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Transcript

Green Room Theology · The Worship and Leadership Podcast

0:10
SPEAKER_03: Yo, what is up, everybody?
0:12
SPEAKER_03: It's your boy, Pastor Willie, here on the Worship and Leadership Podcast, and I am joined by my good friend, Pastor Elmer Cognac Jr.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: I am so excited.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Come on, somebody.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to do that.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: You nailed it, bro.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: Did I nail it?
0:37
SPEAKER_02: You got the mannerisms.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Hey, is today's gonna be a great, great episode?
0:44
SPEAKER_03: It is, yeah.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be a great episode, man.
0:47
SPEAKER_03: You know, Pastor Elmer, the stage reveals your gift, but the green room backstage reveals your heart.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: It does.
0:55
SPEAKER_03: And it's really easy for us to focus on what happens on the stage or what happens, you know, on the back end of the 40 minutes in service.
1:05
SPEAKER_03: But what God really wants us to focus on is the 15 minutes prior.
1:09
SPEAKER_03: And who you are backstage is actually who you really are.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it that's very true.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people immediately when you're on platforms or a stage, you turn it on.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's natural for us to become something that is needed of us.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Like when as even as a parent, so let's just move remove it from a platform.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: As a parent, when your kids are around, you you you're a mom and a dad.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Like you you step into that persona in church.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: If you happen to be on a platform, again, we're talking to probably musicians, worship leaders.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's right.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: You're on a platform, and you have to get it all right.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: You come to rehearsals on Thursday, you do all the things, and when it comes to Sunday, you've already practiced how to present things.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Other people would call it performing.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: And and because you've gone through all the motions, it's easy to just kind of live in performance mode.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And perfection mode.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: I gotta play the music right, I have to sing the right parts.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I have to preach the right sermon.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: I gotta I gotta stick to my manuscript.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and so that it's easy to just live there, but all of that is hollow if the person on the inside is not is not connected to God, if if you're not really being truthful, yeah.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're presenting this moment of worship before the church, and your heart is not even close to the Lord, and like you've not even worshiped before being on the platform, right?
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, or you're preaching a sermon, you know, about repentance, but you're carrying sin and you've not repented.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And so the person on the platform is it's it's powerful because you're leading and you're moving people and you and in their thinking and leading them to the Lord.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: And but what good is it to you know lead all these people?
3:10
SPEAKER_00: What good is it to point them to Christ if your own soul is not yeah in the you know fully surrendered to the Lord?
3:17
SPEAKER_00: 100%, yeah.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: And that that I love that you said that part there.
3:21
SPEAKER_03: What good does it do?
3:22
SPEAKER_03: That that's that's I think really like the anchor question there, Elmer, is what good does all of that do?
3:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you know, Pastor Mike has been taking us through this series where we have been examining the kingdom teachings of Jesus, you know, you know, colloquially called the Sermon on the Mount.
3:38
SPEAKER_03: And it's all about kingdom living, and it's all about Jesus getting us to examine our heart, not not our actions.
3:45
SPEAKER_03: He's he's he makes this foundational statement here in Matthew 6, uh starting at verse 1.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: He says, Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them.
3:59
SPEAKER_03: For then you will have no reward from your father who is in heaven.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: So he starts first with that warning: beware, like man, be on guard, be on the lookout of practicing religiosity for the applause and the and the affirmation and the commendation of people, right?
4:17
SPEAKER_03: And it man, it's so easy to do that.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: Like, and to your point, like man, when you especially when you're in front-facing leadership or you serve on a team that is front-facing, it's really easy to gauge your effectiveness by the response of the people.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: And it's easy to allow their response and and like the fruitfulness and effectiveness of ministry to sort of shade and blind you to examining your own self, right?
4:43
SPEAKER_03: And honestly, it it's it's a deception.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: It's a deception from the enemy where he wants us to think about, hey, look at how fruitful we are, man.
4:50
SPEAKER_03: Look how much I'm giving.
4:52
SPEAKER_03: And look at what the response is when I pray or when when I fast, man, look at the attention that that I draw, you know, when when when I when I'm giving all of these things, and and Jesus just says every time, number one, he says that's the action of a hypocrite.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: And then he says, that's the only reward that you get.
5:08
SPEAKER_03: The pat on the back, the attaboy, the thumbs up, the like, the click.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: That's that's that's it.
