Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 65. Elizabeth Stride - The Ripper's Third Victim?

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65. Elizabeth Stride - The Ripper's Third Victim? · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: welcome to whoded What Now? The history podcast That's not
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: your history class with me your host Katie Charlwood, History
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Harlot and reader of books. Oh, I am sorry for
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  Speaker 1: the delay in getting this episode out.
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  Speaker 2: I know it's just like a daily or almost a
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: daily at this point, but I was laid up for
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: two days with what I can only describe as an
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: excruciating headache.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I felt like someone was chiseling into my brain. I
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  Speaker 1: had to have ice packs on my face. I have
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: these like I can only describe them as smooth stones,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: like they're like polished stones, and they're very cool against
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the face, and I would press them on my face
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  Speaker 1: and move them around and stuff. Just apparently I want
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: to move stuff inside your head. I don't know. I try,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I would try anything that I mean. This is the
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  Speaker 1: girl who literally made a wish on a dandelion the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: other night because they ran out of ideas of things
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to do that could help a situation. A friend of
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  Speaker 1: mine was in hospital and I was really upset and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: really worried, and I wasn't gonna pray was I know,
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  Speaker 1: it's not helped me so far. So I crying in
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  Speaker 1: my back garden away from people, hiding, hiding from people.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I was, and I'm getting the laundry its and I
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  Speaker 1: know I was crying in the garden holding a dandelion,
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  Speaker 1: making a fucking wish because I was scared shitless because
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  Speaker 1: I was worried that this person was gonna die. And
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  Speaker 1: that's that's that's exciting. I just, oh, man, I just
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  Speaker 1: I made a wish on a fucking dandelion. So no
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  Speaker 1: wonder I'm using stones and shit, maybe there's properties in
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  Speaker 1: them that do stuff I don't know. I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: So in news, I suppose skipping ahead from me having
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  Speaker 1: a fucking breakdown. It wasn't a breakdown. I was just
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  Speaker 1: really sad. And it's okay to feel sad about things
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: and to feel helpless, and especially when I'm near divergent
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  Speaker 1: as well. So sometimes I know that I'm not gonna
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  Speaker 1: be the most comforting person, and I find it easier
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: to be comforting when I'm physically in the space with
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: someone like that's not possible, like in this scenario, because
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: like you'd be surprised, like how much relief can be
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  Speaker 1: provided with like a hug I'm such a good hugger,
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  Speaker 1: even though sometimes like I just can't deal with it.
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  Speaker 1: But it's another story for another day. But I'm such
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  Speaker 1: a good hugger, It's ridiculous. It's like I'm very cozy,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: like I snuggle very well sidebar. My children use me
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: as a pillow quite often. Sometimes they'll straight up lie
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  Speaker 1: on me like I'm that comfy. And also they're dicks
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: who like to make my sleeping uncomfortable. Not that is
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  Speaker 1: so much anyway, but that's not the point. Anyway, I
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: had a point. I don't know what it was. Moving on,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I am going to be speaking at the very last
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Heartland Pagan Festival. It's into the night. It's it's gonna
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: be so good. I'm doing a talk with a Q
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  Speaker 1: and A. And then I've got three workshops. So the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: one our talk with a Q and A is Witchcraft
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: and Mysticism throughout human Evolution, and then i have three workshops.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: The Victorians Ruined Everything, A nineteenth century guide to Mystics
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and more, the Old Gods and the New Colonialism, ethnic
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: cleansing and the Pagan Revival, Paganism and the patriarchy over
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: five centuries of demonizing women, so yeah, there's also going
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: to be a live podcast recording there as well, but
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you'll actually have to be there to find it what
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: that is. So I'm gonna put a link for registration
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: down below, and you get a discount if you use
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the code Katie twenty three So Katati I E two three.
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  Speaker 1: So that's gonna be fun. Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna be
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: in August of this year. I'm going to be doing
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  Speaker 1: a speaking engagement, little talk we chat, something a bit
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: fun at Leiden fanhe Workhouse for Heritage Week because the
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: famous Living Heritage and you know, I I've got to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: we something that must leave You're gonna love it. I'm sorry,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: but my friend Shanna just she just sent me a reeal.
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  Speaker 3: She's one of the few people that I allowed to
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: send me memes because she is one of the few,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: and she sent me of I think it's sharing someone
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: who are dressed. The only way I can describe it
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: is TACKI camp, rhinestone cowgirls, a.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Happy, fucking giggling Jesus Christ. We last years and years
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: we had a theme of women who definitely didn't kill
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: their husband's party. It was very fin fatal, it was
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: fabulous and there was gowns. There were gowns, darling and crowns,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: gowns and crowns, because that's just how we live our lives.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: And I am now planning the tackiest, takiest outfit and
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy. You have no idea like this is
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: going to be glorious. Oh my and oh godness, I
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: don't even know if I mentioned it. I and a
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: personal note deleted all of the dating apps. I just
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: deleted them. I don't I'm not on anything. I'm not looking.
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  Speaker 1: I'm content with where I am right now. It's good.
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  Speaker 1: I like it. I like where I'm at. I think
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  Speaker 1: I'm in a really good place. Like mentally, I say,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I mean the lives a shit showing everything around me
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: is going mental and oh oh yeah, I sent my
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: book a proposal, my book proposal into like the publishing
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: agent that reached out to me, the first one, And
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: now I've had another publisher reach out to me. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm not going to like deal with them until or
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: unless things don't work out with the first one, because
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  Speaker 1: I kind of feel like a dick about it, you know.
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  Speaker 1: But we'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes.
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  Speaker 1: But I know what you're thinking. You're thinking what your
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  Speaker 1: jibber jabber in fact me, In fact you, I will.
