Pats was Kyle Williams, who I think
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: we're all pretty excited about here. Not the type of
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: receiver that they've had here in a while, you know,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: speed separation ability. But what was it about Kyle Williams
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: that you thought he was the best pick of the
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: draft for them?
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and just summed it up, speed separation. Just going
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 5: back to the Senior Bowl and watching Kyle in person,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 5: the releases off the line, his ability to separate early,
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 5: mid and late was.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 3: Just really impressive.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 5: And I go back to North Carolina when Drake May
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 5: not the twenty twenty three season, but the twenty twenty
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 5: two season, his top target was Josh Downs, and Downs
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 5: was kind of a similar guy where he just got
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 5: open consistently, a little bit of a smaller target, just
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 5: like Kyle Williams, but Downs was able to get open
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 5: and May trusted that implicitly, and that was a big
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 5: part of that North Carolina offense he was missing that
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 5: last year. And that's what I think Kyle Williams can
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 5: be for Drake May, helping him take that next step
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 5: in his development, be a high volume pass catcher, receive
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 5: a lot of targets, even as early as his rookie season.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 5: So you know, Kyle Williams was an interesting player throughout
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 5: the process because he blew He had a great senior year,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 5: blew up the Senior Bowl, and then had a really
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 5: good forty time four to four to zero at the combine,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 5: but then he got hurt the hamstring, so cut the
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: combine short, couldn't work out of the Pro Day. But
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 5: you know, he was a really popular guy with thirty
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 5: visits and workouts as teams tried to figure him out,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 5: and so for the Patriots to get him in the
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: third really liked the value there.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: Just along those lines, why do you think, you know,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: you're so dug in this from the beginning, and a
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: lot of people they start looking maybe around the Senior
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: Bowl and I remember looking at and the consensusport is
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: what it is. It's a tool, it's not everything. But
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: he was like eight hundredth on the consensus sport going
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: into the Senior Bowl, and even coming out of that,
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: you know, was not getting that same kind of attention.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: It wasn't until two three weeks ago that people really
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: start talking about this guy. Is it just you know,
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: Pack two conference playing out on the West coast late
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: games or why do you think this guy didn't have
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: as much external buzz during the process as he clearly
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: did with teams going as high as he went.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 5: I think that's a big part of it, just people
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 5: not paying attention to Washington State football because of you know,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 5: just the conference realignment in Washington State Oregon State kind
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 5: of being left out in the cold. But yeah, I
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 5: mean Williams he started at UNLV three years there, transferred
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 5: to Washington State, had an okay year in twenty twenty three,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 5: but wasn't really looked at as a draftable player. So
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 5: going back to the summer watching him, it was like, Okay,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 5: solid player, but looks like a camp body. You know,
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 5: it looks like he has some speed, but you know,
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 5: production is just okay. And then this year as a senior,
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 5: it's like, really things started to click for him, and
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 5: so it was a little bit of a see. I mean,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 5: I liked him going into the Senior Bowl, but the
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 5: Senior Bowl is really where it was like, Okay, this
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 5: guy's a little bit different. Jalen Nole to me, was
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 5: the best receiver I saw on mobile. Kyle Williams was
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 5: a close second. Those two. Both of them were really
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 5: dynamic the entire week and then you know, just kind
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 5: of getting better and better throughout the process. But it
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 5: was kind of out of sight, out of mind, not
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 5: seeing him during the season for most fans. And then,
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 5: like I said, he got hurt at the combine, so
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 5: we didn't see him go through a lot of those drills,
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 5: position drills, testing drills, and then he didn't have a
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 5: Pro Day, so you know, he was kind of a
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 5: little bit out of sight, out of mind, but yeah,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 5: he was a team and then for teams too.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 3: Like it was.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 5: It was not like love at first sight. It was
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 5: something that you know, kind of grew on teams as
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 5: the process played out.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: So your your favorite to move down the board here
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Your favorite Day three pick was Brandon
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: Swinson from LSU, and I think all of us were
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: collectively pretty surprised that he made it all the way
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: to the fifth round. So to part question here, why
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: did you like Swinson? And why do you think he
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: fell a little bit in the draft?
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 5: And really, I mean there were a couple Joshua Farmer
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 5: in the fourth I thought was you know, terrific value.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 5: I think Craig Woodson will hear from as a rookie.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 5: So a couple of Day three picks should play a
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 5: factor in the twenty twenty five season for the Patriots.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 5: You know, Swinston was tough because you know, he had
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 5: he had plenty of love. I think in the media side,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 5: teams weren't quite as high on Swinson compared to some
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 5: of the media, and I'm part of it. You know,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 5: he was a good player at LSU, but you know,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 5: was he going to be a full time player in
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 5: the NFL? Is he more of a sub package guy,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 5: you know, six three and a half two hundred and
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 5: fifty five pounds. What hurt him a little bit was
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 5: choosing not to work out at the Pro Day. He'd
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 5: even weigh in, and so I've heard from several teams
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 5: that were just like not happy just that because he
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 5: didn't he did I think the short shuttle in the
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 5: three cone at the combine. Then it goes to the
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 5: Pro day and ops to just do nothing, and that
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 5: rubbed some scouts the wrong way. Now, is that the
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 5: reason he fell? I you know, I don't, I don't,
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I think he was viewed as more
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 5: of a fourth round guy for teams, so you know,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 5: to get him in the fifth, you know, I thought
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 5: it was trific value there. But it's just I go
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 5: back to what this team needed and you look at
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 5: just adding some more pass rush jees. So even if
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 5: you know Swinston's not a full time player, He's going
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 5: to come in and be part of the rotation and
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 5: give you some of that quickness off the edge. He's
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 5: not just a super physical player in the run game,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 5: but he gives effort, so you know, he he is
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 5: a player that you know has to mature both, you know,
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 5: on the field. Off the field, he his past year,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 5: he butted heads with coaches a few times. You know,
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 5: he was suspended for the first quarter of the Florida
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 5: game for you know, just not eating the with the
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 5: team expected of him. So there's growing up to do
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 5: with this player. But talent is there for him to
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 5: come in and make an impact getting after the quarterback.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: Late in the draft, the Patriots make the two special
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: teams editions kicker Andres Borgalis and then Ashby the long snapper.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: Anytime the Patriots take a special teamer, especially after the
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: way went Chad Rownd a couple of years ago, it's like, well,
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: did they need to invest draft capital here? What are
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on those two guys in Are they players
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: that you think if the Patriots wanted they had to
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: take them where they did?
