Latest / WriterCon / High-Tech Thrillers with Janet Yeager

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High-Tech Thrillers with Janet Yeager · WriterCon

0:00
Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast, I would say.
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Speaker 2: First things first is going it, don't give up, don't
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Speaker 2: and believe in yourself, and going ahead and having avail
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Speaker 2: yourself to opportunities that are around you.
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Speaker 3: Welcome to writer KNG, a gathering place for writers to
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Speaker 3: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Do
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Speaker 3: you have a desire to write? Every successful writer started
0:26
Speaker 3: with their first book. All it takes is determination and knowledge,
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Speaker 3: and writer cong can provide that knowledge. Your hosts are
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Speaker 3: number one national best selling writer William Bernhardt, author of
0:36
Speaker 3: more than sixty books, including The Superman Wars, and Laura Bernhardt,
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Speaker 3: Award winning author of The Wantlan File series and Shadow
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Speaker 3: of the taj.
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Speaker 4: Thank you Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
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Speaker 4: us today. We just in the last episode celebrated our
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Speaker 4: two hundredth episode, so that makes this the first podcast
1:01
Speaker 4: of the News centennial. And we have a new opening
1:05
Speaker 4: courtesy of Jesse Ulverrich. Thank you Jesse. And it's the
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Speaker 4: last episode of the year, the Christmas episode. So look,
1:12
Speaker 4: we're all decked out in Christmas or Hankkah stuff with
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Speaker 4: our ugly except they're not actually ugly sweaters. I like
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Speaker 4: your sweater. You're wearing wonder Woman, aren't you, Laura. Yes,
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Speaker 4: but of course I stuck with the book nice on
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Speaker 4: brand is ugly Hankah sweater a thing I don't know.
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Speaker 3: No, I just kept getting invited to ugly Christmas sweater
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Speaker 3: parties and I was like, I got to find something,
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Speaker 3: and by I mean Michelle, find me something that I
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Speaker 3: can wear it to these parties. And we discovered this.
1:47
Speaker 3: This by the way, this is a ladies vest, but
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Speaker 3: it works obviously, just.
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Speaker 1: A gold shirt just works in general, so.
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Speaker 4: That's all that matters.
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Speaker 1: There is actually a bow tie that I couldn't find,
2:00
Speaker 1: so it also adds to the all. Beyonce at the.
2:02
Speaker 4: South has no doubt. So has everybody got their Hanakoh
2:06
Speaker 4: or Christmas preparations done? You're ready for the event? M
2:12
Speaker 4: are you asking me?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, are we ready? We're a week away?
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Speaker 5: Well, you know that I always have a lot of
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Speaker 5: rapping to do at the last minute, So yeah, they're
2:25
Speaker 5: still rapping.
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Speaker 4: Mmmm. Well if it's just rapping rap rapping, that's fine.
2:31
Speaker 4: How about you, Jesse.
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Speaker 3: Again, it's it's pretty easy for me, someone without kids,
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Speaker 3: to celebrate Hanukkah, So you know, I've gotten two gifts
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Speaker 3: for my nephews. I'll get my dad something.
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Speaker 1: I think. I think I'm pretty good, excellent.
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Speaker 5: We are blessed with large families.
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Speaker 4: So okay, guys, here's something I read on the internet today,
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Speaker 4: so it must be true. Apparently in Iceland the tradition
3:02
Speaker 4: they didn't mention this, or maybe they did when we
3:04
Speaker 4: were there, Laura, you tell me, But in Iceland, the
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Speaker 4: Christmas Eve tradition is that you give your loved ones
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Speaker 4: a book and then everybody spends Christmas Eve evening together,
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Speaker 4: reading together and drinking hot chocolate. What do you think?
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Speaker 5: I love it? That sounds amazing.
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Speaker 1: I thought I thought it was actually like a finish
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Speaker 1: tradition because Michelle and I have done this.
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Speaker 4: But that's close to Iceland, that's true.
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Speaker 1: I can never remember the name.
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Speaker 3: It's very like, you know, uh, North European Icelandic type
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Speaker 3: of work.
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Speaker 2: I know.
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Speaker 4: Let's ask Ai. Then we'll have a definitive answer.
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Speaker 5: Probably a wrong answer. But remember the guy we brought
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Speaker 5: back that creeple eastairs in your window we brought.
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Speaker 4: Back, Yeah, from Iceland. I remember that. And he's like
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Speaker 4: a natural national treasure or something.
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Speaker 5: Yes, they have a whole bunch of these guys who
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Speaker 5: come around and I guess terrorize people.
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Speaker 4: That's a Santa clause variant. I guess. Oh, okay, all right,
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Speaker 4: it is.
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Speaker 1: It is Icelandic, so I think.
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Speaker 3: And it's got the greatest name of all, which is
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Speaker 3: your Book of flood Nice, which is Yule Book Flood.
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Speaker 1: That's what it translates to. So there you go the.
4:27
Speaker 4: Things you learned on this podcast, I know. Our interview
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Speaker 4: today is with Janet Jaeger, who is a graduate of
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Speaker 4: several writer cons and cruises, and now, big surprise, she's publishing.
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Speaker 4: Her second book just was released. It's called Two Birds,
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Speaker 4: One Stone. We'll be talking to Janet very soon. But first,
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Speaker 4: the news. Since this is the Christmas episode, I mean,
5:10
Speaker 4: come on, the news stories needed to be good news,
5:13
Speaker 4: good news for writers, which is always welcome. On our
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Speaker 4: last episode, the two hundredth episode, we dug deep into
5:23
Speaker 4: what has happened and what might happen in the future
5:26
Speaker 4: about Amazon and AI and big surprise, we got two
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Speaker 4: news stories for you this time, and one of them
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Speaker 4: involves Amazon, and one of them involves Laura. No, it
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Speaker 4: really doesn't, it's AI, but you knew that already, so
5:41
Speaker 4: I just wanted to see if you were paying attention.
