Latest / You Call That Radio? / 'The Taylor Swift Conspiracy' w/ Lou McLean

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'The Taylor Swift Conspiracy' w/ Lou McLean · You Call That Radio?

• 0:23
  Speaker A: As you call that radio. Afternoon, everyone. Today we are speaking with east coast singer songwriter Lou McClain. We're going to be discussing her new music video, Desire Lines, which we'll be playing a little bit, the upcoming album produced by Carl Easton. And we're going to talk a wee bit about Taylor Swift, because I know that Taylor Swift's the biggest pop star in the universe probably, and I'm ashamed to say I don't really know much about her really. And I've been aware of some controversy bubbling away online as well. So I'm just curious to know about the lore of Taylor as well. And we've got a self confessed Swift day in the house. Who's also an amazing singer, songwriter, it's Lou McLean. How you doing?
• 1:17
  Speaker B: Hi. I'm all right, thanks. How are you?
• 1:20
  Speaker A: I'm good, I'm good and I'm having. I'm just having a coffee. I'm in a nice quiet place. So I'm happy, I'm happy. Busy summer. What about yourself? Have you been. You've been busy with the album? You've been documenting your album really well also.
• 1:38
  Speaker B: Thank you. Cheers. I like, managed to record my debut album just at the start of the summer and then I've sort of been spending the rest of that time making loads of different artwork and stuff to go with it and just plotting and planning some exciting things for next year when the album actually comes out. And yeah, I'm dead excited. Very busy, but excited. And I'm kind of actually relieved that it's getting a bit to the shorter, shorter days time of the year so that I can have a bit of a rest before it all kicks off again. But yeah, I've been loving it.
• 2:15
  Speaker A: Have you got a date in mind for the album launch?
• 2:20
  Speaker B: I'm hoping for February. That's when I would like to have it out. I've got a couple more singles to come that I want to release before it comes out. And then, yeah, I'm going to be doing quite a different sort of launch thing. I've not really announced it yet, but it really fits well with the theme of the album. So, yeah, I'm excited for it and.
• 2:46
  Speaker A: It'S well done for the. The patience to actually finish an album and then just be sitting on it. I've always struggled with that.
• 2:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny.
• 2:55
  Speaker A: What I need to do is I need to put a deadline like I think for the album or album this year. We, we just announced the launch party and then that basically told it was Hamish that was working on the album it basically just gave us, right, we have to December to finish this album. And I think we ended up finishing the end of January. We cut it. It was cut. We cut it very fine. So how do you do that? How do you. How do you be patient and not just release things?
• 3:21
  Speaker B: Well, for me, I initially wanted to have it out in October because it was. I'd finished the recording and everything, all the mixing, mastering and that was done by July and I didn't have artwork or that ready. But I was like, right, I'm going to just get all this out for October. But I think because of the way that streaming and everything works now and the way that artists actually like are under so much pressure to be constantly putting stuff out all the time, I just had a big think with myself and I was like, what is, what is the point in like rushing it? Why not just like drip it out over time and not like drive yourself crazy trying to meet this imaginary deadline? That was how I set it up. But in my heart it was like. Cuz I'm going to be doing this little sort of workshop tour thing in February. I was like, I kind of need to have it all sorted by then because there's no point in going and talking about the album and not having an album to sell. So that was my big. That was my big motivation really. But yeah, you could sit on it forever. This is the other hang mark. Like I'm just going off on a tangent, but you don't feel like you could just like keep working on songs and working on them and working on them. You have to have a point that you're like, no, that's it, finished. Do you know what I mean? You could pick it apart for months.
• 4:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was Adam Holmes and Mog that was talking to once and I think they were quoting some famous writer. So correct me if you've heard it before, but there's no such song. Songs are never finished, they're only abandoned. And yes, because you can end up just making a song worse by just putting, you know, spending more time on it. I've done that before.
• 5:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, me too.
• 5:07
  Speaker A: This is so that's actually really good. That just needs a couple of little bits fixed and then you just ruin it. So yeah, it's about finding the right balance. But I think, I think as an artist you should just follow your instinct and if it feels ready, it feels ready. And you obviously you're working with the amazing Carl Easton. Is that for the full album as well?
• 5:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, that was for the Full thing. So I basically wrote most of the songs. Well, I started and finished versions of like seven of the songs when I was at uni, like doing my masters. And then I wrote the other three kind of after I'd finished and thought that they sort of fitted in with what I'd made. So everything was written and sort of finished. And then I brought Carla in in the sort of recording phase and she just helped me, really helped me actually shape the sounds and sort of think about. I don't know because I always. I mean I've done a few co writes but I tend to write on my own and just kind of do my own thing. So it was really good to have somebody in who sort of understood what my references were and then brought me like new things to listen to and kind of new ideas to, to kind of put into the album. So yeah, it was really like a good collaboration to have.
• 6:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, amazing. Color's brilliant. And yeah, loads of experiences. It's crazy. She's 20 years since her first, her first band as well. Which is wild.
• 6:38
  Speaker B: Doesn'T it?
• 6:40
  Speaker A: Definitely. I mean, I don't even know what we. Because we did our 10 year anniversary right before lockdown before. Just before we knew lockdown was happening. I think it was December, December before that. So in my head I still think that we've been about for 10 years, but it's probably nearer 17 now or something as well. 25, 20. Yeah. We were going for the first gig though because I think the first year or two, I didn't count that. So we were celebrating 10 years from our first gig because we didn't, we were just, we were like a MySpace band. You're probably too young.
• 7:12
  Speaker B: No, don't, don't let me feel you. I was well, well aware of my space.
• 7:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, it was, it feels like a simpler time and it's. Yeah, obviously everybody moved to the other social media platforms because that's where the people were but then they just changed the rules and now, you know, it's very difficult to reach your audience. You know, you can have 7, 000 fans and it's even a popular post, only 1% of them. So they want you to pay money and. Yeah, it's just, it's. How are you? Who, how have you been finding the promotional aspect? Because your new music video, which looks amazing by the way, that's, that's a couple of days old. So how, how are you finding what it's like to promote as a DIY artist in the current climate?
• 8:00
  Speaker B: I think with the socials it feels. The way that I've sort of come around to is I made the video with my friend Alex, who's like a really good filmmaker and is looking actually to do more collaborations with musicians. Just putting that out there. But yeah, I think working with her, having a laugh while I was making the things and then like, really, because I had this extra time that I was under pressure, I sort of have been making ideas for posts and sort of thinking about it as part of the. The creative process, if you like. Like I make a lot of collages and stuff for my artwork. Like that's part of what I do. So then I just started thinking about the socials and that sort of.
• 8:54
  Speaker A: Sorry, this is the. That's. This is having WhatsApp on your computer.
• 9:00
  Speaker B: I know it's a nightmare.
• 9:01
  Speaker A: I've just. I've turned the. I've closed the page now, so hopefully it doesn't do that again. Sorry, Danny.
• 9:08
  Speaker C: Danny.
• 9:09
  Speaker A: Danny's watches the show. Danny should be well, but we didn't give people much notice. Sorry for that interruption. Please continue.
• 9:16
  Speaker B: No, you're fine. I just thinking about it as part of the. The fun, you know, like making the arts. Like, I'm thinking about my posts about as if they're like something creative to do. That's been all right. I think doing the whole chart and the process of making the album, like doing a week by week, that's been really fun as well because I'm sort of finding a way. Basically it was just find a way that doesn't make me fucking depressed. Basically. I'm like having to feed the algorithm. Like you're under so much pressure and like you're just saying, like, you know, if I put a post out, I've got like what, over a thousand followers on my Instagram and it'll maybe a really, really Good post. Like 400 people will see it. And that's like, you know, that's massive. Whereas.
• 10:07
  Speaker A: And I think what I always find weird is the analytics. It always seems to be 50 is. Well for us anyway, it's been 50 non followers.
