Latest / My Brother's Journey / Don't Throw the Baby Out with the Bathwater: Faith, Doubt, and Finding Your Path

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Don't Throw the Baby Out with the Bathwater: Faith, Doubt, and Finding Your Path · My Brother's Journey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, so welcome back again to my brother's journey.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm half of the tag team.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Greg Joseph Chuck.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: And with me is Baron Fink.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Baron, great to see you again.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: See you too.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Baron, I'm so excited.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh for a couple reasons.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, beautiful day today here in Statesville, North Carolina.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have another mystery guest that we uh you that you recruited.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's yeah, and to be fair, he's he's not so much a mystery.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's been my my brother for 40 plus years.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: So uh all right.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh Mr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Guest, we're we're we love we love having you here.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Would you be so kind as to leading us in a prayer?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure, I would.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, thank you for this beautiful day that you've blessed us with.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, please be with all of my family and all of these gentle fine gentlemen's families, and uh bring us peace, and uh we thank you for all the blessings that you have uh bestowed upon us.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like I said, I'm excited.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know him far longer than I do.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've gotten to know him a little bit through through Bible study.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Mystery guest, please introduce yourself.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: My name is My name is Tom.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I uh uh I'm a recent uh addition to the Statesville area.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh I uh moved here not too long ago and uh have uh enjoyed my time here.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lovely, it's a lovely location.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh well it's great to have you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for for for uh being part of this today.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Barron, you say you've known him for quite a bit, so let's give a little bit of the background.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: How do you know Tom and and uh then we'll ask Tom about his uh journey?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so besides being my spiritual brother, I you know Tom is uh I married his little sister uh 39 years ago.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I've known Tom at least that long, if not longer.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you two are still on speaking terms.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Good part.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, I've kind of I've actually uh I certainly from my standpoint I've dropped the brother-in-law part and just said he's my brother because I I I feel uh very much like that, and uh uh we've grown to know each other quite well.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I know I know you, but uh Tom, tell us a little bit about uh you know how you ended up here.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: How did I end up here?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and if you don't mind me, let me just start by asking this one question, Tom.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh because we usually ask this of every of every uh brother that uh sits in front of us.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh are you uh were you born uh and and baptized Catholic, or are you a convert?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or or just give us a little sense of maybe that early, the early part.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um the early part.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I was born and baptized Catholic, uh raised Catholic for quite some time.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was very active in the church, and I took Columbus uh usher, uh baptismal instructor for our parish.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was very, very active in the church for many, many years, uh till about the year of uh my age of 40.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and and due to circumstances, I started to drift away and really question, you know, my faith.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, I've been on an interesting journey trying to figure out, you know, what's what is my faith and and and how strong is it.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I believe my faith is fairly strong, but it is different than the typical Catholic upbringing and and so on, uh, once I hit 40.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now well into my 60s, and uh, and it's been really, really interesting.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I currently participate in a uh Bible study group that's uh hosted, it's a really a Catholic Bible study group.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I find it very interesting and educational and rewarding, and so I continue to go.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of at times the odd man out, and and and that's okay.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay, I'm okay with that.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's been interesting and and the the journey is still ongoing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm still I consider myself a failed follower of Jesus and and and I'm trying to fail less.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's kind of where I'm at.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good way of putting it, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And again, Tom and I have had many discussions about this, and um, and I think it's uh it's what what Tom's experienced, and I I I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I mean I I think we've had very candid discussions about it, and and it's not unusual.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know, uh some of what we run into is, you know, you talk one of our questions, Greg, and you just mentioned is about how were you raised, you know.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would equate this a kind of analogy I was I was using because I was at last weekend I was at a uh neighborhood party and it was a football party and we were watching football.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and everybody's got their favorite team, yeah, you know, for whatever reason.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: It could be because they they grew up with that team or their family or some ala mama, a la mama martyr or whatever.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: They have their favorite team and they think their team's the best.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you know, that's all fine.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in a way, if you think about that, it and and you kind of use that same analogy, but you think of the teams being you know denominations, you know, in a Christian phase.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but the game is football, and that's the that's the root of it, that's Christianity.