Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 349: BONUS How to Talk Turkey with Andrew Johnson

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Ep. 349: BONUS How to Talk Turkey with Andrew Johnson · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
0:06
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
0:12
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
0:19
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three
0:22
Speaker 1: forty nine and today we are back with our last
0:25
Speaker 1: bonus Turkey hunting podcast, and our guest is outdoor writer
0:28
Speaker 1: in turkey hunting extraordinaire Andrew Johnson, who's gonna be speaking
0:32
Speaker 1: with us and going deep into the world of turkey vocalizations.
0:41
Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to
0:44
Speaker 1: you by on X. Today we're joined by Andrew Johnson.
0:49
Speaker 1: He's an outdoor writer and contributor to such publications as
0:52
Speaker 1: Turkey and Turkey Hunting Magazine and Mediator. And Andrew is
0:57
Speaker 1: going to help us examine six of the most common
1:00
Speaker 1: turkey vocalizations that every hunter should know, and we're gonna
1:04
Speaker 1: explore what they mean to a turkey, how to replicate
1:07
Speaker 1: them as a hunter, and when and how to do
1:09
Speaker 1: this in a hunting situation. So, in short, we're getting
1:12
Speaker 1: some great turkey calling advice and know how from a
1:15
Speaker 1: very well informed and experienced turkey hunter. I'm gonna say though,
1:19
Speaker 1: real quick before we move on. If you're enjoying all
1:22
Speaker 1: this bonus turkey hunting content and you've got some more
1:25
Speaker 1: turkey tags to fill, make sure you head over to
1:28
Speaker 1: the meat Eater dot com and check out all of
1:31
Speaker 1: our turkey hunting articles. We've put up dozens and dozens
1:33
Speaker 1: of new turkey stories and it's really good stuff, So
1:36
Speaker 1: head on over there to do some reading as soon
1:38
Speaker 1: as you can. So now with that out of the way,
1:41
Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get into our turkey chat with
1:46
Speaker 1: Andrew Johnson. All right with me now on the line
1:51
Speaker 1: is Andrew Johnson. Welcome the show. Andrew, Hey, thanks for
1:54
Speaker 1: having me. I appreciate you taking some time to do
1:57
Speaker 1: this and being flexible with me. Off off air, we're
2:00
Speaker 1: just talking about I've had a newborn, just nuclear cataclysmic
2:05
Speaker 1: fit going on here in our household. So it's an
2:08
Speaker 1: interesting day, but I'm glad we can talk turkeys and
2:13
Speaker 1: you know what we're doing here, Andrew, is a series
2:16
Speaker 1: of bonus, short and sweet turkey hunting episodes here and
2:19
Speaker 1: Wired Hunt, bringing in various experts to talk about specific
2:24
Speaker 1: turkey topics here during the month of April. So for
2:27
Speaker 1: folks that aren't familiar with who you are what you do.
2:30
Speaker 1: Can you give us like the really short, sweet intro
2:32
Speaker 1: to who you are and what you what your turkey
2:35
Speaker 1: hunting experience or or background is. Sure. Um, well, I'm
2:40
Speaker 1: a South Dakota kid and I grew up hunting pheasants primarily,
2:44
Speaker 1: and then and that kind of evolved into deer hunting
2:46
Speaker 1: and turkey hunting, and all about ten or fifteen years ago,
2:51
Speaker 1: I got a job with a national turkey hunting magazine
2:54
Speaker 1: called Turkey and Turkey Hunting. And at the time I
2:58
Speaker 1: literally hadn't even a turkey is more or less killed one.
3:02
Speaker 1: So I basically stumbled through a couple of years of
3:05
Speaker 1: editing stories on turkeys and turkey hunting and also learning
3:10
Speaker 1: from some of the best in the business. And then
3:13
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm sure you've heard it before and
3:16
Speaker 1: also people who have experienced it once once one rattles
3:19
Speaker 1: his head off on his way and you're hooked. So
3:22
Speaker 1: since that time, Um, yeah, I try to get out
3:27
Speaker 1: every spring and we're gonna make a run at it
3:30
Speaker 1: here in the Black Hills if things pan out this spring. No,
3:36
Speaker 1: it's good to talk about turkeys and the outdoors and
3:38
Speaker 1: thinking of brighter days ahead. Yeah, this is definitely a
3:42
Speaker 1: time when we need a nice distraction like turkey hunting
3:45
Speaker 1: more than ever. Yeah. So so that said, then you
3:49
Speaker 1: you've also done some writing for Meat Eater, and a
3:52
Speaker 1: recent article of yours really caught my attention about turkey
3:58
Speaker 1: vocalizations and the six most important turkey vocalizations to know about.
4:02
Speaker 1: So I thought maybe the way we could frame ourk
4:04
Speaker 1: quick conversation here is is just around what those six are, um,
4:09
Speaker 1: and just kind of walk through what what they mean,
4:12
Speaker 1: why they're important, how we as hunters should should use
4:15
Speaker 1: those calls. Possibly so so to kick it off, I
4:18
Speaker 1: guess you wrote in that article that the problem in
4:22
Speaker 1: many cases is that oftentimes when turkey hunters go out
4:26
Speaker 1: in the spring, they have these very one sided conversations.
4:29
Speaker 1: I think you rewrote specifically the quote here is the problem, however,
4:32
Speaker 1: is that springtime conversations often become one sided as hunter's
4:36
Speaker 1: hammer away without realizing the meaning of the calls they're using.
4:41
Speaker 1: So right out the gate, Andrew, why is that a problem?
