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Gladiator (2000) · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
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My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the armies of the north,
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general of the Felix legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius,
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father to a murdered son, husband
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to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance in this life or the next.
0:35
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Citizen Frame.
0:38
A little delay getting these ones out, that's on me. Well, I can blame Trevor,
0:41
but I'm not going to let Trevor take the bullet all the time.
0:44
I'm classy like that. Because it's not true?
0:47
So I got a correction to make. That's right. I made a mistake.
0:52
You know, a good host will always, always fess up if they made an error. And I will fess up.
1:00
We did the movie The Monkey, Stephen King's The Monkey. We tore it apart pretty good.
1:04
So that being said if we're going to tear a movie to
1:07
shreds we got to back it up with
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facts and so forth it's not a major one but i
1:14
kept referring to the lead actor as theo rossi theo rossi is a good actor but
1:19
he's not the actor who played the brother it was theo james and i know it's
1:24
no big deal i'm sure you just catch it as a full pawn move on but you know we
1:30
came at the film pretty good, so I just want to get my facts out better. Facts straight.
1:33
So it was Theo James was the lead actor in The Monkey, not Theo Rossi.
1:38
See? I do my homework. For a plan. Not like you, you know? Yeah.
1:43
Well, we decided, we told you we were going to get away from horror for a bit,
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and we are. We got a good lineup, guys.
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We've got the next two Gladiator films. We are going to have Unforgiven.
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We're going to have Quick and the Dead.
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Kind of like a little nod to Gene Hackman, who sadly just passed.
1:58
And we're going to start tackling the rest of the Mission Impossible.
2:01
Is to get ready for the conclusion with the final reckoning coming out in May.
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And they're probably peppering some other stuff.
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And yeah, this one we've had some requests for. So I'm looking forward to it
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and revisiting it. And that's Gladiator.
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Haven't seen this film in a long time.
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I don't... I just... When I was writing my notes and stuff like this,
2:27
I just couldn't stop laughing because every time I think of Gladiator now, I think of,
2:32
Peter Graves. What? Right. And he goes, you know, hey, Billy,
2:38
ever seen a grown man naked?
2:39
You ever watch Gladiator movies?
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Right. You remember that airplane?
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I do, yes. Yes. Leslie Nielsen? Just, I just can't. I just watched it the other
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day and I just started laughing.
2:59
But anyways. I haven't seen Airplane in years, so I must check it out again.
3:05
So I must. Actually, just as a little bit of useless information.
3:10
Oh, God. Okay, if anything involves fucking neighbors, I'm going to kill you.
3:15
No, no, no. Trust me, coming up with these two Gladiator podcasts,
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I have a plethora of Doctor Who references.
3:22
But no, with Airplane, the air hostess also plays Tom Green's mother in Freddy Gets Fingered.
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So there you go.
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I got to get a new co-host. I just, I got to do something different.
3:41
Who did I piss off in heaven? Or hell? Who did I piss off in hell to get you?
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Yeah, well, it ought to be just stuck with me. Fuck me.
3:51
All right. Jay, we're talking Gladiator. Massive, massive award-winning film.
3:56
Russell Crowe didn't get the best actor award. I think he got it the year after
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for Cinderella. No, for Beautiful Mind.
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No, no, no, no. He got it. He got it for this. He won it two years in a row
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for this and also A Beautiful Mind, unless I am mistaken myself.
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No, you're wrong. You're wrong.
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He lost, I believe, to Kevin Spacey for American Beauty. Oh,
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I think you might be right there, but did he? I thought.
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He was nominated a year back to back.
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Right. His nominee, but he didn't get it until... Are you sure about that?
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I would double check that. Google it right now. All right, you know what?
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Now you're pissing me off. Google it right now. Okay, no, no,
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I'll take your word for it.
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But I was always of the opinion, not that I give a shit about the Oscars.
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I mean, I don't even watch it.
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But I was always of the opinion that he won two years in a row for this.
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The only actor to win two years in a row of late would be Tom Hanks.
4:47
Yes, and for Philadelphia and Forrest Gump. Yeah.
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Yeah. right yeah no shouldn't they oh I love to see Forrest Gump in Gladiator.
5:01
That'd be fucking awesome stupid is what stupid does well we'll talk about the
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second one on that one well we'll get to it alright.
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But this one this movie goes to our boy Russell Crowe who plays Maximus we got
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Commandus, Joaquin Phoenix, Lucila Connie Nielsen, Proximo as Oliver Reed, Richard,
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Dreyfuss, Richard Harris as Marcus Aurelius, Derek Jacobi, who I always like
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to see, as Gracchus, and then you got other. David Hemmings as Cassius.
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Just a good bunch of actors there, character actors and supporting actors,
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and obviously leads in there as well.
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Michael Sheen is in this as an extra as well. You know, whenever he is taken
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out to be executed near the start, after the opening segment, that's Commodus,
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orders him to be taken away and basically executed
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one of the guys there one of the assassins is played
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by michael sheen before he was famous yeah so
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is tony curran yes exactly assassins as well and tony curran derek jacoby who
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you also mentioned and michael sheen have all of course appeared in doctor who
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and this is like a who's who of doctor who both films ridley scott started off in Doctor Who but yeah,
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but Derek Jacoby yeah he was also in I Claudius connecting to the ancient Rome
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thing and also he played the master famously and very brilliantly in Doctor Who there you go,
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I'll try anyways.
6:38
Yeah, do you see we got Sven Olyvorsen in this too?
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Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Arnie's funny. And we play Tiger, and we find out why he's called Tiger.