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Speaker 4: News story number one, Amazon offering AI translations foreign language translations.
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Speaker 4: This is big news. I would have to say. They're
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Speaker 4: offering this to KDP authors, which might be self published,
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Speaker 4: but you know, everybody has to have some way of
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Speaker 4: getting their books up on Amazon. Small presses and indie
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Speaker 4: presses use it a lot too. Anyway, They're offering a
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Speaker 4: free AI translation of their work into foreign languages so
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Speaker 4: they can then sell it in other countries, which many
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Speaker 4: people have been wanting to try and sell their books
6:30
Speaker 4: in other countries. Spanish speaking countries by a lot of
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Speaker 4: English language books. Germany buys a lot of books, especially
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Speaker 4: crime novels, but the cost of translation was just too daunting.
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Speaker 4: If Amazon can bring this off, that would be a thing.
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Speaker 4: Right now, only five percent of the books in the
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Speaker 4: Amazon Store are available in more than one language, but
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Speaker 4: imagine if everything was available everywhere. Anyway, they're going to go,
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Speaker 4: and I should say I have not been invited to
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Speaker 4: try out the beta. Usually I'm on their list, but
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Speaker 4: not this time, probably because I don't know anyway, so
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Speaker 4: I can't say how well it works. But to me,
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Speaker 4: if it even provides something remotely resembling a valid translation.
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Speaker 4: We've opened up a new income stream for authors. Just
7:27
Speaker 4: to be clear, you, after the translation is done, the
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Speaker 4: author can review it see if it works, or if
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Speaker 4: you don't speak the language, hire a translator. But I
7:37
Speaker 4: would think that the cost of having someone edit a
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Speaker 4: draft that already exists is cheaper than having them do
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Speaker 4: it from scratch, unless, of course, the translation is horrible.
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Speaker 4: So I think this might be a good thing. Laura,
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Speaker 4: what do you think? Does it sound appealing to you?
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Speaker 5: No, Bahama, they're sticking with our hats. You're nigh, I'm naughty.
8:01
Speaker 5: So no, it doesn't. And for the very reason that
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Speaker 5: you just mentioned. I mean, we've already touched on this.
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Speaker 5: I don't really trust AI. I've tried hot take, I've
8:12
Speaker 5: tried doing snippets of allowing AI to do audio work,
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Speaker 5: and I have not had great success with that. There's
8:21
Speaker 5: so many mispronunciations and misinflections that I spend so much
8:27
Speaker 5: time sitting there trying to correct it that I just
8:29
Speaker 5: kind of abandoned the project. I feel like this would
8:33
Speaker 5: be the same, and if it's being translated into a
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Speaker 5: language that I don't speak, which it would be now,
8:40
Speaker 5: I can't even check it. I don't know if it's
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Speaker 5: right or not, which I think means I have to
8:46
Speaker 5: go find someone else who can still do this. So
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Speaker 5: it just feels like it doesn't It doesn't really feel
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Speaker 5: like a solution. It sounds like an extra step. Maybe
8:55
Speaker 5: you're correct, maybe it would make the edit easier for
9:00
Speaker 5: someone than just doing a complete translation, but I think
9:03
Speaker 5: I still have to find someone to look at it
9:06
Speaker 5: for me and verify that it's been correctly translated, because
9:11
Speaker 5: we don't want to glut the market with a bunch
9:12
Speaker 5: of terrible translations that people will give terrible reviews.
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Speaker 4: To know, and you know that it will. In the
9:23
Speaker 4: first year of operation, probably the program will double in accuracy,
9:30
Speaker 4: just you know, as they roll it out and use
9:34
Speaker 4: it and find ways to tweak it and make it better.
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Speaker 4: Up front, they're only offering English to Spanish and German
9:42
Speaker 4: to English translations, but I'm sure that will expand over time. Jesse,
9:47
Speaker 4: how about you. Would you read Let's say it's a
9:50
Speaker 4: really good, acclaimed science fiction novel that really interests you,
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Speaker 4: but it's been AI translated into English from German. I
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Speaker 4: guess you read it.
10:00
Speaker 3: I guess if it hasn't been touched by a human being,
10:03
Speaker 3: I still wouldn't trust it.
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Speaker 1: So like it does need to be reviewed, it does.
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Speaker 1: I think it does speed up.
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Speaker 3: The process, and I think this will allow authors who
10:11
Speaker 3: want to get their books and other languages a cheaper
10:14
Speaker 3: way to do that. It's still going to require some
10:17
Speaker 3: work because language, as we know, is fluid, and I
10:21
Speaker 3: don't think AI is going to get you.
10:23
Speaker 1: Know, some of that might be a you know what, what.
10:27
Speaker 3: Was the term, Like something that's like a shorthand in
10:32
Speaker 3: you know, in Chinese is not going to translate. It's
10:36
Speaker 3: going to translate strange into English, right, and a person
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Speaker 3: would know how to make that sort of like analogy
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Speaker 3: thing work better. AI is just going to translate it
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Speaker 3: straight right, So it's not going to get all jokes
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Speaker 3: are lost.
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Speaker 4: Humor forget it, metaphor just going to be confusing. Yeah,
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Speaker 4: I think you're probably right about that, all right. News
10:57
Speaker 4: story number two, Grammarly, which is already AI, is now
11:02
Speaker 4: adding an AI assistant to help you fix your writing
11:06
Speaker 4: even more. I'm going to assume most people listening know
11:09
Speaker 4: what grammarly is. It's a website based program that allows
11:15
Speaker 4: you to drop in some of your wonderful pros and
11:19
Speaker 4: let their program tell you what needs to be fixed.
