Latest / Graeme Souness Tackles / Piers Morgan: Declan Rice Debate, Man City & Ronaldo’s Portugal DRAMA | Graeme Souness Tackles Ep 7

Transcript

Piers Morgan: Declan Rice Debate, Man City & Ronaldo’s Portugal DRAMA | Graeme Souness Tackles Ep 7 · Graeme Souness Tackles

• 0:02
  Welcome to Graham Soonest Tackles.
• 0:04
  Today we have Scott Minto and of course Piers Morgan.
• 0:10
  If you're watching on YouTube, please hit, like, comment and
• 0:13
  subscribe. Enjoy the show.
• 0:16
  My message. To Sydney would be if it's so
• 0:18
  irrefutable, publish it. It's a game of.
• 0:20
  Football, period. It's not.
• 0:21
  It's not. Business is going well.
• 0:22
  It's actually not. Where do you achieve your
• 0:24
  medals? I must bring one to show you
• 0:25
  because you've never seen one before.
• 0:27
  I'll bring a, I'll bring a Champions League.
• 0:29
  One which one? I've only got three of them so.
• 0:33
  Most people get a full Morgan. Throttle tackle, they had a term
• 0:37
  for it and it's called doing a Who was a player at that time?
• 0:40
  What's his name? I'll tell you off camera.
• 0:42
  I don't think we can compare Declan Rice for Graham soon as.
• 0:44
  Justice Palmer and how we've landed you, I don't know.
• 0:55
  You're the most in demand, man. Well, I just didn't know how to
• 0:58
  say no. I mean, well, there was a risk
• 1:01
  as soon as tackle. Wasn't it?
• 1:02
  I was betting that you weren't going to turn up?
• 1:04
  Really. Yeah.
• 1:05
  Because someone you know very well said he's a Butler deep
• 1:08
  down. Might have been some.
• 1:10
  No, I can't say Simon Jordan can.
• 1:13
  I said he says he won't turn up. So thank you for being here.
• 1:15
  Well, here I am. Thank you for being here.
• 1:17
  So Jordan once again is completely wrong.
• 1:19
  He's left unsurprising. Once again.
• 1:22
  And the last time I saw you, actually, you were wearing a
• 1:24
  Spurs shirt. Do you remember it?
• 1:25
  Oh my. God, you were there.
• 1:27
  I was there is. That the Peter Crouch thing?
• 1:29
  Yes, Carabao Cup, I sort of hosted the the Caribou Cup draw
• 1:34
  and you had a little bit with Peter Crouch and.
• 1:36
  The loser had to put on the other's shirt.
• 1:38
  It was Arsenal, Spurs. I remember that.
• 1:40
  One of the worst days of my life actually, if.
• 1:43
  You remember it well, Can I, can I, can I start?
• 1:46
  I don't know where to start. We're going to start with, I
• 1:49
  mean, you're a survivor, aren't you?
• 1:51
  I mean, you've, you've evolved, which is a sign of intelligence.
• 1:55
  Well, I, I certainly think that I definitely am a survivor in a
• 1:59
  business like, you know, newspapers are a bit like,
• 2:03
  especially Fleet Street towards the end was a real jungle.
• 2:06
  And to operate in that, it's a bit like probably operating in
• 2:09
  the football world, right? It's, it's, it's not for the
• 2:11
  faint hearted. So I've had a, you know,
• 2:13
  throughout my media career, a lot of great highs, a lot of
• 2:16
  great lows. And what you learn, I mean, I
• 2:19
  don't know what you feel about this, but actually I used to
• 2:22
  learn a lot more from the lows than the highs in when the highs
• 2:26
  came, you know, you win top awards or you'd have some great
• 2:30
  thing. Everyone's your friend.
• 2:33
  They all want to be all over you.
• 2:34
  The phone blows up and I always say to my sons, you know, it's
• 2:38
  the, I always recite to them the Rocky Balboa speech in the 6th
• 2:42
  movie. And he has his son's now grown
• 2:44
  up and he's 20s and he's a spoiled brat, whining and
• 2:47
  moaning about being Rocky's son. And there's this great moment in
• 2:51
  the film when he he has it out with his son in the street and
• 2:55
  he says life's tough. It will beat you down and keep
• 2:58
  you there if you love it. But actually, it's not about how
• 3:00
  hard you hit. Like it's about how hard you can
• 3:03
  get hit, get back up and keep moving forward.
• 3:06
  That's how winning is done. So in January, I fell over and
• 3:09
  broke my femur and had to have a new hit.
• 3:12
  And for 24 hours, I had a fractured neck of my feet, which
• 3:15
  if anyone's ever broken the biggest heart of the body, it
• 3:18
  was agony. So my three sons come to visit
• 3:21
  me and I'm like they said, Dad, you're right.
• 3:23
  I went, oh God. And they went, Dad, life's
• 3:25
  tough. It will beat you down.
• 3:29
  And they recited the whole speech.
• 3:31
  But actually, I love that speech.
• 3:33
  And in a way I, I remind myself of it in the good times and bad
• 3:37
  because it's true, right? Life is 10% and we all have to
• 3:40
  go through this stuff, whether it's grief or losing jobs or,
• 3:44
  you know, whatever it is. How you deal with the bad stuff
• 3:49
  shapes you as a. Define you what you'll be at the
• 3:51
  end. Of the day, I think so it's not
• 3:52
  the good. Stuff I tell my I tell all my
• 3:54
  kids that yeah, how you deal with disappointments will
• 3:58
  determine what sort of guy person you are at the end of.
• 4:00
  The day 100% and I think it's that's the character building
• 4:03
  part of your life. It's not the good stuff.
• 4:06
  The good stuff's easy. How do you deal with?
• 4:07
  It I think both of you have got a lot in common in terms about
• 4:10
  resilience for sure. But let's talk about the biggest
• 4:12
  story in town. And no, not Ronaldo.
• 4:15
  Not. Just Arsenal.
• 4:17
  No Arsenal. No Arsenal, we'll get to them,
• 4:19
  of course, Manchester City and you called it the the
• 4:21
  potentially the biggest scandal in the history of football and,
• 4:25
  and obviously you you stand by that a. 100% because you've got
• 4:29
  a situation where the biggest club in the country, they've
• 4:31
  established that over the last 15 years they've been found
• 4:34
  guilty of 115 serious charges. If they lose the appeal, as most
• 4:40
  people assume, they will give them the time it's taken for
• 4:42
  these charges to be properly examined and then a ruling to be
• 4:45
  made. They will they will be
• 4:47
  officially the biggest cheats in the history of the Premier
• 4:50
  League. The Premier League to me now is
• 4:51
  the pre eminent league of the world and this is the team
• 4:54
  that's won eight league titles right since they had their new
• 4:58
  owners. And to me I've looked at it
• 5:01
  trying to be. Look, obviously as an Arsenal
• 5:03
  fan, I wish City nothing but ignominious humiliation,
• 5:06
  relegation and Harlan to join us in January.
• 5:08
  Putting aside my own feelings as a football fan, what they've
• 5:12
  done is state sponsored cheating and that's what they've been
• 5:15
  found guilty of. So we shouldn't have to
• 5:17
  equivocate with our wording. They've been found guilty of
• 5:20
  these charges. They're going to appeal.
• 5:22
  They say they've got incontrovertible evidence and so
• 5:25
  on. Well, they haven't shown it.
• 5:26
  Let's see it. My message to City would be if
• 5:29
  it's so irrefutable, your evidence will just publish it.
• 5:32
  Nothing to stop you. You can actually just publish
• 5:34
  it. They haven't published it
• 5:36
  because they're guilty and we know what they did.
• 5:38
  You know, the fact the financial Fair, I mean the Mancini story
• 5:41
  alone. So man, you know about this.
• 5:43
  I mean the man's senior story, he's earning one and a half,
• 5:46
  £1,000,000 a year as manager of Manchester City.
• 5:49
  He's then paid £1.7 million a year, according to this report,
• 5:53
  to advise for four days a year at Abu Dhabi based football
• 5:57
  club. Many jobs going.
• 5:59
  Yeah, exactly. I want a piece of that action.
• 6:02
  I'm available for eight days a year for three and a half
• 6:05
  million. Can I?
• 6:06
  It's all. Can I listen?
• 6:09
  It's the game of football. It is a game of football.
• 6:12
  Yeah. And I think, and I said this,
• 6:14
  we, I did the show a week or so ago with Sir David Murray and
• 6:20
  Simon. And I said at the time, this is
• 6:22
  far bigger than football, this story far bigger.
• 6:24
  Let me, can I throw something into them?
• 6:25
  Give me your thoughts on that. So Abu Dhabi bought a Premier
• 6:30
  League football team, Man City, not because they love football.
• 6:34
  They bought that as a vehicle to promote Abu Dhabi as a country.
• 6:42
  These guys have that much money. They were in a race to be the
• 6:46
  best football club in the world. And that was a period that broke
• 6:49
  the rules of spending money. Their income didn't allow them
• 6:53
  to do it. So they were they were in a
• 6:54
  race, you know, on all these titles.
• 6:57
  Now, it'd be wonderful if we, you know, we all want to be
• 6:59
  principal. We all want to do the right
• 7:00
  thing. But they have been caught
• 7:03
  breaking the rules and whatever punishment comes their way.
• 7:06
  I think we have to be very, very careful here.
• 7:08
  I think the bigger picture is PLCUKI think we, if we, if we
• 7:16
  embarrass them, if we really embarrass them, they'll pull the
• 7:20
  pull the drawbridge up and they will leave this country.
• 7:23
  See, I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more because my view is
• 7:27
  I've been to Abu Dhabi a number of times.
• 7:29
  I've got a lot of people I know there.
• 7:31
  I've always had good dealings with them.
• 7:32
  A lot of respect for the for the country and the people I've met
• 7:36
  from there. But sorry, you're caught.
• 7:39
  It's a game of football pairs, but it's not, it's not.
• 7:41
  Business is going well. It's actually not actually,
• 7:43
  because what they've done, the total amount involved here is
• 7:46
  nearly a billion pounds. If you did this in a business,
• 7:49
  they'd all be going to gaol. Let's be clear.
• 7:51
  This is this is fraud on a gigantic scale.
• 7:54
  Fraud. But it's fraud.
• 7:55
  Yeah, it's fraud. Because it's fraud, Because
• 7:57
  everyone's got skeletons in it. Well, yeah, but not like this,
• 7:59
  not like this. Not to the tune of I'm not
• 8:02
  defending them, they must be punished.
• 8:04
  But I think the bigger picture is I'll make a decision of UKPL.
• 8:07
  C Right. Well, OK, let me put a a
• 8:08
  scenario to it's Lance Armstrong, right?
• 8:11
  Wins 7 Tour de Frances, right? And he's an American sporting
• 8:16
  icon, hero, beloved, and he's found guilty of cheating.
• 8:20
  He cheated the whole time, right?
• 8:21
  Oh, hang on. That's my point.