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  Speaker 1: But first we've got to get our source on Elizabeth
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Stride and Jack the Ripper, The Life and Death of
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the Repeated Third Victim by David Yost, The Five by
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Haley Ribbinholt, The White Chapel Murders, The Bendigo Advertiser, The
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: White Chapel Murders, Penny Illustrated Paper, The Illustrated Police News,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the Police Registers of Public Women. I'm going to apologize
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: for my pronunciation on these next couple ones, U Godburg, Lanzarkivitz,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: the Corusit records. I feel like I've seen come underwater
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: during that immigrant in popular Gotborg's dom Kirko for some
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: lean Oh, and the eighteen thirty five to eighteen sixty
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Gothenburg Census. Why can't I pronounce things properly today? Nightwalking,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: A Nocturnal History of London by Matthew Beaumont. Sex, Sin
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and Suffering venereal Diseases in European society since eighteen seventy
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: by Leslie A. Hole and Roger Davidson. Domestic Service and
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the Formation of European Identity by Antlinette. Full of Shimu,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Syphilis and Marriage by Alfred Fournier. Coming Sexual and Social
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Politics in Victorian London by Seth Coven. Coffee and Coffee
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Houses by Olla Heis. The Rise and Fall of the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Victorian Servant by Pamela Horn. A History of European Women's
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Work seventeen hundred to the Present by Deborah Simonton Inden
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: The Nation's History by Franklin D. Scott. Policing Public Women
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: The Regulation of Prostitution in Stockholm eighteen twelve to eighteen
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: eighty by Yvonne Spanstrom. Jack the Ripper, The Definitive Casebook
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: by Richard Whittington Egan and Casebook dot Org. Are you
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: sading comfortably good? Then let's begin. So before we really
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  Speaker 1: get into it, we should probably touch base on a
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  Speaker 1: few things about Elizabeth Stride. Elizabeth is known as the
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  Speaker 1: third canonical victim of Jack the Ripper. I have a
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  Speaker 1: difference of opinion on that one, and I will explain
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  Speaker 1: why at some point during this ramble. And also in addition, furthermore,
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  Speaker 1: Elizabeth definitely falls into the category of what some would
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: seems as the less did. Definitely she would fall into
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  Speaker 1: this idea of being a less worthy victim. And the
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  Speaker 1: whole purpose of this series the five canonical victims of
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  Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper, is to tell the story of these
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  Speaker 1: victims of their lives. And I'm not saying that Elizabeth
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  Speaker 1: was necessarily a bad person. I'm just saying that she
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  Speaker 1: is a product of her environment. And did she always
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  Speaker 1: take the most righteous path? No, but sometimes that path
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  Speaker 1: wasn't really available to her. And yeah, but let's let's
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  Speaker 1: just get into it. So this episode is dedicated to Aubrey.
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  Speaker 1: And now let me tell you the tale of the
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  Speaker 1: life of Elizabeth's Stride, the third canonical victim of Jack
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  Speaker 1: the Ripper. So Elizabeth was originally born originally born as
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: no originally from you know, that's funny. I'm keeping it in.
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  Speaker 1: I don't care. Elizabeth was born Elizabeth, Gustaf's daughter on
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  Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of November eighteen forty three, to Gustaf
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  Speaker 1: Ericsson and Vetta Carl's daughter at the Stora Tumulhead farm
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  Speaker 1: in Torslanda, Sweden, which is still like relatively close to Gothenburg.
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  Speaker 1: Elizabeth is the second child in the family and also
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  Speaker 1: a second daughter, so she has a big sister Anna Christina,
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  Speaker 1: who's like three years older than she is. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure that these farmers in rural towslanda were really
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  Speaker 1: happy to have another girl in the house and not
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  Speaker 1: a strapping young man who could do the heavy farm stuff. Well,
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  Speaker 1: they don't actually have to wait too long because her
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  Speaker 1: younger brother, Lars is born in eighteen forty eight and
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  Speaker 1: he's fat in eighteen fifty one, so you know, there
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  Speaker 1: were boys coming. It's fine, but this is you know,
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  Speaker 1: a farmland and it was actually a period of drought,
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  Speaker 1: so like obviously that's not good. However, even though this
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  Speaker 1: is not the best time, like agriculturally, you know, this
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  Speaker 1: family is actually doing pretty okay. So Gustaff's he's pretty
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  Speaker 1: comfortable as a farmer. They're doing pretty well because they've
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  Speaker 1: got like fields of potatoes and flags and grains and
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  Speaker 1: all that good cereal stuff. But they've also got cows, chickens,
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  Speaker 1: pigs and a horse, so like they're doing fairly well.
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  Speaker 1: They also have servants. Now, there was this act passed,
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  Speaker 1: the Servant Act of eighteen thirty three, and what it
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  Speaker 1: did was it made so that anybody who didn't have
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  Speaker 1: their own like source of income, Like they didn't own land,
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  Speaker 1: they didn't rent land, they didn't you know, have a
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  Speaker 1: full time job, they didn't have a trade, you know,
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  Speaker 1: anything like that. That it was compulsory for them to
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  Speaker 1: find a job, generally as some kind of servant. So
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: but this was like a two way street. So I
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  Speaker 1: meant that nobody could like overcharge for their labor, but
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  Speaker 1: also that they would have to be treated a certain
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  Speaker 1: way and they would have to act a certain way.
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  Speaker 1: So you couldn't like refuse like a reasonable request by
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  Speaker 1: your employer, So you couldn't decide to just doss off
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  Speaker 1: on something. But they had to pay you a decent wage.
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  Speaker 1: You would be dutiful and fulfill your obligations and you know,
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  Speaker 1: be obedient. But it also meant that you had to
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  Speaker 1: be looked after and cared for as a servant. So
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  Speaker 1: if you were sick or ill, it was your employer's
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  Speaker 1: responsibility to ensure that you were like well cared for,
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  Speaker 1: that you have the necessary like medical supplies, and you
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  Speaker 1: were looked after. They had to nurse you back to
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  Speaker 1: health effectively, and they also had to take care of
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: your spiritual well being. So your employer had to be
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  Speaker 1: the person guiding you you know, religiously. Yeah, And and
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  Speaker 1: the other thing that's funny about the social class in
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  Speaker 1: Sweden is domestic service wasn't generally seen as like a
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  Speaker 1: lifetime goal. That wasn't going to be your long term job.