4:44
Speaker 1: Why is an issue the hunters are calling away without
4:47
Speaker 1: knowing what the heck they're calls mean? Sure, Um, well,
4:51
Speaker 1: just like anything else, there there's context involved, and context
4:59
Speaker 1: is a relative term in the Turkey Woods. I mean,
5:02
Speaker 1: calls you use right away in the morning are different
5:04
Speaker 1: than in the afternoon. Um they vary by region. Um
5:09
Speaker 1: you know, different things like that where And I'm guilty.
5:13
Speaker 1: I've been guilty of this a number of times too.
5:15
Speaker 1: Is I'll pick up a new call and I'll sit
5:18
Speaker 1: in my basement and think, man, I sound really good,
5:20
Speaker 1: and as soon as I step into the Turkey Woods,
5:22
Speaker 1: I want to use it. I just want to hammer away.
5:25
Speaker 1: And that's not really how you want to go about it.
5:30
Speaker 1: I mean less is more. And that's why that's why
5:35
Speaker 1: I said it's a one sided conversation. Is we're more
5:38
Speaker 1: interested in in our calls and just hearing ourselves yelp
5:42
Speaker 1: and really sound good, rather than trying to ease into
5:48
Speaker 1: a conversation with those birds and then start the back
5:51
Speaker 1: and forth. How do you think about that kind like
5:54
Speaker 1: do you when you're out there in the woods and
5:56
Speaker 1: you are hearing how birds are responding to you, do
5:58
Speaker 1: you literally know you literally hear a hen yelp or
6:02
Speaker 1: hen do something or a bird gobble and you say, okay,
6:04
Speaker 1: that means X. Now I'm going to respond in this
6:07
Speaker 1: kind of way or is it a little more subtle
6:09
Speaker 1: in them? Sure, everything has to be taken into consideration.
6:12
Speaker 1: And now if you can and if you can see
6:14
Speaker 1: the birds and there's a boss hen in there, and
6:17
Speaker 1: and she cuts you off, you know, if you start
6:19
Speaker 1: yelping and she cuts you off and starts walking the
6:21
Speaker 1: other way, well you've got to change your strategy and
6:25
Speaker 1: figure out how you can get in with her first
6:27
Speaker 1: before you start trying to go after her gobbler. Whereas
6:30
Speaker 1: if if you are walking through and you're just kind
6:32
Speaker 1: of running and gunning and you hit a box call
6:35
Speaker 1: in a series of yelps and a gobbler blows your
6:37
Speaker 1: doors off, and and then every everything you throw at him,
6:40
Speaker 1: he's cutting me off. Well, then you know you're you're
6:43
Speaker 1: in business. So it's it's a give and take. And
6:48
Speaker 1: I've I've screwed up more hunts than I've had success
6:51
Speaker 1: that let me. Let me throw that out there, and
6:54
Speaker 1: you have to learn from those. And instead of just
6:56
Speaker 1: hanging your head and you know, walking back to the
6:58
Speaker 1: truck trying to figure out what went wrong, you have
7:00
Speaker 1: to look at what went right and see, well I
7:03
Speaker 1: got to this point, how can I carry it a
7:04
Speaker 1: step further? And a lot of that has to do
7:06
Speaker 1: with that conversation because they're telling you stuff not only
7:09
Speaker 1: with the calls they use, but with their body posture,
7:13
Speaker 1: how they're moving around, different things like that. Yeah, that's
7:16
Speaker 1: a great point. Let's let's drill down into then that
7:19
Speaker 1: aspect of what they're telling you, specifically with the vocalizations.
7:23
Speaker 1: The six main vocalizations you talked about were the yelp,
7:28
Speaker 1: the tree yelp, klucks and putts, cutting, purring, and gobbling.
7:34
Speaker 1: Let's start at the top of the yelp. What and
7:37
Speaker 1: I guess maybe do you have stuff with you to
7:39
Speaker 1: actually give us a sound of what you would say
7:42
Speaker 1: each of these sounds like? But I do. And UM.
7:46
Speaker 1: Also for for those in the audiance for a new
7:50
Speaker 1: I wrote this. UM. I used to work with Spencer.
7:53
Speaker 1: Spencer used to write for me with an outdoor publication.
7:55
Speaker 1: I ran here in the dakotas Spencer new art for
7:58
Speaker 1: need Eater, and he reached out and said, hey, I
8:01
Speaker 1: need a basic one on one piece on Turkey calls
8:05
Speaker 1: and vocalizations. UM. One thing I didn't include in there,
8:10
Speaker 1: but it's a it's an awful, useful resource is the
8:14
Speaker 1: n WTF has Wild Turkey Sounds on its website and
8:19
Speaker 1: it runs through all of them. And the way I
8:24
Speaker 1: learned how to do some of these calls, and I
8:27
Speaker 1: know the way some other people have learned how to
8:29
Speaker 1: do these halls, is by playing the audio files online
8:33
Speaker 1: and then trying to replicate them on a box call,
8:37
Speaker 1: slate call, mouth call, what have you? Um so, so
8:40
Speaker 1: for starters, um, I just wanted to throw that out
8:44
Speaker 1: there that because I'm not a good caller, I'm not.
8:47
Speaker 1: I know what to listen for and know those audible
8:50
Speaker 1: cues on when I can move and when I should
8:53
Speaker 1: approach or when I should back off. But as far
8:56
Speaker 1: as the calling goes, I mean, I'm average average at best.