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Yeah, the big guy. Yeah, he's the one he takes on one-to-one,
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and then he brings up some Tigers to help him.
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Yes. And then you've got, I think he's German, Rolf Mahler.
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Yes, he's been in quite a few things as well. Yeah, he plays Hag,
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and he's a good character too. So it has all these, it was nice to see other,
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you know, these big guys are always like sidekicks of Arnie's or somebody always
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play like a universal soldier or something like a robot.
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So it's nice to see them getting their due on bigger roles like this.
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Yeah. So I wanted to give them a little shout out, but you got some great actors in here.
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You got Jaimon Unsu, who I like to see a lot. He plays Juba.
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Yes. So again, just a wonderful cast. And I've always liked Connie Yilson. She's cute.
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She is, yeah, I mean, she's very strong here. Well, we'll get their performance
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in the second one soon enough.
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So we open up, like I always like to see a good action sequence,
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and he does the exact same thing in the second one. So what he does here is he sets you up.
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Within the first 10 minutes of the film, you already know the kind of guy Maximus
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is. He's going to be loyal to his team. He's a great fighter.
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That's all you need to know. And he's thinking of his wife and kid. You know that.
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He's such a great guy And such a sort of Moral guy and you know very competent
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And all this here He would almost put you in mind of Patrick Swayze In Roadhouse
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you know but maybe not that good.
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Hey, Maximus, I used to rape guys like you in prison. What?
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What? Yeah, yeah. Although to be far back in ancient Rome, they would have said
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shit like that and done shit like that.
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Yeah, they would have said sit down.
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Yeah, yeah, exactly. And as soon as I go there. Anyways, we'll get that one,
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the second one, for sure.
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But I just love, I love the whole, I mean, I'm not a big medieval times kind
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of guy, but I do like the old,
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fighting, the old catapults are so cool, I think if you put a catapult in the movie you got me,
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I'm in and I love the arrows on
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fire and sticking it into people's faces I personally love
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the German berserker barbarian types who they're fighting
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against and while I think both gladiator
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films especially the second one do a play
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loose and fast with actual historical accuracy I mean you're going to get that
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but they're pretty cool here especially in this opening sequence you know this
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battle it sort of works very well got it I miss cinema like this and with Gladiator
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all these extras and these huge elaborate sets,
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and you don't get that anymore now they just double up with CGI and stuff but.
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What he does is and you'll definitely notice when we're in Rome especially in
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the Coliseum sequence he has the tendency to because he can't do big scale for
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price reasons or because of it just didn't look right.
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Whatever reason, he puts you into the action. So he makes big scale scenes look smaller.
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If that makes any sense, that's what I'm saying. He has a tendency to put you
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into the fight rather than showing you the whole mass forest.
10:00
He puts you in the- Yeah, it's more crucifixion stuff. Yeah,
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as if the cameraman is more on the fighters.
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And you'll see that when he's in the Coliseum. You'll see glimpses of the Coliseum,
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but he's not going to go pan out and show you a whole thing of all these extras
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and stuff, because probably for affordability.
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But he's just very clever at where to put the camera. Oh, well,
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he knows what he's doing, obviously.
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Ridley Scott, I would say as well that there is some, quite a bit of early CGI here.
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But again, it shoots spurringly, along with actual real extras and stuff.
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You know, obviously they've used it with things like, you know,
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the sort of wide open shots of like ancient Rome and the Coliseum and stuff.
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But like you say, it's edited very quickly so you don't dwell on it.
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And there's plenty of actual, you know, real actors and extras there. So it works.
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Yeah, I think that's why. I don't think he wanted to use, like they do in video
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games, you have a whole crowd, they'll do the same crowd. Yeah, it's not overkill here.
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They'll copy and paste the same crowd all over the arena.
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Exactly. And it's the same people waving. I don't think he wanted to do that.
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So that's why he scaled it back to make it look bigger. If that makes any sense, what I'm saying.
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No, it does 100%. What they do, even in modern films,
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is just, like you say, they will cut and paste the same sort of CGI extras sitting
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in an audience and say a theater or a Coliseum and just put them into another
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part of it. It's quite cheap and lazy.
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And yes, you don't really notice it to the naked eye, but generally you sort of overall notice it.
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You know when there's real actors and extras there, Or not. Yeah.
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And if there are shots like that, they're quick cutaways. Yes.
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He doesn't linger on them. That'll work hell.
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So why are they, when we watch these, period, you know, I was thinking about
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this. Yeah. So Maximus is badass.
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And I was wondering why, you know, we'll compare Gladiator 2 in a moment, well, later on.
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But I think Gladiator was
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so big and such a hit at the time It's because we haven't gotten a film like
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this in a long time Of this scale A decade Of these extras Because when I think
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of CCB DeMille Or you think about
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the Bible and the Ten Commandments And Spartacus Spartacus and Ben-Hur,
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yeah, exactly Where they actually use real extras And they use all these props
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and matte painting And he still does that here Still uses Matt,
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you can see it, which is, I love Matt.
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I don't care if it looks crappy or not, I want my Matt. Oh, this is a return
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to the old school epic, you know, that we had with likes of Ben-Hur and Spartacus
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and the Ten Commandments and stuff.
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And I think people loved it at the time, and it did end up sort of spawning
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a sort of a revival of this type of genre.
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Well, you did. They didn't do well, unfortunately, so they came and went.
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Yes. That's why Gladiator 2 sat for a long time because he did,
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like Seth mentioned, the podcast Kingdom of Heaven, which is a wonderful film, but nobody saw it.