• 8:22
  So do you because of, you know, if America threatened to say,
• 8:26
  well, we're going to yank funding for this, this and this
• 8:29
  was your argument that Oh, well, in that case we better be
• 8:32
  careful not to over sense a lot. Or is he a flaming little cheat?
• 8:36
  I just think with city, I think there's a very difficult period
• 8:40
  and. Our new prime minister's well
• 8:44
  job, who was who was mayor of Manchester when all the
• 8:46
  regeneration was going off and getting lobbied.
• 8:49
  Every single day. Right.
• 8:50
  So why was his first reaction a few days ago, if you remember,
• 8:55
  looking like he was carrying a bit of water for them?
• 8:57
  I do hope they don't leave. I was like, why would you hope
• 9:00
  that, Prime Minister? Your job is not to hope that
• 9:03
  people who've been caught cheating don't leave.
• 9:04
  Your job is to just say they should be held to proper
• 9:07
  account. But he's mayor of city, a large
• 9:10
  part of the regeneration of which is down to the Abu Dhabi
• 9:13
  funding, right? So look, it's complicated and
• 9:16
  it's messy and we do do a lot of trade with Abu Dhabi.
• 9:18
  If I was the Prime Minister, I'd be saying to them, look, we want
• 9:21
  to carry on doing business with you guys.
• 9:22
  But it's got to be legitimate if you've been found guilty of this
• 9:25
  scale of cheating in our game and unfortunately and.
• 9:28
  What if they say no? What if they say no?
• 9:30
  Then you. Say thank you very much.
• 9:31
  Goodbye. Sorry, that's called leadership.
• 9:34
  What should the sanction be? That's that's instant
• 9:37
  relegation. I think then you've got to have
• 9:39
  at least four or five years if they get back in the Premier
• 9:42
  League where they start -25 points.
• 9:44
  So they can't win the league for another four or five years if
• 9:47
  they do get back up. Sorry, finding them is
• 9:50
  pointless. You're finding a club owned by
• 9:52
  unlimited resources. You can find them ten billion.
• 9:55
  They just pay it in a heartbeat. It's not about finding the
• 9:58
  richest club in the world money. You've got to hit them where it
• 10:02
  hurts. And I feel, look, I feel sorry
• 10:04
  for a lot of the players. I'm sure they had nothing to do
• 10:05
  with it. I feel sorry particularly for
• 10:07
  the die hard City fans, not the Johnny Cum latelys who rocked up
• 10:11
  when they started winning everything.
• 10:12
  But I've I've got friends who are City fans for 40 years and
• 10:15
  they're gutted about this. Of course they are.
• 10:17
  I'd love to know what Pep Guardiola knew or didn't know
• 10:21
  about any of this. This is Mr Detail.
• 10:23
  And we're supposed to believe he he had absolutely no idea about
• 10:26
  any of this. He must have known what they
• 10:28
  were spending. Well, he's apparently coming to
• 10:29
  the PSG games in support of. I get it, and that's fine, but
• 10:33
  what did he really know? I mean, they were spending
• 10:36
  gargantuan sums of money. None of it made sense.
• 10:39
  Suddenly they're getting all this enormous income, but no
• 10:42
  one's quite sure how they're doing it.
• 10:44
  Now we know how they were doing it.
• 10:45
  It was all coming from the government.
• 10:47
  What would the sanction be for you?
• 10:52
  Not loser titles. No, you've got a strip of titles
• 10:56
  100% like you did. Lars Armstrong bang fine a fine
• 11:00
  serious fine as. How much would you find?
• 11:03
  Abu What do you find? Abu government?
• 11:05
  Well, you find them a pound or a billion makes no difference to
• 11:08
  them, so why bother? I I just think, I just think
• 11:12
  it's well, the fact have been found guilty, the fact have been
• 11:16
  shamed. I think that for people from
• 11:20
  that part of the world that's so important to them.
• 11:22
  I'll go back to the fact they bought that football club as a
• 11:25
  vehicle to promote the name Abu Dhabi throughout the world
• 11:27
  associated they, they no one says no to them.
• 11:31
  They're not used to being second.
• 11:33
  So this is a really difficult diplomacy that this is a really
• 11:37
  difficult time for our government, our Prime Minister.
• 11:39
  I just don't. I don't think it is.
• 11:41
  You've got to show some balls and you've got to stand up for
• 11:44
  what our principles are, what our values are as a country.
• 11:47
  Show some balls what that Showing some balls will mean
• 11:50
  that their money will leave this country.
• 11:52
  They'll pull the drawbridge up, businesses will go bust, people
• 11:56
  will lose their jobs and. That's that is all.
• 12:00
  That is all on Manchester City. I, I personally agree with you
• 12:03
  in principle, but I think Graham, I, I personally agree
• 12:05
  with you that governments will be involved and there'll be some
• 12:08
  kind of fudge to it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:10
  But I, I want to sort of ask about the players as well.
• 12:12
  Both of you have had opposite sides of where you think in
• 12:15
  terms of the titles from a player's point of view.
• 12:18
  Roy Keane has said he'd throw his medals in the bin.
• 12:21
  Would would you do that if you were one of the players back
• 12:24
  then? No, because it's where do you
• 12:27
  keep your medals, your league? Your league, I must bring one to
• 12:31
  show you because you've never seen one before.
• 12:34
  I'll bring, I'll bring a Champions League 1.
• 12:37
  Which one? Well.
• 12:38
  I've only got three of them, so those those three in the museum
• 12:41
  in Glasgow, Rangers, not the medals, come back.
• 12:43
  To me, in 10 years, yeah, yeah, the gravy trains have.
• 12:46
  Started. My medals are in a safe, some
• 12:49
  are safe. So so but I.
• 12:50
  Agree with Keane, right? Absolutely.
• 12:52
  They're worthless, surely? I I totally don't.
• 12:55
  I totally don't take. Arsenal head off for a minute.
• 12:57
  Please, because I think personally that the day-to-day,
• 13:01
  the sacrifice they make both on and off the pitch, the
• 13:04
  motivation, the discipline, the knowledge of what goes into it.
• 13:07
  I mean Roy Keane's Roy Keane, he's obviously been a world
• 13:10
  class player and he's very opinionated of course, but I
• 13:13
  personally think no, no, no, you're not taking those medals
• 13:15
  away from me because of the hard work.
• 13:17
  And I've heard Carl Walker said something similar as well.
• 13:19
  Meaningless. What would you think?
• 13:20
  If they had won the leagues by influencing referees, that's
• 13:25
  that's the bigger crime for me, what they've been guilty of in
• 13:28
  the early ownership, they've spent too much money.
• 13:31
  On players who then won the league, yeah.
• 13:34
  But but they've still won the league.
• 13:36
  They've still. They've not with players they
• 13:37
  shouldn't have been allowed to buy except that.
• 13:39
  But they've still won and Arsenal lost.
• 13:40
  It's not like players to them. It's not like so.
• 13:43
  They've not only improved their own squad with our players, they
• 13:46
  weakened ours. And everyone else.
• 13:49
  There are more than two. Teams.
• 13:50
  They raided a lot of teams of their best players
• 13:53
  illegitimately. They shouldn't have been allowed
• 13:55
  to do it. They didn't have the funds to do
• 13:57
  it, to meet the fair play. Who are the players?
• 13:59
  Arsenal, I'm thinking of Adebayor.
• 14:01
  Nazari Yeah. Adebayor.
• 14:05
  Cliche, cliche. That's three for you.
• 14:07
  Villa got cleaned. Out.
• 14:08
  You're going to win, I think, Adebayor.
• 14:10
  We don't know, do you? We can't say for sure.
• 14:12
  What we do know is they were. Artificially, Arsenal have won
• 14:16
  five leagues. No, apparently someone worked
• 14:18
  out. We would win 1, Liverpool would
• 14:20
  win two or three. Liverpool have got enough.
• 14:23
  Well, Wayne Rooney said they. Have in your era.
• 14:25
  Wayne Rooney said he he, he doesn't want the medals.
• 14:27
  Let's move on to to the players of today, the Manchester City.
• 14:30
  How would they react to it and how, what do you think they'll
• 14:32
  be saying? Well, who's going to stay?
• 14:34
  If they get relegated, which I think they have to be, and also
• 14:36
  in a courtroom, if you're found guilty, you get sentenced, then
• 14:39
  you appeal. I, I sincerely hope we're going
• 14:41
  to see the sentence put down here, the sanctions now and then
• 14:46
  if they want to appeal, they can appeal.
• 14:47
  And if you've got any sense, what they'll do is do a deal,
• 14:50
  right? They'll just do a deal.
• 14:51
  This is going to get worse. David Walsh at The Sunday Times
• 14:54
  wrote a great column at the weekend citing the Lance
• 14:56
  Armstrong. Now Armstrong was offered a deal
• 14:59
  where he could get to keep some of his Tour de France titles if
• 15:02
  he fessed up. And he doubled down, trebled
• 15:04
  down, quadrupled down, lying, lying, lying, lying.
• 15:07
  And eventually he lost all his titles.
• 15:09
  And he made the point City could maybe claw back a modicum of
• 15:14
  respect if they held their hands up, said we got this wrong, we
• 15:17
  shouldn't have done this and they do a deal, but it has to
• 15:20
  involve relegation. The question then becomes, if
• 15:22
  you're earling Harland in particular #1 centre forward in
• 15:26
  the world, arguably, what do you do?
• 15:28
  Well, he's going to leave. Why wouldn't he leave?
• 15:31
  And hopefully. You'd come.
• 15:32
  I was waiting for that. I was.
• 15:33
  Waiting for that. Graham, if you were a Man City
• 15:36
  player now, what would you be doing?
• 15:38
  Well, I'd wait for the final outcome.
• 15:41
  I turn up every day and train. I was always training, trying to
• 15:44
  be a proper player around the place and just let the powers
• 15:48
  that be do what they have to do and see what the outcome is.
• 15:50
  But I, I am, I'll come back to it.
• 15:53
  We're we're in dangerous waters. I don't see anything.
• 15:57
  I think we're in a position of complete moral clarity.
• 16:00
  They've been found. They've been found.
• 16:01
  Premier League moral clarity. Well, I'm not saying there's
• 16:04
  been a lot of Moody stuff going on, but nothing on this scale
• 16:07
  ever, ever. I know what's going on.
• 16:09
  George Graham was one of my favourite Arsenal managers.
• 16:11
  We know what happened with the Bungs era and so on.
• 16:14
  This is on a completely different scale.
• 16:16
  This is state sponsored fraud which has led to a club winning
• 16:20
  eight league titles they shouldn't have won, period End.
• 16:25
  On the early period, they're guilty.
• 16:26
  In the early period where they're in arresting get there
• 16:29
  too quickly, sure they wanted to be the best team on day one and
• 16:32
  how the finances everybody wants to be the best team on day one.
• 16:34
  They cheated. How much of A shambles would it
• 16:36
  be if it's not concluded this season?
