Latest / The Director's Chair Network / Ali
Transcript
- 0:00Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh 00:30 --> 00:41 Hi everyone, welcome to the Director's Chair Network. 00:41 --> 00:47 This is the season where we're covering Michael Mann and I am your host throughout the Michael Mann season, Ryan. 00:48 --> 00:49 And I'm by myself today. 00:50 --> 00:59 The guest co-hosts that I had scheduled for today, unfortunately we're both at the same time unable to make it. 00:59 --> 01:05 Life happens. It's okay. I'm not really hurt. Kind of stings, you know, behind the curtain here a little bit. 01:05 --> 01:11 But the reality is I have to record today because I'm really strict about my scheduling in that. 01:11 --> 01:16 I like to get an episode every two weeks out of Michael Mann and then in between is another show from the network. 01:16 --> 01:22 So I like to, you know, keep the three fans that listen to this podcast, I like to keep the few of you very happy. 01:22 --> 01:23 Or I think you're happy if you're still listening. 01:24 --> 01:29 So I am going to fly solo today because at the very least you'll hear my thoughts on the film. 01:29 --> 01:33 You just won't hear my, who were supposed to be the scheduled co-hosts for this film. 01:33 --> 01:36 And maybe we'll do something with them at a different time. 01:36 --> 01:39 It is what it is. Life is more important than a silly hobby. 01:39 --> 01:43 Because at the end of the day, folks, I'm not curing cancer or doing anything. 01:43 --> 01:47 You know, I'm just talking movies and movie talk. 01:47 --> 01:48 All right. 01:48 --> 01:53 Ollie, let's go through it as we would if I had a co-host. 01:53 --> 01:57 I'll ask questions out loud to you, the listener, that me, Ryan, will answer. 01:57 --> 02:00 So Ollie came out in 2001. It's crazy. 02:01 --> 02:03 Ollie seems like a newish film. 02:03 --> 02:08 Like it was just, I would say just released, but it doesn't seem like this movie came out 24 years ago. 02:08 --> 02:13 I guess as we get older and as I get older, everything just seems to be further, further back. 02:14 --> 02:17 But anything after 2000 still seems new to me or newish to me. 02:18 --> 02:23 But yeah, this came out or was released in theaters December 25th, 2001. 02:23 --> 02:28 So shortly after 9-11, which is kind of crazy to think this is just a few months after. 02:28 --> 02:31 I wonder if this affected the box office. 02:31 --> 02:38 So obviously this is a biographical telling, fictional mixed with real life or real life mixed with fictional. 02:38 --> 02:42 It's dramatic telling of Ollie and his life as a boxer. 02:43 --> 02:54 One of the biggest critiques I had about this film was I wish they showed the date more. 02:55 --> 02:57 When they went scene to scene or event to event. 02:58 --> 02:59 Well, number one, the movie is fairly long. 03:00 --> 03:01 It's two hours and 40 minutes. 03:02 --> 03:09 Again, I watched this movie literally in four parts, 40 minutes each, which worked for me. 03:09 --> 03:13 It was a nice miniseries feel to it. 03:13 --> 03:14 It was very easy to do. 03:14 --> 03:19 Around the 40-minute mark, it was a natural scene where you could just end or pause the film. 03:19 --> 03:21 And I went about my day. 03:21 --> 03:23 And then the next day, I did part two. 03:23 --> 03:24 So I did four parts in four days. 03:25 --> 03:27 So I binged the miniseries. 03:28 --> 03:30 We're so used to streaming now, maybe. 03:30 --> 03:34 But I find that I've been doing that with films, especially as I'm covering Michael Mann films. 03:34 --> 03:35 They're not short films. 03:35 --> 03:36 These aren't 80-minute films. 03:36 --> 03:42 In fact, my sons and I, we started Happy Gilmore yesterday, part two. 03:43 --> 03:45 And I saw that it was two hours long. 03:46 --> 03:47 And I'm like, geez, two hours long. 03:47 --> 03:49 We started about 9, 9.30 on the TV. 03:50 --> 03:52 And I said to my boys, let's just see how we feel. 03:52 --> 03:55 So we watched all but the last 40 minutes. 03:55 --> 03:55 So we paused it. 03:55 --> 03:56 We're going to finish it today. 03:57 --> 04:01 And I think even kids or people now are okay pausing films. 04:01 --> 04:04 I don't think it takes away from the film. 04:04 --> 04:08 I know there might be a whole other discussion for people where they're like, how dare you? 04:08 --> 04:09 How dare you pause the film? 04:09 --> 04:11 It must be experienced in this way. 04:12 --> 04:13 And I get that. 04:13 --> 04:17 But that's like saying you've never paused the film to get something out of the fridge or pause the film to go to the bathroom. 04:17 --> 04:22 So whether you pause it for one minute or one day, I guess that's up to you. 04:22 --> 04:22 I don't know. 04:22 --> 04:28 I find I don't lose anything emotionally or with whatever the film's about. 04:29 --> 04:30 I watched this in four parts. 04:30 --> 04:31 It is a two-hour and 40-minute movie. 04:31 --> 04:34 Again, it's a little bit longer than I even remembered. 04:35 --> 04:40 And did I see this in the theaters or on VHS slash DVD in 2001? 04:41 --> 04:43 I don't think I saw this in the theaters. 04:44 --> 04:46 I am a boxing fan. 04:46 --> 04:47 I mean, look behind me here. 04:47 --> 04:49 I have a Rocky poster on my wall. 04:49 --> 04:54 I do a podcast dedicated to the Rocky films called One More Round, the Rocky Series Podcast. 04:54 --> 04:55 So if you want to check that out, by all means. 04:56 --> 04:59 So I've always enjoyed sports films, boxing films. 04:59 --> 05:01 I even enjoy sports films of sports I don't watch or play. 05:02 --> 05:05 Like I've watched football films, but I don't watch football. 05:05 --> 05:07 I watch baseball films, but I don't watch baseball. 05:07 --> 05:14 Because I just enjoy the human journey of competition, overcoming odds, that sort of thing. 05:14 --> 05:15 So it doesn't matter what the sport is. 05:16 --> 05:21 Obviously, being a Rocky fan, I'm a boxing fan adjacent, even though I don't watch boxing. 05:21 --> 05:27 But I find boxing just, again, a fascinating sport of overcoming physical trials and training and all that stuff. 05:27 --> 05:28 It's a very fascinating experience. 05:29 --> 05:31 And Muhammad Ali, of course, is Muhammad Ali. 05:31 --> 05:33 Everyone knows Muhammad Ali. 05:34 --> 05:39 And I suspect in 2001, I was 26, that I saw the film. 05:40 --> 05:44 Like The Insider, if I saw the film back then, I haven't seen it since. 05:45 --> 05:47 And that could be a couple of reasons. 05:47 --> 05:48 Time just goes on. 05:48 --> 05:51 You just can't watch every movie you've ever seen multiple times. 05:51 --> 05:52 It doesn't make sense. 05:53 --> 05:58 So just because you haven't seen a movie once, twice, or three times even, doesn't mean you didn't like the film. 05:58 --> 06:00 But there's only so much time of the day. 06:00 --> 06:03 There's a lot of films I've enjoyed throughout my life that I've just never seen again. 06:03 --> 06:04 You experience the film. 06:05 --> 06:06 You move on. 06:07 --> 06:09 I think Ali is just one of those films where I know I saw it. 06:10 --> 06:12 But again, I don't remember anything from it. 06:12 --> 06:19 So when I watched this again this week in preparation for the podcast, I felt like I was watching things for the first time. 06:19 --> 06:20 Again, I'm older. 06:20 --> 06:21 I'm now nearing 50. 06:22 --> 06:28 So my movie experience or even just how I view films, the patience I have for certain things is different than when I was 26. 06:28 --> 06:36 Ali was Michael Mann's seventh film between 1981 and now 2001. 06:36 --> 06:37 So 20 years. 06:37 --> 06:42 So Michael Mann doesn't pound out films every year, once, every two years. 06:42 --> 06:46 Almost once, every three years, he averages a film, which almost tracks. 06:46 --> 06:50 But his next film was Collateral, which came out in 2004. 06:51 --> 06:52 And then Miami Vice in 2006. 06:52 --> 06:55 And then Public Enemies in 2009. 06:55 --> 06:59 And then six-year break between that and Black Hat in 2015. 06:59 --> 07:03 So what I like about Michael Mann, and it makes sense, I don't think he just does films willy-nilly. 07:04 --> 07:07 He seems to really invest all of his heart, soul, and everything into the film. 07:08 --> 07:13 Now, one could argue it shows on the screen, or people might argue it doesn't show on the screen. 07:14 --> 07:16 This is his seventh film. 07:16 --> 07:19 And again, great, great film. 07:21 --> 07:25 Well, let's start with the overall plot for those who maybe haven't seen this film. 07:25 --> 07:30 Like I always say with all the film reviews that I do, I will be talking about spoilers. 07:31 --> 07:33 Again, this is another true story. 07:33 --> 07:34 The Insider was a true story. 07:35 --> 07:37 So I spoke of spoilers. 07:37 --> 07:39 But it's hard to spoil a true story. 07:40 --> 07:44 There will be spoilers here as we talk about the movie and what it covers. 07:44 --> 07:49 This is the overall plot on Ali the film. 07:50 --> 07:57 So the film covers Cassius Clay, which as most of you should know, Cassius Clay was actually Muhammad Ali's birth name. 07:57 --> 08:02 And that's covered in the film with his dad about him changing his name and what that was like. 08:03 --> 08:05 The dad was played by, I can't say his name very well. 08:05 --> 08:06 I do apologize. 08:08 --> 08:09 Giancarlo Esposito. 08:11 --> 08:12 Everyone should know who he is. 08:12 --> 08:13 It's funny. 08:13 --> 08:15 When I saw him in the film, he looked familiar. 08:15 --> 08:17 Granted, this is 24 years ago. 08:17 --> 08:19 I was like, why does he look so familiar? 08:19 --> 08:20 But he just looked different. 08:20 --> 08:21 He looked, I guess, a little thinner. 08:22 --> 08:24 I mean, we all, I guess, put on weight in the last 24 years. 08:25 --> 08:25 Maybe some of us. 08:25 --> 08:26 Maybe some of us haven't. 08:27 --> 08:28 But he looked a little thinner. 08:28 --> 08:29 Of course, younger, the actor. 08:30 --> 08:31 And I was like, that's who I think is. 08:31 --> 08:33 Yeah, he, of course, was on Breaking Bad. 08:33 --> 08:39 He was the main bad guy in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, where he played the chicken restaurant owner. 08:39 --> 08:39 Okay. 08:40 --> 08:41 Anyways, incredible actor. 08:41 --> 08:42 Great actor. 08:42 --> 08:44 Not a very big role in this film, mind you. 08:44 --> 08:45 But he played Ali's father. 08:45 --> 08:51 And, of course, there's some really great scenes where the dad was upset with Ali for changing his name. 08:53 --> 08:53 What? 08:54 --> 08:54 That's right. 