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Troy bombed, which I love Troy. I don't know why people didn't like it. I did.
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So you have these big, huge, big, massive budget films come out to piggyback
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on Gladiator, but they never found the audience, and there's way too much money involved.
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So studios cut back on them, unfortunately.
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So they lost again. You know, you have that recharges to films of these genres
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that come out once in a while, these little pockets of, and it happened,
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especially in the eighties, it happened quite a bit, like with vampire films
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and you have werewolf films and you have robot films, you know, that kind of thing.
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Yeah. But unfortunately. I don't remember one, well, probably about 10,
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15 years after Gladiator Exodus with Christian Bale.
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So it was still. I liked that one. And that's another one that got. I saw it in the cinema.
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That was really Scott. I can't really remember much about it. That was really Scott.
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Was it? I think it was. Right? Right?
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But that one did okay, I think, but it still wasn't the big hit they thought it would be.
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But the reason you see Gladiator 2 is out now is thanks to films,
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well, quite frankly, Game of Thrones. Yeah, series, TV shows.
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Yeah, so I think that's kind of resurgitated a bit. So it'll be interesting
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to see the success of Gladiator 2, you know, does another second coming of this genre.
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Let me ask you this. Speaking of the genre, why are the Sons in all these films douchebags?
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Well, I think Roman emperors, not all of them, but I think Roman emperors in
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general were a bit crazy and known for being a bit insane.
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I mean, it actually touches on it a lot better, I think, although without as
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much depth here with Joaquin and Commodus in the second one.
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But the Romans were very, let's just say, promiscuous. that have shagged anything.
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So there was all sorts of STDs and incest and stuff going on.
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So there were sort of, there were always a bit nuts, especially these,
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not all, but a lot of these emperors. So they're playing on that.
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And it works here, definitely, especially in this first one with Joaquin,
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who is absolutely fantastic in the role.
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Yeah, the character is... I got confused with the character.
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Commandus? Commandus, whatever his name is. Commodus.
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Commandus. See, they pronounce... I see Commandus, but it's pronounced something
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different. Yeah, Commodus. I don't give a fuck. I'm going to butcher these names.
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Right, so it's okay for me to... It's not okay for me to butcher Michael Douglas.
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Okay, first of all, first of all, the names here spell the way they sound, Commandus.
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And I guarantee you I'm saying it right, but there's probably a...
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Some kind of an accent you're supposed to say with it or something.
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Commodus. That's different.
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Michael Douglas is an everyday husband. I mean, what the fuck?
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How could you not say his name?
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And who's the other one? Well, I'm getting the Roman ones right,
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so that will do me. Who's the other one you always fuck up? It's hilarious.
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Now, tomato, tomato, let's call the whole thing off. I don't give a shit.
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What's the Corey's name? Corey, what's his name? The young actor.
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Corey HM, Corey Feldman. What's his name? Corey Feldman.
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Laurie Feldman? No, Fieldman, I would say. No, there's no I in it.
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I know, but it's just the way it can be pronounced.
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It's the way it's not spelled? Is that what you're saying? Look,
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the bottom line is, you are mispronouncing Commodus. Do you have a bit of respect to the Emperor?
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Okay, he's a piece of douche. Well, I'm watching him, so the whole film is pretty
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much, it's a simple story, quite frankly.
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It is a very simple story.
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Until we get to the second one, fuck me.
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But the whole point is, obviously, Richard Harris, who I love, he's Aurelius.
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Aurelius, is that correct? Yes. Marcus Aurelius.
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Marcus Aurelius. I got the name right. Aurelius. I can say that one.
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And so he's pretty much on his death, but he knows that.
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He's letting his son know that I want Maximus to take over because you're not
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fit. You're a fucking idiot.
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Yeah. Well, worse than an idiot, he's like a moral. and he's just he's like
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a piece of shit basically well here's at first I kind of felt sorry for him
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because there's some Joaquin Phoenix is very good in this I'm not a big Joaquin
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Phoenix fan it is superb writing and also acting and,
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you know I would even go as far as saying Joaquin Phoenix here is actually the
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real star of the show as opposed to now Russell's great but he hasn't,
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He doesn't show as much depth. Oh, yeah, you're completely wrong.
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You're completely wrong on that. No, it does show depth. He's great,
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but not as much. But Maximus, no, no.
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What Russell Crowe brings to this role is what Clint Eastwood brings to his roles.
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He doesn't say much. He's reserved and quiet. He's Mad Max.
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He just wants to, you know, he's there to do what he has to do.
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And he sells it by his emotions, by his looks.
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And is the direction he's given. Just because he's not a laughing,
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crying and then laughing and crying and laughing like Joaquin Phoenix acting
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batshit crazy, he does it more subtly and you feel for this character.
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I would say Joaquin Phoenix has... Even though he doesn't do much. He doesn't say much.
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No, don't get me wrong. Russell's great here and he's an amazing presence,
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but I just think Joaquin Phoenix's character, the character now,
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I'm not talking about the acting,
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has more complexities and nuances and
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depth there and he runs with
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it yes russell's very much the leading man but
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whacking for me anyway is more
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memorable and there's just something more i don't
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know i see a lot of this is quite theatrical and sort of stagey including the
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dialogue i would say but you know you'd easily see this you know a lot of these
18:57
scenes performed on stage and it's almost Shakespearean but Wacken he can certainly
19:04
can't, and I'm not saying Russell can't,
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but Wacken certainly runs with the sort of complexities of the character of
19:10
Commodus and it's great, it's great to watch Now watching this film a couple
19:14
of times and watching his performance.