5:13
SPEAKER_03: And you think about the fact that if that's all that I get, what a shame, because the Bible says that heaven and earth will pass away.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: All of this is gonna burn up in fire.
5:22
SPEAKER_03: And that and that and that's all that we are we're we're focusing on.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think we we have it all mixed up because we see actors in Hollywood, we see celebrities, we see people that have been elevated on these platforms that what they say matters, what they say moves the people, moves the crowds.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: But like you're saying, all that is temporary.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and what it does is it's because uh even a lot of it, like you think of actors, they're not even using their own words.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it's all scripted.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: There's somebody else that's getting paid, like not even as much as they are, to write a whole movie script, to edit, to direct.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: There's all these people behind the scenes telling them what to say.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, musicians, artists, there's all these half of the time artists can't even sing.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: It's all produced in a studio, and there's people that write the songs for them, there's people that dress them up, there's people that do their makeup, there's people that take their pictures.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: It's all conjured.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: It's all it's it's it takes a village to make one person look and sound like what we see, and then that's what we idolize, that's what we want, that's what we pursue.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: But in reality, when when the man of God, when the woman of God is pouring themselves out on a platform, you don't need this whole village behind your back making you look good.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: It starts with time with the Lord and abiding in God, and then all of a sudden there's this downpour from the Holy Spirit just like into your spirit.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And again, you could be singing somebody else's song, but when you get on the platform and you're you're pouring your heart out and you're pouring your worship out before God in front of the church, people know the difference.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people know the difference when you're performing, they know when you're just singing empty words, yeah, and they know when you're pouring your heart out before God.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: It's something happens in the room.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: That's they know when preachers are preaching just something that they just wrote down that they got off of Chat GPT.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: They just know when they're repeating words from their pastor or something, right?
7:20
SPEAKER_00: And they know when it's coming from the heart, you know, and just that God's just like like using you as a mouthpiece.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: There's there's a difference between the the person that is surrendered in the green room, and we're using green room as like off the stage talk, pretty much.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: That when your life is fully surrendered to to the Lord off of the platform, yeah.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And then when you set foot on the platform, right, it only elevates what's happening in secret.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of times people want they want it the other way around.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they want the platform, they want the stage, they want the accolades, right?
7:51
SPEAKER_00: But they've not surrendered their calendar, they've not surrendered their lives.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: He's not even Lord of their life.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: Right.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: Like that's a good point because he says further on in Matthew 7, in that day, the last day, the day of judgment, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, they will call me Lord, Lord, and and I'm I'm gonna cast them out.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: They're gonna say, But Lord, did we not do, man, did we not do these mighty works?
8:14
SPEAKER_03: Did we not heal the sick?
8:15
SPEAKER_03: Did we not raise the dead?
8:16
SPEAKER_03: You know, did we not preach and and share the the the good news of the kingdom?
8:19
SPEAKER_03: No.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: Did we not win people?
8:21
SPEAKER_03: And Jesus is gonna say, Depart from me, you worker of iniquity, because I didn't know you.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: I never knew you.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: Man, and what a tragedy.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: And I I love that you I love when you that is so powerful, Emma, what you said about the you know, the the the one that proclaims that the preacher, the speaker in that moment, God's spokesman, God's spokeswoman.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: They don't need a whole village.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: The Holy Spirit is the one that that anoints them, that fills them and leads them.
8:46
SPEAKER_03: And you know, what one of my one of my favorite things to sort of challenge is when people approach us, you know, as a church, and Pastor Mike's talked about this, you know, when they want to get on our calendar and they want to say, man, you know, how do you how did you do this?
9:04
SPEAKER_03: They always start with what we do and and how we do, because God has has blessed us to to be a kingdom influence, you know, here in the state of Tennessee, here in the city of Clarksville.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: Like, like God has blessed us to be a kingdom influence here, right?
9:16
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I know you get calls, I get calls and people say, hey, you know, what they always start with our systems and like what we do.
9:22
SPEAKER_03: And I love to challenge that by saying, hey, like when you know, when if I'm doing small groups coaching or whatever for a church, I love to ask, hey, how many people on your staff are are involved, not involved, but leading small groups?
9:35
SPEAKER_03: And I'm always met with either, well, it's not very many, or they're like, Well, why are we starting there?
9:40
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, yeah, exactly.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: Let's start with the men and women in leadership and how they're being spiritually formed.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: How are they being discipled?
9:49
SPEAKER_03: How are they being led?