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  Speaker 1: It was to be like a short term job before
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you got married, like and so like most families actually
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  Speaker 1: had servants. So like Gustav and Coole, they had servants,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, the children when they grew up, they
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  Speaker 1: would go and do some domestic servitude of some kind,
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  Speaker 1: and then they would get married and they would have
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  Speaker 1: homes of their own.
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  Speaker 3: Like.
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  Speaker 1: One of the reasons why women were supposed to go
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  Speaker 1: into domestic service was so that they would learn how
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  Speaker 1: to run a household as if they didn't grow up
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  Speaker 1: in one, you know, I mean. And the thing was
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  Speaker 1: it became a concept of kind of keeping up with
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  Speaker 1: the joneses. So some women in order to have that
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: you know, societal sort of peerage whatever they want, or
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: hierarchy I should say, which is not kind of the same.
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  Speaker 1: It's very it's very funny because like everybody had servants,
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  Speaker 1: so some people would have more servants even if there
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: wasn't enough jobs for those servants to do, you know,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: just to say that they had servants to just show off.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, in this farm there were servants and maids
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  Speaker 1: and farm hands all that good stuff. And again the
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: way that the class system, it's not like a cast.
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  Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of social mobility in this
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  Speaker 1: so like maids would share beds with like the daughters
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  Speaker 1: of the house. Like it was a communal living situation.
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  Speaker 1: You would be eating dinner at the same table as
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  Speaker 1: your employer. You would be doing your prayers with your employer.
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  Speaker 1: Like and I think her family was Lutheran. They were Lutheran,
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  Speaker 1: so Elizabeth would have had a Lutheran upbringing. So she
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: grew up with servants in the house, and she learned
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  Speaker 1: the basics of being a farm girl really and all
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the kind of things you would learn, you know, churning
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  Speaker 1: butter and all that kind of stuff, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff inside the house, how to
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: clean floors, other such things. Cooking of course, cooking is
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  Speaker 1: part of it, cleaning, cooking, domestic labor, you know. So
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  Speaker 1: she would have had a very basic education. So like
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: parishes would have schools and the boys would have got
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: like more of an education than she did, so she
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: could read as far as I know, but she couldn't write.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: But she wasn't and I'm gonna say she wasn't stupid, right,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: she was smart. And because she came from like a
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: good Lutheran family, you know, she was expected to have
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: a better knowledge of like the Bible and stuff, so
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to be well bursed on. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Elizabeth ghost OF's daughter, she has her confirmation at fifteen,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: and at this point, her older sister, Anna Christina has
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: already been you know, out doing her servitude for like
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: two years at this point, I think. And Anna Christina
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: is quite lucky in a way because this happened more
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: regularly than you'd think. So the employer that she she
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: worked for they ended up getting married, so she was
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: actually really really lucky in that sense. But because Anna
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Christina was already out there and already in Gothenburg, it
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: was much easier to find employment for Elizabeth, especially because
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Anna Christina was doing so well, and because she was
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a respectable young woman in that day and age. So
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: the fact that she was doing so well, you know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and because Anna Christina was such an upstanding it is
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: in you know, Elizabeth would be seen the same by extension.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And so Elizabeth, who's like a month away from her
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: sixteenth birthday, she heads to Gothenburg for her work as
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: you know, domestic servant as a maid. And you know,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: she's desirable as a servant because she is from you know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a rural area. So although there was like not really
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: like a distinct class system in Gothenburg, there still was
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: a preference. They wanted, you know, the farm girls. They
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: wanted the women who had not grown up in the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: city because growing up in the city it makes you
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: aware of the darkness and the debauchery that's sort of
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: kicking around. But these rural girls, these farm girls, they
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: were seen as you know, naive or innocent, depending on
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: how you want to flip that coin. So Elizabeth has
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: left Trusslanda and moves to the Carl Johan parish in
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Gothenburg and into the home of Lars Frederick Olsen. Now
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Olsen isn't like very rich, but again this is all
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: part of the servants act, and he and his wife Johannah,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: they have two servants. So you've got Elizabeth and then
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Lena Carlson, and I don't know how much work there
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: was for the two of them to do along with
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: like the mistress of the house. So I don't know,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: m but again it's more of a pride thing than
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: anything else. But you know, the girls couldn't really go
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: out and do anything without you know, the master and
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: mistress's permission, So they wouldn't be going out to the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: beer house, and they wouldn't be going out to meet
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: or find I suppose a paramore of any six you
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: know situation. And because of this, the majority of the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: company that Elizabeth would keep is basically whoever's in that
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: bloody house. So the men, the women, whoever is frequent flyers,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and the Olson household, that's the people she's hanging out with. Now,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: clearly some kind of ratonization happened in that household. And
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's not uncommon for you know, relationships
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to occur, you know, in those kind of close environments. However,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: there's definitely a power dynamic here. Even though he's just
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: like the wealthy, lower middle class. She's a farm girl,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, She's a servant, and regardless
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of how it works, a master and a servant, there's
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: always going to be a bloody power dynamic there and Elizabeth, well,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: something happens in that house because you know, contracts usually
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: last like a good number of years, because the whole
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: point is for these women to like get a grasp
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: on household, judys, and to like air in a dowry
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to like make their money. Now, it's supposed to last
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: for a decent amount of time. But this employment is
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: dissolved like just under two years, like a year and
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: a half. So October eighteen sixty two is when the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: employment starts, and then it dissolves in February of eighteen
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: sixty four. That's just over a year. And so she
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: moved to a different address, which is like just up
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the road, be bit. Actually it's just like around the corner.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And she's still listed as a domestic servant, but she's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: not listed as a servant to whom. So I'm thinking
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: logically about this. It seems to me that seeing as
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: she was in an abode and was not, you know,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: willingly forthcoming with the name of an employer, it seems
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: to me that she was maybe a little bit of
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: a kept woman. Maybe she had been promised something. Maybe
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: this person was making good on their promises, and maybe