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I was confused by it because when he kills his father he's obviously crying
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because he doesn't want to have to kill his father but he does it because he can't have Maximus.
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Taking over what's rightfully his.
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And so, and then there's a scene where he sees the dad's bust of his dad,
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a statue and he starts fighting with, with a sword.
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Yeah. As if just to, to vent or to get a piece with what he did to his father.
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And he starts breaking down there.
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And so there's, there's in the beginning, the first couple of acts of the film,
19:53
I kind of felt for the character.
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Cause I felt like maybe he's not going to be giving his chance.
19:57
Maybe, but then you realize he's a fucking social path. He's a social path. Yeah.
20:03
And again, that backs up what I'm saying about Joaquin's performance and the
20:07
writing of the character, because I think every actor does their part.
20:15
But Russell Crowe had the harder role to play, because he had to be more subtle,
20:20
more reserved, and you still have the feel for that character,
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where Joaquin, it's kind of like you playing the villain and playing the Joker.
20:27
Everyone's going to love the guy who plays the Joker. Because he's a little
20:30
batshit crazy and just do what he wants.
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But that's how to take away from Joaquin Phoenix. This is probably,
20:37
personally, I would say Joaquin Phoenix's best work.
20:41
I would agree, tend to agree with that. I mean, he's great in Joker,
20:45
whether you like the film or not, but I think this is even better because it
20:48
is, for me anyway, it's more subtle, you know, and complex.
20:53
You mean, you feel for this guy, and you realize he's probably...
20:57
Probably a result of incest himself, you know, because there's all sorts of
21:01
little sort of subtleties and stuff.
21:05
But you do feel sorry for him in those early scenes when Marcus Aurelius rejects
21:10
him for Maximus, you know?
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It's good writing of a villain where you actually, the audience understands
21:16
his reasons for being a villain.
21:18
He's not just like, you know, there's a reason for him being an asshole.
21:23
In a way, I think he's an asshole anyway, you know?
21:27
Well, you know, it's, the film is, whether really Scott has a bomb or it's a
21:33
good film, one thing he always does right is cast well. Yeah.
21:37
And this one, the character, I didn't get his name, I should have wrote it down,
21:42
but his character is Quintus.
21:44
Good character, actually, where he's the right-hand man of Maximus. Yes, yes.
21:49
But when, when he's the fan, Commandus, goes to Quintus. are you with me?
21:56
Because you need to go get him. You need to go, you know, you need to execute him.
22:00
Because Maximus says I'm not going with you. Because he knew it was about the
22:04
plan that he was supposed to take over.
22:05
But now he's just going to go get his family. But now he finds out he's going
22:09
to slaughter his family. So he's got to get back over there before his family's killed.
22:13
And so Quintus doesn't have nothing to do with that.
22:16
But he does take the side of his emperor, which is kind of what you would do
22:20
anyway, to be honest with you.
22:22
And, but his character again, in the background, has a good arc as well.
22:27
Yeah. And all the characters have something to do.
22:31
Yeah, there's a point to them. There's a point to them, exactly.
22:34
They're not just there for casualty.
22:37
Yeah. You know, they're not a slasher film, which I kind of wanted to see.
22:42
But, and of course when he gets to what they do to his kid and his wife, it's terrible.
22:52
And it's a great scene because he's on the horse And it's only for 30 seconds, but it's on the horse.
22:57
Then he's got a beard. So it just sees him just, and his horse pretty much,
23:00
I think, dies just from getting there on time.
23:03
Yeah. And he gets there, and obviously, the carnage has already happened.
23:08
They hung his. They've been crucified, which was a regular way of killing people by the Romans.
23:13
Yeah. And this is where we meet John Manishu, who I'm a big fan of.
23:18
He's a good actress in so many films. Yeah, he's very good here.
23:23
Again, and then he's got Hagen, who we meet the big guy, and then we meet Proximo.
23:30
Now, these three characters are the ones I really enjoy watching.
23:35
I love seeing Oliver Reed.
23:36
I've always liked Oliver Reed. We talked about him with burnt offerings.
23:40
A little bit of a partier. I know him and Rush O'Crowl did not get along.
23:46
Apparently, now, according to what I've read,
23:50
apparently the reason oliver reed died during
23:53
this apparently he was sober for a certain amount
23:56
of time and i don't know how true this is
23:59
but it's what i've read reported but apparently a member of the crew whenever
24:04
they were filming it challenged them to a drinking competition and that's what
24:09
killed them i don't know how true that is or not but you know you don't challenge
24:15
of fucking recovering alcoholic to a drinking competition. You know, what the fuck?
24:19
But who knows how true that is or, you know, whatever.
24:23
Well, you know, you had three really great actors, David Hemmings,
24:28
Oliver Reed, and Richard Harris.
24:29
I love Hemmings' eyebrows, which are actually his own.
24:32
Yeah, yeah. They all went through, I believe, their flashes of...
24:38
Their demons. With the drink, yeah.
24:41
And sadly, they all died right after this film, or not during it.
24:45
Yeah, Russell Crowe as well, apparently, has struggled on and off.
24:48
I don't know how bad or how serious, but I know he's had some demons.
24:52
I know he's taken some time off and why a lot of those actors pull away from
24:58
Hollywood and they pull away from the limelight.
25:01
And, you know, good on Crowe. I'm a big Russell Crowe fan. I like him.
25:05
Yeah. And do you know where he started off?
25:08
Don't, don't even, don't even, you say it, I'm done, I'm ready for the podcast.
25:14
Neighbours, everybody needs good, he did, he started Neighbours, so he did.