• 10:15
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 10:17
  Speaker A: Which is always a good thing for some occasions because obviously you're wanting to reach new people. But for me, like, especially in the. Probably for yourself as well, when you've just when you try to promote your new single, you would like to reach your. Your established fan base first. At least let everyone know that you've got a single, we've got a new album. And I've been, I've been going. I've been really ramping up the promo because I found out that I really found this market quite well is sharing things from cross posting from Facebook to Instagram because then basically you're getting the likes of both Facebook and Instagram and the views all count as one thing, which has been brilliant because you feel twice as popular, but it's just the same people really. But, but the bad thing is it's not been working this week. So it's been really good. Free call that radio as well. You know, we maybe put a wee clip of a, a live session or, or something and then it goes on to the Instagram. But for some reason it's not worked this week and I don't know why. I've been trapped and a bureaucratic nightmare of going back and forth. So, so that's been, that's been a bit rubbish. But what about the, the vlogging thing? So you've been doing the. Because, because obviously I don't know. Was that, is that part of, is that part of the project? Was that to document what it is you're doing and stuff?
• 11:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think like it started off like when obviously like I went and done my masters and as part of the, the kind of wanky like student thing that you end up being obsessed with is like I learned a lot about like my own process of writing and how interesting I find everybody's songwriting process because, you know, I do like songwriting teaching and stuff as well. So I find it really interesting to find out about other people's creative processes. Like I could sit and talk about like how do you come up with songs, how do you finish your songs? Like I love all of that. So I was kind of thinking like, if I love talking about that, I bet you there's other people that like to hear about it and talk about it. So I'm just trying to sort of. It's partly because I think it's interesting to see how actually albums are made because as well so many people, like when I found out, because I got Creative Scotland funding, so many people were like, oh wow, that's amazing. Like, so will it be out soon? Do you know? And they have this idea that you write the album and then the next week you go in and you record that and then the week after your vinyl's ready to go. And I don't think people even talking to people about how you record stuff. Like a lot of people, this is obviously non musicians, but a lot of folk were like, oh yeah. So you and the band will just sit there and record it and then That's. That's ready to go sort of thing. Like, they don't even know about, like, anyway. So I just thought it was interesting for people to actually see what it takes to fully try, like, make an album, how long it takes and how many people are actually involved in it as well. I just thought it was really interesting, so that was part of it. But then looking back on it, it's also really funny because I can look back at weeks where I was like, oh, like that was a hard week. Or like that was an amazing memory or. Yeah, it's quite cool to look back on. I've not done it for about a month now, so I need to catch up on that today.
• 13:39
  Speaker A: Well, you were. You were on a roll. You were on a roll. It was good while it lasted and yeah, it's cool. It's. It's good. I'm always interested as well. I mean, practically that's what we've been doing the show for the last five years or six years or whatever. Been. It's just asking, you know, I really. I'm really interested in the creative process and how people do it. And it just seems to be. Nobody really. What's cool about it is nobody ever gives you really a straight answer. It seems like some sort of magic or otherly thing that happens to people when they're writing a song. So tell it, tell us. Tell us about your process. How's it went? Well, let's just focus. In fact, do you know what we'll do? We'll play a little clip of desire Lines, if that's okay, while you've gathered your thoughts and just for people that maybe aren't aware. So introduce this song and then we'll come back and we're going to talk about the. The writing process and Taylor Swift and things like that.
• 14:33
  Speaker B: Cool. All right, so this is my new single, Desire Lines. It's from my album, which will be coming out in February. And the song is sort of about going back into dating. And the video is sort of based on dating app tropes from modern times. But I wanted to set it in the 90s because I felt that was quite aesthetic y and it fit the song. So this is it.
• 14:56
  Speaker C: I want to get to know ya not just in the physical sense Take time to show ya I'm done keeping up the pretense you know I spent too long pretending I was strong Acting and bothered and hoping that you'd play along inside a mine Twist it and shine this is the heat we write songs about desire lines I no games I want to make desire Take time get to the ground Every step that I Brings me closer to my feet I don't care, I'm feeling fine Cause.
• 15:40
  Speaker B: It takes time to fall Desire land.
• 15:48
  Speaker C: I wanna get to know yeah and it's deeper than I thought Take time to show yeah the vulnerability I fall I know I spent too long pretending I was strong Acting unbothered and hoping that you play alone Inside and out Twist it and shout this is the heat we write songs about Desire, life, desire no games I want to make matter Desire, life take time, get into the gr. Every step that I take brings me closer to my fate I. I don't care, I'm feeling fine Claws that takes time to.
• 16:34
  Speaker B: Desire L. It's been a.
• 16:39
  Speaker C: While since I felt this way.
• 16:44
  Speaker B: Ready.
• 16:44
  Speaker C: And open and prepared to stay if I knew Got to get down and pray that I could walk the line and put your hand in my desire line no games only make me take time into the ground Every step that I take Brings me closer to my faith I don't care, I'm feeling fine Cause it takes time to farm Desire, life no games I want to make desire feel I take time getting to the ground Every step that I take brings me closer to my feet I'm not scared, I'm feeling fine Cuz it takes time to fall.
• 17:49
  Speaker B: Desire, life.
• 17:54
  Speaker A: Stuff. Okay. The sirelings.
• 17:59
  Speaker B: That's it. Hey, Amazing.
• 18:02
  Speaker A: And the video. So sorry, Alex is looking for people who watch. Alex name again.
• 18:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: If anyone's waiting there to build to make a music video, she's on Instagram.
• 18:14
  Speaker B: As at that woman. So I've tagged her in all my stuff. So if you go on my Instagram, you'll find her. But yeah, she's amazing. She does a banker film company is called Carnal Productions, so you can find her there. But yeah, she's a really great artist and filmmaker and quite often. She doesn't really often do music videos, but she's wanting to start doing that a bit more. So that's cool.
• 18:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, Amazing. And the. The single.
• 18:44
  Speaker B: What.
• 18:45
  Speaker A: How do you pick? How do you pick? Because this is the. This is the first single woman, right? Lead single.
• 18:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, I. This is the first single. So that's a great question. It was kind of hard to decide because you'll understand when you hear the album. Like, each song is quite different from the last. Like, they're all very much thematically linked. But I quite like to. When I'm writing, like, I quite like to follow what the song wants to do because I listen to quite a variety of music. They sort of like. There's a pop ballad that's kind of Taylor Swifty on it. There's like a sort of R and B slow jam on it. But most of them are sort of in this sort of indie rock, sort of a bit nostalgic sounding sort of era. But I chose Desire Lines, I think because it's the. The lightest song on the album and it's probably the one that links them together sonically, I would say the best. But yeah, I. That was. That was why also, I just like it. It's a banger.
• 19:51
  Speaker A: So it was the last time I think I spoke to you. You. Because obviously I've only ever seen you perform as a solo artist and you. You told me that you've got a band there and I need to see the band and I've still sadly not made that happen yet. Is the. Are you going to be performing this album with the band or were they involved in the recording process or have you just moved on to something else or what's the story?
• 20:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, just moved on from. From the band sort of before the album got recorded. So I've used like session folk to record and the last time I performed I used back and track. So they recorded the recorded album and then I've got a couple of acoustic gigs booked for over the winter. But I'd like to do it with a full band. I just don't have a band at the moment, so I. I'm not really sure what we're going to do next, but I'm excited for it anyway and it's exciting to get back to my acoustic stuff as well because I do enjoy that kind of audience connection and the.
• 20:55
  Speaker A: The show, the workshop tour thing. That's interesting. What's. What. Can you explain that a bit more? Where are you going and what's happening?
• 21:03
  Speaker B: I. So this is unannounced. I accidentally said that.
• 21:06
  Speaker A: Exclusive.
• 21:07
  Speaker B: I don't mind shading. You got. Get an exclusive. Another. Another exclusive for you. Yeah, I've basically decided the theme. The theme of the album sort of comes from the work that I did for my masters, which was looking at basically women's working songs from the 1800s. Right. That's where we started and then that's where we've ended up. Desire Lines. But it was inspired by like working class people and like women in particular that I'm interested in. Used to write songs all the time. Like that's what they did while they were working. They would just make up songs and sing together. And have, like, choirs. So basically the theme of the workshops is I'm going to travel all about Scotland and do workshops and try and just get people who don't usually write songs to write. That's what I want to do. So, yeah, I'm looking forward.