• 16:38
  A Man City win the title. It would be ridiculous,
• 16:41
  absolutely ridiculous. If they were to win the title
• 16:43
  this season after being found guilty being the biggest cheats
• 16:46
  in the world, it would be obviously ridiculous.
• 16:56
  The Premier League is finally back after the international
• 16:58
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• 17:18
  If it they are taken away this season, I'm not quite sure who
• 17:22
  would challenge Arsenal. Is it?
• 17:23
  Is it a chance for Arsenal to perhaps create a dynasty now in
• 17:27
  the way that your Liverpool did and the way that Fergus United
• 17:30
  did because everyone else is kind of rebuilding with new
• 17:32
  managers? Right.
• 17:33
  I think my thoughts on Arsenal, I mean Arsenal are a really
• 17:35
  strong team, aggressive team, which I love.
• 17:38
  There was a game two or three, well three weeks, 4 weeks ago
• 17:42
  where they made 3 Subs in the second-half and the ones coming
• 17:44
  on with the same quality as the ones coming off.
• 17:47
  Yeah, I think there are. I still think I sent a forward
• 17:50
  chart. I agree, I agree.
• 17:52
  I mean, I, I funny that if you put Harland in that team, we'd
• 17:54
  be unbeatable. I do think we're we're a proper
• 17:57
  striker, sure, But I, I think about this Arsenal, I say this
• 18:02
  slightly tongue in cheek because they've only had 25 man squads
• 18:04
  for about whatever it is 10 years, right, But I say it's the
• 18:07
  best 25 man squad in world football for the reason you
• 18:10
  decided. We have amazing strength in
• 18:12
  depth. That's down to our Tetra in the
• 18:14
  recruitment process. In every position now we have
• 18:18
  two or three options, I mean our defence alone.
• 18:20
  Accept that. Format.
• 18:21
  I agree. I agree.
• 18:22
  That's the one blind spot. Now I'm told that on very good
• 18:25
  authority we thought we have Vinicius Junior.
• 18:28
  They thought it was a done deal and at the last minute maybe
• 18:30
  Naive Alvarez. Well, well, first of all,
• 18:33
  Vinicius Junior, they thought he was coming and I was told that
• 18:36
  the day before he wasn't coming. I was told we've got it.
• 18:39
  Do you think that would have been a good signing?
• 18:41
  I do, yeah. I think he's a world class
• 18:42
  player. I think 2 things.
• 18:43
  I think he seems to be involved in controversy a great deal.
• 18:49
  Him coming to Arsenal would wreck their wage, wage
• 18:51
  structure. Yeah.
• 18:53
  And given his tendency to be involved in controversy, I think
• 18:58
  that may be a good one to miss. Possibly, but if you want to win
• 19:03
  the Champions League, you've got to take some.
• 19:05
  Risks. You mean striker?
• 19:06
  Let me check. Well, Alvarez was the next
• 19:09
  option. Yeah, he's he's, he's and he's,
• 19:10
  he obviously really wants to go to Barcelona.
• 19:12
  So you've got a problem there with the guy doesn't really want
• 19:14
  to come. How about sin?
• 19:15
  Well, come here for a couple of years and.
• 19:17
  Then, well, I wonder if you'd get him.
• 19:18
  And then yeah, yeah. You know, talking about wage
• 19:20
  structure, Mikhail Arteta of course with the new contract as
• 19:23
  well up until 2030, which if he stays will be a a full decade in
• 19:27
  charge, 70 grand a day. Graham, you want to get back
• 19:31
  into to management? Is that what he's in?
• 19:33
  What's? That 15 mil a year.
• 19:37
  Yeah. But you know, when you look at
• 19:38
  the numbers that are being spent on players, the most important
• 19:42
  personal argument, a football club, if he's got the say in
• 19:45
  most things, is a football manager.
• 19:46
  I remember how I read enough saying that when I was working
• 19:49
  sort of 25 years ago, saying, you know, the best paid player
• 19:52
  at the football club should be the manager.
• 19:54
  All the decisions emanate from him, the ones that really
• 19:56
  matter. If they've got the scene, it's
• 19:58
  not some director of football. Who would you get if you were
• 20:00
  Arsenal right now? Who's Who's Alvarez?
• 20:02
  Is a real target anyway, I mean, the ones you wouldn't get, like
• 20:05
  I think Helen, I'm with you on that.
• 20:07
  I think it's unstoppable. Yeah, if he's in the mood, but
• 20:11
  that might come back to bite them.
• 20:13
  The the target for Arsenal this year, retain the Premier League
• 20:16
  and obviously try and win the the Champions League without a
• 20:20
  knock knock striker because you won't always play well in games
• 20:22
  I'm. Told we are going to get one in
• 20:25
  January, so they missed out when this is junior, they missed out.
• 20:29
  It's not obviously not what we're talking about, but was a
• 20:31
  world class forward. They missed out on Alvarez
• 20:34
  because they couldn't persuade him to come when he want to go
• 20:36
  to Barcelona. But that might change in
• 20:38
  January. If he really feels Athletico
• 20:40
  won't sell him to Barcelona, you might want to just get out of
• 20:43
  there. But I'm told we're going to go
• 20:45
  in big for a striker in January, which might be the perfect time
• 20:48
  to get one. Yeah, look, I, I, I'm with you,
• 20:50
  ideally have have a striker, but also there's only a maybe one or
• 20:53
  two in world football that would improve Arsenal when it's very
• 20:56
  level up, want to be very careful.
• 20:57
  And look at our our defence. The Brighton game was a real
• 21:00
  anomaly and we still have PTSD. Yeah, well, I hope it is.
• 21:04
  Yeah, I think it's probably probably woken them all up.
• 21:06
  But our defence, if you look at it on paper, it's unbelievable.
• 21:10
  I mean the, the competition, the places, we've got 8 top class
• 21:13
  defenders and a world class goalkeeper.
• 21:16
  So you know, and we've got a really good midfield now.
• 21:18
  So I I just think that Arsenal are in a great position, but we
• 21:22
  are the missing, the missing piece is the is the and.
• 21:26
  And after what happened in Brighton, I think the Leeds
• 21:29
  early kick off game will be a very important one.
• 21:30
  I'm sure they'll bounce back as well, but I.
• 21:32
  Sometimes can I just come in here?
• 21:33
  When you're, when you're a dominant team, when you're the
• 21:35
  big team, you have to accept as a cup final for the opposition.
• 21:39
  Whoever you play, they have to show that sometimes a good
• 21:44
  thing, sometimes a good thing. To get battered.
• 21:47
  To get beat. I totally agree.
• 21:49
  When when we played, we never went in a season where we went
• 21:51
  undefeated. Yeah.
• 21:52
  And we we would react to it. Unlike Arsenal, you mean?
• 21:54
  Yeah. No, you've got to.
• 21:55
  No, you've got to Reactor. So we did.
• 21:57
  We did go a season to win the Champions League that year.
• 21:59
  So just, yeah, you can do very Champions League that year.
• 22:01
  You got the Champions League. You never went unbeaten, did
• 22:04
  you? You were never the Invincibles.
• 22:05
  I mean, you were good, don't get me wrong.
• 22:06
  How many you were good? How many?
• 22:08
  Leagues have Arsenal. Got you were just never.
• 22:09
  Invisible. How many leagues have?
• 22:11
  I don't know. Everyone they got everyone could
• 22:13
  do with it. Where is it in in our 2014?
• 22:16
  No one could be is. They're on the Champions League.
• 22:18
  No, it doesn't matter. I'm talking.
• 22:22
  About that, so so Arsenal Leagues is a big game.
• 22:23
  I want to touch on Man U Spurs as well.
• 22:25
  How big a game do you feel that is?
• 22:27
  Obviously both of them have had poor stuff.
• 22:29
  Relegation battling me. And and for the managers as
• 22:32
  well. See, I'm mystified you, we've
• 22:34
  both been players. I'm mystified you.
• 22:36
  Look, they've got good players at Man United and they've got
• 22:39
  good, not such good players. But here's the question how many
• 22:42
  of those good players at Man United we get into Arsenal's
• 22:45
  team? Or without?
• 22:48
  Without. Thinking about it, I won't
• 22:49
  answer that, but I take your point.
• 22:52
  I mean, that's not many if. You go, if you go back to any of
• 22:55
  the great Fergie United teams, you'd have 5 or 6 of them in
• 22:59
  that Arsenal team, just five Ronaldo gigs, you know, keen
• 23:03
  skulls, whatever they had, they had loads of them.
• 23:05
  Now I think the the question you ask how many of them would get
• 23:10
  into that Arsenal team or the City team and the answer is I
• 23:14
  mean 1 Arsenal think. That still doesn't justify, Can
• 23:17
  we? Not move on from Arsenal.
• 23:19
  We have moved on. We have.
• 23:20
  Moved on in an Arsenal shock. He's like, let's talk about Man
• 23:23
  United inspiration. But if you're trying to assess
• 23:25
  the strength of these teams, I'm sure that won't be the last time
• 23:29
  we hear of Arsenal in the next 45 minutes.
• 23:32
  So anyway, I think spirits of good players, many of good
• 23:36
  players, they're far better than what they're showing at this
• 23:38
  moment in time. And I, you know, people talk
• 23:41
  about the culture at a football club.
• 23:42
  We did a show with Niall Quinn a couple of weeks ago, fullback
• 23:48
  Pat Rice said to him when they were used to him players.
• 23:51
  Now you're playing tottens it. This is a soft football club.
• 23:53
  So that's come back. 30 years, 40 so.
• 23:58
  I'm mystified by that, you know? Beyoncé has played more concerts
• 24:03
  at Tottenham's new stadium than they've won league matches in
• 24:06
  that new stadium. How many times have you think
• 24:08
  about that for a minute? How many?
• 24:10
  Times a day. Do you see that a lot?
• 24:13
  My my dad's a salmon fan, so lifelong.
• 24:15
  I'll just come out with a couple of stats and I want to ask you
• 24:18
  about Southampton as well. Only City and Arsenal have won
• 24:21
  more points since Mickey Carrick took over.
• 24:24
  That's even allowing for this season.
• 24:26
  This allowing for this season the Spurs the fewest amount of
• 24:29
  points of the ever present Premier League sides this
• 24:32
  calendar year, so 2026, and they've not won in 48 games in
• 24:37
  all competitions when they conceded the first goal, so that
• 24:41
  says everything. That's a damning, absolutely.
• 24:43
  That you haven't won a game by going behind.
• 24:46
  Yeah. What does that say about you?
• 24:47
  I think it says everything. What does that say?
• 24:49
  About spineless. Southampton got to ask you as
• 24:52
  well, your former club of course, and it's just come out
• 24:54
  that that that the news that Tonde Recker has been finally
• 24:58
  told about his punishment for for Spygate 2 so.
• 25:01
  Obviously it's 6. Games.
• 25:03
  It's a six games suspended touchline ban and it's a £28,000
• 25:07
  fine. Now obviously they were deducted
• 25:08
  4 points for the start of this season and obviously kicked out
• 25:11
  of the the Championship playoff final last season.
