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Lee Marshall: Ghosts, Glitter & Graveyards · Echoes of the South

• 1:25
  Carrie Genzel: Some people spend their whole lives running from the unexplained. Lee Marshall walked straight toward it.
• 1:33
  Carrie Genzel: Long before ghost tours, eerie photographs, and unexplained encounters in the historic streets of San Antonio,
• 1:42
  Carrie Genzel: Texas, Lee says it began with a near-death experience. At just three years old after being hit by a car,
• 1:51
  Carrie Genzel: something changed. And not long after that, the impossible began finding him.
• 1:57
  Carrie Genzel: By the age of five, Lee was in communication with what he believed was a spirit of a man who had taken his
• 2:06
  Carrie Genzel: own life. For many people, that kind of story becomes something buried, hidden,
• 2:13
  Carrie Genzel: explained away. Not Lee. Years ago, Lee and I met while I was developing a paranormal television project,
• 2:21
  Carrie Genzel: a show that embraced humor, camp and friendship while still taking the paranormal seriously.
• 2:29
  Carrie Genzel: Somewhere between the laughter, investigations and long conversations about what may exist beyond this life,
• 2:38
  Carrie Genzel: we stayed friends. And over the years, Lee continued experiencing things that defy explanation.
• 2:46
  Carrie Genzel: Now living in San Antonio, a city layered with history, tragedy, folklore, and restless stories,
• 2:54
  Carrie Genzel: Lee leads tours through some of its most haunted locations and over the years Guests on those tours have captured
• 3:03
  Carrie Genzel: some of the clearest apparition photographs I've ever seen. What makes the images even more compelling is
• 3:12
  Carrie Genzel: that these aren't staged investigation photos taken in isolation. They're often captured spontaneously by
• 3:21
  Carrie Genzel: tour guests in the middle of the experience, then immediately shared with Lee and the group while everyone
• 3:29
  Carrie Genzel: is still standing there together, trying to make sense of what they're seeing.
• 3:36
  Carrie Genzel: Some of the apparitions are shockingly clear. But perhaps the most extraordinary story isn't about a ghost
• 3:45
  Carrie Genzel: caught on camera. It's about a warning, a moment from beyond that may have saved his mother-in-law's life
• 3:53
  Carrie Genzel: when a sudden fire tore through their home, destroying nearly everything inside.
• 4:00
  Carrie Genzel: Tonight we talk about survival, spirits, skepticism, humor, haunted cities,
• 4:06
  Carrie Genzel: and what happens when the unexplained becomes part of your everyday life. I'm Carrie Genzel and this is Echoes
• 4:15
  Carrie Genzel: of the South.
• 4:17
  Carrie Genzel: Lee, thank you so much for joining me on Echoes of the South. I'm so excited to have you here.
• 4:23
  Carrie Genzel: There is so much to talk about. We go back. We go back a few years.
• 4:28
  Lee Marshall: A couple.
• 4:30
  Carrie Genzel: Yes, just to get everyone up to speed. So I think it was 2011, I think I was developing a show and I was looking
• 4:39
  Carrie Genzel: for a team in the Los Angeles area. And you happen to be a part of a team that I was looking into.
• 4:47
  Carrie Genzel: for a project that ultimately got called SASS
• 4:51
  Lee Marshall: yes.
• 4:52
  Carrie Genzel: The super awesome spirit squad. SASS was really fun. It was really, really fun.
• 4:53
  Lee Marshall: Spirit speed. Brilliant. It was fun. Yes.
• 5:01
  Carrie Genzel: I actually have the, I found the logo, which was fun. Hey, SASS There we are.
• 5:06
  Carrie Genzel: There you are.
• 5:08
  Lee Marshall: my gosh. There we are. look. I was younger, wasn't I?
• 5:14
  Carrie Genzel: Look at little Lee, you look the same.
• 5:18
  Lee Marshall: I was little skinnier too, lordy.
• 5:21
  Carrie Genzel: There we are, there we are doing our spirit fingers in the cemetery at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
• 5:27
  Lee Marshall: That was an experience, wasn't it?
• 5:28
  Carrie Genzel: That we got a lot of evidence that mausoleum, holy smokes.
• 5:33
  Lee Marshall: remember the little girl who cried, kept crying on the other end of the mausoleum,
• 5:36
  Lee Marshall: where you'd go to one side and then she'd be on the other side? Crazy.
• 5:40
  Carrie Genzel: It was really, really active. it, you know, we were, we were
• 5:44
  Lee Marshall: Ha
• 5:45
  Carrie Genzel: so blessed because they gave us permission to really have the run of the place all night.
• 5:50
  Carrie Genzel: And, I remember being really spooked out by the people that do the yard work at night because they don't have
• 5:57
  Carrie Genzel: lights. just kind of wander around and, and do their work. And you would stop,
• 6:02
  Carrie Genzel: I did several times. I remember one time walking up to someone, I was like,
• 6:07
  Carrie Genzel: are you real? And he laughed. I said, because I've seen some shadows and things.
• 6:13
  Carrie Genzel: And so, and he laughed. goes, sometimes we ask ourselves that when we see other people because working,
• 6:19
  Carrie Genzel: because there's a lot that happens there at night.
• 6:23
  Lee Marshall: Yes. yeah. I think what the creepiest part of that cemetery for me was the statues.
• 6:27
  Lee Marshall: Everywhere
• 6:28
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Lee Marshall: you looked and they were so there the white marble statues everywhere and the moon glow off the statues like
• 6:34
  Lee Marshall: everywhere you looked there was just it was weird. It was spooky. I enjoyed it.
• 6:38
  Carrie Genzel: That's what's so interesting because you're right in the middle of Hollywood and you're right next to Paramount
• 6:43
  Carrie Genzel: Studios. So there's a lot of light that's just naturally in that cemetery, which is probably why the workers
• 6:49
  Carrie Genzel: can still work without having, you know, their own lights. But
• 6:53
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 6:53
  Carrie Genzel: it's wild to hear the city noise and the bustle and busyness of Hollywood. And then you're in this cemetery
• 7:01
  Carrie Genzel: that outside of whatever shadows might be rolling through or staff is just quiet.
• 7:08
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, yeah, was very,
• 7:08
  Carrie Genzel: Silence. Stillness.
• 7:10
  Lee Marshall: yeah, encased by that large fence. And yeah, it was like a whole different little world.
• 7:17
  Carrie Genzel: It was, yeah, we got a lot of evidence in there. I remember there was a lot of EVPs and when we were in the
• 7:23
  Carrie Genzel: mausoleum, you all were shooting in another part of the mausoleum. I was hanging back because I wasn't on
• 7:29
  Carrie Genzel: camera and I was trying to make notes to what was happening and something kept messing with me in the dark,
• 7:35
  Carrie Genzel: right?
• 7:36
  Lee Marshall: you
• 7:37
  Carrie Genzel: And I was like, get out of here. I was like, they're over there.
• 7:39
  Lee Marshall: Stop it.
• 7:41
  Carrie Genzel: Like I was getting mad. Stop messing with me. It was like whispering in my ear.
• 7:45
  Carrie Genzel: It was like tapping, you know, on my shoulder. And I'm like, dude, I'm trying to work over here.
• 7:51
  Carrie Genzel: You know,
• 7:52
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 7:53
  Carrie Genzel: it's so funny. And we talked a little bit about this before we got we got into this interview about how there
• 8:00
  Carrie Genzel: are certain spirits that will be very playful or like mess with you, you know,
• 8:05
  Carrie Genzel: and definitely in the mausoleum. That happened to me for sure. Yeah.
• 8:10
  Lee Marshall: yeah.
• 8:11
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, but let's let's start back at the beginning way back. That's our
• 8:12
  Lee Marshall: Remember the spookies? yes. Let's do it.
• 8:16
  Carrie Genzel: that's our beginning. But let's start back. Let's this is your life, Lee. This is your paranormal life.
• 8:20
  Lee Marshall: this.
• 8:23
  Carrie Genzel: You know, I and I because I I feel like we had this conversation a long time ago,
• 8:29
  Carrie Genzel: but just to refresh my memory and for other people to learn more about you is is.
• 8:35
  Carrie Genzel: You know paranormal the paranormal world and those experiences something that you always remember having or
• 8:43
  Carrie Genzel: was there a certain time in your life that you Really were in tune with you know that world
• 8:50
  Lee Marshall: Okay, so most of my life, yes, I remember having these experiences. When I was very young,
• 8:56
  Lee Marshall: I got hit by a car and I died. And it seems to me that it was after that happened.
• 9:01
  Lee Marshall: Honestly, I was three years old when that happened, so I don't recall much before three.
• 9:07
  Lee Marshall: But it wasn't until about the age of five that I... was explaining to a friend who was over for like a little
• 9:14
  Lee Marshall: play date, my mother was making us sandwiches. And I was telling my friend about the man who killed himself
• 9:21
  Lee Marshall: in my bedroom. And I remember my mom getting very upset with me and demanding to know who told me that,
• 9:28
  Lee Marshall: because she thought maybe my sister, my older sister, or my father had. And I remember looking at her and
• 9:35
  Lee Marshall: very innocently, I'm sure, it just said, the man with a hole in his head. That's in my bedroom.
• 9:42
  Carrie Genzel: Wow, yeah.
• 9:45
  Lee Marshall: And she didn't say anything to me about that. And it wasn't until quite a few years later that I learned that
• 9:49
  Lee Marshall: a man actually had shot himself in the head and killed himself in my bedroom,
• 9:53
  Lee Marshall: which that was just sort of a confirmation for me. I already knew what happened because I'd been talking to
• 9:58
  Lee Marshall: him. He even showed me
• 9:59
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 9:59
  Lee Marshall: the bullet hole that was in the door that remained in my bedroom door.
• 10:04
  Carrie Genzel: Wow. And it's interesting, you know, it's interesting that you said it was around five,
• 10:09
  Carrie Genzel: because I remember it being about, I was probably about five or six when I started seeing somebody in my room.
• 10:15
  Carrie Genzel: And my parents just kind of labeled it, I think, as like an imaginary friend,
• 10:19
  Carrie Genzel: right? Like, you have an imaginary friend, right? And some people did at that age,
• 10:24
  Carrie Genzel: but I don't think it was that imaginary.
• 10:27
  Lee Marshall: You're like, is that what you're gonna call it? Okay.
• 10:28
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, okay. Because I do remember having conversations, like real conversations.
• 10:33
  Carrie Genzel: And I know I'm a storyteller, you know, but, I have a great imagination, but I,
• 10:38
  Lee Marshall: Sure.
• 10:39
  Carrie Genzel: when I think back, I don't think I was making that up. Yeah.
• 10:42
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:44
  Carrie Genzel: Wow. Well, that's a pretty substantial first encounter.
• 10:47
  Lee Marshall: the beginning. Yeah, that was when I realized, wait a minute. And I think the second thing that happened to
• 10:53
  Lee Marshall: me was not long after that. There was this little weird creature that I used to see in the house,
• 10:58
  Lee Marshall: mainly in the garage. And the only way I've been able to describe it, the closest that I can describe it looking
• 11:05
  Lee Marshall: like, is the little dragon in the movie Mulan.
• 11:08
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 11:09
  Lee Marshall: That's what it looked like to me. It would jump from rafter to rafter and it used to terrify me.
• 11:14
  Lee Marshall: And I remember one afternoon, my parents were standing in the garage talking to some other friends,
• 11:19
  Lee Marshall: I guess. And I was standing at my parents side and I remember looking up and seeing this little creature jumping
• 11:25
  Lee Marshall: around and he was like leering down at us. But then I noticed none of the adults were reacting to it.
• 11:30
  Lee Marshall: So I just thought, okay, I guess there's nothing to worry about. And
• 11:34
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 11:35
  Lee Marshall: that's the last time I ever remember seeing that until.
• 11:37
  Carrie Genzel: Interesting, but you felt like it was not friendly or playful.
• 11:40
  Lee Marshall: It wasn't friendly. No, no, it wasn't friendly. And it was it wasn't until years later that I talked to another
• 11:46
  Lee Marshall: family member that had lived with us off and on throughout his life, who had gotten really sick and was in
• 11:52
  Lee Marshall: the garage one afternoon and saw it. But when he shared the story, I totally forgot about it and I was like,
• 11:58
  Lee Marshall: oh, my God, I used to see that. Yeah. But then, of course.
• 12:02
  Carrie Genzel: It's interesting how something like that you would think you would never forget and then you're like,
• 12:07
  Carrie Genzel: yeah.
• 12:08
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, I totally remember that. And I remember the last time that I saw it was standing with my parents.
• 12:13
  Lee Marshall: And I guess I just assumed it was because it didn't bother me anymore. I was like,
• 12:17
  Lee Marshall: must not be anything to worry about. So I just didn't pay attention to it anymore.
• 12:21
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 12:22
  Lee Marshall: But that house was weird. There was weird stuff going on in the house before my parents bought it.
• 12:27
  Lee Marshall: After my parents sold it, someone killed themselves, hung themselves in the garage.
• 12:32
  Lee Marshall: So yeah.
• 12:33
  Carrie Genzel: I wonder if that thing influenced them.
• 12:35
  Lee Marshall: Maybe, now I did years later chat with a lady whose husband and, her ex-husband and father-in-law live in
• 12:42
  Lee Marshall: that house. And she says they've never experienced anything paranormal. So.
• 12:47
  Carrie Genzel: It's so interesting when people have these very distinct experiences in a property or location and then other
• 12:54
  Carrie Genzel: people will live there and say, nothing happened. Nothing happened while we were here or nothing ever happens
• 13:01
  Carrie Genzel: here. So it's, it's, go, are they just not noticing it or is, did it move on or is it just not revealing itself
• 13:08
  Carrie Genzel: to them? I don't know. It's always very fascinating to me as the storyteller.
• 13:14
  Carrie Genzel: want to know the story, right?
• 13:16
  Lee Marshall: Wish I knew the answer to that because I don't. I don't know why we see it and some other people don't.
• 13:21
  Carrie Genzel: I know, I know, or why people can live in it. Two different families can live in a location.
• 13:26
  Carrie Genzel: One has experiences and then the other doesn't at all.
• 13:29
  Lee Marshall: At all,
• 13:31
  Carrie Genzel: Right. I know, I know definitely from investigating that sometimes they just stay away.
• 13:35
  Carrie Genzel: Like they'll stay in other other parts of the house. Right. Sometimes. So
• 13:40
  Lee Marshall: Mm-hmm. Right.