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you can say that my team practices Christianity, better on your team or whatever, and that's you know, that's decide every week, and some sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the the problem is if you are part of a team and you get disillusioned, what happens?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know, and and you know, do you get so disillusioned because of you don't feel as part of that team anymore, or you know, you're just part of that family?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you start to not even like football?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or you drift away from the game because you're so disillusioned with the team?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you do?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so Tom and I were talking about this, and and and Tom was listening to a podcast from a guy out of Atlanta, and um and he and the the the purpose of the podcast was to basically to say you need to step back, if that's where you are, step back to the fundamentals of the game, if you will, or in this case, Christianity.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that we profess to believe in that is foundational and fundamental to our faith?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and Tom, I'll let you you've kind of kind of recapped that kind of that podcast.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was very uh enlightening.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's a person that I've followed for many, many years now.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I I found it uh aligning with where I've started to gravitate toward, and that is what is fundamental and what is tertiary, what is tertiary?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so when when tertiary things in a faith or religion uh start becoming fundamental, it can it can chase people away from Christianity.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that started to happen with me a bit, and and hence why I I broke away uh from the Catholic faith.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and so, but I I don't ever believe that I ever walked away from my faith.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just I changed teams, if you will.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I and and I'll be honest with you, um since my break, I have really educated myself and discovered more about Jesus that I I never really knew.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've poured myself into the Bible, especially the New Testament, and it's been very enlightening.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel my faith has gotten stronger since I broke away.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it this is just a personal journey.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not advocating this for anybody else or anything.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is just where I've ended up.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh uh I I can't say that it's right for you or you.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can just say, so far for me, I feel stronger in my faith now than I've ever been.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm still I'm still learning, I'm still educating myself and and still growing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you say, Tom, that you feel stronger than you've ever been in your faith, do you do you mean do you mean when you say that that you feel closer, that you have a closer relationship to Jesus now than maybe before?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is it I don't want to put words in your mouth.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, all right.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I'll be very clear.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was an altar boy, I was all these things when I was being raised.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it I I I guess I was going through the motions before.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I, you know, there's all types of terms, you know, there's you've heard about C and E Catholics and things like that, right?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's C and E, you know, Protestants too, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's but I feel much closer now to Jesus than I ever had before.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think uh either I'm crazy or he's speaking to me, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: One one or the other.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: The Holy Spirit is is I I I hope is within me.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's a new feeling for me versus when I was, you know, from the age of zero to 40.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I feel I do feel much closer now, and I'm thankful for that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and part of that is the journey that I've been on, um, and m my wife's uh faith and her religion and and and her strength in in God and in Jesus.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's brought me closer.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'm very thankful for that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this is kind of uh uh interesting actually, this group today, the three of us, because uh here we have a Tom that was uh baptized Catholic and as you said, switch teams, and you're now Protestant.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Baron, you were raised Protestant, and switched teams became Catholic, and then I'm uh I'm a flawed Catholic from cradle to and I'll be flawed all the way to the grave, I'm sure.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: But um, so uh so it's good to I really enjoy like the different perspectives here.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, certainly hearing your perspective, Tom, that um and we've heard this so many times that with so many other brothers, and and I would put myself in that same category, that I would say the majority of my youth and early adult life, and maybe even you know, my middle adult life into probably into my 40s, maybe even my 50s, I felt like I was just going through the motions and checking boxes primarily.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: There were times where maybe I was a little bit more active in my faith, and I don't know why.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: It just it waned.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then I, you know, I felt like, oh yeah, I'm just going back to checking boxes again.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um but now for me personally, I you know, I'm I'm I'm trying to I'm I'm searching, I'm I'm trying to really understand the richness of of the Catholic faith.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because there's so much I didn't understand and that I still don't understand.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm really looking forward to doing uh the Hallow uh Catechism in a year because I've never cracked that book open, so I'm not even sure what's in there, um, which is ironic that we're doing a podcast.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I I lean on you, by the way, heavily for this.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's not gonna be too much.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but but you know, the thing about a podcast, obviously, is that we're trying to um um speak to real life and and to people that are out there maybe in a similar situation as you, Tom, a similar situation as I've been through or that you've been through.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're exactly right.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think the most important thing, first and foremost, is to find Jesus.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's to find Jesus and be able to, you know, have that relationship, to be able to talk to Jesus, to be able to listen to Jesus and hear his voice.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's first and foremost.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care, as you would say, I don't care what team you're on.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Having that relationship with Jesus is certainly the most important part of Christianity.