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Episode 12: Sir Mikeal and the King · Crooked Tree: A West Memphis 3 Podcast

• Paul: Welcome to Crooked Tree, a West Memphis 3 podcast. Today we'll be discussing the murders of children. The details are graphic. Please use caution when listening and make sure there are no children present. We will post a map to our social media accounts that will help you navigate the content in this episode. On May seventh, nineteen ninety three, in the afternoon, upon conducting house to house interviews, I knocked on the door of fourteen ⁓ one Goodwin. I told him who I was and that we were just checking with the neighborhood to see if anyone saw anyone or anything unusual before or since the homicide. As soon as he opened the door and saw that I was a police officer, he immediately put his right arm behind the door, as if to purposely keep me from seeing it. Back everyone. I am Kristen and I'm here with my co-host Paul. We are West Memphis 3 researchers and victim advocates. And for this episode, we have some dark material to cover. It turns out that the city of West Memphis suffered another severe blow five years prior to the murder of our victims when they lost two other children in a brutal murder. Unfortunately, the type of tragedy that we're seeing with Christopher, Michael, and Stevie is not exactly unprecedented in the city. There was a terrible disaster that happened in nineteen eighty-eight. It shook the entire region and made headline news across the country. And this double homicide was fresh on people's minds, and that is evident in a newspaper article that appeared in a West Memphis newspaper shortly after our victims were found. On may seventh, nineteen ninety three, the West Memphis Evening Times published an article entitled Slangs Recall Other Brutal Crimes in City. I'm not going to read the whole article, but I'm going to read this important piece of it. It was five years ago when police found the bodies of seven year old Bianca Torado and her brother, two year old Maximilian McCoy, burned atop a garbage dump near Mound City Road. Charged with that crime were the children's mother, Barbara McCoy, and a companion, Mary Williams. Police said the two women apparently were involved in a religious cult and believed the children were possessed by the devil. The two were charged with capital murder, but were later found mentally incompetent to stand trial. It's absolutely horrific. And I can imagine that the community was still reeling from the loss of these two children when Stevie, Christopher, and Michael were murdered as well. And this goes into some of the background for some of the comments you're hearing. as we cover this case. People are keep talking about satanic cults, cults in general. This is not the first time that it had been alleged. This event from nineteen eighty eight is still ringing loudly in their ears. This tragedy was covered coast to coast from California. We found an article that was from Pennsylvania. All of these articles were from the Associated Press. So we're gonna dive into some of those articles so we can share the details of what happened. with you. This is from a July fifth, nineteen eighty-eight article. I'm just gonna read you some excerpts. They said that Barbara McCoy, the mother, is unemployed. Williams works as a teaching assistant in the West Memphis School District. And that's frightening to me that she worked with children every day and then was a participant in a double homicide of two children. Says that early Sunday afternoon A forest city man found the bodies of Bianca Torado seven and Maximilian McCoy two of West Memphis just off a gravel road leading to a dump site used by the State Highway and Transportation Department between West Memphis and the Mississippi River. He called the sheriff's office and investigators RD Clay and Walker discovered the bodies. The children were burned over seventy five percent of their bodies. Walker said Monday he suspected that the bodies were dumped Saturday night or early Sunday morning. He would not say when he thinks the children were killed. Clay said the children were slain elsewhere and then dumped and set afire. McCoy and Williams were arrested Monday morning at the motel six in West Memphis, Walker said, where the two had apparently been staying for several days. He would not say how the deaths occurred or what motives the women might have. That's what trial is for, Walker said. It has got to be someone with a sick mind, Clay said when asked about a motive. It would have to be. This is a sad thing. This is something I won't forget. This is very reminiscent. of the types of comments that were made by West Memphis PD after our three victims were found in nineteen ninety three. This is a complete shock. Two children burned and thrown away with the trash. Yeah. They were thrown out with the garbage. It's unbelievable. In another article, someone was asked about Barbara McCoy and they said she was a church going person. She always tried to have the best for her kids. That's how Patricia Moore described Barbara McCoy Tuesday. The state medical examiner plans to perform autopsies on the bodies of the children today. A bond hearing for the women in custody on first degree murder charges is scheduled this afternoon before Crittenden County Municipal Judge William Hal Rainey. Moore was a neighbor of McCoy's and once attended the same church she did. Moore said she never noticed anything that would lead her to believe McCoy was capable of killing her children. Moore said McCoy earned money decorating for weddings and sewing. Authorities also said McCoy had a third child who was not harmed. She is India McCoy, aged sixteen. William Gillespie, McCoy's stepfather, said Tuesday that McCoy and her three children were a lovely family. Gillespie, 66, said he didn't know Williams and he didn't know how McCoy and Williams had met or when. He said his stepdaughter's behavior had not been unusual lately. He said the McCoy family, which lived in a small frame house on 14th Street in West Memphis, was happy. Another neighbor of McCoy's Brenda Williams said McCoy and her children had lived on 14th Street for several years. She said the family had left briefly a few weeks ago to live with Mary Williams in Memphis. Brenda Williams said she did not know Mary Williams. Authorities are not speculating on how the women knew each other. He said authorities have not found any evidence that McCoy's children were ever in foster care or that McCoy had been reported for child abuse. A passerby found the bodies about one hundred thirty PM on Sunday and alerted police. The two women were arrested Monday at the Motel Six in West Memphis and are being held without bond in the Crittenden County Jail in Marion. Walker said they had been staying at the motel since Friday night, but