• 13:41
  Carrie Genzel: I don't know if they know that those people aren't connected enough to notice them or communicate with them
• 13:48
  Carrie Genzel: and so they just stay away. I do kind of feel like when they know that someone can see them or hear them or
• 13:56
  Carrie Genzel: connect with them that they kind of, I always say it's like a Wi-Fi signal.
• 14:01
  Carrie Genzel: It's like ding ding ding. Like there's a light or something. Boom! this person can see me.
• 14:08
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 14:09
  Carrie Genzel: You know, when we investigate here in Macon, Georgia, because it's not overly investigated,
• 14:13
  Carrie Genzel: we kind of take them by surprise sometimes where they're kind of like, me? Right?
• 14:17
  Carrie Genzel: Who? What are you doing? Right?
• 14:19
  Lee Marshall: Yes. You see me? Yeah. Yes.
• 14:26
  Carrie Genzel: It's very interesting. And so we often, for the... the early stages of the investigation have to earn their
• 14:33
  Carrie Genzel: trust and explain to them why we're there and we're not there to get rid of them and we're not there to harm
• 14:41
  Carrie Genzel: them and you know that we just want to communicate but there's a little bit of that like you feel like someone
• 14:49
  Carrie Genzel: at home and they're like underwear and they're like What are you doing here?
• 14:54
  Carrie Genzel: Wow, wow. All right, so early on, you started off with a bang. That's quite an
• 15:00
  Lee Marshall: Mm-hmm. Yes.
• 15:01
  Carrie Genzel: intense way to get introduced to the other side. And then throughout your life,
• 15:06
  Carrie Genzel: is it something that you tried to explore or did you just kind of put that aside and continue on with your
• 15:14
  Carrie Genzel: life?
• 15:15
  Lee Marshall: I've always been interested in it, I do, I feel like there was a time in my earlier life that things sort
• 15:21
  Lee Marshall: of kind of calmed down a little bit. And I don't know if it was because I was just too focused on doing other
• 15:27
  Lee Marshall: stuff that I wasn't paying attention, but I've always had the interest. Probably it was my late teens when
• 15:34
  Lee Marshall: I started to really notice stuff again. And I don't know if it was just maybe it was hormonal.
• 15:39
  Lee Marshall: don't know. Yeah.
• 15:41
  Carrie Genzel: Right, maybe. Well, they say that that plays into it sometimes with certain activity,
• 15:44
  Carrie Genzel: right?
• 15:45
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. And I know for a while I had dabbled as most teenagers will dabbled into the more of the the occult
• 15:56
  Lee Marshall: kind of stuff.
• 15:58
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 15:59
  Lee Marshall: And I learned very quickly, don't do that. Just don't do that. Like, it's OK to
• 16:02
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 16:04
  Lee Marshall: research it and learn about it. But you really got to know what you're doing when you're dabbling.
• 16:09
  Lee Marshall: And.
• 16:10
  Carrie Genzel: Yes, you do. I've talked to people that have had to undo what people have dabbled in because they've opened
• 16:17
  Carrie Genzel: up a doorway that they did not close.
• 16:20
  Lee Marshall: And it can be very difficult dealing with that kind of stuff too.
• 16:23
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah. And, you know, that's something that I've always been very respectful of.
• 16:27
  Carrie Genzel: I was talking to our investigative team recently about like Ouija boards and things like that
• 16:33
  Lee Marshall: yeah.
• 16:33
  Carrie Genzel: and how like people think they're just a game and they can open things up and then they don't close them and
• 16:40
  Carrie Genzel: then, you know, surprise.
• 16:42
  Lee Marshall: I get asked that a lot about Ouija boards, especially Ouija boards, and I always try to explain to them it's
• 16:47
  Lee Marshall: kind of like you want to see a white moth, so you open up your window and put a candle in your window to attract
• 16:54
  Lee Marshall: a white moth. You may attract a white moth, but you're gonna attract every other moth and every other insect
• 16:59
  Lee Marshall: that is attracted too light to that candle too. So, gotta be careful what you're doing,
• 17:04
  Lee Marshall: yeah?
• 17:05
  Carrie Genzel: That's it. That's it. And also, like, this is something I just learned recently,
• 17:10
  Carrie Genzel: that you may also attract things that are not even into the realm of, like,
• 17:16
  Carrie Genzel: a good spirit or someone you're trying to communicate, and you might get something darker.
• 17:22
  Carrie Genzel: But you also apparently can communicate with things that may not even be of this world.
• 17:28
  Carrie Genzel: what I mean is, like, extraterrestrial, which I had never heard before.
• 17:34
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, interdenominational beings, definitely.
• 17:37
  Carrie Genzel: Sure, yeah, which I think is, you know, when you're a girl at a sleepover playing with a Ouija board,
• 17:42
  Carrie Genzel: that's not even in the realm of what you're imagining is going to happen. Right,
• 17:46
  Carrie Genzel: right.
• 17:47
  Lee Marshall: Right. That could have possibly happened. Yes. No. Yeah. I don't recommend playing with Ouija boards at all.
• 17:57
  Carrie Genzel: I've always been very respectfully staying away from them. Especially, you know,
• 18:01
  Carrie Genzel: people will buy them at flea markets and antique shops and, you know, some of them are really beautiful,
• 18:07
  Carrie Genzel: but you don't know what they've been used for. So unless you really know how to handle them,
• 18:13
  Carrie Genzel: it's probably a good idea just to not handle them.
• 18:16
  Lee Marshall: yeah. Good idea not to. Yep, I agree. I agree.
• 18:23
  Carrie Genzel: I mean, that goes for sometimes in locations too, where you, with these older locations with just so many
• 18:29
  Carrie Genzel: layers of history, you don't know what has all been done in those homes. And people are like,
• 18:34
  Carrie Genzel: I don't know why there's activity. And it may not be that particular family,
• 18:38
  Carrie Genzel: but someone before them may have been doing something in the basement.
• 18:43
  Lee Marshall: Yes. yeah. you know, energy, there is residual in energy when it comes to that kind of stuff too.
• 18:49
  Lee Marshall: You know, especially stuff that, that creates really high levels of intense energy,
• 18:54
  Lee Marshall: very happy moments, very sad moments, very scary moments. That stuff can permeate the surroundings and who
• 19:01
  Lee Marshall: knows how or why that energy gets re-released into the atmosphere. And we start to experience what may have
• 19:08
  Lee Marshall: happened a hundred years ago in the same room.
• 19:11
  Carrie Genzel: Right. And there's also been certain times, you know, in history where people have gotten really into seances
• 19:17
  Carrie Genzel: and trying to conjure things and all of that stuff. And so you think, you know,
• 19:22
  Carrie Genzel: when they don't really know what they're doing either, how much of that was really closed off the way it should
• 19:29
  Carrie Genzel: have been after they were finished.
• 19:32
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:36
  Carrie Genzel: Or not, yes.
• 19:38
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, I just assume not play with that kind of stuff You know if the spirit needs to deliver me a message
• 19:44
  Lee Marshall: or wants me to deliver a message by all means I'm happy to do it, but I'm not gonna go seeking it and I'm
• 19:51
  Lee Marshall: not gonna Conjure up anything
• 19:53
  Carrie Genzel: Right. I know. People, think, think it's fun and it's like a party trick or something.
• 19:59
  Carrie Genzel: But there's real results that can happen when you don't know what you're doing,
• 20:04
  Carrie Genzel: depending on what you end up bringing over or communicating with. And they
• 20:10
  Lee Marshall: Absolutely.
• 20:10
  Carrie Genzel: can be tricky, right? They can present themselves in ways that feel friendly or familiar.
• 20:13
  Lee Marshall: Yes. yeah.
• 20:17
  Carrie Genzel: And that's not exactly what you're communicating with.
• 20:20
  Lee Marshall: when they tell you they're a lost little girl looking for their mom.
• 20:24
  Carrie Genzel: Right? Can I sit on your lap? No, you cannot. Can I hold your hand?
• 20:30
  Lee Marshall: No. Can I live with you? Yeah, no.
• 20:36
  Carrie Genzel: We sometimes you would think I would have learned my lesson after I had a spirit follow me home from a decommissioned
• 20:42
  Carrie Genzel: insane asylum. But sometimes I still forget to tell them that they have to stay where they are.
• 20:48
  Carrie Genzel: Sometimes it
• 20:49
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 20:51
  Carrie Genzel: still escapes me. And we were here in Macon, Georgia at a location that we were going to be doing an investigation
• 20:58
  Carrie Genzel: at. And the next morning I got up and I noticed a little. boy standing at the end of my hall and just staring
• 21:05
  Carrie Genzel: at me and I said, no, you've got to go back home. You cannot be here. You're not
• 21:11
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:13
  Carrie Genzel: welcome in my home. I was like, I don't even know if that is a little boy. It is appearing as little boy,
• 21:20
  Carrie Genzel: but you cannot stay. This is not your home. No. my, you know, it's it's so interesting.
• 21:27
  Carrie Genzel: And I think that's one thing that I always try to remind people to is that,
• 21:32
  Carrie Genzel: you know, we the living have a lot of power. And when it comes to your home,
• 21:38
  Carrie Genzel: you know, you can tell something to leave. And my experience is for the most part,
• 21:44
  Carrie Genzel: it will, you
• 21:45
  Lee Marshall: Mm-hmm.
• 21:45
  Carrie Genzel: know, it they'll they'll go or they'll they'll follow the rules. Right. And sometimes you get those that don't.
• 21:52
  Carrie Genzel: We've had those two and we've had to bring in
• 21:55
  Lee Marshall: yeah, for sure.
• 21:56
  Carrie Genzel: bring in the professionals. Right.
• 21:59
  Lee Marshall: You always get the ones that'll back off into a corner and just kind of stay there.
• 22:01
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, I'm leaving. You're right.
• 22:03
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, they're like, yeah, OK, I'll go. I'm going now.
• 22:09
  Lee Marshall: Uh huh, uh huh, I my footsteps. Right.
• 22:12
  Carrie Genzel: But for the most part, I think that they will go. They'll respect that and stay out of your way.
• 22:16
  Carrie Genzel: At least I'd like to think so.
• 22:18
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree, in most of my experiences that yeah, yeah, I've run into very few experiences
• 22:24
  Lee Marshall: where the spirit was more angry and just didn't want to leave, which...
• 22:29
  Carrie Genzel: Right. Well, I think too, it's about acknowledging them and respecting them.
• 22:32
  Carrie Genzel: And I know that like, you know, the house I was living in in Los Angeles, which you know,
• 22:36
  Carrie Genzel: in Laurel Canyon, there was a woman that I saw when I first moved in and she scared the heck out of me because
• 22:42
  Carrie Genzel: I thought someone broke into the house. Like I saw a full body woman standing in my bedroom when in
• 22:47
  Lee Marshall: For sure, Solid,
• 22:52
  Carrie Genzel: the dark, you know, because the lights weren't on. And and but there was light coming in from the window and
• 22:56
  Carrie Genzel: I was like, You know, and and then I realized because
• 22:59
  Lee Marshall: I'm gonna go.
• 23:02
  Carrie Genzel: her her clothing was not of the time and I was like,
• 23:05
  Lee Marshall: Right? Yes.
• 23:09
  Carrie Genzel: OK, this is you're from some other timeline. I did say to her, I don't mind that you're here.
• 23:14
  Carrie Genzel: I don't necessarily want to walk into a dark room and see you standing there because that's shocking to me.
• 23:20
  Carrie Genzel: But, you know, I don't mind that you're here and you can let me know that you're here in other ways.
• 23:26
  Carrie Genzel: And she never appeared again. she would do things to let me know she was there.
• 23:30
  Carrie Genzel: She would tap or she sometimes would mess with the television or knock or something.
• 23:35
  Carrie Genzel: She would do that. But then, as you know, because we did investigate that house for SASS,
• 23:40
  Carrie Genzel: there
• 23:41
  Lee Marshall: Yes. Yeah.
• 23:44
  Carrie Genzel: was a lot more going on in that house than just that woman. Yeah, I remember.
• 23:46
  Lee Marshall: yeah. yeah. yeah. Yeah.
• 23:51
  Carrie Genzel: I remember. I'm just remembering now more of that shoot. Didn't something say your name out loud?
• 23:56
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, I heard
• 23:57
  Lee Marshall: Yes, yes.
• 23:59
  Carrie Genzel: it was like, Lee.
• 24:00
  Lee Marshall: And we were both standing there and we both turned around to see who it was and.
• 24:03
  Lee Marshall: That was fun.
• 24:04
  Carrie Genzel: There was nobody there. And I remember other people in the room heard it. Unfortunately,
• 24:09
  Carrie Genzel: we weren't rolling, but
• 24:11
  Lee Marshall: Right?
• 24:11
  Carrie Genzel: other people in the room heard it because they were like, who is that? I was
• 24:15
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 24:15
  Carrie Genzel: like, I...
• 24:17
  Lee Marshall: I and you know, it's so funny because before I see them, I always hear them.
• 24:23
  Lee Marshall: I actually hear them more often than I see them.
• 24:27
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 24:28
  Lee Marshall: And. Sometimes they'll come through because there's like a little message they want me to deliver and which
• 24:34
  Lee Marshall: is always weird, especially
• 24:36
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 24:37
  Lee Marshall: when it happens and you know, you're kind of figuring out, OK, this is for this person standing next to me
• 24:41
  Lee Marshall: and I don't know this person and how are they going to react to this?
• 24:45
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 24:46
  Lee Marshall: But I did learn
• 24:46
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 24:47
  Lee Marshall: over the years, just say it. Because more times than not, they're very grateful and it was more like a closure
• 24:52
  Lee Marshall: situation that they were really looking for. Yeah, I've had
• 24:55
  Carrie Genzel: Really? That's interesting.
• 24:57
  Lee Marshall: something that happened on my tour a while back that was really, really interesting.
• 25:01
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, let's get into that. as I've mentioned, so we met in Los Angeles and you were living in Los Angeles
• 25:08
  Carrie Genzel: for many years and you were doing investigating there with a team and, and then you have moved to San Antonio
• 25:17
  Carrie Genzel: to Texas in the last few years. Yeah.
• 25:20
  Lee Marshall: Yes, yes. Good old San Antonio. Yes. for sure.
• 25:22
  Carrie Genzel: Talk about some history. mean, Los Angeles has its own haunted history. It's very haunted.
• 25:25
  Carrie Genzel: I don't think people really think of it as a haunted city, but I think it's one of the most haunted cities.