• 22:01
  Speaker A: Have you got venues in mind?
• 22:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, I've reached out to a few people. I know that I'm definitely going to be going back to my hometown of Kirkcubri, which is going to be Raj. So we're doing one there, doing one up in Inverness and in Glasgow and Edinburgh. But I'm looking forward to. I think I want to extend the tour. I mean, I'll see how. See if people are actually into it. I hope they will be. I'm sure they will be. So if more people want to come, then I'm happy to go to different places. Anybody's watching, invite me. I'll come and write songs with you.
• 22:34
  Speaker A: It's great.
• 22:34
  Speaker C: The. The.
• 22:36
  Speaker A: One of the first workshops ever did was at the Stove. It was a. An amazing woman. Syndico rip. She was fantastic. And she got us to. It was me and Bram Texture. We went to the Place Dumfries and. And then we just. It was. It was amazing. It was like. It was a people of all ages and stuff, and people would, you know, maybe just like, quite fancy being a poet. Maybe they've been writing lyrics in the house themselves and. But then we basically just sort of worked with them a wee bit during the day and then they played a gig and all the friends and family came out that night. It was. It was amazing. It was such a. Because it was like. I think everybody was on stage for the first ever time.
• 23:20
  Speaker B: Well, that's it. I love that, though. And like, I do whenever I do a songwriting workshop or, you know, have like a wee songwriting meeting, I just love hearing what people want to write about, like, what's important to them. And it just. It's just so rewarding. Hey, like, when you finish the two hours and somebody who's maybe never been brave enough to share something, they'll, like, read out lyrics that they've written, written, or, you know, someday will actually perform the song that they've made or a different song that they've made. You know, I just love it so much. So it was a way to sort of bring the whole thing together is to go and do these workshops and try and get everybody into songwriting because. As well. Right. I'll just go off on another tangent and this will be relevant when we come to Taylor. But, like, the whole industry of music and songwriting, like, has just been taken over by capitalism. Right. And like the way that everybody used to have access to writing songs and didn't have any fear about singing in front of people or, you know, writing a daft we song with our pals. Whereas nowadays we're sort of taught to believe that it's just only a few select people that can do it and that we need to pay for it, like, you know what I mean? I just think that's right. So I want to kind of bring songwriting back to the people and I.
• 24:43
  Speaker A: Suppose back to that video killed the radio star in anyway, social media as well. So it's like in the past you would write your song, but it's like now the pressure's on to not only make the song, but make it visually pleasing and you're up against people with budgets and fancy cameras and makeup artists or whatever.
• 25:06
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 25:08
  Speaker A: It's. Yeah, it's. It was good, but we'll go. We'll just go to Taylor next. But just on that, because obviously you're doing the workshops. I don't know if you've seen this. You probably haven't watched this pattern as well like that. Why is it that somebody who's writing their first ever poem or their first ever song, they've always got one absolute banger of a sentence. Well, how did you come up with that one? That is. I know, it's like something about, I don't know, just going. They're going with the flow and they've just like created almost a perfect phrase.
• 25:43
  Speaker B: I know. I don't know what that is. And that's why, honestly, I could sit and I read about this and think about this all the time, and I'm like, is it just that that idea or that all of that energy and knowledge has just been sitting there and then you've, like, allowed them to just turn on the tap and then the amazing phrase just comes out because it's always been sitting in there. That's what I think about sometimes. I'm like, that's really. I think that's why I like doing these classes, actually, is because when you get wee moments like that and then you can actually say to the person, like, I wish I'd wrote that. Like, that's incredible. And then they're like, so buzzing about that. And you can just encourage them on their way to write more stuff. But, yeah, it's interesting that there was somebody actually, and she's an amazing songwriter as well, Elsie McDonald. But she came to a workshop of mine last year that was sort of based on this women's work stuff and she came up with a line hands too soft to play working songs. Right. And I was just like, fuck you, Elsie. I've been working on this idea for like a year and that's like the most incredible lyric that anyone could come up with. I was so jealous, but. But proud of her and like, she ended up finishing that song and. Yeah, it's just nice. I like hanging out with songwriters and musicians, as you'll know as. Yeah, it's very rewarding, isn't it?
• 27:11
  Speaker A: Absolutely. And so let's get to the. Let's get to the Taylor Swift then. So before we. Before we go. Because obviously there's been some mixed reviews about the new album, but let's go back to start. So. Because I remember you commented on a thing. Well, I don't know if you commented. I commented your thing or you commented. I think it's like. Because the. The idea that there's guys, usually, obviously guys, it's always going to be guys being edgy by not knowing Taylor Swift. And I was just like, no, I genuinely don't. I'm not that familiar. Look, I've. I've not heard the Justin Bieber song in my entire life, as far as I'm aware.
• 27:47
  Speaker B: Maybe not, eh?
• 27:48
  Speaker A: Well, I don't know. It's. No, you've got to remember that, you know, I. I grew up with MTV and all that and you couldn't get away from when. When the biggest pop stars in the world were involved. You know, I used to hate Take that and Backstreet Boys. Probably jealousy because all the lassies fancy them. I don't know. But it wasn't for me. I just didn't like it. It didn't connect to me, it wasn't aimed at me. I wasn't a target audience, so I never really. But you couldn't get away. You couldn't get away from Britney Spears or anything. Like these things were just everywhere you worked, everywhere you went. But now, obviously, probably from ipod onwards or MP3s onwards, everyone's kind of went to their own be niche bubbles. Radios in general is terrible. So, you know, if I try and avoid that. I don't watch any of the music channels after is. I don't know if. I mean, MTV has been a reality TV show even if it still exists for. For this. So I think it's quite easy to ignore it. But obviously Taylor Swift is the biggest pop star in the universe. I'm aware of that. So I Must have walked in a supermarket. I must know a couple of the songs. I must know. So I have. I did do a wee bit of research today to listen to the new Taylor Swift. But let's go back first before we get the new stuff. Tell me as a Swifty. Let's go. How'd you get into Taylor Swift's music? What does it mean to you? And, yeah, so we can compare it with the new stuff. What? Tell us the lore of Taylor. What is Taylor?
• 29:14
  Speaker B: It's interesting, right, because I wouldn't say, like, I'm actually a massive Swift day. So I. I started liking Taylor Swift probably about. I would say probably about eight years ago or maybe eight or nine years ago. My girlfriend at the time had the 1989 album on vinyl and just like played it all the time. And I really loved that. It's really like glossy, synthy pop kind of records. And I love pop music anyway, like, I will hold my hands up and say that I love it.
• 29:48
  Speaker A: I've always got to clarify as well that all the pop music that I thought was rubbish when I was a kid, now when it comes on the radio, it's a welcome break to some of the horrific pop music that exists now. I sound like an old person, but that is true. I'm like, you know, you just hear this really weird auto tune push, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, what's that? That's a banger and it's fucking Gary Bal. So, yeah, and I don't like pop. I think also a good song's a good song. So I'm not a pop snob at all. That's why I want to learn. I want to learn the detail.
• 30:24
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I think, like. So I got into her there, so that's. I think that's her maybe our fifth album possibly. See, this is it. I don't know all the. All the stats, but from that point I got into her. She released an album during lockdown called Folklore, which is like where the guy from the National, I think, and that. Jack Antonoff, and it's like a sort of folk. Folk pop album. And that was a game changer for me because I was like, this is actually incredible writing, incredible production and a really well thought out.
• 31:06
  Speaker A: I just can't. You can't read behind folk music. You can't. There's no. It's either a good song or it's not. There's no. There's no hiding.