11:22
Speaker 4: They call it Grammarly, but I don't think their suggestions
11:25
Speaker 4: are limited to grammar. I'm sure there's also spelling and
11:30
Speaker 4: this sentence sucks too many semikolins or commas or whatever.
11:35
Speaker 4: I haven't really used it, except that I did go
11:38
Speaker 4: to the website once and mess around. But having been
11:42
Speaker 4: doing this for thirty five years, I like to feel
11:45
Speaker 4: like I can edit pretty well myself and Laura, as
11:48
Speaker 4: you very well know, when we do our seminars and whatnot,
11:52
Speaker 4: I'm trying to teach people to edit themselves. So anyway,
11:55
Speaker 4: that's just to say I don't know much about Grammarly.
11:58
Speaker 4: But they have bought this email client called Superhuman that
12:04
Speaker 4: was several months ago, and now they're renaming themselves Superhuman
12:08
Speaker 4: and launching an AI assistant called superhuman Go that's built
12:14
Speaker 4: into the latest and greatest Grammarly. So the assistant can
12:18
Speaker 4: give you writing suggestions, tips, give your feedback on your writing,
12:22
Speaker 4: even email or something like that. You can connect it
12:25
Speaker 4: to other apps like Google Drive or Gmail or Google
12:29
Speaker 4: Calendar so that it can probably get more context and
12:33
Speaker 4: learn more about you. So Eventually it not only helps
12:37
Speaker 4: you with your writing, it helps you organize or improve
12:41
Speaker 4: your writing life. I assume I haven't done it like
12:45
Speaker 4: the one before, but that's what it sounds like to me, Laura.
12:49
Speaker 4: Sound like anything you'd use Let me.
12:52
Speaker 5: Guess, Let me guess. Surprising no one, probably not. You
12:58
Speaker 5: know that I am just always it's kind of a
13:01
Speaker 5: big chaotic mess, but still managed to get all my
13:05
Speaker 5: stuff done, So why mess with what works? I don't
13:08
Speaker 5: know that I want to try to be more organized,
13:12
Speaker 5: but I do think anything that could help someone else
13:19
Speaker 5: improve their writing can be a good thing, and as
13:23
Speaker 5: long as it's as long as it's correct. I always
13:27
Speaker 5: will tell my students if it's something that a tutor
13:31
Speaker 5: can help you with, you can use it on your writing.
13:35
Speaker 5: So you do the writing and then you can figure
13:37
Speaker 5: out how to fix it. And if it's used over
13:41
Speaker 5: and over again, I like to think that eventually the
13:44
Speaker 5: humans writing should progress and improve as well.
13:49
Speaker 4: Jesse, I know on previous podcasts you've emphasized I am
13:53
Speaker 4: not a writer, although that doesn't really mean you could
13:56
Speaker 4: not write a sentence without assistance.
13:58
Speaker 1: But it's true.
14:00
Speaker 4: Do you see anything described here as ever being useful?
14:04
Speaker 3: To you, well, yes, here's here's the thing I knew
14:07
Speaker 3: about Superhuman the email client beforehand. While I couldn't well honestly,
14:12
Speaker 3: I couldn't afford it, it itself was a very useful
14:17
Speaker 3: way of using whatever AI whatever they want to call it,
14:21
Speaker 3: to help you sort of sort your email box to
14:23
Speaker 3: make sure you're seeing the important stuff first. You know,
14:28
Speaker 3: I use like when when Google when I'm writing most
14:32
Speaker 3: of the time, I'm not writing my emails in Google.
14:34
Speaker 1: I'm using a third party thing not important. But when
14:36
Speaker 1: I do write them in in.
14:38
Speaker 3: Google and Google, someone just gives me like, hey, you
14:41
Speaker 3: could phrase the sense this way. I'm like, Okay, that
14:43
Speaker 3: actually does make sense, right, because you know, as as
14:48
Speaker 3: we all know, we all write longer emails than people
14:50
Speaker 3: are going to read, right, That's one and two. We're
14:56
Speaker 3: not necessarily the best conveyors of our own information that
14:58
Speaker 3: we're trying to you know, share, and so sometimes in
15:02
Speaker 3: that regard, something that is summarizing or reading your writing
15:06
Speaker 3: is useful. But like I haven't used gramarly in years
15:10
Speaker 3: just because it was very like resource intensive on every
15:13
Speaker 3: computer I try to use it on. But you know,
15:17
Speaker 3: I I'm not against this part of it. It's just
15:21
Speaker 3: again like, how is it used, who is it stealing from?
15:24
Speaker 1: Et cetera.
15:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, good points, all right, Craft Corner, Well, craft Corner
15:31
Speaker 4: this time is going to be kind of a homegrown affair.
15:34
Speaker 4: I've been spending a lot of time scheduling and tapping
15:39
Speaker 4: people to provide these segments for twenty twenty six, But
15:44
Speaker 4: for this episode, I thought I'd use the home team
15:47
Speaker 4: to talk about the craft issue uppermost in people's minds
15:51
Speaker 4: right now? What gifts can I give my writer friends
15:55
Speaker 4: or my writerly friends, which is not really a craft
15:59
Speaker 4: But work with me here, I'm trying to do a
16:01
Speaker 4: really brilliant segue between two things that are not remotely alike. Okay, Lara,
16:09
Speaker 4: what gifts are you giving your writerly friends this year?
16:14
Speaker 5: Is this just a surreptitious way you're hoping to find
16:17
Speaker 5: out what I'm giving you for Christmas?
16:20
Speaker 4: I thought I would find out what you wanted for Christmas?
16:25
Speaker 5: All right?
16:26
Speaker 2: In truth?