• 25:30
  Carrie Genzel: There's just so much going on there.
• 25:32
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Well, with LA, have to think about all the people who have migrated to LA because they want to be a
• 25:35
  Lee Marshall: star and all those crushed dreams and all those people who weren't able to make it.
• 25:38
  Lee Marshall: you know, there's a lot of things.
• 25:40
  Carrie Genzel: I know. I know. Yeah. And also those people that did have their probably their biggest moment,
• 25:46
  Carrie Genzel: whether on stage or on screen or as a musician or whatever that still hold on to that was my biggest moment.
• 25:53
  Carrie Genzel: That's when I thought I made it or when I did make it or it was a big milestone in my life.
• 25:59
  Carrie Genzel: And they're reliving that. you know, over and over. But yeah, I hear what you're saying a lot about sort of
• 26:06
  Carrie Genzel: the crushed dreams. And then you think to like California, just like the gold rush and all of the people that
• 26:13
  Carrie Genzel: migrated there from the east and and
• 26:16
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 26:17
  Carrie Genzel: gosh, and you can just keep going back in time. Like there's a lot of history on that land.
• 26:22
  Carrie Genzel: But Texas, tell me, tell me about San Antonio. I have never been. I want to get there.
• 26:27
  Carrie Genzel: I know. I know. I know.
• 26:29
  Lee Marshall: You need to come visit. It's hot. You know the hot, yes.
• 26:36
  Carrie Genzel: Well, I'm in I'm in middle Georgia, so I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 26:44
  Lee Marshall: San Antonio is very interesting. I grew up in San Antonio. So when I moved back,
• 26:48
  Lee Marshall: it was kind of like coming home. It had changed a lot. It's gotten much bigger.
• 26:53
  Lee Marshall: But San Antonio is very interesting. And of course, we all know some of the history of San Antonio.
• 26:59
  Lee Marshall: We have the Alamo and the Battle of the Alamo that occurred, but not just that battle of Bexar There's so
• 27:06
  Lee Marshall: many battles that have happened right there in what is now downtown area. So downtown's a hotbed of all sorts
• 27:12
  Lee Marshall: of paranormal activity, which is very interesting.
• 27:16
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Lee Marshall: So I do some tours through downtown. very interesting situation happened a while back where on my tour I kept
• 27:27
  Lee Marshall: getting in my ear the name Sylvia being shouted.
• 27:32
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 27:33
  Lee Marshall: When I first heard it I thought someone was actually yelling to the group like someone on my name my group
• 27:38
  Lee Marshall: was Sylvia and somebody knew her so I turned around I'm looking but no one's reacted to it I'm like oh okay
• 27:45
  Lee Marshall: And for about a week, kept hearing this name shouted pretty much at the same area too.
• 27:49
  Lee Marshall: I'm thinking, what is going on? And then one night on the tour, young lady came over and asked me who Sylvia
• 27:56
  Lee Marshall: was. And I was like, why do you ask that? She was like, because when we were walking right through here,
• 28:01
  Lee Marshall: someone shouted the name Sylvia. And I was like, you heard that too? And she's like,
• 28:06
  Lee Marshall: yeah. I was like, I don't know who she is, but somebody wants to talk to her.
• 28:11
  Carrie Genzel: You
• 28:14
  Lee Marshall: A few days later I was on the tour and as I'm walking with the group there are three ladies behind me.
• 28:20
  Lee Marshall: They all booked together. They were like sisters I think if I recall correctly.
• 28:25
  Lee Marshall: And I heard the name Sylvia shout it again and this time it was very very loud.
• 28:31
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 28:31
  Lee Marshall: And I turned around and I stopped the group and I said, okay. And I always introduce myself at the beginning
• 28:36
  Lee Marshall: of the tour and explain to them that sometimes things will come through. If it comes through,
• 28:41
  Lee Marshall: any type of message, I will share it. If you don't wanna know, just put your hand up so I'll stop.
• 28:45
  Lee Marshall: So
• 28:46
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 28:47
  Lee Marshall: I turned around, stopped the group and I said, okay. Something's been coming through for quite a while,
• 28:53
  Lee Marshall: but it's really, really loud tonight. Does the name Sylvia ring a bell to anybody?
• 28:58
  Lee Marshall: and no one said anything, but the ladies that were behind me all kind of got that look in their eye.
• 29:05
  Lee Marshall: And I was like, uh-huh. And at that point I started getting flashes, these little mental images.
• 29:11
  Lee Marshall: And this is usually like I'll hear first and if there's more of a continuation of contact,
• 29:16
  Lee Marshall: I'll start getting images flashed in my head. and the images I was getting was first a red rose,
• 29:23
  Lee Marshall: then it was red rose with a white background, then it was a red rose with a background,
• 29:28
  Lee Marshall: it was on a teapot. And I was like, So I said, a red rose teapot. And their eyes got even bigger,
• 29:34
  Lee Marshall: and then I see just this little gold ring. Just a little gold ring.
• 29:39
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 29:39
  Lee Marshall: And I was like, okay, and the next thing I see is a little gold ring, like a baby's ring.
• 29:44
  Lee Marshall: And all three of the ladies reached in, pulled out their necklaces, and they all had a little red gold ring.
• 29:51
  Lee Marshall: And one of the girls said it was their aunt Sylvia that had passed away three weeks before.
• 29:57
  Lee Marshall: And she was supposed to go on the tour with them.
• 30:01
  Carrie Genzel: No.
• 30:01
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. And I was like, that makes sense.
• 30:05
  Carrie Genzel: Well, she is on the tour.
• 30:08
  Lee Marshall: She knew you were going be on the tour. She was trying to get me to let you know.
• 30:11
  Lee Marshall: And basically what it all boiled down to was, Sylvia just wanted them to know that she was good.
• 30:16
  Lee Marshall: She was good. She was OK. It was a really cool experience. Yeah.
• 30:19
  Carrie Genzel: my gosh, Lee, that's crazy. Now that's really interesting because I've heard from different people at times
• 30:26
  Carrie Genzel: that when somebody crosses over, that there's kind of a period where you probably won't hear from them,
• 30:34
  Carrie Genzel: right? That there's kind of this period of time where if it's very recent that like people will,
• 30:41
  Carrie Genzel: and I've had this too when my grandmother passed, was asleep and I saw what I thought somebody turned the
• 30:49
  Carrie Genzel: light on in my room. And I woke
• 30:52
  Lee Marshall: Mm-hmm.
• 30:53
  Carrie Genzel: up because I thought, who the hell just walked in my room and turned the light on?
• 30:53
  Carrie Genzel: And then I opened
• 30:54
  Lee Marshall: Thanks.
• 30:56
  Carrie Genzel: my eyes and the lights were off. But I saw this flash of light, right? And so I think people have those experiences
• 31:03
  Carrie Genzel: as somebody's leaving, right? But then I've heard that there's sort of this period where this rest period,
• 31:10
  Carrie Genzel: right? And so it's interesting to me that Sylvia had only been about three weeks,
• 31:15
  Carrie Genzel: but there she was. She was like, not going to miss that tour.
• 31:19
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, yeah, and she wanted them to know that she was good. Which I think I'll pass.
• 31:22
  Carrie Genzel: And what's trippy is like she was letting you know for a while beforehand.
• 31:27
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 31:28
  Carrie Genzel: Maybe her dates were off. Her calendar was off on the other side. She's like,
• 31:32
  Carrie Genzel: I know it.
• 31:33
  Lee Marshall: Or she knows how hard I am at kind of interpreting stuff. So she was like, let me start working on them now.
• 31:39
  Carrie Genzel: She's like, I'm just going to keep telling him my name and eventually he's going to catch on.
• 31:45
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, it was very interesting. So that kind of stuff happens more often than I actually see like spirits moving
• 31:52
  Lee Marshall: around.
• 31:53
  Carrie Genzel: now I was going to jump to this. So this is you
• 31:55
  Lee Marshall: this.
• 31:56
  Carrie Genzel: doing your two. love your, of course, look at you here. So fabulous. But you,
• 32:01
  Carrie Genzel: on top of your tours, this is why you're such an incredible storyteller. Look at this is incredible to me.
• 32:09
  Carrie Genzel: Like you are such a performer and we'll go back to this, but you're such an incredible performer,
• 32:16
  Carrie Genzel: vocalist, actor. storyteller. So you're so great to, you know, do the tours and bring these stories to life,
• 32:24
  Carrie Genzel: I think like you're just the perfect person because and you love them so much the stories and just with people
• 32:32
  Lee Marshall: I do. I do.
• 32:34
  Carrie Genzel: and stuff like that. I love that you you all get into character and bring people on an adventure for the night.
• 32:43
  Lee Marshall: Plus I get to wear a costume.
• 32:46
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 32:47
  Lee Marshall: Period costumes, I love period costumes.
• 32:50
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 32:50
  Lee Marshall: Obviously the one with the big black wig is not on my tour.
• 32:55
  Carrie Genzel: That was not, that was a performance, yeah, theater. But I think, you know,
• 32:59
  Carrie Genzel: I wonder, and this is something that we explored with that project, SASS, right?
• 33:04
  Carrie Genzel: Because we would have you guys dress up in costumes to communicate
• 33:09
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 33:10
  Carrie Genzel: like in a way that coordinated to that person's story. And we got a lot of activity and I'd like to think
• 33:17
  Carrie Genzel: that it worked, right? Like, and people do do that when they investigate sometimes or they have trigger objects.
• 33:24
  Carrie Genzel: objects or so forth. because you're out there consistently and you are dressed in a certain period,
• 33:31
  Carrie Genzel: do you think that the spirits that may be roaming around that may kind of recognize that type and style of
• 33:38
  Carrie Genzel: dress feel more comfortable coming to you?
• 33:41
  Lee Marshall: I think so. think sometimes it's a situation where they're like, I recognize that.
• 33:45
  Lee Marshall: Like, I can identify with what that person's wearing and they may feel that they can come to me that I'll
• 33:52
  Lee Marshall: recognize them.
• 33:53
  Carrie Genzel: All right.
• 33:54
  Lee Marshall: A lot of times I don't see them in full form like that I have, but yeah, I think it definitely can create
• 34:01
  Lee Marshall: a situation where they feel a little bit more connected to you because you look like what they identify as.
• 34:09
  Carrie Genzel: what they're used to. Right, right.
• 34:10
  Lee Marshall: would be wearing right in your timeframe.
• 34:13
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, I think so. And I think that they do know who can, who they can communicate with.
• 34:18
  Carrie Genzel: think that there's a little, whatever it may be, a little sparkle that happens where they're like,
• 34:23
  Carrie Genzel: yeah,
• 34:24
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, I think it's an ARC situation, yeah.
• 34:27
  Carrie Genzel: where they're like, I know that person. I know that person is going to see me.
• 34:31
  Carrie Genzel: I know that person is going to get it. I always say that because I know working with Morrighan Lynne on Echoes
• 34:37
  Carrie Genzel: of the South and then also Macon Beyond always says like for her, she knows where there's a lot of activity
• 34:43
  Carrie Genzel: because it lights up like it literally lights up. And she kind of talks about that in terms of herself as
• 34:49
  Carrie Genzel: well of like, I'm going to light myself up so that they know it is that kind of moth to a flame,
• 34:55
  Carrie Genzel: right? Of
• 34:56
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Carrie Genzel: like, I'm going to turn myself on so that the antennas on and they know that they can come and talk.
• 35:01
  Lee Marshall: they can come to you. Yes.
• 35:02
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, and I think probably when you're when you've got a group out there and you're wanting to give them a
• 35:08
  Carrie Genzel: great a great night and a great show, essentially, you know, you probably do have that energy of like,
• 35:13
  Carrie Genzel: you know, if anyone wants to come and talk, you know, we're here. And so
• 35:18
  Lee Marshall: us.
• 35:18
  Carrie Genzel: those who are game to communicate come forward.
• 35:22
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. And that's pretty much how I'll say it out, especially when we're in the cemetery.
• 35:27
  Lee Marshall: Like, hey, we're here. If you want us to see you, please come closer. You know,
• 35:32
  Lee Marshall: and because a lot of times when people are taking photos, they capture it. yeah.
• 35:37
  Carrie Genzel: I'm going to pull up these cemetery pictures because we're talking about the cemetery.
• 35:41
  Carrie Genzel: and for those of you that are just listening to the audio, you'll have to check us out on on the video version
• 35:48
  Carrie Genzel: of Echoes of the South because these are he's got some incredible evidence photos and I'll include them on
• 35:54
  Carrie Genzel: the website as well. But walk us through what we're seeing here. Now, you were explaining to me that these
• 36:00
  Carrie Genzel: photos all come from people on your tour and they show them to you and send them to you.
• 36:05
  Carrie Genzel: when you're still on the tour. So these have
• 36:08
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 36:09
  Carrie Genzel: not been manipulated at all like after the fact.
• 36:12
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, correct. In fact, that's something I asked them to do while the tour is going on because Photoshop is
• 36:18
  Lee Marshall: so good nowadays and I'm pretty sure no one while they're taking my tour is on Photoshop trying to manipulate
• 36:24
  Lee Marshall: a picture. Typically how it happens is When we're at each location, I tell them the history,
• 36:30
  Lee Marshall: tell them some stories, I tell them some of the paranormal events that we have experienced in the past,
• 36:36
  Lee Marshall: and then I let them start to kind of roam a little bit around. They're always in my sight line.
• 36:42
  Lee Marshall: But typically what will happen is someone will take a photo, they'll come right over to me because they just
• 36:48
  Lee Marshall: looked at the photo they took and they're like, what is that? And they'll hold their phone up to me,
• 36:54
  Lee Marshall: I'm like, oh, that's a good shot. Text it to me right now.
• 36:58
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, that texted to me right now.
• 37:01
  Lee Marshall: Right now and that's that's the only photos I will ever share on my tour is photos that have been given to
• 37:06
  Lee Marshall: me while the tour is in progress because Photoshop is
• 37:09
  Carrie Genzel: That's a great way to weed that out. Because yeah, people sometimes get excited or they may enhance something
• 37:13
  Carrie Genzel: because they're like, is it a shadow or you know, and like we can do all that stuff on our phones nowadays.
• 37:18
  Carrie Genzel: Like it's so crazy. Yeah. So what are we
• 37:20
  Lee Marshall: yes, exactly.
• 37:22
  Carrie Genzel: seeing in this in this this bigger photo here? This one it looks like I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
• 37:28
  Carrie Genzel: I was like, is that a fairy? What is that?