9:50
SPEAKER_03: Because if they're if they're not being led well, if they're not leading well or being led well in those moments, it's going to reflect out there.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: I I'm reflecting as you're talking on even the the moments that we're experiencing here at Life Points at all of our campuses, really.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: And just in worship in the Word, there's just a beautiful presence of God.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's just, it's hard to just continue on.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: We got four services, we got to keep things going.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And at times it's really hard to just kind of all right, let's keep moving forward because you just feel God so present, right?
10:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: But but the reason, and then just to answer somebody's question, because they're like, why don't you just linger?
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you just sit in that moment?
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Because the same God that is meeting us in that moment will continue to be with us when we move on to the to the announcements and the and the message.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And and so it it a song doesn't make the moment sweeter.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the fact that we're in the presence of the Father.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: And for a lot of people, that's not enough.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: And like they want to feel, they want the the little pads in the background, they want someone singing or whispering something that sounds sweet.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Once you're in the presence of God, where would I rather be?
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, better is one day in his courts and thousands elsewhere.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna move the service on because we got four services.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: A bunch of people, a bunch of kids.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: We're we're gonna move it.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: All right, but I'm thinking of what's happening in our church, and I've always said Sundays is an overflow of Thursdays.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: And what I've always referred to that with that is that with the intent and the intentionality and the heart in which we prepare on Thursday nights.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's our evening that we have rehearsals, we do our creative small groups, community, all the things.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: And so we're we're casting a vision, we're praying, we're worshiping, we're preparing on Thursdays.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And so we say Thursdays is Sundays is an overflow of Thursdays.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, what I'm starting to see now, and I love this, is we we do twice a month we do staff chapel.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: On Tuesdays, Tuesday mornings, and we have all of our staff and LLA apprentices that show up, and these moments in worship, three years ago, yeah, I would sing a song in worship, and people would just be looking at me, drinking their coffee, yeah, just like people on Sunday morning.
12:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, come on.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be real, I want to kick someone's coffee cup out of your hand when I'm singing sometimes.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Just like I wish there was a catwalker and could just kick, you know, drink your coffee.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Just just not, you know, whatever.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: But that was that was what it was before, like the same attitude, the same, like, all right, I'll get to it when I'm done.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but all of a sudden now on our staff, and I love this the the the culture that is that has been established in in the posture of worship and is is honoring God.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah people show up on time, yep, ready to worship, going all in, just me and my guitar, and then Pastor Willie on his bass, and we're we're leading these moments.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: I'll mess up the songs and they're still singing, and I'll sing songs that are too high for me.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: And they're just pouring their hearts out, and the worship is so sweet.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and you just you just hear that room.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Like people aren't going through the motions, they're they're worshiping, yeah, they're pouring their hearts out.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: We go into time of prayer, they're laying hands on each other, they're praying, believing for miracles, you know, faith to rise, and there's just something that has happened on our team internally, yeah, that just has awakened this this hunger for God, yeah, this this desire to to just love on God with our worship.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and now we're seeing the overflow of Tuesday into our Thursdays and Sundays.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: So now it's not like for me, my Sunday doesn't start on two on Thursdays, right?
13:31
SPEAKER_00: It used to, right?
13:32
SPEAKER_00: But now it's like I am so excited about Tuesdays because that's gonna overflow into our Thursday nights, into our Sundays, yep, and because it's happening on the inside.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: And so the point is you can't expect things in front of people that are not happening in private.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And so the fact that our staff is encountering the presence of God in private, we don't need all thousands of people to see what God is doing.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: It's just the team and experience God's presence.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: And then come Sunday, we're seeing we're seeing lives change, we're seeing God do incredible things, and people can say whatever they want, but the presence of God is here.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I'd rather I'd rather do something at the pace that the Lord is calling us to do with him presence than something that can move a lot faster without him at the center of it.
14:23
SPEAKER_03: That's so good, man.
14:24
SPEAKER_03: You know, that this this reminds me, oh man, I want to see if I can find it.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Where Moses is talking with the angel of the Lord, and the angel of the Lord tells Moses to just to basically just go on up.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: I want to see if I can find it.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: And Moses says, you know, we're not gonna go if your presence won't go with us.
14:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh let me see.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: And it it may it really speaks to what you're saying.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: Let's see here.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: Here we go.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: Exodus 33, 15.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: Come on, somebody.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: I knew I knew it, I knew it was Exodus.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: Exodus 33, 15.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: So this is on the back side of Moses interceding for the people because they have sinned, and and God is he's he's about to take them out.