08:55 --> 08:56 You what? 09:00 --> 09:01 What's wrong with our name? 09:02 --> 09:03 My name. 09:04 --> 09:05 We, we made you. 09:05 --> 09:07 Well, ain't nobody made me. 09:07 --> 09:09 No bow tie wearing Arab talking nigga gonna change that. 09:09 --> 09:11 Ain't nobody in that ring but me. 09:11 --> 09:12 I made me. 09:12 --> 09:13 You don't know who you are. 09:14 --> 09:15 I know who I ain't. 09:16 --> 09:17 I ain't drinking. 09:17 --> 09:18 I ain't going back on my wife. 09:18 --> 09:21 And for sure, I ain't praying to no blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus. 09:22 --> 09:26 Peyton, those blue eyed, blonde haired Jesus will put food in you. 09:26 --> 09:27 Steak and vegetables on the table. 09:27 --> 09:28 Clothes on your back. 09:28 --> 09:35 And speaking as a father, I have five sons and one daughter. 09:37 --> 09:39 Of course, they're free to do what they want when they're adults. 09:39 --> 09:40 Ali was an adult. 09:40 --> 09:41 Cassius Clay was an adult. 09:42 --> 09:42 He's allowed to change his name. 09:43 --> 09:44 He joined a religion that was important to him. 09:45 --> 09:45 He became a Muslim. 09:46 --> 09:47 This was important to Muhammad. 09:48 --> 09:50 So I don't begrudge anyone doing that. 09:50 --> 09:55 I wouldn't begrudge my kids if they wanted to join a religion and it happened that they changed their name because of it. 09:55 --> 09:56 But I get it. 09:56 --> 09:57 I am old school. 09:58 --> 09:58 Fine. 09:58 --> 10:01 Maybe I'm not 20, 25 like I'm supposed to be. 10:02 --> 10:03 But I admit, I'm old school. 10:03 --> 10:04 I take honor in my last name. 10:04 --> 10:07 And I love it that my sons love their last name. 10:07 --> 10:09 And when my two older boys, they got married. 10:09 --> 10:10 My daughter-in-laws. 10:11 --> 10:13 I admit, I was like, I wonder if they're going to take the last name. 10:13 --> 10:14 Because again, it's 2025. 10:15 --> 10:17 Or it was 2024 when they both got married last year. 10:18 --> 10:18 And they did. 10:18 --> 10:19 They both took the last name. 10:19 --> 10:20 It feels great. 10:20 --> 10:21 I thought it was fantastic. 10:21 --> 10:23 I mean, I would have been totally supportive if they hadn't. 10:23 --> 10:25 But I admit, there's a part of me that's like, ah, they took the name. 10:25 --> 10:26 I love it. 10:27 --> 10:34 So all that being said, Cassius Clay Sr., of course, was, he probably felt like he was losing his son a little bit. 10:35 --> 10:39 To him, he was proud of his son for being a boxer and for being a very good boxer. 10:39 --> 10:44 But the family part of it was like, you know, he felt like maybe he was losing the identity of the family name. 10:44 --> 10:46 It was portrayed very well, is all I'm trying to say. 10:46 --> 10:48 I understand the father's feelings. 10:48 --> 10:52 I don't think I would have acted, obviously, the way the father did in the film. 10:52 --> 10:53 Or in all these life. 10:54 --> 10:55 But I get the sentiment. 10:55 --> 10:58 I get why that would trigger some of the feel upset. 10:58 --> 10:59 All right. 10:59 --> 11:02 So what we see in the film is Cassius Clay's rise in the boxing world. 11:02 --> 11:11 So we see before his championship fight against Sonny Liston, Cassius Clay Jr., played by Will Smith, of course, taunts Liston and dominates early rounds. 11:12 --> 11:18 This was an interesting part of this film where Sonny Liston, of course, was played by a fellow named Michael Bershaw. 11:18 --> 11:21 And yeah, here's some trivia. 11:22 --> 11:24 A lot of the boxers weren't actors. 11:25 --> 11:31 Now, Sylvester Stallone, of course, did this in his films where he got real life boxers to play boxers in the film. 11:32 --> 11:33 Of course, Antonio Tarver. 11:34 --> 11:35 That was one of the big ones. 11:36 --> 11:37 Tommy Morrison for Rocky V. 11:38 --> 11:39 Antonio Tarver for Rocky Balboa. 11:40 --> 11:44 And it's pretty smart for directors like Michael Mann, especially when the. 11:45 --> 11:49 Within Ali, the film, these real life boxers had very little speaking parts. 11:50 --> 11:50 And that's the key. 11:51 --> 11:54 So I think we're Stallone sort of dropped the ball. 11:55 --> 11:59 Having real boxers act in his films. 11:59 --> 12:00 You could see that they're not actors. 12:00 --> 12:03 You could see that they were boxers. 12:03 --> 12:04 They're not trained actors. 12:04 --> 12:05 They're trained boxers. 12:06 --> 12:07 Michael Mann did the complete opposite. 12:08 --> 12:11 He got real boxers to box Will Smith in the ring. 12:11 --> 12:12 And it looked real. 12:12 --> 12:15 You could tell they didn't have very many speaking parts, if any. 12:16 --> 12:20 But they filled the role of the real life boxers very well. 12:20 --> 12:22 So Will Smith playing Ali is fighting them in the ring. 12:22 --> 12:23 It just feels authentic. 12:23 --> 12:24 It feels real. 12:25 --> 12:27 The movie starts with the Sonny Liston fight. 12:27 --> 12:29 And Michael Bent plays Sonny Liston. 12:30 --> 12:32 Now, Michael Bent, he had a decent career. 12:33 --> 12:35 He got bronze in the Goodwill Games. 12:35 --> 12:37 He got bronze in the Pan American Games. 12:37 --> 12:39 He got bronze in the World Championships. 12:40 --> 12:41 And this was the early 80s, mid 80s. 12:41 --> 12:42 He got all the stuff. 12:42 --> 12:45 He got the gold medal in 85 in the North America Championships. 12:45 --> 12:47 So he was an amateur boxer representing the U.S. 12:48 --> 12:52 He has a boxing record of 13 fights, 11 wins, 6 knockouts, 2 losses. 12:52 --> 12:54 So, you know, he's a boxer. 12:54 --> 12:55 Good for him. 12:56 --> 12:56 He wasn't just in Ali. 12:57 --> 12:58 He was in other movies as well. 12:58 --> 13:00 He actually did some actual acting roles. 13:00 --> 13:03 He was in Hollywood Homicide, Collateral, Million Dollar Baby. 13:03 --> 13:04 Played a boxer there. 13:05 --> 13:07 Oh, he shows up again in Public Enemy. 13:08 --> 13:09 So there you go. 13:09 --> 13:11 And he actually has a part where he plays Herbert Youngblood. 13:11 --> 13:11 Youngblood. 13:12 --> 13:14 So we get to see him again in another Michael Mann film. 13:14 --> 13:14 Good for him. 13:15 --> 13:15 Yeah. 13:15 --> 13:18 What was really cool about this fight, I did see online. 13:18 --> 13:20 I did a little bit of research here. 13:20 --> 13:25 But in the movie, they showcase that Ali started experiencing a burning sensation in his eyes, 13:25 --> 13:27 implying that Liston was cheating. 13:28 --> 13:31 And he almost quit the match because in the film, Ali couldn't see. 13:31 --> 13:32 He was like, I can't see. 13:32 --> 13:35 I'm just going to go out there and get my face punched and I can't see. 13:35 --> 13:38 But the trainer, Angelo Dundee, urges him to continue. 13:38 --> 13:39 You're going to go out there and fight. 13:43 --> 13:52 The guy's punching under brace. 13:52 --> 13:53 Just take care of him, okay? 13:53 --> 13:54 We'll fight. 13:56 --> 13:58 I can't see nothing, man. 13:58 --> 13:59 Just go and cut him off, baby. 13:59 --> 13:59 Cut him off. 13:59 --> 14:01 You can't fight with no close eye. 14:02 --> 14:03 Just get him. 14:03 --> 14:05 I can't see, man. 14:07 --> 14:16 The trainer was played by Ron Silver. 14:17 --> 14:19 So Ron Silver is an interesting actor. 14:19 --> 14:22 He passed away in 2009 at the age of 62. 14:23 --> 14:27 When you look at his filmography, you're like, what do I really know him from? 14:27 --> 14:28 I almost know the name more than him. 14:28 --> 14:30 But he's just one of those faces that you've seen many times. 14:31 --> 14:34 I will speak to the movies that I've seen him in for sure. 14:35 --> 14:37 Time Cop was probably the biggest one that I saw him in. 14:38 --> 14:40 So 1994, Jean-Claude Van Damme's Time Cop. 14:41 --> 14:42 He played the bad guy. 14:42 --> 14:45 I admit that was probably the big film I remember him from. 14:46 --> 14:48 Because after that, I'm just looking at this filmography. 14:49 --> 14:52 Well, I did see The Arrival in 96 with Charlie Sheen. 14:52 --> 14:53 So he was in that. 14:53 --> 14:54 But I don't remember that. 14:54 --> 14:58 So really from 94 to 2001, I never saw him really in anything. 14:58 --> 14:59 But there he was in Ali. 14:59 --> 15:02 Then after Ali, films I have not seen him in. 15:02 --> 15:05 So he's just one of those guys where you kind of know who he is. 15:05 --> 15:11 But anyways, he played the trainer to Ali, Angelo Dundee. 15:12 --> 15:15 And Angelo Dundee, he passed away in 2012. 15:16 --> 15:18 Ironically, he lived longer than Ron Silver. 15:19 --> 15:20 That's weird, eh? 15:21 --> 15:23 Ron Silver is playing this guy. 15:23 --> 15:26 And this guy lives six years longer on the timeline. 15:26 --> 15:30 At the age of 90, he passed away in 2012. 15:31 --> 15:31 Wow. 15:31 --> 15:35 Can you imagine Angelo, you know, sees Ron Silver die before him? 15:35 --> 15:36 He's like, oof, that's kind of unfortunate. 15:37 --> 15:42 What I like, though, there was a great scene where Don King, we'll get to who played him later. 15:42 --> 15:48 But Don King said something kind of derogatory at Angelo at the end of the film. 15:48 --> 15:49 I ain't talking to you. 15:50 --> 15:50 Hey. 15:50 --> 15:51 Hey, man. 15:52 --> 15:55 Don't you never talk to Angelo like that. 15:55 --> 15:58 Don't you never hear me let you never talk to Angie like that again. 15:59 --> 16:00 Something wrong with you, man? 16:02 --> 16:04 Thank you calling some shots around here. 16:04 --> 16:05 You ain't calling nothing. 16:06 --> 16:11 And I love overall how Ali pretty much tells Don King to F off and go away. 16:11 --> 16:15 And I don't know the whole history here of the real life history. 16:15 --> 16:20 But within the film history, it appears that Ali was not a fan of Don King, which is great to see. 16:20 --> 16:28 So mid-fight, Cassius Clay, pre-Mohammed Ali conversion, he experiences like a burning sensation in his eyes. 16:28 --> 16:29 So did Sonny Lillett actually cheat? 16:30 --> 16:31 Did they put something on the gloves? 16:31 --> 16:32 They shortened the film. 16:32 --> 16:32 That's what happened. 16:33 --> 16:35 That's pretty crazy if that was the case. 16:35 --> 16:39 But his vision clears and Clay dominates the fight and Lillett quits. 16:39 --> 16:40 This is interesting, too. 16:40 --> 16:41 I didn't know this. 16:41 --> 16:42 Sonny Lillett is sitting in the corner. 16:43 --> 16:45 I think it was the sixth or seventh round. 16:45 --> 16:47 He's sitting at a stool and his training staff's around him. 16:47 --> 16:52 And there's a sequence where it shows the mouthpiece hitting the canvas of the ring. 16:53 --> 16:55 And Ali puts his arms in the ears and I've won. 16:55 --> 16:55 He's quit. 16:55 --> 17:00 I've just never seen that in film or my limited knowledge of boxing. 17:00 --> 17:03 I've never seen that done before where the boxer can just quit. 17:04 --> 17:06 And in the corner, he decided he didn't want to fight anymore. 