he would not say if the children died there. The manager of motel six, Harold A. G, said the women checked in on Friday night just like normal people. He said he never saw the seven year old or two year old and doesn't believe the children were at the motel. AG said he didn't know if the sixteen year old daughter, who he said was with the women when they were arrested Monday, had stayed at the hotel with the women. He said he doesn't remember the women being guests at the motel before. Bill Kessinger was Superintendent of the West Memphis School District said Williams worked with children in a computer laboratory on the Chapter One Federal program at Jackson Elementary School. Kessinger said he did not know Williams, but her supervisor told him Tuesday that Williams had been in the district for ten to twelve years and had never had a disciplinary problem. So what's really important is there are two children that are found dead, they're burned, they're thrown away like garbage. The two women that are being accused of this are up in the Motel Six. They check themselves in on a Friday night. This Motel Six, by the way, is maybe six hundred feet east of where the tattooed man gets dropped off, except five years previously. The other thing is is that they mentioned Fourteenth Street. Now it's the intersection of Barton and Fourteenth is where two of our boys lived, right? Christopher and Michael Moore. And down on South Fourteenth Street at two one nine South Fourteenth Street is where Barbara McCoy and her three children lived. Maximilian and Bianca, as well as India, who is the older sixteen year old. So according to the manager at Motel Six, he never saw the two younger kids that would later be found murdered. He did, however, see the sixteen-year-old, and that's all we know. She was present when they checked into the motel and she was not found deceased with her siblings. In another Associated Press article, it says bizarre rumors in a packed courtroom marked the arraignment of two women Wednesday on capital murder charges. Barbara McCoy forty of West Memphis and Mary D. Williams thirty two of Memphis are charged in the deaths of McCoy's children, Bianca Torado seven and Maximilian McCoy two. The women were bound over to circuit court and ordered held without bond. The maximum penalty for capital murder is death. The bodies of the children were found Sunday in a trash dump on the outskirts of West Memphis. The bodies had been burned and were found in a plastic bag. He asks that the spectators for the bond hearing leave until five PM. Spectators milled on the front lawn among many television cameras and through the halls of the adjacent police station. The police finally shut off access to the courtroom. At six PM, McCoy and Williams appeared in the courtroom. Deputy prosecutor Joe Rogers requested that the bond be denied and the cases bound over to circuit court for trial. The judge agreed. No trial date was set. William Gillespie, McCoy's stepfather, who owns the house in which the family lived, told reporters Tuesday that a cross had been drawn with white grease on a bedroom mirror. And the glass was streaked by what looked like a child's fingerprints. He also said that large plugs had been cut out of a carpet. A dresser had been positioned so the mirror faced the wall, and what appeared to be blood had been found on stairs leading to the attic. Rogers would not comment on rumors of satanic cult activity. So conversations about satanic cults being in West Memphis and bringing about the deaths of children is nothing new. In nineteen eighty eight you could see it's happening right here. It was resurrected again into the conversation in nineteen ninety three. Everybody was talking about it as soon as these three boys died. And many of the people that were experiencing this event in nineteen ninety three were there in West Memphis for the nineteen eighty eight killings as well. Unfortunately, the news gets worse. In another Associated Press article, it says pending capital murder charges against two women may be affected. By the death last week of a seventeen year old witness. India Torado died last Friday after she was rushed to Crittenden Memorial Hospital in full cardiac arrest, Deputy Coroner Kent Hale said. She had been expected to testify in the trial of her mother, Barbara McCoy, and Mary Williams, who are charged in connection with the deaths of McCoy's two other children. Torado was rushed by ambulance from a West Memphis apartment to the hospital, and resuscitation efforts were stopped at one hundred eleven AM. ⁓ Prosecuting attorney Scott Hunter said there was no indication of foul play in Torado's death, but officials wanted to be sure of the cause of death. Although he declined to classify the importance of Torado's expected testimony, he said she was a witness to the alleged murder. Both women have pleaded innocent to the charges. Hunter said no trial date is set because the women have been in the state mental hospital in Little Rock for two or three months. is seventeen years old. She's preparing to testify against the killers of her brother and her sister, and then she dies the week before she testifies. Seventeen year olds who passed away from cardiac arrest just before her mother's trial. It's horrific. An entire family's wiped out. And the explanation for this is clearly that there's some type of mental health issue. But what is behind this is a clear sense of these people had some type of fringe faith or religion. That compelled them to do this type of behavior. And this is going to be in the psyche of everybody in the community that this is what happened here. And it's not normal for a seventeen year old girl to go into cardiac arrest. It's very possible that the stress of this situation caused some sort of cardiac event that led to her death. So it's very possible that her mother is also indirectly responsible for her death as well. Yeah, it's absolutely horrific. This Last article we're gonna cover from the Associated Press says a minister who conducted funeral services Saturday for two young children whose bodies were found at a landfill said the service was the most difficult ever for him. It was the hardest thing I've done, Reverend Samiller Douglas Sr. said. More than two hundred people packed the small service room at West Memphis funeral home to remember Bianca Torado seven and Maximilian McCoy two. People spilled into the hallways and side rooms and And twice the number at the funeral attended the graveside service at Marion Memorial Cemetery, eight miles north of West Memphis. The bodies of the children were found last Sunday. The bodies had been placed in garbage bags and burned. The children's mother, Barbara McCoy forty of West Memphis, and Mary Williams thirty two of Memphis are being held at the Crittenden County Jail without bond on charges