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um then it's all about kind of how do we get there and and and and and grow that faith and grow that love and that uh right and that uh desire to be with Christ, and that can be through all kinds of different ways.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think it's exclusive for Catholics, that's for sure.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but Tom, uh tell us so now you're like you said, you in 40s and now you're in your 60s.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, we're in our 60s too, so um and we're all on the same journey.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you're my understanding is that you feel that you're getting closer and that your journey is getting richer with maybe each passing week.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, correct.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It it is.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's a function of of a few things.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: One, I have to give credit to my brother of uh pulling me into the uh Catholic Bible study.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have found that to be uh uh a way to stay engaged and stay engaged and and and really focus on the New Testament so far, is where we've been.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's been very interesting, and I really do appreciate the different points of view that you get.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I would encourage others uh who are possibly struggling in their faith to find a place where they can be with others and and like-minded uh and and on a journey and spend time in the Bible and and really uh hearing other people's viewpoints and so on.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's been very, very educational for me and enlightening.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'll be honest with you, at times I may disagree with some of the other viewpoints, and that's okay.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's perfectly okay to go do that.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you I I come away, but I I always come away grateful that I'm participating.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, so uh it's it's partly that, and a lot of um reflection and and prayer, and really taking some quiet time.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, earlier in my life, raising children, raising a family, uh working uh uh as much as I did, it, you know, you're always so busy, and and you're not always listening to what God is trying to get to your heart with.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've spent more time now trying to create some quiet times so that I can actually hear.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes I get it, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I don't, but that's uh I mean I'm human, and so I'm just navigating through this myself.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been an interesting journey.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I've I feel much closer uh to God and to uh I I I feel much closer now than I ever have before.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any kind of like special routine?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, do you do you s you know I some people have like they get up every morning and they they set aside the first, I don't know, whatever it is 15 minutes, half hour, hour in in prayer, and they kind of have their own little area, their own little room or whatever.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, do you have any special routine like that?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So so the answer is is really no.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I I respect people who can do that and do that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I find myself creating quiet times throughout the day, and this is the this is what works for me.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very random, but it's very often that you know things will touch my heart and and I can I can feel that that hey, you know, this is something where I need to pray about or think about.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So excuse me, it is not something that I set aside, you know, a half hour or 15 minutes every morning and and do a rosary or anything.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's nothing like that.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's I find myself um contemplating uh uh my faith throughout the day.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it can happen, you know, early in the morning or late at night.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it is usually uh almost primarily during quiet times that I can create for myself.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I tend to do that uh throughout the day, whether I'm you know driving, uh, which I probably probably should be spending more time on focused on the road, but my mind can wander and and I open my heart and my mind up to listening.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it can happen throughout the day.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for me that works.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that's the right way uh if for other people if they want to set aside time, and that's great.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I find it it's it's you know 24 hours in the day, and I it can happen at any time.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: I can I I can definitely relate to that because I I it's so funny when you start talking about driving.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to I tend to pray when I drive.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not just because I I mean I I'm a pretty decent driver, so uh, but you know, I like you, I think my mind wanders, and it actually helps me when I start praying because I'm like, man, I've got this nice quiet time right now.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it which is obviously very different when you're raising children.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's no such thing really as quiet time when you've got kids in the backseat, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, nice quiet time, it's a beautiful day, and you know, all of a sudden I start thinking about people that maybe I haven't prayed for in a while, and I'm like, oh yeah, that's great.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I should start praying for them.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but I'm also, interestingly enough, I'm also trying to get into um a little bit of a routine.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I I've joined a rosary uh group that prays every morning at 7 a.m.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: uh virtually on Zoom.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a group that they're out of Pittsburgh, actually.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh our brother Joe brought me into this.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, they've been around for quite a while.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but it seems like a very long time they've known each other.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um and so um so I'm I'm a little I'm trying a little bit of both.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to get this this habit of maybe in the morning, you know, get get a little focused to start my day off right, be with the blessed mother and and ask for her intercessions, and then um, and then really throughout the day, like you, at different times, it it might be random.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly not just on the golf course when I really need to pray, because usually my my anger's gonna get the the you know, that old devil and angel on the two shoulders, yeah, right?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm always trying to encourage the angel to talk a little bit more than the devil.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: But if you ever saw my golf game, you'd know why that's the challenge.