• 37:31
  Lee Marshall: I know, you know, like, like when I really look close at this photo to me, the hairdo looks more like a Gibson
• 37:37
  Lee Marshall: hairstyle,
• 37:38
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 37:39
  Lee Marshall: but it almost looks like it's a person doing a can can dance. I'm not sure.
• 37:42
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 37:43
  Carrie Genzel: Okay, I'm like somebody's like, it's like, whoo, like, yeah.
• 37:48
  Lee Marshall: Or it was just caught in movement. But that was a very interesting photo because that That photo was actually
• 37:54
  Lee Marshall: captured at it was during the summer and this last summer actually. And that was it was still daylight when
• 38:01
  Lee Marshall: that photo took place, which was very interesting.
• 38:05
  Carrie Genzel: It's so wild.
• 38:10
  Lee Marshall: A lot of these photos like when I'm in the cemetery, I will always feel the presence of spirits.
• 38:16
  Lee Marshall: I always do. I
• 38:18
  Carrie Genzel: Mm-hmm.
• 38:18
  Lee Marshall: always get almost like a collective feeling that they're all watching. Never a scary or spooky kind of way
• 38:24
  Lee Marshall: or
• 38:25
  Carrie Genzel: down.
• 38:25
  Lee Marshall: anything way by any means. But, so I always know that they're around, but it's always fun when people walk
• 38:30
  Lee Marshall: up with their photo or the cameras in their hands or their phones and say, Hey,
• 38:34
  Lee Marshall: can you explain to me what or who this is? I'm like, yeah. And I always explained to them when you take a
• 38:39
  Lee Marshall: photo, you see something, if it looks, if it's very solid, it looks like a person look around you because
• 38:44
  Lee Marshall: there could be somebody on the tour. Yes.
• 38:47
  Carrie Genzel: Right. Right. Or just someone at the cemetery walking through. Right.
• 38:52
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 38:53
  Carrie Genzel: Exactly. Because I'm sure that when you're when you are giving the tour, anyone that may be in the vicinity
• 38:58
  Carrie Genzel: may be kind of rubbernecking or listening to kind of hear what you're saying or interested in what you're
• 39:04
  Carrie Genzel: doing. So I'm sure that that does happen, that there's some stragglers that kind of follow you through to
• 39:09
  Carrie Genzel: kind of hear what the stories are. But this to
• 39:12
  Lee Marshall: you know.
• 39:12
  Carrie Genzel: me doesn't even look like I mean, is it I mean, it almost looks like it's floating like
• 39:17
  Lee Marshall: That to me, yeah, that looks, and the interesting thing about this cemetery is it's the oldest cemetery outside
• 39:25
  Lee Marshall: of the downtown district, which, so it's the second oldest cemetery in San Antonio.
• 39:31
  Lee Marshall: It's right in middle of a cemetery district now of 31 different cemeteries.
• 39:37
  Lee Marshall: So there's tons of cemetery around us at this point, but every once in a you will get somebody that is wandering
• 39:45
  Lee Marshall: through.
• 39:46
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 39:47
  Lee Marshall: that lives in the
• 39:47
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 39:48
  Lee Marshall: area and happens to see a group of people walking through the cemetery like,
• 39:51
  Lee Marshall: what are they doing?
• 39:52
  Carrie Genzel: Exactly. Well, especially if you're in a particular dress and
• 39:57
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Carrie Genzel: I know that you've got a bit of a dramatic flair to you in your storytelling,
• 40:01
  Carrie Genzel: which is fabulous.
• 40:02
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, yeah. It's even more fun when I'm wearing my cloak. My top hat and cloak.
• 40:07
  Carrie Genzel: I love that cloak. That's right. Then they're looking at you and thinking, what am I seeing?
• 40:11
  Carrie Genzel: Is that a spirit? That's right.
• 40:13
  Lee Marshall: Right, right, they're like, holy crap.
• 40:16
  Carrie Genzel: That's right. They're like, they're coming out of the graves tonight. What is this middle picture that we're
• 40:22
  Carrie Genzel: looking at? Because this is also really interesting.
• 40:26
  Lee Marshall: So this is something, you know, I liked this photo a lot because there seems to be a face added to it.
• 40:31
  Lee Marshall: Like it's. When I show this picture on my tour, a lot of people say it looks like Beetlejuice,
• 40:36
  Lee Marshall: which always makes me giggle because it kind of does.
• 40:39
  Carrie Genzel: It kinda does.
• 40:40
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, like a Beetlejuice. What's interesting is he's very close to where we are.
• 40:44
  Lee Marshall: And I say he just because he's wearing trousers or seems to be wearing.
• 40:48
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, well, yeah, I kind of got male too. Yeah.
• 40:53
  Lee Marshall: But yeah. Someone just happened to snap that photo and turn around and was like,
• 40:58
  Lee Marshall: what is that? And I was like, that's a good one. But the next one's even better.
• 41:04
  Carrie Genzel: That is a good one. And what's wild, Lee, is like, you're all standing there and no one's seeing anything
• 41:10
  Carrie Genzel: in person. It's just they're snapping pictures and looking at it in real time and saying,
• 41:15
  Carrie Genzel: holy smokes, what is this? So that's what's really trippy is that nobody in person is like going,
• 41:20
  Carrie Genzel: it's, you know, I, yeah, I see someone or, or maybe that's the tree or, know,
• 41:25
  Carrie Genzel: everyone's looking at that and going, there's nothing there. Right.
• 41:29
  Lee Marshall: Right. Yeah. And every once in a while, like I will see sometimes I'll see a shadowy figure form and kind
• 41:35
  Lee Marshall: of the way I describe it to the people on my tour is when when I see them start to form,
• 41:41
  Lee Marshall: it's kind of like what it looks like when a tornado starts to form before it hits
• 41:47
  Carrie Genzel: Mm-hmm.
• 41:47
  Lee Marshall: the ground. You don't see the funnel. But once it hits the ground, it pulls up the dirt.
• 41:50
  Lee Marshall: Then you see the funnel. But then it
• 41:52
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 41:52
  Lee Marshall: leaves the ground, all the dirt kind of dissipates and it goes, it kind of disappears again.
• 41:56
  Lee Marshall: That to me is exactly what these shadow figures at the cemetery look like when they appear and disappear.
• 42:02
  Lee Marshall: They kind of like
• 42:03
  Carrie Genzel: interesting.
• 42:03
  Lee Marshall: whirling in, take form, and then whirl right back out. And that's when I do see them.
• 42:08
  Lee Marshall: Most of the time when someone sees something, it's usually what they'll describe as a shadow figure darting
• 42:16
  Lee Marshall: by us and it's
• 42:17
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 42:17
  Lee Marshall: usually peripheral vision. But on occasion, I've had three different occasions where I've had entire groups
• 42:23
  Lee Marshall: of 33 people standing together watching a shadow form walking across about 20 feet in front of us.
• 42:30
  Lee Marshall: And everyone's taken photos and videos and I'll have to find that video because I do have a video of it.
• 42:37
  Carrie Genzel: Wow, that's really, you know where that happened to me a lot in terms of in my peripheral vision and the darting
• 42:43
  Carrie Genzel: and the running bias was at the Queen Mary. Did you ever go to the Queen Mary in Long Beach?
• 42:49
  Lee Marshall: Yes, we used to stay there every year. We'd stay there for two weeks. Yes,
• 42:52
  Carrie Genzel: For two weeks, wow.
• 42:55
  Lee Marshall: it was the best. All we would do is eat, sleep, nap, walk around the Queen Mary shit and do it again.
• 43:02
  Lee Marshall: Eat, sleep, and nap. It was the best.
• 43:05
  Carrie Genzel: You know, it's been a long time since I've been there. And when I stayed there,
• 43:09
  Carrie Genzel: I just went for a weekend with a friend. They were not talking about the activity at all then.
• 43:15
  Carrie Genzel: Like they didn't
• 43:16
  Lee Marshall: Really?
• 43:17
  Carrie Genzel: have ghost tours, they didn't have anything. And they were in the staff wouldn't even talk to you about it.
• 43:22
  Carrie Genzel: We found like a few of the maintenance people like that work at night that would talk to us about what they
• 43:28
  Carrie Genzel: experience. Now they fully embrace it. And it's been on every show and everything.
• 43:32
  Carrie Genzel: But then, you you could find kind of threads online of people that had had experiences.
• 43:37
  Carrie Genzel: And that was what kind of got me interested. And then a friend of mine was interested in going.
• 43:42
  Carrie Genzel: So I'm like, let's go. And we, I mean, we would like sleep during the day, essentially,
• 43:47
  Carrie Genzel: right? Go have a great dinner.
• 43:49
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 43:50
  Carrie Genzel: And then we would just go explore all evening and like figure out all the nooks and crannies of how to get
• 43:54
  Carrie Genzel: down to certain decks that you weren't really supposed to be at at night.
• 43:58
  Lee Marshall: out.
• 43:59
  Carrie Genzel: But I noticed a lot of that activity of the rushing, which would make sense,
• 44:04
  Carrie Genzel: right? You think of like it being used in wartime, like the soldiers rushing and rushing.
• 44:11
  Carrie Genzel: And I did actually see a uniformed soldier on one of the lower decks that was closed at the time.
• 44:18
  Carrie Genzel: It would be open during like regular hours, but not at 3 a.m. And
• 44:23
  Lee Marshall: Right.
• 44:23
  Carrie Genzel: we walked in and I saw him like put his hand on the railing and kind of do this and look and then he moved
• 44:29
  Carrie Genzel: back.
• 44:30
  Lee Marshall: Thank
• 44:32
  Carrie Genzel: You know how sometimes you just say things and you don't know why? Like in the moment when I saw that I just
• 44:37
  Carrie Genzel: said, they know we're here. And my friend was like, what do you mean? What does that mean?
• 44:42
  Carrie Genzel: I'm like, I don't know. just, I don't know why I said that, but they know we're here.
• 44:47
  Lee Marshall: love the Queen Mary so much. if, I always recommend when people ask me where they should go,
• 44:52
  Lee Marshall: especially, well, obviously in Long Beach, go to the Queen Mary. It's an experience.
• 44:57
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, it's really stunning.
• 45:00
  Lee Marshall: And I would do the same thing. I would sleep most of the day and at 3 a.m. I'd be walking around
• 45:06
  Carrie Genzel: That's right.
• 45:06
  Lee Marshall: and I would always run into somebody else that was staying there like, are you ghost hunting?
• 45:09
  Lee Marshall: I'm like, yep. And they would
• 45:11
  Carrie Genzel: Yow.
• 45:11
  Lee Marshall: join me and I'd take them on a little mini tour.
• 45:13
  Carrie Genzel: I don't want to say how we got around, you know, but
• 45:18
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 45:18
  Carrie Genzel: we did find some ways to get in and out. And we did
• 45:20
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 45:21
  Carrie Genzel: get caught by security one time and we just played dumb. But that's right. I was like,
• 45:24
  Lee Marshall: We're so lost. We're so lost.
• 45:28
  Carrie Genzel: I told you this wasn't the way to go. I every time, every time he leads us down the wrong.
• 45:33
  Carrie Genzel: This isn't the buffet. my gosh. Okay. That's that's where we were.
• 45:37
  Lee Marshall: Right, and you're below the water level all the way down to the bottom of the stream.
• 45:41
  Lee Marshall: I knew this wasn't the buffet.
• 45:43
  Carrie Genzel: I was just looking for a whiskey sour and now we're in the bottom of the ship.
• 45:44
  Carrie Genzel: I don't know how this happened. So,
• 45:45
  Lee Marshall: Right, come on. I love it. I love it.
• 45:51
  Carrie Genzel: and we did also have some activity in our room
• 45:54
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 45:54
  Carrie Genzel: while we were out running amok. When we got back to our room, there was a depression in our bed and it looked
• 46:02
  Carrie Genzel: like somebody had been sitting there at the end of the bed. So I was like, we
• 46:08
  Lee Marshall: What?
• 46:09
  Carrie Genzel: were out looking for them and they were just waiting for us in the room.
• 46:12
  Lee Marshall: They're like, we're here.
• 46:13
  Carrie Genzel: They're like, where are they?
• 46:16
  Lee Marshall: I think it was the first time we stayed there. The state room they put us in was my favorite too,
• 46:22
  Lee Marshall: because when you walked in, it was a long hallway inside your
• 46:26
  Carrie Genzel: yeah.
• 46:26
  Lee Marshall: state room. And then it opened up to your state room and the bathroom was at the other end of the hallway.
• 46:29
  Lee Marshall: So when you were in bed, though, if you looked to your right, you looked all the way down the hallway to the
• 46:33
  Lee Marshall: bathroom, bathroom. And I would
• 46:35
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 46:36
  Lee Marshall: see a woman every night coming out of the bathroom wearing a beautiful evening gown.
• 46:39
  Lee Marshall: I would say
• 46:40
  Carrie Genzel: right.
• 46:40
  Lee Marshall: probably night. maybe late 40s, early 50s probably.
• 46:46
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 46:46
  Lee Marshall: About like a T-length almost though. Like so it was sparkly, was, I remember it was like a pinkish kind of
• 46:51
  Lee Marshall: color. It was really pretty. She didn't notice I was there so I don't know if she was residual or...
• 46:57
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, maybe, maybe that was a suite that they stayed in often and or yeah,
• 47:02
  Lee Marshall: It was a pretty sweet too.
• 47:05
  Carrie Genzel: yeah, there's so much history there. You know, now it's it's been investigated so much.
• 47:10
  Carrie Genzel: But I remember going there and just it was like trying to get information out of people was so tough.
• 47:16
  Carrie Genzel: But I remember there was a guy that was a night guy who did like maintenance and things.
• 47:22
  Carrie Genzel: And, you know, they have those beautiful sort of art deco. elevator doors, right,
• 47:27
  Carrie Genzel: and in the
• 47:28
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 47:29
  Carrie Genzel: middle of the ship. And he said, it's not uncommon for me, because that's where we met him.
• 47:33
  Carrie Genzel: We bumped into him. He said, it's not uncommon that I stand at this elevator and somebody will walk up behind
• 47:37
  Carrie Genzel: me and I'll turn around to greet them and there's no one there. And I was like,
• 47:41
  Carrie Genzel: yes. I said, well, we're actually here. That's why he said, that's why I turned
• 47:45
  Lee Marshall: I left. was something. We're really here. There's something about that.
• 47:51
  Carrie Genzel: around, because I wasn't sure if you were a real person or not.