25:18
And I would say as well that, see, a couple of, a few years ago,
25:23
just whenever the COVID lockdowns were being relaxed, a couple of female friends
25:28
of mine were in Rome on holiday, and they met him in a restaurant whenever he
25:34
was filming the Pope's Exorcist, I think it was.
25:38
And they said he was a great guy. Really nice guy.
25:41
Well, I'm sure he is. He's one guy I like to go out with and just hang and shoot the shit with.
25:45
Yeah. Because you saw that he's just be like, you know, the guy's guy.
25:48
Be cool. Oh, yeah, yeah. Be cool to hang out. What's the thing? You know?
25:52
I do like where I introduced Proximo.
25:56
And Oliver Reed is just, he plays a somber bastard great.
26:02
And he's talking about how you owe me for those giraffes. They're queer. That's right.
26:08
You sold me a couple of queer drafts. That's right. They don't do anything.
26:12
Yeah. And so he gets a deal and this is where he gets a deal.
26:16
So he ends up getting Juba, Hagen, and our boy Maximus. The Spaniard.
26:23
And he gets to bring them to a gladiator school.
26:27
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he ends up getting the trifecta because these three are all badasses.
26:34
Yeah, yeah. And also, it sort of revealed that Proximo himself was once a gladiator
26:40
and a slave, but he had sort of won his freedom.
26:43
You know, it's funny you say that. We're going to talk about Gladiator 2,
26:47
which is pretty much just a remake, by the way.
26:52
I'll get to it. I just can't stand the laziness, but we'll be talking about it soon. Go ahead. Yeah.
27:01
So, Lucila...
27:06
It's lucilia lucilia i think
27:09
i believe so yes lucilia yes lucilia okay
27:13
so i get confused sometimes with her motives now i think she plays both sides
27:20
but she but she's winking at the other two like she's talking to him but she's
27:25
talking to the senate guys yes and she goes long story short.
27:32
They go, we need to have this plan. We need to do this. We need to do this. We need to do this.
27:36
And she pretty much just goes, you speak out against my brother, he will kill you.
27:42
You have to kill him. But she's on the side of the Senate.
27:46
And was that a Jacobi, essentially? Yeah.
27:50
She's on the side of her father. She's trying to honor her father's memory because
27:56
his dream, he was a good man.
27:57
His dream was Rome for the people and this sort of thing. And she knows that
28:01
that's not going to happen on her brother.
28:04
So while she's pretending to be on her brother's side, she's in with Derek Jacoby. I know.
28:11
She's in with them, but she's not in with them, but she's winking at them that she's in with them.
28:16
Yeah, but she does end up sort of fully, sort of backing them,
28:20
you know? Yeah, of course.
28:22
Now, Lucius is Maximus' son. Well, we don't find that out until the next one.
28:30
We do in this one, I think. I really think we do. For me. I hear what you're saying.
28:36
Let me finish real quick. I hear what you're saying. A lot of people didn't catch that.
28:41
And it might be a cheat that I knew Gladiator 2, so I can kind of say, well, I knew it.
28:45
No, when you watch Gladiator again, he makes out with her pretty good when she
28:50
goes to visit Maximus, when she finds out who he is.
28:54
And she makes a comment about him.
28:58
That is that's why he's that's why Lucius is so fascinated with him because
29:06
it's his father that's and you can see it you know it I mean I can certainly
29:12
accept it but I think before Gladiator 2,
29:16
while it does make sense that he's his father in terms of the stories you're
29:20
told in Gladiator for me I was more leaning towards Commodus his uncle also
29:26
being his father because there are,
29:30
say Gladiator 2 didn't exist and I know a lot of people wish it didn't exist,
29:34
but it is just say we only had Gladiator the first one here I think it's left
29:40
very much open ended for people to make their own minds up whether it is Maximus
29:46
or Commodus as the father of Lucius No,
29:50
it's Lucius and Maximus because at the end where he's dying spoiler alert.
29:58
He tells her Lucius is free,
30:01
Yeah, it's not going to be taken in a couple of ways. Yeah, you can say he's
30:05
talking about where Keith Phoenix is dead, blah, blah, blah.
30:07
But no, there was too much. There was a relationship between them two.
30:12
Yeah, but it's also heavily played that there was also a relationship.
30:15
You see, yeah, there's a scene where he... You see where... You have this thing for the set stuff, man.
30:22
You're talking about Back to the Future, which was your favorite part of the
30:25
film, and then you're talking about with other films.
30:28
Dude, it was too... It was, uh, it was, it was 200 AD, it was,
30:34
it was of the time, man. It was 200 AD. It's what you did.
30:37
It was a second century. Yeah.
30:40
You fight lions, rhinos, and you, you're bopping your sister.
30:44
It was the, it was 200 AD, man.
30:48
No, but I think there's a lot of, you know, joking aside, I think there is a
30:53
lot of even darker subtext with the character. There is a scene where he lies
31:00
on top of her and starts kind of kissing on her.
31:02
Yes, stuff like that. But then he kind of falls asleep on her and she's like scared.
31:06
So you don't know if he's raped her, if she's actually raped her before.
31:10
You don't know that. Yes, exactly. You'll never say it.
31:13
And there's also a scene where he watches Lucy asleep. So there is a suggestion
31:19
that he's also a pedophile.
31:22
Serious? No, no. Now you're going above and beyond at this point. I'm not.
31:29
Where are you reading that crap, dude? Do you go on the dark web and read this shit?
31:34
No, I'm just saying. I can read fucking subtext, and there is.