17:07 --> 17:14 So Cassius Clay slash Muhammad Ali became the second youngest heavyweight champion. 17:14 --> 17:18 Another one, I guess it was younger, was Floyd Patterson. 17:18 --> 17:18 Okay. 17:19 --> 17:21 Muhammad Ali becomes a muzzle. 17:22 --> 17:24 So Cassius Clay befriends Malcolm X. 17:24 --> 17:25 That's right. 17:25 --> 17:31 And he's invited to the Nation of Islam leader Elijah Muhammad's home where he is renamed Muhammad Ali. 17:31 --> 17:34 Again, against his father, Cassius Senior's wishes. 17:35 --> 17:43 You know, only after long service and high merit and the spiritual and physical rebirth of Afro-American people, 17:44 --> 17:46 as one granted an original name. 17:47 --> 17:48 But you are special. 17:49 --> 17:51 A world champion. 17:53 --> 17:55 So there is a gift I wish to give you. 17:56 --> 18:01 From this day forward, you will be known as Muhammad Ali. 18:02 --> 18:09 So Malcolm X was played by the very good acting job in this film, Mario Van Peebles. 18:09 --> 18:10 You recognize him right away. 18:10 --> 18:12 Mario Van Peebles did a great job of Malcolm X. 18:12 --> 18:18 When I heard about those four little girls and got bombed at that Birmingham church, 18:19 --> 18:26 the prohibitions of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad prevented me from speaking my thoughts in action. 18:28 --> 18:31 Because Birmingham was part of the civil rights struggle, you know, 18:32 --> 18:34 begging for a place at the white man's table. 18:35 --> 18:37 But dead children are dead children. 18:38 --> 18:42 So the anger I felt I had to contain, 18:43 --> 18:46 I locked it up so tight, 18:46 --> 18:49 my muscles seized. 18:51 --> 18:53 I lost control over the right side of my body. 18:54 --> 18:54 My leg gave out. 18:56 --> 18:57 Right arm gave out. 18:57 --> 18:58 I'm having a stroke, I thought. 19:00 --> 19:02 But I had to hold it in because all I wanted, 19:04 --> 19:06 brother, all I wanted to do was find something and 19:06 --> 19:07 break it. 19:07 --> 19:09 break apart, 19:09 --> 19:10 break any part of this 19:10 --> 19:12 system because you are so 19:12 --> 19:15 provoked in your heart 19:15 --> 19:17 and your spirit as a human being. 19:20 --> 19:21 Had dead children. 19:23 --> 19:24 And I could do 19:24 --> 19:28 nothing. 19:30 --> 19:34 And I knew before seeing this film that Malcolm X was assassinated. 19:34 --> 19:35 They did a great job. 19:35 --> 19:36 I forgot when and where. 19:36 --> 19:38 So when he gets assassinated in the film, Ali, 19:39 --> 19:40 it threw me off. 19:40 --> 19:41 Oh, he gets, 19:41 --> 19:43 I guess this is a sort of a spoiler. 19:43 --> 19:43 I mean, 19:43 --> 19:44 we know he gets assassinated, 19:44 --> 19:45 but they showed it really well, 19:45 --> 19:46 but it came out of the blue. 19:46 --> 19:48 I didn't know it was that incident, 19:48 --> 19:48 that meeting. 19:49 --> 19:50 It was done quite well. 19:50 --> 19:52 It's very little violence in this film, 19:52 --> 19:52 other than, 19:52 --> 19:53 of course, 19:53 --> 19:54 the boxing violence, 19:54 --> 19:57 but there's two assassinations. 19:57 --> 20:00 And that's the thing about this film is when you're watching this, 20:00 --> 20:05 you recognize and realize just how much history is happening around Ali in his life. 20:05 --> 20:09 So here you have Ali himself being a boxer and being who he was and the things he went through. 20:10 --> 20:11 And then just around him, 20:11 --> 20:16 the chaos of society and the cultural wars and violence and assassinations. 20:17 --> 20:18 What a time, 20:18 --> 20:18 right? 20:19 --> 20:20 So he was assassinated. 20:20 --> 20:22 It looked like the film by gunshot. 20:23 --> 20:24 He was only age 39. 20:25 --> 20:27 Played by Mario Van Peebles. 20:27 --> 20:28 Did a great job. 20:29 --> 20:32 I did see the movie X starring Denzel Washington, 20:32 --> 20:33 of course, 20:33 --> 20:35 playing Malcolm in the theaters. 20:35 --> 20:39 I've always been a Denzel fan and I've always liked biographical films. 20:40 --> 20:41 That's a great film. 20:41 --> 20:45 We talked about covering Spike Lee for this podcast. 20:45 --> 20:47 That's probably a director we'll have to cover one day. 20:48 --> 20:48 I think it's only fair. 20:49 --> 20:49 All right. 20:49 --> 20:51 So Mario Van Peebles. 20:51 --> 20:51 Yeah, 20:51 --> 20:51 let's talk about him. 20:51 --> 20:52 Of course, 20:52 --> 20:54 we're talking about Mario Van playing Malcolm X. 20:55 --> 20:55 Another actor, 20:55 --> 20:56 kind of like Ron Silver. 20:57 --> 20:59 I know Mario a little bit more. 20:59 --> 21:00 He's 68 years old, 21:01 --> 21:02 still with us. 21:02 --> 21:03 But when I look at his filmography, 21:03 --> 21:04 I'm trying to think, 21:04 --> 21:05 what have I really seen him? 21:05 --> 21:05 Again, 21:05 --> 21:07 he's a name that you just know. 21:08 --> 21:09 And I'm looking at his filmography. 21:09 --> 21:10 I'm trying to think, 21:10 --> 21:10 when did I first? 21:10 --> 21:11 Okay, 21:11 --> 21:12 probably New Jack City. 21:12 --> 21:14 I saw that when I was a teenager in 91. 21:14 --> 21:15 So I love that film. 21:15 --> 21:18 I did see the movie Posse because I like Westerns. 21:18 --> 21:18 Yeah. 21:18 --> 21:18 Then Ali. 21:19 --> 21:20 I didn't really know him all that well. 21:20 --> 21:21 It's funny. 21:21 --> 21:21 That's just it. 21:22 --> 21:23 That's all I would have seen before Ali came out. 21:24 --> 21:25 Then after Ali, 21:26 --> 21:27 he's done lots of films. 21:27 --> 21:28 He's always working. 21:29 --> 21:33 I just don't watch him necessarily in anything. 21:33 --> 21:37 Like he's just one of many actors where you know the name, 21:37 --> 21:37 you know the face. 21:37 --> 21:39 And if he happens to be in the film he's in, 21:39 --> 21:40 that's great. 21:40 --> 21:44 But I would suspect him playing Malcolm X is probably one of his biggest roles 21:44 --> 21:45 and probably one of his best roles. 21:45 --> 21:46 So he did a really good job of that. 21:46 --> 21:47 So good job to Mario Van Peele. 21:48 --> 21:50 And shortly after this or during this time, 21:50 --> 21:53 Ali marries Sanji Roy, 21:53 --> 21:56 who's a non-Muslim ex-playboy bunny, 21:56 --> 21:59 played by none other than his actual wife, 22:00 --> 22:04 keep my wife's name out of your MF and mouth, 22:05 --> 22:06 Jada Pinkett Smith. 22:07 --> 22:08 She looked lovely in this film. 22:09 --> 22:10 She's an interesting person. 22:10 --> 22:11 Their marriage is interesting. 22:12 --> 22:19 Basically the story here is she wasn't crazy about having to dress down or, 22:20 --> 22:20 I mean, 22:20 --> 22:21 she was an ex-playboy bunny. 22:22 --> 22:24 I'm fine running around here and he's cute, 22:24 --> 22:25 short things for you. 22:25 --> 22:26 I am submissive to you. 22:27 --> 22:31 I ain't going to be submissive to them brother X's and Z's about what they 22:31 --> 22:31 think. 22:31 --> 22:32 Okay. 22:32 --> 22:34 And they ask me a bunch of questions all the time. 22:34 --> 22:34 Anyway, 22:34 --> 22:37 what questions about you and us? 22:37 --> 22:38 And I ain't telling them shit. 22:38 --> 22:38 Drink. 22:39 --> 22:39 I don't smoke. 22:39 --> 22:41 I converted to Islam for you. 22:41 --> 22:42 Okay. 22:42 --> 22:44 I'll accept the dress. 22:45 --> 22:48 She didn't like the idea of living a religious life. 22:48 --> 22:51 And she made that known to Ali and they got divorced. 22:51 --> 22:52 I don't think they had any kids together. 22:52 --> 22:54 She remarried herself. 22:54 --> 22:55 I think she got divorced again. 22:57 --> 23:00 Is she still with Will Smith? 23:00 --> 23:00 I mean, 23:00 --> 23:02 are they still officially a couple? 23:02 --> 23:08 Wikipedia says that Jada Pinkett Smith was separated in 2016 from Will. 23:08 --> 23:10 Their family situation is weird. 23:10 --> 23:13 It says here in 2023 of October. 23:13 --> 23:18 It says here in 2023 of October, Jada stated that she and Will had been separated since 2016, 23:18 --> 23:21 though they have no intention to divorce. 23:21 --> 23:26 So when Will slapped Chris Rock, yeah, she was still his wife. 23:26 --> 23:27 And they, yeah. 23:27 --> 23:28 When was that anyways? 23:28 --> 23:30 Boy, timeline is so weird. 23:30 --> 23:31 Was that even before 2023? 23:31 --> 23:37 Anyway, so they've been separated since 2016, which makes sense that they've had some, you know, sexual activity outside their marriage because they're separated. 23:37 --> 23:38 Okay. 23:38 --> 23:40 So Jada did a good job. 23:40 --> 23:43 She did a fine job playing first wife in the film. 23:43 --> 23:45 Smaller role than I anticipated. 23:45 --> 23:49 And again, Jada is another actress where kind of like Mario Van Peeble. 23:49 --> 23:50 I think she is a lovely lady. 23:51 --> 23:51 I think they're weird. 23:51 --> 23:52 Okay. 23:52 --> 23:54 I'm allowed to say a celebrity is weird. 23:54 --> 23:55 Am I allowed to say that? 23:55 --> 23:55 Is that wrong? 23:55 --> 23:56 I think they're odd. 23:57 --> 24:02 The movies I've seen her in before Ali would have been Scream 2. 24:03 --> 24:04 Menace to Society. 24:05 --> 24:06 And then Ali. 24:06 --> 24:12 And then right after Ali, she was in the two Matrix sequels playing Niobe, which she was fine in that as well. 24:12 --> 24:16 Again, she's just another actress where if she's in something I'm watching, cool. 24:17 --> 24:21 If she's not, I don't go see a film because Jada Pico Smith is in it. 24:21 --> 24:28 The last time I saw her on screen was when she didn't like that joke that Chris Rock said on the stage. 24:29 --> 24:31 So Ali now travels to Africa. 24:31 --> 24:34 There's a great sequence where Will Smith travels to Africa. 24:34 --> 24:35 He runs into Malcolm X. 24:35 --> 24:39 Shouldn't have quarreled with the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. 24:40 --> 24:40 What? 24:43 --> 24:45 Shouldn't have quarreled with Elijah Muhammad. 24:46 --> 24:47 Okay, brother Muhammad. 24:47 --> 24:48 Brother Muhammad. 24:48 --> 24:48 Look here. 24:53 --> 24:54 Brother Muhammad. 24:55 --> 24:55 But it's funny. 24:55 --> 25:03 Malcolm X and him kind of had a falling out because Ali was told by his leader, Elijah, to shun Malcolm X. 25:03 --> 25:04 I guess they had different ideologies. 25:05 --> 25:13 Even again, I'm not too up on what Malcolm X was, what he believed in religion wise versus what Ali believed in religion wise. 25:13 --> 25:13 Now as a Muslim. 25:13 --> 25:16 But he was told now you have to shun Malcolm X. 25:16 --> 25:20 However, Ali was devastated, of course, by the assassination of Malcolm X. 25:21 --> 25:24 There's a rematch in the film where Ali fights listen again. 25:25 --> 25:26 And he knocks him out in the first round. 25:27 --> 25:27 Knocks him out good. 25:28 --> 25:34 And he divorces Sanji or they get divorced shortly after because he gets mad at his wife saying, I saw what you were wearing in the crowd. 