• 47:56
  Lee Marshall: Really something about that ship that I always felt that was like our stay kay like when we wanted
• 48:01
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 48:01
  Lee Marshall: to away from the daily grind we would go to the Queen Mary and
• 48:05
  Carrie Genzel: down.
• 48:06
  Lee Marshall: you know I think at the least a week usually two weeks and by the time you're done you're like I am refreshed
• 48:11
  Lee Marshall: I did nothing
• 48:12
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 48:13
  Lee Marshall: but eat and sleep and watch TV and walk around a ship loved it I missed that
• 48:19
  Carrie Genzel: And you do feel you kind of you really do feel like you step back in time to another age,
• 48:25
  Carrie Genzel: you know, of travel being very glamorous and and it does sort of feel like time slows down a little bit once
• 48:32
  Carrie Genzel: you board the ship. Yeah, it's really special.
• 48:36
  Lee Marshall: Yes, I love it. It's the only ship I'll ever sleep on because I don't want to be out in the ocean on a ship.
• 48:40
  Lee Marshall: So since that one's safely docked,
• 48:42
  Carrie Genzel: Right. That's right.
• 48:45
  Lee Marshall: never move. Although I don't know if you've ever noticed, you can actually feel it slightly tilt.
• 48:50
  Carrie Genzel: Yes.
• 48:52
  Lee Marshall: I'm like, this is not fun.
• 48:54
  Carrie Genzel: I, yes, you do feel it a little bit. Now, you know, one thing I do want to ask you,
• 48:58
  Carrie Genzel: we did go off course here because we were in the cemetery in San Antonio. Now we're in Long Beach.
• 49:03
  Carrie Genzel: But one thing I do want to ask you about, and I don't know if that if of the times that you were there,
• 49:08
  Carrie Genzel: did you ever go down to the propeller room? You know, it's that area, it's like,
• 49:12
  Carrie Genzel: part of the tour and
• 49:14
  Lee Marshall: yes.
• 49:15
  Carrie Genzel: you can see one of the propellers. So they built like a box. Yes. And there's like a little
• 49:17
  Lee Marshall: in the water. Yes.
• 49:19
  Carrie Genzel: fake scuba dude down there so you can see how big it is. Okay.
• 49:22
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 49:23
  Carrie Genzel: So one of the nights that we were down there after hours, we had not
• 49:27
  Lee Marshall: you
• 49:28
  Carrie Genzel: taken the tour. So I didn't know it was there. I didn't know what it was. I didn't know anything.
• 49:33
  Carrie Genzel: My
• 49:34
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 49:34
  Carrie Genzel: friend and I had kind of split up and I walked in there by myself. And the minute that I walked in there,
• 49:41
  Carrie Genzel: I went and I like got stuck to the wall
• 49:44
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 49:45
  Carrie Genzel: and I like stood there and I couldn't stop staring at the propeller and my friend comes in and he's like,
• 49:50
  Carrie Genzel: what the hell is going on? Like you are white as a sheet. Like I said, I don't know,
• 49:55
  Carrie Genzel: I don't like this room. And it wasn't until the next day we made the point of taking the tour because I'm
• 50:01
  Carrie Genzel: like, what the heck is with this room that I
• 50:04
  Lee Marshall: right?
• 50:05
  Carrie Genzel: realized why I didn't like that room. Because going back to when they did strip it and they used it in war,
• 50:12
  Carrie Genzel: right? It was the Grey Ghost. There was that incident where that boat got in front of them and they had to
• 50:19
  Carrie Genzel: drive
• 50:20
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 50:21
  Carrie Genzel: over it and all those men got sucked underneath and chewed up in the propeller.
• 50:25
  Carrie Genzel: And that just made my heart sink. But I wondered if you'd ever been in there and if you had a weird feeling.
• 50:30
  Carrie Genzel: Because I've heard of other people going in there and getting a weird feeling.
• 50:35
  Lee Marshall: You know, that's so funny that you say that because I went in there on the Titanic tour because they use that
• 50:41
  Lee Marshall: as a part of the Titanic tour that when the Titanic was touring, it's still touring,
• 50:46
  Lee Marshall: but they had it there and I was like, perfect place to go see a Titanic exhibit.
• 50:50
  Lee Marshall: And
• 50:51
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 50:52
  Lee Marshall: I had never been to that area. And I remember looking at the propeller and realizing I'm in a room that's
• 50:58
  Lee Marshall: been built outside of the ship. I, you can see, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 51:04
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 51:04
  Lee Marshall: at all and I don't know if it's I have a fear of ships and being in the ocean anyway so I don't know that's
• 51:08
  Lee Marshall: what it was but I remember specifically not liking that room yeah I don't like that I mean can swim and all
• 51:12
  Lee Marshall: but I don't like that
• 51:13
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, because you are below the water line, technically. Yeah, yeah. It's a creepy room.
• 51:18
  Carrie Genzel: If there's anyone else out there that's had a weird experience in that room,
• 51:22
  Carrie Genzel: I did see somebody recently on social media that was posting about it because they had had a weird experience
• 51:28
  Carrie Genzel: in there. The thing that
• 51:30
  Lee Marshall: Interesting.
• 51:30
  Carrie Genzel: was also strange about that room. So it's completely closed off. It's not exposed to the outdoors at all.
• 51:36
  Carrie Genzel: Right. There was over the propeller. There was like this little dimple in the water that kept happening,
• 51:43
  Carrie Genzel: like a drip. But there was no drip and there was no dripping in that room. It was the weirdest thing.
• 51:49
  Carrie Genzel: Like right over the pillar I'd see like, you know, almost like a drop, like this little dimple in the water.
• 51:56
  Lee Marshall: Right. Right.
• 51:58
  Carrie Genzel: It was odd. This is what happens when you sneak down at three o'clock in the morning.
• 52:03
  Lee Marshall: See, you're braver than I am. I I snuck down. I mean, actually, I technically did not sneak down to the pool,
• 52:08
  Lee Marshall: the first class pool, but
• 52:10
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 52:11
  Lee Marshall: one of the workers let me in. Yeah. He was like, if you go through this way and he unlocked the door and I'm
• 52:15
  Lee Marshall: like, are you serious? He was like, just be careful and don't stay too long.
• 52:19
  Lee Marshall: I was like, okay.
• 52:20
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 52:21
  Lee Marshall: And I was by myself. So that
• 52:22
  Carrie Genzel: wow.
• 52:23
  Lee Marshall: was fun. But I remember walking around looking at the pool. I did not go down to the pull level.
• 52:29
  Lee Marshall: I wanted to, but I think I got a little spooked if I recall correctly.
• 52:35
  Carrie Genzel: There's a lot of lore around that pool. don't even know if you can go in there now,
• 52:39
  Carrie Genzel: but...
• 52:40
  Lee Marshall: last time I stayed there they had it closed off that
• 52:42
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 52:43
  Lee Marshall: it's no longer accessible I think you could see it through one of the doors if you look through them
• 52:45
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, can you can look in I think.
• 52:49
  Lee Marshall: yeah I missed the Queen Mary so much
• 52:53
  Carrie Genzel: I know that's a good road trip.
• 52:55
  Lee Marshall: that's definitely a good road trip
• 52:57
  Carrie Genzel: All right, let's dive into this last photo here and what we're seeing.
• 53:41
  Lee Marshall: yes. So this one's a very interesting photo. I actually have another photo that I carried for quite a while,
• 53:47
  Lee Marshall: but I never showed it on the tour. But it looks very similar to this. The reason I showed this is because
• 53:54
  Lee Marshall: it's a lot clearer and there's a story behind what we feel is a little girl that will show up at the cemetery
• 54:01
  Lee Marshall: while we're there on tour. She doesn't do it often, but periodically she will make her presence
• 54:07
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 54:09
  Lee Marshall: kind of known. and she actually will start giggling. It's like she's kind of playing around with us.
• 54:15
  Lee Marshall: Specifically, the mamas in the group will start filling their clothing, being tugged,
• 54:20
  Lee Marshall: or getting tapped, or someone is trying to hold their hand, and they'll turn around to see who's just grabbed
• 54:28
  Lee Marshall: their hand and there's no one there. But I love this photo because this was another moment where a guy took
• 54:34
  Lee Marshall: a photo, and literally, this is right after I told him about the little girl.
• 54:39
  Lee Marshall: Because I prefaced it like keep your ears open guys because sometimes we'll hear a little girl giggling and
• 54:46
  Lee Marshall: take photos. He turned around was like, who is that? And I was like, yep. And y'all this is a little girl.
• 54:53
  Lee Marshall: We don't have little girls on our nighttime tours.
• 54:57
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 54:58
  Lee Marshall: It's an adult tour. But granted when I looked at it first I had to make sure no one on our tour matched that
• 55:07
  Lee Marshall: description. But yeah.
• 55:09
  Carrie Genzel: What I love about this photo is so funny because I was looking at it and I'm like,
• 55:11
  Carrie Genzel: God, I don't see her. And then you just see her like, like,
• 55:14
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 55:15
  Carrie Genzel: but what I love about it is to me, it almost looks like the one arm. It's like a kid who's like,
• 55:20
  Carrie Genzel: come on, come on, come on. that, like it's. Yeah.
• 55:24
  Lee Marshall: Yes, like let's Yeah. Yeah.
• 55:29
  Carrie Genzel: And the long hair and the... yeah.
• 55:31
  Lee Marshall: I mean, on the creepier note, it does kind of look like Samara from The Ring.
• 55:36
  Lee Marshall: But I
• 55:37
  Carrie Genzel: A little bit, a little bit.
• 55:39
  Lee Marshall: like just I like to think, I mean, she's never done anything frightening. She's always been very
• 55:43
  Carrie Genzel: No.
• 55:44
  Lee Marshall: loving and she's very enamored with the nurturing kind of individuals on the tour,
• 55:47
  Lee Marshall: specifically
• 55:48
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 55:49
  Lee Marshall: women. every once in a while, a man will experience her and.
• 55:53
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah,
• 55:54
  Lee Marshall: I'm like, Yeah.
• 55:54
  Carrie Genzel: she looks like she's like, come let me show you, let me show you. Now what's also interesting is like I'm
• 56:00
  Carrie Genzel: seeing kind of a sort of blur, like there's something kind of above too, like there's,
• 56:05
  Carrie Genzel: I don't know what that is, like it's almost like something else is trying to manifest or if it's just her
• 56:11
  Carrie Genzel: energy because she's in movement.
• 56:13
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, I think I don't know. Yeah.
• 56:16
  Carrie Genzel: that's fascinating. That's a great capture. Holy smokes.
• 56:19
  Lee Marshall: That's a good one.
• 56:20
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah. my gosh. Well, I know you
• 56:22
  Lee Marshall: Bye.
• 56:23
  Carrie Genzel: brought you brought more because gosh,
• 56:25
  Lee Marshall: yes.
• 56:26
  Carrie Genzel: where do you where to next? This is I feel like I'm on a tour with you.
• 56:32
  Lee Marshall: Wherever you want. Whatever comes up. Let's let's talk about it. Let's. OK.
• 56:34
  Lee Marshall: Yes. Yes.
• 56:35
  Carrie Genzel: All right, let's see what we have next. Yes.
• 56:41
  Lee Marshall: So this is a very interesting spot. This is the Casa Navarro, which is a it's the only intact homestead in
• 56:49
  Lee Marshall: San Antonio. This homestead was built when this was still Mexico. And Jose Navarro.
• 56:56
  Lee Marshall: was one of two statesmen to actually sign the Texas Declaration of Independence.
• 57:02
  Lee Marshall: He ended up moving to this homestead after his brother who had built it was murdered.
• 57:09
  Lee Marshall: So he moved into the homestead and lived there all the way up until his death in 1871.
• 57:16
  Lee Marshall: But. It is now a museum today and it's it consists of three structures, the main house,
• 57:23
  Lee Marshall: a separate kitchen building and a two story structure that was the Navarro General Store back in the day.
• 57:32
  Carrie Genzel: OK.
• 57:34
  Lee Marshall: The windows that we're looking at right here, it's all the same window and it's of the kitchen structure.
• 57:39
  Lee Marshall: And usually on my tour, my back is facing that window. So everyone's facing me and they're all looking directly
• 57:45
  Lee Marshall: at that window. And many times I can see their eyes drifting from me looking at the window because they keep
• 57:51
  Lee Marshall: seeing stuff move in the window. And then after I, you know, give them the history and whatnot,
• 57:56
  Lee Marshall: I will have the group move to the side and tell them, if you want to take a picture,
• 58:01
  Lee Marshall: go up individually. You know, cause you don't want to take a photo with a big group next to you.
• 58:06
  Lee Marshall: may get all these different reflections. And I said, that's
• 58:10
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 58:10
  Lee Marshall: the only way I know to control because
• 58:12
  Carrie Genzel: Yes.
• 58:13
  Lee Marshall: you'll recognize your reflection. If you used to see you, you in your photo,
• 58:16
  Lee Marshall: but
• 58:17
  Carrie Genzel: Yes.
• 58:17
  Lee Marshall: may not remember who's on on the tour with you when you look at your photo.
• 58:20
  Carrie Genzel: That's right.
• 58:22
  Lee Marshall: The first photo is very interesting to me because when the person took it, they showed it to me.
• 58:28
  Lee Marshall: was like, my gosh, but if you look at the photo, look at the upper right hand window pane,
• 58:34
  Lee Marshall: drop down one window pane. There's
• 58:37
  Carrie Genzel: There's a woman standing there.
• 58:39
  Lee Marshall: a woman. And if you look closer, it looks like she's wearing the, like a prayer veil or a mantilla is what
• 58:44
  Lee Marshall: they'll call it.
• 58:45
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 58:48
  Lee Marshall: But also what's very interesting is it never occurred to me until somebody else on the tour when I was showing
• 58:54
  Lee Marshall: it one night pointed it out. If you look next to her, there's something else next to her.
• 58:59
  Lee Marshall: And if you look about halfway down in the middle of the frame, you kind of only see what looks like maybe
• 59:05
  Lee Marshall: legs.
• 59:06
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 59:08
  Lee Marshall: If you kind of look back at the overall picture, it almost looks like she's standing next to a horse.
• 59:16
  Carrie Genzel: some kind of animal, like I was trying to figure that out, now that you say,
• 59:16
  Carrie Genzel: because I can see an ear for sure that looks like a horse ear.
• 59:17
  Lee Marshall: or animal, right? Right. Could be a cow. Yeah, could be a cow, could be a horse.