9:00
Speaker 1: So is it fair though to say that that that's
9:02
Speaker 1: that's almost reassuring to hear and it's good enough and
9:06
Speaker 1: it's like anything else, um, a little bit of luck
9:10
Speaker 1: comes into play. But also, um so, understanding when you
9:16
Speaker 1: should use a call is almost as important as how
9:20
Speaker 1: it should sound, if that makes sense. Because you don't
9:24
Speaker 1: like our conversation, you didn't phone me up and say goodbye, Andrew,
9:29
Speaker 1: you know you're you're the first words out of your mouth, where, hey,
9:32
Speaker 1: how are you. It's kind of the same with turkey calls,
9:36
Speaker 1: because if you show up and just start cutting and
9:38
Speaker 1: yelping as loud as you can right away. I mean
9:40
Speaker 1: I can only imagine turkeys kind of looking at each
9:42
Speaker 1: other and saying, like, what is what is this dude
9:45
Speaker 1: or gal doing? I mean this that isn't how they communicate.
9:49
Speaker 1: It's out of context. So that's why we and I
9:52
Speaker 1: picked these six basic calls because they're pretty much universal,
9:56
Speaker 1: and they're the most I would say, the most used
9:59
Speaker 1: or most heard. Um, you know, biologists have found twenty
10:05
Speaker 1: nine different calls. Um. Some say they're thirties, some say
10:09
Speaker 1: there's twenty five. When you get the idea, there's literally
10:12
Speaker 1: dozens of calls turkeys use and in the woods every
10:16
Speaker 1: given spring, you're only gonna hear four or five, maybe six.
10:21
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's about the extent of it. But yeah,
10:25
Speaker 1: if you if you wanna, so, if if people want
10:28
Speaker 1: to a tangible resource, I would encourage them going to
10:31
Speaker 1: n w A t F dot org. But yeah, I
10:34
Speaker 1: have some calls here that can show you how poor
10:37
Speaker 1: of a caller I am as well as um, you know,
10:42
Speaker 1: a proof that being average at this is okay. Yeah,
10:46
Speaker 1: Like I said, I like the fact that it's okay
10:49
Speaker 1: just to be average and you can still get it
10:50
Speaker 1: done when you have this more holistic understanding of knowing
10:55
Speaker 1: the context, knowing what it means, knowing when to apply it. Uh,
10:59
Speaker 1: that's that it's really great to know. So, so can
11:01
Speaker 1: you give us a really quick example. Okay, what's a yelp?
11:04
Speaker 1: And then talk me through the context of that, what
11:07
Speaker 1: it means, and what we should be thinking about when
11:10
Speaker 1: using as a hunter. Sure, yelp, it's basically kind of
11:14
Speaker 1: the foundation for the rest of the calls. It's the
11:16
Speaker 1: most generic turkey call there is, you know, and that
11:20
Speaker 1: I could have combined yelps and tree helps into one
11:23
Speaker 1: because essentially they're the same thing. But a yelp is
11:26
Speaker 1: a yelp. It's a two note call um. A lot
11:29
Speaker 1: of people, especially with mouth calls, have trouble making the
11:32
Speaker 1: first note of the call, which is typically a higher pitch,
11:35
Speaker 1: breaking down into lower pitch. So I have a slate
11:38
Speaker 1: call in hand um and it's an acrylic or glass
11:42
Speaker 1: call um. But I chose it because when I dragged
11:47
Speaker 1: the striker slowly across the surface, he'll be I won't
11:50
Speaker 1: make the yelp at first. I want to make the
11:52
Speaker 1: two notes first, so it'll be a drawn out call
11:55
Speaker 1: where you hear the high pitch to low pitch. So
11:57
Speaker 1: let's see if I can get it to where you
11:59
Speaker 1: can hear it will be hide to low. So it's
12:07
Speaker 1: almost like a teenager whose voice is cracking, just in
12:10
Speaker 1: the opposite direction of that kind of puts it into context.
12:15
Speaker 1: So so did that come through? Okay? Right on? So
12:19
Speaker 1: now that you hear the hide to low and with
12:22
Speaker 1: kind of that break, um, now you add the rhythm
12:27
Speaker 1: and tone and context to it. Because again, and know
12:29
Speaker 1: what you're trying to sound like a love sick hand
12:31
Speaker 1: like you're this is going against their nature. In nature
12:35
Speaker 1: of the gobbler, gobbles and hens go to him, so
12:39
Speaker 1: you're trying to coax him along. And you know, I
12:43
Speaker 1: hate to say it, but it's like you're saying, hey,
12:44
Speaker 1: big boy, I'm over here, you know what I mean.
12:46
Speaker 1: So a little tone, a little rhythm, and a little
12:48
Speaker 1: cadence that's about all it is. And so this is
13:00
Speaker 1: basically that wooing call, letting know like, hey we're over here. Um. Now,
13:05
Speaker 1: when you're hearing that, now, so the opposite, you like
13:08
Speaker 1: to make that call, try to bring him to you.
13:09
Speaker 1: But what if you hear turkeys out there yelping um,
13:13
Speaker 1: knowing okay, there's some hens out there, they're yelping. What
13:16
Speaker 1: does that tell you? And how does that change your
13:18
Speaker 1: plans when you hear another real live bird doing that? Sure,
13:22
Speaker 1: I try to match the hens. And I think that's
13:26
Speaker 1: a common sentiment a lot around a lot of turkey hunters.
13:30
Speaker 1: Is I'm using the same language, so to speak, she's using.
13:35
Speaker 1: So if she's cutting me off, you know, as I yelp,
13:38
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut and I'm gonna cut her right right
13:40
Speaker 1: off the next time she makes a sound trying you're
13:43
Speaker 1: trying to spar with her and raise her curiosity and
13:46
Speaker 1: raise her territorial awareness because turkeys are territorial, man, I
13:50
Speaker 1: mean they they just are. And hens are that way too.