of capital murder in their deaths. When I got there I realized that my prepared text was inadequate, Douglas said. What inspired me to change the service was that everyone there had a question mark on their face. Everyone wanted to understand why this tragedy happened. Douglas told his listeners that whoever killed the two children had fallen to Satan, but acted individually and the actions weren't a reflection on the families. The families of these children and indeed the entire community have been asking all week why these two children had to be snuffed out so early, he said. People in my own congregation have come to me asking why God would let this happen. I told them that God didn't let it happen. It happened because someone gave in to Satan's desire to drive us to destroy ourselves and our families. Even at the funeral service for these two young children, the pastor is talking about Satan's involvement in the murders of these two kids. It's everywhere. Yeah, it's on everybody's mind. They're all thinking it. There was not any information that we could find about a service for India. I'm sure she had one, but there's there's nothing that we could Find from 1988 on her memorial service. An article did note that ⁓ she had dropped out of West Memphis high school as a junior, and that's pretty much all we know about India, and then of course her tragic death. This same article goes a little more in depth about how her brother and sister died. Bianca, who was seven years old, prior to being put into a plastic bag. And taken to a dump site and burned, died of a ruptured liver. And her brother, Maximilian, who was two, was smothered and suffered other injuries before he was put into a plastic bag and taken to a dump site and burned. These children died horrific deaths, just like our three boys died horrific deaths. This is sadly not a new story in West Memphis. These same people, this same community, these same kids, these same parents, these same pastors all went through this tragedy five years prior to the deaths of Christopher, Stevie, and Michael. And in both cases, the community is saying It has something to do with religion. It has something to do with extreme faith. It has something to do with occult, with satanic rituals. That's immediately where they go in both cases. When we lose our three children in nineteen ninety-three, the entire city erupts. There's panic. Parents are afraid to send their kids to school. The churches are overflowing. The entire world is paying attention and everybody is talking about Satanism. And anybody who tells you that that isn't the case is not being honest with themselves. It absolutely was being discussed early on, because it was being discussed in nineteen eighty eight. There was no debate in nineteen eighty eight as to what the motive was. It was some type of extreme religious experience that these two women were doing on these children. Maybe it was an exorcism or something like that. And it wound up in their deaths. And so they were talking about it then. So you get an idea of the background for this. And this is not the only time this has happened, by the way. There's there's another event that goes back in the nineteen fifties, and we'll talk about that at another time. And there's a triple homicide that happened in nineteen eighty five, where two women and a young man were killed in their home. These mass killings happened more than once in West Memphis in recent memory for the people that lived there. And so panic is going to spread. Unfortunately, on December eleventh, nineteen eighty nine, Barbara McCoy and her codent pleaded not guilty and on January the fifth nineteen ninety one they got a disposition of not guilty or an acquittal and I have read that that was for the reason of mental disease or defect. Basically they pleaded insanity and they were acquitted of this horrific crime that took the lives of two children by their own hands and then a third child while waiting for trial. Michael Moore is buried in Crinton Memorial Park. And within walking distance of his cemetery plot is Marion Memorial Cemetery, and that's where Maximilian and Bianca are buried. So if you ever get the chance to visit Michael, walk the extra two thousand feet and go and visit these other two kids too. So the reason why we spent a large amount of time talking about this nineteen eighty eight event is because there's no doubt that in the minds of many of the people in West Memphis that a supernatural event is playing out. They are going to be looking towards their ministers and towards the police for answers. And they're probably not going to get the answers that they're seeking. They want an immediate response and they're not going to get it. The other thing that's kind of interesting is from 1988, they are going to be looking at religious motives. And anybody that has a belief system that is non-mainstream is going to get the side eye a little bit. So you might have a situation where if you just happen to have a faith that is not mainstream in West Memphis at that time. The police are going to be taking an extra hard look at you just because it's not only as expected, but it's probably on their minds as well that hey, that we might have a nineteen eighty eight event all over again. And that really starts with our understanding of where our boys are that day. Let's go back to before they go missing at six thirty that evening on May the fifth. One of the places that we know that they are is in a neighborhood just outside of Devil's Den, and they're in the yard of a woman by the name of Deborah O'Tinger. Now Deborah O'Tinger has We've talked about several times in previous podcasts. And she's important, but let's remind you of who she is. She was at the end of Macaulay right by the White House and she was the one that was telling Officer Massingale about Satan worshippers in Robin Hood. And then later on, Diane Hester that evening decided to go over to Devil's Den. She talked to Thelma Turner and got an interview from Thelma Turner about teenagers carrying a knife behind her house out in Robin Hood. And then she went across the street over to Deborah O'Tinger Who lived at 1309 Goodwin Avenue? This is 160 feet away from Devil's Den. So she's right there. And she gave a statement. She said, I saw the three boys in my yard just before 6 p.m. So this is going to be a prime area for Diane Hester to return to when they begin doing the canvassing on 5-7 that Friday. So she begins canvassing the area and she gets 90 feet from Devil's Den and she knocks on the door of 1401 Goodwin Avenue. Now, 1401 Goodwin Avenue is right across the street from Deborah O'Tanger. And when she gets over there, She's met by some very interesting people. So in the door to door notes, she makes the following comment. 