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The Christian and Lent: A Perspective from Central Schwenkfelder Church · Centrally Speaking

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Centrally speaking, is the Central Schwingfelder Church's podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: It speaks about issues that would be of interest to our society.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: In particular, it addresses how a Christian worldview intersects with Western secular culture.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the spirit of the church's founder, we take the perspective of the middle way, which is in agreement with the historic Christian Church.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dr.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Drake Williams, Minister of Mission and Theology at the Church.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Our website is www.cscfamily.org.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Our topic today is the Christian and Lent, a perspective from Central Schwankfelder Church.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very glad to have my good friend Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: David McKinley joining us today.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: David's been the uh senior pastor here since uh 2005 at Central Schwankfelder Church, and he's led people through Lent, though, since 1997.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: So talking to someone who has quite a bit of experience in this type of time of season, and it's good that we uh talk about Lent as it is, uh Lent.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: David, welcome back.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Glad to have you share today.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Drake.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about Lent.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Where does the word Lent come from?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's uh that's a great question, Drake.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's an English word um that has uh an Anglo-Saxon background from lengthen or lengthen.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it matches up with the longer days of of the year.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So in the spring, the sun's out a little bit longer, uh, the daylight hours are longer, and so that's the idea behind Lent.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can compare it with the term lengthen.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: This season has been around for some time, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: The early church uh instituting this as a practice?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I I would say at least since the fourth or fifth century, uh, the church has been practicing Lent as a time of reflection and prayer.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: As we celebrate it now, how long does Lent last?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: When does it start?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: When does it end?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It it starts with uh the date that we know as Ash Wednesday, which usually falls in mid-February and lasts until Holy Saturday, uh, the day before Easter.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's uh relatively around 40 days, uh, so six weeks, dedicated to prayer, to fasting, to reflecting upon uh the crucifixion and the resurrection of Jesus?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's also a time of repentance.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: By the fourth century, Lent became a normal practice.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's an intense time of discipleship as well.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, in the number of years that you've been uh leading uh people through Lent, uh how do some Christians go about expressing this uh intensity or acceleration in their discipleship?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question, Drake.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh I read a meme recently that said uh Lent, Colon, the ideal season for introverts.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a time uh dedicated to prayer, dedicated to reflection, and as I said, fasting.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that term fasting might take on different forms for different people.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Take, for instance, uh our Roman Catholic friends might go without meat on Fridays during Lent throughout the six weeks.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Other Christians might eat just as much meat during this time of year as they always have.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or some Christians might give up, I've heard of Christians giving up soda or chocolate or their favorite television program or committing themselves to watching less television.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that is marked by a sense of sacrifice, so that a person might read their Bible and pray more and reflect upon what Jesus did for us in his passion.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: So someone might give up uh one or two things, uh, or maybe something that's especially dear to them uh during the season.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you've seen some Christians go a little bit to the extreme on this.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: What are some ways that you've seen some Christians uh uh go too far with their Latin disciplines?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Some ministers that I know have uh they they fast maybe two or three days a week.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm not to say that that's wrong to do.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think though the the the marker of of any practice that might not be beneficial is if the mindset toward it is, well, if I do this, then I'll earn more points with God.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the threshold.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think anything that a person can do to heighten their awareness of spiritual things, uh, to get into the Bible more, to get into prayer more, and it's good to sacrifice.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: But as we have seen from the writings of Martin Luther, uh that there is a sense which you can do that so much that it gets us off of the main point, which is living for the Lord and trusting in him and following him in discipleship.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so uh we can give up everything in our life, but if we have not love, or if uh we don't have a concern for our fellow uh man or woman, then I think that uh the practices can come in the way of good things.