13:54
Speaker 1: So if you can if you're calling to a group
13:58
Speaker 1: of birds where boblers flocked up, you're not really calling
14:01
Speaker 1: to the gobbler. You're calling at the hens. You're trying
14:03
Speaker 1: to work your way in with them. Now, the reason
14:07
Speaker 1: I chose this acrylic call also is it is it
14:09
Speaker 1: has a little bit of rasp. But if I want
14:12
Speaker 1: to play kind of a more submissive tone, I have
14:15
Speaker 1: another call here from UM. It was a birthday present
14:19
Speaker 1: from a buddy of mine from CNS custom calls. But
14:21
Speaker 1: it's a a slate call. Now there isn't as much rasp,
14:25
Speaker 1: which I mean, what I've learned out here in the
14:29
Speaker 1: prairie birds that I hunt a lot is I'm always
14:31
Speaker 1: hunting birds that are flocked up, and so I have
14:33
Speaker 1: to deal with the hen a lot. If I'm more submissive,
14:36
Speaker 1: I found it gives me a fighting chance. If I
14:38
Speaker 1: try to be as bossy as her in the wide
14:41
Speaker 1: open where there's where they know, I mean, they're looking
14:44
Speaker 1: around and they know exactly what's going on. You're not
14:46
Speaker 1: hidden by ravines and hardwood trees. You're you're exposed. But
14:52
Speaker 1: if I go soft without rasp and kind of more
14:55
Speaker 1: subtle and and try to almost be, you know, the
15:01
Speaker 1: little sister to that him, I've had more luck. So
15:04
Speaker 1: here's a a different slate call and you'll be able
15:08
Speaker 1: to hear that. It's not as raspy. So it's a
15:17
Speaker 1: little bit higher, not nearly as I mean, the sound
15:21
Speaker 1: will carry because of the calls make, but without hardly
15:25
Speaker 1: putting any pressure with the striker. I don't want I
15:27
Speaker 1: don't want to get raspy or boss at all. I
15:29
Speaker 1: want to be soft and subtle. I was going to
15:33
Speaker 1: ask you mentioned a little bit earlier the fact that
15:37
Speaker 1: there's there's a certain level of importance with how you
15:40
Speaker 1: start a conversation. You know, the context of how you
15:42
Speaker 1: begin conversations and them, etcetera, etcetera. Um, in the Turkey world,
15:46
Speaker 1: where does it yelp fit into a conversation? Is it
15:49
Speaker 1: okay to start with the yelp or should you ease
15:52
Speaker 1: into a little bit more? No, yelp yelp is a
15:56
Speaker 1: great way to start the conversation. Um, you just don't
16:00
Speaker 1: want to. You know, if you have birds roosted, and
16:02
Speaker 1: you know you're set up within a roosting location, you
16:05
Speaker 1: you don't want to start yelping and just hammering away
16:08
Speaker 1: for the birds are even awake. This is a call
16:11
Speaker 1: that you would work into with tree yelps, which is
16:13
Speaker 1: the second um call that everyone should know. And it's
16:18
Speaker 1: just a very very soft, subtle call used when birds
16:21
Speaker 1: are still on the limb, and it's really nasally because
16:25
Speaker 1: they make it almost with their beaks closed. As they're
16:27
Speaker 1: waking up, you know, trying to sort out the pecking
16:29
Speaker 1: order for day, and gobblers are goblin trying to click
16:33
Speaker 1: their hair. Um hands are answering. If you ease into
16:36
Speaker 1: the conversation with a trio, it's much more realistic than
16:40
Speaker 1: cutting and yelping and just coming in guns blazing, if
16:44
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Can you give us an example of that?
16:48
Speaker 1: Uh of a tree yol trio um? Typically with a
16:53
Speaker 1: mouth call works a lot better. I don't have a
16:54
Speaker 1: mouth call with me. You can make it with any call,
16:58
Speaker 1: friction call or a mouth call um. But it's it's
17:01
Speaker 1: soft and subtle, and it's very leading or almost how
17:06
Speaker 1: would I say, it's almost pleading. So it's just very soft.
17:18
Speaker 1: If you were in the woods and then you know
17:20
Speaker 1: the birds are still on the limb, I mean they're
17:22
Speaker 1: awful hard to hear the way it is at the
17:24
Speaker 1: winds blowing at all and your your upland you're not
17:27
Speaker 1: going to hear it. What's your perspective on calling then
17:35
Speaker 1: on the roost? So is it just tree yelps or
17:37
Speaker 1: are you gonna are you gonna get into regular yelp
17:40
Speaker 1: and then shut up and then not talk until they
17:43
Speaker 1: come down. There's a lot of debate around how much
17:45
Speaker 1: to call it's when I first, you know, when I
17:47
Speaker 1: first started turkey hunting. I think, like a lot of people,
17:50
Speaker 1: it's so tempting that every time they gobble back to
17:52
Speaker 1: you when they're on the roost, and they do many times,
17:54
Speaker 1: you just want to keep them talking and the names
17:56
Speaker 1: go and go and go. And I found that it
18:00
Speaker 1: was not such a good idea eventually. What's your take
18:02
Speaker 1: on that, I'd agree completely. And that's what you just
18:06
Speaker 1: described as a perfect example of how that conversation becomes
18:09
Speaker 1: one sided and you become tone deaf to what's really
18:13
Speaker 1: going on. Um Less when the birds are on the limb,
18:16
Speaker 1: less is more, and I don't I don't make any
18:18
Speaker 1: kind of sounds until I hear a bird gobble or
18:21
Speaker 1: hear a hand yelp, whether it's from a roost next
18:24
Speaker 1: door or the roost I'm hunting, or you know, way
18:27
Speaker 1: off in the distance. I want that that audible queue
18:31
Speaker 1: that it's okay to start making turkey talk. And then
18:35
Speaker 1: if I'm using decoys, um I will throw out a
18:41
Speaker 1: tree yelp, just basically saying ham over here. Just a
18:44
Speaker 1: soft indicator, you know, and if they hear it, great,
18:47
Speaker 1: If not not a big deal, it is what it is.