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: But uh anyway, um, but I want to ask you, Baron, do you do you what what's kind of what do you have a routine or not?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or I mean I I there's certain times of the week.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we I I go to mass practically every day anyway.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but but usually after mass, you know, my wife and I we'll take 30 minutes after mass and and just be in a quiet church, hopefully quiet.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's a that's that's you know, that's kind of an intentional time, but I I share a lot of what Tom says.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: There'll be times throughout the day where I'll just kind of tune out uh the world, if you will, as far as just you know, cut off the earbuds, whatever else, and just contemplate things.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just just think about you know, what am I doing with my life?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: What what does God want me to do in a certain situation, in a more broader situation, or whatever?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's just kind of a you know, it's it can be loud, but it can still be quiet, at least in my mind.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh and that happens very unscripted.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and but I try to pay attention to that and allow for that because that's where you know hear it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then act upon it, you know, and and I would say, you know, to our hundreds of thousands of listeners here today, kind of the takeaway to me is, you know, um you know, our our pastor said this in our last Bible study.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: He says, you know, he says, uh uh he said, you could pray a thousand prayers.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: He says, but that is not nearly as effective or or important in God's mind as bringing somebody to Christ.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Bring somebody to faith.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter what team, doesn't matter whatever it is, bringing them to Christ.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, Tom, you mentioned it about just getting an invitation to come to our study, which I'm just I'm glad you said yes, and I'm glad that it's been you know effective.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: But to all of everybody out there, you know, you can be that brother and and and and and encourage somebody to to to join a Bible study or to pursue uh getting onto a team that better resonates with them so that they grow in their faith.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the end, it's about the faith, it's about you know Jesus Christ and and and putting your conversation and and the payoff, man, as far as we talk about peace, that's where you find it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and so whatever you can do to encourage somebody to do that, or to find yourself taking a step out, do it.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to say, uh, Baron, that that when you first invited me to the Bible study, I was a little hesitant.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I am very thankful that my hesitancy was uh diminished and I actually came.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because as I've already spoken, uh it's been very rewarding.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so in a way, you've brought me closer, brother, to Jesus, and I appreciate that.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing, let me just say this is you have enriched our Bible study, and I mean that in all honesty, Tom.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: You have brought some really good, challenging questions uh that I think many of us have on our mind, but are maybe afraid to articulate it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're pretty bold about that, which I love.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I I think I'm kind of bold too in that way.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, there's there's three or four of us in the Bible study, I think, that you would you guys all know that are a little bit outspoken and in in in some of these more challenging areas of our lives.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I really love that you're willing to put yourself out there and and share that with the entire group.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so wow, I'm I'm looking at this.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna, I the time flies here, but this has been great.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: But Tom, I just want to ask one more question before we wrap up.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what kind of advice or encouragement can you give to someone that's on a very similar path as you right now that's maybe questioning their faith?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter if they're Protestant, Catholic, but just questioning their faith, and and maybe they've had some challenges that have taken the air out of their sails, so to speak.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I think one of the all right, so I think uh two things are important.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one is don't throw the baby out with a bathwater, do not leave Christianity because of how where you're getting fed doesn't seem to make sense anymore.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to just as as Baron talked earlier, go to a different team.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Go to find find someplace.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I I ran across a priest one day who told me, because I uh from my background, you you stayed with the parish and you didn't go to a different parish, right?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh I met a priest who says, no, no, no, don't do that.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: If if you can get fed at a different parish, go get fed at a different parish.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I took it to a bigger extreme.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I got fed from outside of the Catholic faith.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's number one.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number two is something you just talked about, about being bold or not being bold.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: To me, a faith, to have a really good faith, you have to be able to question it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have to be bold and ask the when things don't make sense, ask the questions, ponder it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because real faith, a real Christian faith, you have to be able to ask those really hard questions and be confident that you're on the right path.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh my my comment to to everybody is different, everybody has a story.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my mine is unique to me.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so find your path, don't give up.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: That would be my my final recommendation.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think those are words of wisdom.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Tom, I want to thank you for coming in today, Baron.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: I want to thank you for bringing your brother in law, your brother with you.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to the I don't know if it's thousands or hundreds or if it's a handful, right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: But uh thank you for tuning in and being part of my brother's journey.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, seek Jesus in all you do and be fishers of men.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: God bless you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Please join us again.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Viva Jesus.