• 25:14
  So your thoughts on that? Well I think you know he he, if
• 25:18
  it was his decision, he's single handedly may have cost the club
• 25:22
  in excess of £100 million last year.
• 25:24
  That's the sackable offence than any other business.
• 25:26
  It's the richest game in world. Football so so he's got away
• 25:28
  with that. I think six games is light as
• 25:30
  well. You know I suspended and you
• 25:33
  tell me if I'm wrong with this professional football.
• 25:36
  I'm not sure. You've played against them four
• 25:38
  times. You've had them watch 10 times
• 25:41
  prior to that. What are you going to learn
• 25:43
  about their set pieces? What are you going to learn
• 25:44
  about someone taking pictures? Pathetic and pointless, but
• 25:48
  still blatant cheating. I mean, it's like the worst of
• 25:50
  all trifectas of hell, right? It's like there's no point doing
• 25:54
  it because you obviously know what kind of thing they're going
• 25:56
  to do against you and you. And it's so embarrassing the
• 25:59
  whole way they did it and the way they got caught.
• 26:01
  And it's like, at the end of the day, what have we done this for?
• 26:04
  And it's unbelievable because I was up in Rockcliff, Steve
• 26:08
  Gibson tracing me to a night up there about a month ago.
• 26:13
  The gate is right where everyone can see the gate from all
• 26:17
  corners. I mean, I don't know.
• 26:19
  And then when he was going to be confronted, he ran away just.
• 26:23
  Oh, it's like, it's really. It's like a cartoon strip.
• 26:25
  It's ridiculous. Yeah.
• 26:26
  So there should be. That's the manager's off late.
• 26:28
  There OK, fair enough. I I agree so well OK, first one
• 26:32
  so far we're about half an hour in we've got an agreement
• 26:34
  between you 2 two other the big things happened of course over
• 26:42
  the international break. We're not still not talking
• 26:44
  about Ronaldo just yet, but we want to talk about the
• 26:47
  international break itself. I mean, do I have to?
• 26:50
  Don't have to if you don't want to.
• 26:51
  But what did he make of England? Obviously, three good wins
• 26:56
  thrashed Croatia in Croatia, 7 nil lost, narrowly lost to the
• 27:00
  best team in the world. Over the last Tony odd year,
• 27:03
  it's Croatia been a good team. But I'll come back to Perisich.
• 27:06
  What is he, 3738 moderate? He must be 14.
• 27:10
  So yeah, to win seven nil away from home in Croatia, it has to
• 27:13
  be. You have to see that's a really
• 27:15
  good result. But then I'd question how good
• 27:18
  Croatia are at this moment in time.
• 27:19
  See, my, my, with everyone in Hurricane breaking all sorts of
• 27:23
  records when I played, I hate to say that we played against the
• 27:27
  USSR. I think I'm right in saying the
• 27:29
  USSR was made-up of 15 countries.
• 27:34
  They all, you know, they play England on a regular basis now.
• 27:37
  And then there weren't many easy games in your era
• 27:39
  internationally. Well, now there are so many
• 27:41
  easy. I I agree, there are so many.
• 27:44
  That's why all the international goalscoring records and so on
• 27:47
  that are going to be happening going forward.
• 27:49
  If you've got end up with 48 or 60 teams in the World Cup,
• 27:52
  whatever, obviously. So top strikers are going to
• 27:54
  clean their boots and the numbers are going to go
• 27:56
  exponentially higher. So post World Cup, Thomas Tuquel
• 27:59
  is he? Is he Quell?
• 28:01
  Any sort of murmurs of discontent would always be
• 28:03
  there. I mean, Tuca was 5 minutes away
• 28:06
  from getting us in the World Cup final at his first attempt,
• 28:08
  first international competition, right?
• 28:10
  Yes, he was brought in to not pull a Southgate, which was the
• 28:13
  perception that Southgate, when it really mattered, would put
• 28:16
  the foot on the pedal and not put his foot on the gas.
• 28:18
  Right? On the brake, not the gas.
• 28:20
  And I think that's a legitimate criticism, even though he had a
• 28:23
  very good record Southgate. But you know, your first time
• 28:25
  out as England manager, you get to the World Cup semi final,
• 28:28
  you're playing Argentina and you're 5 minutes away from
• 28:30
  winning, right? So again, I give him credit.
• 28:33
  I think he was a little bit too defensive in that last period
• 28:36
  and it probably cost us and if you had his time again, I'm sure
• 28:39
  he'd do things a bit differently.
• 28:40
  Would we have beaten Spain in the final?
• 28:42
  I'm not sure we would. I think they were the best team
• 28:44
  in the tournament. Can we beat Spain here in the
• 28:47
  EUR? I think we can.
• 28:50
  I think we're developing a really good team.
• 28:52
  I think in Cane we've got the best striker in the world,
• 28:55
  certainly the best goal scorer, goal scorer.
• 28:57
  Goal scorer. You've got 2 best in the world
• 28:59
  so far. Well, Holland is the best.
• 29:01
  Well, Holland. Harland's probably the
• 29:03
  one-on-one Harry's. Harry's an amazing goal machine.
• 29:06
  He is, he is, but I think that you in Bellingham, we've got
• 29:10
  potentially one of the greatest England players of all time.
• 29:12
  He's only 23, can only get better.
• 29:14
  I also think he's getting a lot of options now for, you know,
• 29:17
  with Morgan Rogers and Sacker and Gordon and and Rashford,
• 29:21
  lots of options, developing midfield, lots of options,
• 29:24
  defence, lots of options. You know, I'm, I'm very excited
• 29:27
  about the potential of this squad of the EUR and I've got a
• 29:30
  feeling too cool might bring it home, which would be ironic
• 29:32
  because he's German. So a German will finally bring
• 29:35
  it home in England. Harry Kane people as putting him
• 29:41
  in the equation now, or in the conversation at least.
• 29:44
  I've been England's greatest ever player with 125 record.
• 29:47
  Eagling caps, 91 goals. Where do you seem Graham?
• 29:50
  And if not the best, where is he?
• 29:52
  Oh, he's in there. He's in the mix.
• 29:54
  I mean goal scoring is the hardest thing and he he is a
• 29:56
  goal machine with both. Feet.
• 29:59
  And his head and he's and he's cute, you know, he drops off
• 30:02
  and, you know, sees a pass, can deliver a lovely striker of the
• 30:05
  ball. So yeah, he's got to be in.
• 30:07
  He's got to be in the mix when you're talking about the.
• 30:08
  Greatest. Who's a better?
• 30:09
  He's a better England player. I really like Cher as an all
• 30:14
  round centre forward. I don't think anyone would enjoy
• 30:16
  playing against him. Go back to Jimmy Graves, see
• 30:20
  one, there's strikers that catch you.
• 30:21
  Imagine. Brian Robson was a fantastic
• 30:23
  player. Kevin Keane was a great centre
• 30:27
  forward for England. I mean, Bobby Moore, Bobby
• 30:30
  Gordon Banks, maybe the best of all.
• 30:33
  Bobby Charlton, maybe Bobby Charlton.
• 30:34
  In the end you've got to think the ones who actually won the
• 30:36
  World Cup, it should maybe be 1, be one of those.
• 30:38
  I, I think Kane is getting very close to being the best friend.
• 30:42
  I got to say his goal record. But again, again, the point you
• 30:45
  made about the quality of opposition, I mean, he scores
• 30:48
  against everybody, but it's a little bit like in the
• 30:51
  Bundesliga. I'm not how he scores.
• 30:53
  Against the big teams. Yeah, how?
• 30:54
  Look, Harry scores, scores scored a lot fewer goals in the
• 30:57
  Premier League than he scores in the Bundesliga.
• 30:59
  So it is about who you're playing has to be factored in to
• 31:02
  the tally and how you how you breaking that up.
• 31:05
  Right now, I mean, he's up, He's at Ty Murray, Lewandowski and
• 31:10
  beyond that, no, all top goal scorers, you know, they dominate
• 31:14
  the German game and that's not a great, I don't think it's a
• 31:17
  particularly strong league. They've been this league.
• 31:19
  You know, when you've got consistently the best team,
• 31:21
  Byron Munich, the richest team, Byron Munich can buy from the
• 31:24
  second best team and the second richest team dormant, they can
• 31:26
  take their best players. I'm not sure what that says
• 31:28
  about your league. I think it's a it's a pretty
• 31:30
  weak league. I think the strongest league by
• 31:31
  far is the Premier League. I mean, if you look at Brighton,
• 31:34
  Bournemouth, Brentford, never mind the other teams, they're
• 31:37
  not considered to be top 6. They're all really good teams.
• 31:40
  They're all really good teams playing at a sort of level that
• 31:44
  Leicester were playing when they won the league.
• 31:46
  And that's the difference is there are no easy games.
• 31:48
  I mean there are one or two easy.
• 31:50
  There are very few easy games in the Premier League now, Really
• 31:53
  none. Start as an easy.
• 31:54
  Game. But there's another player who
• 31:55
  doesn't play in the Premier League as well.
• 31:56
  Jude Bellingham. You touched on him.
• 31:57
  Yeah, only 23. 15 I think Bellingham could end up the
• 32:00
  greatest of. The Pike, Yeah, I wouldn't
• 32:01
  disagree. With that, I think he's got
• 32:02
  everything, Everything. One question mark.
• 32:08
  I know what you're going to say. Don't even don't even think of
• 32:10
  saying it. No, I don't even think of saying
• 32:12
  it. You will get a full Morgan
• 32:14
  throttle tackle. Let me tell you, you've survived
• 32:17
  a lot of tackles in your time. You would not survive.
• 32:20
  You would not survive the 2 words that are about to come.
• 32:22
  Out go on, Graham, Go. On go on.
• 32:23
  You're going to say the one problem is tackling rice, aren't
• 32:25
  you? No, I'm not going to mention
• 32:26
  them. You were.
• 32:27
  You brought them up. No, you see you.
• 32:28
  Brought them up. Yes, you were.
• 32:29
  I've got everything wrong. You were.
• 32:31
  I've got. Them all right, tell me, tell
• 32:33
  me. Look at me in the eyes.
• 32:34
  Say you weren't going to. Say I wasn't.
• 32:35
  I promise I wasn't to jog my memory.
• 32:39
  I would say I would say it. It looked like, you know, when
• 32:42
  he was having problems with took on Tookles.
• 32:44
  I mean that for him to bid him like that would suggest he
• 32:48
  wasn't being a very good professional around that group.
• 32:53
  But the fact that that that's even raised its head would
• 32:55
  suggest he's not been the way he should be for me.
• 32:58
  He has everything, you know, I like him to and that's a big cop
• 33:02
  Zidane. I I was Scotland, played England
• 33:07
  3-4 years ago, Hamden and we went on the pitch halfway line
• 33:11
  to do a piece to camera and the ball came towards us and he
• 33:14
  came. He's a giant.