18:51
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're going to hear that call. Sometimes they're not,
18:53
Speaker 1: based on the terrain and wind and everything else. But
18:58
Speaker 1: it's okay to throw one or two route, but by
19:01
Speaker 1: rule of thumb, I wait for them to make the
19:02
Speaker 1: first move. Um. There, if your decoys are in a
19:06
Speaker 1: spot where those rooster birds can see you in the
19:08
Speaker 1: morning or even mid morning or mid afternoon, Um, it's
19:12
Speaker 1: okay to throw out a yelp just to kind of
19:15
Speaker 1: draw their attention, But then you have to kind of
19:17
Speaker 1: let them make the next move. So once that happens,
19:20
Speaker 1: then you throw a little yelp. They gobble back. Um,
19:25
Speaker 1: how long will you carry on from that point? Or
19:27
Speaker 1: is it? Is it then done? Now? You know? Okay
19:29
Speaker 1: they nail here. Now wait until they come down. Um,
19:34
Speaker 1: if we're talking still on the roost. If they're still
19:37
Speaker 1: on the roost, I um if if I put a
19:42
Speaker 1: tree out out and they and I if Now it's different.
19:46
Speaker 1: If if I have a gobbler roosted alone and I
19:48
Speaker 1: know he's alone, it's rare. But if I know he's alone,
19:51
Speaker 1: then I'm I'm gonna try and get him with anything
19:55
Speaker 1: I can before another hand comes into player, before he
19:58
Speaker 1: joins up another group of birds. But if he's roosted
20:02
Speaker 1: or multiple gobblers are roosted with some hens and everything,
20:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm playing by their rules. They have an
20:08
Speaker 1: established packing order, and I just kind of want to
20:11
Speaker 1: fit in. So if he cuts my tree, yelp off.
20:14
Speaker 1: And if I cluck and he gobbles, if he's gobbling
20:16
Speaker 1: at a cluck before I you know, before he's off
20:20
Speaker 1: the limb, I mean, we're we're in business. But if
20:23
Speaker 1: it's all quiet on the western front, I just let
20:26
Speaker 1: it sit. If he's given me an answer and I
20:29
Speaker 1: know he knows where I'm at, I'm gonna let him
20:33
Speaker 1: make the next move. But if if he's if he
20:36
Speaker 1: is incessant, if he's I mean, if he's tuned up
20:41
Speaker 1: to the point where you could sneeze and he's gonna gobble,
20:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I keep going after him because I don't
20:47
Speaker 1: want I want him to stay focused on me, because
20:51
Speaker 1: other other hens are going to hear this. They're going
20:53
Speaker 1: to hear him and move in, and I want to
20:56
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a one on one phone call.
20:58
Speaker 1: From that point you mentioned clucks, which is your next vocalization.
21:03
Speaker 1: Clucks and putts? Can you talk talk us through what
21:06
Speaker 1: those mean? What they sound like? Yeah, clucks and putts, man,
21:10
Speaker 1: I mean they're hard to know the difference, um, which
21:15
Speaker 1: is also why I kind of said you have to
21:17
Speaker 1: take body language into consideration. If you can hear a
21:20
Speaker 1: bird clucking's I think I wrote something like, it's like
21:27
Speaker 1: a Marco Polo. You ever play that game when you're
21:29
Speaker 1: growing up, you know, you say, it's just their way
21:32
Speaker 1: of keeping tabs on one another, And that's how it
21:35
Speaker 1: was explained to me. And that's I mean, hands are
21:38
Speaker 1: making noise all the time. They're pourring and clucking all
21:41
Speaker 1: the time, whether you can hear it or not. It's
21:44
Speaker 1: just constant. So it's a it's an every day, I
21:49
Speaker 1: mean every minute basically part of their conversation while they're
21:52
Speaker 1: walking around. So it's very natural to add into the
21:56
Speaker 1: conversation from a hunting perspective, just kind of reminding them
22:00
Speaker 1: him over here. And it's just a short stacato note
22:03
Speaker 1: that is basically like a locator calm. So the bad
22:10
Speaker 1: thing is is an alarm put if dangers around or
22:12
Speaker 1: if you get busted. Sounds very similar, but a bird
22:16
Speaker 1: running away making the sound as opposed to a bird
22:18
Speaker 1: just picking its way through an alf alpha field. The
22:22
Speaker 1: context again is important because that will tell you what
22:25
Speaker 1: kind of call it is. So another way to look
22:28
Speaker 1: at it, cluck is how we say the word dude.
22:31
Speaker 1: Like you know, you can inflect the word dude about
22:37
Speaker 1: forty different ways. You know, dude, dude, dude. You know
22:42
Speaker 1: there's all these and we all know what they mean.
22:44
Speaker 1: Turkeys know the meaning. So when when you're throwing out clucks,
22:47
Speaker 1: you want to make it sound like, hey, I'm over here,
22:50
Speaker 1: I know where you're at. And then if they respond
22:53
Speaker 1: to that, then clucking is a way to lead into
22:56
Speaker 1: cutting and more yelping to carry on the conversation. So
23:01
Speaker 1: that's something you can give us a little example of
23:03
Speaker 1: two yeah on a on a um, it's really easy
23:09
Speaker 1: to do. It's much easier than a yelp from my experience,
23:13
Speaker 1: on a mouth call, but on a slate call or
23:16
Speaker 1: even on a box call, you can replicate a cut um.