15:17
SPEAKER_03: And verse 12, Moses said to the Lord, see you say to me, bring up this people, but you have not let me know whom you will send with me.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: Yet you have said, I know you by name, and I've also found favor in your sight.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: Verse 13.
15:29
SPEAKER_03: Now therefore, if I have found favor in your sight, please show me your now your ways, that I may know you in favor to find favor in your sight.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: Consider too that this nation is your people.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: Verse 14.
15:39
SPEAKER_03: And he said, My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: And he said, If your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: He's like, Do not send us into the prompt.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: Don't, if your presence won't go from here.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: And look at what he says, for how shall it be known that I have found favor in your sight and I and your people?
15:58
SPEAKER_03: Is it not in your going with us so that we are distinct?
16:02
SPEAKER_03: I and your people from every other people on the face of the earth.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: He's like, he's telling Yahweh, he's telling the Lord, how in the world are we going to be distinct from everything else that that everyone and everything else around us if your presence doesn't go with us?
16:17
SPEAKER_03: He's Moses is saying, we don't want to be like the world.
16:21
SPEAKER_03: We don't want to be like everyone else.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: We want to be distinct.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: Not so that people would look to us, but so that we right now would understand and remember we are your people.
16:29
SPEAKER_03: And I love him.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: We are your people.
16:36
SPEAKER_03: And we want we don't want to live and we don't want to do life like everyone else.
16:39
SPEAKER_03: We want to do it your way.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: And I just, and to your point, that is that's what's been taking place on our staff.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: It's like we we don't want to do ministry.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: We don't want to be cookie cutter.
16:50
SPEAKER_03: We don't want to do ministry based on tradition or what's popular or what's in vogue or what's quote unquote relevant.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: Lord, if your spirit won't go with us, we don't want to do it.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: We won't go up from here.
17:00
SPEAKER_03: We we won't put on a we don't want to do a program, we don't want to do a ministry, we don't want to do a service, we don't want to do uh an initiative, we don't want to do anything without your presence.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I love that.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: I was convicted this morning because someone shared with me of a video of an event that happened here in Asheville.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: And before the event, like the the speakers gathered, the worship team, they were all gathered in a green room, and and the intent of the video was this was the videographer capturing the moment.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think he expected to capture what he what he actually got because he was there just behind the scenes social media stuff, but the intensity of prayer in the green room that happened, like they didn't they didn't meet, like everyone converged together.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Like there were different speakers and worship leaders from different places.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: They converged in this green room, and it wasn't like, hey buddy, how you doing?
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's going on?
18:00
SPEAKER_00: How's golf going?
18:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, this and that.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, it was like immediately like, hey, let's pray.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: What do you need prayer for?
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And they start praying, and then they started laying hands on each other, like on they prayed for every single person in that room.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they just kept going and going and going and going and going.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And they weren't concerned of like, what if oh I gotta stop because what if I lose my voice?
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, or hey, come on, we're about we're gonna about to pray for a bunch of people.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's just let's let's tone it down back here.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, it was it was probably more intense in that green room than it was on the platform.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Wow, and what that said to me was it just it just convicted me because uh there's been a lot of times, like I'll come in for soundcheck at 5 45 in the morning.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: 545 says a lot already, five in the morning, yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: And so my voice is not a hundred percent, but we'll go through sound check and I'll start like at 50, 60, eventually probably give about 80 at soundcheck, and then when services begin, you kind of let it all out because you're trying to preserve your voice, yeah, right.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: And so there's this whole notion of persevation.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Let me, let me, let me gauge my energy well so I don't get exhausted.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Wow, this and that.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: But like we'd get to do Sundays, yeah, and we we don't do it on our own strength.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: We say this all the time.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Like we'd get through a whole week of that's full of crap and hard things, and we say, Hey, you're gonna make it because the Lord is with you.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: And then I come to serve on a Sunday and I'm gauging my energy for the next six hours.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, like in reality, I'm telling you, I was so convicted, I'm being sarcastic to myself.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, man, like I'm not giving everything immediately.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like slowly releasing to the Lord what he's given me because I'm just waking up, I'm just just getting it going.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, like, man, what if when we first showed up, it was like, let's go.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of, all right, God, what do you want to do?