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: they were going to have to stop that soon because
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: by March the following year, Elizabeth is very clearly pregnant.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: She's like six months a long. So wherever she went
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: to somebody was you know, having some fun up there.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: And this is a takes two to tangle. We don't
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: know if she was forced into a situation or whether
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: this was I'm going to call it grimming, you know,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: whether it was grimming or by force and then had
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: no other option, or was I don't want to see
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: a willing participant, because again, the power dynamic, it doesn't
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel comfortable, because at what point does she
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: really have agency? Because clearly she has been left out
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: in the cold in this one, and not just because
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: it's March and Sweden, but she's clearly pre and she
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: becomes of notice to the authorities. Now you're thinking, why
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: would they care if a woman was pregnant, Well, here's
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the thing. In Sweden, it was basically illegal to have
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: a child outside of wedlock, and if you were seen
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: to be less than virtuous, well then the police would
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: be looking for you. So they had this register of
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: public women right in Sweden. Well there's two lists actually,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: people who were suspected and then people who were well
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: official and basically, how I put it, it's like a
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: horror list. It's like a list of prostitution, and if
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you had a child outside wedlock, you're basically seeing the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: same a woman selling her body. Right now, I'm going
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to call this prostitution because I don't see agency in this.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Like it's not like modern you know, someone chooses to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: be a sex worker. This there is a lack of
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: agency here. This is a forced situation where women have
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: no other option. So Elizabeth, she is perceived as being,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: you know, a fallen women, and as such, she's basically
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: pushed into the scenario. So she has to go on
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: this list, this official register, and she becomes alman Kvina
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: ninety seven. Part of me just wanted to go like
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: touch with it, but with that weird Swedish voice I
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: do whenever I speak, touch and just be like setting
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: neckn it. And you would have been like, yeah, that's
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: totally totally Swedish. She fooled me there, No, no, I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: don't know Swedish numbers. Ah, my brother speak Swedish. I
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: probably should have asked him. But anyway, because yeah, up
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: until eighteen sixty four, like having affairs, committing adultery and
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: having illegitimate children was illegal. But the weirdest thing is, like,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: you know, this has gone now, but it's still perceived
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: as bad as dodgy is shitty, except the only person
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it seems to punish is the women killcy prise. So
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: this police register, you know, the two lists of the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: suspected and the actual lecherous living women oo full of
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: debauchery and deviancy and all those other d words. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: like she gets taken and gets put on this register.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: And people who are suspected, they're taken in through the
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: back of this like police station and they get inspected,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: they get a strip naked, and the whole point of
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: it is to shame and to ridicule and upset, you know,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the same thing we saw with Pollie in the workhouse.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Originally it's all to do with placing the burden of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the blame solely on the women, as if it's their fault.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And see this is where the Contagious Disease Act comes in.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: So there are these laws that you know, allow this
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: to happen because they're trying to like quell the spread
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: of syphilis, because of course it's the women's fault that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the syphilis is spreading, not the men who are wet
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: in their whistle. No, No, the women's fault for doing it.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So Elizabeth goes in, she gets inspected, and as it
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: turns out, she has syphilis. Now, syphilis is a weird disease,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: so it kind of has long term effects if not treated,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: and it's not treated the same way now as it
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: was then. Back then, it was treated with like mercury,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and they would do a sort of mercury infusions into
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: your body. They would do like how do I put it? Like,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: they would diffuse it. They would like have like a
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: mercury steam. Now, because Elizabeth was pregnant, they couldn't do that.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't use mercury honor, which is one thing. But
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: what they did use on her was acid. They used
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: acid to like cut off you know, wortz and whatnot.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: And trigger warning. I'm going to talk about child loss,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: so you might want to skip forward about a minute. Okay,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: So what happens is is she's in there for a
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: month and she ends up as a result of this
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: treatment prematurely giving birth and there is a stillborn baby
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: girl as a result of this treatment. Now, the child
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: could have contracted syphilis well being insider, but again we
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: won't know that because you know, this procedure caused an
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: early death. Now that's going to be an incredibly horrific
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: experience for this young woman to go through, and to
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: go through it alone, and to have again this horrific
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: shame and blame on her as if it's all her fault,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and she's in the crucus it and she is labeled
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: as a fallen woman, the villain, the viccin and basically
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: she can't get a job because she's on this fucking register.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: And as a result of this, she ends up having
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: to go into the very line of work they accused
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: her of initially night because clearly whoever the man was
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: who was supporting her initially, the moment she got picked,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: he just fucking skedadled like, I don't know what he did,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: but he didn't do the right thing, so what I'm saying.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And she ends up moving to what is commonly referred
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: to as Nymph Street. So it's basically just like kid
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: of the red Light District. It's just an area of
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: women selling themselves to the jones, you know, because they
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: have to fucking survive because there's literally no other option
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: available to these women because they're on the bloody register. Anyway,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: at some point after this, she gets treated for a
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: venereal ulcer and she goes back into the coal hooset
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and when she's there this time, so she had gone
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: out at May and come back in October, but then
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: of November that year she is seen by this lovely
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Lutheran lady, Maria Ingrid Weisner, so like her husband is
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: like a German composer, I think. Anyway, there was this
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: sort of trend that happened of sort of these lower
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: slightly lower class sort of religious women who saw these
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: fallen women as they were as came like a charity
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: case like rehabilitation, you know, they would provide them with
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: you know, spiritual counseling and give them an opportunity to
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: get out of this hole. So Elizabeth gets her healthy
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: tick ding ding ding all she goes and they're like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: she's cured. She's not, by the way, because syphilis comes
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and goes and it's dormant and it's a whole more
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: sort of just horrific, horrific things. But anyway, the symptoms
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: are cured. Shall we say, Okay, so she goes to
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: work as a domestic for Maria Wisner, and she gets
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: an offer of work of a home and someone willing