16:27
Speaker 5: In truth, I do have a stack of some beautiful
16:31
Speaker 5: hardcovers with unique cover designs and sprayed edges, just absolutely
16:40
Speaker 5: some beautiful books that some people will be getting this
16:43
Speaker 5: year for Christmas. I absolutely think that gifting someone a writer,
16:52
Speaker 5: clong cruisezing for a writer that you love and want
16:58
Speaker 5: to help support, helping them on their way, and then
17:05
Speaker 5: stocking stuffers, fantastic pens, beautiful little notebooks and folios. That's
17:14
Speaker 5: that's I think my my gifts are probably pretty boring.
17:17
Speaker 4: Honestly, don't sound boring to me at all. Jesse, what
17:21
Speaker 4: are you about? What about you? Hanikah? Gifts writer friends, writer,
17:27
Speaker 4: leave friends book.
17:29
Speaker 3: We've talked about this often on this podcast. The answer
17:33
Speaker 3: is coffee, mugs, literary.
17:36
Speaker 4: We've talked about this.
17:38
Speaker 1: I talked we all have too many mugs.
17:41
Speaker 4: This is true.
17:42
Speaker 5: We say mugs in front of Bill. I've traumatized him.
17:46
Speaker 5: I've got a mug problem.
17:47
Speaker 4: Mugs the day of the.
17:51
Speaker 1: Years, gift cards to nonprofit bookstores.
17:55
Speaker 2: In the area.
17:58
Speaker 1: What else did you do again?
18:00
Speaker 3: Pens, notebooks, depending on how they write, what theirtel is,
18:03
Speaker 3: but you know, things to help make their writing experience
18:07
Speaker 3: just a little bit nicer.
18:09
Speaker 4: Very nice. All right, thank you, and next time we'll
18:13
Speaker 4: be back in the new year with a new slate
18:16
Speaker 4: of Kraft Corner segments. Okay, well, wait.
18:19
Speaker 5: A minute, what are you giving your friends? You left
18:22
Speaker 5: yourself out?
18:24
Speaker 4: Oh I never answer questions I just make up stuff
18:28
Speaker 4: and throw it out at you guys. That's the easiest
18:32
Speaker 4: thing on earth. I don't know what am I giving
18:35
Speaker 4: my fruit baskets or some I mean, I'm giving you gifts,
18:40
Speaker 4: but not as a writer. I will say, as you know,
18:44
Speaker 4: if I reverse the computer, you'd know I not only
18:48
Speaker 4: love books, I love beautiful books. So some of the
18:51
Speaker 4: you were talking about Fairylute and other sprayed edges, I
18:55
Speaker 4: think those are great and other people are doing that.
18:58
Speaker 4: Now when are we going to do one fooling of society?
19:05
Speaker 4: Is well, A lot of the books that are behind
19:07
Speaker 4: me right now beautiful books. So I think that might
19:11
Speaker 4: be the best gift.
19:12
Speaker 5: For I would love if we had a big box
19:14
Speaker 5: of your Superman Wars arcs that we could wrap up
19:17
Speaker 5: and send up to everyone. That would be the best.
19:20
Speaker 4: Yes, that would be excellent. May I don't know when
19:24
Speaker 4: those are going to come out, but I don't.
19:26
Speaker 2: Think we're going to go Christal too soon.
19:27
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, all right, let's talk to Janet Jaeger.
19:45
Speaker 4: Janet Jaeger, welcome to the podcast.
19:48
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to
19:52
Speaker 2: be here.
19:52
Speaker 4: It's great to see a friendly and familiar face here,
19:57
Speaker 4: and you probably already know what my first question is
20:00
Speaker 4: is going to be if you could offer writers one
20:03
Speaker 4: piece of advice, what would it be?
20:06
Speaker 2: I would say first things first is going in, don't
20:10
Speaker 2: give up, don't and believe in yourself and going ahead
20:14
Speaker 2: and having avail yourself to opportunities that are around you,
20:20
Speaker 2: such as writer Con and the writer conferences, the writer podcasts,
20:28
Speaker 2: and there is help around you. And so don't don't
20:32
Speaker 2: ever give up, and believe in yourself and believe in
20:35
Speaker 2: the story. Because if you don't tell the story, who will.
20:39
Speaker 2: So I would strongly encourage people to go ahead and
20:45
Speaker 2: do do put the put the fingers to the keyboard,
20:48
Speaker 2: and go ahead and settle in and tell the story
20:51
Speaker 2: that you know that is that doesn't that absolutely matters?
20:56
Speaker 4: Well I love that answer, and I point out that
20:59
Speaker 4: people listening that you were kind of before we started.
21:03
Speaker 4: You've got the trifecta of writer.
21:05
Speaker 2: Con because I've been to that.
21:07
Speaker 4: Conference several times. I know you've been to the cruise
21:11
Speaker 4: at least once, and you've been to the retreat too,
21:14
Speaker 4: so you've kind of done it all. Well, yeah, do
21:19
Speaker 4: you remember what first brought you into the writer con universe.
21:23
Speaker 4: The writer converse, I should call it the writer converse.
21:27
Speaker 2: I like the right. I like the term writer converse.
21:30
Speaker 5: I think it happens back to the Red Sneaker. It's like.
21:39
Speaker 2: I would say, I believe I saw you at a
21:43
Speaker 2: conference and I was intrigued with what you were, what
21:47
Speaker 2: you were offering. And then of course I bought your
21:50
Speaker 2: books on writing, and that taught me a tremendous amount.