19:56
SPEAKER_00: And just kind of just dive into.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: We've we've not done that, but it just again, it convicted me to how we we slowly move into the things of God in the sense of a Sunday morning.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're talking about the green room, and so we're in the green room and we're slowly kind of getting the engine turning.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let everyone wake up, let the coffee kick in, let this and that, and and we're depending on other factors to get us excited.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: And all right, if Pastor Willie's not here, right?
20:24
SPEAKER_00: The huddle's gonna be boring, like this and that.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: We you know, it's all based on somebody else and not on God Himself.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, bro, if we came excited about encountering the presence of God and letting him be our strength and our resource, and man, like what would that look like for the green room to be more intense than the platform?
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Come on.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I I just it's it slapped me in the face this morning, and I'm like, God, like, what am I doing?
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've been doing this for over 20 years.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what am I doing?
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, man.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: That's so good, Elmer.
20:56
SPEAKER_03: I I I love the word you use, overflow.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: You know, you said Thursdays are overflow in the Sundays, and the green room really is the overflow into the platform.
21:04
SPEAKER_03: Man, that is convicting to your point.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, what would it look like, you know, even for us, you know, to really surrender and open up and say, Holy Spirit, what you want to do in this moment, what you want to do, backstage here in the green room, have your way.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: And and for us to to to cultivate that in in in a way where we can say, God, we cannot, we don't want to step on the platform unless you go before us.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: Don't, don't, don't send us up there if you're not gonna go with us.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: I want to open my mouth and sing a note.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna strum a string.
21:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to hit a hit a hit a piano key.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to preach one word of scripture if your spirit's not gonna go with us.
21:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:40
SPEAKER_03: It'll be fruitless.
21:41
SPEAKER_03: It'll be we we the the the spotlight will be on the wrong target, right?
21:44
SPEAKER_03: Come on, man.
21:45
SPEAKER_03: That oh, that's so good, Omer.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: And you know, again, uh I I do feel the need to say this just pastorally too.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: You know, what we're not talking about is, you know, moral perfection.
21:57
SPEAKER_03: We're we're not no nobody is is We are righteous and morally perfect in Christ.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: Like that's where our righteousness comes from.
22:05
SPEAKER_03: So as a Christ follower, you are in Christ.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: Therefore, you are completely righteous because you wear his righteousness.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: But what we are talking about is sanctification and consecration.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: And those that especially the word consecration, it's so lost in our culture because, you know, nothing is really sacred anymore.
22:23
SPEAKER_03: Nothing, right?
22:23
SPEAKER_03: And so there's a hard distinction between what is holy and sacred and what is profane and common and ordinary.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: So what we are talking about, though, is the direction that your life is oriented toward and who it's oriented around.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: And so it really speaks to a hunger, a thirst, a desire, and a holy awe.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, do you just when you wake up, and I mean, not before Sunday, like you just wake up every day with a heart that's full of gratitude, a heart that's full of honor and worship, and a heart that's full of awe?
22:55
SPEAKER_03: Like, are you in awe of who God is?
22:57
SPEAKER_03: Are you in awe of his majesty and his reverence and his nobility?
23:01
SPEAKER_03: Are you in awe of his compassion and his kindness and his wisdom, his power and his strength?
23:06
SPEAKER_03: Are you in awe of his closeness?
23:08
SPEAKER_03: The fact that the God who created the universe resides in you.
23:13
SPEAKER_03: Not a part of him.
23:14
SPEAKER_03: The fullness of God resides in you.
23:17
SPEAKER_03: God, the Spirit resides in you.
23:19
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, have you just stopped to reflect on that and the implications of what that means for your life?
23:25
SPEAKER_03: Where everywhere that you walk, everywhere that your foot treads, you carry the majesty of the king of the universe with you and inside you.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, man, thank you, God, that you chose.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: I don't, I'm not worthy of that at all.
23:38
SPEAKER_03: I know who I am, but I focus now on more on whose I am.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: And let that be the overflow.
23:46
SPEAKER_03: All of you that are either full-time or part-time in ministry, you also have connections.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: I had another thought when you were talking about overflow coming out of our Tuesday chapels.
23:56
SPEAKER_03: That also helps when we do pastoral care and when we meet with our teams, or when we have something sudden and unexpected and crazy pop up, and we don't react in the flesh.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: We respond.
24:07
SPEAKER_03: One thing I love that Pastor Mike would always say when he was training us as ministers, he would say, let's say you get a call, something crazy and urgent has happened, and you're like you're on your way to the hospital.