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to give her like a helping hand, an opportunity, and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth grabs it with both you know, she's like, yes, please,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: thank you. Because there's only two ways to remove yourself
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: from the police register, and that is, do you have
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: a you know, a decent member of society, state that
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: you've been like clean, loving and being a generally good
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: old person. And the other one was to get married. Clearly,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: whoever put her in that position didn't help her out.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: That's neither here nor there. So off she goes, and
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: she goes to work for the Wisner's and Maria writes
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a letter in order to get Elizabeth's name struck from
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: like the register of Shame. So now she's off the
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: register and she can start living her life a wee bit.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: And what's been happening in Gothenburg is this time it
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: has become like a pretty big trading city. So they
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: would be people like they were called like little Londoners
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: or something like that. So you would have all these
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: different nationalities coming in and out of Gothenburg, and the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: opportunity for work and travel. You know, it was more
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: common than you'd think at this time. And so Elizabeth,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: because she'd been there with the Wisner she wasn't there
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: too long, but because of the reputation that she'd gained,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: she was still being watched by the police, like they
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: were still keeping an eye on her, because having your
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: name struck from the register just wasn't enough for them.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: They wanted to at you again because of their own
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: twisted morality. But because she had to resort to prostitution
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: down on the Nymph Street, there was every possibility that
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: she would be recognized and her reputation would again be
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: thrown into question, and the shit would have the fan
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: for her. So she's only with the Wiseners a little
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: while when somehow she receives a windfall. So she gets
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: some money, and she says it's an inheritance from her
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: mother's death, when her mama died like a couple of
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: years earlier, So doesn't really seem likely. And also the
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: issue is that you know, women on her twenty five
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: in Sweden weren't allowed to inherit shit, so kind of
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: an issue. I don't think that happened, so clearly this
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: money came from somewhere. Could it possibly be from someone
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: who felt really fucking guilty? But everything they did to her,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: perhaps we don't know that. That's just a guess and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: educated guests, but a guess. Nonetheless, I didn't mean to rhyme,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: but there we go. So luckily, forratuitously, in a crazy
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: random happenstance, an opportunity befalls Elizabeth, an opportunity to travel
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: to England to get out of Sweden, and Elizabeth looks
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: around her life and goes, fuck this for a game
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: of soldiers and gets on a ship and heads to London.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: So when Elizabeth lands in London in the winter of
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six, she is working in this townhouse in
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Hyde Park or near hyde Park right who she was
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: working for were not sure, but they were fucking rich.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: They definitely were loaded. They had money, money, money, because
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you don't live near or on Hyde Park, not on
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Hyde Park who lives on a hyde Park park from
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the fucking pigeons, But you don't live near Hyde Park
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: without having decent dough. So she's there, she's working there,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: and as she's doing her daily errands, you know, she
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: saunters into a coffee house where we nibble and who
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: does she meet? Somehow, Someway picked John Stride, a carpenter
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: by trade in is like mid forties, and he's like
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: one of nine kids, which is I mean, sometimes being
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: one of nine is not too bad. I can allow it.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And he was for a while looking after his elderly
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: father who had made a business in a decent living.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: But for a bunch of reasons he off Skinarrow's and
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: ends up in London, you know, to make his own
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: way to be a decent carpenter. And he is being said,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: John was not Elizabeth's only admirer. So when she was
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: working in Hyde Park as you know, just a wee housemaid,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: she was courting a police officer. Don't remember if they
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: were City of London or the Metropolitan Police, because I
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: feel like there's maybe the met News Old I feel
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: like there's two. There's definitely two different police forces at
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: work here. But yeah, one of them there was a dude.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: He was a policeman and he was courting her. But
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: because domestic servant housemaid, the hours are long and unsociable.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and like another thing that would have been
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: difficult for Elizabeth, who I forgot to mention was apparently
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: just stunning. She was like five two and had like
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: dark curly hair. She was meant to be just gorgeous.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Elizabeth's hours were long. And also, like as
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I said, like in Sweden, the social hierarchy isn't really
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: as severe as it was and or as in England
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: or the UK, or however you want to put it. Now,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: you know, everybody had made in Sweden, like everybody had servants,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that it was kind of the norm. Everybody just did it.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: But here in the fancy townhouse in hyde Park, there
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: would have been a hierarchy. There probably would have been
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: like a butler, a housekeeper, a violet governance of some kind.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: There would have been like anything like loads of of these,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the hierarchy. It's a fucking paramedic people. But yeah, it
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: would have been a very different way of being. She
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: wouldn't like spend the same sort of time with her employers.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: There wouldn't be the same level of fratonization that there
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: was with you know, the people in Sweden, which I
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: guess is kind of a good thing for her. But
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: there is a rumor of like some kind of scandal happening.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: We just don't have any information, but just a whisper
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: of a scandal that forced her to leave that employment.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: And I think this was either late eighteen sixty eight
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: or early eighteen sixty nine, but whatever happened, she had
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: managed to leave with a reference, which is great, and
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: she ended up securing employment. And she ends up working
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: for Elizabeth Bond, who's a widow, and she owns this.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: It's a fancy boarding house, right, it's for the genteel
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: luclientell so like decent lodgers, you know, not scumming lodgers,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: like well, well groomed and mannerly respectable with just enough money,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you know, that sort of way. And then in eighteen
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: sixty nine, Elizabeth marries John Stride, and what's like funny
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: with this is she's Lutheran, he's Methodist. But instead of
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: picking like one over the other, they just get married
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: in like the local parish, just like that'll do that,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: chruck will do find Thanks brilliant. Now, Elizabeth, as you said, gorgeous,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and she's twenty five at this point. The Stride, we
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: literally don't have any definitive description of the man, but
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: he's in his mid forties, so he's either aged really well,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: or Elizabeth is looking for comfort in an older man. Again,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: not here to judge, but yes. On the seventh of
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: March eighteen sixty nine, Elizabeth, Gustaf's daughter becomes missus Elizabeth
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Stride and for whatever reason, I mean, we all know