1401. This is 1401 Goodwin, of course. Fourteen ⁓ one, knocked on door at fourteen ⁓ one and met David Beasley, white male, late teens, early twenties, shoulder length, reddish hair. And then she draws a picture of a star with a circle around it. Obviously a religious symbol being implied here. Yeah, the interaction that ⁓ Diane Hester has at this home makes her suspicious. She decides that there needs to be a follow-up at this home and that the detectives need to investigate them further. So she writes an investigative summary to submit to them. It reads as follows On five seven ninety-three in the afternoon, upon conducting house to house interviews, I knocked on the door of 1401 Goodwin. The door was opened by a white male, late teens to early mid-20s, approximately five six to five seven. Slim built, shoulder length reddish brown hair, wearing jeans and no shirt. I told him who I was and that we were just checking with the neighborhood to see if anyone saw anyone or anything unusual before or since the homicide. As soon as he opened the door and saw that I was a police officer, he immediately put his right arm behind the door as if to purposely keep me from seeing it. I asked him his name for my records, and he seemed very nervous and wanted to know why I wanted his name, and explained again it was for my records only, and asked again. Again he asked why and would not tell me. I asked about three or four times before a black male with long cornroad hair appeared from behind the white male and said David Beasley. His name is David Beasley in a very agitated voice. The white male stated he had just moved here a few days prior and was from Los Angeles, California. I also observed what appeared to be about a four inch fresh scratch on the white male's chest. I then spoke with a neighbor of theirs who had Deborah O'Tinger and asked if she knew anything about these guys. She stated that they had just moved in on Sunday, may 2nd, 1993, and seemed to be very strange. She stated that they always seemed to leave together with the white male always opening the door for the black male. Further states that the black male is almost always dressed in black and wore a black robe with some sort of white cross or other sign on it. I also observed the white male wearing a silver chain with a star or a star in a circle or a cross on it. So these guys are going to get her attention really quick. They live directly across the street from Devil's Den, ninety feet away. And they live even closer than Deborah O'Tinger does to Devil's Den. So the boys are playing right there in that area, certainly when Deborah O'Tinger sees them right around six o'clock. So this is going to come up hot on their radar as somebody to be looking into. So that investigative report was filed on May the seventh. On May the ninth the West Memphis Police Department brings these two individuals in for questioning. These two men, they're going to be interviewed by Mike Allen and Brian Ridge. The first one that they're going to interview is a very interesting person. We're going to go over subject description, but it's the black male that was standing behind David Beasley when Diane Hester was talking to him at the door. So what's his name? Well his name is Sir Michael Williams or Sir Michael Williams. It's S I R space ⁓ I K E A L. It's so it's either Michael or Michael. Yeah. So he's got an unusual name right off the bat. Yep, and his roommate also has an unusual name. It seems that they have made these their legal names. So his legal name is Sir Michael Williams. And what was his roommate's name? His roommate's name is King David Samuel Beasley. So Samuel Beasley's Name is King David. That's the name he goes by. Yes. And so when Brian Ridge writes his name on the report, he puts King David in quotes and then Samuel Beasley. When I was doing some research on them, those are their legal names. When you look them up, he comes up as King David Beasley. Yeah. So these guys are definitely unusual. How often do you run into King David or somebody that refers to themselves as Sir Michael? But here they are and they're living right there, ninety feet away from Devil's Den. Let's go Through the subject description of Sir Michael. Okay. He is a black male, age thirty-seven. His occupation is a Pentecostal minister. He is from Pine Bluff, Arkansas, and he is just visiting West Memphis for a little bit. His current permanent address was Los Angeles, California. So these guys are Pentecostal, or at least Sir Michael is declaring that he's a Pentecostal minister. He's from LA and He goes by the name Sir Michael. I mean, he's a little different. The Pentecostal faith is not the predominant faith in West Memphis. There are a lot of Pentecostals that live there, but this is definitely a minority faith in a town that is dominated largely by Baptist theology. So these two men come in and they are separated. So Sir Michael comes in and he fills out his subject description at four fifteen in the evening and At four seventeen, King David, he does his subject description and they're in different rooms being interviewed by these two guys. Right. And that's typical police protocol. You've got two people that you're questioning. You don't want them in the same room so that they can talk to each other or, you know, give each other looks or shake their head at each other. You don't want them having any kind of contact when you're questioning them about something that has happened. So they are separated when they arrive at the police station and Detective Allen interviews Sir Michael and Detective Ridge interviews King David. And I just gotta say, anybody who ever looks at Mike Allen's notes almost on any of these files, he's recognizable right away. He writes coherently. He's got nice clean handwriting and he's thorough. He's extremely thorough. He's very thorough. Yeah. ⁓ Ridge, on the other hand, is gonna be a different matter. We're gonna be talking about Ridge's report here in a little bit. He's a little sloppier. Yep, for sure. All right, so Detective Allen asks a series of questions of Sir Michael and in his notes he states the question and the answer that Sir Michael gave. So very easy to follow. The first question is Where were you the evening of May fifth, nineteen ninety three? And Sir Michael replies on Wednesday night, May fifth, was at home, left to go to church around eight fifteen PM, had services at eight thirty PM. At the Church of God one hundred eight South eleventh Street in West Memphis, Arkansas, Reverend Holder's Church, and had services until about eleven or eleven thirty. Thinks that Wednesday night they ate at the Waffle House after services with Freddie Coulter and a female named Marie, last name unknown. Sir Michael Williams stated that King David Beasley takes him to the services and that he videotapes every service. So whenever you hear the word church of God, it's almost always