21:55
Speaker 2: And once you start reading these things and you're like
21:58
Speaker 2: and you live very close, and so it was an
22:00
Speaker 2: opportunity to go ahead and get to know you guys
22:04
Speaker 2: better and what you offer. And as as I went on,
22:09
Speaker 2: then I went to I went to writer con conference
22:13
Speaker 2: and learned a lot, and of course getting more and
22:16
Speaker 2: more intrigued. And then Darry Hollow came up, and now,
22:20
Speaker 2: of course you guys are doing it at cane Break,
22:23
Speaker 2: but they are. That was a wonderful, Absolutely, I think
22:28
Speaker 2: that was one of the big changes for me. That
22:31
Speaker 2: was kind of moved me, elevated me up as far
22:34
Speaker 2: as yes. And then of course I did the cruise
22:39
Speaker 2: last May and was hoping to do it, but a
22:43
Speaker 2: bridge tournament kind of intervened and I'm going to the
22:46
Speaker 2: national tournament in St.
22:48
Speaker 4: Louis. Oh, no, we can't compete with a bridge.
22:50
Speaker 2: Well you can't, you really can't. So for next time,
22:55
Speaker 2: For next.
22:55
Speaker 4: Time, you're going to the nationals in bridge. That's I
23:00
Speaker 4: played in a scrabble tournament once, but I got creamed.
23:02
Speaker 4: So let's all.
23:06
Speaker 2: You know, I'm gonna be playing against some pretty heavy hitters.
23:09
Speaker 2: So who knows it is? Right?
23:11
Speaker 5: Well, tell us about that cruise experience.
23:14
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you it was one of those things. Okay.
23:17
Speaker 2: First off, it was Alaska, which you and that was
23:23
Speaker 2: what I found was amazing about It was besides of
23:27
Speaker 2: course your instruction every day and kind of holding my
23:31
Speaker 2: feet to the fire, which was a good thing because
23:33
Speaker 2: you had you were called upon. I mean I kind
23:35
Speaker 2: of made half a joke about it was like they
23:37
Speaker 2: was in Alaska and they called on me. I had
23:40
Speaker 2: the actually do homework, but it was absolutely worth it.
23:45
Speaker 2: But also the level and depth and breath of the writers,
23:51
Speaker 2: my fellow writers and people were doing science fiction, people
23:57
Speaker 2: were doing historical stuff. It was anything and everything. And
24:02
Speaker 2: so if you don't think for people who are listening,
24:05
Speaker 2: for people questioning whether or not they should do it,
24:08
Speaker 2: I would absolutely encourage you because you will find people
24:13
Speaker 2: who have similar interests. You will find people who when
24:18
Speaker 2: you listen to the first chapter of their book, you go, oh,
24:21
Speaker 2: I want to read that. I never knew that I
24:24
Speaker 2: wanted to read this, but absolutely this was amazing stuff.
24:28
Speaker 2: So in the quality of the writing, the quality of
24:31
Speaker 2: the information. And although I am a thought I was
24:36
Speaker 2: a plotter, I not. I was actually a pants er. However,
24:40
Speaker 2: I'm working on my new book and I am using
24:43
Speaker 2: that cruise that handbook religiously. I'm actually filling it out
24:49
Speaker 2: and doing it. So for those of who are listening,
24:52
Speaker 2: it's absolutely wealth worth the investment. It's an investment in
24:56
Speaker 2: yourself and it's an investment in your writing.
24:59
Speaker 1: So do it.
25:00
Speaker 2: Absolutely do it.
25:01
Speaker 5: And it's fun and it's fun.
25:06
Speaker 2: Yes, I yet to mention that it was fun. It
25:09
Speaker 2: was fun. I enjoyed, thoroughly enjoyed myself.
25:13
Speaker 5: Okay, Now your first book was Brothers of Honor?
25:17
Speaker 2: Brothers?
25:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, what where did that story come from?
25:22
Speaker 2: That story came from? That was actually if you can
25:25
Speaker 2: look behind me, you see that there's a paint, there's
25:28
Speaker 2: a photograph, and it's that is about my father and
25:31
Speaker 2: his three friends. And they were resistance fighters in Norway
25:36
Speaker 2: during World War Two and they were added to the
25:39
Speaker 2: Nazis by a family member and so as teenagers, they
25:44
Speaker 2: had to make some hard decisions and one of them
25:47
Speaker 2: was to steal a row boat and to go ahead
25:50
Speaker 2: and row across the North Atlantic two hundred and fifty
25:53
Speaker 2: miles in open water. And we could possibly go wrong
25:57
Speaker 2: with that scenario, right, So sorry was about I thought
26:01
Speaker 2: it was action adventure, but it really ended up being
26:04
Speaker 2: about people coming together under horrific and very stressful situation
26:13
Speaker 2: and how do they resolve this and how do they
26:15
Speaker 2: learn and they grow? So I loved writing that I
26:19
Speaker 2: was that was near and dear to my heart, and
26:23
Speaker 2: I was so so pleased that with the response that
26:26
Speaker 2: I got, and it just kind of sent me on
26:29
Speaker 2: my path. Yea amazing, thank you, thank you.
26:35
Speaker 4: And now you have a new novel, right, Two Birds,
26:37
Speaker 4: one Stone, which is kind of a high tech thriller.
26:42
Speaker 2: That well, and it's about a woman leading a double life.
26:46
Speaker 2: And on one hand, Joanne Corvus is a mild mannered
26:51
Speaker 2: mineral manager. Don't say that three times too fast, and
26:56
Speaker 2: she is she works in it. She works in a
26:59
Speaker 2: small town on a small ski town in northwestern Montana,
27:03
Speaker 2: very kind of similar to where I grew up actually,
27:08
Speaker 2: and so that is one part of her life. The
27:10
Speaker 2: other part of her life is that she works as
27:13
Speaker 2: her name is Iris Blackrail, and she works for Bolton's
27:17
Speaker 2: Valor Security Forces as an encryption officer. So she is
27:22
Speaker 2: also in charge of making sure that money laundering is
27:26
Speaker 2: not happening and that there's not drones that are trying
27:29
Speaker 2: to breach computer the systems, and so it's about those
27:35
Speaker 2: two worlds colliding and also about her what happens when
27:41
Speaker 2: her English her childhood English pen pal, shows up and
27:47
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, things start going haywire, their bodies
27:52
Speaker 2: and people disappear. There's money laundering, there's drones showing up
27:56
Speaker 2: where they shouldn't be, and so she is having to
27:59
Speaker 2: try to figure out if she can trust this person,
28:02
Speaker 2: if she has to rely only on herself, what are
28:05
Speaker 2: her options and what kinds of things, How can she
28:08
Speaker 2: truly you know, how can she truly trust people when
28:12
Speaker 2: she's been burned in the past. And so now she's
28:15
Speaker 2: trying to go ahead and overcome those things and solve
28:17
Speaker 2: some solve some things that are not going well for her.