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the reason, but Elizabeth she's keeping her past hidden. Like
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: she actually puts down a fake name for her dad
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: when she gets someone else to write it down, because
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I was like, she can't write, and she calls him
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Augustus Gustavson. Like she could have told them any name
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: and they would have been like, yep, that sounds right.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: She just made it up. So after they get married,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: they move out into the East End over to Poplar
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: because John is going to open his own coffeehouse, but
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: he's also near enough to the Docs as well, so
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: because he's carpenter, it's like you can fall back on
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: that work and that's great. So John and Elizabeth, you know,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: they're they're hoping they're going to grab people in this
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: coffee house because John's teetotal, and so he thinks this
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: is going to be like an easy and easy like jump. Honestly,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: they're just ahead of their time at this point. Because
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: selling a delicious caffeinated brew and an area with high footfall,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: that's just smart, Like, that's a real good idea. Unfortunately,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: they're the people of the time. They are more interested
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: in beer and gin than they are in coffee. Yeah,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: coffee houses. They kind of had a tough fight with
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the pubs. Really, you know, that's that's some stuff competition,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: which the Strides were soon to learn very very quickly.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So by eighteen seventy one, here's the thing, most new
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: businesses within the first two years, that's just a fun
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: fact for you, and this is no exception. So they
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: had to move their business because there just wasn't enough
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: people who didn't want to go drink boos. And also
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: it's the Victorian era. I'm not surprised people wanted to
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: get drunk, like I mean, have you heard about Chimney
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: sweep scroed them. I'm just saying. So they moved their business,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: you know, up to the Poplar High Street try and
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: get like more fitful, more trade. And this business wasn't
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: doing too well either, so they were kind of relying
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: on an inheritance. Actually because John Stride's dad, William, he
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: had properties he had built up like decent money. And
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: for most of John's life he had gone and supported
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: his dad, He'd stayed home, he'd done everything, and apart
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: from his brother Daniel, who seems to have had some
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: issues resulting in a whole thing where like Daniel stole
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: some money and John refused to prosecute him and eventually
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: he just leaves. John just goes to London. Now, so
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: when as dad William dies, everyone's expecting, you know, a
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: piece of the pie. Now, Daniel inherits like a fuck
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: ton of shitty earns property and everything else and money.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: His sister Sarah Anne, who lived just like three or
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: four doors down, she inherits some property. John's like pretty
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: rich brother who's a fucking surgeon as far as I remember,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Edward Edward, Yeah, he gets fucking property and everything, and
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: John gets sweet fuck all nothing, not a smidge, not
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: a whisper, not a consider. There is no reference or
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: acknowledgment to John in the will whatsoever. And I mean
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that is William, you are a petty bitch, That's all
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like, oh, and you say that women are
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: like the vicious one. It's clearly this dude spiteful, vindictive,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: just a dick actually just fucking awful. So, yeah, John, Elizabeth,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: they had to sell this to their coffeehouse, and John
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: had to fall back on his you know, his original
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: career as a carpenter. But again he's in his forties, like,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: he's not a young man, and this is physical work,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: like it's not easy, but he has doing. He's going
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to do everything you can to try and you know,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: keep them safe and secure. And it's eighteen seventy four
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: and he's working there, surviving and during all this time,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: you may notice I have not mentioned pregnancies or babies
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: during you know, a period where this would have been
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: likely to happen. It's Victorian London, like they would have
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: been shagged. But chances are that because of you know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: contracting sephalis when she did, it's highly likely that Elizabeth
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: was well and fairtile that she the very least couldn't
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: you know, carry pregnancy to term. But no children were
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: had at all during this time, So we don't really
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: have too much information or any real information. Over the
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: next couple of years, But in eighteen seventy seven, Liz
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: and John have separated. Liz she hasn't gone into a
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: workhouse yet, or anything like that. She's decided to take
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: her chances on the street. So she gets arrested a
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: couple times for like vagrancy, drunken, disorderly, you know. And
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: she used to live with a teetotal man, so clearly
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: she's out self medicating here. So because she has been
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: rough in it, she's been sleeping out in the streets,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth gets forced into the Popular Workhouse, like she has
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: to go now. She does return to John at some
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: point during that and they try to make it work again.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: So the following year, this accident happens. It's it's the
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: probably one of the biggest tragedies in London in the
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: last one hundred years, probably ish, and it's the Princess
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Alice disaster. Now this is but like a boating day.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: It's a day out for the members of this cheerman
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: in church, right, So it's mainly women and children that
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: are on this boat. And what happens is this boat
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: sinks and a fuck ton of people die, and Elizabeth
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: she's thinking, I can use this to my advantage and
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: she starts telling people that you know, she was there
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: with her you know, seven eight kids, nine kids, too
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: many kids, right, and some of them died. Her husband
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: died and they were in the kids were in an orphanage,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: and she got kicked in the face and that's why,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: like her teeth a damaged, and that's why she has
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: no palate in her mouth, which is a sign of
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: long term syphilis. For the record, and I've spent a
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: lot of time studying venereal diseases. Don't ask why, just
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: accept it. And she's not gone the official register of
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: people that applied for this grant that you could get
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: this relief fund. But she seems to be telling this
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: story to like anyone and everyone who listened to her effectively.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: So Elizabeth, she has heard about this. She speaks English
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: so well that you'd think she was English. But she
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: could probably convince people that she was German, because like
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: most English people probably wouldn't have recognized the different forms
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: of accents at the time. Yeah, it's foreign, and she
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: would have said I'm German, I'm from like a certain
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: part of Germany. They would have been like, yes, that
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: is correct, so yes. And she would tell the story
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: when she was separated from John, especially because she was like,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: my husband's dead, please give me money. My husband is
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: digit and it's very sad money please, So yeah, she
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: would use that and it would also be really convenient
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: for her when the time she was separated from John,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: you know, but they reconcile here and there, and then