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 5: You know, I think when you were talking, especially with
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 5: Ashby in the seventh round, it's okay, do we really
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 5: want to get into a bidding war to make sure
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 5: we get him a free agency or you know, a
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 5: team like the Patriots that had so many picks, we
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 5: can just use a seventh rounder on him.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 3: And you know, Ashby is one.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 5: Of what five guys long snappers that you know were
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 5: part of that combine that they had with the specialists.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 5: A little undersize and thirty one pounds, but I think
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 5: that you know, you're thinking about adding weight and you
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 5: look at the athlete and just the consistency that he
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 5: brought that those were kind of the athleticism, consistency, those
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 5: are two words that came up when you know, just
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 5: talking about Ashby. And then you know with the kicker,
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 5: you know, bory Gollis was my rate, my top ranked
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 5: kicker this year. Thought he could go anywhere between the
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 5: fifth and seventh rounds.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 3: So where the Patriots got him?
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 5: You know, it's always you know, some some teams look
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 5: at it and say, we'll never draft a kicker. Other
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 5: teams look at it and say, you know, if we
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 5: like the player.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: Enough, we'll go that route.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 5: And I think with bor Gollis, he did enough during
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 5: his college career, he did enough during the pro day
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 5: during the workouts that said, hey, I'm a starter at
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 5: the next level. And so you know, I I'm not
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 5: going to push back and say like they made the
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 5: wrong move or anything. Time will play out, but I
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 5: certainly understand why they went that direction, all.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: Right, Dan, last one for you. The Patriots have got
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: a pretty good history of undrafted rookies making the roster
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: making an impact. What are some of the guys that
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: stood out to you out of their class there?
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: CJ. Duprieze one guy that I had actually watched before
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: the draft and thought maybe he'd get drafted at tight end.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: But is there anyone out of that group that you like?
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, Chisholm was my top ranked non combine
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 5: receiver this year.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 3: Him running in.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 5: The four sevens at the Pro Day really kind of
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 5: probably eliminated any chances of getting drafted. But he's not
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 5: a long speed guy. He is a short area quickness
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 5: type of player. He I mean, the production he put
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 5: up at Eastern Washington was outstanding, and then he goes
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: to the East West Shrine game and was fantastic. That
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 5: short area quickness out of the slot helps him get open,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 5: give his quarterback a target. And so I'm eager to
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 5: see what he can do in training camp and see
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 5: if he can possibly earn a role with you on CG.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: Dupree He to me he was.
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 5: The better of the two Alabama tight ends oots actually
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 5: got drafted by the Seahawks in the fifth round. I
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 5: believe Dupre I thought was the better of the two.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 5: He's the better pass catcher.
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 5: He's a really well built kid, six y five, two
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 5: hundred and fifty six pounds.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: He was one of the best.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 5: His dad's really big into weightlifting, and so so was
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 5: he and so he I think it was like thirty
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 5: two reps on the bench that really stood out. He
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 5: wasn't a high volume target in that Alabama offense. He
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 5: only had twenty one catches this past year, but I
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 5: think you have a good size, speed athlete. When he
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 5: was targeted, he caught the ball, and I think he
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 5: was good enough as a blocker that you thought, all right,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 5: if I want a true wide tight end, prototypical hand
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 5: in the ground, inline guy, this guy could potentially be that.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 5: So a little surprised he didn't get drafted, because I
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 5: think he has the what a lot of teams are
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 5: looking for as a blocker and receiver to earn a
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 5: roster spot.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I was surprised too. So that's why we
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: had you on Dan, because we went a whole interview
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: did not mention Will Campbell's name once because we wanted
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: to talk to you about the deep the deep cuts,
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: as we do on this show. You had all two
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty six guys in the Beast again this year,
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: right fifty seven, Yeah, to fifty seven. I short turned
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: to you one guy there, but it must.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 5: Have gotten It was close there that final pick by
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 5: the Patriots. I was, you know, you never know, it
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 5: could be someone that I overlooked, but it was my
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty seventh corner with Kobe Minors, so
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 5: it wasn't someone that I had ranked highly. But you know,
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 5: I hope he ends up making the roster and has
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 5: a good career.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 3: But I'm just happy you was in the Beast.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, So you can read Dan at the Athletic of course,
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: and the Beast. The Athletic subscription is worth it just
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: for the Beast alone every single year, So make sure
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: to give Dan a follow and give him a subscription
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: as well. That's going to do it for today's episode
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: of Patriots Catch twenty two, and I will be back
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: next week. Very special thank you to our very special
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: guest Dame Brugler, and we'll see you guys next week.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks for watching.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Fred thanks for tuning into the show.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 4: If you really want to help us, make sure that
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 4: you like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 4: Podcasts or Spotify, and also make sure you follow us
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 4: on the New England Patriots YouTube page to see this
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 4: show and everything else that we do here What the Patriots.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot,