Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 96. Anne Lister - Gentleman Jack

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96. Anne Lister - Gentleman Jack · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hello delicious friends,
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Speaker 1: and welcome to Hooded. What Now the history podcast That's
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Speaker 1: not your history class? With me your host Katie Charlewood,
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Speaker 1: history harlot and reader of books, books which may have
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Speaker 1: writened some fully grown men this week. So I am
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Speaker 1: getting some renovations done at home because we need them
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Speaker 1: and the house has not been touched in twenty years,
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Speaker 1: and so we're just updating it and fixing things and
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Speaker 1: making it livable effectively. And so my bedroom is currently
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Speaker 1: being used as storage. And I received some lovely Valentine's
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Speaker 1: gifts this year which were books. Are we surprised books?
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Speaker 1: It's always books, because I had some lovely gentlemen send
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Speaker 1: me some books this year because I posted it on
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Speaker 1: my Instagram. And sometimes if you ask, you shall receive.
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Speaker 1: So some lovely vellas sent me some books sort of
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Speaker 1: unexplained mysteries. I got doctor Kate Lister's book. Now. I
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Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen the parts of the Caribee movies,
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Speaker 1: but whenever someone goes Jack Sparrow and everyone goes Captain
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Speaker 1: Captain Jack Sparrow, yeah that's me with doctor Kate Lester
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Speaker 1: anytime someone calls her Kate Luster. I'm like doctor, doctor
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Speaker 1: Kate Lister. But yeah, I got her book, and I
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Speaker 1: also got another book which is very beautiful, and I
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Speaker 1: had it sitting just like on top of a bunch
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Speaker 1: of stuff in the room. And the builder goes in
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Speaker 1: and he obviously sees this beautiful book catches his eye.
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Speaker 1: It's black and green and kind of iridescent and beautiful,
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Speaker 1: but it also happens to be the League of Lady Poisoners.
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Speaker 1: This does not go down too well, especially when you
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Speaker 1: see the other volumes in the room, because I have
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Speaker 1: like skilled and scared to domestic poisons.
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Speaker 2: I have.
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Speaker 1: Just once just called poison. So many many different ways
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Speaker 1: to kill people, murder, mile unexplained deaths, which just seemed
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Speaker 1: to not go down too well. And then my mum
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Speaker 1: had to explain, you know that I collect books about
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Speaker 1: old timey death, which did not help Mattles much. I
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Speaker 1: can tell by that. She eventually said, you know, she's
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Speaker 1: a historian and she does this, and they're like, okay, weird,
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Speaker 1: but it's fine, I guess. So that was that was that.
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Speaker 1: That was a fun time, and it gave me a
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Speaker 1: good laugh this week because I have been busy because
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Speaker 1: I am organizing tours. I'm in talks for a sort
3:12
Speaker 1: of places in the UK and Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, London,
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Speaker 1: I guess Cardiff. Could I come to Cardiff maybe if
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Speaker 1: there is a place for me to be. Edinburgh on
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Speaker 1: the list of Glasgow. I know the Glasgow tickets have
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Speaker 1: actually gone on sale and at time of recording, half
3:32
Speaker 1: the tickets are gone. So half the tickets are already
3:34
Speaker 1: gone for the Glasgow show. So if you want to
3:37
Speaker 1: come see me, you're you're gonna want to get those
3:39
Speaker 1: tickets because they are they're actually going pretty fast. Trying
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Speaker 1: to think. I'm in talks for I've got I've got
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Speaker 1: to show the Cork as well, but that's not till September.
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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get Belfast sorted. There's just so many
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Speaker 1: things I've I've reached out to a few festivals and
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Speaker 1: it's just it's just a busy old time, you know.
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Speaker 1: It's it's a lot going on. But I want to
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Speaker 1: come out. I want to come see you. I want
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Speaker 1: you to come see me.
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Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just I didn't realize how stressful organizing
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Speaker 2: a tour all by myself would be, but.
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Speaker 1: Here we are, and sometimes you can do it if
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Speaker 1: you just make yourself do it and have no other choice.
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Speaker 1: Like if there's no other option and you've only got
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Speaker 1: one road to take, then then you take that road.
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Speaker 1: And that seems to be a lot of it with
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Speaker 1: this podcast. It's like, how did you end up doing
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Speaker 1: A B and C? I had zero choice in the
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Speaker 1: matter of friends, just how it happened. But I know
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Speaker 1: what you're thinking. You're thinking, quit your jibber chapper in
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Speaker 1: fact me, In fact you, I will. But first we've
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Speaker 1: got to get our source on. Our sources are I
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Speaker 1: Know my Own Heart. The Diaries of Ane Lister seventeen
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Speaker 1: ninety one to eighteen forty by an Lister.
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Speaker 3: And Lister of.
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Speaker 1: Shebden Hall, Halifax. Her Diaries and the Historians by Jill
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Speaker 1: Lyddington and Lister The First Modern Lesbian by Richter Norton.
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Speaker 1: Gentlemen Jack of Halifax by Elizabeth Maver Gentlemen Jack, The
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Speaker 1: Real Alister by Anne Trauma, Miss Lister of Shebden Hall,
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Speaker 1: Selected Letters by Muriel Greene. And of course we have
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Speaker 1: our old favorites Biography dot com and History dot Com.
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Speaker 1: I owse it in comfortably good, then let's be gain.
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Speaker 1: So I promised you a lesbian and a lesbian you
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Speaker 1: shall receive and Listern known as gentleman Jack. She is
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Speaker 1: like a prolific diarist of nothing else. She's known as
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Speaker 1: the first modern lesbian because she's one of the first
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Speaker 1: opened and known cases of lesbianism in oh recent history.
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Speaker 1: And she she wrote everything down like she timestamped things.
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Speaker 1: She kept journals, like first it was like loose papers
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Speaker 1: and bits and pieces, but then she actually kept journals,
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Speaker 1: but she wrote them in this cipher, this secret code,
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Speaker 1: and it was like how I put it, like it
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Speaker 1: was a combination of numbers, letters, zodiac symbols, Greek letters,
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Speaker 1: just a combination of this different forms of language, which
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Speaker 1: when they are coded. The funny thing is when the
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Speaker 1: diaries are decoded, people didn't want to publish them because
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Speaker 1: they are graphic as fuck, Like Anne Lister wrote in
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Speaker 1: detail about everything from going here and having a chat
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Speaker 1: to how she went down on a woman to what
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Speaker 1: she hape for lunch that day, Like everything is fastidious
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Speaker 1: but also rather salacious, and it is wild, to be honest,
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Speaker 1: and it's it's such a shock for the people who
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Speaker 1: are like transcribing it because they could not believe that
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Speaker 1: a woman wrote this, like they actually thought it was
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Speaker 1: a fake. Initially, people thought this had to be some
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Speaker 1: kind of hoax because they couldn't believe that a woman,
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Speaker 1: especially women in this era, was writing in this fashion.
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Speaker 1: But I am getting ahead of myself and we should
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Speaker 1: go to the beginning. So Anne Lister is born on
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Speaker 1: the third of April seventeen ninety one in Halifax, which
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Speaker 1: is in West Riding of Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom, so
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Speaker 1: on and so forth. She is the second child of
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Speaker 1: Jeremy Lister, who served in the British Army and he
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Speaker 1: fought in the American War of Independence, so he lost.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So.
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Speaker 1: He had married Rebecca Battle. So she was the child
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Speaker 1: of Jeremy Lister and Rebecca Battle. So her older brother
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Speaker 1: John didn't last past a year, and then it was Anne,
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Speaker 1: and then it was Samuel, and then a few more.
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Speaker 1: But effectively I think there was what three Noye had
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Speaker 1: three daughters, four sons, but only Anne and her younger
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Speaker 1: sister marrying are the only girls to of past twenty,
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Speaker 1: which is not surprising because like you know, it's the past.
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Speaker 1: People die a lot, like from everything. I mean, the
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Speaker 1: Victorian diseases are coming back. Scurvy has returned scurvy like
9:15
Speaker 1: because people aren't getting enough oranges like fox sakes, mate
9:19
Speaker 1: have a tangerine like a clementine, a satsuma like just
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Speaker 1: a lemon. At this point, I usually tell people to
9:28
Speaker 1: go suck on a frozen lemon rights as an insult,
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Speaker 1: but now I think they should do it for the
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Speaker 1: benefit of their fucking health. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Speaker 1: So and she's a bit of a tomboy grown up. Effectively,
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Speaker 1: she grows up like the man of the manner. Effectively,
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Speaker 1: she wasn't darning and making tea, which a lot of
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Speaker 1: the time when someone is referred to as a tomboy,
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Speaker 1: especially in the past, it just means they aren't specifically
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Speaker 1: being incredibly ladylike. My favorite part of it was they
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Speaker 1: keept referring to her as an unmanageable tomboy. Is if
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Speaker 1: it would somehow be better if you know, she could
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Speaker 1: do masculine things, but they could control her. But they
10:18
Speaker 1: could not. She was very much her own person from
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Speaker 1: the get go. And when she's seven, like this isn't
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Speaker 1: unusual for anyone. She gets sent off to well boarding school.
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Speaker 1: And so she goes to boarding school and Ripton and
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Speaker 1: that's run by Missus Cheddle and Missus Haiggs. And when
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Speaker 1: she's ten she gets educated home. Did the school finish
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Speaker 1: in that age?
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Speaker 3: Did it not?
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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, she was back home and she was
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Speaker 1: being educated by the local reverend, George Scalding, I say
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Speaker 1: the reverend. He's a vicar. It's the same thing, vicar,
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Speaker 1: the reverend whatevers. So she is being educated by the
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Speaker 1: vicar when she's at home, but when she goes and
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Speaker 1: visits her aunt and uncle who owned Shebden Hall, she
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Speaker 1: is taught by missus Melin, who may be a governess.
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Speaker 1: That it's the past. It's before the diaries, so it's
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Speaker 1: very vague, to say the least. Now, when she's in
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Speaker 1: her sort of tween to teen years, she ends up
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Speaker 1: being sent to a boarding school. Fourteen, she's fourteen, she
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Speaker 1: goes to the Manor House school in York, although it
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Speaker 1: was the King's manor buildings, I think. So she goes
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Speaker 1: there and she doesn't stay in the dormitory with the
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Speaker 1: rest of the girls. Oh no, no, no, no, no
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Speaker 1: no no. She's in the attic room away from them.
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Speaker 1: Is it because she was causing trouble and they didn't
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Speaker 1: want her, you know, attitude and behavior to rub off
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Speaker 1: on the other girls. Was it because she was the
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Speaker 1: daughter merely of a captain and as such wasn't as
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Speaker 1: wealthy and did not deserve to be in the dormitories.
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Speaker 1: Or was it because she was gay? Whom's to say.
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Speaker 1: We don't know why they put her in the attic specifically,
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Speaker 1: but she didn't mind for many reasons, one of which
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Speaker 1: being she had a roommate, Eliza Rain. Eliza was from India.
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Speaker 1: She had been sent there because her father died. She
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Speaker 1: was the illegitimate daughter of William Rain, a surgeon in
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Speaker 1: the East India Company. Now we all know my opinions
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Speaker 1: on the East India Company, but yeah, yeah, he was well,
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Speaker 1: she was illegitimate, and then he died, so she was
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Speaker 1: put under the guardianship of William Duffin, who was a
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Speaker 1: surgeon in York. So that was both Eliza and her
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Speaker 1: sister Jane. So when Anne and Eliza are at the
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Speaker 1: school together and they're sharing the attic bedroom which they named,
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Speaker 1: by the way, they called it the slope. Now, is
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Speaker 1: someone who used to live on a road that was
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Speaker 1: called the line. I can't say anything to anybody about
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Speaker 1: naming locations, but this slope is where they stayed, and
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Speaker 1: that is where they began their relationship. And it's also
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Speaker 1: the point where Anne starts keeping a diary and she's
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Speaker 1: starts making notes and she starts writing in well, parts
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Speaker 1: of the diary are in what's called crypt hand. Now,
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Speaker 1: over the course of her life, I think one sixth
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Speaker 1: of the diary is in this crypt hand, which is
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Speaker 1: a combination of like Greek letters, zodiac symbols, numbers, you know,
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Speaker 1: dashes codes. And probably this was brought to her by
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Speaker 1: Elaine or they worked out together, because they used to
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Speaker 1: write letters in this coded language, and so they would
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Speaker 1: start writing to each other using this code. And Elaine
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Speaker 1: was already like Bilinguo, she already spoke several languages, and
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Speaker 1: Anne had a fascination with like Grecian history, especially, so
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Speaker 1: they made this little language together, probably assuming that other
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Speaker 1: people wouldn't be able to decipher it. But yeah, so
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Speaker 1: they start spending time together, and when they were in school,
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Speaker 1: they would have this relationship and things were going well,
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Speaker 1: like it was intense, like first loves are, like, it
15:20
Speaker 1: was all consuming, all fulfilling and that's where they had
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Speaker 1: their first you know experiences. So when they're not at school,
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Speaker 1: they're writing letters to one another, and the letters get intercepted,
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Speaker 1: and naturally it's believed that And is the perpetrator, like
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Speaker 1: she's the ringleader in this scenario, and and has to
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Speaker 1: leave the school like she's going to go. They're like
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Speaker 1: dumb with her, like no, off you go, bye bye.
15:50
Speaker 1: And it's after this that they start writing more carefully
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Speaker 1: because when they're sixteen, Eliza cum to visit Ann and
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Speaker 1: she stays for a few weeks, and after she leaves,
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Speaker 1: people are not happy because it's very apparent that the
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Speaker 1: two of them are having a relationship. And you know,
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Speaker 1: nineteenth century Britain, like we are still in the regency period.
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Speaker 1: One of the Georgias is on the throne. Of course
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Speaker 1: it is. There's so much, so many Georges. It's just
16:28
Speaker 1: there's too many at this point, but it's one of
16:30
Speaker 1: the Georgies, and it's it's not going well for any
16:36
Speaker 1: of the Georges. Frankly, the m no, it's not going
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Speaker 1: well for any of the Georges. I just remembered. But
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Speaker 1: we don't need to go into the Georgies right now.
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Speaker 1: So after spending a few weeks together and Eliza leaves,
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Speaker 1: they start this sort of promise that they're going to
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Speaker 1: spend their life together, that it's going to happen, that
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Speaker 1: they're going to live like not as man and wife,
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Speaker 1: but like his wife and wife. Like that's their plan
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Speaker 1: and that's their full intention, that's where they want to go,
17:07
Speaker 1: that's what they want to do. And Anne is promising
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Speaker 1: to lies a lot. Of course this is it wonderful definitely,
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Speaker 1: and their relationship gets discovered to the point where like
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Speaker 1: the code, the coding becomes just more intricate and more extreme.
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Speaker 1: And this is probably where Anne really starts focusing on
17:28
Speaker 1: writing her diary, like really logging everything to the extreme,
17:34
Speaker 1: so through real Liza and starts meeting other people in society.
17:40
Speaker 1: So she starts, you know, becoming connected to these people
17:46
Speaker 1: now and and lista I love and Lister for many reasons.
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Speaker 1: But put this, if she weren't a woman, she would
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Speaker 1: be a fuckball. Like I don't know how else to
18:01
Speaker 1: explain this to you. I know I said I support
18:05
Speaker 1: women's rights and that I also support women's wrong, but
18:07
Speaker 1: I mustar makes it hard. Sometimes I'm just saying.
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Speaker 3: She really does.
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Speaker 1: So she promises the lies that she's gonna be weather forever,
18:14
Speaker 1: like this is her all encompassing like love. It's a
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Speaker 1: whole new world, it's a whole thing, right, it's Disney
18:21
Speaker 1: movie soundtrack love. Right, But and starts getting a wee
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Speaker 1: bit restless and starts looking elsewhere. So when Anne was
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Speaker 1: shunned from the school, like she just couldn't go back anymore,
18:40
Speaker 1: and universities weren't really open for you know, women, she
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Speaker 1: sort of focused on her own studies. So she was
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Speaker 1: interested in like history and astronomy, languages like so much
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Speaker 1: like she she hyper fixated, you might say, and so
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Speaker 1: so she lusted after knowledge. But knowledge was not the
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Speaker 1: only thing she lusted after. That's hyn I'm talking about ladies,
19:10
Speaker 1: you see. Although she had promised herself to Eliza, and
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Speaker 1: not just because she thought she loved her, but because
19:20
Speaker 1: you've seen pride and prejudice, or at least you know
19:22
Speaker 1: of pride and prejudice and sense and sensibility and anything
19:25
Speaker 1: by Jane Austen, which is generally about women needing to
19:29
Speaker 1: marry up because they needed money, because women weren't their
19:33
Speaker 1: own person. Effectively, they were reliant on getting money from
19:38
Speaker 1: men or from yeah, effectively one way or the other
19:42
Speaker 1: from men, either from an estate or from an older
19:45
Speaker 1: brother or a father or a husband. They were relying
19:48
Speaker 1: on them to you know, survive because it was required.
19:53
Speaker 1: That's what they needed to do. And so Anne wanted
19:56
Speaker 1: to live her life, but she couldn't do that broke
19:59
Speaker 1: and she was you didn't inherit anything because she had
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Speaker 1: you know, brothers who were going to inherit everything, and
20:09
Speaker 1: if her aunt and uncle had any kids, like they
20:11
Speaker 1: were gonna have it. So there wasn't anything for her necessarily.
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Speaker 1: But Eliza, even though she was the illegitimate daughter of
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Speaker 1: the sergeant of William Rain, she was due to inherit
20:26
Speaker 1: like a decent chunk. And so she's thinking, okay, this
20:31
Speaker 1: is this is fair enough, she says, because this is
20:38
Speaker 1: a glorious inheritance. And because Eliza was you to get
20:43
Speaker 1: just so much dough that Ann would have been set
20:47
Speaker 1: so they could have easily been together, because I mean,
20:53
Speaker 1: say what you want. She was focused, you know, very focused.
20:59
Speaker 1: But yeah, she was looking at this. But then what
21:04
Speaker 1: happens is she starts meeting other women. So she is
21:09
Speaker 1: introduced to Isabella Norcliffe known as TIB and she meets
21:15
Speaker 1: her when she's about twenty, and they meet and they
21:20
Speaker 1: become lovers and friends. This isn't a u hol lesbian
21:25
Speaker 1: situation because because they're passionate, they have a very intense
21:29
Speaker 1: passionate affair. But you know, the stars that burn the
21:33
Speaker 1: brightest usually burn out the fastest.
21:37
Speaker 4: And Anne is slowly becoming aware that she's rising in
21:44
Speaker 4: society and as such, people's perception of her is changing.
21:52
Speaker 1: So she is more aware and more worried about what
21:56
Speaker 1: other people think of her, Like she didn't really think
21:59
Speaker 1: so much is she was younger, but as she's gotten older,
22:03
Speaker 1: she is very much thinking about, you know, others' perception
22:09
Speaker 1: of her socially, especially as she's starting to move up
22:13
Speaker 1: within the class system, which is weird because I know
22:17
Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, but if she's upper class, isn't she upperclass?
22:20
Speaker 1: The class system in the UK is really weird. It
22:22
Speaker 1: always has been, always byby probably, So yeah, she is
22:27
Speaker 1: rising up and she's being introduced to society and she's
22:30
Speaker 1: meaning all these people and Eliza is panicking because she
22:38
Speaker 1: doesn't understand. She wants to have the relationship. She wants
22:43
Speaker 1: this life with Anne, and she's writing these letters and
22:47
Speaker 1: she's panicking, and Anne's like, yeah, sure, absolutely definitely completely
22:52
Speaker 1: fob in her off every single time, and Eliza's starting
22:56
Speaker 1: to freak out, and situation is worsened when Eliza's sister
23:03
Speaker 1: Jane is pregnant. She shows up pregnant. We don't know why,
23:11
Speaker 1: we don't know how well, we know how, obviously, but
23:14
Speaker 1: we don't know if this is consensual or unconsensual. We
23:16
Speaker 1: don't know the reasoning behind the circumstances that created the pregnancy,
23:21
Speaker 1: you know, and as such, this is an illegitimate pregnancy.
23:26
Speaker 1: And this is nineteenth century England, so that is frowned upon.
23:32
Speaker 1: So this is scandal, and Amazon doesn't want to have
23:36
Speaker 1: to do with scandal, even though her very existence is
23:40
Speaker 1: seen as scandalous, you know what I mean. She actually
23:44
Speaker 1: called her lesbianism her oddity, and she studied books and
23:48
Speaker 1: researched like biology and everything because she was trying to
23:51
Speaker 1: figure out like why she was the way she was,
23:55
Speaker 1: you know, because she didn't realize that you were just
23:56
Speaker 1: born that way. And it's cool, you know, I mean,
23:59
Speaker 1: not to be an absolute fuck boy, but you know,
24:05
Speaker 1: to be a casanova, a don Juan, no, no Anne,
24:11
Speaker 1: no breaking hearts. It's not cool, but yeah, And so
24:19
Speaker 1: Anna is sort of moving away from that, and she
24:21
Speaker 1: starts seeing Isabella Norcliffe known as tib and she's.
24:28
Speaker 3: They're seeing each other.
24:29
Speaker 1: And they become livers obviously, as I said, and Eliza,
24:37
Speaker 1: it becomes very clear to her, she like hears through
24:40
Speaker 1: the grapevine that you know, it's hard not to hear,
24:43
Speaker 1: because of course she's the bloody talk of the town,
24:45
Speaker 1: isn't she That Anne is seeing other women, and that
24:48
Speaker 1: she's chasing after other women, and all of this really
24:53
Speaker 1: starts affecting Eliza to the point that when Anne turns
24:58
Speaker 1: twenty three, that Eliza gets committed to an asylum, like
25:05
Speaker 1: she goes mad. Like whether you know it was triggered
25:10
Speaker 1: by Anne or whether this was something that was already underlying,
25:14
Speaker 1: we don't know. But this situation, I think, with the
25:19
Speaker 1: social standing and everything that she already had, was kind
25:22
Speaker 1: of precarious to begin with. Shand's up. Shands up in
25:26
Speaker 1: the asylum and she's there for the next fifty ish
25:31
Speaker 1: years until Eliza dies in there in eighteen sixty. And
25:38
Speaker 1: on that delightful note, let's take a break with a
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27:15
Speaker 1: So when Anne is nineteen she meets tib Isabella Norcliffe,
27:21
Speaker 1: and you know, they hit it off like a house
27:23
Speaker 1: on fire. Isabella is confident. She's from she's a socialite,
27:29
Speaker 1: she's from that sort of well, the gentry. She's from
27:35
Speaker 1: the high class, and she's older and wiser, and An
27:41
Speaker 1: is fascinated by her, and she's attracted to her. And
27:46
Speaker 1: Isabella is just like wowed by Anne, and she hopes
27:52
Speaker 1: that they're going to become life partners, but Anne isn't
27:55
Speaker 1: feeling it. Like they stay friends throughout their lives and
27:59
Speaker 1: they you know, they they go back to each other
28:01
Speaker 1: and again, like they are, well, occasional lovers is the
28:06
Speaker 1: term that comes up more often, and so they stay connected,
28:12
Speaker 1: but they don't have any like long lasting romantic relationship
28:16
Speaker 1: with each other. And it's around about this time that
28:20
Speaker 1: Ann starts dressing in what is termed as a manly fashion. Now,
28:25
Speaker 1: when you hear masculine, you would assume like trousers and
28:30
Speaker 1: others such like clothing. But Anne wasn't wearing trowsers, she
28:36
Speaker 1: wasn't wearing men's clothing. She was wearing black, which is
28:40
Speaker 1: what men were riding like that was riding gear for men.
28:44
Speaker 1: But Anne was wearing sort of women's clothing, just without
28:50
Speaker 1: any sort of ornate details, without the extra fuss. Everything
28:55
Speaker 1: was I don't want to say slummed down, but it
28:58
Speaker 1: was stripped to still be you know, decent clothing of
29:03
Speaker 1: her status, but as plain and simple. And this is
29:10
Speaker 1: where it comes across as masculine. And it's round about
29:14
Speaker 1: this time when people start calling her gentleman Jack, which
29:18
Speaker 1: was like a jeer. They were making fun of her
29:20
Speaker 1: right and didn't really bother Anne too much. I think
29:25
Speaker 1: she was making a point because she was ready to
29:34
Speaker 1: to keep her claim in life, you know. So through Isabella,
29:41
Speaker 1: she meets one Marianna Belcome, and when I say she
29:48
Speaker 1: is head over heels, she is absolutely bloody hair over haels, right.
29:53
Speaker 1: And she meets her and they are just absorbed in
30:03
Speaker 1: each other. They have a passionate, wild affair and they
30:07
Speaker 1: are hoping to be together, like they plan to spend
30:13
Speaker 1: their lives together. And they spend time together to the
30:19
Speaker 1: point where they are caught in Marianna's family are becoming
30:25
Speaker 1: exceedingly aware of the situation and they are not happy
30:29
Speaker 1: about it at all. They are not happy about this
30:31
Speaker 1: relationship in any sense. And so when Marianna would go visiting.
30:41
Speaker 1: So sometimes she would stay with an answer with the
30:43
Speaker 1: house with Anne, and sometimes Anne would come and stay
30:48
Speaker 1: with Marianna in her family home. Because ladies did that,
30:51
Speaker 1: they would go visit instead. Would be a thing, right,
30:54
Speaker 1: And what they do is they arrange for Marianna to
30:59
Speaker 1: be home and for Anne not to be there, and
31:05
Speaker 1: they effectively secret her away and make her get married.
31:11
Speaker 1: They create an elopement. I mean, it's is it a
31:16
Speaker 1: forced wedding, Yes, it is, but the family sort of
31:22
Speaker 1: create the situation for Marianna to marry Charles Lawton, who
31:27
Speaker 1: is this rich as fuck dude. He's so he's rolling
31:31
Speaker 1: in the money, and so she marries him. But that
31:36
Speaker 1: doesn't stop them because Anne and Marianna they continue this
31:44
Speaker 1: relationship and they're doing it like in secret. They're like
31:47
Speaker 1: having sneaky lesbian sex, and they're doing it under the
31:52
Speaker 1: nose of the husband until he discovers them.
31:58
Speaker 3: The key.
32:00
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he catches them in the act
32:02
Speaker 1: or whether he reads a letter or something, or he
32:07
Speaker 1: finds out he uncovers like like Obi Wan Kenobi in
32:13
Speaker 1: the Attack of the Clone CV, it very slowly uncovers
32:16
Speaker 1: an incredibly simple mystery and he realizes his wife is
32:21
Speaker 1: having an affair with Anne Lister, and he just straight
32:26
Speaker 1: up banishes Anne from their home from seeing Marianna. Like
32:31
Speaker 1: he's just like nope, done done, adios or of war
32:36
Speaker 1: leave and Marianna she's actually unaware that Anne is throughout
32:43
Speaker 1: this time as well, like carrying on affairs with other women,
32:48
Speaker 1: like she doesn't know this is happening. See. The thing is,
32:55
Speaker 1: Mariana's husband is much older, so they thought what they
32:59
Speaker 1: could do was to have the secretly affair and he
33:02
Speaker 1: would eventually die and then she wouldn't hurt his money
33:06
Speaker 1: and the two of them would live together. Like that
33:08
Speaker 1: was their we plan right now. Unfortunately, with Charles finding
33:12
Speaker 1: out about you know this is her sister, hanky panky,
33:18
Speaker 1: not a lot was going to be going on then,
33:21
Speaker 1: you know, like put the kibosh on that. And Lister
33:24
Speaker 1: is like the George Wickham of riding in Yorkshire right
33:30
Speaker 1: Like It's it's shocking actually because she ends up just
33:39
Speaker 1: going out there and healing her broken heart by being
33:43
Speaker 1: again a regency fuck boy. Because out of all of
33:47
Speaker 1: the women she seduces, one of them is Marianna's sister.
33:51
Speaker 1: Now I feel like girl code should come and here
33:54
Speaker 1: somehow a wee bit like maybe, don't you know, shag
33:59
Speaker 1: your lover's sister. It feels wrong, like, don't do that.
34:06
Speaker 1: It's weird.
34:09
Speaker 3: Now.
34:10
Speaker 1: The funny thing is, I don't know what she expected
34:12
Speaker 1: to happen with Marianna at the best of time. Is
34:14
Speaker 1: because Marianna was embarrassed to be seen out and about
34:18
Speaker 1: with Anne because she dressed all in black, because she
34:22
Speaker 1: dressed like quote unquote a man, right, so she was
34:26
Speaker 1: not going to be going there. I don't think. I
34:30
Speaker 1: think it was more the idea of it was lovely,
34:34
Speaker 1: but the practicality of it not so much. So this
34:40
Speaker 1: is sort of a good news bad news situation because
34:42
Speaker 1: at this point all of her brothers have passed away,
34:48
Speaker 1: all of Anne's brothers, leaving her the next heir to
34:53
Speaker 1: the estate the ship did in estate that her uncle owns,
34:58
Speaker 1: and she is real really starting to think more carefully
35:02
Speaker 1: about her social standing and where she's at. But of
35:07
Speaker 1: course that doesn't stop her from wanting to travel. So
35:12
Speaker 1: she'd already visited Paris like once before with her aunt
35:16
Speaker 1: and then another time with Marianna, and she had ended
35:19
Speaker 1: up deciding, you know, I'm sick of this right now.
35:22
Speaker 1: I can't be dealing with Marianna and her bullshit and
35:25
Speaker 1: her husband and whatever. And she ends up traveling to Paris,
35:31
Speaker 1: and she goes there and she meets a widow who
35:35
Speaker 1: she spends so much time with that other people start noticing.
35:40
Speaker 1: So she's just forth right and stepping out there. And
35:46
Speaker 1: she meets the very lady like and pretty Maria Barlow
35:55
Speaker 1: Maria Maria. So Maria is a widow, but she doesn't
35:58
Speaker 1: have a title, she doesn't have social standing. She's sort
36:01
Speaker 1: of below what gentleman Jack would typically go for. But
36:07
Speaker 1: she's like, you know what, I'm gonna have some of this.
36:09
Speaker 1: But Maria is she's because she doesn't come from the
36:15
Speaker 1: same level of society. She doesn't have the same I
36:20
Speaker 1: want to say patience, So she's kind of tempestuous. I'm
36:25
Speaker 1: going to go with tempestuous. So she has a temper
36:30
Speaker 1: on her and Ann she's not as enamored with her
36:34
Speaker 1: as she was with like Marianna, and so she doesn't
36:37
Speaker 1: really take to this so well. And other people are
36:39
Speaker 1: kind of commenting on how much time that she's spending
36:43
Speaker 1: with her, you know, partially because she's a widow, and
36:47
Speaker 1: partially because she's not of the right class. Now, there's
36:51
Speaker 1: an entry from Anne's diary where she goes and visits
36:54
Speaker 1: like the rooms of three separate women on the same night,
36:59
Speaker 1: and she's like trying to get the attention of one
37:01
Speaker 1: but not the other, and she has these quote unquote
37:05
Speaker 1: famous kisses, and she's trying to get the famous kisses
37:09
Speaker 1: but they're just not happening. So yeah, that's one of
37:18
Speaker 1: her wonderful entries. I think I've got one hair. Actually,
37:21
Speaker 1: let me read it to you. This is one of
37:23
Speaker 1: the tamer ones. So you're welcome. I'm not going.
37:26
Speaker 3: Phillographic with you.
37:29
Speaker 1: I had kissed and pressed missus Barlow on my knee
37:32
Speaker 1: till I had a complete fit of passion my knees
37:36
Speaker 1: and thigh shick, my praything and everything told her what
37:41
Speaker 1: was the matter? Like, that's fairly time. You're welcome. So
37:48
Speaker 1: she was in Paris and she's having this love affair
37:51
Speaker 1: I would say torrid, but yeah, maybe it's more tepid
37:54
Speaker 1: at this point, and she's kind of done and she
37:59
Speaker 1: wants even more freedom than she had before, and so
38:04
Speaker 1: she decides to continue traveling. Like initially she calls it
38:10
Speaker 1: her wild but delightful wanderings. And I think basically from
38:18
Speaker 1: like the twenties and the eighteen twenties to eighteen thirties,
38:21
Speaker 1: she spends a lot of her time traveling because she's
38:23
Speaker 1: not really keen on Halifax, to be honest, Yorkshire is
38:26
Speaker 1: just not doing it for her, and so she's just going.
38:30
Speaker 1: I think the fact that she's limited in her options
38:34
Speaker 1: when it comes to being home, whereas travel gives her
38:37
Speaker 1: that freedom, you know. So after her affair with Maria Barlow,
38:43
Speaker 1: she ends up coming back home and again not super
38:47
Speaker 1: keen on being there, and she decides to go for
38:50
Speaker 1: a tour of you know, northern Italy and Switzerland, and
38:57
Speaker 1: she comes back for a bit, and then she ends
38:59
Speaker 1: up going to Scotland with Sabella MacLean and spend some
39:03
Speaker 1: time with her there and a few other people. And
39:08
Speaker 1: she comes back in eighteen twenty nine and she's there
39:13
Speaker 1: for webit again Cabby Bollard, and instead ends up heading
39:18
Speaker 1: out to Paris. So she goes to Paris and Belgium
39:23
Speaker 1: and Germany, well the German States parts of Germany, it
39:27
Speaker 1: hasn't quite become Germany yet, and then she heads so
39:36
Speaker 1: she decides she wants to go to the Pyrenees, the
39:39
Speaker 1: bloody Pyrenees. Right, No, let's go to relax by the seaside. No, no,
39:45
Speaker 1: I want to climb a fucking mountain. Of course you do,
39:47
Speaker 1: of course you do. A man no challenge for this.
39:51
Speaker 1: So she has a guide who's a smuggler, right, and
39:57
Speaker 1: the and they climb the britsh de Roeland Monte Pridido.
40:06
Speaker 1: And so she goes there and she climbs it, and
40:11
Speaker 1: the smuggler effectively signs a thing saying that she's the
40:16
Speaker 1: first person to climb it. And then I think this
40:20
Speaker 1: rich dude afterwards decides he's going to climb it after her,
40:23
Speaker 1: and then he says he's the first person to climate
40:25
Speaker 1: and it becomes a whole thing because, of course the
40:28
Speaker 1: man has to take credit for what the woman did,
40:31
Speaker 1: except that being said, she also did take credit for
40:34
Speaker 1: the smuggler who had climbed it before she did.
40:39
Speaker 3: Now she.
40:42
Speaker 1: Inherits Shibden in the eighteen twenties, right, but like her
40:49
Speaker 1: father and her aunt still have like control over the
40:52
Speaker 1: estate technically, which she has, like she has moved up
40:57
Speaker 1: the line of succession she is due to inherit. She's
41:00
Speaker 1: trying to decide what she's going to do so and
41:06
Speaker 1: she is due to inherit the estate. We know that,
41:09
Speaker 1: like she's do to inherit, like all the money that
41:12
Speaker 1: goes with it. And she's getting ready to rub shoulders
41:15
Speaker 1: with the high flutin fancy gentry. And she meets just
41:19
Speaker 1: the person to help her do it, so ver Hobart.
41:24
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call her vere in this voice, because what
41:27
Speaker 1: a marler options Via is her name vir Anyway, she
41:31
Speaker 1: was the sister of the fifth Earl of buckingham Shire,
41:33
Speaker 1: and she had every connection, like every single one. She
41:36
Speaker 1: had fingers in many pies. And at this point, Anne
41:42
Speaker 1: is learning business because she's learning because she needs to
41:44
Speaker 1: know how to ruin the estate because she doesn't have
41:47
Speaker 1: to rely on anybody. She wants to be, you know,
41:51
Speaker 1: self assured. She wants to be able to run things
41:54
Speaker 1: by herself and not reliant on anybody. But what she
41:57
Speaker 1: wants is those societal connections. And Anne is just I
42:03
Speaker 1: don't say, like obsessed, but she's like well into vere
42:08
Speaker 1: But ver has many many admirers and Anne doesn't really
42:16
Speaker 1: have options. But Vera has a soft spot for her
42:20
Speaker 1: like and she asks Anne to accompany her on a
42:28
Speaker 1: trip to Hastings because Anne again is spending a lot
42:32
Speaker 1: of time traveling so she can avoid being at home,
42:36
Speaker 1: and Anne was hoping to win her heart. Unfortunately, Ver
42:44
Speaker 1: you know, was very much falling within the parameter of
42:47
Speaker 1: society at the time, and decided to marry an officer instead. However,
42:55
Speaker 1: as Anne Lester had been reintroduced to Anne Walker had
43:00
Speaker 1: inherited so much money, like she was Hella rich and
43:08
Speaker 1: and Lister had burnt through so much money traveling and
43:12
Speaker 1: going about and trying to invest in businesses, and she
43:16
Speaker 1: ended up broke. Basically, we're not broke broke like and
43:21
Speaker 1: when rich people say they're poor, they're never usually that poor.
43:26
Speaker 1: So she ends up moving back to Shipden and she
43:28
Speaker 1: starts really focusing on regenerating it, rejuvenating it. She puts
43:32
Speaker 1: like all this money into it, and she just slowly
43:39
Speaker 1: but surely makes it somewhere where she actually wants to be.
43:43
Speaker 1: And she's getting refurbishments done. And it's during this time
43:48
Speaker 1: where like she's negotiating with like Coleman and trying to
43:54
Speaker 1: get stuff done, you know, And she meets re meets
43:58
Speaker 1: and Walker, who she met like fifteen years previously, and
44:03
Speaker 1: between the two of them, with their joint estates and
44:08
Speaker 1: joint money, they start spending a little bit more time
44:14
Speaker 1: together like while they're together, like, she doesn't quite have
44:21
Speaker 1: her move into Shibden Hall, but she has a private
44:25
Speaker 1: cottage built on her estate called Moss House. And basically,
44:33
Speaker 1: after a couple of weeks of meeting together proper U
44:35
Speaker 1: haul this is the U haul lesbians, right, they end
44:37
Speaker 1: up moving in and they end up shacking up in
44:41
Speaker 1: the shack or shagging up in the shack like they
44:44
Speaker 1: are just fully on board like and after two months
44:55
Speaker 1: of them being together of their secret clandestine liaisons, they
45:04
Speaker 1: decide that they're going to move in to Shipton properly
45:09
Speaker 1: and live together like as a married couple. But Anne
45:17
Speaker 1: Walker wasn't super into the idea because again Regency Britain
45:26
Speaker 1: and moving in with a woman wasn't really going to
45:30
Speaker 1: be the easiest of decisions. So she asks a Leicester
45:35
Speaker 1: for six months, six months to think about it, to
45:39
Speaker 1: work over, and Lister goes, yep, sure, wait six months,
45:44
Speaker 1: and after those six months she's like, I'm still not sure,
45:48
Speaker 1: so gentlemen, Jack clearly not too happy about this situation,
45:53
Speaker 1: and so she goes off one another week trip, and
45:57
Speaker 1: so she goes to France and Denmar and she's gone
46:03
Speaker 1: Norway too. She's gone about living her best life to
46:07
Speaker 1: try and distract her from everything. But when she comes back,
46:16
Speaker 1: who is waiting for her at home other than Anne Walker,
46:20
Speaker 1: who by the way, turned down some dude's proposal. Like
46:26
Speaker 1: this other fella came wanted to marry this very rich
46:31
Speaker 1: titled woman, and she said no because she wanted to
46:36
Speaker 1: be with Anne. And so Anne, at this point is
46:39
Speaker 1: forty two, and she's like, yes, absolutely brilliant. So being
46:45
Speaker 1: wealthy women in society, the two of them rewrite their
46:48
Speaker 1: wills to effectively. So what happens to one or one
46:52
Speaker 1: happens to the other, like their beneficiaries of each other's
46:56
Speaker 1: well like over this time as well, like throughout this
47:01
Speaker 1: specled was Marianna whoevery now and again would pop in
47:07
Speaker 1: and they would have an illicit affair and she would
47:09
Speaker 1: pop back out again. And this kind of happened here
47:14
Speaker 1: and there throughout Annister's life. But when she married, symbolically
47:19
Speaker 1: she had a Boston wedding really where she married and Walker,
47:23
Speaker 1: where they said little vows to each other in the
47:25
Speaker 1: church and they took communion and Bob's runkle finish your
47:33
Speaker 1: aunt married? Is it legal? Eh? Doesn't matter. So they
47:42
Speaker 1: are for all intense purposes married, and Marianna sends a
47:47
Speaker 1: letter and she's like, oh, at least be happy, and
47:50
Speaker 1: I's like, cool, we'll do. Thanks bye, and they decide
47:54
Speaker 1: to honeymoon in France and Switzerland. What I always say, fonts,
48:01
Speaker 1: it's always always the weird thing. So they end up
48:03
Speaker 1: honeymooning and they start heading about and they come back
48:10
Speaker 1: to Yorkshire after spending some time away, and well, shockingly enough,
48:17
Speaker 1: they're being made fun of one way or the other,
48:21
Speaker 1: including the rumor mill. Like it gets to the point
48:25
Speaker 1: that people are sending anonymous letters like they're like addressed
48:35
Speaker 1: to Captain Lister basically making fun of Anne. And in
48:40
Speaker 1: the newspaper somebody puts in an advertisement, right, they put
48:46
Speaker 1: in an announcement of the union of Captain Tom Lister
48:50
Speaker 1: of shbden All to miss an Walker. I can't understand
48:54
Speaker 1: it's the past, but you've got a bloody loaded time
48:56
Speaker 1: on your hands, pal, like slow news day. There are
49:01
Speaker 1: things happening, I'm fairly certain, and you're just like, oh,
49:05
Speaker 1: you know what, we'll just do a fake marriage announcement
49:08
Speaker 1: to make fun of a happy couple. I say happy.
49:13
Speaker 1: It wasn't all plain sailing, because Anne Walker, she was
49:18
Speaker 1: anxious and shy, and she was easily stressed, right, and
49:22
Speaker 1: she suffered from depressive moods, and and Lister is just
49:30
Speaker 1: like focusing on like renovations and living her best life
49:34
Speaker 1: and and yeah, yeah, the amount of money being chilled
49:39
Speaker 1: out and this was just stressing and Walker the fuck out.
49:44
Speaker 1: And it got to the point that Lister starts assuming
49:53
Speaker 1: that her wife is faking illnesses just to avoid having
49:58
Speaker 1: to go places, and so gentlemen, Jack often traveled alone
50:04
Speaker 1: out adventuring, seeing the world, so on and so forth. However,
50:11
Speaker 1: she does manage convince and Walker to come on a
50:15
Speaker 1: trip with her to Russia. So they leave for Russia
50:20
Speaker 1: in June eighteen thirty nine. They think this is going
50:26
Speaker 1: to be super swell, really fun time. They go, the
50:32
Speaker 1: two of them two sevenths because of course they're rich
50:35
Speaker 1: titled ladies. You can't be going anywhere without your servants.
50:40
Speaker 1: And they travel in their own carriage. They're going through France,
50:44
Speaker 1: through Denmark, Sweden, and Russia, and they end up in
50:52
Speaker 1: Saint Petersburg in September, and in October they're in Moscow.
50:58
Speaker 1: Now this is this is wintertime in Russia. Why would
51:03
Speaker 1: you want to be in Russia in winter? Why? Like,
51:08
Speaker 1: it's cold enough there, and do you think to go
51:11
Speaker 1: in winter is a good time? And I know you've
51:15
Speaker 1: read books, I know you've looked at them up, have
51:19
Speaker 1: basic orienteering knowledge, and you think this is a good idea.
51:23
Speaker 1: No mmm mmm. So they end up leaving Moscow with
51:29
Speaker 1: a very reluctant analk er who just does not enjoy
51:31
Speaker 1: the travel. She's not keen on it. She'd rather sit
51:34
Speaker 1: at home with her ovaltine and away book and a
51:36
Speaker 1: jigsaw and chill out, which I understand, I really do.
51:41
Speaker 3: So they.
51:46
Speaker 1: They managed to leave in February with a new Russian
51:53
Speaker 1: carriage and lovely toasty, cozy, warm clothing because again winter
51:59
Speaker 1: and Russia. Yeah, so they are going down along the
52:05
Speaker 1: frozen Volga River. Took her causes again not really optimum travel,
52:14
Speaker 1: because this is a lot of Europeans tended to avoid
52:18
Speaker 1: this area mainly because you know, cold as fuck, but
52:25
Speaker 1: you know it was bad enough to go on your own.
52:31
Speaker 1: But these are women effectively traveling alone and it got
52:34
Speaker 1: to the point where they actually had to have military
52:37
Speaker 1: escorts through some of it. And nan Walker she had
52:41
Speaker 1: wanted to go home after probably the first leg of
52:44
Speaker 1: the journey, let alone after Moscow. But she wanted to
52:48
Speaker 1: go home, but and Lester wanted to keep traveling, and
52:52
Speaker 1: so she relented because you know, of course she did.
52:59
Speaker 1: And so they end up in Georgia the country, not
53:06
Speaker 1: the state. I've had a habit of just explaining, like
53:11
Speaker 1: if I'm talking about Georgia the state or Georgia the country,
53:15
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like a related I just confirm that sometimes. So, yeah,
53:19
Speaker 1: they end up in Georgia. And Anne's last diary entry
53:26
Speaker 1: is on the eleventh of August eighteen forty. She makes
53:32
Speaker 1: some observations about the village but our tea about time
53:37
Speaker 1: for bed, and it's the last thing she ever writes.
53:42
Speaker 1: So she ends up getting either bitten or stung, like
53:49
Speaker 1: there's an insect involvement somehow, So she's either stung or
53:53
Speaker 1: bitten and this ends up triggering a fever. And six
54:00
Speaker 1: weeks later, on the twenty second of September eighteen forty
54:06
Speaker 1: and Lister passes away at the age of forty nine,
54:11
Speaker 1: and her wife, Anna Walker, finally gets to return home
54:16
Speaker 1: with Anne, and it is not an easy journey. It's long.
54:28
Speaker 1: It's eight months, eight months of travel back to Halifax
54:37
Speaker 1: and Ann Lister is buried in Halifax Minister on the
54:44
Speaker 1: twenty ninth of April eighteen forty one, and up until
54:50
Speaker 1: like the year two thousand, like her grave had sort
54:56
Speaker 1: of disappeared. Her tombstone was covered with a floor from
54:59
Speaker 1: like the eighteen seventies or something, and it gets discovered
55:05
Speaker 1: in like the millennium. Now Anne Lester's will it had
55:12
Speaker 1: given a life interest to Anne Walker, so she was
55:16
Speaker 1: always going to be funded and cared for. But they
55:20
Speaker 1: state itself was going to go to Lister's relatives, and
55:26
Speaker 1: Anne Walker had decided that she was going to Love
55:29
Speaker 1: and Shipping. No, she was going to take care of
55:30
Speaker 1: it and she was gonna, you know, keep it in
55:33
Speaker 1: the glory to which Anne had wanted. Unfortunately, her mental
55:37
Speaker 1: health took a turn, and unlike Eliza, she wasn't committed
55:42
Speaker 1: to an asylum. She was put into private houses and
55:47
Speaker 1: she went to live with like her sister and her
55:51
Speaker 1: brother in law back to Shepton House for a little while,
55:55
Speaker 1: and Shepton House Shipping Hall and eventually back to our
56:01
Speaker 1: childhood home in Lightcliffe. Now, like I said in the beginning,
56:06
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why we know so much about
56:07
Speaker 1: ant Lister's life is because Antlister kept a very very
56:14
Speaker 1: detailed diary, like there's almost five million words in it,
56:18
Speaker 1: Like it would take nine years, I think to read
56:23
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And when like her great great great
56:27
Speaker 1: great great grand nephew or whatever ended up finding John Lister,
56:33
Speaker 1: when he ended up finding the diaries and eventually decoding them.
56:37
Speaker 1: I just love the fact that everyone thought it was
56:38
Speaker 1: like a big hoax because they were like, oh, no,
56:41
Speaker 1: lesbians aren't real. But yeah, and whether when they were
56:47
Speaker 1: first translated, they were published without any of the naughty
56:52
Speaker 1: bits in and then other researchers came forward and started
56:58
Speaker 1: editing it and put some of the healthy stuff back in.
57:02
Speaker 1: But you know, there is like teams. I think I
57:05
Speaker 1: think it needs to be separated into teams to finally
57:08
Speaker 1: get the entire diary like transcribed, because otherwise, yeah, we're
57:13
Speaker 1: not we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna let
57:15
Speaker 1: I do that. That's stupid. But anyway, that is the
57:19
Speaker 1: tale of ant Lester Gentleman Jack the first modern lesbian.
57:28
Speaker 1: If you liked my retailing of this tale, feel free
57:32
Speaker 1: to rate and review five stars. Dinging thing. I've been
57:38
Speaker 1: chewing over my words. I hope it's not too bad
57:40
Speaker 1: this episode because my mouth is having issues again. It's
57:47
Speaker 1: not fun, but we will get over it together. But
57:52
Speaker 1: I shall actually not forget recommendation time, nor well, I
57:59
Speaker 1: forget at the What am I doing?
58:04
Speaker 3: Ah?
58:04
Speaker 1: Yes, I own the socials following the socials link the
58:07
Speaker 1: description down below, but we should also I'm not tired,
58:10
Speaker 1: I'm very tired, but we should also recommendation time.
58:14
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm going to recommend the League of Lady
58:18
Speaker 3: Poisoners for reading. I could help myself for.
58:27
Speaker 1: Watching, like I don't watch new things. I'm really bad
58:31
Speaker 1: for it. But you should watch only Murders of the Building.
58:35
Speaker 1: I'm no one fairly watching season three and Paul Rod
58:41
Speaker 1: his character makes me crunch so much. I just that
58:46
Speaker 1: makes me uncomfortable, but it's good. It's good to feel uncomfortable.
58:49
Speaker 1: We have to get used to it. And for listening,
58:53
Speaker 1: oh no, there's a decision. You should listen to the
58:56
Speaker 1: Date Night podcast with Blowinderburg. I promised her I would
59:01
Speaker 1: always refer to her as blind like in this voice
59:04
Speaker 1: blind Burka, And so you should absolutely listen to Date Night.
59:07
Speaker 1: It's fabulous and yes, with that, I shall beat you.
59:13
Speaker 1: Good night, Adios au revoir, what is there? My friends?
59:17
Speaker 1: Bye bye,