indicative of a Pentecostal church. And so we have a Pentecostal minister who's going to a Pentecostal church. They're gonna be getting there at about eight thirty. King David Samuel Beasley is driving them over there. Apparently he's the videographer for this. So, you know, in nineteen ninety three, video ministries were a big thing where you filmed these events and you sold the tapes or you handed the tapes out, or you made them available for other people to study and to review. So that's what these guys are involved in is some type of video ministry. Right, second question when you pulled out to go to the church services, do you remember seeing anyone or anything strange? Answer. When we pulled out, normally the lady across the street is sitting out. He doesn't remember if she was out that evening. Well, given Deborah O'Tinger's propensity to keep an eye on those guys across the street, which we're gonna talking about here in a minute, it's probably her and sh they're saying we don't remember her being out there. Now One of the things we're going to find out is that Deborah O'Tinger's having dinner with her parents at six o'clock. So it's very likely that when they left, she was not out there at that time anyway. But what's really interesting is at eight o'clock, where are our children? They're missing and they've been missing for an hour and a half at that point. So these guys are living ninety feet away from Devil's Den and they don't see anything, they don't hear anything. They don't report seeing the kids. They don't report seeing Deborah O'Tinger. To them it was just a routine afternoon there in the neighborhood. ninety feet away from Devil's Den. They might not even know it's called Devil's Den because these guys were Yeah. These guys haven't been there very long. Right. So as you said, Deborah O'Tinger's gone, there are lots of other people not at home because they're also attending Wednesday night church services and the time that they leave at eight fifteen is about the same time that Mark Byers calls West Memphis PD to report Christopher missing and to ask for a deputy to come out there to take a missing persons report. Yeah. So they're leaving before the search really gets going out right in front of their house. All right, next question. Were you in the yard that evening before services? Answer. Stated that he doesn't go outside much. Mostly when he goes outside, it's leaving in the car to go somewhere. Question. When did you get to this area? Answer. Got to Memphis the fifth of March. Moved into fourteen ⁓ one Goodwin on Tuesday the fourth of May. Church member's house. So this is interesting because Deborah O'Tinger has already told The West Memphis PD that she thinks it's May the second. So that means that there might be some comings and goings going on for a couple of days. But these guys moved in the day before the boys went missing. So something to keep in mind. You've got these strangers coming in. They have these unusual names like King David and Sir Michael, and three boys disappear. Next question. Answer. Guest minister at local churches. Plans to go back to Los Angeles. He just sounds like Kind of your typical minister that is going from church to church and kind of cutting his teeth and probably looking for a place to call home at some point in the future. Yeah. All right. Next question. What kind of vehicle do you have? Answer eighty one Lincoln. Beasley drives a blue Honda scoop. And they've put in parentheses, Hyundai, it's a actually a Hyundai scoop. Those Hyundai scoops were the economy sports vehicle that a lot of young people drove back in the day. A lot of my friends drove them in the early nineties. Next question. Where did you meet King David Beasley? Answer. In Los Angeles about three years ago. Let's talk about their ages. Yeah, so King David Beasley, we're going to find out, is twenty years old, whereas Sir Michael is thirty seven. So go back three years, they're gonna be thirty four and seventeen. That's a huge age gap. Right. So Sir Michael is twice King David's age when they meet. So we don't know what kind of relationship they have. We don't know if they met a a church in California, if it's like a mentor mentee situation, if it's a big brother situation, or he just needed a father figure. We don't really know what their relationship is, but they met when King David was only seventeen. Yeah, my expectation is there was probably a youth ministry going on with which Sir Michael was involved and he met King David. Probably they realized that they had an overlap in interest in getting A video ministry done and they started doing this kind of thing is my expectation, but who knows. It also may be that King David had some interest maybe in becoming a preacher or doing something in the ministry, so he's learning from Sir Michael. Yeah, a type of mentorship. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, this is how it happens. And one of the things we're going to discover is is that they're on the more independent side of the Pentecostal faith and It's entirely possible. That mentorship only exists by having that type of relationship that the two of them have where he just comes right under his wing and starts learning it by being there and videotaping it and learning from the videotapes and things like this. And it's a way that you train new ministers. Yeah, for sure. And as impressed as I am with Detective Allen's questioning and certainly his report in comparison with Detective Ridges, I do wish he'd asked a few more questions. All right. Next question ever been arrested? Answer nineteen eighty four in Pine Bluff for theft by receiving over some stolen musical equipment, received probation, and mother died in nineteen eighty four and got some DWIs in California. Yes, so Sir Michael is laying it all out, right? He's not holding back. You're asking me questions, I'm gonna answer them even if it looks bad for me. And he's talking about this stolen equipment. These are things that he would have probably have atoned for both legally and ethically and morally. Certainly by nineteen ninety three, so he's probably open about talking about those mistakes from the past. But he's an open book. Yeah, he doesn't seem to be hiding anything. And the last question is, would you voluntarily submit your prints? Answer. I have no problem with that. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. I get the sense from this questioning that he's completely an open book. He's not hiding anything. He's just, hey, if you want some help, if it gets me off your radar, then Let's do what is required so that you move on to the appropriate people. But what's really also interesting is we're gonna find out is that he's not really the target of their investigation. The person that is raising all the red flags for them is King David Samuel Beasley. And the person investigating him, of course, is Detective Ridge. Yeah, and he's on the radar because of his interaction with Diane Hester during the neighborhood canvas. He didn't want to tell his name, he hid his arm behind the door. Then she saw four-inch scratch on him. So he's raised some red flags for her. So he is the one that they're the most interested in. And he's wearing some type of religious icon on his chest that she describes as a five-pointed star in her report. And a five-pointed star is not a typical Christian symbol, right? Those are more often found in non-Christian religions. So that's going to catch her attention as well. So let's look at what's going on with King David Samuel Beasley. So they fill out a subject description and He reflects that his residence is at fourteen ⁓ one East Goodwin, which is right outside of Devil's Den, but that his previous residence was in Panorama City, California, which is in the Los Angeles area. His occupation is that he does films and then slash Sir Michael Williams. So implying that Sir Michael Williams might be his employer or his colleague. He's originally from Granada Hills, California. He's five foot seven, a hundred forty five pounds. And he doesn't have any scars or marks other than a birthmark on his left knee that they noted. So those of you that think that this might be the tattooed man because of his red hair, it's not him. ⁓ he drives a nineteen ninety-one ⁓ Hyundai scoop and he has family relations in Las Vegas and California that he ⁓ marks on here. So he's a West Coast guy. And so he's out here with his friend Sir Michael, and he's finding himself being questioned about this triple homicide. And the person doing it is Detective Ridge. Detective Bridge's notes are all over the place. ⁓ there is some interesting information in there. Some of it's hard to read, but it's not as cohesive as the interview that we get from Detective Allen. Yeah, so the contrast with Detective Allen gives you the question. He actually writes down the question he asks the person. He then writes down the answer that he got back. That is not what Detective Bridge is gonna do. Detective Bridge is clearly asking a question and then he writes A fragment of the answer down, like a just kind of a cliffs note version of it. Maybe not even that, just a bullet point. And sometimes it's a fraction of a bullet point. And so you have to infer the question from the fraction that he has, what he means. Let me give you example. The very first thing that he has in his notes is the word Monday, 10th or 11th. Well, they're being interviewed on the 9th. So why is he saying Monday, the 10th or the 11th? Well, he's asking them, where are you going to be? Right? That's the obvious inference. What are you going to be doing on the tenth or eleventh in the next couple of days? King David says from eight thirty to eleven to eleven thirty PM, Sir Michael will be giving a sermon as faith revival reverend. So he's assuming that role and he's expected to do this. And he'll be a guest of the church pastor. The next line down below that is just the numbers twenty five to thirty. So you can raise your hand up and say, What does that even mean? Twenty five to thirty. It's probably the size of the congregation. But we really don't know because the question's not there. But it's probably a group of twenty five to thirty. We happen to know where the church is. It's a relatively small church. And when you put all the camera equipment in there and the congregation gets in there and the minister's up in front giving the sermon and doing what it is that he's doing, there's not a lot of space. So probably twenty five to thirty is what's going on here. And then it has the word Tuesday with nothing next to it. We don't know why, other than he's just saying, Hey, tell me what you're planning on doing on Tuesday and it's entirely possible King David says, I have no idea. So there's no note there. Like we don't know. Where are we going to be here? We don't know if we're going to be here. We don't know what we're doing. We just know that on Monday he's expected to give a sermon. Sir Michael is. Next line down says BM for black male. Nephew has been stationed. Camp Pendleton visited over six months ago. Have you put any thought into this one, Kristen, or what you think this is a reference to? Well, I was very confused when I first read it because first of all, King David is a white male. That doesn't mean he can't have a black male nephew, but also King David is twenty. So the chances of him having a black male nephew that is stationed at Camp Pendleton seems a little odd. I don't think that's very likely. I think that he is referring to visiting probably the nephew of Sir Michael, that they visited his nephew in Camp Pendleton together is my best guess. Yeah, it's probably Do you know somebody that you can name that we can verify where you were at some point? He's probably saying, Well, six months ago, Sir Michael's nephew was at Camp Pendleton. We were in California, we visited him. Right. That's the closest I can infer from this. And it might be completely wrong. We don't know 'cause the question's not written out. This is right one of the most irritating things about Brian Ridge's note taking. And this is going to be consistent through the investigation. He's not going to get better. And just above that it says two months. That could mean anything I'm inferring that it means that the nephew had been stationed there for two months, but I don't know. And this is the problem with this type of interrogation, right? And then he switches not to where have you been and who have you talked to and what are you doing here. He's now giving a description and he includes in his notes a drawing of a star. This is a star of David, and in the middle of it is a cross. So the Star of David is a six sided star composed of two overlapping triangles. And if you've ever seen a Star of David, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And then the middle of it is a cross. And so he has underneath that the words Jewish Star of David, spiritual representation of star, and had three cross of crucifixion. And by the way, he misspelled crucifixion in his notes. So Brian Ridge is out of his element. He's having difficulty explaining what's going on here. What's likely the case is that King David has a series of necklaces around his neck. Several of them include crucifixes. Entirely possible that he's trying to describe this, but again, we don't know. The next line says second necklace, African drum. What's really interesting about this is that when you look at standard Pentecostal naming, they use regular titles, just like everybody else. But these guys are using these really elevated names, King David, Sir Michael. It turns out that this is derived most likely from an African Pentecostal tradition where