28:23
Speaker 4: So she's trying to this is and this is said
28:26
Speaker 4: in Montana, right is, which I think maybe where you
28:31
Speaker 4: have roots. But of course now you're in Oklahoma, and
28:33
Speaker 4: like you know, it's never fair, people will do well, and.
28:38
Speaker 2: The accent probably I think I've been no insult.
28:41
Speaker 4: To Montana's I just want to say, that's not what
28:43
Speaker 4: I meant. Okay, why Montana though.
28:48
Speaker 2: It's never far from my heart, it's never I am. Yes,
28:51
Speaker 2: I have lived in Oklahoma for a very long time,
28:54
Speaker 2: but all the stories that tend to come from Montana
28:59
Speaker 2: and the things that I grew up with, or that
29:02
Speaker 2: there were stories that you hear when you're growing up,
29:05
Speaker 2: or that you think you know about, and there's always
29:09
Speaker 2: this one unanswered question and you start digging and you
29:13
Speaker 2: find out that the story that you think you know
29:16
Speaker 2: is not the story that actually happened. And so then
29:19
Speaker 2: you start digging. And that's one of the things that
29:21
Speaker 2: I love to do, is to find those things out.
29:24
Speaker 2: So that's something that I love to explore. I grew
29:29
Speaker 2: up on a mountain lake and there's lots of there
29:33
Speaker 2: were a lot of things that were a little different
29:37
Speaker 2: and not always in a bad way, but also not
29:42
Speaker 2: always good. So I'm having fun kind of exploring that.
29:48
Speaker 5: True, You've also written a lot of short stories, some
29:52
Speaker 5: of which have won awards. Yeah, what do you prefer
29:56
Speaker 5: writing novels? Short stories?
30:00
Speaker 2: Okay? I like I'm finding that I like to be
30:05
Speaker 2: backed into a box. If somebody tells me that one
30:08
Speaker 2: of the stories that you that I wrote was for
30:11
Speaker 2: the Montana History Council, and the story is that you
30:16
Speaker 2: you pick a photo photo and they have thousands and
30:21
Speaker 2: you have to write a story that's six hundred and
30:23
Speaker 2: fifty words long. That's lot of it. And so I
30:28
Speaker 2: did that, and then I went ahead and I did
30:31
Speaker 2: something for Emerge Magazine and I and I won the
30:34
Speaker 2: one for Montana History Portal, which I didn't hear anything.
30:38
Speaker 2: And then one day I get this big package and
30:41
Speaker 2: it's like congratulations you want and I'm like, well, okay, great,
30:46
Speaker 2: And then I've also but I really enjoyed. I like
30:51
Speaker 2: the challenge of trying to tell a story in a
30:53
Speaker 2: very short thing. But of course I also loved go
30:58
Speaker 2: ahead and write and see where the story is, and
31:03
Speaker 2: that's kind of where the plotting and pantsing thing kind
31:06
Speaker 2: of comes in. I love the fact that I can use,
31:09
Speaker 2: for example, when you're in your handbook the sixty card outline,
31:15
Speaker 2: and then have some fun and play with it and
31:18
Speaker 2: have find out what that sometimes thinks. Characters emerge, storylines
31:25
Speaker 2: become more interesting because you've given yourself a framework. But anyway,
31:30
Speaker 2: I like both. But yeah, I've had some fun with
31:35
Speaker 2: the short stories too.
31:37
Speaker 5: I'm impressed when someone can consistently and successfully knock out
31:42
Speaker 5: short stories. I feel like every time I've tried to
31:44
Speaker 5: write a short story, it turned into a whole novel.
31:47
Speaker 5: I don't seem to That just doesn't seem to be
31:49
Speaker 5: a skill that I am in possession of. So you've
31:53
Speaker 5: touched on this, you said you were you think maybe
31:56
Speaker 5: more of a panser. You think you're transitioning to a
32:00
Speaker 5: water planner.
32:02
Speaker 2: Yes, and wills that big grin? Will you look at
32:07
Speaker 2: that big grint? The cruise? Okay? I had gone pardon
32:11
Speaker 2: me the cruise okay. One of the things that one
32:16
Speaker 2: of the things I love about going to writer con
32:19
Speaker 2: in all its forms, is that you do have us
32:22
Speaker 2: do do an outline, and for actually you break it
32:26
Speaker 2: down even farther than that, you say, what what one
32:29
Speaker 2: word describes this? What ten words? What write a sentence about?
32:33
Speaker 2: This and breaking it down and making you think very
32:36
Speaker 2: hard about what you're actually writing.
32:39
Speaker 5: And so.
32:41
Speaker 2: To me, it's it's hard. That part is actually probably
32:44
Speaker 2: the most difficult part of it, because you have this idea,
32:46
Speaker 2: you know where it's going to go, but the fact
32:50
Speaker 2: that you have to structure it and then going ahead
32:54
Speaker 2: and taking the the things makes it a more I'm
33:01
Speaker 2: becoming more of a plotter and I don't really want
33:04
Speaker 2: to give give up the ability to kind of riff
33:09
Speaker 2: a little bit on it, but having a roadmap is
33:13
Speaker 2: now becoming far more important, and especially with short stories,
33:17
Speaker 2: it goes and it feeds directly into short stories because
33:20
Speaker 2: you have your back against the walls. Are going to
33:22
Speaker 2: be fifteen hundred words, two thousand words, six hundred and
33:25
Speaker 2: fifty words, and having that, having that background and having
33:31
Speaker 2: that framework is extremely helpful to me. So that has
33:35
Speaker 2: been one of the best takeaways of working with you guys.