• 33:16
  He's that much bigger than me and twice as broad as me.
• 33:19
  I was told when he first went to Real Madrid he was only still
• 33:22
  only 19. He was bossing around multiple
• 33:25
  Champions League winners in pre season.
• 33:28
  I just think you've got a character who's so strong.
• 33:30
  Yeah, I said. I think he has.
• 33:31
  To, but that's. Has to be managed.
• 33:33
  Remember how young he is still, he's 23, right?
• 33:35
  I think he's really evolved as a he can be as a human being.
• 33:39
  I think he I think he's really grown up and I think, you know,
• 33:42
  I've got three sons, right? And they've all come through
• 33:45
  that period of 23. They're 2520.
• 33:47
  Eight, you suggest that he needs to spend time on your company.
• 33:49
  Yes, yeah, Hear the common man, hear the Rocky speech.
• 33:53
  No, I think, I think he, whoever has been advising him, family,
• 33:57
  advisers, whatever, they've done a great job.
• 33:59
  This has been a defining breakout year for.
• 34:01
  Him and is this finally on on England has this window shown
• 34:04
  that actually we're not missing certain players and you can
• 34:07
  throw in Declan Rice in there although I personally.
• 34:09
  No, no, I'm not talking about you. 2 want to.
• 34:11
  Talk about it. I'm just saying it, but also
• 34:13
  Cole Palmer because then on. Palmer's Palmer's a bottle.
• 34:16
  Job. You called him a bottle job on
• 34:17
  your own show. Because because two call went on
• 34:20
  record. Very unusual for a coach to go
• 34:22
  on record saying he's just missing too many caps, right?
• 34:25
  He is, he's and he's obviously sulking about the World Cup and
• 34:28
  he's, you know, I'm not, I'm, I've never been overly dazzled
• 34:31
  by Cole Palmer. I think their attitude.
• 34:33
  Issues there, he's outstanding, I get to that he's got
• 34:36
  outstanding qualities. He is a player, he's silky, he
• 34:38
  can deliver a pass, you know, sees a.
• 34:41
  Is he mentally? Strong, I'm going to tell you,
• 34:43
  Sir, last Valentine's night, I'm in a restaurant with my
• 34:45
  beautiful young wife and I'm with a young lawyer I'd met.
• 34:49
  I was on holiday and a couple from Liverpool and the young
• 34:53
  lawyer said, oh, that's that. Cole Palmer just walked in 5
• 34:57
  minutes later he said I think I'll go and get a selfie.
• 34:59
  When we went over, as I looked he went to go over.
• 35:02
  As I looked he was on his phone, his girlfriend was on her phone.
• 35:04
  They weren't talking, they weren't ordering food, they
• 35:07
  weren't eating. He went over and he said to the
• 35:10
  guy, he said to call it Cole. Any chance of a selfie?
• 35:15
  Cole Palmers looked up and down and said no.
• 35:20
  I mean, wasn't it clear? I would never do.
• 35:23
  I would never do that. Who?
• 35:24
  Behaves like that. It's.
• 35:25
  It's pathetic. To be fair, I've heard you act
• 35:27
  like that. You know why I don't?
• 35:30
  Because when I when I tell you what, when I was young my
• 35:33
  brother and I went to every Sussex cricket home game for
• 35:36
  five years to get to get the train from Haywards Heath down
• 35:39
  to home and we collected autographs right In the days the
• 35:42
  autographs were the thing. There were no selfies obviously,
• 35:44
  and we can remember to this day the scars from the ones who
• 35:48
  treated us like, I won't say actually, because actually I've
• 35:51
  become quite friendly. With SO all of a sudden you're
• 35:53
  sitting on the fence when you're asked to.
• 35:54
  See, no, it's more because I've become quite friendly with them.
• 35:56
  But actually I can remember how it felt when they just treated
• 35:59
  us badly or rudely. And sometimes it's because they
• 36:01
  scored. No, whatever.
• 36:02
  But I don't think there's any justification forever.
• 36:05
  I get asked, probably not nearly as many as you do, but I get
• 36:08
  asked quite a lot to do pictures or whatever the idea.
• 36:10
  I would say no. It takes longer to say no than
• 36:13
  it does to actually do it. And I'd rather be a pleasant
• 36:16
  surprise when I meet people than a bitter, A bitter reaffirmation
• 36:19
  of what a prick I am. So I just think that Cole
• 36:21
  Palmer, to me, that story is exactly what I would expect him
• 36:25
  to behave like. I think he's he's got a.
• 36:27
  Secret. Can I jump in there?
• 36:28
  Yeah, I think he's like that because the business model at
• 36:31
  Chelsea was all about standing young players, developing them,
• 36:34
  selling some, making a profit. You must have an Arsenal have
• 36:39
  them. You must have good senior pros.
• 36:41
  A manager has so little time, 25 players trained four days a
• 36:46
  week, 2 hours a day, 8 hours out of a week.
• 36:49
  He's got he's got 25, there'll be problem children amongst that
• 36:53
  25. So you need good senior but.
• 36:55
  That's why. That's why I love Declan Rice,
• 36:57
  by the way. Right, Putting aside the
• 36:58
  argument. No, no, no, no, no.
• 37:00
  I'm really on what? You're about to say as as a
• 37:01
  professional and as a role model and as a leader.
• 37:04
  First name on a team sheet, arguably.
• 37:06
  Yeah, 100%. I, I, I, That's why I love him.
• 37:08
  He's an incredibly nice guy, very grounded family.
• 37:11
  It's why I'm very excited about Max down Arsenal.
• 37:14
  He comes from a very nice, grounded family.
• 37:16
  They're pretty well off. They have their own box arsenal
• 37:18
  and stuff. So he's they've got his feet
• 37:21
  firmly on the ground. They didn't do all his exams and
• 37:23
  so unbelievably gifted player. But same with Declan.
• 37:27
  You meet Declan's family, very down to earth, very grounded.
• 37:30
  The ones I worry about are always the ones where in the
• 37:32
  background there's family turmoil stuff going on.
• 37:35
  You know, you look at Deli Alli's story for example as an
• 37:37
  example of that, right? A tragic waste of an amazing
• 37:40
  talent. I think that our Tetra is very
• 37:42
  good at doing the calculus around family setups, friendship
• 37:46
  groups, all that kind of thing. I think it's really important.
• 37:49
  I I feel the same about you with Max Damwin as well.
• 37:51
  I'm almost holding myself back to I bet.
• 37:53
  He's got a world class. Have you met him?
• 37:55
  Yeah. Is he your size?
• 37:56
  He's tall, He's tall, but he's getting bigger.
• 37:59
  He's tall, but he's only 16. And the the goal, he's I
• 38:03
  actually thought that the the defining moment last season with
• 38:06
  that breakout goalie score when he ran the whole length of the
• 38:08
  pitch because the, the crowd just went absolutely crackers
• 38:12
  and not tested it because they really.
• 38:14
  Everyone's talked about Dalman for years as being this wonder
• 38:17
  kid. And you talk to people who
• 38:18
  played around and they just say this kid for his age each time,
• 38:21
  always listen to players. Yeah.
• 38:22
  But now he's doing it on the big stage and, like, effortlessly.
• 38:26
  Yeah. And he can only get bigger,
• 38:27
  stronger, better. I I think he I think he could
• 38:30
  be. It would not surprise me if in
• 38:32
  five years time, the two best players in the world are Max
• 38:35
  Dalman and Drew Bellingham. Imagine.
• 38:37
  I have said that about Max Dalman.
• 38:39
  I think he's got the world class talent.
• 38:40
  Yeah, I have. And playing again against left
• 38:43
  backs who I'm thinking as a left back, how would I play against
• 38:46
  him? And they're actually trying to
• 38:48
  do him and they're bouncing off him or he's just nicking it past
• 38:51
  you. Know who'd be captain of
• 38:52
  England, by the way, in that in five years?
• 38:54
  Deck and Rice. Dude Bellingham.
• 38:56
  Take your watch, it'll be deck. OK, we'll see.
• 38:58
  Too cool, loves his leadership qualities.
• 39:01
  Just on Cole Palmer, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
• 39:03
  Maybe he if they're not talking to each other, him and his
• 39:06
  girlfriend, they could have had an argument, he could have been
• 39:07
  in a bad situation. Not justifying you still do
• 39:10
  that. They don't know.
• 39:11
  OK, fair enough. Anything you want to say on More
• 39:14
  on Declan Rice before we move on?
• 39:15
  No, I'm, I'm a fan, but you know, I understand he's not my
• 39:20
  biggest fan, but I mean. I don't know actually.
• 39:23
  Have you, have you talked to him?
• 39:24
  No, I've never met him, but I there's so much to like about
• 39:27
  him. But I'll come back to I'll I'll
• 39:29
  tell you a story. As a midfield player, I played
• 39:32
  where he played. I could never do what he gets
• 39:35
  away with or Jordan Anderson got away with and that's gone back
• 39:38
  into the back four and and sometimes not occasionally, a
• 39:40
  lot of the time being the last man, you're a midfield player.
• 39:44
  Let me tell you my story on that.
• 39:45
  My second third home game, I've gone into the back four to take
• 39:49
  a pass off the left back, a 10 yard pass.
• 39:51
  So I'm going to level with them. I take a 10 yard pass on edge or
• 39:54
  18 yard line. That was Anfield Road and we're
• 39:57
  kicking towards the cop. I take a 10 yard pass and I pass
• 40:00
  it 10 yards like they all do now. 10 yards go to run forward
• 40:04
  Ronnie Joel. Roy, they're all at the box.
• 40:08
  Go on. And I'm thinking it can't be me.
• 40:10
  They're upset with half time. I get in, they're all on me.
• 40:14
  What? What you doing?
• 40:15
  I said what did I do wrong? I'll tell you what you did
• 40:18
  wrong, son. Even I got a 10 yard pass off
• 40:20
  our left backgrounds to be the England captain right now, Emily
• 40:22
  News. And you passed it 10 yards to
• 40:25
  Phil Thompson, who happens to be the left side of the standard
• 40:26
  half for England. Don't you think our England
• 40:29
  captain can pass it 20 yards square?
• 40:31
  We bought you as a midfield player.
• 40:33
  Get in there and play in midfield.
• 40:34
  Don't be doing and this is a damning.
• 40:37
  They had a term for it. They had a term for it and it
• 40:39
  was called doing a who was a player at that time.
• 40:42
  What's his name? Can't tell.
• 40:43
  I'll tell you off camera. So they had a term for it.
• 40:45
  Dudley, don't don't don't be doing that.
• 40:48
  Here's some you're a midfield player.
• 40:49
  Get in there. You can't really.
• 40:51
  But here's what you're not factoring in.
• 40:53
  You don't know whether the Deckler's doing exactly what
• 40:55
  Miguel wants him to do. Well, to get to, by the way.
• 40:57
  And by the way, and has just won the league.