that type of thing is much more common. So now we know that these guys are coming from, again, a more independent side of the Pentecostal faith. Brian Ridge also notes that there's no scratches. He's clearly aware of Diane Hester claiming to see a four inch scratch, but he's saying no scratches. But we don't know if that means he lifted his shirt, or if there's an actual review of it. Was it on his arms? We have no idea. He does note that he was sunburned on his left arm from driving. Two days previously, Diane Hester noted a four inch scratch on his chest. Like that would be very obvious. He answered the door with no shirt on. And once she could see his torso after he opened the door a little bit more, she sees this four inch scratch. And then now Detective Ridge is saying no scratches, but it is completely unclear as to whether or not Detective Ridge asked him to either lift or remove his shirt. There's some other interesting little notes that he has in here too, which is the words groceries from Big Star. Big Star being a Grocery chain that is all over West Memphis. There's several of them, and we'll be bringing them up in future podcasts. The next line says jewelry for Sir Michael were gifts on different occasions. Scorpio sign, necklace, bought by King David for Sir Michael, also a ring. And then it gets down to who he is and where he's from in terms of his faith. Just get straight to it. And he says, Pentecostal, church of faith in God. And then he gives the name of a ⁓ bishop, Bishop Anna May, and I believe it says Sweiser. This is the worst. Handwriting I've ever seen, by the way. So if you can get a better interpretation of it, be happy to hear it. But Bishop Ann Sweiser, black female, and then the final words at the bottom of the interview is God is the judge. So this ends with a thorough investigation of what is your faith? What do you believe? How can I find you if I have to find you again in the future? I'd want to say something about these interviews because it struck me reading through them several times that both Seasoned detectives, Allen and Ridge, did not, at any time that we know of, show either of these men photographs of children who had been discovered murdered on May the sixth. They did not ask if they had seen any of these three boys, though they know that those boys were seen at two different residences across the street from them. This is a question they don't ask. Obviously they're new to the neighborhood. They're not gonna know these boys by name, but they could know them by sight. They could have shown them pictures and say, Did you see any of these boys? And This is something that I think would have been important to watch their behavior and gauge their answers and whether or not they're telling the truth. There's none of that and I will also note that there are a lot of suspects in this case that were given polygraphs. Neither of these men were given polygraphs. Yeah, they weren't polygraphed. They also straight out said, We don't have an alibi. We were home. Their alibi is each other and that they were at home on May the fifth, from six o'clock until nightfall, about eight o'clock. So they don't have a clean alibi from their own words. They of course they wouldn't know how to alibi themselves if they weren't part of the crime. They just know that they went and there was not really any ruckus going on. That wouldn't come until after they were already at the church. But to that end, both Sir Michael and King David Samuel Beasley were both fingerprinted. King David gave hair samples for the lab, and those hair samples would be submitted to the lab on May 10th and the next day, in fact, that Monday. Sir Michael was was not asked to give any hair samples at all. So it makes it very clear that the focus on this interview was King David. He's acting strange. What is the deal with this guy? Yeah, and they did do a little follow up. There's an extra note in the files on these two we don't know who wrote down this information. We can tell you by looking at the handwriting it was not Detective Allen or Detective Reg or Diane Hester. Whoever is getting this information is likely gathering this while the two men are being interviewed by detectives Allen and Ridge. What it says is address fourteen ⁓ one Goodwin. Utilities are being paid by Lisa Harris. So they've made some sort of inquiry as to who's paying the bills at 1401 Goodwin. Then it lists a license plate number. It is an Arkansas license plate number and it says it's an 89 Lincoln four door silver town car. And it says five seven ninety three tags in rear window. My guess is that they walked outside the police department and saw this vehicle. I think this is the vehicle that King David and Sir Michael drove to the police department for their questioning. And that is how they got this information in the description of this car. There is no description of King David's blue Hyundai scoop. It is only a description of Sir Michael's Lincoln Town car. So that's my best guess as to how they got this information. Then it lists King David Samuel Beasley's description, his California driver's license number, which is redacted. And underneath that it has two comments. The two are very weird. Weird spelled W-E-A-R-D, which is interesting. Weird has a weird spelling. Weird does have a weird spelling. And then black male wears robes with hood, etc., says he is a preacher. And that's it. that's what's on this additional note in the file. So this is May 9th, it's Sunday. It's Mother's Day. It's Mother's Day. So when these guys showed up, they could have showed up at the police station wearing their robes. It's possible. I mean they might have been on their way to church. They might have swung by the police station prior to going to services that evening. So kind of an interesting note. There's another interesting note in the file and the plot thickens a little bit more over some period of time over the next week, sometime probably by May 14. Deborah O'Tinger makes a phone call to the West Memphis PD, and she says she's keeping an eye on what's going on over at 1401. This, of course, is where Sir Michael and King David have been staying. And she reports that between seven o'clock and eight thirty, leave in robes with Huffle bags, same set, back after midnight. And she reports that this is one black male, two black females driving a charcoal gray Toyota two door. The other vehicle is a Nissan stanza. She includes the license plate number, which is a Tennessee plate. This is going to be in contrast with what we see from Sir Michael and from King David. And she notes when go inside, draw blinds. When leave, open blinds. So she calls and she reports this, and there's kind of a question as to whether or not these are people associated with King David and Sir Michael, or whether or not this is a new group of people that