• 59:25
  Lee Marshall: I don't know. But that was the kitchen. I don't know if, you know, I just it was weird.
• 59:34
  Carrie Genzel: It does feel like when I look at the leg, can. Yeah, I feel like it
• 59:38
  Lee Marshall: Right?
• 59:38
  Carrie Genzel: probably would have been a horse or mule, maybe. But you definitely
• 59:41
  Lee Marshall: to the Mule.
• 59:44
  Carrie Genzel: it's so funny when you when you look at images that people, you know, evidence and people take pictures and
• 59:50
  Carrie Genzel: you go, OK, I'm going I'm looking for it. And then when you see it, it's that,
• 59:54
  Carrie Genzel: looking right back at you. That's a great
• 59:57
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Now the...
• 59:59
  Carrie Genzel: capture. Yeah.
• 59:59
  Lee Marshall: That's a fun one, Now, when I first saw that I immediately picked up my phone and just tried to Google what
• 1:00:05
  Lee Marshall: Mrs. Navarro looked like, I did
• 1:00:07
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:00:08
  Lee Marshall: find a painting of her many years later in her life. And I could see resemblance.
• 1:00:13
  Lee Marshall: every time I talk about this photo, I think, dang it, because I always remind myself,
• 1:00:19
  Lee Marshall: go home and do more research to see if I can find a younger
• 1:00:23
  Carrie Genzel: right.
• 1:00:24
  Lee Marshall: depiction of Mrs. Navarro to see if this would match. And then I always forget until I'm talking about it
• 1:00:29
  Lee Marshall: again. So I need to do that.
• 1:00:31
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, we got to figure out what my system now who's in this other this middle photo
• 1:00:37
  Lee Marshall: middle photo. This one got me pretty good. So when you look at it, it's pretty clear.
• 1:00:41
  Lee Marshall: Like there's skin tone. Like I see flesh tone there. What was interesting is when a gentleman walks over to
• 1:00:48
  Lee Marshall: me and shows me the picture and my initial response is, this is a reflection.
• 1:00:52
  Lee Marshall: And then I started looking at the folks on my tour and realized no one matches
• 1:00:57
  Carrie Genzel: looks like that.
• 1:00:58
  Lee Marshall: that reflection. And then I look closer and it seems to me that that looks like a man wearing a priest collar.
• 1:01:06
  Carrie Genzel: wow!
• 1:01:08
  Lee Marshall: If you look really close you'll see...
• 1:01:11
  Carrie Genzel: like a white at the neck.
• 1:01:12
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, like a white collar. And also, I don't think he has legs in this reflection.
• 1:01:18
  Carrie Genzel: I'm not seeing legs, you know, at first I thought it was a woman in a black dress,
• 1:01:21
  Carrie Genzel: but now that you say that and I look at the collar, I see the white collar,
• 1:01:24
  Carrie Genzel: but then I also see the dark and then there's a white where the legs would be like a like fabric though.
• 1:01:29
  Carrie Genzel: So it's like a long like, yeah. So yeah, that's what I see.
• 1:01:32
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Maybe. Like a vestment kind of situation. I don't know. Interesting.
• 1:01:42
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah. And it may be also, are these are the, I'm just looking at the windows to see,
• 1:01:46
  Carrie Genzel: cause we have, our house is from 1940. So some of the windows are the original.
• 1:01:50
  Carrie Genzel: So they have that little bit of a wavy, which it
• 1:01:53
  Lee Marshall: the wavy. Yes. Yes.
• 1:01:55
  Carrie Genzel: looks like this does have, I don't know if those are the original windows, but it does look a little like
• 1:01:57
  Carrie Genzel: the reflection. Yeah, there's a bit of waviness to it, which can also distort it a little.
• 1:02:00
  Lee Marshall: wavy. Now, for sure. Now I have not because where this is located, it's fenced.
• 1:02:07
  Lee Marshall: The building's fenced in and it's after hours. So I don't take people into the courtyard.
• 1:02:15
  Lee Marshall: So we're standing about 20 feet away.
• 1:02:19
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 1:02:20
  Lee Marshall: In this photos, when these photos are taken at least 20 feet away. And
• 1:02:22
  Carrie Genzel: Right. Right.
• 1:02:25
  Lee Marshall: so. I have not now I've looked at some of the other windows that are closer that we can see and those look
• 1:02:31
  Lee Marshall: to be replaced but I cannot tell you for sure if this window has any of the original window panes.
• 1:02:38
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:02:38
  Lee Marshall: That's a good question I didn't think about that because there's another place that we go to that definitely
• 1:02:42
  Lee Marshall: has some original panes that have that kind of blown.
• 1:02:44
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, yeah, would, you know, more so as just thinking of it in terms of the way the image kind of it almost
• 1:02:49
  Carrie Genzel: looks
• 1:02:50
  Lee Marshall: Cheers.
• 1:02:51
  Carrie Genzel: a little like off, like it looks, you know, but I definitely use definitely see skin tone.
• 1:02:58
  Carrie Genzel: You see eyes, you see hair, you see all of it.
• 1:03:03
  Lee Marshall: which I find that seeing skin tone is less common for me in my experience. I usually don't see it with a skin
• 1:03:11
  Lee Marshall: tone. In pictures at least.
• 1:03:14
  Carrie Genzel: And it's so hard to know, you know, is this a residual energy that's just going about
• 1:03:18
  Lee Marshall: Thanks.
• 1:03:18
  Carrie Genzel: its day, going about its business? It's like, you can't come in, you know? Exactly.
• 1:03:21
  Carrie Genzel: What's all this noise outside my window?
• 1:03:23
  Lee Marshall: Right. Or he's like, what are y'all doing? Right.
• 1:03:30
  Carrie Genzel: That's a very, that's an interesting one. Wow. This wasn't on the same tour,
• 1:03:35
  Carrie Genzel: was it? As the,
• 1:03:37
  Lee Marshall: John.
• 1:03:38
  Carrie Genzel: was like, boy, there was a lot going on that day.
• 1:03:40
  Lee Marshall: No, it has happened though. Like I have a lot of photos that were taken at the same time
• 1:03:44
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:03:45
  Lee Marshall: where people have caught, different people caught this.
• 1:03:47
  Carrie Genzel: multiple things. my gosh, I'm just looking at the next one, focusing on the next one.
• 1:03:50
  Carrie Genzel: yeah.
• 1:03:51
  Lee Marshall: Now you see you see the next one, right? Yeah.
• 1:03:58
  Carrie Genzel: What's trippy too about the first one and now this one is that it appears that it's looking right at you all.
• 1:04:03
  Carrie Genzel: Like
• 1:04:04
  Lee Marshall: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:05
  Carrie Genzel: the other one just seems like it's going about its day, but this one's like,
• 1:04:10
  Carrie Genzel: hey, like what are you doing?
• 1:04:12
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, it seems it's I think this is one because I can't it's hard to tell for in the screen here But it isn't
• 1:04:15
  Lee Marshall: this one with it looks like she's maybe holding her arms crossing her arms looking at yeah Yeah Yeah She's
• 1:04:19
  Lee Marshall: like y'all
• 1:04:20
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, she's full on crossing her arms. Like she's like, come on, like, what are you doing?
• 1:04:27
  Lee Marshall: need to be doing something better than talking about dead folks Right we are sleeping
• 1:04:32
  Carrie Genzel: Do you know what time it is? She's definitely crying. She is not happy.
• 1:04:40
  Lee Marshall: Right, so I thought that was funny. There was one night where I had a bachelorette party on the tour,
• 1:04:46
  Lee Marshall: which,
• 1:04:47
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 1:04:49
  Lee Marshall: God bless them, those are hard tours because usually bachelorettes have been drinking.
• 1:04:53
  Lee Marshall: And it was and it's usually the girls that are always the messy ones and the bride to be is the one that's
• 1:04:59
  Lee Marshall: kind of holding them all together. Well, on this night, it was totally opposite.
• 1:05:04
  Lee Marshall: We had a bachelorette who had had a little too much. And by the time we got to this location,
• 1:05:09
  Lee Marshall: she was sitting. There's a two story structure that we're standing next to.
• 1:05:13
  Lee Marshall: She was sitting in the doorway of that. And after the after we finished here,
• 1:05:18
  Lee Marshall: we started walking away and I was like, come on, we got to get back on the bus.
• 1:05:22
  Lee Marshall: And she said, who's inside the building? I was like, what do mean? She was like,
• 1:05:27
  Lee Marshall: there's somebody who's inside the building. They're talking. And I was like,
• 1:05:31
  Lee Marshall: no, I said, this is city owned museum. I guarantee you city workers are not out here at 1130 at night talking
• 1:05:37
  Lee Marshall: in
• 1:05:38
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:05:38
  Lee Marshall: an old museum with the lights out. She was like, well, the whole time you've been talking,
• 1:05:42
  Lee Marshall: I've listened to a woman and a man talking back and forth inside this the just behind the door.
• 1:05:47
  Lee Marshall: I'm like, oh, that's. nice. She really though,
• 1:05:50
  Carrie Genzel: Ooh. Now.
• 1:05:52
  Lee Marshall: she thought it was real people though. That's
• 1:05:54
  Carrie Genzel: That's interesting. What's also interesting as you talk about people that come in and have had a couple of
• 1:06:00
  Carrie Genzel: drinks, because I know like we typically we've done a couple of live events with Macon Beyond in October And
• 1:06:07
  Carrie Genzel: certainly with the last one, because it was a whole evening inside a location here called Burke Mansion,
• 1:06:14
  Carrie Genzel: we very much limited the alcohol consumption just because, you know, again,
• 1:06:19
  Carrie Genzel: Morgan, you know, had said it can be dangerous because we're looking to communicate.
• 1:06:24
  Carrie Genzel: We're opening ourselves up. Our intention is to communicate. And it could make you vulnerable in that situation
• 1:06:31
  Carrie Genzel: if you've
• 1:06:32
  Lee Marshall: Yes. I agree.
• 1:06:34
  Carrie Genzel: had too much to drink. So now when you're doing a tour and you're walking around and you're busing from different
• 1:06:41
  Carrie Genzel: locations, you don't have as much control as when you're inviting people into a location.
• 1:06:46
  Carrie Genzel: have you had problems
• 1:06:48
  Lee Marshall: right.
• 1:06:48
  Carrie Genzel: with that or concerns about that? when you've taken tours out
• 1:06:51
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 1:06:52
  Carrie Genzel: and they're a little tipsy.
• 1:06:54
  Lee Marshall: Yes, on one occasion I've actually had to let them tell them to leave.
• 1:06:59
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 1:06:59
  Lee Marshall: I've had to like stand there and call an Uber for them and have them picked up because they were one too rowdy
• 1:07:05
  Lee Marshall: and getting dangerous.
• 1:07:07
  Carrie Genzel: All
• 1:07:08
  Lee Marshall: I agree. I think when you drink, it lowers your inhibition to begin with. And when you're putting yourself
• 1:07:13
  Lee Marshall: in a situation where you're possibly connecting to other energies from a completely different realm.
• 1:07:19
  Lee Marshall: that can put you at danger. I drinking and
• 1:07:22
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:07:25
  Lee Marshall: should not be going to hand in hand at all.
• 1:07:27
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, that's not and I get that people get nervous and they think and also people think,
• 1:07:30
  Carrie Genzel: well, it's entertainment and we're just here to hear stories. But,
• 1:07:33
  Lee Marshall: Sure. Yeah.
• 1:07:35
  Carrie Genzel: you know, you are there to connect with what may be there and wants to connect.
• 1:07:40
  Carrie Genzel: you again, because you're putting that intention out, it can also attract other things that you don't necessarily
• 1:07:49
  Carrie Genzel: want to connect with, but are aware that you're walking through with a group.
• 1:07:54
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  Lee Marshall: Yes. And I also definitely feel... Go ahead.
• 1:07:56
  Carrie Genzel: And you don't know, like, I know I was going to say, you as the tour guide,
• 1:08:00
  Carrie Genzel: it's like, you don't know what everybody else's energy, the energy they're bringing into the group and what
• 1:08:06
  Carrie Genzel: their intentions are.
• 1:08:08
  Lee Marshall: Right, Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  Carrie Genzel: Right. And that's something that you as the tour guide have to navigate through,
• 1:08:15
  Carrie Genzel: especially because you are getting information sometimes from spirits that may be there.
• 1:08:21
  Carrie Genzel: So you're
• 1:08:22
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 1:08:22
  Carrie Genzel: having to navigate through that energy. the energy of the group, right? And it's
• 1:08:26
  Lee Marshall: Yes. yes.
• 1:08:28
  Carrie Genzel: lot, I know when we do, when we've done the two times we've done live events,
• 1:08:32
  Carrie Genzel: Morgan says it can be really exhausting just going through the group's energy and then trying to sift through
• 1:08:39
  Carrie Genzel: that to get to the spiritual energy that may be there. And
• 1:08:43
  Lee Marshall: Absolutely.
• 1:08:44
  Carrie Genzel: so it's a lot of work that needs to be done. So you're walking into that just completely unaware of what...
• 1:08:51
  Carrie Genzel: spiritually and just energetically what you're going to be working with for that tour.
• 1:08:57
  Lee Marshall: Yes, it's always a surprise. But I also feel when you, regardless of what...
• 1:09:02
  Lee Marshall: substances you're taking, whether it be alcohol or drugs or whatever, and you start to dabble into the paranormal,
• 1:09:11
  Lee Marshall: what I don't think a lot of people realize is there are people who have crossed over who had those issues
• 1:09:19
  Lee Marshall: with those substances. And when you exhibit that type of energy with those substances in you,
• 1:09:25
  Lee Marshall: that attracts that, that type of energy of people who dealt with those kind of things in their lifetime.
• 1:09:33
  Lee Marshall: Like if let's say alcoholics can attract alcoholic ghosts. I mean I know that sounds
• 1:09:40
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:09:40
  Lee Marshall: weird but people who were alcoholics in their lifetime. And a lot of times it can be a little bit more dangerous
• 1:09:47
  Lee Marshall: because then you have a spirit who wants to get that feeling of what is that drinking feeling and they're
• 1:09:53
  Lee Marshall: gonna wanna try to attach to you. Yes.
• 1:09:56
  Carrie Genzel: you're right. didn't think of that. Yeah, just kind of relive that that high or that feeling,
• 1:10:01
  Carrie Genzel: right?