• 40:59
  Right. So, yeah, but I don't want to
• 41:01
  leave by playing midfield. That's not that.
• 41:04
  That form of midfield play is how an old man, but he might.
• 41:06
  But I think midfield, I think he might play differently this
• 41:09
  season because of the signing of Kumaris.
• 41:10
  But. I think that that's going to
• 41:12
  change the way we. He's got unbelievable qualities
• 41:14
  in terms of a big part. When I went out to play in that
• 41:18
  central midfield, my first thought wasn't to be cute on the
• 41:21
  ball or score a goal, deliver a clever pass.
• 41:24
  It was about protecting the two guys behind me.
• 41:26
  He's got that. He senses danger.
• 41:28
  That's what I think ultimately will be a centre half.
• 41:30
  But he hasn't got for me playing there like Rodri does in my own
• 41:34
  bodies. He hasn't got that radar that
• 41:36
  midfield players have to have where every moment I'm a second
• 41:40
  of a year, you know, we. I know we are.
• 41:42
  I do disagree with you fundamentally about this because
• 41:44
  I watch him every minute of every Arsenal.
• 41:46
  I think it's an. Asset, but it's it's not that
• 41:48
  the amount of ground he covers back and forward is way more
• 41:51
  than you think. It is way more.
• 41:53
  No, it's not about, I don't think you watch him enough.
• 41:55
  It's not about covering ground, Pierce.
• 41:57
  I watch him every game. For every I see him run with the
• 42:00
  ball. 30 He runs the game for Arsenal most of the time.
• 42:03
  I see him run with the ball 30 yards and pass at 5.
• 42:06
  There should be other way around.
• 42:07
  You're only at 5 and pass at 30. The ball moves.
• 42:09
  I think you have an unhealthy negativity.
• 42:11
  I don't, and I'm a fan. I'm a fan.
• 42:13
  He's the first name on a team sheet.
• 42:15
  I don't. For me, he's not a great
• 42:17
  midfield player. He's a very, very big.
• 42:19
  I think he's very important. I think he's the best Arsenals
• 42:21
  team, the best player in that position in the world to me.
• 42:23
  Wow. OK.
• 42:24
  Better than Rhodri, yeah. Yeah, interesting.
• 42:28
  We'll leave it there for now. Move.
• 42:30
  On to be continued. Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:32
  The International. And doesn't get enough goals.
• 42:34
  Well, he scored two of the great goals of all time.
• 42:36
  He's real material. In one game, in 5 minutes.
• 42:38
  Or is it 15? Is it 25?
• 42:40
  Have you ever scored? Have you ever scored a free kick
• 42:41
  better than one of those two? No.
• 42:44
  Exactly. No.
• 42:45
  But I've scored lots of good goals from outside the boxes by
• 42:48
  the criticism. Actually, he scored two of the
• 42:50
  greatest. Free kicks I I was there that
• 42:51
  night. Capabilities.
• 42:52
  I was there that night but I don't think we can compare
• 42:56
  Declan Rice or Graham soon as. Just by the way, thank you.
• 43:00
  Arteta is going to go on a tear now.
• 43:02
  I I am convinced we're going to win the league now probably
• 43:07
  every year for the next five years.
• 43:17
  People think they know what happened during my time at
• 43:19
  Rangers. Trust me, they don't know the
• 43:20
  full story. The signings, the rows, the
• 43:23
  wrist, the decisions that upset a few people and a fair few
• 43:26
  stories I've never told before. It's all in my Rangers out on
• 43:30
  the 15th of October. It's available to pre-order now,
• 43:33
  so get your copy 1st and hear the full story before anyone
• 43:36
  else. International window, of course,
• 43:39
  said goodbye to two of the world's greatest ever players as
• 43:41
  well. Let's start with the easy one.
• 43:43
  Lionel Messi, 21 years playing for Argentina with a career that
• 43:46
  he's had as well. Graham, what?
• 43:48
  What do you think about him? What can you say?
• 43:50
  I mean, there's an argument for him being the very best ever.
• 43:57
  I think I'll learn more towards him than Ronaldo right now.
• 44:01
  I say right now, in the last 21 years, I think Ronaldo's an
• 44:06
  absolute goal machine. You know, if you look at his
• 44:09
  records, second to none. I'm an enormous fan of his, but
• 44:15
  I'd say that maybe better than both of them was married on.
• 44:18
  The reason this is even the best Argentinian.
• 44:21
  The reason O'Donnell was way better.
• 44:23
  Than the reason I say that in those days there was a bit of
• 44:26
  thuggery out allowed. Terrible.
• 44:28
  Pitches. Terrible pitches which meant you
• 44:30
  had to take an extra touch, which would mean you're more
• 44:32
  likely to get challenged and the referees would a lot more go.
• 44:35
  Maradona was the three of them are fearless.
• 44:38
  All great, great players, strikers, you talk about tough
• 44:41
  guys in football, it's not centre backs, full backs.
• 44:44
  You kick people with their back to them, they're tough guys or
• 44:47
  the strikers they're facing that way, they want to go that way
• 44:49
  and we've got people coming through them.
• 44:51
  They're they're really tough guys.
• 44:52
  So those 3, apart from being absolute superstars, they're all
• 44:57
  got a bit of, you know. Come on then, you know why?
• 44:59
  You know why I put Maradona above Messi?
• 45:01
  Because they both won the World Cup.
• 45:04
  But actually if you look at Messi's, this is where I think I
• 45:06
  always side with Ronaldo purely for the choices he made with his
• 45:09
  career. Because Ronaldo's won the league
• 45:11
  now in five countries, right? But he constantly tested himself
• 45:14
  in different leagues. You know, he did it in in, it
• 45:18
  started off obviously great in Portugal, then he came to to
• 45:20
  England, then he goes to Spain, then he goes to Italy right now.
• 45:23
  And sadly, if you look at Messi's career from the age of
• 45:26
  16/15/16, he's at Barcelona playing with the greatest
• 45:30
  players in the world in one of the great teams repeatedly over
• 45:32
  that entire period. Denny's big risk is he goes to
• 45:34
  PSG with Neymar and in Bad Bay in a league where they're going
• 45:37
  to win everything. And then he goes to America at
• 45:40
  36. So to me, that's why I give
• 45:42
  Ronald Devich, he's done. He tested himself a lot more.
• 45:45
  Maradona goes from Barcelona after what, 2 years and goes to
• 45:50
  Napoli, who'd never won a lottery ticket and he goes to
• 45:55
  this rough, tough Neapolitan city and he wins them the league
• 45:59
  twice in four years, right? And has that amazing drama.
• 46:02
  Do you remember the Italian World Cup when they have the
• 46:04
  World Cup in Italy? And the semi final is Italy,
• 46:07
  Argentina in the Naples stadium and he scores the winning goal
• 46:11
  and they're all booing the Argentinian national anthem and
• 46:13
  he's swearing it his own people, right?
• 46:15
  In a way. But give me Maradona and
• 46:19
  Ronaldo. Over all of us.
• 46:20
  See, longevity comes into the argument.
• 46:21
  Yeah, you know, Maradona came under influences when he was in
• 46:26
  a tillage. Obviously didn't help him.
• 46:28
  Can't tell you a Maradona story. So I'm playing for something.
• 46:31
  Doria. We're playing Napoli at home.
• 46:33
  Of course you played against him, Yeah.
• 46:35
  We drew my number comes out to get drug tested #10 for Napoli.
• 46:40
  So I'm in this in this. You'll be drug tested with
• 46:43
  rounded off. Yeah, so I'm in this, I'm in
• 46:44
  this little room and there's two, he has two doctors with
• 46:48
  him. I have one doctor, there's two
• 46:49
  doctors from the FA, So I'm saying to my doctor, I can't
• 46:53
  play, give me a couple of beers. He's saying no, no, just water,
• 46:56
  just water. He can't pee either.
• 46:58
  So after 1/2 an hour, you know, we're looking at each other and
• 47:01
  then there's a bit of whispering goes on between the doctors from
• 47:03
  the FA and his doctors. And the FA doctors leave the
• 47:08
  room. One of his doctors got his
• 47:09
  bottle and peed in it for. Really.
• 47:11
  Yeah. And I asked my doctor to do it.
• 47:13
  He said no. Really.
• 47:15
  That's. Me thinking it'd be a Merida on
• 47:17
  the pitch story, but we should. You catch him as well.
• 47:21
  It just bounced off on because like these, you know, you can't
• 47:24
  intimidate these people. Do you remember Messi, who was
• 47:27
  the centre half at Real Madrid? That was Ramos.
• 47:30
  Ramos, he smashed them in the chops and Messi was covered in
• 47:33
  blood. That was the worst thing he
• 47:34
  could have done to him. He just went to another level.
• 47:37
  I think he only got two goals and that's what Ronaldo was.
• 47:40
  That's what, that's what all the great players have.
• 47:42
  My personal opinion, I I was the presenter at Sky for four years.
• 47:45
  On Spanish football. I saw Ronaldo, obviously he was
• 47:48
  an incredible footballer at Manchester United.
• 47:51
  I felt that he went to Spain and realised the only way he could
• 47:54
  keep up the numbers in terms of goals was to be that one, two
• 47:59
  touch box player. Lionel Messi, What I saw, scored
• 48:03
  more or less the same amount of goals but still control games
• 48:06
  and was playing that like that number 10.
• 48:08
  So I will always go Lionel Messi.
• 48:10
  I understand that you'll go, Ronaldo.
• 48:12
  He's a goal machine. Ronaldo.
• 48:15
  Your man Ronaldo, he will pass 1000 goals around January,
• 48:19
  February, right? People can quibble about where
• 48:21
  he scored the most recent ones that it's more than just scoring
• 48:25
  goals. Bear in mind in his last ten
• 48:27
  matches for Portugal, he has scored eight goals and he's 41
• 48:31
  years old and it's incredible. And I sat the first time I
• 48:33
  interviewed him was in Turin. So we'd had the most I mean, we
• 48:37
  started becoming friendly in the most bizarre manner imaginable.
• 48:41
  He's the most followed human being on Instagram by a mile.
• 48:44
  And out of nowhere I get a a direct message from him on
• 48:47
  Instagram. Hello, Sir, I love your crime
• 48:50
  films. Would love to talk to you about
• 48:52
  it. And it was Christiano and I was
• 48:53
  like, can't be you know I replied.
• 48:56
  I said I'd love to talk to you. Next day he calls me for an hour
• 48:59
  and a half talk about the crime documentary interviewing serial
• 49:02
  killers, even his his his now bride, Georgina used to like
• 49:07
  watching them on their their boat and at home.
• 49:09
  So I started sending him a few early copies of it, right?
• 49:12
  So that's how we became friends. And then eventually after about
• 49:15
  8 months, I broached the subject tentatively even maybe an
• 49:18
  interview. He said sure, come, come to
• 49:19
  Turing. So he was at Juventus.