23:20
Speaker 1: First of all, for anyone listening who hasn't ever run
23:23
Speaker 1: a friction call, whether it's a box call or or
23:25
Speaker 1: a pottent peg call or a slate call, the striker
23:30
Speaker 1: or the friction surfaces should never leave contact from one another,
23:34
Speaker 1: so you're not moving the striker, picking it up and
23:37
Speaker 1: replacing it back on the surface. It stays in contact
23:41
Speaker 1: the whole entire time. Same thing with the paddle. On
23:43
Speaker 1: a box call, it stays in contact with the box
23:46
Speaker 1: the entire time, whether you're going back and forth or whatever.
23:50
Speaker 1: But on a on a pot call or a slate call,
23:52
Speaker 1: a cluck is is really easy to make. It's just short,
23:55
Speaker 1: staicago note, and you can lead into it with a
23:58
Speaker 1: yelp or whatever. It's a cluck. That's about all. It is.
24:12
Speaker 1: Short and sweet. Short and sweet louder is kind of
24:15
Speaker 1: a dude, you know, and a softer is just a hey,
24:20
Speaker 1: I'm over here, dude. So that's kind of how I
24:23
Speaker 1: picture it in my mind. Yeah, I like that. I
24:26
Speaker 1: was going to transition to if if you've got the yelp,
24:29
Speaker 1: which is kind of sweet talking a little bit, and
24:32
Speaker 1: the clucks and puts are kind of like the dude
24:34
Speaker 1: right here, then the next thing I feel like, if
24:37
Speaker 1: we're transitioning through our conversation is cutting, which, at least
24:42
Speaker 1: from the way I've understood it has always been a
24:44
Speaker 1: much more aggressive situation when you get to that. Um,
24:48
Speaker 1: Am I writing that. And if still, can you give
24:50
Speaker 1: me a little more context with how you think about it. Yeah,
24:54
Speaker 1: cutting isn't a normal part part of the conversation. I
24:57
Speaker 1: think that might be a way to phrase it. Cutting
25:00
Speaker 1: is um definitely next level as far as the conversation goes. Um,
25:05
Speaker 1: if you have a gobbler wound up, or if you're
25:08
Speaker 1: sparring with a hen and she's working, you can tell
25:10
Speaker 1: she's coming towards you, whether you can see her or
25:13
Speaker 1: just hear her, I'm cutting is a way to take
25:16
Speaker 1: it to the next level. Um. And I finally pulled
25:20
Speaker 1: up the article so I could read, so I could
25:23
Speaker 1: read exactly what I wrote. But it's Yeah, it's an
25:26
Speaker 1: intense series a louder ratic clucks. There's no rhythm, there's
25:30
Speaker 1: no rhyme or reason. Um, but it's you know, you
25:35
Speaker 1: can cluck. I'm on a box call now, so you
25:47
Speaker 1: can cluck like cluck lead into cuts like that. Um.
25:51
Speaker 1: And if yeah, if they respond to that, you are
25:56
Speaker 1: you're in business. I mean, this is this is a
25:58
Speaker 1: closing the deal type of hall. Or if gobblers are
26:01
Speaker 1: hung up and they're they're fired. Up, but they're just
26:04
Speaker 1: not committing past that, you know, the four yard mark.
26:07
Speaker 1: If you're talking about ethical shotgun range or whatever, you're
26:12
Speaker 1: comfortable or bow ranges. M if if you want to
26:17
Speaker 1: lead them a step further, I mean, it does not
26:22
Speaker 1: hurt to try cutting. And if you know, if if
26:25
Speaker 1: they're posture changes and that kind of scares them off,
26:27
Speaker 1: then and you read that body language, Okay, now I
26:30
Speaker 1: back off. I go back to what was working and
26:32
Speaker 1: got him to this point. But on a on a
26:35
Speaker 1: slate call, you can just cut and lead into a
26:46
Speaker 1: series of yelps and they go. So that's that, that's
26:50
Speaker 1: breaking the hang up. It's an added degree of realism
26:53
Speaker 1: that can um you know, it can either fire bird
26:58
Speaker 1: up to make him across that threshold that he won't
27:01
Speaker 1: break from, or it can help engage that boss hand
27:05
Speaker 1: even more. Yeah. So that's like the aggressive approach to
27:10
Speaker 1: dealing with a hung up bird. I feel like the
27:13
Speaker 1: next vocalization is a little bit like the passive approach,
27:16
Speaker 1: where sometimes I thought, Okay, I gotta get I really
27:18
Speaker 1: gotta get after himse I'll start cutting. The flip side
27:20
Speaker 1: is sometimes I'm thinking, you know what, Okay, I'm just
27:22
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna lay back now and I'm just gonna
27:25
Speaker 1: shut up completely, or I'll just do a little bit
27:27
Speaker 1: of light purring just so you know something's still here?
27:30
Speaker 1: Is that? Is that? How you ever look at it?
27:31
Speaker 1: With this next vocalization, which is purring as I looded. Yeah,
27:35
Speaker 1: And purring is a close contact call. If a bird's
27:40
Speaker 1: yards away on a ridge, he's not going to hear
27:42
Speaker 1: you purring, right, So this is close quarters combat, just
27:46
Speaker 1: as another you're trying to put one more nail in
27:49
Speaker 1: that bird's coffin. Purring a lot of guys purrs and
27:52
Speaker 1: cluck clucks together. I mean it's a lethal lethal combo. Again,
27:57
Speaker 1: because birds do it all day long. I think it
28:00
Speaker 1: um one way I might try to do this is, Yeah,
28:05
Speaker 1: on the n w t F site that I mentioned earlier,
28:08
Speaker 1: they actually have a ten second clip. It's a cluck
28:11
Speaker 1: of per and I'm going to crank my volume up
28:13
Speaker 1: on my computer to see if you can hear this.