• 1:10:02
  Lee Marshall: Yes. So, and then of course, your inhibitions are low because you've been drinking or whatever you've been
• 1:10:07
  Lee Marshall: consuming. And you may not even be aware it's happening. All of a sudden you start getting these weird thoughts
• 1:10:13
  Lee Marshall: that you've never had before or feelings that you, you normally don't have.
• 1:10:17
  Lee Marshall: know, it's just, it's drugs and alcohol and spirits don't make a good mixture.
• 1:10:21
  Lee Marshall: That don't do it. Right.
• 1:10:23
  Carrie Genzel: That's not a good cocktail. It's just not a good cocktail, folks. Keep them separate.
• 1:10:27
  Carrie Genzel: It is. That's right. And
• 1:10:29
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, definitely separate your recreation from the spirit world.
• 1:10:34
  Carrie Genzel: I think that a lot of times people do it maybe because they get nervous or they don't take it seriously and
• 1:10:41
  Carrie Genzel: they're out to have a good time. But I know that when we've done events, we're very mindful of that just because
• 1:10:49
  Carrie Genzel: we don't want anybody to get. to take anything else home except a really fun evening.
• 1:10:55
  Lee Marshall: Yes, you know, it's not to say you can't have a cocktail before a tour. That's totally fine.
• 1:10:58
  Lee Marshall: But you know, within reason.
• 1:11:00
  Carrie Genzel: Right. But yeah, yeah. And that's and that's what we say. We're like, you know,
• 1:11:03
  Carrie Genzel: have a drink or have a couple of drinks with dinner or whatever you're going to do.
• 1:11:07
  Carrie Genzel: like not. Yeah. It just it it adds a whole other layer of of of
• 1:11:11
  Lee Marshall: This is not a fraud. Yeah.
• 1:11:15
  Carrie Genzel: unexpectedness. And and yeah, it can be dangerous depending on
• 1:11:19
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 1:11:19
  Carrie Genzel: where you're going and what you're encountering.
• 1:11:22
  Lee Marshall: Absolutely.
• 1:11:23
  Carrie Genzel: OK, we have a little bit more. I'm going to jump into.
• 1:11:29
  Lee Marshall: yes, my favorite. Alright.
• 1:11:32
  Carrie Genzel: I mean, first of all, this is a stunning property. mean,
• 1:11:37
  Lee Marshall: It's gorgeous.
• 1:11:38
  Carrie Genzel: it looks like it's from another world, like the other time. I mean, it's so beautifully preserved and gorgeous.
• 1:11:48
  Carrie Genzel: And looking at the image right below the exterior of it, it's undoubtedly an apparition.
• 1:11:56
  Lee Marshall: yeah. The funny thing with this particular photo is our first stop on our bus tour.
• 1:12:03
  Lee Marshall: actually so our tour company is inside this hotel. This is the Mingar Hotel,
• 1:12:09
  Lee Marshall: which stands next door to the Alamo.
• 1:12:13
  Carrie Genzel: wow.
• 1:12:13
  Lee Marshall: So it's on land that the Battle of the Alamo occurred on. already in fact, Alamo,
• 1:12:18
  Lee Marshall: the, the Texas defenders of the Alamo, their bodies were placed in three piles and incinerated where this
• 1:12:25
  Lee Marshall: hotel now stands.
• 1:12:27
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 1:12:28
  Lee Marshall: So right there, you already, you're already working on ground. That's very energetically,
• 1:12:33
  Lee Marshall: active.
• 1:12:34
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 1:12:36
  Lee Marshall: you're about 600 yards from the San Antonio river, which is the original river route.
• 1:12:41
  Lee Marshall: And so people have lived at this spot for hundreds and hundreds of years. And this has been a prime spot where
• 1:12:48
  Lee Marshall: people would battle over for hundreds of years.
• 1:12:51
  Carrie Genzel: I'm right.
• 1:12:51
  Lee Marshall: So you already have a lot of energy with the land to begin with. Then now you have this building that was
• 1:12:57
  Lee Marshall: built in 1859 as a little luxury hotel. It one of the first luxury hotels in San Antonio and it's beautiful.
• 1:13:03
  Lee Marshall: This is my stay kay for San Antonio. This is where I actually will get away for a week.
• 1:13:09
  Carrie Genzel: I love it. That's your new Queen Mary.
• 1:13:12
  Lee Marshall: It really is. It really is. And I don't have to worry about a propeller room.
• 1:13:15
  Carrie Genzel: That's right. I was just going to say is their own
• 1:13:16
  Lee Marshall: But there is a basement to this area. It's scary.
• 1:13:20
  Carrie Genzel: basement.
• 1:13:20
  Lee Marshall: I've only been there once. I'm like, yep, nope, don't need it.
• 1:13:23
  Carrie Genzel: You
• 1:13:25
  Lee Marshall: But like the history of this building is very interesting. Like barbed wire was introduced in front of this
• 1:13:31
  Lee Marshall: building, like barbed wire. It was demonstrated
• 1:13:35
  Carrie Genzel: What? Wow.
• 1:13:36
  Lee Marshall: for its first time to ranchers in and to place your order for barbed wire. You were instructed to go inside
• 1:13:41
  Lee Marshall: the Menger Hotel and place your order.
• 1:13:44
  Carrie Genzel: and get your barbed wire in. Wow, that's trippy.
• 1:13:46
  Lee Marshall: It was an onlookers from what I understand were in awe because what they did was this is in Alamo Plaza.
• 1:13:51
  Lee Marshall: So they herded in a bunch of cattle and they put the barbwire up around them and onlookers were in awe.
• 1:13:56
  Lee Marshall: All these ranchers like I can't believe those cattle aren't because the cattle were like,
• 1:14:01
  Lee Marshall: yeah. Yeah,
• 1:14:02
  Carrie Genzel: because they know the deal. They're like, I don't want to get near that barbed wire.
• 1:14:05
  Lee Marshall: so so this is where you actually placed your order for barbwire, which I thought was really cool.
• 1:14:12
  Lee Marshall: But lots of famous folks here. Ulysses S. Grant, Robert E. Lee, let's see, Del Evans and Roy Rogers stayed
• 1:14:20
  Lee Marshall: here with Trigger.
• 1:14:22
  Carrie Genzel: There you go. There you go.
• 1:14:25
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, Teddy Roosevelt recruited his Rough Riders here in 1898.
• 1:14:28
  Carrie Genzel: Get out, wow.
• 1:14:31
  Lee Marshall: Some of my favorite though, like, Sarah Bernhardt.
• 1:14:34
  Carrie Genzel: Mm-hmm.
• 1:14:35
  Lee Marshall: stayed here when she was doing her final farewell to America tour touring in playing Camille in the stage
• 1:14:40
  Lee Marshall: version of Camille.
• 1:14:41
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 1:14:42
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, golly, cursy Isadora Duncan like the list really goes on and on. It's pretty amazing.
• 1:14:45
  Lee Marshall: But
• 1:14:46
  Carrie Genzel: for sure. In a place like that for come on. Yeah, it's endless. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:14:52
  Lee Marshall: but I love it now. So The photo that you asked about, the one right below the exterior shot,
• 1:14:58
  Lee Marshall: and the photo next to that is the original photo. The one next to it is the blown up version,
• 1:15:04
  Lee Marshall: obviously.
• 1:15:05
  Carrie Genzel: Okay, I see, yep.
• 1:15:07
  Lee Marshall: So during the tour, before this is our first stop, so we leave the shop and go into the old lobby,
• 1:15:12
  Lee Marshall: which is what this is. And we go through the history. talk about some of the paranormal events that have happened.
• 1:15:18
  Lee Marshall: And before we go to the bus, everyone takes a quick bathroom break. And as a guide,
• 1:15:22
  Lee Marshall: we instruct people, please do not wander off. Stay with us because we're about to leave.
• 1:15:27
  Lee Marshall: We don't want to leave you behind. And please don't go upstairs. You know, if you want to tour the hotel,
• 1:15:32
  Lee Marshall: wait till after the tour, because I, as a tour guide, get in trouble. if I allow my tour just to start wandering
• 1:15:38
  Lee Marshall: around.
• 1:15:39
  Carrie Genzel: start wandering around.
• 1:15:41
  Lee Marshall: But the hotel doesn't mind if you do it on your own. So wait, well this young lady decided to go upstairs
• 1:15:46
  Lee Marshall: on this break and took a picture. Now typically I'd been like bad lady. But she got.
• 1:15:51
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah, except when she's coming back with images like this, Lee.
• 1:15:54
  Lee Marshall: I was like, Ooh, that's a good one. So this is actually the third floor. and the windows that you see right
• 1:16:00
  Lee Marshall: behind this apparition are not exterior windows. Those are actually windows into the Sam Houston conference
• 1:16:07
  Lee Marshall: room where Sam Houston used to meet with some of his officials.
• 1:16:11
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 1:16:12
  Lee Marshall: so who this is not quite sure. but it's a good capture. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 1:16:19
  Carrie Genzel: It's an incredible capture. And I'm trying to decide like it, you know, from from behind it,
• 1:16:23
  Carrie Genzel: it's like there's other there's something right. I don't know if it's other people or if it was in motion.
• 1:16:28
  Carrie Genzel: And so it
• 1:16:29
  Lee Marshall: or something. Yes. I don't know either.
• 1:16:35
  Carrie Genzel: kind of but it almost looks like there could be other people standing behind them,
• 1:16:40
  Carrie Genzel: behind this
• 1:16:41
  Lee Marshall: Right.
• 1:16:42
  Carrie Genzel: person that aren't quite as defined.
• 1:16:44
  Lee Marshall: Now, when I'm doing the tour, I'm standing on the bottom floor in the middle.
• 1:16:48
  Lee Marshall: So you could look straight up the rotunda to see the ceiling.
• 1:16:52
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 1:16:54
  Lee Marshall: And I've had many times people on my tour ask me who's up on the third floor,
• 1:16:57
  Lee Marshall: because they keep seeing somebody looking over the balcony.
• 1:17:00
  Carrie Genzel: really?
• 1:17:01
  Lee Marshall: And that's where this individual or this apparition is, on the third floor.
• 1:17:05
  Lee Marshall: Yeah.
• 1:17:06
  Carrie Genzel: It's like my Queen Mary moment. They know we're here. That's kind of what it was like,
• 1:17:08
  Carrie Genzel: because there was a second balcony and somebody looked over. They like to do that.
• 1:17:10
  Carrie Genzel: Like, what are you doing down there?
• 1:17:12
  Lee Marshall: just look down at you. Yes. Now, the picture that's right next to it, the larger shot that you see more of
• 1:17:19
  Lee Marshall: the balcony, if you look to the bottom left of the screen, behind that lamp shade,
• 1:17:26
  Lee Marshall: you see a doorway. That doorway leads to what is known as the King Ranch Suite
• 1:17:32
  Carrie Genzel: Okay.
• 1:17:33
  Lee Marshall: King Ranch, very interesting. So Captain Richard King. owns the King Ranch Suite or owned it,
• 1:17:38
  Lee Marshall: right? Largest ranch
• 1:17:40
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:17:40
  Lee Marshall: in the world at this time, but like over a million acres. But this is where he would stay when he was in San
• 1:17:46
  Lee Marshall: Antonio on business. And he basically purchased a portion of this building,
• 1:17:50
  Lee Marshall: had his own private suite constructed.
• 1:17:53
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 1:17:54
  Lee Marshall: So that doorway leads to his suite. Now what's interesting is, unfortunately,
• 1:17:58
  Lee Marshall: I don't have a photo of it, but many guests at the hotel report walking through the,
• 1:18:02
  Lee Marshall: this old lobby and seeing a man standing on that balcony, the second balcony,
• 1:18:07
  Lee Marshall: second story balcony, holding a large basin. And then they see him throw the basin over the balcony and it
• 1:18:12
  Lee Marshall: smashes on the floor. And of course they rushed to the front desk to say, Hey,
• 1:18:17
  Lee Marshall: you know, some dudes chunking stuff off your, off your balcony in there. They go to investigate it.
• 1:18:22
  Lee Marshall: There's nothing on the floor. There's no man there, but in our research we found that when Richard King would
• 1:18:28
  Lee Marshall: be living there, he apparently was a very impatient man. And
• 1:18:32
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah.
• 1:18:33
  Lee Marshall: when he would request his dirty chamber pot to get switched out with a clean one,
• 1:18:36
  Lee Marshall: if it didn't happen quick enough for his liking, he would walk out to the balcony and toss the dirty one over.
• 1:18:40
  Lee Marshall: Gross. mean, at least. Right.
• 1:18:42
  Carrie Genzel: No way. That's disgusting and he's still doing it.
• 1:18:47
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Well, at least now it's just ghost poop. So you don't have to clean it up now.
• 1:18:49
  Carrie Genzel: That's right. That's right.
• 1:18:52
  Lee Marshall: But how horrible?
• 1:18:54
  Carrie Genzel: my gosh. What a wonderful man. But wow,
• 1:18:57
  Lee Marshall: Yeah,
• 1:19:00
  Carrie Genzel: well, this is just this is fascinating. And it's incredible. How many tours do you think that you've given
• 1:19:06
  Carrie Genzel: since you've been back there?
• 1:19:08
  Lee Marshall: Gosh, I've been doing tours, I'm going on my sixth year. Yeah, so five.
• 1:19:13
  Carrie Genzel: And how often do you give them?
• 1:19:15
  Lee Marshall: Right now, let's see, because I'm only doing like weekends right now. I was doing seven days a week though.
• 1:19:21
  Carrie Genzel: Yeah. Wow.
• 1:19:24
  Lee Marshall: So, and there were times I was doing sometimes two, sometimes three tours at night.
• 1:19:28
  Lee Marshall: which is awesome.
• 1:19:29
  Carrie Genzel: Wow, that's a lot of energy. That's and it's you know, it's a lot to remember.
• 1:19:33
  Carrie Genzel: It's it and it is a performance, right? So yeah,
• 1:19:36
  Lee Marshall: Yes, it is. It is.
• 1:19:38
  Carrie Genzel: you're putting on a show and then you're also navigating through the energy that may be in those spaces,
• 1:19:43
  Carrie Genzel: the energy of the group. You're trying to herd the kittens and make sure they don't wander off.
• 1:19:48
  Carrie Genzel: So it's a lot.
• 1:19:49
  Lee Marshall: yes, that's the hardest part is just hurting the people. These people, like I get it.
• 1:19:54
  Lee Marshall: You get curious and you start wandering in. It's like, no, you stay together,
• 1:19:58
  Lee Marshall: stay together. I've only lost one person on my tour. But that was
• 1:20:03
  Carrie Genzel: my gosh.