25:35 --> 25:36 You were wearing cleavage. 25:36 --> 25:37 I mean, I liked it. 25:37 --> 25:38 I enjoyed what Jada was wearing. 25:38 --> 25:40 But Ali did not enjoy it. 25:40 --> 25:41 Are you OK? 25:44 --> 25:45 What's wrong? 25:46 --> 25:48 Why are you all done up like that? 25:49 --> 25:50 I'm. 25:52 --> 25:54 I'm out there dying for you out of worry. 25:55 --> 25:55 Worry? 25:55 --> 25:56 Yes. 25:56 --> 25:58 And all you can think about is if I look dull enough. 25:59 --> 26:02 What if I straightened my hair and moved into some white suburb? 26:03 --> 26:04 How I am says something. 26:05 --> 26:07 And they just eventually got divorced. 26:07 --> 26:08 They did not see eye to eye. 26:09 --> 26:13 Now, the big controversy of Ali's life comes up shortly after. 26:13 --> 26:14 And this is really cool to watch. 26:14 --> 26:21 I thought this part was done very well in the movie, showing the reasons that Ali had for not wanting to fight. 26:21 --> 26:32 Mr. Clay, I'm required to inform you that refusal to accept a lawful induction order constitutes a felony under the Universal Military Training and Service Act. 26:33 --> 26:39 Punishable by five years imprisonment and a $10,000 fine. 26:39 --> 26:41 Do you understand? 26:41 --> 26:43 Yes, sir. 26:43 --> 26:47 Cassius Marcellus Clay. 26:47 --> 26:53 Cassius Marcellus Clay. 26:53 --> 27:06 Federal Bureau of Investigation. 27:07 --> 27:09 Mr. Clay, you're under arrest for refusing induction. 27:14 --> 27:15 It's tough. 27:15 --> 27:15 It's tough. 27:15 --> 27:19 Look, drafting is an interesting concept. 27:19 --> 27:25 Thank goodness, as far as I understand it right now, it's a bill or a right or something that can be enforced, but it's not right now. 27:26 --> 27:29 I know there are many countries throughout the world that have mandatory enlistment. 27:29 --> 27:31 You know, whatever it is, 18 to 21, you have to serve. 27:32 --> 27:32 And I'm in the military. 27:33 --> 27:34 So let me make this clear. 27:34 --> 27:34 I'm actually in the military. 27:34 --> 27:35 I'm in the Navy. 27:35 --> 27:38 So I'm not really a hardcore military guy, you know what I'm about. 27:38 --> 27:39 I'm in the Navy. 27:39 --> 27:41 I've been serving my country for 22 years now. 27:42 --> 27:48 I'm grateful for the opportunity to serve and I'm grateful for what it's done for my family, all that good stuff. 27:48 --> 27:49 But I understand it's not for everybody. 27:50 --> 27:55 So the idea of drafting people against their will, I'm torn on that, right? 27:55 --> 28:01 Even though I'm in the military, I don't know how I feel about pulling people off the street and making them serve. 28:01 --> 28:09 Because you wonder what kind of soldier or sailor or air forceman that would make somebody when you force them to do something. 28:09 --> 28:13 Nobody wants to be forced to do whatever they want, especially if it goes against their religious beliefs. 28:13 --> 28:17 So Ali refuses conscription for the Vietnam War. 28:17 --> 28:24 And because of this, he loses his boxing license, his passport and title, plus a five-year prison sentence. 28:24 --> 28:25 And this is where I was a little bit confused. 28:25 --> 28:29 He was sentenced to prison, but I don't remember him serving any time in prison within the film. 28:30 --> 28:33 This is where the film gets a little bit confusing about the timelines. 28:33 --> 28:39 I swear they showed a date at the beginning of the film, like I was 64 or something like that. 28:40 --> 28:48 And unless I'm Mandela affecting myself, I don't remember any other dates being populated throughout the film. 28:48 --> 28:48 Would it help? 28:48 --> 28:52 If they showed like 19-whatever, Ali's 21. 28:53 --> 28:54 Little things like that. 28:54 --> 28:56 Just now he's this age. 28:57 --> 28:59 Because time does pass, and years pass. 29:00 --> 29:04 Because the movie is only two hours and 40 minutes, and there's no indication of when time is. 29:04 --> 29:08 Unless you're totally like an Ali nerd, Muhammad Ali nerd, which people can be and are. 29:08 --> 29:09 They'll know exactly when Ali's. 29:09 --> 29:13 There's boxing nerds out there who know exactly when he fought Sonny Lissett, when he fought him the second time. 29:14 --> 29:17 But within the film, it just feels like, oh, he fought him twice within half an hour. 29:17 --> 29:18 I don't know how much time has passed. 29:18 --> 29:20 So I would appreciate more time codes. 29:20 --> 29:22 Or time stamps, I should say. 29:22 --> 29:23 But maybe it's just me. 29:23 --> 29:24 I'm not very smart. 29:24 --> 29:25 So who knows? 29:26 --> 29:33 One of the more controversial parts of Ali's life, too, was that he married a 17-year-old girl named Belinda Boyd. 29:35 --> 29:36 You don't remember me, do you? 29:40 --> 29:40 Yeah. 29:41 --> 29:42 I remember something. 29:43 --> 29:43 What's your name? 29:43 --> 29:45 You know my name. 29:46 --> 29:46 I know your name. 29:46 --> 29:49 You came to my school right before you won the title. 29:50 --> 29:51 I interviewed you for my school paper. 29:52 --> 29:53 I was 11. 29:56 --> 29:57 You had a long braid. 29:58 --> 29:59 Yeah. 30:00 --> 30:02 You called me Lil' Indian Girl. 30:03 --> 30:03 Wow. 30:04 --> 30:06 Man, that was you. 30:06 --> 30:06 That was me. 30:08 --> 30:10 And I loved you then, just like all them kids did. 30:11 --> 30:12 I never stopped. 30:12 --> 30:13 I still do. 30:17 --> 30:21 And the actress that played Belinda Boyd, she was gorgeous, a lovely woman. 30:22 --> 30:24 And don't worry, she wasn't 17 in the film. 30:25 --> 30:27 She was played by an actress named Nona Gage. 30:27 --> 30:28 She sort of looked familiar. 30:28 --> 30:30 But again, when I looked at her filmography, I don't recognize her. 30:31 --> 30:31 Yeah. 30:31 --> 30:32 She's 50 now. 30:32 --> 30:33 So she's my age. 30:33 --> 30:36 So yeah, in 2001, she would have been 26. 30:36 --> 30:37 So don't worry, guys. 30:37 --> 30:38 She was playing a younger girl. 30:38 --> 30:43 But she aged with Ali throughout the film because she was with her for a bit. 30:43 --> 30:44 I mean, she was in Crash. 30:44 --> 30:46 She played a character named Karen. 30:46 --> 30:48 And she was also in the Matrix films, funny enough. 30:48 --> 30:52 I wonder if she was like a Jada Pinkett Smith friend because she was in Ali. 30:52 --> 30:54 And then she joined Jada in the Matrix sequels. 30:54 --> 30:55 Interesting. 30:55 --> 30:57 I wonder if there is a connection there. 30:57 --> 30:58 But then she was in Crash. 30:58 --> 31:01 Then she did some voice work in the Polar Express. 31:01 --> 31:06 Then she was in State of the Union XXX, a film called The Gospel. 31:06 --> 31:12 And she hasn't been in a film since Blood and Bone, which looks like it might have been a boxing movie in 2009. 31:12 --> 31:14 It was the last role before retiring. 31:14 --> 31:16 So she did retire from acting. 31:17 --> 31:17 Interesting. 31:17 --> 31:18 All right. 31:18 --> 31:20 She did a great job playing Muhammad Ali's wife. 31:20 --> 31:25 It's just weird that her very high-profile job and she did a great job. 31:25 --> 31:28 You just don't really see her after that as an actress, really. 31:28 --> 31:28 Interesting. 31:28 --> 31:29 Yeah, that's fine. 31:30 --> 31:31 It's interesting how that works. 31:31 --> 31:31 Okay. 31:32 --> 31:37 So after a three-year boxing hiatus, Muhammad Ali's conviction is overturned in Clay versus the U.S. 31:37 --> 31:38 So he has a comeback. 31:38 --> 31:43 So he returns to boxing and he defeats a guy named Jerry Quarry. 31:44 --> 31:50 The individual who plays Jerry Quarry in the film was a fellow named Robert Sale. 31:51 --> 31:53 And I don't know who this guy is. 31:54 --> 31:55 I don't think he's an actor-actor. 31:55 --> 31:57 He just kind of looked like a bit of a schlub. 31:58 --> 31:58 I don't mean that in a bad way. 31:59 --> 32:02 He didn't look very, like, fit or big. 32:03 --> 32:04 I'm just looking at his credentials here. 32:04 --> 32:11 He might be a boxer in real life because his filmography is such where he's a boxing technical advisor. 32:12 --> 32:14 He was one for Creed III. 32:15 --> 32:20 In Grudge Match, he was a boxing technical and Rocky Balboa and the Contender TV series. 32:20 --> 32:20 He was a consultant. 32:21 --> 32:27 So I suspect he's within the boxing world and he's done stunts within boxing films. 32:27 --> 32:28 He's probably a boxer. 32:28 --> 32:30 Now, I don't think he did anything really professional. 32:31 --> 32:33 There's a lot of people who box who don't necessarily make the big leagues. 32:33 --> 32:35 Like, a lot of people who play baseball, they don't make the big leagues. 32:35 --> 32:38 Because his name in Wikipedia isn't clickable. 32:38 --> 32:40 Like, there's no Wikipedia entry on him. 32:40 --> 32:43 Which always kind of indicates they don't even have a Wikipedia page. 32:43 --> 32:43 Who are they? 32:43 --> 32:44 You're not even important. 32:44 --> 32:45 You don't have a Wikipedia page. 32:45 --> 32:49 But he plays Jerry Quarry, who does have a Wikipedia page. 32:49 --> 32:52 Because Jerry Quarry, of course, was a real boxer that Muhammad Ali fought. 32:52 --> 32:56 So anyone that fought Ali probably has a Wikipedia page. 32:57 --> 32:59 He died in 1999 at the age of 53. 32:59 --> 33:00 Man, you gotta wonder. 33:00 --> 33:01 Like, I was so young. 33:01 --> 33:04 He's only three years older than I am now. 33:04 --> 33:06 What did he die of? 33:06 --> 33:08 Yeah, there you go. 33:08 --> 33:12 Within a few years of his final belt, Quarry was unable to feed or dress himself. 33:13 --> 33:16 And he had to be cared for around the clock by relatives. 33:17 --> 33:18 Oh, that's sad. 33:18 --> 33:20 It says here it was boxing-related dementia. 33:21 --> 33:22 Oof. 33:23 --> 33:23 That's sad. 33:24 --> 33:26 He fought up to 1992. 33:27 --> 33:28 And he died seven years later. 33:28 --> 33:30 See, there's some real danger, guys. 33:30 --> 33:31 Just remember. 33:31 --> 33:33 Remember what will happen to Rocky in Rocky V. 33:33 --> 33:34 You can get brain damage. 33:35 --> 33:37 So anyways, he fights Jerry Quarry. 33:37 --> 33:38 Rest in peace to Jerry. 33:39 --> 33:40 The real Jerry, of course. 33:40 --> 33:44 And he defeats Jerry in the third round with a technical knockout. 33:45 --> 33:46 Now the big name comes in. 33:46 --> 33:50 He fights Joe Frazier in the fight of the century to reclaim the heavyweight title. 33:51 --> 33:54 But he loses by decision, marking the first career loss. 33:54 --> 33:58 This was a great moment in the film to show that Ali is human. 33:58 --> 33:59 He had a loss. 33:59 --> 34:01 And of course, Joe Frazier beat him. 34:01 --> 34:02 I know these names. 34:02 --> 34:04 Joe Frazier, Ali, George Foreman. 