33:40
Speaker 5: I love it. Well, Bill's a great teacher.
33:43
Speaker 2: Well both of you are very good, very very good.
33:47
Speaker 4: Well she's naughty and I'm nice.
33:50
Speaker 2: Well you are on the right hat right now.
33:54
Speaker 5: Well, it's because I'm an editor, right, I'm the mean one.
33:58
Speaker 5: I have to come in and do the the mean
34:00
Speaker 5: editing at the end.
34:02
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but I mean mean, but also with a heart.
34:08
Speaker 2: I think that that's also something to actually try very
34:10
Speaker 2: hard not to be mean about it.
34:12
Speaker 5: It's it's yeah, our books are our babies. Yes, yes,
34:16
Speaker 5: What does a typical writing day look like for you?
34:19
Speaker 5: What is? You have a process that you could share
34:22
Speaker 5: with us.
34:23
Speaker 2: One of the things I do is that I because
34:27
Speaker 2: I'm now starting to outline, and because I'm starting to
34:31
Speaker 2: have a well, I always had kind of had a
34:34
Speaker 2: framework because a lot of the store I know the beginning,
34:37
Speaker 2: the middle, and the end. I do know that. So
34:41
Speaker 2: I go ahead and I'm able to go ahead and
34:43
Speaker 2: pick up and see where things take me within the framework.
34:47
Speaker 2: And so, like I said, I know that I'm going
34:50
Speaker 2: to write a couple thousand words, which actually doesn't take
34:53
Speaker 2: that long. Sometimes I will do like twenty five minute
34:56
Speaker 2: sprints and take five minutes off and just kind of
34:59
Speaker 2: do something, and then I'll go back and do it again.
35:03
Speaker 2: And you'll find that, like doing so, you write far
35:07
Speaker 2: more than you think you do. And sometimes there's this
35:11
Speaker 2: thread that comes in you go, oh, that's a good line.
35:15
Speaker 2: I know I came from interesting, so and off we go.
35:19
Speaker 4: Isn't that frustrating sometimes though, because I think it takes
35:22
Speaker 4: me about twenty five minutes, if not more, just to
35:25
Speaker 4: get rolling every day. And then once I'm finally rolling
35:29
Speaker 4: and my fingers are moving, I don't want to stop,
35:32
Speaker 4: but you do right, or I.
35:34
Speaker 2: Think that I've I can probably write for four hours,
35:38
Speaker 2: and after that my brain's dead. I don't have I
35:42
Speaker 2: just don't have the temperament. I don't have the discipline
35:45
Speaker 2: to be able to do longer than that. I know
35:47
Speaker 2: that there are people who can write eight and ten
35:50
Speaker 2: hours a day and I can't. I absolutely can't do that.
35:54
Speaker 2: But I would say four hours and then I like
35:59
Speaker 2: to go ahead and see where it's going next because
36:02
Speaker 2: I have an idea. But am I going to put
36:05
Speaker 2: the words in the way that I want them to be?
36:08
Speaker 2: And will I be able to go ahead and have
36:12
Speaker 2: them come close to what's in my head? Am I
36:15
Speaker 2: describing it in a way that am I saying what
36:20
Speaker 2: I want to say? And then that's then I start
36:22
Speaker 2: to edit it, which you need to stop doing that.
36:30
Speaker 5: I heard someone once say to take that break when
36:33
Speaker 5: you still know what comes next, So that you take
36:37
Speaker 5: that break and you kind of you know, get a drink, refresher, tea, whatever,
36:41
Speaker 5: and when you come back to it, you've still been
36:45
Speaker 5: churning over it while you were taking your break, but
36:47
Speaker 5: you'll come back fresher and you still can hop in. So,
36:51
Speaker 5: like you were saying, Bill, you can. You can keep
36:53
Speaker 5: chugging forward, but you still get that break. And I'm
36:56
Speaker 5: I'm thinking I need to try that. I think when
36:58
Speaker 5: I sit down and I tell myself, okay, I just
37:00
Speaker 5: need to edit right whatever for four hours straight.
37:03
Speaker 2: Feels like a lot.
37:04
Speaker 5: But I think, if I look it up, well myself,
37:06
Speaker 5: just go for this length, get up, get some sort
37:10
Speaker 5: of reward for it, a piece of chocolate, some tea, whatever,
37:14
Speaker 5: and then go back to it, and then I maybe
37:15
Speaker 5: don't blaze over and start well.
37:19
Speaker 2: Also, I also sometimes believe that when you are off
37:25
Speaker 2: doing something else, like for example, I go to the
37:28
Speaker 2: gym and I go to water classes, or I'll doing
37:31
Speaker 2: a zomba class and I'll be listening to the music
37:35
Speaker 2: all right, but there will be something and that it'll
37:37
Speaker 2: be like and I go, oh, I know what I'm
37:41
Speaker 2: gonna do. I know what I'm gonna do, Okay. And
37:43
Speaker 2: it's just sometimes if I think, if you focus too much.
37:46
Speaker 2: Sometimes it just kind of like the muse sort of
37:49
Speaker 2: shuts down a little bit. And then if you just
37:51
Speaker 2: kind of go, okay, talk to me, what's going on?