• 31:15
  Speaker B: Exactly. And then, yeah, it's funny because the last, like three albums that she's brought out. So this one Tortured Poets and one called Midnights as well. I hated Midnights when it first came out. I really didn't rate it at all. And then after about a week, I was like, this is a banging. Love it. Tortured Poets is quite iffy. And then this one I don't like. But I think what's important, I think what I like about her is she's quite deep into like crafting not just a story in the song, but she has like all of this lore and all of these little Easter eggs within her songs that are like. You can really, like. It's like a world that she's created for our fans where you can literally, like. There'll be references in songs or in music videos that are from like five albums back that she sort of put in. So it keeps you engaged in it. And yeah, also, like, she does just write really catchy pop music, which I love. So there's that. And I think as well, although the songs are sort of pop all the way through, she does experiment a little bit with genre, which is what I aspire to do as an artist as well. It's like, you don't want to. For me anyway, like, because I listen to so many different types of music. I don't just want to make something that's sort of country inspired. I don't want to just make a disco album. I don't want to just make a pot. Like a punk album or like a Riot Girl inspired album. Like, I want to try and mix it all together. And I think she does that pretty well. But yeah, I can't. I'm feeling. It's been hard to justify this one. I'm not gonna lie.
• 33:06
  Speaker A: So why is it? Because I think everybody I know is. They said fans. It doesn't seem to be why. You know, why. What was wrong with. I listened to a bit earlier on, but once again, I'm not. I've got nothing really to compare it with.
• 33:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would say it's not.
• 33:23
  Speaker A: It's not for me. It's not. I listened to the. The one that's got an amazing video. It's just. I think it's recent single. It's got a fantastic video, but it's.
• 33:33
  Speaker B: Not funny, I think.
• 33:35
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 33:36
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker A: I just. I'm just not gonna. I'm never gonna really like that. I don't think maybe I need to listen to it more, but it's just. No, it's no funny. I don't know. I like my pop music to have a Bit of, I don't know, emotion behind that, but I feeling or be completely daft and camp and stupid.
• 33:57
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 33:57
  Speaker A: And it feels like it doesn't really feel it detects either of those boxes. It's kind of somewhere in the mundane middle. But that's just. I've heard it once. Please don't attack me Swifties. Listen, I know this is just my honest opinion.
• 34:11
  Speaker B: We're scared of the Swifties. No, I think for me the reason why it didn't hit is because lyrically it's. It's really quite garbage. And I like. I mean for me music has lyrics and melody like that is. That's where I like to sit anyway. I mean I've got my basic chords that I'll put together. But even on my album, like I've gone in with the structure of the song, the lyrics, the chords, the melody and everybody's kind of built on top of that. And that has been a really fun process. And that's how I like writing. Like that's just how I do it. But anyway, with this. The lyrics are just quite shy actually. And a lot of it is very cringe and a lot of people are kind of coming out and saying that. But I think what's happened. I've been reflecting that even since I made that video. I'm like thinking about it more deeply because I made a little rant video and I think actually it's because she feels very out of touch now with what is actually happening in the world. I think people are very politically aware, politically engaged, particularly with what's happening in America at the moment. Like the rise of fascism. Did I say it? Like we're watching that happen and then it's like it feels a little bit tone deaf for an artist to come out with this album. And although. Which is shallow as. It's shallow as fuck and it's not. It's shallow just for people that don't know.
• 35:48
  Speaker A: For people that don't know. So from my understanding it's. There's a, you know, like song songs. She's girl. Was it girl boss. Too close to the sun.
• 35:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. A girl bus. Too close to the sun.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: And that was obviously that. And I think that was stolen from a comedian who was a student when she made that. That comment seven years ago or something. And then obviously there's a song called Wood which I listen to that today as well, which is basically. It's just kind of like talking well endowed boyfriend for the full song, I think the right way to put it.
• 36:21
  Speaker B: But yeah, I Mean, the whole theme of the album is that she's really happy. Well, there's a couple of themes that she's really happy. Great. Love that for you, Taylor. Must be nice to be a billionaire in this economy. Second of all, that she's getting married and couldn't be happier to be in a kind of heteronormative relationship. And yeah, the third one is that she doesn't really care if she like who she hangs out with. She, like, you know, all of her Friends are Cancelled as one of the. As like one of the songs that she's got. And it's like talking about how she loves hanging out with people that are cancelled, but that's in this economy as well. It's kind of shit when you know that she hangs about with people who support Donald Trump and maga. Yeah.
• 37:12
  Speaker A: So for me, yeah, no, I'm interested in this bit because I seen somebody posting today something about maga, Taylor's MAGA or something, and I had. I had not heard this before because if the way I remember it was, did she not get like 30, 000 people to. To register to vote for the Democrats against Trump?
• 37:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:38
  Speaker A: So what is going on here? Am I missing. Did something happen in between then? Or am I. I don't know what I'm missing.
• 37:44
  Speaker B: You're missing out a set. But yeah, you're right to be like whiplash, because I think that's what all of our fans are like.
• 37:52
  Speaker A: Because the MAGA crowd, as far as I'm aware, seem to hear like they've got an unnatural.
• 37:59
  Speaker B: So right. In 2020, Taylor brought out a documentary called Miss Americana. And the documentary was all about her coming out against Republicans and kind of coming out for lgbt. Like it's an allyship. Allyship. There's rumors that Taylor Swift's secretly gay, but we'll not get into the gaylor lore because that's for. That could be a whole lot.
• 38:28
  Speaker A: It gets famous enough that they have.
• 38:30
  Speaker B: These things, but there's great. There's great Reddit threads on that if anyone's interested. But yeah, she came out as. As a. As a Democrat, as someone who wanted equal rights, someone who was passionate about women's rights and basically says, you know, I want to be on the right side of history. So everyone has this idea of her, even, you know, themes in our albums, particularly in, like, folklore, and she talks about equality in midnights. Actually, I wanted to bring this up that is relevant, don't worry. But in one of the songs in Midnight, she says one of the lyrics Says, all they keep asking me is if I'm going to be your bride. The only kind of girl they see is a one night or a wife. And all this 1950s shit they want from me, I don't want it. So basically, it's like talking about the pressure to kind of conform and marry as a woman. But then it's like she goes this full 180 into. One of the lyrics in the new album is, I was lying when I said I didn't want to get married. And then writes a song about how great her boyfriend's cock is and how he's, like, saved her from this terrible cat lady life when, like, a year and a half ago, she was proud of her cat lady status. So it's all a bit suspicious. Anyway, she started hanging it when she started going out with her boyfriend, Travis Kelsey, who's like a famous football player player. One of the guys that's on his.
• 40:01
  Speaker A: Team.
• 40:03
  Speaker B: Is called Patrick Mahomes, and he's like, proper, like, far right Maga. And she hangs out with his wife, Brittany. Brittany. And they hang out together a lot and go to all these different kind of MAGA events. So.
• 40:25
  Speaker A: Can we define MAGA event? Is it like. Like ufc? I'll be talking ufc. Maga. Are we talking Trump? Trump's fascist speeches? Maga.
• 40:35
  Speaker B: Ah, right. So she was at. It's like a country music event that was, yeah, pretty much fully attended by MAGA people. And then what else was the other one? It's like she was photographed with these podcasters, like male podcasters that are quite like far right and sort of misogynist in the themes that they talk about. So it's like, I wouldn't. She's not wearing a red hat. Okay. Like, let's put it this way. But the Internet is talking and has caught her, like, hanging out with these people that she used to.
• 41:09
  Speaker A: Which podcasters do we know?
• 41:11
  Speaker B: I can't remember what they're called, but I could look up for you. But, yeah, it just. It feels really strange to see this sort of flat.
• 41:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's strange because it's. Because the thing is, is that she has. The thing is, like, pop stars don't need to be political. Of course not. I would prefer the we. I would prefer the we. But she has been political.
• 41:40
  Speaker B: Right.
• 41:40
  Speaker A: The problem is that once you, you know, once you start talking about politics in your music or even in your online, you can't really just sort of put your fingers in your ears and not. And just pretend everything's all right. And obviously Everything's fine for her. She has a billionaire, and she's probably hanging a bit with people who are like, you know. You know, Kamala Harris is a communist, which is not right. It's the same people that think Keir Starmer's doing a bad job because he's too far left. And unfortunately.