34:04 --> 34:06 These are big names of boxing. 34:06 --> 34:07 But I forget the timeline of things. 34:07 --> 34:09 I know Ali faced these guys. 34:09 --> 34:12 But I always forget when and where he faced him. 34:12 --> 34:12 What part. 34:12 --> 34:14 You know, was it before the Vietnam? 34:14 --> 34:15 After the Vietnam? 34:15 --> 34:17 I even forget who was the rumble in the jungle. 34:18 --> 34:18 Was it Joe? 34:18 --> 34:19 Was it George? 34:19 --> 34:21 Because Joe was talked about that he might replace George at one point. 34:22 --> 34:25 The guy that played Joe Frazier was James Toney. 34:26 --> 34:27 And who was James Toney? 34:27 --> 34:28 Great question. 34:28 --> 34:30 He, too, was a professional boxer. 34:30 --> 34:32 And he competed from 88 to 2017. 34:32 --> 34:37 He held world championships in three weight classes, including the International Boxing Federation. 34:37 --> 34:38 This guy was a fighter. 34:39 --> 34:41 And he did a great job playing Joe. 34:42 --> 34:44 Again, Michael Mann using a real boxer to play Joe Frazier. 34:45 --> 34:50 I don't recall even Joe Frazier having any real line, like within the film, having any real lines or interactions with Ali. 34:50 --> 34:51 Other than the fight. 34:52 --> 34:53 The fights themselves in the ring. 34:54 --> 34:56 And what's crazy, and I forgot this. 34:56 --> 35:03 So after Frazier beats Ali, Frazier later loses the championship to George Foreman. 35:04 --> 35:08 And George Foreman was played by just a big dude. 35:08 --> 35:11 And I was like, of course, this must be another boxer, of course. 35:12 --> 35:12 And it was. 35:12 --> 35:14 His name was Charles Shufford. 35:14 --> 35:22 What I like is they show there's a couple training sequences where they showed, you know, the character, George Foreman, punching the heavyweight bag, showing you the punch. 35:22 --> 35:26 This guy's punch was boom, boom, boom. 35:26 --> 35:33 When George and Ali fight, this is where the classic rope-a-dope happened, where Ali is leaning on the ropes. 35:33 --> 35:41 And I didn't realize that, within the film anyways, all of his coroner crew and everyone was yelling at him, get off the ropes, get off the ropes. 35:42 --> 35:56 And Ali was using the ropes to lean back and dodge and tire out Foreman, which, of course, was the classic moment in Rocky III, where Rocky, the character, tires out the big hitter, Clever Lang. 35:56 --> 36:01 And we know that Sly borrows from real life, and that's obviously what he borrowed from, was George Foreman gets tired. 36:01 --> 36:02 Ali knocks him out. 36:03 --> 36:05 So Charles Shufford was a boxer himself. 36:06 --> 36:07 He's currently 52. 36:07 --> 36:09 He had a pretty good boxing career. 36:09 --> 36:10 He had a great start. 36:10 --> 36:15 He went 13-0, and then he went 17-1, and then 19-2. 36:15 --> 36:17 So 19-2 is a pretty good record. 36:18 --> 36:22 But after that 19-2 record in 2002, it started to dip a little bit. 36:22 --> 36:27 He had a loss-loss, another win, but then loss-loss, draw-loss-loss, which almost makes sense. 36:28 --> 36:32 You know, the older you get, you're going to probably start losing a little bit more. 36:32 --> 36:35 And finally, his last big fight was a loss in 2008. 36:35 --> 36:40 So of course, now the movie ends, and I guess this is almost the way the movie should end, is the rumble in the jungle. 36:41 --> 36:42 This is like the WrestleMania event. 36:42 --> 36:43 This is the big event. 36:43 --> 36:45 Everyone's heard that term, rumble in the jungle. 36:45 --> 36:48 I believe it might have been credited to Don King, who came up with that. 36:49 --> 36:53 So Ali faces for him in Kinshasa Zaire for the heavyweight title. 36:54 --> 36:55 We see a very quick... 36:57 --> 36:59 I think Ali was a womanizer. 37:00 --> 37:02 He admits it to this woman, Veronica Porsche. 37:03 --> 37:04 He's weak in the knees for a woman. 37:04 --> 37:07 He said, something to the effect of Ali said, that's his cross to bear. 37:08 --> 37:08 His cross to bear. 37:09 --> 37:10 He can't say no to a girl. 37:11 --> 37:13 Islamic faith, help you do that? 37:14 --> 37:15 Listen, girl. 37:15 --> 37:17 As a Muslim, I am failed in the eyes of God. 37:18 --> 37:22 I should have discovered Islamic 50, because I'm weak on women. 37:23 --> 37:27 Firstly, take my eyes, my heart follow. 37:28 --> 37:33 Making me the most lovingest husband in the world, the most terriblest husband at the same time. 37:36 --> 37:37 Look at you. 37:38 --> 37:39 Green eyes. 37:40 --> 37:41 Cocoa skin. 37:43 --> 37:44 Okay, rest of me. 37:44 --> 37:45 Let's go. 37:48 --> 37:50 So he has an affair with Veronica Porsche in Zaire. 37:51 --> 37:54 And Belinda, his wife, confronts him after reading about it in the paper. 37:54 --> 37:59 So I guess he's kind of open about hanging out with girls and Zaire. 37:59 --> 38:02 And the paper is like, hey, Ali is fooling around on the woman. 38:02 --> 38:03 And it's a really weird scene. 38:03 --> 38:04 I love my wife. 38:04 --> 38:05 And I would never cheat on my wife. 38:05 --> 38:10 But I find it fascinating where she's just not really mad. 38:10 --> 38:11 She's like, do you love her? 38:11 --> 38:14 She even says something to the effect of like, I know you do this kind of stuff. 38:14 --> 38:17 But this one seems to be a little bit more than just a fling. 38:17 --> 38:24 This one seems to be, you know, so it's almost like she's okay with Ali fooling around. 38:24 --> 38:26 But this one seems like more than just fooling around. 38:26 --> 38:29 Because she asks her, asks him straight up, do you love her? 38:29 --> 38:30 And he goes, I don't know. 38:31 --> 38:32 You know what's going on? 38:33 --> 38:35 Do you have to throw it in my face? 38:36 --> 38:37 Do I have to read about it? 38:37 --> 38:40 Do people have to call me on the phone to tell me? 38:40 --> 38:41 I ain't mean for that to come out. 38:41 --> 38:43 And I live with the casual ones. 38:44 --> 38:45 I live with them. 38:45 --> 38:47 So why do you disrespect me like this? 38:48 --> 38:49 I respect you. 38:50 --> 38:50 I respect you. 38:50 --> 38:52 I will always respect you. 38:53 --> 38:54 Do you love her? 39:00 --> 39:01 I don't know. 39:03 --> 39:05 So what is supposed to happen now? 39:07 --> 39:09 I fight George. 39:10 --> 39:12 He uses the rope-a-dope strategy against Foreman. 39:12 --> 39:13 Leaning against the ropes. 39:14 --> 39:17 And he knocks off Foreman at the end of the film reclaiming the heavyweight championship. 39:17 --> 39:20 So the film ends with Ali winning the championship. 39:20 --> 39:21 Yay, film over. 39:21 --> 39:22 So that's the general plot. 39:22 --> 39:23 We kind of went through that. 39:23 --> 39:25 We were able to talk about some of the actors throughout. 39:25 --> 39:30 The ones that we missed, of course, was Jon Voight playing Howard Cosell. 39:31 --> 39:34 This film depicts them having more of a relationship than I even considered. 39:34 --> 39:38 They would almost play up that their enemies are roasting each other. 39:38 --> 39:40 But, of course, it seemed like they had a very loving, close friendship. 39:40 --> 39:41 So it was kind of cool to see. 39:42 --> 39:43 You know, so I went down there. 39:43 --> 39:44 I did everything I was supposed to do. 39:45 --> 39:47 And I flunked a draft board test. 39:47 --> 39:52 Then, without testing me again to see if I'm any wiser or worser, they decide I can go in the army. 39:54 --> 39:55 Cassius and my... 39:55 --> 39:56 My name ain't Cassius Clay. 39:56 --> 39:57 That is a slave name. 39:57 --> 39:58 And I am a free man. 39:58 --> 39:59 I am Muhammad Ali. 40:00 --> 40:02 You know, I apologize. 40:03 --> 40:05 I apologize to you on the air. 40:05 --> 40:07 Your name is Muhammad Ali. 40:07 --> 40:10 You have a right to be called whatever you want. 40:10 --> 40:11 I apologize to you. 40:12 --> 40:14 You sure make a lot of mistakes for a so-called educated man. 40:16 --> 40:17 You really went to law school? 40:17 --> 40:17 Yes, Muhammad. 40:18 --> 40:21 And to think I gave up a lucrative practice for the likes of you. 40:22 --> 40:24 I'm the best thing ever happened to you, Cosell. 40:24 --> 40:28 Without me, you'd be a tall white man with a microphone in his mouth. 40:28 --> 40:31 And without me, you'd be a mouth. 40:31 --> 40:33 And Jon Voight did a great job. 40:33 --> 40:36 The prosthetics or the makeup for his hair, Cosell. 40:36 --> 40:42 If you didn't hear him talk, even if you heard him talk, I couldn't tell that was Jon Voight. 40:42 --> 40:43 I mean, there's a couple of times it came through. 40:43 --> 40:44 It was Jon Voight's voice. 40:45 --> 40:47 But the makeup job was on point. 40:47 --> 40:50 You know, like Meryl Van Peebles playing Malcolm X or whatever it is. 40:50 --> 40:52 Or Ron Silver playing the trainer. 40:52 --> 40:53 Like, whatever. 40:53 --> 40:56 You know, sure, you don't quite look like the people that are in real life. 40:56 --> 41:00 But they made sure Jon Voight looked like Howard Cosell. 41:00 --> 41:05 And I wonder, not that they were trying to get, like, Oscar bait, but he did a great job. 41:06 --> 41:09 He was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, which is good. 41:09 --> 41:14 When you play real-life characters and really nail it, often those nominations will come in. 41:15 --> 41:16 And Jon Voight did a great job. 41:16 --> 41:19 It might have been Jon Voight's one of his last great jobs. 41:19 --> 41:22 And, of course, Jon Voight played a character in one of Michael Mann's previous films, Heat. 41:23 --> 41:24 So he revisits Michael Mann again. 41:25 --> 41:29 Jamie Foxx played a guy named Bandini Brown, Ollie's assistant trainer. 41:30 --> 41:31 God don't care about you. 41:31 --> 41:32 Don't care about me. 41:34 --> 41:35 And all of everything, we don't mean nothing. 41:35 --> 41:36 He don't know us. 41:37 --> 41:37 We be. 41:39 --> 41:40 And that's the only thing he did. 41:42 --> 41:43 But that's good. 41:43 --> 41:44 That's why we're free. 41:45 --> 41:46 Free ain't easy. 41:46 --> 41:47 Free is real. 41:47 --> 41:48 And realness is a motherfucker. 41:51 --> 41:52 Eat these raw meat. 41:54 --> 41:55 You're walking the same. 41:55 --> 41:58 You don't have a weight. 41:59 --> 42:00 Yeah. 42:02 --> 42:05 I sold your belt. 42:06 --> 42:10 I sold your belt to a bubble for $500 on Lennox Avenue. 42:10 --> 42:10 That's how low I did. 42:11 --> 42:11 I can't help it. 42:11 --> 42:12 I got a crazy mind. 42:15 --> 42:18 That belt sent me to him a weight boxing champion of the world. 42:18 --> 42:19 And I took that $500. 42:21 --> 42:22 And I put it in my home. 42:23 --> 42:25 This guy was a character. 42:25 --> 42:27 And Jamie Foxx nailed this character. 42:28 --> 42:33 And Jamie Foxx at this time, he hadn't really done incredible films or big-time films. 