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty she actually contacts us with these church
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: and asks for reallyef fund because John is sick. And
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: she enters into the Stepney Union Workhouse in February, and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: then in April that year she ends up in the
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Hackney Union Workhouse and yeah, she's got I heard about this.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: She's referred to as destitute, so clearly things are not
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: great for her. In Somewhere along the lines she gets
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: the nickname long Liz, something to do with her long
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: face or maybe her hair or another one I heard
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: was it was because stride means like a long step,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: and it was just like a play on that because
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, it's at least imaginative. It's
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: got a tiny bit of thought and there we should
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: but long List. She gets called long List and by
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty one she gets admitted to the Whitechapel Workhouse
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: infirmary because she's got bronchitis. So she's there. She's being
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: treated in like it's like December of that year, and
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: then by January of eighteen eighty two she gets moved
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: out of the infirmary and into the workhouse. So the
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: bronchitis is like, they're like, it's under control. You can
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: go into the workhouse now and you can work and
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: you know, end your cape. And I think John's also
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: in an infirmary or in a workhouse at this point.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: But their marriage completely breaks down, and then Elizabeth sort
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: of in and out here and there come seek THEMSA.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: She lives in thirty two Flower in Dean Street, which
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: is I'm gonna say dodgy to say the least. And
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty four, Liz Elizabeth she gets some financial
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: assistance from the Swedish Church and later that year John
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Stride passes away in the Poplar Asylum from heart failure,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: like he'd gone from the workhouse into the asylum because
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: he was dying effectively. But Elizabeth, she was in Flower
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: in Dean Street, which is again dodgy as fuck, and
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: she's listed as a charwoman, which is just again I've
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: discussed this before. It's like the lowest form of domestic servitude.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: It's just the really heavy work like it's it's not
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: it's not good for anybody. And at some point during
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: this time as well, she bumps into this woman Mary Malcolm,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: who's like a Taylor Taylor rest, Yeah, who thinks Elizabeth
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: is her sister, also named Elizabeth. And it's kind of
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: weird because it's more like wishful thinking on Mary's part,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: because she knew her sister like struggled, she'd been you know, committed,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of other stuff it up and a
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: terrible divorce, all this jazz, and so when she sees
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: long Legs, she's like, that's my sister. Between eighteen eighty
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: three and eighteen eighty eight, like these twomen would meet
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: kind of in secret, and Mary would give Elizabeth money
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: just I think it of guilt or some kind of
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: need for compassion and care. Like every Saturday, I think
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: at four o'clock she would give her two shillings, which
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: is you know, a lot back then. But Mary also
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: gave her like clothes and stuff. And at one point,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: really weird, Elizabeth had shown up with a baby and
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: she got married to the cafter it for a spell,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: saying it was like her son, and then after taking
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the boy back, she was like, oh no, the baby
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: had died when it was probably just borrowed from someone
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to help like beg because that was quite a common
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: thing though, you would borrow a baby to try and
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: get people to give you more money when you were
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: oute begging, you know, panhandling and whatnot. Now back to
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four, when John dies in the Stepney Sick
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Asylum right in Whitechapel. He this really affects Elizabeth. She
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: fucking spirals like a couple of weeks after the fact,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: she gets arrested on commercial road for soliciting and also
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: drunken disorderly behavior. And so she's arrested and she gets
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: sentenced with seven days hard labor. And after this point
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: there's no like official record of Elizabeth like prostituting herself. Again,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: clearly times are tough for Elizabeth. This is not going
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: well for her. But after John dies, things don't go
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: well for her. And then she meets Michael Kidney, and
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: so she meets him and they start living together. Michael Kidney,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: he's like a dock worker and he's also a volunteer
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: in the Army Reserve and he's he's younger than Liz,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: so goal Liz, good for you. But they start living together.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: They've got lodgings on Deventry Street and then Fashion Street.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Now this was not an easy relationship because the two
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: of them like drink, and the two of them liked
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: to fight. Michael Kidney more so like Elizabeth reported him
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: to the police for beating her and his brutality, and
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: like a lot of women who suffered domestic violence, she
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: retracted those claims because what else are you gonna do? Like,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: So they would fight, and he would do things, and
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: she would leave. And every time they left, over the
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: three years they were together, every time she left, she
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: would go down to Flower and Dane Street. She would
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: stay in the boarding house, and she would come back
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: every now and again, and he would say it's because
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: now she liked him more than she liked anybody else.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: And then Kidney Kidney, who was a drunk and a
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: domestic abuser, was also and you're going to be shocked
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: by this, I know, an adult her. So he would
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: cheat on her because he contracts syphilis. Now he couldn't
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: get it from her because at this point she's not contagious,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: because that's the stages of cephalis work. So she's not
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: contagious at this point, so he was clearly out stupid
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: someone else speaking of syphilis. So, syphilis is a degenerative
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: condition and it basically rots your brain, right, and I'm
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: not entirely surprised that between between eighteen eighty six and
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight she's swearing and cursing and using obscenities,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: like really consistently, like they're getting worse, right, just with abundance.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: And she's getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly. And
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth at this point is like in the territory like
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: phase of syphilis. So yeah, she's arrested four times in
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: three months, and thanks for just not getting better. And
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: she's got neurocephalus. And because she's a drinker as well,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: like the issues of the disease, the symptoms, you know,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: they're they're hidden by the fact that she drinks, so
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: like people just see the fact that she's drinking and
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't make the connection with the fact that her
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: brain is deteriorating. But yes, after leaving Michael Kidney a
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: final time, Elizabeth is staying at thirty two Flower in
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Dean Street. So Elizabeth she does some cleaning of the
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: workhouse on the twenty ninth of September eighteen eighty eight,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: and she earns a sixpence for it. And after that
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: she heads on to the Queen's Head Pub on Commercial Street.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: So she goes out for a bit, but she does
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: return back about half six that evening with Elizabeth Tanner,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: who's you know, in charge of Flower and Dean Street,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: and so she pays for her lodgings. So later on
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: that evening, Elizabeth gets ready to go out and she