• 49:21
  So we go out, do an amazing interview, amazing for one story
• 49:25
  actually, which I think is amazing and tells a lot about
• 49:27
  him, which was he told me that he they, he was so hungry,
• 49:31
  literally hungry because I was talking about his son.
• 49:34
  He's a very good footballer. But he said the one thing I can
• 49:36
  never give him is actual hungry. And he was so hungry that him
• 49:40
  and his mate used to go around the back of a local McDonald's
• 49:42
  at the Sporting Lisbon Academy. They'd walk down the road for a
• 49:45
  mile to this McDonald's and two friendly ladies in the
• 49:49
  McDonald's would give them free burgers, right?
• 49:51
  And he never forgot. And he said we've been trying to
• 49:52
  find these women. And when I last saw him in
• 49:55
  Riyadh last year, this is like 8 years later, he said piss.
• 49:59
  I found one of the McDonald's ladies.
• 50:01
  She came up to me at Lisbon airport and just said I'm one of
• 50:04
  the women. He said I'm going to take care
• 50:06
  of them, which I can only imagine what that was.
• 50:08
  And then he had a guy next to him called Jose Iveda, who is
• 50:11
  out in Saudi with him and he said I started telling him the
• 50:14
  story and Cristiano Laughter went busy, busy.
• 50:18
  He was the other guy with me when they were 12.
• 50:21
  So that's his. That's his maze and he went out
• 50:24
  and did journeyman pro stuff in in the in the Premier League and
• 50:28
  Championship. And then he ends up Alan Naseer
• 50:31
  playing with Ronaldo and now he's the CEO.
• 50:33
  I think of Alan Naseer. They're both the same age, 41,
• 50:36
  incredibly nice guy and so he's going to take care of these
• 50:39
  McDonald's ladies. Isn't that amazing?
• 50:41
  Amazing story, First time I met Ronaldo, there was an older edge
• 50:44
  with my wife and we're having dinner and then walked.
• 50:48
  Paul Stratford, was he 17 when he went to United?
• 50:52
  Something that you're really young. 18. 18 walked him with
• 50:56
  this young Claire and I assume it must have been George Mendez
• 51:00
  and I was introduced to him then.
• 51:01
  Yeah, I was manager, I think Blackburn rose at the time.
• 51:03
  Well, he felt Albert Mendez over my interview when he left me
• 51:05
  United because he didn't tell Mendez he'd done it, because
• 51:08
  Mendez would have persuaded him to not do it and he was
• 51:10
  determined to do it. But the point about the Shireen,
• 51:13
  we had dinner afterwards and I said to him, you know who's the
• 51:16
  best player you've ever seen? And he said Messi, but he said,
• 51:20
  But I've never seen myself he. Doesn't let himself on tell you
• 51:23
  much. He considers himself one, but he
• 51:25
  did think that Messi was #2 and he also said there'd been lots
• 51:29
  of players he felt who had reached their level for a few
• 51:32
  years, but not many years, not lots.
• 51:34
  Well, he, he named Ronaldo, Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho.
• 51:40
  I can't remember the other ones he mentioned.
• 51:42
  There were there were like 3 or 4 players he put up there.
• 51:45
  But he said Neymar. But but they all either had
• 51:49
  injuries or they had partying issues or whatever.
• 51:53
  They had short shelf lies at the very top.
• 51:55
  And he said the difference with me and Messi, and the reason he
• 51:58
  said we've been so competitive for so long, for two decades, is
• 52:01
  we've stayed incredibly fit. Do they genuinely not like each
• 52:04
  other? No, they do like each other, but
• 52:05
  Ronaldo is one of those guys. Each other.
• 52:07
  I think they both wake up and they look at each other's
• 52:09
  numbers, right. You know, I, I don't know about
• 52:12
  you whether you had, did you have someone in football where
• 52:15
  you would look at that? You must have had somebody
• 52:17
  midfield rival in the world. Brian Robson must have been up
• 52:21
  there. No, Rob and I, yeah, we used to
• 52:23
  have. Really.
• 52:23
  Good. I think there's a lot of respect
• 52:24
  between Ronaldo and Messi. Yeah, but unbelievable
• 52:27
  competition too. But but what you just said about
• 52:30
  Ronaldo and and the other players, This is why I put Messi
• 52:33
  just a little bit above, see. Because he's more than just he.
• 52:36
  Seems like no, he said Maradona, Maradona, Maradona was another
• 52:39
  one because he said Maradona was really at about like a 56 year
• 52:42
  period. That was it, right?
• 52:44
  You can say the same about George Best, about Paul Gasco
• 52:46
  and about a lot of players who, for whatever reason, only have a
• 52:50
  short period of years in which they're playing at their best
• 52:53
  ability. On Ronaldo when he was at Man
• 52:56
  United 10, Ha, I took Ronaldo's side, yeah, because I think he'd
• 53:01
  been told the tale. I mean, I don't believe that he
• 53:04
  signed Ronaldo in that dressing room.
• 53:06
  If you're looking for the ultimate professional, the guy I
• 53:10
  know I said earlier to you must have good senior pros.
• 53:13
  You could not get a better professional in him, the way he
• 53:16
  looks after himself. But he's the first thing in
• 53:18
  training last to leave after dragging off the training
• 53:20
  ground. He's on it.
• 53:21
  You can see he's the way he looks.
• 53:24
  So I think a conversation would have taken place with him and 10
• 53:27
  Hag about, well, I can't start you in every game, but you've
• 53:30
  got enough football to make you happy and tell me if you want to
• 53:32
  go anyway. And and they fell out big time.
• 53:35
  And I think the same thing may have happened with Jesus.
• 53:37
  Well, they fell out again over respect.
• 53:39
  So if you remember in that last period at United, it was in the
• 53:42
  season before which ended in May and he left like in like
• 53:45
  September. Under a club, which is.
• 53:47
  Right. But in the season before he
• 53:49
  scored eighteen Premier League goals and six Champions League
• 53:52
  goals, as many Premier League goals that season as Harry Kane
• 53:54
  and everyone was like and he was 303738, right?
• 53:59
  So he was still delivering unbelievable numbers.
• 54:01
  And if you remember his wife, now wife Georgie, they lost a
• 54:05
  baby, right? It was a very powerful,
• 54:07
  evocative thing in his life. And you know, it's this guy I've
• 54:10
  been through a lot. His dad died when he was very
• 54:12
  young, never saw him become a superstar and so on.
• 54:14
  He's had a lot to deal with and they lost his payment.
• 54:17
  It really affected him. I know it did because I was
• 54:18
  speaking to him and then they had another little family issue.
• 54:22
  Won't say what it was, but it was a it was a health related
• 54:24
  thing. And so he wanted a week off
• 54:26
  before he came back in the close season to deal with this, and
• 54:30
  they didn't. They just didn't believe him.
• 54:32
  This is my new. Yeah, they didn't believe him.
• 54:34
  And he? Well, he said, they didn't
• 54:35
  believe it. It'd be 10 hugs.
• 54:37
  Yeah, they just thought he was just wanted time off, which is
• 54:39
  so unronaldo like, but he felt really insulted that that was
• 54:43
  how they were. So that ties in nicely with
• 54:45
  what's happening right now as well with George Jesus.
• 54:47
  So you've obviously come out and been very strong in defence of
• 54:51
  Ronaldo as well. But for those who don't know
• 54:54
  this sort of Ronaldo side, there can't be many.
• 54:56
  But just explain. Simple terms, because people
• 54:59
  have mischaracterized what it was really about.
• 55:01
  It's simple terms. The end of the World Cup,
• 55:02
  disappointing World Cup, obviously.
• 55:04
  So they have a proper conversation after the World Cup
• 55:07
  in which Ronaldo is very clear, like, do you want me to carry
• 55:10
  on? Because if you don't, it's not a
• 55:11
  problem. I can handle you not wanting me.
• 55:14
  And they said no, we absolutely want you to continue, right.
• 55:17
  So then they get to this full match period of the Nations
• 55:20
  League and he talks to Jay Zeus and and the president.
• 55:23
  They have a proper frank conversation.
• 55:24
  He said, look, I'll want you for two of the four games, OK?
• 55:28
  I think he suggested initially the two home games and then not
• 55:31
  travel. Ronaldo felt bad about being
• 55:33
  captain and not travelling with the team.
• 55:35
  So then a bit of a thing. Anyway, they ultimately agreed
• 55:37
  with two games he'd play and two he wouldn't.
• 55:39
  And in the first game Jay-Z says to him, you're going to get 90
• 55:42
  minutes in this one, OK? And Yanks him after 67.
• 55:46
  Slightly pisses Ronaldo off because it's against what he'd
• 55:48
  been told he's going to do. But he went, OK, fair enough.
• 55:51
  Then he's not supposed to play against Norway.
• 55:53
  And Jay-Z says to him, I want you to give me 30 minutes.
• 55:56
  I know it's not part of the plan.
• 55:58
  We agreed, but can you give me 30 minutes for another?
• 56:00
  Says, well, look at 41. I have a whole regimen based on
• 56:04
  when I'm playing days off chefs. You know, he's got a whole army
• 56:07
  of people that keep him in. Let's be honest, to say we'd all
• 56:10
  like to be in at 41. And but he says, I'll give you,
• 56:14
  yeah, I can do that, I'll do it. And then he makes him warm up
• 56:18
  for 25 minutes and never brings him on.
• 56:20
  And afterwards they have a huge rat, right?
• 56:22
  The president, the coach, Ronaldo, he said why, Why lie to
• 56:25
  me? Why do that?
• 56:26
  Why not just tell me you're not going to play me, which is what
• 56:28
  we agreed originally, or leave me on the bench or whatever, but
• 56:31
  don't make me warm up and then not use me like that.
• 56:34
  It's just incredibly disrespectful.
• 56:36
  He thinks he's earned the right as the number one cap to play in
• 56:39
  Portuguese history and by far the number one goal scorer in
• 56:42
  international football ever. The.
• 56:44
  Greatest ever player. He's earned the right he felt
• 56:46
  does not be treated disrespectfully like that.
• 56:49
  Anyway, the coach backs down, apologises to him and says I'll
• 56:53
  make good. In the press conference, they
• 56:55
  agreed the parameters. It's not the script.
• 56:58
  He's not going to read a script. But they agreed the basic bullet
• 57:01
  points aggressive, didn't he? Well, if you go and watch the
• 57:04
  press conference and you look at what they'd agreed and the
• 57:06
  reason they did the bullet .8 point thing was to remind
• 57:09
  everybody that the sort of basic points that they had reached
• 57:12
  consensus on that Jay-Z was supposed to touch on in the
• 57:16
  press conference. Instead he totally ignores all
• 57:18
  that goes out, does the big I am pulls, as I put it at 10 hug,
• 57:22
  basically puts Ronaldo back in his box.
• 57:25
  All my players will get treated the same.
• 57:27
  I'm the coach. I decide what happens.
• 57:29
  Boom, boom, boom, boom. That's what happened.
• 57:31
  And what pissed off Ronaldo is that it was the line.