• 42:17
  Speaker B: So far left, he's gone back to the right again.
• 42:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, unfortunately, people do believe that stuff because it's just a. You know, it was. It was only in power for a month, and people. The media started running with that so they could get reforming because it's like, we tried the left thing, and it's like, no, not in my lifetime.
• 42:37
  Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. 100. Like, I agree with you there, but you're right. Like, the point is that I've actually been reckoning with this a little bit myself. I went to a thing with my friend the other night, and I was like, I've sort of realized that I'm holding the Taylor Swifts and Sabrina Carpenters of the world up to this really high standard and being really critical of them as women. And I need to do, like, a little bit more of exploring about that myself and why that is. But, like, the point is that she is the one who has said. Has kind of put herself in this political space to say, I want to fight for what's right. And so you can't really back out of that and not expect some criticism. And also, she's entitled to do and say and make whatever she wants. But, yeah, we're also allowed to criticize that and kind of pick holes in it a little bit if we want to.
• 43:36
  Speaker A: That is. So is it. Do you think it's a Sabrina Carpenter effect? Because obviously she Even. I know who Sabrina is. She. That she's a gear. Any sort of the sort of run she lyrics side of things. Do you think Taylor is trying to maybe stay relevant and keep up with her peers by maybe singing about that stuff? And maybe she wants. And she wants to maybe. And obviously talk about. But then obviously, she's. Obviously. She seems very happy with her husband. So she's wanting to talk about her sex life with her husband rather than Sabrina way.
• 44:23
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 44:24
  Speaker B: Right. So my first impression of listening to that song Wood, which is the Notorious Penis song, was that the Penis song that it's such. It honestly feels like a Sabrina Carpenter song. It sounds like a Sabrina Carpenter song. It's got that same sort of intonation that she even does in her kind of vocal delivery, that same sort of like, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Kind of innuendo in the lyrics. And also even the same sort of, I don't know, like, musical. I mean, it's not the same era, but it feels quite similar to the way that she makes her music. And Sabrina Carpenter duets with Taylor on the last track of the album as well. So it does feel very influenced by, I think, the new kind of generation of pop girls. There's also. I mean, I really like Chapel Rowan and she uses this. You know, she talks about sex a lot in her songs, but to me it feels authentic, I think, as well, because she's a lesbian. Like, she's a queer artist. She's. It's really quite different. It's quite unusual to hear those kind of sexy songs, I guess you could call them. And I like that, like. And it brings this kind of new. Yeah, like a sort of new way of exploring that kind of genre, I suppose, of pop. And. Yeah, I think maybe. Maybe Taylor does feel some pressure to go with the crowd a little bit, whereas before she maybe hasn't. But I don't really understand why that would be.
• 46:11
  Speaker A: Obviously another one that I'm aware of as well. So I've got my finger on the post today, but that. Yes, that song was everywhere. This is the p. The Pink Pony Club.
• 46:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, Pink Pony Club.
• 46:25
  Speaker A: Pink Pony Club. Look at me. Yeah, I know that that song was everywhere. I couldn't get away from that one. I don't know. I don't know. That's everywhere. But to me, maybe I'm wrong, but to me it felt like it was, yeah. Gay, gay bar. Gay bar friendly music which is kind of like, you know, dancing the table, be proud. And. Yeah, that's what it is. I've always. I've always found the. The pop music. I mean, obviously you're an artist, you can say what you like. I mean, I'm not for censorship or anything like that, but I've always found it a little bit weird. Music that's targeted at kids with so much innuendo. This. But this is not a new thing. This has been happening since. Since. Since music began, really.
• 47:07
  Speaker B: Since.
• 47:08
  Speaker A: Since people realized that they could target music, young people. Yeah, I find it just to finish that point. So I suppose that the surprise is that you would expect Taylor to come out with maybe not a political album, maybe more a maturer album or rather than going down this road.
• 47:30
  Speaker B: I don't know. And then it also, you know, it makes me feel silly even saying it out loud because it's like, who the hell am I? I'm sure she'll be gutted to know that I'm not following what she's doing with her artistic process. And who are we to say, like, what you should be writing an album about, I think, where she can do what she wants. Right. And I mean, did I expect her to come out with a political album? No, I didn't. But I feel that when you're in such a position of power as an artist and when you have such influence. Like, you brought up the point earlier when she posted on her Instagram for people to register to vote. It was 65,000 people that signed up, like, within a day of her posting that on Instagram. So she has a massive influence over young people, over their fans.
• 48:18
  Speaker A: And I just feel Tradwife Coded was a good phrase you used.
• 48:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So that's another thing. This is where I start to get my tinfoil hat on. Right. So I think there's been such a trend recently in pop stars diving more into that sexualized lyricism and themes, but also into this really sort of traditional, like, man. It's like, sort of like, man infantilizing men's behavior. Right. So Sabrina Carpenter does this a lot. She did it with Man Child. And it's sort of like these messages and these lyrics are about accepting the bare minimum from a man or feeling lucky that you've got a man in your life.
• 49:10
  Speaker A: I've heard the song. I've heard of the song Man Child.
• 49:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 49:14
  Speaker A: I was just. I just assumed that that was a dis on an ex or something. So it's not. It's about accepting the bare minimum. Could you. Could you give me an example of that? Because I just have not heard the song. I just about.
• 49:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, when I'm talking about Manchild, I'm talking. It's basically just saying that. Well, she says, like, oh, I like my men incompetent.
• 49:37
  Speaker A: She didn't say that. Is that the vibe? She doesn't actually say, I like my men incompetent.
• 49:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I like my men all incompetent. Yeah. And her new song, I think. I can't remember what it's called, but basically she's like, talking about getting wet, and she's like, oh, I get wet when he does the dishes, and, like, tidies up and stuff like that. And I'm just like, girl, what the fuck are you even talking about? Like, it feels crazy to me because I'm sitting here, like, having just done this massive project about, like, women's labor and, like, women's equality. So I'm obviously Looking at it through this lens of kind of understanding a bit more about that. But I also. Hank Taylor, coming out with this kind of. It sort of promotes marriage, right? It promotes this sort of heteronormative lifestyle. There's other examples of it as well. Like Rage just brought out a new song called Where Is My Husband? There's Lola Young when she brought out one thing, like very hyper sexualized and hyper sexualized video as well.
• 50:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was. That was quite a bizarre move, I thought, because obviously I thought it was a real shift. Messi. Messi was the biggest song of the year last year. Do you know what I mean? And I remember seeing that going from quite sort of humble beginnings and just instantly going, oh, that's going to be if there's any justice. And it was a hit. So it just seemed really weird to just suddenly just do that. I find that quite surprising. Once again, do what you want as well. But just like, whoa, that's quite mad. Before I read it. Tiffany, I think we've got a. Swifty would like to retort. Tiffany, I'm going to read your comment in a second. Just before I forget, the Sabrina Carpenter man's best friend thing. Yeah, No, I don't. I've seen the COVID obviously, but what is. Was that not just. Was that a publicity stunt or has there been more?
• 51:43
  Speaker B: Well, there's the whole. There's so many different. I mean, I was even at a women's, like, network thing the other week where we spoke about that for an hour. Like, everyone loves talking about all this stuff and trying to pick it apart. But from my point of view, I think whether it's intentional or not, the image did spring up. Depictions of domestic abuse. Right. Whether she meant it that way or not, whether she's into bdsm, whatever it did. And I think there was a lot of women's groups who kind of used that as a jumping off point to talk about kind of real issues that are happening in our society.
• 52:25
  Speaker A: Well, that's a good thing.
• 52:26
  Speaker B: That's a good thing. Yeah.
• 52:29
  Speaker A: Was that maybe deliberate or was it just to be that cover just got everybody talking about it?