have come in and King David and Sir Michael have left. Yeah, so this house continues to be suspicious whether these two suspects that we're talking about are still there or there are new people in that house after they have left that home. She's keeping a close eye on whatever is going on at fourteen ⁓ one. Yeah, she is. Yeah. She's not she's keeping a very close eye. So now we're gonna move to June twenty-third, nineteen ninety-three, and Detective Allen writes an investigative report about these two gentlemen. It says verified with Reverend Joe Willie Holder, one hundred eight South Eleventh Street, stated that on May 2nd that Sir Michael Williams and King David Samuel Beasley were at his church from May 2nd through an eight day period with a revival. The revival started every night at eight thirty, says AM, he means PM, and ended at ten thirty PM or eleven PM. Both Williams and Beasley were there every night for services. They were giving revival on the evening of May 5th, 1993. This would appear to be an alibi for these two men. However, there's a problem with this alibi. Yeah, it's not an alibi. It's not an alibi because during the daylight hours, they're admitting they're sitting right there at Devil's Den and there's no accounting for their behavior. Yes, they're at home at the time that our three victims go missing. All we know is that Sir Michael and King David are confirmed to be at church at revival between eight thirty and ten thirty or eleven. And if you go by what Sir Michael said, he said they left at eight fifteen. So they're home prior to leaving at eight fifteen to go to church. This alibized them for absolutely nothing. Yeah, they should have been asked a lot of questions. They should have been asked, Who did you see? Did you happen to see these kids? Did you see any searchers that night when you came home from the Waffle House? Nothing was asked. And there is no verification that they were at Waffle House. They didn't go talk to a manager, a server, nothing to confirm. They didn't ask for a receipt for their meal. There's nothing to confirm that they were at Waffle House after the church service. And if the people that Deborah O'Tinger is reporting seeing coming in, the one black male and the two black females wearing the robes. are in fact a new group of guest ministers coming into the church, and this is reasonable that this is what's happening, you know, maybe a weekly rotation of new ministers coming in, then King David and Sir Michael are gone. Right. According to the Reverend, the revival began on May the second and lasted for eight days. So that's May second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth. So if they left after revival is over, they leave sometime after May 9th. Yeah, shortly thereafter. So right after they're questioned. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. So they're gonna close the books on these guys on June twenty third? Yes. On June twenty third, Detective Allen writes this report, which is basically a non alibi alibi. It's a non alibi alibi. So we got two short things in addition to this. So they're alibi and you'd think that you'd close the file. But as it is in this case, remember those lab samples that were sent off on May the tenth? The results for that came back on June twenty ninth. So six days later. And there were no lab matches. But they had been previously cleared already. This is kind of strange. You would expect that they wouldn't close these files until after the lab results came in and showed that there's no match here, but that's not the case with this investigation. And you would think again, that therefore we could staple this file closed, they had nothing to do with it, we can move on. But these guys continue to linger into the minds of the West Memphis PD. Private investigator Ron Lax included a note in one of his files. And it simply says handwritten sheet with names of Murray Ferris, Chris Luttrell, McHale, and Don Warwick, possibly related. This is dated to july twenty seventh, nineteen ninety-three. So what do these four people all have in common as far as the West Memphis PD are concerned? They all have religions that are non mainstream. So he's still in there. And in this case, it's moved from Beasley being the person that they're interested in to Sir Michael being the person that they are interested in. And then we don't see anything else in the file after that. Yeah, and we've noted it before some of the other suspects that there's generally an investigative report written that say, I reviewed this information, there does not appear to be a connection or there's no evidence between the suspect and these homicides that we're investigating. So unless there's further information that comes to light, they are no longer a suspect. Like we've seen that in several of the cases we've talked about so far. It doesn't exist here. Yeah, if you're holding a non traditional view, non traditional faith. then you might be interpreted as somebody that might be doing something extreme. Sure. And they took a look at a couple of people like this and you know, they're not wrong to look at the people near Devil's Den, but the fact that he had the crucifixes and the African drum around his neck and he was hiding his arm behind the door, this threw up a whole lot of alarms for the West Bempfist PD. And King David wound up getting interrogated over this very thing. It probably scared him to death that this happened. Inspector Gitchell was quoted saying that he saw no motive for these crimes. It has nothing to do with cults, with satanic cults, with any kind of rituals. I mean, he goes on the record saying those things, but it is clear they're looking at these strange guys who go outside in robes and have all this religious garb that they're wearing. Just that's what's interesting. It's you've got a neighbor that's reporting these guys because of what they're wearing and their behavior. It doesn't matter what Inspector Gitchell says, this is what's happening. And this is what they're investigating, even if he says that in the paper. Well remember, he also told the newspaper that they weren't investigating a metro cab man and they weren't investigating a tattooed man. And that was just not correct. Right. Yeah. Looking at their own files contradicts what he said in public. If you want to join the discussion, we strongly encourage you to contribute to the case by following Crooked Tree Pot on Facebook on X. Or to follow us on YouTube. Next time on Crooked Tree. Kim stated she saw Steve and Michael between 5 30 and 6 PM going into Robin Hood into the ditch that goes to the Devil's Den area. She saw their bikes parked by the road near Goodwin. Kim also saw three older boys coming out of Robin Hood near the dead end road off of Goodwin. One white male and two black males. She never saw Christopher that day.