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a friend that I'm not sure it was during Lent, but it was at a particular time in his life where he really got into fasting, and so he would not eat dinner with his family at night, and he would kind of lock himself in his room and not associate with what the ones that he loved the most, and unfortunately that had a detrimental effect on his family life.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, our practices need to undergo some evaluation uh to see if they're in fact healthy for everyone involved.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not just uh an individual uh that maybe makes a decision, but maybe it's uh something at least we're taking into uh account our friends and and maybe even the church as well.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I would agree.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people think of uh Lent as a time to give up, uh, but some people think of Lent as a time to do something new or to uh start a fresh spiritual discipline.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how have you seen some Christians uh start a new discipline during Lent?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: We as a church, Drake, incorporated a Lenten communion service that we hold on Ash Wednesday every year.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: We've started that a number of years ago, and uh we're a church that we partake of the Lord's Supper a handful of times each year, and so we added a time for our church, our congregation to come together and observe the bread and the cup and Jesus' sacrifice for us.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a full service with a message, and uh, we also practice communion a little bit differently on that night where people come up to the chancel area rather than the bread and the cup coming to them.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a beautiful wooden cross that has many nail holes in it, and a person is able to take a nail and place it into one of the holes and reflect upon their sin and the Lord's great forgiveness.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one practice that we have incorporated in church life is that Lent and communion service.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's also a lot of publications that come out in the season of Lent: Bible studies, devotional readings, things that can supplement our prayer time.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So those things are excellent.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Also, we as a church sing different songs during Lent than we do at other times of the year.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we recognize that Lent has a different mood to it than say Easter.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Lent is more reflective and appreciative and worshipful, maybe with a touch of sorrow compared to Easter, Resurrection Sunday, which is more celebratory.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Lent is not necessarily celebrated, but it's observed, and it's a time of reflection, prayer, repentance, and study of the scriptures, whereas Easter or Sundays through Lent are more celebratory and happy and joyful.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this seems like an important time of year for a Christian to uh experience.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um certainly there are times of joy, uh, Christmas time and Easter, but but there are aspects of uh uh sorrow and repentance um that are important for Christian life too.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: But not all churches celebrate Lent.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is Lent optional in your your mind?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Optional.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's an interesting word, Drake.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think that there is freedom and liberty in the body of Christ uh not to make certain devotional practices uh just absolutely mandatory.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we don't want anyone to participate in the observance of Lent under coercion, but at the same time, it is a time to set aside to reflect.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love what Candace Lucy writes.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, she said, Lent is meant to be a time of repentance.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: These 40 days are set aside to praise and worship the Lord, to read the Bible more, and to pray more often.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Christians who observe Lent correctly anticipate deeper intimacy with the Lord.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is, why would anyone want to pass that up?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we live in a society where we're distracted all the time, through our cell phones, through the internet, through our very busy schedules, and it's very easy to leave the Lord out of our daily lives.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: We might attend church on Sunday, but even church attendance has gone down in recent years.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Lent is an opportunity of rededication.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: As Jesus said, if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So Lent is a time of self-denial and commitment to the Lord.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you and I both know that in Catholic and Lutheran churches on Ash Wednesday, there will be the application of the ashes on the forehead that can be taken in a couple of different ways.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a reminder of that we're made of dust, as the psalmist says, and so the application of the ashes is a reminder that we're made of dust, or uh, as was the common practice throughout the Old Testament, is uh coupled with repentance, is to be adorned with sackcloth and ashes.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very somber mood uh that attaches itself to Lent.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So is it optional to a degree, but I think a person has to ask themselves why would I pass up the opportunity to devote myself um more thoroughly to the Lord?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: So uh certainly something that's uh advisable.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's a a time of um repentance or a time of uh extra uh discipline in a Christian's life, and Lent brings that out.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if if discipline is going to be anything, you and I both know it has to be practiced.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh not just a decision that a person makes, but it has to be followed up with practice.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: And to have it coincide with uh the regular practice of the church makes sense uh so that one's not doing it by themselves.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's a good point.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Are there special days in Lent?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And some people think of St.