• 52:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, it did. And it was funny because, again, like, for part of the research for, like, making my album, I was looking at all these old images of, like, adverts from, like, the 1950s and 1960s that were really misogynistic and really quite shocking to see now. And those were so similar to the. The same image that she had used for her album. So it was obvious where she got the Inspiration from. And she's quite open about, you know, look into the 1950s for.
• 53:08
  Speaker A: Sabrina has got that. She's got. She has got that. I've seen some of these comments and say she looks like the woman in the cartoons that the. The wolf would whistle at.
• 53:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 53:19
  Speaker A: It's almost like the car, you know, like the. I don't know.
• 53:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, or like a. Yeah, like a board housewife from like a 1950s film. Or a fembot. Sometimes I think she looks like a fembot, you know, from Austin Power. But anyway, right, so those are. But anyway, when I'm talking about being trad. Wife. Covid. Covid.
• 53:41
  Speaker C: Covid.
• 53:42
  Speaker B: Covid. That's because I've got a cold and I'm like, oh, fuck have I got Covid? But I don't think I do anyway, when I'm talking about that. It's fine for women to be empowered and do whatever they want and put whatever image they want out, but you've got to remember that a lot of people are very easily influenced and we can't deny the context that. That art lives in, which is there is, you know, there's a femicide, there's an emergency of violence against women in the uk. Don't know if anybody knows that, but that was announced by the government, like, since the pandemic, like, the rates of violence against women have gone up to higher than they've been for, like since the 70s, I think. And. And also, you know, we've got what's happening in America where they're like literally going full Nazi over there and trying to, you know, get rid of birth control for women. Now they're trying to classify, like, the pill as the same as abortions, so the women aren't allowed to have access to it. But. So that's that. I think that's why I get annoyed about. I get ticked off about it because I'm just like, girls, come on now, are you even talking about this? Nah. But I feel you've got a responsibility as an artist to kind of talk about these things, or at least I think so.
• 55:00
  Speaker A: I would probably say that Sabrina's got less of a responsibility because from just my. From my lens, because I'm not sure, because I just. She's not tried to be polite. I mean, it's more like. Yeah, but if you think about putting Madonna fits in all of this, because obviously Madonna was. Was really good at pulling these levers and starting these conversations. And, you know, back in the day, she did some stuff that. That upset Both sides, like upset the. The conservative, the family values, but also upset the feminist movement as well. They're just upsetting everybody. And then selling millions of records in the process.
• 55:40
  Speaker B: Totally. It's so interesting because one of my pals is really like, is loving the new Taylor album. And we've had some really good, like, robust, challenging chats about it. And she brought up Madonna and she was like, they said the same thing about Madonna, that she's, you know, selling out her other women and, you know, selling herself on her body and whatever. And it's so funny because I don't view it like that at all. Like, I look back on her stuff and see her expressing her kind of sexuality. If you like her femininity in this way as really empowering, it feels authentic. But then am I just looking back on it as someone who wasn't there experiencing it at the time? And it's an interesting one. I've actually got. I'm going to read it on the train today. Like, I've got an academic paper that's all about that, about Madonna. And like, is Madonna anti feminist?
• 56:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to gauge that because we were younger and obviously Madonna's. Now the controversy is long gone. Everyone accepts Madonna as one of the greatest pop stars of all time. So. But at the time it was more risky because she wasn't. She wasn't totally established because I think obviously she had hits in the eight. You know, she had hats. But there's a big difference between being a pop star with hats and then becoming like one of the greatest songwriters or pop singers of all time. So. Yeah, I think so while we look at it. Definitely. Well, I mean, I don't. With Wilson being a carpenter even last the pace. I don't know. I think Chapel. Ron will definitely. It will probably stay in. That will always be popular. And I think Taylor Swift has lasted so long that Taylor Swift's here forever whether you like it or not. Sorry.
• 57:36
  Speaker B: I think she's going to quit and become a housewife.
• 57:38
  Speaker A: A fradwick. She's going to just become a housewife. Well, she's got. She's got the billions, she's got the private jets. As people do lose touch with reality, it's very.
• 57:49
  Speaker B: I think that's. That's a massive part of it.
• 57:52
  Speaker A: How do you. She's just hanging about with millionaires and billionaires and it's. What is it that there's a good phrase. You are the. You are the component of the five people. You spend the most Time with.
• 58:05
  Speaker B: That's interesting. So.
• 58:09
  Speaker A: If you're gonna put me five billionaires that also lean to the right. She won't turn totally right wing. But they're having different conversations. So she's just talking to them and. Yeah. And also. Hold on. Tiffany. Sorry. Tiffany's been commenting and Tiffany agrees with you about. Agrees me about. She looks like a. A fanboy 100 and we don't need a whole album of Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince. Sorry, I don't know what that means.
• 58:49
  Speaker B: That's a. It's a love song that she wrote for her. One of her exes on Lover album. Which gets a lot of hate. But I actually really like Lover. It's very top.
• 58:59
  Speaker A: So Tiffany doesn't disagree with you on. So if you're American, you know someone who's a maga. You can't just cut these people out of your life. That's an unfair thing to say. And she is terrified she's going to be the target of a terror attack or shooting. I don't blame her for being quiet about it. The president himself has targeted her. She is vulnerable. Something imagine she's just scared.
• 59:22
  Speaker B: I think we. We could see that. But then the President is now singing her praises since this albums came out. Which I also thought was really interesting.
• 59:29
  Speaker A: That is very interesting.
• 59:31
  Speaker B: Has said that he really likes Taylor and she's got good songs. Good songs.
• 59:41
  Speaker A: Donald Trump likes Taylor Swift now. Yeah. That's weird.
• 59:44
  Speaker B: So it's kind of weird that it sort of shifted like that. But then it's like, is it because now she's sort of playing by their rules. Like she is shutting up and not saying anything. And also it's like. Well, maybe she is scared. But I mean everybody's scared.
• 59:59
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker B: Like I'm a bit scared of what's happening across there.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker A: Everybody. It should be his coming soon to the UK if it's the same. The same. The same people that are funding. They funded the Trump and are funding the same thing to happen in the uk. So we should be scared. We should be very aware.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker B: Exactly. I was like we've got about 18 months I reckon so you better get your house in order.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker B: Started chatting about it right now.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker A: The Green Party's doing not bad. It's good to see the leaders. Actually made some really good points. Seems a little bit less scared than anything else has been on. But. And in your party hell. Please get your together guys. Because that is an embarrassing start. I did a gig recording last month and I feel like. And it just felt he seemed Sound enough. And I was like, this could be good. And then everyone signed up and then there's a fallout straight away and you're just, oh, here we go again. The left eating itself, as always.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker B: It's the same, isn't it? It's like they've, like they've done a very good job and sort of trying to separate people on the left and try. And one thing that I really hate is, even though I see why people do it, is like a lot of the times it's like there's too much accusing people of stuff. It's like witch trials in a weird way where people are pointing this like, that's racist, like, that's homophobic. That's this or that. It's like you need to actually have conversations with people to explain to them why they've done something that isn't quite right.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker A: I'm from a small town originally and, you know, there's the people, people my friends and stuff, they don't. They're not. They can't keep up to date with university language all the time. It doesn't mean that there's a hateful bone in the body. It's just words change and sometimes they just change a bit too fast for people to keep up with. But yeah, there's a difference between. There's an ex. There's ignorance as an excuse, I'm afraid, for people that don't live online, perpetually online, and they've never been to university and they may just live in a. A place that, that isn't up to date sort of thing, but there's no excuse for hate. And I think sometimes that's get. Everything gets a bit mixed up sometimes. Yeah. And then basically what everyone should be getting together and, you know, everybody's. Everybody's in danger from the rise of fascism and it's just. And it's all just so billionaires don't have to pay some taxes and they're just blatantly obvious.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker B: But, but how come, like, this is the thing that I don't understand. Like, how, how are people still falling for the same old story of like, oh, the immigrants are coming, or now like the new version of that, which is like trans people are coming to, like, attack you. It's like, that's not what's happening at all. Like, it's just crazy that people still fall for this condition. That's what I wanted to say as well. Sorry about my trad life pattern is that we know that pop music is really influential, as is marketing. So is it that These, like large record companies are investing in artists who are pushing that message. Is it to condition us to go into this more like Republican or conservative way of life, like into marriage, into thinking about having babies instead of like, say, I don't know, listening to an album that's about like not doing that, you know? Yeah. Is it just another way to control us and make us, like be really good worker bees and keep like breeding workers for these capitalists that want to destroy everything?