31:39
There's no subtext. I didn't get that. I got more of the argument that maybe
31:43
he was his son, and that's why he's really caring for that kid.
31:47
I can't. He's the one person he's kind to.
31:53
Yeah, but there's a sinister sort of undertone there as well. I would never, no.
31:59
There is, and I'm not saying that for shock value or to be controversial.
32:04
You sick fuck. Shut the fuck up.
32:07
No, but there is definitely, yeah, there's creepy vibes there,
32:11
intentional creepy vibes, but it's not explicitly stated.
32:15
You'll love with Maximus. Let's just get away from that topic.
32:19
Yeah. You need help. Let's move on.
32:23
Wow. Did you watch Gladiator movies with you?
32:30
Yeah.
32:34
Oh, okay. You all right there? That was a good one. I'm sorry.
32:38
That was funny. Come on. I'm sorry.
32:40
That was all right. That was a class. I reference Airplane like I did in the
32:44
beginning of the... Oh, forgive me.
32:45
Well, at least you backed that up. At least there's consistency there. You know what I mean?
32:49
So, I love when Max would go and say, I refuse to fight. Three seconds later, he's fighting.
32:56
Yeah. We have no choice. For dramatic sort of purposes, you know?
33:00
Yeah, I love the fights. I love when that woman gets cut in half.
33:04
Yes, with the chariot. She's in the chariot. Yeah. That whole chariot thing
33:09
is a reference to being her as well, I think.
33:12
I'm sure there's a lot of weeks and nots. He's definitely a Spartacus in here. Yeah.
33:17
But yeah, just the blend of the extras, the carnage, the consumer score.
33:24
It's just ramped up.
33:29
Who? David Hammings as a master of ceremonies. You know, he has big eyebrows.
33:33
You know, he adds to it as well. Yeah, yeah.
33:38
And yeah, it was just cool. The fight is cool. You only get,
33:42
I think, about three fight sequences.
33:44
The second one ramps it up quite a bit. We'll certainly be talking about it
33:47
in fucking hell. With the Tigers?
33:50
But, yeah, I love the Tiger ones too. That's when he fights Tiger.
33:55
That's our boy, Sven Olythorsen. Yes.
33:59
When he kills Tiger, he's so badass. Axness is just badass.
34:05
Oh, no, no. And Crow, to be fair to Crow, he's not just doing the acting.
34:10
He's also working here very effectively as an action star.
34:15
The funny thing is, he never went that way. Yeah, I know. He went for more serious roles.
34:21
Yeah, he went for... What's I like? He did some cool stuff that no one saw that
34:27
I really enjoyed, but...
34:29
Yeah. He's good neighbors. I like them in neighbors. Shut up.
34:34
Oh, my God. So, yeah, we got women being cut in half.
34:39
We got people limbs being ripped off and shit and arrows flying everywhere it's
34:44
just badass it's pretty gory and very well choreographed as well I would say,
34:50
and I love when because the second fight is with is with Tiger yeah and that's
34:58
the one he's just got to fight Tiger Man yeah and all the other Tigers,
35:02
and that's where I believe when,
35:07
Kalandis ask who's your name reveal yourself to me because he's wearing a helmet all this time,
35:14
and he finally does a day dump takes his helmet off because I'm Maximus and I will have my vengeance.
35:20
Maximus Decimus Moridius you know ruler of the northern armies and I will have
35:25
my vengeance in this life of the next it's a great scene and Joaquin's reaction
35:31
whenever he realizes who he is who the Spaniard is is fucking superb,
35:37
Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. He just looks at him like,
35:40
pretty much, pretty much is, is, is, is like, oh shit.
35:44
Yeah, he's in shock and he's just, he can't comprehend it. It's just brilliantly played.
35:48
Yes, a bit theatrical. A lot of this is very theatrical, but,
35:52
but it suits this type of epic, you know, that type of.
35:55
And what's funny, and I call it, it's a simple story.
35:58
It is, but it's, it's, it's well paced and well timed to all acting.
36:03
It's all, it's a perfect, perfect fit.
36:05
Yeah. All elements fit in perfectly.
36:09
And it's, he's put in a situation now, man, it's where, you know,
36:15
they do the thumbs up, thumb down, you want to kill him, you want to blah.
36:18
But the crowd doesn't want him dead because they, they got this cool badass
36:21
in the ring. They want to see what else they can do. It's kind of like they're Superman, right?
36:25
Yeah. Well, there's a David Beckham, the gladiators were the David Beckhams of their day.
36:29
Yeah. Yeah. So he, he cannot thumbs down to kill him because of the fact that
36:37
people would hate him or turn on him. The crud will turn on him. Yeah.
36:40
Yeah. So he's got to be the stinky bastard he is and do it outside the box and
36:46
not in front of everybody else. Yeah. So that's why he lets him live.
36:51
And this is the scene where I was still trying to figure out if this guy's just, you know.
36:57
A creep? A douche or what's up.
37:01
And this is where the scene where I kind of turn where I go,
37:04
Okay, no, he's a sociopath.
37:06
Yeah. And when Quintus Maximus, you know, what was his right-handed man,
37:13
he's in command now. He's got pretty much what Maximus was doing.
37:17
And so Quintus has been ordered to kill the three men who didn't successfully
37:24
kill Maximus. That's right, yeah.
37:28
And he goes, Quintus goes, these are good soldiers.
37:32
They thought barbarians raided the place and took them they thought he was dead.