42:33 --> 42:35 This is a big film for Jamie Foxx. 42:35 --> 42:36 Of course, known for Living Color, for comedy. 42:36 --> 42:39 So this is to showcase Jamie's ability to act. 42:39 --> 42:47 Speaking of boxing, Jamie Foxx was supposed to do a Tyson biopic, which is just too late now. 42:47 --> 42:48 He's just way too old now. 42:48 --> 42:49 And I don't think that's happening at all. 42:49 --> 42:51 Jamie Foxx did a great job in this, however. 42:51 --> 42:53 And I love the hair that he gave this guy. 42:53 --> 42:56 I guess the guy in real life had a bald spot on top of it. 42:56 --> 42:58 So Jamie Foxx grew his hair out. 42:58 --> 43:01 He shaved his head to show the bald spot on top. 43:01 --> 43:09 And the guy, Drew Bandini Brown, he was a trainer, corner man of Muhammad Ali. 43:10 --> 43:16 He died in 1987 at the age of 59 from medical complications of injuries sustained in a previous car accident. 43:17 --> 43:22 He suffered a pinched nerve in his spine in the crash and subsequently had a serious fall at home from which he never recovered. 43:23 --> 43:25 He was visited by Ali on his deathbed. 43:25 --> 43:28 So obviously this guy was a conflicted character himself. 43:28 --> 43:30 He was in Shaft, by the way. 43:30 --> 43:31 Shaft's big score. 43:32 --> 43:33 So there you go. 43:34 --> 43:34 All right. 43:34 --> 43:35 Rest in peace to him. 43:35 --> 43:35 Yeah. 43:35 --> 43:36 Jamie Foxx did a great job. 43:37 --> 43:38 And I like Jamie Foxx. 43:38 --> 43:42 And we'll save more Jamie Foxx talk later because he's in the next film. 43:43 --> 43:43 Spoiler alert. 43:44 --> 43:50 So we'll talk more about him when we cover collateral because I would like to hear my guests. 43:50 --> 43:54 If my guest co-host shows up, we'll hear about that talk. 43:54 --> 43:55 Now the big one. 43:56 --> 43:57 Actually, did I miss anyone? 43:57 --> 44:01 We had some great other actors, which was where we had the comedian Paul Rodriguez. 44:01 --> 44:02 I recognize his face. 44:02 --> 44:04 He's a Mexican-American actor in a stand-up comedian. 44:04 --> 44:06 It's one of those guys where you're like, I know that face. 44:06 --> 44:07 I've seen that face. 44:07 --> 44:08 I've probably seen him do stand-up comedy. 44:08 --> 44:10 He didn't really have any big speaking parts. 44:10 --> 44:12 He just played Ali's doctor in the ring. 44:12 --> 44:14 You know, his corner man doctor. 44:14 --> 44:16 It's almost like, hey, I'm just happy to hang out in this film. 44:16 --> 44:18 LeVar Burton, blink, you'll miss him. 44:18 --> 44:20 He actually played Martin Luther King Jr., which is crazy. 44:20 --> 44:22 That was LeVar Burton under that. 44:22 --> 44:24 I had no idea until I saw the credits. 44:24 --> 44:27 Ted Levine had a small role returning from heat. 44:28 --> 44:30 He came back again for another Michael Mann vehicle. 44:30 --> 44:32 He played a government agent. 44:33 --> 44:35 What I got here is Malcolm shoulder-to-shoulder with Martin Luther King. 44:36 --> 44:39 And we got Malcolm traveling all over the world, getting Ben Bala and Nasser. 44:40 --> 44:42 We were better off before with Malcolm inside the nation. 44:45 --> 44:52 So we've decided we want you to get Elijah Muhammad to take Malcolm back. 44:53 --> 44:55 We talked previously on the last episode of The Insider. 44:55 --> 44:56 Bruce McGill came back. 44:56 --> 44:58 He played a government agent as well. 44:58 --> 44:59 Very small role. 44:59 --> 45:00 Hey, Joe Morton. 45:00 --> 45:01 You remember him from T2? 45:02 --> 45:04 He's the one that created Skynet or whatever. 45:04 --> 45:05 And he gets blown up. 45:05 --> 45:06 And he goes, I don't know how much longer I can hold this. 45:06 --> 45:08 And he blows up those cops or whatever. 45:09 --> 45:10 He played Ali's lawyer. 45:11 --> 45:16 Oh, of course, Don King was played by Malketti Williamson, who is also in Heat. 45:16 --> 45:17 He returns to the Michael Mann film. 45:17 --> 45:18 And he did a great job as Don King. 45:18 --> 45:24 He did a great job playing the promoter, Don King, who arranged the fight between Ali and Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle. 45:25 --> 45:25 George leaves. 45:25 --> 45:26 He ain't coming back. 45:26 --> 45:27 George don't like it here. 45:28 --> 45:32 How right you are, my suspicious and short Italian brother. 45:32 --> 45:33 Look here, man. 45:33 --> 45:39 My fiduciary responsibility to this first all-black promotion is analogous to a garden in the African sun. 45:39 --> 45:40 It must grow. 45:40 --> 45:41 It must bloom. 45:41 --> 45:46 Cannot fly when the gloom and shade of postponement to some dome like the Astrodome, the Superdome. 45:46 --> 45:48 Any dome I desire, where it be the privilege of light and blood of water. 45:48 --> 45:50 Because we're going to be bleeding out of there, baby, is money. 45:51 --> 45:52 A hemorrhage of cash. 45:52 --> 45:54 You know, I'm talking about blood on the floor. 45:54 --> 45:57 Double hotel costs, airplane, travel costs, food and beverage. 45:57 --> 45:59 So what do you want us to do? 46:00 --> 46:01 Muhammad Ali, people's champion. 46:02 --> 46:03 My black brother. 46:03 --> 46:04 I need you. 46:05 --> 46:05 I need your strength. 46:06 --> 46:09 I need you to find a way to get George to stay. 46:09 --> 46:11 Beat Moses in reverse. 46:12 --> 46:13 Do not let my people go. 46:13 --> 46:16 Keep them the fuck right here in Egypt. 46:16 --> 46:20 You just forget how far back Don King goes and how just, ugh, the guy was just such a... 46:21 --> 46:23 I mean, look, he knew how to promote a fight. 46:23 --> 46:25 He knew how to make money, but he was a murderer. 46:26 --> 46:27 At the end of the day, this guy's a murderer. 46:27 --> 46:31 And Mike Kelty Williamson did a great job playing Don King in this film. 46:32 --> 46:33 Great job. 46:33 --> 46:36 And you just forget that Don King was a part of Ali's life. 46:36 --> 46:41 But in the film, at least the film version, they showcase that Ali did not like Don King. 46:41 --> 46:42 All right. 46:42 --> 46:43 Will Smith. 46:43 --> 46:43 I know. 46:44 --> 46:46 We've been talking Ali, saying Muhammad Ali. 46:46 --> 46:54 We're going to end this episode talking about our thoughts on Will Smith as the actor playing Cassius Clay Jr. 46:54 --> 46:55 Muhammad Ali. 46:55 --> 46:57 He was also nominated for an Academy Award. 46:57 --> 46:59 I will say the slap. 46:59 --> 47:01 We've mentioned it already, but the slap on Chris Rock. 47:01 --> 47:03 What a weird, bizarre event. 47:04 --> 47:08 Like at the end of the day, that is just a crazy thing that we've witnessed. 47:08 --> 47:09 Think about it, guys. 47:09 --> 47:11 Just even talking about it. 47:11 --> 47:14 It's so bizarre that people thought it was fake. 47:14 --> 47:16 They thought it was a work, as they say in the wrestling world. 47:17 --> 47:19 They thought this was a work. 47:20 --> 47:20 But it wasn't. 47:21 --> 47:21 It was real. 47:22 --> 47:24 I forget the wrestling term for real. 47:24 --> 47:26 My co-hosts, who were supposed to be here, they know that term. 47:27 --> 47:29 Anyways, we thought they were tricking us. 47:30 --> 47:33 But Will Smith truly smacked Chris Rock. 47:34 --> 47:35 And he still won the Oscar. 47:36 --> 47:37 I guess they weren't going to take it away. 47:37 --> 47:38 It was 2022. 47:39 --> 47:40 Okay, 2022 was that event. 47:40 --> 47:48 And I guess in 2023 is when Jada Pinkett Smith said something like, you know, we're really not together. 47:48 --> 47:50 But they've been separated since 2016. 47:51 --> 47:53 Will Smith himself is currently 56. 47:53 --> 47:55 I mean, he looks great for his age. 47:55 --> 47:57 They have three kids together, of course. 47:57 --> 47:58 Jaden and Willow being the two big ones. 47:59 --> 48:01 That was just such an unfortunate incident. 48:01 --> 48:02 Because it sucks. 48:02 --> 48:05 Because whenever you're... 48:05 --> 48:06 I've always liked Will Smith. 48:06 --> 48:07 Here's the thing. 48:07 --> 48:07 History first. 48:07 --> 48:10 I watched Fresh Prince of Bel Air when I was young. 48:10 --> 48:11 I thought it was funny. 48:11 --> 48:11 It was great. 48:11 --> 48:12 Uncle Phil. 48:13 --> 48:15 I listened to Will Smith's rap as a kid, too. 48:15 --> 48:17 With DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. 48:17 --> 48:18 I listened to that stuff. 48:18 --> 48:20 I actually had the tape when I was a teenager. 48:21 --> 48:22 So I've been a Will Smith fan. 48:22 --> 48:26 I would say out of all the actors we've talked about on this Ali film. 48:26 --> 48:27 That's probably why I saw Ali. 48:28 --> 48:29 Because I was like, wow. 48:30 --> 48:39 And Will Smith did a great job embracing the caricature, the voice of Ali. 48:40 --> 48:42 There's some parts where it was so spot on. 48:42 --> 48:45 It was almost like it was a Saturday Night Live skit. 48:45 --> 48:45 I know it sounds weird. 48:45 --> 48:47 Not in a humorous way. 48:47 --> 48:50 But he did such a great job talking like Ali. 48:50 --> 48:51 It almost seemed like... 48:51 --> 48:54 Is he making fun of it? 48:54 --> 48:54 You know? 48:54 --> 48:56 Because it seemed pretty spot on. 48:56 --> 48:57 We could go through his filmography. 48:58 --> 49:00 And I've seen... 49:00 --> 49:00 Boy. 49:02 --> 49:02 Everything almost. 49:03 --> 49:04 Where do we start? 49:04 --> 49:04 It's funny. 49:05 --> 49:07 To this day, I still haven't seen Six Degrees of Separation. 49:07 --> 49:10 Which, ironically, is a very dramatic film. 49:10 --> 49:12 It was a big film for him to do. 49:12 --> 49:14 I understand it showed us dramatic chops right away. 49:15 --> 49:16 I still haven't seen it. 49:16 --> 49:19 Because it came out around the time the Fresh Prince just came off. 49:19 --> 49:20 The airways are close to it. 49:21 --> 49:21 But then 95. 49:22 --> 49:22 Right? 49:22 --> 49:23 30 years ago, by the way, folks. 49:23 --> 49:25 So you would have been 26 at the time. 49:25 --> 49:25 Crazy. 49:26 --> 49:26 Crazy. 49:27 --> 49:29 30 years ago, he's in Bad Boys. 49:29 --> 49:31 And then, of course, Independence Day. 49:31 --> 49:31 And then Men in Black. 49:32 --> 49:32 So boom. 49:32 --> 49:33 Boom. 49:33 --> 49:33 Boom. 49:34 --> 49:34 95. 49:34 --> 49:35 96. 49:35 --> 49:35 97. 49:36 --> 49:36 Summer blockbusters. 49:37 --> 49:37 Summer blockbusters. 49:38 --> 49:39 This guy was everywhere. 49:41 --> 49:41 Enemy of the state. 49:42 --> 49:43 Wild Wild West. 49:43 --> 49:43 Which I don't care. 49:44 --> 49:46 I kind of enjoyed Wild Wild West. 49:46 --> 49:47 I'm not afraid to say it. 49:48 --> 49:51 And then he toned it down a little bit with the Ledger, Beggar Vance, and then 2001 Ali. 49:52 --> 49:54 And Men in Black 2. 49:55 --> 49:56 Bad Boys 2. 49:57 --> 49:57 iRobot. 