• 1:03:55
  Speaker A: And meanwhile, the hip hop community is. There's been loads of conspiracy theories, some, some proving, some not about sort of the alternative thing. And that's, you know, advertising violence and drug dealing to the young usual, usually black urban communities in America and, you know, almost like selling the dream that selling drugs will can. You can make money off it.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker A: And all it does is causes absolute misery and gets people killed or in jail and basically enslaved in some sort of way. So, yeah, I think there is, there is. I mean, nobody. You're not going to get on. You're not going to get on Radio 1 with an alternative message. I can't believe there's one exception to know was Kneecap. Somehow I've won Kneecap since way before. Way, way before locked in and stuff. And when they. They had get your Brits out and stuff and nearly booked him for a gig in Glasgow and when they started getting read BBC Radio, I think Radio one or six, or maybe at least six music, I was like, this is. But I can't believe this is happening because I remember growing up in the 90s when it was like even Irish, certain people, if they weren't on the British side there were blurbed out and their voice was pitched down so that they seemed evil.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker A: So they kind of. They. They sneak through the cracks somehow and they are absolutely smashing it all around the world.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker B: I know, it's wild to see that, isn't it? I mean even. Yeah, like you say, like even the accent would have got them absolutely nowhere. Like.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, and Bob Villen. Then they accidentally. They were too busy worried about Glass, they forgot to censor Bob Villain and now he's doing really well off the back of that as well. But in general that there, I can actually name two. I can't think of anybody else, correct me if I'm wrong. Is that anybody else with a. A really political message that's gone through to a lesser extent, sleeve of mods. But I feel like that's more. I feel like Stephen Moyes were more. And they've obviously they've had A really bad fallout where. Because of the whole Palestine flag incident, that didn't really serve them really well. They didn't really want to get involved in all of that. So I think. I think the argument is Sleeford Mods is more about living in a. In a council estate. It's more about that. And maybe not as political, but that's it. That's it.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker B: But class is political and, like, this is the.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker B: People aren't even really thinking about that.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker C: That.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker B: About how.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker A: That's a good point. It's. Taylor Swift discussed Palestine. No, no.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker B: And that pisses people off as well. Even if you're not, you know, even if you're like a Swifty that doesn't really know much about the world. Even. Even they're getting annoyed now because it's like, there's no denying what's happening. Yeah.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker A: It doesn't even be a song, but just a tweet, just a statement or something, because that's huge. Oh, well. Oh, well, we can't. We. You got played in Radio Scotland. Let's talk about that. That's an hour we've done and we'll sort of wrap up. Let's get the plugs in. I don't think we can save the world today, but we're working on it.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker B: We'll try next time.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker A: We'll try next time. Yeah. So you have been Girls Rock School. I had a note to say, because they do great work. So you work with Girls Rock School. I had Radio Scotland, Girls Rock School. Do you want to talk a little bit about that stuff and then tell us how people can support you and how. Yeah. How they can follow you on social media and stuff.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker B: Cool. Yep. So I've been doing some work with Girls Rock School. I've actually just left the committee of GRs, but still a friend to them, but I'm starting up my own little songwriting workshops and doing. I think I'm going to try and do a songwriting circle in Edinburgh that's for women, like trans non binary people. And we're just going to meet up and write songs once a month and hopefully like, do an open mic and stuff like that. Just like a little sister organization and what else? Yeah. Been working with them for a long time. But, yeah, I love that. I just love helping out the girlies and helping them be more confident in music. I was on BBC Radio Scotland with Len Penny on the Arts Mix, which was crazy. Like, it's just really cool going on the radio. It feels like one of those tangible things, like, you know, when you're a wee kid and, like, you're growing up and you're like, oh, I want to be like, I used to want to be in the skinny. That was like a big thing for me when I was a teenager.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker A: We've still never been in the skinny. Never once.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker B: Not.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker A: Not after the four albums, which three out four albums, which three or four albums with Gyro Babies, three or four albums with Jacko Trades, countless singles.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker C: Nothing.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker A: Nothing I've ever done. Not no event, no. Nothing has ever been in the skinny once. It's weird.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker B: That is rad.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. But I'm sure it's not, you know, I don't think it's. You just got to not take it personally sometimes. You do. But, you know, none of our singles have gotten the radio this time either. And I don't. There's just a lot of people trying to get a lot of things because I. I'm now having my tiny little platform here. Like, people take it personally if I don't invite them on the show. And it's like, get. You know, I don't know. For me, it's just like, I see somebody promoting a thing and I'm like, oh, they. They should. They probably want to talk about. I seen your video was coming up, and then I seen you're talking to myself. I went, right, okay, so I messaged you. And it's just. That's kind of how I do it. It's just about the right time, right place. Sometimes people ask me to go on the show and I'm just like, you know what? I. I've got time, and sometimes I'm booked up for a couple of weeks. So I don't take it personally because then I. Because people. People take it personally. Me. I know you got in the skinny. Not only that, but you got a. An amazing review in the Skinny.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker B: I did. I. It was years ago now. It was like my. My ep, my second ep, the Good Morning Easter Road one. But see, at the time, right, I never had a clue about any of this stuff, Mark. Like, I just, like, was like, oh, I've just written these songs and, like, got in the skinny. That's cool. And, like, didn't realize that that's, like, really hard to do. So I've never been in since.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker A: Speaking of Leaf. Yeah, we've been playing. We're playing. We've just. It isn't exclusive. We're gonna announce later on today, but the 14th of November, at least Archies. What's that like? Have you been at least Archie's yet. I've never been.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker B: It's literally like behind my house. I hear it quite often.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker B: Do you know, I've not actually been in for a gig yet, but I've been in for. They quite often do like, oh, that's a lie. I played there.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker B: My friends were like, suki. You know Suki. Suki Goodfellow.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Made an amazing picture of me. Look up your psychedelic picture. My profile picture for ages. And she's amazing, very talented.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker B: She's class. She put on a fringe show. Well, she puts on gigs under Queen as Punk quite a lot. They're really good. If anyone's ever in Edinburgh, you need to check out Queer Punk or just go and look on their Instagram. But she had me in hosting and Leith Arches was just a wee acoustic one, but she had like a wee variety show and they do all kinds of events in there. But it is really cool. So 14th of November. I'll write that down.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. So we're just coming back from our Irish tour as well, so.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker B: Oh, nice one.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker A: So should be good. Hopefully I've still got my voice. China shot Bill playing as well and yeah, it's gonna be good. So.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker C: Nice.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker A: I'm not supposed to announce that yet, but it's all right. It's just because it's getting announced later on today and we didn't promote this show so everybody's going to see this in the future anyway.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker A: So what's good? What gigs are coming up and are you. Where is the best. Where's the best platform to follow you? I'll put the link. I'll put your Link Tree. It's Link Tree. Luma Clean Music. Or just Luma Clean or.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker B: I think it's Luma Clean Music.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker B: I don't know why I still do that. I should do it. Luma Clean. Anyway, so the next gig I'm playing is. I've got one on the 1st of November, which is the same day as my songwriting workshop, which I've not announced yet. But yeah, if you're in Edinburgh, come to either of those. There is an unannounced gig in December. These are both just the acoustic gigs, but that's what I'm doing next. And you can find me at Lou McLean Music. Instagram's probably the best place. And I post there quite a lot now because I'm doing the album stuff. But also if you follow me on YouTube or tick tock, I'm going to be doing more rants and like, more because I really Enjoyed doing my Taylor Swift run. And yeah, I'm going to be doing more stuff like that. So if you want to follow me on there, you'll probably get more of a, a chat, the links in the.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker A: Comments and you know, people may actually be watching this on your YouTube channel because if you want, I can now add you as a collaborator after the show's finished. So this is quite good. I've not done it. I think I've done it with two people last night, but I've not seen it work. But potentially this should be really good because it means it can jump upon your channel and our channel.