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: asks Catherine Lane, another woman in the lodging house, to
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: look after a length of green velvet. You know, She's like,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: this is a good quality fabric. You know what she
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: was going to do with it, we don't know. She
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't look at one set of clothes. She's probably gonna
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: like sell the velvet probably, and she heads out the door.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: And this is where things get muddy. We have all
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: of these contradicting reports regarding where Elizabeth was and what
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: she was doing. Like apparently she's been seen arguing with
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: a man. At one point, she was walking alone, she
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: was wearing flowers, she wasn't wearing flowers. There were so
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: many reports of this woman was in this doorway, and
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: this woman was over there and they were clearly all
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stride. No. Now, the most credible of these supposed
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: side of Elizabeth Stride is by Israel Schwartz. He's Hungarian.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: It's quarter to one in the morning, and he's torturing
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: through you know, Commercial Street, and he's going on to
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Berner Street, I think it is. And he says, like
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: a man and woman kind of having an argument, a
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: disagreement of sorts, and Schwartz is walking up towards this
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: couple like this fight is starting to get physical. The
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: dude physically throws the women to the ground and the
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: woman screams thrice. Right ah, he said it wasn't like loud,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: but like she just screamed three times. And so this
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: dude crosses the street because of course he isn't going
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: to intervene in this violence against women, of course not.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: It's Victorian London. It's fine, apparently, But as he crosses
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: the street, there's a dude standing in the darkness smoking
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: a pipe, and this dude is freaking out. So he
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: just fucking legs and somebody shouts Lipsky after him, which
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: is just a way of being anti Semitic, but yes.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: So around one am on the thirtieth of September, this
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: dude who sells costume jewelry is going through Duckfield's yard
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: and there he says the body of Elizabeth Stride. So
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: at some point, probably early thirtieth of September eighteen eighty eight,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stride met her death the hands of a violent man.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Her throat was slipped. And I don't usually talk about
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: the death specifically of the victims, but m there's a
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: few things that don't quite add up here for me.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: So this is known as the night of the Double
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Event because there were two murders that happened, and they're
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: both attributed to Jack the Ripper. So the theory is
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Jack had killed Elizabeth. He was about to do his
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: stuff and he's interrupted. At this point, he just fucking
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: legs it and goes to murder and other woman because
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: he needs to satiate this thirst for blood. Obviously, However,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure that's the case. So the m
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: O is very, very different because the location doesn't add up.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: So this is a busy yard like behind a club.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of thoroughfare, there's lots of footfall,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: like you're more likely to be caught. So far, every
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: time you know Jack has had his victim, it's been
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: somewhere secluded. It's been very earliers of the morning. It
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: is deliberately so he has time to do what he
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: needs to do. To do this in a busy area
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: where he's likely to get caught. The way the escalation
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: process is going, this just doesn't add up. It seems
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: that it's more likely that Elizabeth, who was known to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: get aggressive and getting a fight, that someone, whether it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: was someone looking for money or someone just looking for
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: a thrill, slit her throat and left her there. Elizabeth
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Stride's death is the act of a violent man, an
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: emotional man, a man who cannot get his shit together
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: so much so that he decided to murder a clearly
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: ill woman. Elizabeth Stride, I am convinced is a ripper victim,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: but not a victim of Jack the Ripper. So obviously
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: all the propaganda and sensationalism goes out after her death,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: and she's recognized by the police officer that once courted her,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: and she's also recognized and identified, I should say, by
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: a member of the Swedish church that she'd registered at,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: and I think he was one of the only few
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: people at her funeral. So there's no money for anything,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: and she didn't really make connections. So she gets lowered
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: into a pauper's grave, and this fella stands out at
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: her inquest and talks about her and tries to give
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: her some autonomy, and he provides a prayer in Swedish,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: a Swedish prayer at her funeral, and so ends the
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: story of Elizabeth Stride. Now, if you liked my retelling
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: of this horrific story, feel free to rate and review
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: five stars Spotify, Apple Podcasts. If you're on Apple Podcasts,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: if you write something in the review, it just boosts
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: up the algorithm somehow. It just really helps me on
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: the business end of things. Now I feel so weird
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: having to be like really positive after just this horrific
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: tale of drudgery and shame and pain, Like it's oh,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: it's so exhausting. Oh I feel weird about it. But yeah,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: in the iTunes Apple podcast bit, anything you say just
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: just helps it, does You could say anything. You could
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: tell me your favorite holiday, you could tell me your
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: least favorite pie filling I don't know. Whatever works. It
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: doesn't really need to be a but me. Nobody reads
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: it anyway apart from me, who loves to hear your
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: compliments because I'm just that person who needs your constant validation.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding or am I I leave it so, yes,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I forget. You can follow me on the socials. I
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: have some Patreon stuff coming out at the end of
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: the week as well. I'm hooded what I pod on,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: like nearly everything about from Twitter where I'm hooded what
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: nopd Because there weren't enough characters in the username. I
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: could have shortened it down, but I did not do that.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: So recommendation time. Going to do recommendations, so we have reading.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: You know what, everybody should read at least one Horrible
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Histories book. That's your assignment. Go read a Horrible Histories book.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: They're funny and they're generally close to the truth. It's
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: always funnier the closer yard of the truth when it
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: comes to history. As what I'm saying for listening, I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: am going to recommend the song Labor by Paris Poloma.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: It fills me with a feminine rage, which I just
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: kind of need. Ir ocasions and it just it's so
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: powerful and it makes me think of so many events.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: It's just astounding and for watching you know what, I
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: was watching, actually, and I'm gonna recommend. I don't know
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: if I'm watching because it's good or I'm watching it
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: because I'm just invested in Beth Dunton as a character,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: because I generally like unlikable women in TV shows. So Yellowstone,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: I've been watching Yellowstone and I think I have a
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: thing for Rip Wheeler. I wasn't expecting it, but maybe
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: I like a reformed man or just a broken man.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Either way, I'm feeling it. So that is everything this week,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: and I shall bid you farewell adios or revoir. Oh
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: why do you say my friends a bye bye?