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Patrick's Day as maybe a day off or Sundays as being special.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh is there a particular perspective uh from uh Central Schweinfelder Church on Lent and special days?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's my understanding that at least in the Protestant tradition, if not also in the Catholic tradition, that Sundays uh people take off uh from the somber mood of Lent uh because Sunday has always been a day of celebration in the life of the church because Jesus is risen from the dead.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh Sundays, uh Lent is not practiced as other times during the week, and that's why in the Western tradition, Lent would be 40 days, so it's through the week, but not including Sunday.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then also St.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick's Day, the feast day of St.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick, uh the missionary to Ireland, uh, that's a festive day, and so Lent would not be observed on that day.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, uh many years ago uh there was uh a church order uh that said that uh at least uh our Roman Catholic friends could eat corned beef on St.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick's Day rather than abstaining from meat as there as was their practice.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: So Sundays, St.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick's Day, uh kind of seen as uh oases from the regular practice of Lent.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Schweinfelders aren't Catholic, although uh Lent has uh been uh connected with uh Catholicism uh throughout the years.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um do uh Schwenfelder churches celebrate Lent any differently than uh Catholics uh you alluded to a few things uh with that required to.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, uh although we have many former Catholics that are attend our church and are members of the church, uh but the Schwenfelders are Protestant, and so uh we tend not to practice some of the same things that the Catholic Church does.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, we do not apply the ashes to the forehead on uh Ash Wednesday.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we might have a mindset of adding to our spiritual practice rather than taking away from.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just my general observation in the life of the church, we probably tip toward studying the Bible more rather than taking something away from our daily life, uh, though that's not to discredit the practice of fasting or giving something up.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: But uh one thing that we have done is we have for many years had the Lenten Luncheon Bible study, uh, which took place on Wednesday.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Every Wednesday of the season of Lent, it would be taught by the ministers.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we would gather sometimes around 20 people in our fellowship hall.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: We would enjoy soup and a sandwich and uh and study the word of God, study themes in scripture, study the life of Christ, uh, study the character of our Lord.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and these were uh wonderful times.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I came from a tradition that didn't necessarily take a lot of effort in practicing Lent.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so when I came to the Schwenkfelder's 22 years ago, I was uh blessed and happy that uh the season of Lent was observed in this way.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Alluded to uh one uh thing that we've done in the church uh over uh time of Lent, uh Lent lunches.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are there any other special things that happen in uh central Schwenckfelder Church uh during Lent that you want to bring out at this time?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned earlier, we have the Lenten Communion service that happens on Ash Wednesday, um where people place the nail on the cross and partake of the of the Lord's Supper.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we also have uh, as has been our uh practice, the Easter story, which is uh uh a play of sorts uh where we will reenact um the passion of our Lord as well as his resurrection from the dead, and that has been a community outreach uh sponsored by Freddie Hill Farms uh for many years.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Other things that we observe uh over the season of Lent might be uh handing out special gifts that aid our members and visitors in their devotional lives.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, might give them a series of readings or a devotion to go through in the season of Lent.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh from time to time we might have special speakers that might reflect on uh Lent or some aspect of the Lord's life.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's more adding to rather than taking away from.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Final word that you'd want to have on uh Lent, or maybe a favorite, uh a special uh scripture text to draw our attention to as uh bring our conversation to a close?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I love what our Lord said.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: He said, for the Son of Man did not come uh to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lent for me is a time to reflect upon uh the great sacrifice of Jesus for us as his church, and that we would up the ante of our discipleship, that we would recommit ourselves uh to uh the way of the Lord and following him in a society that doesn't.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that this uh in these days and these times uh we have wonderful opportunities to point others to Christ.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had the blessing of um sharing with a friend recently that there are times in which uh in our lives that God taps us on the shoulder and reminds us that we can't do life without Him.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so John 15 5 comes to mind when Jesus said, Um, apart from me you can do nothing.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: So those are things that I think about during the season of Lent, and that's what I would encourage everyone in our church with is that um commit yourself to the Lord because he has certainly committed himself to you.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's a good way to uh finish our conversation today.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh thanks for taking the time to talk about Lent, and we look forward to uh your leadership uh uh during this time.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, David.