49:58 --> 49:59 Goes on and on. 49:59 --> 50:00 The Pursuit of Happiness. 50:00 --> 50:01 I think he got some critical acclaim. 50:01 --> 50:02 I Am Legend. 50:02 --> 50:03 That's a great one. 50:03 --> 50:05 The crazy, weird Hancock movie. 50:06 --> 50:11 But since the slap, I think he won the Oscar for King Richard. 50:11 --> 50:14 I think his movie Emancipation didn't do well. 50:14 --> 50:18 I think he sort of came back with Bad Boy Ride or Die. 50:18 --> 50:19 Did that do well at the box office? 50:19 --> 50:20 Yeah, it did actually. 50:20 --> 50:24 It only had a $100 million budget, which is actually pretty low considering. 50:24 --> 50:25 That's really low. 50:26 --> 50:27 And it made $400 million. 50:27 --> 50:28 So it made four times its budget. 50:29 --> 50:29 So there you go. 50:29 --> 50:29 But yeah. 50:30 --> 50:31 Look, at the end of the day, he slapped a guy. 50:31 --> 50:32 I get it. 50:33 --> 50:34 But it does mar his legacy a little bit. 50:35 --> 50:40 But objectively speaking, when I watched this film, I thought Will Smith did a great job playing Ali. 50:40 --> 50:42 I thought he did a really good job. 50:43 --> 50:47 And overall, I like the parts of the films that was covered. 50:47 --> 50:49 I mean, Ali has such a big life. 50:49 --> 50:50 Like, what part do you pick? 50:50 --> 50:53 Let's go over some of the thoughts here on the film here. 50:54 --> 50:56 Here's some of the little tidbits from the film I think you guys might like. 50:57 --> 51:00 So Will Smith himself, there was some early development with the script. 51:00 --> 51:02 It went through different people, different changes, things like that. 51:02 --> 51:08 But Will Smith himself, he pitched the script to director Barry Sonnefeld during the Wild Wild West filming. 51:08 --> 51:15 So 1999, I guess just a couple of years previous, it's hard to believe, with Columbia aiming for a late 98 start. 51:15 --> 51:16 And it was later delayed. 51:16 --> 51:19 So Barry Sonnefeld, another one I wouldn't mind covering on our podcast. 51:20 --> 51:22 Then November 99 rolls around. 51:22 --> 51:23 Barry Sonnefeld exited. 51:24 --> 51:29 The project, possibly due to the Wild Wild West poor box office. 51:29 --> 51:30 Because, you know, this is a big film, right? 51:31 --> 51:33 Boy, Hollywood's such a fickle beast. 51:34 --> 51:36 A director does a hit here, hit there. 51:36 --> 51:38 Now your box office poison, Barry. 51:38 --> 51:39 We're going to give this to somebody else. 51:40 --> 51:45 Michael Mann took over in February 2000 after his Oscar nomination for The Insider. 51:45 --> 51:48 So now like, hey, The Insider didn't lose money. 51:49 --> 51:51 Michael Mann did an incredible job with The Insider. 51:51 --> 51:52 Let's get him on Ali. 51:53 --> 51:59 So Michael Mann was looking at projects like The Aviator, Shooter, and Savages around this time. 52:00 --> 52:04 And Spike Lee was also considered, but not chosen. 52:04 --> 52:05 And why was he chosen? 52:05 --> 52:06 This is interesting. 52:06 --> 52:10 And Spike Lee himself said that, oh, and I get it. 52:10 --> 52:11 Spike Lee, he says this is not, it is Spike. 52:12 --> 52:14 He goes, only a black person should direct Ali. 52:14 --> 52:20 Can you imagine if you heard the opposite be said that only a white person could direct a white person? 52:20 --> 52:20 Yeah. 52:20 --> 52:21 Anyways. 52:21 --> 52:23 But it was Will Smith who wanted man. 52:25 --> 52:26 So Will Smith recognizes talent. 52:27 --> 52:31 So Michael Mann himself brought on Eric Roth to co-write the script as well. 52:31 --> 52:32 They did work on The Insider together. 52:33 --> 52:37 Will Smith officially signed on with a $20 million salary. 52:37 --> 52:40 But he actually was hesitant to take on the role. 52:40 --> 52:47 But he got a personal call from Muhammad Ali himself who says Smith, quote, was the only one as good looking as him for the role. 52:47 --> 52:49 You get to hear Muhammad Ali saying that. 52:49 --> 52:50 Isn't that fantastic? 52:51 --> 52:58 Smith and Michael Mann felt very strongly about the project that they said themselves that they would cover budget overruns with their own salaries. 52:59 --> 53:00 The film he began in January 2001. 53:01 --> 53:04 It had a $105 million budget. 53:04 --> 53:05 Now this is crazy. 53:05 --> 53:10 I just finished saying that Bad Boys 4 that came out last year had a $100 million budget in today's funds. 53:11 --> 53:11 Right? 53:11 --> 53:11 In 2020. 53:12 --> 53:14 So this is kind of a high budget for this type of film. 53:14 --> 53:14 Right? 53:16 --> 53:23 Will Smith himself, he spent one year preparing up to seven hours of daily boxing training, Islamic studies, and dialect training. 53:24 --> 53:26 He had a 6.30 wake up. 53:26 --> 53:32 He would run five miles, three hours of ring work, and then a full afternoon of weight training. 53:32 --> 53:35 He gained 35 pounds of muscle in less than four months. 53:36 --> 53:40 Will Smith himself described his portrayal of Ali as his proudest work. 53:40 --> 53:41 I can see that. 53:41 --> 53:43 Not until he did Emancipation, of course. 53:43 --> 53:46 Now, the fight scenes were really well done. 53:46 --> 53:51 I admit, I'm a Rocky fan, so I'm kind of used to the Rocky fight sequences. 53:51 --> 53:56 But what I love about the fight scenes here and the way they were filmed, they're very point of view, some of these sequences. 53:56 --> 53:58 I thought they were done very well. 53:58 --> 54:00 You felt like you were in the ring the whole time. 54:01 --> 54:02 Very few shots were done outside the ring. 54:03 --> 54:04 A lot of in the ring. 54:04 --> 54:05 A lot of in the ring. 54:05 --> 54:10 Which I think, ironically, Ryan Cooler stole from Michael Mann a little bit when he did Creed. 54:10 --> 54:13 He just felt like you're just in the ring with him. 54:14 --> 54:15 And all the hits were hits. 54:16 --> 54:18 You could tell the boxers were holding back. 54:18 --> 54:19 They were not trying to knock each other out. 54:19 --> 54:22 But there's, you know, there's contact. 54:22 --> 54:24 And that's why they were using real boxers. 54:24 --> 54:27 So these real boxers could take the pullback punches from Will. 54:27 --> 54:28 They were able to take the hits. 54:28 --> 54:30 They trained how to take hits. 54:30 --> 54:33 So it really made for authentic looking boxing. 54:33 --> 54:36 I would even say the boxing was, I would say boring, but it was realistic. 54:37 --> 54:37 You know what I mean? 54:37 --> 54:40 It wasn't like the Rocky IV type boxing. 54:40 --> 54:42 It felt realistic fighting. 54:43 --> 54:47 There were a lot of hugging and leaning on each other and grappling a little bit. 54:47 --> 54:49 Which is kind of what we see in boxing. 54:49 --> 54:51 So it had that realism feel to it. 54:51 --> 54:58 So the boxer, Charles Shufford, who played George Foreman, he was allowed to hit Smith as hard as he wanted, provided he didn't knock him out. 54:59 --> 54:59 Isn't that crazy? 55:00 --> 55:04 It was a big, so to Will Smith's credit, he was taking hits from the real boxers. 55:05 --> 55:06 A little funny side note here. 55:07 --> 55:15 John Voight, for whatever reason, he would call extras family members, leaving voicemails to confirm they were working and not socializing. 55:15 --> 55:26 I guess some people might have thought that their early morning hours, when film got extended to the early mornings, John Voight was calling family members like, don't worry, your husband's not out fooling around. 55:26 --> 55:27 We're on the movie set. 55:27 --> 55:31 So the movie itself opened up in December 25th. 55:32 --> 55:33 I love Christmas Day movies. 55:33 --> 55:34 Do you guys ever do that? 55:34 --> 55:36 You ever go to the movie on Christmas Day? 55:36 --> 55:37 It's one of my favorite traditions. 55:38 --> 55:40 It opened up on Christmas Day in 2001. 55:40 --> 55:42 It grossed $14 million in its opening weekend. 55:42 --> 55:48 And a total gross worldwide of a whopping $88 million. 55:48 --> 55:52 So it actually experienced financial loss. 55:52 --> 55:57 It's high production of marketing costs led to $100 million in 2001. 55:58 --> 55:59 Million dollars for Columbia Pictures. 56:00 --> 56:02 That's just crazy. 56:02 --> 56:04 It lost $100 million. 56:04 --> 56:05 So poor Michael Mann. 56:05 --> 56:10 I think this might have been Michael Mann's first public, say, failure. 56:10 --> 56:11 But if you're talking about making money, right? 56:11 --> 56:13 This is Michael Mann's seventh film. 56:14 --> 56:16 And he had a pretty good run. 56:17 --> 56:17 Thief in the Keep. 56:18 --> 56:18 You know. 56:19 --> 56:19 Manhunter. 56:19 --> 56:20 I get it. 56:20 --> 56:22 But they weren't expected to be. 56:23 --> 56:25 Then last one, he can's heat insider. 56:25 --> 56:27 That was the one, two, three punch where he was like. 56:28 --> 56:29 Box office. 56:29 --> 56:30 Box office. 56:30 --> 56:31 And box office. 56:31 --> 56:33 Because the insider wasn't a lot of money to make. 56:35 --> 56:38 So Ali was a financial loss to the company. 56:39 --> 56:41 But does he get it back, folks? 56:42 --> 56:43 Stand by when we cover collateral. 56:44 --> 56:45 Does he get the mojo back? 56:45 --> 56:46 What does it take? 56:46 --> 56:47 What kind of man? 56:48 --> 56:49 Who needs to star in the film? 56:49 --> 56:50 We'll find out. 56:50 --> 56:52 So what do critics have to say about this film? 56:52 --> 56:54 Well, the raw score, Tomatoes, 69% approval. 56:55 --> 56:55 All right. 56:56 --> 57:00 And the average score on IMDb, 64%. 57:00 --> 57:02 Critics and fans are about the same. 57:02 --> 57:04 It's generally favorable reviews. 57:05 --> 57:08 When people walked out of the theater, that's called the CinemaScore. 57:08 --> 57:11 What they do is they pull people. 57:11 --> 57:14 Once they walk out, your initial like, oh, did you like the film? 57:15 --> 57:15 Got to be plus. 57:15 --> 57:17 When people left the theater, they were satisfied. 57:18 --> 57:20 But I guess the word of mouth was, who knows? 57:21 --> 57:22 So here's some big timer reviews. 57:22 --> 57:24 Roger Debert at the time gave it two stars. 57:24 --> 57:28 He criticized the film's lack of Ali's flash, fire, and humor, 57:28 --> 57:30 calling it more eulogy than celebration. 57:30 --> 57:32 I don't think that's true, Roger. 57:33 --> 57:36 I thought Will did a great job showing flash, fire, and humor. 57:37 --> 57:42 Joe Frazier told me on this show that he could knock you out. 57:42 --> 57:44 See, there you go agitating. 57:44 --> 57:47 You should have asked Smoke and Joe, what have he been smoking? 57:48 --> 57:50 That boy even dreamed he'd whoop me. 57:50 --> 57:51 He better wake up and apologize. 57:52 --> 57:56 But if I ever was to get in the ring with Joe, here's what you might see. 57:57 --> 58:01 Ali comes out to meet Frazier, but Frazier starts to retreat. 