24:17
SPEAKER_03: He said, You may be heading down the highway on two wheels, burning up the road.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: He said, But the moment you walk, I will never forget this.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: He said, The moment you enter into that space, he said, the peace of God let it accompany you.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: I never forgot that, Umber.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: You walk in, like again, you may be getting everything straightened up.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: The moment you walk in, the peace of God needs to walk in with you.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: And that can't happen consistently unless you've been spending time with the Prince of Peace, the God of peace.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: Or you're you're just not rattled.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying you're not surprised.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: I'm not even saying you're not shaken, but you're like, wait a minute, this ain't on me.
24:47
SPEAKER_03: Lord, this is on you.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: The peace of God's gonna walk in before me, it's gonna precede me.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna walk in and I'm gonna do what you sent me here to do, to shepherd and to serve.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say something that's hard.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: I think let me start with this.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: In the Old Testament, when the people of God would present their annual uh sacrifice to the Lord with through the high priest for the atonement of their sins, there was this entire ritual of the high priest had to wear a certain garment, and we've talked about this on the podcast before.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: The garment at the bottom had little bells, and they would tie a rope around him, and when he would enter the Holy of Holies, they knew if the offering was accepted because they wouldn't hear the bells hit the ground.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but if all of a sudden he wasn't moving, they knew the offering was not accepted.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so when they would go into that moment every year to present, listen, to present an offering to God, they went into that with fear.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Because they knew they weren't perfect, they knew that they had sinned several sins throughout the year, and now hopefully the Lord God would receive their their sacrifice and and atone their sins.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: I think we still live in that posture.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Because when we think of the presence of God, we we love the blessings of God.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we love the hand of God, we love the favor of God, we love the presence of God in the sense of how it makes us feel, the peace of God, like you were saying.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: But we don't love, we don't love the fact that when we actually enter into the presence of God, sin cannot be present.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And so when you talk about sanctification, we have to come to a place of repentance, yes, and we have to face our sins.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so when you're truly in the presence of God, you have to confront your sins.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've I've thought so many times, like, all right, we're gonna press through this, we're gonna worship, but I'm carrying sin, and I guarantee you, and I'm telling you again from experience, yeah, I'm leading worship, I'm singing whatever, and and it's it's coming up to my mind, like, hey, like, and it's not, and I used to say, Oh, the devil's trying to remind me of all my mistakes and my sins.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: No, it's just I've not repented.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm up here leading and I've not repented.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so it's not the devil reminding me.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: No, it's the Holy Spirit convicting me at the fact that hey, you need to bring this before God, repent.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
27:13
SPEAKER_03: Come on, keep going, but we're just good.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: And we blame it on the devil, and we're like, oh, the little devil on our shoulders is is saying, reminding me of what I did the other day.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, it's the Holy Spirit convicting you of the sin that you're still carrying as you're trying to enter the presence of God.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Come on.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, he's he's very present, he's there, he's loving, his peace.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: You still feel his peace, you still feel you see, you walk in his grace.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Come on, but but in order for me to fully encounter and for me to fully experience what God has for me in that moment, sin cannot be present.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I believe a lot of us, including myself, yeah, we're scared of that aspect of the presence of God.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we're in awe of God and his wonders.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: I write songs about it.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're we're in awe of all it, but when it comes to like, man, if I'm still, if I'm still harboring sin, and it's still hidden, yeah, like I don't know if I want to go into the presence of God.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: And so you know what?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go to the green room, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I don't drink coffee, so I'll just get my my little tea.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'll I'll just sit in the corner until it's time to go.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm struggling myself to surrender my sin and to repent.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And so then I'm okay with mediocre moments because not willing to let go of my sin.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: When you can really dive into those intense moments of God, do what you want to do.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's when you say, Hey, I'm sorry, I repent.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: I truly turn away from all the things that I've been doing, and I want to be in your presence without anything hindering you from doing whatever you want to do through my life.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: That's it right there.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: And and so that's the thing, again, but it all starts before you even get on a platform.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
28:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, I man, come on preaching now, Elmer.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: It is, it's it's it's like you said, the secret place.
28:59
SPEAKER_03: It's where we are sanctified, it's where we are refined, it's where we draw close to the Lord in confession, in repentance.