37:40
And his response is alright you go ahead and kill your men and he makes him
37:45
give the order to kill his men and right there I was like okay now he's a sociopath
37:51
that was the scene where kind of like okay now there's nothing good in this
37:54
guy no no yeah he's basically he's a sociopath but he's also,
38:00
he's nuts But again, all like what we'll get in the second film,
38:05
it's so convincingly played and believably played by Wicking.
38:11
But we'll get to the second film soon enough, where there's no level of depth with the emperors.
38:16
There is another opposite kind of flip side of that coin where we're taken out
38:22
to the gladiators scene where they're having dinner or lunch or whatever.
38:28
And it's a nice little scene, but it's only about 30 seconds.
38:31
And all it is is Hagen and Maximus and Juba, they're having lunch.
38:43
And he gets called up while she crawled to grab his lunch. and he doesn't want
38:47
to eat it because he knows his time's up soon.
38:50
He knows he's going to come after him. He's going to kill him.
38:53
And so Hagen actually goes into a stew and test it for him.
38:59
And he pretends he's dying, but he does, he's not.
39:04
But it goes to show you that they have his back.
39:07
Well, yeah, exactly. The whole sort of point of that scene is the camaraderie
39:12
that's building between them and that sort of honor between them.
39:15
And they're his mates now.
39:17
Essentially they try to do something similar in the next one, but well.
39:22
But that's why the scene with the execution is the complete opposite.
39:28
He's losing control of his men already. Quintus doesn't want to be there now.
39:31
He's already losing Quintus by making him kill his own men. And on the flip
39:35
side of that coin we see these three guys who kind of just met and now they're
39:39
there to protect each other.
39:41
It's because Maximus is a genuine authentic leader and his men as former legions
39:47
in the Roman army they all sort of would die for him and it's now affecting
39:51
his mates here in the gladiator arena.
39:57
Now when he goes back into the arena and Maximus this is where he fights Tiger Man,
40:07
the crowd orders because he wins but he won't kill Tiger Man yeah he says no
40:14
i'm not gonna do it you kill your own man you go ahead but i'm not killing this man.
40:21
And who says it to him somebody says something to him oh he says it's a part he goes he goes,
40:29
about his wife yeah he won't kill him so he comes he comes back to commandus
40:34
goes goes goes back to him and he goes it's this tiger guy they tell me they
40:38
tell me your son schooled like a pig when he He was hung and your wife screamed like a whore,
40:43
which was being ravaged over and over again.
40:46
Slug. Oh yeah. No, that's the, that's the, the, the needle in them and really,
40:51
you know, get them to kill. Is it the tiger guy says that to him?
40:54
No. No, what's not? The man just said, he won't see, he won't kill him.
41:01
All right. And.
41:04
You forgot now. Shit.
41:07
And everyone's all, you know, Maximus, Maximus. Yeah.
41:10
He has that conversation with our boy, Comandus, when he's leaving.
41:17
When he's leaving the gladiator thingy. Yeah. And that's where he sees Cesaro.
41:23
Get the men. Tell them to find me. We're taking this place over.
41:26
Yes. Yes, that's right. This is where the coup is about to take over.
41:30
Everyone is involved now to get this man out of power. Yeah.
41:34
Mm-hmm. and that's the last thing he says to him but he's got to hold it together
41:38
he can't say anything to him because otherwise,
41:42
everything will go batshit crazy yeah I think that's what happens but there's like the Maximus'
41:51
former sort of legions and troops are basically still loyal to him and they're
41:56
waiting on the outskirts of Rome ready to attack he tells Cicero where's the
42:01
men he goes their bellies are full and they're bored Yeah, that's right.
42:06
So he means we'll get you back.
42:09
And so that's where we're at. That's right.
42:14
So Bracus, who is Derek Jacoby's character. Derek Jacoby, yes.
42:19
Right. I like Derek Jacoby. We always liked him. Oh, he's great.
42:24
No, don't, don't, don't. Don't say brilliant. And don't say Dr.
42:28
Fucking Who. He's a master.
42:32
Jesus Christ. He actually is a really memorable, short-lived version of the Master and Doctor Hood.
42:41
All joking aside, he's a bit of a nice little treasure anyway, Derek Jacoby.
42:47
I always liked him from Dead Again. Yeah. Kenneth Broad is a really fun thriller
42:51
with Emma Tomat and attempts. Yes.
42:56
It's a good little film, Rob Williams. People should check that one out.
42:59
It's a good one. Good who done it. I remember.
43:01
So he tells Gracchus, get me out of these walls, and in a few days' time,
43:08
I will have 5,000 men to overthrow this freak.
43:11
Yes. That's what he tells Gracchus.
43:15
And then I will kill Commandus and I will leave Rome. So now Proximo is involved.
43:22
This guy's cool too because you kind of didn't like him at first but then he's
43:26
like turning he's like you know what I used to be like you bud I'm going to help you out.
43:30
Well I like the reveal that Proximo actually killed a guy that set him free,
43:37
which is quite a dark way to you know quite a dark backstory for him but he
43:42
does sort of redeem himself by the end.
43:45
Yeah, exactly. When he gets a bunch of swords stuck at him. Yeah, shadows and dust.
43:54
Yeah, so what happens to Grakis, though? Does he get somebody snitches?
44:01
Somebody snitches. I know he survives. He's in the sequel. Exactly.
44:06
Harley in the sequel, by the way. Don't forget to that, but I'm confused here.