58:01 --> 58:05 If Joe goes back an inch farther, he'll wind up in a ringside seat. 58:05 --> 58:07 Ali swings with his left. 58:07 --> 58:09 Ali swings with his right. 58:09 --> 58:11 Just look at the kid carry the fight. 58:11 --> 58:14 Frazier keeps backing, but there's not enough room. 58:14 --> 58:17 It's only a matter of time before Ali lowers the boom. 58:18 --> 58:19 Ali swings with his right. 58:19 --> 58:20 What a beautiful swing. 58:20 --> 58:23 But the punch lifts Frazier clean out of the ring. 58:23 --> 58:26 Frazier's still rising, and the referee wears a frown. 58:26 --> 58:29 Because he can't start counting until Frazier comes down. 58:30 --> 58:31 Frazier's disappeared from view. 58:31 --> 58:33 The crowd is getting frantic. 58:33 --> 58:34 But our radar station's done picked him up. 58:35 --> 58:36 He's somewhere over the Atlantic. 58:37 --> 58:42 Now, who would have thought when they came to the fight, they was going to witness the launching of a black satellite? 58:43 --> 58:45 But don't wait for that fight. 58:45 --> 58:47 It ain't never going to happen. 58:48 --> 58:52 Only thing you could do is wonder and imagine. 58:54 --> 58:56 It was almost too much in a sense. 58:56 --> 58:58 He was always being silly and humorous with the press. 58:59 --> 59:01 So, I'm not sure what he's saying there. 59:02 --> 59:05 Todd McCarthy of Variety praised Smith and Voight's performers. 59:05 --> 59:05 Agreed. 59:06 --> 59:07 Yeah, we've already done that one in a discussion. 59:07 --> 59:08 I praise it too. 59:09 --> 59:13 But then he said it felt that lacked deep dramatic scenes, like boxing strategy discussions. 59:14 --> 59:15 Okay, look. 59:16 --> 59:16 Sure. 59:17 --> 59:19 There wasn't boxing strategy discussions. 59:20 --> 59:23 But to say that it lacked deep dramatic themes, I don't think that's true. 59:23 --> 59:26 I think it showcased the Vietnam sequence. 59:26 --> 59:28 Just his struggle with the dad stuff. 59:29 --> 59:31 I think it would have been a five-hour movie. 59:32 --> 59:33 They touched on it. 59:33 --> 59:34 I don't think it lacked it whatsoever. 59:35 --> 59:37 Deep, I guess, is the key word. 59:37 --> 59:38 I don't know. 59:38 --> 59:40 I enjoyed the dramatic journey. 59:41 --> 59:43 USA Today gave it two and a half out of four stars. 59:43 --> 59:44 Not bad. 59:44 --> 59:48 They said it was good enough for fans, but less engaging than documentaries. 59:48 --> 59:51 Well, I don't want it to be a documentary like Cassius Clay and When We Were Kings. 59:52 --> 59:53 That's why those are documentaries. 59:53 --> 59:55 We want to see those and enjoy those. 59:55 --> 01:00:00 This is like a Coles Note version of Muhammad Ali's life and this big part of his life. 01:00:00 --> 01:00:04 From Sonny Listen to the Rumble in the Jungle, that was the time frame they wanted to focus on. 01:00:04 --> 01:00:04 That's the gravy. 01:00:05 --> 01:00:05 That's the big stuff. 01:00:05 --> 01:00:08 I thought it did a great Coles Note version of that, quite frankly. 01:00:08 --> 01:00:10 You wouldn't even have to know Ali's life. 01:00:11 --> 01:00:12 I peripherally know his life. 01:00:12 --> 01:00:15 So even for me, it was like, oh, that's where, oh, okay. 01:00:15 --> 01:00:21 That's, I actually liked how it tied all of the things I kind of knew about Muhammad Ali and put it in this nice chronological order. 01:00:21 --> 01:00:28 Other than the fact that he didn't give me my timestamps, other than that, it was a good overall view of his life during that time. 01:00:28 --> 01:00:30 Lastly, I did not know this. 01:00:30 --> 01:00:35 Will Smith served as a pallbearer at Muhammad Ali's funeral in June of 2016. 01:00:35 --> 01:00:35 Wow. 01:00:36 --> 01:00:36 Okay. 01:00:36 --> 01:00:37 So that's about it. 01:00:37 --> 01:00:38 I did the solo. 01:00:38 --> 01:00:42 It's a little bit different because I don't have anything to bounce off with somebody. 01:00:42 --> 01:00:43 You get to hear my voice for an hour. 01:00:43 --> 01:00:44 Sorry. 01:00:44 --> 01:00:45 But I think it went okay. 01:00:46 --> 01:00:47 I hope it went okay. 01:00:47 --> 01:00:49 So overall, I enjoyed this movie. 01:00:49 --> 01:00:51 Did I have a better view and experience than the insider? 01:00:51 --> 01:00:52 No, I did. 01:00:52 --> 01:00:56 It's weird how the insider, I think is, I'd say, yeah. 01:00:56 --> 01:00:57 Is it a better film? 01:00:57 --> 01:00:57 Yeah. 01:00:58 --> 01:00:59 Yeah, I guess so. 01:00:59 --> 01:01:01 But this is a good film. 01:01:02 --> 01:01:04 I think the reviews are 70% almost. 01:01:04 --> 01:01:06 I think that's fair in that area. 01:01:06 --> 01:01:09 I did feel like there was something lacking. 01:01:09 --> 01:01:13 Maybe it was the deep, dramatical thing that one guy said, but I don't know what it was. 01:01:13 --> 01:01:14 It's hard to explain. 01:01:14 --> 01:01:21 Was it my Will Smith post-slap enjoyment retroactively making me a harder time to like Will Smith in this film? 01:01:22 --> 01:01:28 As good as Will Smith was playing Muhammad Ali, there was something caricature about it. 01:01:28 --> 01:01:29 Does that make sense? 01:01:30 --> 01:01:43 Craig, who's guest co-hosted with me a few times, he brought up a good point where sometimes it's more important to capture the spirit of the character than the actual sound and movements of the character or the person in real life. 01:01:43 --> 01:01:44 I don't know what it was. 01:01:44 --> 01:01:47 So he did a great job transforming his body physically. 01:01:47 --> 01:01:48 He was big. 01:01:48 --> 01:01:49 Will was big in this movie. 01:01:49 --> 01:01:50 He put on 45 pounds of muscle. 01:01:51 --> 01:01:52 He was a big guy. 01:01:53 --> 01:01:57 I think he even put on a little bit of a gut for that later part of Ali's life. 01:01:58 --> 01:02:01 So he transformed himself physically amazing. 01:02:01 --> 01:02:03 He did a great job in the boxing sequences. 01:02:03 --> 01:02:05 All that was like 10 out of 10. 01:02:05 --> 01:02:10 So I'm embracing Muhammad Ali, the way he walked and boxed, talked perfect. 01:02:10 --> 01:02:12 But there was something missing. 01:02:13 --> 01:02:16 And it's hard to explain unless you watch the film. 01:02:16 --> 01:02:20 There seemed to be some sort of emptiness to it, some sort of emotional. 01:02:21 --> 01:02:26 So when Ali wins the rumble in the jungle, maybe because he's just a complicated human, like, yeah, we just cheer for an adulterer. 01:02:26 --> 01:02:27 Yay. 01:02:27 --> 01:02:28 He's a draft dodger. 01:02:29 --> 01:02:29 Yay. 01:02:30 --> 01:02:32 I guess he's complicated. 01:02:32 --> 01:02:37 And so your emotions watching the movie is, you know, he's not a draft dodger. 01:02:37 --> 01:02:37 You get what I'm saying. 01:02:37 --> 01:02:39 But he paid the penalty. 01:02:39 --> 01:02:40 To his credit, he paid the penalty. 01:02:41 --> 01:02:41 He then backed down. 01:02:42 --> 01:02:46 But the point is, I'm not sure what I'm cheering for sometimes. 01:02:46 --> 01:02:48 You know, again, I'm a Rocky fan. 01:02:48 --> 01:02:50 He's just such a good person. 01:02:50 --> 01:02:52 Rocky, the character, is just such a good person. 01:02:52 --> 01:02:54 So he can't help but cheer for his pureness. 01:02:54 --> 01:02:56 You know, he's a Christ-like figure almost. 01:02:56 --> 01:02:57 I get it. 01:02:57 --> 01:02:57 It's not realistic. 01:02:57 --> 01:02:58 Like, nobody's perfect. 01:02:59 --> 01:03:03 So it's a great cold-note version of Muhammad Ali in his life. 01:03:03 --> 01:03:06 Will Smith did a great job encapsulating Muhammad Ali. 01:03:07 --> 01:03:10 But there is some sort of emotional disconnect. 01:03:10 --> 01:03:11 I don't know what it is. 01:03:11 --> 01:03:12 I wasn't invested. 01:03:12 --> 01:03:15 I was more invested in the cigarette story than I was in the boxing story. 01:03:15 --> 01:03:21 Like, I was more invested in the family dynamics of the Insider family than I was in Muhammad Ali's family. 01:03:21 --> 01:03:23 So, interesting. 01:03:23 --> 01:03:25 I enjoyed it the second time more. 01:03:25 --> 01:03:32 If I was to talk to 26-year-old Ryan and 49-year-old Ryan, I enjoyed the film more now than I did in 2001. 01:03:32 --> 01:03:33 So there's that. 01:03:34 --> 01:03:35 This is a film you have to see. 01:03:36 --> 01:03:37 It's a good film. 01:03:37 --> 01:03:37 It's done very well. 01:03:38 --> 01:03:39 The highlights are the boxing sequences. 01:03:39 --> 01:03:41 There's more boxing than I remember. 01:03:41 --> 01:03:42 There's a lot of boxing in this film. 01:03:42 --> 01:03:43 And they're done very well. 01:03:43 --> 01:03:44 And they're long sequences. 01:03:44 --> 01:03:46 Like, these boxing matches aren't quick. 01:03:46 --> 01:03:47 It's almost like you're watching the whole fight. 01:03:47 --> 01:03:48 I'm not even joking. 01:03:48 --> 01:03:50 So, it's a 2-hour and 40-minute movie for a reason. 01:03:51 --> 01:03:52 Yeah. 01:03:52 --> 01:03:53 All right. 01:03:53 --> 01:03:54 I don't know. 01:03:54 --> 01:03:54 That's it. 01:03:55 --> 01:03:57 I hope you guys enjoyed my solo. 01:03:57 --> 01:03:58 This might happen again. 01:03:58 --> 01:03:58 I don't know. 01:03:58 --> 01:03:59 I'm doing a lot of films. 01:04:00 --> 01:04:03 I'm going to be doing this Director's Chair Network project for a while. 01:04:03 --> 01:04:04 So, I might do some of my own. 01:04:05 --> 01:04:06 Let me know in the comments below. 01:04:06 --> 01:04:08 Ryan, we really wish you had a co-host because you suck. 01:04:08 --> 01:04:09 Which is true. 01:04:09 --> 01:04:10 That's fine. 01:04:10 --> 01:04:11 But let me know. 01:04:11 --> 01:04:12 Or let me not know. 01:04:12 --> 01:04:15 But I am always going to invite people on the next episode I have. 01:04:15 --> 01:04:17 I'm pretty certain that person will show up. 01:04:17 --> 01:04:19 But I don't want to say their name in case they don't. 01:04:19 --> 01:04:19 But, yeah. 01:04:20 --> 01:04:20 Thanks, everyone. 01:04:20 --> 01:04:21 Thanks for watching. 01:04:21 --> 01:04:22 And, yeah. 01:04:22 --> 01:04:23 You need to end listening. 01:04:24 --> 01:04:24 Go watch Ali. 01:04:25 --> 01:04:26 It really is a good film. 01:04:26 --> 01:04:28 And especially if you're on this journey with me, the Michael Mann journey. 01:04:29 --> 01:04:29 Go watch it. 01:04:29 --> 01:04:30 If you want to prepare. 01:04:30 --> 01:04:30 Yeah, I should do this. 01:04:31 --> 01:04:32 If you want to prepare for the next episode. 01:04:32 --> 01:04:33 Go watch Collateral. 01:04:34 --> 01:04:35 And we'll talk about Collateral. 01:04:35 --> 01:04:36 All right, guys. 01:04:36 --> 01:04:36 Talk later. 01:04:36 --> 01:04:37 Bye. 01:04:37 --> 01:04:38 Bye. 01:04:38 --> 01:04:39 Bye. 01:04:39 --> 01:04:40 Bye. 01:04:40 --> 01:05:10 Thank you.