37:54
Speaker 2: And then something come up and you go, oh, I
37:57
Speaker 2: like that, okay, and there we go yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:00
Speaker 5: I love those goosebump moments where I'm like, oh, I know,
38:03
Speaker 5: I know, I know what I need to do.
38:07
Speaker 4: All right, One more big question for you, Janet, what
38:11
Speaker 4: are you working on now or what can we expect
38:14
Speaker 4: to see from you next?
38:17
Speaker 2: Okay? So, while I was on Writer Coron in March
38:21
Speaker 2: or in May that the Writer Cruise, I was working
38:24
Speaker 2: on something called Erratic Behavior, and that is four sets
38:29
Speaker 2: of DNA, three bodies, two houses, and a woman dealing
38:32
Speaker 2: with erratic behavior. And I've finished that, and then I've
38:37
Speaker 2: sent that off to my editor at wild Rose Press,
38:41
Speaker 2: and I'm hoping that it will go ahead and she'll
38:43
Speaker 2: accept it, and then it'll get published and I get
38:46
Speaker 2: to go and meet with you friendly folks next year. Yay.
38:50
Speaker 2: But while I was right, while I was finishing it,
38:53
Speaker 2: I went, oh, wait a minute, I know another story.
38:57
Speaker 2: It's going to be a sequel. I didn't even know
39:00
Speaker 2: it was going to be a sequel, but it's going
39:02
Speaker 2: to be a sequel. And so because there was these characters,
39:07
Speaker 2: you know, I had flushed them out so well during
39:10
Speaker 2: our using the handbook that I got to know, you know,
39:15
Speaker 2: I actually interviewed these characters and all follow this stuff,
39:19
Speaker 2: and darn if it doesn't work. You guys know what
39:23
Speaker 2: you're doing. It's great, so going ahead, And all of
39:26
Speaker 2: a sudden, I realized all these characters could go ahead
39:29
Speaker 2: and have they need to have an adventure. And I
39:32
Speaker 2: have an idea of what I'm going to do with that.
39:36
Speaker 2: And I don't have a tagline yet. I can just
39:38
Speaker 2: tell you that tentatively it's called alphabet row and that's
39:43
Speaker 2: all I can say about it right now.
39:45
Speaker 4: Well, like everything else, Yes, Danet, thank you so much
39:51
Speaker 4: for being on the podcast.
39:52
Speaker 2: Thank you, and thank you guys for meeting me. I
39:54
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays for every to everybody.
39:58
Speaker 2: I hope you guys have a wonderful time. Say hi
40:01
Speaker 2: to Buster for for me and the new cat. Okay, anyway,
40:11
Speaker 2: both of whom are right there saying why did dad
40:14
Speaker 2: close the door? Went outside the door right now, I
40:19
Speaker 2: can hear her so anyway, thank you guys, and I hope,
40:25
Speaker 2: I hope you are going to have another writer coun
40:28
Speaker 2: cruise next week.
40:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, going to the Eastern Caribbean and March. Yeah.
40:34
Speaker 2: Yes, And I can't do that because what she can't make,
40:37
Speaker 2: I'm going to be down over cars?
40:39
Speaker 4: You mean after that? Yes, it seems likely.
40:42
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well, thank you, say bye bye.
41:00
Speaker 4: Words. Well, the writer con cruise worked for Janet Jaeger, right,
41:05
Speaker 4: you heard it from her own lips? Could it do
41:08
Speaker 4: the same for you? This time? We're going to be
41:12
Speaker 4: leaving from Fort Lauderdale for an eight day cruise through
41:15
Speaker 4: the Eastern Caribbean, which is a new destination for us.
41:20
Speaker 4: So we're talking about beautiful water, tropical vistas, and over
41:26
Speaker 4: twenty hours and beaches. Yeah yeah, and we're going on
41:30
Speaker 4: Holland Hall. What's it called Holland America, right, because we
41:35
Speaker 4: went with them during the Alaskan cruise, and I think
41:38
Speaker 4: you and I both thought this was kind of a
41:40
Speaker 4: step up, So we're doing that again. Didn't you like
41:43
Speaker 4: Holland America?
41:44
Speaker 5: I loved it. I thought it was just such a
41:47
Speaker 5: great experience and it just felt a little more adult
41:52
Speaker 5: and a little classier, if that makes sense. Yeah, not
41:55
Speaker 5: to down on anybody else, but I think for what
41:58
Speaker 5: we're doing, it's perfect.
42:00
Speaker 4: I think you're right. So anyway, that's what we're doing
42:03
Speaker 4: for the writer Con Quiz Quiz Cruise this year. Laura
42:07
Speaker 4: will be there, I'll be there, Betsy Kolakowski will be
42:11
Speaker 4: all teaching. Got Catherine Sanz one of the top literary
42:15
Speaker 4: agents out there, willing to meet with each and every
42:19
Speaker 4: person she'll speak to. But I mean, we're all going
42:23
Speaker 4: to be available to you for eight days. Where are
42:25
Speaker 4: we going to go? And I should mention that all
42:28
Speaker 4: of these classes I'm talking about will happen when the
42:31
Speaker 4: boat is at c when it's docked. We know you
42:34
Speaker 4: want to go out and go look at stuff and
42:37
Speaker 4: buy refrigerator magnets and stuff.
42:39
Speaker 5: So it's happy Bara.
42:41
Speaker 4: Yes, is that a thing?
42:43
Speaker 5: Yes?
42:44
Speaker 4: Okay, So writer Con Cruise it's March seventh through the fifteenth.
42:50
Speaker 4: I hope you can join us. Visit the website which
42:53
Speaker 4: is writer Con dot com. W R I T E
42:56
Speaker 4: R C O N dot com. A Right, until next time,
43:03
Speaker 4: keep writing and remember you cannot fail if you refuse
43:08
Speaker 4: to quit. All right, have a happy holiday. See you
43:11
Speaker 4: next year,