• 57:35
  He could he's I can cope with not being picked.
• 57:37
  I can cope with not continuing after the World Cup.
• 57:40
  But if you're going to tell me Cristiano Ronaldo, the most cat
• 57:43
  player in Portugal history, the most, the most cat player in
• 57:46
  international football ever and the most highest goal scorer, if
• 57:50
  you're going to tell me boom, boom, boom, I expect you to keep
• 57:52
  to it. And that's what it's been about.
• 57:55
  It's about respect. It's not about whether he would
• 57:57
  be picked or benched or anything.
• 57:59
  So I'm not sure about the coach and I've never met him.
• 58:03
  I'm basing it on this and you can back me up.
• 58:05
  Ex Benfica. Shell.
• 58:08
  I'm a shell. Yeah, There was a guy who was
• 58:10
  sort of a team when I was coach, team manager, lovely man.
• 58:14
  Dental never raised his voice. I played against him.
• 58:17
  He's from Mozambique, originally wasn't.
• 58:19
  He. I think so, yeah.
• 58:19
  Lovely man Benfica went to Tottenham, Tim Sherwood was was
• 58:23
  was the coach him and him and Tim Sherwood and he's just were
• 58:28
  have no like confrontation and Shell's come over and try to
• 58:33
  pull he's away and he's turned violently on Shell and really
• 58:39
  went after him in front of with the cameras in front of everyone
• 58:42
  in the stadium. And I thought really Shell, we
• 58:46
  know Shell a really nice human being having someone like that
• 58:50
  talk to him. I thought I'm not having you.
• 58:52
  So do you side with Piers and Ronaldo?
• 58:55
  Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a Ronaldo fan.
• 58:58
  If you're a football player, haven't been on that journey and
• 59:01
  you look what he's achieved and what he's still achieving and
• 59:04
  the dedication he must put in of every hour of every day to look
• 59:08
  like that and retain his fitness.
• 59:11
  There's just it's it's not been known before.
• 59:14
  What is the greatest ever. He can argue that.
• 59:16
  Is he the greatest goal scorer ever?
• 59:18
  Yeah, we you, but like me and most people, I think because you
• 59:22
  seem messy, drop off and do more than just score goals.
• 59:27
  It sort of catches. Your eye a bit more.
• 59:28
  Could I do the Wet Wednesday and Stoke question?
• 59:31
  Very loaded. Question it's it's cold, it's
• 59:34
  wet, it's windy, and you've got to choose one player in the
• 59:38
  world. Ever.
• 59:40
  To score a goal, to save your life in those conditions, who is
• 59:44
  it? To me, that's where it's
• 59:47
  Christian. It's a hell of a.
• 59:49
  Question. He's done it if he's a Sunny.
• 59:51
  Calm, benign day. In.
• 59:53
  Newton, Barcelona and he's surrounded by world class
• 59:55
  players. He's not biassed, he's Lionel
• 59:57
  Messi. I, I, I could talk for hours
• 1:00:00
  about Lionel Messi and have a discussion with you at some
• 1:00:02
  point, but I have the utmost respect for Ronaldo.
• 1:00:04
  When he was 51 down in the balloon doors, he was the
• 1:00:07
  bridesmaid, Messi was the bride. He never gave up.
• 1:00:09
  He put it to 55. It's 85 now to Messi.
• 1:00:12
  But I think he's been a little bit disrespected and not just by
• 1:00:15
  George Giesso. So I think we're all perhaps in
• 1:00:18
  the minority in the public, but we're all in.
• 1:00:20
  Agreement and he will get the farewell he deserves and earns,
• 1:00:24
  but the problems that he's ever had in his career have only been
• 1:00:27
  when he's been, as he sees it, disrespected. 10 Hag, now Jay-Z
• 1:00:31
  and he looks after. There's a common theme and he
• 1:00:33
  looks after him fantastic. His mum's a fantastic, his whole
• 1:00:35
  family, his sister, his mum. He's got a very loyal team
• 1:00:38
  around him because he's very loyal from a good source.
• 1:00:40
  He doesn't like you. Well, he told me, Graham, as
• 1:00:43
  soon as he said he's that guy, he's a yeah.
• 1:00:46
  Is that what you're saying? I like Graham.
• 1:00:49
  I like Graham. He picked up that word very,
• 1:00:51
  very quickly, I'm sure. But it's it's good that it will
• 1:00:53
  be sorted. We should wait and see how it's
• 1:00:55
  sorted. But he deserves it and I think
• 1:00:58
  he deserves a pay off in the way that Lionel Messi got it as
• 1:01:00
  well. I want to ask you as well about
• 1:01:02
  the sort of the British sports media landscape and print TV now
• 1:01:07
  digital first media as well with uncensored and that's that's.
• 1:01:10
  Give me your numbers on that uncensored.
• 1:01:12
  Well, my my channel P is Morgan Uncensored, which is.
• 1:01:15
  The well, you don't advertise. I just asked for a number.
• 1:01:17
  You don't have to don't have to do this.
• 1:01:18
  We have promoter on here. We have a number of different
• 1:01:20
  channels, that's why I'm having to explain it.
• 1:01:22
  So Maya has we have four and a half million subscribers.
• 1:01:25
  So the average watch is about 1,000,000 views per piece of
• 1:01:27
  content, which makes us right now in the news opinion debate
• 1:01:31
  space, probably number one in the world, right.
• 1:01:33
  And nearly half of it is America.
• 1:01:35
  So we're very deliberate of a strategy of aiming towards an
• 1:01:37
  American audience. So off the back of it we
• 1:01:39
  launched History Uncensored, we've launched Royals
• 1:01:42
  Uncensored, we've now launched Football Uncensored, Haven't
• 1:01:45
  done World Cup Uncensored. You've been on the football 1
• 1:01:48
  and we're getting got good numbers for that as well
• 1:01:49
  already. He was that the one you weren't
• 1:01:50
  on? No, no, no, I think so.
• 1:01:53
  How does he feel? No, you weren't.
• 1:01:54
  Simon John Pierce doing during the World Cup, he's on every
• 1:01:58
  programme, whatever he's doing, he's on a jolly somewhere.
• 1:02:01
  So it was just Simon and. I the story won't.
• 1:02:03
  End well for you. Just just Simon Ion.
• 1:02:05
  We get the biggest numbers of all when he's not there.
• 1:02:07
  The problem is the week after I came back and he got even bigger
• 1:02:10
  numbers and that's because the tournament was bubbling to us.
• 1:02:12
  Right. It wasn't that I were hoping you
• 1:02:14
  weren't. No, I'd never be more.
• 1:02:15
  I've never been more bloody relieved than when the numbers
• 1:02:17
  came in. Probably.
• 1:02:19
  But look, I mean, but the point being that we've no, we've also,
• 1:02:22
  I think from a business perspective must be really
• 1:02:23
  interesting to me. I've been in mainstream media
• 1:02:25
  all my life, done mainstream newspapers and television and so
• 1:02:28
  on. I just looked at my kids.
• 1:02:30
  So my kids are 33 down to 14 and none of them watch television.
• 1:02:34
  They all watch YouTube on everything and so I realised
• 1:02:37
  that the the game has moved right in a big way, like with
• 1:02:39
  music when it went from vinyl to digital, you know, transport.
• 1:02:43
  I will say you look at Penny Farthings and Harley-Davidson,
• 1:02:46
  they're doing the same thing, just one's much quicker than the
• 1:02:48
  other. And I looked at it and thought
• 1:02:51
  there is now a, a mood out there for individuals like me, you
• 1:02:55
  know, big personalities, people love you, hate you or whatever,
• 1:02:58
  it doesn't matter. But the big personalities with a
• 1:03:01
  lot of experience in the media can launch YouTube based
• 1:03:03
  businesses which can really catch fire.
• 1:03:06
  And one of the reasons is that we have no marketing budget
• 1:03:09
  whatsoever. The marketing is my social media
• 1:03:12
  with the show's social. Media, how many followers do you
• 1:03:14
  have? Well.
• 1:03:15
  On on X I've got nearly 9 million on Instagram.
• 1:03:18
  Tune needs to get Ronaldo to start following you.
• 1:03:20
  Well, I'll tell you, when I did the first interview Ronaldo, he,
• 1:03:22
  he doubled all our metrics on social media on all platforms in
• 1:03:26
  five days, doubled them. That's the Ronaldo effect.
• 1:03:29
  So we just closed on an uncensored A investor round.
• 1:03:33
  We raised nearly $28 million and that's from a standing start of
• 1:03:36
  me owning it in 18 months. How much of that do you trouser?
• 1:03:40
  Maybe my? Grand.
• 1:03:41
  Make a lot teta on 70 grand a day he'll be a lot more than.
• 1:03:46
  That how much he he's pocketed with his 20.
• 1:03:50
  I'm sure you'll get it out of him.
• 1:03:51
  You know what? Once we finish, it's going to be
• 1:03:52
  worth a lot more than that in a few years.
• 1:03:54
  A lot more and and just find a one for me.
• 1:03:56
  Do you feel that the launch of say, Gary Neville's Overlap
• 1:03:59
  daily threatens the traditional giants of say, Sky Sports and
• 1:04:03
  and Talk sport as well, or or do you feel EU KS appetite of the
• 1:04:07
  football media? I think it's pretty.
• 1:04:09
  It's pretty insatiable. I did a show with a football on
• 1:04:12
  Censor with Simon Jordan and like we had 800,000 people watch
• 1:04:16
  it. I mean these anyone in the
• 1:04:17
  YouTube world knows using huge numbers for a fledgling channel.
• 1:04:20
  I think there's massive interest.
• 1:04:21
  Particularly a gift that keeps giving.
• 1:04:23
  It 100%, but also the Royals, you know, the Royals are Royals.
• 1:04:26
  Numbers are huge. If you get the right genre,
• 1:04:29
  there can never be enough stuff because there's so many people
• 1:04:32
  that want to just gorge off the entrails of these things.
• 1:04:36
  Brilliant. Which is why I'm here with you,
• 1:04:37
  helping you to gorge off my entrails, get your numbers up.
• 1:04:40
  I've just got to I've just got to beat Jordan's numbers.
• 1:04:42
  So if you're watching this, tell your friends, let's get the
• 1:04:44
  numbers above the Jordan interview because he would be
• 1:04:47
  insufferable. You know what?
• 1:04:48
  Ronaldo sent me a text yesterday.
• 1:04:50
  He'd heard a clip of me and Jordan.
• 1:04:52
  Well, as I heard, I sent it to him just to wind him up.
• 1:04:54
  And he said tell the blonde guy he needs to stay off the Botox.
• 1:04:58
  He's looking like an apple. So have you told him?
• 1:05:03
  Have you told him? I might send this one to to
• 1:05:05
  Christian and to Declan. See what he says about.
• 1:05:09
  We'll be happy. We've been very complimentary.
• 1:05:11
  Thank you for coming on. You've been great.
• 1:05:13
  I was. Really, really enjoyed.