29:07
SPEAKER_03: And I would say, you know, on top of that, I think part of the reason why we do fear, you know, repenting is because we don't make a practice or habit of it.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: Like if you just make a practice and a habit of like hiding your sin from the Lord, it's gonna generate this spirit of fear.
29:20
SPEAKER_03: And the Bible says he didn't give you a spirit of fear, he gave you a spirit of power, love, and a sound mind.
29:25
SPEAKER_03: And also the Bible also says in Galatians 4 that he's given us a spirit of adoption, where we're we're sons and daughters.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking through Psalm 24 with what you just said.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Psalm 24, verse 3 Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord and who shall stand in his holy place, he who has clean hands and a pure heart.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: You know, you've talked about David, pure heart and skillful hands, clean hands and a pure heart.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: Listen to this who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and who does not swear deceitfully, they're honest with themselves.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: David says in Psalm 51, on the backside of terrible sin, he he kills Bathsheba's husband, Uriah, sleeps with Bathsheba, and has a a son out of wedlock.
30:06
SPEAKER_03: And he's suffering for all of that.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: And he says in Psalm 51, I believe it is, he says in Psalm 51, verse 6, Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: There it is again.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: Inward being, secret heart.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: And he's saying, God, you delight truth.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: He's like, you delight for me to be honest with you about myself.
30:28
SPEAKER_03: And we don't that there's no place for like demonic fear.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: There is a place for holy fear, but that that fear is motivated by love.
30:36
SPEAKER_03: It's recognizing, God, you are so much greater than the sin that I am repenting of.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: Like he is so much more satisfying.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: So I want us to, I want to repent to the Lord.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: Number one, because you know, repentance is cleansing.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: Peter says in Acts 3, when they say, What must we do to be saved, brothers?
30:54
SPEAKER_03: What must we do to be saved?
30:55
SPEAKER_03: And he says, repent and come back to the Lord.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: He says that times of refreshing may come.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: There is a refreshment on the backside of repentance.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: I don't repent because I don't want God to be, you know, I don't want him to be mad at me anymore.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: I repent because I, man, I desire to be refreshed and renewed and restored to closeness.
31:14
SPEAKER_03: And the sin that I'm laying down, God is so much more satisfying than that.
31:18
SPEAKER_03: That sin is deceptive.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: It is lying to you.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: Jesus says in John 7, I believe 38, he says, Come and drink of me.
31:25
SPEAKER_03: Drink the water that I offer, and it will not only fill you, but it will become a river of life bubbling out of you.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: You will actually be overabundantly full.
31:33
SPEAKER_03: Where now that over there's a word overflow.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm worshiping God out of the overflow.
31:37
SPEAKER_03: I am so full of living water, it's just flowing out of me on that platform, on that stage, in that, in that room.
31:42
SPEAKER_03: It's just flowing out of me.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: And others are drinking from the same well that I've been drinking from.
31:47
SPEAKER_03: It ain't my water because he fills me with it.
31:49
SPEAKER_03: So the water, the the living water is just, I'm just a vessel and it's just flowing out of me.
31:53
SPEAKER_03: That's how I can forgive people that's like me.
31:56
SPEAKER_03: Man, that's how I can have hard conversations with grace.
31:58
SPEAKER_03: Man, that's how I can do, I can shepherd people, I can sit with people who are watching their spouses die.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: You know, that that's you know all that that's how I can apologize to my wife and my kids when I've wronged them.
32:08
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm like, oh no, I want closeness.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: I want the living water flow out of me.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: Come on, somebody.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And we can keep on going.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: We could.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: We can keep on going.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: We absolutely could.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: This is powerful.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: But I just want to encourage you guys, for those of you that get to do things on platforms in front of people, if it's on social media, if it's at work, if it's at church, focus on the private, the secret place, and allow God to form in you a heart, a desire for his presence, which includes when you love the Lord, everything else follows.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: When you truly love him, everything else follows repentance, sanctification, just a commitment, a heart after the Lord.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And man, it don't get better than that.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Come on.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Again, like Pastor Willie said, it's not about perfection, right?
32:56
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's really about like, man, if we're truly wanting to serve people well, and if we're truly wanting them to lead them to become fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ, then it starts with us.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: And so don't don't take that for granted.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: It's it is a weight that is worth carrying.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: It is a weight that is so valuable because it will impact so many people.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: But don't take it lightly.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: There is a responsibility that comes with it.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: And so we're excited that we get to share this moment with you on the podcast.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And so we love you guys.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for hearing us out.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: And until next time, peace out.