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's brilliant actually because yeah, sometimes you do these things and then you can't really share them properly and it's all that visibility nonsense.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker A: And also like for you, you did, you did, you did an acoustic set for us before. It's all like, I can I just collaborate after that as well. So then, because the problem is that, because when you, when you put it on two different channels, you're just half in the view count. So this is perfect because it means people, when they scroll down, they're going to see it. So well done. YouTube, they've actually some a social media platform that's actually made a change that's just not made things more difficult.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker B: Okay. And like, I don't know why they keep.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker A: All the changes are always just a nightmare, but this is actually good. Well done.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker B: Agreed. And you know what? I'm just, I want to say this as well just before I go. When I was talking about like, you know, I'm, I'm giving Taylor and Sabrina a hard time, but we're not really sitting and talking about like Elon Musk. Musk and like Sam Altman and all of these insane tech bro guys who are making the social media hard to use for us artists taking all our money as well from Spotify streaming and then also just try to destroy the world with AI and data centers and stuff. It's like we should maybe be, I should maybe be reserving my ire for them.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker A: Elon Musk is obviously, if it wasn't for Elon Musk and maybe a couple of certain podcasters, Trump would not have got elected. And that, and that's in, in this same, these same people are. You know, I noticed that Joe Rogan was never there. He doesn't talk about Trump anymore because, yeah, I don't know if he's in denial or because I don't, I don't think woman pressures. He's Not a particularly maliciously bad person. It's just that he's not being the brightest and he's been hoodwinked. I would, I would guess I'm just go. I don't know.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker B: But I know they like the money as well.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker A: Like, they like the money, get it. Get invited to the presidential thing, you know, being close to the way. It's the power. They like that thing.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker B: So I would hate that.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker A: And then, Then the. But then I noticed that he's talking about the ID cards, which I'm totally. The digital id, which I'm opposed to. But it's always. They're always talking about immigration in the UK. They've started talking about immigration in the UK and digital IDs in the UK and just generally I've noticed at the starting because. Because obviously America's on fire. So that's why I talk about that, because it was kind of their fault.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker A: Anyone? Musk is doing the same as well. Just talking about the uk, you know, it's going to be mega. Make England great again and all that. So we got to look forward to. So, yeah, hopefully people don't fall for. Hopefully all you can hope. Well, it's not good for America, but hopefully if Trump continues to do ridiculously insane things, then hopefully people are going to go. Because people right now say, farage, we need somebody like Trump in here. You know, people when the right say that. So if Trump really messes up, then hopefully that opens the door for a more an alliance between your Green Party, your. Your party and just some. There must be a couple of good politicians in the other parties. I'm not sure who.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker B: I know we're running out at this point, like. But no, I, I agree and I think. I just hope that people are a little bit more. A little bit more sensible. Right. Like, just have to do a little tiny bit of reading to know how bad it would be if Nigel Farage got in. Like, even just on the nhs, which is something people are so passionate about in this country, like in the rest of the uk. Like, Nigel Farage wants to privatize the nhs. Like, he's not made a secret of that. Like, you will have to pay to go to the doctors if he gets in. Like, even that fact alone should make people realize that he's a bad guy.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker A: Like, well, he doesn't. It doesn't. Isn't even of a policy that I know of. I mean, apart from the fact that he likes to see racist stuff and people like to. They take that as well. He calls it how he sees it.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker C: I hate that.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker B: I hate that.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker A: I know, of course, of course it's really a horrible thing because surely everybody's calling it as they see it really. But he, it just became, it just became a thing for racist. People say, oh, I like the racist, but. But it's like if you get the campaign, one thing, what is he actually going to do about immigration is not. I don't know if he's actually got a policy on it as such, but rattles on it was the, he got every vote Brexit because he was getting paid a lot of money. He made a lot of money at Brexit and that didn't work. Apparently immigrations went up. I had Becky Fury on the show last week. She's, she's a political analyst and she said that, yeah, immigration has went up because, yeah, basically Brexit's made it more difficult to deal with immigration. So this guy that gave us the, the show that is Brexit, the idea that he's now the favorite to be prime minister is just annoying. And, and AI technology is getting really good now.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker B: I know.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker A: And people don't, people don't do that. They say that they're doing their own research. What they mean is they've watched a thing that somebody said, nobody's fact checking anything anymore and we're going to have really good copies of things. So yeah, people just need to be.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker B: Even like, people using Chat GPT for like research and stuff. And it's like, it's shown like, I think the latest, the latest study that came out about it was, it was almost 50% of the time it's inaccurate. The data that comes up on Chat GPT and people just accept it as, as, as if it's magic. Oh, it's like, oh, it's a magic robot to come up with it for me. Like, use your brains. People like, that's why they're in their head. Like. And I saw something, can't remember which one of them it was, but it was one of these AI guys and they were saying the biggest competition that they have as a company is your imagination. So let that sink in. It's not like, oh, Google are worried about Microsoft. It's like they want you to not use your imagination. They want you to sit in front of your phone and laugh at AI generated videos of cats getting arrested by ice, which is one which I saw this morning.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker A: So, and really good speaker. I, I'll put a link in the comments if once I find it because I shared them Instagram recently, but an amazing woman was talking about Spotify and how they don't want you to think about music. So the playlist thing, so that's exactly the same. It's like. So they're no longer. And obviously here I've got my Spotify playlist as well to try and promote new bands and stuff. And I've got a chill pill playlist. I add everything I think is quite nice when I'm just wanting to relax. But yeah, the idea is that it's just going to be. You'd never have to think of a band or. And where's the fun in that?
• 1:20:43
  Speaker B: Exactly. All this stuff that we don't want, like, I don't want someone to write music for me. I made a tick tock about that as well, about this one of these guys that invented one of these music creating AIs and he's like, oh, the problem is, like, most musicians don't enjoy making music. I was like, me, what the.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker A: That's the magic. That's the magic bit.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker B: That's the best bit. The process, the best bit.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker A: And then you get everything else is because you've made the music so you make a good song and you're like actually quite. I mean, record this. And then you record it, you go, I may as well perform it live. And then you get in a vicious cycle and every. You're in a hamster field after that point and obviously there. There's fun parts about playing live and everything else, but you know then in order to play the gig to people, you need to then promote the gig. And it's a lot of work. But yeah, the magic is the. The songwriting 100%.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker A: So the magical. On the. The magic of the songwriting. The album is out in February or March and Desire Lines is out now on all platforms. Any final words?
• 1:21:53
  Speaker B: Yeah, go and listen to Desire Lines. And yeah, if you see any of my stuff, just give it a wee like and a share. And same with Mark stuff. Because that actually helps quite a lot.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker A: Or even if you can't think in it. I just. I've got two things I just say because sometimes I'm like, oh, I really want to give someone a nice bit of feedback. Or this reminds me of all. But life's busy. You don't. You might have time to construct a sentence. Don't ask. Chat gbt. Just a fire emoji is fine. Or I just say the word class. I just write the word class. I've got my pre. My template is that if I like something, I'm going to read classify an emoji. So just come up with a word.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker B: Heart, eyes emoji. That's what I do.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. You go with heart, eyes emoji. So all you need is a wee. Pick an emoji, pick a word and stick to it. And anytime you see a DIY artist doing something, then do comment. It does help with sharing it to more people.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker A: Thank you very much, Lou. And, yeah, good luck with the album. I look forward to hearing the rest of it.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker B: All right, cheers. Thank you. Bye.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker A: Bye.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker C: Bye.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker B: Thanks for having me.