• 1:20:03
  Lee Marshall: because they didn't listen. I was like, okay. But they knew
• 1:20:08
  Carrie Genzel: Yikes.
• 1:20:09
  Lee Marshall: it was their fault, not my fault. So thankfully I didn't get into trouble.
• 1:20:11
  Carrie Genzel: Right, right. Well, that's good. That's good. Well, I find that I find that all very interesting and just
• 1:20:18
  Carrie Genzel: sort of thinking back to our conversation about how, you you started out even as a child having experiences
• 1:20:25
  Carrie Genzel: and then that sort of changed over time and you've been a part of groups and investigated and paranormal like
• 1:20:33
  Carrie Genzel: is like a thread that has been kind of through your life in different ways.
• 1:20:39
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 1:20:39
  Carrie Genzel: and always present in many different ways, which is really interesting.
• 1:20:44
  Lee Marshall: Yeah, it keeps my life exciting.
• 1:20:47
  Carrie Genzel: It does. It does. I know we'll wrap it up soon, but I was just remembering and I think I brought this up earlier
• 1:20:56
  Carrie Genzel: that you also have owned some haunted objects in your lifetime as well. I remember seeing a few of those.
• 1:21:05
  Lee Marshall: Oh yes, yes, I'm trying to think which ones they were. I say order because I lost.
• 1:21:07
  Lee Marshall: I lost everything in the fire a year ago.
• 1:21:08
  Carrie Genzel: Well, there was that marionette. Yes. that's another thing that I wanted to talk about,
• 1:21:14
  Carrie Genzel: too. And that was an unfortunate tragedy. And I know that you did have some loss with the fire.
• 1:21:21
  Carrie Genzel: But there also were some possibly otherworldly experiences that happened just before and during that may have
• 1:21:30
  Carrie Genzel: been there to alert you or. certainly in the case of your mother-in-law, perhaps guide her in the right direction.
• 1:21:38
  Carrie Genzel: If you are comfortable sharing that, think that that's
• 1:21:43
  Lee Marshall: sure. Sure, sure.
• 1:21:44
  Carrie Genzel: really because I, you know, the reason why I love you to share it is that people often associate spirit activity
• 1:21:52
  Carrie Genzel: or ghostly activity as negative or frightening. And one of the things I always want to emphasize is that it's
• 1:22:00
  Carrie Genzel: not always that sometimes they're just there coexisting with you.
• 1:22:05
  Lee Marshall: guys.
• 1:22:05
  Carrie Genzel: Sometimes in your case, they may be trying to tell you something or alert you or guide you in a different
• 1:22:12
  Carrie Genzel: direction, right, to help you. And I think that your story in regards to your fire,
• 1:22:18
  Carrie Genzel: your house fire is such a great example of that.
• 1:22:22
  Lee Marshall: Yes, yes.
• 1:22:24
  Carrie Genzel: prior to the fire, you had an experience that and you weren't, were you having experiences in this home prior
• 1:22:31
  Carrie Genzel: to this? Okay.
• 1:22:33
  Lee Marshall: yes. Yes. mean, like, yeah, there'd be like one moment I remember laying in bed because,
• 1:22:38
  Lee Marshall: you know, I think we all do it now since we have the technology in our hands.
• 1:22:43
  Lee Marshall: We'll get in bed. We'll look at our phone for the longest time. I would see somebody walking across the foot
• 1:22:49
  Lee Marshall: of the bed, you know, and then I'd realize my partner's in bed with me and that's and there's no one walking
• 1:22:56
  Lee Marshall: around the room. And the room was very large at the time. And For the longest time I would see that and it
• 1:23:02
  Lee Marshall: just became kind of like, yeah, the guy walking by the bed last night again,
• 1:23:07
  Lee Marshall: know, it's
• 1:23:08
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:23:09
  Lee Marshall: geeky about it and nothing ever frightening. My mother-in-law who lives with us would see,
• 1:23:15
  Lee Marshall: she would ask me about the children, where'd the children go? And I'm like,
• 1:23:20
  Lee Marshall: But I did have a dream one night shortly after she had said that, and I don't know if that's why I had the
• 1:23:28
  Lee Marshall: dream, but of there being two children in the house and me trying to talk to
• 1:23:34
  Carrie Genzel: Really?
• 1:23:35
  Lee Marshall: them and knowing that they, in my dream, that they were spirits. So I don't know if that had something to
• 1:23:38
  Lee Marshall: do or if that was really something I was really experiencing. It felt very real.
• 1:23:42
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:23:43
  Lee Marshall: More real than most of my like regular dreams do. So I don't know if that was connected,
• 1:23:47
  Lee Marshall: but I think the strongest thing the week before the fire I'd mentioned earlier when we were talking.
• 1:23:52
  Lee Marshall: I got up, was maybe three or four in the morning to go to the restroom and somebody pushed me from behind.
• 1:23:58
  Lee Marshall: Not hard, just kind of like nudging me to kind let me know that they were there.
• 1:24:02
  Lee Marshall: And I thought it was my partner, so I remember turning around and going, ha ha,
• 1:24:06
  Lee Marshall: very funny. Thinking that was really weird that you're up too to go to the bathroom at the same time,
• 1:24:11
  Lee Marshall: but when I turned back around, he's still in bed and it was just me and I was like,
• 1:24:15
  Lee Marshall: oh, okay.
• 1:24:16
  Carrie Genzel: right.
• 1:24:17
  Lee Marshall: But I think that the thing that really sticks out most for me is... The house was a hundred years old,
• 1:24:23
  Lee Marshall: a little over a hundred years old. It was wooden. It was shingled roof, which
• 1:24:29
  Carrie Genzel: Hmm.
• 1:24:29
  Lee Marshall: it was grandfathered in because you're not allowed to shingle roofs like that any longer here,
• 1:24:35
  Lee Marshall: at least in Texas or in San Antonio. So it was an old house. And, When it caught fire,
• 1:24:41
  Lee Marshall: it caught fire within the walls and everything burned very, very intensely.
• 1:24:47
  Lee Marshall: So everything, everything completely incinerated inside. so the fire, when,
• 1:24:52
  Lee Marshall: when the fire started, you didn't see the flames. was just smoke. right. there were no.
• 1:24:59
  Carrie Genzel: Wow, so that's confusing because you can't figure out where it's coming from.
• 1:25:03
  Lee Marshall: where it's coming from, yeah. And my mother-in-law who lives with us unfortunately has dementia and she at
• 1:25:10
  Lee Marshall: this point in her life, she just didn't know where anything was anymore. You would have to escort her or tell
• 1:25:17
  Lee Marshall: her where to go, you your bedrooms through here. Well, the night of the fire,
• 1:25:22
  Lee Marshall: she had gone to bed. My partner was already upstairs on his phone and we're talking as like nine o'clock at
• 1:25:30
  Lee Marshall: night. It wasn't late late. I was training a new tour guide at the time. But basically what happened was when
• 1:25:37
  Lee Marshall: my, when my, husband noticed the smoke he went to the stairwell and it was just black billowy clouds coming
• 1:25:45
  Lee Marshall: up the stairwell but he could
• 1:25:47
  Carrie Genzel: Wow.
• 1:25:47
  Lee Marshall: hear his mom screaming his name so he made his way downstairs and walked into the the main living room and
• 1:25:54
  Lee Marshall: bumped into her he couldn't see her because the smoke was so thick at this point but he grabbed her and pulled
• 1:26:01
  Lee Marshall: her outside the next day we're in the hotel that the Red Cross put us in and I I don't know why I even asked
• 1:26:08
  Lee Marshall: this, but I asked my mother-in-law, how did you find your way out of your bedroom?
• 1:26:14
  Lee Marshall: Because honestly, it was like a maze to get to where her room was. And she very matter-of-factly stated,
• 1:26:21
  Lee Marshall: oh, my parents woke me up and told me that I needed to get up and go with them.
• 1:26:26
  Lee Marshall: I was like, oh, great. I'm so glad they did. Yeah, I'm glad they did. Yes. So,
• 1:26:31
  Lee Marshall: yeah.
• 1:26:32
  Carrie Genzel: Interesting. Right. Well, thank you. Thanks for that assist. Well, yeah. And you think about if that hadn't
• 1:26:40
  Carrie Genzel: happened because of just how thick the smoke was and in the confusion even for you,
• 1:26:47
  Carrie Genzel: right? That she may not have found her way. You know, they directed her right in the path of your husband
• 1:26:56
  Carrie Genzel: Todd, right?
• 1:26:57
  Lee Marshall: Yes.
• 1:26:58
  Carrie Genzel: And her son, right? that there might have been more tragedy that night. So that's incredible.
• 1:27:05
  Lee Marshall: Yes, yes. There would have definitely, there would have been more tragedy for sure had that not happened because
• 1:27:12
  Lee Marshall: there's no way, I mean, I cannot figure out other than some intervention from the other side to get
• 1:27:19
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:27:20
  Lee Marshall: her out of the room through a dining room. and threw another doorway into the living room because I mean if
• 1:27:25
  Lee Marshall: you if you'd seen the house on the interior you would understand it was not just simply like room room room
• 1:27:31
  Lee Marshall: like little doorways it was you really had to maneuver around furnishings and and and walls and and going
• 1:27:37
  Lee Marshall: through small corridor and yeah
• 1:27:39
  Carrie Genzel: Right.
• 1:27:40
  Lee Marshall: so I just remember thinking so grateful so grateful
• 1:27:44
  Carrie Genzel: So grateful, absolutely. So that's it folks. Sometimes, right, we may feel uneasy knowing something is there,
• 1:27:48
  Carrie Genzel: but sometimes it might be there to lead you in the right way when tragedy strikes.
• 1:27:52
  Carrie Genzel: It's not
• 1:27:53
  Lee Marshall: Yep. Absolutely.
• 1:27:56
  Carrie Genzel: always a negative, scary thing.
• 1:27:59
  Lee Marshall: Or like they say here in South Texas, it's not always el cocuí.
• 1:28:06
  Carrie Genzel: True. That's true. Not all. No, not always. my gosh, that's
• 1:28:12
  Lee Marshall: I love it.
• 1:28:13
  Carrie Genzel: amazing. Lee, this has been such an incredible chat. We've and we've just like this is just the tip of the
• 1:28:17
  Carrie Genzel: iceberg, right? If somebody is interested
• 1:28:19
  Lee Marshall: This is the tip, yes.
• 1:28:23
  Carrie Genzel: in taking a tour with you who happens to be in San Antonio or is visiting San Antonio,
• 1:28:27
  Carrie Genzel: what is the best way for them to do that?
• 1:28:30
  Lee Marshall: they can actually just contact Sisters Grimm Ghost Tours. We are housed at
• 1:28:34
  Carrie Genzel: Okay, cool. Cool.
• 1:28:36
  Lee Marshall: the Menger Hotel and we do walking tours, we do bus tours.
• 1:28:40
  Carrie Genzel: And can they specifically ask for you a specific tour guide? fabulous. Well,
• 1:28:42
  Carrie Genzel: ask for Lee. I'll definitely
• 1:28:43
  Lee Marshall: Absolutely. Yes. Yes, that's me.
• 1:28:47
  Carrie Genzel: put their information in all the show notes. And when
• 1:28:50
  Lee Marshall: thank you.
• 1:28:50
  Carrie Genzel: I post this so that you know how to reach Lee and take a tour, I want to come and take a tour with you.
• 1:28:53
  Carrie Genzel: They would be so fun. And I know exactly where I want to stay now. Yes.
• 1:28:56
  Lee Marshall: Please do. Oh, that'd be so much fun. That would be so much fun. We would have.
• 1:29:00
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Going down for a week. I'll do a stay kay there. We'll have fun.
• 1:29:05
  Lee Marshall: Oh, and by the way, their pool there, just a fun note is modeled after the Beverly Hills Hotel pool.
• 1:29:11
  Lee Marshall: Yeah. So it's kind of like a little bit of LA.
• 1:29:14
  Carrie Genzel: fabulous. that's fabulous. A little LA in South Texas. So cool. Willie, thank you so much for joining me and
• 1:29:23
  Carrie Genzel: sharing all the photos
• 1:29:25
  Lee Marshall: guys.
• 1:29:25
  Carrie Genzel: and all of the stories. And I'm sure we'll be talking to you again soon. Thank
• 1:29:30
  Lee Marshall: Hope so, thank you.
• 1:29:31
  Carrie Genzel: you.
• 1:29:32
  Carrie Genzel: There's something I've always appreciated about Lee. He doesn't approach the paranormal with arrogance.
• 1:29:39
  Carrie Genzel: He approaches it with curiosity and humanity. For some people, the unexplained becomes a performance,
• 1:29:46
  Carrie Genzel: but with Lee, it feels woven into the fabric of his life. Sometimes funny, sometimes unsettling,
• 1:29:53
  Carrie Genzel: sometimes deeply emotional. And maybe that's what makes stories like these stay with us.
• 1:29:59
  Carrie Genzel: Not just the apparitions or the evidence captured in photographs, but the deeply personal moments.
• 1:30:07
  Carrie Genzel: The feeling that maybe, somehow, we are not as alone as we think we are. Whether it's a warning before a tragedy
• 1:30:15
  Carrie Genzel: or a shared experience during a ghost tour. Tonight's stories remind us how thin the line can sometimes feel
• 1:30:22
  Carrie Genzel: between the ordinary and the unexplained. Whether you believe every story shared tonight or remain skeptical,
• 1:30:30
  Carrie Genzel: I think there's value in sitting with the mystery, in allowing ourselves to admit that there may still be
• 1:30:38
  Carrie Genzel: things in this world we don't fully understand. And occasionally, those things may even reach back toward
• 1:30:45
  Carrie Genzel: us. Thank you to Lee Marshall for joining me and sharing his experiences, his history,
• 1:30:52
  Carrie Genzel: and some truly incredible stories and evidence from San Antonio. If you enjoyed this episode of Echoes of
• 1:30:59
  Carrie Genzel: the South, be sure to follow, subscribe, and share it with someone who loves stories that live in the space
• 1:31:07
  Carrie Genzel: between history and the unexplained. And if you've experienced something strange,
• 1:31:13
  Carrie Genzel: uncanny, or impossible to explain, you can submit your story at EchoesOfTheSouth.com.
• 1:31:19
  Carrie Genzel: Until next time, listen closely. Some echoes never fade. Stay close.