28:17
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. And so it's a I mean, turkeys
28:32
Speaker 1: eat all day long, and when they're just strolling through
28:35
Speaker 1: the woods, it's a it's a territorial call, and it's
28:38
Speaker 1: also a call of contentment and so you you're going
28:40
Speaker 1: to pull that out when again there's something close. But
28:43
Speaker 1: they need to just have that reassurance. Yep, everything's all right.
28:49
Speaker 1: I'm in my especially if I'm using decoys and if
28:52
Speaker 1: I have a mouth call in um, purring and clucking
28:56
Speaker 1: on a mouth call. Man, it probably took me three
28:59
Speaker 1: or four years before I had something that sounded somewhat
29:04
Speaker 1: like a turkey. Um. But it's if you can, you
29:08
Speaker 1: try to use it with a mouth call, because turkeys
29:11
Speaker 1: are that close. You don't want to be running a
29:13
Speaker 1: striker across the slate or having to adjust your hands
29:16
Speaker 1: to get back on the gun. But it's yeah, it's
29:21
Speaker 1: it's just reassuring them that, yeah, I'm a turkey. I'm
29:24
Speaker 1: over here. Um, if you want to keep coming this
29:26
Speaker 1: way and check me out, you're more welcome. Yeah. So
29:30
Speaker 1: the next vocalization. Then we've talked through a lot of
29:35
Speaker 1: calls that the hens are making, but the last one
29:38
Speaker 1: is gobbling. So of course we we know what a
29:40
Speaker 1: turkey gobble sounds like. That's the sound we're all turkey
29:43
Speaker 1: hunting for. That's the thing that gets us, gets us
29:45
Speaker 1: amped up and excited. Um, but talk to me about
29:50
Speaker 1: how you interpret gobbles when we when we hear turkey gobble,
29:54
Speaker 1: Are there different types of gobbles that make you think differently?
29:57
Speaker 1: Or is the timing or cadence or how often they're
30:00
Speaker 1: doing it? Are there anythings like that that you're listening
30:03
Speaker 1: for that then change the strategy. Yeah, sometimes gobbles, I
30:13
Speaker 1: mean it's the only true mating call. All these other
30:17
Speaker 1: calls turkeys used throughout the entire year for different purposes.
30:20
Speaker 1: There isn't a hen call out there that's strictly for mating.
30:24
Speaker 1: Gobbling is strictly for mating. And I think when you're
30:29
Speaker 1: in the woods, you can you can tell if if
30:31
Speaker 1: it's a gobble, if for gobble, If a tom is
30:33
Speaker 1: just gobbling on the roost, just a gobble, I mean
30:36
Speaker 1: it will ring out, you'll hear it. But when he's
30:39
Speaker 1: all fluffed up and fired up at fifty yards or
30:43
Speaker 1: even a hundred yards, you can tell there's just there's
30:46
Speaker 1: more guts to it, if that makes sense. It just
30:51
Speaker 1: it's throatier and deeper, and when they mean business and
30:55
Speaker 1: when they're fired up, it's at a different, a different level,
30:59
Speaker 1: you know. Do do you ever make gobbles? Is that
31:04
Speaker 1: something that's in new repertoire. I've I've tried, and years
31:07
Speaker 1: ago I had one of those gob gobbles shaker things,
31:10
Speaker 1: you know and shake it. Um, but I I personally
31:16
Speaker 1: don't use them. Um. I will use other sounds in
31:19
Speaker 1: addition to calling, like all scratch leaves and all take
31:23
Speaker 1: my hat off and beat it against a tree to
31:25
Speaker 1: make like wing wing beat sounds like I'm flying off
31:27
Speaker 1: the roost in the morning. Um. Different audible cues like that.
31:32
Speaker 1: You can. It just enhances your your setup or your calls.
31:36
Speaker 1: But gobbling, no, I leave that to the gobblers. I've tried.
31:42
Speaker 1: I've tried to do it on an out call and
31:44
Speaker 1: every other way, and I I don't know. I don't
31:47
Speaker 1: sound anything like a turkey. Yeah. So so this is
31:52
Speaker 1: um obviously imperative stuff to understand when it comes to
31:57
Speaker 1: getting out there and talking with He's understanding some of
32:01
Speaker 1: the stuff you cover. It's great. What would be if
32:05
Speaker 1: we're going to close it down? Because these are much
32:07
Speaker 1: shorter and sweeter than my usual episodes. I feel weird
32:10
Speaker 1: shutting down so soon because it's so great, But um,
32:12
Speaker 1: as we're trying to stick to what would be that
32:18
Speaker 1: I mean, having edited Turkey and turkey hunting. Having talked
32:21
Speaker 1: to so many great turkey hunter has been out there
32:23
Speaker 1: so much, yourself, probably been with some people that are
32:25
Speaker 1: still learning maybe as well. What's that thing that so
32:29
Speaker 1: many people are screwing up? What's that mistake that is
32:34
Speaker 1: haunting so many of us when it comes to calling
32:36
Speaker 1: or understanding calling? Um, if we could correct that one thing,
32:40
Speaker 1: what would that be? Sure? Um, without a doubt, it's
32:44
Speaker 1: calling too much people. Um, the best turkey hunters that
32:51
Speaker 1: I've hunted with, and I've I've had, I've been blessed
32:57
Speaker 1: with some of the greats you know, Eddie Salter, Alex Outledge,
33:00
Speaker 1: Ted Brown, Chris Parrish, Steve Stolts, Brian Lovett. These guys.
33:07
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that as in their back pocket is
33:10
Speaker 1: that they have that most other people don't, his patience.