44:12
Proximo, he approaches Proximo I got your back Blah, blah, blah Grakus is like, I'm all good,
44:20
Lucille is like, yep, I'm in Alright, so we got And Cesario is going to Save
44:26
the day Yeah Oh, get the troops So we think, alright,
44:33
And so It was It's Commodus works it out,
44:38
No, no you know because grok
44:41
is lucius no because the
44:45
little shit lucius yes he goes
44:49
where'd you oh where'd you learn a line like that son he said some kind of cool
44:52
line or something yeah and he goes where'd you learn that line and he whispers
44:55
it into into commands his ear yeah and that triggers but what's he say to him
45:03
in his ear well he basically um confirms that his sister,
45:09
you know, Commodus' sister, has been basically passing messages to and from Maximus.
45:16
She's been seeing Maximus.
45:18
So Lucius knows this when he was a kid. But he put his food on it. He's just a dumb kid.
45:23
He doesn't do it on purpose. Oh, I know. I know that. I know that.
45:27
Okay. And that's where Commodus finds out about the massive betrayal.
45:31
Yes. Here comes the asps, the scene with the asps.
45:34
And then you have of the assassins coming in. Proximo pretty much sacrifices himself. Yep. Yep.
45:41
Shadows and dust, he says. Yeah. And then we see Cicero. Cicero is hung.
45:48
Yeah. And then Hagen gets a bunch of arrows put in him.
45:51
Again, the reason I'm bringing up these little things exactly happens in the second one. Oh, no.
45:59
It's pretty much Mary Abbott's film. Yeah. And we'll see if it's incompetent whatsoever.
46:06
But here the coup, the uprising, it's basically stopped.
46:11
It's put an end to it. And Commodus puts an end to it.
46:14
Well, but, and then that's whenever, you know, he basically decides to put himself
46:19
into the arena with Maximus, but cheats by wounding Maximus before getting in.
46:25
Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. He's a fucking coward. Yeah, exactly.
46:28
And yeah. And Clintus knows this now. And this is where, that's where he fucks up.
46:35
This is where he fucks up. Every villain fucks up somehow.
46:40
Yeah. And, you right there
46:42
you're freedom you already you're your go-to military
46:46
man you already made him assassinate a couple of his best men for no reason
46:50
and now you do this he's like nah this is where this is where it ends and it
46:56
comes together nicely because technically he was fucked maximus oh god there's
47:01
a line where lucius says to not lucius he says to his sister commandus when he
47:06
Turns out all these people are being killed and assassinated for betraying him.
47:10
He goes, I forgive you, sister, but I take your son, Lucius. Yeah.
47:15
And then you're also going to give me another true heir. So he wants to sleep
47:19
with her. Yeah, exactly.
47:21
And that's where you're like, yeah. And then.
47:26
But yeah, the Romans were known for their incest and all sorts.
47:29
I would not come back into that. Okay. I know that's your favorite topic.
47:32
You brought it up. I'm going back to it. You fucking brought it up. I moved on.
47:36
I moved on. I made a joke at your expense. You've moved on from your incest.
47:45
She was such children. I know. How the fuck have we made it this far in life?
47:50
Yeah. Just about. Script through. Jesus.
47:53
Yeah. Yeah, but when he, I remember seeing that in the cinema,
47:56
when he stabs him, I'm like, you fucking asshole. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
48:01
And he puts the armor. But I love the fact where he's got no weapon because
48:05
obviously Maximus is kicking his ass. He's got no weapon.
48:08
And he tells Quinzus, give me a sword. Give me, give me a sword.
48:11
And he tells his men, do seize your swords.
48:14
Do not give your swords to him. Yeah.
48:16
Meaning he's going to go down. Mm-hmm.
48:20
And then he goes down. And I like what he says to Quincy.
48:24
There's full circle. I talk about the arc between him and these two. They do that.
48:28
When he says, free the men.
48:31
Yeah. That's all I'm asking you to do is to free the men. The slaves.
48:35
And then you see his little happy place with his wife and son.
48:40
And he dies. The afterlife.
48:41
Yeah. He dies happy. The cornfield with his hand breezing through it.
48:46
Yeah. You know, and I know this, I'm making this sound more,
48:49
but he's talking about getting to his wife and kid, and I love them.
48:52
They're my, they're my everything. Yeah. You had a kid of this woman.
48:58
What's going on here, Maximus? It was ancient Rome, man. You know what I mean? Oh, God.
49:04
It's 200 AD, man. Exactly. That's how they're old.
49:11
Yeah. This one, this one's a classic. Oh, yeah. You can't touch Gladiator.
49:15
It's definitely really Scott's top five, I'd say.
49:20
Yeah, although it would definitely be up there. I think it's a great callback
49:24
to those epics of the 50s and 60s and stuff.
49:29
If I had any sort of minor criticisms, it can be a touch melodramatic and theatrical.
49:36
But if you're going to do an ancient Roman epic, it sort of has to be.
49:41
So it's sort of a good point. You even said that. Yeah. You even said that yourself.
49:46
It's Shakespearean. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah,
49:50
no, thoroughly entertaining and ticks pretty much all the boxes and all the departments.
49:55
Yeah, it is a good one. Yeah. It's a good one, guys. But we're talking about
49:59
this one now and we're about to move to the second one.
50:02
Uh, I had to watch it.
50:05
I've watched it three times and I finally had my verdict and it was a tough one.
50:12
To be honest with you because I was kind of like God this is so fucking entertaining
50:16
but it's batshit crazy yes,
50:19
but I'll tell you my thoughts so chime in for part 2 we're releasing it pretty
50:26
quickly after this one so yeah give us a shout there guys at citizen frame underscore
50:31
podcast and Instagram and of course Facebook and,
50:35
yeah we'll see you next.
50:36
Music.