33:13
Speaker 1: And they will wait out a bird until the cows
33:16
Speaker 1: come home. They won't say, they won't say a word
33:19
Speaker 1: because if that, if that turkey is down and on
33:22
Speaker 1: the ground and moving around and he isn't spooked and
33:25
Speaker 1: he's not running the other way, there's no reason to
33:28
Speaker 1: try and you can try to coax him. I mean,
33:31
Speaker 1: sometimes we only have an afternoon to hunt so you're
33:34
Speaker 1: kind of forced to make the action happen. And I
33:38
Speaker 1: love taking the fight to a bird, and sometimes I'll
33:41
Speaker 1: just crawl after him because I'm out there to kill him, right,
33:45
Speaker 1: I'm not out there to watch him, even though I
33:47
Speaker 1: love doing it, but I'm I'm out there to kill him,
33:49
Speaker 1: and sometimes you have to force the issue. But the
33:54
Speaker 1: really good Turkey hunters, even though the world champion callers
33:58
Speaker 1: and they have world titles on the all, um, calling
34:02
Speaker 1: isn't the number one thing in their arsenal. I would
34:06
Speaker 1: say it's patience and understanding how and when to move
34:09
Speaker 1: and where the set up they understand. Those put you
34:13
Speaker 1: in a place to call, and then you can use
34:15
Speaker 1: calling if if needed. If that makes sense, it does
34:21
Speaker 1: make sense. And I'm going to ask you an impossible question,
34:23
Speaker 1: but I'm hoping for some kind of guideline. Um. I
34:29
Speaker 1: think people listening will say, Okay, that makes sense, I
34:31
Speaker 1: shouldn't overcall. But how do I know when I'm overcalling?
34:36
Speaker 1: Is there anything any guideline or something to keep in
34:41
Speaker 1: mind for folks to help them know when they're at
34:44
Speaker 1: that line when they're okay, I should probably stop, or
34:46
Speaker 1: this is maybe this is too much like anything to
34:49
Speaker 1: help people there. The only thing I can think of
34:52
Speaker 1: is if you if you can see turkeys, you know,
34:56
Speaker 1: if you're if you're calling to a god or if
35:00
Speaker 1: you're calling to a hand up gobbler, where essentially you're
35:03
Speaker 1: talking to the hens. You have to read their body language.
35:06
Speaker 1: I mean, so if you call too much and those
35:09
Speaker 1: birds start working away from you, or or if you
35:11
Speaker 1: call once and and that hen takes off the other way,
35:15
Speaker 1: that'd be a good indicator to me, Hey, I'm not
35:17
Speaker 1: going to call and then the next day, like if
35:20
Speaker 1: if I live to hunt the next day, where I
35:21
Speaker 1: don't booger them out of there too bad, I understand
35:25
Speaker 1: the next time I go in, I don't need to
35:27
Speaker 1: be calling. I need to set up. And that's where
35:29
Speaker 1: scouting and understanding how terrain and habitat and food sources
35:33
Speaker 1: come into play, and hopefully you understand their daily travel
35:37
Speaker 1: pattern and use that to your advantage. Calling calling more
35:41
Speaker 1: than anything, is just a way to seal the deal.
35:45
Speaker 1: So if you can see turkey, if you can see turkeys,
35:48
Speaker 1: I mean, reading their body language can help you understand
35:51
Speaker 1: how much you call. If you can't see the birds,
35:54
Speaker 1: man if if you have a gobbler responding and he's
35:57
Speaker 1: cutting you off at every step of the way. Um,
36:01
Speaker 1: or even if if he gobbles once and he double
36:03
Speaker 1: gobbles and cuts off a yelp. Sometimes I don't want
36:06
Speaker 1: even call anymore. He knows where you're at, you know,
36:11
Speaker 1: so you don't ever want to overdo it. I don't
36:14
Speaker 1: think there is such a thing as undercalling a bird,
36:16
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. I think people screw up hunts
36:19
Speaker 1: because they call too much. But I've never heard it
36:24
Speaker 1: where someone says I should have called more. You know
36:27
Speaker 1: what I mean? So tread lightly less is more, and
36:30
Speaker 1: just you gotta take everything into consideration. I have no
36:34
Speaker 1: other birds around you are talking. It wouldn't be a
36:37
Speaker 1: good idea to be the loudest voice out there. Yeah. Context,
36:41
Speaker 1: I feel like a moral of this story is taken
36:44
Speaker 1: to account the context of the situation. What's going on,
36:47
Speaker 1: what the other birds are doing? That's really helpful. Yeah, well, Andrew,
36:52
Speaker 1: this is this has been great. I appreciate you walking
36:55
Speaker 1: us through this and given every one a primer on
36:57
Speaker 1: Turkey vocalizations. Yeah, and there's plenty of resources out there
37:01
Speaker 1: people should use. I appreciate um the call. Hopefully someone
37:05
Speaker 1: can take something we talked about and put it to
37:08
Speaker 1: good use. Yeah, this is more tread lightly and shoot
37:11
Speaker 1: him in the head. That's all I got. That's all
37:13
Speaker 1: you need to know, all right, Andrew, Well, thank you
37:16
Speaker 1: and good luck with your turkey hunt in the spring.
37:19
Speaker 1: All right, Mark, thanks for the call. All right, and
37:22
Speaker 1: that is going to do it first today. I hope
37:24
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this one. I hope your turkey hunts are
37:27
Speaker 1: going well so far this year. Man, it feels good
37:29
Speaker 1: to be out there here in those gobbles. I've been
37:32
Speaker 1: taking my two year old son out without a weapon.
37:35
Speaker 1: We're just going out there to try to call him
37:36
Speaker 1: in and it's just been a blast. And I hope
37:39
Speaker 1: you're enjoying some of those same great experiences out in
37:43
Speaker 1: the wild. So until next time, thank you again for listening,
37:47
Speaker 1: and stay wired to hunt.